#indiewebcamp 2014-07-28

2014-07-28 UTC
gRegor` and lukebrooker joined the channel
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herbsmn are there indiewebcamp web developers that work for hire? i have a friend who is running for political office who wants a website built with this capability.
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aaronpk herbsmn: you might want to get in touch with benwerd from http://withknown.com
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herbsmn thx
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bret might interested to start a bounty board
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bret interesting*
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KartikPrabhu what's that?
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bret it might interesting to see what people who are willing to pay for indieweb things are willing to pay for
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KartikPrabhu I see.
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KartikPrabhu herbsmn: when you say "website built with this capability" what capabilities is one seeking? Curious as to what features people outside indiewebcamp are interested in...
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jclark_ non Google/Twitter/Facebook indieauth server (yes, reviewing distributed-indieauth but my coding chops aren't quite there yet)
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jclark_ I'd pay for that, fwiw
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snarfed jclark_: indieauth also supports github, persona, sms, and gpg key (just fyi)
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snarfed also email i think
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jclark_ thanks snarfed, I have those
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jclark_ herbsmn: if site is set up, how will people learn what's there/why valuable/how to use? I'd like to help with that, would help me learn too.
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KartikPrabhu jclark_ : what do you mean by "how will people learn what's there/why valuable/how to use" ?
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ShaneHudson People can understand the value of something without nessecarily being able to do it themselves
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jclark_ right, and perhaps I'm thinking that it's more transparent in functionality than a few minutes ago. Just learned of indiewebcamp today, trying to take it in.
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jclark_ and offer help if/when appropriate for a teachable newb
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KartikPrabhu jclark_: I am confused. Are you referring to the readers of a website or the builders?
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KartikPrabhu more on Twitter recommending brands: http://img.ly/zxwe
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jclark_ KarticPrabhu: I was referring to readers, but I was confused.
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KartikPrabhu jclark_ : do you feel that readers of an indiewebsite need more direction than say 'usual' websites?
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jclark_ no
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jclark_ but when i was confused, I thought there might be
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KartikPrabhu I see. indiewebsites are just blogs with a lot of "social" features if you will
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KartikPrabhu so if readers know how to use websites/blogs in general they should be pretty fine
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jclark_ thx KartikPrabhu
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/gRegorLove/493509501434089472/493577827157946371 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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post-by-email uploaded /File:20140728-021335.jpg "Uploaded via email by =?UTF-8?B?R2nhuqNpIHBow6Fw?= marketing =?UTF-8?B?aGnhu4d1IHF14bqj?= <nhuycattuong1*@*ail.com>"
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:20140728-021335.jpg "Spam"
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@judico sheesh. Clearly I wasn't looking in the right place. Just discovered @indiewebcamp goodness. Sweet. (twitter.com/_/status/493581044096831489)
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@dsearls @judico @indiewebcamp Yep. Rocks. Hi @t! (twitter.com/_/status/493582830790664192)
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aaronpk a couple car2go trips are on my site now! http://aaronparecki.com/metrics/2014/07/09/143337/ however i'm blocked on importing the rest
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bret nice aaronpk :)
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bret did you make too many requests?
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KartikPrabhu jdas priest Twitter's photo upload is so slow
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KartikPrabhu is this a sign that I shouldnot POSSE photo posts to Twitter ?
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KartikPrabhu first photo post: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/dusty-rhodes-watershed
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KartikPrabhu yes! it is a "note with photo" ;)
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KartikPrabhu yeah well Twitter can sick a duck!
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KartikPrabhu is this channel PG?
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kartikprabhu.com edited /photos (+186) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ added me" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] http://manymedia.com/2014/07/indie-web-camp/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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@judico @dsearls @indiewebcamp @t Finding my way, slowly. This is much of what I was looking for back in 2010 at #IIW. (twitter.com/_/status/493631574705844224)
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aaronpk bret: no I just need to merge all my gps logs into a single location so that I can query the route for the car2go trips from it
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cweiske aaronpk, "not quite"?
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aaronpk not quite what?
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cweiske http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-26#t1406398886
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aaronpk ah
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=distributed-indieauth&action=historysubmit&diff=11515&oldid=11514
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cweiske k
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aaronpk indieauth.com is not a "fallback", either a person signing in or a service can choose to use it if they want, and the other party doesn't need to care.
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cweiske services speaking indieauth can fall back to indieauth.com if there is no auth endpoint link on the user's page
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aaronpk I wouldn't call it falling back though
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aaronpk a better way of saying it is a service can fall back to relmeauth
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aaronpk and indieauth.com is an easy way to do that
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aaronpk noticing quite a bit of "please remove me from this conversation" messages on twitter
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aaronpk when there's a long reply chain to multiple peopole
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cweiske aaronpk, it's kinda strange to have "buy a VW" listed as first point on the mercedes-how-to page
KevinMarks, krendil, michielbdejong, kylewm, Sebastien-L, danbri, eschnou, friedcell, squeakytoy, adactio and barnabywalters joined the channel
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Loqi barnabywalters: aaronpk left you a message on 7/27 at 11:53am: when I sign in to your site, it sets a client_id of waterpigs.co.uk/login which doesn't exist!
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/gRegorLove/493509501434089472/27699215 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
chrissaad, wolftune, jclark_, LauraJ, dariusdunlap and gRegor` joined the channel
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@dinchamion Desperately missing @joindiaspora and @e14n_com's #pumpio - where's the love for #indieweb, @mashable?? http://mashable.com/2014/07/28/social-networks-on-the-rise/?utm_cid=mash-com-fb-main-link&utm_content=buffere9110&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer (twitter.com/_/status/493780546510925825)
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message on 7/25 at 2:32pm: if you're interested in giving a talk about IndieWeb sometime 2014-10-20..24, in particular how you've built or setup your own indieweb site, check this out and make a proposal! http://html5devconf.com/cfs-oct2014.html - feel free to mention that Tantek recommended you make a proposal (I was on their speaker board for a while) - and that offer is open to
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benwerd Oh! I wish I'd seen this. I did propose a talk, but didn't think to add tantek as a reference.
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aaronpk IndieWeb hack night is up on PDX devweek! http://pdx.devweek.org/
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benwerd Nice! In line with HWC - will you video-sync?
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aaronpk we definitely can. not sure how useful it will be tho.
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aaronpk yeah I'm turning this week's HWC into hack night in portland
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bret :D
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bret for dev week
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bret.io edited /events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (+11) "/* RSVP */ Yes" (view diff)
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bret http://pdx.devweek.org/#indieweb-hacknight
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bret.io edited /events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (+19) "/* URLs */ Added id slug" (view diff)
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aaronpk nice
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bret im soooo close on gitpub
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bret im held up on a contribution to a node module I want to expand a little
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bret but the author is really nice and interested in the contribution
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aaronpk interesting
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aaronpk you can always make it use your fork from github
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bret yeah that just occured to me too :)
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bret again, everything is like a 20 point turn with node
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bret but its cool to see the modularity work together finally, when you can simply rearrange a route to fix bugs
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aaronpk bear: sorry I didn't see your indieauth issues earlier
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aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/issues/65
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bear oh my - I should have closed that as workign properly - it was a glitch between my brain and the code :)
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aaronpk it's fine :) now there's more docs in case someone else searches it
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bear I have my indieauth code working just fine now
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aaronpk sweet
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bear I even wrote a quick post explaining how I implemented it in python (not that i'm good at this wordsmithy thing)
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aaronpk oh cool https://bear.im/bearlog/2014/206/implementing-indieauth
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bear nods
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bear I wanted to put it out there so folks could see a python flask implementation
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bear I have also asked one of the security folks on our team to give it a review
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aaronpk great!
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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anNofMe hello everyone - instead of lurking, I thought I should introduce myself: I’m Kevin Bonham. I’m a biologist (immunology/microbiology) - I’m a complete newb when it comes to coding/development, but I’m 100% on board with the principals of the indieweb, and I hope to contribute something, even if it’s only the perspective of a naif
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bear welcome anNofMe
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bear all perspectives are helpful - especially a newcomer. without having new folks try to do their own domain we won't know what areas are in need of fixing
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bear our main documentation site is the IndieWeb wiki - http://indiewebcamp.com/
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bear and a good place to start is http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started
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anNofMe Yeah, I’ve been crawling all over that website for a couple of days now (first heard about the project from Kevin Marks on TWiG)
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bear cool - a lot of people lurk and are active across all timezones, so please do ask any question and one of us will answer
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barnabywalters greetings anNofMe!
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anNofMe I’m currently trying to figure out the best system for setting up website. I have a passing familiarity with html, and I’ve done wordpress before, but since everything there is generated behind the scenes in ways I don’t understand, I’m going to try to avoid it
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bear the first question to solve that problem is do you have access to setup your own service
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anNofMe now attempting github pages… will definitely ask questions when they come up, but I prefer to attempt to solve problems by banging my head against them for a while first :-)
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bear :)
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barnabywalters anNofMe: if you don’t currently have a personal site at all, the best place to start is to set up a simple static HTML profile page
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barnabywalters and then figure out how to go from there depending on what your priorities are (i.e. what itches you want to scratch the most)
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barnabywalters anNofMe: some people here use github pages, and have documented their experiences here http://indiewebcamp.com/Github
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anNofMe barnabywalters: thanks!
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KevinMarks UK govt want open standards for emergency messages http://standards.data.gov.uk/challenge/public-emergency-alert-messaging
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KevinMarks Sounds like POSSE?
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barnabywalters protip: to find out about X, first look at indiewebcamp.com/X, or ask Loqi like this:
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barnabywalters what is Github?
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Loqi http://indiewebcamp.com/Github
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anNofMe barnabywalters: I’m at the point where I have a static html page up (kescobo.github.io) and I’m working on getting it redirected to my personal url
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barnabywalters anNofMe: nice! what’s your personal URL?
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anNofMe annof.me
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anNofMe also kevinbonham.com (that’s currently squarespace-generated), but I’m trying the indieweb thing in this new space
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tantek Geojson - what are the use cases it's good for?
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aaronpk so I'm going with the GeoJSON option described here http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2014/06/01/1/long-term-archiving-of-gps-logs##GeoJSON+Features
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aaronpk GeoJSON for a number of reasons: 1) it's easy to visualize in mapping libraries like Leaflet
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aaronpk 2) it has a way to attach arbitrary properties to points, which is where I store data like speed, battery %, walking/running/driving/etc
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bear i'm curious about your flat file db with indexing aaronpk - I would love to implement that instead of rolling my own
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tantek 1) Programmer convenience, ok, sounds good for an ephemeral/intermediate/cache format. But not storage.
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aaronpk I can't think of any better format for long-term archiving of this data
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willnorris in case anyone wants to try out Google Domains, I’ve now got a few invites I can share. I’m sure some people won’t want to host their domain with Google, which is totally fine… but I’ve really appreciated the simplicity of the interface.
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aaronpk one-row-per-line in this file has some great properties as well. I tried to capture a lot of the reasoning/motivations/background in that article.
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aaronpk each record gets a built-in ID, which is the filename and line number
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aaronpk so my "database IDs" become things like "2014/05/02.json#130"
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aaronpk barnabywalters: here's what my spatial index looks like as files on disk https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/edb21402ab1d9168ba3e
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bret willnorris cool!
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bret are you involved in that project?
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willnorris nope, just a big fan of it for obvious reasons :)
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bret yeah happy to see google taking that seriosly
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barnabywalters aaronpk: interesting — so given a point, you figure out which bounding box it would be in, see if a file for that box exists and then look in there
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aaronpk for inserting?
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bret willnorris do you know anything about google doing ssl certs in the future?
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barnabywalters aaronpk: inserting or searching
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aaronpk you always have to start at the top of the tree to insert
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aaronpk so you first start with 0,0,360,180 and check if it's full. if it's full, find out which child contains the point (nw,ne,sw,se) and insert into the child
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willnorris bret: not anything that I’m aware of, but I would certainly *love* for us to get into that. It certainly seems like something we would do eventually, but no idea of actual plans to do so
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aaronpk so it's a recursive process because the same process repeats on the child node
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aaronpk p.s. I've got a couple of coupons for 1 year free of hosting at Bluehost if anyone is interested
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anNofMe was just looking at bluehost - all of the upselling they were trying to do was a bit off-putting
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anNofMe but it’s hard to beat free i suppose
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anNofMe anyone have any experience using amazon S3 for static web-pages?
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bear anNofMe - http://indiewebcamp.com/Amazon_S3
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cweiske does anyone know the current state of web intents?
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tantek cweiske see indiewebcamp.com/webactions
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cweiske that page tells me that IWC again reinvents the wheel.
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cweiske but what is the state of web intents?
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tantek cweiske except that web intents never actually worked from a user perspective. hard to reinvent a dead-end square wheel.
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tantek so you're wrong about "again" and about "reinvents" and about "wheel"
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cweiske I should have known better than to ask here
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tantek cweiske - please rephrase
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Loqi yea
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tantek web intents for all practical purposes died when Chrome removed support - ages ago
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cweiske as I read, it added support with chrome29
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tantek I should say, removed *experimental* support because the user experience was horrible
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cweiske which was not too far ago
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Loqi fo sho
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cweiske there was a JS shim, which made it work without browser support
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tantek haha "work" - there was never anything which gave any kind of reasonable user experience with web intents
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tantek that's the problem - it was designed from plumbing up, rather than user experience down
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tantek cweiske last I saw in Chrome was this announcement of removal - almost two years ago: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-intents/2012Nov/0000.html
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tantek brb
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tantek re-reads logs from this morning
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cuibonobo tantek: i was trying out your RelMeAuth page but I can't seem to get it to work with my domain
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cuibonobo "Looks like I can't do anything with the webpage you suggested"
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tantek cuibonobo: yeah it's currently busted due to the relmeauth.php library being out of date with Twitter / OAuth updates :(
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tantek needs to add a "Need Help With" section to User:Tantek.com with relmeauth.php at the top of the list
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cuibonobo tantek: oh! gotcha.
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tantek aaronpk, re: "way to attach arbitrary properties to points, which is where I store data like speed, battery %, walking/running/driving/etc" - those sound like "waypoints" - is that accurate? (rather than just abstract mathematical points)
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gRegor` As a fallback, it works if you enter your twitter URL, correct tantek?
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tantek gRegor`: it should - or if you even enter your @-name - it will auto-fill that
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gRegor` Nice usability
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gRegor` Is relmeauth on github or your wiki, tantek?
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gRegor` s/auth/auth.php/
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Loqi gRegor` meant to say: Is relmeauth.php on github or your wiki, tantek?
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aaronpk Tantek: yes "waypoints", or as they are often called in geo land, "features"
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bnvk aaronpk: is their some feed or way for my personal notes that have #IndieWeb in them to get pulled into here from Loqi the way he does for Tweets?
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Loqi who, me?
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aaronpk I need to make Loqi a pubsub subscriber
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aaronpk Then you'd just ping your hub
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bnvk yah
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bnvk ok, that answer is it then :)
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aaronpk Do you publish a lot of #indieweb notes that you don't push to twitter?
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bnvk hrm some here and there
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bnvk I want to post less random #Indieweb specific tweets out to Twitter
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aaronpk Loqi should subscribe to everyone's sites listed on /irc-people
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bnvk as that is a broader audience and I don't get much positive engagement from strangers on Twitter, mostly only people in this community already
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aaronpk Yeah. There's definitely a few things I've not pushed to twitter for that reason
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bret cweiske do you read http://www.heise.de ?
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bret germany has awesome tech journalism
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cweiske seldomly. I stopped years ago after the signal/noise ratio decreased too much
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bnvk here's an interface idea for webmention conversations that I just snatched from Android's new interface http://bnvk.me/aB4
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aaronpk Nice
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barnabywalters bnvk: twitter does that also
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bnvk twitters threading is screwy tho
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bnvk I can never tell what they do
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bnvk is it my followers?
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tantek gRegor`: relmeauth.php is on gh yes
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bnvk I feel like they by default just hide comments after X number of posts
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barnabywalters oh is the android thing more sophisticated?
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tantek gRegor`: but yes the part I'm proud of personally is the "URL" input element which I've scripted into allowing 1) URLs without http (auto-completes to http), 2) @-names (auto-completes to https://twitter.com/@-name - and that's in the index.php etc. - also in the github
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bnvk barnabywalters: I have no idea- I was just thinking for webmentions / social media noisy conversations in general
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bnvk would help with filtering out unwanted noise
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tantek gRegor`: https://github.com/themattharris/RelMeAuth/
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tantek aaronpk, re: « yes "waypoints", or as they are often called in geo land, "features" », sounds like there are use-cases now for publishing a *visible* series of waypoints in HTML, and if we can document those, we can figure out how an "h-waypoint" microformat would work for real world publishing use-cases.
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tantek aaronpk, also lol at geo land overloading of the word "features", classic.
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aaronpk oh there's so much overloading of terminology, don't even get me started ;)
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aaronpk tantek: i've been working on getting my bike rides up on my site: http://aaronparecki.com/metrics/2014/07/10/231407/
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anNofMe Congrats to me! Only took me ~2 hours to get up my index page :-/ http://annof.me/
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bnvk anNofMe: congrats :)
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tantek anNofMe: awesome!!
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barnabywalters anNofMe: nice work! looks like the DNS hasn’t updated for me yet so I can’t see your beautiful site :)
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cuibonobo anNofMe: good job! :)
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tantek aaronpk - this is sweet! http://aaronparecki.com/metrics/2014/07/10/231407/
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aaronpk thanks!
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anNofMe barnabywalters: just put it through like 2 minutes ago, so
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anNofMe …I’m not surprised
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aaronpk tantek: I also show a png version of the map before the JS loads http://aaronparecki.com/metrics/2014/07/10/231407/files/full.png
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aaronpk which is also the "u-photo" property of the post
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tantek wow that's really well thought out!
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anNofMe but now I have to get to do actual work - thanks for the help all… hopefully more will come soon
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aaronpk and when in a list view like this, it only shows the PNG versions so you don't get a crapload of JS maps slowing down your browser http://aaronparecki.com/metrics/bikeride
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tantek have you thought about POSSEing to a special @aaronpk_rides Twitter? (like adactio segments his POSSEing by post type?)
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aaronpk I think that'd be a fun idea
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tantek since you could send the image to Twitter too
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tantek or @aaronpk_metrics if you want to lump them all together
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aaronpk right now I just have random things at @pkbot but that's more like your @t_silos account, it's not POSSE
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tantek reads http://aaronparecki.com/metrics
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tantek this is beautiful
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aaronpk scroll back a few pages to where the rides are http://aaronparecki.com/metrics?before=2014-07-11-180612
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tantek whoa how does your sleep posting interface know how to distinguish "Napped" from "Slept"?!? http://aaronparecki.com/metrics/2014/07/13/163301/
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aaronpk it's just based on duration :)
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tantek nice :)
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aaronpk a cheap trick, but effective
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tantek have you thought about PESOSing your data out of Nike+ also? E.g. https://twitter.com/t_silos/status/493422665000951808 (try the go.nike permashortlink, extra points for decoding what base 1br6b34 is - looks algorithmic)
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@t_silos SF Half Marathon finished just short of PR with 1 BR break I just ran 21.2 km @ a 6'47"/km pace with Nike+. https://secure-nikeplus.nike.com/plus/activity/running/detail/4663000000006938913130064223895097862432?external_share_id=F45DE7B2-5F89-4B2A-82BF-623D806FA1FC #nikeplus (twitter.com/_/status/493422665000951808)
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tantek fascinating that Loqi expands the go-nike-com permashortlink like that
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aaronpk I don't use Nike+
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aaronpk yeah I made loqi un-shorten URLs in tweets here
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aaronpk rather than a whitelist of domains to un-shorten, it just follows all redirects
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tantek makes sense
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tantek better chance of archiving actual permalinks here in the log
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aaronpk yep
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aaronpk except for the issue with youtube urls which I still don't understand
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barnabywalters aaronpk: your metrics look a bit weird in feed readers: http://shrewdness.waterpigs.co.uk/test/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faaronparecki.com%2Fmetrics — I wonder if this is a legitimate use of u-logo property for the metric-specific logos, and using u-photo for content photos e.g. sleep graphs in this example
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barnabywalters e.g. if a post gives a u-logo property it could be shown as a little icon in the top right
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bnvk somehow, that feed reminds of Ward's Smallest Federated Wiki
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barnabywalters bnvk: SFW is a big inspiration for me
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aaronpk barnabywalters: yeah interesting
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aaronpk ohh that's a bug actually, which will cause a different issue with your reader if i fix it
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aaronpk oh nvm I see what happened
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aaronpk I should just take out u-photo from that post type icon. it's leftover from when I copied that code cause that's normally where my face is for notes
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Loqi I agree
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barnabywalters aaronpk: if you’re up for changing the icon classnames to u-logo I’ll update shrewdness to show them as post icons
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aaronpk yeah I can do that... am I using u-logo anywhere else?
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aaronpk probably not huh
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barnabywalters it’s not used very much
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tantek aaronpk - perhaps "u-logo" for those little icons you put on each metrics post?
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barnabywalters tantek: we were just discussing that :)
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tantek will be interesting how indie readers decide to show u-logo vs. u-photo
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barnabywalters even u-photo is published inconsistently enough that I’ve had do to some simple checks to ensure it’s presented sensibly, e.g. if a u-photo property is given, check to see if the same string is found in content, and only show the photo separately if it’s not already in the content
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aaronpk yeah making readers is hard... so many edge cases to deal with.
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tantek barnabywalters: why not still show u-photo in "summary" / list views?
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tantek (where presumably the summary / list item view is only text)
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barnabywalters tantek: well if only the summary is shown, and it doesn’t contain the photo, then yes it would make perfect sense to show the image separately
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aaronpk ooh nice barnabywalters!
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barnabywalters aaronpk: looking good!
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aaronpk this is looking sharp now http://shrewdness.waterpigs.co.uk/test/?url=http://aaronparecki.com/metrics?before=2014-07-11-180612
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barnabywalters aaronpk: thanks
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barnabywalters fights the urge to take advantage of this to add logos to ALL THE POSTS
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aaronpk i like that idea a lot
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aaronpk especially cause I already have logos for all my posts
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tantek barnabywalters: looks good!
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tantek one minor presentational tweak I'd suggest
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tantek put the logo inline right before the text
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bret is anyone else going to http://testthewebforward.org/blog/2014/06/06/portland-event-announcement.html ?
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aaronpk tantek: how does that work with multiline posts then? I've had a hard time with icons inline
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aaronpk also what if there is no text
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tantek there should always be some text alternate for the icon
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tantek and in the case of your metrics posts, having the icon *right before* the text makes even more sense
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aaronpk wait i'm confused
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aaronpk what text are you talking about?
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tantek digs up the emoji page so he can demostrate
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barnabywalters tantek: if you’re referring to the content text of the post, in my experience there’s really too much variation in post bodies for it to always look good
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barnabywalters if the logo was put inline
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aaronpk agreed, i've had the same experience
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barnabywalters also I don’t want to mess with people’s post content except for doign security/performance tweaks
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@panjidrama Vous ai-je déjá parlé de indiewebcamp ? Quoi qu’il en soit, une bonne introduction ici : https://medium.com/@veganstraightedge/no-more-sharecropping-9d0e36524dbf (twitter.com/_/status/493850019221741568)
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tantek 🌜Slept from 12:41am to 6:50am (5 hrs 53 min) ...
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barnabywalters if authors want the logo to be displayed inline in the content, they can already — just put it in the content
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barnabywalters otherwise, I’ll put it somewhere I know it has a good chance of looking good
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tantek 🚲 Evening Ride
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tantek 🚙 Drove 3.2 miles in 25 minutes
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barnabywalters tantek: http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4X8APg/ is similar
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aaronpk here's an example of where that wouldn't work http://shrewdness.waterpigs.co.uk/test/?url=http://caseorganic.com/notes
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aaronpk photos with no text
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tantek 💪 Did 13pushups
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aaronpk (side note, the php parser seems to be ignoring the space between by two <data> tags there)
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barnabywalters there are enough edge cases in feed parsing already, I don’t want to introduce more :)
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tantek 👣 Weighed 153.3lbs (69.6kg) 17.8% body fat
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tantek ok I think that's the full set :)
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aaronpk are you putting emoji in irc? I don't see them in my iTerm window :)
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tantek see how the icon works both as a quick mnemonic for what the post is about ?
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KartikPrabhu I don't see any either :P
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aaronpk tantek: how wuld you handle a photo with no text in that case? There's no good spot to put a little camera icon then.
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-28#t1406577897
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tantek you should be able to see those emojis in FF
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aaronpk and safari
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aaronpk but not chrome
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KartikPrabhu tantek: nope. not in FF on Ubuntu
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barnabywalters I see them fine in Colloquy
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tantek barnabywalters: ok then you get what I mean in terms of where to put the icon relative to the text
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barnabywalters tantek: yep, above acknowledgement and counter-argument still apply :)
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aaronpk and I still agree with barnabywalters' counter-arguments
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barnabywalters it looks good and is effective. it would be a good choice for authors to publish that sort of content
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tantek I wouldn't bother with putting a u-logo on a photo post - the photo post is already sufficiently iconic!
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tantek aaronpk, also - the emojis I gave you above would be good for POSSEing different kinds of metrics posts to @aaronpk_metrics
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aaronpk if barnaby is showing the post type icon next to the date like he is now then I would totally publish a u-logo for my photos
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cuibonobo i actually like where the reader puts the icon -- it keeps the 'meta' separate from the 'content'
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aaronpk ah yeah adding those emoji to the twitter posse version would be fun
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tantek I wouldn't publish a photo icon because it doesn't add any meaning - it's already obvious it's a photo, and a photo icon just adds noise to the UX
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tantek cuibonobo: if it's visible, it's not meta, it *is* content
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barnabywalters yeah, same with notes and article posts — adding icons would be superfluous
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tantek actual meta is stuff that's truly invisible (in nearly all cases) like EXIF data on those images
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tantek barnabywalters: exactly
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tantek it would detract from the experience
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aaronpk I have icons for articles, presentations and events here http://aaronparecki.com/tag/indieweb
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cuibonobo tantek: meta is information *about* my content rather than the content itself. doesn't matter if it's visible or not
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tantek cuibonobo: problem with that definition, depending on "about", is that most content is "about" something, which makes most content "meta" which then makes the definition not very useful
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tantek you get lost in a semantic trap where nearly everything becomes meta
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tantek same problem with the annotations crowd, where they start thinking everything is an annotation
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tantek and then meta and annotation become synonyms to them
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tantek which makes them both less useful as terms (given such definitions)
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cuibonobo tantek: lol. if i say, "i disagree" <-- it's "about" your statement, but still what *i* want to say. whereas the timestamp, while still visible, is "meta"
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aaronpk really? seems pretty straightforward to me. the content is the stuff that I surround with my e-content tag. everything else is meta, like the author, date, etc
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tantek aaronpk - rather than calling them meta (and making any such judgment) we just call them properties
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aaronpk calling it meta is passing judgment on the data?
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tantek yes - it's saying it's not content
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tantek from a user perspective
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tantek "meta" is often used to characterize information which the user doesn't care to save, doesn't care if it's lost etc.
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aaronpk I've never heard it characterized that way before...
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tantek so I prefer a user-centric definition - if it's visible and the user cares about it, it's content from their perspective, not meta
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tantek regardless of any "aboutness"
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tantek (which was always a dubious / useless distinction anyway)
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tantek barnabywalters: I notice when I view selection source on the Reply button in your reader view that it says: <div class="item-actions"><button class="reply-button">Reply</button></div> - looks like a good place to put a reply webaction!
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indie-visitor howdy. I want to come along to the IndieWeb2014 2 day meet up in Brighton after dConstruct, but not sure how to categorise myself :) I'm a developer for others, keen web standards advocate, and run an event to help others learn about UX (uxoxford.com) however hardly ever blog, and sadly most of my code for work isn't open (although I want to start contributing). Am I a creator/blogger/or apprentice? thanks :) Al
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barnabywalters tantek: that might be a good temporary measure, or if the logged in user hasn’t granted have micropub access
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cuibonobo tantek: the most useful metric may be, "can the user understand this post if i remove this information"
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barnabywalters tantek: if the user has granted micropub access, for many post types I can offer a better UX by writing an integrated UI
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tantek why temporary? why not include <action do="reply" with="permalinkURL"> ?
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aaronpk barnabywalters: how do I log in?
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barnabywalters aaronpk: currently, you don’t :)
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aaronpk oh
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barnabywalters tantek: for reason given above
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barnabywalters greetings indie-visitor!
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tantek cuibonobo: that seems like a harsh distinction, as a user can understand many posts even if you strip all formatting, and photos, and yet, they care that those are lost
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indie-visitor Hello! came here via the IndieWeb website and wasn't sure how to log in as me
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barnabywalters indie-visitor: if you have a personal site which you can add rel-me markup to (allowing you to log into the wiki) then you’re a creator
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tantek and photos in a post are typically considered part of the content, even though the user may still understand the post if they're removed
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barnabywalters indie-visitor: see http://indiewebcamp.com/How_to_set_up_web_sign-in_on_your_own_domain for a how-to
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tantek barnabywalters: I think indie-visitor means here in IRC
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tantek indie-visitor: type /nick yournamehere
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alpower ah thanks
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tantek welcome alpower !
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cuibonobo tantek: as i'm sure they would care if you removed the logos from aaronpk's feed, but that's not the information he's trying to convey
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alpower yep - I wasn't sure how to categorise myself for indieweb, but barnabywalters has kindly helped me out - need to go off and add rel tags to alpower.com now :)
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tantek cuibonobo: most things can be relegated to short plain text and retain meaning, doesn't mean that the other stuff is not content
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tantek even the icons provide a quick scannable summary of the post
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tantek nice site alpower !
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tantek check out http://indiewebify.me/validate-rel-me/?url=alpower.com
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barnabywalters off to climb, goodnight all
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Loqi ciao
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cuibonobo tantek: look at how you make the date tiny in your own feed. you're demoting its importance because the date is not the thing you're actually trying to say.
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cuibonobo i'm not saying the date *isn't* useful.
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cuibonobo but it's not what you're trying to convey
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tantek cuibonobo: just because there's information hierarchy and some things are more or less important does not mean they are not content.
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tantek nor does it mean I'm not trying to convey them
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tantek content is full of such progressive disclosure
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tantek welcome indie-visitor ! set your name by typing /nick yournamehere
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indie-visitor thanks - this is alpower shifting to my laptop :)
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indie-visitor not sure I can have the same nick
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tantek cuibonobo: datetime for example is often *crucial* to the meaning of an utterance. as is other what me be considered "contextual" information like location, or mood (smiley graphics)
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tantek alpower-mobile: there you go. have also seen -laptop -pod etc.
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cuibonobo tantek: sure! but that's the context of what i'm saying. not what i'm saying.
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tantek my point is the context often adds so much to the meaning that it becomes the meaning, or a large portion of it
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tantek so attempting to separate it is typically futile
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tantek or worse, lossy
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tantek from a content perspective. and lossy content treatment is bad.
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bear for people consuming something context+data *is* the meaning
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tantek precisely bear
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cuibonobo so what is meta?
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bear so we need to make sure data is always present and let the viewing layer decide how to order or prioritize the data - by querying the meta-data
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tantek cuibonobo: see above, invisible.
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tantek whether the publisher presents it visibly or not is the only real way to judge if the information matters to the message or not
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tantek if it's visibly presented, then the publisher intends for it to be a meaningful part of the content / expression
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tantek if it's not visible presented, then the publisher thinks it is not relevant to the message
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tantek hence EXIF example which typically is not visible presented
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tantek but the overly simplistic "meta = about" fails the user-centric test of definitions and discussion and perspective
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tantek aaronpk - have you considered providing a text fallback representation of your bicycling path waypoints for the images of your paths? E.g. the way we have text fallback for the dialog in indie comics: http://indiewebcamp.com/comics for the images of the comics
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aaronpk hmm
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aaronpk image fallback is all i've done so far
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aaronpk I could make a text version of it that said something like "biked from x to y"
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cuibonobo tantek: meta = invisible?? that is totally made-up. c'mon now.
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alpower-mobile I guess 'meta' can be machine readable but invisible to a person consuming a webpage say, but still meaningful
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KartikPrabhu cuibonobo: I understand what you mean in terms of 'heirarchy'
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tantek cuibonobo: nope, not totally made up, but rather, in practice from <html> <meta>
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tantek but yes, the concept of "meta" is not particularly useful in practice
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tantek aaronpk - such a fall back "biked from x to y" would lose a lot of information
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bear don't focus on the small nits or details of what is meta or not - anything can be meta at many levels
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tantek just as a comic image summary that was just one sentence (and no dialog) would be very lossy
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bear meta is just additional data to help decide what is required for a view - one part of the data could be meta to another but all of it is data to something
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tantek bear - that's the problem. anything can be meta / about / an annotation and therefore the meta itself is meaningless
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tantek there is no meta, it's just all data
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bear thinks tantek and him are in loud agreement ;)
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aaronpk tantek: what did you have in mind as a text version of the route?
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bear yes - meta is a marker to help dev types relegate some data
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tantek aaronpk - similar to how Google maps directions tells you what to do, your route can say what you *have* done
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tantek e.g. when gmaps directions says to walk from x to y for z meters, then take bus nn from stop AA to stop BB, then walk from c to d for e meters
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aaronpk ha
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aaronpk that would be hilarious
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tantek you just use past tense versions of the verbs
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tantek :)
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aaronpk and really hard
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tantek really? seems like you could automate from your GeoJSON
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aaronpk reverse-geocoding to reasonable named things is hard
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tantek gmaps directions sometimes even gives time estimates for each step
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tantek where you could provide time *measurements* for each step
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tantek on n.m. the reverse-geocoding
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tantek in "walk from x to y for z meters" let x and y be lat/long(/altitude)
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tantek each
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aaronpk ha that doesn't sound very human-readable
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cuibonobo aaronpk: i was just gonna say that
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tantek there is precedent for publishing of raw lat long
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tantek so people *are* doing it
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tantek it's a start - it's not *the most* human readable. but it is a start.
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aaronpk the most precise human-readable locations are intersections
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tantek you could add reverse geo-coding later, or even decide to annotate later with venus
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bear raises tongue-in-cheek flag
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tantek s/venus/venues
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Loqi tantek meant to say: you could add reverse geo-coding later, or even decide to annotate later with venues
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bear do it as ascii art directions
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tantek nice
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aaronpk ascii art version of the map? lol
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tantek I think I've played that game
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bear :)
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bear goes back to lurking and actually helping fix things
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tantek is there an maptiles server that serves ASCII tiles?
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tantek would be really fast to render!
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tantek ;)
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aaronpk I know a couple people who were using ascii tiles to embed data in map tiles
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tantek suggests bright lime green on black background as default, then you could pitch it as the "matrix code" view
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tantek somewhere someone at Google has to have made a green terminal screen version of google maps using all those VT100 control characters etc. to do the display
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bear or as a series of nethack style hex map items
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tantek bear see above about "I've played that game" - hack/nethack is what I was referring to ;)
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bear ah
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aaronpk the answer is apparently yes https://vtllf.org/blog/vector-tile-ascii
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aaronpk https://github.com/duncankl/vector-tile-ascii "Because it should be possible to download and view a single tile without configuring a massive Mapnik-based rendering infrastructure."
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aaronpk +1
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cuibonobo that is wonderful
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tantek that looks like LEGO
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tantek aaronpk - this is more like what I'm talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD0eNN4F6P4
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aaronpk has watched a version of the matrix that looked like that
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bear :)
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benwerd idly wonders if there's an Ultima tileset somewhere
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tantek http://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/51788/good-technological-solutions-to-build-an-ascii-map-and-moving-characters-in-a-br
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tantek http://tapiov.net/unicodetiles.js/tests/functional-all-examples.html
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bear rot.js is very populare for that as it's used by all of the rogue game clone folks
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bear ughs at all of the typos his brain is generating today
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tantek "map" and "terminal" are too overloaded for search to be useful for this :/
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KartikPrabhu does anyone else have trouble uploading photos to Twiter?
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aaronpk how bout this http://aaronparecki.com/uploads/portland-ascii-20140728-140756.png
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tantek aaronpk - that's a great start!
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tantek I assume that's going from raster image through a raster->ASCII converter?
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tantek wonders how good a map data to ASCII renderer could do
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aaronpk it's a png->ascii converter from this image http://aaron.pk/G2L
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aaronpk the vector tile one I linked would do a better job
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bear KartikPrabhu - are you using the new 2-step photo upload process that twitter-dev blogged about this spring? https://dev.twitter.com/docs/api/multiple-media-extended-entities
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KartikPrabhu bear: ehh no... just "add photo" that comes in while composing a Tweet
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KartikPrabhu the spinner goes on forever and then ultimately does nothing
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bear ohhh - sorry, I have zero experience with the twitter web UI
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@funnymonkey @audreywatters All the more reason why Reclaim Your Domaim/Indieweb is necessary. (twitter.com/_/status/493866971621240832)
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aaronpk looks like it'd be relatively easy to customize the characters and colors used in that ascii tile renderer https://github.com/duncankl/vector-tile-ascii/blob/master/index.js#L11
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tantek aaronpk - yeah I was thinking more like using actual ASCII lines to draw the vectors like streets and other features _/”¾\_
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tantek rather than just ASCII pixelation (not that interesting)
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aaronpk heh
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bear especially with this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Box_Drawing_(Unicode_block)
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tantek exactly!
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KevinMarks_ that would work for a lot of US cities, not so much for the uk
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KevinMarks_ reads logs
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aaronpk there's an awful lot of curvy roads in pdx too, and at weird angles with all the bridges
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KevinMarks_ the metadata/data distinction got very political recently, with govts claiming metadata was not PII
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bear yea, for old world streets we would have to put up with diagonal tiles not having linked lines
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bear what is PII
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KevinMarks_ if you want a concrete refutation, look at Yo! - there is not data so the only thing that conveys information is from who and time
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KevinMarks_ Personally Identifiable Information
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bear of course a govt would not want meta data declared as PII - then they are allowed to store and search it without a warrent
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aaronpk darn, that didn't work as well as expected. I tried running my GPS logs through the arcgis directions API to generate a list of text instructions for the route. but it didn't work super well.
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aaronpk too much GPS noise causing weird detours, and also it doesn't know i'm on a bike.
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KevinMarks_ do you autodetect cycling, or do you manually hit stop/start buttons?
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aaronpk so far it's all explicit tracking via runkeeper
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bear can you map your geo data as waypoints - to filter them down to smaller chunks - and then run that thru the api?
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aaronpk and strava (but i'm switching to runkeeper)
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aaronpk bear: that's exactly what I did :)
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KevinMarks_ google attempts to detect cycling, but it seems to undercount a lot
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aaronpk bear: view source on http://aaronparecki.com/metrics/2014/07/10/081442/ and search for LineString
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KevinMarks_ also the google data doesn't just have gps noise, it has mad teleports due to wifi geolocation being wrong
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aaronpk that's the simplified line that describes the path, generated from the raw gps logs using the ramer douglas peucker algorithm
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bear right - so I would try to find out what street each of those gps points are and then throw away any that are the same for it's neighbors
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bear until you are left with only changes in streets
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aaronpk there's still the gps noise problem tho
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aaronpk zoom in on the part of that route before the red dot
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bear which one is the red dot
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aaronpk marker, not dot, sorry
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bear I see two markers - which one is red
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bear <-- colour blind
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aaronpk oh wow sorry...
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aaronpk top left
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bear oh - I see where it goes into the buildings
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aaronpk so i'm biking up Oak St, but there's a point on 2nd ave and then again near 5th
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KevinMarks_ I get that with google's spoken directions on the bike. It will occasioanlly snap onto the cross street (like yours did at sw 2nd) and tell me to turn left onto the street I'm on
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aaronpk KevinMarks_: that's good to know that even the pros have this problem :)
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KevinMarks_ there is a lot of code going on to smooth gps to streets
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KevinMarks_ the best way to see this is to get google maps to give you driving directions, then get on a train
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bear I would imagine that those are outliers if you go with a filter and only change streets if the outliers remain constant for more than n points
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KevinMarks_ it will snap to every road near the railway line in turn, making up new ways to drive away from it
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bear I can see that happening if they are trying to filter for routes that fit the vehicle type
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bear bike/walk vs car vs train
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KevinMarks_ right, but even if you ask it for transit directions it doesn't understand the concept of being on a train or bus
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bear ouch
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KevinMarks_ it'll tell you to walk to the next or previous station and get another train
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aaronpk oh yeah it always assumes you need to walk to the station first
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aaronpk so someone did it... http://yoauth.herokuapp.com/
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KevinMarks_ which messed me up in portland when I got on a bus going the wrong way
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aaronpk I think I can use this for indieauth
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aaronpk so anyway, text maps are hard
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aaronpk and text routes
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aaronpk I could do a version like "Walked 200 feet from 45.506491,-122.654948 to 45.506563,-122.658619 in 30 seconds" for each pair of points in that route
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KevinMarks_ "crossed the street like a madman and biked through 2 people's gardens before crossing back again"
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aaronpk I could send the route to Jarvis and have them transcribe it as text https://jarv.co/
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aaronpk since their plans include unlimited <15-minute tasks
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tantek aaronpk that "Walked 200 feet from…" sounds like a good start
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tantek and I think you can use similar embedded markup that we used for /comics
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KevinMarks_ you could send the points to google maps and ask it to make directions for each leg
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aaronpk I guess I just don't see the benefit of the text version unless it's actually human-readable
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KevinMarks_ assuming you can find the legs
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Loqi erinjo: tantek left you a message 3 days ago: if you're interested in giving a talk about IndieWeb sometime 2014-10-20..24, in particular how you've built or setup your own indieweb site, check this out and make a proposal! http://html5devconf.com/cfs-oct2014.html - feel free to mention that Tantek recommended you make a proposal (I was on their speaker board for a while) - and that offer is open to
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aaronpk KevinMarks_: that's basically what I just tried, the problem is generating the list of legs that isn't full of errors
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KevinMarks_ right
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tantek aaronpk - there is precedent for use of lat long in human visible content
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tantek e.g. http://lhc-first-beam.web.cern.ch/lhc-first-beam/practical.html
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tantek "GPS: 46°13'59'' N
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tantek 6°3'20'' E"
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tantek and note that that's in a section with heading "Practical information" :)
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tantek so clearly lat long coordinates in text are human readable to at least *some* humans, and perceived to be human readable to even more, sufficiently so to publish them like that.
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KartikPrabhu ha! I wonder who reads GPS coordinates and thinks "I know where that is"
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aaronpk raises his hand sheepishly
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: ok you've also been logging your location every 15 mins or so
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aaronpk every second
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KartikPrabhu oh well... no wonder you know how to read and decipher GPS
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KartikPrabhu for me, GPS coordinates can be read, but they don't mean anything
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KevinMarks_ so, nuclear physicists and aaronpk are our test users
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks_ even nuclear physicists can't decipher them without an instrument
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KevinMarks_ or a map
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KartikPrabhu yeah.
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KevinMarks_ grid references are a time-honoured way, geopoints are a generalisation
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KartikPrabhu most people I know can't follow directions like "turn East"
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KevinMarks_ I hate it when google maps says that to me when I'm on my bike
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KartikPrabhu they don't know where "East" is in their city
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KartikPrabhu see. Absolute directions are hard and not useful to most people
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benwerd Does anyone have any advice on buying UC certs? Mostly I'm wondering about providers
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KevinMarks_ my reaction is "you have a compass in, I don't
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aaronpk what is a UC cert?
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benwerd multi-domain
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benwerd SSL for lots of domains
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KevinMarks_ my watch has a compass in, but it complains I'm too near metal when I try it
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks_ : lol
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aaronpk benwerd: oh hm, I always just go to namecheap.com and get the cheapest one
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tommorris KevinMarks said: "google data doesn't just have gps noise, it has mad teleports due to wifi geolocation being wrong" - wifi geolocation nonsense is why I carry a dedicated GPS, and GPS noise is why OSM requires that humans look at GPS tracks and apply their brain to the result. ;-)
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aaronpk https://www.namecheap.com/security/ssl-certificates/multi-domain.aspx
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aaronpk looks like $30/yr for multi-domain up to 100 which seems totally reasonable
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tommorris as for human-readable lat-longs - I'd like to note that producing awesome reverse geocoding is a hard problem, especially if you don't have a Google sized budget.
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KartikPrabhu anyone know how does Twitter decide whether to send a new follower notification or not?
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aaronpk tommorris: the best reverse geocoder I used was SimpleGeo when I specifically asked them to make a reverse geocoder that returned intersection names
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aaronpk they already had the OSM infrastructure and pipeline set up, so they built a new table containing each intersection as a point from the raw OSM streets, then could find the nearest intersection using that table
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bret is there a list of specs/tech that do things like webactions/webintents?
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bret or timeline i should say
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tommorris aaronpk: that works great... but not in London. ;-)
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KevinMarks_ that's a good idea for US cities
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tommorris yeah, it'd be awesome for NYC.
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KevinMarks_ foursquare's is good if you are going to a business
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tommorris that's part of the problem is the way you end up producing a good reverse geocoder is you need to tweak it for each different country
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aaronpk I wonder if it'd be worth me setting up my own mini version that works only for portland
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aaronpk cause at least it would work in portland, and wouldn't need to be updated very often
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bret ya ya
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KartikPrabhu anyone know a good epub reader for desktops (linux) ?
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KevinMarks_ tommorris: or for different people. eg this idea again: http://thebloggess.com/2009/09/im-pretty-sure-its-pronounced-wesley-ann/
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tantek tommoris re: having to tweak per country - wasn't OSM supposed to solve that?
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bret pdxgeolookupthingy++
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Loqi pdxgeolookupthingy has 1 karma
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tantek bret - that "is there a list of specs/tech that do things like " is a pretty broadly ambiguous question, care to refine it?
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KevinMarks_ google maps is actually trying to build this by putting points on the map related to places you've been
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tantek like, what's the use-case you're trying to address?
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KevinMarks_ I always get a "tantek" point in SF
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aaronpk hm OSM export feature didn't work
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tommorris tantek: well, kinda. OSM is just a big database. the main OSM reverse geocoder - Nominatim - has some issues. I should probably work out how to hack on Nominatim
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tommorris aaronpk: XAPI. ;)
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aaronpk I don't know what that means
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KevinMarks_ so if you make foursquare locations for "that abandoned building that looks like it’s owned by Branch-Davidians"
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tommorris aaronpk: it's the way to get large-scale XML output from OSM
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KevinMarks_ you could reverse geocode using their API
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aaronpk aw but they have a nice Export button on top
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tantek ooh "large scale XML output". /me steps back slowly.
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tommorris KevinMarks_: problem there is the copyright. OSM is freely licensed, 4sq isn't
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aaronpk tantek: you would probably run away in terror if you know what goes on under the hood with OSM
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KevinMarks_ is that like the 256M geojson file that google takeout helpfully gave me?
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tantek tommorris: you could argue that if you created the venue, you're the author, and did not give up copyright
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tommorris tantek: and 4sq's lawyers would point to the T&Cs that nobody but them have read and which they can probably modify at will
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tommorris the copyright lawyers for silos tend to be quite good.
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tantek a-ha - another TOS data-entrapment scenario!
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tantek s/TOS/silo TOS
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Loqi tantek meant to say: a-ha - another silo TOS data-entrapment scenario!
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tantek tommorris: I doubt they'd care if you just copied the venues you created
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KevinMarks_ a lot of people drive using places they have lived or worked as waypoints
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aaronpk oh cool I got the export of portland
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tantek and then you can point out that their data was IP-dirty to begin with since they seeded it with a Dodgeball venue database dump from Google without permission. OOOPS.
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KevinMarks_ I bet you could compile nicknames that people used for places and build a Bloggess-directions app
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tommorris so, the main issue that I've found difficult with reverse geocoding is neighbourhood/area naming. things like The City, Soho or Fitzrovia (London), Chelsea or West Village or Upper East Side (NYC), or Castro or Mission (SFO) or downtown or financial or whatever.
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KevinMarks_ "Left at that spooky bar that looks like it’s out of Scooby-Doo, left at the place we saw that wild boar that turned out to be a dog, right at the corner where I threw up that one time. Right?"
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KevinMarks_ flickr's using tags to derive those was interesting
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tommorris the casual, fuzzy psychogeography of cities is both fascinating and very, very difficult to place
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KevinMarks_ Swarm keeps telling me I'm in alleged neighbourhoods in San Jose that I don't recogize
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tommorris London example: I checked into a bar just off the Strand. Nominatim told me I was in Chinatown because that's the nearest named area.
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tommorris Swarm/4sq make up some crazy stuff. there's a road near Victoria Street called Warwick Way. It refers to the area around it as "Warwick". which is very odd, because... Warwick is a place in Warwickshire, not London. ;-)
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tommorris it'd be like if you checked into somewhere in Oxford Street and it told you that you were in Oxford.
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tommorris Google Maps is interesting: it reckons "Carnaby" (as in Carnaby Street) is an area of London, but Soho isn't.
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gRegor` KevinMarks_: I literally read that part of Let's Pretend this Never Happened last night. Eerie.
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KevinMarks_ london is pretty much 2000 years of bloggess directions
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KevinMarks_ "fleet street"
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KevinMarks_ which meant "the bit of the strand with newspaper offfices on"
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KevinMarks_ but got its name from a river that used to be there before they put it in a pipe
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tommorris and Fleet Street pretty much doesn't have any major newspapers there anymore since Murdoch moved the Sun/NotW to Wapping, and Associated Newspapers moved to Kensington...
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KevinMarks_ right, but the buildings remain, some of them
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tommorris that said, there is a CofE church there that is the church for printers. :)
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KevinMarks_ which is like down here where they name places after what they cut down to build it
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KevinMarks_ Cherry Orchard Mall
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KevinMarks_ My Irish uncle said there were 2 kinds of people who gave directions, one that was using churches, one that was using pubs as landmarks
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tommorris I went to a Catholic theological college - I'm pretty sure there's an intersection between those two classes.
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tommorris One does not necessitate abstinence from t'other.
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bear i was so glad to stop asking people for directions when mapquest came around - because I could then get answers that did contain colour references … "go up the street until you get to the red house and turn left"
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kartikprabhu.com edited /Google (+114) "/* Exporting From Google */ add takeout" (view diff)
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kartikprabhu.com edited /Google (+0) "/* Exporting From Google */ typo" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /microsyntax (+401) "/* Brainstorming */ add emoji options for metrics, especially for POSSEing to Twitter" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /metrics (+22) "for now, though sleep and weighing is not really exercise" (view diff)
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aaronpk sleep could be considered an exercise ;)
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aaronpk for your brain
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tantek lol
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tantek aaronpk - feel free to rename / reorganize all of that "exericise" / "metrics" pages / stuff
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tantek since you've obviously thought a lot about it, and implemented a LOT more than anyone else
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tantek the latter part being the real proof in the pudding
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KevinMarks_ emoji as tags is interesting
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KevinMarks_ yelp has search by emoji
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tantek it does? no other search engine supports emoji AFAIK
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tantek e.g. google shows zero results
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@EskaComunica Web.mention, la aplicación para monitorizar menciones http://oscarsanfuentes.blogspot.com/2014/07/webmention-la-aplicacion-para.html https://twitter.com/EskaComunica/status/493886156283445248/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/493886156283445248)
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ShaneHudson Eww I hate emoji, especially when used on github... seems so tacky!
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tantek correction: the Wikipedia open search plugin *does* support "search" by emoji
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KevinMarks_ http://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=%E2%99%A5%EF%B8%8E&find_loc=San+Jose%2C+CA&ns=1
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tantek because people have created emoji-redirect pages for all emoji AFAIK
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aaronparecki.com created /♥︎ (+17) "r" (view diff)
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tantek lol
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aaronpk what is ♥︎?
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aaronpk aw
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tantek what is ♥︎?
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tantek I really like the hyperlinks in the table in this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miscellaneous_Symbols_And_Pictographs
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KevinMarks_ the hourly ones could be handy too
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aaronpk let's see if this ends up being a terrible idea
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aaronpk what is ♥︎
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Loqi http://indiewebcamp.com/%E2%99%A5%EF%B8%8E
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KevinMarks_ the latest swiftkey has an option to suggest emoji
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KevinMarks So I type bike and 🚲 is a choice
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KevinMarks What is 🌟?
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gregorlove.com edited /♥︎ (+116) (view diff)
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tantek.com created /💬 (+21) "r" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ weird, in chrome the emoji show in the address bar, but not in the body
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aaronpk whoa i just noticed that too
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johncash theres a chrome emoji extension
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KevinMarks_ they work on chrome android
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johncash https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chromoji-emoji-for-google/cahedbegdkagmcjfolhdlechbkeaieki?hl=en-GB
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bnvk http://yoauth.herokuapp.com/
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KevinMarks_ could you use an emoji as a favicon? that seems a compact way to send it
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tantek.com moved /♥︎ to /baby-dont-hurt-me "lulz"
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tantek what is ♥︎?
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gregorlove.com created /love (+31) "Redirected page to [[baby-dont-hurt-me]]" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /♥ (+31) "r" (view diff)
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gRegor` what is love?
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Loqi "baby don't hurt me . . . " ♫ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhrBDcQq2DM http://indiewebcamp.com/love
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gRegor` :D
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aaronpk i can't wait for someone to accidentally stumble across that
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KartikPrabhu gregornobacktick++
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Loqi gregornobacktick has 7 karma
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bnvk what is going on in here?
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bnvk Haddaway links
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bnvk madness
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johncash haddaway?
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gRegor` s/madness/awesomeness/
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gRegor` Started when I saw aaronpk test Loqi with "what is ♥︎"
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Loqi "baby don't hurt me . . . " ♫ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhrBDcQq2DM http://indiewebcamp.com/%E2%99%A5%EF%B8%8E
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gRegor` Couldn't resist. :)
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gRegor` Lulz
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gRegor` Didn't realize the regex looked anywhere in the sentence.
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tantek.com created /💪 (+22) "r" (view diff)
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bnvk gRegor ;)
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tantek.com created /♺ (+20) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /↩ (+19) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /🐓 (+21) "r" (view diff)
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tantek what is 🐓?
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Loqi chicken is a type of post supported by idno http://indiewebcamp.com/%F0%9F%90%93
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tantek now we're talking
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bnvk omg
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tantek you might say that's a nested joke. ;)
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KartikPrabhu has anyone looked into the accessibility of emoji e.g. screen readers?
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tantek what is a screen reader?
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KartikPrabhu i guess not then :P
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gRegor` tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 55 karma
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tantek.com created /😴 (+19) "r" (view diff)
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bnvk what is a tantek?
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Loqi Tantek Çelik is the co-founder of IndieWebCamp and works on open web standards at Mozilla http://indiewebcamp.com/Tantek
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cuibonobo "chicken is a type of post supported by idno"?
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cuibonobo i love chickens
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cuibonobo tell me more
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KartikPrabhu cuibonobo: http://werd.io/view/51c729a2bed7dee9639c9af7
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tantek.com created /sleep (+459) "stub with indieweb example" (view diff)
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cuibonobo KartikPrabhu: *_* oh man
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KartikPrabhu ha!
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Loqi [mention] http://gregorlove.com/notes/2014/07/28/2/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-28#t1406588146 (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://gregorlove.com/notes/2014/07/28/2/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-28/line/1406588146 (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://gregorlove.com/notes/2014/07/28/2/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-28#t1406588147 (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://gregorlove.com/notes/2014/07/28/2/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-28/line/1406588147 (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://gregorlove.com/notes/2014/07/28/2/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/love (webmention)
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gRegor` Pro-tip: trim out some of the links when quoting chat logs.
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: do you post embeded HTML in notes?
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gRegor` Shh.
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gRegor` whispers "yes"
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tantek cuibonobo: most recently: http://werd.io/2014/untitled-10
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KartikPrabhu whispers back "np"
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tantek.com created /🔒 (+22) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /🌉 (+20) "r" (view diff)
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tantek welcome back snarfed - good timing!
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snarfed tantek: yeah?
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snarfed aaronpk, just fyi, in case you're still looking into that 15m cron job that HEADs brid.gy/log … it also HEADs brid.gy/twitter/SimonCoopey on the same schedule
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tantek snarfed, what is 🌉?
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Loqi Bridgy is an open source project and proxy that implements backfeed as a service http://indiewebcamp.com/%F0%9F%8C%89
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snarfed no way. there's an emoji called bridgy?!?!?
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snarfed wow
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snarfed aaronpk: the only other requests i get from it are for caseorganic's bridgy source urls, so i'm guessing it hosts her p3k instance
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tantek snarfed if you think that's good, try asking what love is
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snarfed wow
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snarfed heh, i see that in the logs, nice
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tantek darn, hard to sneak things on people when they read the logs. ;)
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snarfed oh i see, wiki redirect, not necessarily the title of the emoji
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tantek.com created /🎦 (+19) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /🆔 (+22) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /👍 (+18) "r" (view diff)
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tantek benwerd this one is for you: what is 🐓?
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Loqi chicken is a type of post supported by idno http://indiewebcamp.com/%F0%9F%90%93
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johncash wtf?
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GWG Hello
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johncash how do you post a chicken
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GWG Very carefully?
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benwerd \o/
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gRegor` Use ChickenScript Object Notation.
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benwerd I'm slightly worried that I'm the only person responsible for items referenced under "lulz"
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gregorlove.com created /OkCupid (+1004) "stub / We Experiment on Human Beings! criticism" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /okcupid (+21) "Redirected page to [[OkCupid]]" (view diff)
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www.bmannconsulting.com created /User:Www.bmannconsulting.com (+41) "Created page with "Boris Mann http://www.bmannconsulting.com"" (view diff)
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tantek oh hey - was trying out DuckDuckDuckGo (search engine) and just noticed this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IndieWeb
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gregorlove.com edited /OkCupid (-1) "/* "We Experiment on Human Beings!" */ grammarz" (view diff)
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gRegor` Cool, tantek! Quite new and just the one person editing so far. Interesting.
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gRegor` Is User:RayneVanDunem known to anyone in the community?
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tantek not AFAIK
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gRegor` Forgot my wikipedia password again.
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tantek.com created /🌙 (+19) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /🌟 (+22) "r" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu ok, how is the "experiments" run by OKC or FB different from user testing that websites do anyway?
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tantek.com created /🐔 (+21) "r" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu Is the claim that websites can not/should not selectively alter website features such as say typography and test if it increases user-retention (or any such buzzword metric) ?
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tantek.com created /🍎 (+19) "r" (view diff)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I think in the FB case it was specifically experimenting with sentiment analysis.
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tantek of content - not design
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KartikPrabhu I would think websites which take analytics data do that all the time
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KartikPrabhu "5 new ways to improve your life" or some such title has to come from strange analytics type data
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tantek.com created /🐥 (+21) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /📞 (+19) "r" (view diff)
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gRegor` change in typography/design != changing the data presented to people
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tantek.com created /📱 (+20) "r" (view diff)
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gRegor` Tantek is on an emoji roll