#indiewebcamp 2014-10-05

2014-10-05 UTC
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tantek.com edited /Disqus (+183) "/* Criticism */ spam per Twitter cite" (view diff)
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GWG I have returned and I have resumed food intake
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GWG tantek: I'm looking at your POSSE to Wordpress wiki additions
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tantek cool
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GWG tantek: If the WordPress site does add Webmention support, it will happen automatically though, but like with many things, you can't count on that.
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GWG Wonder suddenly if trying to get webmentions support into Core Wordpress is a viable option
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tantek GWG - that's the fastest path to getting webmention spam to happen.
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GWG tantek: So, what is the solution?
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tantek what's the problem you are trying to solve?
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GWG tantek: You added notes to the wiki on manually POSSEing to WordPress sites, of which there are many
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GWG I commented that if Webmentions were supported, which is currently possible through a plugin, no manual process would be required.
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tantek indeed, and an incrementally better solution would be using a proxy to do so, hence the Bridgy Publish feature request.
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tantek that's in my POSSE to Wordpress wiki additions
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GWG I then wondered if there was a case for getting it baked into WordPress
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GWG You commented that was a fast way to spam
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GWG The question I'm now wondering is...isn't that inevitable once you go mainstream with anything?
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tantek correct, that is a flaw in "getting it baked into WordPress"
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GWG tantek: Isn't there a positive as well?
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tantek GWG, I still don't understand what problem *you* are trying to solve.
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GWG tantek: I want to talk to more people?
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GWG Lowering the barrier to people commenting on what I have to say and vice-versa.
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GWG My goal is always to have more interesting dialogue.
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tantek POSSE+backfeed solve that problem with existing systems, a much lower barrier than anything to do with WordPress
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tantek GWG - but your questions are good ones, and illustrate that /backfeed is insufficiently documented to make this clear
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GWG tantek: For now, I'll move on from that. Other things to think of
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tantek GWG, I'm writing up /backfeed#Why right now thanks to you.
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tantek it was missing for far too long
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GWG tantek: I think of the question of submitting webmentions for comments in the context of the recent interest in Known
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GWG People liked all the features in that areas they saw, and we got people who, hopefully, hang around beyond the initial excitement.
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GWG I'm worried about spam too, which you brought up, because I've dealt with pingback etc. on that.
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GWG I'm looking forward to reading the why.
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tantek GWG, right now we're making progress with webmention because of deliberate slow organic growth, which gives us time to react and iterate.
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GWG tantek: So, the concern is that a massive influx will overwhelm growth? Hmmm...
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tantek no. it creates a larger target for spam. when that target becomes big enough to be worth attacking, the spam will happen, first in a trickle, and then all at once.
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GWG And we aren't ready for it?
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tantek no we are not. that should be obvious. there is no mechanism preventing existing pingback spammers from also spamming webmention. the only barrier is a bit more endpoint discovery code, and a bit easy microformats markup.
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GWG I'm agreeing with you on that.
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tantek the adoption spike of Known has already greatly accelerated our previously somewhat linear organic growth, hence why i spent some time refining my thoughts on an improved webmention and brainstormed the vouch protocol directly into IRC rather than spending the time doing a longer write-up.
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tantek anyway - I believe I am repeating what is already documented on /spam - perhaps re-read that?
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GWG I read it
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tantek if not, then we can add your questions and these answers as more FAQ
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GWG While we were discussingb
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acegiak tantek: I have the first stage of my whitelist plugin for wordpress nearly done
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acegiak once we have vouching a bit more working I'll update it to allow for that
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GWG acegiak: Looking forward to seeing more of that.
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GWG acegiak: Are you writing it as an extension to the Comment system or independently?
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acegiak GWG: It's just filtering the comments based on whether the url is in bookmarks at the moment
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acegiak next step is to create an xfn tree and have it's depth be configurable
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tantek neat
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GWG acegiak: Look at a hook called wp_allow_comment
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GWG acegiak: Also there is a filter called pre_comment_approved
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GWG acegiak: At what level is it filtering?
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GWG acegiak: Which bookmarks also?
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aaronpk_ thinking we need a way for micropub clients to query the capabilities of a micropub endpoint
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tantek oh dear - be careful with that line of thinking, be very deliberate with your documentation of use-cases or else you will end up down the dark path of reinventing WSDL
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tantek "capabilities" is the trigger word there
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aaronpk_ indeed
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aaronpk_ this did come up within 5 minutes of starting to write a new micropub client
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GWG aaronpk_: What happens when you query a MicroPub endpoint?
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aaronpk_ but I will keep developing before exploring this further
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tantek aaronpk - the other path of thinking is well designed fall backs, e.g. like CSS.
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tantek and HTML for that matter
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tantek harder to design, but much more reliable to use
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tantek.com edited /backfeed (+1500) "rewrite and re-organize why and how approaches" (view diff)
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tantek GWG, aaronpk, here you go: http://indiewebcamp.com/backfeed#Why
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aaronpk_ may be possible to use "scope" for this
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aaronpk_ a micropub client requests the scope of "post-food" and if the token includes that scope then it can be assumed that the micropub endpoint knows how to handle creating posts of that type. if the token is granted with a scope that does not include the requested one, then the endpoint doesn't support it
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tantek that makes a lot of sense
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aaronpk_ that also builds in the ability for someone to not grant requested scopes to a client even if it was possible for the endpoint to support it.
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aaronpk_ like benwerd's "checkboxes, bitches" UI mockup
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aaronpk_ benward*
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aaronpk_ https://benward.me/blog/tumblr-968515729
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aaronpk_ documented here now https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/issues/72
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aaronpk_ but every authorization server should implement that kind of thing. I'll just implement it on indieauth.com as a reference
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tantek what is OAuth?
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Loqi OAuth is an authorization protocol created to replace the need for client applications of a service (e.g http://indiewebcamp.com/oauth
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aaronpk_ ha summary fail
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aaronparecki.com edited /OAuth (+31) "explicit p-summary" (view diff)
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aaronpk_ what is oauth?
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Loqi OAuth is an authorization protocol created to replace the need for client applications of a service (e.g. a silo) to ask for your username and password to the service in order to access the service on your behalf http://indiewebcamp.com/oauth
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tantek.com edited /OAuth (+458) "UI ideas - checkboxes, benward post" (view diff)
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tantek phew no edit collision :)
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tantek.com edited /pingback (+244) "add projects section with link to webmention.io github for handling pingbacks. makes more sense here than in backfeed see also." (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /comment (+168) "/* Comments Embeds */ move Juvia here where it makes more sense than in backfeed see also" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ Did benward get to ship that yet?
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aaronpk_ no :( Facebook beat him to it
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aaronpk_ sort of
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tantek Twitter never did ship that which Ben invented independently which got him interviewed/hired there.
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tantek more fuel for the db-ap fire: http://krispysbytes.org/tag/publish-once-syndicate-everywhere/
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aaronpk_ tantek: I can't read the link! "Error establishing a database connection"
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aaronpk_ ;)
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tantek what is db-ap?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "db-ap" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=db-ap
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tantek.com created /db-ap (+34) "r shorthand" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /dbap (+34) "r even shorter" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /POSSE (+717) "/* Background */ note arrows out = POSSE, in = backfeed, 2011 IndieWebCamp session, related POSE term" (view diff)
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tantek I'm pretty sure barnabywalters proposed the term "backfeed", but no amount of Google searching, nor waterpigs.co.uk searching finds anything earlier than 2013-06-30
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tantek anybody have a citation to where barnabywalters first proposed the term backfeed?
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aaronpk_ weird! I kind of remember that too!
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aaronpk_ well there's always the original wiki edit! http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=backfeed&oldid=823
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aaronpk_ from 2012-06-10
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tantek.com edited /backfeed (+419) "add Background, cleanup See Also: move low relevance links to more appropriate pages" (view diff)
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tantek that will have to do as an earliest reference to the term then
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tantek and searching IRC logs via twitter is useless for time-window based searching
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tantek I mean via Google
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tantek.com edited /timeline (+166) "/* 2010 */ 2010-02-03 backfeed concept as reverse syndication" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /timeline (+135) "/* 2012 */ 2012-06-10 backfeed term proposed by barnaby with the creation of the backfeed page" (view diff)
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tantek The other term I can't seem to find an originating definition for is POSE - one of the related predecessors to POSSE: "POSE" - Publish Once Syndicate Everywhere
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tantek the only permalink I could find was my own, discussing how POSSE was better than POSE: http://tantek.com/2012/173/t1/posse-core-indieweb-approach
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tantek I did find this: https://peterbhhill.wordpress.com/2011/08/06/digital-outsider-from-mediapost-cisco-gets-in/
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tantek and this http://university-web-developers.1112205.n2.nabble.com/Faculty-listing-td7021981.html#a7024756
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tantek what is POSE?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "POSE" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=POSE
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@thursdayschild @nicopolitan My biggest Ghost thing now is comments. Disqus and Muut work, but I don't like either. I'd like to integrate Webmention, though (twitter.com/_/status/518592596848181250)
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tantek.com created /POSE (+1410) "stub with historical articles for reference and historical context" (view diff)
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tantek perhaps someone in the Ghost community will actually get some indieweb interop working. there's hope.
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aaronpk_ I would like to think so too
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tantek which means there's a chance of piercing the Ghost monoculture
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tantek better search query for dbconnection error: https://www.google.com/search?q="Database+Error"+"Error+establishing+a+database+connection"+-fix+-wordpress+-website+-login+-help+-account+-join+-atg+-scary+-problems+-mining
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tantek darn quotes
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tantek how about: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Database+Error%22+%22Error+establishing+a+database+connection%22+-fix+-wordpress+-website+-login+-help+-account+-join+-atg+-scary+-problems+-mining
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tantek.com edited /database-antipattern (+306) "/* DB connection loss */ another better search - for sites indexed as "Database Error" "Error establishing a database connection"" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] http://known.kevinmarks.com/2014/how-did-twitter-become-the-hate-speech-wing-of-the linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://known.kevinmarks.com/2014/how-did-twitter-become-the-hate-speech-wing-of-the linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (webmention)
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aaronpk_ whoa hello html
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aaronpk_ or css rather
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KevinMarks__ thoughts on this post?
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KevinMarks__ what?
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KevinMarks__ grr
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aaronpk_ I see a bunch of CSS
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KevinMarks__ pages benwerd
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tantek.com edited /database-antipattern (+457) "/* DB connection loss */ note specific example found today during unrelated google search, quote the boilerplate error markup that comes back" (view diff)
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KevinMarks__ I try using the editor adn this happens
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KevinMarks__ back to handmade html
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tantek which editor?
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KevinMarks__ the one built into known
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tantek oops
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KevinMarks__ I did paste into it from gdocs
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KevinMarks__ OK, that's closer
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KevinMarks__ still one bad link
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jdp23 it's tough without a preview function. i wound up setting up a separate private known site just so i could preview things there :-|
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aaronpk_ wow that'd good feedback jdp23
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KevinMarks__ yes, that is a problem
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KevinMarks__ ah, it doesn'tliek my archive.org url
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xxcoeurxx is there an implementation of webmentions ?
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KevinMarks__ several
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KevinMarks__ known has one, for example
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xxcoeurxx excellent.
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xxcoeurxx i'll see if i can whip together something for ghost.
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KevinMarks__ OK, please read that post now and tell me if there's anything up with it. I'm about to manually POSSE to my main site, my blog and medium
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KevinMarks__ ooh, that would be nice xxcoeurxx
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jdp23 looks good to me Kevin
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xxcoeurxx you know KevinMarks__ you need my "charybdis happens" tee ;p
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KevinMarks__ so, do I post this on ello as well?
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aaronpk_ what is POSE?
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Loqi POSE is an acronym for "Publish Once Syndicate Everywhere" which is conceptually similar to but looser than POSSE, which asserts that the "once" be on your "own site" http://indiewebcamp.com/POSE
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xxcoeurxx KevinMarks__: yeah
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KevinMarks__ It's on my site
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xxcoeurxx quote the best part, provide a sourcelink :)
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xxcoeurxx like the olden days of twitter.
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xxcoeurxx (btw i reactivated my old twitter to post an update about the new twitter acct)
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KevinMarks__ heh
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KevinMarks__ isn't ello supposed to allow longform?
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xxcoeurxx yep
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jdp23 ello does allow long form but when i did a longish blog post i wound up just summarizing on ello -- https://ello.co/jdp23/post/fvam60wGRCqcX3ONnFBEqQ
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KevinMarks__ hm
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KevinMarks__ POSSE by hand: http://epeus.blogspot.com/2014/10/how-did-twitter-become-hate-speech-wing.html
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KevinMarks__ http://epeus.blogspot.com/2014/10/how-did-twitter-become-hate-speech-wing.html
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aaronpk_ has anyone seen any docs on getting Known to work with a shared host that runs cpanel?
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KevinMarks__ so, ello or medium as my next POSSE target
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KevinMarks__ people using bread emoji for like on Known: https://ello.co/budnitz/post/F4Nwcnkjv-lwXimAk7EYPg
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KevinMarks__ er, on ello
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tantek KevinMarks: that's a good "rise and fall of Twitter" post
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KevinMarks__ it's the one I've been meaning to write for a couple of months
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KevinMarks__ and I had a long wait at the barbers today, so I wrote it
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tantek but what if you're lowcarb or paleo? :P
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KevinMarks__ then use a steak
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aaronpk_ what if you're vegetarian
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tantek pretty sure the :name: syntax is just markdown for emoji in general
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KevinMarks__ yes
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jdp23 :tofu:
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KevinMarks__ :poodle:
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aaronpk_ :tempeh:
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KevinMarks__ there are in fact lots of japanese food emoji
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jdp23 :sushi:
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KevinMarks__ for obvious reasons
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KevinMarks__ but no cheese
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aaronpk_ sadly no :taco:
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jdp23 it'd be great to convert the emoji in the transcripts
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aaronpk_ it could be done. there is an open source emoji artwork library now
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jdp23 yeah i saw that, very cool
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tantek I predict the demise of :bread: , replaced with :heart: ♥ and :+1: 👍
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jdp23 it's hard to know. on The Tapestries, we introduced the non-standard emoji :muffin: and it totally caught on
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tantek as already in use on that very budnitz post KevinMarks
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KevinMarks__ indeed
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tantek jdp23 clever. a non-standard emoji has artificial scarcity and thus greater implied value not to mention novelty.
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jdp23 plus, people like muffins :)
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jdp23 i was disappointed that there doesn't seem to be a good jquery emoji palette implemetnation out there ...
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jdp23 KevinMarks__ on a different subject how much have you gotten involved with Quirell?
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KevinMarks__ I've joined in the discussions, which is all there is so far, trying to point out prior work they might find useful
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KevinMarks__ they have very specific requirements we need to listen to as part of general protocol design
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tantek what is Quirell?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Quirell" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Quirell
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jdp23 yeah they're certainly thinking about a lot of things that most social networks don't
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KevinMarks__ if ello is just markdown, can I paste in some html?
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tantek depends on the flavor of markdown ;)
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tantek KevinMarks - what's the use-case?
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KevinMarks__ manual POSSE
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KevinMarks__ looks liek it works
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jdp23 no, ello's markdown doesn't handle HTML
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jdp23 or at least it didn't for me
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tantek KevinMarks: I think I'm not seeing the "blowing up your phone" notifications problem because I saw it before anyone else did - with all the false references to @t - and thus turned everything off long ago - abusive or not.
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tantek is there a canary emoji?
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tantek this is also a good blog post: http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2014/08/12/twitterfail-twitters-refusal-handle-online-stalkers-abusers-haters/
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KevinMarks__ didn't I link it?
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tantek yes you did - I just read it
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KevinMarks__ tantek++ for reading the links
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Loqi tantek has 91 karma
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tantek ah you linked to Quirell
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tantek are you fricking kidding me: https://gitlab.com/collectqt/quirell/issues/56
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tantek governance-antipattern: when you spend time discussing governance. especially before launching. See also: http://tantek.com/w/TrollTaxonomy#Bureaucracytroll
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jdp23 it can be an antipattern -- but so can failing to discuss governance
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tantek jdp23 - that's what CC0 is for.
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tantek and selfdogfooding and scratching your own itch
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KevinMarks__ Lynn is trying to collect the group first
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jdp23 yeah. i think when you come at it from a social justice perspective those things are critical to discuss up front
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tantek jdp23 - disagree completely. perhaps a social justice *theory* perspective. vs. social justice *action* perspective
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tantek is this unaware irony or deliberate irony? https://twitter.com/OfficialQuirell/status/518127765032550403
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@OfficialQuirell Spread the word, yall. @CollectQT's Quirell social network now has an official twitter. (twitter.com/_/status/518127765032550403)
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Loqi [mention] http://epeus.blogspot.com/2014/10/how-did-twitter-become-hate-speech-wing.html linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (webmention)
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KevinMarks__ wonders how rel="syndication" helps when I make this many copies
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tantek KevinMarks, jdp23 I predict the first thing "shipped" will be … a manifesto
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KevinMarks__ alo I need to propagate the syndication links between the copies too
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jdp23 my guess is that every single person considering getting involved in Quirell (or any similar project) will ahve significant questions about governance.
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tantek jdp23 - I suppose we reject the assumption therein - that you would need to submit to a centralized site that would require governance.
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jdp23 there's nothing the matter with starting with a manifesto
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tantek jdp23 - it's a methodology with a bad track record, plenty the matter.
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KevinMarks__ I'm not going to tell them how ot run their project; I am goign to try to keep up with ti and point to work here and elsewhere that they might be interested in
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jdp23 KevinMarks++
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Loqi KevinMarks has 63 karma
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tantek KevinMarks: of course not. Have you asked questions? Like why assume a centralized service at all?
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jdp23 tantek every single methodology out there has a bad track record. most programming projects fail. most social network projects fail to get to critical mass. most social network projects that do get to critical mass then turn sour in some way.
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KevinMarks__ they didn't start with governance, lynn is using the issues as a discussion board
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tantek jdp23 - disagreed. scratching your own itch has an excellent track record, especially when you look at the sites that end up successful.
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bret.io edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+12) "/* Established Meetings */ Added myself" (view diff)
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KevinMarks__ I did talk about ti in https://gitlab.com/collectqt/quirell/issues/16
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@RichieMerritt • Implementing more IndieWeb scripts to my blog :) #IndieWeb #POSSE #WebMentions #BackFeed #Stream â–ºCoding & Designing since '96 biatches (twitter.com/_/status/518627782046142464)
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jdp23 well, i think the Quirell folks are definitely scratching their own itch
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tantek then that's the good sign.
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jdp23 other than dreamwidth i have a nard time thinknig of any other social network that has a queer/trans positive feel
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jdp23 (well and The Tapestries of course. but with only a handful of users that doesn't count)
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tantek jdp23 what about your own personal site?
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bret (or primary social presence online)
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bret ;)
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KevinMarks__ tantek, where are you HWCing this week?
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tantek KevinMarks I see you're behind on the logs ;)
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jdp23 yes the social network i'm prototyping is very queer/trans positive -- and diversity-friendly in general.
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tantek jdp23++
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Loqi jdp23 has 2 karma
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KevinMarks__ and you're behind on RSVPs: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-10-08-homebrew-website-club
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tantek KevinMarks: I'm not behind. The state of that link is accurate to the present.
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tantek see especially: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-10-08-homebrew-website-club#Where
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bret speaking of which, we need to get pdx hwc together... better monday than wed :0
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KevinMarks__ I saw you were unavailable, I wondered if you were in some other city
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tantek I'll be in Brooklyn for Beta
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jdp23 tantek i can co-host it with kylewm -- i saw the discussion of options for a place
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bret What is beta?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "beta" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=beta
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tantek jdp23 - that would be great!
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KevinMarks__ so are you doing a HWC brooklyn?
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KevinMarks__ I bet you could get deanna to find locals
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bret also brian?
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tantek possibly - since they don't show up here frequently / responsively, I don't hold out much hope on organizing.
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tantek the home page of http://collectqt.herokuapp.com/ is far more interesting that the Twitter - which I suppose is a good sign (rather than vice versa)
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achangeiscoming.net edited /User:Achangeiscoming.net (+105) (view diff)
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achangeiscoming.net edited /events/2014-10-08-homebrew-website-club (-266) "/* Where */" (view diff)
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tantek KevinMarks: you linked the phrase "phone becomes useless " to a tweet that is about "***OSX*** Twitter client crashing/lagging repeatedly. Too many tweets." - what phones do you know of that run OSX?
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tantek http://epeus.blogspot.com/2014/10/how-did-twitter-become-hate-speech-wing.html##phone+becomes+useless
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KevinMarks__ oops
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KevinMarks__ also, bridgy fail: http://known.kevinmarks.com/2014/how-did-twitter-become-the-hate-speech-wing-of-the
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KevinMarks__ posts my syndicated post as a comment
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tantek indeed
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jdp23 so what's the protocol for the HWC invitation: should I create an event on my blog, and then POSSE to Facebook?
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tantek jdp23 - ideal but not required
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jdp23 i was basically just going to mirror benwerd's from a month ago
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jdp23 <--- a skilled mimic
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tantek I'd say once you agree on a location with kylewm, then yes - go ahead and post an indie event and manually POSSE it to a public FB event.
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tantek skilledmimic++
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Loqi skilledmimic has 1 karma
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KevinMarks__ that's good in terms of demoing RSVP posse
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tantek KevinMarks - Bridgy Publish does RSVP POSSE for you!
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tantek jdp23 - one way to avoid governance is by empowering everyone to have sovreignty over their own identity and data by using their own sites.
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KevinMarks Support for your anti manifesto stance? Check out @timoreilly's Tweet: https://twitter.com/timoreilly/status/518597151652196352
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@timoreilly "There are too many abstract conversations." @MTBracken's " Show the thing" is the key to social change, says @pahlkadot at #ybca (twitter.com/_/status/518597151652196352)
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tantek KevinMarks - exactly. same reason why you're not going to email yourself into building a website.
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KevinMarks__ realises that posting after midnight east coast time on a saturday is not really optimal for discussion
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tantek KevinMarks - unless by "discussion" you mean "reactions" on "Twitter", and in that case, I'd say you certainly made that happy the other day with your citation of DBAP.
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tantek s/happy/happen
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Loqi tantek meant to say: KevinMarks - unless by "discussion" you mean "reactions" on "Twitter", and in that case, I'd say you certainly made that happen the other day with your citation of DBAP.
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KevinMarks__ heh
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KevinMarks__ so I need to send inflammatory hashtags about code to feminists again?
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KevinMarks__ or I need to add an eyecatching image to the post and share it on facebok
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jdp23 so i need to create an event on known, manually posse it to Facebook, and then make a separate status post on known to get it syndicated?
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tantek imagines some mashup image between Angry Birds and the Twitter logo
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tantek jdp23 - I believe you can edit the event on known somehow to get the "Also on Facebook" link to your manually POSSE copy
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jdp23 ok
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tantek if you do get it to work, likely worth documenting on /Known :)
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jdp23 and tantek have you ever read The Tyranny of Structuralessness?
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jdp23 in terms of avoiding governance by empowering everybody to have sovereignty ... there's circularity here. who writes the software that enables everybody to do this? who owns the copyrights and trademarks? what's the governance model for that group?
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tantek 1. software? hence empower everyone to do so. 2. owns copyrights? hence CC0. 3. governance? fork / submit pull request / move on.
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KevinMarks__ if you link to the known event from the FB one, bridgy will webmention the RSVPs over
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Loqi [mention] http://stream.tapestrymaker.net/2014/homebrew-website-club-october-8-2014 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-10-08-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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tantek jdp23 - I put forth BarCamp as a real world counter-example that disproves the premises in The Tyranny of Structuralessness
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jdp23 how does this look? http://stream.tapestrymaker.net/2014/homebrew-website-club-october-8-2014
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tantek jdp23: looks good - needs location :)
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jdp23 right. on the wiki i talked about the place in the Westfield maill as a possibility
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jdp23 i'm hoping people have some input over the next few days
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tantek jdp23 - I for one have tired of long prose with assertions without citations. If there's anything the web has given us, and URLs, it's the ability to form *better* arguments with citations, rather than "take my word for it" logical reasoning / handwaving.
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tantek just in today's examples, THIS: http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2014/08/12/twitterfail-twitters-refusal-handle-online-stalkers-abusers-haters/ is much more useful/interesting/believable/actionable than the Tyranny article/talk.
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tantek examples are cited etc.
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jdp23 i agree about the value of evidence and the web's ability to do so. skud calls the documentation they do on the Geek Feminism wiki "evidence-based feminism"
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tantek the very existence of the web has raised the bar in what is possible in political / philosophical discussion - so we should raise our expectations as well.
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tantek evidence helps you focus on what's actionable, and take action, rather than endless abstract conversation
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jdp23 governance isn't abstract. governance is very concrete
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tantek it can be either
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jdp23 well, there can be abstract conversations that don't get anywhere
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tantek I'd put it differently - they are not time efficient
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jdp23 but in your 1/2/3 point above, 2 and 3 are governance decisions. you're arguing that these are the right decisions. where's your evidence of trans/queer-positive social networks that didn't have governance discussions up front?
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jdp23 Dreamwidth was in a slightly different situation because they were forking an existing code base. but as i understand it there were a lot of discussions before they launched about what the governance was going to be
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tantek no such specialization was attempted. rather, starting simply, minimally, and with the most freedom to empower people to work towards their own goals.
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tantek CC0 is an important building block that still relatively "recent"
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KevinMarks__ a lot of social networks grew queer communities in parallel with others
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KevinMarks__ Friendster had a very strong gay community
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jdp23 gay != queer/trans
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tantek KevinMarks: I do remember that about Friendster.
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jdp23 but, i agree with the general point. didn't mean to imply otherwise
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jdp23 however i don't believe they were not started with these specific goals of diveristy
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KevinMarks__ right. that's kind of my overlapping publics point
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jdp23 right i thought that was a good point
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KevinMarks__ when we had a lot of social network sites they grew in unexpected ways, as they took off within certain groups
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tantek jdp23 - that being said, evidence has demonstrated that there is harrassment which requires more explicit policies, governance if you will, hence http://indiewebcamp.com/code-of-conduct
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jdp23 right. that's a great example of a governance discussion that has to be had explicitly, and is better to have up front then after the fact
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KevinMarks__ you need a bit of cross-pollination and connection between groups, but if you make the flow too strong we get the kind of stuff that freebsdgirl is getting tonight
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tantek jdp23 - we did have it after the fact - after we started organizing IndieWebCamp events.
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tantek despite not having had any incidents of harrasment at any IndieWebCamp per se, given incidents at *other* tech meetups, it was reasonable to conclude that it may just be a matter of time (probability), and thus worth documenting the existing organic "good" culture, along with explicit steps to demonstrate caring for the safety of individuals
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jdp23 agreed
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jdp23 and, like you said about CCO, this is an area where awareness is increasing
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tantek indeed, awareness helps. as does licensing the code of conduct itself with CC0, allowing maximum re-use.
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tantek more important that those ideas are reusable/reused than any form of attribution IMO.
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jdp23 true. but there are a variety of codes out there. how does a new community decide which to adopt and how to adapt them?
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jdp23 by having governance dicussions. and, in a queer/trans project, everybody is probably coming into it having had bad experiences elsewhere. so having these discussions early is very important.
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tantek the usual for product development. minimum viable, then iterate. ;)
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KevinMarks__ right but that clashes with tone/culture setting as basis of community
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KevinMarks__ there is less tension here in IWC because the community is mostly devs
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tantek KevinMarks: I think that's the wrong order. Rather than attempting to *set* tone/culture onto a community, study healthy organic communities, and document their tone/culture so it is reinforced, and copied.
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KevinMarks__ thats good
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tantek I'd rather help reinforce healthy communities, than worry about "fixing" the broken ones.
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tantek by creating/propagating healthy communities, we provide a competitive migration path away from broken ones (e.g. monocultures)
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xxcoeurxx tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 92 karma
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KartikPrabhu is back from an underwhelming Chicago Fire Festival and catching up on logs
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tantek in addition, by making our own community itself *forkable* (by way of providing everything "community" in CC0 / open source), we empower others to make *even healthier* communities, if we happen to screw up.
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk
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KartikPrabhu poo
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk_ could micropub have some sort of auto-suggest for tags/categories depending on the receiving endpoint?
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tantek.com edited /Twitter (+377) "/* Criticism */ Poor handling of abuse, cite http://rhrealitycheck.org article" (view diff)
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xxcoeurxx https://38.media.tumblr.com/20e098400ac7cfd58498e87f83197d78/tumblr_ncybuauuOj1rcoitgo1_500.gif i'm really liking how this gif turned out
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@xxcoeur66xx begun a #ghost webmention plugin for #indieweb bringing the powah back to conversations. baibai silos. (twitter.com/_/status/518645453114859520)
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xxcoeurxx O_o
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xxcoeurxx neat
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tantek xxcoeurxx++ !!!
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Loqi xxcoeurxx has 2 karma
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xxcoeurxx :3
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KartikPrabhu xxcoeurxx: Loqi is very clever :)
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Loqi :)
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xxcoeurxx i've spent three hours reading and doing some minor coding, i shouldve gone to bed 8 hours ago :p
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KartikPrabhu story of my life
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xxcoeurxx KartikPrabhu: i noticed haha
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xxcoeurxx i also did some minor updates on ze journal http://journal.levenom.com/
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xxcoeurxx KartikPrabhu: haha
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KartikPrabhu xxcoeurxx: love the font choice!
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xxcoeurxx thanks KartikPrabhu :)
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KartikPrabhu little things like font choice, and visual design makes it so much more enjoyable to read individual sites than silos where everyone looks and feels the same except for some colour changes
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xxcoeurxx yep
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xxcoeurxx that's what i miss partly the most, the visual identity along with the longform
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xxcoeurxx nowadays, everything looks the same
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xxcoeurxx i mean, medium was early, but now everything looks like it.
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KartikPrabhu yup! part of what I missed before I moved to my own site. talked about it in https://kartikprabhu.com/article/redux
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xxcoeurxx ooh interesting :D
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jdp23 xxcoueurxx love the way your site looks, what software are you running?
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xxcoeurxx jdp ghost with a tweaked default theme.
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xxcoeurxx doh
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KartikPrabhu man that post is a year old now! :P
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xxcoeurxx jdp23: ghost with a tweaked default theme
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xxcoeurxx KartikPrabhu: well i did write this in 2012 http://journal.levenom.com/not-your-kind-of-social/
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xxcoeurxx jdp23: but it'll look a lot more different later, when i'm done, adding a footer, redoing the typography etc
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KartikPrabhu xxcoeurxx: of course not claiming to be the first, just surprised that I have posts that are a year old :P
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KartikPrabhu and I still cite them
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xxcoeurxx KartikPrabhu: it wasnt a critique, it was an "i think this might tie into it" :p
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KartikPrabhu sure. opened in tab to read as soon as I am done with the extensive discussion in the logs
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jdp23 very impressive
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xxcoeurxx this was my try from last year at beginning to blog.. again http://journal.levenom.com/emergent/
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xxcoeurxx oh. that was neat.
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xxcoeurxx KartikPrabhu: love the footnote references.
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KartikPrabhu :D it is my science background at work :P
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xxcoeurxx haha it's a detail i like :)
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KartikPrabhu "140 characters? ARE YOU KIDDING ME, it’s not enough letters to convey anything but bare essentials." xxcoeurxx damn right, but others like tantek have more skill
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xxcoeurxx well information density is good, but not everyone speaks it.
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tantek I spend 22 of that 140 on a permashortcitation and intact text-retweetability.
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KartikPrabhu i mostly end up geting rid of most punctuation, which makes me feel icky
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I sympathize with your ick. I used to do much worse. Ahem: http://tantek.com/w/TxtShorthands
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KartikPrabhu eww
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xxcoeurxx ouwwww
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tantek The 140 char thing was cute for a while, but ends up encouraging trite conversation unfortunately. Happy to be able to post longer on my site, and just tune the first sentence or so for tweet POSSE copy.
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KartikPrabhu tantek: agreed.
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jdp23 i'm wrapping up for the night -- i'll sync up with kylewm and getting a Facebook invitation up etc. etc.
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KartikPrabhu jdp23++ for HWC organising
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Loqi jdp23 has 3 karma
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jdp23 !tell kylewm is there a good time to sync up on the HWC meeting? we need to pick a place etc. etc.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@kirilind RT @fdevillamil: Blog: If you still haven’t dropped Feedburner, this may convince you to do it. #indieweb https://t37.net/if-you-haven-t-dropped-feedburner-yet-this-mind-blowing-reason-will-convince-you-to-do-it.html http://t.… (twitter.com/_/status/518660639808823296)
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KevinMarks__ do emoji make 140 characters more expressive?
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@fdevillamil Very interesting. Huggin is a self hosted replacement to fit with a lot of available agents. #indieweb. https://github.com/cantino/huginn (twitter.com/_/status/518663653059727360)
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KevinMarks__ POSSEs to medium too
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KartikPrabhu just noticed that Medium has a "Response" button now
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KartikPrabhu so you can write a "story" in response to another one
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tantek KartikPrabhu - perhaps document on /Medium ?
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KartikPrabhu tantek: that seems like a morning task :P perhaps tomorrow
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tantek the implication being, if you POSSE a *reply* to Medium, that is also a reply *to* something on Medium, then you should do explicit POSSE threading there.
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KartikPrabhu exactly!
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tantek alright I'll start something
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KartikPrabhu cool. I'll add screenshots tomorrow
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tantek.com edited /Medium (+820) "add Features section, and POSSE example KevinMarks" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /rsvp (+701) "/* Publish an RSVP */ how to Multi RSVP" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /rsvp (+288) "/* Aaron Parecki */ Multi-RSVPs published since" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /rsvp (+381) "/* Tantek */ Multi-RSVPs published" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /multi-rsvp (+29) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /multirsvp (+29) "r" (view diff)
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tantek well that's multi-rsvp documented at least
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tantek what's multi-rsvp?
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tantek what is multi-rsvp?
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Loqi An RSVP is a type of post that is a reply to an event post http://indiewebcamp.com/multi-rsvp
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tantek.com edited /rsvp (+12) "make multi-reply support more obvious" (view diff)
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tantek well that's one more set of tabs processed and closed, and thus browser window closed
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tantek.com edited /database-antipattern (+43) "note documented with specific examples, as things should be" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /database-antipattern (+38) "/* community split */ specifically note split experience, rather than just opinion" (view diff)
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@bdubertret RT @fdevillamil: Very interesting. Huggin is a self hosted replacement to fit with a lot of available agents. #indieweb. https://t.co/yI5H0… (twitter.com/_/status/518681886940729344)
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tantek.com edited /database-antipattern (-47) "/* Alternatives */ see file-storage, instead of just one example of Falcon" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /file-storage (+23) "/* Tantek */ slight name of link change" (view diff)
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@ctof RT @fdevillamil: Very interesting. Huggin is a self hosted replacement to fit with a lot of available agents. #indieweb. https://t.co/yI5H0… (twitter.com/_/status/518689659158020096)
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Jeena This is an interesting point: "... new stuff can't happen in a silo." (via http://scripting.com/2014/10/04/#a1412451482 )
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xxcoeurxx Jeena: i believe he posted about the virtues of facebook not more than a week ago as well...
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Jeena I see
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Jeena hm the content on his website seems interesting
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KevinMarks__ http://feed.unmung.com/feed?feed=http%3A%2F%2Fscripting.com%2Frss.xml
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KevinMarks__ http://feed.unmung.com/ello?ello=d1
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@thierrymarianne RT @fdevillamil: Blog: If you still haven’t dropped Feedburner, this may convince you to do it. #indieweb https://t37.net/if-you-haven-t-dropped-feedburner-yet-this-mind-blowing-reason-will-convince-you-to-do-it.html http://t.… (twitter.com/_/status/518723183562592256)
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aaronpk_ whoa just noticed some weird things in my google search results
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aaronpk_ I think because I have rel=canonical on my post pointing to the wiki, google is showing the contents of the wiki in the summary
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aaronpk_ http://aaronparecki.com/uploads/coffee_-_Google_Search-20141005-065437.png
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thierry.marianne.weaving-the-web.org edited /IndieWebCampParis (-110) "/* removed item related to photowalk to keep it simple ^_^ */" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/rsvp/facebook/27301982/294885624030610/706759049 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-10-08-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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thierry.marianne.weaving-the-web.org edited /IndieWebCampParis (+4) "/* Replaced "people" with "organizers" */" (view diff)
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thierry.marianne.weaving-the-web.org edited /IndieWebCampParis (+0) "/* added capital letter */" (view diff)
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auli.haldjas.org edited /IndieWebCampParis (+373) "r" (view diff)
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auli.haldjas.org edited /IndieWebCampParis (-1) "c" (view diff)
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@hfusari Heading to #set again this morning #filming #webseries #GetSpy check out our page here https://m.facebook.com/getspyshow?ref=bookmark #indieweb #indiefilm CHEERS! (twitter.com/_/status/518776700398604288)
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aaronpk_ this was totally not what I was supposde to be doing right now, but now you can see all my posts from a specific day! http://aaronparecki.com/2014/09/10
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GWG Nice though
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GWG aaronpk_: How are you pebble posting exactly?
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GWG Or rather, what does the interface look like?
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aaronpk_ I should make a little video
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aaronpk_ that is related to what I am doing today. hopefully by the end of the day I will have enough done that I can video it
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aaronpk_ it'll be a good demo
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GWG What are you doing today?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "you doing today" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=you+doing+today
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aaronpk_ working on a new micropub demo app / pebble integration
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aaronpk_ it should make for a fun demo at IWC
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ben_thatmust unfortunately, due to time constraints i am working on the house this weekend. haven't gotten anything done :(\
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ben_thatmust Indieweb wise that is
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ben_thatmust well, that and designing a new biz card for myself. need to figure out how to get it in to a format printers can do.
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ben_thatmust i have it as a tiff, but previews show it pretty low quality for the text after it gets uploaded
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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ben_thatmust hi tbrun
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tbrun HI ben_thatmust
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ben_thatmust how are you today?
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tbrun I am relatively new to this and am building my web site that includes many of the pricipals of indieweb.
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ben_thatmust excellent!
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ben_thatmust if you have any questions at all feel free to ask
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tbrun Altough I am not a coder, I really appreciate the work that you folks are doing.
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ben_thatmust thanks. Theres a lot of people doing a lot of different things in here. Not everyone is a coder.
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tbrun On the indieweb site there are examples of people doing things like microformats. What is the policy about seeing what others have done and 'repurposing' them into my site
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ben_thatmust So what do you do?
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bret hey tbrun welcome! :)
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tbrun I have been an executive director of the local Habitat for Humanity, and now I am semi-retired and doing some statistics teaching at the college level, and doing some consulting to a startup.
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bret tbrun: by policy, do you mean licensing?
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ben_thatmust oh cool
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ben_thatmust as far as licensing it depends on the project really. don't be afraid to look at how people use microformats, its an open standard. so if it helps you learn, great
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bret everything on the wiki is CCv0 http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieWebCamp:Copyrights same for the microformats wiki http://microformats.org/wiki/Category:public_domain_license
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tbrun I don't think licensing is the right word. There are some folks that have done some interesting things on putting their personal info on their front pages, but in such a way as not to be easily scrapable by folks whose intent is suspicious. If I look at how they do it and copy it is that 'stealing'. I want to be a good member and not viewed as a thief
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bret tbrun: a few personal projects that people have been working on are not completely open source because the individuals don't want the overhead of dealing with open source project of the same scope as their full personal project, but those who do that have all open sourced parts of their own project
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bret others put everything out there for others to use too
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bret tbrun: its probably okay to follow the lead of interesting examples by others! But if you are worried, it never hurts to ask
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ben_thatmust somewhat regrets basing his code base off of opencart, i'm stuck opensource rather than going creative commons or public domain as i'd prefer
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tbrun It is not so much a project, it I see something I like, it is easy to view the source of the page. If I use that source as a basis for my site I would not be looking for anyone other than myself to maintain it.
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bret ben_thatmust: CC does not cover code very very well iirc
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ben_thatmust chances are that whoever's code you want to use is in this chat, or will be sometime today
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
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ben_thatmust good morning tantek
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GWG Good morning tantek
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tantek catches up on logs
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bret tbrun: I do that kind of thing all the time when I see something and wonder "how'd they do that!?"
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tantek the web was built from View Source, copy/paste
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tantek it's a fine tradition
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rascul.io edited /git (+66) "/* Software */ add gogs" (view diff)
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tbrun Being somewhat goal oriented, I have gone through the levels of idenfity, etc. on the site and am just trying to cover the bases moving up the levels. I don't want to re-invent the wheel, so if someone has a good way of presenting their identify, and it meets my needs is copying that format acceptable.
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tantek Jeena: still around? know about the #indiechat informal off-topic channel?
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ben_thatmust tbrun, i definately made some good use of open source libraries people in here have published
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ben_thatmust saved me lots of time
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bret tbrun: there is a decently complete set of wordpress plugins, and now the recently launched http://withknown.com that can get you a high level indieweb site. https://transmat.io is close to launching and a community member just started working full-time on http://homesteading.io Of course, if you are interested, even non-coders can get started on an
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bret indieweb site as a way to become a coder and get a rad personal site int the process
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bret tbrun:
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bret woops
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bret tbrun: a good first step is to get added to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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www.tombruning.com edited /IRC_People (+39) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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@backspaces The #IndieWeb is pretty important, Dan Gillmor has a good post on why: http://dangillmor.com/2014/04/25/indie-web-important/ (twitter.com/_/status/518798347277459456)
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bret.io edited /IRC_People (+9) "Fixed IRC tag" (view diff)
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bret tbrun++
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Loqi tbrun has 1 karma
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bret nice you got on the page! :)
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bret fixed the tag slightly for you
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www.tombruning.com created /User:Www.tombruning.com (+86) "Created page with "I am currently developing my own site : [http://www.tombruning.com link Personal site]"" (view diff)
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www.tombruning.com edited /User:Www.tombruning.com (-5) (view diff)
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tbrun Glad to be on the page, now to make some contribution to this....
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tantek.com edited /silo (+3919) "document New and Hip Silos separately from Popular, document Silo Innovations, Flexibility, User Innovations Inside Silos, move Cybe to a new Vaporware Silos section" (view diff)
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GWG Finally got around to adding two words to clarify something on my site after something someone said here.
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tantek.com edited /silo (+1) "move flexibility before innovation, quitting after issues" (view diff)
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bret.io edited /User:Bret.io (+0) "/* Events */ Fixed linky" (view diff)
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bret.io edited /User:Bret.io (+63) "/* Past experiments */ Added example" (view diff)
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tantek that's a serious bummer that Rabble restarted his blog but without archives of his old posts: http://anarchogeek.com/reviving-my-blog/ :(
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tantek he's even using WordPress which has some of the best importing functionality of anything out there
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tantek the old one was WordPress too: https://web.archive.org/web/20121004103321/http://anarchogeek.com/2012/07/09/origin-of-the-reply-digging-through-twitters-history/
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tantek so I really don't understand what happened.
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tantek GWG, any theories for why a WordPress user (looks like self-hosted) would update his wordpress and throwaway the history?
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GWG tantek: 2
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GWG 1. A deliberate decision
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GWG 2. He didn't keep up with updates and didn't want to go through the migration path
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GWG If he had an old version, it would be pre-export capability. It would have to be pretty ancient though
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GWG If he did, he'd have to...
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GWG 1. Upgrade incrementally to get to a version that supported export.
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GWG 2. Upgrade incrementally to get to the latest version
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GWG However, the archive.org version linked was from 3.4.2, which isn't that old
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GWG I once spent a long time getting a Wordpress 2.0 site to the modern era
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GWG So, other than losing the data somehow...
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GWG I can't think of a reason.
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tantek I'll ask him next time I see him. Still I find it disturbing from an indieweb perspective.
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tantek KevinMarks: at least one of the other cited history of the @-reply articles is still up: http://log.maniacalrage.net/post/26935842947/the-real-history-of-the-reply-on-twitter
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bear I did it once using brute force - dumped the database and then generated an import file from that
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GWG bear: Seems more likely a decision.
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bear sorry - was a sideways way of agreeing with your point of it could take a long time
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GWG bear: Still...I don't know the individual in question, but if they wanted the material, they would have tried.
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tantek Rabble is quite the smart guy, and developer as well, so I'm not sure what happened.
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tantek KevinMarks: I noticed in the comments on http://www.kevinmarks.com/twitterhatespeech.html there is the "noise" @-reply you replied to as making the point of your article.
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bret maybe an import will happen later
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bret or selectively
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tantek are you leaving it visible intentionally on your site? or no current way to delete/block comments ?
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tantek bret - indeed - I for one will encourage him to import
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tantek of course if he wasn't able to keep up with backing up his old WordPress's database...
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tantek darn, http://kellan.io/oldtweets appears to not be working any more (always empty results)
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tantek.com edited /silo (+780) "/* User Innovations Inside */ citations for @-reply, hashtag, retweet" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /selfdogfood (+0) "emojicon tweak" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ I'm using voxpelli's webmention tool, and it doesn't give options (also has repeated text from bridgy)
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KevinMarks_ Maybe I should try to fix it
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voxpelli KevinMarks_: Would be great if you added an issue in GitHub and I'll look into it when I have some time :)
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tantek is this a JS embed?
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tantek KevinMarks: once you *can* selectively delete/block noisy/abusive comments, then you can write *another* post documenting it!
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tantek and how you now have more control over your comments than the silos gave you
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tantek since you're using your own website
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tantek that kind of concrete example is very useful
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voxpelli The WebMentions from my tools are JS-embedded, yes – making it a bit trickier for others to add moderation :/
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tantek voxpelli: the JS could take a block-list as input: http://microformats.org/wiki/block-list
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voxpelli tantek: that would be an interesting solution, haven't thought of that
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aaronpk_ anomalily++ https://twitter.com/anomalily/status/518818036510625792
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@anomalily I admit I kind of miss when it was just hand-editing HTML pages uploaded via FTP to make websites. (twitter.com/_/status/518818036510625792)
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tantek.com edited /block (+404) "add brainstorming section" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ Heh, after last night's fight with blog editors I approve of that thought
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tantek voxpelli: for your consideration: http://indiewebcamp.com/block#Brainstorming
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tantek aaronpk, KevinMarks - perhaps there's a webby principle there
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tantek just as with web *browsers* we have the expectation of always being able to "View Source" ...
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tantek with web *editors* (CMS, publishing, etc.), we should always have the option of "Edit Source"
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KevinMarks_ That's what I switched to in known (and have always used in blogger)
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KevinMarks_ Ello let me paste in html source , but instantly wysiwyg'd it
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KevinMarks_ Medium I pasted in the rendered html, which works there
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tantek what is WYSIWYG?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "WYSIWYG" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=WYSIWYG
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@Eastmad Good summary of why twitter can get ugly by @kevinmarks http://www.kevinmarks.com/twitterhatespeech.html - and he slightly answers his own question with #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/518820073445015552)
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KevinMarks_ The twitter troll comment being propagated into my post is illustrative of the problem we need to handle
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tantek precisely!
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tantek and if you solve it, you can follow-up as such
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tantek it also points out that trolls come from all sides of a debate
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KevinMarks_ That isn't a real feminist, that's a redditer mocking their vocabulary
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tantek KevinMarks: and it's bad when one can't tell
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KevinMarks_ Where should I write up the manual POSSE and editor problems I found?
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tantek per silo
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tantek and per tool
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tantek document the == Issues == with Ello's editor on /Ello
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tantek document the behavior of the /Medium editor in an == Editor == section there
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tantek etc.
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tantek.com created /you_doing_today (+25) "r" (view diff)
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aaronpk_ I think bookmarks are now the easiest thing for me to create on my site
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aaronpk_ actually food/drink posts are close now that I can do it from my watch
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aaronpk_ follow along with my day today! http://aaronparecki.com/2014/10/05
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GWG aaronpk_: I like the icons
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ben_thatmust so is barnaby's plugin (and the greasemonkey script) the only ways to make use of webactions right now?
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GWG Still eager to see this
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aaronpk_ thanks!
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tantek ben_thatmust: not quite. see /indie-config
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tantek for the latest and greatest awesomeness - thanks to voxpelli
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tantek voxpelli++
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Loqi voxpelli has 10 karma
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tantek.com edited /block (+271) "/* Brainstorming */ minimum use-cases explicitly documented, and how behavior works to address them" (view diff)
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aaronpk_ is flickr support on the roadmap for bridgy?
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tantek what is a roadmap?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "roadmap" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=roadmap
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ben_thatmust need to link that on the /webactions
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aaronpk_ oh right I'm not supposde to say roadmap
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xxcoeurxx oh damn, just read the backlog.
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xxcoeurxx voxpelli++ indeed
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Loqi voxpelli has 11 karma
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xxcoeurxx voxpelli: hej btw
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voxpelli xxcoeurxx: hej hej :)
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tantek.com created /roadmap (+369) "stub with dfn debunk, alternatives, see also" (view diff)
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aaronpk_ feature request for the wiki: all edits should have a link to the IRC logs for the time of the edit
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tantek perhaps even to the specific utterance from Loqi *of* the edit.
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aaronpk_ allow me to rephrase... any plans for bridgy to support flickr comments?
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tantek aaronpk - Bridgy backfeed or Bridgy publish?
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aaronpk_ backfeed
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tantek here you go: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/225
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tantek looks more like an Itch than a Working On
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aaronpk_ not sure if removing the "maybe" is because it's a yes or a no
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tantek.com edited /bulshytt (+4) "linky" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - since the issue is still open, I interpret that as a yes.
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aaronpk_ true
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tantek whereas closing the issue without fixing would mean no.
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tantek aaronpk, re: view -> edit source https://twitter.com/t/status/518829386511163392
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@t @anomalily as browsers gave us View Source, perhaps publishing/editing tools should give us an option to Edit Source. (ttk.me t4YU1) (twitter.com/_/status/518829386511163392)
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tantek I've been fascinated by all the different approaches / opinions / desires for different post creating / editing interfaces / preferences / formats.
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tantek from full WYSIWYG, to plain text only, to markdown, to HTML
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xxcoeurxx you can pry markdown from my cold dead hands.
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tantek it seems every publishing tool makes very specific decisions about that
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tantek xxcoeurxx: which flavor? ;)
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@anomalily Whoa, leveling up in the #indieweb world: about to switch from PESOS to POSSE for @flickr because PESOS is failing me (twitter.com/_/status/518830141502685185)
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xxcoeurxx tantek: common/generic/non-gruberian ;)
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tantek xxcoeurxx: I certainly appreciate the desire to "just" be able to type plain(-ish) text and have it "just" work.
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xxcoeurxx bt seriously though, we see this every time there's a new tool on the market, its built on some quasi-greek logic through confirmation bias into "what the user wants" / "what the user needs"
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tantek yup
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xxcoeurxx i mean, i remember CamelCase. i was there man.
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tantek hence here in indieweb, we tell people to build the tool *they* want to use, not some mythological platonic ideal "user"
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xxcoeurxx but, wysiwyg, has its caveats, since most of the tools still to str/regexp.
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tantek see also http://indiewebcamp.com/antipatterns#mass_adoption
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xxcoeurxx and thus we get stuck with ugly cludgy html, like what KevinMarks___ ended up having in his post last night
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xxcoeurxx amen
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tantek I have yet to see a "good" WYSIWYG -> markup editing/publishing tool.
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notenoughneon.com edited /reader (+249) "/* IndieWeb examples */ add neonblog example" (view diff)
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xxcoeurxx tantek: same here.
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tantek emmak++ for using an integrated reader on her site!
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Loqi emmak has 7 karma
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xxcoeurxx tantek: i spent three months trying to sanitize the output of whatsitcalled again... really common rich text editor dropin
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tantek TinyMCE?
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xxcoeurxx thats the one
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shaners woof
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tantek what is TinyMCE?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "TinyMCE" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=TinyMCE
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xxcoeurxx "hairy kludge"
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tantek invites xxcoeurxx to start a stub page on /TinyMCE with that ;)
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www.levenom.com created /TinyMCE (+12) "Created page with "hairy kludge"" (view diff)
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tantek what is editing?
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Loqi http://indiewebcamp.com/editing
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www.levenom.com edited /TinyMCE (+123) (view diff)
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tantek hmm - not what I expected!
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xxcoeurxx o.O
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tantek what is an editor?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "editor" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=editor
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tantek ok I'll start something
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tantek what is creating?
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Loqi create in the context of the indieweb refers to the act of and UI for creating a new post http://indiewebcamp.com/creating
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xxcoeurxx what is love?
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Loqi "baby don't hurt me . . . " ♫ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhrBDcQq2DM http://indiewebcamp.com/love
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xxcoeurxx >_>
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xxcoeurxx naturally...
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shaners catching up on logs
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shaners DMed @rabble about bringing back his archives
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tantek shaners++
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Loqi shaners has 11 karma
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tantek.com created /editor (+276) "stub with dfn, software, see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /editor (+239) "may also refer to content editor or spec editor" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /editor (+579) "spectrum of approaches" (view diff)
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ben_thatmust is still trying to figure out indie-action setup
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ben_thatmust i have my config, and registered as handler, but links i wrap in the <action> tag still aren't working
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@xxcoeur66xx @Qeruiem okejrå, återgår till att hacka på #indieweb :p (twitter.com/_/status/518835856380264448)
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tantek ben_thatmust: <indie-action> tag
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ben_thatmust tried that too
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iamshane.com edited /TinyMCE (+265) "self description" (view diff)
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tantek anybody have *other* approaches to editing that what's in this list? http://indiewebcamp.com/editor#Approaches - or if someting there matches what your tool does, add yourself to the respective parenthetical list.
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shaners What is TinyMCE?
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Loqi TinyMCE is a javascript html wysiwyg editor http://indiewebcamp.com/TinyMCE
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tantek what is wysiwyg?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "wysiwyg" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=wysiwyg
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ben_thatmust is there some JS i need, i don't understand what the How to load someones indie-config si talking about at all
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tantek ben_thatmust: yes there are multiple scripts you need
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tantek check out http://indiewebcamp.com/indie-config#Pelle_Wessman - voxpelli still around?
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tantek.com edited /create (+325) "/* Jeremy Keith */ has iterated his creating UI" (view diff)
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xxcoeurxx interesting, ghost makes epiphany-browser choke.
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xxcoeurxx hello ancient bugzilla account, how i missed thee
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tantek what is epiphany-browser?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "epiphany-browser" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=epiphany-browser
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shaners Anyone in here with any Heroku + nginx config expericne? /cc aaronpk aaronpk_ et al
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aaronpk_ I don't really use heroku
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xxcoeurxx shaners what are you looking to do?
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xxcoeurxx because at openshifts free tier...
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shaners i have three apps: (let's say) feed, articles, notes.
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tantek what is an archive?
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Loqi archive may refer to: http://indiewebcamp.com/archive
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@kevinmarks @smc90 @t @anomalily for example, see the "corrections and improvements" link here http://www.kevinmarks.com/indiewebcampUK20140907.html (twitter.com/_/status/518839236292669440)
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xxcoeurxx shaners: aaah well then, go openshift and use the nodejs cartridge of theirs.
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shaners i want feed to accept all requests for my domain (i know how to do that), and then url map /articles to articles.herokuapp.com and /notes to notes.herokuapp.com
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xxcoeurxx hmm
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xxcoeurxx so its not a hosting but routing question.
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shaners correct
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@kevinmarks RT @anomalily: Whoa, leveling up in the #indieweb world: about to switch from PESOS to POSSE for @flickr because PESOS is failing me (twitter.com/_/status/518839577193086976)
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xxcoeurxx you can do that via nginx directives.
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shaners (there might be a little bit of host specific shit, but i'll burn that bridget when i get there)
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xxcoeurxx i dont know exactly line by line offhand though
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xxcoeurxx but i recall going over a similar idea.
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xxcoeurxx more on the cdn side.
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xxcoeurxx and found something shaners
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xxcoeurxx http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9168377/nginx-response-based-on-the-requested-header
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tantek.com edited /create (+566) "/* Jeremy Keith */ add his create UI iterations" (view diff)
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shaners thannks xxcoeurxx. i'll give that a look.
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xxcoeurxx np
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tantek I'm still impressed by adactio's pure HTML+CSS animated slider toggle made from only <span> wrapping a checkbox and <label> : http://jsbin.com/rugonu/6/edit <-- source and interactive
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tantek no JS needed
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aaronpk_ oh that's awesome
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tantek this in stark contrast to the what I would expect typical web dev to do with 1) include jQuery, 2) write a TON of jQuery code to make it work
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bret cyanogen is selling out http://news.slashdot.org/story/14/10/04/1835207/cyanogen-inc-turns-down-google-seeing-1-billion-valuation
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bret like bigtime
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shaners tantek: it changes colors, but does not animate for me. (In latest Safari on latest OS X)
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tantek it slides doesn' it?
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shaners nope
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tantek huh, another thing they broke in iOS8
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tantek like facetime: URLs
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bret :/
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tantek is still waiting for the non-beta actual bug fixed release
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shaners i'm on os x. not ios.
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tantek squints
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shaners hmm... not sliding in chrome either.
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shaners something is afoot (for me)
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tantek shaners - hmm - not in my OSX Safari either
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shaners maybe desktop Safari in Mavericks still needs the vendor prefix for transform:
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tantek.com edited /create (+160) "/* per silo POSSE toggles */ link to open source" (view diff)
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shaners -webkit-transform: translateX(1.8em);
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shaners makes it change position, but as a toggle. does not slide over.
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tantek shaners, pretty sure adactio uses iOS Safari and Chrome, and he showed it working to me. odd that iOS would have newer versions of those browsers?
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shaners ios has shipped an update to safari more recently than os x has.
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shaners yosemite will prolly catch it up
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shaners Apple seems to only ship major versions of Safari with OS X versions.
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tantek odd, I remember getting Safari updates independent of OSX updates (in Software Update)
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shaners yeah, but they're just bug fixes and security patches, i thought.
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tantek.com moved /editing to /how_to_edit_this_wiki "because "editing" has a more directly relevant to indieweb meaning"
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tantek.com edited /editing (+336) "stub with dfn, disambig, see also" (view diff)
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@bretolius @nicopolitan @thursdayschild On the webmention/brid.gy side, #indiewebcamp on Freenode IRC can help get you started (twitter.com/_/status/518844440220168192)
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GWG I have a question. I want to extend my rel-syndication link plugin to as many services as possible, as I want to redesign it to only activate the ones a site is using, instead of all. What services do people have rel-syndication links to? I have Twitter, Facebook, Google Plus, and Instagram right now
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aaronpk_ flickr, indienews, app.net, github
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tantek.com edited /Flickr (+396) "/* Issues */ PESOS unreliability with citation" (view diff)
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shaners GWG: twitter, medium, wordpress, tumblr, flickr, youtube, vimeo
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tantek.com edited /PESOS (+86) "/* Disadvantages */ less reliable e.g. Flickr" (view diff)
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GWG You can POSSE to Github?
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aaronpk_ sure why not?
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aaronpk_ I POSSE comments on issues
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GWG Also, re POSSEing to Youtube/Vimeo...is anyone hosting their own videos and copying to the service, or just embedding right now?
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tantek GWG http://indiewebcamp.com/GitHub#POSSE_to_GitHub
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GWG tantek: Until he mentioned it, I didn't think of comments.
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GWG Then the next question is...is anyone POSSEing WordPress to WordPress, as this is for a WordPress plugin?
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tantek GWG, meta point - for questions about a silo, check the silo's wiki page
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tantek e.g. re: GitHub, YouTube, Vimeo
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GWG tantek: The answer to my question is not on the YouTube page
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GWG Also, the WordPress question isn't precisely on there
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GWG People POSSE to WordPress, people POSSE from WordPress, but between WordPress sites...not sure if there is a use case
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tantek GWG - then you can add it (to the YouTube page) with what information you know
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tantek GWG you might POSSE from your own indie wordpress install to a previous wordpress.com account you were using (where people followed you)
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tantek bret: what does this mean? "will I miss PHP?" https://twitter.com/nicopolitan/status/518834036588822528
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@nicopolitan @bretolius @thursdayschild if I jump into this camp, will I miss php? (twitter.com/_/status/518834036588822528)
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bret tantek: ghost is written in javascript/node, and Nico looks like a php dev
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tantek bret++ for encouraging Ghost to adopt webmention
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bret tempted to note the php love by many members here
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Loqi bret has 30 karma
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tantek bret please do, cite http://indiewebcamp.com/PHP
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tantek not sure about "love" as much as "pragmatic use of"
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indie-visitor Well, the whole POSSE to Flickr situation is biting me in the butt
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indie-visitor Was trying to do it via IFTTT
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tantek oh dear indie-visitor - are you /nick anomalily?
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indie-visitor Turns out... then it turns the links into IFTTT links
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indie-visitor oh yeah. thought i did that
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@bretolius @nicopolitan @thursdayschild PS lots of love for (quality) php: http://indiewebcamp.com/PHP :) Still the fastest way to self host a website (twitter.com/_/status/518847171118895105)
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tantek or this might work better: indiewebcamp.com/irc/today?beta#bottom
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bret ifttt linx ewww
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anomalily Okay, so do I spend my day getting exobrain to work with POSSE to flickr because I am not willing to have IFTTT permalinks
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anomalily Oooooorrr hmm
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tantek anomalily: adactio has somehow gotten POSSE to Flickr working, as has Known
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tantek and maybe aaronpk / p3k too?
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aaronpk_ has not
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aaronpk_ maybe there is a wordpress plugin tho?
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aaronpk_ seems like something that should exist as a wordpress plugin
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@anomalily @pjf Hey, any existing uses of exobrain to POSSE wordpress/server to flickr? Turns out IFTTT turns it into their own links #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/518847768279154688)
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aaronpk_ sounds like a job for bridgy publish!
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tantek.com edited /Flickr (+128) "add POSSE to Flickr with indieweb examples" (view diff)
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aaronpk_ if bridgy were written in PHP I would actually be able to help with this
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aaronpk_ I'm so not willing to learn python
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anomalily But I want it *today* not when bridgy gets around to it ;)
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anomalily Yea, my python experience is about 10 years old now, not really very handy
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tantek perhaps at least file a Bridgy Publish issue?
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tantek https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/
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bret anomalily: are you running pif's exobrain?
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bret that thing is crazy cool
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/bretolius/518847171118895105/11628 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/PHP (webmention)
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GWG tantek: There's a use case. Although I'd just pick up and move myself. But since my goal is to make a menu of choices, and the rendering code is pretty duplicative, I'll add it.
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tantek what is exobrain?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "exobrain" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=exobrain
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bret i can stub a page later
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bret saw pif present on it at open source bridge
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GWG Try Nextscript Social Network Auto-Poster(SNAP), it says it does Flickr
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aaronpk_ !tell anomalily hi you'll get this message!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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bret aaronpk_: your IRC broken?
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aaronpk_ long story
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anomalily GWG: that looks perfect!
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Loqi anomalily: aaronpk_ left you a message 6 minutes ago: hi you'll get this message!
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anomalily Thanks!
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tantek.com edited /archive (+723) "add IndieWeb Examples section inspired by aaronpk getting it working for his site" (view diff)
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petermolnar aaronpk_ I'm syndicating to flickr from WordPress with SNAP
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aaronpk_ sweet! anomalily: ^
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GWG I just want to switch from SNAP to Bridgy.
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tantek petermolnar: could you add yourself and SNAP to http://indiewebcamp.com/Flickr#POSSE_to_Flickr
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petermolnar trying to, indiewebcamp is not logging me in at the moment
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tantek GWG could you file a Bridgy Publish issue requesting publish to Flickr support? https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/
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@anomalily @petermolnar @pjf Thanks! I just installed, trying to get it set-up now. Ideally, I can get webmentions too but that is a Big Project (twitter.com/_/status/518853006314328064)
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tantek.com edited /create (+175) "/* Aaron Parecki */ subdivide note and event" (view diff)
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aaronpk_ I just had a crazy idea to create an IRC server emulator that is actually a micropub client and indieweb reader
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anomalily aaronpk: Go back to work!
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aaronpk_ so that I can read things and create posts and replies from my IRC client
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aaronpk_ will defer on that til later :D
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tfontaine haha that would be pretty excellent.
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anomalily aaronpk: I think that is the definition of building for yourself rather than an ideal user.
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petermolnar.eu edited /Flickr (+105) "/* POSSE to Flickr */" (view diff)
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aaronpk_ I am OK with that :D
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tfontaine Any good projects working on getting WM into Ghost? I've been searching, but found little actual work being done. But a lot of "That would be awesome!"
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tantek aaronpk, similarly, I'm waiting to see bear build an XMPP server emulator that is actually a micropub client and indieweb reader so that he can read things and create posts and replies from his XMPP client.
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petermolnar.eu edited /Flickr (+58) "/* POSSE to Flickr */" (view diff)
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aaronpk_ yeah! that'd be sweet too
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GWG tantek: I don't use Flickr
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tantek GWG - sorry I misunderstood your statement re: SNAP in context of POSSE to Flickr
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bret tfontaine: not that I have seen! there is definitely been interest but I have not even see experiments yet
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petermolnar.eu edited /User:Petermolnar.eu (-164) (view diff)
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GWG tantek: I use SNAP for Twitter and Facebook, but I'd like to switch them to Bridgy Publish, as Bridgy supports both.
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bret tfontaine: a quick way to get started would be something like https://webmention.herokuapp.com where display is dynamic and you host the content in a separate system
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tantek !tell bear http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-10-05#t1412539342956 ;)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG SNAP does a lot, but its messy
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tantek what is SNAP?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "SNAP" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=SNAP
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bret tfontaine: which is actually a common ghost method.... thats how people do diqus and discourse comments iirc
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tfontaine Bret, That's kind of what I was thinking. Without the API, it'd have to rely on something ELSE with an API we could hook into with some javascript.
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tfontaine Yeah, exactly.
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petermolnar messy is a kind word for that
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tfontaine Heh. Indeed.
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bret webmention is an extremely simple post request handler... with recommendations on how to display the incoming notification data.
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bret tfontaine: are you familiar with pingback?
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GWG tantek: The plugin is called Nextscript Social Network Auto Poster...I'm not sure it needs a page per se
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GWG Putting it under SNAP seems confusing...as that is a common acronym
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tfontaine Yeah. A good friend of mine has webmention all setup. I've looked at his code a little.
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Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/bookmarks/2014/10/05/3/irc-indieweb-p3k linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-10-05/line/1412539232299 (webmention)
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aaronpk_ yes I did just bookmark my own IRC utterance so that it shows up in my day permalink http://aaronparecki.com/2014/10/05
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KevinMarks___ Gwg I POSSEd to known, blogger, ello, medium and twitter
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KevinMarks___ Mostly by hand
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bret webmention is a ping back without the xmlprc stuff, and is paired with a website that has been marked up microformats. The microformats allows the receiving site to parse the mentioning site for a json version of the page, and lets it display replies, comments, reply-context in any way they wish to choose.
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bret this allows people to have twitter style conversations displayed across different website implementations without a central server, manifesto or complicated protocol implementations
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GWG KevinMarks___: My plugin is best designed for by handers. It adds the boxes for the URLs. So you've proved my use case
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KevinMarks___ Wondering if I should POSSE to WordPress too
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KevinMarks___ Though POSSE to techcrunch has worked well before
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tantek KevinMarks_: wordpress.com?
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tantek did you Bridgy backfeed techcrunch comments back to your original post?
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petermolnar KevinMarks___ you don't have anything against medium and it's shady terms & conditions on the content you post?
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KevinMarks___ I suppose I should just put a cc notice on
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tantek.com edited /Medium (-2) "fix heading level" (view diff)
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KevinMarks___ Techcrunch comments are in some silo or other
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tantek KevinMarks if you have advice for POSSEing to Medium, please add it in the main section here: http://indiewebcamp.com/Medium#POSSE (like same paragraph as "It is possible…")
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petermolnar tantek medium is manual only I'm afraid
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kartikprabhu.com edited /editor (+47) "/* Approaches */ added Bundle to list" (view diff)
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petermolnar.eu edited /editor (+9) "/* Approaches */" (view diff)
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@DappFund RT @tomstandage: Late to this, but glad to learn from @dangillmor of IndieWeb, which aims to "re-decentralise the web": http://t.co/HP3HSxu… (twitter.com/_/status/518862005349126145)
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@caseorganic Waited until last moment to check into my flight to Boston for #cyborgcamp + #indiewebcamp. Last row of the plane! Actually kind of excited. (twitter.com/_/status/518864330863816704)
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bret given the already high workload in writing an article worth anyones time, manual posse isn't the worst thing ever.... but automation trumps manual
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bret https://www.loomio.org/d/HufK4NE8/fixing-federation Diaspora discussing their federation strategy
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xxcoeurxx bret: excellent, shall we give them options?
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bret heh, would be happy see diaspora made indieweb friendly, but their discussions have not been all that welcoming
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bret seems their primary focus is getting diaspora to work between "pods"
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xxcoeurxx bret: oh.. :/
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xxcoeurxx silos </3
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bret i have not put much energy forth.. would rather work on getting indieweb talking to pump.io servers
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xxcoeurxx oooer
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xxcoeurxx yes me too :D
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bret evan hasn't had much time to discuss it though.
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bret afaikt pump works like diaspora, and is easier to self host. could be totally wrong though, never actually tried to run a diaspora pod
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bret xxcoeurxx: you run ghost yeah? may be others with similar goals: https://twitter.com/thursdayschild/status/518592596848181250
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@thursdayschild @nicopolitan My biggest Ghost thing now is comments. Disqus and Muut work, but I don't like either. I'd like to integrate Webmention, though (twitter.com/_/status/518592596848181250)
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xxcoeurxx well there's always this that could be packaged into an easy to install format: https://t.co/kBJNK7Q9Sn by @ummjackson on twitter
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xxcoeurxx bret: thanks for the heads up :D
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@xxcoeur66xx @thursdayschild @nicopolitan hey join #indieweb on freenode, i'm about to start hacking on webmentions :) (twitter.com/_/status/518872730037653505)
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bret xxcoeurxx: tfontaine already made here today
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xxcoeurxx aaah
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xxcoeurxx didnt know that bret :)
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bret hehe
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xxcoeurxx also am, again, running an 32h cycle, and counting haha
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xxcoeurxx i'm barely coherent atm :p
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bret yikes! get some sleep
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xxcoeurxx i've tried two times.
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xxcoeurxx had to do a deep backgroundcheck for moneys and then i had an itch to research :p
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@anomalily Pretty darn cool to see SNAP POSSE to Facebook, with bridgy then grabbing the comments/likes. <3 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/518882225173966848)
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tantek GWG , the reason to create a /SNAP page with simple definition/summary is to also put a place for IndieWeb Examples of people using it - so others who come by can see if it's worth trying out, and who to ask
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tantek e.g. ^^^
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GWG tantek: How about Wordpress/SNAP
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tantek hierarchies--
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Loqi hierarchies has -1 karma
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aaronpk_ what is snap?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "snap" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=snap
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xxcoeurxx what is SNAP?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "SNAP" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=SNAP
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xxcoeurxx hmm
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tantek GWG - per WIkipedia, hierarchy is not how to do disambiguation for wiki pages.
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GWG Ok
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bret i18n has to be the worst name
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aaronpk_ why? at least it's googleable
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bret true
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tantek bret - I'll see your i18n and raise you l10n
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bret i just love working on i18n and l10n
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bret looks like l33t speak
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bret aaronpk_: as generic terminology it isn't obvious what it means unless you are told. i guess thats my only objection to it.
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gRegor` Ello, tfontaine
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tfontaine Hey, gRegor
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gRegor` Have webmention set up in Ghost yet?
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tfontaine Oh, yeah. Took 5 mins. :P
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gRegor` tfontaine: If you can easily add rel="me" to your twitter link, you could sign in to the wiki and add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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tantek.com moved /2014/Cambridge_Schedule to /2014/Cambridge/Schedule "event nesting for auto-breadcrumbs"
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gRegor` xxcoeurxx: Were you also working on webmention support in Ghost?
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tantek.com edited /2014/Cambridge/Schedule (+722) "fix location, MIT stata center (never was at Media Lab)" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2014/Cambridge (+28) "/* RSVP */ add Lanyrd" (view diff)
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tmar.io moved /User:Thierry.marianne.weaving-the-web.org to /User:Tmar.io "Shorten personal domain name"
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tmar.io edited /IndieWebCampParis (-29) "/* Organizers */" (view diff)
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tantek thierrymarianne: welcome!
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tantek thierrymarianne: add yourself with your fancy new shorter personal URL to https://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people so you show up nice in the logs!
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xxcoeurxx gRegor`: yep started looking into it last night
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gRegor` Cool. tfontaine (@thursdayschild) is my friend that was in here just a bit ago. He's also interested in getting it set up. But he's gone again, heh.
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xxcoeurxx dang, i was doing some node stuff, i'll be in tomorrow as well, how about we look into it then?
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thierrymarianne Thank you!
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aaronpk_ oh you guys
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gRegor` I make the really important wiki edits.
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tmar.io edited /User:Tmar.io (-39) "Updated tmar.io user page" (view diff)
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tantek nicely done thierrymarianne http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-10-05/line/1412550648282
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tantek now add an avatar for yourself too (same irc template to edit - see others)
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tmar.io edited /IRC_People (+47) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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thierrymarianne It is so nice so see changes in real time and everything in sync with this IRC channel :)
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KevinMarks__ e-fail for tantek: http://calnewport.com/blog/2014/10/04/how-we-sent-a-man-to-the-moon-without-e-mail-and-why-it-matters-today/
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GWG Anyone available for some PHP advice on my coding?