#indiewebcamp 2014-08-28

2014-08-28 UTC
wolftune joined the channel
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KartikPrabhu yes I'm here too
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: tantek left you a message 4 hours, 48 minutes ago: were you able to reach out to the usual Chicago hopefuls? Mari and I forget the other person's name that has @-replied a bunch on Twitter about Chicago HWC
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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KartikPrabhu like me :)
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aaronpk so how long until I take off the "beta" sticker from the irc web chat? :)
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aaronpk maybe after I get indieauth sign-in to work with it?
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gRegor` Welcome, pitchdesignunion!
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pitchdesignunion what is web mention
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "web mention" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=web+mention
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pitchdesignunion what is webmention
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Loqi Webmention is a simple way to notify any URL when you link to it on your site http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention
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aaronparecki.com created /web_mention (+23) "r" (view diff)
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rascul ooo cambridge getting closer
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: heading up to homebrew website club now at Mozilla (twitter.com/_/status/504791337867018240)
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tantek greetings from @MozSF!
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aaronpk hello from @esripdx!
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tantek so far it's just me and lucasgonze here @MozSF
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tantek though KevinMarks is on his way
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kylewm howdy from @DENAirport
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Loqi kylewm: tantek left you a message on 8/27 at 12:15am: one more (hopefully minor this time) Bridgy Publish to FB request. Could I have it say "Originally published at: PostPermalinkURL" instead of "(PostPermalinkURL)" at end of FB POSSE copy? Trying for more human-friendly (paren syntax was intended for Twitter where chars are tight).
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bret hi from SF
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aaronpk bret lol
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bret i mean...
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bret pdx
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bret hi SF
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bret chatting about https://github.com/cast-blu/Ephemeral-Boilerplate/ Edwards boiloerplate project
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aaronpk 5 at pdx today!
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castersblues.com edited /events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club (+40) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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aaronpk starting intros
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aaronpk wehave a few new people here
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aaronpk bret.io - static site hosted on github pages
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benwerd (SF is mostly looking at Twitter Analytics and noting how little links actually get clicked)
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aaronpk working on getting micropub working for his static site so other apps can post to his site
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aaronpk http://ugitpub.herokuapp.com/
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aaronpk this past week got continuous integration tests working
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aaronpk and code coverage tests
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aaronpk next step is getting post templates working for the micropub client
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lucasgonze https://gist.github.com/lucasgonze/c5d935823ef17f5ffa3f
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bret the weblogs update live!
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bret :D
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bret 😻
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aaronpk_web hi from the web page!
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tantek we are all exploring the newly launched https://analytics.twitter.com
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bret real time irc
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tantek KevinMarks: is trying to get his latest noterlive working on Heroku, some node nightmare.
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aaronpk tom: mathpunk.net
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aaronpk next things: get side comments working on his site (paragraph level comments)
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@kevinmarks #indiewebcamp I am using http://t.co/aR90v2Qhkd, but thanks to a heroku deployment nightmare I have to use http://peaceful-headland-3727.herokuapp.com/ help! (twitter.com/_/status/504805214415642624)
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tantek hi npdoty
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npdoty hello from pdx
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tantek SF: tantek and tantek.com
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I'm tantek, my site is http://tantek.com (twitter.com/_/status/504805387401326592)
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npdoty (I think we're talking about this: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia )
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tantek SF: Lucas Gonze and gonze.com
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aaronpk bret is demoing kartik's site
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tantek SF: Michael Verdi, works at Mozilla, I blog sometimes at michaelverdi.com
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @lucas_gonze: I'm Lucas and my site is http://gonze.com/rel-me/ (twitter.com/_/status/504805561435582464)
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tantek … and blog.mozilla.org/verdi
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tantek SF: Liza Sperling, here with KevinMarks, her first time, lizasperling.com a blogger site and is a noob, here to learn
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @michaelverdi: I'm at http://michaelverdi.com and I blog sometimes at http://michaelverdi.com (twitter.com/_/status/504805939921178624)
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tantek SF: Ben, werd.io
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @lizasperling: I'm new here and I'm at http://www.lizasperling.com/ and here to learn (twitter.com/_/status/504806038348890112)
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tantek … work at a place called Known, and indieweb startup
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tantek .. (co-founded)
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tantek … the first indieweb startup
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expandrew discussing / demonstrating http://indiewebcamp.com/fragmention
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aaronpk tom: use case is publishing early drafts of his book and letting people comment on paragraphs
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: my site is werd.io, and I work at Known - http://withknown.com - the first indieweb startup (twitter.com/_/status/504806238551412737)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: if you go to http:///irc/2014-08-27 you get the new IRC with the ability to post (twitter.com/_/status/504806453115252736)
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aaronpk npdoty: npdoty.name
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aaronpk passing through portland from seattle!
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verdi1 hellooooo
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aaronpk has been writing academic papers, wants them to be on the web rather than sending PDFs around
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webbenwerd aaronpk: I now believe there are at least four of you
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: basically a bunch of us trolled @aaronpk into writing a web-based irc client that is better then any actual client (twitter.com/_/status/504806690064039936)
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aaronpk wants a workflow to be able to write on the web, then export PDFs for the people who still require that
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @lucas_gonze: usually web irc clients are horrible, but http:///irc/2014-08-27 is really light and clean (twitter.com/_/status/504806910848024576)
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aaronpk now working on graphics
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: if you add your nickname, your url and your avatar image to http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC-people your face will show in the irc logs (twitter.com/_/status/504807152414760960)
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@benwerd Geeking out over @aaronpk's amazing websockets-based web IRC client for #indiewebcamp. Join the chat! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-08-27?beta (twitter.com/_/status/504807194076794880)
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Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/geeking-out-over-aaronpks-amazing-websockets-based-web-irc-client-for linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-08-27?beta (webmention)
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aaronpk example of SVG image generated http://aaronparecki.com/uploads/npdoty-svg-demo-20140827-184622.png
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@lizasperling RT @benwerd: Geeking out over @aaronpk's amazing websockets-based web IRC client for #indiewebcamp. Join the chat! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-08-27?beta (twitter.com/_/status/504807351602278400)
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club (+20) "no Minneapolis meetup this week!" (view diff)
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aaronpk (and yes these papers are actually on his personal website!)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: I'm at http://www.kevinmarks.com/ but also now at http://known.kevinmarks.com running @benwerd's software (twitter.com/_/status/504807435752587265)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/benwerd/504807194076794880/14447132 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-08-27 (webmention)
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@kevinmarks RT @benwerd: Geeking out over @aaronpk's amazing websockets-based web IRC client for #indiewebcamp. Join the chat! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-08-27?beta (twitter.com/_/status/504807544552824832)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/benwerd/504807194076794880/504807351602278400 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-08-27 (webmention)
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tantek SF: Lucas made a URL shortener for himself on his own site
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tantek … https://gist.github.com/lucasgonze/c5d935823ef17f5ffa3f
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benwerd argh
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aaronpk npdoty: interested in privacy implications and pseudonym usage in the indieweb
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benwerd aaronpk: feature request - links opening in a new window ;)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @lucas_gonze: I finally made aa url shortener for myself, and here's a gist for how https://gist.github.com/lucasgonze/c5d935823ef17f5ffa3f (twitter.com/_/status/504807981477666816)
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aaronpk benwerd: lol yeah snarfed already sent a PR foer that :)
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tantek … Lucas wrote the entire thing during Writing Hour, sitting here!
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benwerd :)
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tantek … Lucas: uses a .htaccess file for the "storage" of the "IDs" and the destination URLs
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tantek … that htaccess file lives on its own subdomain s.gonze.com so it can use a dedicated htaccess
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aaronpk ...separating the reading from the writing so that if you follow all the same people from two pseudonyms you don't need to duplicate data
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tantek … make a dedicate domain that supports htaccess
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tantek … ssh in there
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tantek … go to random.org that generates good random numbers
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tantek … use the page to generate random strings integers, upper/lower letters, create 10k
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tantek … save them to a txt file
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aaronpk andrew: expandrew.com
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tantek … create an htaccess file using an awk script
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tantek … to convert each random number to a Rewrite rule
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aaronpk ... in a web development course on epicodus learning ruby on rails, 8 weeks into it
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tantek … used 10k random strings to avoid sequential crawling
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aaronpk ... first experience doing anything on the web, studied architecture at UO and now back in PDX
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @lucas_gonze: a wholly static URL shortener that just uses prexisting random strings https://gist.github.com/lucasgonze/c5d935823ef17f5ffa3f (twitter.com/_/status/504808866710708225)
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aaronpk ... was following indiewebcamp for 2 years and now ready to dive in
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aaronpk ... uses a private twitter account that nobody follows to post quick thoughts, but wants to move those to his own place
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aaronpk ... also uses tumblr but wants to move off
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tantek SF: Tantek: need help with new section http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Tantek.com#need_help_with
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aaronpk ... has had his own domain/hosting since middle school
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I need help with fixing the rel-me auth PHP library doing rel-me auth handling with twitter. I added http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Tantek.com#need_help_with (twitter.com/_/status/504809229346021376)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: never mind saving the world, fix your own site first. Sometimes you need to ask for help (twitter.com/_/status/504809332618190848)
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aaronpk ... next step is building a private twitter clone in ruby on rails for private notes
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aaronpk ... has a mac mini at home with a raspberry pi running openvpn, wants to run his private server there so it's not even on the internet
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tantek SF: benwerd - got a need help with thing, posting audio
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gRegor-phone Hello, hello
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tantek … has a UI now, can press it an upload media
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Loqi gRegor-phone: tantek left you a message on 3/25 at 12:45am: it's not a DRY violation if you only have one feed.html page which has your latest posts, *instead of* your home page. XML/RDF feeds are typically DRY violations because they *DUPLICATE* what's already on your home page.
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/504807152414760960/46030292 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC-people (webmention)
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Loqi gRegor-phone: bret left you a message 3 weeks, 4 days ago: just updated the next HWC wiki page, can you look to make sure chicago details look right?
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/504806910848024576/1957282225 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-08-27 (webmention)
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tantek … on desktop it works. on mobile it either doesn't work or crashes
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: Ineed help with posting audio on known - we have the ability to upload audio, but on mobile it fails a lot. (twitter.com/_/status/504809724491988992)
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tantek … trying to figure out how to let people upload audio, on a mobile device, on a web page
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gRegor-phone Whoa. what's with the ancient tells?
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tantek … doing it now on an andoird
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aaronpk whoa... backtick?
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/504806910848024576/46030292 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-08-27 (webmention)
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tantek … by recording separately to a file
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tantek … and then using Firefox to upload it
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: chrome on android strips out the file extension of the mp3 so I have to use Firefox (twitter.com/_/status/504809927131414528)
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gRegor-phone I haven't used this nick before, that I can remember
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tantek … can't use Chrome because Chrome strips the file extension of an audio file when it uploads
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tantek … (this is all on Android)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: If I use GetUserMedia it saves as Wav files - I'd rather it was mp3 files (twitter.com/_/status/504810022010748928)
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aaronpk next up: jennifer
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aaronpk doesn't yet have a domain name
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gRegor-phone just testing out beta chat in Nexus 4 Chrome. Works like a charm.
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aaronpk ...writer by profession, works on docs at symantec in eugene
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tantek hello
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tantek gRegor - possible that some message(s) were left for gRegor (without a backtick)
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npdoty following multiple scribes writing in parallel is awesome/hard
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/benwerd/504807194076794880/504807544552824832 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-08-27 (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/benwerd/504807194076794880/46030292 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-08-27 (webmention)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: I also made the software on my site between 3 and 20 times faster yesterday, so thats good. (twitter.com/_/status/504810490216710144)
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aaronpk ... was involved in academia in the past, who were some of the first people to take advantage of the web
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gRegor-phone interesting if Loqi only does too* matching.
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Loqi is done
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aaronpk ... the Labyrinth, a compliation of research and teaching tools
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gRegor-phone s/too/foo/
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Loqi gRegor-phone meant to say: interesting if Loqi only does foo* matching.
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/benwerd/504807194076794880/2576431 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-08-27 (webmention)
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aaronpk ... the Web was a real gift for people to be able show students things that were otherwise very inaccessible (microfishe, or physical items in locked cases)
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aaronpk ... in the past year has been trying to put some things together for herself
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tantek SF: Liza tried to sign in to the wiki with lizasperling.com and G+ and it gave an error
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aaronpk ... has been going to writethedocs conference and meetups in pdx
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: do you have links to your profile on your site? You should be able to login (twitter.com/_/status/504811053822115840)
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aaronpk ... has her own stuff she wants to write about, first step is needs a blog
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aaronpk ... would rather build up a blog from scratch. also because she wants to develop top-of-the-stack skills, background is in raw HTML/CSS from a while ago.
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aaronpk tantek: note the two troubleshooting items here http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuth#Why_is_Google.2B_not_working
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tantek kevinmarks, lizasperling see ^^^
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tantek SF: Michael Verdi - needs help with WordPress, seems to get hacked a lot
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tantek … is tired of it, doesn't want to deal with it
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tantek … needs help with it
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tantek … would like to keep 10 years of archives
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tantek … but does have auto-updates working
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aaronpk next up: edward
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aaronpk ... works at UTI doing UX work
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npd is
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aaronpk ... current domain is castersblues.com but uses it mostly just for a cool email address
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tantek SF: Michael Verdi - had a pharmahack problem due to an old wordpress plugin
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npd is
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npd abcd efgh ijkl
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npd abcd
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tantek SF: Michael Verdi - I like my Mozilla blog because other people take care of it
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npdoty aaronpk, in the Web client, only one word that follows a "/me" seems to actually make it to the channel
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tantek … but then I can't do anything with it
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aaronpk ... bought a new domain recently
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tantek SF: Lucas - think about - embrace the transient nature of the web
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @lucas_gonze: I disabled a blog that I haven't touched for a few years; embrace the transient nature of the web. (twitter.com/_/status/504813324073070592)
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aaronpk (npdoty: thanks https://github.com/aaronpk/indiewebcamp-irc-logs/issues/8)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/benwerd/504807194076794880/64218381 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-08-27 (webmention)
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tantek SF: KevinMarks - there are tools that will help you turn your site in just a set of static pages if you want to freeze a site
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aaronpk ... working on his own CSS framework
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aaronpk ... https://github.com/cast-blu/Ephemeral-Boilerplate
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: what @pinboard said was to run wordpress locally and use wget to make a static site from it (twitter.com/_/status/504813681192878081)
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@OhhSocialMedia RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @lucas_gonze: I disabled a blog that I haven't touched for a few years; embrace the transient nature of the web. (twitter.com/_/status/504813712294043648)
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bret.io edited /events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club (+74) "/* RSVP */ Added people" (view diff)
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ben_thatmust That can work. Just using wget
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club (+16) "add Jennifer (no website yet)" (view diff)
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npdoty a theme in the PDX discussions is that we all should be blogging about our work in progress, because the others would be interested in reading about it, even if it's not finished yet
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benwerd concurs
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KevinMarks__ !tell aaronpk intersting indieauth problem with lizasperling.com - Google is adding a rel-me to https://plus.google.com/107379489464447013340 but that redirects to https://plus.google.com/+LizaSperling which gets rejected by indieauth
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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benwerd blogging also seems to have a disproportionate community effect - blog posts seem to get a lot of attention, are reshared, get lots of thoughtful replies, etc
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aaronpk KevinMarks__: weird... will look at that later... I thought it was checking intermediate redirects for matches too
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Loqi aaronpk: KevinMarks__ left you a message 46 seconds ago: intersting indieauth problem with lizasperling.com - Google is adding a rel-me to https://plus.google.com/107379489464447013340 but that redirects to https://plus.google.com/+LizaSperling which gets rejected by indieauth
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benwerd If any of you are Lift users, there's a "write 500 words a day" challenge - I'm using that to blog. Totally think you all should join me.
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tantek SF: Michael Verdi is using ftp to edit his htaccess file so he can enable his WordPress to edit
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club (+376) "/* Notes */ Chicago" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club (+19) "user: link for Lucas" (view diff)
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npdoty discussion of Google Web Starter Kit, see: https://developers.google.com/web/starter-kit/
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club (+39) "/* RSVP */ Adding Margot" (view diff)
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tantek today's meetup: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club
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kylewm what is Lift?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Lift" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Lift
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tantek What is Google Web Starter Kit?
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Loqi Google Web Starter Kit is front-end code boilerplate and "tooling for multi-device development" http://indiewebcamp.com/Google_Web_Starter_Kit
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gonze.com created /User:Gonze.com (+84) "Created page with "An indie shortener I made: https://gist.github.com/lucasgonze/c5d935823ef17f5ffa3f"" (view diff)
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benwerd kylewm: it's an app that aims to help you build good habits. I'm a fan.
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tantek KevinMarks, add to http://indiewebcamp.com/Blogger#Issues re: not being able to add arbitrary rel=me links in that particular template
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aaronpk bret talking about using private tumblor blogs as a backup of content
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npdoty I still don't fully understand this Google Web Starter Kit, but it does sound nice (like: "Reload the browser in real-time anytime an edit is made without the need for an extension.")
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tantek aaronpk - why private? I use tantek.tumblr.com as a public backup of other silo posts - /PESETAS style
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michaelverdi.com edited /events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club (+42) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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lucasgonze Web Starter Kit took a bit for me to grok too
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tantek npdoty - feel free to add questions to the wiki page on Web Starter Kit
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lucasgonze it is halfway between html5boilerplate and Bootstrap
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npdoty sounds like it uses (or is similar to) this gulp.js build tool: http://gulpjs.com/
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lucasgonze yes, it comes with gulp serve, for example
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lucasgonze but they don't expect you to ever pull from them again after your intial one
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tantek SF: Michael Verdi was able to update his htaccess to allow editing his WordPress and added a rel=me link and successfully logged into the wiki!
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lucasgonze it's a super fancy template
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bret my PESATAS of pinboard http://physisima.tumblr.com
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tantek.com created /PESATAS (+21) "r" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club (+54) "/* Photos */ Chi photo placeholder" (view diff)
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post-by-email uploaded /File:20140828-022724.jpg "Uploaded via email by Aaron Parecki <aar*@*recki.com>"
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michaelverdi.com created /User:Michaelverdi.com (+132) "Created page with "Hi I'm Michael Verdi.<br> Blogs: *[http://michaelverdi.com michaelverdi.com] *[http://blog.mozilla.org/verdi blog.mozilla.org/verdi]"" (view diff)
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lucasgonze what is PESOS
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Loqi http://indiewebcamp.com/pesos
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aaronpk hm I wonder what his email adderss is
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tantek.com edited /pesos (-18) "redirect" (view diff)
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tantek what is PESOS?
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Loqi PESOS is an acronym/abbreviation for Publish Elsewhere, Syndicate (to your) Own Site http://indiewebcamp.com/pesos
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ben_thatmust interesting I'll have to check in to that web starter kit tomorrow
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gregorlove.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:hwc-2014-08-27-chi.jpg]]""
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kevinmarks.com edited /Blogger (+405) "/* Issues */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Special:Log/upload () "uploaded a new version of "[[File:20140828-022724.jpg]]"" (view diff)
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gRegor` !tell Kartikprabhu Nice smile. :) http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club#Photos
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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bret http://www.sitepoint.com/css3-transitions-101/
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npdoty Loqi, what is PESETAS?
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bret npdoty http://weblinc.github.io/jquery.smoothState.js/advanced-implementation.html
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Loqi PESETAS is an acronym/abbreviation for Publish Elsewhere, Syndicate Everything To A Silo http://indiewebcamp.com/PESETAS
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gRegor` tantek: ^ Look! Chicago photo! We're real.
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:20140828-022724.jpg "bad rotation"
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2014-08-27-hwc-pdx.jpg]]""
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club (+94) "add pdx photo" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club (+14) "/* Photos */ resize and spacing" (view diff)
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gRegor` I like that Riker is still on the glass, aaronpk :) Or is that a normal ESRI thing?
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@marccanter4real RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @t: I'm tantek, my site is http://tantek.com (twitter.com/_/status/504819253661667328)
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aaronpk gRegor`: lol yeah we leave them up
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aaronpk and today Jennifer registered her domain! (no hosting set up yet) http://yourmom.io/
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gRegor` suhweet domain
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npdoty Google Web Fundamentals, https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/
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gRegor` surprised it wasn't taken
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aaronpk so were ALL OF US
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aaronpk we all pretty much said GET IT NOW OMG
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gRegor` Hahah
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aaronpk wrapping up here!
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ben_thatmust wish links on ?beta would all open new pages when logged in
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/504809229346021376/758056 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Tantek.com#need_help_with (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/504807152414760960/961661 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC-people (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/504806910848024576/758056 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-08-27 (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/504807152414760960/758056 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC-people (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/504806453115252736/758056 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-08-27 (webmention)
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kylewm !tell benwerd my replies to you still don't seem to show up! lemme know if I should stop bugging you about it https://kylewm.com/reply/2014/08/28/1/maybe-like-judd-apatow-movies-definitely
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm great photo KartikPrabhu, hahah
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KartikPrabhu :P
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: gRegor` left you a message 21 minutes ago: Nice smile. :) http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club#Photos
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gRegor` I didn't even look after taking the photo. Just noticed when I uploaded it.
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kylewm CalvinPrabhu
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gRegor` The relatively easy way I figured to upload photos directly from the phone is to add a link to the non-existent file on the wiki page (via desktop), then on the phone click the file link and it prompts for the upload.
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:hwc-2014-239-sf.jpg]]""
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verdi_ lucasgonze: http://5by5.tv/webahead/76
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club (+98) "/* Photos */ SF photo" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu verdi_ ooo that one is not my to-listen list :P
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KartikPrabhu s/not/on
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Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: verdi_ ooo that one is on my to-listen list :P
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verdi_ :)
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tantek michel_v, and lucasgonze add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC-people
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gonze.com edited /IRC_People (+120) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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gonze.com edited /IRC_People (-45) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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michaelverdi.com edited /IRC_People (+127) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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michaelverdi.com edited /events/2014-09-24-homebrew-website-club (+44) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-09-24-homebrew-website-club (+8) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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michaelverdi.com created /Template:verdi (+185) "Created page with "<span class="h-card" style="white-space:nowrap">{{sparkline|https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/499017446842310656/pryl_eia_400x400.jpeg}}[[User:Michaelverdi.com|Michael Verdi" target="_blank">User:Michaelverdi.com|Michael" target="_blank">https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/499017446842310656/pryl_eia_400x400.jpeg}}[[User:Michaelverdi.com|Michael Verdi]]..."" (view diff)
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michaelverdi.com edited /events/2014-09-24-homebrew-website-club (-33) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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@michaelverdi Totally having a blast at the Homebrew Website Club http://indiewebcamp.com/events/next-hwc (twitter.com/_/status/504834332645539840)
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tantek SF: benwerd just recovered fatberg.org - stay tuned for updates!
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michaelverdi.com edited /events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club (-28) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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michaelverdi.com edited /events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club (-2) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/504806910848024576/2788841 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-08-27 (webmention)
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@jmenglund03 @bali_maha Going through #withknown setup process now. Test tweet from http://known.jenniferenglund.net/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/504844227386552321)
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KartikPrabhu !tell npdoty I am also interested in having web (read HTML) versions of my papers (traditionally written in Latex) any good recommendations for writing in a common format (markdown?) and then exporting to HTML/Latex/PDF as need be?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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npdoty KartikPrabhu, yeah!
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Loqi npdoty: KartikPrabhu left you a message 39 seconds ago: I am also interested in having web (read HTML) versions of my papers (traditionally written in Latex) any good recommendations for writing in a common format (markdown?) and then exporting to HTML/Latex/PDF as need be?
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KartikPrabhu oh hi! :)
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npdoty I need to write up a blog post with the process I'm using now
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KartikPrabhu yes please :)
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KartikPrabhu I still write in Latex because my advisor/collaborators do but it pretty much sucks
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npdoty but the very short version is: write in Markdown, use Pandoc + citeproc to render to HTML and to LaTeX/PDF, a Makefile and a few custom filters to add bells and whistles
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npdoty happens to be in the channel because he's writing up an email/blog post about tonight's meeting
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KartikPrabhu tried pandoc about 3 years ago... wasn't that mature then I think
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KartikPrabhu does the math come out in MathML ?
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neuro` KartikPrabhu: some colleagues of mine are using it, seems more stable, but not sure about MathML.
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KartikPrabhu neuro`: I mainly do mathematical physics so papers are filled with a lot of math-stuff
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neuro` They use Pandoc with some other things to turn huge projcets code into ebooks so they can read the code on the beach.
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neuro` KartikPrabhu: this explains that, and the fact you're still using LateX
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KartikPrabhu MathJax is great but I would rather have math in MathML by defualt instead of latex soup
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KartikPrabhu neuro`: Latex is horrible. so many wasted hours getting the layout right!
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@fdevillamil Blog: The Personal Blog (about @fredwilson post). #blogging, #indieweb. http://t37.net/the-personal-blog.html (twitter.com/_/status/504868628173684739)
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neuro` KartikPrabhu: yeah, last time I used it was 11 years ago and I'm happy I don't have anymore, even though the rendering is awesome.
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npdoty I appreciate that, until my webmention-sending code is running automatically, I can reply to a post of aaronpk and then just paste my URL on his page and click a button
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npdoty aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 554 karma
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KartikPrabhu npdoty: webmention forms are brilliant! advantage of just using plain old HTMl + HTTP
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KartikPrabhu npdoty: afaik webmention forms were first used by adactio
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neuro` Unfortunately, too few sites support it.
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KartikPrabhu neuro`: the rendering can be fixed (and made much better) with CSS! :)
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npdoty KartikPrabhu, I also don't know how MathML works with regard to Pandoc
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npdoty ... but I can confirm that the project is mature and well-maintained now
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KartikPrabhu neuro`: you can make your own form like so: https://kartikprabhu.com/connection/webmentionsender ;)
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npdoty ... and Professor MacFarlane (in Philosophy at Berkeley) has been extremely responsive when I've filed bugs
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KartikPrabhu npdoty: good to know... will take it for a spin and await eagerly your blog post on it :)
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neuro` KartikPrabhu: was more thinking about the endpoint. I need to add that on my publishing tool too.
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npdoty ... and in general Pandoc is extensible via filters (which can run arbitrary code on an intermediate object form of any piece of writing) or just via piping tools
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KartikPrabhu neuro`: aah yes that is an issue. hopefully soon people will warm up to having their own sites
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neuro` KartikPrabhu: lovely, loving the form.
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KartikPrabhu neuro`: I should add more details on the page about how it parses for links and all tht
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KartikPrabhu npdoty: from pandoc homepage "Several different methods of rendering math in HTML are provided, including MathJax and translation to MathML" !!! oh man!
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npdoty there you go!
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KartikPrabhu jumps with excitement!
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npdoty I have noticed that when I go looking for whether a feature exists, jgm has often already considered or even implemented it
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KartikPrabhu npdoty: signs of a good library :)
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KartikPrabhu alrighty! must sleep... have more math+latex to write tomorrow :P
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KartikPrabhu thanks npdoty and neuro`
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KartikPrabhu night Loqi!
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Loqi yeah!
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neuro` Have a good night KartikPrabhu
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Loqi gute nacht!
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-09-10-homebrew-website-club (+34) "/* URLs */ add Minneapolis FB event" (view diff)
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tantek good evening neuro`! add yourself with an image to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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neuro` tantek: good morning. Sure will do.
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t37.net edited /IRC_People (+55) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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@fdevillamil @ookook https://github.com/converspace/webmention/blob/master/README.md (http://webmention.org) (twitter.com/_/status/504899336652996608)
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@ookook @fdevillamil we already had a discussion about webmention, havn’t we? (twitter.com/_/status/504899550101135361)
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@kevinmarks @ookook webmention is described at http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (twitter.com/_/status/504899752815648768)
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Loqi [mention] http://known.kevinmarks.com/2014/ookook-webmention-is-described-at-webmention linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (webmention)
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KevinMarks_ Linkslapping team
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neuro` KevinMarks_: we actually have a ticket aboutimplementing Webmention (been around for 1 year I think), and I'd love to see that moving forward.
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KevinMarks_ My post has good examples - http://known.kevinmarks.com/2014/the-personal-website-is-the-only-source-of-a-raw
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neuro` I love it.
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neuro` Known looks really awesome
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KevinMarks_ It's getting there. Learned a lot watching Liza set it up tonight
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colintedford.com edited /2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (+0) "/* Participants */ Correct # of participants again." (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (+7) "/* Official Guest List */ Fix link (UK -> Cambridge)" (view diff)
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eliemichel npdoty: Interested in your paper rendering workflow too. Made a parser to add TeX math to markdown files and ease layout
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eliemichel https://github.com/eliemichel/texdown
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eliemichel about a year ago
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eliemichel but I have problems with page cut when exporting it to pdf
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eliemichel I had problems with custom paragraphs too (such as theorem, or proof) that I wanted to add to markdown. my syntax is almost ugly
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eliemichel I think it would be nice to have a look at the format used in wikies
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@dhpaulspence Just watched recently posted talk by Tantek Çelik @t 'The once and future IndieWeb' - great presentation https://www.youtube.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/504928405243297792)
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@MogulAzam RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @lucas_gonze: usually web irc clients are horrible, but http:///irc/2014-08-27 is really light and clean (twitter.com/_/status/504950293394898944)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/kevinmarks/504806910848024576/504950293394898944 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-08-28 (webmention)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (-188) "/* Current setup & practices */ LiveJournal Cross-poster seems to be broken." (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (+260) "/* Former setup & practices */ POSSE to LJ" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme good morning
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eliemichel 'morning
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eliemichel (It's 4pm where I am =P)
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neuro` Good morning UGT
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ben_thatmustbeme what is everyone up to today?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "everyone up to today" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=everyone+up+to+today
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ben_thatmustbeme ugh..
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@yeca Un service pour gérer les pingbacks qui peut être utile á l'occasion : webmention.io (twitter.com/_/status/505001312182759424)
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miche.lv edited /IRC_People (+80) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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miche.lv created /User:Miche.lv (+16) "Created page with "Michel Valdrighi"" (view diff)
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michel_v my first connection using web sign-in :)
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michel_v I don't understand why the website's twitter app needs to read my timeline and the list of accounts that I follow though
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michel_v but maybe these privileges are by default and can't be renounced
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barnabywalters michel_v: welcome! I believe that’s the case, yes
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neuro` michel_v: github sign in is less permissive if it really bugs you
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michel_v oh it doesn't bug me, I was just surprised :)
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ben_thatmustbeme huh, that is surprising. I always log in with G+ so i never noticed
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ben_thatmustbeme also, welcome michel_v
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michel_v thanks. been lurking forever
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barnabywalters it’s not documented very much but you can also authenticate using GPG if you link to your public key with rel=pgpkey
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neuro` wow
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neuro` awesome
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michel_v nice, I'll try that someday. is the implementation opensource?
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ben_thatmustbeme theres really no code for it, just put a link on your page to it and there is a new option when you go to log in
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ben_thatmustbeme but on the other side, the code for being an indieauth server is open source
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barnabywalters michel_v: yep! it’s here: https://github.com/aaronpk/indieauth
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michel_v thanks
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ben_thatmustbeme michel_v are you just going to be using static pages or some software for your site?
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michel_v well I don't really have a website where others could log in anymore
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neuro` michel_v: been a while since you didn't blog
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michel_v I was childless the last time
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@zKooky Webmention a l'air cool comme protocole de notification pour de la décentralisation : https://github.com/converspace/webmention (twitter.com/_/status/505007293214511104)
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@DecentraliTweet RT @zKooky: Webmention a l'air cool comme protocole de notification pour de la décentralisation : https://github.com/converspace/webmention (twitter.com/_/status/505008382097776640)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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ben_thatmustbeme !tell KartikPrabhu I'm trying to webmention you but getting 'Source URL does not contain a link to the target URL' .. does it not like the fragmention? or does it not check the 'in-reply-to' from http://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2014/8/28/1/_
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm ben_thatmustbeme: just a guess, i bet Kartik is looking for u-in-reply-to instead of rel-in-reply-to
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ben_thatmustbeme oh crud, did i mess that up
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ben_thatmustbeme i really need to go over the mf on my site
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ben_thatmustbeme kylewm, so I kave seen u-in-reply-to p-in-reply-to for classes and rel="in-reply-to" which i use
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ben_thatmustbeme so confused
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kylewm ben_thatmustbeme: you didn't mess it up, rel=in-reply-to is fine. i'm just speculating that maybe kartik is expecting the other one
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kylewm since your reply-to is a simple url, you'll want to use class="u-in-reply-to" ... if it were a full reply context, that is when people use class="p-in-reply-to h-cite"
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kylewm u-* properties just mean that the property is parsed like a url
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ben_thatmustbeme oh i see, if i had a clip of the text i'm replying do, i tag that as p-in-reply-to
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ben_thatmustbeme its not "this text is in reply to X" its "this text is what i am replying to"
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barnabywalters ben_thatmustbeme: exactly, a /reply-context
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ben_thatmustbeme makes much more sense to me now
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tantek.com edited /webactions (+366) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Scott Gilbertson since ~2014-06-09" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme well in any case, that didn't work, still getting that same error
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ben_thatmustbeme according to the wiki he is using ronkyuu
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm thinking maybe it doesn't match because of the fragmention
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barnabywalters ben_thatmustbeme: you’re using PHP right? I think cURL has some issues with fragmention links — either stripping the fragment, or changing the escaping somehow
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aaronpk remember that ## is not actually valid
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barnabywalters my site doesn’t accept fragmention comments correctly, and I think the successful ones I’ve sent have been sent manually
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aaronpk the second one needs to be escaped for URL parsers to handle it
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ben_thatmustbeme i use php, but that shouldn't matter, I'm submitting the webmention on his site form too
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aaronpk https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/45bbb0f7dcf99920416f
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, so maybe if i change it to be in reply to with only 1 # (which the JS code on his site seems to support)
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ben_thatmustbeme but all his internal links using fragmentions use ##
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KevinMarks_ I am regretting the ##
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aaronpk but it's so iconic :)
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barnabywalters IMO # has basically zero overlap with existing @id behaviour, so there’s not really any reason to use ##
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barnabywalters existing services already overload single # (e.g. superfeedr with their CSS-selector-in-hash fragment subscriptions)
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aaronpk updated with node https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/45bbb0f7dcf99920416f
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mko I don't remember why fragmentations don't use a URL Param (i.e. '?frag=') instead of ##.
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aaronpk query strings are not for page-level selectors
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mko Fair enough.
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KevinMarks_ Because they need to be handled client side, which # is
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barnabywalters also ?frag would probably collide with some site somewhere. I don’t think query string param names are something you can standardise
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barnabywalters at least without ugly namespacing, e.g. all the ?utm_source rubbish
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mko True.
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ben_thatmustbeme i am thinking of dropping back entirely to single # the JS seems to handle it fine just about everywhere i've seen them
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KevinMarks_ The worry about overlap with ids in practice doesn't matter as a lot of the existing cases are accessing subheadings anyway (eg our wiki)
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gRegor` Why not hashbang for fragmentions? ;)
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aaronpk also IDs can't have spaces so as soon as you target more than one word you can't overlap
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ben_thatmustbeme plus you just add a second word and you are very much unlikely to have a conflict with an ID
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tantek the ## is very recognizable (good as iconic branding) and immediately gives a clue as to what it does
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mko Note: I wasn't questioning the usage. I just couldn't remember why.
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gRegor` It does? To non-technical people?
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gRegor` Re: "clue to what it does"
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KevinMarks_ But as it is an invalid url, it breaks a lot of code
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tantek from a UX perspective, it is a very nice minimal, recognizable, and implied meaningful addition to URLs
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tantek unlike all the alternatives for all the reasons people have given above already
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mko And what's wrong with a single hash? Just that you could potentially have collisions with a single word fragmentation and an ID?
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tantek as it is an invalid URL, it is safer to use and not have false positives
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tantek mko - what aaronpk said above
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mko I must have missed it. <heads to the logs>
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tantek literally the previous thing he said
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ben_thatmustbeme All in all, this isn't even the problem, I switched to a single # and KartikPrabhu's site is still telling me 'Source URL does not contain a link to the target URL'
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tantek in addition - it is quite new and different technology (no implied uniqueness etc.) and thus *not* overloading the single "#" which already is quite overloaded was a good idea.
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gRegor` Still using rel-in-reply-to, ben_thatmustbeme? Maybe he's not parsing that correctly.
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ben_thatmustbeme i added u-in-reply-to i don't think an extra rel= would cause that issue
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gRegor` ah
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm wondering if it doesn't like any # on it
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gRegor` You're using his form to send wm, or sending from your server?
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KevinMarks_ I think it is better seen as making fragment addressing actually useful
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek, the thing is, there is already an established, minimal, recognizable format to jump down to a specified part of a page, that happens to be #, the only real change is the plumbing of what it can find, fragmention becomes just an expansion of the existing and well known / supported #
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ben_thatmustbeme gRegor, i am using his form
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ben_thatmustbeme gRegor` i always miss your backtick
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gRegor` :)
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: but it's oddly fragile then, as some words will just not work on some pages because it will go their ID instead of first occurence
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tantek and oddly fragile tech is usually a sign you overloaded too much
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tantek also, it lends itself nicely to further extension
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KevinMarks_ But a single word is a degenerate case
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tantek KevinMarks: have used them a bunch of times
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tantek not as degenerate as you think - especially for rare words
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aaronpk hm I have never used a single-word fragmention yet
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tantek onto further extension - you could use ### to express *two* phrases, a fragmention from and to, to indicate a longer block like a blockquote, without having to fragmention all of its text
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KevinMarks_ If we make it highlight the phrase rather than the paragraph, that would encourage use of more words
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aaronpk I like the idea of something like ##from+text#to+text
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aaronpk then it could highlight evething in between
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tantek right
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KevinMarks_ That is like the paragraph transcluding idea
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tantek except too many "#" in text now thanks to hashtags
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tantek KevinMarks: not like - but rather the only thing we need to make <blockquote cite> work
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ben_thatmustbeme do we need to use added #'s or can we use some other char?
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KevinMarks_ If you use an ellipsis … to imply
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aaronpk oh right!
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ben_thatmustbeme #from..to
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ben_thatmustbeme er ...
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tantek and text has ellipsis too
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tantek too common
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tantek ###from+text##to+text
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tantek looks like a natural extension of ##
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gRegor` hash soup
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tantek or heck
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aaronpk why not just ##from##to ?
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tantek seems reasonable
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tantek and then the choice of ## over # makes even more sense
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KevinMarks_ I think #from+here…to+there is understandable
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ben_thatmustbeme except we are still on the issue of breaking tons of implementations are we not?
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tantek KevinMarks: it is understandable yes, but "…" is present in too much actual text
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: *tons* ? I don't think so
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ben_thatmustbeme okay, i overestimate
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KevinMarks_ There is the trickiness of do you want to highlight the elided bit
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tantek plus yes we should have said that if you want to include literal "#" in the fragmention you should URL-escape
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ben_thatmustbeme true, ... is common in text, but ## is possible in text too
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tantek so that's a bug to file *now* on every implementation
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: like these logs :)
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aaronpk oh dear
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tantek LOLOLOL
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek: exactly where i was going
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KevinMarks_ I use ellipsis a lot when tweeting quotes
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tantek hence why if you want to include a "#" in your fragmention, even today, you MUST URL-escape it
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ben_thatmustbeme i think #from+...+to is all you need
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tantek ^^^ KevinMarks please add that to the spec
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KevinMarks_ Except people are escaping the second leading # to make valid URLs
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aaronpk so a literal hash sign in the fragment is not a valid URL. is it really ok to redefine what a valid URL is?
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tantek KevinMarks: that doesn't contradict what I said
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ben_thatmustbeme the +...+ makes sure you break out of any ID matching, and its easy enough to say "if i don't find the text 'from ... to' then it must be a from-to fragmention format"
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tantek that's *before* the fragmention text
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tantek aaronpk - of course ok to extend URL - new URL spec in progress right now
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ben_thatmustbeme can a hashtag be used in an id?
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aaronpk so if # is ok in URLs, then this is how you'd reference ben's note above: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-08-28##%23from..to
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ben_thatmustbeme it shouldn't be
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ben_thatmustbeme nevermind, i just thought that through
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/dom.html#the-id-attribute
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aaronpk "IDs can consist of just digits, start with a digit, start with an underscore, consist of just punctuation, etc."
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KevinMarks_ Ids can have anything except spaces
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aaronpk guess that means you can have emoji IDs now
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ben_thatmustbeme so in theory id="#selfie" would mean that index.html##selfie would be confusing
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aaronpk that should make for some interesting source code
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ben_thatmustbeme id="💩"
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tantek.com edited /fragmention (+451) "/* URL encoding */ sub DL for space, +, #" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /fragmention (+1) "/* URL encoding */ >" (view diff)
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tantek KevinMarks: nm I added the bit about URL escaping # if it's in your literal fragmention like "Use my #hashtag" (should be: "Use+my+%23hashtag" )
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/fragmention#URL_encoding
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KevinMarks_ That's good.
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aaronpk the disclaimer on the proposed icon is my favorite
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gregorlove.com created /shebang (+475) "shebang/hashbang" (view diff)
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tantek we need to turn /fragmention into a proper spec so ti doesn't get badly regurgitated somewhere else
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gregorlove.com created /hashbang (+21) "r" (view diff)
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aaronpk oh man now I really want to see phrase highlighting!
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tantek interesting, seems like MediaWiki (or something in our config) doesn't like handling http://indiewebcamp.com/%23%21 propertly (which should go to a page with that name)
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tantek s/propertly/properly
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Loqi tantek meant to say: interesting, seems like MediaWiki (or something in our config) doesn't like handling http://indiewebcamp.com/%23%21 properly (which should go to a page with that name)
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ben_thatmustbeme so i just tested it to see. created a page with id="#selfie" and a page with "#💩" and yes, ##selfie will jump to that ID
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ben_thatmustbeme #💩 works too
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ben_thatmustbeme in chrome ##selfie jumps to the #selfie id, the emoji don't work
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KevinMarks_ Presumably thats being escaped invisibly in ff?
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KevinMarks_ Is that like ff turning spaces into ”°20 and chrome treating them as search keywords for Google
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tantek or turning spaces in URLs into + :)
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ben_thatmustbeme either way the ## is actually ambiguous as it could link to an ID that just starts with #
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tantek it can't per current URL defn because it is invalid
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tantek so not ambiguous at all, it is 100% error, which makes it perfect for adding functionality
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aaronpk that's actually a fantastic reason to keep ##
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KevinMarks_ I disagree. I think the endgame should be making I'd search a special case of text search
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ben_thatmustbeme why don't we just look at #+ we immediately break out and define the fact that we are not just searching for and ID
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aaronpk a slightly more ambitious plan
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ben_thatmustbeme the only way to define that we are not searching for an ID in the page is to use a space, so put it right up front
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ben_thatmustbeme if browsers are automatically assuming ## means search for an id starting with #
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ben_thatmustbeme is trying to find the spec that says that index.html##selfie is not a currently valid URL
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KevinMarks_ It's linked from /fragmention
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ben_thatmustbeme i see the ABNF does not allow it. The regex they give in Appendix B. does allow it however.
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm guessing many implementors went to the regex first, which would explain why things that should not work (according to the RFC) do work
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kylewm aaronpk: barnabywalters: it looks like quill is sending "in_reply_to" and shrewdness "in-reply-to" arguments for micropub. is one right or better to just accept both?
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aaronpk oh crap I think I have a pending push that will change that
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aaronpk I believe hyphens are correct
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@gasull .@SandstormIO, the personal cloud Platform reaches crowdfunding goal on Indiegogo https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sandstorm-io-personal-cloud-platform/x/5184124 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/505043891830398976)
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kylewm aaronpk: ok cool! that means i don't have to change my code :)
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@lucas_gonze Met Michael Verdi by accident last night, at the IndieWeb meetup at Mozilla HQ. (twitter.com/_/status/505047985055465472)
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aaronpk this is kind of neat. I got a webmention from an email :) http://aaronparecki.com/events/2014/08/27/1/homebrew-website-club
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aaronpk npdoty++
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Loqi npdoty has 4 karma
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emmak are those actual emails or a blog styled to look like email?
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aaronpk I can't remember, it's confusing
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aaronpk I think both
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aaronpk somehow
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ben_thatmustbeme what is npdoty
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "npdoty" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=npdoty
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aaronpk who is npdoty?
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aaronpk oh well https://npdoty.name/
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KartikPrabhu hi Loqi!
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 3 hours, 22 minutes ago: I'm trying to webmention you but getting 'Source URL does not contain a link to the target URL' .. does it not like the fragmention? or does it not check the 'in-reply-to' from http://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2014/8/28/1/_
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KartikPrabhu ben_thatmustbeme: must have messed up my webmention code somehow will check
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@ePirat @lukasepple Gibt doch webmention stuff und z.b. pants ist ja ein toller ansatz (twitter.com/_/status/505065418235838464)
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KartikPrabhu ben_thatmustbeme: yeah that is most definitely some mess up on my part... will look into it this evening.
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neuro` KartikPrabhu: so did you give Pandoc a try?
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KartikPrabhu aah not yet that is also this evening project....
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KartikPrabhu jeez so much to do
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tantek.com edited /email (+14) "move TOC down to make POSSE section more readable" (view diff)
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tantek__ emmak yes npdoty is POSSEing to /email and has been since 2009!
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tantek.com created /npdoty (+30) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /User:Npdoty.name (+11) "dfn" (view diff)
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tantek__ who is npdoty
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tantek__ what is npdoty?
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Loqi http://indiewebcamp.com/npdoty
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kylewm neuro`: does your entry on /irc-people indicate two different nicks?
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kylewm aaronpk: I just showed off your sleep metrics post to a co-worker who got a jawbone, we were all surprised how little you sleep :)
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tantek_1 tries
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jgarber Hello! I'm working on markup for displaying comments on my site (via webmention!) and am a bit confused about when (or if) to mark up a comment with h-entry and/or h-cite and/or some sort of in-reply-to.
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Loqi jgarber: ShaneHudson left you a message 2 weeks, 6 days ago: I saw you're plugin, it looks very good but there appears to be no recieving/storing? I would rather not use an external service for it
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jgarber I collected a handful of examples of how others are marking up their comments: https://gist.github.com/jgarber623/efe5ab4fb1e61e0fdbb6
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aaronpk_ kylewm: lol, really?
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jgarber Does anyone have advice or suggestions? I've read through the wiki and am still a bit fuzzy on the relationship between h-entry and h-cite.
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aaronpk_ I guess I usually sleep <7 hrs most nights and sometimes catch up on weekends by getting 8
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aaronpk_ oh... Last couple nights have been short it looks like
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tantek_1 aaronpk it looks like even though I quit FF and relaunched, the IRC client/server on your side is holding onto "tantek_" in the channel.
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jgarber (Or is that question more appropriate in #microformats?)
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kylewm jgarber: I followed this for my implementation http://indiewebcamp.com/comments-presentation#How_to_markup
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kylewm "p-comment h-cite"
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kylewm that way, the "comment" property for your artice has a list of comment objects (of type h-cite)
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jgarber kylewm: Oh, nice. Thanks! I hadn't come across this page on the wiki yet.
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jgarber This wiki page pretty much explains everything. I should've known all my questions would've been answered and thoroughly documented.
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kylewm interesting that most of the examples you collected use "p-comment h-entry"!
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sixtwothree.org edited /IRC_People (+91) "/* Nicknames */ Add jgarber to IRC nicknames." (view diff)
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tantek_1 does going to sleep and waking up work?
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tantek_1 wow
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@_amz3_ @nephthys @Nouweo but je préfère le #BleedingEdge #indieweb #unhosted #netart... (twitter.com/_/status/505076320012107776)
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tantek__ kylewm unsurprising as the first uf2 attempt at marking up comments was p-comment h-entry. It wasn't until h-cite solidified a bit and we started making the distinction between original and copy.
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tantek__ That we switched to "p-comment h-cite"
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tantek__ aaronpk - it takes just a few seconds (if that) for me to resume in IRC via the web IRC log UI after waking up from sleep (without having to explicitly rejoin on my end). Much faster than the "native" Mac Colloquy. Amazing.
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tantek on Mac Colloquy it can take many many seconds sometimes longer than a minute to reconnect / rejoin a server.
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tantek.com edited /fragmention (+211) "/* Proposed icon */ float it, check out noun project for more ideas" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /fragmention (-7) "/* Proposed icon */" (view diff)
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sixtwothree.org created /User:Sixtwothree.org (+909) "Create user page for myself." (view diff)
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tantek jgarber++
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Loqi jgarber has 1 karma
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jgarber One big point on the board! Thanks, tantek!
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tantek hey that's how it starts ;)
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tantek jgarber, and awesome user page start! now what's the next most-important-to-you thing that you want to add to or improve on your website?
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jgarber Good question! I'm still polishing the webmention stuff and look to open source webmention.sixtwothree.org as soon as I make sure there's nothing private in the repo.
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jgarber I have some ideas about how I'd want to automatically send webmentions when I write something new, I want to add a couple sections for content types (Links, Notes, etc.)... the list goes on...
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kylewm.com edited /website-analytics (+163) "/* Piwik */ added myself as someone running piwik" (view diff)
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tantek jgarber: cool! now add those items to a "Working On" section on your user page :)
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kylewm so Dave Winer's facebook/wordpress app claims to be able to edit posts on both platforms, but Facebook's API explicitly says you can't https://developers.facebook.com/docs/graph-api/reference/v2.1/post##You+can't+update
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kylewm anybody know how he does it?
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kylewm OK I asked him directly https://kylewm.com/reply/2014/08/28/2/very-interesting-project-i-m-curious
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tantek ok kylewm - how did you POSSE your reply as a comment to the Disqus on his post?!?
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kylewm copy pasta :(
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kylewm adding an feature request to Bridgy right now though :)
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tantek ah yes, the tried and true "manual" technique
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tantek nice!
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tantek while you're there
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tantek kylewm: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-08-27/line/1409163311923
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kylewm good call tantek!! that's totally in the same wheelhouse
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tantek reminder to folks: propose sessions (e.g. indieweb related) for MozFest by tomorrow! http://2014.mozillafestival.org/propose/
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kylewm tantek: one roadblock, I know snarfed is starting to get a little wary of adding new nascar buttons to the current bridgy UI (which is already pretty daunting for noobs)
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tantek I can help with the UI design aspect
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kylewm that would be SO GREAT, will definitely reach out to you when I/we have some concrete ideas
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bret ls
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bret oops
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kylewm . .. indieweb/ projects/ news/
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sixtwothree.org edited /User:Sixtwothree.org (+531) "Add Working On section per Tantek's suggestion in IRC" (view diff)
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neuro` kylewm: it does (and I didn't add it myself).
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-09-10-homebrew-website-club (-13) "/* Where */ Minneapolis time & place confirmed" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-09-10-homebrew-website-club (+755) "/* Where */ SF location confirmed" (view diff)
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kylewm oh wow, the answer is that facebook allows editing posts (now?) and just hasn't documented it yet
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neuro` kylewm: I think it's been possible for a while now
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KevinMarks__ what happened to their commitment to documented api roadmap?
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@gasull I'd love to see @torproject hidden services on @SandstormIO! https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sandstorm-io-personal-cloud-platform/x/5184124 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/505100303667331074)
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neuro` KevinMarks__: did they commit to that o_O
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KevinMarks__ "move fast with stable infra"
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neuro` If it means not breaking the existing, that's a great step forward.
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neuro` I wish AWS did that.
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kylewm needs to read up on the API changes 2.0 -> 2.1
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KevinMarks__ finds that coinbase now has profiles https://coinbase.com/kevinmarks
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kylewm.com edited /IRC_People (+89) "/* Nicknames */ split neuro` and fdevillamil into two entries" (view diff)
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lucasgonze I updated and debugged my indie URL shortener.
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lucasgonze Short URL for it: http://s.gonze.com
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tantek lucasgonze++ for writing and sharing an awesome minimal indie URL shortener at Homebrew Website Club last night!
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Loqi lucasgonze has 1 karma
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tantek KevinMarks: how does coinbase work? can you create "pay me on coinbase" URLs? If so, can you add it to http://indiewebcamp.com/payment ?
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tantek what is coinbase?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "coinbase" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=coinbase
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-09-10-homebrew-website-club (+199) "/* Notes */ add notes about Lucas's URL shortener" (view diff)
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@Bali_Maha @gr33ndata @withknown syndication #indieweb thingie, i am beta-testing http://blog.mahabali.me/blog/educational-technology-2/excited-about-known-withknown/ (twitter.com/_/status/505128234925961216)
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gRegor` Can lucasgonze time travel, tantek? :)
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tantek gRegor`: he had s.gonze.com working last night
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gRegor` Yeah. You edited 9/10 event though?
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tantek argh
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-09-10-homebrew-website-club () "(-975) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Tantek.com|Tantek.com]] ([[User talk:Tantek.com|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:Metafluff.com|Metafluff.com]]" (view diff)
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tantek oh darn it that reverting ALL My changes to 09-10 :(
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tantek where's my Undo button for Revert? (cc: tommorris - who gets all MediaWiki complaints)
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gregorlove.com edited /events/next-hwc (+0) "next" (view diff)
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tantek oh great, now the home page links to my screwup :/
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club (+199) "/* Notes */ add notes about Lucas's URL shortener" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Main_Page (+0) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ next" (view diff)
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gRegor` tantek: You can still go back and "edit" a past revision. Is that what you mean?
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-09-10-homebrew-website-club (+776) "Undo revision 12757 by [[Special:Contributions/Tantek.com|Tantek.com]] ([[User talk:Tantek.com|talk]]) (as in redo all but the errant future notes)" (view diff)
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tantek I'm really liking the new more minimal and more frequently used links/pages sidebar
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tantek It's been VERY useful when showing indiewebcamp.com to new people and encouraging them to get involved
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tantek I'm looking forward to when the ?beta is no longer beta, and collapsing the "Discuss" vs. "Chat Log" links down to just one "Discussion Forum"
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aaronpk don't call it a forum please
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tantek lol
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tantek but that's what new people look for!
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tantek "forum" is more human friendly than "IRC"
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gregorlove.com edited /Events (-1) "moving 8/27 to past" (view diff)
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aaronpk maybe I'm old fashioned, but a forum is a particular type of website that has categories of threaded discussions
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tantek we're just a single threaded forum, with one category, "indieweb"
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aaronpk lol
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tantek aaronpk, it's like that comparison that caseorganic made between the activitystreams mailing list archive of *one message* vs. *one page* of our IRC log
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aaronpk now it'll be an even prettier screenshot!
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tantek YES
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tantek needs to be updated :)
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tantek oh and with the new "Join " button
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gRegor` /events/2014-08-27-homebrew-website-club emojis don't show for me in Chrome (boxes) but do in Firefox.
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aaronpk it's a chrome thing
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tantek file a bug against Chrome :P
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aaronpk emoji licensing is weird
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gRegor` Looks kinda odd on Firefox with the line through them too :)
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tantek wat - it's just using the font in the OS
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gRegor` Not a big fan of emoji so won't be filing anytime soon ;)
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tantek requires OSX 10.7+ too I noticed. Doesn't show on OSX 10.6.x.
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aaronpk the problem is the artwork is all copyright the respective platform, so each platform has to create their own version of the emoji based on the text description
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aaronpk can't remember the reason chrome doesn't (or can't) use the OSX default emoji
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tantek aaronpk - someone will make an open source emoji web font
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tantek it's inevitable
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tantek likely with SVG even
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aaronpk that does seem quite likely
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aaronpk https://github.com/Genshin/PhantomOpenEmoji
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gRegor` Do these emojis mean the HWC slogan is "Write, Link, Hammer time!"? I hope so.
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tantek btw back to comparing IRC and "FORUMS"
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tantek we can do a similar screenshot comparing our logs to say https://www.loomio.org/g/7hU5fK8O/diaspora-community-federation-discussion
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tantek :P
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aaronpk heh
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tantek wait - so which federation thread did you mean? how are they different again?
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aaronpk especially the "Do we need valid SSL certificates?" thread last updated 2 years ago
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tantek a small minority of folks put too much value into such hierarchy, when for the most part (80/20) you need no such hierarchy
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tantek it's basically a huge waste of time that just slows down discussion
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tantek gunks the the UX
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tantek s/the the/up the
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Loqi tantek meant to say: gunks up the UX
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tantek but classic dev-based over-design of IA
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aaronpk of course the flip side is it's virtually impossible to discover anything in the IRC logs. it's purely useful for discussion, not so much discoverability
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aaronpk that's why it's so important to capture discussions into wiki pages asap
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tantek same kind of bad-think that causes schema-org hierarchy nonsense and volcanoes with fax machines
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tantek no! it's a *feature* that it's *obviously* virtually impossible to discover anything in the IRC logs
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tantek so people won't even pretend to try
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tantek (unlike email archives)
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tantek and thus are motivated to actually capture anything relevant on the wiki
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tantek you vote with your wiki edits
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tantek if you think something important was said in IRC, capture it on the wiki
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tantek otherwise it must not have been important
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tantek which is the *actual* truth for *all* discussion platforms, including email, PHP forumware, etc.
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bear in an old community I was in (old as in 20 yrs ago) - we used to have a !bookmark command that allowed us to flag discussions in IRC for later rollup to documentation or website
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KevinMarks__ google drop s rel-author http://searchengineland.com/goodbye-google-authorship-201975
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tantek.com edited /Diaspora (+707) "add criticism / monoculture based on comment on diaspora federation forum, no current indieweb examples" (view diff)
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tantek KevinMarks: "author photos did not work well with the limited screen space and bandwidth of mobile" - I call bullshit. Disproof exhibit A: our logs.
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KevinMarks__ exactly
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rascul i liked google authorship
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KevinMarks__ I think the real failure was the silo tax meaning you had to have G+ profile in your rel-me chain
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tantek why don't they just drop rich snippets completely then?
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aaronpk I liked it too :(
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aaronpk but yeah the G+ requirement was super annoying
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tantek yeah - the artificial requirement of G+ was F'd
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KevinMarks__ and they are going to show G+ profile pics for posts from there
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KevinMarks__ if they're in your cicles
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tantek oh man! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Discontinued_Google_services
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rascul not surprising that they killed it though
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tantek.com edited /Google (+84) "/* Dead Services */ for more see dedicated wikipedia page to this phenomenon" (view diff)
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KevinMarks__ they history is wrong there too - we had rel-me in google profiles in 2007
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tantek well at least this means the Google dumb query param alternative is also dead
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aaronpk oh yeah thank goodness, that was ridiculous
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tantek see Google? that's what you get for proposing a dumb extension to a standard, and then limiting that standard's functionality to links to your own damn silo.
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tantek no matter, let's just keep moving forward with /authorship
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tantek awesome that we *already* have confirmed venues for all 2014-09-10 HWC locations!
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tantek and Minneapolis has even already posted an event for it (even if it is on FB)
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tantek !tell benwerd could you post an indie event and FB POSSE copy for http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-09-10-homebrew-website-club I know you can't make it yourself but an indie event would be great to have anyway!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KevinMarks__ whats the dumb query param alternative?
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tantek I have a link for that
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tantek http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-author#query_parameter_alternative
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tantek someone want to send all the Google rel=author pages/videos to the archivebot before they all disappear?
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KevinMarks__ ah right. that is dumb
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tantek assuming Google prefers to delete history than keep it around and provide explanatory context
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tantek I'm just assuming that large corporations are Orwellian by default.
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KevinMarks__ yep. like they did with social graph api
snarfed joined the channel
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tantek I've already forgotten how to summon archivebot - commands in some IRC channel I forgot.
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tantek http://archiveteam.org/index.php?title=ArchiveBot