#indiewebcamp 2014-08-20

2014-08-20 UTC
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kylewm snarfed said at HWC that Google Analytics has worked async for years
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rascul piwik can async http://developer.piwik.org/api-reference/tracking-javascript
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kylewm but i don't use it personally either
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rascul i don't use any analytics
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rascul only goaccess for a few stats from logs
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KartikPrabhu tantek: what is a real world example that will satisfy you?
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tantek KartikPrabhu: exactly what you claim
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tantek a site that is loading an analytics script asynchronously
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KartikPrabhu aah ok
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tantek "URLs to real world examples doing this"
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tantek with which provider etc.
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ShaneHudson I think all of the major analytics are async now, was causing too many problems without it
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rascul piwik.org uses piwik async
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tantek ShaneHudson: perhaps you could point to "how to" documentation for how to support "all of the major analytics" as async
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KartikPrabhu tantek: does this help: http://googlecode.blogspot.com/2009/12/google-analytics-launches-asynchronous.html ?
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ShaneHudson https://developers.google.com/analytics/devguides/collection/gajs/asyncMigrationExamples#migrationInstructions
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KartikPrabhu from 2009! :P It seems most people just copy-paste analytics code without thinking about async loading
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tantek sure - go ahead and add that to the wiki page - and any sites that are actually using that JS snippet
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KevinMarks Chartbeat is async https://chartbeat.com/docs/adding_the_code/
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KartikPrabhu is not sure how to find sites using a particulat JS snippet
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kylewm both sites under the Google Analytics heading set async=true
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KartikPrabhu ok good :)
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KartikPrabhu my point only was that the "waiting" problem has nothing to do with analytics and is a problem of loading huge scripts without async
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kylewm.com edited /website-analytics (+18) "/* Criticism */ added Tracking heading, in separate transaction to avoid conflicts" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu scripts/fonts/css etc...
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tantek KartikPrabhu: no it's different problems
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tantek from the user perspective
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tantek analytics scripts = frozen / dead site
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tantek external fonts = blank or just horizontal lines where text should be
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KartikPrabhu why? how does is matter to the user if an analytics script is getting stuck or a font is not loading from the Google CDN showing a blank page
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tantek external CSS = brief (sometimes many seconds) 1990s styling
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shanehudson.net edited /website-analytics (+287) "/* Makes Your Site Slower */" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu ok what about any other JS?
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tantek KartikPrabhu: because users don't notice the plumbing problem - they notice the UX problem
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KartikPrabhu yeah... and it is the same whether it is an analytics script or some other script
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tantek name another scenario and we can come up with the user-problem that is visible
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KartikPrabhu the page is stuck
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tantek not sure why analytics scripts seem particularly bad
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KartikPrabhu because they load from some thirdparty CDN which might be slow at that moment and they are probably big in size (this is a guess)
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KartikPrabhu same with sites using a hige amount of Google fonts... the page is blank for a long time sometimes
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KartikPrabhu huge*
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tantek.com edited /website-analytics (-123) "/* Makes Your Site Slower */ yay documentation." (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /website-analytics (+297) "/* Tracking */ added my reason for not using Google Analytics" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /website-analytics (+2) "easier linkable frag section" (view diff)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: indeed - and also why I avoid external downloadable webfonts
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KartikPrabhu I use them for things... have to look into "async" them in some way
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kylewm.com edited /website-analytics (+135) "/* Makes Your Site Slower */" (view diff)
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ShaneHudson I avoid external webfonts for lots of reasons. Shame though as I really like Typekit's range of fonts
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ShaneHudson On the SuccessCircuit redesign I've given up altogether and gone with Georgia and Helvetica
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tantek I'll be sure to document next time I see site(s) that stall on google analytics
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tantek.com edited /website-analytics (-146) "/* Makes Your Site Slower */ yay real world async google analytics examples" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /website-analytics (+608) "added OWA and Log Analyzers section" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu likes that he can say reasonable sounding things and people here will call him out and back him up with evidence :P
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kylewm.com edited /website-analytics (+30) "/* Piwik */ add note that benwerd is not using piwik anymore" (view diff)
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ShaneHudson The biggest problem for websites stalling used to be facebook like button!
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KartikPrabhu yup^
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KartikPrabhu again not loading async :P
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kylewm does anybody support an optional 'callback' parameter in webmentions? á la http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention#Asynchronous_status_notification
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benwerd not yet, but I like that
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kylewm.com edited /webmention (+293) "/* Asynchronous status polling */ my preference for visible a rel="status"" (view diff)
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benwerd Oh. My. God.
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benwerd So here's a thing.
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benwerd PHP's cURL implementation sends an Expect: 100-continue header when you use it to send a POST call over a certain size.
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benwerd Squid, ever the diligent proxy, looks for well-formed requests, and will throw a 417 error if it gets that header but the call is malformed.
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benwerd cURL malforms the call (or extra behavior is required and documented, but I haven't seen anything yet).
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benwerd The widely accepted cure is to tell cURL to send an empty "Expect:" header.
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benwerd Squid also has a "ignore_expect_100 on" setting specifically for this circumstance, but it's not set by default.
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benwerd This is why my site hasn't been able to work with micropub apps, ever.
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@kevinmarks @evanatmedium @Medium you should do webmentions and fragmentions #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/501940232824946688)
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KevinMarks Wow Ben, that's very annoying
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KartikPrabhu benwerd: so your Squid rejects long posts from micropub apps?
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benwerd It did
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benwerd And I couldn't work out why
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benwerd It turns out that if the sites were written in PHP and used cURL ...
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KartikPrabhu that is a hard bug/issue to track down!
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benwerd It has caused some .. issues for me this week ;)
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KartikPrabhu benwerd: so it works if you try small notes but not long articles?
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KevinMarks That sounds like one to patch on both ends
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benwerd KartikPrabhu: well, the threshold is 1024 characters
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KartikPrabhu if anyone wants to chime in: https://twitter.com/craigmod/status/501924059936854016
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@craigmod What are the best articles / posts you've read about 'indie web'? /cc @adactio @t (twitter.com/_/status/501924059936854016)
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KartikPrabhu benwerd: 1024 is not a lot! annoying
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benwerd No.
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benwerd weeps
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tantek @craigmod see /posts_about
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I suppose craigmod wants a recommended list by people :)
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tantek aaronpk, what would you think of Loqi POSSEing @-replies from here in the channel to @indiewebcamp ?
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KartikPrabhu I could reply but I am biased and tempted to toot my own horn/article :P
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kylewm who is craigmod?
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: he is a author/book designer who does very cool stuff: http://craigmod.com/ though he has started posting exclusively on Mediun now a days :(
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Loqi it'll be ok
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KartikPrabhu particularly my marginalia interest was inspired by his article: http://craigmod.com/journal/post_artifact/ which is just beautifully written
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kylewm ohhh that's why the name was familiar
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@kartik_prabhu @craigmod If I may… I wrote a non-technical one: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/indieweb-love-blog (twitter.com/_/status/501943553354776577)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: also you might want to redirect /posts_about to /posts_about_the_indieweb
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tantek oops thought I did
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tantek.com created /posts_about (+38) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /@t (+29) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /@tantek (+29) "r" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks @craigmod @adactio @t best of all is the irc http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC but you may like @kartik_prabhu's Marginalia: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia (twitter.com/_/status/501945585155317760)
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tantek or heck, point him to /irc/today and watch him amaze at the live updates
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tantek.com created /@craigmod (+31) "r for when he signs in" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu aah pooo now 2 of my posts have been pimped in reply to the same tweet!
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tantek KartikPrabhu: both well deserved!
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KartikPrabhu maybe... but variety is the spice of life ;)
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KartikPrabhu also sort of awkward because I did tweet at him about marginalia before :P
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benwerd slightly mispointed the error - as well as cURL PHP being broken, Squid versions under 3.2 also don't support the Expect: 100-continue header at all.
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@kevinmarks @0xdeadbabe @puellavulnerata @twitter @grimmelm @zooko the web is always there waiting for you #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/501947874104446976)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/501945585155317760/11628 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/501945585155317760/1123547581 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/501945585155317760/1835951 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC (webmention)
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tantek well, looks like Twitter's reader model is jumping a shark: http://qz.com/252192/twitter-now-officially-says-your-timeline-is-more-than-just-tweets-from-people-you-follow/
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tantek tweets that your followings have favorited may show up in your reading stream
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tommorris on the twitter front, I had a strange realisation the other day that one of the great benefits of my RSS reader was that it didn't have Twitter ads in the stream.
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KartikPrabhu expanding the twitter social graph!
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Loqi [mention] https://kylewm.com/reply/2014/08/20/2/agreed-although-part-of-the-problem linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/share (webmention)
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@kyle_wm @erinjo Agreed, although part of the problem is how broad the definition of “share” is. @t has http://indiewebcamp.com/share ;) (twitter.com/_/status/501964977746358272)
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kylewm oh, meanwhile twitter just poppped up a reply notification in the bottom right of my browser
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kylewm good UX to offset the bad stream choices
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tommorris I'm trying to log into Beatport to download some music. Most convoluted login flow ever.
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: the notification pop-up has been there for quite someitme
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/kyle_wm/501964977746358272/501967498401415168 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/share (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/kyle_wm/501964977746358272/501968494271807488 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/share (webmention)
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kylewm I like it a lot, need to get some notification UI going on my site
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/kyle_wm/501964977746358272/501969333539463168 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/share (webmention)
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KevinMarks_ web notifications of replies in the irc page would be nice
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tantek.com edited /share (+13) "share apparently also means repost in some contexts, e.g. G+, Actviity Steams" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /share (+31) "/* See Also */ reposts, web actions" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kyle_wm/501964977746358272/11628 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/share (webmention)
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notenoughneon.com edited /projects (+306) "/* experimental */ add neonblog to projects" (view diff)
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notenoughneon.com created /Neonblog (+1845) "Created page with "Neonblog is an indieweb microblog developed by [[User:notenoughneon.com|Emma Kuo]] and running on [http://notenoughneon.com notenoughneon.com]. It features a minimalist UI and us..."" (view diff)
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mko !tell kylewm I figured out what was causing passport-indieauth to fail with your domain. When filtered for h-card only, you don't have a h-card that contains a rel=me on your homepage. The current code (that I'm replacing now) used matching of rel=me and h-card url values to correlate the site owner's h-card.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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notenoughneon.com created /User:Notenoughneon.com (+153) "Created page with "[http://notenoughneon.com Emma Kuo] is a software developer in Portland, OR. == Projects == * [[Neonblog]] * Adding photo support to [[Bridgy]] publish"" (view diff)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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mko Welcome, indie-visitor.
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mko And goodbye indie-visitor.
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@npm_tweets passport-indieauth 0.0.4 https://www.npmjs.org/package/passport-indieauth IndieAuth authentication strategy for Passport. (twitter.com/_/status/501991405464866816)
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emmak anyone know how I can upload images to the wiki?
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mko Like hosted on the wiki?
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emmak yes
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mko http://indiewebcamp.com/Special:Upload
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KartikPrabhu emmak: there is a upload file link at the bottom
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mko Then link the file
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emmak mko: KartikPrabhu: thanks!
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KartikPrabhu also only upload image if they are CC0 else embed them from external URL
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mko np emmak
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notenoughneon.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:neonblog-post-ui.png]]""
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notenoughneon.com edited /Neonblog (+50) "add screenshot" (view diff)
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@notenoughneon Adding neonblog documentation on http://indiewebcamp.com (http://notenoughneon.com/2014/8/20/1) (twitter.com/_/status/501996174153236480)
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KartikPrabhu emmak: nice looking post UI
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mko emmak: Your autolinker mis-linked indiewebcamp.com as a relative link.
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emmak mko: yeah :(
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mko :-(
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mko But I'll echo KartikPrabhu: nice Post UI. :-)
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emmak thanks!
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/501945585155317760/738853 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC (webmention)
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@kevinmarks @evanatmedium @alexismadrigal @cdixon @jayrosen_nyu @fraying easy with mediums funding, hard to get paid as independent #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/502003314637017088)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/BarnabyWalters/501767991961587713/502006611893039104 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress (webmention)
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@adactio @craigmod @t I’ve gathered some together here: http://adactio.com/links/tags/indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/502013377003393024)
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mowens.com created /Indie.js (+10503) "/* Indie.js documentation, initial version */" (view diff)
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mko What is Indie.js?
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Loqi Indie.js is an open-source IndieWeb project that was officially started on July 18th, 2014 but has powered mowens.com since July 8th, 2014 http://indiewebcamp.com/Indie.js
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ShaneHudson Looks good
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mko Thanks
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ShaneHudson I need to do a write up about Craft CMS... really enjoying it
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mowens.com edited /projects (+357) "/* Added Indie.js to Experimental for now */" (view diff)
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mko Hm. Craft CMS looks solid. Is it intended to be IndieWeb-compatible or does it just happen to be?
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ShaneHudson It is just a CMS but it fits in well with what I want so I'm adding indieweb features to it. There is already one for sending webmentions, so going to make one for recieving hopefully this wek
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ShaneHudson *week
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mowens.com uploaded /File:indiejs-v1-feed-narrow.png "Indie.js h-feed implementation"
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mowens.com uploaded /File:indiejs-v1-feed-wide.png "Indie.js h-feed implementation"
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mowens.com uploaded /File:indiejs-v1-h-as-article.png "Indie.js h-as-article v1 implementation"
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mowens.com uploaded /File:indiejs-v1-h-as-photo.png "Indie.js h-as-photo v1 implementation"
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mowens.com uploaded /File:indiejs-v1-h-as-reply.png "Indie.js h-as-reply v1 implementation"
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mowens.com uploaded /File:indiejs-v1-posting-article.png "Indie.js Posting Interface (Article entry type) v1 implementation (Wide screen view)"
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mowens.com uploaded /File:indiejs-v1-posting-note.png "Indie.js Posting Interface (Note entry type) v1 implementation (Wide screen view)"
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mowens.com uploaded /File:indiejs-v1-posting-photo.png "Indie.js Posting Interface (Photo entry type) v1 implementation (Wide screen view)"
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mowens.com uploaded /File:indiejs-v1-web-action-reply.png "Indie.js v1 implementation of Reply Web Action"
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mowens.com uploaded /File:indiejs-v1-web-action-repost.png "Indie.js v1 implementation of Repost web action"
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mowens.com uploaded /File:indiejs-v1-webmention-manager.png "Indie.js v1 Webmention Manager interface"
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mowens.com edited /Indie.js (+610) "/* Screenshots updated for v1 of Indie.js as seen on https://mowens.com */" (view diff)
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mowens.com uploaded /File:indiejs-v1-search-categories.png "Indie.js v1 Search and Category interface"
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ShaneHudson For a brand new framework, it looks pretty feature-rich! :)
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Loqi [mention] http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4Xh9i1/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Shrewdness (webmention)
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@BarnabyWalters @erinjo the one I’m writing this reply in :) http://indiewebcamp.com/Shrewdness /img/screen-shot-2014-08-2… http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4Xh9i1/ (twitter.com/_/status/502028048389386240)
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mko ShaneHudson: Thanks. I've been working on it for about a month and a half. Gotten pretty far with it in a short period of time, and honestly about a third of that time was spent designing the Portfolio section and building out the image assets for it.
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mko And the Portfolio section right now isn't a part of the framework, so I've really only been working on the framework itself probably 4-5 weeks of concentrated time. I made most of the progress in the first two weeks.
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mowens.com uploaded /File:indiejs-v1-indieauth-loggedout.png "Indie.js v1 IndieAuth login box"
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mowens.com uploaded /File:indiejs-v1-indieauth-loggedin.png "Indie.js v1 IndieAuth profile / logout"
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barnabywalters mko: amazing work on Indie.js and LOVING the colour-coded indiemark scores!
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mowens.com edited /Indie.js (+261) "/* Screenshots */" (view diff)
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mko Thanks, barnabywalters
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mko Been excited to start releasing what I've been working on, but health issues and visitors from out of town have been a constant interruption since the start of August.
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mowens.com edited /Indie.js (+284) "/* Adds link to TODO list */" (view diff)
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mko barnabywalters: Shrewdness is pretty sweet.
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barnabywalters mko: thanks!
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mko Interesting. Why did you choose elastic search?
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barnabywalters ease of installation, flexibility, ability to store data as well as index it, ease of searching, ease of queryinh
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mko Gotcha. I'm not very familiar with ES and haven't found a use for it yet myself, so I'm always interested in how people utilize it.
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barnabywalters I’ve run into a few unexpected limitations (such as the inability to easily change the parameters of an index once it’s created) but overall I’m extremely impressed
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mko Interesting. I've found a bug in my webmention discovery tool thanks to you, barnabywalters.
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barnabywalters it’s the closest thing I’ve found to the idea “dump data in, query it out in ways which is both flexible and extremely fast” datastore
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mko Yeah. I use a full-text redis search for mine.
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barnabywalters (also: geo queries and everything is super fast)
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barnabywalters mko: oh cool, which one is it? relative URLs or link headers? or both?
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mko It's not perfect, but it worked pretty much straight out the box. TJ (visionmedia) wrote it.
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mko I use both, but apparently, getting your page http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4Xh9i1/ doesn't return a request.headers.link object like expected.
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mko It looks like it's because you've concat'd both webmention and http://webmention.org into a single rel attribute.
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barnabywalters ah yes — the rel attribute is a whitespace-separated list, just like class
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mko Anyway, it's π AM here. I'm going to bed. I'll fix that tomorrow.
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mko G'night
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barnabywalters night!
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@legocoder join the indieweb movement: http://indiewebcamp.com/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/502045439697620992)
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@pjan_stellar RT @adactio: @craigmod @t I’ve gathered some together here: http://adactio.com/links/tags/indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/502053696239190017)
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@LewisCowper @alpsoy @aral It’s not impossible, just improbable. We can try with moves toward the #indieweb, and owning our own data. (twitter.com/_/status/502065828620423168)
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@hugoroyd @voxpelli hello, i notice that sometimes tweets get to send webmentions, sometimes not. How to debug? (twitter.com/_/status/502066045189128192)
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@voxpelli @hugoroyd Tweets sending webmentions probably happen because someone in the conversation has signed up to @schnarfed’s Bridgy (twitter.com/_/status/502067321629069312)
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elliottucker managed to get Known working with nginx if anyone's interested.
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elliottucker nginx conf http://hastebin.com/pefazovime
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elliottucker needs a diff on the source code. http://hastebin.com/banicimope
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cweiske elliottucker, a PR to idno might help
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cweiske the nginx conf could be put in their README
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elliottucker yep...will sort that out later.
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jonnybarnes elliottucker: is default_server needed on the listen directive?
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elliottucker prob not...
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jonnybarnes cool
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elliottucker nope, not required.
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ben_thatmustbeme gah, i hate it when I have had someone mention my name, but its too far in scrollback... can't find it in the logs either
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ben_thatmustbeme can't find anything in my logs either... must not have been important
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barnabywalters aaronpk: does pin13.net have the latest php-mf2? I’m seeing different results http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwillnorris.com%2F2013%2F06%2Ftesting-indieweb-comments and http://shrewdness.waterpigs.co.uk/test/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwillnorris.com%2F2013%2F06%2Ftesting-indieweb-comments (h-card name doubled in shrewdness due to @alt value being expanded)
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barnabywalters ah that should have been a !tell
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barnabywalters !tell aaronpk does pin13.net have the latest php-mf2? I’m seeing different results http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwillnorris.com%2F2013%2F06%2Ftesting-indieweb-comments and http://shrewdness.waterpigs.co.uk/test/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwillnorris.com%2F2013%2F06%2Ftesting-indieweb-comments (h-card name doubled in shrewdness due to @alt value being expanded)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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barnabywalters !tell willnorris your post page h-card has a doubled “Will Norris” in the name as it’s in image alt as well as being in the text! http://shrewdness.waterpigs.co.uk/test/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwillnorris.com%2F2013%2F06%2Ftesting-indieweb-comments — empty alt values are preferable in these cases, screenreaders will read the value twice
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm tzag indieweb :)
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Loqi kylewm: mko left you a message 7 hours, 43 minutes ago: I figured out what was causing passport-indieauth to fail with your domain. When filtered for h-card only, you don't have a h-card that contains a rel=me on your homepage. The current code (that I'm replacing now) used matching of rel=me and h-card url values to correlate the site owner's h-card.
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kylewm barnabywalters: I broke my shrewdness! {"error":"SearchPhaseExecutionException[Failed to execute phase [query], all shards failed; ...
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barnabywalters kylewm: ah yes KevinMarks had this error too. I know how to fix it, I suppose now it’s turned up again I should figure out how to prevent it too ;)
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barnabywalters kylewm: can you remember the last thing you did before this happened?
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kylewm barnabywalters: yep, so i had "http://snarfed.org" in the subscription list, added https://snarfed.org, deleted http://snarfed.org, and then it seemed like the https one didn't take, so i tried to add it a couple more times
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barnabywalters kylewm: thanks, that’s handy to know. It should work again now!
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kylewm barnabywalters: thanks! the error went away but my subscriptions are gone, was that expected?
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barnabywalters kylewm: oops no that shouldn’t happen. I’ll take a look in a sec
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barnabywalters kylewm: okay should be working now
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barnabywalters manuallyeditingjson—
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kylewm thanks barnabywalters
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barnabywalters np, apologies for the bugs
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kylewm re: your most recent post, shrewdception!
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barnabywalters kylewm: post a screenshot of you replying to my post of me replying! let’s see how many levels deep we can go ;)
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barnabywalters maybe the inline reply UI needs a photo file choosing control as well
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barnabywalters or drag/drop to choose
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barnabywalters I uploaded mine separately
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@glennjones For using transmat.io there is a simple JSON API for your content - https://transmat.io/help/api-overview #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/502111229843091456)
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kylewm oops, i hope you accept comment deletes, barnabywalters :/
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barnabywalters actually not yet
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barnabywalters maybe whatever just happened will prompt me to do so :)
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kylewm ha
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barnabywalters ew I didn’t realise how weird shrewdness looked on browsers which show all the scrollbars all the time
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barnabywalters hrm, not sure how best to deal with that
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barnabywalters ha ha ha you have a “cats” search column
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barnabywalters love it
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kylewm :)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/501945585155317760/17987549 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC (webmention)
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barnabywalters searching for “chickens” only returns your notes :(
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kylewm wherefore art thou chickens
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kylewm my image upload UI (scp) is just a tad less convenient than the wiki right now
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kylewm huh, Firefox is being lame about the scrollbars ... no overflow-y setting seems to be "visible when needed"
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kylewm ugh ambiguous, there was not a setting for "visible when needed" in my extremely limited experimenting
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barnabywalters well they often are needed, but they’re quite obtrusive
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barnabywalters and they don’t line up
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kylewm.com created /neonblog (+22) "Redirected page to [[Neonblog]]" (view diff)
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tantek 17 days til IndieWebCamp UK in Brighton!
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/UK
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tantek !tell hadleybeeman, tommorris can you make it to IndieWebCamp UK Brighton 6-7 September? Let's see those sign-ups! http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/UK/Guest_List
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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barnabywalters wooo
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tantek barnabywalters: see if you can bring a friend
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barnabywalters I don’t really know anyone in Brighton (who isn’t already coming) but I’ll be at dConstruct and some other events so I’ll see if I can find anyone who wants to come
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tommorris tantek: yes, I should be there. ;-)
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Loqi tommorris: tantek left you a message 1 minute ago: can you make it to IndieWebCamp UK Brighton 6-7 September? Let's see those sign-ups! http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/UK/Guest_List
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tantek barnabywalters: you know people in the UK in general right?
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barnabywalters tantek: not many who’d want to randomly go to Brighton for a web event :)
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barnabywalters although one of my friends in London might be interested, or know people who are…
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tantek barnabywalters: sure you have friends who have or want a personal site
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tantek s/sure/surely
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Loqi tantek meant to say: barnabywalters: surely you have friends who have or want a personal site
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tantek adactio - any other clearlefties want to come by and work on their personal sites?
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tantek tommorris - let's see that RSVP on the wiki then!
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tommorris.org edited /2014/UK/Guest_List (+288) "+me" (view diff)
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barnabywalters I’ll ping people involved in the web community where I lived (out in the middle of nowhere) and see if anyone there is interested in coming, or is going to dConstruct
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tantek lol at Tommorris image ;)
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tommorris oh, balls
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tommorris seems to have morphed into Aral.
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tantek.com edited /2014/UK/Guest_List (+594) "sort, apprentices" (view diff)
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tommorris.org edited /2014/UK/Guest_List (+71) "I'm not Aral." (view diff)
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barnabywalters tantek: why have you added apprentices back in? I specifically removed that after the feedback and discussion about the percieved hierarchy
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adactio tantek: I should ask my Clearleftie pal Graham if he wants to come along. Ex-Clearleftie Paul Robert Lloyd might also be into it.
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tantek barnabywalters: oh - because otherwise it seemed unclear how to add them?
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Loqi adactio: tantek left you a message 3 days, 11 hours ago: Hey UK IndieWeb folks, propose an IndieWeb session for MozFest 2014 (in London 2014-10-24..26) http://2014.mozillafestival.org/propose/
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tantek oh yeah - definitely Paul - he was very passionate about it last time I talked with him
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barnabywalters tantek: if there’s only one place (Attendees) then it’s fairly obvious where to add people
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tantek barnabywalters: except it's not clear how to add who they're apprentices of
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barnabywalters tantek: it’s no clearer when they’re in a separate list
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tantek We could also change the headings to reflect the headers
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tantek "Has a personal site" "Wants a personal site"
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tantek I've never liked "Attendee" either - it's too classic passive conference consumer sounding
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GWG Wants to finish repairs to personal site
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rascul Wants to finish building personal site
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tantek there is no "finish" there is only improvement
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rascul it'll be finished when i die
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rascul i'm in no hurry to finish it
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tantek heh
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GWG Ok, I would like to achieve my next milestone
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rascul that's a good one, i'm right there with you GWG
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tantek finds it easier to run a mile than achieve milestones.
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GWG The process never endd, I am too obsessive compulsive for that.
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rascul tantek but how many milestones do you find in an average one mile run?
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rascul has never seen a milestone
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tantek.com edited /2014/UK/Guest_List (+50) "has a / wants a personal site" (view diff)
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tantek arg barnaby left. oh well.
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tantek well, anyone else looking at iterating on the 2014/UK Guest List page - check it http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/UK/Guest_List
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GWG tantek, you going to that?
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GWG Either way, I just started learning about transients in WordPress, so I might be rewriting code again
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tantek GWG, indeed: http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/UK/Guest_List##Tantek+%C3%87elik
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GWG tantek, you are just everywhere
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tantek GWG - hope you can make it down to Cambridge! http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge
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GWG tantek, up to Cambridge
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rascul i'm going to cambridge
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tantek !tell benwerd want to start gathering ideas/thoughts on IndieWebCamp DC here? http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/DC
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG I'm not sure. Jewish holidays
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tantek rascul awesome!
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rascul tantek dc as in the washington dc?
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tantek yes
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GWG But I will try. Same with a DC area one
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rascul i'll possibly go to that one also
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tantek benwerd has mentioned trying to put together a DC camp in early/mid november
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rascul dc is closer to me than cambridge, but i hate the dc metro area so i'll have to mentally prepare myself ahead of time to deal with the place
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tantek but anyone with interesting in having or going to an IndieWebCamp DC is welcoime to stub out or comment on http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/DC
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tantek rascul - if you have venue suggestions that would be great
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tantek I know benwerd is looking for co-organizers - any help would be great
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tantek go ahead and stub out the page with concerns / opportunities
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tantek (no need for any structure, even just text notes braindumps are fine)
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rascul i might be able to add some stuff there, i'll ponder it when i go back to work in a few minutes
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tantek !tell barnabywalters is this better? http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/UK/Guest_List
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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GWG Hi, snarfed.
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snarfed hey GWG
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tommorris Oh my, I observed a silo pattern I actually like. I logged in to a service using OAuth earlier. I came back to the site and I had to log in again... but it had set a cookie remembering which silo I'd previously used to log in.
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tantek tommorris: how is that any better than a service using a cookie to remember which personal URL you used to log in with Web Sign-in?
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voxpelli tommorris: A good way to avoid the classic "nascar" problem some perceived eg. OpenID as having
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tantek voxpelli: not just perceived - UIs had screenshots thereof
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tommorris tantek: it isn't. but alas we have some way to go to get to the point where I can sign in with tommorris.org rather than with Facebook. ;-)
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voxpelli tantek: one could argue whether it was the spec or the UI-tradition of spec implementations that was the real problem I guess
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tantek voxpelli: screenshot: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3378/3417905877_24b4744046.jpg
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tantek from: http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2009/04/06/does-openid-need-to-be-hard/
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voxpelli tantek: yeah, attempts at hiding the URL of endpoints, all attempts at hiding similar URL:s will have same problem, therefore WebFinger etc etc - the old debate :)
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tantek.com edited /NASCAR_problem (+210) "inline example screenshot" (view diff)
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voxpelli Not really sure what the IndieWeb solution is?
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hadleybeeman Tantek: I can come for Saturday
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tantek voxpelli you use your personal web address - that simple
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Loqi hadleybeeman: tantek left you a message 44 minutes ago: can you make it to IndieWebCamp UK Brighton 6-7 September? Let's see those sign-ups! http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/UK/Guest_List
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tantek voxpelli: it's less typing than your email address, and people already know how to do that
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tommorris tantek: http://tommorris.org/posts/9073
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tantek hadleybeeman: great! add yourself to the Guest_List and go ahead and note Saturday only in your RSVP: http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/UK/Guest_List#Has_a_personal_site
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voxpelli tantek: ok, I like that
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tantek voxpelli: if you find yourself having to hide URLs, you're using too many or too weird URLs
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tantek WebFinger was a solution worse than the problem
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tantek tommorris: feel free to add that example to the /NASCAR_problem page :)
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tantek.com edited /website-analytics (+95) "/* Makes Your Site Slower */ also why I don't use Transferring from fonts.googleapis.com" (view diff)
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tommorris.org edited /NASCAR_problem (+102) "self-citation is the way to go." (view diff)
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bigbluehat voxpelli: I'm exploring (via some nasty overloading ATM) how feasible it'd be to have HTTP client's handle email address style URLs as endpoints
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bigbluehat early (overloading) attempt info here: userinfo.me
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bigbluehat tl;dr the URI spec doesn't *require* the ": + password" bits in the `userinfo` section
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bigbluehat HTTP currently does
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bigbluehat hack in place now "overloads" the Authentication header to do "lookups"--but it could be used for OpenID-based auth...with further hacking :-P
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bigbluehat because browsers
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tantek bigbluehat: I have trouble following the proposal - perhaps you could diagram some user flows for a how user arrives at a supporting site, what a user sees (UI mockup), what they type in or do, what it sends to what server(s) etc.
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tantek and specifically - *diagram* rather than attempt to textually explain (which I find rarely works with login stuff)
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@giorgio_s_campo Omnichannel consumer profiles #openplatform beyond page performance responsive gains @boazronkin @ensighten #multichanneldata #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/502142174923087872)
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voxpelli tantek: Good diagram tools suggestion? I guess that's where much such documentation falls, not having good affordable tools to design it with
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voxpelli Omnigraffle is nice, but crazy expensive
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mko voxpelli: I was about to recommend Omnigraffle.
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mko Realistically, the best cheap/free alternative that I've tried was Draw ( http://www.libreoffice.org/discover/draw/ ) but I haven't tried it in ages.
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bigbluehat tantek: great idea!
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bigbluehat login stuff does prove fiddly to discuss in prose...perhaps that's why it's still so broken :-P
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tantek voxpelli: re: "Good diagram tools suggestion", pencil, paper, camera, jpg, upload
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bigbluehat tantek: +1
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bigbluehat also just found asciiflow.com
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bigbluehat not pencil + paper
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bigbluehat but promising
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KevinMarks2 The draw tools in Google docs aren't bad. I think they still export SVG
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@kevinmarks “when Twitter/Facebook/Google+… inevitably go the way of Friendster and Myspace, I will still have a place to be online”-@scalzi #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/502156521044598784)
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kylewm.com created /👖 (+19) "👖-> pants for hmans" (view diff)
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@kyle_wm @hmans here’s this http://indiewebcamp.com/%F0%9F%91%96 :) (twitter.com/_/status/502157334961876992)
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KevinMarks2 Is it going to be worth talking to this group about fragmentions + marginalia? http://www.w3.org/annotation/
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tantek KevinMarks: shepazu has indicated in #social that he's interested in building upon fragmentions and marginalia - so what that's worth, you may as well *try* to be involved in the W3C WG
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KevinMarks2 Ok
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KevinMarks2 I'll see if I can get the w3c login fixed somehow
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KartikPrabhu ping Loqi!
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Loqi who, me?
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KartikPrabhu es thanks
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks2: fwiw... I also post annotations using the w3c media fragment syntax for video: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/gurdy-lights-sky
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kylewm aw sad, not a silo-death, indie publishing tool death http://skrivr.com/
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: it seems writing apps are too niche to become profitable
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KartikPrabhu also Editorially closed down early this year
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KartikPrabhu also fwiw again... indieweb+marginalia does everything in this diagram given by the w3c annotaiton group: http://www.w3.org/annotation/diagrams/annotation-architecture.svg
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kylewm !tell barnabywalters hey if i set .column-body { overflow-x: auto; }, the extra scrollbars go away (shrewdness/firefox)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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kylewm !tell barnabywalters doh, that should've been overflow-y
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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bigbluehat KevinMarks2: definitely get involved with the new annotation WG
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bigbluehat would be good to get wide representation from the world wide web...after all :)
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barnabywalters intrepid shrewdness users: refresh your caches and you can now rename columns!
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Loqi barnabywalters: tantek left you a message 2 hours, 33 minutes ago: is this better? http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/UK/Guest_List
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Loqi barnabywalters: kylewm left you a message 11 minutes ago: hey if i set .column-body { overflow-x: auto; }, the extra scrollbars go away (shrewdness/firefox)
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Loqi barnabywalters: kylewm left you a message 8 minutes ago: doh, that should've been overflow-y
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barnabywalters !tell tantek I really don’t understand how segregating people into “has” and ”wants” benefits anyone, but it’s better than “apprentice”
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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barnabywalters kylewm: thanks! will apply that later
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kylewm barnabywalters: tantek: how about one combined group, and just change the text at the bottom to "Add yourself to the list using the [attendee template] and up to one apprentice using the [attendee-apprentice template]"?
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Loqi [mention] https://kylewm.com/reply/2014/08/20/8/here-s-this-http-indiewebcamp-com linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/%F0%9F%91%96 (webmention)
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KevinMarks Kartik "use the down key" doesn't really work on this tablet
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Loqi [mention] http://www.elliottucker.net/2014/setting-up-my-indieweb linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.elliottucker.net/2014/setting-up-my-indieweb linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/h-card (webmention)
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elliottucker what happened then?
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kylewm elliottucker: what happened where?
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elliottucker nothing. looks like webmentions work with Known with absolutely zero effort...caught me off guard.
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kylewm ha :)
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kylewm doesn't do markdown though?
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kylewm elliottucker: check out if you haven't http://www.marcus-povey.co.uk/2014/07/24/markdown-support-for-idno/
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elliottucker hehe...i was just about to google that.
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@hmans RT @kyle_wm: @hmans here’s this http://indiewebcamp.com/%F0%9F%91%96 :) (twitter.com/_/status/502189392451338241)
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elliottucker changing post dates would be super. time to set up cachine too.
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/kyle_wm/502157334961876992/502189392451338241 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/%F0%9F%91%96 (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/kyle_wm/502157334961876992/502189372645851136 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/%F0%9F%91%96 (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://kylewm.com/reply/2014/08/19/3/last-week-i-had-a-co-and-a-smoke linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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KevinMarks_ elliottucker: I wrote an issue up https://github.com/idno/idno/issues/411
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KevinMarks_ I'm not really seeing Tantek's anti-share stance on android - I see it as a shortcut for copy/paste
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elliottucker thanks Kevin
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kevinmarks.com edited /share (+306) "/* Framing */" (view diff)
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@spigot I tweet more now that I have my own archive: http://spigotdesign.com/tweets/ It’s all mine, muhahahaaa #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/502229319863660546)
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