#indiewebcamp 2014-10-31

2014-10-31 UTC
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JonathanNeal all this fragmention and marginalia talk is good stuff
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joskar tantek: I think I must have missed the part about link wrapping. Suddenly it seems a lot more feasible without resorting to "dirty tricks" :) (and it is probably more intuitive for "users" to look up a url manually if it already has the datestamp in it, so I can see its appeal)
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joskar Being a not-so-frequent writer myself, I think I am happy with the YYYY/slug type of permalink though. Don't need the date information there to remind me how seldom I do it :P
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tantek joskar if you can spare 4 characters that look like just a monotonically increasing number, you can do YYYY/DDD/slug and capture the full date without distraction :) (where YYYY-DDD is the ordinal date - open source to generate it is in cassis.js for JS and PHP)
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joskar tantek: I actually did exactly that when I first started building my site, but I didn't like how those 4 characters were staring at me! :) (also, "date +%Y/%j" did the trick just fine for me back then ;) )
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tantek indeed! I find it convenient for checking what I did a year ago :)
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tantek or 100 days ago :)
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joskar I guess I didn't want to have lots of directories with only one html-file in them. Hard to overview. (static webpage)
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KevinMarks_ !tell tilgovi using ## in fragmentions does confuse some URL parsers as that is strictly an illegal URL; I think we should change to a single #
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek KevinMarks: I think timbl would agree with you on that.
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KevinMarks_ Happy to chat to him about it
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tilgovi KevinMarks_: yes, that
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Loqi tilgovi: KevinMarks_ left you a message 48 seconds ago: using ## in fragmentions does confuse some URL parsers as that is strictly an illegal URL; I think we should change to a single #
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tilgovi but my concern here was actually that some webmention handlers might get confused
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tantek based on the conversation I just had with him about the original of URL (hint: he called it UDI to start), and the overall design ( globalidentifier#localidentifier ).
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tilgovi and think that they don't own the target resource, or some such nonsense
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KevinMarks_ overloading fragments to contain spaces is a stronger idea
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tantek you must %20 encode them there
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tantek if you use one #
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KevinMarks_ using %20 instead of + is better yes
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KevinMarks_ I was just typing that too
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tantek otherwise the " " -> "+" transform is only valid for the *query* part of a URL
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tilgovi Maybe we should be sending fragmentions in webmentions inside the body
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KevinMarks_ + was a convention I made up off the top of my head
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tilgovi I like the fragmention in the fragment part for navigation in the user agent
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KevinMarks_ and I managed to make 2 URL parsing bugs in it \o/
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KevinMarks_ yes, that fits very neatly
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tilgovi but for the webmention ping maybe it'd be safer to send the un-fraggy mention and add a parameter to the POST body
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KevinMarks_ hm
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KevinMarks_ I think we should train webmention responders to grok fragments
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tilgovi that way we're less likely to confuse a webmention client that doesn't grok the fragments
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tilgovi :-/
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tilgovi I won't pretend to know what's right here
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tilgovi but I'm happy to keep thinking and talking on it
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KevinMarks_ as comparing URLs in that context should be fragment-independent
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tilgovi yeah, we'd hope
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KevinMarks_ (the "is this a URL on my site?" test should not reject for referencing an id not in the body)
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tantek KevinMarks_: please document that as an issue on /Webmention
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KevinMarks_ did you find webmention implementations that rejected fragmetns, tilgovi ?
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tilgovi KevinMarks_: I *thought* that maybe aaronpk's did, but I was also testing and changing lots of things so maybe it was another issue
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tilgovi OH, I know
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tilgovi At one point I was not sending the fragment as the target_uri, but I did have it in my in-reply-to
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tilgovi that got, unsurprisingly, rejected
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tilgovi and maybe rightly so
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tantek tilgovi: I believe it is correct to require those to be consistent - "target" param, and *what your page links to*
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tantek consistent like equal
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tilgovi though it's not so far out of comprehensible that a nice handler could choose to tolerate it
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benatkin_ waves
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tilgovi Loqi: tell tantek I agree that the param and the link should be the same. I was trying to be too tricky, worrying too much about whether the fragmention in the target uri would confuse the receiver.
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KartikPrabhu support fragments in target (obv) :P
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KartikPrabhu the %20 vs + thing is trickier
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kylewm can someone explain why %20 is better or more appropriate?
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KartikPrabhu I think "+" is not valid URL wise ?
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pdurbin well, there is for example: https://plus.google.com/+PhilipDurbin
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kylewm I get it I think. with only one # the definition of fragmention is "any fragment with a space" rather than "fragment with a plus",
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JonathanNeal could someone catch me up on tonight’s fragmention convo?
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Loqi [mention] http://runwhere.com/?p=184 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (pingback)
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KartikPrabhu it mainly began with https://hypothes.is/ supporting fragmentions (tilgovi uses and devs it i think), I suggested making hypothes.is into a micropub client so indewebsites can use it. There were concerns about webmention receivers not groking a target URL with a fragmention. Then, some concerns about making fragmentions compatible with URL stuff and using only one # and %20 instead of +
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@colocofg P.O.S.S.E – Publish on Your Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE #different #news (twitter.com/_/status/527992466818211841)
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kylewm KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 74 karma
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KartikPrabhu pdurbin: I woudn't rely on Google for standards :P UI maybe
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JonathanNeal bummed they didn’t tell me, i would have tweeted about them!
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KartikPrabhu about? who?
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JonathanNeal they support fragmentions, right?
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JonathanNeal or is my script not used on the internet anymore?
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KartikPrabhu I am not sure. tilgovi devs it let me test
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JonathanNeal well no matter that’s why we cc licensed it, right? let them make their own, just as long as they can’t tell us to stop making improvements :)
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KartikPrabhu hmmm https://webmention.dokku.hypothes.is/a/PNPuf6SwQ0uybuGxFBXS0w##reading+the+Web does not seem to do anything particular so maybe not. They seem to have their own way of doing "annotations" which might be more complex.
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pdurbin KartikPrabhu: are you saying + isn't valid in URLs?
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KartikPrabhu pdurbin: I am not sure
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joskar KartikPrabhu: They are totally valid. It's just that they mean a literal plus (and not a space) when it is in a URL.
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KartikPrabhu joskar++ yeah that seems more correct :)
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Loqi joskar has 4 karma
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joskar The + -> ' ' is an HTML standard apparently, not an URL one.
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KartikPrabhu aah gotcha
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: https://hypothes.is/what-is-it/ says they are following the Open Annotation COllaboration which if I recall had some complicated method for annotations
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JonathanNeal Got it.
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JonathanNeal Bummed I wasn’t apart of such a collaboration. I want something to be broken or need a feature.
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JonathanNeal So that I have something to write!
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rascul yeah, + is html standard for queries
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JonathanNeal apart/a part/part
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rascul http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#h-17.13.4.1
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rascul i don't have an html5 reference
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rascul here it is http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/forms.html#url-encoded-form-data
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: maybe implement marginalia on your own site and show them! ;)
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JonathanNeal show who?
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KartikPrabhu_ JonathanNeal: show the collaboration people that all this rdf complicated stuff is not really needed
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joskar KartikPrabhu: Fun thing: I've spent all week thinking about implementing "Medium-style comments on the indieweb" (using fragmentations) and I hadn't heard of marginalia until today. Looks nice!
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KartikPrabhu joskar: thanks :)
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KartikPrabhu I was almost dared to make it by tantek once I claimed it was easy :P
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joskar :)
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KartikPrabhu joskar: let me know if you use marginalia.js or make your own since more implementations the better :)
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joskar KartikPrabhu: Seeing as I like to tinker with things, I will probably make my own eventually. (after all, it seems easy enough :P )
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joskar ...and I _think_ I already accept webmentions with fragmentations. Haven't tested it though.
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ben_thatmust so moving over from other room
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ben_thatmust GWG was lamenting that there are no more IWCs in 2014
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GWG ben_thatmust: For the log...you are proposing the idea of an online Indiewebcamp of a longer duration than a Homebrew Website Club
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ben_thatmust well otherwise it would be a HWC not IWC
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ben_thatmust brb, my irc client is unhappy
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GWG ben_thatmust: I was about to say...it may be that an IWC Online is a day event or a half-day event, not a 2 day event. There are multiple options
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GWG I like the idea of a two day
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GWG I like the idea that at physical IWCs, there is more remote interaction
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ben_thatmust indeed
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ben_thatmust hopefully get participation from all those that have been unable to attend any physically
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GWG ben_thatmust: At the IWC that was simulcast, I could barely hear things in Portland.
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GWG aaronpk really stepped up in streaming IWC Cambridge
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ben_thatmust indeed
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ben_thatmust including a close up shot of my biz card, haha
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GWG We have Talky, and Google Hangouts, and other options for presentations.
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GWG I haven't asked bear how the product is evolving. Right now, the former is missing some compelling aspects of the latter
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GWG Specifically, saving the video and passive viewing.
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ben_thatmust i like the hangouts idea a lot for the breakout sessions
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ben_thatmust it forces a limitation to room size
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ben_thatmust just need to work out the hangouts on air bit and we can share the rest of it
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GWG ben_thatmust: It may work.
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ben_thatmust also, just rewrote all my cron scripts... hopefully that will work a bit better now, and not keep getting incorrect URLs sent to twitter
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ben_thatmust and now for sleep
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KartikPrabhu joskar: be careful around here about claiming "easy", you might just have to make it :)
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joskar KartikPrabhu: Yeah, I know...that's why I'm brushing up on my javascript right now instead of writing lab reports ;)
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joskar KartikPrabhu: Currently I've selected all u-in-reply-to's which have fragmentations on the current document. That was the easy part :S
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KartikPrabhu yeah. the hard part is moving them in place and having a good UI! all the best! would be great to see another implementation and UI :)
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KartikPrabhu joskar: also fragmention not fragmentation ;)
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JonathanNeal auto-correct gets me on that one still. Next time I need to add it to my dictionary.
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joskar KartikPrabhu: I stand corrected :)
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GWG .
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@aerezk 2. Named by @jeffjarvis. Does #leoslaw also apply to the indie web? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/528041448134807552)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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indie-visitor mschutte
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KartikPrabhu welcome mschutte
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mschutte thanks KartikPrabhu
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KartikPrabhu mschutte: do already have a website or looking into the indieweb?
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@loicmathaud brid.gy a l'air très intéressant pour avancer dans l'#indieweb. Il faut que je commence á implémenter webmentions chez moi d'abord (twitter.com/_/status/528105207964499968)
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@loicmathaud Impression qu'á #BlendWebMix on rêvait de créer le prochain gros silo. L'année prochaine il faut que je me force proposer un sujet #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/528107875449569281)
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@davidbgk @loicmathaud des meetups #indieweb ça serait cool ;) (twitter.com/_/status/528127004508291072)
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@emmanuelc @davidbgk @loicmathaud BlendWebMix IndieWeb meetups cool… what ze fuck ai-je envie de dire (twitter.com/_/status/528130481535995904)
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tantek a bit of URL history that I learned yesterday: http://tantek.com/2014/304/b1/url-started-as-udi-conversation-w3c-tpac
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MariusL Hi everyone
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davidpeach hello
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davidpeach has anybody got checkins working in wordpress then posse them to foursquare?
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MariusL Just a quick question: is there any physical Indieweb presence in London?
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davidpeach MariusL : not sure. I'm from tamworth, myself.
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MariusL davidpeach: thanks! I'll keep looking. A meetup, maybe?
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MariusL oh and a second question. I'm a UX designer and I'd like to help. Is that something you need, or is it developers only at this point?
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GWG davidpeach: I haven't even tried.
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GWG davidpeach: I don't go many interesting places
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davidpeach GWG: hehe. fair enough. I might take a look at that when get a chance. I setup posse to flickr last night on SNAP.
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davidpeach GWG: I just need to take some interesting photos now.
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GWG davidpeach: Photos are easier
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GWG pfefferle: What are the requirements for being added to the Indieweb Installer?
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pfefferle GWG no requirements yet… I am sorry if I forgot one… make a pull request and I will add it...
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GWG pfefferle: It isn't 'forgot'. I was wondering if there were guidelines. I was going to submit some. I see that snarfed has a request in for some.
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pfefferle GWG not yet, but I think we should define som… perhaps depending on the indimark
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GWG pfefferle: Opening some issues
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GWG pfefferle: Did you give thought to the profile data stored in the user table issue, by any chance?
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GWG pfefferle: I have a plugin that isn't on Github, for H-Cards, that I want to add the ability to cache h-card data to, and I'm trying to figure that issue out.
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pfefferle GWG the TGM-Plugin-Activation plugin that I use can also reference zip files
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pfefferle GWG depending the profile thing: I thought about that for a bit, but I am still no huge fan. If you are getting a lot of WebMention/Pingback spam it also spams your User table. And if you clear the spam you also have to think about removing the profiles.
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pfefferle GWG this is mainly a problem if you use spam filters like akismet
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pfefferle GWG what is https://github.com/dshanske/syndication-links doing?
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GWG Pfefferle: Syndication Links adds post meta boxes for POSSE links. rel-syndication attempts to add links automatically.
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tommorris indiewebsters may find this interesting - https://governmenttechnology.blog.gov.uk/2014/10/31/vcard-and-icalendar-are-now-government-open-standards-2/
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tantek tommorris: in particular "The UID should be a persistent, resolvable identifier which we suggest should be the URL of a Web page where the contact information is published." which is a huge victory for our use of UID and u-uid in microformats.
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tommorris psd gets it. :)
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tommorris I hadn't looked at the makeup of the gov.uk Open Standards Body. The people I know on there are sane: JeniT, John Sheridan and psd. That they are making sensible decisions is unsurprising but reassuring.
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tantek that's great news - yes - good people
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tommorris http://publicappointments.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/applications/543d1c80e4b07e661e64f629 - they are seeking volunteers. Perhaps I could apply
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tantek tommorris++ do it! (health and priorities permitting of course)
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Loqi tommorris has 60 karma
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GWG Tantek, did you see what ben_thatmustbeme was suggesting?
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ben_thatmustbeme which suggestion? using the carebear stare to destroy the moon?
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tantek wat
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ben_thatmustbeme heh
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ben_thatmustbeme last night GWG was lamenting that there were no more IWC in 2014
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ben_thatmustbeme i suggested perhaps we just do one online only
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ben_thatmustbeme google hangouts would work great for breakout sessions
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pfefferle nice idea!
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GWG Lamenting may be a bit strong a word.
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GWG But an IWC Online weekend might be fun.
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tommorris https://alexgaynor.net/2014/oct/30/i-hope-twitter-goes-away/
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tommorris zomg, Twitter, your URL handling is amazing. https://twitter.com/tommorris/status/528226508989816833
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@tommorris @prowlmedia @aral @LeighBarlow Nope https://t.co/Jnl7MHezim–mention_distinction :) (twitter.com/_/status/528226508989816833)
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kylewm are URLs allowed to have emdashes?
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aaronpk let's see if bridgy finds my syndicated photo. facebook URLs are confusing as hell.
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kylewm indeed
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aaronpk oh... does bridge ever re-fetch my post URLs looking for new syndication links?
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tommorris kylewm: WP URLs have a lot of them.
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aaronpk I definitely manually POSSE'd that to twitter and facebook way after I published the original
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kylewm aaronpk: yes it does
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kylewm every ~2 hours
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aaronpk ah ok. so I assume it'll eventually find my original post and send the comments to me?
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aaronpk right now the last couple in my log say "no post links found"
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tommorris is enjoying aaronpk's halloween costume.
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aaronpk :D
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kylewm snarfed made some changes recently to try and sort out all facebook's various photo urls
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kylewm so hopefully it will
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aaronpk also twitter
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tommorris last time I went out on halloween, I had left a wedding in a suit and attempted to go to a gay bar. the doorman asked whether I'd come as an Apprentice candidate. which is a pretty mean burn.
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@LifeHealthDiary Sovereignty, Privacy, your medical information longer being a source of advertising http://lifetimehealthdiary.com #OwnYourData jg (twitter.com/_/status/528240062983852032)
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ben_thatmustbeme quiet today
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ben_thatmustbeme agaric = mlncn... mind blown
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mlncn ... as the IRC nicknames cycle ...
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ben_thatmustbeme so any other thoughts on an IWC Online?
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aaronpk hah! like a massive talky.io session?
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ben_thatmustbeme indeed
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ben_thatmustbeme don't know what limits we will hit with people, but it will be great for the breakout sessions
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aaronpk or maybe hangouts since it actually has some pretty nice tools for that
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aaronpk the whole p2p video thing doesn't actually scale well past a few people
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ben_thatmustbeme i figure hangouts on air for all of it too so its all stored right to youtube and easily downloaded from there
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ben_thatmustbeme probably one hangout for the session and just try and keep the room clear for those that want to talk, just keep an eye on the chat room too
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ben_thatmustbeme give people who don't have the ability to be at any of the locations in person the chance to join in
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aaronpk oh and still try to have a couple of in-person locations?
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ben_thatmustbeme that too, but i figure this way scheduling and setup is much easier, we could do them on a shorter schedule and possibly more often
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ben_thatmustbeme the idea of the online bit it to try to not give preference to those on location
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kylewm danlyke: do you know that your rss feed doesn't have per-entry timestamps?
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aaronpk I like the idea of "IndieWebCamp Online" where the only physical locations with multiple people are organized entirely by people at that location and are semi unofficial locations that way
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah. I think we could really get some new people in to the group this way too
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Loqi [mention] http://davidmead.withknown.com/2014/hi-dan-i-use-instead-of-posse-its-a-pesos linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/PESOS (webmention)
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danlyke kylewm Flutterby.net one, or Flutterby.com one? (Probably both...)
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kylewm danlyke: specifically http://www.flutterby.com/mainlong.rdf
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danlyke Aha. Looks like neither that nor http://www.flutterby.net/User:DanLyke_status.rss has 'em. Okay, will fix...
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kylewm honestly I'm initially not liking the idea of an online IWC
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kylewm face to face is just so much better...
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aaronpk of course face to face is better
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kylewm but making it available to people who don't live near the coasts is good
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aaronpk I also think it's really hard to do effective remote participation during the in-person events
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aaronpk we've had mild success with it, but it's a lot of work to make it work really well
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aaronpk I think if we focused on *only* remote participation then we could make it work way better
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kylewm any ideas how to cope with timezones?
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@oncletom @loicmathaud @davidbgk #indieweb c’est pas déjá un autre silo ? :-p (twitter.com/_/status/528254350192545792)
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kylewm indieweb n'est pas un silo!
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danlyke kylewm and that's sent me down a rabbit hole of "pubDate" and RSS .93 and... Anyway, I'll figure it out in a bit.
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danlyke And lots of "it'd be nice if these were 404s but they're now bad links".
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ben_thatmustbeme as far as timezones thats an issue, but we could do several start/finish times. so we start it somewhere in Europe morning and once US gets to a reasonable time we redo intros for a "start time US" then same for conclusions/demos
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ben_thatmustbeme in theory we could have break out sessions going on while people are doing introductions and such
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GWG Regarding Hangouts...anyone know anything about Hangouts On Air?
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ben_thatmustbeme GWG, i was looking that up, i think its all automated, you set a start time, and invite people and it automatically streams/records to youtube
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GWG ben_thatmust: Think anyone has a philosophical problem with Google footing the bill?
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ben_thatmustbeme I don't. I guess i could see people having a problem with needing a google account to join. but at least its not google+ account needed anymore
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ben_thatmustbeme they only require you have gmail
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GWG I don't either.
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GWG I'd love to use Talky, but Hangouts on Air is designed for this.
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GWG Even a hacking day followed by a demonstration would be a fun activity.
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ben_thatmustbeme indeed
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: If you are calling people out...you want the whole weekend. A one-day event if it is remote may be doable too.
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ben_thatmustbeme tries to parse that
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ben_thatmustbeme what do you mean?
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: When it is a physical event, and people are coming from out of town, a two day event makes sense because you want to make the trip worth it.
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ben_thatmustbeme I see
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GWG But, a one-day event is an alternative option for a remote-only event.
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ben_thatmustbeme Yes, but I think the hacking session/presentation day could be a good remote event, its always optional attendance
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ben_thatmustbeme so i don't see any good reason not to have a second day
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: I was more saying that no stone should be unturned.
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ben_thatmustbeme agreed, its going to be a different format, so its good to look at new options
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ben_thatmustbeme Here's a question... i'm going to create a page on the wiki for this... should i put it for 2014 or 2015?
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ben_thatmustbeme being all online its possible to do it tomorrow, but we need some co-ordination and plan worked out before that
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ben_thatmustbeme its a question of if planning for early nov or early dec is a good idea with all the holidays
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GWG Well, no one has to visit anywhere
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GWG I think November/December could work.
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GWG I say, set up the 2014 page for now.
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GWG It can be the prototype
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: Tell me when it is up, I'll add on.
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ben.thatmustbe.me created /2014/Online (+593) "initial create" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme just created a stub for it, we can work on sections
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tantek good day #indiewebcamp - since this community has broadly adopted, deployed, implemented u-syndication and u-in-reply-to, I've updated those properties from "draft" to "core" in h-entry: http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry#Properties (with more documentation of core, draft, proposed properties).
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tantek please take a look and feel free to provide feedback here, in #microformats or on the http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry-feedback page
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GWG aaronpk: Indieauth is doing it to me again.
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /Template:IndieWebCamp (+27) "adding 2014/Online" (view diff)
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GWG Okay...no wiki for me.
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ben_thatmustbeme GWG whats going on?
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: Indieauth keeps having issues with my login
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GWG aaronpk keeps having to reset it
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ben_thatmustbeme whats it doing?
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ben_thatmustbeme tries entering your URL to log in
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aaronpk GWG: it should be using a cached version so it should only be failing if you click re-scan
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GWG aaronpk: I haven't clicked rescan.
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ben_thatmustbeme it pulls different caches if i enter https://david.shanske.com/ vs just devid.shanske.com
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GWG aaronpk: I think the problem is the http vs https
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GWG When I first logged into Indiewebcamp, I was http only
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GWG aaronpk: Any way to purge all instances of me and I'll try from scratch?
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GWG Or would that just make things worse?
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aaronpk I can do that, but it's not really be any different from you just clicking re-scan
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GWG aaronpk: So you think I should click rescan?
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GWG aaronpk: But to ben_thatmustbeme's point, I seem to have different rescan dates for http vs https
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aaronpk They are treated as completely separate identities by IndieAuth.com
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GWG But if I put in a domain without the protocol...
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aaronpk The it assumes http
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GWG Oh
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GWG And my http redirects to https
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GWG aaronpk: I'm stumped.
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aaronpk What exactly is the problem you're having right now?
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GWG Unknown error retrieving https://david.shanske.com:
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /2014/Online (+1020) "/* IndieWebCampOnline 2014 */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme GWG, what did you enter at login?
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ben_thatmustbeme https:// or just david. or http:// ?
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ben_thatmustbeme they seem to have different results
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GWG I tried all three. None work.
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@zdfs I think I’ve bought in to this whole IndieWeb thing. (twitter.com/_/status/528270489568149504)
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aaronpk Is that after clicking one of the providers?
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GWG aaronpk: Correct
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aaronpk ahh
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aaronpk Ok yeah it's the ssl issue again. I still don't know why it fails to validate your cert after a "while"
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GWG Any suggestions?
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aaronpk Anybody more familiar with ruby who might be able to help understand what's happening? It sounds like a big with the ruby http client I'm using
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aaronpk I could just have a cron job restart IndieAuth.com every hour since that seems to make it work
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GWG aaronpk: Can you reset one more time? I'll reset the TOTP option and get in that way. I lost the code when my phone did a factory reset
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GWG That will hold me until further notice
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aaronpk Ok sure. Give me a sec. On tiny keys.
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aaronpk Done
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GWG Okay...code loaded
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ben_thatmustbeme weird that there was no error message after that
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ben_thatmustbeme "Unknown error retrieving #{me_parser.url}: #{e.message}"}
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ben_thatmustbeme the exception didn't have a message??? SSLError is a seperate exception
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david.shanske.com edited /2014/Online (+507) (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /2014/Online (+308) "/* Brainstorming */" (view diff)
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: That good to start?
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah
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david.shanske.com edited /2014/Online (+263) "/* Brainstorming */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /2014/Online (+2) "/* IndieWebCampOnline 2014 */" (view diff)
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tantek ben_thatmustbe: I like this /2014/Online idea - keep running with it!
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GWG Fixed that
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GWG I just added one more idea
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GWG tantek: Feel free to join in
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk, i've never had that trouble with mechanize, trying to reproduce
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ben_thatmustbeme maybe its a bad version of the gem?
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tantek GWG - happy to watch and help only where needed on this one. Go for it.
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david.shanske.com edited /2014/Online (+221) "/* Timezones */" (view diff)
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: thanks. Might also be specific to the ubuntu version of things
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david.shanske.com edited /2014/Online (+8) "/* Organizers */" (view diff)
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GWG tantek: Are you planning to attend?
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rascul online? how very interesting
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GWG rascul: It's worth a shot. I think it may be rocky the first time, but like the video last time, we can iterate
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rascul once i see some dates i will very likely add myself :)
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GWG rascul: Got any to propose?
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GWG I'm free 11/15 and 11/16
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rascul probably needs to be a weekend for me
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GWG The 15th and 16th are a weekend, aren't they?
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rascul oh they are, i probably should have looked at november instead of october ;)
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rascul i'm fine with that weekend
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: You up for 11/15-11/16?
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GWG That is two weeks from today
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ben_thatmustbeme I think i could work that
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ben_thatmustbeme you think its enough time to get people? it is short notice
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ben_thatmustbeme at the very least it will be a fun weekend
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GWG I don't know. But it is remote.
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GWG That may affect it.
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GWG We could poll the chat room
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GWG And see who is interested.
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GWG I say if we can get 5 or 6 people available as a core...
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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KartikPrabhu ruh roh
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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GWG Can someone shut Loqi off?
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi is done
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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rascul oh wow
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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rascul liar
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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sparverius hmmm
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@tgb IndieWebCamp - http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 (twitter.com/_/status/528279906761715712)
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david.shanske.com edited /2014/Online (+109) "/* Technology */" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
expandrew joined the channel
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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ben_thatmustbeme ummmm
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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ben_thatmustbeme tries to duct tape Loqi's mouth
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GWG tgbrun: I think you broke Loqi
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ben_thatmustbeme GWG aaronpk, I have been able to reproduce the error, !!!! SSL ERROR: hostname does not match the server certificate
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ben_thatmustbeme RelParser::SSLError: RelParser::SSLError
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ben_thatmustbeme maybe not the best time for that
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GWG Loqi, you're killing me
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@atmospunch loqi shut the fuck up #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/528281172841738240)
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@atmospunch #ownyourdata #ownyourbot 8===>~ (twitter.com/_/status/528281400923807744)
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ben_thatmustbeme wow, that worked...
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sparverius ben_thatmustbeme: what did you do
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ben_thatmustbeme i didn't do it
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ben_thatmustbeme but apparently any other tweet at it, fixed it
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ben_thatmustbeme it seems
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GWG So, ben_thatmustbeme, two questions
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GWG 1. What did you learn about my Indieauth problem?
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GWG 2. Any more IWC-Online thoughts?
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ben_thatmustbeme part 2, no
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ben_thatmustbeme part 1... it seems to think "SSL ERROR: hostname does not match the server certificate"
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm trying to reproduce the issue again
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: Wildcard cert?
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ben_thatmustbeme possibly, but why would it work at first and then stop
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ben_thatmustbeme it is definitely some timeout issue
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ben_thatmustbeme firing up wireshark, mayebe i can figure it out
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aaronpk omfg loqi
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ben_thatmustbeme https://github.com/drbrain/net-http-persistent/issues/51 this looks to be the same issue, or at least similar, not that it was ever really solved
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm trying now without the ca file specified to see if its unreproducable
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ben_thatmustbeme its definitely timeout based though, after like 5 minutes it fails to recognize the cert
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: i'm glad you have been able to reproduce it! thanks!!
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rascul 184 lines of Loqi flood ;)
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Loqi woot!
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aaronpk that's weird. I only see one webmention in the logs that would have caused that
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aaronpk although it's not verified
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ben_thatmustbeme well it doesn't have to do with the ca-file being specified, i did a poll, sleep 5 minutes, poll again and I get the same error
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ben_thatmustbeme weird, gwg, you have a wildcard cert that includes other entries as alt-names
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ben_thatmustbeme Common names *.shanske.com
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ben_thatmustbeme Alternative names *.shanske.com shanske.com www.shanske.com david.shanske.com cdn.shanske.com cdn2.shanske.com
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ben_thatmustbeme wonder if thats what is causing it
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aaronpk what doesn't make sense to me is why it would be verified once and then fail to verify later
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ben_thatmustbeme the ssl session times out after 300 seconds, it must do something slightly different to reconnect
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aaronpk hm maybe I can tell the http client to not cache ssl sessions?
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Loqi [mention] http://www.tombruning.com/?p=464 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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aaronpk fixed that... another reason not to use fixed-length fields in database tables
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aaronpk I think his site was retrying the webmention because it was returning a 500 error
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ben_thatmustbeme i have to head home, i'll look at it more tonight
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aaronpk cool thanks
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bear ben_thatmustbeme - that is common(ish) with wildcard certs
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@jrmatheny Setting up webmentions thru @withknown and bridgy, probably skipped some steps somewhere. Hmm. Somebody say hi, please, and let me see. (twitter.com/_/status/528314341339041792)
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@jrmatheny Collecting comments and web mentions from around the web http://randalmatheny.com/2014/10/31/webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/528315595263979520)
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joskar KartikPrabhu: I now have a working prototype (in Firefox at least) of fragmention annotations: https://joskar.se/-MG6
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joskar !tell KartikPrabhu: I now have a working prototype (in Firefox at least) of fragmentation annotations: https://joskar.se/-MG6
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ben_thatmust okay, trying to recreate again with just ruby mechanize, make sure its nothing you are doing with your code
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ben_thatmust testing with other ssl sites with and without wildcard ssls
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ben_thatmust maybe we can nail it down
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ben_thatmust it might be your server GWG
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GWG ben_thatmust: How do I keep finding ways to break things?
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ben_thatmust yeah, worked on two different servers, both redirect to SSL one with wildcard, one without
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GWG ben_thatmust: What did I do or not do though?
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ben_thatmust that is a very good question.. it would have to be something wrong in nginx config
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ben_thatmust i wonder if its an nginx bug
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ben_thatmust aaronpk, as a hack you could always just have it re-create @agent for each connection
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GWG I could change my Nginx config,I suppose
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ben_thatmust i'm trying to find another nginx server with wildcard ssl
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ben_thatmust to see if thats the issue
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ben_thatmust or at least see if i can recreate it anywhere else
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ben_thatmust found another site with nginx AND a wildcard SSL... i'll be able to tell you in like 4 minutes if this site has the same issue
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ben_thatmust it does not have that issue