#indiewebcamp 2014-09-13

2014-09-13 UTC
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bear with proper cache headers you can get most page load times to under 200ms
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bear first page load is always going to be painful - to solve that you need to order your payload so they see something immediately and then a prettier version finishes
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bear if you have a lot of db queries you can help that by always making sure the most recent query is cached in something like memcache or redis and have the page static load that
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bear and then after do the dynamic update
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bear heck, even my static only page takes 1.5 seconds to load - most of that is me not caring how big image files are ;)
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snarfed cacheheaders++
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Loqi cacheheaders has 1 karma
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kylewm bear: i see, yeah, i get a 304 Not Modified from you
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bear yep - cacheheaders++
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bear cacheheaders++
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Loqi cacheheaders has 2 karma
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kylewm ok need to do some reading about that... i thought that only applied to static resources
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bear if your using a database - db query in memcached is your friend
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kylewm bear: does that apply even if the db is sqlite?
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bear yes
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bear IMO
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bear because if you can query memcached for a query statement and pull from memory the json payload then you save a disk round-trip
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bear that also implies that your not doing some serious dynamic stuff on your site
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@benwerd Thinking about organizing a @withknown users meetup in New York next week. What do you think? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/510584928786866176)
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kylewm interesting, thanks!
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bear glad to help
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GWG I keep meaning to do that.
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bear with systems like wordpress it is a plugin IIRC
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bear with PHP it's just adding a wrapper around your data call
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bear if you really want to get fancy you can setup varnish in front of your site
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bear but I don't recommend that unless your user load is causing you to think about moving to a more expensive server
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@withknown RT @benwerd: Thinking about organizing a @withknown users meetup in New York next week. What do you think? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/510586278006362112)
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@bear RT @benwerd: Thinking about organizing a @withknown users meetup in New York next week. What do you think? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/510586344855576576)
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GWG I'd go, but I'm not a Known user
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bear something tells me it will have a big indieweb feel :)
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kylewm GWG: benwerd is nice, I don't think he'd kick you out
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benwerd I mean, for "Known users meetup" I kind of mean "hey, let's get some nice people and go to the pub"
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bear :)
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GWG Well, if I can make it work, I would.
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GWG Unless it is the weekend. My brother is buying a house and I said I'd help evict him.
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kylewm btw, it's a little bit humbling that i can get advice from professional ops people on how to improve performance on my 16 hits per day site
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kylewm bear++
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kylewm indiewebcamp++
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Loqi bear has 23 karma
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kylewm :)
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Loqi indiewebcamp has 2 karma
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GWG I would ask, but I'm afraid I won't understand it.
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bear the joy of knowledge is that it gains more power when shared
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bear goes to the pub to share some beer
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GWG I need to figure out caching as well, kylewm.
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kylewm GWG: it's worth mentioning that tantek doesn't do any of that stuff
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GWG kylewm: Tantek isn't a typical person though
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bear a php solution i've seen others use - http://www.phpfastcache.com/
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bear and it's on github so you can always read the code
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kylewm GWG: lol, no he is unqiue
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GWG bear: I'm using the built in Wordpress cache, which I've overloaded to Memcache
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GWG I was trying to figure out browser caching
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bear yep - i've used memcached with wordpress often - to help folks avoid server load issues
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bear browser cache == etag support
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bear it may be called ETag support in WP land
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GWG bear: I added it. Also a plugin
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snarfed GWG: afaik there isn't really a built in wordpress cache per se, as much as an incomplete framework that plugins use to implement an actual cache
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bear goes to the pub
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bear i'll be back later
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snarfed GWG: http://codex.wordpress.org/WordPress_Optimization/Caching
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GWG snarfed: It got better, I thought, after they added garbage collection
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GWG Besides, Nginx caches the output from Wordpress for me
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snarfed maybe. afaik it's still not an actual caching solution
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snarfed aha, right, that works then
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kylewm so one thing that's kind of crazy
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kylewm i was reading a Dave Winer post today that said he uses heroku with amazon s3 as his datastore
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kylewm like for text
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kylewm i'm surprised that works
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Loqi [mention] http://tomkeays.withknown.com/2014/after-listening-to-the-latest-this-week-in-google-with linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (webmention)
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@AndyNortrup @JoeyBrunelle head about this today and thought you might be interested. #indieweb @withknown http://withknown.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/510595553952952320)
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acegiak oohhh
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acegiak I just realised whisperfollow could aggregate my podcasts for me
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@petrnew I think I will try known soon! -> #IndieWeb launch #Known so #bloggers can be social and still control their content https://gigaom.com/2014/09/11/indieweb-advocates-launch-known-so-bloggers-can-be-social-and-still-control-their-content/ (twitter.com/_/status/510603777137995777)
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@JimVajda Testing out @withknown a social platform where you actually own your content. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/510606093769506817)
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@JimVajda Testing out @withknown a social platform where you actually own your content. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/510607954559520768)
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tantek__ hello from the ace
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acegiak that hilighted me :P
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acegiak I should probably remove that hilight condition
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Loqi fo sho
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ben_thatmust__ hey guys
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acegiak oooh. and I could do my own youtube subscriptions too!
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ben_thatmust__ quiet night
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ben_thatmust_ kylewm, i think i found the problem with webmention
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ben_thatmust_ who wrote the indieweb/mention-client-php?
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@petrnew Will you try!? -> #IndieWeb advocates launch #Known so #bloggers can be social and still control their content https://gigaom.com/2014/09/11/indieweb-advocates-launch-known-so-bloggers-can-be-social-and-still-control-their-content/ (twitter.com/_/status/510630701172269056)
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@aaronpk @collision @jacobian @dreev @thatgirl 7:30? I've got breakfast at 8:30. You're invited too of course! http://known.kevinmarks.com/2014/indieweb-xoxo-breakfast (twitter.com/_/status/510636272965017600)
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ben_thatmust_ !tell barnabywalters kylewm said he doesn't receive webmentions from you either. His endpoint link is relative, thats what was causing it for me.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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tantek I just manually POSSEd an indie comment to a WordPress blog: http://tantek.dev/2014/255/t2/well-deserved-talented-known-minor-correction
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ben_thatmust_ that links doesn't work for me, localmachine url?
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ben_thatmust_ s/links/link/
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Loqi ben_thatmust_ meant to say: that link doesn't work for me, localmachine url?
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tantek oops yeah tantek.com
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aaronpk_ Oh yay this must mean tantek is using his local dev environment ;-)
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Loqi yay!
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tantek aaronpk++ seriously, so good aaronpk. thanks so much.
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Loqi aaronpk has 560 karma
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tantek now we just need to document the setup!
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tantek ;)
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tantek "just"
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ben_thatmust_ nice tantek. I need to set up something for syndication links that I don't have an image for
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tantek ben_thatmust_: yeah I had to write small bit of new Falcon code, and two new cassis.js functions
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ben_thatmust_ I feel like i'm finially catching up on my todo list for my site
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ben_thatmust_ now that I have basically abandoned the admin interface in favor of micropub
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tantek ben_thatmust_: that reply-context thread implementation is amazing
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tantek way to go from zero to top of the class on /reply-context !
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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ben_thatmust_ i had links, but they were barely visible
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ben_thatmust_ thanks :)
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ben_thatmust_ i want to get jamming on really fleshing out all the features of my micropub client next
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ben_thatmust_ the whole contact list bit keeps getting pushed a little further back each time
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aaronpk_ "abandoned my admin interface in favor of micropub" 👍 yes! That's awesome!
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tantek indeed!
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tantek cassis functions pushed to head
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ben_thatmust_ basically. I really only post notes thus far, articles are rare though I don't support that yet through micropub. I post a ton more now that I have that interface
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aaronpk_ Awesome.
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ben_thatmust_ and all my photos i do through instagram -> ownyourgram
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tantek wow
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ben_thatmust_ aaronpk_ is the webmention-client-php your doing?
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ben_thatmust_ guess i could have just checked github, looks like it
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aaronpk_ I believe so
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ben_thatmust_ i made a push request, there are two parts that you can ignore, i was just playing with features. the important bit is that kylewm wasn't receiving mentions from me
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ben_thatmust_ his endpoint was a relative url, so it never worked
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aaronpk_ Ok cool!
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aaronpk_ Will take a look soon
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aaronpk_ I'm not actually at a computer right now
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ben_thatmust_ i tend to guess that with anyone with _ at the end of their name
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aaronpk_ :-)
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aaronpk_ Turns out the web chat interface is better on mobile than Limechat :-)
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ben_thatmust_ i use it on my home machine too. Its just much easier than firing up a client
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tantek looks like Twitter broke or took down one of their logo image permalinks: https://dev.twitter.com/sites/default/files/images_documentation/bird_black_16_0.png
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tantek !tell voxpelli looks like Twitter removed this image https://dev.twitter.com/sites/default/files/images_documentation/bird_black_16_0.png which I noticed you were/are using too: https://github.com/voxpelli/node-webmention-testpinger/blob/master/templates/tantek-com.html#L68
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek !tell voxpelli looks like the new URL is https://g.twimg.com/dev/sites/default/files/images_documentation/bird_black_16_0.png
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek !tell voxpelli and pull request: https://github.com/voxpelli/node-webmention-testpinger/pull/8 (figured I might as well since I figured out the rest ;) )
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /webmention (+129) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ update status of my implementation." (view diff)
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ben_thatmust_ okay, damn late here, heading to bed
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ben_thatmust_ goodnight all
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Loqi see you in the morning!
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ben_thatmust_ Loqi seems to have gotten a lot smarter lately
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Loqi is done
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@Andy_Dudzik A way to own your web content instead of giving it away to Facebook and Twitter https://gigaom.com/2014/09/11/indieweb-advocates-launch-known-so-bloggers-can-be-social-and-still-control-their-content/ (twitter.com/_/status/510650939561504768)
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Loqi [mention] http://charlesbartlett.net/indie-web-trend/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://charlesbartlett.net/indie-web-trend/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (pingback)
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tantek I've switched my rel=syndication link icons from hotlinking (e.g. the abovementioned Twitter URLs) to using icons from the "symbol" set inside the free WTFPL download of icons at http://rog.ie/blog/free-social-media-icons
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@bartlettcharles What is Indie Web and where is it going? http://charlesbartlett.net/indie-web-trend/ #indieweb #known #POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/510661177764888576)
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@t going to IndieWeb XOXO Breakfast Sat 8:30 Meat Cheese Bread event http://known.kevinmarks.com/2014/indieweb-xoxo-breakfast silo: https://www.facebook.com/events/1475412386074562/ (ttk.me t4Y53) (twitter.com/_/status/510664878391316480)
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tantek I wonder if Bridgy Publish to FB handles RSVP's to Events
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tantek let's find out (using this indie RSVP that has a in-reply-to to a FB event: http://tantek.com/2014/255/t3/going-indieweb-xoxo-breakfast )
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@DestinyLiberman RT @t: going to IndieWeb XOXO Breakfast Sat 8:30 Meat Cheese Bread event http://known.kevinmarks.com/2014/indieweb-xoxo-breakfast silo: https://www.facebook.com/events/1475412386074562/ (ttk.me t4Y53) (twitter.com/_/status/510666431080706048)
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snarfed tantek: it does. https://www.brid.gy/about#like
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tantek snarfed wow that worked! https://www.facebook.com/events/1475412386074562/
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tantek I mean, it did RSVP yes for me, but no permalink
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tantek but I suppose that can't be helped
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tantek FB limitation
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snarfed right
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tantek amazing, including nice detail like the preview on brid.gy
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snarfed thanks!
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neuro` Good morning
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snarfed morning!
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tantek first time I've used Bridgy publish to RSVP to a FB event (instead of clicking the "Join" button). Very cool.
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snarfed glad to hear it!
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@kevinmarks Welcome to the #indieweb http://tomkeays.withknown.com/2014/after-listening-to-the-latest-this-week-in-google-with (twitter.com/_/status/510670178565095424)
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KevinMarks I have a Facebook RSVP from myself to my own indieweb event
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tantek.com edited /2014/UK/Schedule (+71) "direct link to demo sessions" (view diff)
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@fdevillamil The lines aren't moving yet but for sure something's happening with the #indieweb movement. Still a tech savvy people thing but exciting. (twitter.com/_/status/510672623488212992)
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@fdevillamil 1. The lines aren't moving yet but for sure something's happening with the #indieweb movement. Still a tech savvy people thing but exciting. (twitter.com/_/status/510674030563950593)
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@mbauwens RT @JockelLohkamp: ..heading for a #decentralized #Internet... http://www.dw.de/were-heading-for-a-decentralized-internet-but-will-we-get-there-by-2015/a-17522868 #GETDBerlin #indieweb #IoT #P2P (twitter.com/_/status/510674510635618304)
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colintedford.com edited /Python (+14) "/* Bear */ typos, link projects" (view diff)
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@lana_VK RT @bartlettcharles: What is Indie Web and where is it going? http://charlesbartlett.net/indie-web-trend/ #indieweb #known #POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/510676573704302592)
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colintedford.com edited /Python (+23) "/* Kyle Mahan */ links, typo" (view diff)
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@tryberg This article also explains more about known cc @VivHodgson https://gigaom.com/2014/09/11/indieweb-advocates-launch-known-so-bloggers-can-be-social-and-still-control-their-content/ (twitter.com/_/status/510679935816843265)
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@nitot RT @kevinmarks: Welcome to the #indieweb http://tomkeays.withknown.com/2014/after-listening-to-the-latest-this-week-in-google-with (twitter.com/_/status/510680646227095552)
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@elliottucker @benwerd curious to know how you're doing webmentions on hosted Known. Do you have your own brid.gy like service? (twitter.com/_/status/510690395731554304)
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Haxxa Hi :)
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Haxxa Can anyone explain the difference between the indieweb and say using wordpress, by using wordpress on my own domain don"t I already have control of my data how does the indieweb vary?
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@tryberg @RikkeToftN @chrdalsgaard tror man ka oprette en side her http://withknown.com/#top - der er nogle spændende tanker bag https://gigaom.com/2014/09/11/indieweb-advocates-launch-known-so-bloggers-can-be-social-and-still-control-their-content/ (twitter.com/_/status/510732373496168448)
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christopheducamp.com edited /WordPress-fr (+19300) "[fr: translation sync'd with original - révisions & corrections bienvenues]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com edited /WordPress-fr (+13) "/* webmention */ typo" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme hey Haxxa, still around?
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tommorris.org edited /Facebook (+356) "/* Criticism */ First they came for the drag queens..." (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] http://robertritz.withknown.com/2014/im-just-getting-start-with-withknowncom-want-to-control-your linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (webmention)
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Haxxa ben_thatmustbeme yes
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Haxxa sorry for late responce
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Haxxa Is "known" the biggest project out of this indie web thing?
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kylewm Haxxa: hi welcome :) lots of people do use wordpress (with plugins) to indieweb.
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Haxxa So indieweb is just a term for running your own web away from companies that hold data
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kylewm I wouldn't say that
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kylewm that's certainly part of it
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kylewm another is to push the UX of owning and hosting your data forward, so that it's actually appaealing :)
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rascul http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress#Adding_Indieweb_Support.2FElements_to_a_Wordpress_Site
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kylewm so for example commenting on your own site and sending a webmention to the article you are replying to
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Haxxa what is the indieweb then, owning your own piece of the web - how is known which runs data on thier own severs clasing that as indieweb
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "the indieweb then, owning your own piece of the web - how is known which runs data on thier own severs clasing that as indieweb" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=the+indieweb+then%2C+owning+your+own+piece+of+the+web+-+how+is+known+which+runs+data+on+thier+own+severs+clasing+that+as+indieweb
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kylewm Known can be hosted on withknown.com or run on your own server
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Haxxa so using third party sources like facebook but taking it and keeping it as a backup on my own site is the indie web? could the indieweb not just be defined as running your own lamp server
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kylewm (ignore Loqi)
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rascul http://indiewebcamp.com/web_hosting#Is_using_3rd_party_hosting_still_indieweb
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kylewm ideally you would post to your own site first, and syndicate to sources like facebook
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kylewm not the other way around
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kylewm and eventually, improve your site to the point where facebook is a way people consume your content if they want to, but you don't ever have to deal with it
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kylewm Haxxa: have you read the first section of http://indiewebcamp.com/ ?
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Haxxa I did it raised more questions than answers I learned about syndication etc. but the indieweb itself seems an obscure concept which isn't really defined directly
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Loqi [mention] http://simon.withknown.com/2014/returning-to-blogging---after-nearly-10-years linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Haxxa Is it basically taking your content and making it your own rather than some random company that controls it?
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Haxxa SO do most people here use known?
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kylewm owning your data is part of it, it's all about incremental progress though
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rascul many of us have written, or are in the process of writing our own software to run our sites, but there are some who use known or other solutions
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kylewm see http://indiewebcamp.com/Projects
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Haxxa I want a more coherent mix between G+, FB & Twitter - does the indieweb - (known project) some how offer that
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Loqi gives Haxxa a more coherent mix between G
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kylewm how do you mean more coherent?
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Haxxa They are intergrated so post to one = post to all or something like that - not really sure but the usage of so many different social networks kind of sucks
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kylewm gotcha, yeah totally. you post to your own site, syndicate to social networks, and then via Bridgy comments and likes come back to your site
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kylewm (except G+ doesn't have a write API, so it is more difficult to POSSE to)
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Haxxa somewhat but also so my non tech savy friends have some idea what is going on
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Haxxa also won't they just get annoyed they have to respond elsewhere and just not respond if its not on service they are use to...
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kylewm some people (esp wordpress users) keep native comments enabled for that reason
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kylewm so that if someone is actually reading your site, they don't have to go to facebook or twitter to respond
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Haxxa If they comment on facebook though will it show on my site?
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Haxxa I was thinking of using know btw..
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Haxxa *...
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kylewm that is what Bridgy does
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kylewm it backfeeds silo comments back to your site
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kylewm https://www.brid.gy/
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kylewm definitely check out Known, would you self-host?
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Haxxa Is that used as a part os the source code of known and I guess as plugin for wordpress
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Haxxa *of the
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Haxxa Yer I would Self Host
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kylewm what's your URL?
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Haxxa My URL is my name+ .com
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kylewm definitely give Known a shot. if you have any trouble setting it up, youre welcome to ask questions here of course
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kylewm I use my own software for my main site, but i set up a known install to play with http://known.kylewm.com/ :)
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Haxxa Say I don't like known in the future (its not verstile enough - or support dwindles) could I say just import all in to wordpress
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kylewm that's a question for benwerd. i know import from wordpress is coming soon, but i don't know how hard it is to export to wp
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Haxxa fair enough
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Haxxa bye
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kylewm good luck
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@SiteSuite IndieWeb advocates launch Known so bloggers can be social and still control their content https://gigaom.com/2014/09/11/indieweb-advocates-launch-known-so-bloggers-can-be-social-and-still-control-their-content/ (twitter.com/_/status/510794144495964160)
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@rowiro …just set up my Known (@WithKnown). ⇢ http://rowiro.withknown.com #IndieWeb #Blog https://twitter.com/rowiro/status/510796518174261248/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/510796518174261248)
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Loqi [mention] http://mat.withknown.com/2014/known linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://mat.withknown.com/2014/moving-to-known linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://mat.withknown.com/2014/moving-to-known-1 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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@rowiro What is Indie Web & where is it going? #IndieWeb Trend Future | by @bartlettcharles | http://charlesbartlett.net/indie-web-trend/ (twitter.com/_/status/510802833395163136)
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kylewm PSA: freenode recommending that everyone change their password... https://twitter.com/freenodestaff/status/510802348579377152
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@freenodestaff For now, we recommend that every change their NickServ password as a precaution. (twitter.com/_/status/510802348579377152)
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@stephenwdaniels Trying to figure out some of this indieweb stuff. (twitter.com/_/status/510815264980471810)
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GWG kylewm: Why? Breach?
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kylewm yep, sounds like it
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@withknown RT @tante: So if you are into the indieweb but still like integration with other networks @withknown (http://withknown.com) is actually … (twitter.com/_/status/510817922462150656)
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@timweston RT @tante: So if you are into the indieweb but still like integration with other networks @withknown (http://withknown.com) is actually … (twitter.com/_/status/510818534260097024)
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@kevinmarks RT @tante: So if you are into the indieweb but still like integration with other networks @withknown (http://withknown.com) is actually … (twitter.com/_/status/510821001438175233)
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@kevinmarks “the IndieWeb… really brings back memories of the excitement and passion that the nascent years of the Web .. http://known.kevinmarks.com/2014/the-indieweb-really-brings-back-memories-of-the-excitement-and (twitter.com/_/status/510822258130964481)
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@mathewi RT @kevinmarks: “the IndieWeb… really brings back memories of the excitement and passion that the nascent years of the Web .. http://t.co/7… (twitter.com/_/status/510823498034708481)
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@RecommTweet RT @kevinmarks: “the IndieWeb… really brings back memories of the excitement and passion that the nascent years of the Web .. http://t.co/7… (twitter.com/_/status/510823637017165824)
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@donpark RT @kevinmarks: “the IndieWeb… really brings back memories of the excitement and passion that the nascent years of the Web .. http://t.co/7… (twitter.com/_/status/510824642592792576)
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@davidmead RT @kevinmarks: “the IndieWeb… really brings back memories of the excitement and passion that the nascent years of the Web .. http://t.co/7… (twitter.com/_/status/510830282019454976)
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jonnybarnes aaronpk: Loqi just messed up posting a tweet
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@donpark @kevinmarks @bmann @withknown what major features does Known add to IndieWeb beyond what Wordpress has? puzzled. (twitter.com/_/status/510831415399690240)
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@deanna #indieweb meetup (at @MeatCheeseBread in Portland, OR w/ @kevinmarks) https://www.swarmapp.com/deanna/checkin/5414765a498e2f88a7846ca9?s=Fsu7_AHprC_rk_maqWOj1GyXHi4&ref=tw (twitter.com/_/status/510833482093068288)
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pmortensen.eu edited /why (+29) "Grammar. Spelling (ref. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmail>). Expansion." (view diff)
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kylewm jonnybarnes: what'd Loqi mess up?
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Loqi who, me?
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pmortensen.eu edited /why (+10) "/* Content theft */ Expansion." (view diff)
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pmortensen.eu edited /Getting_Started (-8) "/* Getting Started on the IndieWeb */ Grammar. Spelling consistency, etc." (view diff)
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jonnybarnes kylewm: it put the url http://t.co/7...
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jonnybarnes which isnt a valid url
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@kyle_wm Sorry https://indiewebcamp.com/database-antipattern , #SQLite is my jam (twitter.com/_/status/510838926592847872)
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Loqi [mention] https://kylewm.com/note/2014/09/13/3/sorry-database-antipattern-https linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/database-antipattern (webmention)
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kylewm jonnybarnes: acccctually https://github.com/snarfed/activitystreams-unofficial/issues/21
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kylewm maybe it's that?
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kylewm wait, no, dumb. i forgot loqi doesn't use a-u
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pmortensen.eu edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+102) "Spelling consistency. Article spelling/case." (view diff)
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@kevinmarks @donpark @bmann @withknown is built on the #indieweb specs including webmention and micropub, so brings these to more than just hobbyists (twitter.com/_/status/510843522795073536)
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pmortensen.eu edited /why (+2) "/* see also */ Subsection and article spelling/case. Removed link "Objections" because it redirects to FAQ which is also linked here." (view diff)
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pmortensen.eu edited /short-domains (+0) "More standard spelling/cased for section and sub section titles." (view diff)
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pmortensen.eu created /Talk:why (+264) "Half-broken link" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu wassup Loqi?
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@torystarr3 IndieWeb advocates launch Known so bloggers can be social and still control their content https://gigaom.com/2014/09/11/indieweb-advocates-launch-known-so-bloggers-can-be-social-and-still-control-their-content/ cc @dankennedy_nu (twitter.com/_/status/510850349826330624)
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pmortensen.eu edited /Getting_Started (+17) "Copy edited." (view diff)
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bret morning
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bret going to try and clean some things up on my site today
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neuro` God morning tantek bret
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bret everyone is off at xoxo and i failed to sneak in XD
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tantek good morning neuro` !
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kyle_wm/510838926592847872/2149850018 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/database-antipattern (webmention)
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tantek bret - Kevin Kelly is talking, claimed FB will be first billion customer company. I disagree: https://twitter.com/t/status/510851258752978944
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@t Kevin Kelly @xoxo: Facebook will be "first billion customer company".FB users are not customers. FB advertisers are. (ttk.me t4Y61) (twitter.com/_/status/510851258752978944)
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bret Sheesh, lets hope not
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bret tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 76 karma
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bret nice reality check there
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alanpearce shudders
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KartikPrabhu didn't G+ already claim over a billion accounts or something
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KartikPrabhu ref: https://plus.google.com/+DustinStout/posts/4AkfWSsjeh1
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bret ps its really easy to delete your facebook and never look back
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pmortensen.eu edited /Blogger (+18) "Expansion (to avoid confusion with "IP address"). Spelling consistency. Some copy editing." (view diff)
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alanpearce Indeed. I don't even remember doing it, it was such a non-event.
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bret i love the guilt page though they show you on the way out. "So and so will miss you!" "This person will miss you!"
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bret they try to equate facebook to actual relationships
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bret wish I grabbed a screenshot
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bret My friend had died earlier that year and they had his picture up and was like "He'll miss you!"
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alanpearce wow.
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KartikPrabhu ughh bad
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neuro` So how's Xoxo going?
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@caseorganic @kevinmarks @kevin2kelly Now I want to make an #indieweb Zine - printed and distributed, explaining things like SSL and other weird things. (twitter.com/_/status/510855536532000768)
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pmortensen.eu edited /projects (+18) "Spelling consistency. Some copy editing (e.g. ref. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Tony1/How_to_improve_your_writing#Misplaced_formality>.)." (view diff)
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tantek so Thinkup does analysis and stats on your Twitter? sounds like we need an indie thinkup that does the same for your own website. @xoxo
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KartikPrabhu tantek: what kind of stats does one do on an indiewebsite?
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tantek obvious stuff from posting frequency, to how often do you "thank" people
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tantek how often you use the words "I, me" to talk about yourself
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tantek how often you drop f-bombs
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tantek (month over month comparison)
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KartikPrabhu interesting. personally don't see the use of doing such stats myself... but can be of interest to others it seems
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tantek expects aaronpk to have indiethinkup built as open source by the end of the day
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tantek KartikPrabhu: it's a tool for self-reflection and insight. how are you spending your time?
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kylewm just so long as nobody builds indieklout
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@kevinmarks #xoxo @ginatrapani: How do we build a better web? Get in touch with me! [join us at http://indiewebcamp.com Gina] (twitter.com/_/status/510858458069872641)
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pmortensen.eu edited /Blogger (+0) "/* Issues */ Spelling." (view diff)
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bret kylewm i unfollow people I see posting klout links
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alanpearce tantek: impressive summoning there
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aaronpk_ Man I gotta fix the zooming issue on this web interface
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tantek alanpearce: what happened?
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alanpearce You summoned aaronpk_ :)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/510858458069872641/4593131 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/510858458069872641/5243 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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aaronpk_ Think up used to be open source and had a plugin architecture you could write things for
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aaronpk_ Unless I'm thinking of something else
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aaronpk_ I installed it at one point
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gRegor` Was there a password leak with Freenode, or did I just get a general reminder to update passwords?
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gRegor` I only saw apparently the second half of the message, explaining how to update the password
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@kevinmarks #xoxo @golan: This is a metaphor for corporate silos - the work we have to do to make them interoperate #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/510859499804950528)
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aaronpk_ Maybe this indie think up could be built on top of the crawler I apparently have to write now
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pmortensen.eu edited /h-card (+92) "Expansion. Spelling consistency." (view diff)
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kylewm gRegor`: evidence that there was unauthorized access
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kylewm https://twitter.com/freenodestaff/status/510802237157691393
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@freenodestaff of the server being compromised by an unknown third party. We immediately started an investigation to map the extent of the problem (twitter.com/_/status/510802237157691393)
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gRegor` k. thanks
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/kevinmarks/510858458069872641/510859993369673729 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/510858458069872641/12920742 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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@StephenYoung RT @kevinmarks: #xoxo @ginatrapani: How do we build a better web? Get in touch with me! [join us at http://indiewebcamp.com Gina] (twitter.com/_/status/510861924440227840)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/kevinmarks/510858458069872641/510861924440227840 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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bret woot. fixed my permalinks again
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Loqi giggles
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pmortensen.eu created /User:Pmortensen.eu (+504) "Initial." (view diff)
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pmortensen.eu edited /2014/Berlin/Day-2 (+0) "/* Sunday, June 29, 2014 */ Spelling (ref. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GitHub>)." (view diff)
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pmortensen.eu edited /2014 (+0) "/* Other Activities */ Spelling/case." (view diff)
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pmortensen.eu edited /marginalia (+2) "/* Post */ Spelling consistecy, etc." (view diff)
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pmortensen.eu edited /marginalia (+0) "/* Code */ Spelling/case." (view diff)
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pmortensen.eu edited /creator (+110) "Spelling consistency. Expansion. Some copy editing." (view diff)
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pmortensen.eu edited /marginalia (+10) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Copy edited." (view diff)
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pmortensen.eu edited /creator (-7) "/* See also */ Removed the third link as it now redirects to "design" which is the seond link in this list." (view diff)
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pmortensen.eu edited /design (+9) "Copy edited. Expansion. Spelling consistency." (view diff)
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pmortensen.eu edited /marginalia (+0) "/* Criticism */ Copy edited." (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu pmortensen.com is on a major wiki scrubbing spree
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KartikPrabhu s/.com/.eu
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Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: pmortensen.eu is on a major wiki scrubbing spree
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pmortensen.eu edited /2014/Berlin/Day-2 (-3) "Spelling consistency." (view diff)
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techlifeweb Reading through todays log a bit. I feel like we really need some kind of block diagram that describes what is happening with indieweb and maybe what the various pieces do. LIke, I post on my site, including some microformats and webmentions then do Y. people comment and bridgy does Y.
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techlifeweb s/webmentions then do Y/webmentions then do X
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Loqi techlifeweb meant to say: Reading through todays log a bit. I feel like we really need some kind of block diagram that describes what is happening with indieweb and maybe what the various pieces do. LIke, I post on my site, including some microformats and webmentions then do X. people comment and bridgy does Y.
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pmortensen.eu edited /IRC (+27) "Some copy editing. Expansion. Spelling consistency." (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] http://jeffporter.withknown.com/2014/the-story-so-far-with-known linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://jeffporter.withknown.com/2014/the-story-so-far-with-known linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://jeffporter.withknown.com/2014/the-story-so-far-with-known linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmentions (webmention)
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KartikPrabhu techlifeweb: you mean in response to "how is this different from wordpress" type questions?
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pmortensen.eu edited /discovery (+51) "Spelling consistency. Expansion. Copy edited." (view diff)
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pmortensen.eu edited /User:Pmortensen.eu (+50) "Added a new sub section, for interesting pages on this site." (view diff)
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pmortensen.eu edited /buttons (-2) "Spelling consistency." (view diff)
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GWG is wet
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GWG But walking in the rain has given me new thoughts
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techlifeweb KartikPrabhu: some. There was an exchange earlier between Haxxa and kylewm that seems like maybe could have been cleared up a bit with a picture.
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GWG techlifeweb, I wanted to have a chat with you.
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techlifeweb GWG: Ok. I have to go in a few mins though
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kylewm it's difficult to describe to someone who just wants you to fill in the blank "indieweb is just ______"
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GWG You are one of the people who uses WordPress here. What do you feel is missing?
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techlifeweb kylewm: Yes, I got the "is there a plugin for wordpress" question yesterday and there is so much more than that.
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KartikPrabhu techlifeweb: kylewm: also people seem to want a "precise definition" of what indieweb is, and how it is different. I doubt that can be done
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GWG The Indieweb is like painting lines to tell people where to cross the street
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techlifeweb GWG: missing...hmm... let me think on that.
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GWG techlifeweb, I am still working on some of it.
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techlifeweb GWG: Well, inresponse so something kylewm said on my site I worte: "Until everything is decentralized (which I don’t think will happen anytime soon) it is too easy to just click ‘favorite’ on twitter. If a simple click could create something here then this will really get going. "http://techlifeweb.com/social/indieweb/#comment-59
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GWG techlifeweb I am trying to get there.
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/510858458069872641/273936229 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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techlifeweb GWG: that would be cool.
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GWG techlifeweb, not close
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/kyle_wm/510838926592847872/510879864388587520 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/database-antipattern (webmention)
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techlifeweb GWG: I have a weird issue of when I webmention something they show up with the wrong time on the other site. Not sure if that is me my markup or Wordpress.
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GWG techlifeweb, the initial problem for me id teaching WordPress about relationships.
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techlifeweb GWG: relationships?
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GWG techlifeweb, replies likes etc.
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techlifeweb GWG: Going to lunch in a few minutes. I'll think about it.
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GWG techlifeweb, I'll be around
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techlifeweb GWG: yes, that's it. Most of it has to do with friction or lack of ease of use between having to go to mysite to do a quick reply to something on a silo.
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techlifeweb That is kind of what I was saying earlier. Owning your content is about posting to your site first and that takes a bit to get your mind around at first for a new user. Especially non-tech folks.
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GWG techlifeweb thst is the problem I'm trying to work on
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GWG I don't know if I am on the best path
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techlifeweb I end up saying, is this favorite or like something I'm going to care about later? If no, click the button on the silo. If yes, go to my site and POSSE.
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GWG Hi KartikPrabhu
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KartikPrabhu hi
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techlifeweb GWG: did you see my last comment? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-09-13/line/1410638821538
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GWG techlifeweb, yes. It should be seamless
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techlifeweb Hard to know if you are on the right path. Build, test, modify or throw out.
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techlifeweb We keep learnng.
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GWG techlifeweb, I build, test, rebuild, break into small pieces, rebuild...
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techlifeweb yep
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GWG Right now, I am working on fixing something that I broke
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GWG Which will break something else when I am done
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techlifeweb GWG: I'll try and test your stuff. Right now I've been hacking on my wordpress install a bit. Breaking things. It's how I learn best and try to document so I can help others later.
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GWG I enjoy reading how people have done things.
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GWG I study my fellow campers
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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techlifeweb Me too.
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GWG For example, I am rebuilding my syndication links system and studying kylewm, tantek, aaronpk, barnabywalters, etc for inspiration
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techlifeweb I really should test Known to see how their doing things from the user side.
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GWG I looked at other people's known sites
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techlifeweb Yes but you kind of need to know how you like or reply to something via Known. May spur some ideas.
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GWG I may give it a try
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GWG For WordPress, I want to play with the new API. I think it will change a lot
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techlifeweb I'm out. Talk to you later.
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GWG ok
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tantek good afternoon indiewebcamp!
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tantek kylewm: perhaps we can capture Haxx's confusion/question in the form of simple questions to add to the /FAQ
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neuro` Good night tantek
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Loqi see you in the morning!
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tantek let's try this
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tantek what is the indieweb?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "the indieweb" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=the+indieweb
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tantek.com created /the_indieweb (+22) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /How_to_set_up_web_sign-in_on_your_own_domain (-96) "change intro text to be more welcoming, contextually relevant" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /indieweb (+275) "expand definition to include key indieweb essentials, more See Also" (view diff)
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tantek kylewm, techlifeweb_ - how's this?
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tantek what is the indieweb?
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Loqi The indieweb is about owning your domain and using it as your primary identity, to publish on your own site (optionally syndicate elsewhere), and ownyourdata http://indiewebcamp.com/the_indieweb
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tantek GWG - you too
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GWG Me too what?
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GWG What did I do?
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KartikPrabhu GWG: tantek means to review the edit up there ^^^
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tantek GWG - what do you think of this definition of the indie web if/when people ask?
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tantek what is the indieweb?
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Loqi The indieweb is about owning your domain and using it as your primary identity, to publish on your own site (optionally syndicate elsewhere), and ownyourdata http://indiewebcamp.com/the_indieweb
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GWG tantek: Didn't you just define hosted known as not indieweb?
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tantek GWG - depends, if you set it up behind your own domain or not.
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KartikPrabhu tantek: it seems the current trend is to have "myname.withknown.com
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GWG I just hate to stop the momentum. This week's Known interview likely started a bunch of interest.
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GWG KartikPrabhu: exactly.
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tantek GWG - principles are more important than momentum.
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tantek we should not be afraid of making it clear what is and is not indieweb.
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tantek KartikPrabhu: that's no "current" trend, that's an *established* trend
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tantek myname.tumblr, myname.blogspot, myname.wordpress(.)com etc.
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KartikPrabhu tantek I meantr current trend to using known even though known can be selfhosted
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tantek KartikPrabhu: yes, that's the try before you indie option.
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GWG Does hosted Known allow for a domain name?
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tantek GWG, yes. per known.kylewm.com, known.kevinmarks.com etc.
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tantek pretty sure those are all hosted, rather than installed.
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bear no one person will go from silo-only to indieweb nirvana in one step - making each of the principles of indieweb achievable thru different paths and without restrictions on order is a good thing IMO
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GWG tantek, by the way, what is going on with your site and SSL?
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tantek GWG - /https level 2
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GWG tantek: The image next to view on twitter is not showing because it is coming from https, which has an unrecognized certificate.
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GWG bear: I feel like this should be encapsulized in the Zen of Indieweb.
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bear Tao of Indieweb
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bear their are multiple paths to indieweb, which you travel and when is not as important as the fact that you are on the path
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snarfed hey tantek, re indie thinkup, did you see https://snarfed.org/indie-stats ?
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snarfed different use case, but very similar plumbing. if we built indie stats, we'd probably have most of indie thinkup already done too
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GWG bear: I think that statement should be on the wiki
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bear snarfed - sign me up for whatever infra help you need for that project
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tantek GWG - oops!
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tantek re: https twitter icon image.
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tantek good catch
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bear that is the fun of https level 2 - finding all the http:// hard code bits
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snarfed bear: thanks!
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GWG tantek, I've been studying syndication links
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tantek bear - not hardcoded, but a side-effect of me redirecting my admin UI to https
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bear ah
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GWG Also On, View On, icons...
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bear snarfed - we could start by gathering a list of url's, storing header and the json from mf2 call
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bear then later when number crunching types get into the act they will have data to work on
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alanpearce Stats would be cool :)
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snarfed bear: sure, sgtm! re infra, simplest thing to start would probably be offline cron job that generates and uploads static html, once a day or so
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alanpearce Hopefully my search tool will be able to get some as well :)
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bear hmm, I think I just nerdsniped my afternoon
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: could indie-stats be used to auto compute IndieMark points?
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alanpearce Oh, I would love an indiemark calculator!
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: maybe, but definitely not my use case. indiemark isn't really my bag personally
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snarfed but happy for others too!
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bear that could be a consumer of the data I would imagine
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KartikPrabhu yes
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alanpearce Seems like the key thing is acquiring data.
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bear i'm firing up my editor now
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alanpearce Then we can do all the things.
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bear will get a basic "pull IRC People from wiki, make a list", "crawl list", "store data" version
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snarfed bear: awesome!
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snarfed the other source of seed domains that would be great is all domains that have attempted to log into IndieAuth
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snarfed i think aaronpk said he'd be ok with providing that
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bear well, phase 2 could be some sort of webaction frontend to this list
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bear so people can ping it to get added
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bear can I use "indie-stats" as a github repo name snarfed?
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snarfed bear: of course!
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snarfed updated https://snarfed.org/indie-stats with info about the indie thinkup idea too
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bear cool
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bear your fast on that star ;)
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snarfed :P
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kylewm little clarification, known.kylewm.com is digital ocean. Kevin's is hosted on withknown
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tantek_ GWG - fixed. reload.
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tantek_ huh
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tantek_ kylewm: perhaps clairfy that on /Known#IndieWeb_Examples ?
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tantek_ 131 in IRC - have we broken 130 before?
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tantek_ snarfed, thanks for capturing / blogging https://snarfed.org/indie-stats - very cool
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@NawafAlThani My first post on #Known .. #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/510906846052237312)
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tantek !tell snarfed I'm having an odd issue with Bridgy Publish to FB that I'm not sure is my fault or a bug in Bridgy Publish. It seems to only be grabbing the name of my recent blog post, and not the e-content.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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snarfed1 tantek: yup, that's actually intentional
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snarfed1 we went back and forth on it
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snarfed1 discussion in https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/228
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snarfed1 feedback welcome!
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snarfed tantek: probably one good improvement would be to use the content if it's a note, and the title if it's an article…?
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Loqi snarfed: tantek left you a message 9 minutes ago: I'm having an odd issue with Bridgy Publish to FB that I'm not sure is my fault or a bug in Bridgy Publish. It seems to only be grabbing the name of my recent blog post, and not the e-content.
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tantek snarfed - if it's a note, it's likely the content/title are the same
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tantek is there a reason not to always use the *-content?
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snarfed tantek: for articles, name will usually be more appropriate for char limited silos like twitter
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snarfed oh wait, sorry, you said FB, not twitter?
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snarfed ok. looking.
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kyle_wm/510838926592847872/139199211 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/database-antipattern (webmention)
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KevinMarks tantek - thinkup is open source, so someone could patch it to read indiefeeds too
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snarfed KevinMarks++
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Loqi KevinMarks has 55 karma
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snarfed (KevinMarks: happy birthday btw…? or does fb not have your real bday? :P)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/kyle_wm/510838926592847872/510915298745389056 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/database-antipattern (webmention)
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xtof aaronpk bonjour. Back on mediawiki. just upgraded a personal instance to v 1.2.3 - FYI some warnings met w/ IndieAuth-mediawiki extension -… http://xtof.me/w/2014-256#IndieAuth - Cheers.
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@timweston Testing out @withknown, self-hosted blogging platform that syndicates your content elsewhere. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/510917944604246016)
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KevinMarks I just introduced aaronpk to ginatrapani - she wants thinkup to add indieweb support, and it's in PHP, so aaron probably has the code needed already mostly written
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KevinMarks yay
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Loqi giggles
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bear now has code to gather domain list from IRCPeople and store it for processing
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@kevinmarks #xoxo @gruber: sites made by individuals writing under their own name had great source code that loaded fast #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/510935178470887424)
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pdurbin KevinMarks: sounds good. the thinkup thing
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techlifeweb what is the indieweb?
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Loqi The indieweb is about owning your domain and using it as your primary identity, to publish on your own site (optionally syndicate elsewhere), and ownyourdata http://indiewebcamp.com/the_indieweb
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techlifeweb tantek: Looks good. Did you mean to run "ownyourdata" together like that?
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@t #xoxofest: @gruber is giving an inspirational reminder of the early 2000s #independentweb. #indieweb (ttk.me t4Y64) (twitter.com/_/status/510936088685600768)
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tantek techlifeweb: yes - it's used that way as a hashtag
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techlifeweb tantek: got it.
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@_pius RT @t: #xoxofest: @gruber is giving an inspirational reminder of the early 2000s #independentweb. #indieweb (ttk.me t4Y64) (twitter.com/_/status/510936563812159488)
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tantek snarfed, yes, Bridgy Publish to FB in particular
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@t @tomcoates It looks like you're writing a blog post. Check out http://withknown.com (hosted or #indieweb install). (ttk.me t4Y65) (twitter.com/_/status/510939124589928449)
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@davidcmolina RT @t: #xoxofest: @gruber is giving an inspirational reminder of the early 2000s #independentweb. #indieweb (ttk.me t4Y64) (twitter.com/_/status/510940901485871104)