2014-08-28 UTC
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# 00:04 Loqi KartikPrabhu: tantek left you a message 4 hours, 48 minutes ago: were you able to reach out to the usual Chicago hopefuls? Mari and I forget the other person's name that has @-replied a bunch on Twitter about Chicago HWC
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# 00:12 Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
# 00:12 aaronpk so how long until I take off the "beta" sticker from the irc web chat? :)
# 00:13 aaronpk maybe after I get indieauth sign-in to work with it?
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# 00:15 gRegor` Welcome, pitchdesignunion!
# 00:15 pitchdesignunion what is web mention
# 00:16 pitchdesignunion what is webmention
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# 01:01 tantek so far it's just me and lucasgonze here @MozSF
# 01:01 Loqi kylewm: tantek left you a message on 8/27 at 12:15am: one more (hopefully minor this time) Bridgy Publish to FB request. Could I have it say "Originally published at: PostPermalinkURL" instead of "(PostPermalinkURL)" at end of FB POSSE copy? Trying for more human-friendly (paren syntax was intended for Twitter where chars are tight).
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# 01:25 benwerd (SF is mostly looking at Twitter Analytics and noting how little links actually get clicked)
# 01:26 aaronpk working on getting micropub working for his static site so other apps can post to his site
# 01:26 aaronpk this past week got continuous integration tests working
# 01:27 aaronpk next step is getting post templates working for the micropub client
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# 01:33 aaronpk_web hi from the web page!
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# 01:37 tantek KevinMarks: is trying to get his latest noterlive working on Heroku, some node nightmare.
# 01:38 aaronpk next things: get side comments working on his site (paragraph level comments)
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# 01:39 tantek SF: Michael Verdi, works at Mozilla, I blog sometimes at michaelverdi.com
# 01:41 tantek SF: Liza Sperling, here with KevinMarks, her first time, lizasperling.com a blogger site and is a noob, here to learn
# 01:42 tantek … work at a place called Known, and indieweb startup
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# 01:42 aaronpk tom: use case is publishing early drafts of his book and letting people comment on paragraphs
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# 01:44 aaronpk has been writing academic papers, wants them to be on the web rather than sending PDFs around
# 01:44 webbenwerd aaronpk: I now believe there are at least four of you
# 01:45 aaronpk wants a workflow to be able to write on the web, then export PDFs for the people who still require that
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# 01:47 aaronpk (and yes these papers are actually on his personal website!)
# 01:48 tantek SF: Lucas made a URL shortener for himself on his own site
# 01:49 aaronpk npdoty: interested in privacy implications and pseudonym usage in the indieweb
# 01:49 benwerd aaronpk: feature request - links opening in a new window ;)
# 01:49 aaronpk benwerd: lol yeah snarfed already sent a PR foer that :)
# 01:49 tantek … Lucas wrote the entire thing during Writing Hour, sitting here!
# 01:50 tantek … Lucas: uses a .htaccess file for the "storage" of the "IDs" and the destination URLs
# 01:50 tantek … that htaccess file lives on its own subdomain s.gonze.com so it can use a dedicated htaccess
# 01:51 aaronpk ...separating the reading from the writing so that if you follow all the same people from two pseudonyms you don't need to duplicate data
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# 01:51 tantek … make a dedicate domain that supports htaccess
# 01:51 tantek … go to random.org that generates good random numbers
# 01:51 tantek … use the page to generate random strings integers, upper/lower letters, create 10k
# 01:52 tantek … create an htaccess file using an awk script
# 01:52 tantek … to convert each random number to a Rewrite rule
# 01:52 aaronpk ... in a web development course on epicodus learning ruby on rails, 8 weeks into it
# 01:52 tantek … used 10k random strings to avoid sequential crawling
# 01:53 aaronpk ... first experience doing anything on the web, studied architecture at UO and now back in PDX
# 01:53 aaronpk ... was following indiewebcamp for 2 years and now ready to dive in
# 01:54 aaronpk ... uses a private twitter account that nobody follows to post quick thoughts, but wants to move those to his own place
# 01:54 aaronpk ... has had his own domain/hosting since middle school
# 01:55 aaronpk ... next step is building a private twitter clone in ruby on rails for private notes
# 01:55 aaronpk ... has a mac mini at home with a raspberry pi running openvpn, wants to run his private server there so it's not even on the internet
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# 01:55 tantek SF: benwerd - got a need help with thing, posting audio
# 01:55 gRegor-phone Hello, hello
# 01:56 Loqi gRegor-phone: tantek left you a message on 3/25 at 12:45am: it's not a DRY violation if you only have one feed.html page which has your latest posts, *instead of* your home page. XML/RDF feeds are typically DRY violations because they *DUPLICATE* what's already on your home page.
# 01:56 Loqi gRegor-phone: bret left you a message 3 weeks, 4 days ago: just updated the next HWC wiki page, can you look to make sure chicago details look right?
# 01:56 tantek … on desktop it works. on mobile it either doesn't work or crashes
# 01:56 tantek … trying to figure out how to let people upload audio, on a mobile device, on a web page
# 01:56 gRegor-phone Whoa. what's with the ancient tells?
# 01:57 gRegor-phone I haven't used this nick before, that I can remember
# 01:57 tantek … can't use Chrome because Chrome strips the file extension of an audio file when it uploads
# 01:58 gRegor-phone just testing out beta chat in Nexus 4 Chrome. Works like a charm.
# 01:58 aaronpk ...writer by profession, works on docs at symantec in eugene
# 01:58 tantek gRegor - possible that some message(s) were left for gRegor (without a backtick)
# 01:59 npdoty following multiple scribes writing in parallel is awesome/hard
# 01:59 aaronpk ... was involved in academia in the past, who were some of the first people to take advantage of the web
# 01:59 gRegor-phone interesting if Loqi only does too* matching.
# 01:59 aaronpk ... the Labyrinth, a compliation of research and teaching tools
# 02:00 gRegor-phone s/too/foo/
# 02:00 Loqi gRegor-phone meant to say: interesting if Loqi only does foo* matching.
# 02:00 aaronpk ... the Web was a real gift for people to be able show students things that were otherwise very inaccessible (microfishe, or physical items in locked cases)
# 02:01 aaronpk ... in the past year has been trying to put some things together for herself
# 02:01 tantek SF: Liza tried to sign in to the wiki with lizasperling.com and G+ and it gave an error
# 02:01 aaronpk ... has been going to writethedocs conference and meetups in pdx
# 02:02 aaronpk ... has her own stuff she wants to write about, first step is needs a blog
# 02:03 aaronpk ... would rather build up a blog from scratch. also because she wants to develop top-of-the-stack skills, background is in raw HTML/CSS from a while ago.
# 02:06 tantek SF: Michael Verdi - needs help with WordPress, seems to get hacked a lot
# 02:06 tantek … is tired of it, doesn't want to deal with it
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# 02:08 aaronpk ... current domain is castersblues.com but uses it mostly just for a cool email address
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# 02:08 tantek SF: Michael Verdi - had a pharmahack problem due to an old wordpress plugin
# 02:09 tantek SF: Michael Verdi - I like my Mozilla blog because other people take care of it
# 02:09 npdoty aaronpk, in the Web client, only one word that follows a "/me" seems to actually make it to the channel
# 02:10 tantek SF: Lucas - think about - embrace the transient nature of the web
# 02:11 tantek SF: KevinMarks - there are tools that will help you turn your site in just a set of static pages if you want to freeze a site
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# 02:14 npdoty a theme in the PDX discussions is that we all should be blogging about our work in progress, because the others would be interested in reading about it, even if it's not finished yet
# 02:15 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 02:15 benwerd blogging also seems to have a disproportionate community effect - blog posts seem to get a lot of attention, are reshared, get lots of thoughtful replies, etc
# 02:16 aaronpk KevinMarks__: weird... will look at that later... I thought it was checking intermediate redirects for matches too
# 02:16 benwerd If any of you are Lift users, there's a "write 500 words a day" challenge - I'm using that to blog. Totally think you all should join me.
# 02:16 tantek SF: Michael Verdi is using ftp to edit his htaccess file so he can enable his WordPress to edit
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# 02:22 benwerd kylewm: it's an app that aims to help you build good habits. I'm a fan.
# 02:23 aaronpk bret talking about using private tumblor blogs as a backup of content
# 02:23 npdoty I still don't fully understand this Google Web Starter Kit, but it does sound nice (like: "Reload the browser in real-time anytime an edit is made without the need for an extension.")
# 02:23 tantek aaronpk - why private? I use tantek.tumblr.com as a public backup of other silo posts - /PESETAS style
# 02:24 tantek npdoty - feel free to add questions to the wiki page on Web Starter Kit
# 02:24 lucasgonze but they don't expect you to ever pull from them again after your intial one
# 02:24 tantek SF: Michael Verdi was able to update his htaccess to allow editing his WordPress and added a rel=me link and successfully logged into the wiki!
# 02:29 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 02:30 gRegor` tantek: ^ Look! Chicago photo! We're real.
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# 02:34 gRegor` I like that Riker is still on the glass, aaronpk :) Or is that a normal ESRI thing?
# 02:35 gRegor` suhweet domain
# 02:35 gRegor` surprised it wasn't taken
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# 02:50 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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# 02:52 gRegor` I didn't even look after taking the photo. Just noticed when I uploaded it.
# 02:54 gRegor` The relatively easy way I figured to upload photos directly from the phone is to add a link to the non-existent file on the wiki page (via desktop), then on the phone click the file link and it prompts for the upload.
# 03:03 Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: verdi_ ooo that one is on my to-listen list :P
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# 03:40 tantek SF: benwerd just recovered fatberg.org - stay tuned for updates!
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# 05:44 KartikPrabhu !tell npdoty I am also interested in having web (read HTML) versions of my papers (traditionally written in Latex) any good recommendations for writing in a common format (markdown?) and then exporting to HTML/Latex/PDF as need be?
# 05:44 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 05:45 Loqi npdoty: KartikPrabhu left you a message 39 seconds ago: I am also interested in having web (read HTML) versions of my papers (traditionally written in Latex) any good recommendations for writing in a common format (markdown?) and then exporting to HTML/Latex/PDF as need be?
# 05:45 npdoty I need to write up a blog post with the process I'm using now
# 05:45 KartikPrabhu I still write in Latex because my advisor/collaborators do but it pretty much sucks
# 05:46 npdoty but the very short version is: write in Markdown, use Pandoc + citeproc to render to HTML and to LaTeX/PDF, a Makefile and a few custom filters to add bells and whistles
# 05:46 npdoty happens to be in the channel because he's writing up an email/blog post about tonight's meeting
# 05:48 neuro` KartikPrabhu: some colleagues of mine are using it, seems more stable, but not sure about MathML.
# 05:49 KartikPrabhu neuro`: I mainly do mathematical physics so papers are filled with a lot of math-stuff
# 05:49 neuro` They use Pandoc with some other things to turn huge projcets code into ebooks so they can read the code on the beach.
# 05:49 neuro` KartikPrabhu: this explains that, and the fact you're still using LateX
# 05:49 KartikPrabhu MathJax is great but I would rather have math in MathML by defualt instead of latex soup
# 05:50 KartikPrabhu neuro`: Latex is horrible. so many wasted hours getting the layout right!
# 05:51 neuro` KartikPrabhu: yeah, last time I used it was 11 years ago and I'm happy I don't have anymore, even though the rendering is awesome.
# 05:51 npdoty I appreciate that, until my webmention-sending code is running automatically, I can reply to a post of aaronpk and then just paste my URL on his page and click a button
# 05:52 KartikPrabhu npdoty: webmention forms are brilliant! advantage of just using plain old HTMl + HTTP
# 05:52 KartikPrabhu neuro`: the rendering can be fixed (and made much better) with CSS! :)
# 05:53 npdoty KartikPrabhu, I also don't know how MathML works with regard to Pandoc
# 05:53 npdoty ... but I can confirm that the project is mature and well-maintained now
# 05:53 npdoty ... and Professor MacFarlane (in Philosophy at Berkeley) has been extremely responsive when I've filed bugs
# 05:54 KartikPrabhu npdoty: good to know... will take it for a spin and await eagerly your blog post on it :)
# 05:54 neuro` KartikPrabhu: was more thinking about the endpoint. I need to add that on my publishing tool too.
# 05:54 npdoty ... and in general Pandoc is extensible via filters (which can run arbitrary code on an intermediate object form of any piece of writing) or just via piping tools
# 05:54 KartikPrabhu neuro`: aah yes that is an issue. hopefully soon people will warm up to having their own sites
# 05:55 KartikPrabhu neuro`: I should add more details on the page about how it parses for links and all tht
# 05:57 KartikPrabhu npdoty: from pandoc homepage "Several different methods of rendering math in HTML are provided, including MathJax and translation to MathML" !!! oh man!
# 05:58 npdoty I have noticed that when I go looking for whether a feature exists, jgm has often already considered or even implemented it
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# 07:57 neuro` KevinMarks_: we actually have a ticket aboutimplementing Webmention (been around for 1 year I think), and I'd love to see that moving forward.
# 08:00 KevinMarks_ It's getting there. Learned a lot watching Liza set it up tonight
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# 08:47 eliemichel npdoty: Interested in your paper rendering workflow too. Made a parser to add TeX math to markdown files and ease layout
# 08:47 eliemichel about a year ago
# 08:48 eliemichel but I have problems with page cut when exporting it to pdf
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# 08:57 eliemichel I had problems with custom paragraphs too (such as theorem, or proof) that I wanted to add to markdown. my syntax is almost ugly
# 08:58 eliemichel I think it would be nice to have a look at the format used in wikies
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# 14:01 eliemichel (It's 4pm where I am =P)
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# 14:41 michel_v I don't understand why the website's twitter app needs to read my timeline and the list of accounts that I follow though
# 14:41 michel_v but maybe these privileges are by default and can't be renounced
# 14:43 neuro` michel_v: github sign in is less permissive if it really bugs you
# 14:45 barnabywalters it’s not documented very much but you can also authenticate using GPG if you link to your public key with rel=pgpkey
# 14:48 michel_v nice, I'll try that someday. is the implementation opensource?
# 14:49 ben_thatmustbeme theres really no code for it, just put a link on your page to it and there is a new option when you go to log in
# 14:55 michel_v well I don't really have a website where others could log in anymore
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# 15:09 Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
# 15:17 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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# 15:35 kylewm ben_thatmustbeme: just a guess, i bet Kartik is looking for u-in-reply-to instead of rel-in-reply-to
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# 15:43 ben_thatmustbeme kylewm, so I kave seen u-in-reply-to p-in-reply-to for classes and rel="in-reply-to" which i use
# 15:44 kylewm ben_thatmustbeme: you didn't mess it up, rel=in-reply-to is fine. i'm just speculating that maybe kartik is expecting the other one
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# 15:45 kylewm since your reply-to is a simple url, you'll want to use class="u-in-reply-to" ... if it were a full reply context, that is when people use class="p-in-reply-to h-cite"
# 15:45 kylewm u-* properties just mean that the property is parsed like a url
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# 15:57 barnabywalters ben_thatmustbeme: you’re using PHP right? I think cURL has some issues with fragmention links — either stripping the fragment, or changing the escaping somehow
# 15:58 barnabywalters my site doesn’t accept fragmention comments correctly, and I think the successful ones I’ve sent have been sent manually
# 15:58 aaronpk the second one needs to be escaped for URL parsers to handle it
# 15:58 ben_thatmustbeme i use php, but that shouldn't matter, I'm submitting the webmention on his site form too
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# 16:07 ben_thatmustbeme hmm, so maybe if i change it to be in reply to with only 1 # (which the JS code on his site seems to support)
# 16:10 barnabywalters IMO # has basically zero overlap with existing @id behaviour, so there’s not really any reason to use ##
# 16:10 barnabywalters existing services already overload single # (e.g. superfeedr with their CSS-selector-in-hash fragment subscriptions)
# 16:10 mko I don't remember why fragmentations don't use a URL Param (i.e. '?frag=') instead of ##.
# 16:12 barnabywalters also ?frag would probably collide with some site somewhere. I don’t think query string param names are something you can standardise
# 16:12 ben_thatmustbeme i am thinking of dropping back entirely to single # the JS seems to handle it fine just about everywhere i've seen them
# 16:13 KevinMarks_ The worry about overlap with ids in practice doesn't matter as a lot of the existing cases are accessing subheadings anyway (eg our wiki)
# 16:13 gRegor` Why not hashbang for fragmentions? ;)
# 16:13 aaronpk also IDs can't have spaces so as soon as you target more than one word you can't overlap
# 16:13 ben_thatmustbeme plus you just add a second word and you are very much unlikely to have a conflict with an ID
# 16:14 tantek the ## is very recognizable (good as iconic branding) and immediately gives a clue as to what it does
# 16:14 mko Note: I wasn't questioning the usage. I just couldn't remember why.
# 16:14 gRegor` It does? To non-technical people?
# 16:14 gRegor` Re: "clue to what it does"
# 16:14 tantek from a UX perspective, it is a very nice minimal, recognizable, and implied meaningful addition to URLs
# 16:15 tantek unlike all the alternatives for all the reasons people have given above already
# 16:15 mko And what's wrong with a single hash? Just that you could potentially have collisions with a single word fragmentation and an ID?
# 16:16 tantek as it is an invalid URL, it is safer to use and not have false positives
# 16:16 mko I must have missed it. <heads to the logs>
# 16:17 ben_thatmustbeme All in all, this isn't even the problem, I switched to a single # and KartikPrabhu's site is still telling me 'Source URL does not contain a link to the target URL'
# 16:17 tantek in addition - it is quite new and different technology (no implied uniqueness etc.) and thus *not* overloading the single "#" which already is quite overloaded was a good idea.
# 16:17 gRegor` Still using rel-in-reply-to, ben_thatmustbeme? Maybe he's not parsing that correctly.
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# 16:19 gRegor` You're using his form to send wm, or sending from your server?
# 16:20 KevinMarks_ I think it is better seen as making fragment addressing actually useful
# 16:21 ben_thatmustbeme tantek, the thing is, there is already an established, minimal, recognizable format to jump down to a specified part of a page, that happens to be #, the only real change is the plumbing of what it can find, fragmention becomes just an expansion of the existing and well known / supported #
# 16:23 tantek ben_thatmustbeme: but it's oddly fragile then, as some words will just not work on some pages because it will go their ID instead of first occurence
# 16:23 tantek and oddly fragile tech is usually a sign you overloaded too much
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# 16:24 tantek also, it lends itself nicely to further extension
# 16:25 tantek not as degenerate as you think - especially for rare words
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# 16:26 aaronpk hm I have never used a single-word fragmention yet
# 16:26 tantek onto further extension - you could use ### to express *two* phrases, a fragmention from and to, to indicate a longer block like a blockquote, without having to fragmention all of its text
# 16:26 KevinMarks_ If we make it highlight the phrase rather than the paragraph, that would encourage use of more words
# 16:26 aaronpk I like the idea of something like ##from+text#to+text
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# 16:27 tantek except too many "#" in text now thanks to hashtags
# 16:27 tantek KevinMarks: not like - but rather the only thing we need to make <blockquote cite> work
# 16:29 tantek and then the choice of ## over # makes even more sense
# 16:30 tantek KevinMarks: it is understandable yes, but "…" is present in too much actual text
# 16:30 KevinMarks_ There is the trickiness of do you want to highlight the elided bit
# 16:31 tantek plus yes we should have said that if you want to include literal "#" in the fragmention you should URL-escape
# 16:31 tantek so that's a bug to file *now* on every implementation
# 16:31 tantek hence why if you want to include a "#" in your fragmention, even today, you MUST URL-escape it
# 16:32 KevinMarks_ Except people are escaping the second leading # to make valid URLs
# 16:32 aaronpk so a literal hash sign in the fragment is not a valid URL. is it really ok to redefine what a valid URL is?
# 16:32 tantek KevinMarks: that doesn't contradict what I said
# 16:32 ben_thatmustbeme the +...+ makes sure you break out of any ID matching, and its easy enough to say "if i don't find the text 'from ... to' then it must be a from-to fragmention format"
# 16:33 tantek aaronpk - of course ok to extend URL - new URL spec in progress right now
# 16:36 aaronpk "IDs can consist of just digits, start with a digit, start with an underscore, consist of just punctuation, etc."
# 16:37 aaronpk that should make for some interesting source code
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# 16:44 tantek KevinMarks: nm I added the bit about URL escaping # if it's in your literal fragmention like "Use my #hashtag" (should be: "Use+my+%23hashtag" )
# 16:46 aaronpk the disclaimer on the proposed icon is my favorite
# 16:47 aaronpk oh man now I really want to see phrase highlighting!
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# 16:48 Loqi tantek meant to say: interesting, seems like MediaWiki (or something in our config) doesn't like handling http://indiewebcamp.com/%23%21 properly (which should go to a page with that name)
# 16:49 ben_thatmustbeme so i just tested it to see. created a page with id="#selfie" and a page with "#💩" and yes, ##selfie will jump to that ID
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# 16:51 KevinMarks_ Is that like ff turning spaces into ”°20 and chrome treating them as search keywords for Google
# 16:52 ben_thatmustbeme either way the ## is actually ambiguous as it could link to an ID that just starts with #
# 16:52 tantek it can't per current URL defn because it is invalid
# 16:53 tantek so not ambiguous at all, it is 100% error, which makes it perfect for adding functionality
# 16:55 KevinMarks_ I disagree. I think the endgame should be making I'd search a special case of text search
# 16:57 ben_thatmustbeme why don't we just look at #+ we immediately break out and define the fact that we are not just searching for and ID
# 16:57 ben_thatmustbeme the only way to define that we are not searching for an ID in the page is to use a space, so put it right up front
# 17:00 ben_thatmustbeme is trying to find the spec that says that index.html##selfie is not a currently valid URL
# 17:14 ben_thatmustbeme i see the ABNF does not allow it. The regex they give in Appendix B. does allow it however.
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# 17:15 ben_thatmustbeme i'm guessing many implementors went to the regex first, which would explain why things that should not work (according to the RFC) do work
# 17:25 kylewm aaronpk: barnabywalters: it looks like quill is sending "in_reply_to" and shrewdness "in-reply-to" arguments for micropub. is one right or better to just accept both?
# 17:25 aaronpk oh crap I think I have a pending push that will change that
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# 17:28 kylewm aaronpk: ok cool! that means i don't have to change my code :)
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# 18:04 emmak are those actual emails or a blog styled to look like email?
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# 18:39 Loqi KartikPrabhu: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 3 hours, 22 minutes ago: I'm trying to webmention you but getting 'Source URL does not contain a link to the target URL' .. does it not like the fragmention? or does it not check the 'in-reply-to' from http://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2014/8/28/1/_
# 18:40 KartikPrabhu ben_thatmustbeme: must have messed up my webmention code somehow will check
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# 18:53 KartikPrabhu ben_thatmustbeme: yeah that is most definitely some mess up on my part... will look into it this evening.
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# 19:11 kylewm aaronpk: I just showed off your sleep metrics post to a co-worker who got a jawbone, we were all surprised how little you sleep :)
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# 19:19 jgarber Hello! I'm working on markup for displaying comments on my site (via webmention!) and am a bit confused about when (or if) to mark up a comment with h-entry and/or h-cite and/or some sort of in-reply-to.
# 19:19 Loqi jgarber: ShaneHudson left you a message 2 weeks, 6 days ago: I saw you're plugin, it looks very good but there appears to be no recieving/storing? I would rather not use an external service for it
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# 19:20 jgarber Does anyone have advice or suggestions? I've read through the wiki and am still a bit fuzzy on the relationship between h-entry and h-cite.
# 19:21 aaronpk_ I guess I usually sleep <7 hrs most nights and sometimes catch up on weekends by getting 8
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# 19:22 aaronpk_ oh... Last couple nights have been short it looks like
# 19:23 tantek_1 aaronpk it looks like even though I quit FF and relaunched, the IRC client/server on your side is holding onto "tantek_" in the channel.
# 19:23 jgarber (Or is that question more appropriate in #microformats?)
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# 19:27 kylewm that way, the "comment" property for your artice has a list of comment objects (of type h-cite)
# 19:27 jgarber kylewm: Oh, nice. Thanks! I hadn't come across this page on the wiki yet.
# 19:28 jgarber This wiki page pretty much explains everything. I should've known all my questions would've been answered and thoroughly documented.
# 19:29 kylewm interesting that most of the examples you collected use "p-comment h-entry"!
# 19:35 tantek_1 does going to sleep and waking up work?
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# 19:36 tantek__ kylewm unsurprising as the first uf2 attempt at marking up comments was p-comment h-entry. It wasn't until h-cite solidified a bit and we started making the distinction between original and copy.
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# 19:39 tantek__ aaronpk - it takes just a few seconds (if that) for me to resume in IRC via the web IRC log UI after waking up from sleep (without having to explicitly rejoin on my end). Much faster than the "native" Mac Colloquy. Amazing.
# 19:39 tantek on Mac Colloquy it can take many many seconds sometimes longer than a minute to reconnect / rejoin a server.
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# 19:52 tantek jgarber, and awesome user page start! now what's the next most-important-to-you thing that you want to add to or improve on your website?
# 19:54 jgarber Good question! I'm still polishing the webmention stuff and look to open source webmention.sixtwothree.org as soon as I make sure there's nothing private in the repo.
# 19:55 jgarber I have some ideas about how I'd want to automatically send webmentions when I write something new, I want to add a couple sections for content types (Links, Notes, etc.)... the list goes on...
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# 20:00 tantek jgarber: cool! now add those items to a "Working On" section on your user page :)
# 20:09 tantek ok kylewm - how did you POSSE your reply as a comment to the Disqus on his post?!?
# 20:09 kylewm adding an feature request to Bridgy right now though :)
# 20:10 tantek ah yes, the tried and true "manual" technique
# 20:13 kylewm good call tantek!! that's totally in the same wheelhouse
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# 20:17 kylewm tantek: one roadblock, I know snarfed is starting to get a little wary of adding new nascar buttons to the current bridgy UI (which is already pretty daunting for noobs)
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# 20:19 kylewm that would be SO GREAT, will definitely reach out to you when I/we have some concrete ideas
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# 20:32 neuro` kylewm: it does (and I didn't add it myself).
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# 21:07 kylewm oh wow, the answer is that facebook allows editing posts (now?) and just hasn't documented it yet
# 21:08 neuro` kylewm: I think it's been possible for a while now
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# 21:15 neuro` If it means not breaking the existing, that's a great step forward.
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# 21:22 kylewm needs to read up on the API changes 2.0 -> 2.1
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# 22:42 tantek lucasgonze++ for writing and sharing an awesome minimal indie URL shortener at Homebrew Website Club last night!
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# 23:10 gRegor` Can lucasgonze time travel, tantek? :)
# 23:10 tantek gRegor`: he had s.gonze.com working last night
# 23:11 gRegor` Yeah. You edited 9/10 event though?
# 23:11 tantek oh darn it that reverting ALL My changes to 09-10 :(
# 23:12 tantek where's my Undo button for Revert? (cc: tommorris - who gets all MediaWiki complaints)
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# 23:12 tantek oh great, now the home page links to my screwup :/
# 23:14 gRegor` tantek: You can still go back and "edit" a past revision. Is that what you mean?
# 23:15 tantek I'm really liking the new more minimal and more frequently used links/pages sidebar
# 23:15 tantek It's been VERY useful when showing indiewebcamp.com to new people and encouraging them to get involved
# 23:16 tantek I'm looking forward to when the ?beta is no longer beta, and collapsing the "Discuss" vs. "Chat Log" links down to just one "Discussion Forum"
# 23:17 aaronpk maybe I'm old fashioned, but a forum is a particular type of website that has categories of threaded discussions
# 23:18 tantek we're just a single threaded forum, with one category, "indieweb"
# 23:19 tantek aaronpk, it's like that comparison that caseorganic made between the activitystreams mailing list archive of *one message* vs. *one page* of our IRC log
# 23:21 gRegor` Looks kinda odd on Firefox with the line through them too :)
# 23:21 gRegor` Not a big fan of emoji so won't be filing anytime soon ;)
# 23:21 tantek requires OSX 10.7+ too I noticed. Doesn't show on OSX 10.6.x.
# 23:21 aaronpk the problem is the artwork is all copyright the respective platform, so each platform has to create their own version of the emoji based on the text description
# 23:22 aaronpk can't remember the reason chrome doesn't (or can't) use the OSX default emoji
# 23:22 tantek aaronpk - someone will make an open source emoji web font
# 23:23 gRegor` Do these emojis mean the HWC slogan is "Write, Link, Hammer time!"? I hope so.
# 23:23 tantek wait - so which federation thread did you mean? how are they different again?
# 23:24 aaronpk especially the "Do we need valid SSL certificates?" thread last updated 2 years ago
# 23:24 tantek a small minority of folks put too much value into such hierarchy, when for the most part (80/20) you need no such hierarchy
# 23:24 tantek it's basically a huge waste of time that just slows down discussion
# 23:24 aaronpk of course the flip side is it's virtually impossible to discover anything in the IRC logs. it's purely useful for discussion, not so much discoverability
# 23:25 aaronpk that's why it's so important to capture discussions into wiki pages asap
# 23:25 tantek same kind of bad-think that causes schema-org hierarchy nonsense and volcanoes with fax machines
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# 23:25 tantek no! it's a *feature* that it's *obviously* virtually impossible to discover anything in the IRC logs
# 23:25 tantek and thus are motivated to actually capture anything relevant on the wiki
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# 23:25 tantek if you think something important was said in IRC, capture it on the wiki
# 23:26 tantek which is the *actual* truth for *all* discussion platforms, including email, PHP forumware, etc.
# 23:26 bear in an old community I was in (old as in 20 yrs ago) - we used to have a !bookmark command that allowed us to flag discussions in IRC for later rollup to documentation or website
# 23:37 tantek KevinMarks: "author photos did not work well with the limited screen space and bandwidth of mobile" - I call bullshit. Disproof exhibit A: our logs.
# 23:38 KevinMarks__ I think the real failure was the silo tax meaning you had to have G+ profile in your rel-me chain
# 23:38 tantek why don't they just drop rich snippets completely then?
# 23:38 tantek yeah - the artificial requirement of G+ was F'd
# 23:39 KevinMarks__ they history is wrong there too - we had rel-me in google profiles in 2007
# 23:45 tantek well at least this means the Google dumb query param alternative is also dead
# 23:46 tantek see Google? that's what you get for proposing a dumb extension to a standard, and then limiting that standard's functionality to links to your own damn silo.
# 23:49 tantek awesome that we *already* have confirmed venues for all 2014-09-10 HWC locations!
# 23:49 tantek and Minneapolis has even already posted an event for it (even if it is on FB)
# 23:50 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 23:56 tantek someone want to send all the Google rel=author pages/videos to the archivebot before they all disappear?
# 23:57 tantek assuming Google prefers to delete history than keep it around and provide explanatory context
# 23:57 tantek I'm just assuming that large corporations are Orwellian by default.
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# 23:58 tantek I've already forgotten how to summon archivebot - commands in some IRC channel I forgot.