#indiewebcamp 2014-07-10

2014-07-10 UTC
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aaronpk 1) tantek writes a post on his site that says "hey <a href="http://aaronparecki.com">aaronpk</a>, do you have a minute to talk? https://talky.io/ttk"
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aaronpk 2) tantek's server sends a webmention to mine for that link
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JonathanNeal Most of the magic is working, but the certificate isn’t perfect. While the certificate is added to Mac’s keychain, and you can trust the certificate yourself, it is not trusted by default. I bet a simple configuration change could fix this, if any of you are up to finding the typo/bug.
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aaronpk 3) my server notifies my phone via a push notification
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aaronpk 4) I see the message, click the talky URL, and we're in a video call
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JonathanNeal I believe the last bug lives @ https://gist.github.com/jonathantneal/774e4b0b3d4d739cbc53#configuring-ssl
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aaronpk and of course this could all happen with private posts so the talky URL is only visible to the two of us
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tantek aaronpk - great summary of indieweb based txt-notification plus webrtc call user flow!
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GWG Should there be a markup for that?
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GWG There is one for an RSVP
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tantek please write that up ASAP on /call
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GWG Why not a chat invitation?
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tantek GWG rather, there is /invitation for *event* invitations
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aaronpk I suppose there could be markup for it, but as demonstrated by that use case it doesn't actually require special markup to work
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bear I just filed an issue with the talky.io team asking if the lock-room feature can be enabled using only a single URL call (to allow a web form button to start one)
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bear then aaronpk's step 4 above would have a URL to click that includes the locked room key
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aaronpk bear: how about if I visit a room the first time like https://talky.io/example?key=1234 then if the room doesn't yet exist it gets created with the key provided
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aaronpk although at that point I might as well just use the existing system with a UUID as the room name
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aaronpk bear: feature request: if I visit a talky.io URL on my iOS device, provide a link that allows me to launch the iOS app to that room, since it doesn't work in iOS browsers right now
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bear aaronpk - yea, I don't know if that works or not - part of why I filed the issue
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bear aaronpk i'll file that issue now
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aaronpk cool!
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bear issue filed
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donpdonp A Micropub is a very small, one room public house. - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micropub
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donpdonp ah http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub :)
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aaronpk what is micropub?
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Loqi Micropub is an API spec that is used to create h-entry or h-event posts on one's own domain using third-party clients http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub
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GWG aaronpk: How would software interpret a communications request if no additional markup is added? The human could, but...
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aaronpk why does the software need to?
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bear we already have added code to takly.io's web site to add a banner when being viewed by iOS browsers
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aaronpk bear: oh ok great!
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GWG aaronpk: TO take action on it?
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bear so making it add an extra button or link for "hey, launch the app" should not be a problem
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GWG I'm not sure if I am right on that
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bret talky.io/indieweb
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aaronpk GWG: I guess what's interesting to me is that we can do this right now without any additional markup.
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GWG aaronpk: I see using Webmentions for communications requests...
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JonathanNeal rascul, aaronpk, bad time or looking?
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GWG aaronpk: Can you think of use cases where you would want it to enhance the offering?
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aaronpk maybe? but I'd be curious to test this out first and see how it works
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tantek aaronpk please at least braindump that indieweb-to-indieweb call use-case userflow here http://indiewebcamp.com/call
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aaronpk will do in a few
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tantek see also http://indiewebcamp.com/phone
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tantek (though I think a specific "call" page would be more precisely scoped to what we're talking about )
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tantek s/"call"//call
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Loqi tantek meant to say: (though I think a specific  page would be more precisely scoped to what we're talking about )
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bear hmm, the talky devs say that the banner that is shown only to iOS browsers has a "open in" link
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tantek oops oh well
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GWG tantek: In your opinion, is a request for communications an invitation as defined in the wiki though
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GWG I'm looking at invitation and event...
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GWG Seems not quite applicable to something you want to happen immediately.
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tantek GWG no the closest is the current documentation in /phone#Brainstorming
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tantek yeah I'd like to see the call-related stuff on /phone moved to /call
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tantek and /phone become more of a "collection of features" page that lists various degrees of expectations of what features are in a "phone"
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tantek including /call
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tantek and maybe /contacts
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tantek etc.
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aaronpk i like where this is going
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tantek (this is how you actually design an indie /phone )
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tantek (where we're going, we don't need phone numbers)
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bret side note, sip server hosting is enterprizy and a pain
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GWG tantek: Then you also need to define if call is inherently audio, video, or text
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tantek GWG - popular usage assumes call == audio
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GWG tantek: Yes, but online, could be a 'video' call.
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tantek since there is no video call "standard" (webrtc is just plumbing for now) - people call video calls by brand names, like "FaceTime" or "Skype" to most people means "video"
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bear the signaling should be different than the actual connection
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tantek GWG - "could be" doesn't matter when you're doing design in UI like that - majority / dominant cultural assumption wins
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bear "I want to make contact" … "I can be reached by phone, skype, talky, sms"
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GWG I'm just saying using a unified methodology with an optional medium seems to be simple.
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GWG But...if I want to talk to bear on Skype...I could mean video, audio, or text
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GWG It has all three
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GWG Then bear goes and scrambles to find a web cam when I want tohave an audio chat
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bear I worry about unified anything - it's a trigger word for me that i'm either over or under thinking something
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KartikPrabhu GWG: does anyone say "lets have a text chat on Skype" or do they just say "lets Skype" ?
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bear well, in my case it would be to scramble to find a shirt :)
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tantek GWG - there are separate urls for skype video vs. IM
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tantek see my URLs for People Focused Communication post
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tantek already documented
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tantek bear++ for noting worry about unified anything meaning over/under thinking
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Loqi bear has 11 karma
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bear it's one of the few positive things the UML wars of the 90's taught me :)
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bret hey emmak :)
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emmak hi bret :)
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GWG Okay, so I will accept the premise the form of communication is implied by the URL
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GWG I withdraw that aspect of my comment.
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GWG But I still think there is a variant of the invitation needed
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GWG The URL for the chat service being the 'event'.
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tantek GWG - you're going to have to document your use-case in more detail
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tantek like aaronpk did above with his step-by-step how to make an indie-call
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tantek "needed" is a pretty strong assertion
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KartikPrabhu GWG: afais a call invitation can be an h-event with a u-url u-uid as the URL for the call
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KartikPrabhu and p-attendee can be a list of people who have been invited
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bret would that mean all my calls have permalinks?
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KartikPrabhu bret: the URL i was talking about was for example a talky URL
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KartikPrabhu and at least you call invitation can have URLs
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GWG But couldn't the h-event be the talky session?
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GWG Why is the h-event necessary?
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KartikPrabhu GWG: yes the h-event could be the talk session
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KartikPrabhu mf2 markup is not "necessary" by any means
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KartikPrabhu my point was we might not need any "new stuff" to make this call thingy work
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KartikPrabhu inventing new protocols should be a last-resort
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GWG Is this a protocol or a use case?
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KartikPrabhu this use-case can be handled by existing methods
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I'd avoid jumping to format/protocol solutions until there's a documentation (on the wiki) of the use-case and user-flow supposedly being discussed.
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tantek wouldn't want the leap to format/protocol to drive the interaction model
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yes... that is what I meant :)
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tantek which would be vice-versa from what's desired
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tantek which is to have the interaction drive the formats/protocols necessary to make it happen, and nothing more
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tantek GWG - a use-case describes what steps humans take when they're using a feature to interact with each other or their content. a protocol describes what data/code does both on publishing/sending and consuming/receiving ends.
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tantek use-case and protocol are very different
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aaronparecki.com created /call (+587) "copy-paste example call flow from irc logs" (view diff)
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GWG tantek: I'm agreeing with you. KartikPrabhu was talking about inventing a protocol. I was saying this seems to be an implementation of the existing format.
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@WickedCultured Yes! #ownyourdata http://www.wired.com/2014/07/citizenme/?mbid=social_fb (twitter.com/_/status/487041192069459968)
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KartikPrabhu uh boy ^
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mko I worked on a concept for an app like that. Personal data marketplace.
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mko About 6 years ago. lol
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: is it posisble for bridgy to return the "like" URL on fav a tweet through bridgy instead of original post URL?
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: seems like favs don't have a tweet-id
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@toddmahoney http://dangillmor.com/2014/04/25/indie-web-important/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/487056549148258305)
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@kevinmarks "@meaganewaller: lol at getting so involved in redesigning my personal blog I accidentally stayed at the office until 9pm." #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/487060663747887104)
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: hmm i don't quite follow
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snarfed can you show me an example
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snarfed ?
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KartikPrabhu a minute
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snarfed np
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: strange that Twitter does the same mistake with favs that G+ does with comments
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snarfed eh, i don't know that i'd call it a mistake
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snarfed it's generally agreed that g+ comments should have permalinks, but not at all that likes should have them
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KartikPrabhu yeah I guess "non-indiewebiness" :P
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snarfed yeah, we're definitely in the minority
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snarfed permalinks for discrete pieces of content like comments make sense, but likes aren't quite that
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snarfed meh
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KartikPrabhu yeah <shrug>
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@kotakmakan @zakiakhmad monggo cek di http://indiewebcamp.com/ mas :D hehehe (twitter.com/_/status/487071324972412929)
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@kevinmarks "@jason_pontin: Words cannot express how much I love these old-school @MIT "home pages": http://t.co/UM0R2RrtuJ" #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/487072245555003392)
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bear indieauth/micropub question - with handling of webmentions I normally don't try to validate certs but I'm thinking for micropub auth I should only allow an authorization endpoint if the given domain has a valid cert. thoughts?
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bear makes it a variable defaulting to false for now
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bear hmm, that may not be possible as even aaronpk's own site fails https cert validation
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JonathanNeal Finally. https://gist.github.com/jonathantneal/774e4b0b3d4d739cbc53
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JonathanNeal Trusted SSL certificates for Mac is complete.
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: how's the indiewebification coming along?
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JonathanNeal Well, I can now get back to it. I was obsessed with writing repeatable instructions on how to create trusted, local domains.
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KartikPrabhu ha! so many disctractions :P
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JonathanNeal Yes, but I finished this one, and now we can setup SSL for local development with wildcards!
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KartikPrabhu nice
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KartikPrabhu Just added new marginalia to old post! https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/hollow-icons now to get marginalia working across whole site :)
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: might be of interest to you since SVG^
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KartikPrabhu also bear: thanks for the hollow icon inspiration ^^ :)
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bear \o/
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KartikPrabhu SVG++
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Loqi SVG has 2 karma
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KartikPrabhu I want SVG more karma!
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bear SVG++
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Loqi SVG has 3 karma
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KartikPrabhu damnitt Loqi!
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: fragmentions.js minified does not seem to work with async... suggestions?
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JonathanNeal Wonder if it’s out of sync.
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KartikPrabhu as in?
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KartikPrabhu min is not updated with the async code?
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: possibly. I recompiled fragmention.js and marginalia.js using closure compiler and it works
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aaronpk bear: wha? My site should have a valid cert.
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aaronpk It's a startssl cert I believe
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: err closure seems to have messed up some of my code! any good minifiers you recommend?
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bear aaronpk - this is the error that the python requests library gives me: requests.exceptions.SSLError: hostname 'aaronparecki.com' doesn't match either of '*.pin13.net', 'pin13.net'
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aaronpk Sounds like your client is not doing SNI
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KartikPrabhu bear: py2 is not good at SNI!
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KartikPrabhu I don't know of a good worksround either
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bear it's code not a browser
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bear notes that this is why he loathes SNI
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KartikPrabhu bear: py3 requests fixed it iirc
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aaronpk Yeah the https client you're using doesn't know how to do SNI
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aaronpk Doesn't matter if it's a browser
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk bear: I can confirm the SNI issue in python2
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bear ah - I see my problem
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bear default python libs don't do modern TLS
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aaronpk I feel like python libs and old versions of IE are the only things that don't support SNI now
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bear I have to install pyOpenSSL
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bear tests
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bear apologizes for a bad bug report
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KartikPrabhu bear: would appreciate if you could document getting pyOpenSSL to work... I had quite some trouble with it
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bear KartikPrabhu - to solve this issue the following libs have to be present when requests loads: pyOpenSSL, ndg-httpsclient and pyasn1
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bear I'll add some notes to the README
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KartikPrabhu yeah had trouble installing those
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bear what version of python? i'm using 2.7.6
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KartikPrabhu bear: 2.7 afaik
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KartikPrabhu latest
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bear it just worked with me doing a pip install of those
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KartikPrabhu forgets what trouble exactly
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bear let me post the new requirements.txt so you can see it
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KartikPrabhu must try again
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bear ok, pushed the requirements.txt to my repo
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: I like uglify.
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bear https://github.com/bear/ronkyuu/commit/76b850f7d73dc7482c6326557b4152c8c2c8eb76
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JonathanNeal You can try it out @ jscompress.com
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: something weird going on with the JS stuff. I put both fragmention.js and marginalis.js in one file (un-minified) and the result just messes up both: see: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia##The+visual+display
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KartikPrabhu does not do the fragmention thing and some marginalia are in the wrong place
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JonathanNeal Incidentally, your referencing photos from non-HTTPS. Not sure what the internet gods think of that.
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bear flags that for mixed-content warning
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SamB JonathanNeal: they don't like it when you do it on an HTTPS page
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JonathanNeal Everything loaded fine for me on the url you just posted.
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SamB iirc even IE doesn't like when you do that ...
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: including highlighting the correct <p> ?
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KartikPrabhu and the first <p> should not have any marginalia on it
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SamB and that was some OLD version of IE
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: yes that is a problem with avatars that I don't really host. itching to fix that bit
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/chloeweil/483748813270560769/37430527 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014#East_Photos (webmention)
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bear aaronpk - is this a none issue with indieauth calls: if you pass garbage data for client_id it just spins trying to verify everything
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aaronpk ooh hm that should be handled better probably
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aaronpk Can you open an issue with an example?
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bear yep -
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KartikPrabhu was ready to declare marginalia active on all posts, but ran into this JS quirkiness
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aaronpk Thanks. That sounds weird
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aaronpk I'm in bed so I will look at it later 😀
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bear no worries - issue filed
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KartikPrabhu good article, might be of interest here: http://www.vanseodesign.com/web-design/developers-learn-design/
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cweiske did someone already plan a webmention+mf2-enabled comment hosting silo for websites that want to outsource their comment form and still be indie-compatible?
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: started working on the auth again.
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cweiske JonathanNeal, did you try to clone the public http url phorkie shows?
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JonathanNeal cweiske: I was able to fork last night. What would you like me to do?
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cweiske I mean a git clone on cli with the URL phorkie shows
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: cool! heading to bed now (early morning physics meeting) ... might bother you about fragmention.js weirdness tomorrow though
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JonathanNeal Great. I’m starting to feel better so it would be nice to dive into that.
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@enteractie @vasilis Ik kwam Voto tegen. Dat ziet er mooi uit! Is het ook ergens beschikbaar om zelf eens uit te proberen? #dtv #voto #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/487139124139528192)
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@djmdw @t: Inspiring week+ #IndieWebCamp PDX/NYC/Berlin & #IndieTech Brighton! What will you create & ship on your own site next? (ttk.me t4X01) (twitter.com/_/status/487141907017900032)
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@OnTheWebz RT @t: Awesome work @adactio with shipping #indieweb photo notes including POSSE of images to Twitter! http://adactio.com/notes/6978 (ttk.me t4X02) (twitter.com/_/status/487149104380661760)
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bear \o/ successfully do a roundtrip indieauth login, auth and token validate with python flask
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bear this was the precursor to me getting micropub support for my static site
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cweiske can I test somewhere?
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KartikPrabhu bear: that took 2 weeks :P
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bear.im edited /ronkyuu (+61) "add note about some new IndieAuth features" (view diff)
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bear KartikPrabhu - well, two weeks real time but I only worked on it some during IWC and tonight :)
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cweiske.de edited /ronkyuu (+29) "/* See Also */" (view diff)
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bear cweiske - I need to remove the hardcoded urls and make them config driven - but yes
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KartikPrabhu so you say... ;) errr I mean good work!
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bear LOL
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bear cweiske - i'll post my badly hacked code as a gist
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cweiske i'd only try if I can login with my indieauth server
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KartikPrabhu bear: what's the Japanese name for your micropub code?
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bear KartikPrabhu - this is going to be part of Dainin
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bear cweiske - that's the hacky part - right now it only works with Indieauth
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KartikPrabhu ooo nice! I like that you have a naming-theme going on
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bear :)
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cweiske so you don't do authorization_endpoint discovery yet
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bear it does - that is part of the changes I just made to Ronkyuu
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bear to add two helpers for that - one to discover and one to make an auth token validate call
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bear let me post the code so you can see
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bear I would love feedback on how i'm doing with Flask
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bear.im edited /ronkyuu (+58) "/* Working On */" (view diff)
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bear cweiske - https://gist.github.com/bear/4d641794da22e36a8f9e
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bear the index.html file needs to be in a templates/ dir relative to where the python file is placed
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cweiske gist does not support subdirs?
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bear it may - never thought of trying that
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cweiske I installed flask and tried to start listener.py but that fails because ronkyuu is missing.
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cweiske pip insatll ronkyuu fails
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cweiske ImportError: No module named bs4
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cweiske no idea how this stuff works
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bear yea, it's a github only thing right now - one sec
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bear install ronkyuu from https://github.com/bear/ronkyuu
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bear it will load all the required bits
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cweiske how? git clone and then setup.py?
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bear this is still a big work-in-progress - need to start cleaning up the non-bear user experience
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bear yes
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cweiske ImportError: No module named bs4
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cweiske installing via pip
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cweiske No distributions at all found for bs4
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bear beautifulsoup4==4.3.2
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bear i'll update the requirements file now
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bear oh wait - that is in requirements.txt
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bear python setup.py install should have run thru the requirements.txt file and installed all dependencies
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cweiske already running setup.py gave me the error
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cweiske ImportError: No module named mf2py.parser
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cweiske after setup that is
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cweiske or is that a dep of listener only?
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bear no - your finding all the dev-working-local glitches
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bear updates requirements.txt
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bear mf2py==0.1.1
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cweiske ImportError: No module named flask.ext.wtf
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cweiske although I did install flask
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bear Flask-WTF==0.9.5
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cweiske login form only reappears after submitting it filled with http://cweiske.de/
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bear what is missing for this is adding a url route to allow the auth token to be stored and recovered for agents to use
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cweiske and it fails badly if I input the domain only as opposed to my url
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cweiske cweiske.de is invalid while http://cweiske.de/ is valid
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cweiske although the field is called "domain" :)
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bear ah - yea
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bear makes a bug note
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cweiske but I have no idea if it does anything when I click sign in with my url
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bear it should call out to your auth endpoint and let you validate
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cweiske it does nothing
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cweiske form just reappears
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cweiske try http://cweiske.de/ with you
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bear k
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cweiske you should be redirected to my openid login
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cweiske id.cweiske.de
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bear unsupported response_type: code
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bear that's what I get
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Loqi it is probable
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bear and if I remove that param from the auth request I now get: OpenID error: Unable to discover OP Endpoint URL
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cweiske ok. I don't support authorization, only authentication
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cweiske login that is
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bear ok
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bear I have more work to do then to split these out then
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cweiske if you're longing for micropub, then authorization makes sense
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bear yes, micropub is the first itch to scratch for this :)
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bear but my goal is to make ronkyuu support all types of indieauth
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cweiske authentication is made via response_type=id, see http://indiewebcamp.com/login-brainstorming#Request
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bear changing response_type to id now gives: OpenID error: Unable to discover OP Endpoint URL
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bear but this is probably from me doing localhost urls
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cweiske with my domain?
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cweiske bear, my auth enpoint is a openid proxy
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cweiske it provides an indieauth api, but uses openid in the background
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cweiske so I can auth with my openid server at indieauth sites
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bear this is the request i'm making: http://indieauth.id.cweiske.de/?me=https%3A%2F%2Fbear.im&scope=post&redirect_uri=http%3A%2F%2Flocalhost%3A9999%2Fsuccess&response_type=id&client_id=https%3A%2F%2Fbear.im
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cweiske yes, and you have no openid link in your hompage's html head
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bear ohhh - right
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cweiske while I have <link rel="openid.server" href="http://id.cweiske.de/" />
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bear this is why I stick to ops
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cweiske <link rel="openid.delegate" href="http://cweiske.de/" />
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cweiske ops?
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bear Server Operations
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bear i.e. not front-end web development ;)
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bear ah - got it working for your site
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bear I had to not hardcode the me= value
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bear I updated the gist - but it's line 102: urllib.urlencode({ 'me': form.domain.data,
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cweiske hm. still nothing.
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cweiske no POST
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cweiske wireshark also does not show anything except the GET to cweiske.de
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bear for me it brought up your SimpleID loging
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cweiske err
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cweiske it tries https
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cweiske line 87 has bear.im hardcoded
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cweiske same for 122
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bear yea, fixing that by having it read from config file - one sec
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cweiske ok, I'll stop now
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bear hehe - no worries - i'm loving the feedback
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bear ok, added a config file and updated the code to load it - it now gets client_id and baseurl from config
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bear i'm heading to bed -thanks for testing it and apologies for it being so rough to use
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bear Loqi tell KartikPrabhu i've pushed a new version of ronkyuu to pypi - please submit a PR if you have any local changes so I can push that version if needed
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@artwisanggeni #python ronkyuu 0.2.6: Webmention Manager https://pypi.python.org/pypi/ronkyuu/0.2.6 (twitter.com/_/status/487174318703394816)
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@nicolas2fr #IndieWebCamp Paris qui est UP pour nous aider ? #Barcamp (twitter.com/_/status/487204759070601217)
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christopheducamp.com edited /Events (+966) "/* Upcoming */ hack day in Mozilla Paris on decentralization (via @nitot)" (view diff)
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@xtof_fr @nicolas2fr ;) meetup "décentralisation de l'internet" chez @MozillaParis (hosted by @nitot.) Page wiki mendiée sur http://indiewebcamp.com/Events#Upcoming (twitter.com/_/status/487206229442580480)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/xtof_fr/487206229442580480/487208598700064769 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Events#Upcoming (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/xtof_fr/487206229442580480/11759202 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Events#Upcoming (webmention)
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@jackmcdade @ryandownie not if you want to own your own content. https://indiewebcamp.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/487230115244699648)
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@hmans I'm strongly considering making #pants Webmention compatible, but I'd have to deviate from the spec slightly (on the recipient's side.) (twitter.com/_/status/487239572943015936)
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gRegor` The aforementioned "pants" https://github.com/hmans/pants ^
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gRegor` He does appear to be selfkoolaiding
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petermolnar !tell GWG https://github.com/petermolnar/posse - it does nothing apart from building syndication meta boxes & saving the values, but it took me a while to come up with an approach that's flexible enough yet still relatively usable
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petermolnar I'd be glad to hear you opinion on it before proceeding with the actual syndication work
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@hmans @aleksm_ /ping will still work fine - just need to add Webmention endpoint discovery. (twitter.com/_/status/487242971533045761)
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GWG petermolnar: Will have a look
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Loqi GWG: petermolnar left you a message 2 minutes ago: https://github.com/petermolnar/posse - it does nothing apart from building syndication meta boxes & saving the values, but it took me a while to come up with an approach that's flexible enough yet still relatively usable
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johneckman.com edited /2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (+200) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
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petermolnar ah, for a moment a thought Cambridge, UK, that would have been lovely :D
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johneckman.com edited /2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (+22) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
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petermolnar thank you GWG
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standblog.org blog edited /Events (+0) "/* Upcoming */" (view diff)
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@_Ereputation RT @nicolas2fr: #IndieWebCamp Paris qui est UP pour nous aider ? #Barcamp (twitter.com/_/status/487255380746309632)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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tantek.com created /nicknames-cache (+2125) "stub from discussion, analysis, current real world examples" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /nicknames_cache (+29) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /nickname_cache (+29) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /nickname-cache (+29) "r" (view diff)
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aaronpk any wordpress people getting close to wanting to make a micropub endpoint to create posts within wordpress?
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tantek.com edited /reply-context (+79) "/* icon */ make use of a nicknames-cache for indieweb post icons" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /p3k (+40) "/* Local Nicknames */ see also" (view diff)
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aaronpk i'm thinking it shouldn't be too hard to translate a micropub request into a call to http://codex.wordpress.org/Function_Reference/wp_insert_post
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donpdonp ive updated the output from my connected-AP logger at http://donp.org/as/
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+572) "/* improve reply-context support */ icons specifically, break into smaller subtasks" (view diff)
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JonathanNeal Hello
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tantek.com edited /nicknames-cache (+240) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ link to specific kylewm post and POSSE copy demonstrating use of his nicknames-cache" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /nicknames-cache (+84) "/* Easier Person References When Writing */ link to expanded POSSE to Twitter explanation" (view diff)
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aaronpk thinking about doing a mini indieweb hack night during http://pdx.devweek.org
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aaronpk hopefully with some language diversity so it's not just a javascript week ;)
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donpdonp aaronpk: thx for the devweek tip
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JonathanNeal If any of you develop locally and have used SSL, I would love to shrink these instructions or make them easier to read. https://gist.github.com/jonathantneal/774e4b0b3d4d739cbc53
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donpdonp JonathanNeal: that a nice doc, very thorough.
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donpdonp if the goal is a new vhost with ssl of name 'localhost', it seems that entire procedure could be automated down into a shellscript
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@benwerd How @mapkyca is creating a distributed social network out of #indieweb tech: http://www.marcus-povey.co.uk/2014/07/10/summary-federated-friending-and-signon-in-a-distributed-social-network/ (twitter.com/_/status/487267393656201216)
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KartikPrabhu boop
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KartikPrabhu bear: will look for ronkyuu changes
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aaronpk ok how about changing the july 30th homebrew website club into more of a hack night for dev week?
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JonathanNeal @donpdonp if there was a way to easily replace lines from bash.
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donpdonp JonathanNeal: yeah, 'sed' is the usual way but such automated config munging is risky.
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donpdonp creation of the self signed cert, and the vhost config file could be done w/o subsitutions
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JonathanNeal donpdonp: by appending?
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donpdonp i just mean that the vhost for localhost, is a new seperate apache config file
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donpdonp so no risk of mangling existing config files with just that step
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@JohnRidgeway RT @camworld: IndieWeb and Respect Network: Two roads to decentralizing the network http://www.wordyard.com/2014/07/03/indieweb-and-respect-network-two-roads-to-decentralizing-the-network/ (twitter.com/_/status/487272902921035777)
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JonathanNeal Oh.
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JonathanNeal Well, most of the steps require modification of existing files.
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mayuresh hello ... :-)
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mayuresh is kylewm around?
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mayuresh i did most of the rel=me things to my web page. :-)
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mayuresh and yeah, i could sign in to indiewebcamp wiki.
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mayuresh thanks for the help kylewm.
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mayuresh and the cool stuff on the indiewebcamp wiki
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mayuresh hi kevinmarks
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@TapestryMaker RT @mapkyca: Building a distributed social network http://www.marcus-povey.co.uk/?p=3229 | great use of #indieweb technology (via @benwerd) (twitter.com/_/status/487292429385469952)
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@wainstead No Facebook, no iPhone, no problem: how I declared my digital independence | Dan Gillmor http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/04/no-facebook-no-iphone-digital-independence?CMP=twt_gu via @guardian #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/487301442563092480)
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@jdp23 RT @mapkyca: Building a distributed social network http://www.marcus-povey.co.uk/?p=3229 | great use of #indieweb technology (via @benwerd @tapestrymaker) (twitter.com/_/status/487307905826164736)
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kylewm !tell mayuresh you're very welcome, and all credit for indiewebify.me goes to barnabywalters and bnvk!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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bear mayuresh++
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Loqi mayuresh has 1 karma
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Loqi mayuresh: kylewm left you a message 11 minutes ago: you're very welcome, and all credit for indiewebify.me goes to barnabywalters and bnvk!
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mayuresh :-)
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mayuresh bear: thanks for the ++ :-)
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mayuresh bear
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mayuresh do take a look at kathe.in
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aaronparecki.com edited /Special:Log/upload () "uploaded a new version of "[[File:indiewebcamp-2014-sponsorship-prospectus.pdf]]": added sponsorship contract on last page" (view diff)
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bret aaronpk++ for the dev week hack night
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Loqi aaronpk has 520 karma
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aaronpk !tell tantek I want to run some sort of indieweb event during http://pdx.devweek.org and am considering co-opting Homebrew Website Club to be more of a hack night or something. any thoughts on how that might work in conjunction with SF? or just not do joint that day?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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aaronpk archivebot is now crawling its way through the IRC archives
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bear ouch
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aaronpk poor thing
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aaronpk oh great now it's crawling the backup files
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aaronpk lol recursive backup?
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bear I would say "time for an updated robots.txt" but most of them ignore it :/
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aaronpk it's been pulling 3-5 requests/second since yesterday
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aaronpk yeah robots.txt already tells bots to ignore wiki/* so that they don't recurse into the meta wiki pages and page history and such
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aaronpk but archivebot ignores it :)
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bear archivebot is pretty greedy - but for reasons I can fully grok
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bear it wants *everything* so it can be solid copy
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aaronpk yeah. i just feel bad about giving it redundant content
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aaronpk like every page links to a login URL that is unique to that page because it contains a parameter like returnTo=/events
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aaronpk so they end up with N copies of the login page
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bear I wonder if they de-dup in any way
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kylewm aaronpk: how do you monitor that sort of thing?
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aaronpk i'm just watching the access logs
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kylewm worried you might say that
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bear laughs
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aaronpk tail indiewebcamp.access.log | grep ArchiveBot
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aaronpk i'd publish the access logs, but then that would really throw ArchiveBot for a loop
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bear :)
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donpdonp there's probably a web page with n digits of pi and a link to the page with n+1 digits
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aaronpk if there isn't yet there definitely should be
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kylewm interesting that ArchiveBot ignores robots.txt
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kylewm I have an old domain that is owned by someone else now who has a robots.txt file
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kylewm and archive.org won't show any history for it as
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kylewm a result
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: OK, go to [secret URL on my domain] and click the link @lonnierae: types something [text arrives] (twitter.com/_/status/487333789853831168)
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aaronpk i don't think this bot is from archive.org
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aaronpk http://www.archiveteam.org/
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hmans \o/
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kylewm oh I didn't know!
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kylewm hi hmans, saw your tweet this morning about maybe supporting webmention, thumbs up!
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hmans \o/ \o/
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gRegor` Welcome, hmans
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hmans I built something and realized it's pretty much 100% in line with webmention, so I'm going to switch the whole thing to it very soon.
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gRegor` Cool!
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gRegor` Will it work with outside sites not running pants?
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gRegor` Nice software name, btw. Makes for some fun sentences, haha
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hmans Yeah, my implementation of Webmention should be 100% happy to talk to non-Pants sites and vice versa.
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hmans :D
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aaronpk You should name components things like Sweat Pants, Under Pants, etc
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gRegor` Haha
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Loqi definitely
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hmans I'm building a command line client called Panties... which is horrible.
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gRegor` The minimalist theme for it: No Pants
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aaronpk gRegor`++
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hmans I should stop naming my projects after the first thing that comes to mind.
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hmans :P~
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Loqi I agree
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gRegor` How many people are running pants?
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hmans I think there are 2 or 3 instances out there not run by myself right now. Hey, I wrote the first commit 2 weeks ago :P~
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SamB not too many people are pants
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SamB nevermind *running* pants
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gRegor` Oh wow, I didn't realize it was that young. But hey, that's pretty good for two weeks old!
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hmans I'm fast. And on vacation. :P~
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hmans I haven't been pushing people to install their own instances (the README is just a big warning right now), and I've been manually adding friends to my own instance. It's just too early for anything else.
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hmans But I enjoy looking at my growing friends list: https://www.dropbox.com/s/49hdxs51aekg6qe/Screen%20Shot%202014-07-10%20at%2022.45.01.png
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hmans I haven't added any rel=me support yet, though :/ It's coming.
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gRegor` Nice. You should log in to the wiki and add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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hmans Will do
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kylewm 2 weeks and already have users begging you not to change the specs, pretty good :)
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hmans Well, that guy is a prankster. :P
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kylewm I'm curious why "The part of the Wm spec I'd have to deviate from is where the recipient checks if their link is inside the referred document." ?
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hmans Yeah, turns out I don't actually have to -- it's the part where the recipient checks if the link to their article is actually present on the URL provided by the sender. (I understand why it needs to happen, but Pants does a tiny little thing on top of that -- not a big deal.)
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hmans Background is the following:
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dariusdunlap Getting new internet service at our new home is a tiring process…
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hmans Friendships on Pants don't need to be mutual
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hmans so when you add someone to your friends list, your Pants will ping your friends when you post something new. Of course, your friends may not have YOU in THEIR friends list, so they pretty much decide on the fly on how to react to your ping.
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snarfed hmans: understood. skipping the link check is generally fine. it's common practice for us here, but definitely not required
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hmans (In the current implementation, the referenced URL will always be fetched, but then the recipient will check the URL against its own friends list)
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aaronpk hmans: you might want to look at PuSH for that... http://indiewebcamp.com/PubSubHubbub
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snarfed the spec does say it's a SHOULD, but that may be a bit too aggressive
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aaronpk that ping you mention is more like the ping of the PuSH spec
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hmans In addition to that, stuff gets pushed without including a reference to another posts, so yes @aaronpk, I should look at that, too
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hmans I only have very shallow understanding about PuSH, but it was my impression that it focused on hub-style structures? Apologies if I'm wrong, I'll need to do more reading.
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aaronpk the original PuSH spec (which was tied to XML) did emphasize the hub structure
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aaronpk but with 0.4 allowing arbitrary content to be pushed around (html or json, etc) it's a bit more useful now
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hmans I'll give it a thorough read soon.
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aaronpk I'm not quite sure how the hub architecture would map onto yours, but I suspect it's compatible
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hmans I need to implement rel=me next :)~
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hmans Q regarding rel=me/indieauth: what if I have multiple web identities (domains, like hmans.de and hmans.io), but I can only link to one of them from one of the indieauth-supported networks (eg. Twitter)?
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hmans I don't mind using just one of my domain as "my identity" when logging in to eg. the indieweb wiki, but I'm planning to allow pants users to log in on any other pants site (using their own site), so indieauth/rel=me looks pretty much exactly what I should be looking at.
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bret interesting: http://breach.cc/
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hmans I'm off to bed. (Hamburg, Germany)
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hmans ttyl
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bret night!
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KartikPrabhu why this sudden obsession for building everything in JS?
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aaronpk I don't know if I would call it sudden. Unless you're thinking in very large timescales.
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KartikPrabhu oh yeah possibly...
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KartikPrabhu just thinks a whole browser in JS is somehow overkill/overuse of JS
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mko Realistically, a lot of it is spawning out of the advancements in Node.js
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KartikPrabhu isn't Node a JS framework?
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mko When a new feature of Node.js enables something that wasn't previously possible, the Node.js and JS communities as a whole are so large and wanting *more* out of their skillsets that *someone* will build something with the new feature that already exists in other languages just because they can.
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SamB KartikPrabhu: Mozilla had large parts written in JS even back in the late 90s, didn't it?
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mko Not really. Node.js describes itself as a platform for a reason. It's an entirely new model of programming logic within JavaScript (not that Node.js is that new of a concept from a programming language theory standpoint, just that it's new in JavaScript).
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SamB mko: what sort of model is it?
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SamB say, what non-JS frameworks does it resemble
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gRegor` "why this sudden obsession for building everything in JS?" asked the marginalia.js guy. ;)
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SamB gRegor`: that's different
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gRegor` (But yes, JS is being . . . overused)
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mko The model is that it's a non-blocking model of data input/output that relies on an endless event loop.
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gRegor` I know. I'm just teasing him.
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SamB gRegor`: when you want to run code in the browser, you really don't have many choices
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SamB ;-P
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gRegor` Definitely a difference between Angular and all these other JS-hotness frameworks and marginalia.
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SamB mko: hmm, so the new to JS part is ... not blocking?
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aaronpk someone should write a Javascript interpreter for PHP so we can write PHP code and run it in the browser
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aaronpk what could possibly go wrong
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SamB or that you get to interact with the system
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SamB rather than being heavily sandboxed
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aaronpk oh wait that's cassis.js
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SamB someone actually DID THAT?
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aaronpk well not exacrtly
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SamB why the hell would somebody smart enough to do that be dumb enough to think it was a good idea?
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mko tantek
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mko http://tantek.pbworks.com/w/page/19402872/CassisProject
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aaronpk it's a little more complicated than that
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SamB PHP seriously needs to DIAF
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aaronpk no, people who write bad PHP should learn to write better code
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mko PHP is a wonderful language.
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SamB it might have started out with a good idea, but sounds like it went off the rails pretty quickly (no, not Ruby on Rails rails. Train rails!)
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gRegor` invites everyone to #indiechat
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aaronpk i've seen some pretty terrible ______ where blank is node, ruby, etc etc
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aaronpk gRegor`: thanks lol
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SamB mko: PHP has SOO MANY unresolved inconsistancies
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: do you know Atwood's Law? "any application that can be written in JavaScript, will eventually be written in JavaScript."
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SamB and did you hear that they used to choose names for things so that they would not all have the same length, because their hash function was length based?
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SamB and many of those names are still here even though they switched to a less stupid hash function?
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SamB and how about those exceptions, hmm?
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kylewm isn't there a C -> JS compiler?
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kylewm or something along thos elines?
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SamB kylewm: C -> asm.js, at least
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kylewm asm.js that's what i was thinking of
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aaronpk way to kill that conversation gRegor` ;)
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gRegor` Hehe. #indiechat is booming now!
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SamB so, what sites can I link to for the actual authentication?
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SamB will launchpad work?
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aaronpk the list of supported OAuth providers for indieauth.com is listed there
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aaronpk I haven't added launchpad, but I probably could pretty quickly if it would be useful to enough people
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aaronpk they have to be added one by one because each silo requires registering an API key
Crossdiver, caseorganic, danfowler, j12t, petermolnar, brianloveswords, sdboyer, KevinMarks, the_merlin, bear, peat, dariusdunlap, glennjones, muhh, irdan, saurik_, donpdonp, arlen, iboxifoo, hadleybeeman, bigbluehat, CaptainCalliope, ngoldman, piney0, amblin, hugoroyd, tallpaul_, mattl, benward, voxpelli, jden, rknLA, galfert, finchd, mlinksva, jtzl_, rhiaro, catsup, lukebrooker and scor joined the channel
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@t shocked & numb from losing @chloeweil. saw her 11 days ago @IndieWebCamp http://indiewebcamp.com/2014#East_Photos http://indiewebcamp.com/images/9/90/indiewebcamp_nyc2014.JPG (ttk.me t4X12) (twitter.com/_/status/487370638374363136)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/487370638374363136/14538913 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014#East_Photos (webmention)
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bret how do I enable the experimental wiki theme that came out of 2014?
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aaronpk bret: http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/redesign
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