#indiewebcamp 2014-09-25

2014-09-25 UTC
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kartik_prabhu/514915200437207040/14447132 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/#Beyond_Blogging_and_Decentralization (webmention)
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KartikPrabhu tommorris: what was the link to your live mf2py tester?
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KartikPrabhu thinking of adding it to http://microformats.org/wiki/mf2py
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KartikPrabhu err. wrong channel but oh well
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tantek just realized I can add more to "different"
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tantek that may help with recent Twitter storms
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KartikPrabhu what is different?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "different" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=different
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KartikPrabhu hmm
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tantek gah
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tantek I'm editing !
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KartikPrabhu ok :P
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KartikPrabhu as there is no HWC-Chicago I am thinking of writing a h-feed to Atom converter
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tantek.com edited /community (+14) "see also commons" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /community-brainstorming (+50) "linky linky" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /Community (+23) "r" (view diff)
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tommorris KartikPrabhu: https://mf2py.herokuapp.com/
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KartikPrabhu thanks tommorris
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tantek.com edited /different (+541) "dfn, subheads, distinguish from company" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /ind.ie (+16) "see also indie, distinct" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /distinct (+23) "r" (view diff)
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tantek KartikPrabhu, tommorris for your review: http://indiewebcamp.com/different
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KartikPrabhu tommorris: gives internal server error on my website https://kartikprabhu.com
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tantek.com edited /different (-4) "/* Indie but not a company */ indie tech in quotes" (view diff)
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tommorris KartikPrabhu: will have a look at soon. can you file a bug on github to remind me? :)
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KartikPrabhu on it
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bret___ tantek: any objections to chaining re-use to share?
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tantek "waiting for platform.linkedin.com" - due to a <script src="http://platform.linkedin.com/in.js"> sigh
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tantek bret - huh?
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tantek brb - need to get coffee before HWC
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bret___ on http://indiewebcamp.com/different change to : ""indie technology" and does share some indieweb principles"
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tantek ah - that - ok - sure. I put "re-use" to strongly indicate the temporal order, and since Aral started ind(.)ie *after* helping co-organize IndieWebCampUK 2013
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tantek though that might be worth just documenting on /ind.ie
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bret___ i think thats better
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tantek as well as citing his blog post
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tantek on different from
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bret___ ah ok
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KartikPrabhu tommorris: https://github.com/tommorris/mf2py/issues/18 might be a https/SNI issue
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tommorris KartikPrabhu: thanks. will look into soon
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KartikPrabhu gives up on h-feed -> Atom too much work and working around Atom spec
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@kevinmarks @dominiccampbell @tomskitomski @pmackay we have a goodly collection of boring small protocols over at http://indiewebcamp.com (twitter.com/_/status/514932816992161792)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/514932816992161792/7526892 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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verdi tantek_: what room are you all in?
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mko Hi all. I'm HWCing from home if anyone is IRC-transcribing.
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KartikPrabhu me too
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bear tommorris, KartikPrabhu -- I just commented on that issue - IIRC python-requests latest version solves that issue
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kylewm verdi: tantek went to get coffee, he might not be back yet?
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KartikPrabhu bear: thanks!
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bear and with older versions you can "fix" it by installing pyOpenSSL, ndg-httpsclient and pyasn1
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bear updates issue with that info
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verdi kylewm: thanks - found him - we're in the common room on the first floor
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tantek verdi - looks like your icon in the logs broke - due to changing your Twitter avatar (they deleted the old one) there's a way to dynamically link to your latest Twitter avatar: http://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#Profile_Image_URLs
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tantek e.g. https://twitter.com/michaelverdi/profile_image (try clicking that)
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verdi tantek: http://x627.com/blog/starting-over/
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michaelverdi.com edited /Template:verdi (-31) (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/514932816992161792/11628 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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bret___ Hey dietrich in here
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dietrich portland is on vidyo! tantek___ let me know when you want to do AV check
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bret___ nice turnout in pdx this week! :)
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bret___ just to get names/urls out there:
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bret___ Bret: http://bret.io
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bret___ dietrich: http://metafluff.com
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expandrew andrew: http://expandrew.com
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bret___ Jennifer Rondeau: http://yourmom.io
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@t Great post by @anomalily on #indieweb #pseudonymity "The Indie Web is the new Zines" http://anomalily.net/the-indie-web-is-the-new-zines (ttk.me t4YH1) (twitter.com/_/status/514950319152046080)
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tantek greetings from SF
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tantek there's only 3 of us here
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tantek this week is a quiet one for us
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tantek we've been busy writing away :)
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tantek or rather, writing houring away ;)
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dietrich bah, i can't remember how to refer to myself in the wiki
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benatkin tantek: I jst found out about it
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benatkin tantek: at Coffee Haus in Mission now
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tantek dietrich, try {{dietrich}} :)
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dietrich tantek: woo thanks :D
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jjuran Hi, I'm Josh <http://www.jjuran.org/>
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dietrich hm, nope
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bret___ jjuran: is in pdx with us
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dietrich just renders Template:myname
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jjuran I drove from Seattle
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tantek dietrich click on that and then click on http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=Template:t&action=edit and copy and paste and replace with your deets :)
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@kevinmarks RT @t: Great post by @anomalily on #indieweb #pseudonymity "The Indie Web is the new Zines" http://anomalily.net/the-indie-web-is-the-new-zines (ttk.me t4YH1) (twitter.com/_/status/514951546837037056)
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dietrich tantek: grazie
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metafluff.com edited /events/2014-09-24-homebrew-website-club (+15) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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bret___ tantek: eta on video link?
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metafluff.com created /Template:dietrich (+148) "Created page with "<span class="h-card" style="white-space:nowrap">{{sparkline|https://twitter.com/dietrich/profile_image}}[[User:metafluff.com|Dietrich Ayala" target="_blank">User:metafluff.com|Dietrich" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/dietrich/profile_image}}[[User:metafluff.com|Dietrich Ayala]]</span>"" (view diff)
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dietrich tantek: can you hear us?
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bret___ we can hear you!
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equivalentideas listening in from Sydney :)
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tantek excellent!
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bret___ Paul Munday is also here: http://paulmunday.net/
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tantek what is gitpub?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "gitpub" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=gitpub
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dietrich one click deploy for github - "fork and go"
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dietrich bret___ speaking
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tantek benatkin - sorry to miss you!
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dietrich heroku deploy buttons
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tantek we do this every other Wednesday 18:30-19:30
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@kid_OYO RT @t: Great post by @anomalily on #indieweb #pseudonymity "The Indie Web is the new Zines" http://anomalily.net/the-indie-web-is-the-new-zines (ttk.me t4YH1) (twitter.com/_/status/514953565954400256)
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dietrich instead of community hub, applications can be deployed directly
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dietrich jennifer speaking
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bret___ Jennifer is here for the scone time and has wordpress up and running
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bret___ :D
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bret___ If you do wordpress stuff and want to help people get started, she's looking for pointers
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bret___ paul!
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bret___ Andrew: a student at epicodus
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bret___ still figuring out what to do
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bret___ Josh: moved to seattle recently!
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bret___ drove to pdx from seattel for this!
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@kid_OYO agreed @t @anomalily "The end goal of both zine and #indieweb technologies is ownership of your own identity without a filter." RT @OYOid (twitter.com/_/status/514954062736150528)
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tantek congrats on the new job Josh!
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bret___ starting to work at ripple, an open protocol for financial transactions
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dietrich https://ripple.com/#
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jjuran Fornaxis: A portable, distributed programming system <http://www.fornaxis.org/>
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bret___ Tantek, tantek.com
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bret___ planning on doing an nyc HWC!
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bret___ Tell brianlovewords
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jjuran Freemount: A latency-optimized network filesystem protocol <http://www.freemount.org/>
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bret___ tantek: cochairing the w3c social wg
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bret___ We broadcast on the indieweb room in vidyo
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tantek FYI: http://w3.org/wiki/socialwg
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tantek Michael Verdi here in SF
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tantek new domain! x627.com
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tantek Dan Lyke - flutterby.com and flutterby.net
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tantek built a system that goes through /irc-people, extracts URLs, looks for feeds, and tracks inbound links from those to flutterby.net!
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tantek also noted had an immediate negative reaction to webmention upon first reading
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tantek but now thinking about ways to distribute webs of trusted URLs and trusted comments
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tantek if anybody has ideas on that..
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tantek is also spidering these things once a day, thinking of dumping them into a database and setting up a full text search for it all
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jjuran Freemount now has resumable downloads
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bret___ talking about a recap of IWC UK 14
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equivalentideas I've been involved in some discussions about federated archives where web mentions came up http://rkroundtable.org/2014/09/24/what-do-records-do-in-peoples-lives-that-nothing-else-does/ I talked about indiewebcamp as an example of a community self-dog-fooding there way through :)
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bret___ full round trip web actions
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bret___ ... go to someones blog, they have a reply button, and the browser takes you to your micro pub client
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bret___ ... uses webcomponants and frames..
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tantek check out /indie-config for some more details
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bret___ http://indiewebcamp.com/indie-config
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/UK/#Blog_Posts
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@firasd RT @t: Great post by @anomalily on #indieweb #pseudonymity "The Indie Web is the new Zines" http://anomalily.net/the-indie-web-is-the-new-zines (ttk.me t4YH1) (twitter.com/_/status/514956953760436226)
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tantek is ello the new app.net?
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tantek what is ello?
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Loqi Ello is microblogging silo similar to Twitter or Tumblr for posting short status update notes and pictures http://indiewebcamp.com/Ello
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kylewm doesn't seem nearly as promising as app.net :(
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kylewm bret___: make sure tallpaul sees that zine article
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bret___ kylewm: will do
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tantek check out http://dbaron.org/ for a great long-lived example of static HTML file based blog
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bret___ can you link those long lived blogs?
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expandrew "my other CMS is Apache" - tantek
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tantek here's how you can start a new HTML5 static file
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tantek <!doctype html><html><head><meta charset=utf-8><title>hello world</title></head><body><p>This is a sentence.</p></body></html>
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expandrew :D
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bret___ Continuos integration + interpretation
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bret___ lol
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tantek "I'm sorry Dave, I can't accept that pull request."
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tantek Sabrina Bruning joined us - http://www.sabrinabruning.com/
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bret___ woot! http://bret.io/2014/09/25/hwc/
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Loqi :D
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ben_thatmust hey all
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@dietrich Homebrew Website Club at Mozilla Portland+SF tonight. #indieweb. Portrait by @bretolius. http://bret.io/2014/09/25/hwc/ https://twitter.com/dietrich/status/514965231550734336/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/514965231550734336)
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@ckzon RT @dietrich: Homebrew Website Club at Mozilla Portland+SF tonight. #indieweb. Portrait by @bretolius. http://bret.io/2014/09/25/hwc/ http://t.co/X… (twitter.com/_/status/514965332289544192)
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@bretolius RT @dietrich: Homebrew Website Club at Mozilla Portland+SF tonight. #indieweb. Portrait by @bretolius. http://bret.io/2014/09/25/hwc/ http://t.co/X… (twitter.com/_/status/514966791097823233)
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thelocalyarn.com created /User:Thelocalyarn.com (+62) "initial content" (view diff)
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@gasull RT @t: Great post by @anomalily on #indieweb #pseudonymity "The Indie Web is the new Zines" http://anomalily.net/the-indie-web-is-the-new-zines (ttk.me t4YH1) (twitter.com/_/status/514977023090233344)
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thelocalyarn.com edited /webmention (+800) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Add Joel D./thelocalyarn.com example" (view diff)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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@eraycakir RT @t: Great post by @anomalily on #indieweb #pseudonymity "The Indie Web is the new Zines" http://anomalily.net/the-indie-web-is-the-new-zines (ttk.me t4YH1) (twitter.com/_/status/514984111245889536)
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@SugithVarughese Agent laughed out loud at my web series pilot, but doesn't know how to sell it because it's the wild west.Self-produce?#Webseries #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/514992086035079169)
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tantek good evening #indiewebcamp!
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jenmontes.com created /diversity (+4813) "Wrote this to counter-balance the energy that has been spent differentiating "indie web" and "ind.ie"" (view diff)
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jenmontes.com edited /diversity (+6) "/* Within Indie Web Camp */ Fixing internal links" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu evening tantek
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KartikPrabhu looks like we have a /diversity page now
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KartikPrabhu how do I give internet points to Jenmontes?
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kylewm cuibonobo++
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Loqi cuibonobo has 6 karma
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kylewm (that's how KartikPrabhu)
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KartikPrabhu aah didn't know her nick off the top of my head
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KartikPrabhu cuibonobo++ for diversity page
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Loqi cuibonobo has 7 karma
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KartikPrabhu general question: indiewebcamp has a lot of female participation but hardly any of them are active on the IRC channel. What is the reason for this? more importantly how to rectify it?
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@joshuajuran Tonight's Homebrew Website Club meetup at Mozilla Portland and @MozSF: #indieweb https://twitter.com/joshuajuran/status/515010665568673792/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/515010665568673792)
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tantek cuibonobo++ thank you for drafting /diversity - great start, analysis, and suggestions
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Loqi cuibonobo has 8 karma
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I've had some women friends inform me that they have had bad experiences in the past on IRC (not on #indiewebcamp in particular, but rather seemingly on other IRC channels in general)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: it seems women have been instinctively turned off to internet group communication which is very bad
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I don't know enough to confirm or reject that broader generalization.
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KartikPrabhu of course anecdotal
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tantek counter evidence is of course Twitter, which is internet group communication of another sort, with fairly diverse participation
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KartikPrabhu but it is a problem since most interaction takes place here on IRC and it gives the impression that indiewebcamp is run by "white males"
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tantek KartikPrabhu: one of the reasons I suggested the updates to our IRC logs to include faces/logos is to make it more transparent in that regard, and dispell at least implied impressions of "run by white males" and instead provide more data for more informed opinions.
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KartikPrabhu aah good.
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tantek btw - my experience is that email lists for example are no better, often worse, both in terms of participation, and tone/length of dialog.
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KartikPrabhu of course not. email lists tend to be more confrontational and downright idiotic at times
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KartikPrabhu IRC being "live" helps a lot in that regard
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tantek right. and all of that IMO tend to make email lists even more unfriendly to minority and marginalized groups.
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KartikPrabhu nods
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KartikPrabhu and from personal experience, having your computer connected all the time to the internet is not something that happens in the developing world at all
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KartikPrabhu so IRC has that bias too
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tantek it does - hence having good logs (better presentation than clients even) is essential
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KartikPrabhu tantek: true. but how many new arrivals look at the logs for such information. How does someone new decide if indieweb is diverse? not by looking at the logs
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KartikPrabhu some how the "first impression" needs to be diversified
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jjuran tantek: There are IRC channels I'll never go back to.
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KartikPrabhu jjuran: of course. IRCs are not immune to being abusive. It depends on the people involved
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tantek having blog posts like anomalily's http://anomalily.net/the-indie-web-is-the-new-zines/ is also helpful
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KartikPrabhu is that linked from /diversity and post_about
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KartikPrabhu hmm it is on post_about
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KartikPrabhu :)
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tantek it's on http://indiewebcamp.com/Posts_about_the_IndieWeb yes
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KartikPrabhu nice concise article advocating build then iterate on usage patterns philosophy: http://alistapart.com/blog/post/it-was-just-a-thing
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/elfpavlik/513966688539537408/1562961949 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub (webmention)
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tantek !tell KevinMarks,benwerd I won't be in SF to host 2014-10-08 HWC, could you work with (KevinMarks, benwerd) to host https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-10-08-homebrew-website-club in SF? Thanks! -t
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@gigabytemag RT @anomalily: The #indieweb is the new zines- thoughts on diversity on internet: http://anomalily.net/the-indie-web-is-the-new-zines/ (twitter.com/_/status/515038505043771392)
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@gigabytemag RT @joshuajuran: Tonight's Homebrew Website Club meetup at Mozilla Portland and @MozSF: #indieweb https://twitter.com/joshuajuran/status/515010665568673792/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/515038570458120192)
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KevinMarks I may still be unable to go by then
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@gigabytemag RT @dietrich: Homebrew Website Club at Mozilla Portland+SF tonight. #indieweb. Portrait by @bretolius. http://bret.io/2014/09/25/hwc/ http://t.co/X… (twitter.com/_/status/515038590414643200)
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Loqi KevinMarks: tantek left you a message 2 minutes ago: I won't be in SF to host 2014-10-08 HWC, could you work with (KevinMarks, benwerd) to host https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-10-08-homebrew-website-club in SF? Thanks! -t
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ShaneHudson Any server experts around?
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KevinMarks http://nextcity.org/daily/entry/big-data-good-bad-help-disadvantaged-communities interesting thinking about diversity
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KevinMarks I'm not a server expert, but tell me the problem anyway
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alanpearce_ Also not an expert, but I can be helpful :)
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ShaneHudson Setting it up on Ubuntu (just because the two of us are familar with it), chosen RAID 5 over 3 HDDs and now trying to decide if I need LVM or not
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alanpearce_ I would prefer ZFS, but if you're going with Linux, then LVM is probably reasonable enough
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alanpearce_ (I know ZFS does work on Linux, but I don't think I'd trust it as much as I do on FreeBSD)
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ShaneHudson Ah ok, the installer I'm using (cheating I know lol) that comes with the server only has LVM or no LVM as options
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alanpearce_ You probably don't have to worry about http://serverfault.com/questions/217666/what-is-better-lvm-on-raid-or-raid-on-lvm then :)
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ShaneHudson Hah that could get confusing
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alanpearce_ But yeah, LVM means you can start with small partitions, which should help you out if you want to create more VMs/containers/jails/etc later
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ShaneHudson Ok cool, I will use that then :) cheers
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alanpearce_ ZFS doesn't work in the same way, which is why I like it. All filesystems (there are no partitions in ZFS) share the same pool of space unless you cut things up with quotas and reservations. Much simpler to think about :D
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ShaneHudson Oh yeah that makes sense
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alanpearce_ It does until you look at FS output for the first time and you find that somehow your 1TB drive shows 1TB free in 10 places :)
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ShaneHudson Lol!
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alanpearce_ And then there's the compression to confuse the numbers even more. The numbers just feel really 'hand-wavy'
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petermolnar ZFS is brilliant but can be problematic to get it on linux :)
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alanpearce_ Aye.
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ShaneHudson How come? Linux and BSD are so similar, what issues does it have?
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alanpearce_ It's under a different (GPL-incompatible) license for one, so it can never go in the mainline kernel
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alanpearce_ And it's actually a port from Solaris into BSD
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alanpearce_ People are working on it as a separate module though: http://zfsonlinux.org/
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ShaneHudson Ah I see
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@verlaine101 @poprock @aaronbassett a silo is a silo is a silo. Look at http://withknown.com/ and http://indiewebcamp.com/ syndication/publishing (twitter.com/_/status/515076923048067073)
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jonnybarnes alanpearce_: have you changed ssl cert recently, I get a "sec_error_ocsp_invalid_signing_cert" error on https://alanpearce.uk on firefox
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alanpearce_ welp
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alanpearce_ checks
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alanpearce_ Hmm, yeah.
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alanpearce_ I haven't changed it very recently.
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petermolnar that might as well indicat that the signer's cert you're chaining was revoked
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alanpearce_ I'm caching OCSP staple responses for a day
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petermolnar s/indicat/indicate
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Loqi petermolnar meant to say: that might as well indicate that the signer's cert you're chaining was revoked
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alanpearce_ Chrome doesn't do it :S
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petermolnar chrome has this setting off by default
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alanpearce_ is confused
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alanpearce_ I renewed my OCSP staple and it shows fine in openssl
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alanpearce_ Oh.
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alanpearce_ ` Not After : Sep 23 10:12:02 2014 GMT` in an intermediate cert
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alanpearce_ couldn't remember how many 'a's in "SHAAAAAAAAAAAAA" :/
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petermolnar :D
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petermolnar https://shaaaaaaaaaaaaa.com
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petermolnar 13
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@djp1974 RT @anomalily: The #indieweb is the new zines- thoughts on diversity on internet: http://anomalily.net/the-indie-web-is-the-new-zines/ (twitter.com/_/status/515079728244338689)
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@ShaneHudson @ckswarriorqueen @anomalily If you have any suggestions, just tag it #indieweb and we will all see :) We are all willing to help! (twitter.com/_/status/515080097762516993)
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barnabywalters good European morning #indiewebcamp
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ShaneHudson Good morning barnabywalters :)
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alanpearce_ Hmm, now I'm really confused.
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alanpearce_ None of my cert files (including intermediates) have that expiry date
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petermolnar 11:11 here, it's way passed morning, but good one for you as well :)
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petermolnar alanpearce_ could it be that chrome has the intermediate locally while FF fetches it from somewhere and that is revoked/invalid?
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alanpearce_ Found it.
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alanpearce_ Nginx doesn't refresh an SSL stapling file that's fetched outside of it until it's reloaded.
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alanpearce_ So it was using a really stale staple.
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jonnybarnes oh, is the simple fix to restart the nginx service?
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alanpearce_ Yeah.
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alanpearce_ I had a cron job already fetching a new staple every day
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petermolnar by the way, all upgrade your bash for the patched version
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jonnybarnes jokes on you, I use zsh
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petermolnar nice
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petermolnar do you have bash installed or is it default for ssh?
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alanpearce_ Thanks petermolnar, jonnybarnes :)
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jonnybarnes i have bash installed as well, but my login is set to use zsh
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rascul if you use zsh for you login shell that's fine, but are you certain bash isn't called elsewhere?
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jonnybarnes i still need to update tjough i think
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ShaneHudson Yeah worth updating regardless
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jonnybarnes a .sh file can still start #!/bin/bash
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jonnybarnes and thus run with bash
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jonnybarnes i think
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rascul http-header[Host] = () { :; }; rm -rf /var/www
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jonnybarnes wut?
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petermolnar as far as I'm aware, nginx will just laugh at that
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rascul is one way the bash vulnerability can get you
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rascul petermolnar no, it won't
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petermolnar how come? I cannot run cgi
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rascul nginx can't directly, but if you're using uwsgi to run cgi or something...
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petermolnar s/I /it
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Loqi petermolnar meant to say: how come? itcannot run cgi
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petermolnar no, php only
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jonnybarnes alanpearce_just confirming i can get on your site now
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rascul plus it's not immediately realized the scope of this, there's probably ways to pass that to bash that we're not realizing yet
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alanpearce_ jonnybarnes++
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Loqi jonnybarnes has 3 karma
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rascul but not using cgi is a pretty good step in the right direction regardless :)
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rascul all the major distros have pushed out updates to bash by now, but there's another cve because the patch wasn't complete
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petermolnar I have the security updates on autoinstall, so even if I forget today, it will be on the machines tomorrow
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rascul it's also been noted that bash stuff can be executed via dhcp
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petermolnar I'm only worried about openssh
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rascul probably harder to get it with ssh because it requires authentication
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jonnybarnes anyone know nay decent guides to get ocsp stapling working on nginx?
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alanpearce_ I was writing one for a while.
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alanpearce_ When I realised that I'd got something stupid wrong when verifying it :D
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alanpearce_ I should write up the little bits at some point.
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Loqi yea
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alanpearce_ Shut up Loqi!
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alanpearce_ :D
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alanpearce_ jonnybarnes: You should just need http://nginx.org/en/docs/http/ngx_http_ssl_module.html#ssl_stapling
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alanpearce_ jonnybarnes: Test with `echo ^D | openssl s_client -connect jonnybarnes.uk:443 -CAfile /opt/local/etc/openssl/cert.pem -servername jonnybarnes.uk -tls1_2 -status | grep OCSP`
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alanpearce_ Although you'll need to replace ^D with an actual EOF, which you can get with ctrl-v ctrl-d usually
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alanpearce_ (it usually shows up as inverted when it's correct)
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rascul jonnybarnes http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Rascul.io/ssl
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rascul i've got ocsp stuff in there
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alanpearce_ rascul: Might want to put `charset UTF-8;` in there :)
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rascul that's just for the ssl stuff, which i'll add to /nginx eventually
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rascul charset wasn't really in that scope when i wrote it up
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rascul http://shellshocktest.com/
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jonnybarnes ok, what should the file specified in ssl_trusted_certificate be, at the moment mine is the full chain, i.e. `root cert + intermediate cert + my sites cert`
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alanpearce_ jonnybarnes: cat $intermediate $root
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alanpearce_ I don't know why it's that way around.
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jonnybarnes right, ok
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rascul http://nginx.org/en/docs/http/ngx_http_ssl_module.html#ssl_trusted_certificate
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rascul jonnybarnes don't forget to check you setup with https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/
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@parzzix I think my @withknown is set up right...if some of my #indieweb friends can reply to this to see if things work .. http://timapple.com/2014/i-think-my-withknown-is-set-up-rightif-some-of (twitter.com/_/status/515096005986234368)
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jonnybarnes right, will try and sort OCSP out this afternoon
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jonnybarnes in the mean time, a charity car-wash awaits :)
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hmans I've tagged Pants r105, adding follower/following tracking via webmention and rel-following/rel-follower: https://github.com/hmans/pants/releases/tag/r105
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barnabywalters hmans: awesome! pretty sure that’s the first time anyone’s implemented webmention + rel-following consumption!
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barnabywalters hmans++
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Loqi hmans has 9 karma
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hmans \o/
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ben_thatmust hmans++
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Loqi hmans has 10 karma
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ben_thatmust i'll have to look in to adding support in openblog
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ben_thatmust so you currently aggregate posts from everyone you are following?
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barnabywalters hmans: given someone’s pants homepage, how should I discover the “following” page?
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barnabywalters e.g. https://github.com/barnabywalters/shrewdness/issues/34
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hmans barnabywalters, not implemented yet because I haven't really made up my mind regarding the best route to take. I'd prefer to mark up the link in the main navigation with some rel attribute, but I'm not sure.
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voxpelli hmans: cool addition!
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hmans Besides probably having to rename Pants (sigh), here's a high-level roadmap I posted earlier, in case anyone is following the project: http://hmans.io/grv862
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ben_thatmust hmans, i saw that. How about renaming it Shorts? *grin*
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ShaneHudson Or 'Not Pants', with a logo of P/=NP ;)
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barnabywalters hmans: underpants!
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barnabywalters reader-focused UI/backend brainstorming of the rel-followers thing, if anyone’s interested: https://github.com/barnabywalters/shrewdness/issues/6#issuecomment-56810334
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petermolnar my own WordPress: post_meta table, ~13k entries O.O
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ShaneHudson Hah that sounds like quite a few
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ShaneHudson I think I've successfully set up a 50/50 split on the server with lxc :) Just need to add to ip tables
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alanpearce_ Nice :)
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ShaneHudson Sadly, this is the easy bit lol. Migration is always horrid
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alanpearce_ http://ferm.foo-projects.org is nice if you want a configuration file for iptables
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barnabywalters ew iptables
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alanpearce_ Yeah, I don't like it much either :)
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barnabywalters remember to keep a ssh connection open all the time and test reconnection in another session, to avoid locking yourself out :)
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ShaneHudson I'm not too good with iptables, was just going to add forwarding to lxc
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petermolnar iptables is not that bad, unless you're doing it from a legacy shell script ::shivers::
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alanpearce_ barnabywalters: That's what I like about ferm, it has a flag which reverts the config if you don't/can't type 'yes'
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ShaneHudson alanpearce_: Oh that sounds useful lol
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@bennettscience IndieWeb advocates launch Known - a blogging platform you control. https://gigaom.com/2014/09/11/indieweb-advocates-launch-known-so-bloggers-can-be-social-and-still-control-their-content/ h/t @JamesDiGioia (twitter.com/_/status/515121051580530688)
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@kloptbaze IndieAuth - Sign in with your domain name https://indieauth.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/515122793588228096)
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ShaneHudson How easy is it to move from Apache to Nginx? My old/current server is on apache so migrating will be less hassle if I install apache but would love to change over sometime in the future
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alanpearce_ Depends what you're running
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ShaneHudson Distro?
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ShaneHudson Ubuntu
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alanpearce_ No, your site(s)
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alanpearce_ PHP/Python/etc
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ShaneHudson Ah right, quite a few different things
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ShaneHudson Well mostly all PHP
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petermolnar ShaneHudson it's fairly easy
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alanpearce_ It's a bit of a jump to go from mod_php to php-fpm but well worth it IMO
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petermolnar this helps for the rewrite rules: http://www.anilcetin.com/convert-apache-htaccess-to-nginx/
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alanpearce_ PHP will run its own service instead
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ShaneHudson Ok, I will do that then :) Apache for now but change over later on
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alanpearce_ Blergh, htaccess
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ShaneHudson Heh
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alanpearce_ ShaneHudson: It's less open than Nginx, but you might also consider OpenLitespeed, it strives to be a drop-in replacement for Apache and it's got a configuration web interface
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alanpearce_ Well, near-drop-in
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petermolnar just stick to nginx :)
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alanpearce_ Eh, I dunno, I don't like the way Nginx 'plus' is going
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petermolnar agreed, but they need to make money somehow
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ShaneHudson Heh yeah it is tempting to just stick to nginx, but I know apache quite well and would make migration harer
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ShaneHudson *harder
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alanpearce_ On the other hand, now would be the easiest time for you to do it
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alanpearce_ (assuming you haven't repointed things already)
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ShaneHudson This is true
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ShaneHudson Meh, might as well do it :)
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alanpearce_ That's the spirit :)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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Mark87 does anyone hav eany suggestions one what post editor to use for a custom blog?
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Mark87 something more advanced than textarea but easy to implement?
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Mark87 raw html output is fine
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ShaneHudson I don't have a suggestion but have a look around, I am sure there are plenty of good editors :)
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Mark87 yea i've been exposed to a few before, but i was just curious if anyone had any experience before i decide
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neuro` Mark87: depends. I like the way we're going on publify (demo at demo.publify.co/admin/content/new admin / admin), and we'll integrate zenpen
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neuro` Mark87: https://github.com/tholman/zenpen
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ShaneHudson Well Nginx appears to be working. Now to get some fresh air!
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tantek well good morning active #indiewebcamp channel!
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petermolnar good morning
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alanpearce_ Afternoon tantek
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tantek goes to read irc log on the web instead of backscroll :)
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neuro` Good morning tantek
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tantek what is ZFS?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "ZFS" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=ZFS
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tantek what is LVM?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "LVM" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=LVM
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tantek what is OCSP?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "OCSP" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=OCSP
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tantek is having trouble relating this morning's conversation to indieweb - is this all somehow related to /https ?
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alanpearce_ Some HTTPS, some hosting
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tantek alanpearce_: would be great if you (and maybe ShaneHudson ? ) could create some of those pages ^^^ with short one sentence definition and how it applies to the indieweb.
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tantek what is pants?
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Loqi Pants is the name of the software User:hmans.io is developing http://indiewebcamp.com/pants
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tantek what is openblog?
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Loqi OpenBlog is an open source blogging platform currently under development by ben.thatmustbe.me http://indiewebcamp.com/OpenBlog
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tantek nice
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reedstrm tantek - the value of context sensitive data - google probably has a very different answer to '
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reedstrm what is pants' :-)
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alanpearce_ Well, I don't think ZFS or LVM are really relevant unless you're part of the very few campers using dedicated servers
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ShaneHudson Hey tantek, I'm just heading off out but can sort the pages out when I get back :)
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tantek ShaneHudson: thanks much!
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hmans pants \o/
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ShaneHudson Perhaps Loqi needs to fallback to wikipedia?
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Loqi :)
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alanpearce_ Loqipedia. :)
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tantek alanpearce: it's worth a summary stub page even for just those campers :)
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reedstrm ShaneHudson: not a bad idea
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alanpearce_ Really? IMO they'd be better off going somewhere else which is more likely to have high-quality content
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tantek ShaneHudson: thought about the wikipedia fallback - but then that doesn't answer the question of - how does this relate to the indieweb?
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tantek which a wiki page on indiewebcamp.com should answer in the summary definition of the term
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ShaneHudson True but the tools we use to enable indieweb are not indieweb themselves.
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tantek e.g. ZFS stands for Z-something File System and is one of the options for indieweb sites maintained on dedicated [[web hosting]] servers.
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tantek (or something)
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reedstrm and why an indieweb person might care
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ShaneHudson Right I really am off now, speak soon :)
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tantek reedstrm++ right, that!
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Loqi reedstrm has 3 karma
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tantek otherwise the conversation seems detached from the subject area
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tantek (even though I do assume it's not detached, it's just not obvious to an observer who may be less technical)
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alanpearce_ Hmm, I think I kind of understand why now.
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alanpearce_ Still makes more sense to me to do my own research, but maybe I'm just strange.
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tantek alanpearce_: re: somewhere else which is more likely to have high-quality content <-- right - our stub pages can simply link to that instead of copy/pasting!
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tantek and our stub pages can simply provide the *context* of how this applies to the indieweb.
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alanpearce_ Alright. I'll get back to work first though—haven't really been productive at all today :(
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tantek sorry to hear that! better luck with the rest of the day!
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alanpearce_ Thanks :)
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tantek what is mod_php?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "mod_php" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=mod_php
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tantek what is php-fpm?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "php-fpm" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=php-fpm
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tantek what is htaccess?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "htaccess" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=htaccess
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tantek what is OpenLitespeed?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "OpenLitespeed" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=OpenLitespeed
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Loqi [mention] https://christiaanconover.com/blog/my-wordpressknown-dilemma linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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tantek I think I can try starting that last one
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tantek.com created /OpenLitespeed (+27) "r to canonical camelcase" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek uses "what is " as a todo list :)
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tantek.com created /OpenLiteSpeed (+358) "stub with dfn, see also" (view diff)
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: a *collective* todo list for us the community ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme so its more like //TODO:
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alanpearce_ It's not very queryable. :(
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alanpearce_ h-todo > p-entry :D
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tantek the more stubs for such jargon we can document and relate to the indieweb, the friendlier we make it to new folks who may not understand what's going on
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk, get on that
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tommorris.org created /adoption-blockers (+414) "starting this off" (view diff)
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tommorris.org edited /adoption-blockers (+444) "adding diversity" (view diff)
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@jmenglund03 @parzzix @withknown Replying to #indieweb test post...how did it work? (twitter.com/_/status/515154534130544640)
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dlyke Don't know how many of us are mucking about with Known, but Marcus Povey just published a LinkedIn plugin: https://www.marcus-povey.co.uk/2014/09/25/linkedin-syndication-support-for-known/
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dlyke (I'd guess that fewer are using LinkedIn than Known, but...)
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tommorris Everytime I want to use LinkedIn, I want to run away screaming.
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tommorris Their emails are ludicrously dark-pattern-ish. "People are looking at your profile" read a recent subject line. :)
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tantek yeah, that's not creepy at all!
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tantek what is LinkedIn?
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Loqi LinkedIn is a special-purpose silo for hosting your professional resume / history http://indiewebcamp.com/LinkedIn
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tantek tommorris: please do add that ^^^ to a /LinkedIn#Criticism section
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tantek.com edited /adoption-blockers (+20) "/* Diversity */ link code-of-conduct" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /adoption-blockers (+59) "citations please, rename Import Export to Import From Silos, and citation needed for "a lot of people"" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /adoption-blockers (+141) "see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /adoption-blockers (+22) "one more code-of-conduct link" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /adoption-blockers (+47) "/* Diversity */ note despite being founded by two men and two women" (view diff)
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tommorris.org edited /LinkedIn (+415) "creepy emails are creepy" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /Template:crystal (+152) "create since I'm using" (view diff)
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petermolnar tommorris in LinkedIns case you do want people to check your CV that is how you get a job, so I seriously disagree with that
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tommorris.org created /advocacy (+567) "new page" (view diff)
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tommorris petermolnar: sure, but it's the way the emails are phrased. I believe they used to be "Some recent visitors to your profile" and they've changed them now to "people are looking at your profile". it's designed to creep you out over your own profile
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@MR_ABUD RT @bennettscience: IndieWeb advocates launch Known - a blogging platform you control. https://gigaom.com/2014/09/11/indieweb-advocates-launch-known-so-bloggers-can-be-social-and-still-control-their-content/ h/t @JamesDiGioia (twitter.com/_/status/515159223479836672)
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petermolnar this might also be something that I don't feel as bad as you, probably due to not being English language native
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tantek.com edited /adoption-blockers (+200) "/* Diversity */ names and faces, note evidence of photos and IRC logs" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /advocacy (+64) "/* Good and bad practices */ Do listen and ask questions" (view diff)
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tantek tommorris++ for starting these pages
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Loqi tommorris has 54 karma
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tantek.com edited /User:Crystalbeasley.com (+45) "link to Crystal's previous user page" (view diff)
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tantek what is hmans?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "hmans" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=hmans
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hmans !
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tantek hey hmans! add an icon to your entry in http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people !
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tantek and then click on your link there and start a User: page! :)
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tantek.com edited /OpenLiteSpeed (+0) "put quotes where they belong, *inside* the sentence." (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme what is tantek
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Loqi Tantek Çelik is the co-founder of IndieWebCamp and works on open web standards at Mozilla http://indiewebcamp.com/Tantek
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ben_thatmustbeme whatis ben_thatmustbeme
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ben_thatmustbeme what is ben_thatmustbeme
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "ben_thatmustbeme" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=ben_thatmustbeme
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petermolnar seems like that only works for the old gods
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ben_thatmustbeme hah
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tommorris what is tommorris
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "tommorris" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=tommorris
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tommorris I was hoping for "a drunk and a cancer on human sanity". Oh well.
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ben_thatmustbeme tommorris, its just a redirect to his user: page
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ben_thatmustbeme you could do that too
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KevinMarks__ Hmans: Why is it no longer pants? You can have this old logo I made Check out @kevinmarks's Tweet: https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/426104313224511488
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@kevinmarks @panzer @tomcoates who needs a designer when I can make this logo in seconds? https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/426104313224511488/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/426104313224511488)
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tommorris My screen is filled with pants.
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hmans KevinMarks__, there's another open source project called Pants, developed by Twitter (among others), ironically
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tommorris.org created /tommorris (+32) "ego-redirect" (view diff)
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KevinMarks__ Could loqi return user pages for "who is x? "
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Loqi :)
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-09-24-homebrew-website-club (+158) "add photo!" (view diff)
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KevinMarks__ Oh, so they're edging you out on SEO?
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ben_thatmustbeme Kevinmarks__ that would be nice, it should be able to look up user pages by irc-people
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hmans KevinMarks, nah, nothing at all is happening so far, but if it helps avoid confusion (and a potential dispute at a later stage), I'm happy to find a new name for my projec.t
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hmans Pants isn't really the best name ever, either.
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hmans So it's all good.
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-09-24-homebrew-website-club (+10) "/* Photos */ by bret" (view diff)
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tantek hmans - I think Pants is a great name for your project! :)
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KevinMarks__ It is rather pejorative in UK English
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tantek KevinMarks: I think you meant "ironic" ;)
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hmans :b
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hmans Well, Pants (the other project) is a joint effort between Twitter, Square, and *Foursquare*, so I was tempted to rename my Pants to Swarm, just to piss them off.
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hmans Which would be a perfect name really.
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hmans Except they'll sue me and I'll be all sad and stuff.
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tantek the timeline /comments-presentation on soundcloud are amazing, e.g. https://soundcloud.com/razihel/get-lucky-razihel-remix
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tantek in all aspects, how they're displayed realtime while the song is playing, the use of mini mini icons displayed under the song itself etc.
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tantek anyone know of anyone else doing such realtime media fragment comment-presentation?
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KevinMarks__ Not on mobile though
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tantek what is comment-presentation?
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Loqi http://indiewebcamp.com/comment-presentation
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KevinMarks__ The thing is a lot of them aren't actually tied to a time, they were just typed in whilst the song was playing
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tantek are time-index comments fragmentions of another sort?
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KevinMarks__ Kind of - there is already a media fragments spec for those
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tantek KevinMarks: there's a separate "normal" comments display below
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tantek KevinMarks: does soundcloud (or anyone) use that media fragments spec ? I mean, any real world examples?
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KevinMarks__ Try this example, Tantek https://m.soundcloud.com/bestdropsever/a-drop-so-euphoric-that-your
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KevinMarks__ I think YouTube supports it
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barnabywalters tantek: I think kartikprabhu left a media fragments comment on https://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4SYMoz/ which I was going to try to do soundcloud-esque presentation of, but there’s some bug preventing it from working
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tantek what is a media fragment?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "media fragment" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=media+fragment
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tantek KevinMarks, barnabywalters ^^^ have at it :)
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barnabywalters additionally, that note is POSSEd (manually) to soundcloud, so there’s potential for backfeed of positional media comments too
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tantek yeah! capture that too!
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barnabywalters has
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barnabywalters ugh
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barnabywalters has to get actual work done now, will braindump there later
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tantek copy paste from IRC at least?
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shanehudson.net created /shanehudson (+34) "Redirecting to user page" (view diff)
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ShaneHudson what is shanehudson
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Loqi http://indiewebcamp.com/shanehudson
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ShaneHudson Interesting, didn't follow the redirect
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@kevinmarks » @dimensionmedia: "About 50% of the WordPress mobile app is the XML parsing library." @nacin #apistrat« legacy tech problems #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/515169283089780736)
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ben_thatmustbeme shanehudson, thats what loqi shows when you don't have a <dfn> tag in there
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ShaneHudson Oooh, didn't realise that (serves me right for not copying from another page lol)
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ben_thatmustbeme hmmm, I wonder
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /User:Ben.thatmustbe.me (+13) "dfn" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme what is User:ben.thatmustbe.me
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "User:ben.thatmustbe.me" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=User%3Aben.thatmustbe.me
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ben_thatmustbeme loqi, you lie!
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Loqi woot!
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ben_thatmustbeme what is User:Ben.thatmustbe.me
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "User:Ben.thatmustbe.me" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=User%3ABen.thatmustbe.me
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shanehudson.net created /ZFS (+238) "Quickly stubbing out some pages" (view diff)
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ShaneHudson what is zfs
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Loqi ZFS is a file system with a built-in logical volume manager (an alternative to LVM) that is often used on dedicated servers running BSD http://indiewebcamp.com/ZFS
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /irc/today (+105) "can't use #redirect to offsite pages" (view diff)
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shanehudson.net created /LVM (+184) "Qui" (view diff)
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ShaneHudson what is lvm
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Loqi LVM is a logical volume manager that is often used on dedicated servers running Linux http://indiewebcamp.com/LVM
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ben.thatmustbe.me created /ben_thatmustbeme (+36) "user redirect" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme who is ben_thatmustbeme
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ben_thatmustbeme what is ben_thatmustbeme
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "ben_thatmustbeme" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=ben_thatmustbeme
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ben_thatmustbeme what is Ben_thatmustbeme
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Ben_thatmustbeme" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Ben_thatmustbeme
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shanehudson.net created /OCSP (+191) "Quickly stubbing out some pages" (view diff)
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ShaneHudson I don't know much about OCSP so just put a stub in
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ben.thatmustbe.me created /Ben_thatmustbeme (+36) "user redirect" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme what is ben_thatmustbeme
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "ben_thatmustbeme" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=ben_thatmustbeme
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ShaneHudson what is OCSP
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Loqi Online Certificate Status Protocol (OCSP) is used for HTTPS, read more about it on Wikipedia http://indiewebcamp.com/OCSP
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ben_thatmustbeme i don't think Loqi likes the underscore
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shanehudson.net created /htaccess (+143) "Quickly stubbing out some pages" (view diff)
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ShaneHudson That will do for now :)
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kylewm is there any sort of comparison that explains the relationship between mf, microdata, schema.org, AS1/2, JSON-LD, RDFa, turtle, n3, etc.? I have a lot of trouble understanding e.g., which things are syntax and which are vocabularies
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kylewm and which are the same or successors to each other
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Mark87 kylewm++ I understand what about half of those are, but im very interested to know the other half
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Loqi kylewm has 59 karma
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tommorris kylewm: schema.org is a vocabulary. microformats used to be syntax+vocab, now those have been separated in mf2. JSON-LD is a layer of RDFing translation on top of JSON (think of it like an 'RDF stylesheet'!)
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@DodgerWA Don't know whether to chuckle or cry. What they're calling #IndieWeb, we used to call "The Web": "[A] way to cont... https://joindiaspora.com/p/4800083 (twitter.com/_/status/515178604331024384)
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tommorris kylewm: Notation3 is an RDF syntax that's human readable. RDFa is RDF in HTML.
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rascul https://ello.co - yet another silo
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rascul one that uses too much monospace and messes up back/forward buttons
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tommorris kylewm: microdata is Hixie's reimplementation of RDFa's use cases but without RDFa's RDFisms.
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tommorris kylewm: turtle and N3 are so similar you can just treat them as one. there are a few minor differences but just treat N3 as a superset of Turtle
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tommorris kylewm: ActivityStreams 1 is based on Atom. AS2 is based on JSON (and/or JSON-LD and/or a few other things to be determined)
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tommorris and now I need a drink.
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kylewm hahaha, tommorris thanks so much
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Mark87 rascul didn't u have a github with your file-storage system on it
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rascul my file storage system?
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rascul i just keep my content in a git repo https://git.rascul.io/crash/content
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tommorris "What they're calling #IndieWeb, we used to call "The Web"" —that is the exact point.
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Mark87 ohh that's what it was
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jonnybarnes ok, i give up, running `openssl` locally I get an OCSP response from my site, ssllabs.com still says I don;t have ocsp stapling though!
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danlyke kylewm tommorris are either of you copying these into the Wiki, or shall I? Good run-down!
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tommorris danlyke: go for it. :)
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rascul jonnybarnes the ocsp thing was a bit tricky for me to get setup, i can't remember what specifically the issue i was having was
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tantek what is openssl?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "openssl" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=openssl
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mko jonnybarnes: Same thing happens for one of the vulnerabilities fixed by openssl patch i
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kylewm danlyke: I would love to, where do you thnk would be appropriate?
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jonnybarnes what ive learnt so far is, if you have multiple ssl vhosts being served by nginx, you need one of them to be a `default_host` and have stapling enabled, otherwise none of them will.
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tantek kylewm - perhaps start by asking questions?
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tantek specifically, what is questions :)
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mko "OpenSSL CCS vuln. (CVE-2014-0224) Yes EXPLOITABLE (more info)" comes back as Exploitable no matter what I do, resulting in an SSLLabs score of F.
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kylewm what is Semantic Web?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Semantic Web" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Semantic+Web
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tantek what is a default_host?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "default_host" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=default_host
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tantek what is stapling?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "stapling" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=stapling
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jonnybarnes tantek, i don't think stapling shouls have its own page, its a part of ocsp, which is a part of https
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danlyke kylewm not sure, I just copied tommorris's responses off to a text file, was trying to figure out a title.
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tantek kylewm - see also the equivalent URLs on microformats.org/wiki/... <- you may be able to find material / answers to link to there rather than having to duplicate any generic references.
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jonnybarnes similarly default_host is a part of nginx config
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jonnybarnes mko, whats your site?
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mko mowens.com
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tommorris cross-wiki redirect to microformats.org (or wikipedia for stuff out-of-scope of both) might be useful
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mko It has something to do with the version of Ubuntu I'm running.
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tantek jonnybarnes: the way to do that is to create sections on those pages then, e.g. "stapling" as a section of /OCSP, and then redirect /stapling to that
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tantek what is mko?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "mko" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=mko
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jonnybarnes ah, ok
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ben_thatmustbeme what is ben_thatmustbeme
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jonnybarnes what is tantek
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tommorris yep, you can #REDIRECT [[page#target]] :)
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "ben_thatmustbeme" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=ben_thatmustbeme
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Loqi Tantek Çelik is the co-founder of IndieWebCamp and works on open web standards at Mozilla http://indiewebcamp.com/Tantek
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mko I'm using OpenSSL i which is patched, but it isn't registering as unexploitable.
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jonnybarnes ok, how do I get Loqi to know who I am
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Loqi who, me?
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tantek redirects are your friend - for both those use cases :)
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tantek what is jonnybarnes ?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "jonnybarnes " yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=jonnybarnes+
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ben_thatmustbeme Loqi doesn't like me, i have a redirect
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jonnybarnes am I redirecoting /jonnybarnes to /User:jonnybarnes.uk ?
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tantek that's a good start
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tantek what is User:Ben.thatmustbe.me?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "User:Ben.thatmustbe.me" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=User%3ABen.thatmustbe.me
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@kevinmarks “I've missed you. I’ve missed the connection, the community, the authenticity…” @Aubs http://aubreysabala.com/2014/09/25/returntothebeginning/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/515181771885785088)
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rascul.io edited /Ello (+153) "/* Criticism */ add rant about navigation buttons" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme maybe i should just move to benthatmustbeme.... *sign*
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jonnybarnes tantek: how do I set up a redirect on the wiki?
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ben_thatmustbeme s/sign/sigh/
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: maybe i should just move to benthatmustbeme.... *sigh*
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tantek what is a redirect?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "redirect" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=redirect
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rascul http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Redirects
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jonnybarnes I dont know why thats put a smile on my face
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kylewm danlyke: tantek: how about /metadata ?
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@willowdower RT @kevinmarks: “I've missed you. I’ve missed the connection, the community, the authenticity…” @Aubs http://aubreysabala.com/2014/09/25/returntothebeginning/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/515182275345272835)
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danlyke kylewm sounds great! We can always move it later.
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jonnybarnes.uk created /jonnybarnes (+33) "set up my username on the wiki, redirect it to my user page" (view diff)
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mko Man. Getting StartCom Identity Validation feels like it gives them like everything they'd need to completely hijack my identity.
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tantek.com created /redirect (+326) "stub with dfn, see also" (view diff)
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mko aaronpk: I'd love to know how you feel about StartCom's ID Validation process once you've finished it.
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mko Mine is in the final approval process right now.
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tantek.com edited /start_a_page (+129) "see also redirect" (view diff)
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tantek danlyke, kylewm I think the framing of "metadata" leads people down a confusing and unhelpful path.
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kylewm tantek: I thought you might ;)
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tantek jonnybarnes: HTH: /redirect :)
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jonnybarnes.uk edited /User:Jonnybarnes.uk (-16) "/* Jonny Barnes */ add dfn" (view diff)
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jonnybarnes what is jonnybarnes
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Loqi Jonny Barnes is from Manchester, UK http://indiewebcamp.com/jonnybarnes
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jonnybarnes sweet
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@ShaneHudson RT @kevinmarks: “I've missed you. I’ve missed the connection, the community, the authenticity…” @Aubs http://aubreysabala.com/2014/09/25/returntothebeginning/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/515184009165701121)
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mowens.com created /mko (+29) "/* redirect */" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks @DodgerWA well, quite. The web we remember before it got siloed. The web that could be refounded and remade. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/515184576746897408)
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ben_thatmustbeme i need to set up some way to store drafts and share them ... hmmm
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ben_thatmustbeme private posting may be on the horizon, haha
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mko I actually just implemented private posting for myself. I'm doing a 3-tiered posting system. Public, logged-in user, private.
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kylewm.com created /metadata (+1681) "Capture helpful comparison from tommorris, with note that this should be moved somewhere less confusing" (view diff)
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kylewm tommorris++ thanks again
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Loqi tommorris has 55 karma
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mowens.com edited /User:Mowens.com (+388) "/* dfn and links to site and Indie.js */" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /metadata (+108) "/* Discussion */ add links to IRC log" (view diff)
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mko what is mko
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Loqi Michael K. Owens is a designer and engineer living in San Francisco, CA who loves philosophy, personal data analysis, charity work, cycling, and games http://indiewebcamp.com/mko
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kylewm.com created /kylewm (+29) "redirect to user page" (view diff)
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tantek what is drafts?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "drafts" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=drafts
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kylewm.com edited /User:Kylewm.com (+261) "/* Need Help With */ note outcome of caching/performance question" (view diff)
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tantek what is scheduled?
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Loqi scheduling in the context of the indieweb, refers to the feature of setting a specific time for a post to be published in the future http://indiewebcamp.com/scheduled
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mko What is kylewm
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Loqi Kyle Mahan is a software developer in the SF bay area http://indiewebcamp.com/kylewm
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www.reedstrom.org created /User:Www.reedstrom.org (+358) "initial bio-dump" (view diff)
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reedstrm what is reedstrm
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "reedstrm" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=reedstrm
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/elfpavlik/513966688539537408/515188523670831104 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub (webmention)
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www.reedstrom.org created /reedstrm (+36) "redirect my usual username" (view diff)
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reedstrm what is reedstrm
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Loqi http://indiewebcamp.com/reedstrm
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tantek.com created /drafts (+19) "r" (view diff)
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kylewm reedstrm: if you put <dfn> tags around the subject of the article (in this case your name), Loqi will use the first sentence as a summary
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Loqi who, me?
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tantek.com created /draft (+802) "draft with dfn, why, examples, see also" (view diff)
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: there's a start for you: http://indiewebcamp.com/draft HTH
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tantek in particular I implemented really simple /scheduling as a method of writing / sharing drafts
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tantek a lot easier than fully private posts
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jonnybarnes is HTH = hope that helps?
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www.reedstrom.org edited /User:Www.reedstrom.org (+48) (view diff)
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reedstrm what is reedstrm
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Loqi Rosss Reedstrom (reedstrm most places) is a sysadmin and developer in the area of Open Education Resources http://indiewebcamp.com/reedstrm
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www.reedstrom.org edited /User:Www.reedstrom.org (-1) (view diff)
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reedstrm what is reedstrm
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Loqi Ross Reedstrom (reedstrm most places) is a sysadmin and developer in the area of Open Education Resources http://indiewebcamp.com/reedstrm
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tantek what is HTH?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "HTH" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=HTH
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KevinMarks__ https://twitter.com/UrsulaV/status/515194416693514241
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@UrsulaV Impression of Ello: Yes, yes, you're DESIGNERS, we can tell. Now stop making it look like a luxury hotel soap and make it functional. (twitter.com/_/status/515194416693514241)
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tantek.com created /HTH (+67) "stub with dfn" (view diff)
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reedstrm what is HTH
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Loqi HTH is an acronym for "hope that helps" http://indiewebcamp.com/HTH
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reedstrm really? Why not just roll all of wtf into Loqi :-)
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tantek reedstrm - lazy definitions, demand-based upon actual questions here in the channel.
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reedstrm Ah I see it above.
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tantek just for convenience, so anyone that doesn't understand something can ask "what is …" and more often than not get an answer :)
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@businessneed http://businessneedswebsite.com supports @indiewebcamp and help business to bring up own platform (twitter.com/_/status/515195844216102912)
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@kevinmarks @LynnMagic would love to chat about how #indieweb can help you build @collectqt (twitter.com/_/status/515196159128645632)
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reedstrm tantek Right - but extending Loqi to call wtf for those cases, rather than extending the wiki w/ lots of low value pages ... whatever :-)
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tantek reedstrm indeed!
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tantek there was a discussion earlier about how Loqi could keep a query count for any "what is" and then start saying that too
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tantek instead of just "it looks like we don't have…"
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reedstrm Also, am I the only one who reads HTH and HAND (and the pairing, esp.) as cynical? ISTR that might be contamination in my brain from a particular usenet group, populated by syadmins and other denizens of the lower planes.
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tantek more like "That's the second time someone has asked and we still don't have…"
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tantek nth time etc.
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reedstrm hehe - imaging special dialog for > 10th, w/ loqi going on a Jack Nicholson style rant "No, WE STILL DON'T HAVE IT _AND IF WE DID, YOU COULDN'T HANDLE IT"
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danlyke reedstrm I see it as cynical too, but I was also once known to hang out in the monastery.
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reedstrm yup, hat's the place
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reedstrm never configured posting there, which may have saved my career at least once :-)
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KevinMarks__ Interesting to see loqi repeat the jibot pattern, but with an actual wiki
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tantek an actual /community /commons wiki at that
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KevinMarks__ http://epeus.blogspot.com/2003/07/social-botware.html
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@withknown @loicmathaud We're not on IRC right now, although from time to time we're on #indiewebcamp on freenode. Email best for now. Thanks! (twitter.com/_/status/515198193013751808)
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tantek lol email is never best ;)
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tantek welcome loic_m!
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@loicmathaud @withknown I'm always on freenode but no problem to send you an email ;) (and joining #indiewebcamp :)) (twitter.com/_/status/515199098878955520)
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stevelle tantek: that comment about email surprises me
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loic_m hi tantek!
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tantek stevelle really? google emailefail :)
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kylewm surprise to see codinghorror has better SEO than tantek for that particular phrase
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@joeld @jtauber did you see my card from earlier today? With Webmention support TS could stand in functionally for Twitter or Ello 🙏 (twitter.com/_/status/515199631840788480)
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tantek kylewm because codinghorror has it ON HIS OWN DOMAIN, whereas mine is on a wiki silo :(
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tantek thus he deserves better seo
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tantek loic_m: nice clean personal site! http://loic.mathaud.fr/
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kylewm tantek: he links to you at http://tantek.com/log/2008/02.html#d19t2359
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tantek kylewm, in that case you're seeing the difference between a page with a slug with the search terms (codinghorror's permalink) vs. a page that is the static file for a month's "archive" with a fragment identifier as permalink
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@jtauber @joeld ooh, interesting. I'll look into https://www.brid.gy and webmentions. (twitter.com/_/status/515200120917622784)
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stevelle tantek: yeah, I can see your thoughts, but frankly don't agree with your analysis.
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loic_m tantek> thanks ;)
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kylewm tantek: gotcha, I have not seen these older archives of yours
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tantek stevelle: cool. you're welcome (and encouraged) to blog about how you're able to productively use email!
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tantek kylewm - as documented on /file-storage#IndieWeb_Examples :)
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loic_m tantek> I should write more often btw
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tantek loic_m: I like that sentiment!
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reedstrm loic_m: a common feeling around here, I'm sure
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loic_m eheh
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stevelle tantek: let me just ask you this, as I form my thoughts on it. do you have a decentralized alternative for semi-private communications?
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loic_m like "I'd like to share lots of things!", then "Hum I don't know what to talk about" :)
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tantek loic_m: how about this, check out http://indiewebify.me/ with your personal site and see how it does!
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loic_m but today I'm happy to have found Known, exactly what I need to setup a private family network to share thoughts and photos
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tantek cool
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loic_m was thinking about creating my own stuff but no need anymore
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tantek stevelle: re: decentralized alternative for semi-private communications - depends on specific use-cases.
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loic_m tantek> I will take time to read indiewebify, looks a but complicated at first
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tantek that's good feedback.
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tantek loic_m how about http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started then?
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tantek is that less complicated / easier to start with?
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loic_m yep, I already completed some steps
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loic_m my own domain, my own data, …
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@joeld @jtauber with Webmentions I’d say “single-purpose microblogs“ would be one feature *within* TS and it would fit very nicely. (twitter.com/_/status/515202554939326464)
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tantek loic_m: cool! how about http://indiewebcamp.com/How_to_set_up_web_sign-in_on_your_own_domain ?
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loic_m I'll look at it! (but for now I'm installing Known on a personal domain name to have our own family network tonight)
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tantek why not do both? :)
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loic_m because I'm so bad at doing more than once thing at once ;)
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loic_m s/once/one/
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Loqi loic_m meant to say: because I'm so bad at doing more than one thing at one ;)
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reedstrm ages ago, I let google handle my personal domain (mostly to get email for all family members, ironically enough) What are people doing for hosting?
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/elfpavlik/513966688539537408/515202211698475008 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub (webmention)
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tantek what is web hosting?
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Loqi Web hosting is perhaps the primary regular cost in maintaining an Indie Web Site (more expensive than most domain name registrations/renewals) http://indiewebcamp.com/web_hosting
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tantek reedstrm: ^^^
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Mark87 amazon ec2 vps free tier
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tantek or even
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tantek what is hosting?
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Loqi Web hosting is perhaps the primary regular cost in maintaining an Indie Web Site (more expensive than most domain name registrations/renewals) http://indiewebcamp.com/hosting
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tantek what is ec2?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "ec2" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=ec2
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ben_thatmustbeme i use hostt.net, they are ok for now, does what I want.
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tantek.com created /amazon (+20) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /Amazon (+308) "stub with dfn, services" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /ec2 (+24) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Amazon_S3 (+21) "linky linky" (view diff)
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tantek what is seo?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "seo" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=seo
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tantek.com created /seo (+17) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /SEO (+634) "stub with example from today's IRC chat, dfn, see also" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks “Link to everything you create elsewhere on the web. And if possible, save a copy of it on your own blog.” http://dashes.com/anil/2014/09/15-lessons-from-15-years-of-blogging.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/515206691718066176)
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tantek Mark87, could you start http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=Amazon_EC2&action=edit&redlink=1 with a brief description / link to more about amazon ec2 vps free tier?
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finchd Mark87: EC2 free is only free the first year
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tantek KevinMarks: is Anil advocating PESOS?
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tantek rather than POSSE?
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Mark87 @tantek I can certainly give it a go
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tantek.com edited /scheduling (+29) "see also draft" (view diff)
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Mark87 finchd yea unfortunately. Long enough to implement something tho.
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aaronpk what is wtf?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "wtf" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=wtf
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Mark87 finchd I think if you were less than honest you could just sign up again with another email address and get another year for free, but im not advocating that
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finchd Mark87: and moving vms between said accts may not work out
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Mark87 what is vps
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finchd I'm thinking of making an AWS acct for Glacier backups, but won't have time to indieweb until graduation in March
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Loqi A Virtual Private Server (AKA VPS) is a level of webhosting service where you get root access to a virtual system and can install whatever you want http://indiewebcamp.com/VPS
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reedstrm snerk PESOS
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markmurfin.com created /Amazon_EC2 (+181) "Created ~~~~" (view diff)
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reedstrm somehow, ending up w/ very wild-west acronyms POSSEs and PESOS
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Mark87 what is amazon ec2?
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Loqi http://indiewebcamp.com/Amazon_EC2
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tantek.com edited /Amazon_EC2 (+94) "stub, dfn, see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Amazon_EC2 (+1) "/dfn" (view diff)
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tantek what is amazon ec2?
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Loqi Amazon EC2, or "Elastic Cloud Compute", is an Amazon.com service that rents out Virtual Private Servers with a variety of Operating System, Pricing, CPU, and Memory options http://indiewebcamp.com/Amazon_EC2
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Mark87 nice
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finchd may want to nest that under AWS, which has EC2, EBS, Glacier, load-balancing...
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tantek what is AWS?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "AWS" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=AWS
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sparverius tantek: amazon
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tantek what is EBS?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "EBS" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=EBS
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sparverius oh
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tantek what is Glacier?
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sparverius fuck
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Glacier" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Glacier
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tantek ;)
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sparverius WELL
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sparverius i have WALKED INTO THIS
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tantek sparverius: help ^^^ ? :)
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Loqi hehe
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tantek gives Loqi a treat.
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finchd has no webspace yet to indieauth or he'd stub those
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Loqi thanks, tantek!
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tantek.com created /registrar (+35) "r" (view diff)
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4c4d.com created /AWS (+78) "creating the page - 🎆" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme lets see how many random things i can implement today, drafts, geotags, deleted items, hmmm
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4c4d.com edited /AWS (+268) (view diff)
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: It sounds like you're starting an "Itches" list.
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ben_thatmustbeme actually i'm kinda scratching at the moment
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Mark87 well I have some rudimentary flat file storage going on. My very basic editor save my posts as very simple html files to the filesystem, and my viewer loads them back and displays them
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ben_thatmustbeme needed to do some DB changes, so i figured as long as i'm at it ...
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tantek wonders where drafts, geotags, deleted items fit on http://indiewebcamp.com/ben_thatmustbeme#OpenBlog ;)
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danlyke Stupid q: Is there a super compelling reason to use <article class="h-entry"> vs <div class="h-entry">? Asking for legacy layout reasons.
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tantek super compelling? no.
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tantek use the simplest markup that works for you.
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danlyke Sweet. Then I think Flutterby.com is microformats2 enabled. Enough that a syndicator which used it could read it.
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tantek Mark87, perhaps add your flat file storage in progress as an entry here: http://indiewebcamp.com/file-storage#IndieWeb_Examples
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tantek (IMO all flat file storage is "in progress", mine included, as we keep coming up with new things for it to do :) )
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Mark87 @tantek I should add myself to IRC people as well probably
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tecgirl hey, tantek, have you upgraded to iOS8 (not 8.0.1) - I noticed today that all my custom homescreen icons are gone! Boo!
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tantek yes definitely add yourself to /irc-people !
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tantek tecgirl no I'm waiting for the usual buggy iOS versions shakeout
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tecgirl no big deal to resave but weird that the cache would remove them. and, smart man.
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tecgirl also if I resave/readd to homescreen the previous icon shows
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tecgirl oh, apple. you amuse me.
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /User:Ben.thatmustbe.me (+138) "/* OpenBlog */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme happy now tantek :P
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markmurfin.com created /User:Markmurfin.com (+13) "Created page with "Hello, world!"" (view diff)
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markmurfin.com edited /IRC_People (+53) (view diff)
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@parzzix So how do I get my replies to other peoples post to show up? I get the replies to my post. @withknown #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/515214551483052033)
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markmurfin.com edited /file-storage (+282) (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme been quite the wiki edit day
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markmurfin.com edited /file-storage (+99) "/* Mark87 */" (view diff)
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@OnTheWebz RT @t: Great post by @anomalily on #indieweb #pseudonymity "The Indie Web is the new Zines" http://anomalily.net/the-indie-web-is-the-new-zines (ttk.me t4YH1) (twitter.com/_/status/515215548813041664)
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bret___ nice post by Anil! http://dashes.com/anil/2014/09/15-lessons-from-15-years-of-blogging.html
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bret___ is there a good section on the wiki for "why blogs are good" /why
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bret___ ?
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@davidmead Now if I could post on @withknown and have it shared to #ello that'd be cool. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/515219164727087106)
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@_jden "corporate control has led to deletion of whole identities" ICYMI great post on indieweb http://anomalily.net/the-indie-web-is-the-new-zines/ h/t @anomalily (twitter.com/_/status/515219545745674240)
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KartikPrabhu hmm now people are asking for POSSE to ello already!? how many new silos will Known support?
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aaronpk that should work more like how planet aggregators work
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aaronpk ello should be able to pull posts from my site
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aaronpk that way things like Known don't have to go implement a bunch of snowflake APIs to support new silos
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Mark87 what is snowflake
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Loqi snowflake in the context of the indieweb, is typically used to refer in a derogatory way to "snowflake APIs", APIs that are (often silo) website or service provider-specific (unique like snowflakes) rather than an open standard http://indiewebcamp.com/snowflake
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KartikPrabhu that is the thing with silos though. Once I support Twitter for commenting on my site, people will ask for support to their fav silo.
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KartikPrabhu "why do you support Twitter but not Ello?"
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reedstrm and like snowflakes, often melt soon after falling
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk, loqi hates me
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Loqi grins profusely
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ben_thatmustbeme what is ben_thatmustbeme
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "ben_thatmustbeme" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=ben_thatmustbeme
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bret.io created /chocolatey (+185) "Created page with "{{ stub }} <dfn>Chocolatey</dfn> is a package manager for windows that runs in powershell. It can be used to install developer tools, dependancies as well as desktop GUI applic..."" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ hm, how about doing POSSE syndication by micropub?
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KevinMarks_ so then known can send out to anyone who supports micropub
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KevinMarks_ and the question gets reversed, and people are lobbying ello to support micropub
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KevinMarks_ and we build one micropub-to-silo gateway per silo
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bret.io created /homebrew (+335) "Created page with "{{ stub }} <dfn>Homebrew</dfn> is a package manager for OS X that is uses git and ruby scripts to install programs into /usr/local automagically. * I <3 homebrew. --~~~~"" (view diff)
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bret.io edited /homebrew (+17) (view diff)
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tantek KevinMarks - simpler than micropub would be consuming PuSH feeds the way Google Buzz used to.
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bret.io edited /chocolatey (+97) (view diff)
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tantek or heck, ask Ello to add support to *directly* getting updates from PuSH feeds/sites.
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tantek as status.net used to support
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tantek e.g. people on status.net saw my notes from tantek.com (via PuSH + Atom) in their reader view because that actually worked.
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KevinMarks_ both are options; PuSH makes sense if you are primarily a reader; micropub if you're primarily a blog
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KevinMarks_ and as friendfeed still supports
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tantek still supports what?
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tantek what is friendfeed?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "friendfeed" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=friendfeed
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KevinMarks_ friendfeed still supports importing lots of things
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KevinMarks_ 58 apparently
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Mark87 friendfeed still runs? o_O
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KevinMarks_ I suspect many of those are in site-deaths though
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tantek KevinMarks that's not been my experience with Friendfeed - it appeared to stop importing everything of mine
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tantek hence if you think it still works, please document it
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KevinMarks_ hm, seems to only have some of my stuff
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KartikPrabhu but people are not asking silos to support indieweb but indieweb to support silos
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@kyle_wm @davidmead IMHO, syndicating to every new social data silo shouldn’t be the goal of #indieweb. POSSE is really just… https://kylewm.com/reply/2014/09/25/5/imho-syndicating-to-every-new-social (twitter.com/_/status/515227254297591808)
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tantek right, in the short term we can ignore POSSEing to new silos because most of them flame out
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tantek it's only worth POSSEing to silos where you have friends that you want to reach. that's pretty much it.
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tantek friends over federation as it were
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kylewm basically just repost aaronpk's http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2013/03/28/1/an-open-challenge-to-app-net and s/app.net/ello
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aaronpk ha
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mko aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 567 karma
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aaronpk dalton did come to portland, but not for indiewebcamp
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Mark87 @tantek Friends over Federation ought to be a slogan somewhere
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KevinMarks_ ello has a differnt agenda from app.net
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aaronpk stickers maybe?
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tantek has said that in talks before, thought he put it on the wiki
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aaronpk any designers here want to put together a sticker with that on it?
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aaronpk i would get it printed for sure
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aaronpk speaking of which, I have a ton more indiewebcamp stickers arriving tomorrow!
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aaronpk I can ship some to the chicago and minneapolis groups!
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tantek aaronpk - I'm actually running out would you believe!
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aaronpk nice!
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tantek are they diecut like the ones Crystal made? with the sweet rounded corner?
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aaronpk yep! should be exactly the same!
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reedstrm wonders if a Houston group might start up ...
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tantek reedstrm: just takes two to start. see Chicago for example!
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bret___ I want an IW/IWC/HWC hexagonal stickers. might try to put something together soon
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Loqi gives bret___ an IW
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aaronpk gimme a design!
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KevinMarks_ ello have a manifesto: https://ello.co/wtf/post/manifesto
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KevinMarks_ note the DRY violation if you click "read the manifesto" on the left
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aaronpk that's what I was looking for http://dybskiy.com/laptop-sticker-standard/
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cuibonobo just did a cat access.log | grep '() { :;}'
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bret___ aaronpk ya!
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cuibonobo and woulndcha know it
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cuibonobo already 2 hits
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KevinMarks_ PESATAS is on their to do list: Auto-push posts to other networks https://ello.co/wtf/post/featurelist##Auto-push+posts
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tantek need to channel Tina Turner here: "We don'd need another si-lo"
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tantek s/don'd/don't
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Loqi tantek meant to say: need to channel Tina Turner here: "We don't need another si-lo"
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KevinMarks_ are there enough people in NY for a HWC? Aubs?
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tantek Mark87 re: friends over federation: here you go http://tantek.com/2011/181/b1/google-plus-pownce-friends-federation-data-export-summer-social-war
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aaronpk cuibonobo: oh hey me too
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tantek and http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2011-07-13/line/1310584637000
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Mark87 @tantek++
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cuibonobo seriously guys. if anything you love touches the internet, you need to patch it pronto
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cuibonobo aaronpk: nothing too nefarious yet. just pings and telnets. seems like the bad guys are making lists of vulnerable sites
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kylewm whoa, 2 for me too
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KevinMarks_ it's like "attack of the weird emoticons"
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kylewm cuibonobo++ thanks
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Loqi cuibonobo has 9 karma
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mko KevinMarks_: I don't think Aubs is in IRC yet. I haven't seen her in here anyway.
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tantek cuibonobo: wait what - how do we patch everything? is this regarding bash vulnerability?
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mko Yeah. It's a pretty big bash vulnerability.
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cuibonobo tantek: yes. Apple hasn't released an update yet, but most linux distros have a fix
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tantek until Apple releases an update, what are we supposed to disable to lock this down?
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tantek "cat: access.log: No such file or directory"
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Mark87 I've got one hit, they got a 404
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aaronpk well ya gotta find your access log
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@davidmead Hmm. I guess I’m on the fence @kyle_wm. While I agree that it’s not a primary goal of #indieweb, #POSSE can’t be… (http://davidjohnmead.com/2014/09/25/761/) (twitter.com/_/status/515231999892520960)
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cuibonobo tantek: the only way to patch Apple products at the moment is to download the latest version of bash and compile it
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tantek what is access.log?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "access.log" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=access.log
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mko A simple "apt-get upgrade" on a Linux server is all you need to do to patch it.
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tantek cuibonobo: presumably there's a way to close ports or some such?
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kylewm KevinMarks_: it also looks kinda like a fork bomb
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mko Mac is a little SOL, but less vulnerable by the nature of being less server-oriented.
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tantek mko - I don't think "simple" should ever be used to describe anything "apt-get" or "Linxu"
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Mark87 I read the redhat post, but I don't quite understand what its doing
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cuibonobo tantek: the vulnerability is for bash, so it's not limited to any port per se
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tantek s/Linxu/Linux
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Loqi tantek meant to say: mko - I don't think "simple" should ever be used to describe anything "apt-get" or "Linux"
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mko tantek: For anyone running Linux, apt-get upgrade is easy.
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cuibonobo tantek: regarding the access log, usually web servers have a log of all their visitors somewhere
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cuibonobo so you wouldn't necessarily have one on your local machine
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aaronpk anyone know how to fix fedora?
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tantek is this only for web servers then? I read more than that into "anything you love touches the internet"
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KevinMarks_ so you can just send linux that magic string followed by apt-get upgrade
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tantek what is fedora?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "fedora" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=fedora
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cuibonobo tantek: if, for example, you take your laptop to an internet cafe, it's technically possible to sniff your IP and run arbitrary code on your machine
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cuibonobo i say "technically possible" because nobody has published a how-to yet
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tantek even though I'm not running an externally responding web server?
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aaronpk couldn't I go around updating other people's ubuntus by doing '() { :;} sudo apt-get upgrade' on remote hosts? :P
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aaronpk tantek: you are running apache on your laptop, it's probably listening on 0.0.0.0 rather than just localhost
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tantek what is localhost?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "localhost" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=localhost
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cuibonobo tantek: the vulnerability is pretty extensive. for example, routers don't normally sanitize DHCP messages when they're assigning an IP address to you, so you could potentially run arbitrary code just in the process of getting an IP address from a router
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tantek I ask these questions to prompt Loqi because we need to document simple answers to these if we have any hope of expanding the reach / understanding of all this stuff.
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Loqi grins profusely
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tantek gives Loqi another treat.
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aaronpk man I gotta ditch my old fedora servers already
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rascul tantek http://apple.stackexchange.com/a/146851
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rascul for how to test and update on mac
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neuro` Speaking of vulns, do some of you host their site on Amazon?
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tantek hopes that web hosting providers are automatically fixing this vulnerability ASAP
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tantek individuals should not have to deal with this
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Mark87 neuro yes
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aaronpk shared hosts should be doing it automatically yes
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aaronpk but VPS hosts are not responsible for that layer and should at best be proactively telling you if you're vulnerable and how to fix it
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aaronpk amazon did a good job of that with heartbleed
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@elfpavlik @BarnabyWalters plain JSON has as wide support plus *human* readability! IMO those examples look awful to read/debug http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#New_Article (twitter.com/_/status/515234668715995137)
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rascul i believe amazon patched their stuff yesterday
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tantek perhaps this is worth documenting as a /VPS admin responsibility?
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cuibonobo aaronpk: you're right. i feel like i should've gotten an email from digitalocean by now
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aaronpk rascul: but if you have any EC2 servers then you'll ahve to patch them yourself
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KevinMarks_ also on ello: https://twitter.com/waxpancake/status/515203789335179264
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@waxpancake Ello raised $435k in seed funding from FreshTracks Capital in March. http://www.freshtrackscap.com/fund-iii-companies/Ello (twitter.com/_/status/515203789335179264)
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danlyke env x='() { :;}; sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade -y' bash -c "Patched it for you"
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rascul aaronpk yes, i probably could have expanded my statement
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KevinMarks_ your mac is running apache and is autodiscoverable
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neuro` aaronpk: it took Amazon ages to fix heartbleed on their ELB, leaving their clients with a vulnerable OpenSSL for days.
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aaronpk EVERYBODY THE SAFEST WAY TO AVOID THE VULNERABILITY IS TO TURN OFF YOUR COMPUTER AND NEVER TURN IT BACK ON
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aaronpk that'll solve it
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rascul aaronpk++
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reedstrm danlyke: LOL!
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Loqi aaronpk has 568 karma
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neuro` aaronpk: yeah, no more end users. I'm dreaming about it.
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aaronpk neuro++
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Loqi neuro has 1 karma
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reedstrm danlyke: tuck that in a header, and fireup the scanner. Hmm, metasploit module ...
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KevinMarks_ CollectQT is worth a look - a spec for a LGBTQ-friendly social network
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tantek what is CollectQT?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "CollectQT" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=CollectQT
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tantek KevinMarks - then is it worth you starting a wiki stub for it? ;)
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KevinMarks_ heh, looks like I get to write in both places: https://twitter.com/LynnMagic/status/515236092400783360
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@LynnMagic @kevinmarks @CollectQT !Can you poke in here https://gitlab.com/collectqt/quirell/issues/5 ? Or just on the issues list in general? (twitter.com/_/status/515236092400783360)
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danlyke reedstrm I saw some wistful hypothesizing today about what good could be done with some DHCP servers that have a large number of clients, and what responsibility re possibilities for disaster was with owning those DHCP servers...
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tantek aaronpk - I'm seeing an SSL error in IndieAuth trying to scan https://bit.parts/ for IndieWebCamp login - can you take a look and see what SSL error that is?
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aaronpk looks like a new root cert that the server deosn't know about
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jonnybarnes so I have OCSP stapling working on my site according to ssllabs :)
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rascul jonnybarnes++
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Loqi jonnybarnes has 4 karma
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aaronpk what is OCSP stapling?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "OCSP stapling" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=OCSP+stapling
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tantek what is OCSP?
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jonnybarnes though not entirely sure how I got it working...
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Loqi Online Certificate Status Protocol (OCSP) is used for HTTPS, read more about it on Wikipedia http://indiewebcamp.com/OCSP
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tantek what is stapling?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "stapling" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=stapling
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aaronparecki.com created /OCSP_stapling (+17) "r" (view diff)
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ShaneHudson tantek: I linked quite a few of them to Wikipedia, is that okay?
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tantek that's great for a stub. even better would be to update the summary definition/description to explain its relation to the indieweb
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jonnybarnes basically I went through my nginx.conf and all my vhost files, cleaned them up and then voila
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tantek otherwise it's just confusing detached technobabble to the average reader - like why is this on the indiewebcamp site, and why are people in the channel talking about it? how is this on topic?
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rascul i think my sister will come to the first day of indiewebcamp cambridge
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tantek think of it this way, reading the IRC logs should make you feel like you're learning something relevant to the indieweb
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rascul i should probably verify that, then... add her as an apprentice?
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jonnybarnes tantek: hmmm, I would say these kinds of pages should be linked to /https
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tantek jonnybarnes: that's already a big page
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tantek better to have smaller pages that describe why any specific topic was worth bringing up in the indiewebcamp context
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jonnybarnes why should I make my site https is part of the indieweb, it verifies who you are to other people etc etc
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rascul big wiki pages are often a turn off for me
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tantek sure, but then why do you have to worry about details like OCSP or stapling?
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jonnybarnes ocsp stapling is part of setting up ypur site as https as well as possible
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tantek rascul - right - hence we need to make smaller ones
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tantek jonnybarnes: *why*? why does it matter to have to know about OCSP stapling?
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rascul when there's too much information on one page i find it can gets cumbersome and harder to navigate
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tantek every such piece of techno jargon needs a wiki page with a big == Why == section at the top which asnwers that question
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tantek rascul that's exactly right
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rascul tbh i think just a one line plug in /https would be fine for ocsp stapling
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rascul which is maybe contradictary to what i just said...
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tantek a one line "why" answer is fine for a stub too :)
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aaronpk hm my twitter tokens seem to have expired. was there some twitter hack recently?
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rascul tantek i agree
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cuibonobo aaronpk: could be they updated their servers and expired all tokens just to be sure
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aaronpk ah yeah true
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/elfpavlik/513966688539537408/876081 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/elfpavlik/515234668715995137/515241268411002881 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#New_Article (webmention)
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aaronpk (btw i'm working on making those mentions look better in the logs)
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jonnybarnes I was able to post to twitter 10mins ago
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jonnybarnes via a token that is
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/elfpavlik/515234668715995137/876081 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#New_Article (webmention)
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aaronpk using old access tokens?
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jonnybarnes aaronpk: yup
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aaronpk huh
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ShaneHudson I think I've figured out how to get micropub/indieauth working in craft btw :)
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bret go ShaneHudson++
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aaronpk woo!
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aaronpk 23.20.141.11
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Loqi !dns 23.20.141.11
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Loqi ec2-23-20-141-11.compute-1.amazonaws.com
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aaronpk shit wrong window
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bret XD
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kevinmarks.com created /CollectQT (+218) "Created page with "{{stub}} <dfn>[https://gitlab.com/collectqt/quirell CollectQT]</dfn> is a project to build a LGBTQ-aware social network. Currently documented as a series of issues on Gitlab, bas..."" (view diff)
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bret i put my nickserv pass into #ubuntu before
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jonnybarnes what, Loqi can turn an ip address into a domain?
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aaronpk thanks for the DNS lookup, Loqi
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Loqi you're welcome
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KevinMarks_ what is CollectQT?
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Loqi CollectQT is a project to build a LGBTQ-aware social network http://indiewebcamp.com/CollectQT
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tantek and by "network" you mean silo right?
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aaronparecki.com edited /JSON (+485) "problems handling JSON POST requests" (view diff)
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aaronpk feel free to move that around tantek
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ben_thatmustbeme yay drafts work
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Loqi woot
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kylewm wow no joke, a lot of the CollectQT people are on ello
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tantek thanks aaronpk.
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tantek adds /metadata /JSON to his new edits to do queue for today.
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /User:Ben.thatmustbe.me (+73) "drafts work!" (view diff)
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ShaneHudson tantek: They seemed interested when KevinMarks_ mentioned indieweb
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tantek good!
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kylewm could you build a centralized social network as a commons?
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kylewm i'm thinking yes
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aaronpk what is a commons?
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Loqi A commons (plural: http://indiewebcamp.com/commons
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aaronpk aw crap english is hard
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kylewm mmm, requiring content be licensed would be tricky
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kylewm for a community focused on privacy/safety
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kylewm open licensed*
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tantek indeed.
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kylewm so is there something between a silo and commons where you have free access to your own data but not necessarily to everyone elses?
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kylewm (think i just described all the silos)
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cuibonobo kylewm: user-restricted access is a thing most APIs can do
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tantek kylewm: right. and I think with "free access" you get all the silo misbehaviors
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tantek in contrast to say, paid web hosting.
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cuibonobo i'm actually more interested in who would pick up the server costs for this commons
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tantek cuibonobo: thanks for starting /diversity
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cuibonobo tantek: you're welcome
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tantek.com edited /CollectQT (+65) "smells like a silo for now, see also" (view diff)
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tantek cuibonobo: see also http://indiewebcamp.com/adoption-blockers started by tommorris and feel free to add more thoughts there too
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tantek in addition, I'm curious to hear your impression of anomalily's post http://anomalily.net/the-indie-web-is-the-new-zines/
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ben_thatmustbeme working draft for my post to introduce friends to what is indieweb and why its needed
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ben_thatmustbeme https://ben.thatmustbe.me/post/2014/9/25/2/open_call
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ben_thatmustbeme i have barely even edited yet
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cuibonobo tantek: i really like anomalily's analogy and it *would* be apt, except setting up an indie website is more involved than zines.
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cuibonobo tantek: zine culture is great and the reason it's great is that anyone can photocopy some pages and staple them together
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cuibonobo tantek: but i don't think the indieweb is there yet
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rascul withknown helps
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cuibonobo rascul: very much! but how are they gonna pay for all these free accounts?
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ShaneHudson tantek: Did Matt talk to you any further? Would be incredible (and even help their business in some respect) to have indieweb in core Wordpress
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rascul cuibonobo that is not something i can answer
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kylewm cuibonobo: i liked your edit comment on /diversity about balancing the energy used to write /different
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KevinMarks That's a good start Ben, and with some cross heads and a bit of copy editing should come out well (it's a bit Beatles at the moment)
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tommorris Trying to grok the last few hours of IWC but too drunk.
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, i have a lot of work to do on it. just more wanted to test out draft article sharing first
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ben_thatmustbeme :P
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cuibonobo rascul: are they willing to keep the site up and host this data potentially forever? if not, do they have a backup plan for putting all that data on archive.org, for example?
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KevinMarks Cuibonono in a similar way WordPress does - charging for group installs and support, but having the core open source
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cuibonobo withknown is taking on a huge responsibility and i worry for them
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rascul cuibonobo i don't know :(
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aaronpk running *.withknown.com sites is not really indieweb friendly, since the users don't actually own the domain
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aaronpk i think we're talking about people who install Known on their own server
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ShaneHudson Before this week, I can't remember the last time I saw the word 'grok'. But I have seen it so much this week, very strange
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KevinMarks Yes, they are replicating to archive.org
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ben_thatmustbeme AH, i just had a great realization, with the display earlier of rel=follower / rel=following i can finally figure out how to populate a micropub endpoint with people to share a post privately to / start an Indiemessaging conversation
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aaronpk when it's possible to go to dreamhost, buy a domain and install Known with one click, then we're getting somewhere
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ShaneHudson ben_thatmustbeme++
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme has 16 karma
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KevinMarks They are working on integrating domain hosting
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kylewm ShaneHudson: perhaps when you read stranger in a strange land
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KevinMarks They also can host domains eg AndrewMarks.media but that is not turnkey yet
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kylewm KevinMarks: the "wordpress" model involves advertising on free accounts too, yeah?
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ShaneHudson kylewm: I've not read it, worth reading?
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ShaneHudson Advertising? I didn't know they did that
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KevinMarks Not necessarily
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kylewm ShaneHudson: better concept than execution, imo. Heinlein was a weirdo
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cuibonobo kylewm: thanks. i'd had a previous discussion on in this channel about how i didn't really think they were that different, and aral felt the need to "clear up the confusion" in a blog post. i just found it funny.
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KevinMarks They do it for free accounts, if you're logged out. I doubt it makes much these days
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cuibonobo kylewm: unique snowflakes in the same snowstorm i think.
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aaronpk did he ever write that blog post?
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kylewm cuibonobo: haha, that is a lovely turn of phrase
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cuibonobo aaronpk: he did
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aaronpk this? https://aralbalkan.com/notes/what-is-the-ind.ie-manifesto/
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aaronpk interesting
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cuibonobo yeah that's the one
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aaronpk "In a nutshell, we reject the Silicon Valley startup culture of venture capital and exits. We see the spyware companies of Google, Facebook, etc. as harmful malware vendors. We reject any form of sponsorship or investment from them."
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aaronpk "The IndieWeb community makes no such claims and tries to work within the system to attempt to change the behaviour of the closed silos and provide tools to give themselves greater control over their own data."
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benwerd It's an important conversation to have, but I reject the notion that investment leads necessarily to bad behavior.
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 1 week, 2 days ago: are you able to make it to Homebrew Website Club meetup on the 24th? http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-09-24-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 1 week, 1 day ago: could you add an indie event and FB POSSE copy for San Francisco to: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-09-24-homebrew-website-club#URLs ?
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Loqi benwerd: npdoty left you a message 1 week, 1 day ago: and erinjo congratulations on the awesome Wired article
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Loqi benwerd: acegiak left you a message on 9/21 at 7:23pm: is my mf2 here weird? http://acegiak.net/2014/09/22/ben-werdmuller-screw-your-tesla-im-getting-a-terrestrial-shrub-rover-httpwww-youtube-comwatchvgtvtdhj6fqo/
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message on 9/25 at 12:19am: I won't be in SF to host 2014-10-08 HWC, could you work with (KevinMarks, benwerd) to host https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-10-08-homebrew-website-club in SF? Thanks! -t
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aaronpk welcome back benwerd :D
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jjuran benwerd: Hi Ben! Missed you last night. :-)
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ShaneHudson I think that is fair, making it clear that it isn't IndieWeb that rejects Google etc
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KevinMarks Cuibonobo: who's "they"? Known or ind.ie?
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benwerd howdy ;)
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kylewm benwerd: Loqi missed you too
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Loqi woot!
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cuibonobo KevinMarks: ind.ie
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jjuran is still in Portland
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ShaneHudson benwerd: Not seen you around in a while! Well done with the launch of the beta :)
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benwerd jjuran: Yeah, it was our last night of http://matter.vc last night, so couldn't make it
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benwerd ShaneHundson: It's been a whirlwind / tornado. And thank you!
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tantek ShaneHudson: haven't heard any more from Matt. Though I do think eventually we want to see more indieweb tech in WordPress core - I don't think we're there yet.
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benwerd That's a fair number of messages
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ShaneHudson tantek: Agreed
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bret benwerd! congrats on the recent success of known! I keep hearing lots of positive things from new users
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benwerd tantek, kevinmarks: I won't be in SF on the 8th either - in Cambridge pre: IWC
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tantek ShaneHudson: also - beware the http://indiewebcamp.com/antipatterns#mass_adoption
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tantek KevinMarks: are you able to organize or host on the 8th? or perhaps kylewm ?
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tantek (HWC in SF on 2014-10-08)
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tantek KevinMarks: re: HWC NYC/Brooklyn - I'll be there on 2014-10-08 if anyone wants to co-organize an indieweb/HWC meetup
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benwerd bret: Thanks! Soooo much stuff to do. Really thought we'd have TLS, proper domain support, etc by now - but it's been never-ending meetings
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tantek preferably in Brooklyn near Brooklyn Beta reunion
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KevinMarks I'm not sure, as Rosie may still be immobile then
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aaronpk ahh the joys of startup land
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tantek how do startups get anything done with all those meetings?
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aaronpk they don't
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aaronpk or they hire people who do
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KevinMarks Tantek: loop in deanna Zandt, and ping aubs
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bret meetings--
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Loqi meetings has -4 karma
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tantek meetings--
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Loqi meetings has -5 karma
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bret benwerd: hang in there!
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aaronpk meetings--
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Loqi dude
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KevinMarks You met deanna at xoxo
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benwerd tantek: I am asking similar questions.
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tantek lol! hoisted by his own bot ;)
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aaronpk doh
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aaronpk gives loqi a tune-up
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Loqi grabs the tune-up
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KevinMarks I remember that. Meetings all day, coding all night. Having to put 2 of me into Microsoft project to make the gantt charts work
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bret benwerd: i dont understand mattervc.... is it just a workshop and then they let you free?
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benwerd bret: 20 weeks of a very intense programme, and then we present in two cities and it's over. It's been incredibly valuable. Seriously the best place we could have brought idno / Known.
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bret do they fund you too?
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benwerd They do design / user research workshops with us, help us intensively user test the product, connect us to people, etc. And yes, they (lightly) fund us.
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tantek wonders about Known's runway.
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benwerd is happy to discuss that away from IRC
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tantek is hopeful.
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bret so rad! super happy known was able to participagte
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bret s/participagte/participate
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Loqi bret meant to say: so rad! super happy known was able to participate
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aaronpk you guys are bringing back memories^H^H^Hnightmares with terms like "runway"
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benwerd Nightmares are definitely a part of my lifestyle mix right now ;)
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aaronpk I do not envy you for a minute ;)
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benwerd tantek: what I will say is that we have lots of customers in the pipeline, including your alma mater
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benwerd Customers being the goal of a business, controversially
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tantek what is a customer?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "customer" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=customer
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tantek what is a business?
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aaronpk ha
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "business" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=business
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tantek :D
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aaronpk well there's http://indiewebcamp.com/business-models
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benwerd Oh, I should add something to that
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@portenkirchner “The Indie Web is the new Zines” by @anomalily http://anomalily.net/the-indie-web-is-the-new-zines/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/515255733227892736)
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KevinMarks_ https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/5375417
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@kevinmarks Before worrying about your business model, get your pleasure model straight (twitter.com/_/status/5375417)
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KevinMarks_ wow, 7 digit tweet urls look odd now
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kylewm how do you pull up these ancient tweets, KevinMarks?
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KevinMarks I downloaded my archive and search it
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@kyle_wm @davidmead Totally agree with that, “legacy” was probably a poor choice of word. I don’t want #indieweb to prop up … https://kylewm.com/reply/2014/09/25/6/totally-agree-with-that-legacy-was (twitter.com/_/status/515257147127386112)
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KevinMarks Though also I remember some of them and they are Googleable by the fragmention principle
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jonnybarnes so I think my micropub client is more compliant with the /Micropub page
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jonnybarnes in particular, an empty Post request with an attached token is given a www-url-form-encoded response like me=domain&scopes=...&client_id=...
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jonnybarnes aaronpk: does Quill do that?
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aaronpk quill will query your micropub endpoint to get a list of syndication endpoints
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aaronpk but I don't think it checks the micropub endpoint for scope info
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aaronpk but that's not a bad idea
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jonnybarnes i got it from reading this section: https://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub#Verification
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aaronpk oh right!
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aaronpk marked as a stub
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aaronpk want to fill it out based on your implementation then?
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jonnybarnes ah, wrong terminology, my micropub endpoint responds to the empty Post request
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jonnybarnes thinking, could a *client* have some kind of check access token link?
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aaronpk if it's just querying then it should be a get request
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aaronpk yeah or clients may periodically test if the access token is still valid
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aaronpk like when the interface is opened for the first time in a while
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jonnybarnes cool, so the verification should actually say "Access tokens can be verified by making an empty GET request to the Micropub endpoint"
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aaronpk yes
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jonnybarnes this does make things simpler
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jonnybarnes before I was having to check if a Post request was empty or not and then respond accordingly
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KevinMarks That's always a good sign, when code gets simpler
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jonnybarnes.uk edited /Micropub (-1) "/* Verification */ change POST to GET" (view diff)
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bret aaronpk: kylewm and i had some confusions over the csv fields
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bret my body parser doesn't return arrays for csv fields, i have perform additional processing on those
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aaronpk this is a pretty serious limitation with the form-encoded format
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aaronpk since there isn't really a way to specify multiple values for a parameter
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bret some of the url encoding libs did some funky things, like return multiple fields suffixed with []
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bret kylewm had a better grasp on it
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aaronpk php handles it by parsing named fields that end in [] into an array
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aaronpk i am not entirely opposed to doing it that way, but it's not part of form encoding per se
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bret yeah I'm not really sure either, other than it seems easier to follow convention? but splitting fields at , isn't that hard either
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aaronpk splitting on , just means you can't have , in the value
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aaronpk which is fine for tags and URLs, but may cause probelms in the future
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tantek what is form-encoded format?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "form-encoded format" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=form-encoded+format
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tantek or heck
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tantek what is form-encoded?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "form-encoded" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=form-encoded
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@JosephRooks @seriouspony @waxpancake I'm much more interested in the kind of things the #indieweb are up to, like @benwerd working on @WithKnown […] (twitter.com/_/status/515262590440968192)
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tantek these sound like limitations we should at least document
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aaronpk ha waxpancake continuing his trend of writing about the limitations of a silo on that particular silo https://ello.co/waxpancake/post/oy73kFfDdhOPh8Jv9z9pFA
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bret node parsers follow the [] convetion as well i belive
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tantek bret, perhaps start /form-encoded and start to capture these bits of understanding?
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tantek all this knowledge about form-encoded appears detached and scattered at the moment in IRC chats
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jonnybarnes so thinking outloud, my client currently, whilst logging in, goes to the token endpoint specified at your domain, and then once it receives a token, stores it in a cookie in your browser, so maybe that cookie could store a last verified timestamp, and when you goto my client it checks said timestamp, if its too old attempt to verify the token by doing the empty get request
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aaronpk yeah!
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aaronpk that's a good post from andy
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jonnybarnes though I dont know what I should do if the endpoint doesn't know how to respond to an empty get request
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aaronpk maybe just assume it's valid? (assuming you're handling errors properly when attempting a POST)
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kylewm aaronpk: bret: unfortunately python's standard library doesn't follow the [] convention
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tantek.com edited /Ello (+202) "/* Criticism */ Unsustainable VC Funding, Ugly Permalink URLs" (view diff)
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jonnybarnes double checks my code to see what my client does when the endpoint errors
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kylewm bret: aaronpk: which is to say, it treats the [] just like any other character, so the field name is "property[]" rather than "property"
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tantek KevinMarks it looks like feedster (.)com finally died and got repurposed as some sort of spam link site?
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bret tantek: good call.... though I'm very new to form-form encoding details as well
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bret kylewm: what does the python do?
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kylewm >>> parse_qs("property[]=abc&property[]=def")
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kylewm {'property[]': ['abc', 'def']}
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bret.io created /form-encoded (+43) "Created page with "{{ stub }} <dfn>Form-Encoded</dfn> is...."" (view diff)
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ShaneHudson My server is no where near ready but I've learned loads today :) Been a while since I felt like I learned a lot in a day, it is a nice feeling :)
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bret I don't even know how to define it right now... at least carefully
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bret.io edited /form-encoded (+236) (view diff)
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bret I don't have time to recreate the tests I was performing the other day
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bret at the moment
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ShaneHudson Does anyone here know a nice way to log into lxc containers externally via ssh without having to change port?
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tantek.com edited /form-encoded (+85) "also webmention" (view diff)
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bret ShaneHudson: are you using docker? maybe there is a docker command for that?
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tantek what is form-encoded?
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Loqi Form-encoded is used with webmention and Micropub for receiving text fields in HTTP POST requests http://indiewebcamp.com/form-encoded
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ShaneHudson bret: Nah lxc, not docker
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tantek.com created /form-encoded_format (+26) "r" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /form-encoded (+749) "/* Issues with Arrays */ add python vs. php code snippets" (view diff)
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kylewm what is application/x-www-form-urlencoded?
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kylewm what is x-www-form-urlencoded?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "x-www-form-urlencoded" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=x-www-form-urlencoded
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kylewm.com created /x-www-form-urlencoded (+26) "Redirected page to [[form-encoded]]" (view diff)
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bret thanks tantek and kylewm
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dietrich tantek: what category here would homebrew fall under do you think? https://www.dropbox.com/s/0tdwzghpif19iro/Screenshot%202014-09-25%2015.55.48.png?dl=0
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tantek dietrich: definitely Community Building
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dietrich tantek: cool, thx
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tantek dietrich - the other thing that's related is "WebMaker" - although that has always seem *very* introductory scoped
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bret one thing we discussed last night was maybe looking for crossover between mozilla web maker projects and indieweb projects
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tantek whereas Homebrew and IndieWeb are more like WebSiteMaker :)
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dietrich yeah
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tantek so how do we transition / graduate WebMaker folks into WebSiteMaker folks?
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tommorris.org edited /diversity (+1) "orientation is the preferred terminology" (view diff)
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bret tantek: I don't fully understand what "webmaker" is yet, but was thinking that some of that introductory stuff could be geared towards people starting their own websites
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bret even its just people starting a static html page with a list of there online profiles
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tantek bret - totally agreed
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jonnybarnes so my client will now check the validity of old tokens when you visit. currently the ux will either display nothing of note, or will state that is can't verify the token
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jonnybarnes I'm currently setting the cut-off point as a month
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jonnybarnes is that reasonable, i.e. if it hasnt been checked in over a month, check
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jonnybarnes if it was last checked less than a month ago assume its still valid
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tommorris.org edited /diversity (+34) "some links + copyedit" (view diff)
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jonnybarnes obv if it isnt then the appropriate error is shown when you click submit
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jonnybarnes aaronpk: I see twitter have tweeted about issues with their api endpoint
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jonnybarnes so maybe thats what messed up your tokens
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@justnathan @withknown Thanks! Liking what I've seen so far; happy to add webmentions to the mix. (twitter.com/_/status/515279482220191745)
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@elfpavlik @aaronpk results 2010-13 + a lot PHP! how about nesting http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#Nested_Microformat_Objects and as:Activity http://jasnell.github.io/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/activitystreams2.html#example-3 ? @evanpro @jasnell (twitter.com/_/status/515282329687040000)
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tommorris.org edited /advocacy (+16) "/* See also */ linking to [[diversity]]" (view diff)
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tommorris.org edited /LinkedIn (+3) "typo" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu can I add horrible font for readability to /Ello ?
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tommorris KartikPrabhu: go for it
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kartikprabhu.com edited /Ello (+127) "/* Criticism */ bad font" (view diff)
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kylewm "what is it?" "not facebook!" "what's it like?" "facebook!"