2014-10-06 UTC
# 00:00 GWG I learned to program with C, later C++ and I'm afraid I don't always remember what I learned in college.
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# 00:14 bret working with mathpunk on installing ghost right now actually
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# 01:12 GWG How do you 'wonk' about transportation?
# 01:13 GWG I should ask. I am not sure what is meant
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# 01:17 GWG aaronpk_: Thank you. Was wondering about that
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# 01:18 GWG anomalily: Was just speaking of you.
# 01:22 aaronpk_ I built a microformats parser into the layout so that each page renders a microformat-parsed version of itself and it's pretty much the best thing ever
# 01:22 carmen which part. the quine-recursion part
# 01:23 GWG aaronpk_: What are you doing with all these metrics?
# 01:24 aaronpk_ I'm pretty bad at actually doing things with them right now
# 01:24 GWG Can I expect a graph of your mimosa intake?
# 01:24 GWG How about mimosa vs coffee intake, plotting over a series of dys?
# 01:26 GWG aaronpk_: I'm wondering what the endgame is. Collecting data is interesting, but I always wonder about using it
# 01:26 GWG Also still curious about the Pebble thing. It is giving me ideas before seeing it, which is probably good
# 01:27 aaronpk_ take a look at pebble.js, they have a new SDK you can write apps in javascript so you don't have to do a bunch of C memory management
# 01:27 GWG aaronpk_: I never learned JS. I should though.
# 01:27 GWG I learned Pascal. It hasn't helped me in years
# 01:28 GWG I did learn C and C++ on my own in high school
# 01:28 GWG By the time I got to college it was all Java
# 01:28 GWG And then I sort of pretend I know PHP
# 01:30 GWG aaronpk_: I'm just wondering...the MicroPub client...is it canned responses or are you trying to write on a Pebble?
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# 01:31 shaners If I'm rolling an experimental mf2, should I do something like: h-hs-foo or h-hs-foo or h-x-foo?
# 01:31 shaners Experimental meaning, i'm using it and no one else is yet.
# 01:46 KartikPrabhu shaners: if you only intend to use it internally rhen *-hs-* would be good, else if it could be useful for others but still experimental then *-x-*
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# 02:31 aaronpk_ <pre><?= json_encode(Mf2\parse($html), JSON_PRETTY_PRINT) ?></pre>
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# 02:54 aaronpk_ so Jawbone uses the generic "had" rather than "ate" or "drank"
# 02:55 aaronpk_ I kind of like the separation of the third-person text from the beverage name
# 03:00 aaronpk_ I've been trying to figure out what to do with mine too
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# 03:22 aaronpk_ boy do I have a surprise coming for y'all this weekend!
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# 03:31 tantek aaronpk - you've built so many amazing things, that I hesitate to guess at what *you* could consider such a surprise that you're unreasonably excited about it
# 03:32 aaronpk_ I am hoping to make a point important enough that someone else can document it ;)
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# 03:39 aaronpk_ anomalily is kicking butt on her site with microformats!
# 03:43 aaronpk_ she posted an event on her wordpress site (as a wordpress post!) with h-event markup, then manually POSSE'd to facebook and is getting bridgy rsvps!
# 03:44 aaronpk_ interesting, wordpress is catching some of the bridgy "invite" posts as spam!
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# 03:48 Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
# 03:50 indie-visitor Hey, anyone have trouble with Bridgy getting replies caught in spam in mass? Is there a way to write a rule in wordpress spam
# 03:51 snarfed are you using the semantic-linkbacks plugin? a recent version? i *think* it should skip the spam filter
# 03:52 anomalily ...sorry, that was me as indie-visitor, apparently I had IRC open in two tabs
# 03:52 anomalily 95% of them are skipping spam, but I just did a HUGE event invite and now all the "is invited" are getting caught in spam
# 04:01 snarfed anomalily: and this is akismet flagging them as spam?
# 04:02 snarfed anomalily: if so, i guess i'm not surprised. it's being aggressive, but that's probably intentional. maybe file a semantic-linkbacks or webmention plugin feature request to disable spam checking on webmention comments?
# 04:02 snarfed (that's debatable, of course. maybe a user option)
# 04:07 anomalily It IS public!
# 04:07 anomalily But I don't see it there either
# 04:08 anomalily I think it is akismet. I essentially want to figure out if I can write a rule that approves/marks as "not spam" everything from brid-gy
# 04:08 anomalily (in the url)
# 04:08 tantek anomalily - excellent progress you're making with your WordPress setup!
# 04:09 tantek indeed - is there no way to give akismet a URL whitelist?
# 04:09 tantek as one would add an address to their email program to not consider spam?
# 04:10 anomalily tantek: thanks! Yea, I am totally spending the last day of my maniac weekend doing stuff with my website instead of my day job. Oops
# 04:15 anomalily snarfed: Hey, what does Bridgy do with wordpress URL redirects?
# 04:16 snarfed it always follows all redirects for both original post links and publish source urls, if that helps...?
# 04:17 anomalily So it will find RSVPs on facebook if it's a redirect link?
# 04:17 anomalily The original URL didn't contain the "ue" for the umlauts in frühstück and I want to fix it ;)
# 04:17 anomalily ...but not if it breaks webmentions
# 04:19 snarfed should be ok. "final" redirect end urls are cached temporarily, but if that makes any wms fail, they'll retry until the cache expires
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# 05:00 snarfed aaronpk_: agreed. the semantic-linkbacks plugin can be flaky, depending on the version and other factors i don't entirely understand
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# 05:08 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 05:12 tantek KartikPrabhu: when did you implement your archive view?
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# 05:42 aaronpk_ this is fascinating... "stopping drinking coffee significantly reduced the emotional sense of urgency to respond instantly to every email/phonecall..."
# 05:42 tantek and if you read his post carefully - there's something I had long forgotten about
# 05:42 aaronpk_ ha "Actually, authoring XML by hand is already pretty hard. "
# 05:43 tantek authored in 2003, and with some additional forensics in the source, apparently on 2003-06-08
# 05:51 KartikPrabhu tantek: I don't even recall when I made the archive view, one of the first things I did on my site
# 05:52 KartikPrabhu someone should send an encouraging reply to @robynover I might not be the right person as I dn't understand the whole "not the right fit" thing
# 05:53 KartikPrabhu tantek: ha! was pretty much a n00b at that point to have commit logs :P
# 05:53 tantek KartikPrabhu: I do static snapshots with -YYYY-DDD suffixes :)
# 06:04 anomalily ^I totally responded to robynover hoping that the other-queer-lady angle would be encouraging
# 06:25 tantek aaronpk: fascinating that being a *developer* posed the question of whether it was redundant!
# 06:25 tantek whereas others have said, I'm *not* a developer, do I belong?
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# 06:36 shaners Is anyone posting photos/videos/audios(?) with a mf2 other than h-entry?
# 06:37 shaners I mean, has anyone moved hMedia into mf2-land as h-media?
# 06:38 aaronpk_ I haven't gone down that road yet because h-entry describes my current photo posts better right now. once I (eventually) have all my flickr photos on my site I suspect those will be better as h-media posts
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# 06:42 shaners aaronpk_ actually, now that i look at it again / deeper, h-entry has way more usefullness than the old hmedia.
# 06:42 aaronpk_ tantek: do we have an algorithm to find a representative h-card from a person's home page?
# 06:42 tantek shaners - in practice hMedia never found any interesting consuming applications, so it didn't get moved forward to microformats2
# 06:42 shaners only rel-enclosure would be nice to see added to h-entry as u-enclosure.
# 06:43 shaners otherewise, you're right, hmedia isn't much interesting
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# 06:47 tantek KevinMarks: how are you representing podcasts in h-entry in unmung?
# 06:47 tantek (which is why I assume shaners is asking about enclosure)
# 06:47 tantek shaners, basically, any classic microformat that has no consuming applications got dropped.
# 06:48 tantek and only those with publicly visible / useful consuming applications got upgraded to microformats2, and even those had every property scrutinized.
# 06:49 tantek aaronpk uid match is a requirement to avoid false positives
# 06:51 tantek now that I've answered the prior art question - let me ask the use-cse
# 06:51 Loqi tantek meant to say: now that I've answered the prior art question - let me ask the use-case
# 06:51 tantek aaronpk, what's your use-case to find a representative h-card from a person's home page?
# 06:51 aaronpk_ after signing in with indieauth, finding the person's name and profile image
# 06:54 aaronpk_ but i'm in php land right now, adding it to indieauth-client-php
# 06:54 aaronpk_ this is part of bypassing a "signup" flow and just pulling info from the person's home page cause it should already be there
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# 06:56 tantek aaronpk - good. a more common use case would be when writing a blog post and entering a URL for a person, having their photo and name be auto-filled from their h-card on their site
# 06:56 aaronpk_ that is actually different, because in that case you're looking for the representative h-card for an h-entry
# 06:57 tantek no you're linking to their home page (" URL for a person" )
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# 06:59 aaronpk_ barnaby doesn't have u-uid on his p-author property of the feed
# 06:59 tantek aaronpk - that wouldn't make sense - that would turn the p-author into a unique ID for the feed
# 07:00 aaronpk_ ok right. but that's the only h-card on barnaby's home page
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# 07:01 aaronpk_ so how does barnaby indicate that that specific h-card is the representative h-card for his home page?
# 07:01 shaners KartikPrabhu what happens to podcasts with video enclosures instead of audio?
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# 07:03 KartikPrabhu hasn't come across any video "podasts" except on silos like Youtube or Vimeo
# 07:04 aaronpk_ tantek: how would a "url" property of an h-card be potentially ambiguous?
# 07:05 tantek whereas only the first u-uid value makes sense, it's like a canonical
# 07:06 tantek no way to guess which of those is the real thing
# 07:06 Loqi tantek meant to say: no way to guess which of those is the canonical thing
# 07:06 aaronpk_ when would this fail? "The first h-card found which has a "url" property whose value is the url of the page."
# 07:06 tantek shaners - try putting its feed through unmung, and view source
# 07:07 tantek and if h-cards for the authors all included that URL as one of their URLs
# 07:08 tantek as people do (these are the URLs I contribute to)
# 07:08 aaronpk_ can u-uid be used to disambiguate in that specific case then? but not be required to find an h-card for a page?
# 07:09 tantek it has to be required or else too easy to get a false positive
# 07:09 tantek in the group blog case - *there is no representative h-card* that's the point
# 07:09 tantek since no one is going to claim the group blog as their own canonical URL, that works
# 07:09 aaronpk_ (or maybe there is a separate h-card which is the blog info, like blog icon and name and such)
# 07:10 aaronpk_ ok that makes sense but I'm not seeing a good solution to this right now
# 07:10 tantek and *then* you're looking for some notion of "representative object"
# 07:10 cweiske aaronpk, how's federated indieauth on indieauth.com coming along?
# 07:10 shaners looks like unmung doesn't do anything with video enclosures
# 07:10 aaronpk_ how does barnaby make his site work with the representative h-card algorithm as it currently is described?
# 07:11 tantek shaners - sounds like you could/should !tell Kevinmarks a feature request for unmung
# 07:11 tantek aaronpk - he adds explicit u-uid markup to the URL that is his home page
# 07:12 tantek on p-author it would be wrong because that's inside the h-feed
# 07:12 shaners !tell Kevinmarks Seems like unmung doesn't do anything with video enclosures on video podcasts. Maybe add those with a .u-video class? Eg: http://putthison.com (link in sidebar)
# 07:12 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 07:12 tantek but clearly he has a u-url of waterpigs.co.uk inside his h-card already
# 07:13 tantek so he just needs to *also* markup that *one* u-url with u-uid
# 07:13 tantek I don't see what the problem is you're seeing
# 07:13 aaronpk_ ok I thought that is what I asked before and you said it wouldn't work
# 07:14 tantek because p-author is a property of h-feed in that case
# 07:15 tantek aaronpk - it's likely just finding *an* h-card
# 07:15 tantek which, as I pointed out, will fail for group blogs
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# 07:16 tantek so it's not impelmenting representative h-card at all
# 07:18 aaronpk_ ok I'll make this follow the u-uid rule and it will definitely fail on people's websites until they add u-uid somewhere. i'll try to add a debugging step to help
# 07:19 tantek right - that debugging step should be fixing the existing validator - indiewebify.me - as the issue you filed
# 07:31 Loqi KevinMarks_: shaners left you a message 19 minutes ago: Seems like unmung doesn't do anything with video enclosures on video podcasts. Maybe add those with a .u-video class? Eg: http://putthison.com (link in sidebar)
# 07:33 tantek KevinMarks - it might not be a page about a person\
# 07:33 tantek in which case there is zero representative h-card - that's the point of explicit u-uid
# 07:34 cweiske aaronpk_, how's federated indieauth on indieauth.com coming along?
# 07:35 aaronpk_ cweiske: haven't made any additional progress, but it's really close
# 07:35 tantek KevinMarks: nope, not hypothetical, plenty of product pages, recipe pages, post permalink pages
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# 07:35 tantek none of those are about a person nor have a *representative* h-card
# 07:39 KartikPrabhu from what I recall, representative hcard algo is for finding the h-card once you are already on a person's page, not for finding h-card of the author from a post page for instance
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# 07:42 shaners KevinMarks: I don't think you should bother with rel-enclosure. But maybe a .p-x-enclosure class? Since mf2 moved away from rels for most thigs that classes can do.
# 07:42 tantek KartikPrabhu: hence my request for specific use-cases - to disambiguate/clarify if someone is asking for the wrong plumbing for their use-case
# 07:43 tantek shaners - what's the use-case you're trying to solove with p-x-*?
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# 07:44 shaners i think .p-enclosure should exist on h-entry to be explicit about what a feed reader should download as the enclosure. but it's not part of the h-entry spec (yet). so it goes under the experiment prefix, right?
# 07:45 tantek if your indie web site is your reader - where is it downloading to?
# 07:46 KevinMarks__ I set preload=false to stop them all being downloaded in this case ('cos crashing browsers is bad)
# 07:47 tantek right - thus I think explicit download instructions like that might be the wrong approach
# 07:47 shaners I'm moving my atom feed away from being separately generated to being generated from the html itself.
# 07:47 tantek a-ha - thus your use-case is generating an atom feed
# 07:47 shaners i want to be able to unabiguously know what is the enclosure (in old atom/rss parlance) from the html
# 07:48 tantek why not propagate all u-photo u-audio u-video from the h-entry into "enclosures" in Atom?
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# 07:48 tantek in your code that generates the Atom from the h-entry
# 07:50 tantek going to stick with that recommendation for tonight
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# 07:50 tantek rather than any additional work of having to markup enclosure explicitly
# 07:50 shaners that feels presumptious / overly aggressive. but i'll sleep on it. it's late.
# 07:51 tantek right - me too (will sleep on it). night night.
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# 07:55 aaronpk_ oh no, now it's breaking when the URL I enter is actually a 301 redirect
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# 07:57 KevinMarks__ I told benwerd to go have a drink with benward because they have a short edit distance - I think they got on
# 08:00 KevinMarks__ I'm taking content, which is boilerplate, but hte summary has more text
# 08:01 KevinMarks__ hm, that code is a mess -clearly I wrote the first verison while very tired
# 08:22 Loqi shaners meant to say: goodnight everyone
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# 11:47 GWG Except for those for which it is afternoon or evening.
# 11:49 GWG cweiske: You can't please everyone
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# 12:30 petermolnar I have a question on u-in-reply-to and the similar: can that be within e-content or it's a strict thing to put it out of e-content?
# 12:33 barnabywalters petermolnar: consider how the reply would look as a comment on a post, or in a feed reader. If it makes sense to have the link in the content as displayed that way, then it’s fine
# 12:35 petermolnar ok; the main reason I asked because I'm trying to reduce the amount of per article metadata attached to an entry on my site
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# 12:52 loic_m aaronpk> I'll be at border-none next week, would be nice to meet you :)
# 12:55 jonnybarnes barnabywalters: hey, remember your article on HTTPS and you mentione alpower.com as working in browsers but not in guzzle?
# 12:57 GWG petermolnar: When I tried to put it inside when working on the Indieweb Taxonomy plugin, it seemed to cause trouble for some parsing, as I recall.
# 13:02 GWG petermolnar: I went around it by offering a content filter that can be turned on, and I'm going to change the alternate placement to custom by theme.
# 13:03 GWG So, if you want to put it outside the e-content, you have to support that in the theme. If not, you have an option for putting it in the content filter
# 13:03 GWG I need to submit a pull request to SemPress for that, actually. It's on my list
# 13:04 Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
# 13:04 GWG I just think pfefferle is pretty busy of late
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# 13:22 GWG petermolnar, what are you planning?
# 13:22 petermolnar nothing special at all, but I do getting a bit tired of WordPress itself with all the hacks I need to put in place for it to work and look like I want it so
# 13:23 petermolnar so at the moment, I've already remove as much meta entries as I could and put them into the content
# 13:23 petermolnar but I'm still struggling with a few thing, like the replies and so, where and how to put that
# 13:23 petermolnar no, as in link for link format, quote source for quote format, etc
# 13:24 petermolnar I wanted something very flexible about half a year ago and I ended up with a shattered mess :D
# 13:24 GWG petermolnar, have you tried my taxonomy plugin for responses? It might work for you?
# 13:26 petermolnar I've checked it, but I'm not sure I need it that way; it's a nice plugin though
# 13:28 GWG I have realized that a custom taxonomy is the alternative to trying to use post formats for that
# 13:29 GWG That was the aspect I was suggesting
# 13:31 barnabywalters jonnybarnes: even if the PR doesn’t get merged (which would surprise me) that code could be wrapped up as a Guzzle plugin
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# 14:17 ben_thatmustbeme been looking at this whole indie-config bit. seems pretty interesting. I'm surprised there isn't a better way to do it though
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# 14:36 aaronpk_ jonnybarnes: does shaaaaaaaaaaaaa.com request the proper cert using SNI?
# 14:36 jonnybarnes aaronpk_ I beleive so, it runs `openssl s_client -connect domain.com:443 -servername domain.com` to get the certs
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# 14:37 aaronpk_ it says the cert for this new site is not sha256, but ssllabs.com says it is
# 14:40 aaronpk_ but it is technically possible to serve different content
# 14:40 aaronpk_ anyway worth raising those issues on the microformats wiki probably
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# 14:44 ben_thatmustbeme apparently if you have a field display=none, it doesn't submit the data from it, but it will still submit a blank entry (overridding previous filled ones)
# 14:45 aaronpk_ oh yeah I had something similar happen yesterday with html form
# 14:50 gRegor` aaronpk_: Thanks! The archive view is inspired by tumblr.
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# 17:00 gRegor` Morning, jdp23
# 17:02 jdp23 manual POSSEing from known to ello (or PESOSing the other way around) requires some editing HTML to make it look good ...
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# 17:23 jdp23 good suggestion tantek. i'll work on a longer post later ...
# 17:30 jonnybarnes right, working on authorship algo for my webmentions parser and was looking at shrewdness, but I'm wondering if I've mucked up my own notes
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# 17:31 jonnybarnes yes I have I think, tantek's h-card shouldn't have a "p-author" should it?
# 17:44 ben_thatmustbeme as well as it really should be extended with some way to tell the code how to tell the editor to route back to where it left off
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# 17:47 ben_thatmustbeme what sounds better microedit or pubedit for my micropub editor that i'm going to just break off in to its own small lib
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# 17:49 gRegor` ben_thatmustbeme: combine them. editedit :)
# 17:49 jonnybarnes you've included startssl's bundle, do you really need all those CRLs at the end?
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# 17:50 barnabywalters jonnybarnes: TBH I have no idea what they are. I just took the mozilla bundle and added the StartSSL certs. It worked, I didn’t look much closer :)
# 17:51 jonnybarnes particularly because he said in the next release of guzzle he won't be bundling any certs with guzzle
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# 19:00 GWG I am pleased that your life force continues.
# 19:02 Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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# 19:03 GWG I am starting to feel my vision and programming ability are mismatched
# 19:04 GWG I think I need to improve some of my knowledge
# 19:05 GWG I meant specifically web programming.
# 19:05 GWG I actually know little about Javascript and half the web uses it now.
# 19:05 ben_thatmustbeme i figure there is always more to learn in tech, no matter who you are. One of the main reasons I try to make sure every job I get is a slightly different area than the last
# 19:06 ben_thatmustbeme GWG, i found it easier to learn JS with jQuery to begin. I think its a bit easier to pick up
# 19:06 tantek GWG - there's *very little* you "need" JS for.
# 19:07 tantek you can turn JS off and my site functions just fine for example - all functionlity
# 19:07 Loqi tantek meant to say: you can turn JS off and my site functions just fine for example - all functionality
# 19:07 tantek GWG it is actually more important to learn how to make your site work *without* JS, than it is to learn JS>
# 19:07 Loqi tantek meant to say: GWG it is actually more important to learn how to make your site work *without* JS, than it is to learn JS.
# 19:08 GWG ben_thatmustbeme, since I am working with Wordpress, PHP and CSS improvements.
# 19:09 GWG I know both, but need to improve.
# 19:10 GWG ben_thatmustbeme, too many cooks?
# 19:10 tantek GWG - my first suggestion is to add a new section to your user page, "Working On" which is very *present* focused, as in what are the few (just 2-3 to start with) things you are thinking about and actively working on right now
# 19:11 GWG tantek, I had some thoughts this week on refining.
# 19:11 tantek even just start a "Working On" section with *one* item
# 19:12 ben_thatmustbeme i don't think i'm going to have time for all the fun stuff i was hoping to get done in time for IWC
# 19:12 tantek GWG - I'm trying to help with the problem of "feeling frustrated"
# 19:12 tantek what if before you jump to something, you made yourself update the "Working On" section on your user page to put that thing on the top of the list?
# 19:13 ben_thatmustbeme GWG, one thing that helped me was having my ToDo list, much more detailed. even though it made this list go from like 5 to 30 items, getting things checked off really felt good
# 19:14 GWG Right now, fixing the three plugins that I feel are held together with Chicken wire
# 19:14 GWG I need to rewrite sections of code that are long sets of nested conditionals
# 19:16 GWG I need to remove a bad decision that I made and decide on the right one
# 19:16 GWG It is mostly the long set of nested if statements that makes me think that there is a better way.
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# 19:20 GWG So it comes to me having an idea of what is wrong, but needing missing knowledge to write the improvement.
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# 19:22 GWG davidmead, I think I understand what you want.
# 19:25 GWG I am going to go back to work. I will be on later contemplating my spaghetti code.
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# 20:06 bret kylewm: I'm with you on reply context
# 20:08 tantek bret - don't you mean your xml feed needs some auto-generation?
# 20:09 bret the auto generator is badly implemented and out of sync with my html version
# 20:09 bret but most people subscribe to the one I advertise in my metadata
# 20:10 bret i have a dry violation and generate an xml page
# 20:10 tantek bret - perhaps advertise the auto-generated one in your metadata
# 20:11 tantek bret - I have the same dry violation currently
# 20:11 bret i put up a roadblock to do my own h-feed to atom service, but I should just do that rather than a crappy feed
# 20:11 tantek except the xml page is a subset because Atom is bloated compared to HTML (ironically), and feed readers overpoll.
# 20:12 bret i don't have a php env I can throw it on
# 20:13 tantek is that something the free level of appengine or heroku can do?
# 20:15 snarfed barnabywalters++ for already implementing an h-feed-to-atom service
# 20:15 snarfed i was going to a while back, but stopped when he launched his
# 20:16 bret new project! one click deploy to heroku of barnaby's thingy
# 20:17 bret technically the PuSH Ping should be enough to wake it up and send the PuSH publish event
# 20:17 tantek unless you care (and are keeping metrics) about who / what IP / what UA is polling your legacy feed files, we really should offload that kind of thing to proxies
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# 20:18 Loqi barnabywalters: KevinMarks__ left you a message 1 hour, 16 minutes ago: can we chat on how to mark up h-feeds so that https://waterpigs.co.uk/services/microformats-to-atom/ makes podcatcher friendly ones - would be nice to round-trip podcasts through fund.unmung.com and yout hfeed to atom, adn to give guidance for h-feed podcast markup.
# 20:19 bret barnabywalters: I wanna turn your h-feed to atom service into a one click heroku deploy
# 20:20 bret and openshift, and appfog etc whatever
# 20:21 snarfed KevinMarks_: fund.unmung.com? indieweb VC fund? :P
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# 20:25 bret Crap, Need to read over the Social WG changes
# 20:26 carmen maybe Social WG is just a make-work thing by overtalktative PhDs ?
# 20:27 tantek bret - ah, the AS2 changes - that's different
# 20:27 tantek I thought you meant some changes in the WG itself
# 20:28 bret the AS2 formatting changes were the primary focus for this week right?
# 20:29 carmen USENET, BBSes, email, we socialnetworked for decade w/o the "social" branding-buzzword bandied about or theoretical metagroups holding teleconferences about proposed-standards
# 20:29 carmen mainly the one where i don't believe in signing NDAs or owrking on bloated shit like Mozilla so i have no job.. ever..
# 20:29 tantek carmen - those notes are too highlevel to make the distinctions
# 20:30 tantek social *web* has certainly changed greatly over the past ten years
# 20:30 tantek and has much functionality far above / beyond USENET, BBSes, email
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# 20:30 tantek carmen - well, we can help with your own site at least. what's your personal domain?
# 20:36 barnabywalters bret: awesome! I can give you the (PHP) code now if you want, or make it into a package which we can both use, so improvements get applied everywhere it’s used
# 20:36 bret barnabywalters: does it have a repo that it lives in?
# 20:37 bret No rush, but getting that broken out, I can try to fork it and get it running on heroku
# 20:38 bret even if it doesn't work on its own yet
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# 20:46 bret barnabywalters: I'm new to php so its going to be a learning experience for me
# 20:48 barnabywalters what languages are you familiar with? it might be more effective to take the template and re-create it in another language
# 20:49 barnabywalters a task which I’m still in the process of refining, but that work is now happening in shrewdness
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# 20:57 tantek notes that aaronpk already *has* real-time endpoint that works to *display* in real time comments on his notes
# 20:57 benwerd Potentially something to play with / ask about this weekend
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# 20:58 tantek AFAIK aaronpk is the only that has gotten that working
# 20:58 tantek and when it does work, watching it is like magic
# 20:58 benwerd There's a lot to be said for more real-time interactions
# 20:58 benwerd And the IRC logs are the best in the world, period
# 20:58 tantek of course, there's something to be said for real time *home page* updates too
# 20:58 tantek so if someone is looking atyour home page and you post a note - it just show sup
# 20:59 tantek having that working would be a good thing to show against twitter
# 20:59 tantek aaronpk - that would be cool for this weekend
# 20:59 tantek emphasis on the documenting - since no one else has gotten it working
# 20:59 tantek aaronpk - it's surprisingly non-obvious since no one else has done it
# 20:59 barnabywalters shrewdness columns automatically update, based on polling rather than fancy websockets though
# 21:01 gRegor` what is real-time webmention endpoint?
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# 21:27 KevinMarks__ I meant feed.unmung.com, but making an indieweb angelist syndicate might be an idea
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# 21:33 benwerd aaronpk_ what powers the real-time? Is it server-sent events, or something else?
# 21:34 aaronpk_ basically the browser opens a websockets connection then tells the server the URL of the page it's on, and the server sends blobs of HTML whenever there's comments on that URL
# 21:35 aaronpk_ it's backed by redis which does the pub/sub stuff to avoid getting into multiplexing hell in code
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# 21:35 aaronpk_ oh and since my webmention handler is PHP, I still get to use PHP for rendering the HTML of the comments, and PHP just pushes the HTML into redis
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# 21:51 jonnybarnes barnabywalters: as per you comment on the shrwedness issue, should my h-card on my homepage have a u-url link to jonnybarnes.uk?
# 21:52 barnabywalters jonnybarnes: I think so — either that or consumers need a defined algorithm for figuring out the canonical URL for an h-card
# 21:52 barnabywalters which, incidentally, is a purpose served by the u-uid property we were discussing earlier and in #microformats
# 21:54 anomalily Okay, so I'm pretty sure that I just need to make my own calendar that conforms to h-event standards
# 21:54 bret barnabywalters: re code notes above... noted. will check it out to see what makes sense
# 21:54 anomalily Because I cannot make any other solution work
# 22:00 tantek and by convention we've been using canonical URLs for that
# 22:07 bret but theoretically you could use the has of the quantum time function
# 22:10 tantek wait what's weird about it? I thought I made it simple again :P
# 22:11 barnabywalters having a page-level h-card and no rel-author but p-author properties which are the URL of the h-card on the same page
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# 22:34 tantek barnabywalters: apologies I thought I had changed that back
# 22:35 tantek because you're right, it's weird markup for authorship
# 22:35 jonnybarnes barnabywalters: you know your getAuthor() method, silly question, but what does it actually return?
# 22:36 barnabywalters jonnybarnes: it returns either an h-card array structure, or a string if only a reference can be found
# 22:36 tantek barnabywalters: what about this instead? <a class="p-author h-card" href="/"></a>
# 22:37 barnabywalters tantek: that’ll just result in a weird h-card, which OTTOMH I think my code won’t handle
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# 22:38 barnabywalters if you can’t put anything complete (e.g. name and url at the very least) in the author property of each h-entry, just add a rel-author link to /
# 22:39 tantek that's less code, so that's better advice for a publisher
# 22:43 tantek barnabywalters: reload tantek.com in shrewdness and find out what happens!
# 22:45 barnabywalters will also fetch rel-author and parse for representative h-card if no h-card on the page has a matching URL
# 22:46 barnabywalters shrewdness’s h-entry/h-feed parsing is quite robust. still more work to do though
# 22:46 tantek does it optimize for when rel=author refers to the same page?
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# 23:04 tantek kylewm, jdp23 have you guys coordinated and resolve on HWC SF for Wednesday?
# 23:04 Loqi tantek meant to say: kylewm, jdp23 have you guys coordinated and resolved on HWC SF for Wednesday?
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# 23:05 tantek what's the best way to respond to a tweet like that? ask for specific list of names/URLs of "dead" open-source distributed-social-network projects ?
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# 23:06 jonnybarnes now I need to go through them and see how standard the output is and then try it on some real sites
# 23:06 tantek wishes his posting UI made it easier to quick reply to tweets like that
# 23:07 GWG tantek, what would be necessary for you to do that?
# 23:08 tantek GWG - building a reply endpoint and posting UI on my site. farther down on my list than what I'm currently working on.
# 23:08 KevinMarks__ ask him to add them to site-deaths where all the closed source dead ones are listed?
# 23:09 tantek I'd just ask for a list of names and URLs of the projects, and then we can update pages for each name
# 23:09 GWG tantek, I would like one of those too. I am hoping certain things catch up with my desire.
# 23:10 GWG tantek, writing a posting UI is on my list though
# 23:11 tantek GWG - but you already have one - in WordPress
# 23:11 thierrymarianne tantek: It's funny how this place is a sort of observatory on the outdoors except that this IRC chan also forms part of the subject of observation.
# 23:12 GWG tantek that is an article posting UI
# 23:15 Loqi kylewm: jdp23 left you a message on 10/4 at 11:57pm: is there a good time to sync up on the HWC meeting? we need to pick a place etc. etc.
# 23:16 GWG Loqi, geh shlog dein kup en vant.
# 23:17 kylewm !tell jdp23 La Boulange works, let's go forward with that
# 23:17 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 23:17 tantek KevinMarks: thank you for the forensics. We can leave that feedback to benwerd.
# 23:17 GWG tantek, that's what Jeremy Zilar was working on at IWC.
# 23:17 tantek kylewm: want to optimistically update the wiki page as such as well? and add yourself to RSVP?
# 23:17 tantek I think jdp23 said he would post an indie event and POSSE FB copy
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# 23:22 KevinMarks__ kylewm: you could post an indie event on knwon.kevinmarks.com if you like (I think you logged in there)
# 23:23 kylewm KevinMarks__: ha, I didn't know I could *post* on your known. will do
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# 23:25 carmen Accept-Post helps inform client of capabilities
# 23:35 kylewm KevinMarks++ for letting me use his website :P
# 23:35 kylewm I see why nobody ever wants to post these events...
# 23:41 aaronpk_ FB's event creation UI is actually pretty good. I plan to take a lot of inspiration from it when I develop an event UI
# 23:45 kylewm KevinMarks__: Known's UI isn't perfect but they have a leg up on the rest of us by having one at all :)
# 23:46 kylewm ohh I am getting notification emails from known.kevinmarks.com now
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