2014-07-17 UTC
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# 00:04 Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
# 00:04 indie-visitor Mr-Sparker
# 00:06 Mr-Sparker Good evening all. It's a small group here in Minneapolis tonight.
# 00:09 gRegor` Just the two of us in Chicago tonight
# 00:12 Mr-Sparker There are two of us here.A lot of people are out of town.
# 00:12 gRegor` I'm working on caching profile photos from webmentions so I can display them over HTTPS. Otherwise most people's photos would break the page
# 00:13 gRegor` Kartik is working on package management with Python, requiring different packages from Github
# 00:19 KartikPrabhu is cleaning up his code so others can use it and he can stop cowboy-coding everything
# 00:20 mko is continuing to work on his personal website redesign and rearchitecting.
# 00:22 gRegor` Denton (new attendee) couldn't make it due to work schtuff
# 00:24 Mr-Sparker We're just looking over the wiki learning how to get started. Last week we mainly talked about what we want to do with our projects.
# 00:27 Mr-Sparker Cool. Thanks!
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# 00:38 gRegor` One is the loneliest number . . .
# 00:40 bret im super tired actually... working alone for a bit will be nice. shhhh writing hour! :p
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# 01:34 Loqi benwerd: aaronpk left you a message 1 week ago: minor nitpick about the yxyy site... the comment box looks so similar to Disqus for some reason and it freaks me out and makes me not want to use it
# 01:34 Loqi benwerd: KartikPrabhu left you a message on 7/15 at 9:19pm: any reason withknown.com does not list your site as a working example?
# 01:34 Loqi benwerd: gRegor` left you a message 1 hour, 58 minutes ago: You don't accept HEAD requests to werd.io?
# 01:37 mko lol, benwerd. Looks like you've been offline for a while.
# 01:38 kylewm benwerd: a third party developer has built privacy controls that allow private posting across Elgg, Known, and Wordpress
# 01:39 kylewm algorithm is based on private keys, not IndieAuth "it must be said"
# 01:39 kylewm this is mapkyca.com I think (who is not here)
# 01:40 kylewm erinjo: eventually plan to get to "circles" type feature
# 01:41 kylewm super super uber "proof of concept" right now
# 01:41 kylewm looking at analytics, what can we do with the data
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# 01:42 kylewm single biggest that people say in design review is:
# 01:42 kylewm or "why don't you just turn this into a plugin for wordpress?"
# 01:44 kylewm -- discussing with snarfed the possibility of API for automated signup to bridgy
# 01:47 benwerd snarfed talking about the POSSE and in-silo activity actions that you can perform in bridgy - not as visible as he'd like (it is pretty cool)
# 01:47 kylewm KevinMarks: excited about KartikPrabhu's work on marginalia, fragmentions for comments on a specific paragraph
# 01:50 kylewm KevinMarks discussing how to easily select text and turn it into a fragmention link
# 01:51 kylewm copy/paste text to the URL bar, it converts it to a valid encoded url
# 01:51 kylewm KevinMarks thinking about using twitter to make it pretty seamless to annotate a document
# 01:52 kylewm RapGenius is line level, Medium is paragraph level
# 01:53 benwerd (RapGenius is selection-level - could be a whole paragraph, or a partial)
# 01:55 kylewm question: how does this relate to the w3c annotations proposal
# 01:57 kylewm Kevin: annotations may use fuzzy/more lenient matching
# 01:57 kylewm fragmention intended to be simplest thing that could possibly work
# 01:58 kylewm ben: interested in having some UX on his site that asks you what you want to do when you select some text
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# 02:01 kylewm npdoty: as a phd student, mostly working on dissertation, interested in writing in Markdown and publishing something LaTeX-like
# 02:01 kylewm worked with author of Pandoc (tool written in Haskell, can convert any format to... any other format)
# 02:02 kylewm Pandoc can convert citation manager citations to presentable HTML
# 02:03 kylewm A nice way to write academic papers without giving up the web
# 02:04 kylewm snarfed: cranking along steadily on bridgy, infrastructure improvements
# 02:05 kylewm benwerd: we had a user that had 1500 likes/comments on a single post, bridgy handled with aplomb
# 02:07 kylewm discussing bridgy twitter-streaming ... can't use for free above a certain number of users
# 02:07 kylewm the code is still there, ostensibly still works, but is turned off
# 02:08 kylewm snarfed: working on improving the sign-up flow for casual users, and being really aggressive notifying users if it detects anything wrong on their site
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# 02:08 kylewm a challenge to all of you working on your own indieweb sites:
# 02:08 kylewm a reply *should* go to all posts in a reply chain, not just the most recent
# 02:09 kylewm rascul: you can run your own instance on google appengine
# 02:10 kylewm I feel like there might be a self-hosted clone thing?
# 02:10 kylewm -- discussing how twitter intelligently handles long reply chains, including forking replies
# 02:11 kylewm snarfed: got an email from MIT person building their own internal microblogging thing
# 02:11 kylewm can we put 10,000 users on this in a few months?
# 02:12 kylewm the concern is with that many people, will we be stomped
# 02:13 kylewm snarfed's feeling is that we are an ant to them, and it's unlikely they will step on us, and if they do they won't notice :P
# 02:16 kylewm (sorry I don't know your name): working on peer-to-peer communication over wifi ... lower level than web stuff
# 02:18 kylewm don't forget to take a picture for the website, bret
# 02:19 kylewm "freemount is a work in progress and I welcome people to do what they want to with it
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# 02:32 bret how is article differentiated from a node in micropub?
# 02:35 bret trivia is going to start soon suposedly though
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# 03:02 gRegor` Hahaha, donpdonp
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# 03:57 acegiak kylewm: not bad. Just putting some touches on the last.fm plugin I built last night
# 03:58 acegiak gRegor`: I'm just making a shortcode that does an api call and then presents it in a table
# 03:58 gRegor` Ah, the top [whatever] charts?
# 03:58 acegiak gRegor`: yeah, I just wanted to display my top tracks for the week and no other plugins would do it
# 03:59 gRegor` As I get distracted by all the little projects I want to do, heh.
# 03:59 acegiak gRegor`: yeah I was trying to work out if anyone was indie scrobbling
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# 04:24 KartikPrabhu kylewm. npdoty: I have looked at pandoc before and iirc both its Latex and HTML outputs were horrible, particularly HTML
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# 05:09 KartikPrabhu I tried to install ronkyuu from the repo today. and it seems that when setup.py is run, it goes to __init__ because of the import statements in setup.py. Then in __init__ it runs the import statements there and fails because it doesn't find bs4 for example
# 05:11 bear ah - it's because i'm trying to pull the version from the __init__
# 05:11 bear and something in the module is referencing bs4 before setup.py has even installed
# 05:11 bear yea, that's not good - i'll fix now and push
# 05:12 KartikPrabhu no hurry I was just refactoring my code and removing all the symlink type dependencies I have
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# 05:25 gRegor` Have to initiate the caching process manually for now, but it's a start.
# 05:26 gRegor` Wondering if I should indicate the original URL for the photo somehow?
# 05:31 gRegor` Or in an mf2. But it would likely be . . . dun dun dun, invisible data.
# 05:31 KartikPrabhu in fact I would have made the filename as encoded-original-URL.jpg :P
# 05:33 KartikPrabhu yeah so kartikprabhu.com/avatar.jpg in your cache would be gregorlove.com/cache/encoded version-of(kartikprabhu.com/avatar).jpg
# 05:33 gRegor` To obscure it? I don't follow.
# 05:34 KartikPrabhu encoded it to remove the dots and slashes and make it a valid filename
# 05:34 gRegor` I just use the hostname. It's valid.
# 05:35 gRegor` img/cache/kartikprabhu.com.jpg
# 05:35 KartikPrabhu aah ok cool. but if you use the whole URL you have the URL in your cache for future reference
# 05:35 gRegor` Initially I did replace periods with underscores, but though "eh, why?" :)
# 05:35 gRegor` Original author URL is still in the database though
# 05:36 gRegor` Yeah, not clobbering any data. Just adding on.
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# 05:58 gRegor` I have not tackled that yet. :)
# 05:59 gRegor` probably an exception like tw-username.jpg
# 06:01 gRegor` That will actually be the better use case, though, since Twitter profile URLs break a lot
# 06:02 gRegor` Oh, I didn't realize you cached. What's your scheme?
# 06:06 kylewm "great minds think alike" is a really dumb phrase
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# 07:11 acegiak ok so I'm pretty new to contributing to open source projects etc. What's the go if I've made something new that uses stuff written by someone else?
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# 07:11 acegiak So I've written this last.fm plugin which relies heavily on a php class written by someone else on github
# 07:11 acegiak except with one method made public instead of private
# 07:12 acegiak do I fork that first class on github and add my code? Do I reupload the whole lot to github as a new package with the credits to the original guy in the source?
# 07:13 acegiak do I upload as a new bundle and just don't include his code and make the user go get it?
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# 09:23 voxpelli acegiak: sounds like a GitHub fork is the way to go for that
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# 09:39 barnabywalters anything interesting happened while I was away? other than an indiewebcamp and indie tech event?
# 09:40 acegiak barnabywalters: in a mad haze of annoyance at there not being anything that did it I've wrote a last.fm plugin for wordpress
# 09:42 acegiak it lets you query the last.fm api as a shortcode and displays the results in tables
# 09:42 acegiak the coolest bit is the json tree to nested tables function
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# 10:09 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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# 10:26 barnabywalters I deleted my namecoin index (which wasn’t being used anyway) but that wasn’t the bulk of it
# 10:38 jonnybarnes barnabywalters: just curious, how do you actually store the text of your notes (asking cos your recent note has emoji in, which causes hiccups in MySQL)
# 10:38 jonnybarnes why the mysql added a utf-8 charset option that doesn't support all of utf-8 confuses me?
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# 10:44 jonnybarnes worked out that I have 170,000 notes to go before it becomes a problem
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# 13:27 glennjones It still powers the articles on http://glennjones.net it’s a simple microformats API based of an online file system, in this case Google docs, but it could be dropbox or something else
# 13:28 glennjones I drop a HTML document into a folder marked up with h-entry and the code does everything else for me
# 13:29 barnabywalters glennjones: that’s so cool! so archives can be restored by wget’ing a site and dropping it in?
# 13:30 barnabywalters glennjones: it would be interesting to drop an archive of someone else’s indieweb site into your system and see how well the content is preserved
# 13:31 barnabywalters tommorris: also, loving your work on places and reviews — it has inspired me to work on something similar
# 13:32 glennjones barnabywalters: yes I wanted something that was html files and also could be a backup
# 13:32 barnabywalters it would be cool to plot the places on a map on the index page instead of traversing a hierarchy
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# 14:01 bnvk barnabywalters: was good & interesting- definitely lots to chat about offline
# 14:04 barnabywalters tommorris: do you have a screenshot or publicly viewable version of your place publishing UI?
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# 14:09 barnabywalters tommorris: well making it public is not only useful for others but also a good incentive to make it nicer :)
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# 16:08 gRegor` Doesn't load for me, tommorris
# 16:09 gRegor` Ah, it does without https
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# 18:06 gRegor` jonnybarnes: (scrolling back) Apparetly the utf8mb4 mysql character type is the "complete" utf8. It is odd they shipped only 3-byte support in 'utf8' though
# 18:14 snarfed hey benwerd, any chance you have a link to that 1500-response load test post you mentioned yesterday?
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# 19:04 hmans Woohoo, more webmention support on #pants
# 19:06 hmans http://hmans.io/oqq524 has two replies -- coming from the same software, but distributed through webmentions. Webmentioned URLs from non-#pants sites will just be linked plainly (but I'll try to extract h-entry or just OGP as a fallback at some point)
# 19:08 kylewm !tell glennjones thank you for pointing me to store.transmat.io
# 19:08 kylewm no one else knew what i was talking about and i was starting to feel a little crazy ;) this is just ridiculously cool!
# 19:08 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 19:10 hmans Go ahead... it should at least pop up as a link.
# 19:11 mko kylewm glennjones: That is a really cool mechanism for exploring API documentation.
# 19:12 kylewm also a quote from benwerd last night: "I can't believe I'm saying this, but tell me more about pants"
# 19:14 kylewm and I was able to parse your post perfectly for reply-context
# 19:17 hmans I've been horrible about actually describing what #pants is.
# 19:17 hmans (Sorry for typing #pants, I just got used to that at some point, and now call the whole thing 'hashpants'.)
# 19:18 hmans I guess one of the many possible description is: a distributed social blogging aggregator something something.
# 19:18 hmans Gah, it's frustrating, because #pants is really extremely simple.
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# 19:20 kylewm in your mind, how does it differ from pump.io/tent.io?
# 19:21 kylewm I guess those are technically protocols, not platforms
# 19:23 hmans From what I've seen of the two, I'd say a) extreme simplicity and b) salted with blogging
# 19:23 hmans I didn't have much of an agenda when I started out building this, though.
# 19:23 hmans I just wanted to build something that doesn't make me any money and doesn't solve any problems.
# 19:24 hmans One of the things I'm enjoying about it is how you can choose to just use it as a standalone blogging engine, if you like, or even just as an internal system. Some friends of mine just set up an instance as their internal code snippet server.
# 19:26 hmans re "salted with blogging", that's actually wrong. #pants is really blogging with social, not social with blogging.
# 19:26 hmans I'm really just making most of this up as I speak.
# 19:27 kylewm ability to be a standalone thing does differentiate from those two
# 19:28 kylewm I'm psyched about the prospect of software that one techy person could administrate for 5-10 of their less-techy friends
# 19:29 snarfed whenever i read techie or techy, i usually think "tetchy"
# 19:31 hmans Yeah, that's kind of where I want to go with this thing... in my head, at least.
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# 19:40 gRegor` hmans++ for displaying webmention links
# 19:41 gRegor` Nice work, hmans. Have you been able to sign in to the wiki yet? a /pants page is probably in order :)
# 19:41 hmans kylewm already ++'d me, I'm starting to feel bad!
# 19:41 gRegor` (Not to distract you from code :)
# 19:41 hmans gRegor`, I have, I'm just dealing with confidence issues.
# 19:41 gRegor` Take our internet points!
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# 20:01 Jeena hmans is pants a rails implementation of the indiewebstuff?
# 20:01 hmans It didn't really start out as one, to be honest.
# 20:01 hmans Distributed social blogging. I'm just adopting the indieweb stuff now, step by step.
# 20:05 Jeena how is this following stuff implemented, is it a feedreader too?
# 20:05 hmans Yeah, you can subscribe other #pants users (long-term goal is to support non-#pants sites, too) by entering their domain name, and it'll give you a timeline with their posts.
# 20:06 hmans When you follow someone, it'll periodically poll their site (nothing fancier than that)
# 20:06 hmans if they're folllowing you, too, new content will be pushed immediately.
# 20:07 hmans A webmention-like ping request. Very simple.
# 20:08 hmans I'm looking at pubsubhub*, but it seems a bit too powerful for what I'm doing. I will keep re-evaluating, though.
# 20:08 hmans Priority #1 is to keep everything *extremely* simple
# 20:08 hmans Well, if you want to give it a go, I'm happy to set you up with a site... you just need a host that's CNAME'd or A'd to my server.
# 20:08 gRegor` It's nice seeing my in-reply-tos show up on other sites. Mostly I've replied to tweets so far.
# 20:09 hmans (It's open-source, too, but it's too early for me to recommend to people they install it
# 20:10 Jeena sadly I don't quite have the time right now, I'm mostly interested because my own website is a hacked together rails app where I gradually add new indieweb functionality
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# 20:11 Jeena but it got quite complicated to set up so I haven't been able to open source it yet
# 20:14 bret hmans pubsubhubbub is good for broadcasting pings from one person to many followers
# 20:14 Jeena oh nice, you already got a community around the software, very cool
# 20:15 hmans See, the part that I need to figure out is how I can set up everything without relying on eg. superfeedr.com.
# 20:16 hmans So I need to read up on that part of the whole thing very thoroughly.
# 20:16 bret hmans an easy strategy would be to allow the site to specify the PuSH hub
# 20:16 hmans bret, yup -- ideally I'd like to add the hub capabilities to the code itself and allow individual nodes to be configured as hubs.
# 20:16 bret but Julian is a cool guy, i trust him to run a good hub for a while
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# 20:17 Jeena in the long run I even would like to be independent of brid.gy (even sough I love what they have done)
# 20:17 hmans It's not that I don't fear that superfeedr.com is going away or anything -- it's just opposed to what I'm trying to do with #pants.
# 20:17 hmans Same reason why I currently don't want to straight-out add logging in through indieauth.com
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# 20:19 cweiske hmans, there is a difference between indieauth.com and indieauth (protocol)
# 20:20 hmans I may have a go at implementing indieauth (the protocol) at some point, but there's a million more thing that I need to do first.
# 20:20 Jeena is there a reason why you don't show the year of the date for the posts? I kind of like to know if it is a reasent post or if it is already a couple of years old
# 20:20 hmans Jeena, excellent point, thanks. I'll change it.
# 20:20 cweiske I implemented the protocol in my indieauth-to-openid wrapper, but indiewebcamp.com doesn't support non-indieauth.com logins
# 20:21 bret cweiske what is the status on that? isn't aaronpk rewriting indieauth.com?
# 20:22 bret i think to follow a similar model that ownyourgram takes or something
# 20:22 cweiske today I saw the "will be coming soon" message again
# 20:22 bret where it runs tests to verify things before letting people log in vs just erroring out
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# 20:29 snarfed bret: agreed. i made similar ux changes to bridgy recently
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# 20:43 snarfed hey, tommorris! it might be time for my quarterly nudge about your webmention handler :P
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# 21:08 cweiske !tell pfefferle net_webfinger and dependencies are on packagist now and installable via composer (no dev-master needed anymore)
# 21:08 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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# 21:49 snarfed hey kylewm, just fyi since you're starting to work on bridgy publish…when it's running in dev_appserver, i'm going to make its facebook posts only visible to the author
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