#indiewebcamp 2014-07-14

2014-07-14 UTC
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KartikPrabhu In any case... I would always attach annotations to the paragraphs as they provide more context
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KevinMarks I was going to try, but it won't let me annotate the page
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KartikPrabhu yeah I tried too
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pdurbin KartikPrabhu: you listen to podcasts... you might like the indieweb slant at 5by5 | The Web Ahead #75: Creative Direction with Andy Clarke - http://5by5.tv/webahead/75 ... close to an hour in
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@silverton Even @LinkedIn has joined RFC compliant email deniers @timberners_lee @indiewebcamp Even for 10+ yr customers. https://twitter.com/silverton/status/488473651378135043/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/488473651378135043)
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snarfed.org edited /h-card (+812) "/* Issues */ more user feature description" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu pdurbin: I do try to keep up with The Web Ahead
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snarfed tantek KartikPrabhu gRegor` etc: i took a stab at rephrasing the partial h-card thing as pure user feature(s) on http://indiewebcamp.com/h-card#Issues . feel free to ”°evise, move, etc.
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KartikPrabhu pdurbin: seems I have to catch up on ep.74 onwards
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: thanks :) will take a look
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pdurbin KartikPrabhu: cool. well, I'm curious what you think. He starts talking about how he's disappointed when people post on Medium instead of their own sites.
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KartikPrabhu pdurbin: there have been a lot of talk about "Medium allows me to just write. own site makes me want to redesign all the time" so <shrug>
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pdurbin maybe I put that wrong... he's not negative about it... just talking about the value of posting to your own site, your own domain
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pdurbin he comes at it very much from the creative/artistic side of things
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KartikPrabhu oh no. Andy Clarke is pro-own domain afaik
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KartikPrabhu I meant others who post on Medium
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pdurbin yeah
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snarfed.org edited /h-card (+93) "/* Issues */ more user feature" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu pdurbin: actually why does Andy Clarke not have his own site/blog?
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KevinMarks isn't he at malarkey?
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KevinMarks hm, looks like he considers http://stuffandnonsense.co.uk/ to be him
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KartikPrabhu kevinMarks: yes... that's his twitter...
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KevinMarks and his about.me
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KartikPrabhu this is the third time Ihave run into about.me in a wekk
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KevinMarks a bit like running into a glass door you thought was open
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KartikPrabhu or people running into a wall they have run into before
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@kartik_prabhu To the guy who once said to me: “You have no web presence, if you don’t have an Orkut account.” How you like me now? - K #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/488485775890055168)
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hmans \o/
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KartikPrabhu :)
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bret this might be a dumb q, but will my micropub endpoint ever get a POST that has both multipart and form encoded data?
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kylewm bret: I think form-data is likely to be one of the parts of a multipart message
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kylewm I know of a h-feed -> XML feed adapter
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kylewm is there something for going the reverse direction? (creating an h-feed from an XML feed)
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KevinMarks2 Kyle that would be relatively straightforward using universal feed parser and your code of python template language
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KevinMarks2 I should bring JsonToXoxo back up, and make an mf2 version
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Loqi fo sho
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bret KevinMarks2++
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Loqi KevinMarks2 has 2 karma
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bret kylewm: the request is either form encoded or multipart. So it wont be both... i think
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kylewm I agree with that
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kylewm but there could be a section of a multipart request that IS form-encoded, right?
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SamB kylewm: you mean, from an actual browser, or from some silly person playing around with Emacs?
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kylewm SamB: bret: looks like I was confusing "form-data" with a urlencoded form. plz to ignore me
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bret kylewm: oh crap really?
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bret im populating an internal object called body from the multipart data... it might overlap with form encoded data?
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bret oic
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KartikPrabhu !tell pdurbin nice podcast by Jen Simmons and Andy Clarke. fwiw I actually happen to completely agree with Andy's POV. Hand-designing each post was a big part of why I switched to having my own site. see: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/redux##adapt+the+look+and+feel+of+an+article
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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bret KartikPrabhu: I can barely see the paragraph highlight on my screen
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KartikPrabhu oh really... hmm
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KartikPrabhu I did mean it to be subtle but I might have over done it :P
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bret its probrably my screen + f.lux
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bret but its tough to see, I can take a photo if you want
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KartikPrabhu bret: screen shot would be quite helpful thanks :)
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KartikPrabhu also my screen is calibrated for photo-editing so might have weird dynamic range settings
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bret KartikPrabhu: love this btw: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/redux##structure+of+an+article
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bret the visual
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KartikPrabhu :D thanks
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KartikPrabhu damn fragmentions are useful :P
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KartikPrabhu should also update his CSS to use https so it works with individual posts...
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bret yeah they are
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bret if browsers auto +ed the text after a ## in th url bar it would be soooo easy
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KartikPrabhu FF is neat because it automatically URL encodes so you cna just copy, add ## and paste text
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bret KartikPrabhu: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bretc/14463091228/lightbox
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KartikPrabhu oh that looks....... invisible! will try to have some better highlighting... thanks :)
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@benwerd A table full of #indieweb at #yxyy https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/488553293589659648/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/488553293589659648)
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bret moar yxyy blog/notes plz. kthnx
KartikPrabhu, cweiske, chrissaad, KevinMarks2, chander_s, squeakytoy, fmarier, krendil, phil80, petermolnar, sankha93, glennjones, dysfun, pfefferle, nemo-yiannis, adactio and sammachin joined the channel
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tommorris welcomes sammachin :)
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sammachin waves
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sammachin tommorris: continuing our discussion I guess i could build something that lets me tweet then takes the tweet, deletes it re-publishes it on my site and syndicates it back to twitter, but that seems like it could get messy v quick!
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tommorris Yep. That's sort of PESOS++. :)
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tommorris I know some people do that for Instagram.
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tommorris Just because Instagram has a convenient posting mechanism. Photos are harder to handle on mobile devices without a dedicated app.
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sammachin I wonder what the experience is like for people following me though, if it was an @ reply I do that with they'd probably get 2 notifications which is a bit clunky
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sammachin I think for now I'll stick with PESOS ifttt makes that all very easy, more important things to do on my site and other projects for now anyway
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tommorris sammachin: I don't bother posting replies on my own site at the moment, just because it's a bit clunky.
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tommorris others are, but are using webmentions and so on.
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pdurbin KartikPrabhu: glad you liked it :)
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Loqi pdurbin: KartikPrabhu left you a message 6 hours, 24 minutes ago: nice podcast by Jen Simmons and Andy Clarke. fwiw I actually happen to completely agree with Andy's POV. Hand-designing each post was a big part of why I switched to having my own site. see: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/redux##adapt+the+look+and+feel+of+an+article
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@WeAreWedg @indiewebcamp's values are extremely similar to ours. At WEDG, we suggest you definitely check them out! #NTHSTP #OwnYourData (twitter.com/_/status/488641432883064833)
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@TractionTeam RT @kevinmarks: "@roundtrip: I just want to be able to point to whatever, wherever Twitter conversation https://t.co/gQ6Jrk81Vd" #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/488648619827159040)
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@glennjones @Wordius actual changed over to node.js and built my own system http://t.co/33HNmFiOHL, its based on http://indiewebcamp.com/ concepts. (twitter.com/_/status/488649120286904322)
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cweiske glennjones, your homepage is currently stopped
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@shehbaz_afzal RT @WeAreWedg: @indiewebcamp's values are extremely similar to ours. At WEDG, we suggest you definitely check them out! #NTHSTP #OwnYourData (twitter.com/_/status/488649585850875904)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/glennjones/488649120286904322/488649552799731713 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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glennjones cweiske thanks I have so got to move it off nodejitsu, app restart keeps failing without giving me any warning
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/glennjones/488649120286904322/488649127174352896 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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@glennjones @wordius you build something like my site in WP with @pfefferle Webmention plugin and https://brid-gy.appspot.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/488651747444133889)
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@glennjones @wordius if you have not already checkout http://indiewebcamp.com/wordpress lots of links to tools and ideas there (twitter.com/_/status/488652204732321792)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/glennjones/488649120286904322/488651747444133889 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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@Wordius @glennjones I’m running Webmentions tried Bridgy. My problem is how to get tweets on the page with Web Intents. http://wordius.com/updates/ (twitter.com/_/status/488652634921119744)
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@glennjones @Wordius I am not sure your webmentions are working correctly. If you want to jump on the indiewebcamp IRC I can try and help you sort it (twitter.com/_/status/488656365096038400)
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GWG pfefferle: Snarfed was talking about using that filter you put in for the response to do a Bridgy plugin last night.
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pfefferle GWG nice!
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GWG pfefferle: It is on my not-roadmap.
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pfefferle GWG :D
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GWG pfefferle: He is going for no UI, as is his custom.
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GWG I wanted to take the data and store it as post metadata so it could be displayed in any way the user wanted, decoupling display from storage.
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GWG He may get to it first though, as I'm still finishing up the theme project.
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pfefferle GWG I am curious! Is there a repo yet?
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GWG pfefferle: For which?
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pfefferle the brid.gy plugin
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GWG He just mentioned it yesterday. If he started, he didn't sent me a link
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GWG pfefferle: Thought you'd be interested to know.
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pfefferle GWG yes indeed, thanks!
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pfefferle GWG sorry that I haven’t looked at your pull request now, but I had to watch soccer ;)
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GWG pfefferle, understand completely. I was waiting for your response before looking at similar coubt comnands for your semantic plugin.
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GWG count
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snarfed hey pfefferle or GWG, mind if i ask for some php help?
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snarfed i'm working on using a wordpress-webmention hook to add rel-syndication links
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snarfed (this one: https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention/blob/master/webmention.php#L363 )
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snarfed it's running, but php complains "Undefined variable: target"
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snarfed here's the code: https://gist.github.com/snarfed/5641e1773ba72925f61b
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snarfed that undefined variable error is on lines 9 and 10
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snarfed the dlog($target) call shows that it's empty. i'm not sure why
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snarfed ok, i also see "Missing argument 2" and "Missing argument 3" errors, so $source and $target really aren't provided
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pfefferle snarfed you have to tell the action how many params the function has
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pfefferle snarfed add_action( $hook, $function_to_add, $priority, $accepted_args );
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snarfed ahhh thank you!
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pfefferle that means add_action('webmention_post_send', 'bridgy_publish_syndication_link‘, 10, 3);
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snarfed trying now
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pfefferle priority 10 is default, so you can alternatively use null
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pfefferle or a number higher then 10 to be sure that your action is loaded later than x
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snarfed right, i've definitely used that before, just forgot about the parameter count
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snarfed ok, it gets farther now at least
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snarfed pfefferle++ thanks!
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pfefferle and you should store the data in a meta
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Loqi pfefferle has 1 karma
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pfefferle not in the post
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pfefferle so you can customize the output
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snarfed heh true, i should. ideally i'd make it work with jihaisse's rel-syndication plugin
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snarfed i'm lazy right now though. :/ we'll see
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pfefferle ;)
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pfefferle drop me a note if you have finished a first version… perhaps I can help you with the meta stuff
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snarfed sure! will do
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pfefferle but it is not that big of a deal… save: https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-semantic-linkbacks/blob/master/semantic-linkbacks.php#L134
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pfefferle and customize the output https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-semantic-linkbacks/blob/master/semantic-linkbacks.php#L203
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pfefferle snarfed thanks for my first karma btw ;)
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snarfed aww glad to!
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kylewm pfefferle++ for the lowest karma : production code ratio in #indiewebcamp! :P
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Loqi pfefferle has 2 karma
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pfefferle keylewm thanks :)
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pfefferle oops, I meant kylewm
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@JuliaChidley RT @senormusic: http://soundcloud.com/si-senor-music #newmusic #music #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/488719562603773952)
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@hmans @tvdeyen "Likes" are coming (but, of course, you'll need a #pants or at least webmention enabled site :b) (twitter.com/_/status/488720311802953728)
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hmans Speaking of which. What's #indieweb's current thinking regarding distributed Likes?
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hmans I saw parts of yesterday's discussion, and right now I'm thinking: publish (given) Likes as resources (documents) on the web, linking back to the liked URI, and sending a webmention
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gRegor` hmans: Yep, that's how many are doing it: http://indiewebcamp.com/like
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gRegor` !tell KartikPbrabhu Could you fill in the dates/example here? http://indiewebcamp.com/like#Kartik_Prabhu
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KevinMarks morning
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gRegor` Morning, KevinMarks
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@kevinmarks Great advocacy for the creative control the #indieweb gives you when writing by @kartik_prabhu https://t.co/tYR1Q8ufr3. (twitter.com/_/status/488730598358282240)
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kylewm.com edited /like (+290) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add m'self" (view diff)
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@roundtrip RT @kevinmarks: Great advocacy for the creative control the #indieweb gives you when writing by @kartik_prabhu https://t.co/tYR1Q8ufr3. (twitter.com/_/status/488731183845736448)
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KevinMarks ah, I can't sent webmentions from twitter, because the webmention code doesn't resolve t.co?
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kylewm.com edited /like (+27) "/* Acegiak */ added "since" date for acegiak" (view diff)
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KevinMarks hm, so https://github.com/vrypan/webmention-tools/blob/master/webmentiontools/urlinfo.py would need to fetch any URLs that were t.co'd to check if they link.
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kylewm does Kartik use webmention-tools?
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KevinMarks yes, https://github.com/kartikprabhu/webmention extends it
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KevinMarks oh, hang on, it says deprecated
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KevinMarks !tell KartikPrabhu are you using something other than https://github.com/kartikprabhu/webmention now?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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snarfed just fyi i use vrypan's webmention-tools for bridgy too, and he's merged all of my PRs. it's pretty well tested at this point, at least in prod (no direct unit tests)
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snarfed looks like kartik'
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snarfed looks like kartik's fork is way old though
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snarfed (btw KevinMarks, it uses python-requests, which defaults to following redirects, so that alone probably isn't the problem)
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kylewm snarfed: this doesn't follow redirects though, right? https://github.com/vrypan/webmention-tools/blob/master/webmentiontools/urlinfo.py#L100
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kylewm so if you check twitter-post.linksTo(https://kartikprabhu.com/marginalia), it would return false, I think
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KevinMarks right, that was the point - that it's looking for direct links. if it looked for indirect ones it would have to HEAD every link
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snarfed ah, good point re checking the backlink
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kylewm mf2util doesn't follow those redirects either... it expects you to pass in all your own shortened/alternate URLs
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KevinMarks also, it's not clear that that would find a URL with an appended fragmention
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kylewm I think that KartikPrabhu was discussing getting marginalia webmentions directly from twitter with shepazu though
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KevinMarks I have another mad scheme in mind...
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KevinMarks tweet-annotating a document with webmention and marginalia
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kylewm KevinMarks: ref: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/marginalia-schepers
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KevinMarks I was thinking about the DRIP legislation in the UK, and the RapGenius style of annotation (which is close to marginalia, but selection based rather than paragraph) and thinking we might have all the bits
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kylewm where does Twitter come in?
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KevinMarks because getting people set up with a full indieweb presence isn't feasible short term, yet sending tweets is easy
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@benwerd Posting using Breach: http://breach.cc/ Neat-o. Looking forward to writing a @withknown / #indieweb module. (twitter.com/_/status/488741757991915520)
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Jeena I just had a privacy meltdown with Google. I wanted to try Google Glass and I had to enable Google+ to do so. This automatically enabled something called "automatic backup" which, as I now found out, uploads all pictures you have on your device (even those you got privatelly through other apps from your friends) to this Google+ account.
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snarfed wow
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snarfed at least it doesn't make those uploaded pictures public…but still, that's awful
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Jeena I don't quite know if they were public or not, I panicked and deleted everything as fast as I could, but yeah the live now there somewhere on the internet. As google always says: If you're embarrised of some content about you, you probably shouldn't have been doing it in the first place!
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bret yeah the G+ requirement probably the most annoying thing about most of googles things lately
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snarfed Jeena: they definitely don't get made public. regardless, yeah, they've been way too aggressive about that stuff, unacceptably so
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Jeena and all of this with my work account, I have to assume my bosses already saw everything ^^
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Jeena what does "public" mean, visible to everybody on the internet or visible to people in my address book or in my circles or ...
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snarfed Jeena: i'll rephrase and say iirc they're private by default, ie not visible to *anyone* else
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snarfed looking for confirmation now
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bret Jeena unless I get to see pictures of google execs on their yachts with hookers, fuck Erik Schmitt and his dumb ideas on privacy
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Jeena yeah
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kylewm bret++
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kylewm lol
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Loqi bret has 18 karma
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Jeena "Auto Backup
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Jeena Automatically back up new photos and videos to Google Photos. Backups are for your eyes only." it says here
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: KevinMarks left you a message 1 hour, 13 minutes ago: are you using something other than https://github.com/kartikprabhu/webmention now?
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: I have been using ronkyuu https://github.com/bear/ronkyuu for sending and receiving webmention
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gRegor` I can confirm G+ Auto Backup photos are private by default.
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KevinMarks aha
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: what are auto backup photos?
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KevinMarks Google Auto backup sends your photos to gdrive/g+
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KevinMarks they default to just you, you cna then share
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donpdonp KartikPrabhu: the Android camera app will push your photos to G+ automatically if you want
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KevinMarks if you tag anyone, it shares with them
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KevinMarks this is on by default
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gRegor` Jeena: You can disable Auto Backup and still use G+, btw.
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KartikPrabhu aah I see cool
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KartikPrabhu I have no "social media" things on my phone :P
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KevinMarks there was a "History API" so you could send things to G+ for the user to approve too, but it was deprecated
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gRegor` Refer to scrollback. Jeena panicked when trying google glass because it required enabling Auto Backup on G+
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KevinMarks http://venturebeat.com/2012/06/27/google-plus-history/
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donpdonp Is anyone looking at an indieweb version of Google Circles?
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Jeena yeah, that most probably is true, but I just got so scared when everything showed up in my browser within the google+ UI that I panicked and removed everything I could find
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gRegor` Totally understandable, Jeena :)
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gRegor` They've definitely had snafus before, like with Google Buzz
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KevinMarks donpdonp: there was some discussion about ways to map friends/followings etc
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kylewm G+ signup is pretty sneaky these days too... I got signed up quasi-accidentally trying to leave a comment on a youtube video
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gRegor` donpdonp: I am interested in the idea, but have not gotten near that point yet (presuming you mean for sharing posts to a specific 'circle')
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KevinMarks KartikPrabhu: I tried to send you a webmention for https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/488730598358282240
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@kevinmarks Great advocacy for the creative control the #indieweb gives you when writing by @kartik_prabhu https://t.co/tYR1Q8ufr3. (twitter.com/_/status/488730598358282240)
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KevinMarks but the t.co doesn't couint
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donpdonp gRegor`: yup.
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: yeah... have been working towards fixing it... I'll add it to my t.co.txt :P
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gRegor` donpdonp: There's been some rudimentary private post testing. kylewm has a basic 'audience' field he can specify the domains that can view the post.
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KevinMarks donpdonp: there is some work here: http://indiewebcamp.com/private_posts
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KevinMarks also http://indiewebcamp.com/SharingWithCircles which predates that
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gRegor` KartikPrabhu: Looks like Loqi didn't leave you my tell. Could you fill in the dates/example here? http://indiewebcamp.com/like#Kartik_Prabhu
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Loqi woot!
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KevinMarks I was thinking further on the annotation/marginalia/rapgenius conversation
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: I will soon
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KartikPrabhu I jsut posted my first like actually
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KevinMarks especially in the light of the DRIP legislation being rushed through UK parilaiment
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KevinMarks and pondering making the legislation tweet-annotateable by webmention
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: what is this DRIP legislation?
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: I think adactio parses t.co somehow in his webmention set up
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KevinMarks https://www.openrightsgroup.org/assets/files/pdfs/reports/DRIP_joint_briefing.pdf
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KartikPrabhu I started working on it becasue shepazu wanted to annotate using twitter too
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gRegor` I thought adactio was just using bridgy
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KevinMarks basically a surveillance bill being rushed through UK parliament to force all ISPs (Including overseas ones(!) ) to retain users traffic fot government searches
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: his webmention forms can handle tweets afaik
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gRegor` I heard about that bill. Ugh.
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: enabling tweet annotation of such public issues would be amazing
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KartikPrabhu I don't know how to handle the volume though... might be chalenging UI/UX
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: happen to have an example of a tweet being posted directly to adactio.com?
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KartikPrabhu hmmm I don't know how I'd find out... they all look the same no
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: I rememeber I did it once.. let me look
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gRegor` He has wm from the chat log, heh
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: hmm can't find examples at the moment... but I'm sure he does it
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KartikPrabhu kyelwm: let me actually send one now!
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gRegor` I'm not sure how to test that, since most of us are in bridgy's lookup, if we tweet a link to adactio it's going to get picked up.
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gRegor` So hard to tell if it's his form or bridgy, right?
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: here you go: http://adactio.com/journal/6675/#comment2707 ;)
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: so I used a old tweet before my bridgy days :)
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gRegor` Nice
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kylewm oh clever
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kylewm so he sees the backlink even though it is hidden by a redirect
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gRegor` Might use longurl.org?
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gRegor` Or just curl with redirects, returning the effective URL
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kylewm it's a lot of work to potentially do a HEAD request for every link in the source of every webmention you receive
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kylewm but maybe worth special-casing t.co links
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KevinMarks right.
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KevinMarks or special-casing short ones?
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KevinMarks note-style posts?
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kylewm or just tweets in general, if you're actually thinking about extracting content from twitter
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snarfed yet another reason to use apis instead of scraping silo html for use cases like this
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kylewm (which I have a little bit of python code for if anyone wants it .. tweet id to mf2)
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snarfed they all give you the original url
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snarfed kylewm: cool! looking at that now
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kylewm ((although now that i say that out loud, you're much better off using snarfed's activitystreams-unofficial)
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kylewm )
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snarfed oh it's not in mf2util
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snarfed lol, i don't mean to monopolize that use case!
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snarfed but thanks
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kylewm snarfed: nah, it's not nicely abstracted (yet) https://github.com/kylewm/redwind/blob/master/redwind/twitter.py#L208
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@thebradking I've yet to hear a successful story abt LiveFyre, Disqus, or IndieWeb actually pulling in social comments consistently. Am I wrong on this? (twitter.com/_/status/488762541255180288)
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KevinMarks the nice thing about not using APIs is that you aren't ToS bound, but I do see the point
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voxpelli Adactio's solution is kind of fun – how low-tech can beat high-tech: https://gist.github.com/adactio/6484118
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voxpelli String matching beats DOM-parsing :)
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KevinMarks right, though will still get confused by a fragmention, unless you strip that before calling the webmention API
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KevinMarks or maybe everythgin after the ## will be stripped by PHP anyway
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: I'll get to playing with fragmentions from Twitter soon
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KartikPrabhu oh ok snarfed already replied to: https://twitter.com/thebradking/status/488762541255180288
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@thebradking I've yet to hear a successful story abt LiveFyre, Disqus, or IndieWeb actually pulling in social comments consistently. Am I wrong on this? (twitter.com/_/status/488762541255180288)
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snarfed probably shouldn't have. :P ah well
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KartikPrabhu is it hard to find examples on the Web rather than ask about them on Twitter?
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: why "probably shouldn't have"
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KevinMarks on Twitter you ask for a human response
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KartikPrabhu I was going to show off my responses that using bridgy etc...
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: http://xkcd.com/386/
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KartikPrabhu lol
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kartikprabhu.com edited /like (+129) "/* Kartik Prabhu */ added first like" (view diff)
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gRegor` I responded with an example
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KartikPrabhu comparing Disqus and LiveFyre to IndieWeb is not right anyway
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KartikPrabhu If Disqus has failed to pull in "social comments" then that if quite the failure for a commet silo
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gRegor` Beyond that they call claim (?) to pull in comments from other networks
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gRegor` s/call/all/
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Loqi gRegor` meant to say: Beyond that they all claim (?) to pull in comments from other networks
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KartikPrabhu right! given that on the IndieWeb you are pulling copies of comments while on Disqus you are hosting the original comments on an integrated silo
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gRegor` Not familiar with LiveFyre, but I've heard anecdotes that disqus doesn't do great on pulling in tweets
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KartikPrabhu really! Bridgy seems to be working great then!
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KartikPrabhu bridgy++ for comment pulling
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Loqi bridgy has 11 karma
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cweiske KartikPrabhu, but bridgy only fetches comments on tweets it posted itself
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KartikPrabhu no
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kylewm voxpelli: that adactio solution for checking backlinks makes me feel super dumb ..
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cweiske wait
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snarfed cweiske: definitely not
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cweiske only reactions to tweets of the user registered with bridgy
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cweiske not from all of the network
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KartikPrabhu yes
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KartikPrabhu which is the use-case anyway
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cweiske but IIRC disqus doesn't work like that
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snarfed well, thebradking may have meant whole network
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cweiske they "magically" fetch all of them
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KartikPrabhu then Disqus is overdoing things
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KartikPrabhu why does Disqus want to pull comments to something that does not have a corresponding Disqus-ed post?
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: it looks for mentions of the post url
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KartikPrabhu oh over the whole network...
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KartikPrabhu eh... again really overkill for something that is essentially a hack around the silos
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snarfed eh the silos are the majority now and for years to come
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snarfed bridgy actually used to do whole network too, years ago, before webmention
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KartikPrabhu yes... which is fine. But if we keep tolerating the silos by making "better" ways to extract data from them which they don't make easy to extract then....
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KartikPrabhu which is one reason I don't bother with FB. FB makes it really hard to do anything with their data (exporting to dumb div soup for instance), so I don't care about it
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gRegor` Wait, that gist of adactio doesn't show how he's resolving backlinks (?)
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gRegor` Oh wait, Twitter puts the full URL in an attribute, don't they? yeah, that works. Hah
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KartikPrabhu can't read PHP to save his life
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gRegor` So simply pulling in the HTMl and looking for the target URL works.
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KartikPrabhu oh not looking whether it is actually linked to
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gRegor` class="js-display-url"
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gRegor` <span class="js-display-url">adactio.com/journal/6675/</span> in your tweet example
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KartikPrabhu isn't it data-something something
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KartikPrabhu 140 char limit is so artificial
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gRegor` There's data-expanded-url as well
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KartikPrabhu yreah that one
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KartikPrabhu I'll stick to using activitystreams
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gRegor` Which is probably the one getting caught, because the js-display-url doesn't have the scheme
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gRegor` I dunno, reading HTML seems pretty straightforward. :)
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KartikPrabhu good luck getting content form it ;)
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KartikPrabhu from*
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KartikPrabhu also i want to store the mf2 in my storage so...
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gRegor` Ah, yeah
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snarfed gRegor`: if you prefer html, you can get the mf2 version of a tweet from https://twitter-activitystreams.appspot.com/
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snarfed (you just generate a url w/the id and your access token, ie no need to use the library)
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snarfed if you ask nicely, KartikPrabhu might even let you borrow his token :P
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gRegor` Ah, interesting. I played with that briefly the other week. Not too familiar with activity streams. I thought it only let you pull in your own tweets / replies or something.
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gRegor` Twitter tokens? I has them.
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KartikPrabhu depends how nicely you ask
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KartikPrabhu <darn>
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gRegor` Haha
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gRegor` I tried out https://github.com/aaronpk/php-mf2-twitter-shim and it worked well, so I think I'll continue with that. My use case wasn't for direct twitter wm, but I could add that.
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gRegor` I was working on pulling in reply-context when I'm replying to a tweet.
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snarfed great! i'm all for whatever works
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gRegor` But for reference, activitystreams can pull in an arbitrary tweet?
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gRegor` (public of course)
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: yes
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snarfed gRegor`: and favorites, replies (full chain), RTs, etc
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snarfed also timelines and lists
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gRegor` Ahh. Hm. Might have to play with that more.
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gRegor` full chain replies could be interesting
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com/notes (+101) "/* Todo */" (view diff)
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hmans Is http://indiewebify.waterpigs.co.uk/validate-h-entry/ broken atm?
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hmans http://indiewebify.waterpigs.co.uk/validate-h-entry/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhmans.io%2F is giving me unstyled results for the first h-entry followed by "Whoops, looks like something went wrong."
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KevinMarks hm, reading adactio's gist, it doesn't check if target is actually on his domain, so you could send a webmention that mentions something else and have it accepted...
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snarfed.org edited /h-card (-263) "/* Issues */ minor revision" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com/notes (+643) "/* Notes */ URL structure" (view diff)
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gRegor` hmans: Looks like maybe? pin13.net seemed to parse it ok: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhmans.io%2F
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hmans *bookmarks pin13.net*
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hmans thanks :)
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hmans Does h-entry mind at all if I include markup that is actually hidden on the page?
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gRegor` I believe both those mf2 parsers are running php-mf2, but Barnaby's (waterpigs.co.uk) might not be as up to date.
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snarfed also https://kylewm.com/api/mf2?url=http://hmans.io/ (different parser)
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hmans Reason: I don't ask my users for post titles
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hmans instead, I extract titles from their post bodies. If they want a post title, they just add a H1/H2/H3 to the post (using Markdown, but doesn't matter).
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gRegor` hmans: If it's hidden with CSS, it will still parse.
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kylewm hmans: why indiewebify.waterpigs and not http://indiewebify.me/validate-h-entry/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhmans.io
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hmans gRegor`, thanks
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hmans kylewm, it's what was linked to from the mf2 wiki
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kylewm linky? please :)
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KartikPrabhu hmans: to be clear. mf2 parsers parse the HTML... what you do with CSS and JS is irrelevant
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hmans KartikPrabhu, makes sense. Was just wondering if that was considered bad/good practice.
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gRegor` !tell barnabywalters FYI http://indiewebify.waterpigs.co.uk/validate-h-entry/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhmans.io%2F returned a "Whoops, looks like something went wrong." Not sure if php-mf2 needs to be updated or something else.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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jden here's a web thing i started working on last night - http://pond.jden.is think of it like talky.io for super lo-fi video connections
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KartikPrabhu hmans: it is considered bad practice to have invisible data as that is easy to rot away
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gRegor` But there are still several of us that do it. :) snarfed, me
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snarfed http://indiewebcamp.com/antipatterns#invisible_metadata
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: I do it too to some extent... but it is good to know and keep an eye out for it
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gRegor` Yep. And I'm working towards getting away from it.
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kylewm hmans: nm, think I got it
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kylewm jden: awesome! is it webrtc too?
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jden kylewm: first pass was webrtc datachannels then i got frustrated and swapped it out for socket.io for the time being
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jden this was late last night
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jden ultimately i'd prefer for it to be datachannels though
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kylewm anybody else in http://pond.jden.is/#indiewebcamp ?
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jden kylewm: it's currently only 1:1. or i guess it won't stop more people from joining, but it'll just jump back and forth and probably freak out :)
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: I see you :P
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kylewm ha, I only see jden
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KartikPrabhu wait why did it not ask for my camera
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kylewm and i'm not sure how to type
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jden i've only tested on chrome so far
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KartikPrabhu I'm using FF
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jden kylewm: you might have to tab through
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jden should be frist tab index
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KartikPrabhu am I there/
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jden yeah, here's the bad multiplexing :)
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kylewm hahaha
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KartikPrabhu gregor`!
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KartikPrabhu how do I type?
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gRegor` how u type?
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gRegor` it's rotating through images really fast
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jden tab - the white underline thing is a textbox
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gRegor` Ahh, white underline at top
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jden haha this is actually really great with multiple people
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kylewm that is just a happy accident?
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jden yeah
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jden first time i've tested it with more than 2 people
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kylewm that's hilarious
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@thebradking @LivefyreSkyler Disqus and IndieWeb stuff is similar. "Others" means my friends have similar issues. None consistently work. Seems that.... (twitter.com/_/status/488786512956239873)
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gRegor` Didn't have audio, only video
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jden yeah no audio
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gRegor` Very cool, though
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jden thanks. hope to experiment more
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kylewm jden++ fun experiment! thanks for sharing
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Loqi jden has 3 karma
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gRegor` https://twitter.com/thebradking/status/488786395373527040
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@thebradking @LivefyreSkyler sorry. was on a run :) LF has NEVER pulled automatically for me. It's only worked when support has done it manually... (twitter.com/_/status/488786395373527040)
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gRegor` Re: earlier conversation + bridgy being awesome
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KartikPrabhu yeah... I have no idea what expereince thebradking has with Indieweb or if he's just putting that in the conversation
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KartikPrabhu he can not expect Indieweb commenting to work like Disqus or whatever this LiveFyre do-dad is
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kylewm "Livefyre helps companies engage consumers through a
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kylewm combination of real-time conversation, social curation and
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kylewm social advertising."
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kylewm sounds just like IndieWeb
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gRegor` He hasn't responded to snarfed or me so far
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: the main diff... is it is federated? If it pulls twitter comments and stores in some LiveFyre silo (like Disqus does) then it isn't
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gRegor` From an end user, use-case perspective they're very alike. "I want to pull in comments from FB and Twitter."
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KartikPrabhu also you can't "switch on" Indieweb by inserting a JS into your blog page
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KartikPrabhu so there is a user perspective where it doesn't work^
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gRegor` webmention.io + webmention.js is a pretty basic setup
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gRegor` I'm just saying I think that's why indieweb is included in the conversation. Brad wants to get his comments. He may not even know about the principles or that Disqus isn't in line with them.
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KartikPrabhu hmm
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gRegor` If he keeps mentioning it, maybe I'll invite him here.
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gRegor` though maybe that'd be weird. I know some people are like "who are you?" to Twitter strangers, even if they're public. :)
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KartikPrabhu yeah <shrug> I am just letting that conversation go on until there is more info
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KevinMarks hmm https://twitter.com/paulg/status/488793442500104192
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@paulg My instincts tell me there is something like Twitter but better that is still undiscovered. (twitter.com/_/status/488793442500104192)
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KartikPrabhu "like" and "better" in what sense?
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KartikPrabhu looks like someone asked him that already :P
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kylewm lol https://twitter.com/maxlevine10/status/488794031057408000
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@maxlevine10 @paulg I think I'm working on just that. can I run you through my startup? (twitter.com/_/status/488794031057408000)
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KartikPrabhu oh boy
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hmans Any idea why the u-photo on eg. http://hmans.io/pbo737 isn't being picked up?
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hmans Oh, https://kylewm.com/api/mf2?url=http://hmans.io/pbo737 sees it.
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kylewm hmans, it's outside of your h-card
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hmans And I guess what http://indiewebify.me/validate-h-entry/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhmans.io%2Fpbo737 is saying is that it can't find a photo for the *author*. (What would the markup have to look like in that case?)
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hmans http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry doesn't mention anything about the post's u-photo having to be inside h-card
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KartikPrabhu hmans: the post's u-photo doesn't but the author's does
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gRegor` It shows up in the h-entry for me
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KartikPrabhu yeah... so right now it is a "photo for the post" not "photo for the author"
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hmans Alright.
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hmans Thanks.
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hmans So I just move it into h-card and I'm set?
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gRegor` If it's supposed to be the author photo, yes
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hmans Yeah.
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KartikPrabhu if you want it to be a photo for the author yes
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gRegor` jinx
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KartikPrabhu damn you gregor`
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gRegor` Haha
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gRegor` Killer photo URLs, btw :)
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hmans Yeah... I'm using code that generates custom thumbnail sizes of stuff on the fly, embeds the instructions in a signed hash, passes the hash into a Rack middleware, executes them there, letting me HTTP-cache the heck out of the generated image because if the image changes, the URL changes.
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hmans But I digress. :)
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hmans Now http://indiewebify.me/validate-h-entry/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhmans.io%2Fpbo737 doesn't pick up p-author.
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hmans I was under the impression I could nest p-author inside h-card.
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hmans I don't want/can't put the image within the <a>.
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kylewm hmans: that's just the minimal h-card
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kylewm http://microformats.org/wiki/h-card has a much more sophisticated example
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hmans Oh, I just use p-name within h-card -- check, thanks
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kylewm You still want h-card to be the value of the h-entry's p-author
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kylewm i.e., the outer span has to be class="p-author h-card"
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hmans Yup, thanks.
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hmans I need to set up a mf2 validator locally.
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hmans Yay! http://indiewebify.me/validate-h-entry/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhmans.io%2Faab147
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Loqi woot
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kylewm hmans++ well done!
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Loqi hmans has 2 karma
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@hmans #pants now renders posts using proper microformats2 h-entry markup. http://indiewebify.me/validate-h-entry/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhmans.io%2Faab147 (twitter.com/_/status/488798889202692097)
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hmans So, here's something I'm working on in my app:
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hmans I'm making the same middleware that serves up custom images on the fly fetch remote posts (as mf2, JSON etc.) and serve them as clean mf2 JSON to some AJAX stuff I'm doing.
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hmans Saves you from having to deal with cross-domain stuff, enables HTTP caching in case the other node goes away, and so on and so forth. Fun times.
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kylewm how long will you cache documents for?
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hmans Undecided. Not long-term. I guess I could make it revalidate using a HEAD request with ETag? I don't know how much everyone is supporting that.
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kylewm hmans: actually what i'm more curious about is whether you are planning to accept incoming webmentions too?
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hmans kylewm, I am already!
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hmans kylewm, they're not displayed _publicly_ yet, though.
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gRegor` Yep, I successfully sent him one the other day
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kylewm whoa!!
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rascul i'm gonna accept webmentions some day
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snarfed hmans: that middleware sounds loosely related to http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieArchive
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hmans Very close to, though. I'm rewriting my entire conversation tracking code to use incoming webmention pings.
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gRegor` gives rascul a webmention
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rascul runs away
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hmans Is there mf2 markup for URLs that *reference* the h-entry?
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hmans ie. received webmention sources?
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KartikPrabhu p-comment
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gRegor` I think this is what you're looking for: http://indiewebcamp.com/comment-presentation
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hmans So if I just have the URL, I could just go <a href="..." class="p-comment u-url">?
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KartikPrabhu no! that would set the url to be url of the original post
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hmans Oh, ok.
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KartikPrabhu all properties go to the nearest h-*
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hmans I'm basically looking for the opposite of u-in-reply-to
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KartikPrabhu you could do a u-comment .... u-* bascially says hey parse this like a URL
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gregorlove.com edited /comments-presentation (+12) "/* Current Indiewebcamp Practices */" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu hmans: so if you are including just the URL of the responses then I suggest <a href="..." class="u-comment">URL</a>
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@AndySylvester99 Minimal River.js Reader - Read feeds in River.js format #indieweb http://andysylvester.com/b/5A (twitter.com/_/status/488801343327711232)
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hmans Thanks
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KartikPrabhu anyone know what river.js is? http://riverjs.org/
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KartikPrabhu " it represents the flow from a collection of feeds, not just a single feed." means... what?
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kylewm hmans: when you have a chance, would love to have you add pants to the production section of http://indiewebcamp.com/projects
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gRegor` It's a feed reader in JSON, basially. Been a while since I looked at it.
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KartikPrabhu was confused by the above quoted description from Winer
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KartikPrabhu which sounds very spiritual in not a good way
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hmans kylewm, absolutely.
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@LouiseCarrier RT @senormusic: http://soundcloud.com/si-senor-music #newmusic #music #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/488803039898509312)
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@whaity #indieweb https://kindle.amazon.com/post/e6lNLR-yQdqo14v0RjoFMg evangelical culture about the Christian apocalypse. When I was growing up in rural New Mexico, Raptu... (twitter.com/_/status/488807415991631872)
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JonathanNeal Hello!
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gRegor` Hi JonathanNeal
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JonathanNeal Hi gRegor`.
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@anomalily @pjf @bmndr @dreev @thatgirl @exobrainapp Oh nice! That's like the #indieweb version of IFTTT? Neat! (twitter.com/_/status/488808447765643264)
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finchd exobrain++ pjf++ indeed
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Loqi exobrain has 1 karma
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@temporaryhuman RT @kevinmarks: Great advocacy for the creative control the #indieweb gives you when writing by @kartik_prabhu https://t.co/tYR1Q8ufr3. (twitter.com/_/status/488811671813881857)
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@kyle_wm RT @kevinmarks: Great advocacy for the creative control the #indieweb gives you when writing by @kartik_prabhu https://t.co/tYR1Q8ufr3. (twitter.com/_/status/488813368472375296)
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KevinMarks lol, just found this retro test blog: http://hatomftw.blogspot.com
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KartikPrabhu ha! how many blog do you have?
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KevinMarks http://indiewebify.me/validate-h-entry/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhatomftw.blogspot.com
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KevinMarks I wonder if that's still true fo arbitrary blogger blogs
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KartikPrabhu if they are consistently using mf1 then yes
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KartikPrabhu I doubt that with the new "smart" templates though
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KartikPrabhu all content is inserted with JS so there goes that
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KevinMarks yeah they suck
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KevinMarks there's a way round that that I forget
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KevinMarks Append '?v=0' to the URL,
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KartikPrabhu oh!
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: doesn't work on http://exptdesign.blogspot.com/ with JS off
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KevinMarks hm, maybe the broke that workaround
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KartikPrabhu well glad I quit Blogger :P
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KevinMarks you used to be abel to force any blog into that mode and out of it
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KevinMarks I probably should
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: yeah post on your own site ;)
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KevinMarks I do, but my archives are on blogger and there are 13 years of them
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KartikPrabhu ahh ok yeah that is lot less than what I had when I switched
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KevinMarks I need to get myself a template-based posting system before I can do that
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KartikPrabhu but if the exports have mf2 then it might not be so bad to move
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KartikPrabhu or just any mf
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mko KevinMarks: I've got around 10 years worth of content that I'm working on importing into my personal site's db. Finding all sorts of fun nostalgia and creating tons of bugs in my own personal site framework.
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mko Taking way more work than I realized to convert it all, too.
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KevinMarks the db part is what scares me
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KartikPrabhu another reason to avoid dbs
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mko Well, my "db" is file-based.
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KevinMarks I need to do an html->html template transform
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KartikPrabhu oh... mko what format?
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mko KartikPrabhu: It's just a bunch of JSON files that are duplicated in MongoDb and on the filesystem.
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mko It's super duper simple to use and keep in sync.
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KartikPrabhu cool
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KartikPrabhu yeah I have been comtemplating moving to a HTML+mf2 based file storage... but it is a huge enterprise and got derailed last week by stuff
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KartikPrabhu has so much to do...
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KevinMarks adding CSS to my site was a slippery slope...
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mko My JSON files for articles started as a JSON implementation of MF2 h-entry, but I've had to add a variety of stuff.
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mko lol KevinMarks
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KevinMarks do you reflect the added stuff in p-* properties?
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snarfed you all have way more patience than me. i'm much too lazy to roll my own CMS
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KevinMarks have you seen kevinmarks.com?
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KevinMarks is very lazy
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snarfed KevinMarks: lol true. you're only half included :P
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mko I started in the business working at a agency that built a business making websites for other companies using their homeroll CMS.
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KevinMarks I just added a max line length... http://www.kevinmarks.com/fragmentions.html
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mko So I've kind of had a bad habit of writing my own CMSes since then.
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mko KevinMarks: I do reflect all of the added properties except ones that I'm storing for faster recall (i.e. calculated statistics like word count and reading time).
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mko Using them as p-x-* to be more specific.
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mko Since they're not known properties.
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks++ for em units :)
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Loqi KevinMarks has 42 karma
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KevinMarks p-x-* is a bit precious - if they are properties that hEntry might need, just add them
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KartikPrabhu thinks that del should show datetime on hover
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KartikPrabhu and same with <ins>
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mko /shrug. Fair enough. The only ones that I've added so far are status and client.
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mko Anyway, be back in a bit. Need to get back to focusing on getting this done.
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kylewm KevinMarks: you've added webmention.js since last i looked atyour site too
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KevinMarks yep
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kylewm neato
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KevinMarks heh, but only from me on this post: http://www.kevinmarks.com/fragmentions.html
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KevinMarks again, I need a template model to make ti fit all posts
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KevinMarks :(
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: you mean some common CSS styles?
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KevinMarks I mean a way to inject the CSS and JS into the <head> of each one
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KartikPrabhu oh yeah that would need some templating
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: if you are into python maybe checkout: http://jinja.pocoo.org/
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GWG snarfed: Were you looking for me?
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snarfed GWG: figured it out, details in logs. thanks though!
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GWG Great
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GWG It worked out?
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snarfed yes
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GWG snarfed: Got code?
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snarfed GWG: not yet
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snarfed the answer to my q was http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-14/line/1405350217
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GWG I saw. But that was a while ago
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snarfed sadly i have a day job :P
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GWG Me too
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GWG I don't always know people's schedule
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GWG You could work the night shift.
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snarfed true! (i don't)
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GWG snarfed: I think I saw pfefferle agreed with me though
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snarfed GWG: oh sure, i do too
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GWG snarfed: About storing it as post meta
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GWG snarfed: I'm just waiting, because I'd send some pull requests over.
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kylewm does anyone have or know of a clever UI for selecting/entering tags for posts?
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mko kylewm: Just use a comma-separated list that you parse and concatenate. Super easy to use.
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mko If you're using Node, I can provide you with my module.
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snarfed GWG: at most i'd only do this inside https://github.com/jihaisse/wordpress-syndication , not as its own thing, so definitely don't block on me
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GWG snarfed: I don't use the Wordpress-syndication plugin because I thought the design and the storage functionality should be decoupled.
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GWG I've been moving slowly toward dividing things into pieces.
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kylewm mko: that's what I do too... i'm sort of imagining augmenting it with a row of buttons of common tags (where common is some combination of frequency and recency) to make it easier to tag posts on mobile