#indiewebcamp 2014-08-07

2014-08-07 UTC
caseorganic, KartikPrabhu, KevinMarks, KevinMarks2, kylewm, paulcp_, snarfed and himannylopez joined the channel
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ngoldman
bret: awesome!
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gregorlove.com
edited /events/2014-08-13-homebrew-website-club (+10) "/* URLs */ Chicago FB link"
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GWG_
Hmmm...
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voxpelli
Another reason to avoid silos – even if they use open tech like RSS they can still block certain clients from fetching it – like Tumblr has done with Bloglovin: http://www.bloglovin.com/tumblr-update
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cweiske
I can do that with your reader, too
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voxpelli
cweiske: sure you can, but only you, not some other company doing it in one sweep for you and thousands of others
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kodfabrik.se
edited /static-site (+79) "Added link to the web hosting static domain section (which should likely be partly moved here eventually)"
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kodfabrik.se
edited /static-site (+0) "Fixed link"
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kodfabrik.se
edited /Tumblr (+135) "/* Criticisms */ Added Tumblr's blocking of Bloglovin"
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@ShaneHudson
@craftcms sorry to bug you again but does craft have commenting? I would need to add pingbacks/webmentions
(twitter.com/_/status/497305285028216832)
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@hpk42
@bastianallgeier or just host a rhodecode or gitlab instance yourself? #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/497328222208798721)
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@fmorfin
A revisar esto... "Drawing a line from @elgg to @withknown: an adventure in #edtech and #indieweb" #aprendered http://werd.io/2014/drawing-a-line-from-elgg-to-withknown-an-adventure-in
(twitter.com/_/status/497357048934572032)
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@itknowingness
RT @fmorfin: A revisar esto... "Drawing a line from @elgg to @withknown: an adventure in #edtech and #indieweb" #aprendered http://t.co/1lM…
(twitter.com/_/status/497357052537098242)
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@Ed_Tech_
RT @fmorfin: A revisar esto... "Drawing a line from @elgg to @withknown: an adventure in #edtech and #indieweb" #aprendered http://t.co/1lM…
(twitter.com/_/status/497358426482413568)
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KartikPrabhu
anyone does POSSE to Tumblr?
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techlifeweb
WordPress users... anyone know if there's a plugin for POSSE that will do the posting based on a tag? That would let me set up autoposting but it would only do it when I wanted.
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KartikPrabhu
techlifeweb: publicize does this: http://jetpack.me/support/publicize/ you have to select from the options from each post though not through a tag
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ShaneHudson
There is one that lets you do it per individual post but not based on tag
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ShaneHudson
oops, first one was my fork lol
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techlifeweb
KartikPrabhu: thanks. Yes I'm using that now. Main reason I don't like that is that it is either always on or always off (if you edit your functions). And you cant change it from Press This or a client like Android
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KartikPrabhu
techlifeweb: I thought for each post it gave you option to choose which network to POSSE to
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techlifeweb
KartikPrabhu: yes it does but really only if you are posting from within wordpress.
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techlifeweb
ShaneHudson: thanks, I'll take a look at that.
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KartikPrabhu
oh hmm. maybe wordpress does not expose plugin to clients like Press This etc...
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techlifeweb
That's how it appears.
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ben_thatmustbeme
i'll try it anyway
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ben_thatmustbeme
okay, hi from my laptop
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ben_thatmustbeme
lets see if this stays connected
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ben_thatmustbeme
oops, wrong room
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ben_thatmustbeme
!tell aaronpk is ownyourgram.com supposed to be sending anything other than photos. Admittedly my micropub functionality isn't complete but I have gotten 3 different posts of non-images which ends up broken. I'm logging all the output now to see if/when it happens again and what its sending.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com
edited /Tumblr (+105) "push toc down, subheads for criticisms"
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tantek.com
created /Bloglovin (+143) "stub with dfn"
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tantek.com
edited /feed_reader (+45) "Examples: Bloglovin"
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tantek.com
edited /email (+96) "linky, email list"
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kylewm
how would one receive the callbacks in an indieauth command line client? do you have to run a little localhost server?
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Jeena
there is a indieauth command line client?
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kylewm
Jeena: no, not yet, wondering how you'd write one
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Jeena
you could print the url which the user would need to open in a browser and then later wait for a string to input with the callback arguments
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jonnybarnes
hey, barnabywalters there?
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barnabywalters
jonnybarnes: yup, fire away
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barnabywalters
generally if I am online and not marked as away I am “here”, or at least will see messages eventually :)
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jonnybarnes
so git does allow for gpg2, you just need to run `git config --global gpg.program 'gpg2'`
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jonnybarnes
then the command ` git tag -v vTAG` will work as expected
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jonnybarnes
or if theres a program called pgp maybe then you'd set that in the config
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kylewm
Jeena: thanks, that's not a bad idea at all!
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barnabywalters
oh cool, that’s useful to know! I’ll add that to the readme
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techlifeweb
regarding my earlier post (http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-08-07#t1407419046) Just occurred to me I could cobble something together with IFTTT and an RSS feed from my tags.
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jonnybarnes
barnabywalters: it was the response I got with the homebrew issue I opened
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jonnybarnes
barnabywalters: looks good
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ben_thatmustbeme
kylewm as far as indieauth via CLI, i'd just try to do the GPG version. that should be pretty scriptable
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barnabywalters
switching locations, bbiab
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jonnybarnes
is it acceptable to put info on the wiki and hope someone else makes the prose flow nicely?
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voxpelli
kylewm: some API:s allow for non-web based flows where you input your username and passwords to confirm identity, could be used in CLI
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kylewm
voxpelli: i've done that with e.g. twitter, but i don't think indieauth supports such a flow
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voxpelli
kylewm: indieauth is just a relmeauth implementation that does a relme-lookup + twitterauth so all you lack then is a relme-lookup?
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jonnybarnes.uk
edited /https (+153) "/* Why */ https imporves Google rank"
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kylewm
voxpelli: i should be saying indieauth.com specifically, not just indieauth in general
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jonnybarnes
anyone know the correct way to redirect a domain? I have jonnybarnes.net, but have now started using jonnybarnes.uk
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jonnybarnes
what the best way to redirect jonnybarnes.net links to the new domain?
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jonnybarnes
a 302 redirect?
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kylewm
jonnybarnes: a DNS CNAME record I beleive
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voxpelli
jonnybarnes: 301 as it is a permanent move
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lewiscowper
Is there a way to do POSSE to twitter without using PHP. Wanting to keep the site as simple as possible, ideally doing it in JS or NodeJS. Any modules/things to look out for?
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jonnybarnes
kylewm voxpelli: so set a CNAME in my DNS and set my nginx config todo a 301 redirect should get everything working correctly?
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voxpelli
kylewm: why the need to support IndieAuth in a CLI? Lets not make IndieAuth.com a new centralized service, if you can do the relme and twitter auth yourself, then why not?
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voxpelli
jonnybarnes: I don't think a CNAME is what you want, depends on how you want to send 301:s from the old domain
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kylewm
voxpelli: definitely don't want to centralize/require indieauth.com, trying to write a command line (actually emacs lisp) micropub client. so i have to use whatever authorization_endpoint the user gives me. mine happens to be indieauth.com
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snarfed
morning indiewebcamp!
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snarfed
kylewm++
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Loqi
kylewm has 37 karma
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Loqi
cli has 2 karma
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snarfed
emacs++
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Loqi
emacs has 1 karma
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Loqi
emacs has 0 karma
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kylewm
emacs has one karma??!
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snarfed
wow, ok then
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ShaneHudson
Lol hi :)
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kylewm
lewiscowper: stupid simple option is to pre-populate "post to twitter" links, then you just have to click it to possse https://dev.twitter.com/docs/intents
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voxpelli
kylewm: oh, haven't looked into rel-authorization_endpoint, not sure I really understand its use case, will have to read up
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lewiscowper
kylewm: Ideally what I want is to write a post to my Notes section, and have it with it's own permalink and then send that to twitter. Having a Twitter box on my site seems to go against what I want as regards to silos and stuff.
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snarfed
lewiscowper: if you don't tweet a lot, consider posseing manually to start, ie literally copy and paste into twitter's web ui
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kylewm
jonnybarnes: definitely take voxpelli's word over mine w/r/t CNAME
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snarfed
for me, doing things manually for a while first has been a great way to learn what i actually care about (and don't)
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snarfed
lewiscowper: then, once you're ready to automate, if your site can send webmentions, kylewm and i have a bridge to sell you. :P https://www.brid.gy/about#publish
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voxpelli
jonnybarnes: ideally your DNS-company provides an option for redirecting one domain to another and takes care of all 301:s
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jonnybarnes
voxpelli: will have to look into that, currently my email host fastmail.fm handles my DNS
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voxpelli
jonnybarnes: there's a "redirection" section on https://www.fastmail.fm/help/receive/dns.html – seems like the non-cloaked alternative there could be it
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aaronpk
goood morning
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Loqi
aaronpk: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 2 hours, 14 minutes ago: is ownyourgram.com supposed to be sending anything other than photos. Admittedly my micropub functionality isn't complete but I have gotten 3 different posts of non-images which ends up broken. I'm logging all the output now to see if/when it happens again and what its sending.
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aaronpk
it should only be sending photos! I wonder what's up
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@morningJewshow
Todays #FF is one of the people I learn the most from on the web @patrickrhone  . An incredibly good web citizen and inspiration. #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/497427316780584961)
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aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: I'm not actually logging much at all with ownyourgram so I can't actually look at past requests it's made
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jonnybarnes
voxpelli: that only seems to work if I'm hosting my site with fastmail themselves
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voxpelli
jonnybarnes: it mentions it under a section regarding websites hosted outside of fastmail? well – alternative would be to point it to the same server and on the server make some check of domain name and if not the new domain name, then redirect it to the right place – in .htaccess or similar
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jonnybarnes
voxpelli: at the monent both .net an .uk are pointed at my VPS, and my nginx config currently "points" them to the same php file
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jonnybarnes
voxpelli: so currently going to either domain results in exactly the same content being returned
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snarfed.org
edited /webmention (+498) "/* Brainstorming */ retry logic"
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tantek.com
created /email_list (+5899) "stub with dfn, IndieWeb Examples, POSSE and Bridgy brainstorming"
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tantek.com
edited /email (+465) "note POSSE use case, add npdoty to examples"
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tantek.com
created /User:Npdoty.name (+59) "stub with an h-card"
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tantek.com
created /Template:npdoty (+103) "making it since I used it"
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jgarber
@ShaneHudson Replying to your question about Craft and webmentions – I put this plugin together a while back that might be of some use (or as a starting point for something else): http://sixtwothree.org/blog/sending-webmentions-with-craft
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk I am just going to be writing out the entire POST data so hopefully we'll see whats up
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aaronpk
this is php, right? so also make sure you look at what's in $_FILES
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ben_thatmustbeme
it has only happened in the middle of the night (1-3am Eastern)
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aaronpk
ha weird
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aaronpk
you sure it's coming from my server?
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jgarber
Question for everyone: How are you storing the microformat data of an h-entry you've pulled from someone else's post that has linked to your post? (e.g. a single column in a db with a hash of the parsed h-entry, many columns mapped to h-entry properties, etc.)
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aaronpk
jgarber: I store the JSON version in a file on disk
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aaronpk
filename is the URL
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jgarber
aaronpk: Very cool, thanks!
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ben_thatmustbeme
it should be the only server that has micropub access and I am only using micropub for instagram photos thus far. but I'll try and nail it down.
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aaronpk
I guess I mean maybe you're getting random POST requests?
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jgarber
aaronpk: Whenever you want to display a reply context or comment, the app opens the right file and parses the JSON?
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aaronpk
I have code that renders a comment given the JSON version of an h-entry
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ben_thatmustbeme
it should only be getting that far if it is successfully authed. But I'll test that to be sure
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tantek.com
edited /email_list (+356) "/* IndieWeb thoughts */ link back to github issue for Bridgy feature requests to support POSSE to email (lists) and receiving webmentions for replies on those lists"
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tantek.com
edited /email_list (+1) "/* = Bridgy POSSE to email */ ="
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tantek.com
edited /email_list (+16) "see also messaging"
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jonnybarnes
jgarber aaronpk given a webmention I curently save the raw HTML to file and parse out the relavent data to an array, serialize the array and put that in a db
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk, scratch all that, found the error was in my unfinished micropub code. you were right, random posts that happened to have enough to get past some of the checks, and then actually testing the auth wasn't there
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ben_thatmustbeme
thats the problem with putting stuff down for 2 months
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aaronpk
heh cool
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jonnybarnes
that way if I imporve my parsing algo I can go over the saved HTML
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jgarber
jonnybarnes: What are you using to do the parsing? (php, ruby gem, remote service like http://news.indiewebcamp.com/parse )
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aaronpk
yep that's the same reason I store the raw HTML
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aaronpk
jgarber: wow how'd you find that indienews URL?
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jonnybarnes
currently extracting the code into its own library
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aaronpk
ha nice
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aaronpk
yeah I was using that cause the Ruby parser wasn't finished yet
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jonnybarnes
the next thing on the todo list is given an h-entry where the h-card is actually a refrence (i.e. the h-card is on the homepage) go and grab the homepage and get the relavent author info
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jonnybarnes
aaronpk: when I goto a note on your site, how does p3k know there are JSON replies to render?
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aaronpk
ah good question
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jonnybarnes
as I'm saving my replies in the db I can just make a select query
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aaronpk
I have a "mentions" folder and a file for each of my posts in a similar folder structure as how I store external content
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aaronpk
each file is a yml file which stores the source and target URLs for each mention
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tantek.com
edited /design (+524) "Incremental is ok, often good"
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aaronpk
that's my "database"
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jonnybarnes
is there like an "official" spec for YAML?
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aaronpk
yeah yaml is well defined
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aaronpk
it's just a serialization format
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aaronpk
the reason I use it for this is because you can append items to an array by just appending to the file, you don't need to parse it to add things
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aaronpk
so when I get a new webmention I can just append a block of 4 lines to the file without needing to read the file at all
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jgarber
aaronpk: And you're determining the "type" there by checking the URL from brid.gy?
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aaronpk
no that's actually because the webmention processing code looks at the microformats
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jgarber
Ah, right. Gotcha.
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jgarber
h-as-like, p-comment, etc.?
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jgarber
And if the h-entry doesn't have either of those properties (say it's just an h-entry that includes a mention to your URL), do you infer it's a reply?
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aaronpk
no, default is a "reference"
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tantek.com
edited /PHP (+320) "/* session start failed */ should also provide additional error handling"
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jgarber
Interesting, okay. Do you display replies and references differently on your site?
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aaronpk
yeah right now I'm showing generic (unknown) references as just the URL. not totally sure i'm happy with it yet tho.
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jgarber
Seems reasonable. Determining what to show from the full text of an h-entry that references your post could be dicey. You could show x characters before/after the mention, but that's out of context. Showing the entire post could be lengthy and distracting, etc. etc.
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tantek.com
edited /PHP (+176) "/* session start failed */ provide option and citation for how to do even more work if you're into that sort of thing (or maybe security something something)"
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tantek.com
created /principals (+24) "likely a typo"
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aaronpk
yeah exactly. cause it could be anything, like a super long blog post, or something short
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aaronpk
and we already made the mistake of trying to find the "relevant" excerpt of the text to show with pingback display
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jgarber
Thanks for talking through all this. I've got a much better idea of how to store and display mentions.
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kylewm
jgarber, just to be clear, you shouldn't be using h-as-like to determine whether it's a like
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kylewm
a like is an h-entry with a "like-of" property
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jgarber
Ah, okay. I see `u-like-of` now in a sample brid.gy page. Thanks for the clarification!
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kylewm
sure!
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /OpenBlog (-34) "/* Current Features */"
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shanehudson.net
edited /2014/UK/Guest_List (+279) "/* Creators */"
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KevinMarks
At Technorati we grabbed 256 chars either side of the link and then trimmed at word boundaries. We tried stopping at sentence boundaries but that looked too complete and people didn't like through to read the whole post (which was what the bloggers wanted from us)
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KevinMarks
s/like/click/
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Loqi
KevinMarks meant to say: At Technorati we grabbed 256 chars either side of the link and then trimmed at word boundaries. We tried stopping at sentence boundaries but that looked too complete and people didn't click through to read the whole post (which was what the bloggers wanted from us)
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ben_thatmustbeme
yay, micropub posting is working for notes now too
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ben_thatmustbeme
need to work on a micropub phone app
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lewiscowper
snarfed: Thanks, I'll look out for that when I have more stuff written on my website. :)
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tantek.com
edited /PHP (+1506) "/* session start failed */ add local dev setup troubleshooting"
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tantek.com
edited /PHP (+32) "/* session start failed */ outdent"
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kylewm
ben_thatmustbeme: android or ios?
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ben_thatmustbeme
i use android, would be nice
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ben_thatmustbeme
but ideally we should have one for each
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tantek.com
edited /PHP (+525) "/* Troubleshooting */ documentation reflects actual real world trouble shooting and solution, please only edit if you have real world firsthand experience to add, not just might or should be"
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tantek.com
edited /PHP (-2) "/* session start failed */ outdent"
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aaronpk
or multiple for each :)
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kylewm
snarfed: tantek: is there anything bridgy-specific in the POSSE-to-email proposal?
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ben_thatmustbeme
wonder if we could wrap quill up in like phonegap easily
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ben_thatmustbeme
would be a very simple way about it
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aaronpk
hm possibly
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aaronpk
not a lot of advantage of doing that over just bookmarking it to your home screen tho
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aaronpk
advantages of native apps are things like better offline support (write a post offline, sync it up later) like how the wordpress app does it
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tantek
kylewm: no. the POSSE to email section I wrote as what your server could do itself: http://indiewebcamp.com/email_list#POSSE_to_an_email_list
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ben_thatmustbeme
so, quill with using some local storage for offline times,
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ben_thatmustbeme
basically i use ownyourgram for just this type of thing, post photos to my site, I could care less about instagram
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tantek
you could use cookies for some minimal offline storage
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tantek
without having to make it a native app
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ben_thatmustbeme
html5 local storage
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tantek
after all, the cookies store your session login info when you're "offline" and return
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aaronpk
i'm suspicious of being able to actually create a web app that works well offline
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aaronpk
not that it can't be done, i have just never seen it done before
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tantek
right, and use local storage when it grows beyond what makes sense for a cookie
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tantek
aaronpk - hence I gave example
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tantek
most websites do a good job of "offline" with your login session
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aaronpk
i'm talking about being able to use the app with no network connection
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ben_thatmustbeme
well, it would still need to be wrapped up in some actual app, i want to be able to actually start the app when offline
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tantek
aaronpk - that's harder and needs a manifest yes
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ben_thatmustbeme
again, i think this is all quite doable though
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tantek
Apple did have *a lot* this working through WebAPIs back in 2007
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tantek
since there was no native iOS
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tantek
all you could do were launchable webapps
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tantek
you could use those without a network connection
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tantek
so there *is* proof of concept, it's just 7 years old now
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tantek
(no native *aps on iOS)
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tantek
s/aps/apps
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: (no native *apps on iOS)
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tantek
that being said, I think aaronpk's challenge is a good one
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tantek
now that we understand how to enable our sites to be added to the user's home screen with their own /icon
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tantek
next would be some form of minimal offline support, where at least your home page was cached somehow on the user's machine
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tantek
aside: pretty sure I've now written up everything I had to do to fix the PHP session_start errors I was seeing on my webhost and on my local dev machine:
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kylewm
tantek: sorry being unspecific, i meant is there anything bridgy in any of the entire "to and from email" propsal. is there any way in which bridgy is better suited to do it than some new service?
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tantek
for anyone interested in posting "email" on your own site first and then POSSEing it to actual mailing lists
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kylewm
bridgy-specific*
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tantek
kylewm: yes - bridgy already has a structure for creating permalink stubs with microformats that provide the info that webmention consumers want
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tantek
that's on the backfeed side
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tantek
and on the POSSE side, Bridgy Publish also has a UI and user flow already for entering in a post permalink that you want POSSEd to another destination
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tantek
feel free to add any of those comments to the GH issue if that's helpful
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kylewm
gotcha
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@cayenne2
RT @hpk42: @bastianallgeier or just host a rhodecode or gitlab instance yourself? #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/497465622138060800)
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KevinMarks
Pay per emotion.
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ben_thatmustbeme
excellent. finally getting to my todo list of things to add to my site
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ben_thatmustbeme
just got fragmention on there
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tantek
suggests https://indiewebcamp.com/offline as a place to capture today's offline wishes and thoughts
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme, aaronpk ^^^
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: awesome with adding fragmention support to your site!
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aaronpk
heh, /mobile already links to /offline
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ben_thatmustbeme
i just need to get on to every one of these lists like this, haha
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /fragmention (+118) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
(view diff)
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JonathanNeal
woot ben_thatmustbeme !
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Loqi
giggles
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KartikPrabhu
"Create an identity layer for the Internet" :P
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KartikPrabhu
anyone here applying?
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: perhaps ping jeremyzilar about that
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tantek
my understanding is that it is mostly driven by NYT and WaPo
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KartikPrabhu
eh I'm not planning to apply, just wondering
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tantek
Mozilla is just "helping out"
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KartikPrabhu
yeah i got that impression at IWC
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@techlifeweb
Love it when webmentions start flowing in and confirm you have things set up correctly. Geektastic!… http://techlifeweb.com/social/?name=41
(twitter.com/_/status/497509825366880256)
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tantek
right, wonder away KartikPrabhu, and definitely ask more questions, here, on your blog, and cc Jeremy Zilar
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tantek
and lol at "Create an identity layer for the Internet" - good luck with that - not like lots of people haven't been trying for years
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tantek
!tell barnabywalters perhaps consider applying to this: http://opennews.org/fellowships/apply.html - background: http://open.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/08/07/build-an-open-source-community-platform-with-new-york-times-washington-post-and-mozilla bet you could get paid to teach them a few things. ;)
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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@kevinmarks
"@_jden: wanted: simple static file hosting on my own domain with my own ssl cert. willing to pay maybe $10 a month" #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/497513762065117184)
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@xtof_fr
@pierreozoux désolé d'avoir répondu si tard á ta PR. Tête bien farcie ces temps-ci. Dans ma roadmap #Indieweb, reprise étude de #git !
(twitter.com/_/status/497528204782235648)
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gRegor`
Re: more interesting from the NYT ^: http://grahamcluley.com/2014/08/cybervor-pay/
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gRegor`
Quoted from twitter: “We will never ask for your password. Please enter your password” says firm that revealed "billion password" breach