#indiewebcamp 2014-07-22
2014-07-22 UTC
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# 
Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/ShaneHudson/491308404343046144/491376192662945792 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (webmention)
# 
aaron_pk looking good if I do say so myself ;) https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3885/14709756491_256effbce8_b.jpg
# aaron_pk ha
# aaron_pk I wish
# bretolius Good advice here: http://opencommunity.pbworks.com/w/page/12943239/New%20user%20group%20checklist
# bretolius generally
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# aaron_pk hm shoot I don't have a good place to put an icon for the post type on my metrics permalink pages
# aaron_pk maybe I can drop the picture of me and my name and use that spot for the post type icon
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# gRegor` aaron_pk: Do you know if they changed HTML when they worked on this wiki theme, or just the CSS?
# aaron_pk lots of html changed IIRC
# gRegor` is it in a different repo?
# aaron_pk yes I believe it's all here https://github.com/peat/wiki
# aaron_pk oh actually I merged it in
# aaron_pk so it's all here https://github.com/indieweb/wiki/blob/master/skins/Teahouse.php
# gRegor` Ahh, ok.
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# johncash mozilla open badge what?
# aaron_pk quick poll: which is better? http://aaronparecki.com/uploads/metrics-1-20140721-174407.png or http://aaronparecki.com/uploads/metrics-2-20140721-174426.png
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# aaron_pk that's all for now, heading to OSCON party at ground kontrol!
# 
kylewm johncash: you should add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people (not least because your name is hard to google)
# johncash My name actually changes.
# johncash irc nick is not a constant for me
# johncash It's a lifestyle choice
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# gRegor` The media queries in foundation.css are a mess
# johncash stickers++
# johncash Loqi: stickers has 53432423 karma yo
# johncash 1 minute until stickers
# johncash they need a sticker of a sticker
# johncash #metaweb
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# johncash kylewm: yes :)
# johncash I don't do any of those :(
# johncash I'm in the fitness protection program
# gRegor` bretolius: I think "Events" is a good one to stay persistent on all pages. One of the big things in that session/hecking was making it easier to find out what events are coming up
# johncash home.tylergillies.club
# gRegor` s/hecking/hacking/
# gRegor` IA?
# bretolius gRegor` but when Im looking at pages about micropub and stuff, the last thing I want to know is when the next event is
# bretolius isnt the homepage and events page enough?
# johncash one down side to using domain as identity is it's cost prohibitive to create a new identity (could been seen as a feature) If i was fearful of my personal safety I couldn't very easily generate a new id as i could with things like gpg keys et al
# johncash could be*
# bretolius johncash lightweight spam prevention? :p
# johncash because spammers wouldn't ever buy tons of domain names
# gRegor` Admittedly, Crystal's approach seemed to be geared towards people that are new-ish to IWC... like, what do people come to the site looking for? Events, Principles, etc. was what the session decided were some of the most important things.
# bretolius I like the special side bar with important info / news on the home page
# bretolius gRegor` i would likely add adblock rules to hide it
# gRegor` tantek: The sidebar is easy to miss/ignore. And had multiple links that seemed to be the same. Like Calendar and Schedule... if you're new, you just want "events"
# bretolius as I do with the header bar now…. ahh breath of fresh air
# gRegor` And it bugged her you couldn't click "Events" in the "Indiewebcamp Events" sidebar text
# bretolius I ignore the current sidebar now
# bretolius none of the text links are aligned with the pages i want to go to so I forget which one is which
# gRegor` Interesting. You'd adblock the whole top bar?
# gRegor` Or just "events"?
# bretolius no on the old wiki :p
# bretolius old skin*
# bretolius yes
# gRegor` Right
# bretolius but the events and "what is indi" would get anoying
# bretolius on every page
# gRegor` Huh. Interesting.
# bretolius home page is fine
# bretolius but when reading about other stuff, I want it out of there
# bretolius kylewm++
# bretolius it should disapear when you are logged in
# gRegor` Yep, pretty well. http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/fix-the-indiewebcamp-wiki
# gRegor` Understandable. I'm certainly not suggesting we flip this to be the default theme anytime soon.
# bretolius I should add some stuff to that
# gRegor` The whiteboard photo never made it, but I think I captured it pretty well in the text of that page.
# bretolius gRegor` a light wheight hack: make the browser small enough to roll the sidebar to the bottom… now its just wiki content bold and center :)
# gRegor` is incrementally fixing the CSS
# gRegor` Meaning you like it when there's no sidebar, bretolius?
# bretolius yeah :)
# bretolius gRegor` check out http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/micropub in the new style
# gRegor` I like that myself, too, but I'm also a "power user". Gotta think about people that may land on an internal page first.
# gRegor` Especially new people, that is.
# bretolius gRegor` can it be an option for users logged in?
# bretolius i would be happy with that
# gRegor` Perhaps. I'm not sure.
# bretolius the new theme screws up all the fixed width boxes
# bretolius thats the other issue… noting
# gRegor` Unfortunately changing around the links is going to be difficult for me without setting up a mediawiki install to test it on, heh.
# bretolius :(
# gRegor` E.g. "Wiki tools" => "Edit"
# bretolius you see what I mean though right?
# gRegor` But I'm working on the cosmetic stuff I can easily do with CSS first :)
# bretolius thats cool :)
# gRegor` Yeah, I think a top-level "Edit" is a good idea.
# bretolius bnvk++
# 
mko When providing paginated results (assume no infinite scroll option), how many entries do you feel is the maximum that you like to load for a user at any given time? Does it depend on the type of entry in the feed (i.e. do you feel comfortable showing more notes than you would articles or more photos than you would articles)?
# bretolius gRegor`++ for wiki edits
# bretolius even though you will be karma free until you lose the `
# bretolius :P
# gRegor` I got some @ gRegornobacktick
# bretolius o wow
# gRegor` There ya go
# bretolius :P
# bretolius hehe gregornobacktick++
# gRegor` Started as a joke today, but hey, there ya go
# bretolius yes plz
# gRegor` Lulz
# bretolius gRegor` is amanda liking her site!?
# gRegor` bretolius: She does love it, but has not blogged again on it yet, heh.
# gRegor` She's still kinda settling in in WA
# gRegor` bretolius: I'm thinking of styling code blocks more like this: http://indiewebcamp.com/Template:attendee
# gRegor` Give them some more padding, get rid of the dotted line
# bretolius looks better/good… ww can add some nicer fonts before courier
# bretolius s/ww/we
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# gRegor` Also wrapping. No more scrolling left and right.
# gRegor` Which fonts should I add?
# bretolius ahh ues
# bretolius yes
# bretolius gRegor`: monaco, consolas
# gRegor` Ok. Are those OSX only?
# gRegor` Don't mind adding them, just wondering.
# bretolius gRegor`: i mean monaco, menlo, consolas
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# bretolius err good point.. not sure what the pretty monospace linux font is
# bretolius Ubuntu Mono?
# bretolius Monaco isnt on iOS iirc
# bretolius menlo is
# bretolius android users at least get consolas
# bretolius i found that font to display pretty badly on windows
# bretolius ya
# bretolius blurry
# bretolius looks sooo good on linux tho
# bretolius weird
# bretolius ill test it out
# bretolius fonts in windows browsers is a total crap shoot though
# mko You can check out the TypeKit version of it as a comparison if you want: https://typekit.com/fonts/inconsolata
# bretolius looks like sugar on this mac :)
# bretolius not near windows atm
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# 
gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com/redesign (+1450) "/* Long Text Section */ Line measure" (view diff)
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# gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com/redesign (+164) "/* Long Text Section */ Lists!" (view diff)
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# gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com/redesign () "(-1450) /* Line measure */ rm" (view diff)
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# gRegor` Here's an early version to try out: https://gregorlove.com/indiewebcamp.css
# gRegor` kylewm: ^ fixes the navbar mostly, except for the mobile size. thumbnail borders/caption, and textarea line-height
# gRegor` bretolius: ^ used the fonts you listed for <pre>
# gRegor` You can place that indiewebcamp.css file on your site to try it out. Feedback welcome from all.
# gRegor` Also changes the main font size slightly as you make the browser larger, so it is easier to read on higher resolution.
# gRegor` Line measure should be better in general, too.
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# bretolius gRegor`how do i preview?
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# gRegor` bretolius: Place that CSS file at bret.io/indiewebcamp.css
# gRegor` Then switch on the theme
# gRegor` Or force it in the URL like you did earlier
# 
tantek.com edited /history (+358) "2014 - W3C Social Web Working Group launched with key indieweb citations" (view diff)
# gRegor` I've also set up a test page with most of the design elements I've worked on so far, so you can test them on one page: http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Gregorlove.com/redesign
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# 
tantek !tell aaronpk,aaron_pk bummer that http://indiewebcamp.com/indieweb-messaging says it's out of date at the top, as I wanted to refer to it in reply to this: https://www.facebook.com/evan.prodromou/posts/10152578309725505?comment_id=10152579191330505&offset=0&total_comments=12
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# tantek I noticed that "pics of attendees" is 2nd on this list: http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/fix-the-indiewebcamp-wiki#What_do_you_visit_the_wiki_for_most.3F
# tantek this page is empty for the moment: http://indiewebcamp.com/who
# tantek ah it was johncash asking here http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-21#t1405984823
# 
KartikPrabhu indiemark which axis?
# gRegor` That list isn't weighted, btw. Just in the order people called them out and written on the whiteboard.
# gRegor` The "To Do" section was a list of things the participants listed to be done, then we did two-dot voting, so those are sorted by most to least votes.
# tantek.com edited /2014/fix-the-indiewebcamp-wiki (+71) "/* What do you visit the wiki for most? */ note explicitly unordered" (view diff)
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# gRegor` iirc it's that it was a prominent page that is way too long. :) I think we talked about how you were updating it... at least I think that was going on at that time.
# gRegor` (sorry, was referring to /projects)
# gRegor` Ask Crystal about the email sign up. I forget what that entailed.
# gRegor` I might have mis-captured that one, because you're right, it doesn't make sense.
# tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (-21) "attempt at simplifying / minimizing sidebar by what people said they wanted in 2014/fix-the-indiewebcamp-wiki#Home_Page" (view diff)
# gRegor` Good point on Getting Started
# tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+0) "put sponsor with events since it's directly related to that. put recent changes at bottom of resources since it's a common place to check" (view diff)
# gRegor` I'll tackle HTML tweaks in the coming days.
# tantek pretty sure I took care of 3 of the top 5 items listed on http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/fix-the-indiewebcamp-wiki#Home_Page
# gRegor` Not sure I like the next HWC / next IWC links. But I also ignore the sidebar, so I dunno.
# gRegor` "next" should probably be capitalized.
# gRegor` It's an improvement.
# tantek.com edited /2014/fix-the-indiewebcamp-wiki (+22) "/* Home Page */ took care of 3 out of the 5 top level items here. check out the updated sidebar" (view diff)
# gRegor` That's where the picture of the doodle on the whiteboard would help (Crystal took it, heh)
# gRegor` The doodle was a wide left column right sidebar, with the next upcoming event listed at the top. I presume during day 2 they decided to put it at the top of the right column instead.
# gRegor` Correct. :)
# gRegor` The doodle was basically what they came up with, just the next event was moved to the right instead of left. Their update also automatically pulls in the event, doesn't require updating the sidebar
# gRegor` The idea was to make the home page more like a blog. There was talk of (but not really votes for) pulling in more content from news.indiewebcamp.com and more than just the headlines.
# tantek I'll tell you what, when any of those folks involved with the redesign actually commit any updates to http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=Posts_about_the_IndieWeb&action=history then we can talk about more like a blog, until then - I say that's bad design
# gRegor` I disagree on sidebars.
# gRegor` I was just filling you in on the background of the item you referenced, not arguing it should be more blog like per se. Since you referenced the "event at the top left" was just clarifying they didn't mean in a sidebar.
# gRegor` I think on the current theme, the left sidebar looks like a sidebar. Like "you generally ignore this stuff!" I think on the new theme it looks more like two columns, not "here's the main content, and here's a sidebar [with ads and ignorable stuff]"
# tantek (now we just have to remember to update http://indiewebcamp.com/MediaWiki:Sidebar accordingly every two weeks and after every indiewebcamp)
# gRegor` You're right about sidebars on social networks, but I don't necessarily think of IWC like that. Right column content is pretty common on blogs.
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# gRegor` Hm. Interesting.
# gRegor` looks at tantek.com and aaronparecki.com
# gRegor` "Discussion" link is there for the same reason it's on the old theme, btw. The MediaWiki PHP generating it wasn't messed with, I'm guessing, just the CSS for how the list is displayed.
# gRegor` Just now all those links are actually more visible since they're not light gray and under the top bar
# gRegor` That indentation looks bad with the wrap
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# gRegor` I would like to see TOC moved in general. That couuld be a good right sidebar candidate... if there was an easy way to do that.
# gRegor` Perhaps in place of "What is Indie?"
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# KartikPrabhu ppl not using ems for sizing?
# KartikPrabhu maybe but if all sizing is in ems then the actual font should not matter
# gRegor` The current wiki theme is definitely not in ems
# gRegor` errrr
# gRegor` Have fun :)
# gRegor` ' DROP TABLES;
# gRegor` I've only scratched the surface editing templates
# gRegor` so maybe it's easier than expected.
# gRegor` I think one reason they chose to start with a new theme instead of hack the current one is that it has a slew of CSS files, like 9. Including "handheld.css"
# gRegor` Ah, one of the classic lunders. The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia"
# gRegor` Man, I cannot type today.
# gRegor` *b^
# gRegor` Ooh, missed the other one.
# gRegor` Found it. Haha
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# kylewm tantek: any feelings on adding /irc/today to the sidebar?
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# KartikPrabhu welcome gerbil
# gerbil thx - am lurking to learn
# KartikPrabhu good good... feel free to ask questions :)
# gerbil as a non programmer on a scale of 1 - 10 (1 easy) - how simple will I find it to implement indieauth into WP and start 'getting involved'? -
# gerbil biggest known pitfalls worth knowing now?
# KartikPrabhu gerbil: what do you mean by implement indieauth? do you want to login to the wiki?
# gerbil it's the fun of trying I suppose :) - I'm looking to free my blog, publish to the silos and get comments back into the blog from the silos - I'll look at the wiki later - just trying to get a feel for the pain points and time to allocate.
# gerbil in your opinion should they be added to the theme or as a plugin?
# KartikPrabhu gerbil: don't worry about theming and stuff at this moment... add what ever works right now and slowly increment it
# gerbil GWG: & KartikPrabhu: thx - makes lots of sense!
# KartikPrabhu gerbil: see here for details: http://indiewebcamp.com/How_to_set_up_web_sign-in_on_your_own_domain
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# gerbil that's way to simple :) thx!!
# KartikPrabhu gerbil! :)
# KartikPrabhu gerbil: also you might want to work your way up this page http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started for starters
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# tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+32) "add irc/today chat log per kylewm suggestion" (view diff)
# 
@matemaz RT @timoreilly: IndieWebCamp looks awesome http://indiewebcamp.com/ #indieweb via @benwerd (twitter.com/_/status/491455322641674240)
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# tantek !tell benwerd welcome back from LA! Could you post an indie event and FB POSSE copy for http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club ? thanks!
# KartikPrabhu tantek: give the guy a break will you!
# KartikPrabhu ;)
# KartikPrabhu yeah I was going to say that next :P
# KartikPrabhu fwiw i have no idea how to do events either. not that I have a demand for events on my site
# tantek KartikPrabhu: I have some idea: http://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#event_posts
# KartikPrabhu tantek: any ideas about recurring events like HWC?
# KartikPrabhu yes that's what I mean
# KartikPrabhu I would like to have a default timeperiod/place and change only if needed
# KartikPrabhu ha! I would I could figure this out
# KartikPrabhu if *
# KartikPrabhu 'one' event is hardly a demand (if I'm being lazy)
# KartikPrabhu also I don't want to add to my database stuff at the moment. I really want to switch to files before adding post-types
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# KartikPrabhu !tell tantek: yes moving to files is on my working list :)
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# 
@agence50A #TonicTuesday sur l' #IndieWeb par @xtof_fr https://twitter.com/agence50A/status/491494734461140993/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/491494734461140993)
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# @agence50A Christophe nous explique les zones d'ombre de l'indieweb ! https://twitter.com/agence50A/status/491495953619492865/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/491495953619492865)
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# @agence50A La conclusion ! #indieweb Merci @xtof_fr https://twitter.com/agence50A/status/491498256678285313/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/491498256678285313)
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# 
@nicolas2fr RT @agence50A: La conclusion ! #indieweb Merci @xtof_fr https://twitter.com/agence50A/status/491498256678285313/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/491499942729756673)
# 
@thib39 RT @agence50A: La conclusion ! #indieweb Merci @xtof_fr https://twitter.com/agence50A/status/491498256678285313/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/491500145834754048)
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# @agence50A RT @xtof_fr: Pourquoi Le Web est Cassé & Comment le Réparer ? #tonictuesday @agence50a Clique #indieweb bienvenue ! #RSVP http://t.co/Dsx… (twitter.com/_/status/491505733465546752)
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# 
@tommorris RT @timoreilly: IndieWebCamp looks awesome http://indiewebcamp.com/ #indieweb via @benwerd (twitter.com/_/status/491543487247298560)
# 
@djp1974 RT @timoreilly: IndieWebCamp looks awesome http://indiewebcamp.com/ #indieweb via @benwerd (twitter.com/_/status/491545407168598016)
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# gRegor` I really like how the MDN wiki shows the TOC in the sidebar and sticks to the top as you scroll down: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/:default And how the sidebar shows related content / can be hidden. Nice responsive, too.
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# gRegor` Morning, cuibonobo!
# gRegor` ...is it Friday yet? :)
# 
barnabywalters good morning!
# gRegor` Hi barnabywalters
# gRegor` (I probably just need more coffee)
# barnabywalters just made the first use of my place publishing in a note: http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4XDELo/
# gRegor` barnabywalters: Did you see the test suite PR?
# barnabywalters more of a mention than a checkin, especially as it’s of two places
# barnabywalters gRegor`: yep, thanks for putting that together! haven‘t had a chance to review it properly yet, I’ll try to have a look this evening
# gRegor` No rush
# barnabywalters the whitespace thing doesn’t surprise me, that’s one area where mf2 parsers can be quite inconsistent
# barnabywalters all the more reason for good testing tools to ensure consistency
# gRegor` Yeah. I'm not sure how to make (most) of the tests pass in that case.
# gRegor` Without updating the output.json file to have all the spaces and CRLF that are actually in the input.html
# barnabywalters well first we need to figure out what the desired behaviour actually is and specify it more rigorously and then update the tests
# barnabywalters IIRC previous discussion resulted in the vague consensus that whitespace should be preserved in all cases
# gRegor` From the discussion, the whitespace in the p-name is correct. tantek specified DOM's textcontent because the spec for whitespace in HTML5 is a nightmare, so easier to just say that.
# gRegor` Nice work on the checkin, barnabywalters
# barnabywalters cweiske: ah, so you’re the culprit :) I was just wondering who was sending those
# gRegor` I like those openstreetmaps. Look forward to implementing those.
# barnabywalters yep, I do. mentions from the same domain is fine but from the same URL is just silly so I need to filter better there
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# gRegor` Heh
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# barnabywalters tommorris: thanks for letting me know, will change now
# barnabywalters tommorris: I want to! I’m already storing the OSM node/way/etc URL but want to start creating/updating nodes on OSM for new venues I’m adding
# 
JonathanNeal Good morning (PT)
# barnabywalters e.g. neither of the businesses linked to in that note are on OSM
# barnabywalters tommorris: the UI is public: http://waterpigs.co.uk/places/new
# barnabywalters it is linked from the wiki, I could add a screenshot but plan to work more on it
# barnabywalters e.g. I need a tileset which includes house numbers on the buildings, and a button which downloads POIs for the current view
# barnabywalters just searching nominatim doesn’t always work so well
# barnabywalters tommorris: thanks!
# barnabywalters tommorris: to retrieve what?
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# barnabywalters tommorris: go ahead, hopefully you will appreciate my fairly minimal javascript :)
# barnabywalters also I want to get this UI micropub-enabled so people can just use it to create venues on their sites as-is
# barnabywalters tommorris: yep, that’s what I’m planning on doing!
# barnabywalters having either a button or some hueristic (e.g. close-enough zoom level) upon which POIs within the current bounds are fetched and plotted
# barnabywalters *heuristic
# barnabywalters that won’t work for new venues, e.g. when a way exists representing a building and I want to add details to that rather than creating a new node
# barnabywalters tommorris: interesting, I did not know about that! but it makes total sense
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# barnabywalters yep, that makes sense. it’s a bit of a stretch for software to figure out which approach to take, so I’ll probably implement finding by name and dropping back to creating a new node if none was found
# 
tommorris my place posting UI: http://cl.ly/image/1J3j413u1V2I
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# barnabywalters at some point I want to refactor my location code into a small wrapper around leaflet which should make location form controls really easy to create
# barnabywalters essentially it would be a declarative wrapper around leaflet which progressively enhances simple form elements
# barnabywalters tommorris: yep, pushpin is great
# barnabywalters but I tend to do armchair mapping more than field mapping much more now as ReykjavÃk is extremely well mapped
# barnabywalters tommorris: yeah, it was based a little on Pushpin. I can’t remember if they handle zooming better though
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# androte96 why is movement called indiewebcamp instead of just indieweb?
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# androte96 aaronpk
# androte96 maybe. it was a few years ago
# 
@Digital_ilusion Site deaths are one of the big reasons why you should own your own identity and content on the web http://indiewebcamp.com/site_deaths (twitter.com/_/status/491616434196611072)
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# barnabywalters finally dealt with the plumbing preventing me from further developing my feedreader
# barnabywalters feed testing UI is public! http://shrewdness.waterpigs.co.uk/test/?url=waterpigs.co.uk
# barnabywalters aaronpk’s feed also looks rather nice: http://shrewdness.waterpigs.co.uk/test/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faaronparecki.com%2Fnotes
# barnabywalters tantek: thanks! I’ve been doing a lot of work refining the presentation of posts
# barnabywalters still a lot more to do, some documented in https://github.com/barnabywalters/shrewdness/issues/
# androte96 where is the auto complete in this bloody client
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# gRegor` barnabywalters++ for feedreader
# 
waterpigs.co.uk edited /feed (+259) "/* How to */ added how to test section with link to shrewdness feed tester" (view diff)
# barnabywalters cuibonobo, gRegor` thanks! current task is to actually make it work as a feed reader rather than just a testing UI :)
# gRegor` Nice to test my notes feed in
# barnabywalters gRegor`: please do, if you spot anything wrong or weird let me know either here or https://github.com/barnabywalters/shrewdness/issues
# barnabywalters cuibonobo: nope, it’s only there because I’m using the same template for the tester as the actual reader
# barnabywalters I should remove that now
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# gRegor` Way to go, kylewm ;)
# gRegor` camping++
# barnabywalters but is it indie((webcamp)camp) or (indieweb)campcamp or or ((indie)web)camp)camp
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# gRegor` !tell snarfed posse-post-discovery doesn't seem to be working on this note. http://gregorlove.com/notes/2014/07/22/1/ I manually polled bridgy and "no post links found"
# gRegor` kylewm: Know if when no post links are found, is there no bridgy log?
# gRegor` The timestamp links for those give "Log not found!"
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# 
@adactio RT @timoreilly: IndieWebCamp looks awesome http://indiewebcamp.com/ #indieweb via @benwerd (twitter.com/_/status/491626625487101952)
# 
@Pinkie678 RT @timoreilly: IndieWebCamp looks awesome http://indiewebcamp.com/ #indieweb via @benwerd (twitter.com/_/status/491627522061131776)
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# 
@fth_nix RT @timoreilly: IndieWebCamp looks awesome http://indiewebcamp.com/ #indieweb via @benwerd (twitter.com/_/status/491632460191768576)
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# Loqi snarfed: gRegor` left you a message 33 minutes ago: posse-post-discovery doesn't seem to be working on this note. http://gregorlove.com/notes/2014/07/22/1/ I manually polled bridgy and "no post links found"
# gRegor` cool
# gRegor` I got my first wm sent to multiple notes in the reply thread. Looking forward to sorting those out for display in a thread :)
# gRegor` Hehe. No rush, just figured I'd mention it.
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# 
@timmmmyboy RT @timoreilly: IndieWebCamp looks awesome http://indiewebcamp.com/ #indieweb via @benwerd (twitter.com/_/status/491634326187286528)
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# snarfed (background: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/217 )
# gRegor` Definitely will be tackling reply chain handling first
# gRegor` Well, maybe single reply-context first, then reply-chain
# 
@itsmisscs This is what we must move towards. It's our web. “@timoreilly: IndieWebCamp looks awesome http://indiewebcamp.com/ #indieweb via @benwerd” (twitter.com/_/status/491635059351228417)
# tantek gRegor`: awesome! I've documented single-reply-context here: http://indiewebcamp.com/reply-context#original_content along with the next step (reply-thread) below that.
# tantek gRegor`: perhaps you could start a stub at /reply-chain for the other direction? (since you're doing that next)
# gRegor` Should "reply thread" be "reply context thread" to be more clear?
# tantek gRegor`: it's in the /reply-context page already so that provides some, er, context ;)
# gRegor` Oh yeah
# tantek this feels like a silo-dopamine anti-pattern: https://twitter.com/jkottke/status/491618070512021505 (good for the silo, bad for the user, kind of like an addiction)
# 
@jkottke Just stopped reading Twitter to open Twitter in a new tab. Like, "This is boring, I wonder what's happening on Twitter..." (twitter.com/_/status/491618070512021505)
# 
@wanypie RT @itsmisscs: This is what we must move towards. It's our web. “@timoreilly: IndieWebCamp looks awesome http://indiewebcamp.com/ #indieweb v… (twitter.com/_/status/491637280436912129)
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# gRegor` tantek: Have an indieweb tweet I can list as an example on /reply-chain?
# gRegor` Er, tweet. Not indieweb tweet.
# snarfed gRegor`: looks like bridgy found your syndication link: https://www.brid.gy/twitter/gRegorLove . it probably first caught the syndicated tweet before you had the syndication link, so it fell through to the refetch, which is only every 2h
# gRegor` An example of Twitter's reply-chaining, basically, prerferably from an indieweb person.
# gRegor` kylewm: The syndication link on my note, you mean?
# snarfed gRegor`: maybe https://twitter.com/shepazu/status/484902457047130113 ? both of KartikPrabhu's replies are possed
# gRegor` I am manually cross-posting and adding the syndication link, but usually pretty quickly. Must have just missed it. :0
# snarfed gRegor`: (from https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/217 )
# tantek gRegor`: found it: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-20/line/1405903937
# tantek original indie note only show's benwerd's reply to himself: http://werd.io/2014/a-api-talk-at-reclaimyourdomain-btw-with-microformats-you-dont
# tantek whereas twitter posse copy shows fully reply-chain, including indie-to-indie reply from me to his reply to his note, and then a tweet in reply to my tweet: https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/490958867803537408
# 
@benwerd A+ API talk at #reclaimyourdomain. Btw, with microformats, you don't necessarily need JSON. Here's my site, parsed: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwerd.io (twitter.com/_/status/490958867803537408)
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# gRegor` Just stubbing it for now. Put the link in and someone can screenshot :)
# gregorlove.com created /reply-chain (+334) "This is an awkward concept to describe in text. Feel free to edit. :)" (view diff)
# gRegor` What is reply chain?
# Loqi A reply chain is a threaded list of replies — and replies to those replies — displayed under the original post http://indiewebcamp.com/reply-chain
# snarfed tantek: (just fyi, looks like the twitter replies are missing from that indie note of ben's because his own immediate followup doesn't @-mention himself, which bridgy requires - details in https://www.brid.gy/about#missing - and the rest are in reply to that followup)
# gRegor` snarfed, kylewm Oh, interesting. I didn't realize bridgy would re-process those favorites / replies on the next fetch.
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# 
bnvk w00t, thanks barnabywalters for nudging me to make https://brennannovak.com/notes MF2 parsable :)
# barnabywalters nice work bnvk!
# barnabywalters bnvk: I notice you don’t publish datetimes with timezone information — are the datetimes UTC, or local to you/your server?
# barnabywalters bnvk: that’s because my feed reader will assume that datetimes with no timezone information are UTC
# barnabywalters on your site they’re “2014-07-22 11:40:04”
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# 
@withknown RT @itsmisscs: This is what we must move towards. It's our web. “@timoreilly: IndieWebCamp looks awesome http://indiewebcamp.com/ #indieweb v… (twitter.com/_/status/491657325065682945)
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# Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 12 hours, 43 minutes ago: welcome back from LA! Could you post an indie event and FB POSSE copy for http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club ? thanks!
# Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/homebrew-website-club-july-30-2014 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
# Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/jmenglund03/490907211145555968/227050193 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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# 
@audreywatters Oh and possibly IndieWebCamp UK if I can fit it in… (twitter.com/_/status/491661273235345408)
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# barnabywalters benwerd: Taproot doesn’t do that, the closest thing it does do is allow updates to a note to be re-syndicated, handy for big edits
# barnabywalters bret: yeah, it can also be used for e.g. re-posting something for people in a different timezone
# barnabywalters benwerd: I’d hav thought it’s a matter of starting with the post delete interface and going from there — e.g. listing POSSEd copies each with a checkbox so people can choose to delete them
# barnabywalters s/hav/have
# barnabywalters benwerd: unrelated, at some point the javascriptey names in http://shrewdness.waterpigs.co.uk/test/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwerd.io%2Fcontent%2Fcheckins are really going to have to be sorted out :)
# barnabywalters that’s good to hear!
# barnabywalters benwerd: also, awesome work getting audio posts working!
# barnabywalters is the UI all HTML+javascript i.e. using getUserMedia to record, or is file uploading required?
# barnabywalters oooh cool, I didn’t realise it was POSSEd to soundcloud as there aren’t any outgoing links
# barnabywalters benwerd: hrm yeah, that would make much more sense
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# barnabywalters yeah, soundcloud really have the upload UX nailed
# barnabywalters ick
# barnabywalters wow, soundcloud’s beta uploader is even better. I just uploaded a 5.7MB track and it took about 1 minute, which was filled with filling out details anyway
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# barnabywalters benwerd: YAY! perfect, thanks :)
# barnabywalters well, actually they still appear to be in the microformats parse result, but my feedreader cuts them out
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# barnabywalters so, er, something is fixed but I’m not sure what it is
# 
@kinlane IndieAuth is a way to use your own domain name to sign in to websites - https://indieauth.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/491673493981765632)
# barnabywalters yep, that’s a big improvement
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# kylewm !tell benwerd I had bad luck trying to edit Facebook posts, even though the API makes it look possible. slightly more information here https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/84
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# 
@robchandhok RT @kinlane: IndieAuth is a way to use your own domain name to sign in to websites - https://indieauth.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/491676009633026048)
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# 
@andrewvelez RT @kinlane: IndieAuth is a way to use your own domain name to sign in to websites - https://indieauth.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/491685137885978624)
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# 
@atishneo RT @kinlane: IndieAuth is a way to use your own domain name to sign in to websites - https://indieauth.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/491688079955357696)
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# 
@enricostano RT @kinlane: IndieAuth is a way to use your own domain name to sign in to websites - https://indieauth.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/491690901526552576)
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# Loqi benwerd: kylewm left you a message 1 hour, 6 minutes ago: I had bad luck trying to edit Facebook posts, even though the API makes it look possible. slightly more information here https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/84
# 
@NelioSoft RT @kinlane: IndieAuth is a way to use your own domain name to sign in to websites - https://indieauth.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/491692636273901570)
# 
@ManuAlpuente RT @kinlane: IndieAuth is a way to use your own domain name to sign in to websites - https://indieauth.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/491693151229603841)
# 
@prabath RT @kinlane: IndieAuth is a way to use your own domain name to sign in to websites - https://indieauth.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/491695388248641536)
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# barnabywalters tantek: the documentation/specifications for indieauth are rather unorganised and spread around at the moment, partly due to it being quite fast-moving
# tantek on another subject, just saw this blog post about "8 ways to make Twitter your own" https://blog.twitter.com/2014/8-ways-to-make-twitter-your-own - anyone want to take a crack at rewriting it (blogging) with an indieweb perspective? e.g. "8 ways to make your website your own"
# barnabywalters or, as phrased by Chloe, 8 ways to make your own twitter
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# barnabywalters CONGRATULATIONS basal YOU ARE THE 120th PERSON IN #indiewebcamp AND HAVE BEEN SELECTED FOR A PRIZE
# @benwerd Looking Inside the Facebook News Feed (by @natematias, awesome as always) http://civic.mit.edu/blog/natematias/uncovering-algorithms-looking-inside-the-facebook-news-feed #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/491697591113904129)
# tantek barnabywalters: I like the "8 steps to make your own Twitter" - but I think there are more than 8 steps per: http://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#Features
# 
@natematias @benwerd awww, thanks! Would love to see #Indieweb apps support auditability out of the box, tho I know it would consume tech resources (twitter.com/_/status/491697844869275649)
# basal tantek, evening
# basal barnabywalters, I totally planned that
# Loqi [mention] http://gregorlove.com/notes/2014/07/22/3/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-01#t1404248945 (webmention)
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# crossdiver From the &yet world: Gar and I gave an introduction to the indieweb talk at TriConf: http://vimeo.com/101137894
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# gRegor` watches and adds it to the wiki
# gregorlove.com edited /videos_about_the_indieweb (+136) "/* 2014 */ Gar & Issac Lewis, It's clever NOT to be clever & How to "indie" all your tech (Vimeo, 26:59)" (view diff)
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# 
pdurbin is gonna guess bear and crossdiver use https://talky.io for team chat :)
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# KartikPrabhu re: dA's TOS... yup. they can do funny things with the art you post there
# KartikPrabhu have you guys seen adactio using Twitter as a feedreader basically: http://adactio.com/journal/7130/
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# KartikPrabhu yup!
# KartikPrabhu which is a neat hack for content categorisation in Twitter
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# KartikPrabhu tantek: yes. i don't quite understand that distinction
# KartikPrabhu article vs notes to me is primarily a length/post-frequency distinction
# gRegor` tantek: (scrolling back) videos could be cool.
# 
@dangillmor Very interesting visit at @withknown, project of @benwerd and @erinjo -- they're putting @indiewebcamp principles/tools to good use. (twitter.com/_/status/491730177542864896)
# gRegor` I think it'd be worth talking to Crystal because she had a pretty interesting perspective which I don't know how well I can do it justice. short short version, she had purposely not been on IRC for most of the last year and lost touch with IWC and when she came to the wiki she had a heck of a time finding things. She wanted to focus the site more for people visiting for the first time,...
# gRegor` ...emphasis on getting them to events, etc.
# gRegor` For some reason last night's sidebar changes don't appear for me, even after hard refresh. Hmm.
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# gRegor` What's your use case for "Page" links? Like, where do you use it from?
# crossdiver thanks tantek!
# gRegor` Aha
# crossdiver we had a lot of great questions -- and the hallway track afterward was really great
# gRegor` Gotcha.
# gRegor` Re: the "Wiki tools" category link, you know you don't have to click it, right? I can see having to mouse over it, then down to the link being a pain, though.
# KartikPrabhu tantek: from personal experience. I had no idea what the "Page" link does... maybe a better name?
# crossdiver tantek -- yeah, TOS are really evil on so many levels, but from an indie standpoint, they're the crux of what keep silos in power
# gRegor` Ok. Well I'm still mulling over this.
# gRegor` I obviously don't want to make it harder for people editing the wiki, but I do think there's a good case to be made for making the site better for the average user, which I think is a "reader", not an "editor"
# gRegor` So hopefully we can come up with a happy medium
# 
@_crossdiver TOS are really evil on so many levels, but from an #indieweb standpoint, they're the crux of what keep silos in power. /cc @t (twitter.com/_/status/491731855964528640)
# gRegor` Agreed. I don't want to discourage edits either.
# gRegor` I just thing a sidebar (that is easy to ignore), with mediawiki links above it (confusing, also easy to ignore)... is cluttered.
# gRegor` s/thing/think/
# gRegor` Fair enough
# gRegor` Not sure I understand
# gRegor` Anecdotally, I've been pretty much strictly using Teahouse since IWC and haven't had problems, other than some typography things I've worked on in the CSS last night. So I'm interested in iterating on it, personally.
# gRegor` The current skin is a nightmare.
# gRegor` I just won't bother with editing it, to be honest.
# gRegor` I'd have to set up a MediaWiki install to do so.
# gRegor` It's a nightmare to edit.
# gRegor` Yes
# aaron_pk will confirm the current skin is a monster of html and css
# gRegor` So it leaves me... very uninterested in trying to edit it. :) That's just me, though
# gRegor` Any idea why the sidebar isn't refreshing for me? I saw it in Firefox last night on some pages, not others. Today it seems to be the old one everywhere (still Firefox, not logged in to the wiki)
# aaron_pk gRegor`: the not-logged in version of the wiki is cached as static html files
# gRegor` kylewm: Yeah, one thing I love about it.
# gRegor` Ahh, ok
# aaron_pk tantek: I believe there's a blacklist of html tags basically, so I'd have to create an extension to allow specific tags
# aaron_pk i've done it before
# aaron_pk also I think I have an extension that lets you type a tag like <raw></raw> and put whatever you want inside
# aaron_pk ah yea
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