#indiewebcamp 2014-08-05
2014-08-05 UTC
# 
@benwerd @oxfordgeeks Do you know what day OGN in December will be on, and are you at all interested in an #indieweb talk? (twitter.com/_/status/496447003807604736)
# 
Loqi why aren't we scrobbling to our own sites? (http://twtr.io/pFi82uTRN8)
# Loqi why aren't we scrobbling to our own sites? (http://twtr.io/pFiPpmrPoG)
# 
tantek.com moved /scrobbling to /scrobble "singular noun"
# Loqi A scrobble is a passive type of post used to publish a song (music or audio track) that you have listened to http://indiewebcamp.com/scrobbling
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# Loqi KartikPrabhu: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 12 minutes ago: could you stub a /marginalia page so we can ask Loqi what is marginalia?
# 
KartikPrabhu tantek: is marginalia not just a redirect to /annotation ?
# 
kartikprabhu.com edited /annotation (+18) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ updated to full site implementation" (view diff)
# KartikPrabhu suggestions for what to add?
# KartikPrabhu ha!
# KartikPrabhu as it stands the definition of annotation on /annotation is very specific and is exactly what marginalia is
# KartikPrabhu so one would have to change the /annotation dfn to match those of the "annotation advocates" ( annads for short ) and then move the real dfn to /marginalia
# KartikPrabhu so just scrap the /annotation page and make it /marginalia?
# KartikPrabhu ha! I am also looking for w3c dfn of annotation
# KartikPrabhu tantek: "An Annotation is considered to be a set of connected resources, typically including a body and target, where the body is somehow about the target. The full model supports additional functionality, enabling semantic annotations, embedding content, selecting segments of resources, choosing the appropriate representation of a resource and providing styling hints for consuming clients." from http://www.openannotat
# KartikPrabhu had never realised that annads do define annotation as anything
# KartikPrabhu "set of connected resources" you mean the Web ?
# KartikPrabhu judas priest! ok looking for the other annotation model
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# KartikPrabhu man this: https://code.google.com/p/annotation-ontology/wiki/Homepage does not even have a definition of the problem statement
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# KartikPrabhu tantek: 8/11 requirements stated here: https://code.google.com/p/annotation-ontology/wiki/Requirements can be done using mf2 (with some extensions) and marginalia!
# KartikPrabhu the only thing missing is for fragmention to refer to arbitrary type of resource instead of just text
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# Loqi KevinMarks: willnorris left you a message 3 days, 9 hours ago: I think they’re dropping the profile image from SERPs, but still showing minimal name-only authorship (http://searchengineland.com/google-plays-authorship-search-results-dropping-profile-image-google-circle-count-195163)
# KartikPrabhu yeah did you find a name for that yet?
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# 
KevinMarks so, on a "link to your profiles with icons" page there are icons for twitter, facebook g+
# KevinMarks what icon should one use for your indieweb site?
# KartikPrabhu your indieweb logo/photo
# KevinMarks list of founders of a company
# KevinMarks so there's already a photo in the h-card, so using a photo would be weird
# KartikPrabhu doesn't a little earth/globe represent "website" ?
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# KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: tantek: why not a home icon for homepage
# KartikPrabhu indiewebsite is supposed to be your internet home
# Loqi Your homepage represents you on the web, typically at the top of your domain, and shows your name and an iconic representation, often marked up with h-card http://indiewebcamp.com/%F0%9F%8F%A0
# KartikPrabhu tantek: remember I can't see your damn emojis ;)
# KevinMarks homepage are houses
# KevinMarks so you think http://thenounproject.com/term/globe/16523/
# KevinMarks nounprojetc make getting the svg kind annoying
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# 
tantek !tell aaronpk could you upload your webmention icon to iwc? https://github.com/converspace/webmention/issues/33#issuecomment-45328096
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# KevinMarks hm
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# KevinMarks that has an under construction vibe
# KevinMarks rembers why he dislikes CSS trying to add padding to an image
# KevinMarks I have to wrap it in something don't I
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# KevinMarks hm
# KartikPrabhu would be easy if people used SVG
# KartikPrabhu :P
# KartikPrabhu [citation needed] ;)
# KevinMarks I'm trying to float left and add some space to the right. Then i need a wrapping element?
# KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: you have URL? I can attempt
# KevinMarks not on web yet :(
# KartikPrabhu doesn't float:left margin-right:1em work?
# KevinMarks ah, I think I need to wrap the stuff it's floeting to the left of in an element to get the margin I want
# KartikPrabhu oh maybe display:inline or display:inline-block
# KevinMarks KartikPrabhu++
# KartikPrabhu :D
# KevinMarks if I add a big border they float ina weird way
# KartikPrabhu tantek: block elements behave strangely with float margin combo iirc
# KevinMarks I need to clear the float or something?
# KevinMarks float--
# KevinMarks I have a list of h-cards, with images in them
# KevinMarks I want the image on the left, text on the right thing to work
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# KevinMarks yeah I suppose so
# KevinMarks no, for another site I'm working on
# KevinMarks sorry
# KevinMarks OK
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# KevinMarks the original icon question was on topic
# tantek oops kylewm moved https://kylewm.com/admin/addressbook
# tantek so all we got is http://indiewebcamp.com/Red_Wind#Address_Book
# 
kylewm.com edited /nicknames-cache (-6) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ moved addressbook url" (view diff)
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# KevinMarks I get to use p-honorific-suffix yay
# KevinMarks MD
# KevinMarks also apparently MPH?
# tantek.com edited /events/2014-08-13-homebrew-website-club (+531) "add Minneapolis back in, leave in photo embed but commented out" (view diff)
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# 
@willnorris using nginx to proxy #indieweb webmention requests offiste, while still serving a static form on the same URL: https://willnorris.com/2014/08/proxying-webmentions-with-nginx (twitter.com/_/status/496486808859844608)
# 
willnorris (still planning to add this to webmention#IndieWeb_Examples … will do that after dinner)
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# tantek.com edited /events/2014-08-13-homebrew-website-club (+235) "confirmed SF location but capacity limited" (view diff)
# tantek !tell benwerd I confirmed location for /events/2014-08-13-homebrew-website-club - smaller room @MozSF: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-08-13-homebrew-website-club#Where - could you post an Indie event and FB POSSE copy?
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# 
@Strabd @wilkieii Will you make your microblog part of the IndieWeb http://indiewebcamp.com/ ? (twitter.com/_/status/496495281949507584)
# @Strabd @wilkieii IndieWeb was my first exposure to microformats, so I'm curious what the reason to promote them is. Other than Tantek liking them. (twitter.com/_/status/496499481693528064)
# @benwerd Drawing a line from @elgg to @withknown: an adventure in #edtech and #indieweb http://werd.io/2014/drawing-a-line-from-elgg-to-withknown-an-adventure-in (twitter.com/_/status/496501069497655296)
# Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/drawing-a-line-from-elgg-to-withknown-an-adventure-in linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
# 
willnorris.com edited /webmention (+577) "added webmention details for willnorris.com" (view diff)
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# willnorris Logi, could you add that then?
# willnorris loqi*
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# 
kylewm looks like it's as simple as http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-06-17/line/1403030927
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# 
@iNavegar Drawing a line from @elgg to @withknown: an adventure in #edtech and #indieweb http://werd.io/2014/drawing-a-line-from-elgg-to-withknown-an-adventure-in (twitter.com/_/status/496522752200036352)
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# 
JonathanNeal good evening, tantek!
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# KartikPrabhu tantek: how does one write definition ofr things like annotation on the wiki? any example page where a w3c recommedation with vague definition has been added?
# KartikPrabhu so what should a page titled annotation have?
# KartikPrabhu hmmm
# KartikPrabhu i don't know a generic dfn that is not the same as marginalia
# KartikPrabhu what is annotation?
# KartikPrabhu that page has the definition of marginalia since I think they are the same
# tantek the /marginalia page has no dfn
# KartikPrabhu tantek: I can add one but then it will the same as /annotation page.
# KartikPrabhu I don't know who made marginalia. I wrote up annotation
# KartikPrabhu hey you made marginalia tantek
# KartikPrabhu ok then I'll move stuff from /annotation to /marginalia and leave /annotation sort of blank as I don't know what it is
# KartikPrabhu yeah so I don't want /annotation to start with "annotation is everything!"
# KartikPrabhu yeah I'll leave such edits to others. I'll write about the marginalia stuff which I know
# KartikPrabhu tantek: I don't think I should move Medium's implementation to /marginalia right?
# KartikPrabhu aah ok. but I think they call it annotations
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# KartikPrabhu tantek: nvm they call it notes it seems: ref: https://medium.com/the-story/the-medium-blog-740412e41deb##leave%20us%20notes
# Loqi A note is a post that is typically short unstructured* plain text, written & posted quickly, that has its own permalink page http://indiewebcamp.com/notes
# KartikPrabhu yeah
# 
@voxpelli RT @willnorris: using nginx to proxy #indieweb webmention requests offiste, while still serving a static form on the same URL: https://t.co… (twitter.com/_/status/496539816390295554)
# KartikPrabhu tantek: just to be clear "marginalia" is to mean the part-of-post level comments or my particular implementation of it?
# KartikPrabhu alrighty!
# KevinMarks I think annotation includes marginalia style and rapgenius style
# KevinMarks ie selected words, not paragraph
# KevinMarks which will need fragmention to insert spans to highlight
# KartikPrabhu tantek: ^
# KartikPrabhu now what should I do with /annotation ?
# KartikPrabhu night
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# KartikPrabhu ok tantek is gone... anyone know a definition of annotation that isn't "this is everything" ?
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# KartikPrabhu well someone feels like improving that ^ go for it
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# 
KevinMarks3 I just got called out via webmention by my son
# KevinMarks3 http://www.kevinmarks.com##noob
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# KartikPrabhu KevinMarks3: badooom tshhh
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# KartikPrabhu oh he also uses known... neat!
# KevinMarks2 What is annotation?
# KartikPrabhu KevinMarks2: feel free to update that page with your thoughts. The idea was that /annotation should document the more general annotations that for example w3c wants vs marginalia that has been implemented already
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# JohKo users
# JohKo Hello altogether, my first time. Just discovered the website today. Are there any meetings/activities in Germany/Frankfurt area already?
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# 
barnabywalters greetings JohKo! welcome to #indiewebcamp
# barnabywalters there was an indiewebcamp held in Berlin this year
# barnabywalters and there are plenty of indieweb-minded people around — I personally don’t know about the Frankfurt area though
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# JohKo nice, thanks. checked the berlin meeting, seems it was with around 8 attendees? not too bad, though ;)
# JohKo I suppose best is to first setup my own page again and import all my posts from elsewhere to my domain and then become more active in this community, right?
# JohKo Would be great to have a one-click-install-package for daus and newbees that they can easily setup their indieweb with nearly no effort..or is there something like this already?
# JohKo Personally, I am a coder. So it should be managable to setup all the stuff manually as documented in the wiki... ;)
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# barnabywalters JohKo: setting up your own domain and importing siloed content sounds like an excellent plan!
# barnabywalters for any given silo, there’s often a page on the wiki with details on how to import content, e.g. http://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#Data_Export
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# JohKo barnabywalters: Thank you. I will truely use these ressources. Have to find a convenient way to remove dublicates resulting from syndication of my blogposts to my fb and tw feeds. ;)
# JohKo It's a little bit of a shame that I abandoned my once setup TYPO3-based blog/website with all the nice features (in these ancient times 10 y ago). Now re-inventing the thing with modern tools.
# JohKo cweise: thanks for the hint to withknown.com , subscribed.
# 
petermolnar @JohKo you could install known, it's fairly stable but not with too many features at the moment
# petermolnar I have it running on my host for test purposes and it's OK/not that flaky from stability
# petermolnar careful with git pull though :)
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# 
@coderpost nemex.io http://beta.nemex.io/ #apps #ideas #markdown #php #app #cms #Collaboration #curate #indieweb #selfhosting #selfhosted (twitter.com/_/status/496665523338219522)
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# kylewm willnorris: (re that wiki edit) http://josephboyle.net/ only works for me without the https
# willnorris kylewm: oh interesting… I’ll add back a note to that effect
# willnorris err wait, what? it works for you *without* the https?
# willnorris with http I get a standard nginx landing page. with https I get his real site
# willnorris.com edited /WordPress (+24) "Undo revision 11930 by [[Special:Contributions/Willnorris.com|Willnorris.com]] ([[User talk:Willnorris.com|talk]])" (view diff)
# willnorris okay, that’s really weird. lemme try a different browser
# barnabywalters yep, I get the site as normal over http, and nothing over https too
# willnorris huh. I even tried using lynx on my linode server and saw the same results… http => nginx landing page, https => wordpress site. Very strange. Maybe a DNS or caching issue somewhere
# willnorris I’ll sometimes see different results because I’m coming from Google’s IP space and malware will often do funny things based on IP to try and hide what it’s doing. but that’s not what’s happening here
# willnorris cuibonobo: ah, that’s quite possible. lemme try disabling ipv6
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# 
rascul willnorris this might be insightful http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Rascul.io/ssl
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# Loqi [mention] https://kylewm.com/share/2014/08/05/1 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-09-05/line/1378427562 (webmention)
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# 
@ShaneHudson @jaz_design @reasonsto Yeah I would love to go to that too, I want to do dconstruct and indiewebcamp, they are all the same week (twitter.com/_/status/496703170010431488)
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# 
ShaneHudson Loqi is so nosy
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# 
ben_thatmustbeme Loqi can be noisy ShaneHudson, but he is very useful
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# ShaneHudson nosy not noisy, watching me tweet :P but yeah 'he' is very useful!
# ben_thatmustbeme Loqi, you just defeated my argument. see if I defend you again
# Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message on 8/4 at 2:19pm: news / bad news. remember those session start errors we were seeing on tantek.dev/falcon ? now the same errors are happening on tantek.com/falcon, but I still haven't figured out what php.ini etc. magic I need to fix it - in either (or both) place(s).
# Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message on 8/4 at 6:10pm: could you upload your webmention icon to iwc? https://github.com/converspace/webmention/issues/33#issuecomment-45328096
# ben_thatmustbeme oh, yeah, misread that
# ben_thatmustbeme Loqi is part spy too
# 
aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:webmention-logo.svg]]""
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# aaronparecki.com edited /Special:Log/upload () "uploaded a new version of "[[File:webmention-logo.svg]]": try 500px version" (view diff)
# ben_thatmustbeme !tell tantek. setting session.save_path doesn't fix your session_start issues?
# ben_thatmustbeme !tell tantek setting session.save_path doesn't fix your session_start issues?
# aaronparecki.com edited /Special:Log/upload () "uploaded a new version of "[[File:webmention-logo.svg]]": larger?" (view diff)
# ben_thatmustbeme what was the issue? too big?
# ben_thatmustbeme strange
# aaronparecki.com edited /webmention (-139) "use wiki version of webmention logo instead of hotlinked" (view diff)
# ben_thatmustbeme is this a VPS or a shared server?
# ben_thatmustbeme do you ssh in to it?
# ben_thatmustbeme not the best method, but it will work
# ben_thatmustbeme the real question is whether you have root access or not
# ben_thatmustbeme honestly this is really something that should be fixed by the hosting provider anyway
# ben_thatmustbeme tantek, looks like others have hit this issue as well http://www.shdon.com/blog/2014/05/09/php-why-might-session_start-fail-claiming-no-such-file-or-directory
# ben_thatmustbeme might help
# ben_thatmustbeme figures. Its probably shared then
# ben_thatmustbeme at least my best guess would be that it is
# ben_thatmustbeme simplest solution, just start a ticket with your hosting provider
# ben_thatmustbeme probably the safest bet too
# tantek.com edited /PHP (+124) "/* session start failed */ Possible resolutions, if you're on a shared server" (view diff)
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# tantek ben_thatmustbeme: which of the 3 solutions listed in http://www.shdon.com/blog/2014/05/09/php-why-might-session_start-fail-claiming-no-such-file-or-directory would you say is the best/easiest/most reliable solution for a local dev setup?
# ben_thatmustbeme tantek, personally I would just do solution #2 if you aren't terribly sure of it. its the simplest solution I think
# ben_thatmustbeme since its local dev, it doesn't really matter security wise
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# barnabywalters aaronpk: oh is that why you were asking about microformat rendering code?
# 
aaronpk tantek: usually /etc/php.ini
# barnabywalters tantek: php --ini will tell you
# barnabywalters aaronpk: nice! looking forward to seeing it in action
# barnabywalters notices that I am almost 10% as karmic as aaronpk
# tantek Loaded Configuration File: /usr/local/lib/php.ini
# barnabywalters aaronpk: well, what’s your use case for creating collections in the first place?
# barnabywalters tantek: that’s a bit weird
# barnabywalters but if it tells you what path it looked in, you can just make one there and it should work
# ben_thatmustbeme tantek, just check /etc/php or /etc/php5. some distros have a different php.ini for cli vs apache
# ben_thatmustbeme perhaps the cli one is just missing
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# ben_thatmustbeme tantek, that is really odd
# ben_thatmustbeme you can just put a php.ini in your web root, it should pick it up
# ben_thatmustbeme ohhh, its on a mac
# barnabywalters oh are you using apache locally instead of the built in PHP server?
# ben_thatmustbeme yeah, i don't believe it does
# ben_thatmustbeme according to the internet /etc/php.ini.default is where osx keeps it
# ben_thatmustbeme or on lion anyway
# tantek oh yes I have a /etc/php.ini.default on my laptop apparently
# PMurphs ben_thatmustbeme: i think you're lion
# aaronpk PMurphs: hello! I don't see you on http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people ! (been away for a while and haven't met a lot of the new people here yet!)
# PMurphs I idle mostly
# PMurphs how's it going bro
# PMurphs don't have much set up because I've been busy/lazy, need to configure a new vhost for my new personal domain
# PMurphs and set some stuff up there heh
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# tantek so I was going to ask how do I restart apache, then decided to google for it and got http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/stopping.html
# PMurphs buuuut once I get things set up it'll be at http://www.retractableneckbeard.com/
# barnabywalters ick apache
# ben_thatmustbeme working with services in osx is frustrating
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# PMurphs needs to be able to bind to the iface
# PMurphs running it through a service daemon?
# ben_thatmustbeme i get that all the time
# PMurphs same
# PMurphs I bet I could pipe an apache restart in here right now and get it
# tantek well it seemed to "work" in that phpinfo on local dev now says: Loaded Configuration File /private/etc/php.ini
# PMurphs yeah buddy
# KartikPrabhu tantek: apache2/bin/restart is what I do
# KartikPrabhu this is from command line
# tantek and hey - that resolved the /PHP#session_start_failed on my local dev setup!
# ben_thatmustbeme yay
# KartikPrabhu hmm oh no this is Linux... I thought OSX being Unix-based would be same
# ben_thatmustbeme tantek, i've found it always works best to play the fool and just post the exact error message and say its not working.
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# ben_thatmustbeme tantek, to be fair, I have been dealing with these kinds of issues for many years.
# ben_thatmustbeme agreed. sadly these types of things are all over the place. it could really use some re-imagining in places
# ben_thatmustbeme indeed. I'm quite excited by those projects
# ben_thatmustbeme as well as the idea of indiestore
# ben_thatmustbeme I can't wait to toss ideas around at IWC Cambridge
# ShaneHudson Wow, Justin.tv has shut down
# kylewm I'd like to make a /Camlistore stub but don't understand it well enough to write a succinct definition, halp?
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# 
@RiverVanRain Drawing a line from @elgg to @withknown: an adventure in #edtech and #indieweb... via http://geti2p.net/en/ (twitter.com/_/status/496739992811872256)
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gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+20) "/* Upcoming */ Fotopedia announcement date/closing date, sorting" (view diff)
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# gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+132) "mv Readmill to 2014. Update close date on Svpply, sorting" (view diff)
# gRegor` tantek: Oops on Minneapolis. I probably copied an early version before it was added. I'll be careful to add it in the future. Does anyone from the MN group edit the wiki? It would be good to get their eyes on the event pages.
# gRegor` Cool
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# tantek I think I fixed /events/2014-08-13-hwc
# tantek gRegor` if you could fix / update /events/2014-08-27-hwc I'd appreciate it!
# gRegor` Doesn't exist yet
# gRegor` But I'll include it when I set it up, if someone doesn't beat me to it. :)
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# gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+44) "/* Upcoming */ Very Goods Kickstarter successfully funded 2014-07-21" (view diff)
# gRegor` tantek: Are these new shorter HWC links the preferred default?
# gRegor` Or should we redirect them to the longer URL?
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# 
@xtof_fr Algie vasculaire, #humeur et douleurs. H.S. et e, vacances jusqu’au 2014-08-18 Joignable via #webmention ou SMS. http://christopheducamp.com/2014-218/ (twitter.com/_/status/496755194508881921)
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# 
Jeena I was thinking about it, this would not have happened if she didn't use Instagram but her own website to publish http://findanewequation.tumblr.com/post/91685275467/so-for-the-last-four-months-or-so-i-have-taken (and yeah tumblr could have just reacted the same shitty way, it is just random that they didn't I assume)
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# 
@kevinmarks the web as a giant wiki by @Brent_Thoma http://brentthoma.mededlife.org/the-fall-of-the-wiki/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/496770215259029504)
# 
@Brent_Thoma RT @kevinmarks: the web as a giant wiki by @Brent_Thoma http://brentthoma.mededlife.org/the-fall-of-the-wiki/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/496770697998241792)
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# @kevinmarks @OhMeadhbh like https://indieauth.com/ ? Or am I missing something? (twitter.com/_/status/496774904398622720)
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# 
@MogulAzam RT @kevinmarks: the web as a giant wiki by @Brent_Thoma http://brentthoma.mededlife.org/the-fall-of-the-wiki/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/496777612258054144)
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# caseorganic.com edited /site-deaths (+1593) "/* 2014 */ Added Justin.tv site shutdown" (view diff)
# caseorganic.com edited /site-deaths (+233) "/* 2014 */ Added Archive.org saving of Justin.tv videos" (view diff)
Jihaisse, caseorganic, simsketch, brianloveswords and Acidnerd joined the channel
# gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (-30) "/* 2014 */ Merged duplicate Justin.tv segments" (view diff)
barnabywalters, lukebrooker, tantek, chrissaad, caseorganic, simsketch, johncash, himannylopez, KartikPrabhu, himannyl_ and KevinMarks joined the channel