#indiewebcamp 2014-07-31

2014-07-31 UTC
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Loqi [mention] https://willnorris.com/2014/03/indiewebcamp-2014 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/SF (webmention)
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willnorris nice, my new go webmention library and CLI works :)
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KartikPrabhu good job willnorris
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bret willnorris++
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Loqi willnorris has 4 karma
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snarfed so npdoty's http://bcc.npdoty.name/ is a fascinating idea
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snarfed for example, http://bcc.npdoty.name/Re-Homebrew-Website-Club-July-30-2014 , and note the rsvp webmention to http://werd.io/2014/homebrew-website-club-july-30-2014
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snarfed if npdoty is at hwc tonight, someone pls ask him to elaborate on it and take notes!
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npdoty wait, what am I supposed to elaborate on?
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snarfed um…anything! :P
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snarfed fair question. i guess the use case is pretty self explanatory
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snarfed i'd be curious to hear about any email bridge plumbing underneath
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snarfed …or do you post to it, linkify, etc mostly manually?
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npdoty oh, I see, yes.
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npdoty (I just wasn't sure I understood what you were asking)
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snarfed npdoty: btw, re your motivation for it - posting rsvps etc but hiding them from your main page and feed - many of us just do that as part of our main web site's plumbing
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npdoty the sad part of the story is that it's mostly manual / or just a blog engine running on AppEngine
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snarfed np!
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snarfed manual++
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Loqi manual has 2 karma
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snarfed i say do things manually until they get annoying enough to automate
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snarfed (also appengine++)
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snarfed appengine++ (for loqi)
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Loqi appengine has 1 karma
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npdoty but I've always had the idea (which would never be hard to add if I were writing enough) that it would just create posts when I bcc'ed a certain email address
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snarfed for example, i reply/like/rsvp on my main site - https://snarfed.org/responses - but never include them in the front page feed
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npdoty and until I work out some kinks, I'm actually sending the webmentions via a command line tool
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npdoty snarfed, and do you include them in an RSS feed?
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snarfed npdoty: re bcc'ing an email address, hell yeah! very doable on app engine, it can handle incoming email. https://developers.google.com/appengine/docs/python/mail/receivingmail
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snarfed npdoty: nope, not in any feed
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npdoty snarfed: yeah, that GAE already had the feature was part of what me inspired me to get started with a GAE blog system
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npdoty ... but then I just didn't get around to setting up that hook :)
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snarfed i know the feeling
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snarfed (feel free to ask me app engine q's in the future, btw, if you ever have any)
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willnorris (snarfed knows just a thing or two about app engine :) )
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snarfed willnorris: but at this point it really may only be two, and even those are eroding :P
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npdoty I'm beginning to wonder if it wasn't a mistake to keep my blog on AppEngine and work off this blogging code from Nick Johnson (bloggart)
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tantek.com edited /🎪 (+6) "tent should link to camps" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /⛺ (+9) "setup tent should link to camps" (view diff)
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tantek !tell aaronpk Loqi has left the channel
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pdurbin :)
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tantek kicking off here in SF
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tantek benwerd: we did onboarding for Known recently
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tantek benwerd: you used to start with a blank install
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tantek … now you have a four stage setup
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tantek … for creating an account, and setting up syndication services
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @JonPincus: how does a community site change when you want to engage in private conversations? (twitter.com/_/status/494657947679866880)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @JonPincus: you can now log onto our site Tapestries using indieauth, and can use a public profile to log into indieauth sites (twitter.com/_/status/494658228920143873)
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tantek jonpincus: is working on some new social networking software for himself and friends
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @JonPincus: there is a problem of how you block or mute bad actors in conversations (twitter.com/_/status/494658307781824514)
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tantek … sick of facebook and looking at business opportunities
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tantek … really thinking about how does a community site related to other sites
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tantek … and when you want to engage in private conversations, things get interesting
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tantek … was at IndieWebCamp 2014
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tantek … since then implemented IndieAuth, to login to your Tapestries
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tantek … is interested in situations where you have private discussions
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benwerd https://www.thetapestries.net/
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tantek … dealing with bad actors
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tantek … how do you mute people
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tantek … how do you block people
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jonpincus is the kill file a good starting point?
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I added a mute page to the wiki, but we don't have implementations yet (twitter.com/_/status/494658972310577153)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I've been adding to the wiki what all the features you would need to build a twitter for yourself (twitter.com/_/status/494659086332739584)
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npdoty *knock knock* Mozilla
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jonpincus as twitter's amped up their engagement button, it leads to overload. can webmetnions potnetially lead to same problem?
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benwerd We should wire the door up to handle webmentions
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jonpincus tantek's iterating on the features list on /twitter
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I made a list at http://indiewebcamp.com/twitter#features of things I'd need to build to stop using https://twitter.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/494659701200920576)
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@lightcoin RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @t: I made a list at http://indiewebcamp.com/twitter#features of things I'd need to build to stop using https://twitter.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/494659801142808577)
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bret PDX here
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: I'm fascinated by @iroc's flaminga that filters twitter client side: http://madebycori.com/flaminga/ (twitter.com/_/status/494660215456165889)
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#Features
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jonpincus flamin.ga: a twitter client with shared mute lists. and, mute people and their followers
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tantek KevinMarks: shows flaminga - twitter client
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jonpincus will twitter change their TOS to prohibit stuff like that?
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @JonPincus: when I was doing politcal activism on twitter people tried to shout me down, I used block then (twitter.com/_/status/494661110432538624)
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bret aaronpk just got here, sitting here with Manny (buying domain right now) and http://www.mbcharbonneau.com
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bret PDX will be doing a hack/work night till 9 and then we will demo what we got done
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jonpincus do you have to publish the block list? could avoid it by doing a query; or use a bloom filter
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bret mannylopez.me is manny's brand new domain
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: if you look at @ladygaga's or @barackobama's replies they are mostly requests to follow or crap (twitter.com/_/status/494661911997607938)
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@benatkin https://sandstorm.io/ sounds awesome! #opensource #appliance #ownyourdata #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/494662272522809344)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: the best block implementation was @flickr's - when you block someone the history becomes invisible to you (twitter.com/_/status/494662372519600129)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: twitter is getting a lot of flak for their abuse policies in general - I expect they will review this (twitter.com/_/status/494662516338089984)
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jonpincus flickr got it right: if you block somebody, it cleans every essence of them from your profile -- not just your view, but everybody else's. it deletes the data.
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: we only get less webmention spam than trackbacks and twitter spam because it has a higher barrier to entry (twitter.com/_/status/494663209899397120)
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jonpincus twitter seems a lot more successful at spam then with abuse. anything to learn from that?
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@mathewi RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @kevinmarks: twitter have special features for the verified users that show them a cleaner twitter - verified use… (twitter.com/_/status/494663341856800768)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: the cool thing when everyone has their own readers is that there is no place to centrally spam (twitter.com/_/status/494663688335261696)
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aaronpk hi all
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aaronpk lay it on me loqi
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 4 hours, 14 minutes ago: please review http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieWebCamps#How_to_organize - I braindumped per our conversation earlier this morning. Feel free to update/rewrite as you see fit. Thanks!
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 4 hours ago: datapoint: tantek.dev works in FF30 for me.
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 4 hours ago: datapoint: tantek.dev works in FF30 for me.
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 3 hours, 54 minutes ago: datapoint2: tantek.dev works in FF31 for me also. So maybe it's a recent regression. Grr.
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 3 hours, 54 minutes ago: datapoint2: tantek.dev works in FF31 for me also. So maybe it's a recent regression. Grr.
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 3 hours, 28 minutes ago: another for your review: http://indiewebcamp.com/travel
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 3 hours, 28 minutes ago: another for your review: http://indiewebcamp.com/travel
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Loqi :)
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@wildebees RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @kevinmarks: twitter have special features for the verified users that show them a cleaner twitter - verified use… (twitter.com/_/status/494664249244155904)
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@mala RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @kevinmarks: twitter have special features for the verified users that show them a cleaner twitter - verified use… (twitter.com/_/status/494664504026726400)
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npdoty_ Portland, if you're talking, we hear you
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aaronpk can you still hear? I muted it
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npdoty_ quiet, now
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aaronpk great
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GWG The HWC is still on?
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tantek GWG - we've split up into peer to peer mode here in SF
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GWG Okay.
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GWG I just delurked.
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GWG I always miss it
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aaronpk tantek: YAY that how to organize looks great
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Loqi giggles
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aaronparecki.com edited /IndieWebCamps (+13) "/* How to organize */ minor wording changes" (view diff)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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aaronparecki.com edited /travel (+67) "/* Aaron Parecki */ add example of a cancelled trip" (view diff)
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indie-visitor talking about what the umbrella noun is that includes comments, likes, etc. "interactions"? "responses"?
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jonpincus oops that last one was really me
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aaronpk there was a disucssion about that earlier... where did that leave off?
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jonpincus npdoty: what about cite? it's a type of mention. is it an interaction?
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ShaneHudson it is an interaction
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jonpincus it's in relation to another post. but not static. (does relation imply static? interactions imply time)
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tantek thank you aaronpk! glad you liked the the how to organize draft :)
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tantek lol at s/cleaner/a cleaner state
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aaronpk no?
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aaronpk it was actually s/to cleaner/to a cleaner state
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tantek right, I should have s/to cleaner/cleaner
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aaronpk that would also work
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tantek I was just lolling because it was a dev way of saying something in terms of "… state" :)
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@kevinmarks Notes from tonights #indieweb Homebrew Website Club in SF http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2014-07-30.html (twitter.com/_/status/494672396217905152)
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aaronpk oh I spoze
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tantek.com edited /sandstorm (+189) "live demo, headings, see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /sandstorm (+21) "serverside" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /Docker (+156) "stub" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /docker (+20) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /store (-18) "/* Platforms */ link" (view diff)
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tantek as more indieweb projects do crowdfunding, how do we promote them?
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npd waves
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npd Bye all!
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tantek bye npd!
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: when you block on @flickr it deletes all their comments on your photos, and their favorites of yours and unfollows them (twitter.com/_/status/494677893491228673)
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (+10) "/* URLs */ FB event for Minneapolis" (view diff)
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tantek !tell KartikPrabhu, gRegor` was there a specific event URL for Chicago for today? Could you add it to: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club#URLs ? Thanks!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@benwerd Sandstorm.io is another very interesting #indieweb platform: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sandstorm-io-personal-cloud-platform (twitter.com/_/status/494678646548733952)
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mattheweppelshei waves at room
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GWG Hello, mattheweppelshei
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bret hey GWG
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bret hey markmhendrickson :)
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GWG Hi, bret
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GWG What's going on?
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aaronpk we just realized that calagator.org already provides an iCal feed of indieweb events in Portland
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bret just working on gitpub
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aaronpk http://calagator.org/events/search?query=indieweb
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aaronpk webcal://calagator.org/events/search.ics?query=indieweb
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bret have authorization, multiparsing, file handling, and git autoamtion working
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bret now working on generating the post file
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GWG bret: I'm much less ambitious
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bret GWG: you just wait :p
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GWG bret: For?
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GWG bret: I keep taking on more small projects
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bret You will start itching for stuff, and then you will begin writing it!
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GWG bret: I have. Then people try to tell me to just use someone else's thing.
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bret GWG: the more stuff you do, the more ambitious you can get
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bret I didnt know JS in 2013
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bret if you want, you can hack almost anything together, if you want
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@mattepp Sorry, HATEOAS, your time on the throne was quite brief. POSSE is my new favorite acronym. http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/494687296352837632)
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@mamund RT @mattepp: Sorry, HATEOAS, your time on the throne was quite brief. POSSE is my new favorite acronym. http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/494690037129560064)
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aaronpk tonight I got my car2go trips automatically importing to my site! e.g. http://aaronparecki.com/metrics/2014/07/30/120143/
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@aaronpk Tonight I got my site auto-importing my @car2goportland driving history! e.g. http://aaronparecki.com/metrics/2014/07/30/120143/ #indieweb (http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/07/30/2/indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/494694607997771777)
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (+84) "/* RSVP */ add manny and marc to RSVP" (view diff)
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ShaneHudson What base layer do you use for the maps aaronpk? The cities look really nice
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tantek good evening #Indiewebcamp!
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GWG tantek: Good evening. What itches have you been scratching of late?
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tantek terminology
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GWG Oh?
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tantek trying to get rough consensus around what to call the set of things that is replies/comments, reposts/reshares, likes/favorites
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tantek current candidates (from having talked to people in person and on IRC)
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tantek 1. interactions
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tantek 2. reactions
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tantek 3. responses
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GWG I like responses, but I saw some of the debate
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tantek in rough order of appeal / match to that general set of things
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tantek responses both felt too much like a synonym for replies, and heavier term than what a "like" is
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GWG I bow to the will of the group.
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tantek or a "favorite" - which people often view as a way of just "collecting" something (almost like a public bookmarking but for private use)
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tantek part of my goal of having this discussion is understanding the nuances of implied meaning from each of these terms
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tantek to see if we can argue our way around to various common understandings
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GWG tantek: Well, I recall IWC NYC where I somehow created a favorite vs like debate.
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GWG I need to get back to work on finishing up my improved site design.
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tantek I think I'm going to go with interactions - both benwerd and I have "speech" tested that with people in general and they seem to "get it" right away - just normal blogger/news folks rather than indieweb folks even
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ShaneHudson I definitely prefer interactions, it gives the widest scope
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 52 minutes ago: was there a specific event URL for Chicago for today? Could you add it to: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club#URLs ? Thanks!
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KartikPrabhu tantek: no. there was no event specific URL... we've just been using the wiki page to let people know
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tantek ok cool
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KartikPrabhu is catching up
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@leroy_gill RT @aaronpk: Tonight I got my site auto-importing my @car2goportland driving history! e.g. http://aaronparecki.com/metrics/2014/07/30/120143/ #indieweb (http://t.co/Hc… (twitter.com/_/status/494711104451248129)
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (+47) "/* Notes */ kevinmarks notes from SF" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /interactions (+434) "stub" (view diff)
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@bdufresne RT @mattepp: Sorry, HATEOAS, your time on the throne was quite brief. POSSE is my new favorite acronym. http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/494726404937105408)
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bret !tell aaronpk oh noes! I left my power adapter at esri and going to Cascadia JS tomrrow
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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bret !tell aaronpk what time could I swing by and get it?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kartikprabhu.com edited /interactions (+4) "corrected typos" (view diff)
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@JohnBNewton RT @benwerd: Sandstorm.io is another very interesting #indieweb platform: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sandstorm-io-personal-cloud-platform | looks worth supporting (twitter.com/_/status/494755620491657216)
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@glennjones Just backed another interesting personal cloud platform sandstorm.io - crowdfunding at https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sandstorm-io-personal-cloud-platform #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/494796813879484418)
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@WinAHome4Life RT @glennjones: Just backed another interesting personal cloud platform sandstorm.io - crowdfunding at https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sandstorm-io-personal-cloud-platform #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/494798578301542400)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
bnvk, himannylopez, PierreO1, glennjones_, bnvk1, wagle_, friedcell1, paulcp, icco, catsup, kylewm, teknotus, protman, bret, yakker, realzies, wagle, scor, chrissaad, barnabywalters, peat_, KartikPrabhu, cuibonobo, glennjones and brianloveswords joined the channel
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Loqi [mention] http://www.marcus-povey.co.uk/2014/07/31/tweaking-jetpack-opengraph/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/silo (pingback)
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bnvk1 Curious what you all think about http://blog.bittorrent.com/2014/07/30/building-an-engine-for-decentralized-communications/
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bnvk1 http://blog.bittorrent.com/2014/07/30/bittorrents-chat-client-unveiled-bittorrent-bleep-now-in-invite-only-pre-alpha/
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bnvk1 has anyone actually used it?
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Loqi gRegor`: tantek left you a message 11 hours, 42 minutes ago: was there a specific event URL for Chicago for today? Could you add it to: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club#URLs ? Thanks!
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@prelert Pro tips to optimize #AnomalyDetection and overall performance using the API engine to analyze your data http://info.prelert.com/blog/tips-to-optimize-anomaly-detection-engine-api-performance #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/494857169150287872)
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@AndreJaenisch Jay to socialising the #blogging experience! :) https://kartikprabhu.com/article/indieweb-love-blog by @kartik_prabhu #IndieWeb #WebMention #Microformats (twitter.com/_/status/494857761428348928)
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gRegor` !tell tantek No event URLs yet. I'm not set up to post events on my site yet. It's on my near-future list, though.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/gRegorLove/493509501434089472/494582053543739393 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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cuibonobo bnvk1: thanks for those links! i'm actually *very* interested in the move to "serverless" technologies and I think it's the key for getting the indieweb to take off.
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bnvk1 cuibonobo: definitely could be one path to the golden goose
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bnvk1 mesawonders how discovery & search plays out in a serverless eco-system
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cuibonobo no idea! but i've been following these guys very closely for the same reason: http://maidsafe.net/
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bnvk1 yah, I've followed that as well
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bnvk1 Does it actually "do" anything yet? Do they even have a working proof of concept? Or are they lost up in architecture outer space?
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cuibonobo they've been deploying test nets and tearing them down
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cuibonobo so it's still in iteration stage
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cuibonobo but it seems like they're on track to have something stable by this fall
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bnvk1 hope it works out
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bnvk1 I like the ideas and goals, but just becoming increasingly skeptical of decentralized efforts with no working proof of concept
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KartikPrabhu is the idea that we don't need to rent server space but can host it on our own machines
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cuibonobo right. and the network encrypts your data and sends it to at least 4 other machines
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cuibonobo so that it will always be available
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KartikPrabhu is there any effort to actually legalise this. afaik ISPs don't actually allow you to host web servers on your connection
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KartikPrabhu through the ToD
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KartikPrabhu ToS*
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gRegor` !tell snarfed Does bridgy only poll my feed for PPD every so often? I have a POSSED note that it's saying "no post links found" and I'm pretty sure it wasn't a race condition with the syndication link.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gregorlove.com created /PPD (+34) "redirect" (view diff)
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cuibonobo KartikPrabhu: I'm not sure. it would work in a similar way to bitcoin where your computer "works" for the network. has bitcoin run into ToS problems?
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gRegor` Have you seen .bit? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.bit
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KartikPrabhu cuibonobo: not that I know of. But i think all ISPs explicitly disallow using their services for hosting
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gRegor` Related, but still requires a server.
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cuibonobo gRegor`: yes! a decentralized DNS is also important. maybe Namecoin could point to a MaidSafe node and be truly serverless? i have no idea
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aaronpk bret: I'll be at the office all morning
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Loqi aaronpk: bret left you a message 9 hours, 21 minutes ago: oh noes! I left my power adapter at esri and going to Cascadia JS tomrrow
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Loqi aaronpk: bret left you a message 9 hours, 20 minutes ago: what time could I swing by and get it?
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aaronpk namecoin is not decentralized DNS
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KartikPrabhu with all the bruhaha about speed and performance, i wonder how people will accept having to validate an entire block-chain to access some website
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Loqi ahahaha
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aaronpk exactly
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tommorris KartikPrabhu: on namecoin - http://tommorris.org/posts/9040
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KartikPrabhu don't you have to get validation from many players?
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KartikPrabhu tommorris: agreed
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KartikPrabhu tommorris: the quick response was due to me having read that article before :)
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aaronpk haha "to register a Namecoin, the main site I found recommended by people requires me to login with an OpenID" <-- the best
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KartikPrabhu right now even my SSL negotiation takes about 0.8s on webpagetest.org
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aaronparecki.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+113) "add tommorris.org indietech post" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu else I am already competitive with dave rupert after he optimised his site
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cuibonobo aaronpk: indeed. i decided to check it out a few months back and it involved creating an account on some currency exchange thing, changing fiat to bitcoins, and *then* being able to get namecoins. but then you have to spend those in a particular way. it's crazy town
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Loqi tantek: gRegor` left you a message 1 hour, 11 minutes ago: No event URLs yet. I'm not set up to post events on my site yet. It's on my near-future list, though.
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tantek Ok
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tantek gRegor`: Perhaps at least a silo-event then like Minneapolis did until someone in Chicago has event posts?
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gRegor` I thought about doing that. Wasn't sure if it might get some irony points for not being a POSSE event. :)
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gRegor` But now that we're in a more permanent location especially, it's a good idea.
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gRegor` We could double our attendance, if the two people who are interested show up. :)
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Loqi snarfed: gRegor` left you a message 28 minutes ago: Does bridgy only poll my feed for PPD every so often? I have a POSSED note that it's saying "no post links found" and I'm pretty sure it wasn't a race condition with the syndication link.
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gRegor` One of which asked me yesterday if there was a mailing list for upcoming events. So a FB event might serve as a good reminder for her.
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gRegor` snarfed: They came through later, so I'm guessing I was correct about the feed polling. :)
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jonpincus good morning all. (or the appropriate time wherever you are)
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bnvk mornin
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jonpincus following up on tantek's question "what to call the set of things that is replies/comments, reposts/reshares, likes/favorites" -- discussed last night at http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-30#t1406780480
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jonpincus we talked about it some at HWC in SF last night
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jonpincus i asked people on The Tapestries, and they preferred "responses" to "interactions". [we already use "reactions" to mean "likes, favorites, agree, disagree, etc." -- that is, responses that aren't replies]
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snarfed gRegor`: yes, iirc ppd is every 2h or so
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snarfed (at least, for tweets (posts etc) it's already seen. it reruns when it sees a new tweet from you)
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gRegor` Makes sense.
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tantek jonpincus: I agree that reactions sounds like all the "lighter" things short of a comment/reply
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jonpincus turns out there's already a wiki page on /responses :)
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gRegor` One of my first thoughts about ppd was that it would be really intensive to look up a feed every time you processed a tweet.
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tantek jonpincus: I know about /responses - part of why I restarted this discussion. That page is a bit of a mess and mostly historical now.
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snarfed gRegor`: definitely. worse, every time it processes a response (interaction reaction etc)
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jonpincus yes, and i agree we want an umbrella term for reactions, reshares, replies,...
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snarfed tries hard to avoid the ongoing debate
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cuibonobo snarfed: we still see you there!!
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tantek jonpincus: Can you capture your surveyed info re responses & reactions on the /interactions page under the Alternatives subhead?
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gRegor` jonpincus: Universal Greeting Time :) http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
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snarfed cuibonobo: heh. i'm going to just say XXXes until they settle on the word they want :P
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jonpincus ++gRegor
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cuibonobo snarfed: good plan
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tantek snarfed: We're at least trying to collect both opinions and the different nuances different people / sites seem to have for the different terms
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gRegor` Ooh, pre-increment karma
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snarfed tantek: of course! i'm glad you all are doing it. i feel the same way i feel about markup, etc. it's important and i really appreciate that other people work hard on it, because it's not at all my thing personally
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gRegor` snarfed: Then do we need to put content warnings on our sites? ;)
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snarfed gRegor`: ??
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gRegor` "XXXes"
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jonpincus yep, will do
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gRegor` Don't mind me
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tantek thanks jonpincus
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jonpincus cuibono, snarfed: are is it that you don't care about the name, or that any of the o[tions are okay, or just don't want to get dragged into an endless debate?
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snarfed jonpincus: yes yes and yes
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snarfed gRegor`: so just to confirm, you eventually got everything you expected from bridgy? or is something still outstanding?
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gRegor` Looks like it's all there, yep
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achangeiscoming.net created /reaction (+295) "Created page with "Tantek described these as the "lighter" responses -- things short of a comment/reply. "Likes" are fairly universal examples of reactions. On [[The Tapestries]], reactions inclu..."" (view diff)
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cuibonobo jonpincus: i would care if one of the options was truly ridiculous, but the 3 that are being tossed around seem fine. my personal preference is 'reactions' as a catch-all term
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jonpincus i agree that none of them are ridiculous
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cuibonobo jonpincus: i'm actually more curious as to why this is being debated in the first place. is it because we want to include them in microformats or something?
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jonpincus cuibono good question, i'm not sure why it came up in indieweb discussions
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jonpincus on The Tapestries it comes up as part of the onboarding help text
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gRegor` Context: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-26#t1406396458
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achangeiscoming.net edited /interactions (+55) (view diff)
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gRegor` And http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-26#t1406398212
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jonpincus actually tantek I'm going to wait until later in the tapestries discussion to summarize the feedback
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jonpincus thanks gRegor`!
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cuibonobo gRegor`: seems like the crux of the issue is what page to redirect to on the wiki
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cuibonobo *shrug* whatevs
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KartikPrabhu question: why do we need an umbrella term for responses?
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tantek KartikPrabhu: because we often discuss them as a set of things
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tantek e.g. the set of things that Bridgy sends back
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KartikPrabhu hmm
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jonpincus an example would be explaining to somebody new on the system: "you get a notification whenever there's a response to a thread you're watching" [or something like that]
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tantek both benwerd and I have had good luck with using the term "interactions" in talks (e.g. see my talk from PDF)
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tantek to briefly describe/encapsulate the full set of things people *do* to others blog posts
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jonpincus there are other kinds of interactions besides responses though
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jonpincus oops
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tantek lol
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jonpincus i mean, there are other kinds of interactions besides replies and reactions and reshares though
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KartikPrabhu jonpincus: I mean why does there need to be a consensus on what to call them? "you get a notification whenever there's a response to a thread you're watching" sounds the same as "you get a notification whenever there's a reaction to a thread you're watching" [or something like that] or "you get a notification whenever there's an interaction on a thread you're watching" [or something like that]
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tantek sad that I can't even find old Technorati blog posts
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jonpincus thanks that do not happen in response (oops) to a post
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KartikPrabhu they all sound the same to me
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tantek KartikPrabhu: those of us that want to use consistent terminology are seeing if we can come up with something agreeable - of course everyone is free to call them whatever they want in terms of what they think will communicate best to users
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tantek we may need more experimentation here
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KartikPrabhu hmm
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KartikPrabhu <shrug>
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bnvk Have any of you backed Sandstorm? https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sandstorm-io-personal-cloud-platform
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tantek so basically, do what you want in your own content copy, and we'll iteratively figure it out by documenting experience in the wild
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gRegor` I think it'd certainly be helpful to have one page on the wiki as the umbrella term. Whether people adopt that in the language they use or text on their site, isn't a big deal.
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cuibonobo bnvk: there's been a lot of buzz about it on my dev social networks about it. the technology seems very cool, but i'm not sure if it can be anything other than a dev toy
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jonpincus the cognitive load on people is lower if we can come to consensus on terminology. also protocols can be simpler. in situations where different sites are using different terms, you have to map between them.
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tantek gRegor`: right. and we can also keep documentation of the alternatives there so people can make an informed choice
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tantek I like that we can capture multiple perspectives on the wiki
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bnvk cuibonobo: interesting, how so? It's a very easy installer experience
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gRegor` Anecdata: my webmention form says "Send a Response" "Have you written a response to this? Let me know the link:"
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tantek jonpincus - excellent answer! perhaps add that as an FAQ to the page? "Why do we need one term for this?"
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gRegor` I also tend not to think of things people write in response to me as a "reply," but rather just a "comment."
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: all of those wordings probably stem from adactio's use of the word response in his form
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cuibonobo bnvk: sure! i tried out the demo and it was lovely. but, for example, i don't think any of my artist friends would be into it
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achangeiscoming.net edited /interactions (+259) (view diff)
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cuibonobo bnvk: you can put your stuff on blogger or wordpress.com, so paying $60 a year doesn't seem like a good value to them
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bnvk artist friends, being people who *should* want to host their own box instance things...
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gRegor` Oh, and since I still accept local blog comments, there is a form below the "Send a Response" with heading "Or Add a Comment"
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KartikPrabhu cuibonobo: good point on their part
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bnvk KartikPrabhu: cuibonobo: yah, that is a good point in deed… however artists are usually not ones to have money to spend on web stuff
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bnvk *indeed
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bnvk mesathinks small biz's are a much better target market to focus on
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bnvk Kenton's campaign is mostly going after techies / sys admins though...
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jonpincus perhaps although small biz's are a tough market ... agreed that Kenton's targeting techies with this campaign
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KartikPrabhu bnvk: what is the incentive for a small business to do all this instead of just getting a cheaper website and off-load all social to silos?
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jonpincus cuibono: what would they want for $60 year?
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bnvk well, it would depend on the "apps" that can be installed
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bnvk https://protonet.info/en/ did exceptionally well catering to small businesses
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KartikPrabhu bnvk: all the social silos are free (as in cost)... hard to compete with that
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jonpincus KartikPrabhu: it depends on the business, but in general: as a better way of running easier-to-maintain-and-tweak website that lets them engage with their audience better (and, for some, improving their email security will be attractive)
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cuibonobo jonpincus: that's just it. they wouldn't pay $60 a year. you can talk about owning your data until you're blue in the face, but someone that is happy with how tumblr works won't connect with that message.
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bnvk right, for social stream style things- Sandstorm is not a clear value tradeoff- largely cause there's no "social" apps for it
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jonpincus ++cuibono
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jonpincus cuibono++ ?
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tantek cuibonobo++
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Loqi cuibono has 1 karma
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Loqi cuibonobo has 4 karma
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KartikPrabhu cuibonobo: exactly my point too
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jonpincus oops, i meant cuibonobo++ ... sorry about that
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tantek cuibonobo: that's an *excellent* summary of the problem with charging end users. care to add that in a "Challenges" section on /business-models ?
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cuibonobo tantek: sure
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jonpincus if it's not owning their own data, then, what *would* they pay for?
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KartikPrabhu and easier-to-maintain-and-tweak is not a qualification I'd use for an indiewebsite compared to a dumb old site
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KartikPrabhu at least not yet
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bnvk methinks "maintain-and-tweak" is not a selling point for many many people, that sounds like a headache
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bnvk yet, I am constantly amazed by how much non-tech people connect with and have the feeling that "facebook is creepy and too much"
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jonpincus fair point, badly phrased
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jonpincus what they want is "easier to keep running and improve". and right, Indieweb technologies aren't there yet but then again wordpress and drupal and elgg took a while to get there.
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KartikPrabhu bnvk: but do you think they are looking for a completely independent solution or just a better facebook?
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jonpincus ++bnvk
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KartikPrabhu jonpincus: post-fix notation
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aaronpk lol where did this prefix karma come from
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bnvk KartikPrabhu: I think people deep down have some intrinsic understanding of freedom, privacy, and individuality even when it comes to complex ephemeral digital web things
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jonpincus i'm originally a C programmer. the return value (as reported by Loqi) is the new karma, so it's a pre-increment op :)
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Loqi who, me?
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tantek jonpincus: remind me again where drupal and elgg "get there"?
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aaronpk lol
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aaronpk fair
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bnvk doesn't most of the US gov sites run on Drupal nowadays?
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tantek yay! enterprise & gov consulting shop maintenance fees!
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Loqi woot
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bnvk like whitehouse.gov and lots of things Obama has been working towards
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jonpincus fair, although there are lots of usable enough sites built on drupal and elgg that are relatively easy to keep going
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aaronpk Loqi I don't think you understand sarcasm
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KartikPrabhu who, me?
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jonpincus agreed though this is the opportunity
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jonpincus an opportunity
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tantek bnvk all they did was displace more expensive closed-source alternatives. not really any kind of incremental improvement in usability or user-friendliness.
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aaronpk ack it freaks me out when other people say things that Loqi says
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bnvk jonpincus: what is the opportunity?
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: lol! :P
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bnvk we are all Loqi and Loqi is all of us
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cuibonobo jonpincus: i think the challenge that we're facing is the fact that a server needs to be maintained somewhere. if people could use software on their computer or an app on their phone, the indieweb will start to click more.
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jonpincus an opportunity for businesses is something that's more usable/user-friendly than the current generation (wordpress, drupal, elgg) and still allows hosting yourself (unlike squarespace).
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bnvk tantek: for sure, but isn't that still an improvement as those consulting companies usually fix bugs that make it back upstream at least somewhat, no?
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@bmann @patrickc perhaps get #indieweb involved. Fair & one commercial company is the awkward note ;) (twitter.com/_/status/494890097729220609)
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KartikPrabhu cuibonobo: I am pretty confused about this "on your own computer" idea. I am supposed to leave my computer on all the time so that my website is accessible?
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cuibonobo KartikPrabhu: maybe! i'm not sure. i feel like the things that will eventually bring the indieweb to consumers don't exist yet.
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KartikPrabhu maybe
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jonpincus cuibonobo: agreed, that would make it click a lot more. or an easy place for people to host while retaining ownership (and regular backups)
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tantek bnvk - haha - that's horribly optimistic
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KartikPrabhu who does one blame if their indiewebsite gets "hacked" ?
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KartikPrabhu or whom*
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tantek no the consulting companies don't have time to push things back into core, nor motivation, as what they learn becomes part of their expertise and added value
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tantek KartikPrabhu: yourself :)
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KartikPrabhu are non-techies willing to do that?
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tantek KartikPrabhu: are non-techies willing to be responsible for the maintenance of their bicycle, their car?
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KartikPrabhu people still can not handle their Linux crashing
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tantek That's the level we need to reach if you want to reach them.
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KartikPrabhu tantek: computers are different
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bnvk tantek: rly? horribly?
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bnvk *sigh*
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KartikPrabhu everything on a computer is still a dark black box
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tantek bnvk - have you spoken with people who work with or at drupal consultants? it's pretty bad.
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tantek nobody is happy.
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aaronpk there was a whole floor of them below us at our old office
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bnvk I suppose I'm basing my assumptions off of OpenSourcery, I always thought ppl liked working there for the most part
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aaronpk I don't think a data point of just OpenSourcery is representative of the whole scene
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tantek what is OpenSourcery?
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bnvk a PDX drupal shop
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bnvk aaronpk: fair nuff
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aaronpk even in Portland there are a bunch of other shops
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@itsmisscs @mik3cap me waits patiently. are you into the #indieweb movement? NYC does't have a meetup (hint hint) (twitter.com/_/status/494891804861284354)
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bnvk aaronpk: yah, I just don't have 1st hand tales from other shops- is the majority that those places are lame?
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tantek.com edited /interactions (+1274) "expand alternatives with subsections, opinions" (view diff)
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aaronpk not specifically "lame", but I heard a lot of not so good things from the place downstairs over the year, and another friend at a different shop would share stories often. It's not like they were horrible places to work at, just often heard negative things about the work.
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bnvk interesting
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bnvk aaronpk: what do you think about https://www.stellar.org ?
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johncash I think it's stellar!
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johncash sorry couldn't resist
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tantek.com edited /interactions (+919) "add Interactions as an alternative and note opinions/experience" (view diff)
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bnvk johncash: troll ;)
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bnvk johncash++
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Loqi johncash has 4 karma
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johncash "Stellar Development is led by https://www.stellar.org/about/#Jed_McCaleb (resuming development of the open-source technology he created at Ripple" My first thought was "That sounds suspiciously like ripple"
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johncash indiewebcash would be a cool idea
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tantek sounds like smart people are working on it
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willnorris.com edited /site-deaths (+292) "fotopedia shutting down" (view diff)
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tantek however I tend to be skeptical about starting things with a non-profit foundation
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bnvk hehe
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tantek ship code first, foundations second
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aaronpk what is payment?
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Loqi payment in the context of the indieweb refers to a feature on an indie web site that provides a way for the visitor to that website to pay (currency, gift card credit, etc.) the person represented by that indie web site http://indiewebcamp.com/payment
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tantek :)
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bnvk tantek: you productivity fascist, you!
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tantek bnvk - nah, I just prefer personal productivity over paying a bunch of lawyers to sound all fancy (Look we have a foundation!)
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tantek.com edited /interactions (+122) "/* Responses */ cite" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] http://home.tylergillies.club/2014/this-is-awesome-squeeee linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/payment (webmention)
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aaronpk ha this is great
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/jshardison/status/494894345107943424
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@jshardison Remember how social media was supposed to "kill email?" Guess who sends me the most email? Social media tool vendors. (twitter.com/_/status/494894345107943424)
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@mik3cap @itsmisscs haven't been following #indieweb, what's the gist? (twitter.com/_/status/494896237410144256)
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johncash So true
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tantek.com edited /interactions (+635) "processed IRC citations into actual copy/pasting of opinions inline" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk, johncash nah, makes complete sense. social media tool vendors are trying to kill email by DoSing it.
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johncash LOLOLOLOL
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aaronpk hahaha
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bnvk aaronpk: haha, yah that's great. Someone was JUST complaining about that to me last night- social notification emails
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johncash They've actually done a quite brilliant job of that
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tantek precisely
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tantek they're poisoning the email well
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ben_thatmustbeme I don't understand how people can do it. My wife gets like hundreds of e-mails a day. If I get 30 I feel like i got a ton. I just remove myself from everything I can
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tantek wonders if there's an opportunity for "embridgy" - that receives emails on your behalf from social silos and then sends you webmentions to your original posts accordingly.
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bnvk ben_thatmustbeme: same here :)
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donpdonp bnvk: same
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bnvk tantek: sounds like a job Mailpile could do relatively easily ;)
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tantek like a TripIt for social emails
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bnvk I've thought a lot about that…
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snarfed.org edited /interactions (+277) "/* Responses */ bridgy" (view diff)
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hmans \o/ #pants on Heroku: https://github.com/hmans/pants/wiki/Deploying-on-Heroku \o/
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donpdonp bnvk: i take it you've seen https://sandstorm.io/ (personal cloud platform)? the demo has mailpile as an option
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hmans If someone wants to give it a go.
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aaronpk related: http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/01/07/1/email-lifehack
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tantek hmans - see if you can get the Sandstorm.io guys to give it a go
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bnvk donpdonp: oh yes, I've hung out at the devs sweet wired house in SV
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hmans tantek, I will need to read up on sandstorm. Saw the link earlier, didn't grok it 100%.
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snarfed tantek: re email-to-wm, http://bcc.npdoty.name/ is pretty cool. (it sends webmentions)
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hmans Something something containerized apps? Sounds good. I've been experimenting with Docker. Are they Docker-based?
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donpdonp bnvk: cool.
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aaronpk npdoty++
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Loqi npdoty has 2 karma
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bnvk hmans: no, not Docker based
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tantek npdoty++
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Loqi npdoty has 3 karma
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tantek hmans, what is sandstorm?
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Loqi Sandstorm is open source software project that aims to make self-hosted personal clouds easy as well as offering a hosted paid version for less technically inclined users http://indiewebcamp.com/sandstorm
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tantek hmans, what is Docker?
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Loqi Docker is an open platform for server-side applications http://indiewebcamp.com/Docker
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tantek this is kind of genius: https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/421060756843417601
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@benwerd @aaronpk I sincerely like the idea of making (unsolicited, at least) conversation public. (twitter.com/_/status/421060756843417601)
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hmans Just wondering if there's a reason why it's not piggybacking on Docker's current momentum.
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tantek hmans, could you document Docker's "current momentum" on indiewebcamp.com/Docker ?
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tantek has not heard of any such momentum.
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bnvk hmans: I think because the dev of Sandstorm was involved with creating protocol buffers and is very Google style in his approach things
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hmans Uh, sure :)~
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bear docker is very big in the devops/sysadmin realm right now
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snarfed tantek, hmans: docker absolutely has a lot of momentum currently
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tantek bear please add citations of such to /Docker
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@davidmead Good for you @bradcolbow. I can highly recommend looking at https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started and start owning yr tweets etc. too :-) #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/494899513732378624)
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bnvk I've been hearing about Docker pretty solid for over a year now, people were keen to bug Mailpile being a Docker install
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aaronpk yeah I keep hearing about it. I haven't started using it tho, I'm still on traditional Linode VPS stack and getting all fancy with AWS automation
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tantek anyway - optimizing backend foo is not very high on my personal itch-list so for those whom it interests, please document as such on the wiki. I mean, might as well capture it if it's apparently so interesting and has momentum.
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tantek OTOH, this is awesome, another silo-quit: https://twitter.com/bradcolbow/status/494894162454777856
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@bradcolbow Decided to move all my blog posts from Medium and Tumblr back to my own site http://bradcolbow.com/blog.html (twitter.com/_/status/494894162454777856)
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bear.im edited /Docker (+15) "update dfn" (view diff)
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bear what is docker
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Loqi Docker is an open platform to manage light-weight LXC based containers http://indiewebcamp.com/Docker
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bear starts adding more details...
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tantek what is LXC?
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hmans Docker still has some way to go, but it essentially allows me to set up a new server/VM, tell it to run #pants, and it's done.
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tantek hopes we can avoid "jargons all the way down" type defintions. ;)
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snarfed.org edited /Docker (+376) "usage" (view diff)
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bear yea, that is what i'm struggling with even with this first edit
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tantek.com edited /silo-quits (+250) "Brad Colbow, Medium, Tumblr" (view diff)
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hmans Biggest problem with Docker right now is that almost everyone talking about it is in deep into devops, and only very few people think about the benefits it (potentially) has for "normal people", too.
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tantek hmans - perhaps you can add that to an "Issues" section on /Docker ?
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hmans So it's hard to find literature that doesn't go all-out on jargon
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tantek that too!
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bear hmans - list those questions in "issues" - i'm gathering tabs now on docker and will backfill stuff today/tonight
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tantek diggs into bcc.npdoty.name and finds RSVP posts!
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tantek s/diggs/digs
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Loqi tantek meant to say: digs into bcc.npdoty.name and finds RSVP posts!
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tantek lol - sorry
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npdoty ha, I like that Loqi vocally respects our regex syntax
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npdoty Loqi++
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Loqi Loqi has 277 karma
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hmans.io edited /Docker (+241) (view diff)
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hmans.io edited /Docker (+50) "/* Issues */" (view diff)
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tantek npdoty *how* is this happening? automatically? I'll <data class="p-rsvp" value="maybe">try to make it</data> tonight
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tantek in http://bcc.npdoty.name/Re-Homebrew-Website-Club-July-30-2014
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npdoty ha
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npdoty no, I handwrote the HTML
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tantek in your email client?!?
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bear.im edited /Docker (+330) "added definition of LXC" (view diff)
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npdoty sadly, again no, I wrote it as a blog post
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npdoty the idea was to get bcc.npdoty.name to accept email messages to at least create drafts of these blog posts
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hmans.io edited /Docker (+92) (view diff)
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npdoty but I use it infrequently enough that I'm just writing up HTML in the blog interface
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npdoty it has some custom fields for the email headers
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tantek oh ok you have *both* an authoring UI for it, and it receives emails and turns them into posts, got it
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tantek but it displays *every* post like an email message
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tantek with headers, content etc.
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tantek lol your "Reply" link is a mailto!
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tantek.com created /2014/PDF (+401) "stub with links about PDF, video etc." (view diff)
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npdoty yeah, I decided that the basic premise should be an email message, that every blog post I write has some audience
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npdoty and so often they're actually emails that I'm writing in my mail client, and other times I write a blog post and just give it mail-type headers that seem appropriate
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tantek.com created /events/2014-07-30-hwc (+53) "r" (view diff)
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npdoty and then I actually do get a few email responses via that Reply mailto link
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gregorlove.com edited /Main_Page (+0) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ next HWC" (view diff)
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hmans Added rel="following" markup to http://hmans.io/following
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gregorlove.com created /events/2014-08-13-homebrew-website-club (+3689) "Initial event. Please confirm venues for SF, PDX" (view diff)
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npdoty pants.social is quite a domain name
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hmans \o/
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hmans Lovely new gtlds...
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tantek I totally forgot to mention at HWC last night that I 1) added fragmentions support to tantek.com, and 2) held the first W3C Social Web WG telcon on Tuesday!
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tantek I think I was too tired to think clearly last night.
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tantek (on the topic of what's new in your indieweb life since the last HWC meetup)
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:hwc-2014-211-sf.jpg]]""
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (+89) "/* Photos */ add SF photo" (view diff)
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bnvk dinner time, bye y'all
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tantek has anyone implemented indieweb "follow"?
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tantek or for that matter, indieweb "add friend"?
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tantek for some reason I'm getting a lot of random friend requests on Foursquare from around the world of people I don't know.
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hmans Kind of on it
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tantek might be nice to have an option in the software to only allow friend requests from people that are already friends of friends.
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hmans When you follow someone with your #pants site, they'll be listed on /following, and your #pants will send a webmention to the followed user's homepage.
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tantek or rather, people who have at least one friend in common
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tantek otherwise reject
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tantek we had quite a bit of discussion last night at HWC SF about "mute" and "block" features.
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jenmontes.com edited /business-models (+378) "The challenges of charging end-users for indieweb services" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (+93) "/* Photos */ POSSE copy on IG" (view diff)
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tantek cuibonobo++ thanks for that, it is an excellent reminder
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Loqi cuibonobo has 5 karma
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cuibonobo tantek: sure thing
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tantek ok so - has anyone else found any confusion with "Homebrew" Website Club implying beer or a brewing focus? E.g. https://twitter.com/daviddaileysru/status/484544870015455232
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@daviddaileysru @t @MozSF I was delighted when I discovered that there was open source beer. I told my students about it as soon as I found out! (twitter.com/_/status/484544870015455232)
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tantek wonders if we should open HWC meetings with jokingly asking if anyone is brewing their own beer.
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ben_thatmustbeme you should
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Loqi definitely
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ben_thatmustbeme i don't drink beer. but i make my own pickles
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tantek !tell aaronpk any photos from the PDX HWC indieweb hack night?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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cuibonobo tantek: when I think of "homebrew" the first thing that comes to my mind is actually home-made / indie games
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cuibonobo like homebrew NES cartriges
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tantek cuibonobo: that's a good association!
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cuibonobo i was checking out stellar.org (bnvk linked to it) and the first thing you see when you log in is "Receive your first stellars on us! Log in with Facebook"
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tantek I don't know if that's funny or sad.
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cuibonobo there's a "Why Facebook?" link that says "We are currently using Facebook as a verification method to avoid spam but hope to add other methods soon. We will not post on your Facebook."
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aaronpk tantek: yes I actaully had a guy show up at the front door thinking that there was free beer at one of the meetups
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 40 minutes ago: any photos from the PDX HWC indieweb hack night?
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aaronpk no photos, sorry
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aaronpk just got an invite to the google domains beta
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tantek.com created /hwc (+35) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /HWC (+35) "r" (view diff)
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aaronpk WHOA amazon is doing domain registration now too!
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aaronpk http://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/route-53-domain-reg-geo-route-price-drop/
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tantek.com edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+278) "/* Structure */ more substructure, times, group photo 2" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - in case it helps: http://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club#Structure :)
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tantek (two opportunities / reminders for group photos)
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aaronpk cool
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aaronpk last night we intentionally did more of a hack session than the normal schedule
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tantek that's totally cool - perhaps the just before meeting close time would work well then
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tantek which is when we took our photo last night (I forgot to at transition time)
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tantek so I just added http://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club#HWC_Group_Photo_2 accordingly
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tantek (documenting existing working practice(s) as it were)
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tantek definitely add what you've learned from organizing HWC
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tantek.com edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+93) "feels fairly complete - no longer a stub, note first SF meeting" (view diff)
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@Jon__Stone @temporaryhummus @temporaryhuman probably more because you advocated #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/494936156296192000)
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@de_rossi152 RT @t: going to Homebrew Website Club Wed 30th 18:30 @MozSF, 17:30 writing hr http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club & http://www.facebook.com/events/682246018521339 (ttk.me t4XD2) (twitter.com/_/status/494943459321868288)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/t/491832528580247552/494943459321868288 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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@hubculture We're crafting an open Digital Bill of Rights for @hubculture with @medialab ++ What do you think? #ownyourdata https://twitter.com/hubculture/status/494949605797535747/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/494949605797535747)
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@Limelight101 The NASCAR problem… what do you want to say and WHO is speaking? http://indiewebcamp.com/NASCAR_problem http://indiewebcamp.com/NASCAR_problem (twitter.com/_/status/494951396018749440)
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gregorlove.com created /W3C (+686) "Created page with "{{stub}} The '''<dfn>World Wide Web Consortium</dfn> (W3C)''' is an international standards organization for the world wide web. == Social Web Working Group == In 2014, {{tant..."" (view diff)
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gRegor` tantek, KevinMarks, aaronpk: ^ Initial /W3C page. Please contribute the issues that were touched on in chat.
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gRegor` is investigating the different /reply-context examples to find something I like for my own notes.
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gRegor` "full" reply-context, that is. I currently have minimal "in reply to a [post on domain]"
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tantek gRegor`: could you upload a screenshot of what you currently have to the respective section?
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tantek (for reply-context)
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gRegor` Yeah, just discovered /reply-context-examples actually
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@nchenga #POSSE: A clickable demo of my simple #indieweb blog http://chiperoni.ch/wordpress/2014/07/posse-a-clickable-demo-of-my-simple-indieweb-blog/ (twitter.com/_/status/494965871782019072)
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gRegor` Should we consolidate the examples on /reply-context to just be on /reply-context-examples?
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tantek gRegor`: my intent (which I probably need to make clearer) is to keep at least one illustrative example of each "level" of reply context on /reply-contex#IndieWeb_Examples, and then keep a comprehensive list on /reply-context-examples
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tantek I for one have found doing good reply-contexts difficult, and hope that by breaking it down into incremental levels like that it encourages more people to at least *start* implementing and then level up at their own convenience / itch-scratch opportunity
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tantek perhaps worth capturing this reasoning on the page itself?
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gregorlove.com edited /reply-context-examples (+203) "/* Indieweb Examples */ Adding myself, photo to come." (view diff)
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gRegor` Yeah, I think that distinction would be good to capture on the page. It appeared to me at first glance like the list started on /reply-context but then as people started posting more photos / longer descriptions of it, a separate page was created.
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gregorlove.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:gregorlove-reply-context-2014-07-31.png]]""
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gregorlove.com edited /reply-context-examples (+56) "/* gRegor Morrill */" (view diff)
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gRegor` My /reply-context-examples is a note in reply to KartikPrabhu and it happens to appear right after KartikPrabhu's example, too. :)
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KartikPrabhu dope
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tantek KartikPrabhu - regarding marginalia/annotation UI, check this out: https://annotary.com/
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KartikPrabhu tantek: you mean to actually create marginalia?
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tantek correct
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tantek like inline on your articles
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KartikPrabhu yeah... that combined with some micropub publishing to your own site would be neat
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tantek such a UI could then auth via IndieAuth to someone's own site, use micropub to post the marginalia to their website, send a webmention back to your article, and have it show up immediately, live.
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tantek Medium lets you type in marginalia immediately by clicking the little (+) in a talk bubble icon
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tantek I feel like that's the next step for marginalia
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tantek since you've already got *receiving* them and *displaying* them figured out and implemented
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KartikPrabhu yes it is... it is the next step for indie-responses in geenral
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tantek now it's providing a UI for *writing* them
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tantek it's particularly important/relevant for marginalia since those are *even more context-sensitive* like to the specific phrase or paragraph
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KartikPrabhu nods
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tantek whereas comments on an whole article/post are ok if you just remember the gist of the article while you're writing in another window
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KartikPrabhu fo sho
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KartikPrabhu presently I want to make at least a "fragmention" getter, so people can select text and get its fragmention immediately
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KartikPrabhu then figure out this micropub thingie
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tantek ooh - a fragmention getter! please add that as a brainstorm to the citation UI stuff
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/citation#User_Interface
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jonnybarnes.uk edited /IRC_People (-1) "Using new domain now" (view diff)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: you could use this trick to append the fragmention URL to the end of the selected text: http://indiewebcamp.com/citation#append_to_text_selection_copy
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KartikPrabhu tantek: here is a rather old demo: https://kartikprabhu.com/static/demo/fragmention.html does very simple fragmentions at the moment... no checking for multiple instances and so on
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KartikPrabhu select text - gives a floating LINK to it
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jonnybarnes.uk created /User:Jonnybarnes.uk (+113) "Get my new user page set-up" (view diff)
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tantek nice! definitely add that as an option / idea / new subsection of http://indiewebcamp.com/citation#User_Interface
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KartikPrabhu yeah will do in the evening
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tantek KartikPrabhu: lol that your old demo uses "Gregor" as a character. (sorry gRegor` )
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KartikPrabhu haha yes :P
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KartikPrabhu that did come up at HWC once
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jonnybarnes.uk edited /User:Jonnybarnes.net (-85) "/* Jonny Barnes.net */ Redirect to new user page under new domain" (view diff)
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tantek whoa I didn't know you could get .uk TLDs!
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tantek I thought they all had to be .co.uk
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KartikPrabhu new stuff like last month or two
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tantek !tell jonnybarnes could you add a new "uk" section to http://indiewebcamp.com/short-domains#domains explaining how you got jonnybarnes.uk?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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jonnybarnes tantek: will do
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Loqi jonnybarnes: tantek left you a message 59 seconds ago: could you add a new "uk" section to http://indiewebcamp.com/short-domains#domains explaining how you got jonnybarnes.uk?
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tantek thanks jonnybarnes!
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jonnybarnes tantek: you want this on the short-domains page? we should ask aaronpk about it as well, I think he tried to register pk.uk but couldn't because pk.co.uk had been regsitred and they get dibs for some period of time
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jonnybarnes i.e. its i dont think its easy to get a short .uk domain
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tantek yes definitely please document such experiences there on a new "uk" subsection of that section I linked
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tantek wonders if someone already has tukt.uk
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johncash You have to live in UK to get a uk domain though
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tantek please add that detail also to /short-domains#uk once jonnybarnes has started that section
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jonnybarnes.uk edited /short-domains (+425) "/* domains */ Adding .uk section" (view diff)
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bear they require identity proof for the new .uk
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bear tld
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tantek bear - if you have a citation for that please add to /short-domains#uk
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jonnybarnes heres the ref from the wikipedia article about .uk domains being reserved: http://www.dotuklaunch.uk/dates-and-definitions
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jonnybarnes bear: I swear iwantmyname.com just registered the domain for me
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bear see this namecheap article https://www.namecheap.com/support/knowledgebase/article.aspx/251/36/are-there-any-specific-requirements-for-registering-a-uk-domain
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bear it's like .ca in that you have to have a address in your whois that is inside that country
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tantek yup - I believe you - just add it to that page accordingly
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bear yep - was just finishing the thought while I log into the wiki
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tantek.com created /User:ShaneHudson.net (+80) "stub with an h-card" (view diff)
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bear.im edited /short-domains (+310) "add note about address requirements for uk tld" (view diff)
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jonnybarnes bear: section 7 in here http://www.nominet.org.uk/uk-domain-names/registering-uk-domain/choosing-domain-name/rules
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jonnybarnes anyone can actually register a .uk domain
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bear but they have to have a contact address *in* then UK ?
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tantek oh hey that's much easier
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jonnybarnes yeah, thats worth putting in the wiki
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bear and then this part "The sale of third level registrations to unrelated third parties is not permitted" says that you can't use a third party's address
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jonnybarnes but techinically, anyoe can register a .uk domain
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bear i'll adjust the text to read "anyone with a UK mailing address"
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bear and change the namecheap link to this one and call out section 7
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jonnybarnes no, that meand if I register cool.uk, I can't sell you the domain super.cool.uk
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bear ohhh
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jonnybarnes bear: great
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bear adjusts text more
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tantek !tell barnabywalters so now that top level .uk registrations have opened up, are you going to get waterpigs.uk ? /short-domains#uk
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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bear can someone loan me a uk address
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bear :)
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bear someone from the uk should jump on this -- y.uk is available :)
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tantek how are all the single letters not already taken like instantly?
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bear.im edited /short-domains (-100) "better link and more accurate text" (view diff)
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bear unless namecheap was lieing to me
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jonnybarnes http://www.nominet.org.uk/whois/lookup?query=y.uk
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jonnybarnes y.co.uk has rights over the domain :(
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tantek that makes sense
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tantek reasonable policy to avoid annoying squatting / overhead
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aaronpk I tried getting pk.uk, barnaby even was going to let me borrow his mailing address
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aaronpk but pk.co.uk has first dibs for several years
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willnorris voxpelli: webmention.herokuapp.com doesn’t seem to be parsing my author hcard on https://willnorris.com/2014/07/one-step-forward-two-steps-back. Have you seen any issues with that?
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willnorris aaronpk: you have any idea why I’m getting two duplicate authors here: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwillnorris.com%2F2014%2F07%2Fone-step-forward-two-steps-back ?
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willnorris is the Google+ rel=author getting parsed somehow?
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aaronpk it *might* be because by default pin13 parses legacy microformats
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tantek lol "Google+ rel=author"
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aaronpk "classic"
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aaronpk try http://waterpigs.co.uk/php-mf2/?
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tantek willnorris: it's just "rel=author" :)
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willnorris well yes, but I added it specifically for google+
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tantek willnorris - it's at the bottom of that pin13 result - in the "rels" collection, "author" key
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tantek also - you shouldn't need to use rel=author to link to your G+ profile - that should be a rel=me
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aaronpk google authorship has some specific requirements
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tantek you should link to your *homepage* willnorris.com with rel=me
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willnorris yes, it should be. except google+ requires rel=author for their authorship stuff
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aaronpk to get your photo to show up
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Loqi fo sho
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tantek and then on your home page use rel=me to link to G+
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tantek aaronpk, willnorris I know that
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tantek hence why I am saying the above - which they implemented back in the day when they first implemented rel=author
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tantek they only require rel=me to your G+ profile *once* from your *homepage*, assuming your *posts* link to your homepage with rel=author
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tantek anyway - Google has broken so much indieweb search recently it's really bad
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tantek they basically stopped responding to PuSH notifications
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tantek they stopped indexing all posts (they used to)
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tantek so now they're very poor for site-specific search
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tantek (i.e. indieweb site search boxes)
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willnorris aaronpk: okay yeah… it’s because I’m using both uf1 and uf2 syntax
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