#indiewebcamp 2014-10-03
2014-10-03 UTC
# 
jenmontes.com created /PISS (+1588) "Project overview, straight from the horse's mouth." (view diff)
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# cuibonobo huh
# cuibonobo what is Indie Web Camp?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Indie Web Camp" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Indie+Web+Camp
# tantek #redirect:[[IndieWebCamp]]
# cuibonobo i don't see that page either. does IndieWebCamp just show the main page?
# cuibonobo what is IndieWebCamp?
# Loqi IndieWebCamps are brainstorming and building events where IndieWeb creators gather semi-regularly to meet in person, share ideas, and collaborate on IndieWeb design, UX, & code for their own sites http://indiewebcamp.com/indiewebcamp
# tantek ah. #redirect:[[indiewebcamp]] then
# cuibonobo so strange that it didn't show up in the search!
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# tantek now featuring: KartikPrabhu!
# KartikPrabhu waaaht1?
# KartikPrabhu what am I being featured in?
# jenmontes.com edited /Indie_Web_Camp (+1) "Redirect to the thing rather than to another redirect (??)" (view diff)
# tantek KartikPrabhu: precisely
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# bret evan: vektra sounds rad!
# evan bret: thanks!
# bret I'll check it out when I get home
# bret I run on heroku because correctly setting up a bps was too much work at the time
# bret Vps
# evan yeah
# evan so probably in the next month or so
# evan we'll have `vektra outpost:apply`
# evan which, give some ssh creds, will go into an ubuntu 14.04 instance and install the vektra software on it
# evan so you could easily spin up your own VPS and tell vektra to turn it into a vektra instance
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# bret That would be sick
# bret I have been playing a but with vagrant lately. Having low security vim that I can just spin up and destroy makings learning config management way easier
# bret Bit*
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# GWG Has anyone ever done a multi-author Indieweb site?
# GWG I know I've asked before...
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# GWG But if I own my domain, but want to share it...
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# GWG Maybe I should just syndicate
# KevinMarks Known does that
# KartikPrabhu syndication and multi-author do not sound similar
# GWG KartikPrabhu: I have a second site where I talk tech sometimes
# GWG It isn't a site with my personal thoughts, like my own site
# GWG But I like writing technical discussions sometimes.
# KartikPrabhu that sounds like single author multiple sites
# GWG KartikPrabhu: I always wanted to have other people write there
# GWG I just never found the other people
# KevinMarks Multi author site http://launch.orbit.do
# KartikPrabhu GWG: maybe ask these others to write on their own site and post copies to your tech site
# KartikPrabhu that would be good syndication
# GWG KartikPrabhu: I haven't gotten automatic reposting set. I should.
# GWG KartikPrabhu: Will think about that. But I was thinking multi-author h-card issues
# KartikPrabhu GWG: i don't think there is any issue with multi-author h-cards
# KartikPrabhu rel-me is different
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# KevinMarks You could do subdomains for each author
# KevinMarks Known does profile pages
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# GWG KevinMarks: I think that confuses the issue if the readers don't care about the authors
# GWG You probably read a fair amount of news, do you always remember the byline?
# GWG Or do you say...I read it in the Guardian? The Times? The Chronicle? Etc?
# GWG Admittedly, that is a silo of sorts as well
# GWG Is the ideal multi-author content site an Indiereader?
# GWG I may be overthinking again
# 
@kevinmarks @xxcoeur66xx us though it's very quiet in there. More chatter in #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/517840606836441088)
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# shaners My plans for multi-user in Homesteading land is for me to have my own site and you to have your own site, then to have a subscriber app that slurps both of them and zips them together to create a composite feed.
# shaners benatkin_ You (or actually past you) just fixed a problem for me. Thanks, Past Ben!
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# 
@acegiak Trying to work out how to make a community forum #indieweb compatible. is the answer just accepting webmentions as - http://acegiak.net/2014/10/03/5637/ (twitter.com/_/status/517845311796957184)
# KevinMarks Look at http://launch.orbit.do for multi author in known
# KevinMarks Each post has an author, that are clickable to show all their posts
# GWG KevinMarks: Design is hard
# @acegiak This is an indieweb reply from http://acegiak.net - http://acegiak.net/2014/10/03/5639/ (twitter.com/_/status/517846649012756480)
# shaners aaronpk Has there been any thoughts around site to site micropub in the place of webmention then go back and crawl?
# shaners I haven't thought thru that at all. It just popped into my brain now.
# KartikPrabhu shaners: http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#Micropub_for_Comments
# KartikPrabhu seems like the "trust" thing sort of is an issue here
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# TysonBrooks Hey all... I'm looking for a social network search engine. Wanting to search all social networks for a keyword or keywords. I'd use Google but I don't want to see miscellaneous websites.
# TysonBrooks Does it exist?
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# GWG TysonBrooks: Custom Google Search possibly, but Google doesn't index all of them
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# TysonBrooks I never thought of that. Wonder if it'd turn up anything like "#linux" being the search and show me everything.
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# TysonBrooks Course the other thing I'd like to do is see it in real time.
# acegiak TysonBrooks: yahoo pipes?
# GWG TysonBrooks: It is hard because the companies don't work together
# GWG acegiak: Good day or whatever
# acegiak GWG: morning!
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# xxcoeurxx thanks KevinMarks :)
# Loqi xxcoeurxx: tantek left you a message 1 week, 3 days ago: looksl like http://cyborgcamp.com/ is running WordPress and some IndieWeb plugins! Which plugins in particular? Is the cyborgcamp.com setup documented anywhere?
# Loqi xxcoeurxx: barnabywalters left you a message 1 week, 3 days ago: cyborgcamp.com is looking great, I’d love to see some microformats support e.g. h-entry and h-event! http://shrewdness.waterpigs.co.uk/test/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcyborgcamp.com%2F
# Loqi xxcoeurxx: tantek left you a message 1 week, 2 days ago: - confirming - IndieWebCamp Cambridge is 2014-10-11..12 right? the Sat/Sun *after* CyborgCamp on Friday?
# Loqi xxcoeurxx: tantek left you a message 5 days, 4 hours ago: would you like to create the Lanyrd event for IndieWebCamp Cambridge in October or should I? http://lanyrd.com/search/?context=future&q=IndieWebCamp
# Loqi xxcoeurxx: snarfed left you a message 1 day, 10 hours ago: btw, on the topic of bridgy facebook access expiring, looks like amber's expired too. amber, you can click on the yellow pause icon to reconnect it! https://www.brid.gy/facebook/31600719
# xxcoeurxx hmmm is loqi serving messages to all who newly join?
# GWG acegiak: I've been thinking again, dangerous as that is.
# ben_thatmust xxcoeurxx, he stores any messages you leave for people.. like so
# ben_thatmust !tell bobthesquid hey there
# Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# bobthesquid hey
# acegiak GWG: lol, and?
# bobthesquid Loqi?
# Loqi bobthesquid: ben_thatmust left you a message 17 seconds ago: hey there
# xxcoeurxx ben_thatmust: well. i got a lot of messages from recently and i havent used this name on irc until today
# bobthesquid there we go
# xxcoeurxx sooo i'm a bit confused..
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# GWG acegiak: I'm thinking of reprioritizing trying out a shortcode added front-end note poster.
# acegiak as in increasing it's priority?
# acegiak I think a frontend poster plugin would be cool!
# acegiak does it not already exist? (probable not with support for taxonomies etc?)
# KartikPrabhu xxcoeurxx: are those messages for you though? tantek has been known to leave preemptive messages :P
# xxcoeurxx well i have no idea tbh KartikPrabhu but from tanteks brief stint in #joiito it wouldnt suprise me haha :D
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# GWG acegiak: I want it with the Reply Context and setting up all the things for a note.
# acegiak GWG yeah, fair enough
# acegiak new plugin with dependency on taxonomy
# GWG acegiak: This is what someone was working on at IWC NYC, but I haven't heard from him of late
# GWG acegiak: Exactly
# GWG acegiak: I want something that works for the quick note/reply
# GWG Like something this simple...
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# acegiak anyway, I've got to go post a package
# xxcoeurxx hmm what're we working on? :)
# GWG xxcoeurxx: We who?
# xxcoeurxx well in the channel :)
# GWG xxcoeurxx: It varies. You?
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# xxcoeurxx these days mostly metrics related projects for inhouse use, used to be heavy iron infrastructure buuut..
# GWG What brings you here?
# parzzix Good evening folks
# xxcoeurxx well i asked KevinMarks if #joiito was still populated since i had taken a timeout from all webby things for the past three years, so he suggested i come in here :)
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# GWG xxcoeurxx: What are you looking to do?
# GWG We're a...scratch your itch kind of place
# GWG So I'm told.
# GWG But I'm the pondering type. Sometimes the action type
# xxcoeurxx GWG: well i'm a scratch itches kind of guy so we'll see what i can provide or do :)
# xxcoeurxx i'm more the action type ;)
# xxcoeurxx just dont make me do gifs. after last weeks deadline, im not sure i wasnt traumatized.
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# KevinMarks Mostly this is about setting up your own website and connecting it to others
# KartikPrabhu xxcoeurxx: is levenom.com your site? it gives a 403 right now
# xxcoeurxx KartikPrabhu: yep, and i know, trying to figure out why nginx is misbehaving on openshift >_>
# GWG xxcoeurxx: We all have different ones
# xxcoeurxx KevinMarks: neat :D
# GWG Some overlap
# KartikPrabhu xxcoeurxx: there you go your first indieweb itch ;)
# xxcoeurxx KartikPrabhu: hahaha ;)
# xxcoeurxx the funny thing is that its up and performing nominally for me, but is a hit or miss for everyone else.
# KartikPrabhu strange
# xxcoeurxx which is interesting, since the other site i maintain in openshift, is not misbehaving at all.
# KevinMarks Have you got some origin IP rules?
# shaners What is nginx?
# Loqi Nginx is one of the two commonly used HTTPd server projects (Apache being the other) http://indiewebcamp.com/Nginx
# KartikPrabhu ha! shaners you can tantek eveything :P
# shaners all of the things
# xxcoeurxx KevinMarks none that applies to this usecase.
# GWG For example, acegiak and I both run WordPress, so we often overlap on WordPress needs
# GWG What is WordPress?
# Loqi WordPress is an open source blog software as well as a blog hosting service http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress
# KartikPrabhu xxcoeurxx: does this help http://nginxlibrary.com/403-forbidden-error/ ?
# KartikPrabhu it seems to have a checklist
# xxcoeurxx KartikPrabhu: considering its apache throwing an error..
# KartikPrabhu hmm yeah maybe not then
# xxcoeurxx oh..
# xxcoeurxx i know what it is.
# xxcoeurxx and now that i think i know what it is. i feel like a quagmire.
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# xxcoeurxx this is why you dont have a wildcard in the dns rules.
# xxcoeurxx hmm that wasnt it.
# bret Gwg known has a stream site
# xxcoeurxx aand there's no apache installed in the cartridge.
# KartikPrabhu but its throwing an apache error?
# KartikPrabhu weird
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# kylewm xxcoeurxx: all the messages Loqi gave you had been previously sent to aaronpk and caseorganic; I'm super curious why he sent them to you!
# Loqi is done
# shaners Loqi, what pronoun do you prefer?
# GWG kylewm: xx?
# xxcoeurxx yeah ... kylewm no idea
# GWG kylewm: Wildcard issue?
# indie-visitor facebook is down! aaAAaaAAH!
# kylewm I blame perl
# shaners what is indie-visitor?
# xxcoeurxx mmm perl
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "indie-visitor" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=indie-visitor
# tantek xxcoeurxx: looks like all those messages Loqi relayed to you were meant for caseorganic
# tantek not sure what happened there
# tantek !tell aaronpk it looks like Loqi got nicknames crossed and gave messages to xxcoeurxx that were intended for caseorganic. See http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-10-02#t1412300329621 and on.
# Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# xxcoeurxx tantek: i'm sorry?
# xxcoeurxx :3
# KartikPrabhu thanks indie-visitor for tha
# tantek xxcoeurxx: you didn't do anything wrong - but this is Loqi messing up: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-10-02#t1412300329621
# tantek no idea why - Loqi's never done that before in here
# GWG What is tantek?
# xxcoeurxx well, there's always a first time? :)
# Loqi Tantek Çelik is the co-founder of IndieWebCamp and works on open web standards at Mozilla http://indiewebcamp.com/Tantek
# tantek xxcoeurxx++ for unintentionally tripping up Loqi in a totally new way.
# Loqi xxcoeurxx has 1 karma
# GWG What is aaronpk?
# Loqi Aaron Parecki is the co-founder of IndieWebCamp, currently the CTO of Esri R&D Center, Portland http://indiewebcamp.com/aaronpk
# xxcoeurxx http://myapp-ghosty.rhcloud.com/
# xxcoeurxx that works..
# tantek who is aaronpk?
# Loqi Aaron Parecki is the co-founder of IndieWebCamp, currently the CTO of Esri R&D Center, Portland https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Aaronparecki.com
# GWG Who is your creator?
# xxcoeurxx tantek: haha thanks :D
# tantek who is GWG?
# GWG I don't have a Top Level page?
# GWG Oh, well
# GWG Loqi: Is tantek a bot?
# GWG I keep trying to see what Loqi will say
# tantek GWG I think you're just missing a dfn
# tantek on your User: page
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# KartikPrabhu xxcoeurxx: is that your site on a diff. backend?
# xxcoeurxx KartikPrabhu: its the site on openshift, so its the same backend.
# KartikPrabhu weird... but really like the site. surprised at the speed of the background image load
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# xxcoeurxx i've crunched every png and played around with the optimal size of the images before they pixellate :)
# KartikPrabhu neat! I do love architecture-abstract-ish photos :)
# xxcoeurxx thanks :)
# xxcoeurxx hmm can't find anything about apache middleware for openshift.
# xxcoeurxx odd.
# xxcoeurxx they both also resolve to the same ips.
# GWG tantek: Maybe
# tantek only one way to find out
# xxcoeurxx or not..
# xxcoeurxx there we go
# 
@gsf747 @d6 Here's the pretty darn negative IndieWebCamp response to ello. http://indiewebcamp.com/Ello (twitter.com/_/status/517864523186044928)
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# xxcoeurxx hmmm the exit notes from aral balkan about ello is tainted btw
# shaners xxcoeurxx how do you mean "tainted"?
# xxcoeurxx apparently he's building a competing social network based on the same founding principle.
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# shaners xxcoeurxx which social network is that?
# xxcoeurxx shaners: heartbeat or somesuch, you can read about it on http://ind.ie
# kylewm xxcoeurxx: are you the person he blocked for pointing that out?
# xxcoeurxx yep
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# xxcoeurxx but to be fair, i probably came off as antagonistic since i've been asking uncomfy questions of him for a week :)
# kylewm ahh, context!
# xxcoeurxx haha yes :)
# xxcoeurxx it boils down to this, you can't have freedom[0-4] if you're already walled in.
# xxcoeurxx and well, both myself and ioerror have been asking them questions offline as well
# xxcoeurxx and when jake met up with him he was very nose to nose with him.
# xxcoeurxx omg yes microformats!
# tantek what is freedom?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "freedom" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=freedom
# xxcoeurxx oh, fsf :)
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# KartikPrabhu xxcoeurxx: maybe aral sees Ello not doing a good enough thing for "freedom" but since there are no details about how HeartBeat works it is definitely pre-mature
# xxcoeurxx KartikPrabhu: aiming for osx only for alpha release is kinda icky for a open source, web only project.
# KartikPrabhu xxcoeurxx: is HeartBeat supposed to be web-only... ? not sure how that works with the p2p stuff it talks about
# xxcoeurxx KartikPrabhu: yep
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# KartikPrabhu xxcoeurxx: hmm i did raise this question before: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-10-01#t1412199537860 and seems like no one knows but aral, and I don't want to publically question him...
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# xxcoeurxx KartikPrabhu: yep i asked him about data retention but he handwaved it away
# KartikPrabhu cool.. won't pick that fight then :P
# tantek re: «not doing a good enough thing for "freedom" » there's a canonical answer for that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE
# xxcoeurxx tantek, its not about good enough, it's about being serious with what you're doing and having the technical knowhow to deliver it.
# tantek what is Heartbeat?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Heartbeat" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Heartbeat
# xxcoeurxx there's one developer and three designers doing heartbeat
# tantek KartikPrabhu: feel free to start that stub with your question(s) about it
# KartikPrabhu tantek: you are going to put me in the internet cross-hairs aren't you?
# tantek KartikPrabhu: your questions are perfectly reasonable, might as well capture them. others can add to the page as needed.
# tantek and "internet cross-hairs"? please. announcement-ware can fire silo tweets at best.
# xxcoeurxx haha :)
# tantek and in searching for that expression, first result, which is quite the read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
# tantek « In an article titled "Vaporware" in the November 1983 issue of RELease 1.0, Dyson defined the word as "good ideas incompletely implemented". »
# @kevinmarks @inessential @brentsimmons come chat with us in http://indiewebcamp.com/irc - I bet we can find you something good (twitter.com/_/status/517873716894904320)
# tantek KevinMarks: whoa - an original selfdogfooder: "And I admit that part of my head is still stuck in the ’90s — real bloggers write their own thing. "
# KartikPrabhu there ^ tantek
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# Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/517873716894904320/11628 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc (webmention)
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# xxcoeurxx there we go, added hcard support :D :D
# cuibonobo xxcoeurxx: aral blocked you for this?? (https://twitter.com/xxcoeur66xx/status/517412703061954560)
# 
@xxcoeur66xx no wonder @aral was being nitpicky with ello. ind.ie is launching their own social network. #urgh (twitter.com/_/status/517412703061954560)
# cuibonobo haha wat
# xxcoeurxx yep
# cuibonobo touched a nerve it seems!
# xxcoeurxx there's a lot of offline context missing :)
# cuibonobo ooooh. nice :)
# xxcoeurxx like i mentioned, we'd been asking offline how they were aiming to solve the baseband issue etc with their phone.
# xxcoeurxx and he was going all "but design!" and handwaved it whenever it came up
# KartikPrabhu xxcoeurxx: now you can add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people by using IndieAuth login :)
# xxcoeurxx but.. KartikPrabhu what if im a perfectionist and not happy with my copywriting :3
# cuibonobo xxcoeurxx: yeah man. i used to work for a BIOS company. you wouldn't believe the number of people that called in with grand ideas about their device but had barely a Google search under their belt about how stuff actually worked
# KartikPrabhu xxcoeurxx: I give to you -- “If you look for perfection, you'll never be content.””• Leo Tolstoy, Anna Karenina
# KartikPrabhu ;)
# xxcoeurxx cuibonobo: well.. i know a lot about that. haha. dsdt is fun. >_>
# xxcoeurxx KartikPrabhu: haha touché maestro!
# KartikPrabhu and I'm sure your are bette than me at writing :P
# KartikPrabhu case in point I can't spell "better" ^
# xxcoeurxx sooo how much $BEVERAGE are you looking for? ;)
# xxcoeurxx hmm i'm getting an error at github..
# cuibonobo relevant tweet re: heartbeat: https://twitter.com/aral/status/517369474564239360
# 
@aral In case the initial announcement doesn’t make it clear, Heartbeat & all our platform code will be released under GNU GPL. #freeasinfreedom (twitter.com/_/status/517369474564239360)
# cuibonobo i take issue with the idea that GPL == free as in freedom. copyleft licenses actually depend on the power of copyright to be successful and large corporations are always looking to make copyright even more powerful.
# cuibonobo seems contrary to what ind.ie says to espouse
# xxcoeurxx why doesnt the mail verification thingie support +@ ?
# KartikPrabhu xxcoeurxx: what error did you get with github for indieauth?
# xxcoeurxx KartikPrabhu: i solved it, it had old info in it
# KartikPrabhu aah ok cool :)
# xxcoeurxx but i like to prefix my stuff when it comes to mail.
# xxcoeurxx so robert.renling+h@gmail.com didnt work.
# xxcoeurxx which seems odd, it's been rfc'd for decades.
# gRegor` Yeah, I get annoyed when overzealous email "verification" says my + is invalid
# KartikPrabhu have run into that on other sites too
# xxcoeurxx ug
# xxcoeurxx *ugh
# xxcoeurxx how do i.. mediawiki?
# xxcoeurxx is there a template you guys use? :D
# KartikPrabhu click the link and it will take you to create your page already
# KartikPrabhu and you can copy+pasta from other pages and edit it
# KartikPrabhu here use mine: http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Kartikprabhu.com
# xxcoeurxx on it haha ;)
# www.levenom.com created /User:Levenom.com (+39) "Created page with "[http://www.levenom.com Robert Renling]"" (view diff)
# tantek “If you look for perfection, you'll never be content, you'll only be designy?"
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# xxcoeurxx haha
# xxcoeurxx deliver, deliver, deliver. as i tell mycoworkers.
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# aaronpk_ what I'm really confused
# Loqi aaronpk_: tantek left you a message 2 hours, 28 minutes ago: it looks like Loqi got nicknames crossed and gave messages to xxcoeurxx that were intended for caseorganic. See http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-10-02#t1412300329621 and on.
# aaronpk_ yes that
# GWG About?
# aaronpk_ is what I'm confused about
# aaronpk_ I don't understand how that is possible
# aaronpk_ obviously it is possible, so actually I don't understand why it has never happened before
# KartikPrabhu aaronpk_ first user with 2 double x's in nick ?
# aaronpk_ OH
# aaronpk_ xxcoeurxx: your username is "case"
# KartikPrabhu aaronpk_ hmm it matches the Freenode user name?
# aaronpk_ yeah. that's leftover from when this was originally on a private IRC server where everyone had consistent usernames but different nicks
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# KartikPrabhu mystery solved!
# KartikPrabhu ** if wasn't for you meddling kids **
# aaronpk_ ok that should fix it
# aaronpk_ !tell tantek thanks, looks like Loqi was matching also on IRC username (in addition to nick) and xxcoeurxx had a username of "case"!
# Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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# xxcoeurxx oooh i see
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# Loqi [mention] http://blog.chooch.us/2014/blogging-known-style linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
# Loqi [mention] http://blog.chooch.us/2014/blogging-known-style linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/principles (webmention)
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# cweiske bear, I still get the internal server error during login on indie-stats.com
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# 
@jjmajava RT @krynsky: Forget Ello. We need to support #indieweb friendly apps that are open source, de-centralized & can be self-hosted like @withkn… (twitter.com/_/status/517999971602550786)
# ben_thatmust cswiske, cc: bear Its not just you either, I'm getting the same.
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# ben_thatmust frowns... JS Same Origin Policy can be quite annoying at times
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# ben_thatmust hmm, i think i will have something interesting to show next week at IWC Cambridge
# aaronpk_ that's good news!
# ben_thatmust ended up miles and miles away from where I originally planned, but its good
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# 
@jmsmcfrlnd .@aral @t is indieweb = ind.ie ? Discuss #lazytwitter (twitter.com/_/status/518030412900093953)
# @aral @jmsmcfrlnd @t No :) See https://aralbalkan.com/notes/what-is-the-ind.ie-manifesto/ (Although we <3 the IndieWeb folks, try to support it, & share certain goals.) (twitter.com/_/status/518033006716788736)
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# 
@JRDSkinner Been thinking a lot about #IndieWeb lately. @choochus' recent post, on Known, leaves me tempted. http://blog.chooch.us/2014/blogging-known-style (twitter.com/_/status/518037375067623424)
# @JRDSkinner I've built in some IndieWeb concepts via WordPress plugins, but I worry over privacy complaints when looping FB comments back into the site. (twitter.com/_/status/518037980016300033)
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# @jmsmcfrlnd RT @aral: @jmsmcfrlnd @t No :) See https://aralbalkan.com/notes/what-is-the-ind.ie-manifesto/ (Although we <3 the IndieWeb folks, try to support it, & share certain goals.) (twitter.com/_/status/518041997324460032)
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# 
@aaronpk @JRDSkinner That's a reasonable concern. Right now I only bring back comments from public posts, nothing from private posts. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/518042557058539521)
# @JRDSkinner @aaronpk My FB pages are public, and my back-links point only to the post in question - yet I know folks will find it an #indieweb gray area (twitter.com/_/status/518043445412503554)
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# aaronpk_ my Pebble is now a micropub client
# aaronpk_ and can do stuff like this :D http://aaron.pk/m4YSEcZ
# cuibonobo very cool. all this quantified self stuff is fascinating
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# jonnybarnes Now my site has nice little h-cards in my notes when I know the necessary contact info: https://jonnybarnes.uk/notes/3Y
# aaronpk_ nice!
# aaronpk_ i'm curious how long you'll keep that
# aaronpk_ I used to do it on notes but took it off a long time ago because I didn't like the fact that it meant I was displaying different text than I had written for notes
# aaronpk_ I kept the h-card markup and link to the person's site, but stopped showing the icon and displaying the full name
# jonnybarnes aaronpk_: well, in order for that to appear I a) need the info stored already, and b) need to type @nick where nick is a valid contact nick
# aaronpk_ yes, that's the same with me
# aaronpk_ I left it for articles, just not for notes
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# Loqi [mention] http://davidjohnmead.com/2014/10/03/replies-that-break-the-conversation/ linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
# Loqi [mention] http://davidjohnmead.com/2014/10/03/replies-that-break-the-conversation/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/posse (webmention)
# Loqi [mention] http://davidjohnmead.com/2014/10/03/replies-that-break-the-conversation/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmentions (webmention)
# Loqi [mention] http://davidjohnmead.com/2014/10/03/replies-that-break-the-conversation/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-09-30/line/1412097643269 (webmention)
# Loqi [mention] http://davidjohnmead.com/2014/10/03/replies-that-break-the-conversation/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/context-thread (webmention)
# Loqi [mention] http://davidjohnmead.com/2014/10/03/replies-that-break-the-conversation/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/reply-context (webmention)
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# 
@davidmead Replies that break the conversation: Talking across silos is hard http://davidjohnmead.com/2014/10/03/replies-that-break-the-conversation/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/518055218836029441)
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# GWG Morning
# cuibonobo GWG: good morning!
# GWG What's happening?
# KartikPrabhu does not understand the FB public comments backfeed privacy complaints...
# GWG KartikPrabhu complaints?
# KartikPrabhu GWG: see: https://twitter.com/JRDSkinner/status/518037980016300033
# @JRDSkinner I've built in some IndieWeb concepts via WordPress plugins, but I worry over privacy complaints when looping FB comments back into the site. (twitter.com/_/status/518037980016300033)
# GWG aaronpk, Pebble Micropub?
# GWG KartikPrabhu I don't get it either
# cuibonobo i worry about my friends' feelings in this regard
# KartikPrabhu it is on a public URL so i don't see it
# KartikPrabhu i get the part about backfeeding private posts
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# GWG I approve all comments to my site, including backfeed
# cuibonobo i think it has to do with what "public" means. if a conversation of yours in a public park is then published somewhere, it would create icky feelings
# cuibonobo even though "legally" you would have no standing
# cuibonobo because you made the statements in a "public" place
# KartikPrabhu i don't think the analogy works
# KartikPrabhu if you were recording a conversation while talking to me then I get the analogy
# KartikPrabhu and I knew I was being recorded
# GWG I live in a one party consent state
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# xxcoeurxx tumblr has the strangest community
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# GWG I don't think so far anyone has said anything they'd worry about
# xxcoeurxx *someone follows you* *you follow back* a week goes by *receives email questioning you about who you are, and if they know u irl -- when they live in rural georgia *
# GWG But I do think a disclosure on the site id worth doing
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# KartikPrabhu <shrug>s about disclosures
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# GWG KartikPrabhu, I think I should have an About this Site page
# KartikPrabhu possibly, if you have to make "disclosures" then that is where they'd go
# cuibonobo i don't think think the "content" is the issue, but the "context". saying something in a Facebook context is different from saying something in a comment-on-your-website context.
# cuibonobo again, not really a criticism of anything that anyone is doing. just something i am also personally struggling with
# GWG KartikPrabhu, I'd be doing it for openness, not for legal coverage
# GWG Many people have trouble understanding what I am doing
# KartikPrabhu cuibonobo: again, if the content being replied to is the same, i don't see it.
# KartikPrabhu in fact nothing stops people from backfeeding your comment to the "wrong" post
# cuibonobo yes. which is why i struggle with displaying backfeeds at all. in my current setup i'm capturing backfeeds, but not displaying them. because i'm still not sure.
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# KartikPrabhu cuibonobo: is this only an issue with silos or would you be hesitant to display a comment I made to your post but on my site?
# cuibonobo KartikPrabhu: my issue is with silos specifically. the comments are made in walled gardens and i don't think it matters that a public URL exists or not. 'comment on Facebook' and 'comment on my blog' are different contexts
# KartikPrabhu this is big grey area. Tumblr is a silo-ed blog service
# KartikPrabhu so is Wordpress.com. But in any case, you can make up your own mind about this, I just don't see the diff.
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# ben_thatmust__ Hey guys
# ben_thatmust__ man the chat logs client is so nice
# parzzix hey ben_thatmust__
# kylewm this was interesting https://twitter.com/inessential/status/517871223007870977
# 
@inessential Need New Blog Engine: http://inessential.com/2014/10/02/need_new_blog_engine (twitter.com/_/status/517871223007870977)
# ben_thatmust__ gah itching to get some new stuff done.
# kylewm I think people expect there to be a lot more options than there actually are when you start looking
# ben_thatmust__ indeed kylewm. if more people would launch completed things
# ben_thatmust__ I used to use nano blog.
# ben_thatmust__ vim edit my blog posts. .. oh yeah
# kylewm heh
# ben_thatmust__ no database. .. I know
# kylewm all the suggestions in that thread are Wordpress, Jekyll, or Ghost
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# snarfed re public/private backfeed, permission, etc: http://indiewebcamp.com/backfeed#Discussion
# ben_thatmust__ kylewm politely suggest known
# kylewm Known couldn't import his old posts and preserve permalinks (yet)
# ben_thatmust__ i somewhat regret not taking the time to make openblog easier to install. but i really want to dig in to new features not do support
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# kylewm I wonder how you do onboarding with indieauth
# kylewm need some way to set the domain without authenticating the user the first time
# ben_thatmust__ yeah I was thinking of that. my thought is just the install script requires at least one be input
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# kylewm that is what i would have to do to too
# ben_thatmust__ It's actually a great way to start it off. rather than loading up on a domain and assuming no one knows to visit the uri until after you have set it up. it just edits the page and puts that one link. enough to start use that first indie auth only
# ben_thatmust__ actually scratch that. it would take them two seconds to just set up a Twitter account
# ben_thatmust__ my other thought is just do have rel me links stored in a text file. edit that file before you start
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# ben_thatmust__ is
# kylewm using the web client
# ben_thatmust__ yep. long thing too
# ben_thatmust__ at the dentist office waiting for my wife. This all the text. ... bored
# ben_thatmust__ How many here have micropub edit support?
# kylewm me
# kylewm crap, misread that
# kylewm I do not
# ben_thatmust__ yeah I just added it
# ben_thatmust__ I've started really digging In with micropub. no admin interface at all that way
# snarfed.org edited /backfeed (+656) "/* Discussion */ discussion re private audiences" (view diff)
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# aaronpk_ now I want a tiny map to show up on posts but only for authenticated viewers
# Loqi gives aaronpk_ a tiny map to show up on posts but only for authenticated viewers
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# dlyke aaronpk: On h-card/vcard, is there semantic for home lat/lon vs current lat/lon? Active users on this channel to indiewebcamp.com/irc-people to their h-cards to a map doesn't seem like an impossible task...
# aaronpk_ good question!
# KartikPrabhu looks like microformats are moving towards qualifiers for properties... photo or represetative-photo, home-location vs current-location
# kylewm subject verb predicate?
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# ben_thatmust anyone who can edit via micropub want to test something out?
# davidmead ben_thatmust: i have a know blog that accepts micropub if that helps
# davidmead known
# ben_thatmust does known do edit?
# ben_thatmust on only create?
# davidmead hmm. let me look. i just set up ownyourgram so i know it creates
# ben_thatmust ownyourgram is quite nice, i haven't bothered with any phot support other than that
# ben_thatmust i just wish the instagram app weren't so slow on my phone
# davidmead i don’t see anywhere it specifically says you can edit micropub. doesn’t say you cant either ;-)
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# davidmead ben_thatmust: “Support IndieAuth and Micropub for single-user Known sites” from the site config
# davidmead happy to give it a go
# kylewm Known doesn’t do edit, I’m 99% sure
# kylewm especically because ben_thatmust is basically inventing it right now ;)
# KartikPrabhu in anycase, even if you just go ahead and try it, nothing will break
# aaronpk_ i really need to implement edits now
# davidmead lol kylewm. if ben_thatmust is inventing it how can anyone else test it :-p
# KartikPrabhu davidmead: ben_thatmust has already invented it a little :P
# KartikPrabhu and documented it, not many support edit though micropub on their sites
# ben_thatmust nods sadly
# davidmead i was just pulling kylewm’s leg kartikprabhu :-)
# ben_thatmust its still rough, i have a lot to do still but ben.thatmustbe.me/new?op=edit&url=<permalinkurl>
# aaronpk_ oh nice
# ben_thatmust i'm going to reorganizing things quite a bit, plus trying to recognize the type of entry, etc
# aaronpk_ good luck with my metrics posts :)
# ben_thatmust aaronpk_ yeah.... those will likely not get support, unless you add it
# aaronpk_ :D
# ben_thatmust its all opensource
# davidmead ben_thatmust: a lot of features there. I created a test post and sent it to Known http://davidmead.withknown.com/2014/test. Used that URL in the edit screen and it created a new post http://davidmead.withknown.com/2014/this-is-me-editing-it without toughing the original
# ben_thatmust yeah, without edit support, thats what will happen
# davidmead I guess I expected your page to pull in the content from the entry when I entered the permalink
# davidmead that obviously didn’t happen :-)
# ben_thatmust problem with that is that it would have to use JS, which won't work across domains unless your site specifically allows it
# aaronpk_ it does pull in the content
# ben_thatmust JS has a Same Origin Policy
# aaronpk_ I see "test" in the body
# ben_thatmust aaronpk_ he's saying if you don't use the GET val
# ben_thatmust just enter it manually on the page, and it can't do JS to pull the content
# aaronpk_ you can just make a server-side thing on your end that fetches the content
# ben_thatmust actually, i guess i could do a call back on my own page, and just curl via php
# ben_thatmust yeah
# ben_thatmust i had hoped to use JS, offload the data pull
# davidmead aaronpk because i’d expect to see the content of the permalink I enter on Ben’s page, so I can edit it, rather than just replace it wholesale.
# aaronpk_ davidmead: if you click that link I pasted a few lines ago you see your content that's at your URL like you'd expect
# davidmead missed that aaronpk. sorry. yeah that’s what i’d expect as a user
# ben_thatmust what gets nice, is drafts/articles
# ben_thatmust i can pull in my articles and edit from there
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# aaronpk_ oh wow, with the html editor too!
# davidmead nice
# aaronpk_ ha if I click submit it'll post that article on my site!
# GWG I'm intrigued when I delurk and see Oh wow
# GWG Better read up
# ben_thatmust you could have anyway. haha
# Loqi rofl
# ben_thatmust i just made it easier
# aaronpk_ kind of like a "reblog"
# ben_thatmust nods, would be cool to implement my MP endpoint to say if it gets a url= in a MP submission, then its a reblog and here is the original URL
# aaronpk_ if the URL is not on your own site then it's a reblog
# ben_thatmust exactly
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# KartikPrabhu or is it a "like" ?
# aaronpk_ it's a reblog if the contents of the article are there
# KartikPrabhu what prevents you from changing the contents and calling it a reblog?
# aaronpk_ nothing
# KartikPrabhu ok
# aaronpk_ only silos can do that
# ben_thatmust like uses like= for url
# ben_thatmust not url=
# KartikPrabhu then just use repost= instead of full contents and all that
# aaronpk_ I don't think we were actually trying to figure out how to do reblog
# ben_thatmust correct, i more questioned what you do in cases that fall between the standards, like when url=<something not on your site>
# ben_thatmust personally my code would discard, since i fails to look up the entry in my internal system
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# gRegor` Nice posting interface, ben_thatmustbeme
# gRegor` I don't know much about micropub, but should the form return something other than 200 if you POST to it and you're not authenticated?
# ben_thatmust thanks, i'm working on it still
# aaronpk_ the problem with non-200 responses is browsers sometimes freak out
# ben_thatmust you can post to it without auth?
# ben_thatmust oh, 'enter to post' would still work, duh
# gRegor` Well, I'm not sure if it posted or not, but I entered (benign) XSS out of curiosity and hit enter :)
# gRegor` I also tried a http://hurl.it post out of curiosity.
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# gRegor` Maybe 401 Unauthorized? What do you mean browsers freak out, aaronpk_?
# aaronpk_ chrome shows a blank grey page on 400 for example
# aaronpk_ so just need to be careful to send browser-appropriate status codes rather than what you might do if you're trying to follow REST
# gRegor` Does Chrome do that even if the server specifies a page to deliver for 400?
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# ben_thatmust hmm, if a form field is turned off in JS by display:none does it still post data in it?
# rascul probably does i think
# rascul do you mean css and not js?
# ben_thatmust well, css, but cause by js, so yeah
# cuibonobo linkedin is now disclosing some interesting information when you request your data: http://help.linkedin.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/50191/
# cuibonobo of note: "mobile apps you've installed", "ads you clicked on", "targeting criteria LinkedIn uses to show you ads"
# cuibonobo though i presume that what they make available isn't a complete data set because there's also a link to a Data Consent form if you'd like to see more
# ben_thatmust nevermind, it doesn't good
# KartikPrabhu ben_thatmust: you want it to not send data?
# KartikPrabhu then why put the form field in the first place?
# gRegor` He has an all-in-one form
# KartikPrabhu hmm
# gRegor` selectively display/hide elements.
# rascul this scares me just a little bit https://github.com/guardianproject/libsqlfs
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# ben_thatmust well, not yet gRegor` or rather, i do, but i'm inverting it now so all create fields are one form, all edit are one form, all deletes are one form
# ben_thatmust make it easier to select type
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# aaronpk_ rascul: that's like the opposite of what I want
# aaronpk_ I want to make a thing that stores data in flat files and can be queried like SQL
# rascul mysql can store in csv
# aaronpk_ it's not the same
# bret TXQL
# petermolnar what is txql?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "txql" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=txql
# bret ( i just made it up )
# bret (but things like that exists in various forms)
# petermolnar sqlite v1?
# cuibonobo aaronpk_: this seems like what you want, but it hasn't been updated since 2008: http://www.fsql.org/
# aaronpk_ wow
# rascul repo has been updated in 2010 http://sourceforge.net/p/fsql/code/HEAD/tree/
# aaronpk_ my data looks like this, I want a query interface on top of it http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2014/06/01/1/long-term-archiving-of-gps-logs##Individual+rows+of+GeoJSON+Features
# Loqi gives aaronpk_ a query interface on top of it http
# KevinMarks What is grep
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "grep" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=grep
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# gRegor` ben_thatmust: Makes sense.
# gRegor` Texas Query Language
# gRegor` Every query is bigger in TXQL
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# dlyke SQL against CSV? https://github.com/dinedal/textql
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# tantek good afternoon #indiewebcamp!
# Loqi tantek: aaronpk_ left you a message on 10/2 at 10:02pm: thanks, looks like Loqi was matching also on IRC username (in addition to nick) and xxcoeurxx had a username of "case"!
# tantek whoa
# aaronpk_ yep
# aaronpk_ leftover from when Loqi was on my private IRC server and we actually cared about usernames
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# tantek the fact that there's a difference between usernames and nicknames in IRC is - I just don't even know where to start
# aaronpk_ it's weird that username is almost entirely invisible
# gRegor` Howdy, tantek
# sparverius i was under the impression that it was designed so that you could be authed as username and then choose different nicks per channel
# aaronpk_ nick is set per connection
# sparverius but uh, it hasn't been like that for over a decade
# gRegor` You can have multiple nicks associated with your nickserv username, though
# aaronpk_ but it would let you auth as the same username and have multiple nicks
# aaronpk_ well nickserv is kind of a bolted-on attempt at adding real auth to IRC anyway
# 
@ThoughtStreams_ “Webmention Abuse” by @joeld https://thoughtstreams.io/joeld/webmention-abuse/ (twitter.com/_/status/518161340272496640)
# tantek heh
# ben_thatmust hey tantek
# dlyke @joeld++
# tantek dlyke, has he experienced abuse, or is this predictive chicken-littling? tl;dr?
# dlyke He's anticipating.
# aaronpk_ props to him for having actually implemented webmention on his site tho!
# dlyke But also participating in implementing stuff.
# tantek ah, that's a very reasonable combination. implementation + anticipation / heads-up.
# gRegor` First (I know of) to implement email notification for webmentions
# aaronpk_ "At a minimum I'll be trying to design and code ways of mitigating abuse before it happens on my own web properties, now that I've opened that door."
# aaronpk_ pretty sure Known sends email notification of webmentions?
# dlyke Yeah, it looks like the same thought process that got me: "I'm going to put this in my site... oh, look, this is exactly like what I did a decade ago, only the names are changed... uh, okay, we'll leave it enabled for now but..."
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# gRegor` I thought it was an earlier version of his throughtstreams page that triggered all our recent discussion about vouch, etc.
# dlyke gRegor` Either that, or my incessant whining about the topic.
# tantek nope. have been thinking about the 3rd parameter for quite some time.
# gRegor` Hehe. I wouldn't call it whining. :) But you're right, his post did come after you'd raised the DDoS concerns.
# aaronpk_ I still maintain that separation of spam prevention and the actual webmention protocol is what has led to us making this much progress so far
# aaronpk_ otherwise we'd still be debating signed requests vs web-of-trust and other junk
# tantek aaronpk, agreed, and hence why vouch is an extension
# tantek is still catching up on logs.
# dlyke Yeah, for all my reticence on this, I like the "build something broken so we have something to fix" approach.
# dlyke I'm just concerned that, like the previous attempts, we'll abandon it rather than fix it.
# tantek !tell KartikPrabhu re: "looks like microformats are moving towards qualifiers for properties" - nope, no such general rule or pattern AFAIK. All one-by-one based on documented use-cases.
# Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# aaronpk_ dlyke: I think we've demonstrated enough value that the chance of abandoning it is small
# tantek dlyke - "we'll abandon it rather than fix it." - I think that's not a reasonable comparison, because I've already proposed (brainstormed) "vouch" whereas no such effort occured in previous attempts (Pingback etc.)
# aaronpk_ as opposed to the relative value of displaying pingbacks, which was low because there was very little innovation or even attempt at such
# tantek Pingback was never evolved
# tantek Pingback display value was *negative* it added *noise* to a page.
# aaronpk_ good point, it actually detracted from the page
# dlyke I think the value in RSVPs is what could give it enough legs to succeed... Speaking of which, I both need to expose it in more than metadata on Flutterby.com, and implement the outbound version on Flutterby.net
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# tantek did "edit" get specified for micropub?
# tantek what is a reblog?
# Loqi A repost on the indieweb is a post that is purely a 100% re-publication of another post. The act of reposting is an umbrella term that covers the general practice of republishing another post typically on the same service or silo, but more and more across sites http://indiewebcamp.com/reblog
# tantek :)
# bret for me, implementing an edit function is critical for actually storing reply context
# bret and incoming replies
# aaronpk_ why are they related?
# aaronpk_ edit hasn't been important to me until just now, because I can publish a placeholder food/drink post from my watch and need to edit it later
# bret me? because I was planning on storing them in yaml
# bret limitation of jekyll
# aaronpk_ what does editing your original post have to do with reply context and comments?
# bret the best way to associate data to a post, is to keep in in the front matter
# bret aaronpk_: editing the same file
# bret Unless I create some kind of mapping between the post and external files
# ben_thatmust i'm dedicated to having no admin interface, or at least very minimal
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# ben_thatmust and do everything through MP
# kylewm would associating separate files be difficult, bret?
# aaronpk_ ben_thatmust: I'm thinking something along the same lines
# tantek I like this line of reasoning.
# ben_thatmust i'm going to try to clean up my MP client and put it out in its own repo, so anyone can easily add it in
# ben_thatmust was going to wait until IWC to show it off, but ... meh
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# tantek caught up. good times.
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# bret kylewm: i dunno, have to play around with it. seems fragile
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# kylewm for some reason editing the original post to add comments bugs me
# tantek kylewm - user edit action vs. micropub edit op?
# bret as long as there is a single writer queue, and I use git as a transaction mechanism, risk of losing data is low right?
# bret >:D
# tantek quick, anyone know if any of the responses to https://twitter.com/inessential/status/517871223007870977 were actually posted by people on their own sites using the tool they recommend? or are all they tweeting but not doing?
# @inessential Need New Blog Engine: http://inessential.com/2014/10/02/need_new_blog_engine (twitter.com/_/status/517871223007870977)
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# tantek seriously - ALL of the replies are people suggesting tools that they themselves did not use to post those replies.
# aaronpk_ not to mention most of the replies don't actually take into consideration the requirements he lays out
# aaronpk_ most people just replied with their favorite new tool they heard about
# tantek rather, all the replies with specific tool suggestion(s) - were not made with those specific tool(s). selfdogfoodfail
# tantek is that worth pointing out? I'm leaning no.
# tantek benwerd - speaking about replies to https://twitter.com/inessential/status/517871223007870977
# @inessential Need New Blog Engine: http://inessential.com/2014/10/02/need_new_blog_engine (twitter.com/_/status/517871223007870977)
# aaronpk_ this is an example of when it would be useful to have permashortlinks on tweets
# tantek aaronpk, most people just replied *talking about* their favorite new tool they heard about, not "with" as in "using" ;)
# aaronpk_ er right, I meant "with" as in "talking"
# aaronpk_ :D
# tantek hence why I disambiguated :)
# tantek even KevinMarks's reply (where he didn't recommend a specific tool at least) is a sharecropped tweet, instead of being sent from known.kevinmarks.com (yes I checked) https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/517873716894904320
# @kevinmarks @inessential @brentsimmons come chat with us in http://indiewebcamp.com/irc - I bet we can find you something good (twitter.com/_/status/517873716894904320)
# dlyke tantek, I never bothered to put reply into my Facebook/Twitter interface because it's more crap to do for something that has relatively low value. If I write something large enough to warrant saving, copy and paste to put it into Facebook is totally reasonable.
# dlyke Similarly, if I get a good reply, I'll copy it out, but I really don't need every bit of attaboys archived for eternity.
# dlyke All of which is a "I don't find it surprising that nobody's doing that, because social media management (vs one way posting) seems like a different problem"
# dlyke Maybe that's where I'm seeing it wrong, but I got sick of "whoops, we're gonna deprecate RSS now" and figured that keeping up with the changing APIs there is a no-win game.
# tantek dlyke I'm split between Twitter and FB. On Twitter, all my replies originate at tantek.com and have permalinks I own. Just that restructuring of user flow has made me much more thoughtful (and picky) about my replies.
# dlyke (And also noticing: Not only did I not "/nick danlyke" on my work machine, none of my replies here are coming from a tool I own...)
# tantek whereas on FB, nearly all my replies are made on non-public posts, which a) I haven't figure out how to do that from my own site (Falcon doesn't do any non-public posts), and b) I don't think Bridgy Publish supports POSSEing replies to non-public FB posts.
# aaronpk_ just realized now that this channel has a web interface for chatting, it's not out of the realm of possibility of POSSEing IRC messages from my site to here
# gRegor` Hah
# tantek aaronpk yes! now if only one of our posting UIs was as seamless, quick, and responsive as *any* IRC client.
# aaronpk_ the #indiewebcamp web interface is close!
# tantek why is the irc/today?beta#bottom web interface better than the posting UI of any of our own sites? how do you explain that? ;)
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# aaronpk_ the requirements are lower? (plain text only?)
# tantek in fact, more than that!
# danlyke Yeah, when I first set up Flutterby.net, I used Emacs and files stored in a git repo, because Emacs has wiki mode... Eventually I cobbled together web UI, which is awful and kludgey. Now I primarily use the web UI. ugh.
# tantek irc/today?beta#bottom is an *integrated* reading/publishing UI!
# tantek and NONE of us do that at all!
# tantek so that's a reasonable challenge - who will be the first to have an integrated reading/publishing UI - at least for notes/replies - *as good as* and *as simple as* /irc/today?beta#bottom ?
# aaronpk_ I bet it's not going to be me
# tantek particularly ironic for you aaronpk since you built it!
# cuibonobo but i don't think there are many indieweb readers at the moment
# tantek cuibonobo: why phrase it as a negative?
# tantek how many indieweb readers are there?
# tantek running on how many indieweb sites?
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# danlyke Huh. "indieweb readers" as a software tool. Is there a tool for that yet that'll replace my What does that mean aside from RSS aggregator?
# cuibonobo ok. my point was, an integrated reply UI makes the most sense on a reader
# danlyke s/What does that mean side from//
# aaronpk_ do you think of twitter.com or facebook.com as a reader?
# danlyke yep.
# emmak i've been using an integrated reader on my site
# cuibonobo yes.
# tantek danlyke - haha - lol at framing a *user* tool in terms of *plumbing*
# aaronpk_ emmak: sweet! got any screenshots? would love to see that
# tantek emmak++
# Loqi emmak has 6 karma
# tantek what is a reader?
# Loqi A reader (or indie reader) in the context of the indieweb is the portion/feature integrated into an indieweb site that provides a way to read content from other indieweb sites, possibly including posts from the current site as well http://indiewebcamp.com/reader
# cuibonobo in the context of facebook and twitter, your 'site' is your profile page, while the feed is your reader
# emmak no screenshots but you can see the actual feed
# danlyke Well, the big challenge with Facebook and Twitter is blocking people for particular subject matter. Not so much of a problem on blogs, not so many sports fans there, but why doesn't the reader tool put together the participants in the conversation?
# danlyke Kind of the way Twitter does for @replies.
# emmak when logged in, it shows reply/like/repost buttons under the posts
# tantek danlyke - plenty of indieweb sites with their own readers: http://indiewebcamp.com/reader#IndieWeb_examples
# tantek cuibonobo - I didn't say integrated *reply* UI - that's far too limiting
# tantek I said integrated reading/publishing UI - quite deliberately.
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# danlyke Huh. Have to see if any of those'll lure me away from RSSyl.
# tantek emmak - add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/reader#IndieWeb_examples !
# tantek danlyke - the other one to check out in particular is shrewdness
# tantek it's kind of amazing
# tantek what is shrewdness?
# Loqi Shrewdness is a micropub-enabled reader web app, currently being developed by Barnaby Walters http://indiewebcamp.com/Shrewdness
# danlyke tantek huh, that looks interesting enough to git clone and try to install... I've been looking for an RSS reader to hack on...
# bret you can use barnaby's install to test it out
# tantek danlyke - every time he's demo'd it it has been mind blowing. and he just keeps cranking out amazing features.
# tantek it's basically a kickbutt indieweb tweet-deck like reading UI. pretty much blows away all the old crappy email-program-UI like feed readers out there.
# tantek *plus* has the ability to inline reply if your site supports micropub
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# bret what is the url for it again?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "the url for it again" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=the+url+for+it+again
# aaronpk_ ha there's a little "MP" badge next to my URL in the top right, presumably because my site supports micropub!
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# bret oh wait just psoted that
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# kylewm.com edited /reader (+18) "/* Andy Sylvester */ fix link to point to Andy's site rather than caseorganic.com, presumably copy/paste oversight" (view diff)
# kylewm danlyke: be warned that Shrewdness doesn’t do RSS/Atom (without http://feed.unmung.com/ at least)
# tantek who is around SF next week? kylewm? danlyke? iboxifoo? looking for a host for HWC 2014-10-08!
# tantek kylewm - I'm expecting that barnabywalters will make that seamless pretty soon - that is, if you enter a site without any h-feed / h-entry markup, it can try doing feed file discovery and then sending that through unmung
# tantek but I believe you are correct - currently, subscribing to legacy RSS/Atom requires an extra step of going to feed.unmung.com
# danlyke tantek, I'm out on the 8th (going to an event at Chimera in Sebastopol)
# kylewm tantek: I will be in town but I don’t really have any way to host people
# tantek kylewm - can always do it Chicago style - pick a coffee shop / cafe where you think you can grab a table for a few folks.
# tantek but wow on everyone being out of town from SF or otherwise busy/pre-occupied!
# ben_thatmust there we go, swapped it around
# tantek might be the first time we've had no-one to host HWC SF since the start!
# ben_thatmust but i realized its not possible to know article or note based on the markup is it?
# tantek it's possible in some instances
# tantek in typical instances even
# tantek e.g.
# tantek has title/heading? -> article
# kylewm could definitely do Chicago style, deepdish HWC
# tantek that's a good 99% use-cases trick
# KevinMarks__ ello umnunger now supports image posts too - is the markup right? http://feed.unmung.com/ello?ello=rstevens
# tantek kylewm++
# Loqi kylewm has 63 karma
# ben_thatmust true,
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# ben_thatmust thats my next step though, auto recognizing the type
# tantek KevinMarks is quickly building another awesome proxy service like Bridgy!
# KevinMarks__ not sure about quickly
# tantek heck, if unmung didn't exist, we could have feature-requested "Bridgy Feed" as a counterpart to "Bridgy Publish"
# KevinMarks__ I am goign to have to change tactics with ello thought o parsing their html I think
# tantek KevinMarks++ - the h-feed view of that ello is so much nicer
# Loqi KevinMarks has 62 karma
# tantek and yes the markup LGTM for photo posts and note posts
# gRegor` perks. Did somebody say deepdish?
# tantek gRegor`++
# tantek still not fixed?
# tantek gRegor++
# Loqi gRegor has 6 karma
# KevinMarks__ I should make the dates more human-firendly
# Loqi it is probable
# tantek KevinMarks: drop the T
# KevinMarks__ hm, shrewdness forgot my subscriptions
# tantek aw
# tantek however, this is so good: http://www.dieselsweeties.com/archive/3652
# tantek that's getting embedded
# gRegor` Ha!
# gRegor` Is it worth noting Ello downtime since it's so young?
# tantek has there been any?
# gRegor` Right now, for me.
# gRegor` I have the page up still for a screenshot
# tantek did you try downforme...
# tantek sure take a screenshot if it's an interesting down page and not just browser default
# gRegor` It's custom
# tantek how long was it down for (approx?)
# KevinMarks__ weird bug - I had some browser pages minimized, and I installed the Mac OS update
# gRegor` hoo boy, opened another tab and got "Heroku no such app"
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# KevinMarks__ it reopened them non-minimized, with the minimize button disabled
# tantek clearly from the implications in that comic, we should consider the use-cases of a) explicitly notifying someone that you're following them (their site), and thus b) figuring out how to send a webmention to a homepage of someone you're following, with the source being some sort of "hey I'm following you" type post.
# tantek gRegor`: yes, document == Downtime == - with screenshots
# tantek and perhaps even == Plumbing == with apparently Heroku
# tantek people presumably like being notified that their profile/site/posts are being followed / read?
# KevinMarks__ Scoble said they were running on a single postgres instance and maxed it out
# KevinMarks__ up to a point, tantek
# tantek and people presumably are ok with a silo sending such notifications on their behalf when they do follow someone
# tantek KevinMarks - could you expand upon "up to a point"? details? citation? or is it a celebrity scaling problem kind of thing?
# gRegor` screencaps and wikis
# KevinMarks__ see https://twitter.com/freebsdgirl/status/518146125036290048
# 
@freebsdgirl Once again, not checking notifications. Using web, not client. Too many notifications. Will check later. (twitter.com/_/status/518146125036290048)
# KevinMarks__ also an inadvertent fame thing
# KevinMarks__ Randi mentione GamerGate abuse and got DDoS'd with it
# gRegor` Heh, well the Heroku thing was an odd typo by me. Extra period after ello.co.
# gRegor` I've been following that, KevinMarks__. Rather funny/sad
# gRegor` She seems to be handling the trolls well.
# tantek KevinMarks - you're talking about being over-notified *in general* - which I agree is a problem.
# tantek I gave a very specific use-case
# tantek which I worded somewhat ambiguously I now see
# tantek retry: people presumably like being notified that their profile/site is being followed / read?
# tantek good tweet cite of too many notifications though
# tantek that's worthy capturing
# tantek what is a notification?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "notification" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=notification
# tantek wat
# gRegor` Hah
# tantek "However, there is 1 page linking to /notification and 4 that link to /notifications! You should create /notification and make /notifications redirect to it."
# tantek ok thanks pretend Loqi
# Loqi you're welcome