#indiewebcamp 2014-10-04

2014-10-04 UTC
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tantek.com moved /notifications to /notification
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kylewm very confused about why ello.co. would go to a heroku error page
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gregorlove.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:ello-downtime-2014-10-03.jpg]]""
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kylewm ohh http://iamshane.com./ does the same
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gregorlove.com edited /Ello (+15) "/* Errors and Downtime */ signing" (view diff)
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gRegor` Interesting, kylewm
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gregorlove.com edited /Ello (+214) "/* API */ Plumbing: Heroku" (view diff)
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KevinMarks__ same thing happens with http://www.noterlive.com. - I think it means DNS and heroku disagree about routing
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KevinMarks__ trailing . doesn't match their "which app should be served here" thing
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tantek.com edited /notification (+1462) "Beware of Too Many Notifications alarm fatigue" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /webmention (+46) "linky, interactions" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /comment (+8) "notification" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /homepage (+4) "linky" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /indieweb-messaging (+23) "notificatino" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /mention-app (+61) "dfn, linky linky" (view diff)
krendil, gr0k_, gr0k, aaronpk_, adactio, cuibonobo, chrissaad, benwerd, KartikPrabhu, shaners, scor, erlehmann_, ben_thatmust_, a, a___, j12t, behind_you, tommyfun and KevinMarks_ joined the channel
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tommyfun what’s up cambridge?
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KartikPrabhu tommyfun: isn't that next week
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tommyfun yeah, it is
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: tantek left you a message 5 hours, 35 minutes ago: re: "looks like microformats are moving towards qualifiers for properties" - nope, no such general rule or pattern AFAIK. All one-by-one based on documented use-cases.
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KartikPrabhu got it
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KartikPrabhu tommyfun: are you attending?
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tommyfun I think so
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tommyfun on the 8th
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KartikPrabhu neat! do have a website already or looking to get one?
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tommyfun I do, yes
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tommyfun it’s funny cuz static is the new dynamic
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tommyfun I’m curious of the tools that are current
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tommyfun I’ve been using octopress and I like it
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KartikPrabhu good good. stick with what works for you and welcome to indiewebcamp :)
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tommyfun thanks
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KevinMarks Random idea: half the tutorials for rails/meteor/node whatever are "make your own blog" ones. We should send them pull requests so that the blogs have mf2 markup
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks so unwitting begineers have default mf2?
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KevinMarks So the learning generation see it as part of making a page
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KartikPrabhu tommyfun: to get a kick start (if you feel like it) have you seen http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: seems like a nice idea. I mean that's why most Wordpess themes have mf1 anyway
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KartikPrabhu tommyfun: out of curiosity what is your URL?
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KevinMarks Hm. Thinking about rails/Django etc, dumping out the fields into the html as p-whatever would also be a good pattern to bake in
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tommyfun it’s http://thomasmullaly.com
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tommyfun it’s just a octopress site
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KartikPrabhu tommyfun: "just" is a funny word ;) mostly "just" is pretty non-trivial
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tommyfun true
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KevinMarks How many times do I answer "maybe" to your ask recursively program before it runs out of stack?
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KartikPrabhu nice you already post quite a bit, and have github G+ links maybe you could add some rel-me markup to those so you can log in to the wiki and edit it :)
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KartikPrabhu tommyfun: see: http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started#Set_up_your_home_page_and_web_sign-in for more
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tommyfun do you think markup should be standardized?
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KartikPrabhu tommyfun: some of it should be particulary metadata stuff like mf2 things
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ben_thatmust ouch, $20 shipping just to get these bus cards here for IWC
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ben_thatmust i just wanted something fun, but damn, seems like a waste since everyone can find me on here
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ben_thatmust maybe i'll just order more of them and have them shipped later... damn, i just spent all that time making an h-card Business Card though
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KartikPrabhu oh no you revealed your secret plan :P
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ben_thatmust indeed
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ben_thatmust now i'll have to kill you all
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ben_thatmust what do you think though? should I bother? or am i just being rediculous?
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ben_thatmust hey ben
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ben_thatmust fellow ben
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tommyfun biz cards?
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ben_thatmust yeah, i need new ones, so i decided to have fun with it
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tommyfun just generate 2d bar codes
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ben_thatmust oh i threw a qrcode on there too, for good measure
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ben_thatmust problem was i looked at moo.com, which i know is overpriced, but man they are pretty
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KartikPrabhu here is a good b-card statement: me@kartikprabhu.com ;) name+domain+email all in one :P
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KartikPrabhu just need that
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KartikPrabhu use a god font and print yourself :P
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KartikPrabhu good*
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ben_thatmust GOD FONT!
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KartikPrabhu yes! it is invisible unless you believe in it like Comic Sans ;)
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ben_thatmust haha, I have some like that, but not really the best quality
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ben_thatmust HAHAHA, i went to preview it, and it actually rendered the HTML in their preview, so all i see no tags
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ben_thatmust oh the hell, Its not work the money, but now i have some ideas for the next print i do
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KartikPrabhu ben_thatmust: try some stock paper and your local printer, you'd be surprised at what can be done :)
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KartikPrabhu hello adactio how's SF treating you?
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adactio KartikPrabhu: very well—getting all set for a weekend of hacking at Science Hack Day.
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ben_thatmust i have, i need to try thicker stock. I make just opt for the perforated stock just have to line it up right
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KartikPrabhu adactio: nice! excelsior!
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tommyfun whoa, you’re going to github’s new hq
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KartikPrabhu tommyfun: regarding markup standardisation: mf2 follows something more like a consensus-based documentation approach
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tommyfun yeah
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KartikPrabhu you use some mf2 markup and document it and if it is useful more people use it
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KartikPrabhu which is a good use-case centric method
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tommyfun it should be standardized or youl get the markdown problem
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KartikPrabhu the documentation itself counts as a standard
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tommyfun god
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tommyfun good
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KartikPrabhu just that it is not governed by a standards-body but by use-cases
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@srcr RT @TapestryMaker: Ello, Known, #indieweb, and life after "Peak Facebook" http://stream.tapestrymaker.net/2014/ello-known-indieweb-and-life-after-peak-facebook (twitter.com/_/status/518313060663312384)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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jonnybarnes hello kauwika
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kauwika hello jonnybarnes
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jonnybarnes I dont recognise you username, is this you first time here? :)
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kauwika newbie here (hence indie-visitor)
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kauwika yes - finding my way around the freenode screen...
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jonnybarnes feel free to ask any questions
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jonnybarnes gaaah my laptops so slow :cries:
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kauwika and looking for chat/advice/general info on setting up an indieweb presence. In the current web environment, which is a bit differnet from last time I hostd a personal blog on my own domain...
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jonnybarnes one place to look is indiewebify.me
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kauwika I've been perusing indiewebcamp.com. Have a few ideas. Have previously had a Wordpress blog; previously had a drupal CMS running, but I'm getting old and tired and don't want it to be that much work any more...
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kauwika Cool!
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jonnybarnes if you dont wnt to manage your own setup a good piece of software may be known
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jonnybarnes withknown.com iirc
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jonnybarnes yup
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kauwika Nice... earlier today I set up a hosted account with known to give it a trial run. Clean! I like!
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kauwika I notice the facebook integration is one-way only on withknown, but if I install it on my own server I can add another app to handle back-links. (I have too many loose ends in my head at the moment - I forget what it's called.)
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kauwika Bridgy?
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jonnybarnes bridgy both backports comments from facebook and allows you to crossposrt your own content to facebook
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jonnybarnes that second part is known as POSSE
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jonnybarnes what is POSSE?
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Loqi POSSE is an acronym/abbreviation for Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE
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kauwika Yes! That's where I've been pondering heavily for a couple of days. I can set up a blog on my domain. btdt... It's the interconnections of the social web that I don't know much about.
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kauwika I've looked at "federation" services, like GNU Social - I'd either be relying on another host, or setting myself up for a lot of work to install my own instance. Known appears to be an even more autonomous approach, which suits me, but that doesn't mean I want to lose the connections I've built over the years.
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kauwika I think I'm leaning to wards either installing my own instance of Known or similar, or using a widely avaialble platfor like wordpress and adding the appropriate plugins.
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kauwika ('scuse typos!)
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kauwika My heart is with open source.
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auli.haldjas.org created /IndieWebCampParis (+413) "c" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com created /User:Auli.haldjas.org (+34) "Welcome on iwc Auli !" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com edited /IndieWebCampParis (+292) "/* meetup */ added semantics" (view diff)
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@thierrymarianne Come & join us tomorrow to discuss #IndieWeb activities in Paris, (from 2:00 PM) http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieWebCampParis cc: @xtof_fr @kirilind @dumeny (twitter.com/_/status/518360392138248192)
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Loqi [mention] http://xtof.withknown.com/2014/fdevillamil-nitot-dumeny-la-page-indiewebcampparis-est-ouverte-si-vous linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieWebCampParis (webmention)
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thierry.marianne.weaving-the-web.org edited /IndieWebCampParis (+46) "/* added link to thierry's indiewebcamp page */" (view diff)
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
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tantek great to see http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieWebCampParis happening!!!
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jdp23_ hmm. apparently i've registered jdp23, but don't know the password. is there a way to recover it?
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tantek jdp23_ I believe there is. Start with: /msg NickServ HELP
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achangeiscoming.net edited /IRC_People (+131) (view diff)
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jdp23_ thanks!
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jdp23_ apparently i need to ask a freenode staff member for a password reset. or just be jdp23_ until i get around to it
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jdp23 or connect from a different browser????
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jdp23 that's weird
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achangeiscoming.net edited /IRC_People (-1) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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tantek oh hey - nicely done jdp23!
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tantek and welcome!
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jdp23 is this the first POSSE between known, twitter, and ello? https://twitter.com/TapestryMaker/status/518446785413402624
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@TapestryMaker @cshirky good points. is it possible to provide flow when desired, without forcing it all the time? #ello http://stream.tapestrymaker.net/2014/cshirky-good-points-is-it-possible-to-provide-flow-when (twitter.com/_/status/518446785413402624)
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tantek ooh - that looks quite interesting
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achangeiscoming.net edited /Known (+140) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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tantek jdp23 - how did your reply show up on shirky's ello post? did you POSSE that manually? or did Known cross-comment for you?
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jdp23 @tantek thought you'd like that. and i was just reading through the logs, glad you appreciated the reference to Liz Gannes' 2011 "apologies of Facebook"
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tantek I also don't see your reply on your Ello profile: https://ello.co/jdp23
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jdp23 i manually posse'd it
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tantek ok good to know!
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jdp23 yeah i still haven't figured out just what ello shows on the profile
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tantek and apparently Ello comments (@-replies) are not considered part of your profile/feed?
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tantek although this showed up: https://ello.co/jdp23/post/fEVS-Mpvd4RRHQe1FAY8hw
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tantek a-ha but that's not an @-reply, that's merely an @-mention at the start of a top level post.
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tantek looks like your @-replies do not show up on your profile
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jdp23 i believe that's all correct. the UX is a little confusing, that @-mention to womenwhotech was supposed to be a @-reply
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jdp23 and, i don't believe there's a good way to see all your @-replies. so there's extra value in an off-silo copy.
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tantek or rather having off-silo originals ;)
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jdp23_ either way :)
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tantek jdp23: did you auto-POSSE from you Known to Twitter? or was this a manual POSSE tweet? https://twitter.com/TapestryMaker/status/518446785413402624
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@TapestryMaker @cshirky good points. is it possible to provide flow when desired, without forcing it all the time? #ello http://stream.tapestrymaker.net/2014/cshirky-good-points-is-it-possible-to-provide-flow-when (twitter.com/_/status/518446785413402624)
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jdp23 that was auto-posse'd from known to Twitter
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tantek hmm - upon looking closer at your permalink http://stream.tapestrymaker.net/2014/cshirky-good-points-is-it-possible-to-provide-flow-when it looks like you *manually* " Jon Pincus reshared this post " to Twitter
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tantek when Known auto-POSSEs a post, it puts a line with links to the POSSE copies with text like "Also on (Twitter) (Facebook)" - where the parentheticals are button-looking links to the POSSE copies.
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tantek there's no such display on your reply permalink
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jdp23 ah. that's because i mistakenly deleted the original post and then had to repost (this time without syndicating)
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tantek.com edited /Ello (+928) "start POSSE to Ello section with first example Jon Pincus. also criticism: no comment permalinks" (view diff)
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jdp23 so it was really POSSEDOSROS -- post on site syndicate elsewhere, delete on site, re-post on site
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tantek lol
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tantek jdp23++ for exploring how POSSE to Ello could work
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Loqi jdp23 has 1 karma
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tantek.com edited /Ello (+831) "add Features section at the top, similar to [[Twitter#Features]]" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Ello (+8) "move TOC down" (view diff)
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tantek jdp23: could you review this section? I wrote it up based on what I could tell from your and Clay Shirky's posts: http://indiewebcamp.com/Ello#Features (e.g. compare to http://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#Features )
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jdp23 ok i added a comment with the backstory. http://stream.tapestrymaker.net/2014/cshirky-good-points-is-it-possible-to-provide-flow-when/annotations/7733d7e62488d6cdf04cd668587ed047
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tantek see if anything is missing, or if I implied a feature that Ello does't support (yet)
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jdp23 tantek i was just looking at it, seems accurate, will make some minor tweaks later to include the POSSEDOSROS background.
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tantek or you could write a new post and POSSE it and we could use that as the example :)
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tantek the POSSEDOSROS background seems confusing (I'm still not sure I understand what happened, might need a diagram ;) )
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jdp23 ok i won't add that
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jdp23 yeah, i'll do another post -- probably not until later today though
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tantek whenever you would otherwise post :)
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jdp23 that's a good suggestion, make it a cleaner example. how long until somebody puts this together with the "unofficial api"? :)
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tantek also - the POSSE a reply as a comment (even if manually) is a good example too (worthy of a second example)
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jdp23 yeah
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jdp23 good use cases
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jdp23 all righty, i'm going to take off ... is hwc this wednesday night?
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tantek yeah - I did a POSSE a reply as a comment (manually) myself to a WordPress blog
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tantek http://tantek.com/2014/255/t2/well-deserved-talented-known-minor-correction
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tantek and since WordPress has permalinks for comments, I was able to include an "View on GigaOM" link to the copy
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tantek jdp23: yes next HWC is 2014-10-08 - HOWEVER we don't have a host in SF yet
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jdp23 yep, great example
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tantek where are you based?
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jdp23 i'm in sf this week. based in my apartment so that's not a solution :)
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jdp23 ok well i'll keep my eyes peeled. see you there perhaps.
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jdp23 enjoy the weekend!
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tantek if you can find at least *one* more person in SF who will commit to meeting up - you can run HWC SF this week!
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tantek instructions here: http://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club
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jdp23 hmm, i'll think about it ...
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tantek we're that open a community - where anyone can make meetups happen
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tantek if you have any questions about how to run one - happy to help
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jdp23 ok thanks ... i may well take you up on that
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jdp23 talk to you soon!
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tantek you too!
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-10-08-homebrew-website-club (+113) "/* Where */ note SF has no organizer for this week's meetup, provide instructions how to if anyone else wants to - maybe jdp23? Just takes two!" (view diff)
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tantek !tell KartikPrabhu looks like "u-featured" is only documented here: http://indiewebcamp.com/link-preview#u-featured, perhaps we should start a /featured page starting with all of http://indiewebcamp.com/link-preview#brainstorming and expanding upon it?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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xxcoeurxx the bad thing about silos: apparently i am signed up to medium
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tantek doesn't medium do sign-in via Twitter OAuth?
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tantek.com edited /WordPress (+957) "POSSE to WordPress (vs Hosted), add example of POSSEing a reply to a WP post as a comment on that post" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /WordPress (+159) "/* Tantek reply POSSE */ related, Bridgy Publish feature request" (view diff)
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tantek good morning aaronpk. I was just flipping through my many windows with open tabs and noticed that I'd collected the multi-RSVP examples from you and me
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tantek http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/09/08/1/ and http://tantek.com/2014/255/t3/going-indieweb-xoxo-breakfast
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tantek it's like a multi-reply but RSVPs to multiple event posts that makes sense because they represent the same event!
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xxcoeurxx tantek: no idea, but when i googled myself i found out that i had one...
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kylewm tantek: can you recommend a coffee shop/other appropriate meeting place in the general vicinity of mozilla sf?
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kylewm i can be there to grab a table for HWC
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tantek kylewm: cool! I think jdp23 is also mostly convinced to help co-organize HWC SF - he was in the channel earlier.
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tantek kylewm - you come from Caltrain right?
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kylewm yep
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kylewm I know the mission pretty well but not SOMA so much
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kylewm hopping off, but I am open to suggestions!
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tantek kylewm: I suggest The Grove on 3rd & Mission
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tantek It's got plenty of variable size table seating, wide spectrum of drink/snack/meal choices depending what you want
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tantek easy bike/walk up 3rd street to Mission
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tantek from Caltrain
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tantek oh and they have several quiet booths upstairs in their second floor which would be especially conducive to meetup discussions
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bret internet can be spotty
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bret sit on the side closes to peats
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bret s/closes/closest
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Loqi bret meant to say: sit on the side closest to peats
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tantek bret - that's a very good point
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tantek in fact they might not even have wifi anymore
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tantek kylewm: other options, The Creamery (very near Caltrain), has wifi, but seating is unpredictable, and closes at 19:30. or La Boulange du Dome in the 4th(?) floor of Westfield Mall (between Market/Mission 4th/5th) - has wifi and *a bit more* seating than The Creamery, and open later.
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bret what microformat parser does http://pin13.net use?
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tantek phpmf2
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bret are there any online versions of the microformat python or ruby parsers?
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KartikPrabhu bret: https://mf2py.herokuapp.com/
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: tantek left you a message 44 minutes ago: looks like "u-featured" is only documented here: http://indiewebcamp.com/link-preview#u-featured, perhaps we should start a /featured page starting with all of http://indiewebcamp.com/link-preview#brainstorming and expanding upon it?
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bret KartikPrabhu: while you are here, can you relink me to your parser on your site too?
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KartikPrabhu https://kartikprabhu.com/connection/mfparser
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tantek bret: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2#Parsers
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bret aww dang got stuck editing http://microformats.org/wiki/code-tools
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bret tantek: I guess I'll add in the details I put together there instead (/microformats2#Parsers)
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petermolnar hey, dear indieweb, I have question: had anyone ever tried to pull in comments from reddit, ycombinator news, etc? does anyone think it would be possible?
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tantek bret: definitely update /code-tools too!
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tantek petermolnar: I'm not sure anyone has ever wanted to before! (fairly low quality :/ )
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petermolnar true, but many commenting threads are taking place there
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bret Can I just put a pointer to /microformats2#Parsers ?
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bret I have to step out... saving my edits in a text edit
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bret editor
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tantek petermolnar - it's a question of, is it the kind of discussion you would want in your living room (personal site) ?
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KartikPrabhu petermolnar: do you participate in reddit or those other ones?
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petermolnar KartikPrabhu, no I don't, I was just thinking about it
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petermolnar tantek well... no, not really :)
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petermolnar forget it :)
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KartikPrabhu aah ok. I think the fact that no one has done it yet indicates somethings
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tantek petermolnar, KartikPrabhu these are good questions to ask and consider re: /backfeed (pulling in comments/interactions from POSSE copies)
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tantek perhaps we should add a == Why or Why Not == section documenting this on /backfeed
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tantek would be also good to capture the discussion yesterday about different expectations of backfeeding public Facebook comments to your site.
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KartikPrabhu tantek: the last one seems to be captued already here: https://indiewebcamp.com/backfeed#Discussion
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tantek not really, at least not the specific things discussed yesterday
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tantek and a bunch of the Yes/No is hypothetical talk. might be better to redo/restructure based on citations of actual questions raised by folks about real world backfeeding
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bret !tell ShaneHudson ampersands on your sites index page are turning into "&amp"
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu phew! finally open sourced https://github.com/kartikprabhu/connection with installation instructions... now to make a respectable project page
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snarfed KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 69 karma
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snarfed and don't stress too much about the web page. lots of respectable projects get by fine with just a github readme
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: it is more for me than others :) ultimately I want to self-host the code too
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tantek KartikPrabhu++ for open sourcing some of his site code! nice!
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 70 karma
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KevinMarks More comment frustration Check out @semil's Tweet: https://twitter.com/semil/status/518546686524657664
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@semil @cdixon agree on #2. maybe JP Morgan fiasco will trigger something. (also noticed Disqus disabled. have been thinking same. too much spam.) (twitter.com/_/status/518546686524657664)
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tantek KevinMarks: sounds like a criticism of Disqus
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tantek what is disqus
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Loqi Disqus is a comments hosting silo http://indiewebcamp.com/Disqus