#indiewebcamp 2014-10-30

2014-10-30 UTC
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@rockECHSprin RT @EThompson_22: Studying for American History I #griffinpride #ownyourdata @rockECHSprin @vannabbott https://twitter.com/EThompson_22/status/527461437707681793/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/527611539097145344)
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tantek found out about this today: https://github.com/w3c-webmob/sharing-urls
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tantek There's a lot of references on http://indiewebcamp.com/webactions that could (should) be added to ^^^
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GWG tantek: I emailed Jeremy Zilar.
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tantek GWG - thank you!
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GWG tantek: He's still trying to get something together.
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tantek glad to hear it
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GWG I tried when we last discussed it, and just followed up.
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GWG Anyone else planning an IWC event?
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tantek GWG - I'm looking at the planning of the next HWC event myself
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tantek GWG re: Anyone else planning an IWC event? See: http://indiewebcamp.com/2015
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tantek oops
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/
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tantek.com created /2015 (+390) "stub - since I linked to it on IRC, call to action for organizers" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/next-hwc (+0) "update 2014-11-05" (view diff)
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GWG tantek: How about November/December?
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jgarber tantek: This... I like this... http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/DC Do you, aaronpk, or anyone else fancy a trip to the Nation's Capital?
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GWG jgarber: I do. I have an uncle I can stay with
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sparverius mannn
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sparverius i work within walking distance of moz hq and i never have time to go to iw night
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jgarber GWG Excellent! I think we could have a pretty good IWC here in DC.
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GWG I hope so. I'll come down for at least some of it
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GWG jgarber: Are you new in here? I don't recall the username
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jgarber Not new, no, just an infrequent visitor in the IRC channel.
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GWG jgarber: We haven't talked though, right?
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jgarber I don't believe so, no. Pleased to make your acquaintance!
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GWG And you wrote a book
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jgarber GWG: Heh, yeah, I contributed a couple chapters to a book once. It was an interesting experience, not sure that it's for me, though.
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GWG What are your plans for Indieweb stuff?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "your plans for Indieweb stuff" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=your+plans+for+Indieweb+stuff
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jgarber GWG: I have a couple listed out on my profile page: http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Sixtwothree.org Right now I'm focusing on building a CMS for myself (written in Ruby and Sinatra: https://github.com/jgarber623/FrancisCMS ).
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jgarber GWG: How about you?
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GWG Working on a bunch of WordPress plugins for Indieweb stuff. Trying to simultaneously write for myself and a little for others
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jgarber GWG: Cool! Let's pick this conversation up again (particularly regarding a DC IWC). Hope you (and everyone else here) have a pleasant evening (or afternoon or morning depending on where you are)!
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aaronpk huh, bridgy seems to have not found my latest post.
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GWG aaronpk: Been there.
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aaronpk oh here it comes
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aaronpk that was weird
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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@kevinmarks @meat @hsjuju2 #killalldatabases http://indiewebcamp.com/database-antipattern (twitter.com/_/status/527710690832683008)
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tantek jgarber, GWG add yourselves to the DC page with your level of interest! (co-organizer, participant, volunteer, etc.)
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tantek realizes that was a delayed response and now checks the logs for edits.
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GWG tantek: I'm going to bed now.
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tantek yes! it's late on the East Coast!
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GWG It is
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Loqi [mention] http://royhanfling.com/blog/indie-web-movement/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/silos (pingback)
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@brennannovak @simonv3 there's also a weekly digest from @indiewebcamp bug @aaronpk to be added @aral @digitalWestie (twitter.com/_/status/527789275258318848)
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@Eastmad @umairh it might be a technical solution, but look at #indieweb and proponents like @kevinmarks. (I admit I still use blogger) (twitter.com/_/status/527820637184995328)
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@TerminalPixel @digitalWestie @simonv3 @brennannovak @aral I don't know of any. This was the closest I could find: http://indiewebcamp.com/Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/527824617692737536)
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tantek what is digest?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "digest" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=digest
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tantek what is newsletter?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "newsletter" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=newsletter
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tantek.com created /this-week (+39) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /weekly (+39) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /digest (+39) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+152) "link to this-week-in-the-indieweb so it's more discoverable" (view diff)
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tantek hopefully that will make it easier for other folks and folks in the community to rediscover this week in the indieweb!
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cweiske kylewm, I cannot login to your site
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cweiske I get an internal server error
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@danyork FIR On Technology Episode 2 Is All About Known And The IndieWeb http://danyork.withknown.com/2014/fir-on-technology-episode-2-is-all-about-known-and (twitter.com/_/status/527828770913148930)
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tantek.com created /thisweek (+39) "r" (view diff)
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aaronpk hmm now I kind of want to make an aggregate blog from all the entries on http://indiewebcamp.com/Posts_about_the_IndieWeb
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aaronpk then I could make an email newsletter that sent those out to people
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aaronparecki.com created /User:Aaronparecki.com/Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+780) "testing what the page looks like using templates for listing articles" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com created /Template:ArticleLink (+250) "first stab at an article link template" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Template:ArticleLink (-8) (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /User:Aaronparecki.com/Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+37) (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Template:ArticleLink (+23) (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Template:ArticleLink (+2) "try div instead of li" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Template:ArticleLink (+4) "try bullet with span" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /User:Aaronparecki.com/Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (-37) "single author property" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Template:ArticleLink (-23) "single author property" (view diff)
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aaronpk well that worked
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kylewm cweiske: I think I fixed the bug that prevented you from logging in
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@schnarfed @Eastmad @umairh @kevinmarks blogger can do indieweb too! just sign up for https://www.brid.gy (twitter.com/_/status/527853666061910016)
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cweiske kylewm, worked
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cweiske kylewm, what does that give me?
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cweiske do I see something more when I'm logged in?
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ben_thatmustbeme cweiske, if you have mp-config set up it does
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ben_thatmustbeme i get reply / post/ like urls that link to my MP-client
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cweiske ok
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cweiske I don't have it setup
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ben_thatmustbeme thats the only thing i see thus far
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ben_thatmustbeme been sort of out of the loop lately, super busy with work
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KevinMarks hm, shrewdness seems to have lost my logins
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ben_thatmustbeme mine has me as still logged in, but lost all content
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ben_thatmustbeme actually, the subscribe and search buttons don't do anything, so yeah, its basically dead at the moment
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm getting closer to getting this homescreen like web-page worked out. eventually I'll get it all figure out nice
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mko ben_thatmustbeme: is it public?
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ben_thatmustbeme mko, not yet, i want to get a bit further along
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ben_thatmustbeme but its taking me so long, i may just post it
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ben_thatmustbeme give me a few, i'll show you where i'm at
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mko ben_thatmustbeme: I've been working on an indie-auth'd accessible "Dashboard" view as my default browser homepage, but I've been having problems with IndieAuth losing the authentication. >.<
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mko I'm pretty sure it's a config issue in how I'm serving cookies right now, but it's blocking me from it being actually useful.
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ben_thatmustbeme mko, you could just set your own cookie after auth, then its all just your management of it
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aaronpk yeah indieauth has no concept of "sessions" or being logged in, it's just to identify the user
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aaronpk after that it's up to you
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mko Yeah. I do. I think it's a bug in the Node module that I'm using for auth cookies. I'm going to rewrite it to work more consistently.
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mko Oh, I'm not blaming IndieAuth at all. I actually meant to say "with losing the IndieAuth authentication" but apparently transcribed it when I was typing. I'm a bit scattered this morning.
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ben_thatmustbeme syncing files to a place to show the css styling thus far, which is pretty much just all ripped out of firefoxOS
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ben_thatmustbeme https://ben.thatmustbe.me/static/newpage/ Twitter Icon is just a placeholder for now, it will be people's faces/names
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ben_thatmustbeme still haven't worked through all their JS yet, but i want to have all the drag/drop/swipe/folders of a homescreen
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mko Neat. I like that idea and it looks like it'll be a good start to a great little homescreen.
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mko All the JS errors. lol
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ben_thatmustbeme i figure just have my contacts list look like that, then its a web-app and not just dropping icons on my desktop
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, i have been loading / going through the js slowly i want to make sure I understand it well enough to do this right
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@SammiJRay If you guys can watch cat videos and make them go viral, you can watch this: https://www.youtube.com/ #Superheroes #actorslife #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/527869399202414592)
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@benwerd Going to be talking about #indieweb tech (the ideas & tech behind @withknown) at #iiw in 15 minutes. IRC channel, please do not swear. ;) (twitter.com/_/status/527871225490440193)
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@withknown If you're at #iiw today, @benwerd is getting ready to talk about #indieweb in room I. (twitter.com/_/status/527874606103687168)
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@LifeHealthDiary Sovereignty, Privacy, your medical information longer being a source of advertising http://lifetimehealthdiary.com #OwnYourData jg (twitter.com/_/status/527876398225321984)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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@benwerd I'm demoing #indieweb ! (twitter.com/_/status/527878012146954242)
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@aaronpk @benwerd me too! #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/527878223133036544)
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indie-visitor I'm watching @benwerd demo #indieweb
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ben_thatmustbeme haha, cool
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@nobantu RT @benwerd: Going to be talking about #indieweb tech (the ideas & tech behind @withknown) at #iiw in 15 minutes. IRC channel, please do no… (twitter.com/_/status/527884924465192960)
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aaronpk https://alexgaynor.net/2014/oct/30/i-hope-twitter-goes-away/ "Sorry, no comments here. I'd much rather you wrote your own blog post or sent me an email instead. Comments are never going to happen. Stop trying to make comments happen."
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aaronpk I suddenly find myself wanting to "favorite" the fact that someone started following me
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aaronpk maybe following should be a post
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tantek aaronpk - I proposed precisely that two days ago in the W3C Social Web WG - that "x is following y" should be a post, just as "x favorited/liked y" is a post. :)
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aaronpk oh good :)
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aaronpk I'm trying to figure out what "post type" that is, so that I can start publishing them
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tantek what is a follow?
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Loqi To follow is the concept of establishing a digital relationship to another person or entity so that you can receive updates from them over a given social media channel http://indiewebcamp.com/follow
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aaronpk (I am also simultaneously regretting segmenting my URLs by post type)
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tantek restrains himself from specific comments on URL design back in the day when we last discussed this ;)
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aaronpk I should have just done date URLs for all posts in a single namespace, rather than articles, notes, replies, metrics, etc
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tantek aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 595 karma
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Loqi agreed.
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aaronpk ooooops
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aaronpk I suppose I *could* change it, but that'd be a TON of work to set up proper redirects for everything
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tantek aaronpk, now the challenge for you is to look up *when* we had that discussion (2+ years ago?)
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aaronpk checks the first commit of p3k
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ben_thatmustbeme haha, yeah I have been questioning that schema as well
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aaronpk darnit
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aaronpk it made sense at the time I swear
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ben_thatmustbeme I'm thinking of just making my archive controller redirect to a specific post though so they can be treated either way
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tantek aaronpk - I believe you made a URL design decision based on how you thought your readers would want to primarily consume your content (by type).
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aaronpk i'd have to actually rename all my files on disk in order to change my URLs
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aaronpk that sounds right
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tantek btw here's where I noted that following would be nounified in Indie Web posts, as we have nounified all other verbs we've implemented to date: http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/2014-10-27#t1414454807997
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aaronpk also I didn't have a database at the time, so could not easily separate into multiple feeds
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tantek it was on MOnday
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tantek aaronpk - I don't have a database, but I do have multiple feeds
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, i think i'll do it so /2014/10/10/1 would redirect to /notes/2014/10/10/1 but /2014/10/10 would show all entries for that day, and /notes/2014/10/10 would show all notes for that day
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aaronpk but now that I have a database it's much easier to have multiple feeds by post type or other things like I do with tags
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: that's what I would do right now except I might have notes/2014/10/10/1 and replies/2014/10/10/1 and they are different
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tantek ben_thatmust: I have /YYYY/DDD/TN where YYYY-DDD is ISO ordinal date, T is single character post type, and N is the incremental number of that post type for that date.
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tantek and you can trim characters from the end of the URL and it does the right thing
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tantek hence /YYYY/DDD/T provides all posts of type T for date YYYY-DDD
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ben_thatmustbeme ahh, my number is unique since i store everything in 1 table right now
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aaronpk oy I want to change itn ow
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tantek and /YYYY/DDD provides all posts for date YYYY-DDD
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: yeah mine aren't stored in a table :)
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ben_thatmustbeme i've been looking at solutions to that too, store in files but use DB for searching/numbering etc
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tantek e.g. http://tantek.com/2014/301/t3 - single post permalink w/o slug; http://tantek.com/2014/301/t - all notes for 2014-301; http://tantek.com/2014/301 - all posts for 2014-301
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ben_thatmustbeme going to mean rewriting all my models though... or get REALLY smart on my sql driver
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dorian aha, thanks kevinmarks for pointing me here
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tantek welcome dorian!
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: what is this "rewriting all my models" that you speak of?
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kylewm aaronpk: man I just went through the same crisis with segmenting post types into their own namespaces
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kylewm https://kylewm.com/2014/10/contemplating-a-new-permalink-layout
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aaronpk either way on mine I want to make the levels represent directories
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aaronpk I do know I want to show my "main" feed on my home page, not all posts
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aaronpk and I also know I want to have different feeds for certain types, like a "notes" feed separate from a "checkin" feed
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aaronpk but I feel like that should be a queryable thing, not baked into the way I store my files
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ben_thatmustbeme heh, tantek, I love MVC for that, model doesn't necessarily mean i have to store in a DB, just a translation from somewhere to my code... i'm thinking I just make my models pull/write to on disk files, but then cache in DB
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aaronpk I also generate a lot of posts per day, so I do want the day in the URL too
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tantek aaronpk - I do post-type-specific feeds by query (parameters in URLs)
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aaronpk especially since I have day-based URLs
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aaronpk e.g. http://aaronparecki.com/2014/10/28
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aaronpk (also http://aaronparecki.com/2014/10 works now)
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tantek I made the choice of date-primary over type-primary because dates are a known thing with a known range, whereas types are still being figured out. Thought that was a no brainer in terms of designing which should be more primary in URL / storage design (that's supposted to be longterm, thus more stable).
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tantek kylewm: I don't understand your post - https://kylewm.com/2014/10/contemplating-a-new-permalink-layout because my URL does not start with /type/year
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aaronpk oh another consideration of my URLs is that I often create metrics posts out of order (some data is imported hours after it's created, when I may have created several other posts in the mean time)
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aaronpk that's the reason I use HHMMSS instead of numeric index for those posts
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tantek aaronpk - that seems like a sensible approach
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kylewm tantek: I meant the components included in the url more than the order+exact layout
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kylewm when I said that I based them on yours and aaron's
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tantek kylewm: huh - I think the order is important
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aaronpk and if there's a conflict then I just artificially increment the "seconds" part by one until there's no conflict
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kylewm tantek: yeah order is definitely important, and I like your rationale for date first ... had to come to that conclusion on my own
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aaronpk so I think I'd want to support that format still too. I would end up with two URL formats: YYYY/MM/DD/N and YYYY/MM/DD/HHMMSS (and also YYYY/MM/DD/N-slug)
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aaronpk only potential danger there is if I somehow had over a million regular posts in a single day. but that seems unlikely. 999,999 ought to be good enough for anybody.
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aaronpk oops no. over 100,000, so I am limited to 99,999 per day
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tantek is amazed at aaronpk's *personal* big data problem.
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tantek kylewm: how do we document these URL design learnings in a way that suggests a pattern for future implementers?
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aaronpk I guess I should write a post like kylewm's based on all my irc chatter here
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kylewm and I should document my changes http://indiewebcamp.com/permalinks
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aaronpk oh man here's another great example of why you should have date-based permalinks with full path navagability
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/permalinks has a link to my tweet from 2009 about URL shorteners. I wanted to find the version of that post on my site, but in 2009 I didn't have a citation on my tweets
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aaronpk but because I knew the date of the tweet, 2009-12-08 I knew I could find it at http://aaronparecki.com/2009/12/08
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@danyork @withknown @erinjo @benwerd - FYI, we published a FIR On Technology podcast about Known and IndieWeb - http://forimmediaterelease.biz/index.php/weblog/fir_on_technology_with_dan_york_episode_2_known_and_the_indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/527912575418527745)
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@ahallicks The web is your API: feeds and actions using HTML5 and webmentions - http://werd.io/2014/the-web-is-your-api-feeds-and-actions-using-html5 (twitter.com/_/status/527913250286211072)
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Mark87 Anyone have experience or work with Enterprise Application Integration?
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cweiske what is enterprise application integration?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "enterprise application integration" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=enterprise+application+integration
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Mark87 You have multiple applications that weren't designed to interoperate and store their data in different ways and formats, and you wrap them in adapters and make them talk to each other, or present a higher level adapter that aggregates their functionality to make "one" application
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aaronpk steps away slowly
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cweiske oh, I do that at work
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cweiske for our intranet search engine
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cweiske most tools we use cannot be indexed properly
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cweiske so I had to write exports
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KartikPrabhu1 sounds dangerous!
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Mark87_ I ask because the realm of indie websites could be thought of in some ways as similar, and I just wonder if theres anything to be learned from that connection
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Mark87 For now we have webmentions and microformats to connect us
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Mark87 And I guess they serve as our wrappers/adapters
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aaronpk right, webmentions and microformats connect websites which otherwise have completely different backend and incompatible implementations
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KartikPrabhu why the "for now" ?
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Mark87 Well who knows what well think up next year or the year after
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fiatjaf what is CORS
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Loqi CORS is an acronym for "cross-origin resource sharing," a mechanism for allowing browsers to make JavaScript requests to fetch resources from other domains http://indiewebcamp.com/CORS
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KartikPrabhu well hopefully webmentions and mf2 are improved not thrown away. SOmething like how HTML is never thrown away
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KartikPrabhu does not like the Javascript hammer gfor everything
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aaronpk I'm assuming you were implying there may be new things added to the list in the future, like the recent work on actions
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Mark87 yup exactly
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Mark87 But even with webmentions, we're already tacking on things like vouch
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tilgovi got webmention sending from hypothes.is working last night
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tilgovi up on a branch
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tilgovi example: https://webmention.dokku.hypothes.is/a/AfBvA9hsTZe7qq1aJ9I0dw and http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/10/24/2/fiber-network-centurylink
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bret tilgovi++
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bret so cool!
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Loqi tilgovi has 2 karma
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tilgovi gotta make some more improvements, maybe adding fragmentions so I can annotate KartikPrabhu's site
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KartikPrabhu :D
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bret tilgovi: I dig the css too.. nice and compact
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KartikPrabhu you don't have to add anything for that! Just put a fragmention in the in-reply-to URL
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tilgovi KartikPrabhu: yeah, I know
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tilgovi lemme give it a shot
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cweiske tilgovi, are you a hypothesis developer?
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tilgovi it's just ## + quote?
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tilgovi cweiske: yep
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cweiske coolio. I had it on my list of tools to try out
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cweiske having webmention support would be awesome for replies
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tilgovi cool. send any feedback my way.
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tilgovi the biggest thing I want to change is that it's a bit of a black box right now
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tilgovi good for the blogger who doesn't want to write anything but add annotations to their site. and good for the individual who wants the bookmarklet/extension in their browser for annotating other sites.
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KartikPrabhu your source has so much stuff before the content...
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tilgovi not so good for the indie web developer who wants a script with an API like webmention.io style
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cweiske ah, now I know why I didn't install it. python
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tilgovi KartikPrabhu: yeah, progressive enhancement. It's 99% a single page client app, but there's a small static template there for the webmention
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KartikPrabhu tilgovi: well if you are prog. enhancing. maybe only load on request or something... anyway not crucial
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tilgovi cweiske: if we had the server API well documented and made it easy for you to build the front end without any Python knowledge, would that help? Then you could just implement the REST endpoints for storage.
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tilgovi and take the JS library.
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tfontaine tilgovi++
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Loqi tilgovi has 3 karma
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cweiske is the api complex?
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tilgovi not really
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tilgovi CRUD + search
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cweiske then yes
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tilgovi cool. it's high on my list.
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tilgovi anyway, I'd been promising to do this for way too long. thought I'd just drop y'all a note.
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cweiske I like to hack alternative implementations
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tilgovi i'll see if I can get it cleaned up and into production and then I'll add it to the wiki
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cweiske tilgovi, my original idea was to give people a way to annotate text on my page and send me comments about that
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cweiske and hypothesis looked like a match
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cweiske e.g. when there is a typo
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cweiske or just some comment, as medium.com provides
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JonathanNeal fragmention in a reply to?
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: good to see you! How are you doing?
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KartikPrabhu yeah for marginalia :)
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KartikPrabhu Doing good. lot of actual work stuff rather than indieweb
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tilgovi cweiske: yeah. right now that use case is covered somewhat well, but only if you want to take it as a "black box" and let us run the service or if you want to run the whole stack yourself.
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cweiske I'm the whole-stack-on-my-server type
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tilgovi isn't that why we're here ;)
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cweiske yep
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cweiske exactly
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KartikPrabhu is confused. HOw is hypothes.is helping do annotations?
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cweiske try it out
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tilgovi KartikPrabhu: can you rephrase that? I don't think I understand.
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tilgovi maybe this helps? https://hypothes.is/docs/help
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KartikPrabhu does this document have to be in the hypothesis system?
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tilgovi KartikPrabhu: no
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cweiske that's the trick :)
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KartikPrabhu aah browser extension I see
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tilgovi you add https://hypothes.is/embed.js to any page (or the user does, by bringing their own bookmarklet or extension)
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tilgovi (or, hopefully, one day maybe we just have browsers that have this, rather than just simple bookmarks)
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tilgovi (lots of hand waving)
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KartikPrabhu tilgovi: hmm no microformats yet?
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cweiske you can't have all at once
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KartikPrabhu my site could not read your post
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tilgovi KartikPrabhu: I haven't merged any microformats to production, just on the test instance at webmention.dokku.hypothes.is
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KartikPrabhu aah I see.
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tilgovi sorry for the confusion
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tilgovi And I'm quite sure I may have messed things up, anyway, since this is my first time trying this out.
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tilgovi It seems to work on aaronpk's site, but not sure about others'p
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tilgovi I think it worked on yours too when I tried it last night
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tilgovi but it just showed up as a mention at the bottom and the summary wasn't good
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tilgovi I may have improved it by the time I slept, but didn't try it again
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tilgovi obviously, though, the fragmention would be the best :-D
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KartikPrabhu tilgovi: yeah it showed up as a mention becasue it found a URL but no microformats. so it couldn't decide if it was a reply or not
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tilgovi I'll give it a shot right now. I definitely had it very broken at first.
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tilgovi Also I'm so sorry for any nonsense I'm leaving on anyone's notes as I test broken things. I looked around but didn't find whether anyone's built a validator I can use to test.
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KartikPrabhu sure. feel free to add a "u-in-reply-to" and also a fragmention (if you want) and resend the mention
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KartikPrabhu validator for?
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KartikPrabhu there are a bunch of microformats parsing test pages
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tilgovi yeah, that's what I'd like. I didn't see that in my wiki spelunking but maybe I should have ujst searched
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KartikPrabhu http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2#Parsers
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tilgovi thx
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tilgovi okay, I just tried to resend it (no fragmention yet) just to see if I'd at least improved the permalink / summary / etc
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tilgovi but I get a 500
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tilgovi here's the mention: https://webmention.dokku.hypothes.is/a/PNPuf6SwQ0uybuGxFBXS0w
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KartikPrabhu hmm
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tilgovi apologies, again, I know the code is really nasty because of all the non-static stuff
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tilgovi but look for the <main> tags
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tilgovi also, you don't have to debug this now
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tilgovi if you're busy
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KartikPrabhu tilgovi: interesting. I seem to have picked up some microformats from that page already but didn't seem to pick up a "in-reply-to" URL even though it exists... I'll debug this evening
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tilgovi np
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tilgovi I was resending that one. I had sent it last night.
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tilgovi Don't know if that causes any problem for you.
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KartikPrabhu no resending will just update it
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tilgovi is it going to be a problem if there's more than one in-reply-to?
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tilgovi I'm tempted to have one that's just the URL for the header/metadata part of my posts and one that's on the quote itself that has the fragmention
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tilgovi i'll remove the non-fragmention one for now
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KartikPrabhu tilgovi: hmm good point! I don't know :P You can update the post as you want and I'll update my code to treat it nicely :)
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tilgovi :-)
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tilgovi KartikPrabhu++
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KartikPrabhu still don't know why the 500 error. I think it does not find an h-entry and barfs :( must use good fallbacks
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 73 karma
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KartikPrabhu \o\ |o| /o/
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ben_thatmustbeme reading back, actually aaronpk, since you include time down to seconds aren't you limited to 86400 posts per day
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kylewm I think the issue was that if he had a numerically indexed post 100,000 it would be indistinguishable from 10:00:00 in HHMMSS
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ben_thatmustbeme well yes, but he could never actually reach that number since the number of seconds in a day is well below that
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ben_thatmustbeme if he started to get that high, he would be overflowing seconds in to the next day (by his move to next free second method)
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ben_thatmustbeme actually, thats an interesting question. what happens if you have multiple posts occur at 23:59:59 aaronpk?
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cweiske tilgovi, could you give me a heads up when the API is documented? cweiske@cweiske.de
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cweiske I also hang around here
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tilgovi cweiske: sure thing
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cweiske could someone with a proprietary browser (safari, IE) check if the video plays? http://cweiske.de/tagebuch/grauphel.htm#screencast
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cweiske anyone?
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tantek aaronpk, re: another great example of why you should have date-based permalinks with full path navagability, see also the write-up of archive-based dated-link repairing from last Thursday! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-10-23#t1414105046134
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dorian tantek: absolute numbers in pagination schemes while yer at it
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kylewm cweiske: plays in IE11
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cweiske thanks
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tantek dorian - as in don't do them - they don't produce re-referenceable results
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tantek also a topic I remember debating with aaronpk 2-3 years ago in IRC
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: I'm talking about two separate schemes. the first, for articles/notes/photos/checkins/etc is just an incrementing index starting at 1. I'm limited to 99,999 that way. The other, for metrics, is always HHMMSS and I can have up to 86400 of those.
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aaronpk I guess i'll have to have a special handler for how to deal with 23:59:59, probably just start searching backwards for a free slot
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tantek why not milliseconds?
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aaronpk too long URLs
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tantek in newbase60?
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aaronpk YYYY/MM/DD/HHMMSS is pretty recognizable
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tantek has yet to start encoding timestamps in newbase60
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tantek aaronpk, note that with newbase60 you could do HMS instead of HHMMSS
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aaronpk that's tempting, but less human readable
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tantek add another newbase60 digit for 60ths of a second :)
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aaronpk i'm shooting for human readable for the full URL, and compressable for the short url
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tantek and then you can record your life at 60fps :D
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aaronpk ha that might work
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aaronpk I already do newbase60 date encoding for the metrics short urls http://aaron.pk/m4YtdxM
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dorian tantek i meant don't do ?page=N (or /page/N) and have some fixed number of records per page
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tfontaine For me, it's epoch or nothing. :P
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cr 1414590483 is when exactly?
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@davidpeach1 WordPress as my IndieWeb Foundation: http://davidpeach.co.uk/wordpress-as-my-indieweb-foundation/ https://twitter.com/davidpeach1/status/527937931265064960/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/527937931265064960)
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tantek tfontaine: I use epoch days in NewBase60 for my permashortlinks
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rascul cr Wed Oct 29 13:48:03 UTC 2014
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tantek compresses to 3 digits :D
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aaronpk !date 1414590483
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Loqi That looks like a unix timestamp! 2014-10-29 06:48:03 PDT
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cr nice
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tfontaine wow.
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rascul nifty
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tfontaine Loqi++
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Loqi Loqi has 314 karma
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tantek !unixtime 2014-10-29 06:48:03 PDT
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Loqi 1414705270
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tantek um
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tantek !date 1414705270
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Loqi That looks like a unix timestamp! 2014-10-30 14:41:10 PDT
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tfontaine haha
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rascul maybe !unixtime doesn't know the timezone
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aaronpk uhh
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tantek maybe
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tantek !unixtime
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Loqi 1414705352
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tfontaine That doesn't account for minutes discrepancy
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rascul oh, true
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tantek doesn't look at any parameters
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rascul !unixtime Wed Oct 29 13:48:03 UTC 2014
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Loqi 1414705378
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rascul !date 1414705378
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Loqi That looks like a unix timestamp! 2014-10-30 14:42:58 PDT
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tantek.com edited /User:Tantek.com (+211) "/* working on */ document using dated permalinks for recovering, longevity" (view diff)
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GWG !seen acegiak
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GWG That doesn't work...hmmm
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rascul GWG /msg nickserv info acegiak
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GWG rascul: I was trying to get Loqi to help
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joskar tantek: Wouldn't the "fetching-permalink-from-archive" thing work for most use-cases even though the date is not embedded in the permalink? (since I guess you already have timestamps for when you linked to it in your posts / embedded replies / whatnot)
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GWG rascul: What's new with you?
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rascul been doing lots of work to my site lately, haven't made any of it live yet though
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joskar or did I misinterpret the use of what you are trying to do?
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GWG Oh?
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rascul it's better now alot :)
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tantek joskar - "you already have timestamps for when you linked to it in your posts" - that assumes information *outside* the URL itself. That's my point. purely by the *URL* without any side-information you can attempt recovery etc.
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tantek less work, less overhead for such recoverability
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tantek also for others linking to you
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joskar I can see why it is more fragile to trust your own timestamp than the permalink itself. I personally wouldn't worry about "less work" since domain takeovers very seldom happens thought
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joskar s/thought/though
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Loqi joskar meant to say: I can see why it is more fragile to trust your own timestamp than the permalink itself. I personally wouldn't worry about "less work" since domain takeovers very seldom happens though
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aaronpk do we need a /domain-deaths page too?
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danlyke joskar, I haven't been following this thread as carefully as I perhaps should have, but when you say "domain takeovers very seldom happen" do you mean "we rarely lose our own domains" (probably true), or are you talking about the domains we link to (got many examples of that).
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@kevinmarks #iiw @benwerd: we had a whistle-stop tour of the really tiny protocols that underlie the #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/527946925551915010)
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@kevinmarks #iiw @benwerd: we talked about Quill and p3k and @withknown that provide ways to get on the indieweb now (twitter.com/_/status/527947042564624384)
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joskar danlyke: I meant "very rarely" more as "not frequent enough to care about speed of execution". I acknowledge that domain deaths happens all the time, but probably won't affect you more than a couple of times per year.
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joskar tantek: I guess my point of view is "It is easier to change your own habits than to change others." I don't think that forcing a permalink-format onto people is going to work. (although you can encourage the use of one)
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joskar (that said, I still think it's an interesting concept)
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@OhhSocialMedia RT @kevinmarks: #iiw @benwerd: we had a whistle-stop tour of the really tiny protocols that underlie the #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/527948393038217217)
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@OhhSocialMedia RT @kevinmarks: #iiw @benwerd: we talked about Quill and p3k and @withknown that provide ways to get on the indieweb now (twitter.com/_/status/527948395449970688)
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KartikPrabhu tilgovi: were you sending mentions through my form?
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tilgovi yes
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KartikPrabhu aah. so my webmention form automatically sets the source as the full article. I should make some way of adding a fragmention through it
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tilgovi I added the fragmentions but I just got pulled away to do another thing
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tilgovi I'll circle back in about 10 minutes
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KartikPrabhu yeah I saw. fyi the spaces in a fragmention are converted to "+" signs
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tilgovi ah
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tilgovi I should convert them before sending?
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KartikPrabhu for now I manually added the fragmention to your webmention and it shows up as marginalia here: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia
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Loqi yea!
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: does marginalia require the that fragment is sent in the webmention source parameter?
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kylewm oops sorry target
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KartikPrabhu depends on your webmention endpoint
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KartikPrabhu right now mine requires that, but that is not optimal
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KartikPrabhu it should just look for any fragmention with in the target document
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KartikPrabhu marginalia.js only needs you to put a data-fragmention parameter in your comment element
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kylewm cool, I feel like I could argue either way
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KartikPrabhu it does not care how you receive marginalia
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tilgovi okay
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: yes. it could be argued either way. but the form interface is simpler if the endpoint is fragmention agnostic
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tilgovi Do we know whether adding the fragmention to the target uri confuses any of the endpoints deployed currently?
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tilgovi I was a bit concerned that it might.
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KartikPrabhu yeah I don't know :P
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KartikPrabhu I have even sent a webmention with a time parameter in hopes that barnabywalters will build audio annotations with it
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tilgovi even more reason to get it from the microformats rather than the post parameter
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tilgovi nice!
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KartikPrabhu tilgovi: true :)
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KartikPrabhu should get back to indiewebbing soon... so much to do
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KartikPrabhu tilgovi: would be neat if hypothes.is had a micropub mode where all it does is send annotations/highlights to my own site for publishing
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tilgovi KartikPrabhu: you mean use the UI without our service?
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tilgovi or rather, without our storage?
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tilgovi +1
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tantek.com created /enterprise_application_integration (+21) "r" (view diff)
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fiatjaf what is love?
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Loqi "baby don't hurt me . . . " ♫ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhrBDcQq2DM http://indiewebcamp.com/love
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fiatjaf what is fatberg?
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Loqi Fatberg is a "content-centered, holistic, standards-based cloud technology stack for enterprise" http://indiewebcamp.com/fatberg
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tantek joskar: you're right about changing your own habits being easier. hence what I was suggesting was a practice for indieweb site owners to do themselves with their own URLs first, and second, local-link-wrap any URLs they link to that don't follow the year/date pattern.
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KartikPrabhu tilgovi: yes. I meant without hypothesis storing stuff for me
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