#indiewebcamp 2014-09-24

2014-09-24 UTC
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shaners
bret there was a time when some people were using the as- vendor prefix for Activity Streams post/object types.
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shaners
eg, .h-as-article on http://sbb.me/b4YB1
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shaners
maybe worth capturing that in the micropub post detection algo too
shaners, brianloveswords, tantek, joshwnj` and parzzix joined the channel
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parzzix
good evening everyone
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parzzix
So when I got http://indiewebify.me/ and test web sign in I get the following
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parzzix
When fetching http://timapple.me, we got this problem:
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parzzix
Client error response [status code] 404 [reason phrase] Vhost unknown [url] http://timapple.me/
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parzzix
Any ideas?
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rascul
can you sign in at indiewebcamp.com ?
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parzzix
will try
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parzzix
I get
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parzzix
Unknown error retrieving http://timapple.me: 404 => Net::HTTPNotFound for http://timapple.me/ -- unhandled respons
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rascul
probably need to talk to aaronpk about that
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rascul
he's the indieauther
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@401matthall
Has anyone else sorted out how to get likes and replies from Facebook to show-up on their Known site? #Known #idno #indieweb #lilhelpplease
(twitter.com/_/status/514583151205961728)
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bret
KevinMarks___: that was an excellent semweb artcle
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bret
Have there been any significant rebuttals to it?
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parzzix
ok rascul will check with him.
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kylewm
parzzix: it might just be DNS hasn't updated yet
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KevinMarks___
Not that I saw, but I may have missed something
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parzzix
OK....will try to be patient..but the page loads via domain name.
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parzzix
kylewm, maybe somthing to do with updated known...fixed plugins..maybe indieauth not working yet though
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kylewm
which excellent semweb article?
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@anomalily
@willowbl00 Three fold: transparency around what I’m doing, ability to invite/RSVP people to public events via webmentions, mtg scheduling
(twitter.com/_/status/514589191661817857)
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kylewm
thank you
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@willowbl00
@anomalily 1) meetme.so for what it does; 2) indiewebcamp for what's missing
(twitter.com/_/status/514590511450308609)
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@anomalily
@willowbl00 Yea I may just make an #indieweb mash-up using web mentions & @calagator code. Pretty event pages via my own site is essential
(twitter.com/_/status/514591075105636352)
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KartikPrabhu
yup nice article. points out the clearly what the problem is up front. Real world systems are not black and white enough to be amenable to strict logic
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Mark87
I believe I have ssl running on my website! ssllabs test running now
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Mark87
got a B!
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@parzzix
I think I am loving my @mailinabox . I pretty much got completely off google services in one foul swoop! #google #linux #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/514601742303240193)
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ben_thatmust_
gah after all that setup for a mixi.jp account I need a Japanese cell phone to sign up
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bear.im
edited /HTTPS (+87) "sha-2 certificate now for bear.im"
(view diff)
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bear.im
edited /HTTPS (+10) "fix link"
(view diff)
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GWG
Still trying to figure out a synonym for Itches. As in Scratch Your Own Itch
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aaronpk
GWG: what's wrong with "itches"?
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GWG
I was thinking of going with Dreams.
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aaronpk
dreams sounds like things that are far off to me
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GWG
tantek was encouraging me to add to my user page.
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GWG
aaronpk: I think many of them are
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aaronpk
for me, itches sound like things that I can't stand the fact they aren't done yet so much that I want to do them right now
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GWG
For me, I'm trying to build a good foundation.
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GWG
I don't think I can do the bigger ons.
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GWG
ones
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KartikPrabhu
GWG: not much point in thinking long and hard about what to call something before it exists. Make a list call it whatever, you can always change the name
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KartikPrabhu
name deciding is just another obstacle to making something
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GWG
I'm writing a note right now
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aaronpk
KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu has 61 karma
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GWG
aaronpk: I have an indieauth problem
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GWG
It has intermittently been telling me it has problems with accessing my site. Any troubleshooting techniques?
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aaronpk
are you using ssl?
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GWG
Yes
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KevinMarks
Scratching itches doesn't usually help. You either end up bleeding or infected
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GWG
KevinMarks: Shame, isn
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GWG
't it?
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GWG
I don't like to bleed.
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KevinMarks
A UK English word is niggles, but that is asking for misinterpretation
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KevinMarks
Bothersome things
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aaronpk
!tell shaners why does the ruby mf2 parser parse the result using "_" in key names instead of "-"? example: (Microformats2.parse 'https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/instagram/aaronpk/812343765104445747_1500881/1140655189').to_json
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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KevinMarks
Ello is opaque as anything and sloooow
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@anomalily
Started writing a blog post on #indieweb as a tool for diverse populations and at this point I feel I could write a dissertation.
(twitter.com/_/status/514644847093751809)
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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kou
Sorry! Lost connection to MySQL server during query in function on line 30.
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expandrew.com
edited /events/2014-09-24-homebrew-website-club (+16) "/* RSVP */ add Andrew Westling"
(view diff)
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KartikPrabhu
kou: what? what is the context ?
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@anomalily
The #indieweb is the new zines- thoughts on diversity on internet: http://anomalily.net/the-indie-web-is-the-new-zines/
(twitter.com/_/status/514654578411720704)
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kou
as if. so much more creativity design-wise w/a pencil+paper than fighting w/ CSS
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kou
really, "ownership of your own identity " is the reason? why would you use the ICANN/SAIC/Verisign/Godaddy DNS cartel ?
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kou
ie why not some anonymous / distributed-conensus thing like https://github.com/andres-erbsen/dename
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KartikPrabhu
kou: do you use "some anonymous / distributed-conensus thing" on your own website?
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tantek
wow that *is* nifty
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KartikPrabhu
yup insta-notifications
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tantek
well done @joeld!
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tantek
hey bear - how hard would it be to do Webmention to XMPP instead of email based on this code https://gist.github.com/otherjoel/9301d985622f0d3d1a09 ?
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tantek
KevinMarks: your silos background image takes so long to load on your tweets that I have to wait several seconds before the "Favorite" button will respond to clicks (damn JS wait time)
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tantek
KevinMarks: also, any idea what software @loic was running that "something went wrong and it wend[sic] down" ?
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@kevinmarks
@loic you should post on your own site and share to the others http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE
(twitter.com/_/status/514664582317899776)
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KevinMarks
WordPress on wpengine
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KevinMarks
Hm, maybe I should make it smaller
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kylewm
I don't think I ever noticed your background picture was silos
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kylewm
that's excellent
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@fdevillamil
RT @kevinmarks: @loic you should post on your own site and share to the others http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE
(twitter.com/_/status/514665636497485824)
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kou
" identity within an infinite space"
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kou
> implying an infinite space has bounds
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tantek
are we not existing within a (potentially) infinite space?
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tantek
KevinMarks: I thought wpengine was supposed to handle all the update stuffs for WordPress
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tantek
anomalily++
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Loqi
anomalily has 2 karma
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KartikPrabhu
kou: those two statements amount to bad logic (trust me I am a mathematical-physicist ;) )
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kou
KartikPrabhu: of all the cartels one supports in daily life, the 10euro a year to Gandi is peanuts, and who knows what tiny fractio of that makes i to some 'rentier class' DNS overlord like http://www.donuts.co/ , seeing as gandi tosses in free DNS, SMTP, 1-page HTTP, 1gb of storage..
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tantek
KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu has 62 karma
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tantek.com
edited /Falcon (+283) "/* process and show webmentions */ consider also webmention to email"
(view diff)
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KartikPrabhu
kou: yes very nice. I would like to overthrow the system too. But to do that I need to get my thoughts out there first
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KartikPrabhu
same reason POSSE is a thing
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KartikPrabhu
instead of just "post on your website"
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kou
all this mention/syndication stuff does make censorship a lot harder
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kou
tooo many copies to kill :)(
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tantek
kou++ good point
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Loqi
kou has 1 karma
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tantek.com
edited /Main_Page (-1) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ comment out Chicago, Minneapolis for this week"
(view diff)
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acegiak
pfefferle: the reason I'm not using achild theme for blackwoolholiday.com at the moment is that using the customcss plugin plus the page in widget widget is just way quicker to iterate
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pfefferle
acegiak that is true!
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acegiak
I might reqork it into a child theme later if I feel the desire
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acegiak
also: I should do a pull request on sempress some time that adds the header widget area I use
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petermolnar
good morning
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alanpearce_
Hi petermolnar
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waterpigs.co.uk
edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+117) "/* 2014 */ added “The Indie Web is the new Zines”"
(view diff)
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Haxxa
Can you post content to twitter and facebook when using wordpress?
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KevinMarks
What is ello
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barnabywalters
the /WordPress page has a bunch of useful tips for indiewebifying wordpress sites
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@ShaneHudson
”‹This article by @anomalily adds another perspective to the #indieweb, from an LGBT point of view. Worth a read! http://anomalily.net/the-indie-web-is-the-new-zines/
(twitter.com/_/status/514718452775669760)
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Haxxa
Loqi the problem with the indie web is that it still doesn't answer how it all interacts the reason facebook and silo based sites are so popular is due to the intergration and ease of use - the indie web really only fills a niche of techy's and for people who have specific rationale for setting up a site for the rest of people they prefer having a third party in control of there content
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Haxxa
*thier
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Haxxa
sorry getting pretty tired here grammar is going
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alanpearce_
Loqi is just relaying from twitter :D
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ShaneHudson
Yeah I think you meant to mention me instead of Loqi?
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Haxxa
didn't mean to relay anyone really just posing a point of view seeingwhat people in this channel think of it and why...
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ShaneHudson
You are right that indie web isn't ready for everyone yet. But (and there is a page on the wiki somewhere), we are just the first step. In the same way Harvard was the first step for Facebook. And we already have Known, which is a great starting place for non-tech people
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neuro`
ShaneHudson++
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Loqi
ShaneHudson has 9 karma
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ShaneHudson
Our job is to make the software and plugins (be it Wordpress, Craft or whatever) so that it is simple for everyone else further down the line
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Haxxa
How do you see it integrating though? Does not having your own data away from a central place limit intergration and the useful of this data - googles buiness model for example is solely based on making useful connections between data and a lot of that would not be possible if the data was not in their control
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Haxxa
Is the indie web a push away from industry cloud?
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ShaneHudson
Google are absolutely able to make connections between data they do not own, they started out as a search engine after all
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ShaneHudson
It is in a way a push away from industry clouds, although we all have differing reasons for why we do it.
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ShaneHudson
Often it is down to having seen so many companies pull sites that we use (see http://anomalily.net/the-indie-web-is-the-new-zines)
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Haxxa
Could you see facebook dying and taking data with it?
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Haxxa
again playing devils avocate here trying really to gather why indie web is important
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ShaneHudson
Facebook are massive. But so was GeoCities, MySpace, Bebo... I doubt it will happen anytime soon, but definitely possible.
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ShaneHudson
It is important because it is important in different ways for each person.
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alanpearce_
You can think of indieweb as having a backup of all your data. Only you know it already works, because it's on your own site.
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ShaneHudson
Some people might not care about sites closing down, but (as in Lillian's case) they may be censored on social networks etc
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ShaneHudson
And for others, it could just be a great way to get back to their own personal site. I know I had barely touched mine in years until joining indie web :)
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alanpearce_
Me neither. I owned my domain for several years before I did anything web-based with it.
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Haxxa
Do you host using VPS or shared hosting or just from home?
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ShaneHudson
VPS at the moment (I need to find a cheaper option though, one of my sites has grown larger than expected)
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Haxxa
I really like to host from home but I only have 2.5 mbs upload which might not be a good idea
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alanpearce_
I use a VPS now. If I had better internet at home, I would host there.
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Haxxa
this ^^^^^
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ShaneHudson
There is no reason you can't host on a VPS but have the canonical versions at home, just for your access
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alanpearce_
Haxxa: if your site is (made) cacheable, you could use something like cloudflare to speed things up
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ShaneHudson
Then you have a real-time backup against VPS going down
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alanpearce_
ShaneHudson: Which provider are you with?
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ShaneHudson
Krystal.co.uk
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Haxxa
It's more that I don't want to pay for a VPS and the fact I could transfer files much quicker :)
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ShaneHudson
But I already pay extra for 100GB storage and needing extra RAM, so trying to work out what to do
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alanpearce_
Haxxa: You might consider looking at /hosting , lowendbox is a particularly good cheap option.
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alanpearce_
I pay £12/year for each of a couple of VPSes
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ShaneHudson
I've never trusted VPSes that are that cheap lol
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alanpearce_
Some work really well.
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petermolnar
for VPS, digitalocean is cheap & nice
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alanpearce_
I've only had one bad one really, and I've gone through about five offers
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rascul
digitalocean is quite good i've found
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alanpearce_
Heroku or openshift could be free, depending on data storage and stuff.
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petermolnar
for a full blown server, check this, in case you're in the EU: https://robot.your-server.de/order/market
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rascul
http://soyoustart.com has lower cost dedicated servers too
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ShaneHudson
DigitalOcean looks far too expensive if I want a lot of storage
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Haxxa
I had a VPS provided to me for 3 years and I shared it with friends until my friend thought it was a good idea to use it as a seedbox and get my vps seized . grrrrr
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Loqi
gives ShaneHudson a lot of storage
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ShaneHudson
Thank you Loqi
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Loqi
who, me?
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alanpearce_
ShaneHudson: https://backupsy.com/ is good for storage :)
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Haxxa
Otherwise I use lowendbox a lot
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Haxxa
see whats around
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ShaneHudson
petermolnar: That is very tempting... but how reliable? I like being able to just phone my host, but if they are based in Germany it would probably be harder
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Haxxa
Anyone know is it common for registars to buy domains after you've used it - I don't want to pay renewal fees which are why to expensive
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Haxxa
*if
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petermolnar
I've been using it for 1.5 years
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petermolnar
not a single issue
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Haxxa
I want to buy using a different registar
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petermolnar
disk needed to be replaced, it took ~1h downtime
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petermolnar
nothing else
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rascul
Haxxa if you don't renew the domain they usually take over it when it expires
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ShaneHudson
Haxxa: It has certainly been known
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ShaneHudson
petermolnar: Hmm this is very tempting
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Haxxa
but they are charging crazy renewal fees!
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petermolnar
there's a single limit: atfer 10TB/month you'll be reduced to 10Mbs
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alanpearce_
Nice provider there rascul++
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rascul
Haxxa gandi and namecheap are both good registrars
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ShaneHudson
What is the whole reduction thing? Is it like an auction for servers?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "the whole reduction thing? Is it like an auction for servers" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=the+whole+reduction+thing%3F+Is+it+like+an+auction+for+servers
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ShaneHudson
petermolnar: That shouldn't be a problem
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petermolnar
it's getting lower and lower up until a certain price
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petermolnar
I got that machine for 29E / month :)
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Haxxa
rascul opinion what should I do - I am using crazy domains
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Haxxa
I dont want to pay renewal fees
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rascul
if you don't pay, you can't keep the domain
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rascul
typically it's charged for a year at a time
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rascul
you could see what gandi or namecheap charge to transfer though if you're unhappy with your current registrar
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@badgermind
RT @ShaneHudson: ”‹This article by @anomalily adds another perspective to the #indieweb, from an LGBT point of view. Worth a read! http://t.…
(twitter.com/_/status/514727542209937408)
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petermolnar
symfony YAML processor -- ; that Grav system is a picky bastard :|
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petermolnar
by the way, if someone is in the need of a virtual machine immediately, I can lend an lxc container for a while
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alanpearce_
So kind :)
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ShaneHudson
petermolnar: Do you have WHM on your server? I could probably get away without it but currently have everything set up through it.
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petermolnar
what is WHM?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "WHM" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=WHM
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ShaneHudson
It is the thing used for reseller cpanel accounts
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petermolnar
nooo, I use a handcrafted LXC setup with Debian
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ShaneHudson
My biggest problem is going to be transferring email accounts, hate doing that lol
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petermolnar
re-create everything on the new machine and set the new as smarthost for the old
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petermolnar
if you have spf, don't forget to modify it before :)
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ShaneHudson
Ok thanks, never heard of smarthost before :)
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Haxxa
Is it possible to have a dns that redirects to closest server
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Haxxa
have like 5 servers accross the world and oly direct to closest one
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alanpearce_
That's GeoDNS
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petermolnar
or anycast
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Haxxa
right thanks
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@parzzix
@benwerd when trying to check websign in on domain.. similiar when trying to log in at @indiewebcamp with domain also. Domain is timapple.me
(twitter.com/_/status/514735827495034880)
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@ttepasse
@bastianallgeier @jeena Allerdings ist er damit bei dem Microformat/Indieweb-Jungs gescheitert, die wollen h-cards parsen.
(twitter.com/_/status/514760609356087297)
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acegiak
GWG: you around?
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GWG
acegiak, you looking for me?
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acegiak
GWG: I was wondering if your webmention filter hook works for you?
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acegiak
cause I had to add two extra arguments to add_action to make it work
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acegiak
10 for the priority and 2 for the number of arguments
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pfefferle
acegiak you are right and I just mentioned that my doku is missing these cc GWG
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ShaneHudson
petermolnar: Ordered a server :D going halves with a friend, so was able to go for a good spec!
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ShaneHudson
And still only a few pounds more than my crappy VPS lol Just means I need to learn a lot of server admin stuff quickly
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petermolnar
ShaneHudson good luck :) they've been very reliable in my experience but keep an eye out for the disk health since those are all re-used servers
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ShaneHudson
Is there a good way to watch disk health otherthan just waiting for it to break?
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petermolnar
I can probably help you with the serveradmin things in case you're stuck
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ShaneHudson
Cheers :) I've got experience with VPS and data servers but nothing from scratch
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petermolnar
you could run in from a cron and grep for the health value; fire up an e-mail or similar if is dropping
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tommorris
That post from anomalily is awesome. :)
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ShaneHudson
petermolnar: That looks useful!
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ShaneHudson
tommorris: Yeah it really is, and it shows that indieweb is the perfect place for diversity even if we struggle with it at the moment
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petermolnar
tommorris I'm half done with that article, currently trying to debug our fax (sic!) system for some failures and the article is looooong
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tommorris
petermolnar: have you got a fax-to-personal-website gateway? because that'd be pretty sweet.
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petermolnar
nooo, this is my sysadmin day job
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petermolnar
fax-to-personal-website gateway? HELL NO :D
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tommorris
Hey, it'd be great for sketching. Draw something, fax it in.
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petermolnar
that's a fair point, still NO :D
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tommorris
https://www.hellofax.com/ + Dropbox API = way to have a number to fax into and get the bytes to you in a reasonable way
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tommorris
Alternatively, a service where you can call in and have your website faxed back. :)
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petermolnar
that's one strange hobby :)
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tommorris
I joke but fax integration is something I've looked into for client work. Because I work for people who work for sadists.
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petermolnar
I work for a company with 4k fax lines ;)
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tommorris
If you are doing document management, being able to push a button and have the document faxed to someone in rural India is useful.
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GWG
acegiak, it worked in testing
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GWG
But submit a pull request and I will accept
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ShaneHudson
Would it be worth splitting the entire server into two VPSes or lots of small VPSes?
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ShaneHudson
(we are splitting the payments between two of us)
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alanpearce_
Two definitely
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alanpearce_
More would be up to you
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alanpearce_
Lots of people like to split their dedicated servers up more, but it just depends on how much you want to deal with configuration management systems and the like
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ShaneHudson
Does having more make it harder?
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alanpearce_
Well, it's effectively the same as having more machines
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petermolnar
try docker or pure lxc for virtualization
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ShaneHudson
alanpearce_: So harder to customise but reduces the risks each site has to the rest?
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alanpearce_
Pretty much, yeah.
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ShaneHudson
petermolnar: I was looking at lxc, have heard of docker but never used
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alanpearce_
Well, not harder, really
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alanpearce_
Just more tedious.
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petermolnar
lxc is surprisingly easy to set up
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petermolnar
docker is a bit hipster
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alanpearce_
Multiple machines to log in to, etc.
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alanpearce_
Or use a configuration management system like SaltStack or ansible
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ShaneHudson
If we split into two, how hard would it be to make a third later?
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petermolnar
if you set LVM up, and do not allocate all space, it will be easy
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petermolnar
otherwise you might end up with not enough space
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alanpearce_
is kind of envious :)
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ShaneHudson
Ok, sounds good. Is it as easy to extend one? I presume so?
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petermolnar
I have script to copy a base wordpress template so spinning up a new container is 1 to 2 enter(s) fast :)
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petermolnar
I've updated that article with a better config that does not need fstab in the container anymore
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@GregF
Any #indieweb folks going to be at #wordcampSF? How about a meetup?
(twitter.com/_/status/514793781892116480)
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@curiousmitch
@alanlepo I like the whole POSSE concept http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE I self installed so still playing with some of the plugins
(twitter.com/_/status/514795025189052417)
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@alanlepo
My interest in @withknown is based on aggregating comments from multiple syndications into a single stream. #IndieAuth #Micropub
(twitter.com/_/status/514797097518772225)
paulcp joined the channel
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@curiousmitch
@alanlepo I think you need to set up your authorship info and some of the other items on this page http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started have not had time
(twitter.com/_/status/514795817254027265)
jet_, Svte, ShaneHudson and Mark87 joined the channel
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@curiousmitch
@IdoNotes I believe this is a pre-requisite to using some of the other indieweb protocols to aggregate comments, replies, in one place
(twitter.com/_/status/514803068362559488)
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@curiousmitch
@IdoNotes I think you can aggregate anywhere that supports the indieweb protocols i.e. wordpress via plugins or something like @withknown
(twitter.com/_/status/514803361246633984)
Pea1 and Sebastien-L joined the channel
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petermolnar
!tell tantek I was wondering had anyone used NewBase60 in, for example, nginx directly, to resolve the url it needs to forward to?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
#
@SocialSafe
If you missed it before, here's our step by step guide on how to download your Facebook Messages: http://www.slideshare.net/socialsafe/how-to-download-all-your-facebook-messages-to-your-own-machine-with-socialsafe #OwnYourData
(twitter.com/_/status/514805383228321792)
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kylewm
petermolnar: I started looking into that but decided it couldn't be done with a regex
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kylewm
you'd have to bring in Lua
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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petermolnar
oh, I meant an actual C compile-in extension
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@anomalily
Maybe I need to make this "zines are the #indieweb” thing a series. So many interesting questions being raised http://anomalily.net/the-indie-web-is-the-new-zines/
(twitter.com/_/status/514809806830309376)
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bear
tantek - yes, sending a webmention via xmpp should be possible. I will gather some code samples on how to send an XMPP message in JS land
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gregorlove.com
edited /webmention (+1) "possessive: receiver's"
(view diff)
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@matdryhurst
@TCF6edfsdf4c7e7 @MXEXSXH eggsactly. Personally more excited about @withknown #indieweb syndication model
(twitter.com/_/status/514823577632133120)
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kylewm.com
edited /pump.io (+421) "added interview and quote "I really want pump.io to become one of those essential pieces of infrastructure""
(view diff)
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kylewm.com
edited /Known (+178) "/* Articles */ added Wired italia"
(view diff)
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@tedder42
@stevelle I'm headed here, really. http://indiewebcamp.com/ that's why our euro pics aren't up.
(twitter.com/_/status/514828526638215168)
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@rektide
.@mjg59 @aral hard for me to be empathic /w @shanley 's tweeting against #indiewebcamp: "bunch of white dorks" => "unsafe"? barbs galore.
(twitter.com/_/status/514829341403144193)
danlyke joined the channel
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@kyle_wm
I love that @withknown uses Known to provide user support to people trying to set up Known. https://indiewebcamp.com/selfdogfood ftw
(twitter.com/_/status/514830210806476800)
reedstrm joined the channel
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@withknown
RT @kyle_wm: I love that @withknown uses Known to provide user support to people trying to set up Known. https://indiewebcamp.com/selfdogfood ftw
(twitter.com/_/status/514832225544581120)
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Loqi
[mention] http://btmb.me/s/1r linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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ben_thatmustbeme
article posting via micropub now
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ben_thatmustbeme
one more step toward removing the admin interface entirely
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KevinMarks___
I need to add micropub support to noterlive
jet_ joined the channel
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bear
hey lovely Indieweb folks - if you have an server you should update it to pick up the bash update - there is a security update for it and it's a big one
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neuro`
Good evening.
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neuro`
bear: URL of the CVE?
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neuro`
bear: 2012
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bear
oh poo - one sec
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neuro`
Having a look thank you
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kylewm
bear++ thanks for the heads up
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Loqi
bear has 32 karma
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bret
bear does ubuntu 12.04 get that?
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Mark87
bear++ I need to upgrade my Ubuntu to 14.04 too
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Loqi
bear has 33 karma
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bear
bret - I am researching that because I have some of those also
fmarier joined the channel
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bret
bear, saw bash in the sudo aptitude upgrade list... lazymin wants to imagine thats the correct patch XD
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bear
bret - it is, just confirmed that 12.04 was included in the upgrade for bash
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bret
seriously thinking of making the jump to irc cloud until I can get on DO or Linode or something
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GWG
bret: I use ZNC for my IRC
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bret
me too, but maintaining and paying for a full on VPS just for IRC isn't making much sense right now
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bret
i just don't have time to do all the things I want right now
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teknotus_
bret: This IRC vps is also a dns server!
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bear
bret - if you just need a shell account for znc let me know
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finalcut
am I missing something? I don't see any reference to a vulnerability with Bash in 2014 on this page: http://www.cvedetails.com/product/21050/GNU-Bash.html?vendor_id=72
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teknotus_
Mark87: It's almost time for 14.10
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bear
finalcut - that was a bad link on my part
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GWG
bret: I pay $12 a year for a low end VPS
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finalcut
oh, okay
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GWG
You don't need a good one for this
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finalcut
thanks bear.
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teknotus_
I've been working on DevOps stuff to setup my blog, and stuff. I think I can make a tool for other people.
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teknotus_
Takes a clean cloud instance, and sets things up.
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teknotus_
I'm curious what features people would want if made such a thing.
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teknotus_
GWG: $1/month gps?
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kylewm
teknotus_: you're talking about the setup process, not the software itself?
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kylewm
teknotus_: what are you using to run your blog?
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GWG
teknotus_: Yes. Look at lowendbox.com
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GWG
teknotus_: I am currently playing with Crissic Solutios
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teknotus_
kylewm: So I'm writing software to do the setup. At the moment I'm just installing jekyll, but I can certainly make the setup software install other things.
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kylewm
teknotus_: people here are big proponents of building what you need for yourself rather than hypothetical users. i find it to be a really useful way of figuring out what features are important or not
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kylewm
what is selfdogfood?
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Loqi
selfdogfood is a specific form of dogfooding, that is, using your own creations on your own personal site that you depend on, day to day http://indiewebcamp.com/selfdogfood
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reedstrm
my favorite hypothetical other user, though, is myself, in 6 weeks (or even 6 days) - making stuff easy 'for someone else' often pays back, if it's more than a one-off, throw away script.
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Mark87
reedstrm good point
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reedstrm
ah, no karma? Hehe. I've been trying to turn more of my "who wrote this $^&$%^& piece of code (git blame) oh, I did" into "hey, that was easy to refactor - and the tests helped, too, who wrote those? Oh _I _ did?!"
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teknotus_
Well it started out along the lines of there being domains I own that I don't even have a landing page on at the moment, and I wanted a way to set things up faster so that I'm doing something interesting with them quickly.
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reedstrm
right - actually pretty much all of devops falls into the category of "making things easier for my future self who's forgotten the arcane config and interdependencies of these 4 packages"
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teknotus_
I haven't forgotten. It's just tedius.
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reedstrm
that too.
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teknotus_
I was a full time sysadmin for a long time.
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reedstrm
Ah, then there are many things you wish you could forget, I bet :-)
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teknotus_
It's good to not forget the disasters.
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reedstrm
So as to be able to avoid repeating them, true
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@tedder42
@stevelle this is long, but put on the side, explains indieweb. https://www.youtube.com/
(twitter.com/_/status/514854516563259393)
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petermolnar
::sigh:: I was soo happy with the stage of getting things into Grav up until the point I reached the how to export comments... man, handling oldschool comments is a nightmare :/
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petermolnar
how would one set up a YAML + Markdown format comment layout which has to be able to store regular ( nested... ) comments, webmentions and track/pingbacks as well?
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petermolnar
( although I might just drop all the nested shit away from years ago )
brianloveswords, Svte, verdi and danlyke joined the channel
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sparverius
ugh i just got bit by google
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sparverius
ive used G+ photo upload for a while and i cant find an easy way to download all of my photos at full res
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sparverius
mannnn, i was reasonably comfortable with tackling the whole photo thing until later because google has a generally good track record
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@pranesh_prakash
Some of the most exciting work around #Web standards has been the #indieweb stuff. Here are @t's notes on what's new: http://tantek.com/2014/179/b1/indiewebcamp-thoughts-before-gathering
(twitter.com/_/status/514865603752890368)
bret___ joined the channel
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sparverius
wait, it's all on takeout
paulcp, fmarier and scor joined the channel
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reedstrm
sparverius - yup :-)
TheShrew, tantek and krendil joined the channel
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sparverius
reedstrm: i had a real moment of "FUUUUUUUCK." when i realized i had hundreds of photos with the possibility of downloading them one by one
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reedstrm
has been planning the same thing - thought for a sec. they'd taken it away ...
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tantek
sparverius: please add anything you learn about how hard/easy or caveats the photo export from G+ process has to http://indiewebcamp.com/G+#Exporting_your_data - thanks!
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Loqi
tantek: petermolnar left you a message 4 hours, 43 minutes ago: I was wondering had anyone used NewBase60 in, for example, nginx directly, to resolve the url it needs to forward to?
#
tantek
petermolnar: interesting thought. what languages runs in "nginx directly" ?
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tantek
s/runs/run
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: petermolnar: interesting thought. what languages run in "nginx directly" ?
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tantek
bear, I don't mean *send* webmentions via XMPP per se, rather, send notifications of webmentions *received* (similar to how that email notification of webmentions works)
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sparverius
tantek: sure
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bear
yea, that is almost the same code to be honest
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bear
right now I am dealing with CVE-2014-6271 - but I want to gather up some js code samples for XMPP anyways for folks to know about
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tantek
bear, quite different from a queing perspective AFAIK
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bear
tantek - you can get perl and lua to run inside nginx IIRC
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petermolnar
tantek: you can compile in C code, or use Lua / Perl with plugin
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tantek
bear in other words, see https://gist.github.com/otherjoel/9301d985622f0d3d1a09 and replace "email" with "XMPP"
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4c4d.com
edited /Google+ (+161) "/* Exporting your data */ anecdotal"
(view diff)
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bear
tantek - yes, I have a small python program that I do exactly that for a lot of things
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tantek
petermolnar: there's a Perl implementation of NewBase60 here: http://tantek.com/w/NewBase60#Perl
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tantek
what is Lua?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Lua" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Lua
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bear
xmpp_send person@example.com "this is an alert"
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tantek
bear, was hoping you might know of a PHP way - so one could fork https://gist.github.com/otherjoel/9301d985622f0d3d1a09 and change it to use XMPP instead of email
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ben_thatmustbeme
so i went through a bunch of hassle to get an invite from a friend to Mixi.jp in hopes of adding a piece to brid.gy for it.... and come to find out after you get an invite you actually need to use a japanese cell phone to register
#
bear
I will get php and js examples for you
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tantek
bear, I wonder if this is worth a section on /webmention - libraries for sending notifications of when you receive webmentions
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tantek
what is Mixi.jp?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Mixi.jp" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Mixi.jp
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bear
I am making a todo for me tonight to update /webmention with various ways for sending alerts/notifications
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: perhaps start that page ^^^ and add a "Criticism" section noting "need to use a japanese cell phone to register"
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tantek
bear - sounds great!
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finalcut
sparverius: you might be able to use this to download all your photos from Google - https://code.google.com/p/googlecl/
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finalcut
i know it worked with google photos as picasa but I don't know if it will work in the G+ world
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bear.im
edited /webmention (+258) "stub out notification section"
(view diff)
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@anomalily
@benwerd At the last PDX #indiewebcamp we were talking about making a “Zinester/Comic artist guide to getting started the DIY Indie Web”
(twitter.com/_/status/514880476285116416)
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sparverius
finalcut: thanks, but takeout did the job
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sparverius
this is why i continue to pour data into google and slowly switch things over one-by-one rather than triaging hard
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tantek.com
edited /webmention (+9) "/* Notifications */ to email in particular"
(view diff)
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finalcut
okay cool I forgot takeout existed
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finalcut
and didn't notice reedstrm's link embeded in between your comments
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@danlyke
RT @anomalily: The #indieweb is the new zines- thoughts on diversity on internet: http://anomalily.net/the-indie-web-is-the-new-zines/
(twitter.com/_/status/514882248013651968)
#
ben.thatmustbe.me
created /Mixi (+443) "Create Mixi.jp page"
(view diff)
fmarier joined the channel
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ben.thatmustbe.me
created /Mixi.jp (+18) "redirect to mixi"
(view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
what is Mixi.jp
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ben_thatmustbeme
what is Mixi
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /Mixi (+11) "/* Mixi */ definition"
(view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
what is Mixi
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Loqi
Mixi.jp is a popular content hosting silo and activity aggregator which is the most popular social network in Japan http://indiewebcamp.com/Mixi
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ben_thatmustbeme
what is Mixi.jp
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Loqi
Mixi.jp is a popular content hosting silo and activity aggregator which is the most popular social network in Japan http://indiewebcamp.com/Mixi.jp
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tantek
in that case - I'd expect FB is in the process of acquiring it
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ben_thatmustbeme
I'll bet they've tried
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ben_thatmustbeme
FB is catching up in JP, but Mixi still has more people on it
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ben_thatmustbeme
actively on it, that is
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@myfreeweb
RT @anomalily: The #indieweb is the new zines- thoughts on diversity on internet: http://anomalily.net/the-indie-web-is-the-new-zines/
(twitter.com/_/status/514883808907526147)
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tantek
when did Mixi launch?
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ben_thatmustbeme
2004 according to wikipedia
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Loqi
!calc 2004 according to wikipedia
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reedstrm
Hmm, isn't that process just Zuck deciding and having FB Corp. writing the check? and telling his board "BTW we just bought those guys"
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kylewm
reedstrm: not always ... e.g., Twitter, Snapchat
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reedstrm
yeah sometimes they try ...
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@myfreeweb
@anomalily looks like your website doesn't use any #indieweb technology. and does use official [tracking] facebook and g+ like buttons :(
(twitter.com/_/status/514885113034067969)
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aaronpk
ironically @myfreeweb doesn't have a website listed on their twitter account
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kylewm
laaaame
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tantek
@myfreeweb looks like your website doesn't exist.
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aaronpk
tantek: can i steal that as a tweet reply?
#
tantek
or the more charitable
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tantek
@myfreeweb looks like your website is not linked from your Twitter profile.
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tantek
aaronpk - sure - feel free to repurpose/reuse any of those per CC0 - no need to attribute. Seemed like "obvious" replies :)
#
tantek
better
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@mathewi
RT @anomalily: The #indieweb is the new zines- thoughts on diversity on internet: http://anomalily.net/the-indie-web-is-the-new-zines/
(twitter.com/_/status/514886099374981120)
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tantek
@myfreeweb looks like you might want a website? come to tonight's Homebrew Website Club meetup and let's get you setup with one!
tilgovi joined the channel
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kylewm
nice, that's a big retweet from @matthewi
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tantek
yup - as was @dangillmor before that
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aaronpk
anomalily++
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Loqi
anomalily has 3 karma
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@myfreeweb
@SaraJChipps nah, #indieweb is the new cool thing, and it's basically blogs
(twitter.com/_/status/514887206142767105)
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tantek
anomalily++ yeah!
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Loqi
anomalily has 4 karma
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tantek
Do I need to expand the home page Beyond Blogging and Decentralization section to its own page?
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kylewm
lol at "Are blogs for olds"
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reedstrm
yah, I'm clearly into the olds camp.
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petermolnar
we all are, we remember the internet before Facebook.. some even before Google...
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@_jden
RT @anomalily: The #indieweb is the new zines- thoughts on diversity on internet: http://anomalily.net/the-indie-web-is-the-new-zines/
(twitter.com/_/status/514889712385789952)
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anomalily
Haha. I guess we are officially old if we remember searching the internet before google
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Loqi
anomalily: tantek left you a message 1 day, 2 hours ago: Known is the best answer right now to https://twitter.com/anomalily/status/514496421262028801 - it can publish indie events, and if you manually POSSE your indie event to FB, you can get RSVPs sent back to your site from FB via Bridgy.
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reedstrm
Hah - I remember before wikipedia ... Heck, I remember when this whole browser thing with pictures seemed ... odd.
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reedstrm
altavista FTW!
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tantek
I thought IRC was for olds ;)
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reedstrm
nah, it's ironic hip again. Inn't it?
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danlyke
I still remember discovering webcrawler... fondly.
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reedstrm
the truly old bits are the last vestiges of usernet ... still out there ...
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tantek
reedstrm - I like think it's more "minimalist" hip rather than ironic ;)
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reedstrm
tantek+
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reedstrm
tantek++
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Loqi
tantek has 84 karma
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@kevinmarks
@katelosse that's part of the point of #indieweb - no central point of failure
(twitter.com/_/status/514892381854785536)
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bret___
Twitter is just irc with different data modeling
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aaronpk
what is this ello thing I keep seeing talked about
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "this ello thing I keep seeing talked about" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=this+ello+thing+I+keep+seeing+talked+about
Svte joined the channel
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tantek.com
created /runkeeper (+23) "r"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
created /RunKeeper (+981) "stub with dfn, see also, criticism, quote aaronpk post about lack of https"
(view diff)
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tantek
what is ello?
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KevinMarks
Ello is a blogging silo. It has a follow model, Markdown posts and a very bootstrap look
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@katelosse
@mmmelk it's like, a thing of the week in SF, not sure if it will be more than that...
(twitter.com/_/status/514891937158275072)
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kylewm
(re: Ello)
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KevinMarks
Don't try using it on mobile, very desktop centric
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danlyke
I got an invite several weeks ago as a part of an IRC channel I hang out in. None of us (with our own weblogs, that IRC channel, and Twitter accounts) could figure out what it was good for.
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KevinMarks
No rel me, no api, no export,
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danlyke
Gave away a ton of invites today on a Facebook thread because friends of a friend expressed more interest than she had invites. So they'll have one tremendously screwed up social graph for me.
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tantek.com
edited /Ello (+690) "dfn, add Criticism section with summary of KevinMarks's critiques"
(view diff)
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KevinMarks
Certainly confirmation that integrated reading drives usage
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aaronpk
i thought ello had been around for a while
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aaronparecki.com
edited /RunKeeper (+36) "also supports biking and other exercise"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
there, a little more prodding
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anomalily
The Ello thing is being rapidly adopted by queers
pauloppenheim and danlyke joined the channel
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anomalily
And we all know that once the gays leave the neighborhood/facebook, it's gone
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pauloppenheim
what did i just walk into
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anomalily
Pretty much my entire queer facebook friends list has left for ello/is threatening to
#
aaronpk
oh is that why it's suddenly taking off right now?
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tommorris
anomalily: this queen ain't :)
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anomalily
Yea, that's why it's taking off. Because of the Real Name policy & drag queens
#
tommorris
pauloppenheim: just a little diversity, darling ;)
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anomalily
@tommorris ;)
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anomalily
Their "beta" launch for Ello was just perfectly timed with the storm that's happening with Facebook Real Name Policy
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pauloppenheim
ok, for some reason I thought I walked into the indieweb haters conversation from yesterday, got the fear
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tantek
Facebook will just buy them too
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tantek
pauloppenheim: which - the database-apologists? ;)
#
pauloppenheim
no, i read about twitter wars with some working group
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pauloppenheim
when i was reading backscroll
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tommorris
anomalily: Messing with drag queens never ends well, as NYC cops of 1969 can attest.
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reedstrm
Let's not throw any stones around. They might hit walls.
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anomalily
tommorris ++
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reedstrm
tantak: what did I miss, database-apologists? My peeps?
#
pauloppenheim
this ello sounds pretty cool, but feels like tumblr
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aaronpk
not sure why it sounds cool
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aaronpk
seems like just another silo
#
aaronpk
seems to be demonstrating pretty effectively that if facebook pisses people off they will jump ship to somethign else
#
tantek
pauloppenheim: twitter wars with some working group? I know of twitter wars, and I know of a working group (W3C Social Working Group) with contention in it, but not any combination thereof.
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pauloppenheim
the ideology has become mainstream
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pauloppenheim
tantek: just yesterday's logs, maybe i was reading it wrong
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KevinMarks_
ello has a friendster feel to me at the moment
#
tantek
KevinMarks: is it really slow and rewritten in Java?
#
KevinMarks_
not quite but it is about to hit a scaling cliff
#
pauloppenheim
it seems snappy for viewing still
#
pauloppenheim
so good on them, handling a mass exodus like that
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KevinMarks_
not snappy on mobile at all
paulcp joined the channel
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tantek
out of the fire and into the slowly boiling pot? (from one silo to another?)
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aaronpk
unfortunately there aren't a lot of reasonable alternatives at the moment. tho Known is getting close!
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KevinMarks_
KNown doesn't have a reader+follower model yet
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aaronpk
ah yeah that's kinda critical
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tantek
I wonder if it would be possible to create an indieweb alternative to Facebook, that *only* supported Facebook login, then did a full export/import, and when you finished gave you an identity that you owned independent of Facebook (e.g. an IndieAuth domain independent of FB)
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tantek
so no email either
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tantek
just a new identity constructor that took a Facebook identity as a parameter essentially
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tantek
and by the time you were done, it helps you delete/shutdown the FB identity
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KevinMarks_
I think part of the interest in ello is the novelty of reconstructing a follow graph, as people haven't done that in a few years
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tantek
I think the limited "invites" system is also part of that game
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KevinMarks_
right, the gmail playbook
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reedstrm
tantek probably want to allow other signins and ports as well - don't want to paint the target too big for FB ...
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bret___
sweet t, just wanted to confirm the format we wanted to try and follow these evening
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KevinMarks_
means that people need to talk about it on other media
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tantek
bret - looks like it might be pretty small here in SF
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tantek
also I'm planning on ending it promptly at 19:30 tonight - got another thing to go to
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bret___
portland likely as well
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tantek
ScienceHackDay SF meet & greet
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tantek
which BTW - I believe sign-ups are open for
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bret___
science++
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Loqi
science has 3 karma
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reedstrm
science++
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Loqi
science has 4 karma
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tantek
2014-10-04..05 @ GitHubHQ
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tantek
Hmm I suppose that's off topic?
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bret___
dietrich: would it be worth showing up around 6 to help out with AV setup?
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bret___
that is assuming tantek, are you interested in doing AV between portland and SF?
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tantek
is PDX doing Writing Hour?
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tantek
bret - yeah!
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Loqi
Homebrew Website Club PDX on Wednesday, Sep 24, 6:30pm at Mozilla
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dietrich
bret___: AV should be fine, but sure if you want. the only issue we had last time was we had only one camera rolling.
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dietrich
i'm going to hook up w/ our office coordinator later to figure that out
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tantek
dietrich - cool let's just use the Vidyo setup
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bret
sounds good to me
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anomalily
I think the issue with the idea of an indieweb reader+follow model that exported data from facebook & then shut your FB identity is that they've shut down services before that delete your profile for TOS violations
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tantek
got it. then the key is to make it all undoable.
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tantek
and perhaps simple setup POSSE to that FB by default
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tantek
KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu has 63 karma
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KartikPrabhu
i just copied your comment form IRC ;)
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tantek
oh "just" - and you have that awesome blog post of yours in your pocket (archives) to refer to ;)
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tantek.com
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