#indiewebcamp 2014-07-18

2014-07-18 UTC
crossdiver joined the channel
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mko
Well, I got passport-indieauth fully working and up on NPM. I still put a disclaimer that it's not ready for general use yet, but anyone who wants to use it should be able to fairly easily. I can provide example code if you want to see how it works.
tantek joined the channel
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mko
Welcome back tantek
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tantek
thanks mko!
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tantek
nice disclaimer on that package ;)
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@npm_tweets
passport-indieauth 0.0.1 https://www.npmjs.org/package/passport-indieauth IndieAuth authentication strategy for Passport.
(twitter.com/_/status/489926471163871232)
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tantek
wow that was fast
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tantek
somehow escaped any !tells from the past few days :)
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mko
Definitely.
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GWG
Hi, tantek
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tantek
hello GWG!
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mko
I think everyone knew you weren't going to be around, so they definitely mentioned you in the logs, but probably figured it was safer to not inundate you with !tells.
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tantek
tries to come up with a strategy for reading/processing several days of logs.
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rascul
grep -R beer logs/
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@npm_tweets
passport-indieauth 0.0.2 https://www.npmjs.org/package/passport-indieauth IndieAuth authentication strategy for Passport.
(twitter.com/_/status/489927728465190913)
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mko
Had the wrong git repo (forgot my GitHub username forwarding alias expired).
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tantek
nice post tommorris! http://tommorris.org/posts/9040 and very succinct explanation of the problems with typical geek/dev methodologies.
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tantek.com
created /SHDH (+32) "r"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
created /shdh (+32) "r"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
created /SuperHappyDevHouse (+506) "stub with a short dfn, relevance to IWC"
(view diff)
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tantek
recently I worked on design improvements for displaying my composite stream on my home page - deployed now - see if you notice any difference: http://tantek.com
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tantek
(also, article styling in particular has been updated a bunch, in a several small ways)
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tantek
what is pants?
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tantek
!tell hmans go ahead and create a page indiewebcamp.com/pants that describes the project - even with just a stub like you did in IRC: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-17#t1405627280
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com
deleted /File:20140717-121348.jpg "Spam: spam uploaded by email even. heads-up aaronpk."
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tantek
!tell tommorris https://projectdouglas.org doesn't load for me. just spins and spins.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@aaronpk
Just realized I documented this trip entirely in pictures, no text posts the whole time! #indieweb (http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/07/17/7/indieweb)
(twitter.com/_/status/489935553530302464)
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rascul
this might be something interesting https://ind.ie
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kylewm
tantek: http://projectdouglas.org works, without the s
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@kevinmarks
@aaronpk did you see the debate about kinds of photo post in #indiewebcamp yesterday?
(twitter.com/_/status/489936817139879936)
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tantek
kylewm: huh - I guess I don't get it.
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tantek
I heard rumblings about debates about photo posts recently.
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rascul
https doesn't seem to connect for me
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tantek
didn't know so many people had gotten photo posts working already!
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rascul
https://projectdouglas.org i mean, http:// seems to work fine
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rascul
i guess i am confirming previous findings
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kylewm
I wasn't sure what it had to do with Diaspora
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KartikPrabhu
oh tantek found out about the photo-post debate :P
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KartikPrabhu
s/oh/oh noes
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu meant to say: oh noes tantek found out about the photo-post debate :P
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rascul
there was a debate?
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: haven't read it yet. I'm just assuming it means more people got photo posts working on their sites, and thus /photo#IndieWeb_Examples has more folks listed, right? ;)
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KartikPrabhu
yes... the debate was the age-old "photo with caption" vs "note with photos"
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KartikPrabhu
if and what is the diff
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rascul
is there a time/date i can reference in logs? i might be interested in said debate
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: who is posting in which way?
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: I don't think people know what to call their photo posts
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KartikPrabhu
rascul hunting
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rascul
i'm soon to figure out how to implement photo sutff, ideas can be helpful
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rascul
maybe said debate will give me ideas
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kylewm
is there any etiquette preventing me from adding someone else to /photo IndieWebExamples?
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kylewm
i.e. emmak
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kylewm
and bret
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KartikPrabhu
rascul: starts here... http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-15#t1405445144 beware it is long and winded for a summary see: http://indiewebcamp.com/photos#Discussion
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tantek.com
edited /export (+286) "/* Articles about data export */ add WIRED article about downloading social network archives"
(view diff)
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kylewm.com
edited /photos (+263) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ += me"
(view diff)
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rascul
thanks i will take a look
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KartikPrabhu
goes to do physics stuff. Have a few photos that I can post as "captions with photo" just to create a ruckus
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tantek
caught up with today's IRC archive.
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tantek
kylewm: please add all the indieweb community examples you find!
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bret
I post photos to my site, but it's terribly broken still
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kylewm
bret: points!
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bret
still working on a major fedactor on Gitpub
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bret
refactor. on my phone
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tantek
bret - example URL of one of your earliest photo post?
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bret
pre or post micropub?
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: real published examples are always a plus! as long as you're doing so because you think it's the right way to post
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tantek
bret - either!
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tantek
(earlier better, then perhaps note the first "new" one)
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: of course... the ruckus bit was a wink winky to the last debate
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: I'm going to wait to see the examples collected on the wiki before exploring the debate.
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KartikPrabhu
good idea
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tantek
neat!
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bret
notice the increase in photo posting
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bret
after that
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bret
every time I go to blog I revert to fixing gitpub knowing it will eventually do the same thing for note posting
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tantek
bret what is the name of your posting software that does these photo posts?
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tantek
and are you POSSEing your photos anywhere e.g. Twitter or Flickr?
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bret
ownyourgram is Pessos from ig
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bret
no posse yet
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bret
coming soon
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bret
gitpub handles the posting stuff and micropub
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@temporaryhuman
in tradition of @davewiner & others, next social web #indieweb is already changing everything @aaronpk &co show how http://aaronparecki.com/
(twitter.com/_/status/489941048240906240)
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tantek
!tell snarfed does Bridgy support Flickr comments/favorites backfeeding yet? e.g. from https://www.flickr.com/photos/adactio/14604446101
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm
tantek: no Flickr yet
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tantek
kylewm - issue filed?
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kylewm
just realized you probbably know that and are subtly motivating snarfed :)
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tantek
honestly didn't know, figured he's just ask rather than hunt.
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tantek
s/he's/he'd
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: honestly didn't know, figured he'd just ask rather than hunt.
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kylewm
looks like no issue yet
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tantek
figures snarfed could suddenly implement a bunch of neat stuff without any warning and deploy it live.
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kylewm
there's one for app.net
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bret
I really hope yahoo doesn't ruin flickr
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kylewm
they've owned it for a really long time and not ruined it yet
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tantek
kylewm - given the above adactio example, with actual comments/faves on Flickr, I'd push for Flickr backfeeding to be higher priority than app.net
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bret
well they didn't do anything for most of that time, now it's moving again in disturbing ways (ie removing paid accounts)
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kylewm
totally agree
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bret
flickr > app.net
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kylewm
bret: good point, I had a pro account for a long time, was happy to pay for it
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bret
I let mine expire and the month the literally were like 'nope no more'
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bret
s/the l/they l
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Loqi
bret meant to say: I let mine expire and the month they literally were like 'nope no more'
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tantek.com
edited /photos (+689) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add bret.io, also note adactio added POSSE to Flickr"
(view diff)
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tantek
kylewm - what's the best way to file such an issue? or have you already and I should just +1 it?
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tantek
I'm figuring for adactio's sake at least.
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bret
Tantek do yo append or prepend new posts to your bim files?
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kylewm
tantek: filing right now
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tantek
thanks kylewm++ !
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kylewm
tantek: yw!
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tantek
bret prepend inside the <ol class="hfeed">
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kylewm
adding a new silo to Bridgy is daunting, I must admit...
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tantek.com
edited /Falcon (+121) "/* Storage format */ clarify hentry elements most recently published first inside first hfeed element"
(view diff)
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tantek
ok I think I'm caught up on a "today" in IRC / Recent Changes. Off to take a break with an errand - will be back in an hour or so. thanks bret, kylewm, KartikPrabhu, rascul - chat you soon!
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Loqi
snarfed: tantek left you a message 52 minutes ago: does Bridgy support Flickr comments/favorites backfeeding yet? e.g. from https://www.flickr.com/photos/adactio/14604446101
paulcp, fmarier, squeakytoy2, scor and npdoty joined the channel
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snarfed
(for the logs
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GWG
Hi, snarfed. What's up?
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snarfed
hi GWG! not much
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GWG
I have a table full of hardware to upgrade.
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GWG
So, lots of excitement here
KevinMarks2 and salanto joined the channel
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mko
salanto: pdxbrain.com doesn't seem to have anything on it.
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salanto
home.tylergilles.club
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mko
Again, doesn't seem to be anything.
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salanto
do you have ipv6?
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salanto
its an AAAA record
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mko
Ah. Yeah. Comcast doesn't have IPv6 here.
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salanto
ipv6 is awesome
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mko
But either way, pdxbrain.com doesn't have anything on it.
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salanto
pdxbrain isn't owned by me anymore
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salanto
it expired
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mko
Then you shouldn't be using that as the domain on your GitHub profile.
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salanto
oh it needs to be bidirectional?
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salanto
derp
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mko
Yep
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salanto
ok thanls
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mko
No problemo
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salanto
thanks*
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed, kylewm: is POSSE post discovery not active on G+ ? see first one here: https://www.brid.gy/googleplus/117114060857732496623
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu: g+ is supported. looking
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu: was the syndication link maybe added after the poll?
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KartikPrabhu
unless the poll happened seconds after POSSEing, no
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu: check out the yellow banner on that page. it doesn't know your web site. did you maybe add it to your g+ profile after you signed up for bridgy?
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snarfed
try signing up again
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: I have bridgy backfeeds from other ones on G+ so that can't be the issue me thinks
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KartikPrabhu
not changed G+ info either
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snarfed
backfeed doesn't depend on it
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snarfed
but posse post discovery does
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snarfed
try signing up again
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KartikPrabhu
ahh hmm ok
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KartikPrabhu
then I suppose it doesn't re-poll the one it already failed on
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snarfed
it actually does handle that now thanks to kylewm
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KartikPrabhu
weird just re-signed up and the error is now different because my homepage does not have a webmention link... but the error on the backfeed still stands
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snarfed
yup. looking at the log link, it didn't fetch your h-feed
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snarfed
looking
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: that is strange as my notes link has a rel=feed on it
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu: it's not that. looking.
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snarfed
it'll trigger the next time it sees a new response
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KartikPrabhu
hmm ok cool will keep an eye out
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snarfed
it won't yet do the retroactive fetch for your g+ account because it's never (yet) seen a syndication link for g+, since it didn't know your web site. once it sees one, it'll start rechecking every 2h
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KartikPrabhu
I see. well thanks :)
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kylewm
so you have to post a note, syndicate to g+ and get a comment before it'll re-try this old one :P
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kylewm
(sorry just catching up)
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snarfed
kylewm: np!
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu: thanks for checking, glad that it now has your web site
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KartikPrabhu
oh kylewm thanks for that alert! I'll keep tracking this... :)
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: sure thing. I have enough friends on G+ who do comment on my "non-indieweb" stuff (which is mostyl on Twitter) that I can consistently keep an eye out
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu: looks like it fetched your h-feed. didn't find a syndication link for that one comment, but lots of details in the log: https://www.brid.gy/log?start_time=1405657604&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyKQsSDkdvb2dsZVBsdXNQYWdlIhUxMTcxMTQwNjA4NTc3MzI0OTY2MjMM
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kylewm
it found the syndication ink, but didn't repropagate that Response for some reason
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kylewm
snarfed: does this log show everything for the whole task?
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snarfed
kylewm: should be, yes
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kylewm
something isn't right...
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kylewm
man that quite a loophole :(
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kylewm
because it had never done posse-post-discovery on K's site before, it found that relationship the first time through
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kylewm
and didn't try to repropagate old Responses
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kylewm
totally unrelated to the new refetch behavior
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salanto
Can you send to google+ from wordpress indiweb plugin?
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salanto
indie
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gRegor`
Maybe we can snag some more people, KartikPrabhu ^
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@pitchdesign
@gregorlove oh this is excellent news!! thanks so much for inviting me! I will definitely come to as many as I can.
(twitter.com/_/status/490000060386926593)
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KartikPrabhu
gregor`++ if that works. on new people invitation!
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kylewm
salanto: some background here http://indiewebcamp.com/Google+#POSSE
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gRegor`
conditional-karma
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed kylewm: looking at the logs but seems like some strange stuff in the PPD algo
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salanto
kylewm: thanks
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gRegor`
I think having meetings at Polymathic will help a lot - more word of mouth to Chicago tech people
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KartikPrabhu
salanto: to summarise: G+ is pretty "stuck up" on posting
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KartikPrabhu
salanto: manually I'm guessing. that's how I do it too
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KartikPrabhu
gregor`: I will leave the 'people organisation' to you since I am not into the 'web' circles
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gRegor`
isn't either, really, hah
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KartikPrabhu
more than me! :P
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KartikPrabhu
I know 1 person = gregor`
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gRegor`
Haha
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gRegor`
Really, no other friends with websites or an interest in getting one?
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KartikPrabhu
gregor`: I'm mostly stuck with civilians :P
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kylewm
KartikPrabhu: summary on the bridgy issue is... i didn't anticipate the case where you have previously failed responses when you first sign up
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gRegor`
Hehe
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gRegor`
Time to recruit.
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm: fair enough. sounds complicated anyway. thanks for looking/dealing with this
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gRegor`
"Uncle Tantek wants YOU!"
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KartikPrabhu
gregor`: I doubt my 'civilan' friends know tantek. (I didn't before this). Again doubt if they're even Gen2
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kylewm
KartikPrabhu: if you can construct the permalink page for that response, it'll have the correct in-reply-to now...but i didn't understand g+ ids
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gRegor`
If he were pointing, this would be a great photo for it: http://instagram.com/p/p94HTRA9Qf/
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kylewm
lol, I knew it was going to be that one gRegor`
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KartikPrabhu
judas fu@$%^ priest!
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gRegor`
Lulz
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KartikPrabhu
!tell tantek are you auditioning for the future Cap. indieweb movie? ref: http://instagram.com/p/p94HTRA9Qf/ ;)
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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gRegor`
Night, all
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KartikPrabhu
night gregor
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm: G+ is hard for comments as they don't have a permalink... I'll fiddle around
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salanto
woo webmentions are working. yay
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Loqi
does a happy dance!
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KartikPrabhu
salanto++ for webmentions working!
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Loqi
salanto has 1 karma
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KartikPrabhu
salanto: free internet points ;) also what's your URL?
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salanto
home.tylergillies.club
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salanto
its ipv6 only i don't have a ipv4 ip on that box
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KartikPrabhu
oh man... my whatever doesn't seem to do ipv6 :(
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fr0zen
hey guys, which IRC client you use? Someone already made one?
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salanto
i use adium
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fr0zen
nice! I'm using xchat and used pidgin for a long time
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KartikPrabhu
salanto: how does one go about having ipv6 and not ipv4 ?
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salanto
kartik ipv6 tunnel for a device behind NAT
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KartikPrabhu
fr0zen: I like pidgin as it works with all the things I want on my chat like google, irc and FB (though now I have FB off)
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fr0zen
I was having some thoughts about IRC and how would be nice to manage my stuff through here. Like a personal server, where I would join the channel #finance, #facebook, #messenger, and this channels would have a bot to interact.
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KartikPrabhu
salanto: so it is some special setting on your server?
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fr0zen
#email, etc...
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KartikPrabhu
fr0zen: I don't think I understand
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fr0zen
KartikPrabhu, sorry, I'll try to explain better
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KartikPrabhu
fr0zen: ideally you'd manage your internetz through your domain.
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KartikPrabhu
we're not there yet I suppose
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fr0zen
Yes! I'm thinking in how would be a good way for me to consume my generated content
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salanto
KartikPrabhu: my server routes ipv4 outgoing traffic to an ipv4 server on the public internet and that routes ipv6, incoming is the same deal
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salanto
except reverse
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KartikPrabhu
fr0zen: aah I see. you want all internet activity at one place. maybe IRC. I'd say your domain is a better place for that
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fr0zen
KartikPrabhu, and a IRC server running only for me, with bots to interact with each service that I use could be a good solution, I think
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kylewm
fr0zen: that sounds like bitlbee?
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fr0zen
kylewm, nice! In half!
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KartikPrabhu
salanto: is there an advantage to re-route ipv4 traffic?
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KartikPrabhu
I mean why filter it at all (at this time maybe future is ok)
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salanto
KartikPrabhu: it's routing ipv6 packets inside ipv4 packets
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salanto
so its actually ipv6 traffic
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fr0zen
kylewm, you know hipChat, from Atlassian? Is a webchat similar to IRC that connects with APIs like Basecamp, Gmail, Github
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KartikPrabhu
salanto: oh! so it blocks my ipv4 requests?
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KartikPrabhu
really doesnot understand how this works salanto :P
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kylewm
fr0zen: only that someone mentioned it as an example of an interface that people really love
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salanto
its not blocking anything that server only has an ipv6 ip in the dns
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salanto
your computer looks at the dns and goes, nope, can't route here
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jgee
fr0zen: Would these bots tell you the activity on the sites, or would you instruct them to post?
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fr0zen
kylewm, yeah! It's really nice! I think I'll work in a indie version of it
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fr0zen
jgee, both! like !messages list:unread
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KartikPrabhu
salanto: gotcha! is it hard to make it work with ipv4? if not I would do that as I suspect most traffic is ipv4, specially if Comcast doesn't support it
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salanto
KartikPrabhu: i don't have a public ipv4 for that box it's behind a router
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jgee
fr0zen: Sounds cool, although your site should be the main place for your stuff, like KartikPrabhu said
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salanto
it's things like this that make ipv6 so much better
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fr0zen
jgee, yeah, will be the front door
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fr0zen
to the data managed in the IRC server
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salanto
anyone preorder a gotenna yet?
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fr0zen
like the backend
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KartikPrabhu
salanto: I see. while I agree that moving to ipv6 would be for the better, it would be good to accomodate today's readers like me :)
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salanto
KartikPrabhu: i can only do what i can do
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salanto
my phone is on a public ipv6 address too
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salanto
tmobile has native ipv6
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fr0zen
kylewm, bitlbee is really great! thanks a lot :D
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KartikPrabhu
salanto: yes. didn't mean to pressure you in any way :)
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KartikPrabhu
fr0zen: it would seem best to have and own all the data you need on your website and then push it to other "clients" like IRC bots or something
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KartikPrabhu
thinks having 2 conversations on IRC is harder than on IRLS
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fr0zen
:P
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kylewm
fr0zen: sure! i have heard that bitlbee running on a bouncer like ZNC is really great but haven't tried it m'self
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KartikPrabhu
fr0zen: if I have not said so before, it is very very good to have folks from Brazil and now India (with mayuresh) getting interested in the indieweb
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fr0zen
I want to do this because I want to spend more time using IRC clients without feel like something that drains my productive :P
chrissaad joined the channel
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KartikPrabhu
quite some talented folks in those places that could help a lot here
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fr0zen
KartikPrabhu, yeah, I'm happy that I could find the channel. I ask apologize for some further misunderstandings that my not much eloquent english may create
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KartikPrabhu
fr0zen: yes... good idea. i have been thinking about having a notifications page on my site. Maybe I could write some code to give me 'desktop notifications'
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KartikPrabhu
fr0zen: not to worry about the English. I had a a hard time with people at cafes understanding my English when I moved to the US. actually kylewm thinks I have a British accent :P
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kylewm
lol, only your spelling has a british accent
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm: that is true. because of my British english learnings in India
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KartikPrabhu
in fact i spent the afternoon fixing American vs British spellings in my physics paper!
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Loqi
tantek: KartikPrabhu left you a message 22 minutes ago: are you auditioning for the future Cap. indieweb movie? ref: http://instagram.com/p/p94HTRA9Qf/ ;)
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KartikPrabhu
fr0zen: maybe get your friends who can code (or are otherwise interested in owning their own web content) and have a meeting - Homebrew Website Club in Brazil!
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KartikPrabhu
is still LOLing at that ^^
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salanto
99% of the time american spelling is just a dirty bastardisation of british spelling by illiterate americans that happened to catch of because memetics
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salanto
catch on*
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KartikPrabhu
salanto: very gald you you used the correct form of 'bastardisation'... ;) #irony
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salanto
like skeptical. someone like s-sk-skeptical. must be with a k because it sounds like k
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kylewm
we change esses to zees because they are cooler and more futuristic
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salanto
that is actually a halfway awesome argument
#
snarfed
salanto: you're tyler gillies, right?
#
salanto
snarfed: ive been called worse
#
snarfed
re your g+ posse question, KartikPrabhu (or whoever) was right, i do it manually
#
fr0zen
KartikPrabhu, yeah will do it! I'm trying to create a hackerspace here in my town.
#
salanto
snarfed: awesome thanks
#
salanto
hey i got ipv4 working
#
fr0zen
KartikPrabhu, indieweb website helps a lot to spread the world of freedom here!
#
salanto
KartikPrabhu: can you get to home.tylergillies.com now?
#
fr0zen
because the idea is much more well structured than what I was trying to explain
#
fr0zen
s/world/word
#
salanto
fr0zen: i was just telling someone tonight that indie web is essentially a freedom movement, people don't realise they are prisoners
#
KartikPrabhu
fr0zein: yes the website is pretty useful. Would be great to have feedback about how beginners perceive it
#
fr0zen
salanto, they think that is no problem if google knows everything about them, because they aren't doing nothing illegal
#
KartikPrabhu
fr0zen, salanto: If I may be so indulgent: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/indieweb-love-blog here is my attempt at explaining indieweb
#
salanto
derp
#
fr0zen
this is so stupid, but I used to think that way too
#
salanto
home.tylergillies.club not .com
#
salanto
.club was on sale for 3 bucks
#
salanto
i'm cheap
#
fr0zen
KartikPrabhu, nice, I'll read and also forward to a friend that don't know much :D
#
salanto
KartikPrabhu: what blog platform is that? looks perty
#
KartikPrabhu
salanto: your home URL gives error at the moment
#
KartikPrabhu
salanto: it is not a platform. compeletly custom CSS
#
salanto
KartikPrabhu: nice
#
cweiske
Warning: mysql_connect(): Host 'c-50-137-147-179.hsd1.or.comcast.net' is not allowed to connect to this MySQL server in /Library/WebServer/Documents/wp-includes/wp-db.php on line 1372
#
KartikPrabhu
a major reason I got my own domain was to move away from the design resctrictions of platforms
#
KartikPrabhu
so I cam here from a Gen2 perspective
#
KartikPrabhu
s/cam/came
#
Loqi
KartikPrabhu meant to say: so I came here from a Gen2 perspective
#
salanto
oh because my mysql is also on ipv6
#
salanto
crap
#
KartikPrabhu
salanto: same error as cweiske
#
Loqi
hehe
#
KartikPrabhu
not funny Loqi
#
Loqi
yeah!
#
salanto
KartikPrabhu: the plain language is very approachable by laypeople
#
KartikPrabhu
salanto: thanks. that was the intention. glad it works :)
#
KartikPrabhu
fr0zen salanto: here is a list of articles about the Indieweb on the wiki if you wnat to read more perspectives: http://indiewebcamp.com/posts_about_the_indieweb
#
fr0zen
salanto, your nick has my name :P
#
fr0zen
alan
#
salanto
KartikPrabhu: ok think i fixed DB error
#
salanto
fr0zen: eh>
#
salanto
?
#
KartikPrabhu
salanto: neat works now!
#
salanto
woohoo
#
KartikPrabhu
salanto++ for making ipv4 work
#
salanto
ironic as that is
#
salanto
usually the other way around
#
KartikPrabhu
salanto: how do I check if my website works over ipv6?
#
KartikPrabhu
salanto: also you should add your experience to this page on the wiki so others (like me) will learn more: http://indiewebcamp.com/IPv6
#
salanto
KartikPrabhu: from command like type dig any example.com
#
KartikPrabhu
I see. will attempt
#
salanto
if it has a AAAA line it will route from ipv6
#
salanto
example.com being your website
#
KartikPrabhu
hmm seems to have worked. got a response :)
snarfed joined the channel
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KartikPrabhu
fr0zen: did you manage to get a domain?
#
home.tylergillies.club
created /Talk:IPv6 (+307) "Created page with "I would actually argue that the primary advantage of ipv6 in this space isn't the amount of available addresses (that is important). I would argue that the most primary advantage...""
(view diff)
#
fr0zen
KartikPrabhu, not yet, but I think next week I'll be able to issue a new credit card - and have credit, LOL.
#
tantek
salanto - we don't bother using Talk: pages
#
tantek
and instead just documented opinions right there on the pages themselves
#
tantek
s/documented/document
#
Loqi
tantek meant to say: and instead just document opinions right there on the pages themselves
#
KartikPrabhu
fr0zen: ah I see. would like to see your setup. I'm very interested in how different people design their sites :)
#
salanto
tantek: got it. thanks. im used to the fascism that is wikipedia
#
KartikPrabhu
salanto: yeha what tantek saud :)
#
tantek
salanto - no problem, I hear you
#
tantek
we're also not as deletionist as Wikipedia - as long as a subject has demonstrable relevance to the indieweb, it's worth having a page on it
#
KartikPrabhu
salanto: sometimes people sign their names/URls if it is a not very consensus based opinion
#
home.tylergillies.club
edited /IPv6 (+310) "/* Why? */"
(view diff)
#
salanto
Ok
#
fr0zen
KartikPrabhu, nice, I'll start think about it :)
#
home.tylergillies.club
edited /IPv6 (+26) "/* Why? */"
(view diff)
#
KartikPrabhu
fr0zen: all the best. curious to see what you setup :)
#
fr0zen
:)
#
fr0zen
I'm going. Thanks for the good time.
#
@rupertmurdoch
Sorry can't buy Trib group or LA Times - cross-ownership laws from another age still in place.
(twitter.com/_/status/489976758507405312)
#
fr0zen
good night
#
Loqi
buenas noches
#
KartikPrabhu
does Loqi not speak Portuguese?
#
home.tylergillies.club
edited /IPv6 (+328) "/* How */"
(view diff)
#
mko
salanto: The only thing I'll say about IPv6 is that anyone who is hosting a site should probably continue providing IPv4 access, even if they provide preference for IPv6, as the majority of users are not given IPv6 access from their ISPs, and the average user is not technically savvy enough to use an IPv6 tunnel (or are untrusting of most tunnel providers).
#
salanto
mko: it's highly possible to be in a situation in which ipv6 is the *only* way you can provide access to your service because of NAT routing issues
#
KartikPrabhu
mko: I think we already convinced salanto to add ipv4 support (which he successfully did!) but that is a concern that should be added to /ipv6
#
salanto
otherwise every computer would be indie web and it would just be called the web
#
KartikPrabhu
salanto: I think the indieweb should just be called the web already
#
salanto
it will once ipv6 makes it possible to route without the headache of NAT
#
mko
salanto: The situations wherein you can only provide IPv6 access are a vast minority unless you're self-hosting. Almost no hosting providers and server providers are IPv6-only.
#
salanto
i think we are at 20% global native adoption and that is growing exponentially year over year
#
KartikPrabhu
looks up NAT because he doesn't know what that is!
#
KartikPrabhu
oops my n00bity is showing
#
KartikPrabhu
googles and learns
#
mko
KartikPrabhu++
#
salanto
mko: both my home isp and my phone carrier have native isp i would strongly argue that assertion
#
Loqi
KartikPrabhu has 50 karma
#
salanto
s/native isp/native ipv6/
#
Loqi
salanto meant to say: mko: both my home isp and my phone carrier have native ipv6 i would strongly argue that assertion
#
KartikPrabhu
salanto: one example does not constitute a majority
#
salanto
only really that box didn't have ipv6 was because of router hardware
#
salanto
i have comcast
#
salanto
and tmobile
#
salanto
i hear they have lots of customers
#
KartikPrabhu
oh! hmm me too weird
#
salanto
but might just be me
#
mko
I have Comcast as well, and they only offer it in 6 states natively.
#
salanto
6 states? meh thats unfortunate
#
salanto
move? ;)
#
mko
My bad. Not 6. 10 as of this year.
#
mko
6 was the year before.
#
KartikPrabhu
salanto: see... that is only counting the US. I doubt outside US and Europe if anyone has ipv6 support
#
KartikPrabhu
which would exclude ?0.5 percent of the people on earth
#
Loqi
KartikPrabhu meant to say: which would exclude >0.5 percent of the people on earth
#
mko
KartikPrabhu: Actually, I think Europe has better IPv6 support because they are depleting more of their IPv4 addresses than we are.
#
cweiske
haha. no
#
mko
As of 2014, native IPv6 availability is only 4% worldwide.
#
KartikPrabhu
mko: yes I was thinking population-wise. I hihgly doubt if China and India have ipv6
#
mko
assuming Google users are a representative sample
#
KartikPrabhu
mko: numbers. good.
jsilvestre joined the channel
#
mko
And I was wrong. Only Belgium has higher deployment than the US.
#
mko
Oh. And Germany. They squeaked past by 0.4%
#
mko
In the US, it's less than 9%.
#
KartikPrabhu
even restricting to the US 9% is a small number. considering your site is to be on the **World** Wide Web and all
#
mko
Indeed. Anyway, I am glad to see that you added IPv4 support, salanto. Improving access for everyone is important.
#
KartikPrabhu
as tommorris said this morning: “This kind of attitude makes the perfect the enemy of the good.”
#
salanto
doh lol same link
#
KartikPrabhu
salanto: in any case. you're using Wordpress I see. Any plans to get notes/tweets and POSSE working?
#
salanto
KartikPrabhu: working on that right now
#
KartikPrabhu
salanto: sweet!
#
salanto
just installed jetpack plugin
#
mko
salanto++ for bringing the topic of IPv6 up and getting IPv4 working
#
Loqi
salanto has 2 karma
#
salanto
hopefully in the next 5 years everyone is ipv6 it's been long enough
#
salanto
the spec is like 15 years old for crying out loud
#
tantek.com
edited /IPv6 (+7) "dfn"
(view diff)
#
tantek
what is IPv6
#
Loqi
IPv6 is version 6 of the Internet Protocol http://indiewebcamp.com/IPv6
#
KartikPrabhu
tantek: your unicode is showing
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: where?
#
KartikPrabhu
in front of the what in "what is IPv6" above
#
KartikPrabhu
#irrelevant
#
tantek
I don't have any unicode there
#
KartikPrabhu
weird.... bad Pidgin
#
KartikPrabhu
in any case. tantek: any news/update from YaYY or YxYY ?
#
Loqi
giggles
caseorganic joined the channel
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: there was a good indieweb discussion session 11am-?? (1.5-2hrs?) in the pool on Saturday
#
KartikPrabhu
ha! indiepool!
#
KartikPrabhu
very nice. new developments?
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: and there was a good indieweb hack session 12:00-14:30~ in the bar/lounge around various tables on Sunday
#
tantek
Yes! Two things personally. 1. I got help from a senioer UX designer with the presentation of my composite stream and blog posts. Mostly deployed then, and finished today.
#
tantek
check out the styling of the stream of posts on http://tantek.com/
#
tantek
especially between them :)
#
tantek
and 2. after being frustrated by not having local dev setup, and having failed in the past even with adactio's help, I complained to aaronpk, and he got it working for me, and is documenting setup instructions.
#
mko
You added a separator! Congratulations! :-)
#
tantek
so now I can use tantek(.)dev locally instead of having to test/deploy everything live
#
mko
Looks very good, tantek
#
tantek
mko - yes that's the biggest obvious change, some spacing tweaks too
#
mko
Yeah. You have much better vertical rhythm now.
#
tantek
overall, making the stream more readable/skimmable, especially on mobile
#
tantek
mko - cool - that was exactly the goal
#
salanto
meh jetpack posts to circles not to public stream
#
KartikPrabhu
tantek: yes! I observed some spacing changes. nice! I am a big fan of white space as is amply evident from my site :P
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: I am a big fan of just enough whitespace. I am a fan of information density per Tufte.
#
mko
Tufte++
#
Loqi
Tufte has 1 karma
#
tantek
too much whitespace and stuff just feels disconnected / sloppy
#
KartikPrabhu
heh! stop subtly complaining about my site ;)
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: not a personal/specific reference!
#
KartikPrabhu
of course jk! :P
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: also my article styling has been tweaked a bunch, the typography / spacing
#
KartikPrabhu
tantek: so you just used to code on your live site?
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: yeah - everything pretty much iterated live
#
mko
The article styling is much better.
#
KartikPrabhu
that is beyond cowboy-coding... outlaw-coding?
#
tantek
thank mko!
#
tantek
glad it's noticeable. had to save a before/after screenshot myself to really see the magnitude of the changes.
#
KartikPrabhu
tantek: yes! much better line-spacing now
#
mko
I still wish there was a little extra whitespace on the bottom of the page so the URL input elements wouldn't be so close to the chrome of the browser.
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: I still try to make incremental improvements/fixes/changes to my site and essentially practice continuous deployment
#
mko
Otherwise, I have no complaints about your site
#
tantek
mko - agreed about the footer area - still needs work
#
mko
I have a zillion complaints with mine. heh
#
mko
My task list just keeps getting bigger
#
tantek
I'm not entirely happy with the block of form elements and that UI in general.
#
tantek
mko - heh - same here - I just keep mine public in case it helps others: http://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#Working_On
#
KartikPrabhu
tantek: curious as to why you felt the need to have the permalink in a form element at the bottom ?
#
mko
Yeah. Once I get v1 out, I'll be doing the same thing.
#
mko
KartikPrabhu: That's by far the most usable mechanism for sharing and selecting a URL for posting on various social sites
#
KartikPrabhu
mko: more than the browser address bar?
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: because people often want to link to something after finishing reading it, and the permalink for copy/pasting is an alternative to having a zillion NASCAR share buttons.
#
tantek
right, what mko said. ok clearly, I'm too slow to continue tonight so I'll sign off - as I should anyway - sleepy :)
#
mko
KartikPrabhu: Absolutely. The browser address bar doesn't reflect Short URLs, for example, which would be more valuable to share on social networks.
#
mko
G'night tantek
#
KartikPrabhu
tantek: gnight!
#
KartikPrabhu
mko: short URLs I agree. but iirc tantek only has the full URL in the form field
#
tantek
mko, KartikPrabhu re: the URL text fields, it's part of this line of thinking: http://indiewebcamp.com/citation#User_Interface
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: it makes sense to provide just the URL as a complement to the full citation embedding markup
#
mko
Oh. I used to have that at the bottom of my site.
#
mko
Not sure when I removed it.
#
mko
Oops.
#
KartikPrabhu
mko: I have it too... just asking for others motivations :)
#
KartikPrabhu
tantek: yes. I actually like the full citation markup
#
KartikPrabhu
tantek: go to bed young man!
#
tantek
mko, really enjoying https://mowens.com/articles/design-prototyping-101 - will have to have a more thorough read of it tomorrow.
#
mko
That's such an old article. Jan 2013. :)
#
mko
It was part of the primer for when I was teaching design prototyping at PariSoma
#
mko
But thank you for the kind words
#
KartikPrabhu
put it in the "to read" tab group also :)
#
tantek
needs to take screenshots of his new composite stream styling and upload them to http://indiewebcamp.com/composite_stream
#
tantek
but that's for tomorrow
squeakytoy and pfefferle joined the channel
#
Loqi
pfefferle: cweiske left you a message 9 hours, 58 minutes ago: net_webfinger and dependencies are on packagist now and installable via composer (no dev-master needed anymore)
#
pfefferle
good morning
#
pfefferle
cweiske nice! will test it later today!
KevinMarks2 and wolftune joined the channel
#
@nodenpm
indie (0.0.1): https://www.npmjs.org/package/indie Node.js Framwork for constructing IndieWeb-compatible apps and websites
(twitter.com/_/status/490036586869166080)
#
mko
Note: Indie.js is what I settled on for the naming convention of my framework. The NPM publish was just to secure the namespace "indie"
#
@npm_tweets
indie 0.0.1 https://www.npmjs.org/package/indie Node.js Framwork for constructing IndieWeb-compatible apps and websites
(twitter.com/_/status/490037235216310272)
theglitchmob joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu
mko: is there some namespace thingy going on with NPM>
#
mko
What do you mean?
#
mko
I just wanted to go ahead and publish "indie" so the module's usage pattern would be "require('indie');"
#
KartikPrabhu
mko: oh ok. I thought there was some namspace battle in NPM.
#
mko
Not that I know of.
#
mko
I just like brandable things, and I had finally decided what I was going to name my framework. Simple, straightforward, and easy to remember: http://indiejs.com
#
mko
Decided to take a break from working on the framework itself to get a little bit admin done around the framework's existence.
BjornW joined the channel
#
salanto
aaronpk: Fatal error: Call to undefined function db\init() in /web/sites/aaronparecki.com/p3k/php/includes/inc.php on line 15
sankha93 joined the channel
#
mko
Hitting the hay as well. G'night all
#
salanto
Night
#
salanto
Im close behind you
Sebastien-L, petermolnar, squeakytoy2, krendil and glennjones joined the channel
#
Loqi
glennjones: kylewm left you a message on 7/17 at 12:08pm: thank you for pointing me to store.transmat.io
KevinMarks2 joined the channel
#
acegiak
anyone know why when I use the 1.1 twitter api my hashtags don't hashtag?
#
acegiak
like, they don't become links?
theglitchmob, squeakytoy2, Garbee, barnabywalters, glennjones and adactio joined the channel
squeakytoy2, scor, Sebastien-L, pfefferle, cweiske and theglitchmob joined the channel
EchoLynx, bnvk, theglitchmob and chrissaad joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme
finally getting close to having free time again and being able to work on my side projects again
theglitchmob, gRegor`, brianloveswords, KevinMarks2, brianlov_ and wolftune joined the channel
#
kylewm.com
edited /User:Kylewm.com (-47) "/* personal site */ add PESOS button"
(view diff)
tvfdd and pfefferle_ joined the channel
#
@henryfaber
Indieweb pop homebrew friends club.
(twitter.com/_/status/490154357841620992)
#
GWG
Oh, barnabywalters is back. Nice to see people after a hiatus.
#
barnabywalters
greetings GWG!
pfefferle_ joined the channel
#
GWG
barnabywalters: Been to Germany?
#
GWG
I haven't mastered the art of reading other indieweb sites.
#
GWG
I could always go back to RSS
#
GWG
thought reading indie sites was webcamp worthy
#
GWG
pfefferle: Installed your plugin, but can't think of anything to say
#
GWG
pfefferle: Isn't that always the problem?
#
GWG
At least I think I finally got the markup right on my testing site. Getting closer to deployment of the new theme and its child that looks like the old one
#
pfefferle
GWG that is the problem why my last entry is from february ;)
#
GWG
pfefferle: Ironic, considering we are in a place for people who want to develop ways to post their own content
#
pfefferle
to much time to build the tools, that we can’t really use them :D
#
GWG
pfefferle: It's an interesting comment, isn't it?
#
pfefferle
GWG ???
#
GWG
That the goal is to create content, but we are too often creating tools to create the content, not content.
#
barnabywalters
GWG: not necesarily — many indieweb people post content very regularly
#
barnabywalters
and I can’t think of anyone who only builds tools and never creates any content
#
GWG
barnabywalters: Nothing is absolute
#
barnabywalters
GWG: ha ha, nothing is absolute except that “nothing is absolute”, and therefore at least one thing is absolute :)
#
barnabywalters
just like “everything changes”
#
GWG
barnabywalters: Things are in a constant state of change
gRegor` and paulcp joined the channel
#
jonnybarnes
gRegor`: yup, I've set up utf8mb4 so all works for me, why thet didn't just update utf8 though? (I imagine backwards-compatibility reasons)
kylewm joined the channel
#
gRegor`
They should rename it to utf8ish
androtest, androte52, snarfed, jsilvestre and cweiske joined the channel
#
@zigdon
Successfully switched from MyOpenId to https://indieauth.com/ for my ID. Wasn't that hard, even.
(twitter.com/_/status/490175538892242945)
brianloveswords joined the channel
#
gRegor`
I can't even find a link to indieauth.com/documentation on the site? ^
#
mko
Some people consider /documentation to be a "required" url for development projects. They're wrong.
#
kylewm
never heard of such a thing
#
mko
One of the developers a few jobs back was adamant we included /documentation on our API site. Said it was "common convention."
petermolnar1 and emmak joined the channel
#
gRegor`
"required" URLs seems pretty silly.
#
kylewm
Sometimes I have to remind myself that even though Loqi pulls tweets in here, they weren't necessarily directed at us :)
#
gRegor`
rel=documentation might be a better convention. Let people do what they want with their own URLs. :)
#
mko
Shhhhh, kylewm
#
gRegor`
All tweets are about me.
#
gRegor`
Funny, though, the link apparently used to be /#documentation. I fixed it on the wiki recently. http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=IndieAuth&diff=prev&oldid=11042
#
mko
Maybe he found a link from outside our ecosystem that got to /documentation instead of /#documentation then?
paulcp and wolftune joined the channel
#
gRegor`
Yeah, I thought about replying, but if it's outside the wiki /indieauth.com, probably not worth chasing down broken incoming links.
#
snarfed
finds nothing
#
kylewm
so why do shortcuts on my phone (Samsung S3) look the worst out of all the examples on /icon e.g. https://www.dropbox.com/s/u1ggmljkc1ox33m/2014-07-18%2016.40.24.png
#
gRegor`
I dunno, that "g" looks pretty good :)
#
gRegor`
Know why some have the orange flag behind it?
#
mko
Those probably don't have <meta name="mobile-web-app-capable" content="yes"> on them
#
mko
Nope. That's not it. Tantek has that for sure.
#
kylewm
and my site doesn't have that
#
snarfed
i've seen this before. it's related to irc karma
#
kylewm
strange irony if Android depends on apple-shortcut-icon
#
snarfed
if you're within a narrow band, i think 30-50, you get the big picture. otherwise you get the flag.
#
gRegor`
My site doesn't have that either.
#
kylewm
apple-touch-icon*
#
gRegor`
Hahaha, snarfed
#
kylewm
lol snarfed
#
Loqi
hehe
#
gRegor`
I definitely shouldn't have a big icon, then.
#
snarfed
see loqi knows
#
Loqi
dude
#
kylewm
adactio definitely looks the best out of all of them
arlen joined the channel
#
gRegor`
I've only seen him in videos, but he looks so different to me in that icon
dariusdunlap and tantek joined the channel
#
tantek
good morning #indiewebcamp!
#
snarfed
morning tantek!
#
tantek
catches up on logs from this morning.
#
tantek
mko++ for indiejs.com!
#
Loqi
mko has 4 karma
#
tantek
and welcome back barnabywalters!
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tantek
mko re: anyone's claim of "common convention" - easy response: citation needed.
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tantek
!tell gRegor` we don't need rel=documentation, we have rel=help already (for many years from the HTML spec) and that's good enough to point to documentation or any other help about the current page.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gRegor`
Cool, didn't know that
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Loqi
gRegor`: tantek left you a message 27 seconds ago: we don't need rel=documentation, we have rel=help already (for many years from the HTML spec) and that's good enough to point to documentation or any other help about the current page.
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gRegor`
Also, welcome back, tantek.
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snarfed
tantek: looking forward to your thoughts on http://indiewebcamp.com/h-card#Issues
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tantek
kylewm - fascinating screenshot! could you upload that to the wiki so we can reference on http://indiewebcamp.com/icon#Android_browser_comparisons
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bret
!tell aaronpk I have been reading your site and caseorganic's site for the last few months in a feed reader comparing your atom feed to the hfeed that Barnaby built
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek
thanks gRegor` snarfed!
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bret
!tell aaronpk the h feed is consistently more interesting and useful as it contains the actual photos of the post and gives a better feed with better summaries
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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bret
so barnabywalters++ on that
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tantek
!tell kylewm which browser did you use to "Add to Home Screen" ? Android default? Chrome? Firefox? And what version? And what version of Android OS? re: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-18#t1405704123
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm
tantek: adding the screenshot, I was just going to ask about that
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Loqi
kylewm: tantek left you a message 50 seconds ago: which browser did you use to "Add to Home Screen" ? Android default? Chrome? Firefox? And what version? And what version of Android OS? re: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-18#t1405704123
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kylewm
the default browser on Android is Chrome right? /dumbquestion
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mko
No--it's "Browser"
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Loqi
No has -1 karma
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tantek
kylewm: depends!
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kylewm
it's just called "Internet" on mine...
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snarfed
tantek is right
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snarfed
kylewm: that's probably not chrome then
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tantek
kylewm: we just call that "default android browser"
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gRegor`
Chrome is the default at least as of Android 4.x (not sure which version specifically)
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gRegor`
I will run some bookmark tests + screenshots with 4.4.4 later
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snarfed
gRegor`: with google play services yes, afaik, but not without
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kylewm.com
uploaded /File:kylewm-android-icons.png "show bad icon support on S3/default browser"
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snarfed
e.g. i don't think bare AOSP ships w/chrome
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gRegor`
I'm also on Nexus 4, so stock Android. Maybe the other carriers do something different (probably)
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kylewm.com
edited /icon (+183) "/* Android browser comparisons */ added my screenshot"
(view diff)
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kylewm.com
edited /icon (+11) "/* Android browser comparisons */ oh god, image was too big!"
(view diff)
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gRegor`
Hmm. I don't have "Browser" under "All Apps" in settings, snarfed.
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tantek.com
moved /File:kylewm-android-icons.png to /File:kylewm-android-icons-2014-07-18.png "screenshots are extremely date sensitive so let's be sure to capture that in the name"
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snarfed
gRegor`: sure. n4 has google play services and ships with most google apps. there are a handful of "levels" of "android," and yours is near the top, minus manufacturer/carrier bloatware
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snarfed
as another example, kindle fire and fire phone are android, but don't ship with either AOSP browser or chrome
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tantek
yay more browsers! :)
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tantek
pats Loqi on the head.
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Loqi
who, me?
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snarfed
yeah. plenty of places to debate fragmentation. i should back away slowly :P
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tantek.com
edited /icon (+11) "update img embed"
(view diff)
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gRegor`
Interesting. I thought for sure Google would make Chrome part of the core apps that other Android variants couldn't uninstall.
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tantek
snarfed, I'd rather debate fragmentions ;)
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tantek
gRegor`: especially since Google has hired so many Microsoft folks. ;)
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snarfed
gRegor`: kind of the opposite. unbundling lets them control distribution, update schedule, etc better, and use apps/services as a carrot w/manufacturers and carriers
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mko
snarfed: I forgot about Kindle Fire. Silk. What a ridiculously bad browser. :-\
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snarfed
there's no way for them to force apps or services, since android is open source, so it's more a carrot/stick model
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gRegor`
I think on a previous version (N1) I couldn't uninstall Facebook entirely, for example.
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tantek.com
edited /icon (+25) "/* Android browser comparisons */ clarify using the default Android browser to add to home screen (or whatever the action is called in that UI)"
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snarfed
gRegor`: yeah, manufacturers can still choose their base image apps. you see that with play services, "pure google experience," and true forks like amazon's and all the chinese ones (e.g. xiaomi)
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snarfed
try to uninstall currents on your n4, for example :/
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tantek
kylewm do you have Firefox or Chrome for Android installed? Curious what those look like when you "Add to Home Screen" from them.
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kylewm
tantek: no, I'll install FF
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snarfed
tells himself to take it to #indiechat
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gRegor`
I was about to say, haha
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gRegor`
When I add adactio to my homescreen, I get his astronaut icon, not the one kylewm's screenshot does. Interesting.
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gRegor`
Was the icon added recently or a while ago, kylewm?
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kylewm
gRegor`: just this morning
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gRegor`
Interesting. Was it adactio.com or a subpage?
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gRegor`
I noticed some appear to be bookmarks to the notes stream vs. homepage. Not that it should matter...
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kylewm
just adactio.com
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tantek.com
edited /events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (+125) "Minneapolis location TBD etc."
(view diff)
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tantek
!tell aaronpk this is a freebie. welcome back. and take your time with all the tells. people are patient. it's all good. :)
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gregorlove.com
edited /icon (+123) "/* Android browser comparisons */ my screenshot placeholder"
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gregorlove.com
edited /icon (+6) "/* Android browser comparisons */"
(view diff)
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GWG
tantek: I have Firefox installed, along with Dolphin.
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gRegor`
Screenshot up: http://indiewebcamp.com/icon#Android_browser_comparisons Odd that it didn't find barnaby's
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gRegor`
!tell caseorganic Your shortcut icon is returning 404: http://caseorganic.com/images/caseorganic-256.jpg
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell her that when I see her next
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gregorlove.com
edited /icon (+162) "/* Android browser comparisons */"
(view diff)
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gRegor`
I'm wondering if we should move "What" to the top on the individual HWC event pages.
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gRegor`
When is most useful to those that already know about HWC, but sometimes I link new people to the event page and it would be nice if they saw "What" first
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mko
Wow. Facebook's App Permissions Approved Items system is really involved and prohibitive now. In order to get automatic publishing rights or access to almost any information, you have to individually select just about every permission separately and provide at least 4 screenshots of how you're going to be using Facebook.
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kylewm
mko: snarfed went through that with Bridgy recently, huge hassle
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kylewm
facebook--
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Loqi
facebook has -6 karma
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mko
Seriously.
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mko
facebook--
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Loqi
facebook has -7 karma
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gRegor`
I dunno, I think making it harder for FB apps to do stuff with information is good. I loathe adding apps on FB because never know what they're going to do.
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kylewm
apologist!
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gRegor`
Haha
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gRegor`
Dude, I hate FB.
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gRegor`
Another indieweb plus. Easy to share just the information you want :)
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mko
Do you remember how long snarfed waited for his submission review?
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snarfed
mko: under a day iirc. looking now
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mko
Cool, thanks, snarfed.
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snarfed
but fwiw i didn't actually use/need the approval from it
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mko
Even for publishing a post?
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mko
I thought you needed publish_actions to do that.
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mko
Or to POSSE Event RSVPs?
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Loqi
caseorganic: gRegor` left you a message 1 hour, 20 minutes ago: Your shortcut icon is returning 404: http://caseorganic.com/images/caseorganic-256.jpg
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: kylewm: why did bridgy pick up this response and retweet: https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/449032538476929024 ?
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snarfed
oh sure, but that was all doable before the v2 api
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@kartik_prabhu
The #indieweb or: how I learnt to stop worrying and love the #blog. Comes about a year since I went indie (https://kartikprabhu.com/article/indieweb-love-blog)
(twitter.com/_/status/449032538476929024)
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mko
I thought you'd need rsvp_event for that..
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snarfed
honestly i'm not sure if i'm using the v2 api yet, which afaik is what needs the new approval process
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snarfed
or if i'm grandfathered in, or what. meh
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mko
Oh. Gotcha. My other account is grandfathered in, I think. It has a ton more permissions approved.
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kylewm
yeah, iirc we thought permissions were the problem with getting a 500 response on Publish
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kylewm
but it ended up being related to custom actions?
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KartikPrabhu
boo I meant why did bridgy not pickup that reply and retweet
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snarfed
kylewm++ yup
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Loqi
kylewm has 29 karma
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snarfed
the "See Original" action link
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu: it may be too old
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kylewm
I hope no one ever looks up what % of my karma came from snarfed
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kylewm
I suspect 90%? :P
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: oh so that does happen?
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu: yeah. https://www.brid.gy/about#missing , search for "50"
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snarfed
(todo, add fragmentions to that page)
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: yes! get with the times man!
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KartikPrabhu
so if i manually construct the URLs it would works?
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu: sure!
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: cool! will do then :)
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: curious as to how bridgy has the retweets as a URL but not polled and pinged it? Did it construct the page when I manually put the URL in the browser?
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snarfed
yup, the latter. the source urls all use the silo apis to fetch data directly
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KartikPrabhu
aah so each page is dynamically generated everytime? or does it store/cache them?
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snarfed
every time :/
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KartikPrabhu
hmmm... well that would be easiest to make I suppose. thanks :)
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: does the API not grant access to the 'notifications' in twitter?
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu: not that i know of. https://dev.twitter.com/docs/api/1.1
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@Jon__Stone
@temporaryhuman if I hashtag indieweb it somehow overtakes twitter I don't get it thx
(twitter.com/_/status/490244813842022400)
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@Jon__Stone
@temporaryhuman is indieweb the notdotcom I've always asked for
(twitter.com/_/status/490245506925604864)
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tantek.com
edited /Events (+31) "move 07-16 to recent, hilite next IWC"
(view diff)
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tantek
snarfed, re: /h-card#Issues - the rephrasing as pure user features section is a better focus, going to start there
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snarfed
tantek: great!
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tantek
these seem more like issues with /posts than h-card
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snarfed
the second one, yes. the third one, probably not
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tantek
the third one is awfully handwavy / theoretical
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tantek
could be raised as an /indieAuth question perhaps
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tantek
if someone has an IndieAuth user-flow that makes use of such information - but I've yet to see any documented … I'd shove that down pretty low in priority
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tantek
and certainly would reject any strawman extension / brainstorming on something that doesn't even have a documented user-flow
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snarfed
it's not really about auth
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snarfed
it's about webapps that fetch and use your h-card as your profile. but sure, considering there aren't many (any?) of those that actually exist yet
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tantek
that's totally format-before-the-ux
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tantek
which is against our principles
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tantek
snarfed - *any*
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snarfed
agreed
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snarfed
hmans: remind us, were you ever thinking about pulling someone's h-card from their domain and using it to represent them elsewhere in the pants network?
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snarfed
or maybe it was mko
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snarfed
!tell mko remind us, were you the one asking about this for your Passport work? http://indiewebcamp.com/h-card##when+I+log+into
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tantek
alright, I'm going to start splitting up these issues and trying to resolve them on their appropriate pages rather than on /h-card
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek
I'll leave behind FAQs that point to where they went
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tantek.com
edited /h-card (+134) "/* Issues */ move user feature based issues first - they are more real and deserve to be processed / resolved first"
(view diff)
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GWG
I was working on location at IWC East.
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GWG
So, I'm storing location data, but not displaying it yet
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tantek
GWG - are there IndieWeb Examples in /location?
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barnabywalters
RE places use cases: as a memory aid, and also potentially useful or interesting for people to see where I’ve been and whether or not it was any good
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barnabywalters
e.g. “I’m in Iceland and know that Barnaby lives there, let’s see where he goes to eat”
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GWG
tantek: I've been meaning to add http://codex.wordpress.org/Geodata in as part of it
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GWG
Since I'm using it to store the data.
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barnabywalters
RE implied checkins, what is required for them to be real checkins? venue data attached?
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barnabywalters
as opposed to just coordinates and address?
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tantek
GWG "meaning to add" - add that to your "Itches" section on your User page :)
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GWG
barnabywalters: Sometimes you want a venue but not coordinates or an address?
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tantek
barnabywalters: I think it's about which part of your post is the "focus" or primary aspect
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tantek
for a checkin, a named venue is the "important" part
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GWG
tantek: I have to document my procrastination?
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tantek
as opposed to just "location" can be a geo coordinate or structured address
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barnabywalters
here’s an example of what currently passes for a checkin on my site: http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4UUPH3/
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tantek
GWG - helps reduce repeating, and helps prioritize
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barnabywalters
ideally the venue should be a tangible element on the page rather than just a piece of text
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GWG
barnabywalters: Can you elaborate on tangible element?
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barnabywalters
GWG: it should have thingness on the page
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barnabywalters
there should be some visual element on the page which obviously represents the venue
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GWG
barnabywalters: I cannot picture that
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tantek
barnabywalters: helps to document existing real world silo examples, e.g. screenshots
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GWG
barnabywalters: Do you have an example of anyone who represents thingness well?
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barnabywalters
tommorris does
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barnabywalters
I don’t really use any checkin service currently so can’t easily find screenshots
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barnabywalters
there’s a visual element on the page which obviously represents the venue
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tantek
werd.io has good examples
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GWG
Venue is more interesting to me than Geodata sometimes.
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GWG
Because Venue can be specific, yet vague
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barnabywalters
Known’s checkins aren’t really any more fleshed out than Taproot’s
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GWG
For example, I can declare Home a Venue.
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GWG
But I don't have to tell people where it is.
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barnabywalters
they’re just text posts with a map
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gregorlove.com
edited /User:Gregorlove.com (+267) "/* Interests */ media checkins"
(view diff)
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tantek
barnabywalters: but to your point - there's more of a thingness to them :P
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barnabywalters
tantek: not really any more than my own
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barnabywalters
they’re exactly the same, a map and a piece of text
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tantek
yes - looks good
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tantek
like a checkin
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tantek
says checked in
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tantek
names a specific named venue
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barnabywalters
yep, exactly the same as my checkins
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tantek
has a map of that venue as a primary visual element of the post - looks good!
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barnabywalters
the only difference is that I type “Checked into (venue name)”
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gRegor`
thingness, heh
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gRegor`
what is thingness
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tantek
barnabywalters: as someone viewing that post - can't tell that you typed something
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gRegor`
(Loqi prompt, not really asking)
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barnabywalters
tantek: so what specifically is missing from my checkins which is present in werd.io’s checkins which makes them more… checkinney?
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tantek
barnabywalters: nothing - that's what I meant by "looks good"
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barnabywalters
tantek: ah, okay :)
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tantek
"looks good!" even :)
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barnabywalters
it’ll be usable as a micropub app just like my note UI
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KartikPrabhu
barnabywalters: very nice interface!
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KartikPrabhu
err I mean UI :P no one says interface any more
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barnabywalters
KartikPrabhu: thanks! there are glitches to be ironed out, but it’s quite workable
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tommorris
drunkenly appreciates the mentions, barnabywalters
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Loqi
tommorris: tantek left you a message on 7/17 at 5:49pm: https://projectdouglas.org doesn't load for me. just spins and spins.
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barnabywalters
KartikPrabhu: ha ha, I was in the Vienna technical museum recently and they had an old huge computer with various hilarious “interfaces” like the “audio tape interface” and the “chess board interface”
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KartikPrabhu
man! I can't wait to use all these micropub UIs you people are making instead of the crappy Django admin stuff
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KartikPrabhu
barnabywalters: yeah seems 'interface' is reserved for the hardware type things
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barnabywalters
KartikPrabhu: maybe not… no-one thinks of a keyboard as a “keyboard interface”, or a “camera interface”, or a “mouse interface”
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tantek
ok I'm seeing another round of annoyance on FB with people-tagging (I like to point out silo-annoyances here to see if anyone else is encountering them, and if so, documenting with screenshots)
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tantek
I try to tag someone in a *public* photo and it says "Something went wrong. We're working on getting it fixed as soon as we can."
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tantek
(someone I've tagged before, and can tag in other photos)
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tantek
I feel it is helpful to document every time the silos provide *bad* UX as it's an opportunity for us to do better. And then demonstrate as such.
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: haven't used FB for about a week and hardly tag people... so not much from me on the FB end...
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tantek
that's one solution :)
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mko
barnabywalters: I like that UI. Why is there such a large blank space to the left, though? Could you use it better by adjusting the placement of the location preview, or do multiple location options show up (i.e. like a location search)?
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Loqi
mko: snarfed left you a message 49 minutes ago: remind us, were you the one asking about this for your Passport work? http://indiewebcamp.com/h-card##when+I+log+into
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snarfed
tantek: to be fair, that doesn't really sound like a design problem, more just a bug
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mko
snarfed: Yes. I've implemented the basic h-card functionality, actually, in passport-indieauth. After authenticating and verifying that you own the domain, it uses microformat-node by glennjones to parse the first h-card on the page, preferably one that is verified as "me" (but is non-discriminatory for v1).
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barnabywalters
mko: yep, acknowledged that the layout is a bit wonky — but yes, search results appear along the side. In that case there’s only one
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snarfed
mko: cool. do you know of any existing webapps that use passport for login and would actually use that h-card-based profile info in an existing feature?
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mko
I wanted to extend that by some form of metadata that tells people or parsers to parse a second URL instead of the one that it was initially parsing for more extended information.
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snarfed
if so, worth adding to that wiki page, since we don't know of any yet
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mko
I'm not sure. I don't know how widespread the usage of Passport is these days.
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snarfed
k. if you come across one, definitely add it
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mko
Will do
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tantek
snarfed re: "just a bug" I disagree - it's a super crappy error message from a user-perspective. "Something went wrong." really? could you be more specific?
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mko
But as of right now, there was about 7000 downloads of Passport.js yesterday (which is pretty typical of a weekday).
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snarfed
tantek: sure. still though, that's a global fb problem, not specific to tagging people
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david.shanske.com
edited /User:David.shanske.com (+16) "/* Features in Development */"
(view diff)
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tantek
design problem: SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN. at a minimum save that action to local storage and indicate on the tag with some color/annotation that the tag is "pending" or some such network activity nonsense
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snarfed
tantek: honestly, with very large distributed systems, often you can't be more specific. for many failure modes, i don't know that they could do better. the real fix is to make their infrastructure more reliable
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tantek
mko - do downloads mean anything? let me know when there are "interesting" (or any?) user-visible / public sites that use Passport.
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tantek
seriously - people download RFCs and W3C specs all the time too - and that doesn't mean squat.
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tantek
snarfed - I don't think "more reliable infrastructure is the answer" as infrastructure that large/complex is probabilistically unreliable.
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tantek
better approach - always save everything locally immediately (better / more responsive UX) and then use JS workers to sync that state back to the server
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snarfed
tantek: not true. the *history of the internet* technically is all about making reliable systems out of unreliable parts
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mko
Let me rephrase it: there were around 7000 downloads from NPM, which means that there were around 7000 installs of the software.
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snarfed
re saving it locally, given how compatible they have to be, and since users have to approve a prompt, they can expect that to work on a minority, which isn't really enough
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mko
Because there's no real way to see who is using Passport and who is using one of the various other auth frameworks, I have no idea who is using it.
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tantek
snarfed, just every desktop browser and smartphone mobile browser. doesn't sound like a minority to me.
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tantek
"every" = 95%+
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tantek
plenty of local storage frameworks to do that
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snarfed
sure. feel free to document it. it's not worth documenting every individual place it pops up, since it's common fb design
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tantek
snarfed - seems to be happening a lot
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tantek
we've documented unreliability on plenty of silos
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tantek
Twitter, Tumblr etc.
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tantek
downtimes etc.
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tantek
all good material to answer those who claim silos work "just fine" for "normal" users
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tantek
in practice they're frustratingly flakey at times
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snarfed
yeah, but again, i think that's a different thing than bad design. software quality and reliability is hard, esp for big systems, and orthogonal to indie vs big co
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tantek
(Twitter's crappiness is one of the things that finally motivated me to write my own notes posting support on my site)
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snarfed
there's no way in hell we do better overall uptime with our individual sites than fb or twitter or g+
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tantek
snarfed, in 2010 I was doing better than Twitter. they've gotten better since.
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tantek
also - their uptime stats all lie
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snarfed
sure. but that's the exception
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tantek
because they count such error messages as uptime
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tantek
which is crap
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tantek
they count "server uptime" - not "user feature uptime"
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tantek
they measure their plumbing uptime, not their UX uptime
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snarfed
sure, i'm not here to split hairs. truly high availability is a fundamentally hard problem, and being small doesn't make it a lot easier, only a little
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tommorris
If tommorris.org is down, I can fix that
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tantek
that too
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snarfed
and even so, they overall do better than us
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snarfed
tommorris: sure you can. the point is, what's your year over year uptime? 98%? 99%? 99.9%?
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snarfed
they're all better, and rightly so. they invest a ton in it
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tantek
snarfed - the place where we can easily beat *most* of them is performance / latency
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snarfed
which is all fine, we don't have to beat them at that, but we do have to acknowledge that some unreliability is to be expected, and our sites are almost always *more* unreliable
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tantek
FB being the notable exception - those guys are *fast* with page response time (impressively so)
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snarfed
tantek: for feature parity? doubtful. maybe so…but it's a different argument
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tantek
G+ is a slow pig - at everything
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tantek
trivial to out perform in terms of *any* feature
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KartikPrabhu
I don't know. I've had pretty slow response times from FB... specially when logging out
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KartikPrabhu
G+ is too big and doing too much for its own good
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tantek
snarfed - yeah feature parity is a different argument - but we're getting close to that with some too, e.g. here's the list to replace Twitter with your own site: http://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#Features
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KartikPrabhu
wow that is a pretty descriptive permalink right there ^^ by petermolnar
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tantek
In fact I will throw down this challenge now
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tantek
who will be the first to superset Twitter with their own website? i.e. fully support the feature set listed here: http://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#Features
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tantek
consider the race on.
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snarfed
tantek: search kinda deserves to be on that list :P
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tantek
reading that petermolnar post - no wonder there are professional wordpress consulting services like WPEngine to maintain a wordpress install
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GWG
tantek: It isn't that bad, I think
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tantek
hahaha. ahem. GWG, seems like only a matter of time before any non-dev I know switches off of wordpress and onto something like Jekyll (e.g. crystal_ most recently - and she was a staunch defender of how easy it was to keep WP updated)
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tantek
too many zero day exploits etc.
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tantek
aint nobody got time for that
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kylewm
that's more of a monoculture problem, right?
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GWG
tantek: They now have the ability to autodeploy .1 updates
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tantek
kylewm: sort of. marketsize problem.
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kylewm
there are probably a zillion zero days in Red Wind
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tantek
kylewm: something is not a zero day until someone discloses it publicly with zero days heads-up to you.
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tantek
so until that happens, you have zero zero days
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tantek
you might have a zillion potentials ;)
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tantek
has anyone implemented "I read this" posts? kind of like scrobbling for reading web pages?
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KartikPrabhu
what is this 'zero day' ?
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tantek
I seem to log a lot of "I read this" and "I skimmed this" in my personal (local text file) log
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GWG
tantek: I'll be agreeing to disagree with you on the Wordpress side of things. And continuing to develop Indieweb type plugins
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tantek
GWG - don't get me wrong, I think it is *awesome* that you are able to efficiently use WordPress
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tantek
that just means you have more to teach the rest of us :)
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GWG
tantek: Wonder if I should respond to that post. I have alternate choices.
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tantek
GWG - please do! or writeup your own "optimal" setup as its own blog post
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tantek
and this is the time of the day wherein I reference #indiechat for anyone wanting to chat about non-indieweb things like food, or current events.
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tantek
(unrelated to the wordpress discussion obv which is on topic)
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GWG
What I like changes, but I should.
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GWG
For example, I use SNAP, as he does, but I hate it and wish there was something better.
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tantek
GWG - snapshots of what you like is helpful!
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tantek
as is such commentary
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tantek
what is SNAP?
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GWG
Social Network Auto Poster
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GWG
It is the POSSE plugin
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GWG
But the code is horrible
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tantek
snarfed, when you say you would add "search" what exact search use-case did you mean?
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GWG
Which is why I'd switch to Bridgy for Publishing if not for 2 things
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snarfed
tantek: all of twitter's. search for people, search for notes from everyone or from your followers, search for any note nearby
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snarfed
i'm adding now, you can delete or revise after :P
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kylewm
GWG: are those two things filed as issues on github?
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barnabywalters
snarfed: twitter does location-aware search now?!
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snarfed
barnabywalters: afaik has for years
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kylewm
s/github/github\/bridgy
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Loqi
kylewm meant to say: GWG: are those two things filed as issues on github\?
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barnabywalters
oh wow I had not realised that
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tantek
snarfed we have a /search page
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barnabywalters
er, how do you search nearby from twitter.com?
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tantek
the "all of twitter" analogy to an indiewebsite would be "all of an indiewebsite"
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snarfed
sure! i meant, i'm adding it to /Twitter to the feature list
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snarfed
tantek: not really, more like "all of all indiewebsites"
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snarfed
and therein lies the rub
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tantek
snarfed - twitter doesn't search beyond twitter.com, so no need for this to mean anything more for an indiewebsite either
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GWG
kylewm: I think they are. Let me look
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tantek
snarfed - when twitter starts crawling other websites then we can add that
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snarfed
tantek: my point is, twitter searches *across multiple people*
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tantek
snarfed - for example, twitter search does not find results from article summaries they show
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mko
Cross-IndieWeb isn't that difficult.
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GWG
kylewm: Issue 85.
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tantek
mko LOL
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snarfed
mko: lol indeed. it's harder than most things we've built, if not everything
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snarfed
doable! but not easy, esp if you want it to scale
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tantek
I'd say the analogous "search" functionality is merely all posts on your site
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tantek
since that's all twitter search covers, all posts on twitter's site
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barnabywalters
searching across people you follow is easy for a reader built around a search engine e.g. elasticsearch
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mko
Eh. I'm pretty sure the search index module that I'm running could do that fairly easily. The hard part is building indices.
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GWG
Also, one that might not be
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mko
Agreed, barnabywalters. That's kind of what I was thinking.
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tantek
mko you had me at "the hard part is building"
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kylewm
GWG: photos is a blocker for me too
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kylewm
GWG: I'm curious what the other one is though, regardless of whether it's an issue
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barnabywalters
veeerrry slowly
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tantek
is not accepting any claims of "simple" or "easy" or "not that difficult" for anything someone has not yet deployed live on their own site. ;)
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mko
Nice, barnabywalters
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barnabywalters
tantek: give me a few weeks :)
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mko
I wish it were Node.js and not PHP, but I can live with PHP if I have to.
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GWG
kylewm: The other one I'm having trouble describing. It is basically how to tell Bridgy whether a publish should be a link + title or entire text of post
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tommorris
tantek is the Show Me state
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barnabywalters
mko: most of the work is done by elasticsearch and the rest goes into making the UI, so feel free to clone/steal from it and recreate using node :)
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tantek
tommorris: more like the "Ship it" state
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mko
tantek wouldn't believe he was born if it didn't say so on his birth certificate. "Document it, then I'll believe it." ;)
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tantek
mko - I'd settle for a URL where it worked
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mko
Truth.
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mko
tantek++
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Loqi
tantek has 50 karma
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tantek
URLs on the web = existence of web stuff
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tommorris
mko: there is a running instance. Sometimes a literally running instance.
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mko
:-D
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tantek
mko, tommorris feel free to add your sites to http://indiewebcamp.com/search#IndieWeb_Examples when you have search working on your personal site ;)
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mko
barnabywalters: Once I'm done with the first version of Indie.js, I'll certainly do it.
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tantek
til then, nothing is easy. except talk.
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tommorris
tantek: mine is just a duckduckgo form like your google form
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tantek
tommorris: great! document that! good to have non-google alternatives
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tantek
and if it works well I might switch to that
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mko
Hoping that will be the case by the end of next week, tantek. :-)
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snarfed.org
edited /Twitter (+721) "/* Features */ tagging, search, notifications, mobile apps"
(view diff)
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tantek
Google has been dropping some of my posts from their index
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tommorris
Will do when not in pub
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tantek
snarfed have you seen any people-tagged photos on twitter? because I haven't.
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snarfed
i have. i don't have the link handy
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snarfed.org
edited /Twitter (+16) "/* Features */ search is across people"
(view diff)
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tantek
are native apps a feature? just seems like a delivery mechanism
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snarfed
hence my parenthetical
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snarfed
feel free to delete
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kylewm.com
edited /search (+223) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add emmak's native search implementation"
(view diff)
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snarfed
doffs his official "silo apologist" hat for the day
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tantek
haha - that's no apologism - that's research documentation!
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GWG
snarfed: Do you have a picture of you in your Silo Apologist hat?
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tantek
gonna have to try harder snarfed ;)
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KartikPrabhu
gives snarfed a 'research documentor' hat!
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snarfed
will shoot anyone who says "pics or it didn't happen"
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tommorris
Snarfed = double agent for the insurgency
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tommorris
To be fair, I'm a double agent against Facebook
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tantek
since people tagging is something that Flickr, Facebook, Instagram, and apparently Twitter all do - what should we call them? person tags? people tags? other?
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tantek.com
edited /Twitter (-107) "move people tagged to its own page"
(view diff)
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tantek
looks like "people tag" wins the google relevant results contest so I'm going with that unless someone has a better suggestion
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mko
snarfed: So, since you recently dealt with Facebook API stuff . . . do refresh tokens no longer exist?
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snarfed
mko: if your app is purely offline, they don't. the access token you get scope offline_access lasts 2mo, then the user has to manually re-sign up for your app to get a new one
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snarfed
if it's online, ie they're interacting with it in a browser, then you can just get a new token each time. it won't re-prompt unless you ask for new scopes
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mko
Interesting.
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kylewm
GWG: about publish and full note vs. title + link... isn't that as "simple" as distinguishing note vs. article?
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snarfed
big change a while back, was discussed widely
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mko
Nice improvement over the refresh token state management we used to have to od.
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mko
do*
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snarfed
kylewm GWG: actually i think it's p-summary vs e-content, right?
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snarfed
GWG: if you sometimes populate p-summary and/or p-name, and bridgy prefers some combination of those to e-content when available, would that work?
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tantek.com
created /people-tag (+1275) "stub with dfn, why, how, silo examples, see also"
(view diff)
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snarfed
mko: eh that's what oauth libs are for, right? no need to implement it yourself
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tantek
snarfed - for your explicit review (since you added people tagging to the Twitter feature list) http://indiewebcamp.com/people-tag
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mko
I got a deprecation warning.
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tantek.com
edited /tags (+17) "/* See Also */ people-tag"
(view diff)
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snarfed
tantek: i hereby rubber stamp. :P i actually know very little about it, just that it exists
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tantek
I was just hoping the spirit of what you meant in reasonably human understandable prose.
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mko
Reads well to me.
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tantek
hoping *I captured* the
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tantek
thanks mko
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tantek
and feel free to add any more silo examples
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tantek
does anyone do people tags on their indieweb posts? and if so, how?
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mko
I haven't seen any, but now I want to.
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tantek.com
edited /people-tag (+117) "note SWAT0 had people tagging"
(view diff)
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tantek
mko good to get photo posts working first ;)
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mko
Already have them working.
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mko
Trying to get Facebook POSSE working before I push this thing live.
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snarfed
tantek: adding g+, otherwise lgtm
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snarfed.org
edited /people-tag (+108) "/* Silo Examples */ g+"
(view diff)
wolftune joined the channel
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tantek.com
edited /SWAT0 (+184) "dfn"
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cuibonobo
how would people-tags be different from simply mentioning people in the note / caption?
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tantek
cuibonobo: in the UI of the notification
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tantek
and in some cases, in the UI of the tagging
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mko
cuibonobo: as well as the UX of the tags themselves (i.e., typically "people-tags" show you in a photo which person is which)
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snarfed
tantek: so twitter's search "across people" seemed redundant? fine with me actually, just curious since you didn't assume it at first
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tantek
s/some/most
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: and in most cases, in the UI of the tagging
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tantek
snarfed oops wait did I delete something mistakenly? let me check diffs.
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snarfed
yeah. nbd. gotta love mediawiki. merging is hard, let's go shopping
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cuibonobo
mko: that would mean we’d have to save the coordinates of the tag relative to the photo somehow
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tantek
haha oops. sorry. will fix.
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tantek
snarfed, but now that I read "across people over people" that seems either redundant or confusing
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mko
cuibonobo: Yeah. Not ideal. Lots of metadata required to make a "Facebook-like" or "iPhoto-like" people-tag experience.
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snarfed
sure. i'm guessing you know what i meant, right? feel free to reword
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tantek
snarfed - I think? across a subset of people?
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kylewm
cuibonobo: tantek: maybe move or reference this in people-tag? http://indiewebcamp.com/photo#People_Tagging
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snarfed
tantek: i guess two things. a) search for people, b) search across all people's tweets
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tantek
see now the darn wiki search didn't find that
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tantek
snarfed, search across all tweets on twitter.com
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cuibonobo
kylewm: oh wow imagemaps! i had forgotten about those
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snarfed
tantek: of course
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snarfed
(as long as the parallel to twitter.com is the web, not a single indiewebsite :P)
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kylewm
cuibonobo: i know right? i last used an imagemap about the time of the <marquee> tag
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mko
<blink>
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cuibonobo
yuuup. exactly.
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tantek.com
edited /photos (+25) "/* People Tagging */ main"
(view diff)
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mko
POLL: Where do you POSSE notes to currently on your live site?
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tantek.com
edited /people-tag (+891) "brainstorming HTML image maps"
(view diff)
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tantek
snarfed - nope, the parallel to twitter.com is not the entire web. sorry to say.
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snarfed
tantek: i'll bite. what is it then? it's more than just your site, and more than the sites of everyone you follow or everyone who follows you. so…?
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tantek
but it might be everything that is on a single site, including posts by others that you cache, or include in reply contexts, comments, etc.
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tantek
and if your site supports being a /reader - then everything you've read or have queued to read
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snarfed
that's not really a parallel, it's a different scope altogether
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tantek
basicaly, the more functionality you add to your site, the harder the search problem becomes
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tantek
it's a parallel in the same way that if someone is not on twitter, then twitter does not search them
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tantek
the scope is the site
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tantek
and people who have stuff on the site
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snarfed
i think the parallel there is, if someone doesn't have a web site, web search doesn't search them
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snarfed
i disagree. a single person's indieweb site is not the corollary to a silo. their profile/wall on that silo is.
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tantek
but we're building a parallel to twitter, not to the entire web
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tantek
so if someone doesn't have a twitter account, then twitter search doesn't search them
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tantek
similarly if someone has no interactions on your site, then your site doesn't search them
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tantek
that seems like a reasonable analogy
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tantek
even liberal - as Twitter doesn't search contents of links mentioned on Twitter
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snarfed
ok, i see your perspective. it's unreasonable to say a single person's website has to provide global or even indieweb-wide search, across people
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tantek
until twitter or FB provide search across all silos then yeah, it's not reasonable to say indieweb sites should provide search across all indieweb sites
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snarfed
i'd argue that, to truly have feature parity with twitter, we'd need an indieweb-wide search engine (ie across people) to exist…but it could be a centralized service. doesn't need to be on every person's site
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snarfed
s/doesn't need/shouldn't/
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Loqi
snarfed meant to say: i'd argue that, to truly have feature parity with twitter, we'd need an indieweb-wide search engine (ie across people) to exist…but it could be a centralized service. shouldn't to be on every person's site
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kylewm
centralized search across indieweb == google?
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snarfed
and if we say google is it, that works for me
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snarfed
heh jinx
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tantek
snarfed - it's an interesting perspective from a usage perspective.
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tantek
i.e. the test question of "what do you still use twitter.com for that you can't do on your own site?"
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tantek
so if you still go to twitter.com to search, what are you searching that you can't search using your own site's "search" feature?
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tantek
similarly FB search etc.
awolf joined the channel
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snarfed
other people's posts!!!
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tantek
snarfed - well, if you have a /reader that caches other people's posts that you follow, surely you could implement search over those on your own site
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snarfed
but that's a small minority use case
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snarfed
when people search fb or twitter, often (usually) they're searching for stuff they *haven't* already seen
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tantek
I haven't already seen most people's tweets that I follow
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snarfed
e.g. "i want to see what people are saying about X right now"
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tantek
heh - that's the old Technorati tagline
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kylewm
I'd like to see indieweb tags / "trending topics" way before indieweb search
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tantek
irony about twitter search - it doesn't let you *only* search your own tweets
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mko
At least they now provide a full JSON dump of all your tweets on demand.
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GWG
tantek: Did the problem that technorati was trying to solve get solved?
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tantek
also I'm starting to consider feature parity of Twitter vintages
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tantek
GWG - no, no one has done any better, not even Google.
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tantek
even Google let their blog search wither
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tantek
and their more recent "real time search" died with their non-renewal of Twitter's firehose BD
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GWG
tantek: Time for a solution?