#indiewebcamp 2014-09-27

2014-09-27 UTC
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KartikPrabhu on Twitte clicking on a photo in a tweet gives an overlay of the photo which is sometimes smaller than the said photo... antipattern ?
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kylewm lightbox-antipattern?
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KartikPrabhu maybe.
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kylewm oh god imagine the twitter backlash
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KartikPrabhu lol
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@caseorganic @nozzlsteve Intense. And also a reminder of how temporary things are on the web. http://Indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/515665927631695873)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/caseorganic/515665927631695873/515667599540367360 linked to http://Indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/caseorganic/515665927631695873/515668633226199040 linked to http://Indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/caseorganic/515665927631695873/515670137593028609 linked to http://Indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/facebook/14305603/10101172174205434/12802152 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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@henri_nourel RT @Jermolene: Peculiarly controversial article from #indieweb about hating databases; personally, I feel similarly about servers - http://… (twitter.com/_/status/515682764168126464)
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djmadeira Is anyone doing anything with digitally signing comments/posts?
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djmadeira like with GPG tools for email
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djmadeira only for the web
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GWG djmadeira: To what end?
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djmadeira as described in this post: https://golem.ph.utexas.edu/~distler/blog/archives/000320.html
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KartikPrabhu djmadeira: there have been a few conversations here about GPG signing webmentions to very the authot
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KartikPrabhu djmadeira: ooo you read Jaques Distler's blogs neat :)
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djmadeira I don’t mean like a standard or anything
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KartikPrabhu what is GPG?
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Loqi OpenPGP (Pretty Good Privacy) is a message exchange format that uses public key cryptography to enable people to exchange encrypted and/or signed data http://indiewebcamp.com/GPG
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djmadeira gpg is a set of tools for using PGP https://gpgtools.org/gpgsuite.html
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KartikPrabhu djmadeira: that link ^ should has some examples ^
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KartikPrabhu djmadeira: Yes, I wanted Loqi to give me the link :)
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djmadeira As an aside, I don’t like microformats; should I suck it up or am I not alone?
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@matro RT @krynsky: Forget Ello. We need to support #indieweb friendly apps that are open source, de-centralized & can be self-hosted like @withkn… (twitter.com/_/status/515700233292886016)
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KartikPrabhu djmadeira: what do you not like about microformats?
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KartikPrabhu and what would you replace them with?
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djmadeira classes as semantic data
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djmadeira Classes have always been about presentation
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KartikPrabhu nope. Classes are HTML not CSS
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KartikPrabhu in fact you can use any attribute to do presentation
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KartikPrabhu but sure go ahead use any replacement you wish. I wouldn't expect people to write a parser to interpret all possible "semantic data" formats
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djmadeira You’re right, the spec doesn’t say what classes are for at all: http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/dom.html#classes
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KartikPrabhu :) I think of classes as saying "this element is of this type" and I can use that info for whatever I want -- styling, scripting, data etc...
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KartikPrabhu in fact the first two are most often used. Microformats just says, ok lets use it for data too.
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djmadeira I can’t think of another attribute that would work better… but it still feels weird. I guess that’ll pass
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KartikPrabhu djmadeira: RDF invented new attributes to do that. But do we really need new attributes of every new application?
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KartikPrabhu I actually use microformat classes to do styling too. so they can be quite multi-purpose
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djmadeira I feel like the volume of options can be paralysing
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djmadeira I know this isn’t how the web works, but I kinda want there to be one thing I can just adhere to and it just works
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KartikPrabhu in my experience from trying out RDF, learning new attributes is harder
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KartikPrabhu djmadeira: I would say go ahead an try out mf2 and play with it. there are a lot of parsers in many language already
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ben_thatmust_ hey guys
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KartikPrabhu hello or should I say ello
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djmadeira lol
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KartikPrabhu djmadeira: do you already have a site? (sorry if I missed this earlier)
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djmadeira djmadeira.com
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djmadeira it’s just a WP site
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djmadeira I like yours, BTW
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KartikPrabhu djmadeira: "just" is not a good word :) you can do a lot with wordpress
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KartikPrabhu thanks :)
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ben_thatmust_ ugh I keep hearing about ello but don't get it. what's special about it?
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KartikPrabhu ben_thatmust_ they don't have advertisements
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ben_thatmust_ not yet
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ben_thatmust_ or is that a core thing
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djmadeira I can’t find their funding model
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KartikPrabhu djmadeira: it isn't on their site. but from what I here, they are planning to have paid-features
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djmadeira at the bottom of this: https://ello.co/wtf/post/why-no-ads
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djmadeira they’ll sell advanced features
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KartikPrabhu aah yes
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djmadeira they have their hipster asthetic tuned just right
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KartikPrabhu djmadeira: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/hipster-blanket-term ;)
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djmadeira haha
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ben_thatmust_ kevinmarks__. I think you convinced me. I'm going to make code to replace the standard way php creates the $_GET array. get rid of that [] IN my micropub client
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KartikPrabhu man! ello made me use that link twice now :P
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@kevinmarks @wjmaggos @JamesGecko @ibogost distributed can still be a monoculture. You want multiple implementations. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/515710311836295169)
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@kevinmarks @tcarmody those of us working on #indieweb have been accused of being the SCA for blogs, but that just reminds me of http://xkcd.com/239/ (twitter.com/_/status/515711174587871233)
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KevinMarks Ben, given that's what checkbox input items and by default, it's worth supporting
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KevinMarks s/and/send/
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Loqi KevinMarks meant to say: Ben, given that's what checkbox input items send by default, it's worth supporting
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@dj_madeira It’s all part of my inexorable crawl toward #indieweb support. One day, not too far away, I won’t be writing content for you, Twitter. (twitter.com/_/status/515728993941999616)
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@lukebrooker Not sure why everyone is so excited about Ello. @withknown is much more interesting. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/515729939312570369)
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@ChrisAldrich My two cents on Ello - @Dave Winer http://scripting.com/2014/09/25/#a1411678207 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/515732794853441536)
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@fdevillamil @dflanegan the problem remains the same: data ownership. Facebook owns what you post there, controls who can see it or not. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/515733113763536898)
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@fdevillamil @dflanegan the issue is not another social network but using them as a hub to broadcast what you publish on your own site. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/515733568484818944)
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KevinMarks__ Does anyone know how to edit Google apps for your domain subdomains? I can add them, but not change them
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks__ according to the first answer here: http://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/1009/how-can-i-setup-google-apps-email-for-a-subdomain it seems you have to use an alias domain ot a new app
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KevinMarks I don't care about email, I want to change what www points to
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KevinMarks I can add feed.unmung.com, I can't change www.unmung.com
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@ChrisAldrich I appreciate the manifesto of Ello, but perhaps @WithKnown does a better job with mechanics and extended philisophy. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/515738898022948865)
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neuro` Morning
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KartikPrabhu morning neuro`
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KartikPrabhu more like night :P
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@gasull RT @kevinmarks: "@virginia: Blogging is so back. I love it." #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/515746291704680449)
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@kevinmarks @aestetix so I need to write a wrapper for @ello to map to #indieweb Standards for @withknown to use? (twitter.com/_/status/515747271153958913)
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neuro` KartikPrabhu: good night then.
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Loqi sweet dreams
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KartikPrabhu :)
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kylewm I am curious what a indieweb <-> pump.io bridge would look like
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@orbific @6loss "The indieweb is still not finished" (twitter.com/_/status/515766177596194817)
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@orbific @miss_scribbler Have you read much about the Indieweb? They're the most exciting thing IMO. Owning your own data. Modern zine-ing (twitter.com/_/status/515787067469873152)
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@border_none .@loicmathaud Yes, if you're interested in decentralisation & the #IndieWeb, #bono14 will be the place to be in Oct! http://bordernone.tollwerk.de/2014/scene-setters (twitter.com/_/status/515789948570857472)
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tommorris.org edited /site-deaths (+244) "/* Upcoming */ Yahoo! Directory goes bye-bye on 2014-12-31" (view diff)
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tommorris.org edited /site-deaths (+3) "/* Upcoming */ moving up" (view diff)
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@rhiaro #WebWeWantFest Anyone want an #indieweb hack corner today? (twitter.com/_/status/515808570622083072)
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ShaneHudson Has anyone ever considered POSSE to indiewebcamp wiki? It looks like there is some form of api that would allow you to post a new revision.. not something I'm planning but could be interesting to see
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neuro` ShaneHudson: that's interesting. After all, when the indiewebcamp wiki closes, we'll lose all our contributions (even more since it's database bakcked)
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@Clausewutz RT @krynsky: Forget Ello.We need to support #indieweb friendly apps that are open source, de-centralized &can be self-hosted like @withknown (twitter.com/_/status/515838225873920000)
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aaronpk_ neuro`: Don't forget there are a number of ways you can maintain a backup copy of the wiki contents
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aaronpk_ http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/backup
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aaronpk_ The only way to truly make sure something lasts is to have multiple copies of it. So the more people who can keep an archive of the wiki and keep it up to date the better
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@johndrinkwater RT @krynsky: Forget Ello. We need to support #indieweb friendly apps that are open source, de-centralized & can be self-hosted like @withkn… (twitter.com/_/status/515853326098116608)
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KartikPrabhu ShaneHudson: I manually POSSE https://kartikprabhu.com/itch to the wiki :)
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ShaneHudson KartikPrabhu: Oh nice, that is exactly what I was thinking about doing. How do you go about it?
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ShaneHudson Oh, manually :)
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KartikPrabhu :P
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ShaneHudson I love your website so much, one of my favourite designs in a long time
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Loqi loves ShaneHudson
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KartikPrabhu :D
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@cybind database-antipattern - IndieWebCamp http://indiewebcamp.com/database-antipattern?utm_content=buffer29aba&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer (twitter.com/_/status/515865712884473857)
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ShaneHudson I want to put a message on that page saying "STOP TWEETING THIS LINK!!!"
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KartikPrabhu neutral tweets are good
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ShaneHudson True, but a link to POSSE or site-deaths or https would be better examples of indieweb
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ShaneHudson (https just because it has so much info)
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jonnybarnes.uk created /Talk:HTTPS (+173) "OCSP stapling?" (view diff)
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jonnybarnes can we edit the output of `~~~~` on the wiki?
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tommorris jonnybarnes: User Preferences.
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kou how do i most efficiently murder my online personae in a distributed reposting environment. USENET killfiles reborn?
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neuro` Just in case some people here still use FeedBurner: if you use https, your feed won't update anymore. One more reason not to use it.
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tico apparently Dave Winer's idea of a good UI is HyperCard http://static.scripting.com/larryKing/images/2014/09/25/twocents.gif
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tico does he use a Mac Plus too. bizarre halftone-dots pattern portends to it
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KartikPrabhu what is hypercard?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "hypercard" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=hypercard
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KartikPrabhu tico: in a distributed reposting environment, you can't "murder" your online persona
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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neuro` tico: Aral wrote something post about Ello too
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neuro` https://aralbalkan.com/notes/ello-goodbye/
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KartikPrabhu VC = selling users is an absurd implication
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jonnybarnes hello fitza
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fitza hello jonnybarnes
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neuro` KartikPrabhu: if your business relies on free users, then selling your business == selling your users. Makes sense to me even though I'm usually more moderated than Aral in my positions
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KartikPrabhu neuro`: even if you sell your business correctly?
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KartikPrabhu "selling" has sinister connotations which are the "paranoid" aspect of that argument
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neuro` KartikPrabhu: I'm not taking Aral's side but I understand his point of view. And I'm upset by the lack of transparency at Ello.
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@martinlindner RT @Clausewutz: RT @krynsky: Forget Ello.We need to support #indieweb friendly apps that are open source, de-centralized &can be self-hoste… (twitter.com/_/status/515890710688841728)
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@sebaso RT @Clausewutz: RT @krynsky: Forget Ello.We need to support #indieweb friendly apps that are open source, de-centralized &can be self-hoste… (twitter.com/_/status/515890768008196096)
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KartikPrabhu that is my point. criticising ello for opacity is fine. but "accusing" them of selling users already is absurdly pre-mature
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neuro` Aral always speak with his heart.
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@mntmn RT @Clausewutz: RT @krynsky: Forget Ello.We need to support #indieweb friendly apps that are open source, de-centralized &can be self-hoste… (twitter.com/_/status/515892808285429762)
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GWG I need someone to bounce a problem off of to try and crystallize it in my mind.
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GWG Anyone about?
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kylewm hi GWG, i can try
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GWG kylewm: I've been trying to streamline my setup and found a duplicative issue
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GWG kylewm: Wordpress has post formats, which are designed for styling. I added a new taxonomy to cover relationships such as reply, like, etc.
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GWG The Link Post Format, and the Kind Bookmark conflict
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GWG I'm trying to figure out what to do about that.
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kylewm Kind Bookmark is in your new taxonomy, and LInk Post Format is in the core wordpress formats?
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GWG Yes.
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GWG But you can enable/disable post formats
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GWG Many people don't use any.
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kylewm well, they aren't necessarily the same intentionally right? link post is like "hey look at this". bookmark is "i want to remember this for later for some reason"
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GWG Kind is the name of the taxonomy, as type was taken.
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GWG Well, the link post is a type of style.
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GWG Well, this leads to my bigger question.
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GWG If I want to post a link to an article with a quick comment, is that a reply?
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GWG My issue with it being a reply is that a reply seems more direct.
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GWG My current thinking is to not offer the link post format type and use the Kinds entirely to the same effect.
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kylewm Yeah I agree that it is not a reply
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kylewm Nor a repost, nor like...
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GWG So, I've been using Bookmark in the way sites like Facebook or Google Plus use Share.
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kylewm have you looked at adactio's links?
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GWG I probably have
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GWG Let me look now
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GWG So, that is the same as how I was going to use Bookmark
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GWG But, this is where I'm confused.
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GWG So, a repost is a complete duplicate of someone else's content.
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GWG A bookmark would be a link to someone's content without duplicating it.
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GWG Then you get to favorite and like
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GWG bangs head against desk
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GWG I'm having a lot of trouble deciding on my nomenclature.
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kylewm yeah that sounds pretty reasonable
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kylewm If you wanted to treat favorites as a curated list and likes as ephemeral, you could, but I don't think anyone does that yet.
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GWG Well, I think acegiak uses one for individual content, and other for concepts. For example, I like oldies vs I like that article.
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kylewm but favorites are not a "post type" on acegiak's site, are they?
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GWG It is getting too confusing if your website needs a glossary
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kylewm heh
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GWG I think it got confusing for acegiak after we started the taxonomy.
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kylewm hehe, and the URL for "favourite things" is http://acegiak.net/likes/
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GWG Because acegiak is the only user of it other than myself.
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GWG That I know of.
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kylewm sorry, I lost the track a little here. what problem are you trying to solve?
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GWG I think I'm not using my terminologies consistently.
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GWG So, I'm having trouble figuring out what each is.
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kylewm between {link, bookmark, like, favorite}?
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GWG Well, basically, if I break it down, I want...
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KartikPrabhu if I might suggest forgetting all of this jargon and just thinking how would you say it to an actual person? "Hey, I like this link..." "Hey, I favourited this link" etc...
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GWG Link/Bookmark - With or without comment.
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GWG Like/Favorite
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GWG Reply
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GWG I think the jargon is confusing the issue, which is why I want to get rid of some of it
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kylewm do it
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kylewm removing code is fun
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david.shanske.com edited /User:David.shanske.com (+212) "/* Current Progress */" (view diff)
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GWG That's the start
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@caranicas If we are all about to migrate social networks can it atleast be to http://withknown.com/ and not Ello? #POSSE #indieWeb #ownYourOwnShit (twitter.com/_/status/515913173098971137)
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bret lol #ownyourshit
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@kevinmarks RT @caranicas: If we are all about to migrate social networks can it atleast be to http://withknown.com/ and not Ello? #POSSE #indieWeb #o… (twitter.com/_/status/515924733896822786)
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@KatCapps RT @caranicas: If we are all about to migrate social networks can it atleast be to http://withknown.com/ and not Ello? #POSSE #indieWeb #o… (twitter.com/_/status/515936684656320513)
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@alanpearceuk RT @caranicas: If we are all about to migrate social networks can it atleast be to http://withknown.com/ and not Ello? #POSSE #indieWeb #o… (twitter.com/_/status/515937397847388161)
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@joshuajuran RT @caranicas: If we are all about to migrate social networks can it atleast be to http://withknown.com/ and not Ello? #POSSE #indieWeb #o… (twitter.com/_/status/515940491301748737)
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@rhiaro Timbl's biggest fear for the Web is centralization #webWeWantFest #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/515944428448792576)
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@JimStevenson RT @rhiaro: Timbl's biggest fear for the Web is centralization #webWeWantFest #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/515944616991133697)
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@kevinmarks RT @rhiaro: Timbl's biggest fear for the Web is centralization #webWeWantFest #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/515963599953858560)
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@deanna @doriantaylor you should def ping @kevinmarks and the #indieweb peeps (twitter.com/_/status/515967832547667968)
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@SherbitApp Say hello to Ello! An ad-free social network? Sign us up! #privacy #ownyourdata http://www.cnet.com/how-to/what-is-ello-the-ad-free-social-network/ https://twitter.com/SherbitApp/status/515974386830946304/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/515974386830946304)
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@awoods RT @krynsky: Forget Ello. We need to support #indieweb friendly apps that are open source, de-centralized & can be self-hosted like @withkn… (twitter.com/_/status/515989164710719489)
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@veganstraightedge @aaronpk @benwerd @erinjo Could y'all post a screenshot of your #indieweb event posting UIs for me to learn from please? (twitter.com/_/status/515994086919008256)
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@aaronpk @veganstraightedge Sure, here you go! Needs some work. :P #indieweb /cc @benwerd @erinjo (http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/09/27/1/event-interface) https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/515995806432636928/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/515995806432636928)
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@timweston RT @caranicas: If we are all about to migrate social networks can it atleast be to http://withknown.com/ and not Ello? #POSSE #indieWeb #o… (twitter.com/_/status/516004887868739584)
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@kevinmarks “my content on my server, to be part of whatever networks I want it to be part of, &… also be on Facebook.” http://scripting.com/2014/09/26/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/516005987648409600)
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