#indiewebcamp 2014-10-30

2014-10-30 UTC
j12t joined the channel
snarfed and cmhobbs joined the channel
#
tantek
There's a lot of references on http://indiewebcamp.com/webactions that could (should) be added to ^^^
Pierre-O joined the channel
#
GWG
tantek: I emailed Jeremy Zilar.
#
tantek
GWG - thank you!
#
GWG
tantek: He's still trying to get something together.
#
tantek
glad to hear it
#
GWG
I tried when we last discussed it, and just followed up.
#
GWG
Anyone else planning an IWC event?
scor and KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
tantek
GWG - I'm looking at the planning of the next HWC event myself
#
tantek
GWG re: Anyone else planning an IWC event? See: http://indiewebcamp.com/2015
#
tantek.com
created /2015 (+390) "stub - since I linked to it on IRC, call to action for organizers"
(view diff)
#
tantek.com
edited /events/next-hwc (+0) "update 2014-11-05"
(view diff)
chrissaad, gr0k and rschulman_ joined the channel
#
GWG
tantek: How about November/December?
#
jgarber
tantek: This... I like this... http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/DC Do you, aaronpk, or anyone else fancy a trip to the Nation's Capital?
#
GWG
jgarber: I do. I have an uncle I can stay with
#
sparverius
i work within walking distance of moz hq and i never have time to go to iw night
fmarier joined the channel
#
jgarber
GWG Excellent! I think we could have a pretty good IWC here in DC.
tfontaine and chrissaad joined the channel
#
GWG
I hope so. I'll come down for at least some of it
mlncn, lmorchard, EOGreer, KartikPrabhu and sivoais joined the channel
#
GWG
jgarber: Are you new in here? I don't recall the username
#
jgarber
Not new, no, just an infrequent visitor in the IRC channel.
paulfitz joined the channel
#
GWG
jgarber: We haven't talked though, right?
#
jgarber
I don't believe so, no. Pleased to make your acquaintance!
#
GWG
And you wrote a book
j12t joined the channel
#
jgarber
GWG: Heh, yeah, I contributed a couple chapters to a book once. It was an interesting experience, not sure that it's for me, though.
#
GWG
What are your plans for Indieweb stuff?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "your plans for Indieweb stuff" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=your+plans+for+Indieweb+stuff
#
jgarber
GWG: I have a couple listed out on my profile page: http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Sixtwothree.org Right now I'm focusing on building a CMS for myself (written in Ruby and Sinatra: https://github.com/jgarber623/FrancisCMS ).
#
jgarber
GWG: How about you?
#
GWG
Working on a bunch of WordPress plugins for Indieweb stuff. Trying to simultaneously write for myself and a little for others
#
jgarber
GWG: Cool! Let's pick this conversation up again (particularly regarding a DC IWC). Hope you (and everyone else here) have a pleasant evening (or afternoon or morning depending on where you are)!
KartikPrabhu, chrissaad, davemenninger, mdik and gRegor` joined the channel
#
aaronpk
huh, bridgy seems to have not found my latest post.
#
GWG
aaronpk: Been there.
#
aaronpk
oh here it comes
#
aaronpk
that was weird
indie-visitor joined the channel
#
Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
bengar, KartikPrabhu, j12t, fmarier, EOGreer, Erkan_Yilmaz, gr0k and KevinMarks_ joined the channel
lukebrooker and tantek joined the channel
#
tantek
jgarber, GWG add yourselves to the DC page with your level of interest! (co-organizer, participant, volunteer, etc.)
#
tantek
realizes that was a delayed response and now checks the logs for edits.
#
GWG
tantek: I'm going to bed now.
#
tantek
yes! it's late on the East Coast!
#
GWG
It is
KartikPrabhu, EOGreer, friedcell, KevinMarks_, eburcat and gr0k joined the channel
glennjones, mzki, EOGreer, eburcat, KevinMarks__, cweiske, krendil, sammachin, mlncn, kensanata, Sebastien-L, stream7, j12t, tantek, squeakytoy and Pierre-O joined the channel
#
@brennannovak
@simonv3 there's also a weekly digest from @indiewebcamp bug @aaronpk to be added @aral @digitalWestie
(twtr.io/sNKFrvbefo)
Sebastien-L, EOGreer, csarven, LauraJ, gr0k, tantek, chrisroos, annevk_, tgbrun, wolftune, brianloveswords, danlyke, jsun and paulfitz joined the channel
#
@Eastmad
@umairh it might be a technical solution, but look at #indieweb and proponents like @kevinmarks. (I admit I still use blogger)
(twtr.io/sNWU3cMdh8)
shiflett and mlncn-agaric joined the channel
#
tantek
what is digest?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "digest" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=digest
#
tantek
what is newsletter?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "newsletter" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=newsletter
EOGreer joined the channel
#
tantek.com
created /this-week (+39) "r"
(view diff)
#
tantek.com
created /weekly (+39) "r"
(view diff)
#
tantek.com
created /digest (+39) "r"
(view diff)
#
tantek.com
edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+152) "link to this-week-in-the-indieweb so it's more discoverable"
(view diff)
#
tantek
hopefully that will make it easier for other folks and folks in the community to rediscover this week in the indieweb!
jsun joined the channel
#
cweiske
kylewm, I cannot login to your site
#
cweiske
I get an internal server error
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
tantek.com
created /thisweek (+39) "r"
(view diff)
chrissaad joined the channel
#
aaronpk
hmm now I kind of want to make an aggregate blog from all the entries on http://indiewebcamp.com/Posts_about_the_IndieWeb
#
aaronpk
then I could make an email newsletter that sent those out to people
stream7_, danlyke and cuibonobo joined the channel
#
aaronparecki.com
created /User:Aaronparecki.com/Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+780) "testing what the page looks like using templates for listing articles"
(view diff)
Sebastien-L and Pea1 joined the channel
#
aaronparecki.com
created /Template:ArticleLink (+250) "first stab at an article link template"
(view diff)
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /Template:ArticleLink (+2) "try div instead of li"
(view diff)
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /Template:ArticleLink (+4) "try bullet with span"
(view diff)
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /Template:ArticleLink (-23) "single author property"
(view diff)
#
aaronpk
well that worked
gr0k, KartikPrabhu and Jihaisse joined the channel
#
kylewm
cweiske: I think I fixed the bug that prevented you from logging in
stream7 and Sebastien-L joined the channel
#
@schnarfed
@Eastmad @umairh @kevinmarks blogger can do indieweb too! just sign up for https://www.brid.gy
(twtr.io/sNhFz1oqZb)
#
cweiske
kylewm, worked
#
cweiske
kylewm, what does that give me?
#
cweiske
do I see something more when I'm logged in?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
cweiske, if you have mp-config set up it does
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i get reply / post/ like urls that link to my MP-client
#
cweiske
I don't have it setup
#
ben_thatmustbeme
thats the only thing i see thus far
#
ben_thatmustbeme
been sort of out of the loop lately, super busy with work
#
KevinMarks
hm, shrewdness seems to have lost my logins
mko and mlncn-agaric joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme
mine has me as still logged in, but lost all content
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme
actually, the subscribe and search buttons don't do anything, so yeah, its basically dead at the moment
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i'm getting closer to getting this homescreen like web-page worked out. eventually I'll get it all figure out nice
tantek joined the channel
#
mko
ben_thatmustbeme: is it public?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
mko, not yet, i want to get a bit further along
#
ben_thatmustbeme
but its taking me so long, i may just post it
#
ben_thatmustbeme
give me a few, i'll show you where i'm at
#
mko
ben_thatmustbeme: I've been working on an indie-auth'd accessible "Dashboard" view as my default browser homepage, but I've been having problems with IndieAuth losing the authentication. >.<
#
mko
I'm pretty sure it's a config issue in how I'm serving cookies right now, but it's blocking me from it being actually useful.
#
ben_thatmustbeme
mko, you could just set your own cookie after auth, then its all just your management of it
#
aaronpk
yeah indieauth has no concept of "sessions" or being logged in, it's just to identify the user
#
aaronpk
after that it's up to you
#
mko
Yeah. I do. I think it's a bug in the Node module that I'm using for auth cookies. I'm going to rewrite it to work more consistently.
#
mko
Oh, I'm not blaming IndieAuth at all. I actually meant to say "with losing the IndieAuth authentication" but apparently transcribed it when I was typing. I'm a bit scattered this morning.
#
ben_thatmustbeme
syncing files to a place to show the css styling thus far, which is pretty much just all ripped out of firefoxOS
#
ben_thatmustbeme
https://ben.thatmustbe.me/static/newpage/ Twitter Icon is just a placeholder for now, it will be people's faces/names
#
ben_thatmustbeme
still haven't worked through all their JS yet, but i want to have all the drag/drop/swipe/folders of a homescreen
scor joined the channel
#
mko
Neat. I like that idea and it looks like it'll be a good start to a great little homescreen.
#
mko
All the JS errors. lol
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i figure just have my contacts list look like that, then its a web-app and not just dropping icons on my desktop
tgbrun joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme
yeah, i have been loading / going through the js slowly i want to make sure I understand it well enough to do this right
#
@SammiJRay
If you guys can watch cat videos and make them go viral, you can watch this: https://www.youtube.com/ #Superheroes #actorslife #indieweb
(twtr.io/sNntByhHPC)
KevinMarks_, EOGreer and gr0k joined the channel
#
@benwerd
Going to be talking about #indieweb tech (the ideas & tech behind @withknown) at #iiw in 15 minutes. IRC channel, please do not swear. ;)
(twtr.io/sNoYLazSiD)
EOGreer, gr0k and tbbrown joined the channel
#
@withknown
If you're at #iiw today, @benwerd is getting ready to talk about #indieweb in room I.
(twtr.io/sNpjo5mgzU)
j12t joined the channel
#
@LifeHealthDiary
Sovereignty, Privacy, your medical information longer being a source of advertising http://lifetimehealthdiary.com #OwnYourData jg
(twtr.io/sNqPCmm7D4)
indie-visitor joined the channel
#
Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
KartikPrabhu1 joined the channel
#
@benwerd
I'm demoing #indieweb !
(twtr.io/sNqxoHkXj2)
j12t joined the channel
#
indie-visitor
I'm watching @benwerd demo #indieweb
Deledrius, davidpeach and pauloppenheim joined the channel
#
@nobantu
RT @benwerd: Going to be talking about #indieweb tech (the ideas & tech behind @withknown) at #iiw in 15 minutes. IRC channel, please do no…
(twtr.io/sNtRxadrNf)
tantek and Pierre-O joined the channel
#
aaronpk
https://alexgaynor.net/2014/oct/30/i-hope-twitter-goes-away/ "Sorry, no comments here. I'd much rather you wrote your own blog post or sent me an email instead. Comments are never going to happen. Stop trying to make comments happen."
shiflett joined the channel
#
aaronpk
I suddenly find myself wanting to "favorite" the fact that someone started following me
#
aaronpk
maybe following should be a post
Mark87 joined the channel
#
tantek
aaronpk - I proposed precisely that two days ago in the W3C Social Web WG - that "x is following y" should be a post, just as "x favorited/liked y" is a post. :)
#
aaronpk
oh good :)
#
aaronpk
I'm trying to figure out what "post type" that is, so that I can start publishing them
#
tantek
what is a follow?
#
Loqi
To follow is the concept of establishing a digital relationship to another person or entity so that you can receive updates from them over a given social media channel http://indiewebcamp.com/follow
#
aaronpk
(I am also simultaneously regretting segmenting my URLs by post type)
#
tantek
restrains himself from specific comments on URL design back in the day when we last discussed this ;)
#
aaronpk
I should have just done date URLs for all posts in a single namespace, rather than articles, notes, replies, metrics, etc
#
tantek
aaronpk++
#
Loqi
aaronpk has 595 karma
#
Loqi
agreed.
#
aaronpk
ooooops
#
aaronpk
I suppose I *could* change it, but that'd be a TON of work to set up proper redirects for everything
#
tantek
aaronpk, now the challenge for you is to look up *when* we had that discussion (2+ years ago?)
#
aaronpk
checks the first commit of p3k
#
ben_thatmustbeme
haha, yeah I have been questioning that schema as well
#
aaronpk
darnit
#
aaronpk
it made sense at the time I swear
#
ben_thatmustbeme
I'm thinking of just making my archive controller redirect to a specific post though so they can be treated either way
#
tantek
aaronpk - I believe you made a URL design decision based on how you thought your readers would want to primarily consume your content (by type).
#
aaronpk
i'd have to actually rename all my files on disk in order to change my URLs
#
aaronpk
that sounds right
#
tantek
btw here's where I noted that following would be nounified in Indie Web posts, as we have nounified all other verbs we've implemented to date: http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/2014-10-27#t1414454807997
#
aaronpk
also I didn't have a database at the time, so could not easily separate into multiple feeds
#
tantek
it was on MOnday
#
tantek
aaronpk - I don't have a database, but I do have multiple feeds
#
ben_thatmustbeme
hmm, i think i'll do it so /2014/10/10/1 would redirect to /notes/2014/10/10/1 but /2014/10/10 would show all entries for that day, and /notes/2014/10/10 would show all notes for that day
#
aaronpk
but now that I have a database it's much easier to have multiple feeds by post type or other things like I do with tags
#
aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: that's what I would do right now except I might have notes/2014/10/10/1 and replies/2014/10/10/1 and they are different
#
tantek
ben_thatmust: I have /YYYY/DDD/TN where YYYY-DDD is ISO ordinal date, T is single character post type, and N is the incremental number of that post type for that date.
#
tantek
and you can trim characters from the end of the URL and it does the right thing
#
tantek
hence /YYYY/DDD/T provides all posts of type T for date YYYY-DDD
#
ben_thatmustbeme
ahh, my number is unique since i store everything in 1 table right now
#
aaronpk
oy I want to change itn ow
#
tantek
and /YYYY/DDD provides all posts for date YYYY-DDD
#
aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: yeah mine aren't stored in a table :)
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i've been looking at solutions to that too, store in files but use DB for searching/numbering etc
annevk joined the channel
#
tantek
e.g. http://tantek.com/2014/301/t3 - single post permalink w/o slug; http://tantek.com/2014/301/t - all notes for 2014-301; http://tantek.com/2014/301 - all posts for 2014-301
tilgovi joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme
going to mean rewriting all my models though... or get REALLY smart on my sql driver
caseorganic, snarfed, gr0k, dorian, danlyke and Sebastien-L joined the channel
#
dorian
aha, thanks kevinmarks for pointing me here
snarfed joined the channel
#
tantek
welcome dorian!
#
tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: what is this "rewriting all my models" that you speak of?
davidmead and brianloveswords joined the channel
#
kylewm
aaronpk: man I just went through the same crisis with segmenting post types into their own namespaces
#
aaronpk
either way on mine I want to make the levels represent directories
#
aaronpk
I do know I want to show my "main" feed on my home page, not all posts
#
aaronpk
and I also know I want to have different feeds for certain types, like a "notes" feed separate from a "checkin" feed
#
aaronpk
but I feel like that should be a queryable thing, not baked into the way I store my files
#
ben_thatmustbeme
heh, tantek, I love MVC for that, model doesn't necessarily mean i have to store in a DB, just a translation from somewhere to my code... i'm thinking I just make my models pull/write to on disk files, but then cache in DB
#
aaronpk
I also generate a lot of posts per day, so I do want the day in the URL too
#
tantek
aaronpk - I do post-type-specific feeds by query (parameters in URLs)
#
aaronpk
especially since I have day-based URLs
#
tantek
I made the choice of date-primary over type-primary because dates are a known thing with a known range, whereas types are still being figured out. Thought that was a no brainer in terms of designing which should be more primary in URL / storage design (that's supposted to be longterm, thus more stable).
#
tantek
kylewm: I don't understand your post - https://kylewm.com/2014/10/contemplating-a-new-permalink-layout because my URL does not start with /type/year
caseorganic joined the channel
#
aaronpk
oh another consideration of my URLs is that I often create metrics posts out of order (some data is imported hours after it's created, when I may have created several other posts in the mean time)
#
aaronpk
that's the reason I use HHMMSS instead of numeric index for those posts
#
tantek
aaronpk - that seems like a sensible approach
#
kylewm
tantek: I meant the components included in the url more than the order+exact layout
#
kylewm
when I said that I based them on yours and aaron's
#
tantek
kylewm: huh - I think the order is important
#
aaronpk
and if there's a conflict then I just artificially increment the "seconds" part by one until there's no conflict
#
kylewm
tantek: yeah order is definitely important, and I like your rationale for date first ... had to come to that conclusion on my own
Pierre-O joined the channel
#
aaronpk
so I think I'd want to support that format still too. I would end up with two URL formats: YYYY/MM/DD/N and YYYY/MM/DD/HHMMSS (and also YYYY/MM/DD/N-slug)
#
aaronpk
only potential danger there is if I somehow had over a million regular posts in a single day. but that seems unlikely. 999,999 ought to be good enough for anybody.
benjamin-agaric joined the channel
#
aaronpk
oops no. over 100,000, so I am limited to 99,999 per day
snarfed joined the channel
#
tantek
is amazed at aaronpk's *personal* big data problem.
#
tantek
kylewm: how do we document these URL design learnings in a way that suggests a pattern for future implementers?
#
aaronpk
I guess I should write a post like kylewm's based on all my irc chatter here
#
kylewm
and I should document my changes http://indiewebcamp.com/permalinks
#
aaronpk
oh man here's another great example of why you should have date-based permalinks with full path navagability
#
aaronpk
http://indiewebcamp.com/permalinks has a link to my tweet from 2009 about URL shorteners. I wanted to find the version of that post on my site, but in 2009 I didn't have a citation on my tweets
#
aaronpk
but because I knew the date of the tweet, 2009-12-08 I knew I could find it at http://aaronparecki.com/2009/12/08
chrissaad, KevinMarks, arlen and fmarier joined the channel
#
@ahallicks
The web is your API: feeds and actions using HTML5 and webmentions - http://werd.io/2014/the-web-is-your-api-feeds-and-actions-using-html5
(twtr.io/sP3Z4pz7XC)
cweiske joined the channel
#
Mark87
Anyone have experience or work with Enterprise Application Integration?
#
cweiske
what is enterprise application integration?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "enterprise application integration" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=enterprise+application+integration
#
Mark87
You have multiple applications that weren't designed to interoperate and store their data in different ways and formats, and you wrap them in adapters and make them talk to each other, or present a higher level adapter that aggregates their functionality to make "one" application
krendil joined the channel
#
aaronpk
steps away slowly
#
cweiske
oh, I do that at work
#
cweiske
for our intranet search engine
#
cweiske
most tools we use cannot be indexed properly
#
cweiske
so I had to write exports
#
KartikPrabhu1
sounds dangerous!
Mark87_ joined the channel
#
Mark87_
I ask because the realm of indie websites could be thought of in some ways as similar, and I just wonder if theres anything to be learned from that connection
#
Mark87
For now we have webmentions and microformats to connect us
#
Mark87
And I guess they serve as our wrappers/adapters
#
aaronpk
right, webmentions and microformats connect websites which otherwise have completely different backend and incompatible implementations
#
KartikPrabhu
why the "for now" ?
#
Mark87
Well who knows what well think up next year or the year after
#
fiatjaf
what is CORS
#
Loqi
CORS is an acronym for "cross-origin resource sharing," a mechanism for allowing browsers to make JavaScript requests to fetch resources from other domains http://indiewebcamp.com/CORS
#
KartikPrabhu
well hopefully webmentions and mf2 are improved not thrown away. SOmething like how HTML is never thrown away
#
KartikPrabhu
does not like the Javascript hammer gfor everything
#
aaronpk
I'm assuming you were implying there may be new things added to the list in the future, like the recent work on actions
#
Mark87
yup exactly
#
Mark87
But even with webmentions, we're already tacking on things like vouch
#
tilgovi
got webmention sending from hypothes.is working last night
#
tilgovi
up on a branch
#
bret
tilgovi++
#
bret
so cool!
#
Loqi
tilgovi has 2 karma
#
tilgovi
gotta make some more improvements, maybe adding fragmentions so I can annotate KartikPrabhu's site
#
bret
tilgovi: I dig the css too.. nice and compact
#
KartikPrabhu
you don't have to add anything for that! Just put a fragmention in the in-reply-to URL
#
tilgovi
KartikPrabhu: yeah, I know
#
tilgovi
lemme give it a shot
#
cweiske
tilgovi, are you a hypothesis developer?
#
tilgovi
it's just ## + quote?
#
tilgovi
cweiske: yep
#
cweiske
coolio. I had it on my list of tools to try out
#
cweiske
having webmention support would be awesome for replies
#
tilgovi
cool. send any feedback my way.
arlen joined the channel
#
tilgovi
the biggest thing I want to change is that it's a bit of a black box right now
brianloveswords joined the channel
#
tilgovi
good for the blogger who doesn't want to write anything but add annotations to their site. and good for the individual who wants the bookmarklet/extension in their browser for annotating other sites.
#
KartikPrabhu
your source has so much stuff before the content...
#
tilgovi
not so good for the indie web developer who wants a script with an API like webmention.io style
#
cweiske
ah, now I know why I didn't install it. python
#
tilgovi
KartikPrabhu: yeah, progressive enhancement. It's 99% a single page client app, but there's a small static template there for the webmention
#
KartikPrabhu
tilgovi: well if you are prog. enhancing. maybe only load on request or something... anyway not crucial
#
tilgovi
cweiske: if we had the server API well documented and made it easy for you to build the front end without any Python knowledge, would that help? Then you could just implement the REST endpoints for storage.
#
tilgovi
and take the JS library.
#
tfontaine
tilgovi++
#
Loqi
tilgovi has 3 karma
#
cweiske
is the api complex?
benjamin-agaric joined the channel
#
tilgovi
not really
#
tilgovi
CRUD + search
#
cweiske
then yes
#
tilgovi
cool. it's high on my list.
#
tilgovi
anyway, I'd been promising to do this for way too long. thought I'd just drop y'all a note.
#
cweiske
I like to hack alternative implementations
#
tilgovi
i'll see if I can get it cleaned up and into production and then I'll add it to the wiki
#
cweiske
tilgovi, my original idea was to give people a way to annotate text on my page and send me comments about that
#
cweiske
and hypothesis looked like a match
#
cweiske
e.g. when there is a typo
#
cweiske
or just some comment, as medium.com provides
#
JonathanNeal
fragmention in a reply to?
#
JonathanNeal
KartikPrabhu: good to see you! How are you doing?
#
KartikPrabhu
yeah for marginalia :)
#
KartikPrabhu
Doing good. lot of actual work stuff rather than indieweb
mlncn joined the channel
#
tilgovi
cweiske: yeah. right now that use case is covered somewhat well, but only if you want to take it as a "black box" and let us run the service or if you want to run the whole stack yourself.
#
cweiske
I'm the whole-stack-on-my-server type
#
tilgovi
isn't that why we're here ;)
#
cweiske
exactly
#
KartikPrabhu
is confused. HOw is hypothes.is helping do annotations?
loic_m joined the channel
#
cweiske
try it out
#
tilgovi
KartikPrabhu: can you rephrase that? I don't think I understand.
#
KartikPrabhu
does this document have to be in the hypothesis system?
chrissaad joined the channel
#
tilgovi
KartikPrabhu: no
EOGreer joined the channel
#
cweiske
that's the trick :)
#
KartikPrabhu
aah browser extension I see
#
tilgovi
you add https://hypothes.is/embed.js to any page (or the user does, by bringing their own bookmarklet or extension)
#
tilgovi
(or, hopefully, one day maybe we just have browsers that have this, rather than just simple bookmarks)
#
tilgovi
(lots of hand waving)
#
KartikPrabhu
tilgovi: hmm no microformats yet?
gr0k joined the channel
#
cweiske
you can't have all at once
#
KartikPrabhu
my site could not read your post
#
tilgovi
KartikPrabhu: I haven't merged any microformats to production, just on the test instance at webmention.dokku.hypothes.is
#
KartikPrabhu
aah I see.
#
tilgovi
sorry for the confusion
#
tilgovi
And I'm quite sure I may have messed things up, anyway, since this is my first time trying this out.
#
tilgovi
It seems to work on aaronpk's site, but not sure about others'p
#
tilgovi
I think it worked on yours too when I tried it last night
#
tilgovi
but it just showed up as a mention at the bottom and the summary wasn't good
#
tilgovi
I may have improved it by the time I slept, but didn't try it again
#
tilgovi
obviously, though, the fragmention would be the best :-D
#
KartikPrabhu
tilgovi: yeah it showed up as a mention becasue it found a URL but no microformats. so it couldn't decide if it was a reply or not
#
tilgovi
I'll give it a shot right now. I definitely had it very broken at first.
#
tilgovi
Also I'm so sorry for any nonsense I'm leaving on anyone's notes as I test broken things. I looked around but didn't find whether anyone's built a validator I can use to test.
#
KartikPrabhu
sure. feel free to add a "u-in-reply-to" and also a fragmention (if you want) and resend the mention
#
KartikPrabhu
validator for?
#
KartikPrabhu
there are a bunch of microformats parsing test pages
#
tilgovi
yeah, that's what I'd like. I didn't see that in my wiki spelunking but maybe I should have ujst searched
#
tilgovi
okay, I just tried to resend it (no fragmention yet) just to see if I'd at least improved the permalink / summary / etc
#
tilgovi
but I get a 500
#
tilgovi
apologies, again, I know the code is really nasty because of all the non-static stuff
#
tilgovi
but look for the <main> tags
#
tilgovi
also, you don't have to debug this now
#
tilgovi
if you're busy
#
KartikPrabhu
tilgovi: interesting. I seem to have picked up some microformats from that page already but didn't seem to pick up a "in-reply-to" URL even though it exists... I'll debug this evening
#
tilgovi
I was resending that one. I had sent it last night.
#
tilgovi
Don't know if that causes any problem for you.
#
KartikPrabhu
no resending will just update it
#
tilgovi
is it going to be a problem if there's more than one in-reply-to?
#
tilgovi
I'm tempted to have one that's just the URL for the header/metadata part of my posts and one that's on the quote itself that has the fragmention
#
tilgovi
i'll remove the non-fragmention one for now
#
KartikPrabhu
tilgovi: hmm good point! I don't know :P You can update the post as you want and I'll update my code to treat it nicely :)
#
tilgovi
KartikPrabhu++
#
KartikPrabhu
still don't know why the 500 error. I think it does not find an h-entry and barfs :( must use good fallbacks
#
Loqi
KartikPrabhu has 73 karma
#
ben_thatmustbeme
reading back, actually aaronpk, since you include time down to seconds aren't you limited to 86400 posts per day
#
kylewm
I think the issue was that if he had a numerically indexed post 100,000 it would be indistinguishable from 10:00:00 in HHMMSS
tantek joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme
well yes, but he could never actually reach that number since the number of seconds in a day is well below that
#
ben_thatmustbeme
if he started to get that high, he would be overflowing seconds in to the next day (by his move to next free second method)
#
ben_thatmustbeme
actually, thats an interesting question. what happens if you have multiple posts occur at 23:59:59 aaronpk?
#
cweiske
tilgovi, could you give me a heads up when the API is documented? cweiske@cweiske.de
#
cweiske
I also hang around here
#
tilgovi
cweiske: sure thing
#
cweiske
could someone with a proprietary browser (safari, IE) check if the video plays? http://cweiske.de/tagebuch/grauphel.htm#screencast
chrissaad joined the channel
#
cweiske
anyone?
indie-visitor joined the channel
#
tantek
aaronpk, re: another great example of why you should have date-based permalinks with full path navagability, see also the write-up of archive-based dated-link repairing from last Thursday! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-10-23#t1414105046134
Mark87 and bengar joined the channel
#
dorian
tantek: absolute numbers in pagination schemes while yer at it
#
kylewm
cweiske: plays in IE11
#
cweiske
thanks
#
tantek
dorian - as in don't do them - they don't produce re-referenceable results
#
tantek
also a topic I remember debating with aaronpk 2-3 years ago in IRC
#
aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: I'm talking about two separate schemes. the first, for articles/notes/photos/checkins/etc is just an incrementing index starting at 1. I'm limited to 99,999 that way. The other, for metrics, is always HHMMSS and I can have up to 86400 of those.
#
aaronpk
I guess i'll have to have a special handler for how to deal with 23:59:59, probably just start searching backwards for a free slot
#
tantek
why not milliseconds?
#
aaronpk
too long URLs
#
tantek
in newbase60?
#
aaronpk
YYYY/MM/DD/HHMMSS is pretty recognizable
#
tantek
has yet to start encoding timestamps in newbase60
#
tantek
aaronpk, note that with newbase60 you could do HMS instead of HHMMSS
#
aaronpk
that's tempting, but less human readable
#
tantek
add another newbase60 digit for 60ths of a second :)
#
aaronpk
i'm shooting for human readable for the full URL, and compressable for the short url
#
tantek
and then you can record your life at 60fps :D
#
aaronpk
ha that might work
#
aaronpk
I already do newbase60 date encoding for the metrics short urls http://aaron.pk/m4YtdxM
#
dorian
tantek i meant don't do ?page=N (or /page/N) and have some fixed number of records per page
#
tfontaine
For me, it's epoch or nothing. :P
RichardLitt joined the channel
#
cr
1414590483 is when exactly?
#
tantek
tfontaine: I use epoch days in NewBase60 for my permashortlinks
#
rascul
cr Wed Oct 29 13:48:03 UTC 2014
#
tantek
compresses to 3 digits :D
#
aaronpk
!date 1414590483
#
Loqi
That looks like a unix timestamp! 2014-10-29 06:48:03 PDT
#
cr
nice
#
rascul
nifty
#
Loqi
Loqi has 314 karma
#
tantek
!unixtime 2014-10-29 06:48:03 PDT
#
Loqi
1414705270
#
tantek
!date 1414705270
#
Loqi
That looks like a unix timestamp! 2014-10-30 14:41:10 PDT
#
rascul
maybe !unixtime doesn't know the timezone
#
tantek
maybe
#
tantek
!unixtime
#
Loqi
1414705352
#
tfontaine
That doesn't account for minutes discrepancy
#
rascul
oh, true
#
tantek
doesn't look at any parameters
#
rascul
!unixtime Wed Oct 29 13:48:03 UTC 2014
#
Loqi
1414705378
#
rascul
!date 1414705378
#
Loqi
That looks like a unix timestamp! 2014-10-30 14:42:58 PDT
mlncn and Mark87 joined the channel
#
tantek.com
edited /User:Tantek.com (+211) "/* working on */ document using dated permalinks for recovering, longevity"
(view diff)
caseorganic and Pea1 joined the channel
#
GWG
!seen acegiak
#
GWG
That doesn't work...hmmm
scor, paulfitz and caseorganic joined the channel
#
rascul
GWG /msg nickserv info acegiak
EOGreer joined the channel
#
GWG
rascul: I was trying to get Loqi to help
#
joskar
tantek: Wouldn't the "fetching-permalink-from-archive" thing work for most use-cases even though the date is not embedded in the permalink? (since I guess you already have timestamps for when you linked to it in your posts / embedded replies / whatnot)
fmarier joined the channel
#
GWG
rascul: What's new with you?
#
rascul
been doing lots of work to my site lately, haven't made any of it live yet though
#
joskar
or did I misinterpret the use of what you are trying to do?
#
GWG
Oh?
#
rascul
it's better now alot :)
#
tantek
joskar - "you already have timestamps for when you linked to it in your posts" - that assumes information *outside* the URL itself. That's my point. purely by the *URL* without any side-information you can attempt recovery etc.
#
tantek
less work, less overhead for such recoverability
#
tantek
also for others linking to you
#
joskar
I can see why it is more fragile to trust your own timestamp than the permalink itself. I personally wouldn't worry about "less work" since domain takeovers very seldom happens thought
#
joskar
s/thought/though
#
Loqi
joskar meant to say: I can see why it is more fragile to trust your own timestamp than the permalink itself. I personally wouldn't worry about "less work" since domain takeovers very seldom happens though
#
aaronpk
do we need a /domain-deaths page too?
KevinMarks joined the channel
#
danlyke
joskar, I haven't been following this thread as carefully as I perhaps should have, but when you say "domain takeovers very seldom happen" do you mean "we rarely lose our own domains" (probably true), or are you talking about the domains we link to (got many examples of that).
#
@kevinmarks
#iiw @benwerd: we had a whistle-stop tour of the really tiny protocols that underlie the #indieweb
(twtr.io/sPF_rW70qA)
#
@kevinmarks
#iiw @benwerd: we talked about Quill and p3k and @withknown that provide ways to get on the indieweb now
(twtr.io/sPFcMysXD4)
#
joskar
danlyke: I meant "very rarely" more as "not frequent enough to care about speed of execution". I acknowledge that domain deaths happens all the time, but probably won't affect you more than a couple of times per year.
#
joskar
tantek: I guess my point of view is "It is easier to change your own habits than to change others." I don't think that forcing a permalink-format onto people is going to work. (although you can encourage the use of one)
#
joskar
(that said, I still think it's an interesting concept)
#
@OhhSocialMedia
RT @kevinmarks: #iiw @benwerd: we had a whistle-stop tour of the really tiny protocols that underlie the #indieweb
(twtr.io/sPG6Jh54mx)
#
@OhhSocialMedia
RT @kevinmarks: #iiw @benwerd: we talked about Quill and p3k and @withknown that provide ways to get on the indieweb now
(twtr.io/sPG6MoAbJ8)
EOGreer, fmarier, KartikPrabhu, snarfed and gr0k joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu
tilgovi: were you sending mentions through my form?
#
KartikPrabhu
aah. so my webmention form automatically sets the source as the full article. I should make some way of adding a fragmention through it
#
tilgovi
I added the fragmentions but I just got pulled away to do another thing
#
tilgovi
I'll circle back in about 10 minutes
#
KartikPrabhu
yeah I saw. fyi the spaces in a fragmention are converted to "+" signs
#
tilgovi
I should convert them before sending?
#
KartikPrabhu
for now I manually added the fragmention to your webmention and it shows up as marginalia here: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia
#
Loqi
yea!
#
kylewm
KartikPrabhu: does marginalia require the that fragment is sent in the webmention source parameter?
#
kylewm
oops sorry target
#
KartikPrabhu
depends on your webmention endpoint
#
KartikPrabhu
right now mine requires that, but that is not optimal
#
KartikPrabhu
it should just look for any fragmention with in the target document
#
KartikPrabhu
marginalia.js only needs you to put a data-fragmention parameter in your comment element
#
kylewm
cool, I feel like I could argue either way
#
KartikPrabhu
it does not care how you receive marginalia
#
KartikPrabhu
kylewm: yes. it could be argued either way. but the form interface is simpler if the endpoint is fragmention agnostic
#
tilgovi
Do we know whether adding the fragmention to the target uri confuses any of the endpoints deployed currently?
#
tilgovi
I was a bit concerned that it might.
#
KartikPrabhu
yeah I don't know :P
#
KartikPrabhu
I have even sent a webmention with a time parameter in hopes that barnabywalters will build audio annotations with it
#
tilgovi
even more reason to get it from the microformats rather than the post parameter
#
KartikPrabhu
tilgovi: true :)
#
KartikPrabhu
should get back to indiewebbing soon... so much to do
lukebrooker and Haxxa joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu
tilgovi: would be neat if hypothes.is had a micropub mode where all it does is send annotations/highlights to my own site for publishing
#
tilgovi
KartikPrabhu: you mean use the UI without our service?
#
tilgovi
or rather, without our storage?
richardlitt_ and tantek joined the channel
tantek_, KartikPrabhu, KevinMarks, tantek and fmarier joined the channel
#
fiatjaf
what is love?
xxcoeurxx joined the channel
#
fiatjaf
what is fatberg?
#
Loqi
Fatberg is a "content-centered, holistic, standards-based cloud technology stack for enterprise" http://indiewebcamp.com/fatberg
mko joined the channel
#
tantek
joskar: you're right about changing your own habits being easier. hence what I was suggesting was a practice for indieweb site owners to do themselves with their own URLs first, and second, local-link-wrap any URLs they link to that don't follow the year/date pattern.
#
KartikPrabhu
tilgovi: yes. I meant without hypothesis storing stuff for me
Pierre-O and lukebrooker joined the channel