#indiewebcamp 2014-08-28

2014-08-28 UTC
wolftune joined the channel
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KartikPrabhu
yes I'm here too
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu: tantek left you a message 4 hours, 48 minutes ago: were you able to reach out to the usual Chicago hopefuls? Mari and I forget the other person's name that has @-replied a bunch on Twitter about Chicago HWC
indie-visitor joined the channel
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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KartikPrabhu
like me :)
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aaronpk
so how long until I take off the "beta" sticker from the irc web chat? :)
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aaronpk
maybe after I get indieauth sign-in to work with it?
indie-visitor and indie-visitor_ joined the channel
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gRegor`
Welcome, pitchdesignunion!
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pitchdesignunion
what is web mention
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "web mention" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=web+mention
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pitchdesignunion
what is webmention
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Loqi
Webmention is a simple way to notify any URL when you link to it on your site http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention
tantek joined the channel
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rascul
ooo cambridge getting closer
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @kevinmarks: heading up to homebrew website club now at Mozilla
(twitter.com/_/status/504791337867018240)
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tantek
greetings from @MozSF!
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aaronpk
hello from @esripdx!
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tantek
so far it's just me and lucasgonze here @MozSF
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tantek
though KevinMarks is on his way
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Loqi
kylewm: tantek left you a message on 8/27 at 12:15am: one more (hopefully minor this time) Bridgy Publish to FB request. Could I have it say "Originally published at: PostPermalinkURL" instead of "(PostPermalinkURL)" at end of FB POSSE copy? Trying for more human-friendly (paren syntax was intended for Twitter where chars are tight).
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bret
hi from SF
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aaronpk
bret lol
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bret
i mean...
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bret
hi SF
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bret
chatting about https://github.com/cast-blu/Ephemeral-Boilerplate/ Edwards boiloerplate project
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aaronpk
5 at pdx today!
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aaronpk
starting intros
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aaronpk
wehave a few new people here
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aaronpk
bret.io - static site hosted on github pages
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benwerd
(SF is mostly looking at Twitter Analytics and noting how little links actually get clicked)
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aaronpk
working on getting micropub working for his static site so other apps can post to his site
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aaronpk
this past week got continuous integration tests working
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aaronpk
and code coverage tests
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aaronpk
next step is getting post templates working for the micropub client
expandrew joined the channel
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bret
the weblogs update live!
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bret
😻
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aaronpk_web
hi from the web page!
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tantek
we are all exploring the newly launched https://analytics.twitter.com
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bret
real time irc
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tantek
KevinMarks: is trying to get his latest noterlive working on Heroku, some node nightmare.
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aaronpk
tom: mathpunk.net
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aaronpk
next things: get side comments working on his site (paragraph level comments)
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@kevinmarks
#indiewebcamp I am using http://t.co/aR90v2Qhkd, but thanks to a heroku deployment nightmare I have to use http://peaceful-headland-3727.herokuapp.com/ help!
(twitter.com/_/status/504805214415642624)
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tantek
hi npdoty
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npdoty
hello from pdx
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tantek
SF: tantek and tantek.com
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npdoty
(I think we're talking about this: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia )
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tantek
SF: Lucas Gonze and gonze.com
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aaronpk
bret is demoing kartik's site
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tantek
SF: Michael Verdi, works at Mozilla, I blog sometimes at michaelverdi.com
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tantek
… and blog.mozilla.org/verdi
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tantek
SF: Liza Sperling, here with KevinMarks, her first time, lizasperling.com a blogger site and is a noob, here to learn
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tantek
SF: Ben, werd.io
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tantek
… work at a place called Known, and indieweb startup
indie-visitor_ joined the channel
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tantek
.. (co-founded)
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tantek
… the first indieweb startup
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expandrew
discussing / demonstrating http://indiewebcamp.com/fragmention
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aaronpk
tom: use case is publishing early drafts of his book and letting people comment on paragraphs
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @benwerd: my site is werd.io, and I work at Known - http://withknown.com - the first indieweb startup
(twitter.com/_/status/504806238551412737)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: if you go to http:///irc/2014-08-27 you get the new IRC with the ability to post
(twitter.com/_/status/504806453115252736)
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aaronpk
npdoty: npdoty.name
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aaronpk
passing through portland from seattle!
lizasperling, verdi1 and webbenwerd joined the channel
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verdi1
hellooooo
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aaronpk
has been writing academic papers, wants them to be on the web rather than sending PDFs around
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webbenwerd
aaronpk: I now believe there are at least four of you
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: basically a bunch of us trolled @aaronpk into writing a web-based irc client that is better then any actual client
(twitter.com/_/status/504806690064039936)
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aaronpk
wants a workflow to be able to write on the web, then export PDFs for the people who still require that
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @lucas_gonze: usually web irc clients are horrible, but http:///irc/2014-08-27 is really light and clean
(twitter.com/_/status/504806910848024576)
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aaronpk
now working on graphics
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: if you add your nickname, your url and your avatar image to http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC-people your face will show in the irc logs
(twitter.com/_/status/504807152414760960)
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@benwerd
Geeking out over @aaronpk's amazing websockets-based web IRC client for #indiewebcamp. Join the chat! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-08-27?beta
(twitter.com/_/status/504807194076794880)
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@lizasperling
RT @benwerd: Geeking out over @aaronpk's amazing websockets-based web IRC client for #indiewebcamp. Join the chat! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-08-27?beta
(twitter.com/_/status/504807351602278400)
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tantek.com
edited /events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club (+20) "no Minneapolis meetup this week!"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
(and yes these papers are actually on his personal website!)
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@kevinmarks
RT @benwerd: Geeking out over @aaronpk's amazing websockets-based web IRC client for #indiewebcamp. Join the chat! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-08-27?beta
(twitter.com/_/status/504807544552824832)
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tantek
SF: Lucas made a URL shortener for himself on his own site
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aaronpk
npdoty: interested in privacy implications and pseudonym usage in the indieweb
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benwerd
aaronpk: feature request - links opening in a new window ;)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @lucas_gonze: I finally made aa url shortener for myself, and here's a gist for how https://gist.github.com/lucasgonze/c5d935823ef17f5ffa3f
(twitter.com/_/status/504807981477666816)
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aaronpk
benwerd: lol yeah snarfed already sent a PR foer that :)
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tantek
… Lucas wrote the entire thing during Writing Hour, sitting here!
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tantek
… Lucas: uses a .htaccess file for the "storage" of the "IDs" and the destination URLs
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tantek
… that htaccess file lives on its own subdomain s.gonze.com so it can use a dedicated htaccess
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aaronpk
...separating the reading from the writing so that if you follow all the same people from two pseudonyms you don't need to duplicate data
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tantek
… make a dedicate domain that supports htaccess
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tantek
… ssh in there
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tantek
… go to random.org that generates good random numbers
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tantek
… use the page to generate random strings integers, upper/lower letters, create 10k
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tantek
… save them to a txt file
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aaronpk
andrew: expandrew.com
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tantek
… create an htaccess file using an awk script
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tantek
… to convert each random number to a Rewrite rule
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aaronpk
... in a web development course on epicodus learning ruby on rails, 8 weeks into it
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tantek
… used 10k random strings to avoid sequential crawling
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aaronpk
... first experience doing anything on the web, studied architecture at UO and now back in PDX
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @lucas_gonze: a wholly static URL shortener that just uses prexisting random strings https://gist.github.com/lucasgonze/c5d935823ef17f5ffa3f
(twitter.com/_/status/504808866710708225)
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aaronpk
... was following indiewebcamp for 2 years and now ready to dive in
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aaronpk
... uses a private twitter account that nobody follows to post quick thoughts, but wants to move those to his own place
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aaronpk
... also uses tumblr but wants to move off
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aaronpk
... has had his own domain/hosting since middle school
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: I need help with fixing the rel-me auth PHP library doing rel-me auth handling with twitter. I added http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Tantek.com#need_help_with
(twitter.com/_/status/504809229346021376)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: never mind saving the world, fix your own site first. Sometimes you need to ask for help
(twitter.com/_/status/504809332618190848)
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aaronpk
... next step is building a private twitter clone in ruby on rails for private notes
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aaronpk
... has a mac mini at home with a raspberry pi running openvpn, wants to run his private server there so it's not even on the internet
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tantek
SF: benwerd - got a need help with thing, posting audio
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gRegor-phone
Hello, hello
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tantek
… has a UI now, can press it an upload media
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Loqi
gRegor-phone: tantek left you a message on 3/25 at 12:45am: it's not a DRY violation if you only have one feed.html page which has your latest posts, *instead of* your home page. XML/RDF feeds are typically DRY violations because they *DUPLICATE* what's already on your home page.
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Loqi
gRegor-phone: bret left you a message 3 weeks, 4 days ago: just updated the next HWC wiki page, can you look to make sure chicago details look right?
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tantek
… on desktop it works. on mobile it either doesn't work or crashes
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @benwerd: Ineed help with posting audio on known - we have the ability to upload audio, but on mobile it fails a lot.
(twitter.com/_/status/504809724491988992)
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tantek
… trying to figure out how to let people upload audio, on a mobile device, on a web page
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gRegor-phone
Whoa. what's with the ancient tells?
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tantek
… doing it now on an andoird
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aaronpk
whoa... backtick?
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tantek
… by recording separately to a file
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tantek
… and then using Firefox to upload it
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @benwerd: chrome on android strips out the file extension of the mp3 so I have to use Firefox
(twitter.com/_/status/504809927131414528)
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gRegor-phone
I haven't used this nick before, that I can remember
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tantek
… can't use Chrome because Chrome strips the file extension of an audio file when it uploads
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tantek
… (this is all on Android)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @benwerd: If I use GetUserMedia it saves as Wav files - I'd rather it was mp3 files
(twitter.com/_/status/504810022010748928)
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aaronpk
next up: jennifer
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aaronpk
doesn't yet have a domain name
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gRegor-phone
just testing out beta chat in Nexus 4 Chrome. Works like a charm.
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aaronpk
...writer by profession, works on docs at symantec in eugene
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tantek
hello
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tantek
gRegor - possible that some message(s) were left for gRegor (without a backtick)
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npdoty
following multiple scribes writing in parallel is awesome/hard
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @benwerd: I also made the software on my site between 3 and 20 times faster yesterday, so thats good.
(twitter.com/_/status/504810490216710144)
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aaronpk
... was involved in academia in the past, who were some of the first people to take advantage of the web
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gRegor-phone
interesting if Loqi only does too* matching.
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Loqi
is done
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aaronpk
... the Labyrinth, a compliation of research and teaching tools
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gRegor-phone
s/too/foo/
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Loqi
gRegor-phone meant to say: interesting if Loqi only does foo* matching.
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aaronpk
... the Web was a real gift for people to be able show students things that were otherwise very inaccessible (microfishe, or physical items in locked cases)
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aaronpk
... in the past year has been trying to put some things together for herself
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tantek
SF: Liza tried to sign in to the wiki with lizasperling.com and G+ and it gave an error
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aaronpk
... has been going to writethedocs conference and meetups in pdx
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: do you have links to your profile on your site? You should be able to login
(twitter.com/_/status/504811053822115840)
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aaronpk
... has her own stuff she wants to write about, first step is needs a blog
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aaronpk
... would rather build up a blog from scratch. also because she wants to develop top-of-the-stack skills, background is in raw HTML/CSS from a while ago.
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aaronpk
tantek: note the two troubleshooting items here http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuth#Why_is_Google.2B_not_working
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tantek
kevinmarks, lizasperling see ^^^
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tantek
SF: Michael Verdi - needs help with WordPress, seems to get hacked a lot
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tantek
… is tired of it, doesn't want to deal with it
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tantek
… needs help with it
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tantek
… would like to keep 10 years of archives
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tantek
… but does have auto-updates working
gRegor` and npd joined the channel
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aaronpk
next up: edward
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aaronpk
... works at UTI doing UX work
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npd
is
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aaronpk
... current domain is castersblues.com but uses it mostly just for a cool email address
KevinMarks__ joined the channel
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tantek
SF: Michael Verdi - had a pharmahack problem due to an old wordpress plugin
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npd
is
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npd
abcd efgh ijkl
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npd
abcd
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tantek
SF: Michael Verdi - I like my Mozilla blog because other people take care of it
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npdoty
aaronpk, in the Web client, only one word that follows a "/me" seems to actually make it to the channel
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tantek
… but then I can't do anything with it
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aaronpk
... bought a new domain recently
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tantek
SF: Lucas - think about - embrace the transient nature of the web
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @lucas_gonze: I disabled a blog that I haven't touched for a few years; embrace the transient nature of the web.
(twitter.com/_/status/504813324073070592)
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tantek
SF: KevinMarks - there are tools that will help you turn your site in just a set of static pages if you want to freeze a site
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aaronpk
... working on his own CSS framework
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @kevinmarks: what @pinboard said was to run wordpress locally and use wget to make a static site from it
(twitter.com/_/status/504813681192878081)
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@OhhSocialMedia
RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @lucas_gonze: I disabled a blog that I haven't touched for a few years; embrace the transient nature of the web.
(twitter.com/_/status/504813712294043648)
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bret.io
edited /events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club (+74) "/* RSVP */ Added people"
(view diff)
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ben_thatmust
That can work. Just using wget
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aaronparecki.com
edited /events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club (+16) "add Jennifer (no website yet)"
(view diff)
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npdoty
a theme in the PDX discussions is that we all should be blogging about our work in progress, because the others would be interested in reading about it, even if it's not finished yet
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benwerd
concurs
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KevinMarks__
!tell aaronpk intersting indieauth problem with lizasperling.com - Google is adding a rel-me to https://plus.google.com/107379489464447013340 but that redirects to https://plus.google.com/+LizaSperling which gets rejected by indieauth
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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benwerd
blogging also seems to have a disproportionate community effect - blog posts seem to get a lot of attention, are reshared, get lots of thoughtful replies, etc
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aaronpk
KevinMarks__: weird... will look at that later... I thought it was checking intermediate redirects for matches too
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Loqi
aaronpk: KevinMarks__ left you a message 46 seconds ago: intersting indieauth problem with lizasperling.com - Google is adding a rel-me to https://plus.google.com/107379489464447013340 but that redirects to https://plus.google.com/+LizaSperling which gets rejected by indieauth
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benwerd
If any of you are Lift users, there's a "write 500 words a day" challenge - I'm using that to blog. Totally think you all should join me.
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tantek
SF: Michael Verdi is using ftp to edit his htaccess file so he can enable his WordPress to edit
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npdoty
discussion of Google Web Starter Kit, see: https://developers.google.com/web/starter-kit/
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gregorlove.com
edited /events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club (+39) "/* RSVP */ Adding Margot"
(view diff)
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kylewm
what is Lift?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Lift" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Lift
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tantek
What is Google Web Starter Kit?
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Loqi
Google Web Starter Kit is front-end code boilerplate and "tooling for multi-device development" http://indiewebcamp.com/Google_Web_Starter_Kit
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gonze.com
created /User:Gonze.com (+84) "Created page with "An indie shortener I made: https://gist.github.com/lucasgonze/c5d935823ef17f5ffa3f""
(view diff)
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benwerd
kylewm: it's an app that aims to help you build good habits. I'm a fan.
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tantek
KevinMarks, add to http://indiewebcamp.com/Blogger#Issues re: not being able to add arbitrary rel=me links in that particular template
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aaronpk
bret talking about using private tumblor blogs as a backup of content
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npdoty
I still don't fully understand this Google Web Starter Kit, but it does sound nice (like: "Reload the browser in real-time anytime an edit is made without the need for an extension.")
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tantek
aaronpk - why private? I use tantek.tumblr.com as a public backup of other silo posts - /PESETAS style
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lucasgonze
Web Starter Kit took a bit for me to grok too
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tantek
npdoty - feel free to add questions to the wiki page on Web Starter Kit
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lucasgonze
it is halfway between html5boilerplate and Bootstrap
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npdoty
sounds like it uses (or is similar to) this gulp.js build tool: http://gulpjs.com/
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lucasgonze
yes, it comes with gulp serve, for example
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lucasgonze
but they don't expect you to ever pull from them again after your intial one
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tantek
SF: Michael Verdi was able to update his htaccess to allow editing his WordPress and added a rel=me link and successfully logged into the wiki!
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lucasgonze
it's a super fancy template
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bret
my PESATAS of pinboard http://physisima.tumblr.com
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tantek.com
created /PESATAS (+21) "r"
(view diff)
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gregorlove.com
edited /events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club (+54) "/* Photos */ Chi photo placeholder"
(view diff)
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post-by-email
uploaded /File:20140828-022724.jpg "Uploaded via email by Aaron Parecki <aar*@*recki.com>"
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michaelverdi.com
created /User:Michaelverdi.com (+132) "Created page with "Hi I'm Michael Verdi.<br> Blogs: *[http://michaelverdi.com michaelverdi.com] *[http://blog.mozilla.org/verdi blog.mozilla.org/verdi]""
(view diff)
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lucasgonze
what is PESOS
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aaronpk
hm I wonder what his email adderss is
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tantek.com
edited /pesos (-18) "redirect"
(view diff)
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tantek
what is PESOS?
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Loqi
PESOS is an acronym/abbreviation for Publish Elsewhere, Syndicate (to your) Own Site http://indiewebcamp.com/pesos
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ben_thatmust
interesting I'll have to check in to that web starter kit tomorrow
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kevinmarks.com
edited /Blogger (+405) "/* Issues */"
(view diff)
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Special:Log/upload () "uploaded a new version of "[[File:20140828-022724.jpg]]""
(view diff)
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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npdoty
Loqi, what is PESETAS?
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Loqi
PESETAS is an acronym/abbreviation for Publish Elsewhere, Syndicate Everything To A Silo http://indiewebcamp.com/PESETAS
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gRegor`
tantek: ^ Look! Chicago photo! We're real.
KevinMarks, benwerd and wolftune joined the channel
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aaronparecki.com
edited /events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club (+14) "/* Photos */ resize and spacing"
(view diff)
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gRegor`
I like that Riker is still on the glass, aaronpk :) Or is that a normal ESRI thing?
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aaronpk
gRegor`: lol yeah we leave them up
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aaronpk
and today Jennifer registered her domain! (no hosting set up yet) http://yourmom.io/
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gRegor`
suhweet domain
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gRegor`
surprised it wasn't taken
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aaronpk
so were ALL OF US
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aaronpk
we all pretty much said GET IT NOW OMG
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gRegor`
Hahah
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aaronpk
wrapping up here!
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ben_thatmust
wish links on ?beta would all open new pages when logged in
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kylewm
!tell benwerd my replies to you still don't seem to show up! lemme know if I should stop bugging you about it https://kylewm.com/reply/2014/08/28/1/maybe-like-judd-apatow-movies-definitely
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm
great photo KartikPrabhu, hahah
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu: gRegor` left you a message 21 minutes ago: Nice smile. :) http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club#Photos
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gRegor`
I didn't even look after taking the photo. Just noticed when I uploaded it.
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kylewm
CalvinPrabhu
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gRegor`
The relatively easy way I figured to upload photos directly from the phone is to add a link to the non-existent file on the wiki page (via desktop), then on the phone click the file link and it prompts for the upload.
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KartikPrabhu
verdi_ ooo that one is not my to-listen list :P
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu meant to say: verdi_ ooo that one is on my to-listen list :P
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tantek
michel_v, and lucasgonze add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC-people
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gonze.com
edited /IRC_People (+120) "/* Nicknames */"
(view diff)
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gonze.com
edited /IRC_People (-45) "/* Nicknames */"
(view diff)
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michaelverdi.com
edited /IRC_People (+127) "/* Nicknames */"
(view diff)
j12t and benwerd joined the channel
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michaelverdi.com
created /Template:verdi (+185) "Created page with "<span class="h-card" style="white-space:nowrap">{{sparkline|https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/499017446842310656/pryl_eia_400x400.jpeg}}[[User:Michaelverdi.com|Michael Verdi" target="_blank">User:Michaelverdi.com|Michael" target="_blank">https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/499017446842310656/pryl_eia_400x400.jpeg}}[[User:Michaelverdi.com|Michael Verdi]]...""
(view diff)
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tantek
SF: benwerd just recovered fatberg.org - stay tuned for updates!
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@jmenglund03
@bali_maha Going through #withknown setup process now. Test tweet from http://known.jenniferenglund.net/ #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/504844227386552321)
basal, scor, npdoty, gRegor`, indie-visitor and donpdonp joined the channel
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KartikPrabhu
!tell npdoty I am also interested in having web (read HTML) versions of my papers (traditionally written in Latex) any good recommendations for writing in a common format (markdown?) and then exporting to HTML/Latex/PDF as need be?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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npdoty
KartikPrabhu, yeah!
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Loqi
npdoty: KartikPrabhu left you a message 39 seconds ago: I am also interested in having web (read HTML) versions of my papers (traditionally written in Latex) any good recommendations for writing in a common format (markdown?) and then exporting to HTML/Latex/PDF as need be?
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KartikPrabhu
oh hi! :)
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npdoty
I need to write up a blog post with the process I'm using now
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KartikPrabhu
yes please :)
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KartikPrabhu
I still write in Latex because my advisor/collaborators do but it pretty much sucks
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npdoty
but the very short version is: write in Markdown, use Pandoc + citeproc to render to HTML and to LaTeX/PDF, a Makefile and a few custom filters to add bells and whistles
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npdoty
happens to be in the channel because he's writing up an email/blog post about tonight's meeting
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KartikPrabhu
tried pandoc about 3 years ago... wasn't that mature then I think
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KartikPrabhu
does the math come out in MathML ?
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neuro`
KartikPrabhu: some colleagues of mine are using it, seems more stable, but not sure about MathML.
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KartikPrabhu
neuro`: I mainly do mathematical physics so papers are filled with a lot of math-stuff
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neuro`
They use Pandoc with some other things to turn huge projcets code into ebooks so they can read the code on the beach.
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neuro`
KartikPrabhu: this explains that, and the fact you're still using LateX
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KartikPrabhu
MathJax is great but I would rather have math in MathML by defualt instead of latex soup
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KartikPrabhu
neuro`: Latex is horrible. so many wasted hours getting the layout right!
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neuro`
KartikPrabhu: yeah, last time I used it was 11 years ago and I'm happy I don't have anymore, even though the rendering is awesome.
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npdoty
I appreciate that, until my webmention-sending code is running automatically, I can reply to a post of aaronpk and then just paste my URL on his page and click a button
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npdoty
aaronpk++
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Loqi
aaronpk has 554 karma
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KartikPrabhu
npdoty: webmention forms are brilliant! advantage of just using plain old HTMl + HTTP
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KartikPrabhu
npdoty: afaik webmention forms were first used by adactio
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neuro`
Unfortunately, too few sites support it.
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KartikPrabhu
neuro`: the rendering can be fixed (and made much better) with CSS! :)
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npdoty
KartikPrabhu, I also don't know how MathML works with regard to Pandoc
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npdoty
... but I can confirm that the project is mature and well-maintained now
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KartikPrabhu
neuro`: you can make your own form like so: https://kartikprabhu.com/connection/webmentionsender ;)
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npdoty
... and Professor MacFarlane (in Philosophy at Berkeley) has been extremely responsive when I've filed bugs
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KartikPrabhu
npdoty: good to know... will take it for a spin and await eagerly your blog post on it :)
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neuro`
KartikPrabhu: was more thinking about the endpoint. I need to add that on my publishing tool too.
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npdoty
... and in general Pandoc is extensible via filters (which can run arbitrary code on an intermediate object form of any piece of writing) or just via piping tools
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KartikPrabhu
neuro`: aah yes that is an issue. hopefully soon people will warm up to having their own sites
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neuro`
KartikPrabhu: lovely, loving the form.
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KartikPrabhu
neuro`: I should add more details on the page about how it parses for links and all tht
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KartikPrabhu
npdoty: from pandoc homepage "Several different methods of rendering math in HTML are provided, including MathJax and translation to MathML" !!! oh man!
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npdoty
there you go!
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KartikPrabhu
jumps with excitement!
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npdoty
I have noticed that when I go looking for whether a feature exists, jgm has often already considered or even implemented it
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KartikPrabhu
npdoty: signs of a good library :)
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KartikPrabhu
alrighty! must sleep... have more math+latex to write tomorrow :P
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KartikPrabhu
thanks npdoty and neuro`
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KartikPrabhu
night Loqi!
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Loqi
yeah!
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neuro`
Have a good night KartikPrabhu
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Loqi
gute nacht!
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tantek.com
edited /events/2014-09-10-homebrew-website-club (+34) "/* URLs */ add Minneapolis FB event"
(view diff)
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tantek
good evening neuro`! add yourself with an image to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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neuro`
tantek: good morning. Sure will do.
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t37.net
edited /IRC_People (+55) "/* Nicknames */"
(view diff)
ShaneHudson, npdoty, alanpearce, KartikPrabhu, glennjones and eschnou joined the channel
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@ookook
@fdevillamil we already had a discussion about webmention, havn’t we?
(twitter.com/_/status/504899550101135361)
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KevinMarks_
Linkslapping team
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neuro`
KevinMarks_: we actually have a ticket aboutimplementing Webmention (been around for 1 year I think), and I'd love to see that moving forward.
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neuro`
I love it.
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neuro`
Known looks really awesome
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KevinMarks_
It's getting there. Learned a lot watching Liza set it up tonight
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colintedford.com
edited /2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (+0) "/* Participants */ Correct # of participants again."
(view diff)
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colintedford.com
edited /2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (+7) "/* Official Guest List */ Fix link (UK -> Cambridge)"
(view diff)
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eliemichel
npdoty: Interested in your paper rendering workflow too. Made a parser to add TeX math to markdown files and ease layout
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eliemichel
about a year ago
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eliemichel
but I have problems with page cut when exporting it to pdf
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eliemichel
I had problems with custom paragraphs too (such as theorem, or proof) that I wanted to add to markdown. my syntax is almost ugly
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eliemichel
I think it would be nice to have a look at the format used in wikies
KevinMarks, barnabywalters and krendil joined the channel
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@dhpaulspence
Just watched recently posted talk by Tantek Çelik @t 'The once and future IndieWeb' - great presentation https://www.youtube.com/
(twitter.com/_/status/504928405243297792)
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@MogulAzam
RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @lucas_gonze: usually web irc clients are horrible, but http:///irc/2014-08-27 is really light and clean
(twitter.com/_/status/504950293394898944)
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colintedford.com
edited /User:Colintedford.com (-188) "/* Current setup & practices */ LiveJournal Cross-poster seems to be broken."
(view diff)
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colintedford.com
edited /User:Colintedford.com (+260) "/* Former setup & practices */ POSSE to LJ"
(view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
good morning
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eliemichel
'morning
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eliemichel
(It's 4pm where I am =P)
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neuro`
Good morning UGT
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ben_thatmustbeme
what is everyone up to today?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "everyone up to today" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=everyone+up+to+today
verdi_, wolftune and lucasgonze joined the channel
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@yeca
Un service pour gérer les pingbacks qui peut être utile á l'occasion : webmention.io
(twitter.com/_/status/505001312182759424)
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miche.lv
edited /IRC_People (+80) "/* Nicknames */"
(view diff)
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miche.lv
created /User:Miche.lv (+16) "Created page with "Michel Valdrighi""
(view diff)
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michel_v
my first connection using web sign-in :)
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michel_v
I don't understand why the website's twitter app needs to read my timeline and the list of accounts that I follow though
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michel_v
but maybe these privileges are by default and can't be renounced
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barnabywalters
michel_v: welcome! I believe that’s the case, yes
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neuro`
michel_v: github sign in is less permissive if it really bugs you
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michel_v
oh it doesn't bug me, I was just surprised :)
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ben_thatmustbeme
huh, that is surprising. I always log in with G+ so i never noticed
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ben_thatmustbeme
also, welcome michel_v
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michel_v
thanks. been lurking forever
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barnabywalters
it’s not documented very much but you can also authenticate using GPG if you link to your public key with rel=pgpkey
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neuro`
awesome
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michel_v
nice, I'll try that someday. is the implementation opensource?
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ben_thatmustbeme
theres really no code for it, just put a link on your page to it and there is a new option when you go to log in
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ben_thatmustbeme
but on the other side, the code for being an indieauth server is open source
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ben_thatmustbeme
michel_v are you just going to be using static pages or some software for your site?
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michel_v
well I don't really have a website where others could log in anymore
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neuro`
michel_v: been a while since you didn't blog
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michel_v
I was childless the last time
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@zKooky
Webmention a l'air cool comme protocole de notification pour de la décentralisation : https://github.com/converspace/webmention
(twitter.com/_/status/505007293214511104)
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@DecentraliTweet
RT @zKooky: Webmention a l'air cool comme protocole de notification pour de la décentralisation : https://github.com/converspace/webmention
(twitter.com/_/status/505008382097776640)
gRegor`, verdi_ and indie-visitor joined the channel
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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ben_thatmustbeme
!tell KartikPrabhu I'm trying to webmention you but getting 'Source URL does not contain a link to the target URL' .. does it not like the fragmention? or does it not check the 'in-reply-to' from http://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2014/8/28/1/_
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm
ben_thatmustbeme: just a guess, i bet Kartik is looking for u-in-reply-to instead of rel-in-reply-to
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ben_thatmustbeme
oh crud, did i mess that up
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ben_thatmustbeme
i really need to go over the mf on my site
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ben_thatmustbeme
kylewm, so I kave seen u-in-reply-to p-in-reply-to for classes and rel="in-reply-to" which i use
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kylewm
ben_thatmustbeme: you didn't mess it up, rel=in-reply-to is fine. i'm just speculating that maybe kartik is expecting the other one
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kylewm
since your reply-to is a simple url, you'll want to use class="u-in-reply-to" ... if it were a full reply context, that is when people use class="p-in-reply-to h-cite"
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kylewm
u-* properties just mean that the property is parsed like a url
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ben_thatmustbeme
oh i see, if i had a clip of the text i'm replying do, i tag that as p-in-reply-to
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ben_thatmustbeme
its not "this text is in reply to X" its "this text is what i am replying to"
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barnabywalters
ben_thatmustbeme: exactly, a /reply-context
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ben_thatmustbeme
makes much more sense to me now
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tantek.com
edited /webactions (+366) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Scott Gilbertson since ~2014-06-09"
(view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
well in any case, that didn't work, still getting that same error
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ben_thatmustbeme
according to the wiki he is using ronkyuu
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ben_thatmustbeme
i'm thinking maybe it doesn't match because of the fragmention
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barnabywalters
ben_thatmustbeme: you’re using PHP right? I think cURL has some issues with fragmention links — either stripping the fragment, or changing the escaping somehow
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aaronpk
remember that ## is not actually valid
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barnabywalters
my site doesn’t accept fragmention comments correctly, and I think the successful ones I’ve sent have been sent manually
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aaronpk
the second one needs to be escaped for URL parsers to handle it
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ben_thatmustbeme
i use php, but that shouldn't matter, I'm submitting the webmention on his site form too
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ben_thatmustbeme
hmm, so maybe if i change it to be in reply to with only 1 # (which the JS code on his site seems to support)
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ben_thatmustbeme
but all his internal links using fragmentions use ##
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KevinMarks_
I am regretting the ##
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aaronpk
but it's so iconic :)
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barnabywalters
IMO # has basically zero overlap with existing @id behaviour, so there’s not really any reason to use ##
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barnabywalters
existing services already overload single # (e.g. superfeedr with their CSS-selector-in-hash fragment subscriptions)
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mko
I don't remember why fragmentations don't use a URL Param (i.e. '?frag=') instead of ##.
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aaronpk
query strings are not for page-level selectors
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mko
Fair enough.
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KevinMarks_
Because they need to be handled client side, which # is
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barnabywalters
also ?frag would probably collide with some site somewhere. I don’t think query string param names are something you can standardise
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barnabywalters
at least without ugly namespacing, e.g. all the ?utm_source rubbish
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mko
True.
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ben_thatmustbeme
i am thinking of dropping back entirely to single # the JS seems to handle it fine just about everywhere i've seen them
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KevinMarks_
The worry about overlap with ids in practice doesn't matter as a lot of the existing cases are accessing subheadings anyway (eg our wiki)
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gRegor`
Why not hashbang for fragmentions? ;)
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aaronpk
also IDs can't have spaces so as soon as you target more than one word you can't overlap
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ben_thatmustbeme
plus you just add a second word and you are very much unlikely to have a conflict with an ID
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tantek
the ## is very recognizable (good as iconic branding) and immediately gives a clue as to what it does
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mko
Note: I wasn't questioning the usage. I just couldn't remember why.
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gRegor`
It does? To non-technical people?
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gRegor`
Re: "clue to what it does"
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KevinMarks_
But as it is an invalid url, it breaks a lot of code
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tantek
from a UX perspective, it is a very nice minimal, recognizable, and implied meaningful addition to URLs
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tantek
unlike all the alternatives for all the reasons people have given above already
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mko
And what's wrong with a single hash? Just that you could potentially have collisions with a single word fragmentation and an ID?
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tantek
as it is an invalid URL, it is safer to use and not have false positives
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tantek
mko - what aaronpk said above
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mko
I must have missed it. <heads to the logs>
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tantek
literally the previous thing he said
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ben_thatmustbeme
All in all, this isn't even the problem, I switched to a single # and KartikPrabhu's site is still telling me 'Source URL does not contain a link to the target URL'
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tantek
in addition - it is quite new and different technology (no implied uniqueness etc.) and thus *not* overloading the single "#" which already is quite overloaded was a good idea.
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gRegor`
Still using rel-in-reply-to, ben_thatmustbeme? Maybe he's not parsing that correctly.
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ben_thatmustbeme
i added u-in-reply-to i don't think an extra rel= would cause that issue
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gRegor`
ah
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ben_thatmustbeme
i'm wondering if it doesn't like any # on it
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gRegor`
You're using his form to send wm, or sending from your server?
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KevinMarks_
I think it is better seen as making fragment addressing actually useful
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek, the thing is, there is already an established, minimal, recognizable format to jump down to a specified part of a page, that happens to be #, the only real change is the plumbing of what it can find, fragmention becomes just an expansion of the existing and well known / supported #
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ben_thatmustbeme
gRegor, i am using his form
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ben_thatmustbeme
gRegor` i always miss your backtick
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gRegor`
:)
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: but it's oddly fragile then, as some words will just not work on some pages because it will go their ID instead of first occurence
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tantek
and oddly fragile tech is usually a sign you overloaded too much
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tantek
also, it lends itself nicely to further extension
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KevinMarks_
But a single word is a degenerate case
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tantek
KevinMarks: have used them a bunch of times
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tantek
not as degenerate as you think - especially for rare words
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aaronpk
hm I have never used a single-word fragmention yet
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tantek
onto further extension - you could use ### to express *two* phrases, a fragmention from and to, to indicate a longer block like a blockquote, without having to fragmention all of its text
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KevinMarks_
If we make it highlight the phrase rather than the paragraph, that would encourage use of more words
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aaronpk
I like the idea of something like ##from+text#to+text
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aaronpk
then it could highlight evething in between
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tantek
right
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KevinMarks_
That is like the paragraph transcluding idea
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tantek
except too many "#" in text now thanks to hashtags
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tantek
KevinMarks: not like - but rather the only thing we need to make <blockquote cite> work
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ben_thatmustbeme
do we need to use added #'s or can we use some other char?
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KevinMarks_
If you use an ellipsis … to imply
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aaronpk
oh right!
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tantek
and text has ellipsis too
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tantek
too common
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tantek
###from+text##to+text
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tantek
looks like a natural extension of ##
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gRegor`
hash soup
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tantek
or heck
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aaronpk
why not just ##from##to ?
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tantek
seems reasonable
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tantek
and then the choice of ## over # makes even more sense
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KevinMarks_
I think #from+here…to+there is understandable
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ben_thatmustbeme
except we are still on the issue of breaking tons of implementations are we not?
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tantek
KevinMarks: it is understandable yes, but "…" is present in too much actual text
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: *tons* ? I don't think so
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ben_thatmustbeme
okay, i overestimate
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KevinMarks_
There is the trickiness of do you want to highlight the elided bit
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tantek
plus yes we should have said that if you want to include literal "#" in the fragmention you should URL-escape
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ben_thatmustbeme
true, ... is common in text, but ## is possible in text too
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tantek
so that's a bug to file *now* on every implementation
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: like these logs :)
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aaronpk
oh dear
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tantek
LOLOLOL
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek: exactly where i was going
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KevinMarks_
I use ellipsis a lot when tweeting quotes
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tantek
hence why if you want to include a "#" in your fragmention, even today, you MUST URL-escape it
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ben_thatmustbeme
i think #from+...+to is all you need
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tantek
^^^ KevinMarks please add that to the spec
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KevinMarks_
Except people are escaping the second leading # to make valid URLs
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aaronpk
so a literal hash sign in the fragment is not a valid URL. is it really ok to redefine what a valid URL is?
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tantek
KevinMarks: that doesn't contradict what I said
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ben_thatmustbeme
the +...+ makes sure you break out of any ID matching, and its easy enough to say "if i don't find the text 'from ... to' then it must be a from-to fragmention format"
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tantek
that's *before* the fragmention text
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tantek
aaronpk - of course ok to extend URL - new URL spec in progress right now
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ben_thatmustbeme
can a hashtag be used in an id?
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aaronpk
so if # is ok in URLs, then this is how you'd reference ben's note above: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-08-28##%23from..to
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ben_thatmustbeme
it shouldn't be
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ben_thatmustbeme
nevermind, i just thought that through
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aaronpk
"IDs can consist of just digits, start with a digit, start with an underscore, consist of just punctuation, etc."
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KevinMarks_
Ids can have anything except spaces
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aaronpk
guess that means you can have emoji IDs now
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ben_thatmustbeme
so in theory id="#selfie" would mean that index.html##selfie would be confusing
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aaronpk
that should make for some interesting source code
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ben_thatmustbeme
id="💩"
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tantek.com
edited /fragmention (+451) "/* URL encoding */ sub DL for space, +, #"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /fragmention (+1) "/* URL encoding */ >"
(view diff)
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tantek
KevinMarks: nm I added the bit about URL escaping # if it's in your literal fragmention like "Use my #hashtag" (should be: "Use+my+%23hashtag" )
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KevinMarks_
That's good.
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aaronpk
the disclaimer on the proposed icon is my favorite
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gregorlove.com
created /shebang (+475) "shebang/hashbang"
(view diff)
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tantek
we need to turn /fragmention into a proper spec so ti doesn't get badly regurgitated somewhere else
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aaronpk
oh man now I really want to see phrase highlighting!
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tantek
interesting, seems like MediaWiki (or something in our config) doesn't like handling http://indiewebcamp.com/%23%21 propertly (which should go to a page with that name)
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tantek
s/propertly/properly
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: interesting, seems like MediaWiki (or something in our config) doesn't like handling http://indiewebcamp.com/%23%21 properly (which should go to a page with that name)
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ben_thatmustbeme
so i just tested it to see. created a page with id="#selfie" and a page with "#💩" and yes, ##selfie will jump to that ID
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ben_thatmustbeme
#💩 works too
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ben_thatmustbeme
in chrome ##selfie jumps to the #selfie id, the emoji don't work
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KevinMarks_
Presumably thats being escaped invisibly in ff?
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KevinMarks_
Is that like ff turning spaces into ”°20 and chrome treating them as search keywords for Google
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tantek
or turning spaces in URLs into + :)
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ben_thatmustbeme
either way the ## is actually ambiguous as it could link to an ID that just starts with #
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tantek
it can't per current URL defn because it is invalid
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tantek
so not ambiguous at all, it is 100% error, which makes it perfect for adding functionality
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aaronpk
that's actually a fantastic reason to keep ##
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KevinMarks_
I disagree. I think the endgame should be making I'd search a special case of text search
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ben_thatmustbeme
why don't we just look at #+ we immediately break out and define the fact that we are not just searching for and ID
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aaronpk
a slightly more ambitious plan
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ben_thatmustbeme
the only way to define that we are not searching for an ID in the page is to use a space, so put it right up front
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ben_thatmustbeme
if browsers are automatically assuming ## means search for an id starting with #
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ben_thatmustbeme
is trying to find the spec that says that index.html##selfie is not a currently valid URL
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KevinMarks_
It's linked from /fragmention
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ben_thatmustbeme
i see the ABNF does not allow it. The regex they give in Appendix B. does allow it however.
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ben_thatmustbeme
i'm guessing many implementors went to the regex first, which would explain why things that should not work (according to the RFC) do work
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kylewm
aaronpk: barnabywalters: it looks like quill is sending "in_reply_to" and shrewdness "in-reply-to" arguments for micropub. is one right or better to just accept both?
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aaronpk
oh crap I think I have a pending push that will change that
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aaronpk
I believe hyphens are correct
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kylewm
aaronpk: ok cool! that means i don't have to change my code :)
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@lucas_gonze
Met Michael Verdi by accident last night, at the IndieWeb meetup at Mozilla HQ.
(twitter.com/_/status/505047985055465472)
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aaronpk
this is kind of neat. I got a webmention from an email :) http://aaronparecki.com/events/2014/08/27/1/homebrew-website-club
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aaronpk
npdoty++
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Loqi
npdoty has 4 karma
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emmak
are those actual emails or a blog styled to look like email?
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aaronpk
I can't remember, it's confusing
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aaronpk
I think both
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aaronpk
somehow
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ben_thatmustbeme
what is npdoty
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "npdoty" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=npdoty
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aaronpk
who is npdoty?
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 3 hours, 22 minutes ago: I'm trying to webmention you but getting 'Source URL does not contain a link to the target URL' .. does it not like the fragmention? or does it not check the 'in-reply-to' from http://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2014/8/28/1/_
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KartikPrabhu
ben_thatmustbeme: must have messed up my webmention code somehow will check
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@ePirat
@lukasepple Gibt doch webmention stuff und z.b. pants ist ja ein toller ansatz
(twitter.com/_/status/505065418235838464)
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KartikPrabhu
ben_thatmustbeme: yeah that is most definitely some mess up on my part... will look into it this evening.
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neuro`
KartikPrabhu: so did you give Pandoc a try?
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KartikPrabhu
aah not yet that is also this evening project....
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KartikPrabhu
jeez so much to do
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tantek.com
edited /email (+14) "move TOC down to make POSSE section more readable"
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tantek__
emmak yes npdoty is POSSEing to /email and has been since 2009!
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tantek.com
created /npdoty (+30) "r"
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tantek__
who is npdoty
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tantek__
what is npdoty?
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kylewm
neuro`: does your entry on /irc-people indicate two different nicks?
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kylewm
aaronpk: I just showed off your sleep metrics post to a co-worker who got a jawbone, we were all surprised how little you sleep :)
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tantek_1
tries
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jgarber
Hello! I'm working on markup for displaying comments on my site (via webmention!) and am a bit confused about when (or if) to mark up a comment with h-entry and/or h-cite and/or some sort of in-reply-to.
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Loqi
jgarber: ShaneHudson left you a message 2 weeks, 6 days ago: I saw you're plugin, it looks very good but there appears to be no recieving/storing? I would rather not use an external service for it
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jgarber
I collected a handful of examples of how others are marking up their comments: https://gist.github.com/jgarber623/efe5ab4fb1e61e0fdbb6
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aaronpk_
kylewm: lol, really?
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jgarber
Does anyone have advice or suggestions? I've read through the wiki and am still a bit fuzzy on the relationship between h-entry and h-cite.
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aaronpk_
I guess I usually sleep <7 hrs most nights and sometimes catch up on weekends by getting 8
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aaronpk_
oh... Last couple nights have been short it looks like
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tantek_1
aaronpk it looks like even though I quit FF and relaunched, the IRC client/server on your side is holding onto "tantek_" in the channel.
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jgarber
(Or is that question more appropriate in #microformats?)
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kylewm
jgarber: I followed this for my implementation http://indiewebcamp.com/comments-presentation#How_to_markup
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kylewm
"p-comment h-cite"
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kylewm
that way, the "comment" property for your artice has a list of comment objects (of type h-cite)
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jgarber
kylewm: Oh, nice. Thanks! I hadn't come across this page on the wiki yet.
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jgarber
This wiki page pretty much explains everything. I should've known all my questions would've been answered and thoroughly documented.
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kylewm
interesting that most of the examples you collected use "p-comment h-entry"!
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sixtwothree.org
edited /IRC_People (+91) "/* Nicknames */ Add jgarber to IRC nicknames."
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tantek_1
does going to sleep and waking up work?
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tantek_1
wow
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@_amz3_
@nephthys @Nouweo but je préfère le #BleedingEdge #indieweb #unhosted #netart...
(twitter.com/_/status/505076320012107776)
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tantek__
kylewm unsurprising as the first uf2 attempt at marking up comments was p-comment h-entry. It wasn't until h-cite solidified a bit and we started making the distinction between original and copy.
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tantek__
That we switched to "p-comment h-cite"
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tantek__
aaronpk - it takes just a few seconds (if that) for me to resume in IRC via the web IRC log UI after waking up from sleep (without having to explicitly rejoin on my end). Much faster than the "native" Mac Colloquy. Amazing.
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tantek
on Mac Colloquy it can take many many seconds sometimes longer than a minute to reconnect / rejoin a server.
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tantek.com
edited /fragmention (+211) "/* Proposed icon */ float it, check out noun project for more ideas"
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tantek.com
edited /fragmention (-7) "/* Proposed icon */"
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sixtwothree.org
created /User:Sixtwothree.org (+909) "Create user page for myself."
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tantek
jgarber++
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Loqi
jgarber has 1 karma
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jgarber
One big point on the board! Thanks, tantek!
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tantek
hey that's how it starts ;)
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tantek
jgarber, and awesome user page start! now what's the next most-important-to-you thing that you want to add to or improve on your website?
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jgarber
Good question! I'm still polishing the webmention stuff and look to open source webmention.sixtwothree.org as soon as I make sure there's nothing private in the repo.
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jgarber
I have some ideas about how I'd want to automatically send webmentions when I write something new, I want to add a couple sections for content types (Links, Notes, etc.)... the list goes on...
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kylewm.com
edited /website-analytics (+163) "/* Piwik */ added myself as someone running piwik"
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tantek
jgarber: cool! now add those items to a "Working On" section on your user page :)
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kylewm
so Dave Winer's facebook/wordpress app claims to be able to edit posts on both platforms, but Facebook's API explicitly says you can't https://developers.facebook.com/docs/graph-api/reference/v2.1/post##You+can't+update
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kylewm
anybody know how he does it?
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tantek
ok kylewm - how did you POSSE your reply as a comment to the Disqus on his post?!?
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kylewm
copy pasta :(
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kylewm
adding an feature request to Bridgy right now though :)
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tantek
ah yes, the tried and true "manual" technique
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tantek
nice!
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tantek
while you're there
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kylewm
good call tantek!! that's totally in the same wheelhouse
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tantek
reminder to folks: propose sessions (e.g. indieweb related) for MozFest by tomorrow! http://2014.mozillafestival.org/propose/
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kylewm
tantek: one roadblock, I know snarfed is starting to get a little wary of adding new nascar buttons to the current bridgy UI (which is already pretty daunting for noobs)
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tantek
I can help with the UI design aspect
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kylewm
that would be SO GREAT, will definitely reach out to you when I/we have some concrete ideas
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bret
oops
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kylewm
. .. indieweb/ projects/ news/
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sixtwothree.org
edited /User:Sixtwothree.org (+531) "Add Working On section per Tantek's suggestion in IRC"
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neuro`
kylewm: it does (and I didn't add it myself).
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tantek.com
edited /events/2014-09-10-homebrew-website-club (-13) "/* Where */ Minneapolis time & place confirmed"
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tantek.com
edited /events/2014-09-10-homebrew-website-club (+755) "/* Where */ SF location confirmed"
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kylewm
oh wow, the answer is that facebook allows editing posts (now?) and just hasn't documented it yet
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neuro`
kylewm: I think it's been possible for a while now
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KevinMarks__
what happened to their commitment to documented api roadmap?
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neuro`
KevinMarks__: did they commit to that o_O
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KevinMarks__
"move fast with stable infra"
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neuro`
If it means not breaking the existing, that's a great step forward.
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neuro`
I wish AWS did that.
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kylewm
needs to read up on the API changes 2.0 -> 2.1
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KevinMarks__
finds that coinbase now has profiles https://coinbase.com/kevinmarks
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kylewm.com
edited /IRC_People (+89) "/* Nicknames */ split neuro` and fdevillamil into two entries"
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lucasgonze
I updated and debugged my indie URL shortener.
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tantek
lucasgonze++ for writing and sharing an awesome minimal indie URL shortener at Homebrew Website Club last night!
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Loqi
lucasgonze has 1 karma
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tantek
KevinMarks: how does coinbase work? can you create "pay me on coinbase" URLs? If so, can you add it to http://indiewebcamp.com/payment ?
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tantek
what is coinbase?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "coinbase" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=coinbase
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tantek.com
edited /events/2014-09-10-homebrew-website-club (+199) "/* Notes */ add notes about Lucas's URL shortener"
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gRegor`
Can lucasgonze time travel, tantek? :)
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tantek
gRegor`: he had s.gonze.com working last night
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gRegor`
Yeah. You edited 9/10 event though?
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tantek
oh darn it that reverting ALL My changes to 09-10 :(
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tantek
where's my Undo button for Revert? (cc: tommorris - who gets all MediaWiki complaints)
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tantek
oh great, now the home page links to my screwup :/
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tantek.com
edited /events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club (+199) "/* Notes */ add notes about Lucas's URL shortener"
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gregorlove.com
edited /Main_Page (+0) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ next"
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gRegor`
tantek: You can still go back and "edit" a past revision. Is that what you mean?
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tantek.com
edited /events/2014-09-10-homebrew-website-club (+776) "Undo revision 12757 by [[Special:Contributions/Tantek.com|Tantek.com]] ([[User talk:Tantek.com|talk]]) (as in redo all but the errant future notes)"
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tantek
I'm really liking the new more minimal and more frequently used links/pages sidebar
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tantek
It's been VERY useful when showing indiewebcamp.com to new people and encouraging them to get involved
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tantek
I'm looking forward to when the ?beta is no longer beta, and collapsing the "Discuss" vs. "Chat Log" links down to just one "Discussion Forum"
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aaronpk
don't call it a forum please
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tantek
but that's what new people look for!
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tantek
"forum" is more human friendly than "IRC"
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gregorlove.com
edited /Events (-1) "moving 8/27 to past"
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aaronpk
maybe I'm old fashioned, but a forum is a particular type of website that has categories of threaded discussions
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tantek
we're just a single threaded forum, with one category, "indieweb"
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tantek
aaronpk, it's like that comparison that caseorganic made between the activitystreams mailing list archive of *one message* vs. *one page* of our IRC log
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aaronpk
now it'll be an even prettier screenshot!
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tantek
needs to be updated :)
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tantek
oh and with the new "Join " button
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gRegor`
/events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club emojis don't show for me in Chrome (boxes) but do in Firefox.
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aaronpk
it's a chrome thing
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tantek
file a bug against Chrome :P
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aaronpk
emoji licensing is weird
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gRegor`
Looks kinda odd on Firefox with the line through them too :)
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tantek
wat - it's just using the font in the OS
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gRegor`
Not a big fan of emoji so won't be filing anytime soon ;)
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tantek
requires OSX 10.7+ too I noticed. Doesn't show on OSX 10.6.x.
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aaronpk
the problem is the artwork is all copyright the respective platform, so each platform has to create their own version of the emoji based on the text description
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aaronpk
can't remember the reason chrome doesn't (or can't) use the OSX default emoji
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tantek
aaronpk - someone will make an open source emoji web font
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tantek
it's inevitable
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tantek
likely with SVG even
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aaronpk
that does seem quite likely
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gRegor`
Do these emojis mean the HWC slogan is "Write, Link, Hammer time!"? I hope so.
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tantek
btw back to comparing IRC and "FORUMS"
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tantek
we can do a similar screenshot comparing our logs to say https://www.loomio.org/g/7hU5fK8O/diaspora-community-federation-discussion
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tantek
wait - so which federation thread did you mean? how are they different again?
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aaronpk
especially the "Do we need valid SSL certificates?" thread last updated 2 years ago
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tantek
a small minority of folks put too much value into such hierarchy, when for the most part (80/20) you need no such hierarchy
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tantek
it's basically a huge waste of time that just slows down discussion
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tantek
gunks the the UX
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tantek
s/the the/up the
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: gunks up the UX
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tantek
but classic dev-based over-design of IA
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aaronpk
of course the flip side is it's virtually impossible to discover anything in the IRC logs. it's purely useful for discussion, not so much discoverability
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aaronpk
that's why it's so important to capture discussions into wiki pages asap
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tantek
same kind of bad-think that causes schema-org hierarchy nonsense and volcanoes with fax machines
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tantek
no! it's a *feature* that it's *obviously* virtually impossible to discover anything in the IRC logs
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tantek
so people won't even pretend to try
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tantek
(unlike email archives)
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tantek
and thus are motivated to actually capture anything relevant on the wiki
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tantek
you vote with your wiki edits
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tantek
if you think something important was said in IRC, capture it on the wiki
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tantek
otherwise it must not have been important
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tantek
which is the *actual* truth for *all* discussion platforms, including email, PHP forumware, etc.
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bear
in an old community I was in (old as in 20 yrs ago) - we used to have a !bookmark command that allowed us to flag discussions in IRC for later rollup to documentation or website
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tantek.com
edited /Diaspora (+707) "add criticism / monoculture based on comment on diaspora federation forum, no current indieweb examples"
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tantek
KevinMarks: "author photos did not work well with the limited screen space and bandwidth of mobile" - I call bullshit. Disproof exhibit A: our logs.
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rascul
i liked google authorship
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KevinMarks__
I think the real failure was the silo tax meaning you had to have G+ profile in your rel-me chain
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tantek
why don't they just drop rich snippets completely then?
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aaronpk
I liked it too :(
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aaronpk
but yeah the G+ requirement was super annoying
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tantek
yeah - the artificial requirement of G+ was F'd
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KevinMarks__
and they are going to show G+ profile pics for posts from there
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KevinMarks__
if they're in your cicles
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rascul
not surprising that they killed it though
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tantek.com
edited /Google (+84) "/* Dead Services */ for more see dedicated wikipedia page to this phenomenon"
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KevinMarks__
they history is wrong there too - we had rel-me in google profiles in 2007
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tantek
well at least this means the Google dumb query param alternative is also dead
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aaronpk
oh yeah thank goodness, that was ridiculous
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tantek
see Google? that's what you get for proposing a dumb extension to a standard, and then limiting that standard's functionality to links to your own damn silo.
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tantek
no matter, let's just keep moving forward with /authorship
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tantek
awesome that we *already* have confirmed venues for all 2014-09-10 HWC locations!
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tantek
and Minneapolis has even already posted an event for it (even if it is on FB)
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tantek
!tell benwerd could you post an indie event and FB POSSE copy for http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-09-10-homebrew-website-club I know you can't make it yourself but an indie event would be great to have anyway!
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KevinMarks__
whats the dumb query param alternative?
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tantek
I have a link for that
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tantek
someone want to send all the Google rel=author pages/videos to the archivebot before they all disappear?
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KevinMarks__
ah right. that is dumb
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tantek
assuming Google prefers to delete history than keep it around and provide explanatory context
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tantek
I'm just assuming that large corporations are Orwellian by default.
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KevinMarks__
yep. like they did with social graph api
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tantek
I've already forgotten how to summon archivebot - commands in some IRC channel I forgot.