#indiewebcamp 2014-09-09

2014-09-09 UTC
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bear agrees
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bear fencing with language hint is so much better than trying to guess if an indent is a code block or just badly imported text with tabs
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tantek what?
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tantek " ```" is nonsensical
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tantek and doesn't belong in "plain text"
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tantek pretty sure I have a solid superior and defensible alternative proposed on my wiki page
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tantek the more I look at markdown, the more I can't believe people have put up with the crappy constructs for links and images, nevermind the noise for code blocks
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tantek none of that stuff obeys the primary design principle markdown itself starts with
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bear I don't see how ``` is nonsensical at all - yes, it's a bit more wordy than other markdown items but it does what it says - denotes a block of code
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bear while also allowing it to be cut-n-pasted as is
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tantek ``` does not say *anything*
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tantek it looks like someone's key got stuck
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bear it's just as non-sensical (IMO) as using --- and === for headers
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bear is that a dash following a line or a header marker
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tantek bear - nope - both the ========== and ------------ have prior use in plain text emails
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bear sorry - but prior use does not immediately give something more weight for current use
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tantek bear - it absolutely does per the primary markdown design principle
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bear or I would still be known as a long series of node!node!node@server
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tantek if you're going to be punctuation noise in your plain text, then all you have is another wiki-like syntax
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bear I view the ** for bold to have the same issue as ## for H2
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bear if your going to allow variable length markers for one, why not the other
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tantek I'm not, in either case
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bear and "just use auto-link" ignores the biggest feature that markdown's link syntax allows - the specification of title text
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tantek ** is crap as is ##
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tantek bear - then <a href=url>link text</a> is good enough for that
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tantek I don't see sufficient advantage in using bizarro markdown syntax for hyperlinking text
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bear haha - I'm getting a chuckle from which of the items we both feel are bizarro :)
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tantek images and links? yeah.
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bear yea, I learned to love the ``` just from sheer weight of it being used by github folks
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bear for me italics has always been /italics/
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bear hmm, I would make these changes to your suggested table: /italics/ [http://example.com/foo foo]
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bear and ` code block
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ShaneHudson Is there a reason microformats aren't namespaced more generically? Feels weird having h-, p- etc all being part of the same thing
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ShaneHudson I suppose mf-h- would just look messy
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tantek ShaneHudson - what problem are you solving?
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tantek "namespacing" in general is a hypothetical architecture handwave to be avoided, especially in formats.
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mko aaronpk: I apparently got disconnected last night when you asked regarding my redis use. Specifically, I am using a slightly modified version of https://github.com/visionmedia/reds running Redis in its default configuration.
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ShaneHudson That's fair enough, no problem really just feels odd despite knowing which each prefix means
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mko aaronpk: I haven't tried doing any optimization on my search system yet. I just wanted a basic one in place so I could search my archive of 16k+ posts.
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bear ShaneHudson++ on HTTPS Level 5
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Loqi ShaneHudson has 5 karma
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ShaneHudson bear: cheers :) It was far easier than I expected!
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tantek I was blown away by how many people went from 0 to Level 5 this past weekend.
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tantek incredible
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bear yes, I love seeing all the new folks at level 5 - I'm loving that the documentation work is helping others
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ShaneHudson Yeah, luckily it is mostly just config and people have already written the long lines of recommended ciphers!
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ShaneHudson I tried to put most of it on wiki, and posted this note on apache for Jeremy - https://shanehudson.net/2014/09/07/012
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mko What is HTTPS Level 5?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "HTTPS Level 5" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=HTTPS+Level+5
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ShaneHudson what is https
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Loqi HTTPS is an abbreviation for Hypertext Transfer Protocol Secure, a protocol for secure communication, supported by web servers (like Apache & nginx) and browsers http://indiewebcamp.com/https
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ShaneHudson It is on that page mko :)
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mko Wasn't sure if there were separate DFNs or not.
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mko :)
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ShaneHudson I really need to sort out naming conventions for my notes. I would do by id but id isn't created until after publish. And of course going by previous causes problems with deleted posts
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tantek.com created /HTTPS_Level_5 (+36) "r" (view diff)
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bear tantek++ you are the redirect master
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Loqi tantek has 75 karma
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gregorlove.com edited /storage (+98) "/* Databases */" (view diff)
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ShaneHudson Does anyone know much about the state of SPDY? I was going to add it but saw a 6 month old post mentioning it is not advised as it modifies mod_ssl and has a security risk of some kind?
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ShaneHudson I seem to have lost that post though
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bear.im created /HTTPS_Level_4 (+36) "backfilling https redirects" (view diff)
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bear.im created /HTTPS_Level_3 (+36) "backfilling https redirects" (view diff)
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bear.im created /HTTPS_Level_2 (+36) "backfilling https redirects" (view diff)
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bear.im created /HTTPS_Level_1 (+36) "backfilling https redirects" (view diff)
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bear.im created /IndieMark_Level_6 (+31) "IndieMark Level Redirect" (view diff)
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bear.im created /IndieMark_Level_5 (+31) "IndieMark Level Redirect" (view diff)
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bear.im created /IndieMark_Level_4 (+31) "IndieMark Level Redirect" (view diff)
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rascul ShaneHudson are you referring to this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRIME
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bear.im created /IndieMark_Level_3 (+31) "IndieMark Level Redirect" (view diff)
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bear.im created /IndieMark_Level_2 (+31) "IndieMark Level Redirect" (view diff)
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bear.im created /IndieMark_Level_1 (+31) "IndieMark Level Redirect" (view diff)
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ShaneHudson rascul: I think this was a different issue. But appears it could have been fixed by an offiical patch landing in mod_ssl, rather than using the modified version
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rascul oh ok
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rascul don't need a modified mod_ssl now
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ShaneHudson :) Will have another look later in the week then
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rascul if you find the post again i would be interested to see it
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bear oh joy - Comcast is injecting javascript into pages served with plain HTTP for anyone using it's XFinity hotspots
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bear http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/09/why-comcasts-javascript-ad-injections-threaten-security-net-neutrality/
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rascul go through vpn, ignore comcast
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rascul i got a tinc vpn from my router to a digitalocean droplet, only thing comcast knows is osfag8ye8tgyw4ewao08408
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bear it's more than that tho
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bear they are sending a big ol'd F-You to anyone with DoNotTrack enabled
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rascul enabling it makes you a target
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tantek what is SPDY?
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Loqi http://indiewebcamp.com/SPDY
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tantek hmm
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tantek what is mod_ssl?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "mod_ssl" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=mod_ssl
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ShaneHudson For notes, what do you all think of '/2014/09/09/note-1'? Where the 1 increases each note, resetting per day. I can't have an accurate id, and don't want manual slugs for each note
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tantek what is Comcast?
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Loqi Comcast is a service provider that provides internet access to businesses and personal homes http://indiewebcamp.com/Comcast
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tantek bear - please add that criticism of Comcast to /Comcast
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tantek what is vpn?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "vpn" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=vpn
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tantek what is digitalocean?
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bear I was just looking for that page...
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "digitalocean" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=digitalocean
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tantek what is droplet?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "droplet" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=droplet
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tantek what is DoNotTrack?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "DoNotTrack" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=DoNotTrack
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rascul oh i thought we had a digitalocean page
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rascul i guess that's what i get for thinking again
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tantek.com edited /SPDY (+59) "dfn, see also" (view diff)
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bear.im edited /Comcast (+241) "add js ad injection article reference" (view diff)
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rascul i'll do something for digitalocean right now
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bear i'm also going to add this as a Pro for HTTPS page
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tantek.com created /spdy (+18) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com moved /https to /HTTPS
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bear.im created /Https (+19) "because yes" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /storage (+24) "/* Databases */ update werd.io -> Known" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /HTTPS_Level_5 (+0) "single redir" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /HTTPS_Level_4 (+0) "single redir" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /HTTPS_Level_3 (+0) "single redir" (view diff)
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bear I was just doing that and wondered why it suddenly was working
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tantek.com edited /HTTPS_Level_2 (+0) "single redir" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /HTTPS_Level_1 (+0) "single redir" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /SSL (+0) "single redir" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /TLS (+19) "r" (view diff)
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kylewm.com created /database_antipattern (+34) "common typo from me" (view diff)
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rascul.io created /DigitalOcean (+226) "Created page with "{{stub}} '''<dfn>[https://digitalocean.com DigitalOcean]</dfn>''' is a [[web hosting]] provider targeted towards developers and offers low cost cloud servers in data centers acr..."" (view diff)
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rascul how do i make a redirect page?
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bear.im edited /HTTPS (+243) "add link to comcast js injection to the list of reasons why" (view diff)
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kylewm rascul: #REDIRECT [[pagename]]
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Loqi kylewm: KartikPrabhu left you a message 3 hours, 29 minutes ago: reply with photo bug filed: https://github.com/snarfed/activitystreams-unofficial/issues/22
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bear type in the wiki page url - edit page - #REDIRECT...
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rascul.io created /digitalocean (+22) "redirect to DigitalOcean" (view diff)
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rascul i didn't do it right
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bear replace "pagename" with the target page
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rascul oh... silly me
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bear :)
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rascul.io edited /digitalocean (+4) "fix my silliness" (view diff)
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shanehudson.net edited /SPDY (+638) (view diff)
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bear rascul++ for wiki gardening
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Loqi rascul has 15 karma
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rascul i did it :)
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bear ShaneHudson++ for wiki gardening
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Loqi ShaneHudson has 6 karma
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rascul what is digitalocean?
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Loqi DigitalOcean is a web hosting provider targeted towards developers and offers low cost cloud servers in data centers across the world http://indiewebcamp.com/DigitalOcean
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shanehudson.net edited /SPDY (+2) (view diff)
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tantek !tell tommorris could you add your awesome photo from IWCUK 2014 to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/UK similarly to how the photos are on http://indiewebcamp.com/2014 ?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm is everyone who is HTTPS Level 5 off SHA-1 then?
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bear probably not
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kylewm shaaaaaaaaaaaaa.com is not working for me
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rascul wrong number of a's?
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kylewm haha, no i mean it loaded, it just doesn't work when i try to check a website
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kylewm gives some non-interesting error message
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rascul oh
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rascul hrm me too
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bear same
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rascul we must have broke it
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bear sad
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bear i'll have to code up a version using python - that was a handy check
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tantek.com edited /ssl (+0) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Https (+0) "single redir" (view diff)
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kylewm wonder what's the significance of 13 A's
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bear probably a bad star trek movie reference
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tantek 12 must have been squatted
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kylewm ha!
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tantek kylewm - definitely not. since CAs were still selling SHA1 certs as of this weekend.
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tantek and people opted for cheapest - hence SHA1
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GWG Evening.
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tantek I would assume current HTTPS Level 5 folks are *mostly* SHA-1
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GWG What's the topic of the day?
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bear the option to generate a sha-2 is still undocumented if you use openssl to generate the CSR
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tantek GWG a mix. though https still keeps a good bg hum going
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GWG I need to add myself to that
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tantek heh
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tantek where are you?
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tantek in terms of HTTPS Level? http://indiewebcamp.com/HTTPS#IndieMark_Levels
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GWG tantek: 4, but only because I use SNI and when I enabled HSTS, I had trouble with another site on the same server
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tantek GWG, oh cool! when did you add the http to https redirect ?
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GWG After I added SPDY
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tantek when did you add SPDY?
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kylewm GWG: you're using SHA-2 though
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GWG Hmm...I think last weekend.
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kylewm ahead of a lot of us there
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ShaneHudson Decided, I think, to go with /year/month/day/hourminute, produces a nice sized number which will almost always be unique to the day :)
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GWG kylewm: I just upped my certificate to 4096 bits
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ShaneHudson My cert is SHA-2
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bear better get his act together... ;)
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ShaneHudson NameCheap's Comodo is a good buy
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GWG bear: Why?
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GWG I went the cheap StartSSL way
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GWG I got into an argument about this two weeks ago
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bear I'm just being silly - doing a faux ego thing about all the ssl updates you guys are kicking arse on
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GWG What's my important to you? Encryption or identity in a certificate?
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rascul.io edited /DigitalOcean (+163) "tell about who is using digitalocean and their irc channel" (view diff)
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kylewm GWG: 4096, going the full Randy Waterhouse
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GWG But, honestly..none of us are doing e-commerce...do we care who our CA is?
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GWG Even a self-signed CA will still provide secure encryption
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kylewm GWG++
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Loqi GWG has 17 karma
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ShaneHudson Yeah, if it were not for being given a C on the test I would not have bothered improving after I got basic SSL working lol
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tantek.com edited /SPDY (+277) "subheads, IndieWeb Examples" (view diff)
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rascul getting scored seems to be a motivator to improve https
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rascul was the same for me
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tantek GWG, feel free to fix detail/date: http://indiewebcamp.com/SPDY#David_Shanske
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GWG I have a bunch of new projects though
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GWG Including my new short URL
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GWG di5.us
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tantek anyone else support SPDY on your personal site? Add yourself: http://indiewebcamp.com/SPDY#IndieWeb_Examples
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GWG Why I haven't set up?
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ShaneHudson Oh shit, it is 2:20am... goodnight all!
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Loqi night
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GWG Night, ShaneHudson
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GWG I haven't proven SPDY is faster for me
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bear hmm, startssl.com is not resolving for me
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GWG I also tried Pagespeed but it wasn't helpful
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tantek bear, hmm, not just you: http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/startssl.com
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rascul resolves for me @8.8.8.8
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tantek What is Pagespeed?
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bear sorry - I keep saying resolve when it's a browser page load fail
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Pagespeed" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Pagespeed
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rascul they have weird maintenance stuff though
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bear is horrible with lingo problems
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rascul oh it don't load for me
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bear i'll come back to that later
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GWG I sprung for the $60 identity verification package
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rascul i've seen cases where it worked for me but not someone a few states over due to their weird maintenance
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GWG Nothing like a late night call from an Israeli guy
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bear yea, they do have weird hours
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bear GWG++
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Loqi GWG has 18 karma
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GWG bear: They are in Israel. It is the time difference
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bear nods
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rascul GWG i will eventually, i'm just kinda lazy
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bear I did it because I was able to then add our company to my identity which allows for free certs
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bear very handy
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rascul yeah i like startssl
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GWG I just custom-compiled Nginx, which I avoided doing because I know I'll forget to upgrade if it isn't in a package
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GWG Added in SPDY support, Pagespeed, and Cache Purgre
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GWG Purge
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Loqi [mention] https://kylewm.com/article/2014/09/09/1/greasemonkey-script-to-replace-indie-actions-with-links-to-my-site linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webactions (webmention)
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kylewm ^ indie-userscripts.org :)
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mko kylewm++
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Loqi kylewm has 47 karma
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GWG When I get to 20 karma, can I redeem for prizes?
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mko No.
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mko Karma then redeems you for prize.
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bear mko++ excellent quip
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Loqi mko has 8 karma
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GWG So, bear, question for you
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bear k
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GWG How do I make my site load faster? I'm looking for some new Nginx tweaks
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GWG I'm running a LEMP stack with FastCGI_Cache to store pages statically
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bear add cache headers to your page and then enable page caching
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bear see https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-setup-fastcgi-caching-with-nginx-on-your-vps for an example
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mko Anyone here have standardized image resizing specifications for their site (i.e. like Flickr's http://f.cl.ly/items/1A2D1o1F0S0C0n1S0q2k/Screen%20Shot%202014-09-08%20at%206.31.44%20PM.png) or do you just resize things before uploading?
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kylewm bear: is that different from nginx's proxy_cache stuff?
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bear yes
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GWG kylewm: Proxy cache proxies the site
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GWG Fastcgi cache caches the output from the fastcgi server
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bear proxy_cache stores the result of a request from the upstream server
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bear fastcgi_cache technically does the same thing - but it uses the existing nginx cache control to manage it
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bear proxy_cache IMO is a sledge hammer approach
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GWG bear: One is for upstream web servers, the other for upstream fastcgi servers
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rascul GWG why build nginx instead of using the package?
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GWG Proxy cache is when you have multiple backends, I think
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GWG rascul: Cache Purge, SPDY, etc aren't built in
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kylewm fastcgi : php :: uwsgi : python ?
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rascul spdy is, might need 1.6 though
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bear yes
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GWG kylewm: Yup
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bear uwsgi is to python like fastcgi is to php
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rascul kylewm uwsgi can run php natively now
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kylewm so would proxy-cache be the right thing to use with uwsgi?
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bear technically you can use both with both - but it's hard enough getting one to work ;)
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bear noo
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kylewm oh, really glad i asked!
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rascul kylewm maybe you want this? http://uwsgi-docs.readthedocs.org/en/latest/Fastrouter.html
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bear I would use the "normal" page cache by setting up a web zone: http://nginx.com/resources/admin-guide/caching/
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GWG The key to page caching is the best cache invalidation possible so you can set the expiry to a high time and are effectively serving static pages
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bear IMO fastrouter is for folks who don't want to mess with nginx/apache (or who can't because of hosting issues)
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bear but I don't do a lot in uwsgi land so take my thoughts with a big grain-o-salt
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rascul i've not used fastrouter myself
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kylewm I've been trying to speed up my site, was just getting to the point of thinking about caching, but man it is confusing
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GWG kylewm: Anything on your site require dynamic? Or can you cache static pages and be happy?
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kylewm GWG: static would be great, as long as i can invalidate it quickly when i post something or receive a wm...
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GWG What language is your site written in?
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kylewm python
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GWG So, add the Nginx Cache Purge module and write some code to invalidate the cache
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kylewm bear: thank you for the tip about zones and stuff, bookmarking for when i can take time to understand
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rascul btw this can be useful for web page optimizing http://gtmetrix.com/
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bear it's called fastrouter because it let's use route based on url path *before* it hits your app
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bear which is why I made the "don't want to touch nginx" comment
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bear IMO those things should be done at the nginx layer
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bear goes to get dinner before he forgets again
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Loqi [mention] https://kylewm.com/bookmark/2014/09/09/1/bear-i-would-use-the-normal-page linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-09-08#t1410226524877 (webmention)
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bear kylewm - quick before I *really* leave comment... yea, stick with web zones and cache invalidation tools
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bear your life will be easier and less painful IMO
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kylewm thanks!!
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kylewm bear++
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kylewm GWG++
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Loqi bear has 20 karma
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kylewm rascul++
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kylewm too much karma
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Loqi rascul has 16 karma
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bear plus if you *really* want to invalidate - just restart nginx ;)
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rascul karma spam!
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bear flees
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tantek is also falling asleep but hasn't finished with post-IndieWebCampUK wiki updates :/
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tantek.com edited /2014/UK/Demos (+298) "headers for intro demos, hack day demos, add IRC link to start with" (view diff)
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tantek could someone who's more awake (aaronpk? KevinMarks?) copy the demo notes from IRC into http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/UK/Demos#Hack_Day_Demos (pointer there to where the IRC logs start of the Hack Day Demos). Help!
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@AmazeWall DigiWall Update: Posted by @tantek #indiewebcampuk day 1 #schedule #grid. #indieweb #barcamp #latergram #nofilter... https://twitter.com/AmazeWall/status/509176334007140352/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/509176334007140352)
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@AmazeWall DigiWall Update: Posted by @tantek #indiewebcampuk #day2 #hackday #hacksessions #grid. #indieweb #barcamp #indiew... https://twitter.com/AmazeWall/status/509176337140314112/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/509176337140314112)
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aaronpk wow busy night
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GWG It was?
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aaronpk evening?
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aaronpk late afternoon?
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GWG What made it busy?
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aaronpk i dunno, i was gone a while and lots of discussion here
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GWG Oh
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KevinMarks_ I've been in SF, and missed the backlog
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@Johannes_Ernst So @benwerd got @leolaporte to use @withknown. Huge congratulations!! #indieweb http://upon2020.com/banter/?p=544 (twitter.com/_/status/509205561871581184)
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neuro` Good morning.
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KevinMarks_ is amused that tantek thinks I'm more awake as I was on UK+US time this weekend and didn't sleep saturday night
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neuro` KevinMarks_: are you the one in the UK today?
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KevinMarks_ no, I'm in california, I just did a UK timezone shift at the weekend too for IWC UK
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neuro` I've noticed that :)
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KevinMarks_ going to the UK next tuesday
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KevinMarks_ it was really obvious in my notes on the demos that I was not really in control of my faculties
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neuro` I was less present at the demo day, kids were saking for my time.
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neuro` I'll have to check your notes.
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neuro` Wait, was demo day he first day?
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neuro` needs some sleep too
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benwerd KevinMarks_: Lots of respect for doing that. Really wish I'd seen more of it. I need to catch up on the notes.
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KevinMarks_ no, there was intros (Which includes "what I have working" )
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KevinMarks_ and demo day at the end "what I got working this weekend"
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KevinMarks_ there was a lot fo cool SSL progress, which doesn't really demo well
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neuro` Oh, OK, then I was not there, only caught up on IRC / Twitter.
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neuro` KevinMarks_: thank you for taking these notes. Even with sleep deprivation they are precious.
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kylewm gives up on configuring nginx caching
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neuro` kylewm: may I help you?
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GWG kylewm: Why?
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neuro` kylewm: what type of caching are you trying to setup? microcache?
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kylewm neuro`: sure! let me put up a gist
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neuro` kylewm: sure, let me grab another coffee and have the kids get up
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kylewm so my config (trimmed) is here https://gist.github.com/kylewm/08210dda7abc4caaaaf9
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kylewm maybe microcache is the way to go, I'm just trying to get a feel for what the options are
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kylewm so i was trying to get it to cache things for 5 minutes
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neuro` kylewm: so you'll cache everything, included POST request?
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kylewm I thought GET & HEAD only were the default based on http://nginx.org/en/docs/http/ngx_http_uwsgi_module.html#uwsgi_cache_methods
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kylewm the settings by the way, seem to just not do anything... no files are written to /var/cache/nginx
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neuro` kylewm: this is my working setup, for a Django application https://gist.github.com/fdv/c7e673eda7c7b1777533
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neuro` kylewm: just replace <%= @frontend_cookie %> with your cokie name, I c/p that from my Puppet templates and forgot to remove the variable
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kylewm gotcha, ok interesting, thank you!
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neuro` kylewm: you're welcome. By default nginx caches everything.
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kylewm it's very possible that i'm just using too old of a version, before uwsgi_cache stuff was supported
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kylewm Ubuntu 12.04 is getting a little long in the tooth
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GWG kylewm: It would say when you do configtest
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neuro` kylewm: that setup runs on a 12.04
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david.shanske.com edited /HTTPS (+0) (view diff)
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kylewm configtest is clean
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GWG kylewm: Then all the commands work
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kylewm i'll keep poking around, thanks both of you
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neuro` You're welcome, tell us how it works.
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@elliottucker @benwerd @leolaporte are you using brid.gy for webmentions? (twitter.com/_/status/509225226572664832)
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KartikPrabhu hi Loqi wassup?
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@kevinmarks Looking forward to talking #indieweb with @leolaporte @benwerd and @erinjo on TWiG this week (twitter.com/_/status/509253767569489920)
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@TonyaHallRadio RT @kevinmarks: Looking forward to talking #indieweb with @leolaporte @benwerd and @erinjo on TWiG this week (twitter.com/_/status/509254563799375873)
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@cubicgarden RT @kevinmarks: Looking forward to talking #indieweb with @leolaporte @benwerd and @erinjo on TWiG this week (twitter.com/_/status/509255579320455168)
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@SuliemanSultan RT @kevinmarks: Looking forward to talking #indieweb with @leolaporte @benwerd and @erinjo on TWiG this week (twitter.com/_/status/509280055692759040)
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@dkernohan @mdvfunes @cogdog that's the joy of @withknown - it wouldn't matter due to webmention. But not sure what would replace the twitter timeline? (twitter.com/_/status/509286789299703808)
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@dkernohan @mdvfunes @cogdog @withknown - maybe a webmention aggregator could let you subscribe to the mentions friends were getting & their own posts? (twitter.com/_/status/509286961291345920)
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@ShaneHudson @leolaporte Yay! That's great news :) Please do drop by the indieweb irc, it's a great little community. (twitter.com/_/status/509297732813852672)
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@RikMende @exiledsurfer @asteris maybe it's about time we realize the platform already exist : Its the Internet + #indieweb #posse #webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/509300018977570816)
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jonnybarnes anyone on here happen to be using Yosemite and have PHP installed?
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GWG petermolnar: About what I mentioned yesterday, I was referring to wordpress-syndication, the one that inserts the links into the posts.
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petermolnar @GWG please refresh the memories
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GWG petermolnar: This thing... https://github.com/jihaisse/wordpress-syndication
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petermolnar yep, I remember that, I have a slightly hacked version on my site: https://github.com/petermolnar/wordpress-syndication
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GWG petermolnar: I'm working on my version, which takes the return from Bridgy using code based on the Bridgy code snarfed contributed, and stores the URL in post meta.
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petermolnar that is a good idea, but you could put the code additionally to the syndication plugin, could you not?
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petermolnar therefore we'd have a single codebase instead of a series of plugins :)
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GWG petermolnar: I thought about a fork, but the design is fundamentally different.
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GWG I want to give it Bridgy Publish capabilities
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GWG Wordpress Syndication is more to add the rel-syndication links.
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petermolnar true
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petermolnar the bridgy publish sounds good, but please make it sure you do not hardcode brid.gy as url, since there is a possibility that someone will run their own brid.gy
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GWG petermolnar: Good point.
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GWG I'll be posting the code at some point. But it takes the metadata code I used in my other plugin for displaying Facepiles, so I'll be removing same from that codebase. I'm adjusting what goes in what.
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Jihaisse I will be on vacations nexts weeks
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GWG So, it will have a few display options, options for manual entry of URLs(G+ for example, which can't autopost), etc.
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GWG Jihaisse: I'm sorry I didn't fork you.
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Jihaisse oh, ok
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GWG I don't know if this will get usable anyway.
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Jihaisse why ?
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GWG Jihaisse: My plan is to have a plugin that does the display of the rel-syndication links, but also allows for manual entry of same, and can publish via Bridgy.
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Jihaisse ok !
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GWG Jihaisse: We'll see if I finish it
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GWG I also still have this idea about using the WP JSON API to create micropub endpoints for Wordpress.
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GWG Thus allowing the indie action stuff demoed in the UK to work.
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ben_thatmustbeme good morning all
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GWG Morning, ben_thatmustbeme.
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ben_thatmustbeme how are you today?
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: I'm thinking of a project, getting ready to go out to visit my butcher...nothing excited
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GWG exciting
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ben_thatmustbeme i saw you mention micropub endpoints for WP, that would be pretty cool
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm not much of a WP guy, thats why I've taken to writing my own platform
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: The JSON API for Wordpress is available as a plugin, scheduled for integration into core Wordpress for the next version
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GWG jeremyzilar was, at Indiewebcamp back in June, working on publishing directly from the front of his site without going into the admin interface.
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ben_thatmustbeme cool. thats actually what i'm working on right now
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ben_thatmustbeme i receive micropub but I don't have my own client
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ben_thatmustbeme yet
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: I'm not ready for that. i have some other things I want to do.
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GWG I figure by the time I get to it, the JSON API will be integrated.
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, damn, auth endpoints could in theory contain query strings already
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jonnybarnes does anyone have any good guides on resizing images whilst keeping aspect ratio?
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neuro` jonnybarnes: you mean letting convert do the job?
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jonnybarnes oh crap, forgot to add I'm doing this in PHP
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neuro` jonnybarnes: using which graphical library?
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jonnybarnes Well, currently using Imagine: http://imagine.readthedocs.org/
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neuro` OK, so it's GD
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jonnybarnes Yeah, at the moment, though technically Imagine can use Imagick
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jonnybarnes I was hoping the Box class Imagine provides would preserve AR but it doesn't
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neuro` You'll probably need to get width and height, find the ratio and apply
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jonnybarnes neuro` yeah thats what im thinking
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neuro` jonnybarnes: you can also give Imagick::scaleImage a try
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neuro` if ImageMagick is installed on your system which is probably the case
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aaronpk jonnybarnes: in my experience imagemagick is pretty feature complete and you can usually hunt down code examples pretty easily with a couple google searches
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jonnybarnes this should be simple enough aaronpk, btw, do you happen to know the php function to round an number to the neares integer?
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jonnybarnes ceil rounds thing up
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jonnybarnes which would probably do
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jonnybarnes its called round()
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ben_thatmustbeme well, that was a long way around to get indieauth working again, but now with the a person's own auth provider not just defaulting to indieauth.com/auth
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KevinMarks_ More have/want design https://massmosaic.com/
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ben_thatmustbeme can anyone explain the state param for auth / token requests to me?
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6749#section-4.1.1
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aaronpk basically clients can stick something there and the auth server just has to echo it back. it could be a session identifier, or encoded text, or whatever. it's up to the client what the value actually is.
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ben_thatmustbeme oh okay
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kylewm.com edited /database-antipattern (+311) "/* FAQ */ added some q's that are frequently a'ed by me! cc: tantek,aaronpk" (view diff)
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aaronpk the primary concern with database-as-primary-storage is the long-term viability of the data
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aaronpk so an HTML export of a database is not super useful unless you can re-create the database from that html trivially
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kylewm.com created /databases_antipattern (+34) "Redirected page to [[database-antipattern]]" (view diff)
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aaronpk also i'm in a bit of a sore spot right now dealing with mysql in particular. encountering lots of limitations of mysql that postgres doesn't have
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aaronpk specifically with backing up and migrating large amounts of data (like >100gb tables)
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jonnybarnes jesus, >100GB tables!!
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jonnybarnes how?
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KevinMarks__ is it data data or mostly text?
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aaronpk geoloqi location data
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shanehudson.net edited /note (+385) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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KevinMarks__ would hbase work for it?
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ben_thatmustbeme woohoo. i'm getting tokens correctly!
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aaronpk yay!
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Loqi woot
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ben_thatmustbeme or at least I am from myself
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neuro` Congrats
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ben_thatmustbeme thanks
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ben_thatmustbeme hopefully very soon I'll have a client page so i can start posting from my own site without needing the admin interface
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ben_thatmustbeme http://ben.thatmustbe.me/new
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kylewm ben_thatmustbeme: do you know that your fragmentions are preempting ids (at least in FF)? http://ben.thatmustbe.me/post/2014/9/7/4/hello_facebook_hopefully#likes
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, i noticed that last night. i'm just using the open source fragmention.js i thought
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kylewm now how do I elevate permissions?
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aaronpk elevate permissions?
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ben_thatmustbeme on my page? just log in from that form there, it should work. (i hope)
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kylewm oh duh! i was looking in the old place for the login box
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ben_thatmustbeme also, all my logins now check the user's page for auth endpoint aaronpk
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kylewm ben_thatmustbeme: worked, first try!
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ben_thatmustbeme excellent!
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aaronpk although the real answer is that your authorization server could present you a UI to tweak the scopes that are granted
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ben_thatmustbeme huh? by "your" you mean the person logging in's auth server?
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aaronpk yes
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ben_thatmustbeme that would be neat trying to picture how that would work
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aaronpk it's been on my mind for a long time
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aaronpk it's like benward's "checkboxes bitches"
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aaronpk yes I mean benward__ not benwerd
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aaronpk https://benward.me/blog/tumblr-968515729
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ben_thatmustbeme kylewm were you able to post?
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kylewm yup
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ben_thatmustbeme excellent.
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ben_thatmustbeme next step will be adding a bunch more fields.
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kylewm a thousand points to the first micropub implementation that supports editing :)
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aaronpk two thousand!
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ben_thatmustbeme huh, just noticed though, ckeditor was supposed to run
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aaronpk kylewm: you mean server or client editing?
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kylewm not sure how you mean. i'm thinking open an existing post, and then send it back as an update instead of a new post
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@pazureka RT @jmenglund03: Archiving #umnnexted course content on @withknown and #wordpress sites. #indieweb http://known.jenniferenglund.net/2014/archival-process-beginsone-of-the-courses-i-am-taking-this (twitter.com/_/status/509410233932734464)
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aaronpk i mean your server has to support editing first
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kylewm yes
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kylewm a thousand points to each then!
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@wp_digest RT @jmenglund03: Archiving #umnnexted course content on @withknown and #wordpress sites. #indieweb http://known.jenniferenglund.net/2014/archival-process-beginsone-of-the-courses-i-am-taking-this (twitter.com/_/status/509410940580667392)
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kylewm aaronpk: why "u" not "url" for the parameter here http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#Updating_Objects (url feels more consistent to me as url is the parsed property)
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aaronpk i was sticking with one-letter names for micropub fields
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aaronpk but i'm not 100% sold on that yet
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kylewm cool, I think "h" makes sense since it's not actually a property of the object (as you convinced me previously)
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kylewm but registering my preference for "url" :)
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kylewm.com edited /Micropub (+212) "/* Adding a Syndication URL */ registering my preference for parameter name 'url' instead of 'u'" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme kylewm, i think i will take that challenge.. being the first site to do editing via micropub
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ShaneHudson What is the challenge? Surely editing is the same as writing new, just need to provide an id for the one to edit?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "the challenge? Surely editing is the same as writing new, just need to provide an id for the one to edit" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=the+challenge%3F+Surely+editing+is+the+same+as+writing+new%2C+just+need+to+provide+an+id+for+the+one+to+edit
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ShaneHudson I don't think we need a page for that Loqi
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kylewm ShaneHudson: yeah I don't think it will be difficult, but no one has done it yet to my knowledge! it would also be nice if the editor slurped in the post and pre-filled all the fields
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ShaneHudson Yeah, it would be nice to have a micropub client for offline editing :)
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@joelgaines ^jg Healthcare information privacy and control changes are the means to empowered patients and better health. #OwnYourData (twitter.com/_/status/509429870603288577)
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@LifeHealthDiary ^jg Healthcare information privacy and control changes are the means to empowered patients and better health. #OwnYourData (twitter.com/_/status/509429874881478656)
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rascul oh we get #ownyourdata stuff too?
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bret nice job ShaneHudson++
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bret on your notes/articles/links on the home pate
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bret page*
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ShaneHudson Thanks :) It is nice to have some content on there! Really need to get POSSE working nicely though
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rascul soon here i'm gonna have myself a hack weekend to get a bunch of stuff done with my site that i've been not doing, if i can accept webmentions by cambridge i'll be happy
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ShaneHudson Firefox has changed the built in webrtc button from a phone to chat, looked far better phone... this makes it looks like a chat rather than phonecall
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snarfed ShaneHudson++ looks great!
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Loqi snarfed: KartikPrabhu left you a message 1 day ago: reply with photo bug filed: https://github.com/snarfed/activitystreams-unofficial/issues/22
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Loqi ShaneHudson has 7 karma
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snarfed ShaneHudson: are you sending webmentions for links in your posts?
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ShaneHudson snarfed: Not all links, I need to make it automated. But I can send webmentions
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ShaneHudson I think, only tried it internally
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snarfed ShaneHudson: cool. if you want a shortcut to posseing, obligatory plug: https://www.brid.gy/about#publish
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ShaneHudson Ooo I didn't know bridgy had that
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snarfed yup. both interactive (w/preview) and automated (w/webmention). just click the silo button next to "publish" on your user pages. https://www.brid.gy/twitter/ShaneHudson , https://www.brid.gy/facebook/502070145 , etc
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eliemichel Hi! Is there some Firefox plugin that add a "Send webmention" entry to the dialog menu that appear when right-clicking onto links?
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aaronpk that's a neat idea
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eliemichel It could be a very easy way to signal mentions manually
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eliemichel go and see whether it is easy to do a Firefox plugin
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jonnybarnes could that be done with JS? eliemichel
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eliemichel I think so
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eliemichel actually I've never look at that
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eliemichel but as I know how Mozilla loves Web techs, it would not surprise me ;)
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ShaneHudson snarfed: In the preview, it seems to be getting my p-name instead of e-content?
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snarfed ShaneHudson: yeah, the logic is custom per silo. twitter usually uses name/title, facebook usually uses content
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snarfed ShaneHudson: some discussion here: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/228
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ShaneHudson Ah ok, I presume there is no way to manually say which I want to use?
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ShaneHudson Just that my titles are all ids
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aaronpk ShaneHudson: that is called "tweeting" :D
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ShaneHudson Lol you know what I meant :P
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snarfed ShaneHudson: aha. yeah name/title should probably be human-readable: http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry#Properties
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snarfed no way to choose which manually yet, but there's a feature request, finding...
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ShaneHudson Okay, so if I just hide the title on notes then it should work? I didn't want titles at all, but it was a technical issue with the CMS, so can just hide :)
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snarfed ShaneHudson: i was wrong, no feature request. if by hide you mean omit the title from the html, then sure! or feel free to file an FR
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ShaneHudson Ok, will do that :)
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gRegor` Anyone have regex advice for matching relative URLs only? Example in progress: http://www.phpliveregex.com/p/6Mb
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gRegor` I've tried adding (?!http) in the seemingly correct places, but no dice.
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rascul gRegor` gimme a few minutes and i'll take a look at the regex
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gRegor` Thanks
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rascul few as in ~15
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gRegor` np
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gRegor` Use-case is that my webmention code currently extracts full URLs quite well, with/without the a href...
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gRegor` I'm migrating to a new CMS and working on wm code for it. When linking to internal pages it uses relative links...
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gRegor` So i was thinking of just running an additional regex to extract only those relative links, so I could send wm to them.
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gRegor` Wondering if it might just be easier to use DOMxpath, though, and discard duplicates, mailto:, etc.
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gRegor` And also use xpath to take base href into account
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rascul excellent, 15 minutes exactly!
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rascul ahh so you just need the path part of the url, not the host/domain?
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rascul extracted from the <a> tags?
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gRegor` Preferably only relative URLs. In this example, it would ignore the cnn link
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rascul ok i should have something for you shortly
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bret i need a natural language to regex converter
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gRegor` Heh, that would make all of our lives easier.
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gRegor` Siri, what is the regex for...
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bret or at least a longhand version that does not use slashes carrots or dollar signs
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rascul regex can be confusing
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rascul gRegor` check this one http://www.phpliveregex.com/p/6Mc
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rascul and... don't look too long at the regex else you might go blind and/or insane
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rascul oh, not quite there but it looks like it's getting there
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gRegor` Don't think it saved properly. Just shows <a href=('|\ and no results.
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rascul oh hrm
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gRegor` I can see it in the source.
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gRegor` bad escaping, looks like
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gRegor` (on their end)
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gRegor` #xss
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rascul <a href=('|\")?((https?:\/\/)?\S+)?\/?(\S*)('|\")?>.*<\/a>
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rascul almost there i think
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gRegor` Yeah, still capturing the cnn link
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gRegor` You don't have to spend much time on it. I appreciate it, though. :)
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rascul yeah that and the trailing quote
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gRegor` I think I'll give xpath a try
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rascul i don't have much better to do right now :)
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rascul actually though, it may be easier with some bash, grep, sed, cut, and/or awk ;)
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snarfed oh man, xpath and xslt. i remember them fondly…ish. https://github.com/snarfed/misc/blob/master/snipscrape.xslt
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gRegor` :)
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kylewm snarfed: surely in 2004, SnipSnap was not this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SnipSnap
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snarfed kylewm: lol no
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snarfed was a combined blog/wiki engine
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snarfed used to be at http://snipsnap.org/ but no more
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snarfed https://snarfed.org/snipsnap
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snarfed https://snarfed.org/about##SnipSnap
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kylewm heh, cool
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eliemichel Is there any testing page to try and comment a post though webmention and in-reply-to”¯?
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snarfed eliemichel: this is the standard one: https://eschnou.com/entry/testing-indieweb-federation-with-waterpigscouk-aaronpareckicom-and--62-24908.html
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snarfed backstory: http://tantek.com/2013/113/b1/first-federated-indieweb-comment-thread
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eliemichel thx!
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eliemichel So I can flood it with tests?
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snarfed eliemichel: maybe! got me
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eliemichel Oh and if I want to edit a comment, do I have to do something alse than just re-webmentionning the target?
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snarfed eliemichel: technically that's it. in practice though, not everyone supports it
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eliemichel okey
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gRegor` That post requires pingback, IIRC
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eliemichel snarfed: Does your page support webmentions?
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eliemichel gRegor`: ok
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snarfed eliemichel: sure! go nuts
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eliemichel You answered before I asked ^^
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rascul gRegor` to get the regex better seems to be taking awhile and is getting pretty complex
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eliemichel snarfed: can't find the endpoint though
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gRegor` rascul: Yeah, I was afraid of that. Thanks for trying, though!
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snarfed eliemichel: on the eschnou.com page? yeah looks like it's gone. :/ feel free to try on snarfed.org
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rascul gRegor` i'm still going at it but i'm gonna go up to the beer store shortly
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gRegor` Yeah, eschnou is the post requiring pingback. I remember because I was excited to send my first webmention to it and found out I had to build in pingback fallback support :)
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@OnTheWebz RT @t: Updated @falcon (and my site) to use <indie-action> tags, and @adactio updated http://indiewebcamp.com/webactions documentation. (ttk.me t4Y02) (twitter.com/_/status/509476878785060864)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/t/508567952527212545/509476878785060864 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webactions (webmention)
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eliemichel snarfed: I think I added a comment on https://snarfed.org/2014-08-24_your-data-our-data but I can't see it. Are you showing comments automatically?
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@DaveCZombie RT @timretout: This one time, at #indiewebcamp, I got my pump.io notes to send to Twitter, and fixed everyone's https problems. (twitter.com/_/status/509477616672571392)
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snarfed eliemichel: looks good! https://snarfed.org/2014-08-24_your-data-our-data#comment-2583600
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eliemichel =)
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eliemichel Well, I should add a link to an h-card
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eliemichel btw I posted the code here: https://github.com/eliemichel/Replier
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snarfed nice!
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eliemichel The idea is to install it (i.e. just copy files) on your server and use it to reply to IndieWeb entries
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eliemichel note that there is absolutely no CSS for now
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eliemichel well, just enough not to be disgused by my own creation ^^
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snarfed i actually liked your idea of a browser extension. any reason you didn't try that?
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snarfed cross domain issue?
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snarfed actually nm, in a browser extension that shouldn't matter
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rascul gRegor` do the absolute links always have http:// or https:// ?
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eliemichel snarfed: I gonna try it ;)
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eliemichel But I just wanted to finish that
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eliemichel (where 'that' means my code to post comments)
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techlifeweb snarfed: Something odd here when you have a sec... Someone did a quoted retweet of a recent post of mine. Bridgy put it in my comments as expected but it isn't a link back to twitter with the person's name, it's a link to Bridgy. Here is the post my http://techlifeweb.com/social/hopes-for-a-strong-el-nino-fade-in-parched-california/
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techlifeweb expected or did I break something?
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snarfed techlifeweb: may be an old version of the wordpress plugin(s) that don't support u-url. details: https://www.brid.gy/about#appspot
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snarfed if you're using the "indieweb" plugin, it's a bit old. consider uninstalling it and install the webmention and semantic-linkbacks plugins separately (they're not in the wp directory :/)
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snarfed and also consider nudging pfefferle to update the indieweb plugin bundle
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gRegor` rascul: Yeah. I want links starting with / or ../ or just a relative path to the current page.
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snarfed er, scratch that. they are in the directory1 http://wordpress.org/plugins/webmention/
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snarfed http://wordpress.org/plugins/semantic-linkbacks/
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techlifeweb snarfed: thanks. I have to look around, somewhere there are confusing details about the 2 separate plugins vs. the "indieweb" plugin. Something got me believe the "indieweb" one was better.
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snarfed filed: https://github.com/indieweb/wordpress-indieweb/issues/3
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techlifeweb snarfed: Thanks for the speedy help as always. I'll update my WP docs tonight.
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kylewm interesting, I subscribed to gRegor`'s "Indieweb" twitter list in shrewdness, and now my "indieweb" search column shows all posts from it
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kylewm 'twould seem search searches the url as well as the content
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