#indiewebcamp 2014-08-03

2014-08-03 UTC
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@maniaravings @schnarfed Hello Ryan. I am just wading into Webmentions & have little clue even of there is an error. Nevertheless thankyou for the headsup (twitter.com/_/status/495740060311257089)
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Loqi acegiak: tantek left you a message 1 week ago: could you take a look at https://indiewebcamp.com/in-reply-to and let me know if it helps clarify rel-in-reply-to vs. u-in-reply-to vs. p-in-reply-to usage and consumption?
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@OscarSanFuentes Web.mention, la aplicación para monitorizar la reputación online http://oscarsanfuentes.blogspot.nl/2014/07/webmention-la-aplicacion-para.html?m=1 #socialmedia (twitter.com/_/status/495745908752252928)
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techlifeweb got IndieAuth working. Small steps.
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JonathanNeal techlifeweb: well done!
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acegiak does anyone have an example of how I should be doing h-cite and p-in-reply-to with reply context? https://indiewebcamp.com/in-reply-to https://indiewebcamp.com/in-reply-to kind of skirts around it
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acegiak oh wait, the reply context page s a bit clearer
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techlifeweb JonathanNeal: thanks!
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KartikPrabhu acegiak: use <div class="p-in-reply-to h-cite>Reply context here with a u-url if needed</div>
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JonathanNeal I like that indiewebcamp prides itself on real world examples. I also wish there was always a bare bones demonstration.
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: was fragmention.js updated to fix the n-th instance thingie?
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JonathanNeal when i get jonneal going, i must make bare bones versions to share.
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: n-th instance is very tricky, did we talk about that?
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KartikPrabhu hmm not that I recall
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KartikPrabhu what is the issue?
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JonathanNeal Let me jot it down in a notepad, get it clear, then post it here.
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KartikPrabhu cool. would be good to sort this out before finalizing my fragmention-getter UI
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JonathanNeal First, fragmention.js only searches presentional text, i.e. innerText, i.e. CSS visible content. It does not search all text in the DOM tree.
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KartikPrabhu really? so if I display things when viewport is small it will give diff. result?
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JonathanNeal Precisely. If you can’t select the text, it’s not fragmention-able.
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KartikPrabhu weird!
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JonathanNeal Well, why would you want to link to something that isn’t really there?
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: I could choose to do display=none depending on the viewport size for example. then the fragmentioned link will break depending on the browser width of the person I send it to.
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JonathanNeal Yes. What behavior would you expect otherwise?
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KartikPrabhu fragmentioned URLs would be very unreliable
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: yeah... this is hard to fix but important
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JonathanNeal I don’t know what other kind of behavior you would expect, so I don’t know what to fix about it.
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JonathanNeal It made sense to me that accessible text = fragmention-able text.
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KartikPrabhu what happens with usual fragment links if the element is hidden?
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JonathanNeal define usual
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JonathanNeal like, ids?
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KartikPrabhu yeah
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KartikPrabhu here is my use case: I am on a desktop and I see some text and send a fragmentioned link to you. You are on mobile where that particular phrase happens to be hidden, then my link will fail
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KartikPrabhu with me on desktop I have no way of knowing that the link will fail for you
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JonathanNeal that happens regardless of anything we’ve discussed yet.
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JonathanNeal If I decide to redirect all IE7 users off a page, your link fails then, to.
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JonathanNeal *too
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KartikPrabhu yeah but redirect = going to another URL. but this is the same URL that fails depending on the browser size
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KartikPrabhu I'd like more people to chip in on this.
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JonathanNeal I’m not sure hiding text from a mobile device is a practice that should ever be recommended for non-app content.
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KartikPrabhu I agree. but linking should not depend on that i think... maybe open a github issue and ask people's thoughts on whether/how to fix this?
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JonathanNeal I’m not convinced this is a use case that should be considered, because it’s a deliberate act by the author or publisher to remove the text from Google Search, ATs, and eyeballs.
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KartikPrabhu hmmm possibly
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KartikPrabhu ok was there a Second?
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acegiak kartikprabhu: ok looks like im doing things right
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KartikPrabhu acegiak: URL... if you'd like me to confirm :)
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acegiak acegiak.net
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KartikPrabhu also testing with phpmf2 should be helpful
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: Yes, it is extremely difficult to determine the order of the common ancestor of searchable text.
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JonathanNeal Let us consider this example, <p><span>h</span>ello <strong>hello</strong> hello</p> = [p, strong, p]
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KartikPrabhu acegiak: you might want to use e-content rather than p-content. e-* also parses the included HTML for others to use if need be
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acegiak ah, cool!
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: the issue is looking for hello?
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JonathanNeal fragmention works by checking the innerText of a node, counting the number of matches, and then subtracting from that number each time a child node has innerText with a match.
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acegiak apparently my multiverb posts are confusing barnaby's interpereter
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JonathanNeal Because it works this way, I can’t determine the order of multiple matches with one commonAncestor very well. If I sorted them by order, I would get [p, p, strong] instead of [p, strong, p]
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KartikPrabhu acegiak: yeah I don't think many people parse multiverb responses yet. I have a priority order for verbs
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JonathanNeal The issue is how one searches for text and determines a match.
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@lorenaInc RT @OscarSanFuentes: Web.mention, la aplicación para monitorizar la reputación online http://oscarsanfuentes.blogspot.nl/2014/07/webmention-la-aplicacion-para.html?m=1 #socialmedia (twitter.com/_/status/495755946162139137)
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: gotcha
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acegiak KartikPrabhu: oh that's a good solution
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KartikPrabhu yeah this one is strange too
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KartikPrabhu acegiak: reply > repost > like > mention
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: this one really is an issue with how to correctly parse and find parent element of innerText. definitely open an issue with this example. I might try to tackle this sometime
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acegiak kartikprabhu: do you have a unified articles and notes feed? rss or mf2 works for me
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KartikPrabhu acegiak: unfortunately not. articles and notes are separate for now due to my database stuff :(
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acegiak kk.
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KartikPrabhu acegiak: also I haven't yet gotten a large demand for notes feed, it definitely exists as mf2 h-feed though
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acegiak that's a pretty common divide. i dont have that divide and now im trying to work out how to make notes(asides) not push articles off the front page
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KartikPrabhu yeah that was a problem too. Notes being more frequent tend to hijack the feed
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: I am going to try somethign with getSelection.
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: this is for returning a fragmention when reader selects some text?
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acegiak im trying to see if i can make wordpress have X latest articles always display at the top of the feed
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acegiak all the posts are timestamped so anyone's feed reader should be able to work out how to display in actual chronological order
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KartikPrabhu acegiak: yeah feed readers should be fine. I haven't been able to figure how to have a mixed stream on the site itsel
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acegiak yeah if you've got to merge from two datasets it's tricky
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KartikPrabhu acegiak: even if you have one big dataset, it would be hard to decide how to give articles more importance on the timeline
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acegiak yeah i still havent worked out how i wabt to do it
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KartikPrabhu acegiak: if you figure out a solution let me know. I'm interested in this timeline issue too
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KartikPrabhu bear: do you think it is correct/reasonable to get mention links only inside a h-entry for ronkyuu? What if the URL has no mf2 markup?
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KartikPrabhu bear: updated ronkyuu let me know if something is wrong
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Loqi [mention] http://christopheducamp.com/2014/08/02/redirections-urls-dans-jekyll/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieMark (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://christopheducamp.com/2014/08/02/redirections-urls-dans-jekyll/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/permashortcitation (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://christopheducamp.com/2014/08/02/redirections-urls-dans-jekyll/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieMark#Level_2_syndication (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://christopheducamp.com/2014/08/02/redirections-urls-dans-jekyll/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/permalinks-fr (webmention)
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@pierreozoux @schnarfed @maniaravings Yes, working again. But still have an issue, it is saying "No webmention support", but, I have one.. Do you know? (twitter.com/_/status/495783505490890752)
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GWG Evening
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acegiak GWG: morning
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GWG acegiak: What's up? Haven't seen you in a while.
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acegiak I'm pretty busy with a studying a small business management course
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acegiak but I came on today because I noticed a post of minen got interpereted weirdly by barnaby's site
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GWG Oh?
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acegiak cause it's a multiverb post it only interperets one of the verbs
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GWG Well, I know you and I had that discussion
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acegiak yeah
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: so far no success on the javascript range solution.
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GWG acegiak: I need to get back to working on that plugin.
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acegiak GWG: same
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GWG Well, I stopped to work on that theme of mine, and have been a bit occupied
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: that's no good
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JonathanNeal still trying
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acegiak GWG: your theme is pretty rad
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GWG acegiak: The new one or the old one?
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acegiak whatever your site is running at the moment
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GWG Yes.
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GWG I've been rewriting it with a better backend
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acegiak cool
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GWG http://tiny.n9n.us/
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GWG How does it look?
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acegiak the dark grey reply contexts need to be less heavy? looks good though
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GWG acegiak: The styling for those comes from the plugin.
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acegiak yeah, that makes sense
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GWG I can fiddle with that.
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GWG But, to deploy it, I need an h-card widget
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GWG I've never written a widget
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GWG acegiak: One of the things I started to do was better design the theme for greater flexibility.
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GWG The h-card on the current theme is a hard-coded placeholder I meant to fix.
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@kevinmarks "@sarahmei: it must be 1999 again, because I'm spending my saturday night updating my homepage and drinking beer" #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/495808936042569728)
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@Nyssen11 RT @gigaom: Startup @SandstormIO wants to make decentralized hosting of indieweb apps viable, thanks to a personalized cloud. http://t.co/c… (twitter.com/_/status/495813451517034497)
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@quanghoc Yay!! @kevinmarks @sarahmei it must be 1999 again, because I'm spending my saturday night updating my homepage and drinking beer #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/495821477095018498)
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
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bret im attending http://testthewebforward.org/ this morning. :)
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bret they need CSP tests
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tantek bret is that in Portland
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tantek ?
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bret yeah
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tantek how many there have their own website? have you been asking around?
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bret have not asked yet still just getting started
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tantek see if you can find more indieweb folks!
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bret always looking :)
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techlifeweb Deciding on a theme for WP. Considering Sempress based on reading the IndieWebCamp wiki. Anyone have one they like better or are working on one that they'd like to share?
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GWG techlifeweb: I'm working on one
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lewiscowper Evening all. :)
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techlifeweb GWG: I think I saw a link to your test site yesteday. Looks very nice.
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techlifeweb Hi lewiscowper
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GWG techlifeweb: I need to write on thing before deployment
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GWG An h-card widget
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techlifeweb GWG: Nice. I'll keep an eye on your progress.
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@kevinmarks @xmlgrrl @OhMeadhbh @izs this is why I like IndieAuth and the redundant array of silo logins it uses (twitter.com/_/status/496004904398635008)
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@xmlgrrl @kevinmarks @ohmeadhbh @izs Interesting. The keybase.io people should get together w/ @IndieWebCamp for auth UX on top of encryption. (twitter.com/_/status/496005884829376512)
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techlifeweb Sempress h-entry doesn't quite validate. I have categories but they are missing p-category. Seeing if I can figure out the code.
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@kevinmarks @xmlgrrl @OhMeadhbh @izs @indiewebcamp some experiments there already: http://indiewebcamp.com/pgp by @aaronpk @sandeepshetty (twitter.com/_/status/496006873481740289)
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@xmlgrrl @kevinmarks @ohmeadhbh @izs @indiewebcamp @aaronpk @sandeepshetty Good to know. It's a promising time for higher-quality ID reuse for auth. (twitter.com/_/status/496010684480495616)
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KartikPrabhu1 might be of interest to folks here: http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2014/08/01/build-blog-jekyll-github-pages/
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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KartikPrabhu welcome ella
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ella Hey, there. I'm always instantly disoriented in IRC, eheh. I've been back and forth with NickServ but apparently I was able to change nick. Anyway...
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ella I've been experimenting with a couple of the wordpress POSSE plugins and I'm coming up against a bit of a road block, I was wondering if anyone here would be able to weigh in.
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KartikPrabhu ella: hmm there are a lot of wordpress users here. I'm not one of them though. You should ask away and people will reply (even if not now)
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KartikPrabhu or I can try :)
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ella I initially installed Social, and really liked the way the comment integration/syndication worked but the post publish isn't very robust. I tried NextScripts and really like the flexibility of the posts (especially being able to post an image with a comment. The problem here is that it'll just pull in comments made on Facebook and drop them into my wordpress comment feed. I can't respond to them, or at least this seems to be the ca
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KartikPrabhu ella: your message seems to have hit the IRC char limit wall
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ella I feel like I'm missing something obvious. Unfortunately, I can't use both Social and NextScripts in tandem because Social doesn't recognize the NextScripts syndicated post. When I make a comment on a post I've syndicated via NextScripts it just generates a new post to my wall instead of commenting on the NextScripts generated post.
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KartikPrabhu oh this sounds way out of my wordpress depth... GWG, snarfed you guys have experience with Social and NextScripts ^^ ?
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snarfed hi ella
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snarfed they're both good, but you're right, they're not designed to interoperate
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ella Ah, okay. I didn't realize there was a char limit, sorry about that.
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snarfed re nextscripts and responding to comments from FB, you're right. your best bet is to comment on facebook, and then nextscripts will pull back that comment too
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ella Hm, that's too bad. Is there something else I could/should be using that will allow me to use NextScripts but bring the conversation from around the web into the WP comments string?
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ella Basically, I'd really like the functionality of the comment integration of Social and the posting ability of NextScripts. I don't mind if I need to achieve this some other way, if there's some other way out there I'm missing.
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snarfed got it. you could maybe use nextscripts + http://brid.gy/ instead of nextscripts + social
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snarfed you need the webmention plugin(s) for brid.gy to work, if you don't already have them
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snarfed this is a bundle for them: http://wordpress.org/plugins/indieweb/
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ella I feel lost at how brid.gy works. I'm signed up for it, and it says it's going to do all of these things. I do have webmentions and semantic-pingbacks installed (separately, not through the indieweb plugin). I must be missing something.
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snarfed no, it's bridgy's fault for not being clear enough then
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snarfed so you get comments, likes, etc on facebook, and bridgy doesn't send them back to you?
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snarfed is this you? https://www.brid.gy/facebook/17212441
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ella yeah, it's finding them https://www.brid.gy/facebook/17212441 but
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ella yes
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snarfed ok. looking at your twitter account, https://www.brid.gy/twitter/EllaDurham , it is successfully sending things back
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ella it seems like there should be some other step here to pull them into WP?
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snarfed i suspect you have many plugins trying to do the same thing, so they're conflicting with each other
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snarfed either nextscripts or social may be taking over your comments display, so the comments bridgy sent back aren't showing up
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ella Ahahahah, I feel like an idiot. It just seemed too automagical
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Loqi ahahaha
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KartikPrabhu be nice Loqi!
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Loqi yeah!
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ella Ah, okay, so the only thing here is that I can't comment on Facebook/Twitter from the WP comment box any longer?
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ella so, yeah, brid.gy is working http://ella.io/b/1C this post is pulling in all of the social convos not that I've disabled Social
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snarfed ok, good
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ella I guess all that means is that I'll have to continue social conversations on the respective silos but it'll all feed back in anyway so I guess that's not a huge deal. I did like being able to comment on FB from WP, but not a deal breaker.
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ella Thank you for taking time out of your afternoon to help me, ehehe. I'm glad I could at least provide a chuckle.
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snarfed ella: np! if you turn on "Show Avatars" on the Settings => Discussion page in your admin console, you'll also see those social comments' profile pictures
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snarfed (the ones from bridgy)
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ella awesome, thanks!
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KartikPrabhu any python folks around? have questions about setup.py and requirements
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bear waves
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KartikPrabhu wohooo
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KartikPrabhu bear: so I want to put github repos in my requirements.txt, but it seems that setup.py needs the requirements in the pipy format... is that correct?
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bear correct
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KartikPrabhu so no way to release my library to have the github repo as requirements?
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bear I am looking up the syntax...
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bear KartikPrabhu - https://pip.readthedocs.org/en/1.1/requirements.html#git
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bear try that - since setup.py is using the same core code that pip does (IIRC) - it may work
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KartikPrabhu yeah that works in requirements.py but if someone tries to pip install from my repo it will use setup.py right
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bear yes
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KartikPrabhu bear: you mean just put in setup.py and try it?
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bear yes
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KartikPrabhu ok attempting
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bear because pip will download the package and run setup.py and follow the install_requires
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bear this link explains what is going on behind the scenes - https://python-packaging-user-guide.readthedocs.org/en/latest/technical.html#requirements-files-vs-setup-py
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KartikPrabhu bear: cool thanks. will report with results of experiment
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bear k
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bear also, you should make sure your setup.py is "wheel friendly"
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bear wheel is the new pip (which was the new easy_install (which was the new source tarball))
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KartikPrabhu oh boy!
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KartikPrabhu bear: another motivation to separate Indieauth from Ronkyuu is the pyOpenSSL dependency which is a pain to install on a virtual server
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KartikPrabhu well minor pain
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bear yea - sorry about that ;)
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bear go ahead and remove it
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KartikPrabhu i figured it out... involves making a new local tmp directory but otherwise it is fine :)
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bear i've made a copy and will be creating ninka soon
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KartikPrabhu woohoo
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KartikPrabhu bear: yeah that does not work! gives "error in connection setup command: 'install_requires' must be a string or list of strings containing valid project/version requirement specifiers"
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bear k
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bear then you will need to package often :/
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KartikPrabhu as in?
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bear your trying to use your git repo as the source of a python package - right?
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KartikPrabhu yes
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bear yea, so you will need to push pypi packages instead
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bear or include notes on how to do a local dev install of a git dir
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KartikPrabhu i see
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KartikPrabhu so include installations as 'clone this repo and then use requirements.txt while installing'
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bear right
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KartikPrabhu ok let me try that in my virtualenv to see if it goes smoothly
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KartikPrabhu blergh this is complicated
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