#indiewebcamp 2014-07-30

2014-07-30 UTC
chrissaad and tantek joined the channel
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bret how does snowdrift differ mainly from gittip?
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wolftune my co-founder friend has a decent-paying day job, and he's paying this Masters student to work on Snowdrift.coop full-time over this summer (basically we can only afford effectively minimum wage, but it's something, and the guy is a solid Haskeller happy to work cheap as he loves what we're doing)
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wolftune bret: Gittip is only a little more than a standard subscription donation
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wolftune it's not a new model in any sense
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wolftune it's just a convenient site to do something that has always been available
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wolftune it's not a game changer for funding in any real way
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wolftune it funds people without any particular focus too, so projects can be proprietary (we're exclusively FLO)
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wolftune Snowdrift.coop is a new (untested) economic model for patronage because we're building a network-style matching system to assure that we're all in this together
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wolftune The name comes from the "snowdrift dilemma" which is one of these game theory things about the challenges of addressing collective action, how to get everyone to cooperate to fund public goods
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bret interesting... reading https://snowdrift.coop/p/snowdrift/w/intro again
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wolftune Gittip does nothing substantial to address that dilemma.
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bret no, it does not
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bret it works off of peoples giddyness about git(hub)
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bret :p
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bret ie "i like github so i will like gittip"
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wolftune heh
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wolftune They were originally ONLY allowing anyone to log-in through proprietary silos. And that's what made us most hesitant to think they were even working in the right direction originally
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wolftune now you can log in with Open Street Map though… so that's *something*
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bret yah thats wacky
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wolftune there's some other strangeness about Gittip and the policies and sorta naive wishful approach… I think a lot of it is decent though, I don't hate them
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wolftune there was a big concern lately though. Just around the time of IndieWebCamp, Gittips most successful recipients all left the site
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wolftune http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Gittip_crisis
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bret meh dramma ;)
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wolftune yeah, it was just crappy all around
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wolftune but it had to do with a conflict between their "open" focus and privacy
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wolftune The founder, Chad, wants openness, so he won't talk to anyone privately ever, and that means people can't have their private concerns addressed easily, it means certain voices are absent from the discussion
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bret yay ideology! ;)
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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bret whatever happened to trying to come to consensus
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wolftune we support consensus, but some people believe in some sort of like "do-ocracy" and structurelessness etc.
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bret and thats what I like about the acceptable ads list. you can turn it on or off
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wolftune right
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bret it should probrably just be another list you sub to
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bret some advert board could publish what they think as "good"
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wolftune anyway, I still think they have a place. Gittip is a sort general whatever gifting ongoing system, and since we're really project-focused, FLO-specific, we have a certain niche. We're not trying to fund the social activists that Gittip was funding. We're sad about the drama and problems there. It isn't good for us in any way.
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bret oh yeah,.. thats right... gittip is kinda a big tax dodge too
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bret since its all a "gift"
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wolftune yes
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bret haha forgot about that
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wolftune I've talked to people who go on two sides with this (A) "You should do the gift hack that Gittip does!" (re: Snowdrift.coop), and (B) "Yeah, Gittip is probably totally legally questionable / illegal"
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wolftune but our efforts to be totally legally sound have definitely been one of the many factors that kept us from launching so quick like they did
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KartikPrabhu !tell snarfed: bridgy does not generate mf2 for tweets by people who are not signed up?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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wolftune also, we didn't want to use silo logins
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bret hey rich people do it every day
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wolftune and we didn't want to be stuck reliant on proprietary sites like GitHub for other things
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wolftune and figuring out how to be totally FLO and independent adds a lot of challenges
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wolftune we're doing some uncomfortable wheel-reinventing, but it's been necessary in some ways to have what we need and fit our ideals (which aren't just dogmatic — we think being ideal is key to building community support early on, especially from those who care most)
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wolftune bret: so our compromise is to only have a small set of *requirements* and otherwise just *encourage* ideals (that page I linked to above re: ads and more)
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wolftune obviously the thing is to try to model all the ideals ourselves :P
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aaronparecki.com edited /Gluu (+17) "add dfn markup" (view diff)
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tantek what is snowdrif?
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tantek er, what is snowdrift?
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tantek hmm
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tantek what is gittip?
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Loqi Gittip is a payment system that allows individuals and organizations to receive 'tips' to their gittip account which is associated with a number of different silo accounts such as github, bitbucket, twitter, openstreetmap, etc http://indiewebcamp.com/gittip
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tantek wolftune: could write a brief summary stub like that for indiewebcamp.com/Snowdrift ?
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wolftune sure
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tantek aside: really enjoyed reading https://snowdrift.coop/p/snowdrift/w/intro and https://snowdrift.coop/p/snowdrift/w/snowdrift
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wolftune :D
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tantek definitely need to link to /Snowdrift from http://indiewebcamp.com/business-models#Patronage
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pauloppenheim wolftune: this sounds cool
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wolftune tantek: interesting! I didn't know about that page. We did our own research: https://snowdrift.coop/p/snowdrift/w/othercrowdfunding and https://snowdrift.coop/p/snowdrift/w/existingmechanisms
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wolftune tantek: I'll put up the page. For reference, we go by "Snowdrift.coop" as the name of the org
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pauloppenheim wolftune: you spoke about gittip, but what about flattr?
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wolftune pauloppenheim: see the link I just posted (https://snowdrift.coop/p/snowdrift/w/othercrowdfunding ) — it covers every single related site on the internet (except ones we thought weren't worth mentioning)
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pauloppenheim reads
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wolftune in summary, Flattr is fine for a little bonus tip system. I've never heard of anyone really funded substantially on Flattr, it doesn't solve the snowdrift dilemma at all, it's a proprietary system, and otherwise it's ok
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wolftune We have *extremely* brief "we are like ____ but" statements at https://snowdrift.coop/p/snowdrift/w/slogan
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pauloppenheim sounds like it's an interesting combination of kickstarter sink-or-swim bounties with flattr-like allocation and subscriptions
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pauloppenheim yeah, this is unique
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pauloppenheim i like the research!
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wolftune I really hate wheel-reinvention (despite that we're doing a lot of it after all). I feel responsible to at least do my homework and not clutter the world with another competing thing before checking what's out there.
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wolftune pauloppenheim: thanks for the thoughts, and your characterization is good. Note that the other element is: it's *strictly* for FLO projects. If the community funds you, then you have no excuse to stay proprietary!
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wolftune (which happens with these other sites all the time, they get paid by the public *in advance* and still stay restrictive!)
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wolftune btw, happy to discuss here, but anyone interested can come chat (or lurk or whatever) at #snowdrift as an option
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pauloppenheim it's basically public research but in private hands because we've given up on public institutions
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wolftune right
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wolftune if we could just have a tax to fund everything FLO, that'd work (at least in terms of funding, although there are some arguments for engaging a more voluntary market approach)
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wolftune in some sense this is the closest we can get to taxes while being entirely voluntary
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tantek that's an excellent summary pauloppenheim
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tantek but I might amend that slightly to: it's basically decentralized public research but in private hands because we've given up on centralized public institutions
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tantek wolftune: go ahead and make the main page at /Snowdrift.coop then, and just put a redirect from /Snowdrift and /snowdrift (or I can do the latter for you)
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wolftune tantek: sounds good, will do
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wolftune tantek: FWIW (and I have mixed feelings about this), Snowdrift.coop is itself centralized by design. It's a bit like Wikipedia / Wikimedia. But the cooperative governance helps, and everything is FLO… and MAYBE one day we can figure out how to make it run in a more distributed way
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wolftune for now, we're struggling to just get launched at all
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wolftune Anyway, I have mixed feelings as I think democracy and control and freedom matter, but centralization isn't always terrible otherwise. I'm not a dogmatic anarchist or anything
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tantek wolftune, centralized prototypes are often an essential step towards figuring out a decentralized solution
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wolftune indeed
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tantek so more power to you, you're doing great work, keep it up.
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tantek inspiring stuff
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wolftune thanks, we're always welcoming feedback and such, and certainly any Haskellers (or simple HTML/CSS/JavaScript devs) who want to come help are certainly welcome!
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wolftune working on the page on the wiki, but have to head out in a bit, so will finish later
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tantek wolftune - ok to leave it partial!
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tantek just save!
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tantek :)
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wolftune ok
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tantek (and even say so - "to be expanded")
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tantek !tell aaronpk, benwerd, kevinmarks please review: https://indiewebcamp.com/start_a_page what do you think as a reference for new folks joining the community, to help lower the barrier to creating new pages?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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wolftune.com created /Snowdrift.coop (+850) "Initial posting" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ tantek: you need to tell them to login first
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Loqi KevinMarks_: tantek left you a message 3 minutes ago: please review: https://indiewebcamp.com/start_a_page what do you think as a reference for new folks joining the community, to help lower the barrier to creating new pages?
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tantek KevinMarks_: context, this is *after* asking them to add themselves to /irc-people
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aaronpk nice
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aaronpk that's helpful
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KevinMarks_ so you're expecting them to only get there from that?
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 5 minutes ago: please review: https://indiewebcamp.com/start_a_page what do you think as a reference for new folks joining the community, to help lower the barrier to creating new pages?
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wolftune.com edited /business-models (+265) "added Snowdrift.coop and link to our summary about sites" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ can we put the template info in the edit page boilerplate?
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aaronpk oh is that a thing?
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tantek KevinMarks_: I'm expecting us to share this manually with people
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tantek e.g. currently we just ask people to start a page, which can be intimidating
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tantek so this was an attempt to lower that barrier
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KevinMarks_ got it
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@thesuzettebrown @wordpressdotcom @EbooksDaily @ASJAhq @amazon #ASMSG #KiindleBooks #indieauthor #indieweb @bookseday @huffpost50 @AARPFamily TYou! (twitter.com/_/status/494312362263191553)
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gregorlove.com edited /start_a_page (+91) "Bullet-ed the either/or to make it easier to parse. Clarified new-page/"it"." (view diff)
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Loqi snarfed: KartikPrabhu left you a message 3 hours, 45 minutes ago: bridgy does not generate mf2 for tweets by people who are not signed up?
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: if you craft a source url right, it should generate mf2 for any public tweet
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snarfed got an example that doesn't work?
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snarfed the username in the source url does need to be someone who's signed up, but the tweet id(s) don't have to be theirs. details at https://www.brid.gy/about#source-urls
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snarfed you can also get mf2 html for any tweet from https://twitter-activitystreams.appspot.com/ (choose format=html)
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GWG Good evening
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: this wasn't for a reply/retweet of any sort...
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: should still work
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KartikPrabhu ok looking
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: original tweet: https://twitter.com/shepazu/status/484902457047130113 and bridgy URL: https://brid-gy.appspot.com/post/shepazu/484902457047130113
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Loqi [@shepazu] @kartik_prabhu very cool, but the side-panel needs its own “close” button, in addition to the annotation icon
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: right, that's why i mentioned the username part. the username in the bridgy url needs to be someone (anyone) who is signed up, like you
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KartikPrabhu oh I see but even if the tweet isn't mine it will work?
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snarfed ypu
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KartikPrabhu oh huh! yeah you're right
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KartikPrabhu interesting
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KartikPrabhu thanks
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: I was thinking of using this method to parse tweet while I get activity-streams working on my own
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: ah. sure!
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snarfed remind me, i thought you got the activitystreams lib working a while ago?
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: i got it working just fine... but i want to have it not have mf2py (as an example) in a sub-folder because I already have mf2py stuff anyway
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KartikPrabhu so just wrapping my head around such things I have never dealt with before
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: got it. are the separate instances of mf2py causing a problem? if not, it's probably fine to use like that
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KartikPrabhu I guess so but it conflicts with my way of "cleaning up" my own code to not do that :P
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KartikPrabhu not really an issue... just some organisation probelm
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snarfed understood. if it is working though, that's a big point in its favor, so you have to really want it "cleaner" to be worth the tradeoff
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snarfed …but up to you!
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snarfed ideally i'd package it as a proper pypi library, and all the dependent libs would be separate, and fetched via a requirements.txt file…but i haven't done that yet
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KartikPrabhu yeah.. requirements are weird still as I want to use the latest mf2py on my repo and not the one on pypi
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@kevinmarks @KuraFire @iroc @seriouspony @nebrius do please come to Homebrew Website Club tomorrow night and talk about the #indieweb way to this (twitter.com/_/status/494397662313988096)
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@carlos28936 events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club - IndieWebCamp - http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/494403347944718337)
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@SpaseiSeguros RT @carlos28936: events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club - IndieWebCamp - http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/494405579251937280)
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glennjones.net edited /identengine (+402) (view diff)
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glennjones.net edited /identengine (-10) (view diff)
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glennjones !tell tantek I have fixed identengine.com, it is now on new host and should be stable, also updated wiki page
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cweiske glennjones, do you know about a central identity management tool? which I could use to fill the profile data on different websites?
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cweiske or does identengine do that?
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cweiske glennjones, Christian Weiske
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cweiske https://github.com/cweiske
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cweiske [object Object]
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cweiske http://identengine.com/demos/combined
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cweiske when checking cweiske.de/
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glennjones Thanks, the [object Object] is an issue with the change in address structure between microformats 1 and 2 I will sort it
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glennjones Not sure what you mean by central identity management tool can you explain a bit more
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cweiske a dedicated profile editor
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cweiske in which I can set my name, avatar image, email address, homepage and all other data about me
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cweiske and when I change those data, they get synced out to the different services I use [53/361]
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cweiske e.g. my gravatar picture gets changed
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cweiske and the avatar picture on some other website that wants avatar image upload also gets changed
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glennjones That would be great, I believe some people have tried, but no not that I known of
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glennjones You get a little of this with silos ie facebook connect, where one service can check if you have updated your details in the signup service
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glennjones What would be good is if you give your domain url to a service it checks the h-card on that domain for updates to your profile info
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cweiske yp
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voxpelli kind of like a POSSE for h-card data
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cweiske yep
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voxpelli identengine is more like a "feed reader" for h-card data :)
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voxpelli it could enable a PESOS flow
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glennjones It’s hard for identengine as larger silos go out of their way to block this type of bleed profile data/control, but I on our own domains it a lot easier
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glennjones Any of the h-entry feed readers people are now building at should take approach
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@LongHandPixels Everyday I see some cool new place you can post your content. Some place you don’t own, don’t control and won’t last. stop. learn #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/494471420810760192)
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michielbdejong IndieWeb is one of the topics repeatedly coming up at http://www.meetup.com/Paris-Meetup-pour-la-decentralisation-dInternet/events/193618842/ tod[14/361]
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tommorris michielbdejong: awesome. ;-)
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michielbdejong voxpelli can you see why webmention.herokuapp.com doesn't seem to work on christopheducamp.com?
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michielbdejong xtof hi! :)
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xtof michielbdejong voxpelli hi :)
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voxpelli michielbdejong: not at a computer currently, perhaps file an issue at GitHub so I can follow it up more easily?
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voxpelli xtof: hi!
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michielbdejong voxpelli: ok! we're debugging it here together at Decentralize Paris :)
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michielbdejong will file a bug if we find one
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@nicolas2fr #IndieWeb (at @MozillaParis w/ @xtof_fr) http:///login?continue=%2Fnicolas2fr%2Fcheckin%2F53d903bb498ec4440c3eb243 https://twitter.com/nicolas2fr/status/494492659650953216/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/494492659650953216)
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xtof thanks michielbdjong : webmentions seems to work now on http://christopheducamp.com/2014/01/11/Webmentions-Jekyll/
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michielbdejong voxpelli: bug filed! :) https://github.com/voxpelli/webpage-webmentions/issues/4
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@_Ereputation RT @nicolas2fr: #IndieWeb (at @MozillaParis w/ @xtof_fr) http:///login?continue=%2Fnicolas2fr%2Fcheckin%2F53d903bb498ec4440c3eb243 https://twitter.com/nicolas2fr/status/494492659650953216/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/494495221234016256)
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@kevinmarks @KuraFire @iroc @seriouspony @nebrius here's the full details: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/494500984232476674)
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aaronpk welcome back Loqi
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Loqi who, me?
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aaronpk backfilled logs from the netsplit this morning
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glennjones.net edited /2014/UK/Guest_List (+376) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
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ShaneHudson Hmm yes Indie Web Camp UK... trying to set aside some money to go to that (hotel) plus dconstruct if I can :)
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GWG Morning
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cuibonobo GWG: good morning
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GWG Hello cuibinobo
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GWG How do you pronounce that, by the way?
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cuibonobo kwee-BO-no-bo
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cuibonobo it's a mashup of "cui bono" ("who benefits?") and bonobo (sexy apes)
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ShaneHudson O.o
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cuibonobo i don't mean that *i* find them sexy haha
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Loqi ahahahaha
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gRegor` So it means "Who apes?" right? :)
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cuibonobo gRegor`: lol, i guess!
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anNofMe or maybe some punctuation is missing… “Who? Apes?”
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gRegor` Hehe
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gRegor` Who? Apes!
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anNofMe Or, since it’s explicitly a mashup: “Who benifapes?”
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GWG Interesting
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cuibonobo haha!
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gRegor` I used to say "carpe carp - seize the fish" I was weird. But now I'm totally normal! Yeah... :)
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barnabywalters gRegor`: perd
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cuibonobo gRegor`: i like that one!
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barnabywalters also this is really #indiechat material ;)
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gRegor` perd?
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aaronpk hm the no derivative works clause of the w3c invited expert agreement is interesting
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aaronpk http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Legal/2007/06-invited-expert.html##refrain+from+creating+derivative+works
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willnorris what if the w3 contribution *is* the derivative work?
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aaronpk then you can't derive it further?
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ShaneHudson As it quite often is!
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willnorris ShaneHudson: yeah, that’s what I was thinking. A lot of this work has been going on for years, so any contribution to the w3 WG could be considered derivative of that
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barnabywalters huh, I must have glanced over that part. strange
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anNofMe barnabywalters: Appologies, I’m new and was not aware there was a separate channel
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barnabywalters anNofMe: no need to apologise :)
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cuibonobo aaronpk: i've never seen something like that before.
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cuibonobo aaronpk: "when those derivative works are likely to cause confusion about the status of the W3C work" sounds like trademark language
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk except more broad than trademark, since it applies to the actual idea
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gRegor` W3C work itself is confusing to me.
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cuibonobo right
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cuibonobo aaronpk: actually, no, now that i think about it. because ideas aren't copyrightable
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cuibonobo but it's still confusing
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aaronpk I guess I actually meant implementation, not idea
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anNofMe aaronpk: so here’s a question - if someone accidentally used something licensed under CC-SA, and that made it into a W3C doc, would the SA clause of CC over ride W3C’s claim over the material?
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aaronpk w3c isn't claiming copyright ownership
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cuibonobo but they're restricting derivative works
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cuibonobo which is against what CC-SA is about
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anNofMe cuibonobo: right… SA is “share-alike,” and explicitly says derivatives made must also be CC
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willnorris I suspect wouldn’t allow CC-SA work in a w3 document
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caseorganic.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:esri-logo.gif]]""
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willnorris and if it did accidentally make it in, they strip it back out. Similar to what open source projects occasionally have to do with code
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cuibonobo yeah exactly. if you're the owner of the material, it's possible to dual-license or to say 'from this point forward, this applies'
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willnorris sure
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cuibonobo you can't control what's already out in the wild though
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cuibonobo and if you're *not* the owner of the CC-SA material, that's a whole different ballgame
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anNofMe willnorris: I guess my question is what’s the legal status of he work that had the material in it that’s in the wild
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willnorris murky at best? :)
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cuibonobo haha
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anNofMe heh
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cuibonobo i'm pretty sure you can't retro-actively revoke CC-SA for stuff that's already in people's hands
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cuibonobo but, i am not a lawyer
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gRegor` ^ That esri-logo.gif should be hotlnked instead of uploaded, yes?
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barnabywalters er, did caseorganic just upload a copyrighted image?
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aaronpk yes, i'll fix it in a bit
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barnabywalters gRegor`: jinx :D
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aaronpk i think she's adding it to the sponsor page
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caseorganic.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:mit-logo.png]]""
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gRegor` Shouldn't those still be hotlinked?
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aaronpk yes
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aaronpk i'll fix it
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aaronpk good morning tantek!
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tantek good morning aaronpk!
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aaronpk I'm going through the application process for the w3c group
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tantek aaronpk awesome! please feel free to take screenshots and publicly document any problems you encounter
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tantek I know KevinMarks had some issues with their password form checks
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aaronpk so many confusing things about the password prompts
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tantek *definitely* worth publicly documenting those :)
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ShaneHudson The only trouble I had was logging in, it was as if my password had expired
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aaronpk also I'm confused about this derivative works clause
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tantek feel free to quote and note that it is confusing.
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tantek also is there a general comments field in the form? thought there was - you can either add a note there or blog it (the confusion) and add a URL in the form's notes/comments field.
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aaronpk I don't see anything like that in the questionnaire
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tantek then that's definitely worth pointing out
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caseorganic.com edited /2014/Cambridge (+1819) "/* IndieWebCampCambridge 2014 */" (view diff)
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ShaneHudson The questionnaire didn't seem particularly useful at all. It was mostly just asking for name and organisation. Seemed to be more targetted on getting the organisation to join the W3C than whether the person would be useful.
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aaronpk the "Possible W3C Membership" section is a little presumptive
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gRegor` I started to apply, even though I'm unsure of being an "expert" to be invited...
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rascul the cambridge is at mit now? wasn't it at harvard before?
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tantek gRegor`: want to start /W3C and note criticism about invited expert form?
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tantek rascul - yeah - we got a greater capacity offer at MIT by sandro
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caseorganic.com edited /2014/Cambridge (+165) "/* Hotels near campus */" (view diff)
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rascul ok
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tantek who was at IndieWebCamp 2014 in NYC
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gRegor` I can't at the moment, but maybe later.
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tantek rascul if it's any consolation I'll be running to Harvard on Wednesday morning that week
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tantek (from near MIT ;) )
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rascul i don't run, they make cars for that
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barnabywalters bicycles++
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Loqi bicycles has 1 karma
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rascul i'll be staying with my sister a bit west of boston and taking the train in on saturday and sunday
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caseorganic.com created /2014/Cambridge_Schedule (+993) "Added Schedule for Day 2 IndieWebCamp Cambridge" (view diff)
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rascul mass commuter rail or some such
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aaronpk how about a little indiewebcamp block with links to all past events like the homebrew website club nav box?
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aaronpk I think I can copy/paste the templates from gRegor`'s homebrew website club templates pretty quick
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tantek or we can just ask gRegor` ^^^
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aaronpk given that he already said "maybe later" about another wiki edit I wasn't going to ;)
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gRegor` /Template:navbox and /Template:navbox-row should make it easy to set up similar templates, yeah
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tantek he's quite quick though ;)
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gRegor` Wait wait
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gRegor` Are people pushing off wiki edits on me? :)
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tantek gRegor`: just sharing the love: http://indiewebcamp.com/Special:RecentChanges :D
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tantek.com created /Snowdrift (+28) "r" (view diff)
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tantek has *plenty* of wiki edits to do in his queue
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tantek.com created /snowdrift (+28) "r" (view diff)
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tantek gRegor`: and in this case it may involve some design tweaks too - since IndieWebCamps are semi-regular, and very different # of them per year. Figuring you might want to take the opportunity tweak the templates for the design you have/had in mind accordingly.
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tantek (instead of just being clones of the HWC templates)
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caseorganic.com edited /2014/Cambridge_Schedule (+988) "/* Sunday, October 12, 2014 (Work Sessions) */" (view diff)
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aaronpk i'll start them as clones and we can tweak as we go
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caseorganic.com edited /2014/Cambridge (+11) "Removed TOC" (view diff)
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caseorganic.com edited /2014/Cambridge (-36) "/* IndieWebCampCambridge 2014 */ Removed word sharecropping" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com created /Template:IndieWebCamp/doc (+436) "copy from HWC template" (view diff)
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aaronpk what is indiewebcamp?
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aaronpk heh
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tantek lol
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gRegor` Sure, I can take a look at it. I think a two column table will work for a start. navbox and navbox-row let you set up a two-column table with multiple rows.
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aaronparecki.com created /events/2013 (+17106) "move 2013 events from main [[events]] page" (view diff)
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gRegor` I modeled it after wikipedia which re-uses navboxes like that.
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@voxpelli Loving it when people use @schnarfed's http://www.brid.gy/ and my https://webmention.herokuapp.com/ to move their conversations to their own sites (twitter.com/_/status/494523488401903616)
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tantek hey I suppose since we're more than halfway through 2014 that made sense :)
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aaronpk yep, was getting quite log!
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aaronparecki.com created /Template:events (+529) "add template for linking to all year-specific event pages" (view diff)
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aaronpk long
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KevinMarks_ tantek: should I document the problems on the indiewebcamp wiki?
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2013 (+27) "add nav to other year event pages" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ I can't log into the w3c one...
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tantek !tell caseorganic were you able to recruit Sandro to help co-organize IndieWebCamp Cambridge at MIT?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell her that when I see her next
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/voxpelli/492257887570632705/492278879382675457 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/RelMeAuth (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/voxpelli/492257887570632705/492279413028184064 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/RelMeAuth (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/voxpelli/492257887570632705/899731753 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/RelMeAuth (webmention)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Template:events (+70) "use navbox" (view diff)
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voxpelli Cool, Brid.gy goes through all of my old tweets as well :P
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2012 (-32) "/* See also */ use template" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2011 (-32) "/* See also */ use template" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu voxpelli: I think only the latest 50
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voxpelli KartikPrabhu: Good thing I didn't tweet more IndieWeb things lately then ;)
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tantek KevinMarks_: yes, go ahead and start /W3C and add a "Criticism" section regarding the problems
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KevinMarks_ is that "no derivative works" clause for real? it would outlaw whatwg
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tantek it's problematic yes
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KevinMarks_ it would also make it very hard to create an actual implementation
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tantek yup - you should note that :)
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KartikPrabhu voxpelli: it also means bridgy can not capture delayed activity on old tweets
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tantek and it's also why I'm going to recommend that W3C Social WG use IndieWebCamp specs by *reference* rather than making them into W3C specs
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KevinMarks_ concretely, if I spec a way for webmentions to be included in html5, and then implement it, would that constitute a branch?
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tantek until we can use CC0 etc. license at W3C
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KevinMarks_ it ignores the fork first, send pull request model th
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tantek KevinMarks_: no reason to incorporate webmentions into HTML5 - rather just keep it modular
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KevinMarks_ s/th/that is now de facto/
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Loqi KevinMarks_ meant to say: it ignores that is now de factoe fork first, send pull request model that is now de facto
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KevinMarks_ hah
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aaronpk my understanding is that if webmention becomes part of the W3C work, then it would not be possible for anyone who had contributed to the W3C group to fork the webmention spec
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aaronpk (of course if you were not part of the W3C group then that clause does not apply to you)
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tantek hence worth commenting in the invited expert form that you intend to develop where there is the maximally liberal license, e.g. CC0
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tantek mention CC0 specifically
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tantek early and often
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tantek and feel free to CC www-archive (I think it's a checkbox option at the bottom)
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aaronpk there isn't really a place on the form to note that
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KevinMarks_ lol at http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Legal/IPR-FAQ-20000620#derivatives
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KevinMarks_ HTML5 much?
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tantek KevinMarks_: yup - put it on the wiki
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KevinMarks_ I will. there is a wider problem here that I've seen in boilerplate contracts fot working with startups too
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KevinMarks_ I'll do a w3c critique, and write up a blogpost too.
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KevinMarks_ this is costing startups thousands in lawyer fees to fix the lawyers mis-statement of practice, and potentially damaging their interests by precluding contribution to open source/open specs
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tantek lawyers costing startups thousands in fees to other lawyers? sounds like a profitable collusion agreement.
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aaronparecki.com created /Template:IndieWebCamp (+582) "add template for all past indiewebcamp events" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Category:Events (+18) "include indiewebcamp events template" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Events () "(-17206) use {{events}} and {{IndieWebCamp}} nav templates" (view diff)
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aaronpk oh dear this page is horribly out of date http://indiewebcamp.com/Previous_IndieWebCamps
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aaronpk we need a checklist of things to do before, during, and after each indiewebcamp
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tantek aaronpk - we had that
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tantek it got deleted when indiewebcamp event pages got cloned forward :/
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aaronpk oh it was on each event page?
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aaronpk should be on something like how-to-indiewebcamp
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/SF (-45) "use {{IndieWebCamp}} template" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/NYC (-7) "/* See Also */ use {{IndieWebCamp}}" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014 (-63) "use {{IndieWebCamp}}" (view diff)
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tantek also sometimes there are "hopeful" wiki pages created like that that are maintenance problems that no one realizes
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aaronpk I think at this point it would be useful, since we're doing >1 event per year
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tantek aaronpk - not really - now that we have a footer
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tantek with the previous indiewebcamps
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tantek but re: the how to - that's why I started the intro session page
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tantek how to start an indiewebcamp
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aaronpk i'm thinking things like make sure you create the schedule page with stubs to etherpad docs, then import etherpad notes afterwards
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aaronpk take photos, upload photos, etc
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tantek take photos should be part of the schedule
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/UK (-7) "/* See Also */ use {{IndieWebCamp}}" (view diff)
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tantek I believe in each page containing the self-documentation for how it should work
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tantek rather than having to remember to go check a separate manual somewhere
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tantek (which people won't bother to go check)
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aaronpk in that case we should have fewer pages like /Previous_IndieWebCamps
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aaronpk because they add maintenance work that people forget to do because they're not very discoverable from the individual event pages
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tantek agreed!
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tantek well in this case the maintenance was "natural" because it fed from the home page
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tantek that's how it started
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aaronparecki.com edited /Template:IndieWebCamp (+16) "2014 was in 3 locations!" (view diff)
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tantek we used to have *all* the previous indiewebcamps individually listed in sections on the home page
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aaronpk ah true
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tantek and then when that got too long we just moved them
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tantek to the Previous… page
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tantek but when we switched to showing only *one* (the next one) IndieWebCamp on the home page, we lost that implicit maintenance task
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tantek so that's what happened
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tantek ok I have an idea
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tantek.com moved /Previous_IndieWebCamps to /IndieWebCamps "make this a semi-flat archive of direct links to subpages and photos of previous indiewebcamps"
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/Cambridge (-57) "use {{IndieWebCamp}}" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /IndieWebCamps (+531) "put in a few subheads for most recent indiewebcamps, dfn" (view diff)
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tantek !tell shaners did you ever get the photos from IndieWebCamp Hollywood 2013 uploaded anywhere? When you find them, please upload with http://indiewebcamp.com/Special:Upload - thanks!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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aaronpk oh I found a few
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tantek.com created /indiewebcamps (+27) "r" (view diff)
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tantek what are indiewebcamps?
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Loqi IndieWebCamps are brainstorming and building events where IndieWeb creators gather semi-regularly to meet in person, share ideas, and collaborate on IndieWeb design, UX, & code for their own sites http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieWebCamps
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tantek there you go
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tantek having a summary page with nice thumbnail photos like that provides a good quick community history overview
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tantek.com edited /2014 (+1) "/* See Also */ ws" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2014 (+1) "/* See Also */ ws" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /IndieWebCamps (+38) "use {{IndieWebCamp}} and add to events category" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Template:IndieWebCamp (+7) "link heading to IndieWebCamps since that page basically provides an expansion of what this template shows" (view diff)
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aaronpk cool, looking good
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tantek does that make sense to you aaronpk? having the {{IndieWebCamp}} template link its header to the /IndieWebCamps page which basically expands everything in the template?
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronparecki.com edited /2013 (-23) "use {{IndieWebCamp}}" (view diff)
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tantek and hopefully exposing it like that will make it more obvious to update
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aaronparecki.com edited /2013/UK (+21) "use {{IndieWebCamp}}" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2013/Hollywood (+22) "use {{IndieWebCamp}}" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2012 (+17) "use {{IndieWebCamp}}" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2012/UK (+17) "use {{IndieWebCamp}}" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2011 (-19) "use {{IndieWebCamp}}" (view diff)
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aaronpk ok footer added to all past events
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tantek nice!
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aaronpk was interesting to see the evolution of the event pages over the years
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tantek I wonder how "Décentralisation du Net" is going
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tantek supposedly it's happening now? or happened this morning already?
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tantek http://www.meetup.com/Paris-Meetup-pour-la-decentralisation-dInternet/events/193618842/
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tantek wishes they'd put that on the wiki instead or at least first.
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aaronpk looks like they have a wiki http://decentralisation.framasoft.org/doku.php
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aaronpk the "How to replace Twitter" article is a stub that links to indiewebcamp.com! http://decentralisation.framasoft.org/doku.php?id=remplacertwitter
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tantek aaronpk - looks like the translation home pages broke at some point :(
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tantek e.g. http://indiewebcamp.com/Main_Page-fr redirects to /
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tantek no bueno
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aaronpk oh dear
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tantek so yeah - I wonder why they started a new French indieweb wiki. ahem.
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tantek quietly. without saying something. :/
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tantek finds broken links on the home page now too ahem
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (-6) "/* Past Events: */ Berlin was part of 2014" (view diff)
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aaronpk k http://indiewebcamp.com/Main_Page-fr is fixed
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tantek yay!
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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tantek.com edited /IndieWebCamps (+1522) "put in some thumbnails, details for SF 2014" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014 (+19) "/* Sponsor */ add link to [[Sponsors]]" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /IndieWebCamps (+811) "details for 2014" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Sponsors (+474) "add 2014 cambridge" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/Cambridge (+195) "replace copyright logos with hotlinked versions" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:mit-logo.png "Copyright violation"
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:esri-logo.gif "Copyright violation"
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aaronpk what is zimbra?
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tantek.com edited /IndieWebCamps (+1294) "details for NYC 2014" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /IndieWebCamps (+6) "intro tweak" (view diff)
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tantek ok aaronpk, please review http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieWebCamps since you found the problem(s) with /Previous_IndieWebCamps
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tantek.com edited /Events (-24) "/* 2014 */ -yellow - only intended for upcoming next IndieWebCamp" (view diff)
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aaronpk tantek: great!
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aaronpk I think having it linked to in that footer block will help too
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tantek yup - now it's all part of a decent nav IA
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tantek.com edited /Events (+63) "/* Previous IndieWebCamps */ dir link, add hwc templ" (view diff)
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@ccarfi Looking forward to connecting up with a number of friends at the Homebrew Website Club meeting tonight. http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/494544535607730176)
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tantek.com edited /Events (-18) "-Prev for headers since summary templs include upcoming" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Template:IndieWebCamp (-20) "IndieWebCamps" (view diff)
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voxpelli snarfed: hello!
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snarfed voxpelli: hi!
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snarfed saw you signed up for bridgy
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voxpelli snarfed: yes, thought it was finally time to look into it more – got some questions actually
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snarfed sure!
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tantek.com edited /Events (+11) "toc, dfn" (view diff)
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snarfed btw, your user page says you don't have webmention support because you don't advertise your endpoint on your home page
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tantek aaronpk, look what I found: https://stumptownsyndicate.wufoo.com/forms/z1e29hxk17pwhju/
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voxpelli snarfed: oh – yeah – since I don't show webmentions sent to there I don't want to accept them as that would just send them into a black hole
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tantek "Open Source Bridge 2015 Interest Form \ In 2015, we plan to host two Open Source Bridge conferences, one in Portland, Oregon, and one in another city. If you're interested in bringing Open Source Bridge to your city, let us know!"
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aaronpk tantek: whoa!
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tantek yeah I decided to peek into the future and got unexpected results
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voxpelli snarfed: I could actually add a catch-all page now as I created for pfefferle on http://pfefferle.github.io/openwebicons/contact/ to solve that
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snarfed voxpelli: sure!
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voxpelli snarfed: what I'm wondering is that I'm seeing that all tweets replying to a tweet mentioning a URL also has that URL in a in-reply-to / u-like-of or similar – making it look like they are actually liking/replying to that URL rather than to a tweet
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snarfed voxpelli: yup, that's how it works
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voxpelli snarfed: resulting in eg. it looking like you really really like https://webmention.herokuapp.com/ ;)
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snarfed if bridgy is certain it figures out the one original post url, e.g. from a u-syndication link, then it calls all the rest u-mention
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snarfed if it's uncertain, then it applies the in-reply-to or like-of, etc to all urls
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voxpelli certain regarding what?
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snarfed voxpelli: which of all the possible urls is the one "original post" url
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snarfed voxpelli: details: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/154
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voxpelli oh, so it might be my mistake of actually not POSSE:ing my tweets that causes it to be weird?
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snarfed voxpelli: right, if you include a u-syndication link in your original post, it'll work
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snarfed (ie only u-mention the other links)
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voxpelli snarfed: ok, then I should probably stop using Bridgy for Twitter until I do POSSE:sing of all of my tweets (which I unfortunately due to my setup likely won't do for quite a while :/)
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snarfed voxpelli: aww. ok, if you want. it doesn't really hurt as is though!
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voxpelli well, if all of the URL:s I tweet will be treated as alternate representations of my tweet then peoples interactions with my tweets will be sent to weird places
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voxpelli as happened now with my webmention endpoints getting a secondary round of indirect likes after people liked my tweet mentioning it
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snarfed voxpelli: understood. it'll be sent to those places either way
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snarfed the only difference is whether the links in the source mf2 are classified as u-mention or u-in-reply-to (etc)
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voxpelli snarfed: but it will be impossible to distinguish a "guessed" like of my page from a real like of my page – would likely prefer all guesses to be a u-mention at max
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snarfed voxpelli: ok! yeah, i guess we disagree on that, so you probably do want to click the disable button until you have u-syndication links
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snarfed voxpelli: feel free to comment on https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/154 !
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voxpelli snarfed: another thing I wonder is about the URL – the likes from Bridgy all have the same rel-canonical, but with different content – I'm expecting a URL to always mentioning the same sites so my system gets confused after the first one
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snarfed voxpelli: yeah that happens when the silos don't have permalinks, e.g. for twitter favorites
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snarfed i actually make up permalinks for some. details in https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/215
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voxpelli would it be possible to return all likes + the original post in the ping then? as that's how it would have to be referenced if they themselves supported mf2
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snarfed voxpelli: hmm, maybe, but i'm not sure that would scale
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snarfed most other people are de-duping on source url - which is different for every like - and only use u-url or rel-canonical for rendering. maybe try that?
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voxpelli not sure I would like to do such a workaround :/
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snarfed voxpelli: out of curiosity, why not?
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snarfed voxpelli: let's see. if i remove rel-canonical, and only keep u-url, would that help?
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voxpelli snarfed: yes
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snarfed voxpelli: (also, including all likes/comments/etc in the same ping wouldn't really work, since more likes and comments could arrive after i send it, and i want to be able to send them too)
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snarfed voxpelli: sounds good, i'll remove rel-canonical. i *think* that should be harmless
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gRegor` Are you referring to de-duping likes from FB/Twitter from the same person?
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snarfed gRegor`: no, this is for voxpelli's de-duping for all webmentions, not bridgy-specific
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voxpelli then it would just be a matter of supporting different individual sites posting mentions from other sites, which while it has a certain impersonation problem is a needed workaround to get silos supported
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snarfed voxpelli: done and deployed
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voxpelli snarfed: that was all the questions I had at the moment – will try to get my endpoint updated to support Bridgy better and will hopefully start using it myself again in the future :)
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voxpelli snarfed: great!
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snarfed voxpelli: sounds good!
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gRegor` KartikPrabhu: Don't forget we're at the new location tonight. :) Denton said he can't make it this week, so might just be us.
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gRegor` I pinged Mari and Margot (@pitchdesign) and didn't hear back other than Margot starring the tweet.
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voxpelli snarfed: just one more thing regarding the in-reply-to – couldn't it make sense to have an option telling Bridgy to require rel-syndication to flag anything from that account as an original post? To enable partial POSSE:sing?
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snarfed voxpelli: ah, interesting. so if you opt in, it would use u-mention for everything except u-syndication posts?
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voxpelli snarfed: yes, that would enable me to POSSE my blog posts, but have everything else be just ordinary non-POSSE tweets
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snarfed voxpelli: got it! you're the first person who's asked for it, but i can definitely consider it. feel free to file an issue on github!
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voxpelli snarfed: will do!
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: yeah I remember. we should investigate if a later time will be more conducive to others coming
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KevinMarks Did you do 🌟 ★ and ☆ for favourite?
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jonnybarnes what on earth is going on?
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KevinMarks Tantek is optimising seo for emoji?
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KevinMarks What is ♥?
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Loqi "baby don't hurt me . . . " ♫ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhrBDcQq2DM http://indiewebcamp.com/%E2%99%A5
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bear tantek - can I request :bear: ? ;)
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jonnybarnes lol
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KevinMarks What is ♡
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Loqi http://indiewebcamp.com/%E2%99%A1
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KevinMarks What is ✉
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tantek.com created /🚶 (+22) "r" (view diff)
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KevinMarks What is ☁?
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Loqi cloud within the context of the indieweb refers to "cloud computing", computing services which provide: http://indiewebcamp.com/%E2%98%81
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tantek.com created /🏃 (+22) "r" (view diff)
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KevinMarks What is 💭?
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/gRegorLove/493509501434089472/494570486848704513 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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KevinMarks https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/290233-what-are-letters-kinda-like-mediaglyphics-except-they-re-all-black
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KevinMarks 🚲 🚴
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KevinMarks How many bikes? 🚳
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bear.im created /🐻 (+26) "Redirected page to [[User:Bear.im]]" (view diff)
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rascul whoa Loqi went crazy
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tantek.com edited /note (+67) "emojicon" (view diff)
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bear.im created /💀 (+25) "Redirected page to [[site-deaths]]" (view diff)
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bear is happy now
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KartikPrabhu WTH!
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KevinMarks_ rascul: more like tantek going crazy (this makes more sense if your irc client shows emoji)
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rascul mine does not
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rascul maybe i can configure it too, i dunno
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rascul not really interested heh
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Loqi [mention] http://gregorlove.com/notes/2014/07/30/1/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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tantek.com edited /note (+0) "zoom that note a bit" (view diff)
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Loqi [@gRegorLove] @pitchdesign No, but it's every two weeks on Wednesday evening
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Loqi next one is 8/13. http://indiewebcamp.com also lists the next meeting. (http://twtr.io/p4aMQzR156)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/gRegorLove/494577927208443906/27699215 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/gRegorLove/493509501434089472/494577927208443906 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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jonnybarnes is tantek going to use every emoji character?
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cuibonobo jonnybarnes: seems that way
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cuibonobo <a href="/">Home</a>
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cuibonobo <span class="divider">/</span>
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cuibonobo </li>
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cuibonobo huh... where'd that other stuff come from
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tantek hello copy buffer
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cuibonobo the crazy thing is that i didn't paste anything :/
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cuibonobo whatevs
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jonnybarnes clearly a virus, cuibonobo shoud format their hard drive to be safe
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cuibonobo jonnybarnes: oh yes. i keep my tin foil hat handy for just such an occasion.
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jonnybarnes see, thats the emoji we need, instead we get man levitating in siut
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gRegor` When do we have an emoji intervention?
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cuibonobo http://hhvm.com/blog/5723/announcing-a-specification-for-php
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tantek LOL: "PHP is definitely the lingua-franca of the internet." - see I thought that was TCP/IP. Just saying.
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KartikPrabhu BURN!
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KartikPrabhu eh... so PHP worked without a spec so far... so why does it need a spec?
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KartikPrabhu does python have a spec?
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cuibonobo KartikPrabhu: yes
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KartikPrabhu cuibonobo: how is spec diff. from documentation?
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cuibonobo KartikPrabhu: i take that back. python doesn't have a spec either, so i officially don't know the difference between docs and spec
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KartikPrabhu hmmm cuibonobo... yeah that is what I was confused about too
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KartikPrabhu tantek: why are letters being redirect to pages? why is g=checkin ?
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tantek KartikPrabhu: tantek.com/w/Whistle#design
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KartikPrabhu isn't that Whistle specific?
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@benwerd At last! A $12 wireless plan. The catch: you can only connect to Facebook. http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/07/30/sprint-tries-a-facebook-only-wireless-plan/ #indieweb #aol (twitter.com/_/status/494591949232279554)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: it's a start. figuring we can change later if there's other consensus
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KartikPrabhu hmmm <shrug>
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cuibonobo KartikPrabhu: based on what the PHP spec has so far, documentation is designed for people who want to use the language, while a spec documents the properties and behaviors of the language
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tantek.com created /w (+19) "r" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu cuibonobo: fuzzy distinction it seems
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@benatkin RT @benwerd: At last! A $12 wireless plan. The catch: you can only connect to Facebook. http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/07/30/sprint-tries-a-facebook-only-wireless-plan/ #indieweb #aol (twitter.com/_/status/494593030716809216)
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cuibonobo KartikPrabhu: fuzzier still, it seems like a spec was added to the python language reference: https://docs.python.org/2/reference/grammar.html
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KartikPrabhu yeah just saw that too... can't read/parse that at all... so looks like a docs vs technical docs type deal
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tantek documentation is for those producing something in a language.
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tantek specs are typically for those parsing a language and doing something with it.
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KartikPrabhu so it seems both php and python got along fine without specs
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KartikPrabhu or maybe there was some problem that I never saw because I don't write parsers
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gRegor` g should redirect to me. You can have G, though. ;)
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cuibonobo statue of liberty == licensing??
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tantek liberty freedom
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KartikPrabhu oh boy!
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cuibonobo mhm
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tantek.com edited /User:Tantek.com (+5) "process [[h-card#Issues]]" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+301) "/* Working On */ take screenshots of stream preso before/after adding webaction buttons" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /exercise (+199) "/* Silo Examples */ Apple healthkit" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /IndieWebCamps (+1227) "braindump How to organize along with before, during, after, and linking to Introductions page" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk, I braindumped: http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieWebCamps#How_to_organize
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tantek please review and edit accordingly!
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tantek.com edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+20) "see also IWCs" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /IndieWebCamps (+122) "see also, try organizing a HWC first" (view diff)
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tantek !tell aaronpk please review http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieWebCamps#How_to_organize - I braindumped per our conversation earlier this morning. Feel free to update/rewrite as you see fit. Thanks!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gregorlove.com created /indiewebcamp (+27) "redirect" (view diff)
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gRegor` what is indiewebcamp?
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Loqi IndieWebCamps are brainstorming and building events where IndieWeb creators gather semi-regularly to meet in person, share ideas, and collaborate on IndieWeb design, UX, & code for their own sites http://indiewebcamp.com/indiewebcamp
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tantek.com edited /2014/reposts (+218) "dfn" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Events (+79) "/* 2014 */ link to hackpad instead of just tweet, save tweet as link to photo" (view diff)
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tantek !tell aaronpk datapoint: tantek.dev works in FF30 for me.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek !tell aaronpk datapoint2: tantek.dev works in FF31 for me also. So maybe it's a recent regression. Grr.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com edited /Events (+119) "/* 2014 */ IndieWeb pool discussion session at YaYY conference" (view diff)
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GWG Greetings once more
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tantek.com edited /Dopplr (+29) "linky linky" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /travel (+918) "stub with dfn, indieweb examples with citations, silo, previous, sessions" (view diff)
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tantek !tell aaronpk another for your review: http://indiewebcamp.com/travel
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com edited /travel (+15) "/* Dopplr */ shutdowndate" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /https (+186) "/* Level 2 security */ admin pages must support https, should redirect from http to https" (view diff)
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 1 day, 4 hours ago: you coming tomorrow night too, right? Add yourselves! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club#RSVP
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@benwerd Thinking about organizing / proposing an #indieweb developer room at FOSDEM. Any takers? (twitter.com/_/status/494623832775204865)
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message on 7/29 at 6:37pm: please review: https://indiewebcamp.com/start_a_page what do you think as a reference for new folks joining the community, to help lower the barrier to creating new pages?
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@benwerd Thinking about organizing / proposing an #indieweb developer room at FOSDEM. (twitter.com/_/status/494624096466919424)
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tantek more silo criticism: https://twitter.com/steveklabnik/status/494203088384032768
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@steveklabnik #askcostolo why does the twitter abuse team take weeks or months to respond to individuals who report? (twitter.com/_/status/494203088384032768)
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tantek on the positive side, this is interesting: https://twitter.com/kadavy/status/494622677114826753
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@kadavy Facebook's notification "globe" icon changes depending upon where you're located. (Via @designernewsrss) https://twitter.com/kadavy/status/494622677114826753/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/494622677114826753)
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tantek I wonder what Loqi does with Twitter collections: https://twitter.com/benward/timelines/494617967628271618
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Loqi is done
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tantek apparently
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KartikPrabhu HWC - Chicago online
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bret aaronpk is there food at the thing tonight?