#indiewebcamp 2014-07-27

2014-07-27 UTC
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tantek having used a fragmention URL to one of my own blog posts in my most recent note, I've now deployed fragmention.min.js to tantek.com and joined the fragementions work on my site crew.
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tantek.com edited /fragmention (+241) "tantek.com supports fragmentions on post permalinks" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /fragmention (+1) "separate open source implementations from IndieWeb Examples" (view diff)
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snarfed hey aaronpk, is it a known bug that webmention.io doesn't support urls w/fragments? or fragmentions?
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snarfed searching the gh issues didn't turn up anything
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snarfed (tantek, you'll be glad/sad to know this was triggered by your note you just mentioned :P https://www.brid.gy/twitter/t )
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tantek and tantek.dev stopped working for me :(
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tantek so much for local dev
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tantek goes back to iterating live on tantek.com
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tantek snarfed - cool! and just deployed a stylesheet update to animate / show fragmentions also
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KartikPrabhu woohooo fragmentions!
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snarfed aaronpk: filed https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.io/issues/21
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KartikPrabhu come people do marginalia too :P
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tantek.com edited /fragmention (+184) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ CSS!" (view diff)
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aaronpk snarfed: thanks
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tantek KartikPrabhu: some of us still have to get comments and other post reactions working first ;)
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aaronpk tantek: what happened to tantek.dev?
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tantek 404
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aaronpk what!
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tantek yup
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aaronpk did you update the OS recently?
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tantek in FF Aurora, recently upgraded.
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tantek seems to still work in Safari. hmmm
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aaronpk well that doesn't make any sense...
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tantek nope
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aaronpk I wonder if FF is doing its own DNS resolving so it's ignoring the hosts file or something
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aaronpk snarfed: ah I think I know what's going on with webmention.io
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snarfed aaronpk: great!
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aaronpk a URL with a fragmention isn't valid unless the second # is encoded
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aaronpk so the URL parser says it's an invalid URL
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snarfed oh boo
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snarfed sigh
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KartikPrabhu fwiw: fragmention.js handles the second encoded # correctly
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KartikPrabhu and python's url parser just works with ## :P
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@schnarfed @SimonCoopey hi! just fyi, looks like your webmention handler is 500ing. details: https://www.brid.gy/twitter/SimonCoopey https://www.brid.gy/log?start_time=1406418141&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lySwsSCFJlc3BvbnNlIj10YWc6dHdpdHRlci5jb20sMjAxMzo0OTI5NzE3NzQ5MDEyMjM0MjRfZmF2b3JpdGVkX2J5XzM5MTA1ODI3DA (twitter.com/_/status/493192856618930176)
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KartikPrabhu though that might be considered a bug
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@t Since my prev post used a ## URL, time to deploy #fragmention polyfill. #indieweb #showdonttell http://tantek.com/2014/179/b1/indiewebcamp-thoughts-before-gathering##standard%20way%20to%20make%20URLs%20that%20refer%20to%20a%20selection%20of%20text%20on%20a%20page (ttk.me t4XH2) (twitter.com/_/status/493194232375427073)
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bret does adding a file upload field to a form make it a multipart?
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aaronpk no, you have to add the attribute on the form tag
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aaronpk <form enctype="multipart/form-data"...
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bret whoa
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bret ok
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aaronpk old skool
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bret its just form encoded otherwise?
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aaronpk yeah. i don't know what it does with files otherwise.
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bret grrrr
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bret req.is('multipart') not identifying it
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aaronpk argh what happened to barnaby's mf2 parser!
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aaronpk oh I see... it's all fancy now
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aaronpk when you paste into the HTML box it autoparses and shows the resutling JSON on the side
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aaronpk I think I had some old cached JS the first time I loaded the page just now
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tantek the minified fragmention JS is so small I'm tempted to just include it inline in my HTML rather than adding another *blocking* HTTP request
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tantek what do others think? anyone here support fragmentions on their site inline like that (instead of <script src=..>)
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gRegor` I don't support it, but have always found inline JS messy. Why not put the <script> at the end, right before </body>?
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tantek gRegor`: of course such <script> should be at end before </body> (already doing it :P)
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tantek I've always found higher latency far uglier than any inline JS messiness.
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gRegor` It shouldn't block the page load then?
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tantek it still shows the "loading..."
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tantek or whatever progress bar/cursor your mobile device has
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gRegor` Ah
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tantek user perspective: site is still loading
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tantek but yes, it doesn't block *reading* the page at least
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tantek !tell kevinmarks what's the official "spec" for Fragmentions that I can point people to? Say, in case a browser wanted to implement it.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gRegor` In that case, maybe inlinse. Or append to cassis.js
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gRegor` s/inlinse/inline/
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Loqi gRegor` meant to say: In that case, maybe inline. Or append to cassis.js
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ShaneHudson As long as the script doesn't block rendering (for any longer than it really needs to) then go for the one with the best performance.
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tantek ShaneHudson: we're talking about best performance, which includes blocking or not rendering
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tantek gRegor`: hmm - I wonder what it would mean to support fragmentions in PHP on the serverside
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herbsmn hi. I've never been here before. I'm curious, does #indiewebcamp have a way to share videos in a federated way already?
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herbsmn if not, check in with #mediagoblin on Freenode here. they were looking to do federated html5 video stuff.
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bret hey herbsmn welcome!
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herbsmn thanks! exciting to jump on freenode for the first time in my life
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herbsmn and to get to chat with you fine ppl.
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bret herbsmn, there has been some experimentation. but not a huge deal of focus on that
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bret i think http://werd.io/ was doing some mobile video uploading to his own site
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herbsmn right on. was just a sort of random thought.
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bret video hosting is hard :p
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herbsmn yeah. that's why i was figuring it might be best to partner with some people already doing some of that
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bret we have cross site note sharing pretty nailed down though!
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bret which can take video embeds
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herbsmn very rad. i can't wait to get my own indieweb site up and rocking.
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bret yeah herbsmn++
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herbsmn i'm not very experienced with web development though
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bret i wasnt either when I got started
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bret its a good projects to learn on!
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herbsmn i would agree. i see so many applications for it
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bret start simple and iterate
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bret thats key
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herbsmn i don't know what iterate means
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bret http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iteration
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bret herbsmn do you have your own domain name?
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herbsmn bret: yes
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bret nice! will you add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people ?
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herbsmn well, i only have the domain itself. ben was suggesting that he was going to host me with Known once the hosted service starts rocking in the coming weeks.
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herbsmn can you tell me about the relationship between Known and #indiewebcamp?
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JonathanNeal tantek: what did you decide about inlining fragmention vs externally loading it?
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bret herbsmn sorry had to get up for a moment
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bret herbsmn i would take bens word more than mine :) http://werd.io/2014/known-taking-a-big-bet-on-the-indieweb
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bret herbsmn a common theme is trying to do everthing with html and http
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herbsmn what do you mean?
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@MGraybosch Not What I Had In Mind Im using the pro version of NextSc http://www.matthewgraybosch.com/?p=866 #indieweb #mistake #oops #posse #sharing #syndication (twitter.com/_/status/493237558319390721)
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herbsmn what?
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bret herbsmn Loqi auto posts tweets that have the #indieweb hashtag (among others)
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herbsmn oh, sweet
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bret what I meant above is that the goal is to build things that interoperate with each other using only html and http. They are the most widely agreed upon standards and it still allows for great freedom in terms of the software running in the background
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bret err... mostly html/http
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bret thats my personal reading at least!
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herbsmn cool.
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herbsmn can most indieweb stuff work without javascript enabled?
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herbsmn that raises security issues for me
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tantek herbsmn - pretty much all indieweb stuff works without javascript enabled in the browser. We've had some new innovations that are being prototyped in JS, but they're all being designed to not require JS.
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herbsmn tantek: thanks for the heads up.
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herbsmn has anyone heard of an indieweb site on an onion address?
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herbsmn if this were possible, it could open up the ability to have a social network on tor hidden services, which would be totally rad!
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tantek herbsmn - as soon as that becomes an itch for someone, they're likely to build it
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tantek herbsmn - have you checked out indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started ?
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bret yay for fighting web framework bugz
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Loqi woot
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herbsmn i have an itch and i'm just getting started
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tantek that's the spirit!
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herbsmn i'm on the list to get a hosted version of Known and I'm really excited about it
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bret herbsmn do the onion addresses change often?
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herbsmn bret: you can keep the same address forever
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herbsmn although many people changed their addresses after HeartBleed
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bret if they are reliable, everything were doing should work just as well as long as it does not break standard http reqs
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bret the tor hidden services are kind of like an alt DNS right? (plus all the anonomizing services)
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herbsmn yes, i believe so.
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herbsmn the concept sounds really cool though. being about to host your own social media network on hidden servers and then connect to other ppl that are doing the same thing.
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herbsmn even without doing this though, you can choose who can see certain posts with indieweb sites, correct?
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bret im to much of a wuss to contribute to the tor network :p
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herbsmn what do you mean?
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bret like run a node out of my home connection freaks me out
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bret s/run/running
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Loqi bret meant to say: like running a node out of my home connection freaks me out
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herbsmn oh. well you don't have to be an exit node
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herbsmn you could just be a relay and everything will be encrypted.
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tantek.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+224) "dfn, see also videos" (view diff)
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bret tantek do you have a list/arcive page of all articles?
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bret s/arcive/archive
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Loqi bret meant to say: tantek do you have a list/archive page of all articles?
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bret (on your personal domain)
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tantek bret not on a single page no, but you can iterate through the bims from 2010/1 onward
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bret hey that works :)
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herbsmn is Loqi a bot that helps translate?
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Loqi woot!
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herbsmn are there videos of the talks given at the recent indiewebcamps?
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bret why yes!
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bret well, videos about the indieweb
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bret http://indiewebcamp.com/videos_about_the_indieweb
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herbsmn oh man, i can't view vimeo videos
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bret doh
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bret herbsmn when you get yourself onto the wiki, feel free to document issues with vimeo here: http://indiewebcamp.com/vimeo
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herbsmn oh cool!
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bret first steps... get a basic html page served from your domain! https://neocities.org/ and https://pages.github.com/ are both free options
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herbsmn yeah, i use Tor for all my browsing
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herbsmn Vimeo discriminates against Tor users
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bret you can also use tumblr as an easy starting host
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herbsmn ok
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bret herbsmn that sucks >:(
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bret I find it funny all the netflix users are going through the same shit with their ISPs as the torrent users did a few years back
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bret even though arguably they are more 'legitamate'!
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bret (in reference to all the excessive and absurd throttling)
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bret if you use tumblr, just make sure you put your own domain onto it
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herbsmn oh, ok.
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herbsmn so i could use that until i get my Known site running?
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bret yeah! :)
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bret i think tallpaul was working on a starter template for an indieweb tumblr
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herbsmn oh really?
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bret herbsmn even just having an html page with links to your profiles you wish to consolodate is a valuble thing to have
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herbsmn i think i might want to go the tumblr route
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bret herbsmn yeah not sure how far along it got
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herbsmn where could i find it?
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bret it was worked on this year at IWC portland
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bret herbsmn im not sure.. let me ask him
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Loqi KevinMarks: tantek left you a message 3 hours, 46 minutes ago: what's the official "spec" for Fragmentions that I can point people to? Say, in case a browser wanted to implement it.
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KevinMarks We should probably converge on one, yes.
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Loqi yea!
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KevinMarks I do wonder if ## is too much trouble and overloading # is better
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bret i kinda like that :)
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KevinMarks I was unlink
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bret herbsmn i cant find his contact info right now
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bret http://paulmunday.net/ is paul
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bret ill ask him next time I see him
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KevinMarks I was in lining fragmentions.js on my blog, but I switched to including from the repository
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bret weeee <input type="url">
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tantek KevinMarks: why did you switch from inlining to external? and are you src= direct from github? I'm using a "local" copy of the minified version on tantek.com
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bret wow look at all those types I never knew about: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/Input
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KevinMarks I did src direct from github to save editing the blogger template which is a pain. For something in src control itself I should be less lazy
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KevinMarks I wish input type url was less of a dick about http:// prefixing though
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bret KevinMarks >:D https://rawgit.com/
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KevinMarks Browsers tend not to care about content type of JS
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herbsmn thanks bret
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tantek KevinMarks, re: wish input type url was less of a dick about http:// prefixing though - I've actually solved this - view source and feel free to copy paste from http://tantek.com/relmeauth/
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tantek note how you can just type kevinmarks.com and it gets fixed up for you without any "red" indicator or anything
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KevinMarks Can you send a diff to the browsers?
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KevinMarks Maybe a defaultprotocol param that defaults to the local protocol?
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tantek KevinMarks - it's a bit of JS on the page that fixes it up before the browser(s) have a chance to complain
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tantek I've been thinking of writing a blog post about it - how to fix input type=url, but alas have been too busy/behind on blog posts
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tantek too much building, not enough writing/talking ;)
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tantek and with that, good night.
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Loqi gute nacht!
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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Jeena !tell KartikPrabhu I should send and get webmentions, did you send one to me which doesn't show up?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Jeena !tell KartikPrabhu Just reread what you wrote, yes I send webmentions and I see my webmention on your website too, did you have to add it manually?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu Jeena: yes I did add it manually...
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: Jeena left you a message 6 minutes ago: I should send and get webmentions, did you send one to me which doesn't show up?
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: Jeena left you a message 2 minutes ago: Just reread what you wrote, yes I send webmentions and I see my webmention on your website too, did you have to add it manually?
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Jeena ah I wrote it 2 months ago, back then I didn't realize that for testing reasons I commented out the "send webmention" method and it snack into the production code
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Jeena a couple of weeks ago I changed it.
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KartikPrabhu Jeena: ok good. I was wondering if my webmention receiver rejected it for some reason but that is cool!
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@kid_OYO @t @benwerd question: in introducing young people to #indieweb concepts... Where would you begin? #DistillingIdeas (twitter.com/_/status/493409487097987072)
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bret hey aaronpk. just noticed there are encoding types for things like markdown? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mime_type##text/x-markdown
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bret would that be the right thing to use for micropub editing of source documents
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bret ?
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aaronpk bret: yeah that's kind of what I was thinking!
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bret so I guess you can accept file uploads in a x-www-form-urlencoded form
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bret but its bad
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bret can we just say for micropub, files only come over multipart?
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aaronpk I feel like this kind of thing should be handled by the web server environment relatively seamlessly. Like in PHP you just get files in the $_FILES variable, it already parsed out the request by the time you get it
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bret i had to write my own multipart middleware >:[
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bret https://github.com/bcomnes/gitpub/blob/master/lib/multiParse.js
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aaronpk that's insane. how come nobody has done that in node yet?
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aaronpk here's one https://github.com/felixge/node-formidable
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bret thats baically what I used
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bret you still have to have the lib process the request
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bret which that middleware basically does
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aaronpk right
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aaronpk what does a file upload look like if it's not multipart?
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bret heh
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bret not sure! my urlencoded parser isnt parsing it ;P
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aaronpk hm let me find out
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bret i just get a filename out of it
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bret I think its a matter of turning on a library option
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bret aaronpk http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#h-17.13.4 w3 says multipart *should* be the way to send files in a form
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aaronpk oh right, file upload controls can also accept multiple files
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bret :D i coded my multipart to create an array of files
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bret my post staging then has to handle an array of files
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aaronpk I think today I'm going to make my micropub endpoint accept a geojson file so I can post my bike rides via micropub
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bret I refactored all of my micropub libraries last week, now Im just getting them turned on and working together
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donpdonp aaronpk: that++
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aaronpk I already imported my Strava history! http://aaron.pk/m4WgzLv
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/metrics/bikeride
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aaronpk just need to get it set up to autoimport from runkeeper like how ownyourgram works
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aaronpk bret: here's a quick test https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/3c44eefe91cc07f259fe
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aaronpk looks like it just sends the filename unless the enctype is set
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bret aaronpk ahhh!
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bret i se
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bret or is the parser just throwing out that data?
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aaronpk no parser there
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aaronpk https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/3c44eefe91cc07f259fe
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bret oh yeah huh
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aaronpk updated with the node server I used
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bret aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 521 karma
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@OscarSanFuentes NUEVO POST: web.mention, la aplicación para monitorizar la reputación online. http://oscarsanfuentes.blogspot.nl/2014/07/webmention-la-aplicacion-para.html?m=1 #socialmedia (twitter.com/_/status/493461983858286592)
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aaronpk !tell barnabywalters when I sign in to your site, it sets a client_id of waterpigs.co.uk/login which doesn't exist!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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gRegor` Afternoon, indiewebcamp
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aaronpk Hello gRegor`!
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gRegor` A designer friend wants to get some experience designing for iOS and suggested teaming up if I ever want to code an app. Our initial idea is some sort of concert history tracking, since we both go to a lot of concerts. I said it should definitely have a component to read/write to our own sites so the data isn't locked into the app.
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gRegor` Of course I've never made an iOS app, so it could be a long time coming, but could be fun.
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bret gRegor`: that would be cool! :)
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bret I kinda wanted something like that for movie
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bret s
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gRegor` it's been in the back of my mind to track more quantified self stuff like that on my site, just haven't gotten around to it.
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bret gRegor`: micropub client!
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gRegor` Totally!
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com (+22) "/* Interests */" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: OK, go to [secret URL on my domain] and click the link @lonnierae: types something [text arrives] (twitter.com/_/status/493480207874285568)
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aaronpk oh nice!
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aaronpk gRegor`: check out this iOS app which supports micropub https://github.com/aaronpk/PushupCounter-iOS
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gRegor` Will do. I actually mentioned you had an app that did that, heh
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aaronpk KevinMarks: why do you keep tweeting that? I keep seeing it pop up here
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gRegor` Only problem is I'm on a PC.. Will need to look into alternative ways to develop for iOS. Hackintosh? Heh
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@OhhSocialMedia RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @t: OK, go to [secret URL on my domain] and click the link @lonnierae: types something [text arrives] (twitter.com/_/status/493481162736926722)
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aaronpk oh hmm
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dariusdunlap gRegor`: Used Mac Mini is a viable option. They can be had fairly cheap.
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gRegor` Ah yeah, good idea
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aaronpk macmini++
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Loqi macmini has 1 karma
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gRegor` Woo, I've got the basics of my posting interface fetching in-reply-to URLS and populating the reply-context via AJAX.
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snarfed nice!
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snarfed triton.pin13.net eh?
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snarfed i like the hostname
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aaronpk huh what?
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aaronpk I haven't used that name in a while
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aaronpk gRegor`: woo congrats!
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KartikPrabhu log in on the wiki isn't working
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aaronpk uhoh
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aaronpk I thought I *just* tested that
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aaronpk huh yup... one sec
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snarfed aaronpk: looks like reverse DNS still resolves your server's IP to triton. (i only noticed because a cron job on it is HEADing brid.gy/log every 15m. not a problem, i just evidently have too much free time :P)
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aaronpk orly?
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aaronpk trying to think what would be making that request
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aaronpk every 15m exactly?
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aaronpk snarfed: can you send me more details about the request?
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snarfed aaronpk: sure! 66.220.1.232 - - [27/Jul/2014:13:15:27 -0700] "HEAD /log HTTP/1.1" 405 73 - "Ruby" "www.brid.gy"
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aaronpk that's odd
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aaronpk and it's always pretty much exactly 15m?
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snarfed yup. at around :00:30, :15:30, :30:30, and :45:30
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aaronpk I can't imagine I would have hard-coded /log into any script, so it must be discovering it from something
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kylewm snarfed: is activitystreams verb="invite" an event?
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snarfed aaronpk: agreed. what's odd is that all /log links i serve in html have query params, but these requests don't
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snarfed kylewm: let's see
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snarfed kylewm: good point. we'll get 'invite' activities *from* silos, but we don't support publishing them *to* silos (ie fb)
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snarfed so you can probably ignore that comment of mine
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kylewm ok thanks, maybe that's worthy of its own elif case
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kylewm continuing discussion in the PR :)
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aaronpk fixed wiki login
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: ^
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KartikPrabhu trying
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KartikPrabhu yup works
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aaronpk thumbsup
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kartikprabhu.com edited /events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (+36) "/* RSVP */ me too" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] http://gregorlove.com/notes/2014/07/27/1/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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@gRegorLove Join us for Homebrew Website Club at our new location this Wednesday! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/493507416768532480)
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Loqi [mention] http://gregorlove.com/notes/2014/07/27/2/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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@gRegorLove @pitchdesign @marihuertas @dentonjacobs Hope to see you at Homebrew Website Club this Wednesday! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/493509501434089472)
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (+375) "add Portland URLs" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (+14) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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bret is it possible to set the http Authorization header from a form in the browser?
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aaronpk I don't believe so
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bret so if I wanted a minimal multipart form based micropub client, I would have to parse the multipart before authorizing?
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bret to get the token out of it
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aaronpk you'd have to accept the token as a form parameter
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bret right, doing that now with url encoded... i guess i just have to do the same thing and toss out the file if I dont want it
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bret thats pretty cool at least, I can rearrange my order of operations by just reording my middleware :D
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bret oh wowow! feedbin does inline footnote expansion
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KartikPrabhu bret: URL for that? or a screenshot of what that looks like?
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bret ya one sec
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KartikPrabhu I use footnotes in my articles and would like a good UI for displaying them inline or something
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bret KartikPrabhu http://imgur.com/a/GaqqW#0
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KartikPrabhu bret: what happens on cliking the ... ?
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bret check image 2
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KartikPrabhu oh I see it is an image gallery! thanks :)
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KartikPrabhu pretty neat... defaults to usual footnotes if no JS I am guessing
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bret i dont think feedbin would work without js
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bret just a guess
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KartikPrabhu aah unfortunate... this could easily work as a progressive enhancement type UI
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bret its more of an application than a web page
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bret yeah it could probrably be adapted!
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KartikPrabhu if app = doesn't work without JS then yeah ;)
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bret thats fine with me though in this context... a feed reader page reloads sounds horrible
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bret with page reloads*
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KartikPrabhu bret: fair enough... but I like that footnote UI
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bret i like yours :P
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bret this has a nice animation to it
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bret.io created /feedbin (+258) "Created Feedbin" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu bret: thank! those are reserved for marginalia so far... I have been thinking of doing footnotes that way too
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bret how are they different?
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bret (other than that you wrote them)
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bret oh rad, you can run your own feedbin?
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bret.io edited /feedbin (+62) (view diff)
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bret this is pretty much my experience with node: http://nodejsreactions.tumblr.com/post/88676610859/attempting-to-structuring-an-async-application-as-a
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aaronpk haha
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Loqi rofl
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bret this too http://nodejsreactions.tumblr.com/post/71978719009/creating-issues-in-my-own-github-project
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aaronpk heh, how do I stream json without needing to build up the entire object in memory
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aaronpk this is gonna be ugly
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bret ermm
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bret streamz
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snarfed aaronpk: sounds like jsonxmpp
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snarfed jay-snax-map
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aaronpk that didn't end up being so bad
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aaronpk i just have to build the JSON manually
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aaronpk this is rad. now I can query my full GPS logs for any date range and it'll stream the result back as geojson. very low resource usage on the server since it's going from sharded files on disk straight to the http client without loading more than one line into memory at a time
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snarfed nice!
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bret woopwoop!
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KartikPrabhu bret: about marginalia/footnotes: I don't think they are different. RIght now the marginalia are being picked up from comments so footnotes are not really picked up
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