#indiewebcamp 2014-11-01

2014-11-01 UTC
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ben_thatmust GWG: here is a simple file to test your server and see when/if its fixed https://gist.github.com/dissolve/a6b9147f142cfb04812e
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ben_thatmust if you want a site that also uses nginx and wildcard but does not have this issue, i used aralbalkan.com
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GWG So, I wonder what the issue is
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ben_thatmust possibly keep-alive settings, no clue
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aaronpk ben_thatmust: oh good idea. that seems reasonable
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aaronpk wow this is a fascinating story of how this guy got his instagram account stolen https://ello.co/gb/post/knOWk-qeTqfSpJ6f8-arCQ
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ben_thatmust so now after all that, any other thoughts on IWCOnline?
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GWG I want to attend
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aaronpk maybe early 2015?
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GWG aaronpk: I was prepared for November.
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aaronpk oh! wow
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aaronpk I find it hard to actually coordinate anything starting Halloween through New Year's
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GWG aaronpk: I thought ben_thatmustbeme was coordinating it
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aaronpk good!
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GWG I would help
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GWG Attendees is the issue
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aaronpk that's what I mean by coordinate
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GWG aaronpk: You mean showing up?
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aaronpk there's only 3 weeks between halloween and thanksgiving, then it's early december and people start taking vacations and stuff, then it's christmas and new year's
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aaronpk this used to be my least favorite time of year when I was freelancing cause clients would be on vacation and not having me do work
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GWG I'm in a unique position
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GWG I don't care abut Halloween, Christmas or New Year's.
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ben_thatmust GWG, we could do it as HWC Online for 2014, give us time to work out all the kinks in using hangouts on air, etc
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aaronpk oh that's not a bad idea
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GWG ben_thatmust: I was thinking it would be a kinks working out event
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GWG What is in between a HWC and an IWC?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "in between a HWC and an IWC" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=in+between+a+HWC+and+an+IWC
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ben_thatmust kink event... lets not use that term for it
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GWG It could be a Hack Day
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aaronpk hack days are good
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GWG That seems like in between an HWC, which is a Hack Night, and a IWC which is a Hack Weekend
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aaronpk so that'd be like an opening session and then presentations at the end of the day?
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GWG aaronpk: I was thinking about this
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GWG An IWC has a day of discussing concepts...
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GWG What if people break up into groups of people interested in working on similar implementations?
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ben_thatmust we could work it as more of an IWC primer
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GWG So, it is more of a...implement features on your site sort of day
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ben_thatmust IWC but we don't care if not many show up, if its 5 people its 5 people, but we get a good amount testing for it
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GWG But we gorup like people together.
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aaronpk group how? over several hangouts?
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ben_thatmust i like having the open discussion of people working through ideas etc
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ben_thatmust several hangouts is actually an idea i really like you can record them all through on air, and it forces a max size
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GWG But, like a full IWC, the groups can be figured out that day
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GWG Although we can always ask for proposals on the wiki page
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ben_thatmust why? can still work out the groups that day
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ben_thatmust instead of rooms it becomes Chat 1, Chat 2, etc
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ben_thatmust s/Chat/Hangout
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Loqi ben_thatmust meant to say: instead of rooms it becomes Hangout 1, Hangout 2, etc
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ben_thatmust you can also just create them on the fly
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GWG ben_thatmust: TO give people ideas
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GWG Why can't the guest list include a section.. THinking of working on: ___
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aaronpk man the comments on that article make me really reconsider using SMS/phone as a security mechanism at all. both for 2fa and account recovery. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8541313
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@themezoom RT @kevpolley: New post: The Indieweb - I'm taking control - http://www.kevinpolley.com/the-indieweb-im-taking-control/124 (twitter.com/_/status/528372516256219136)
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tantek.com created /snsr/index.jsp (+390) "Document how the user got here and how to fix the situation" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /snsr/index.jsp (+2) "a" (view diff)
krendil, tantek, KartikPrabhu, chrissaad, EOGreer, Deledrius_, cweiske, willowbl00, wolftune, Deledrius, krendil_, loic_m, Pierre-O, Sebastien-L, glennjones, jsun, ejpfauth and LauraJ joined the channel
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@ShaneHudson It would be amazing (and creepy) to walk around the streets and see everyone's personal site. Feels very #indieweb :) https://twitter.com/ShaneHudson/status/528501526516736001/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/528501526516736001)
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@FrankJWest RT @ShaneHudson: It would be amazing (and creepy) to walk around the streets and see everyone's personal site. Feels very #indieweb :) http… (twitter.com/_/status/528510148411924480)
alexhartley, alexhart_, friedcell, Pierre-O, bitraten, EOGreer, ejpfauth, mlncn, scor, jsun, cmhobbs, loic_m, paulfitz, brianloveswords, jsun_, willowbl00, tgbrun, chrissaad, levertourist, danlyke_, Reykjavik, reederz, snarfed, wolftune and willowbl001 joined the channel
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GWG No one has said anything in here in hours.
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pdurbin not even Loqi. quiet. too quiet
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Loqi woot!
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pdurbin that's better :)
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GWG pdurbin: What's indienew with you?
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pdurbin hmm. well, I keep thinking I'd like to add search to my site
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GWG I'm moving furniture. When I finish rewiring my computer, I may get back to some minor tweaks of my various plugins before feature addition
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GWG I've been reading on performance, which isn't exciting, but useful
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pdurbin GWG: do you have a performance goal? so many milliseconds or whatever
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GWG pdurbin: Not really. This is more about a better way to do things. The original way was quick and dirty. I can't move on to better things if the code is like that
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pdurbin so more of a refactoring
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cweiske now that i'm finished with my note sync server, I'll implement my own search server application in php
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cweiske probably with elasticsearch backend
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GWG pdurbin: Two weeks ago, I switched from storing my data in a 3 variables to an array, so I could add variables without changing the code significantly.
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GWG This is for reply-context, so next is profile pictures and author data.
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pdurbin GWG: ok
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pdurbin cweiske: you have Java installed already?
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GWG pdurbin: I also have a few other tweaks like that. I have to do more testing, because occasionally, other people use my code. I'd hate to break someone's stuff.
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pdurbin yeah. no regressions please
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GWG Also trying to push an online Indiewebcamp with ben-thatmustbeme
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pdurbin cool, I think ben_thatmustbeme is one of the folks I met in Cambridge
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GWG He was there, I believe
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pdurbin thinks he was the guy who took the train
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GWG He was taking a computer train, I believe
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pdurbin wow, even fancier
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GWG commuter, oops
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pdurbin :)
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GWG pdurbin, would you attend an online IWC?
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pdurbin meh. seems like it might come to Cambridge again next year
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GWG pdurbin, hope I can get away next time.
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GWG But part of an online event is working on improving the process for having remote participants.
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pdurbin oh sure
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ben_thatmust GWG any luck figuring out what wrong with your config?
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ben_thatmust hey tantek
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GWG None whatsoever
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GWG Wrong seems like a strong word.
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ben_thatmust heh
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GWG incompatible
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ben_thatmust its such an obscure test, its not surprising may never notice it
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ben_thatmust s/may/many
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Loqi ben_thatmust meant to say: its such an obscure test, its not surprising many never notice it
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GWG I will be looking at my SSL configuration
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GWG ben_thatmustbe, what about SNI?
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ben_thatmust blame bear... no reason, just because
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bear :)
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ben_thatmust thats possible GWG
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ben_thatmust hehe
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GWG How do I test it?
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bear your SSL config?
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GWG I don't want to buy more IPs
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GWG No, SNI being the culprit
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bear the qualyis tester will show you if your setup supports SNI
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bear what is your domain?
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Loqi A personal domain is a domain name that you personally own, control, and use to represent yourself on the internet http://indiewebcamp.com/your_domain
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ben_thatmust bear, its genuinely weird, polling GWG's site (david.shanske.com) and it works at first
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bear polling using what?
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ben_thatmust but if you let it time out then reconnect, it seems to think that the SSL key does not match that domain
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GWG That is why SNI comes to mind
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ben_thatmust https://gist.github.com/dissolve/a6b9147f142cfb04812e
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ben_thatmust i created a test in ruby / mechanize, which is what indieauth uses
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ben_thatmust s/indieauth/indieauth.com
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Loqi ben_thatmust meant to say: i created a test in ruby / mechanize, which is what indieauth.com uses
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GWG Note to self, learn Ruby
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bear note to GWG - don't learn Ruby
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ben_thatmust to learn ruby... run irb, then type (some object).methods.sort
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ben_thatmust and continue
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ben_thatmust haha
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GWG I like to learn enough to read the code effectively
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ben_thatmust ruby is pretty straight forward for just reading it
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bear yea, ruby is very readable - I was just showing my language bias, sorry
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ben_thatmust bear, you prefer python?
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bear yes
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GWG I played with python.
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GWG I just have been sticking to PHP by necessity
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bear python, go, nodejs (because of dayjob), C
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp - ben_thatmust GWG bear
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ben_thatmust good morning
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bear o/
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ben_thatmust oh, i am getting closer to things things working https://ben.thatmustbe.me/static/newpage/
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ben_thatmust its still really messed up, i have a lot of functionality i need to rip out still
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GWG Good Morning, Tantek.
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ben_thatmust but you should be able to swipe now
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ben_thatmust does not seem to work well on chrome mobile yet
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GWG Swipe doesn't work in Dolphin.
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GWG Today my big project is reassembling my computer. I was rearranging my work area.
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ben_thatmust thats always a good place to start
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GWG I hope to be done so I can accomplish an Indiewebcamp goal involving queries
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GWG I blame Ikea.
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bear ben_thatmust - I wonder if your issue with ruby's mechanize and david's site is from the cert chain he uses containing the anchor certificate
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GWG bear, can you elaborate?
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GWG I followed the instructions I thought.
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ben_thatmust I've been trying to reproduce the issue without ruby/mechanize to confirm its not the client software
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ben_thatmust it is returning an exception from the openssl lib though
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bear I was scanning google for mechanize ssl issues and found a couple that reference it not being able to verify ssl if the cert chain had issues (depends on OpenSSL version on local computer)
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ben_thatmust ditto to that, getting in to cert chains is a little past me
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ben_thatmust bear, i have reproduced this with multiple versions of openssl, and it does verify the first time
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ben_thatmust just not the second
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bear let me try with python requests - it uses pyOpenSSL to verify
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ben_thatmust cool
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bear yep - python requests is failing - requests.exceptions.SSLError: hostname 'david.shanske.com' doesn't match either of 'www.weneca.com', 'weneca.com'
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bear let me make sure I made the request properly
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ben_thatmust the second request correct?
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bear python requests does no caching at all - so all requests are exactly the same across the wire
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GWG It's the SNI then
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bear i'm working on another check to confirm
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ben_thatmust me too
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bear the version of the requests module for python did have an SNI glitch
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bear so I'm confirming that I am using the proper code
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ben_thatmust i'm trying to use just openssl s_client
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GWG The server will return the Weneca certificate if no host name is passed.
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ben_thatmust actually i'm pretty sure its not a problem of the client. i was able to run the same test on a server with SNI by the same client
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ben_thatmust and it passed
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GWG Odd.
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bear hrm
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bear just repeated the test with what i've used in the past for SNI and now it's working
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ben_thatmust if only openssl s_client -reconnect would let me pass a time before reconnect
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bear {'Connection': 'keep-alive', 'Accept-Encoding': 'gzip, deflate', 'Accept': '*/*', 'User-Agent': 'python-requests/2.4.3 CPython/2.7.8 Darwin/14.0.0'}
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bear <Response [200]>
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bear that is what python requests is showing me for gwg's site now
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ben_thatmust woops, just noticed i wasn't outputting the exception message correctly in that gist i posted, just updated it
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bear ben_thatmust - have you seen https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4685736/openssl-server-name-indication-support-in-nethttp
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bear and also https://github.com/drbrain/net-http-persistent/issues/51
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bear after I updated my test to ensure that the python requests module passes a hostname it is working every time
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ben_thatmust bear, if i intantiate a new agent each time, it works every time, indieauth.com keeps that running though
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bear Indieauth is using keep-alive?
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ben_thatmust also, bear, gist? i'd love to compart languages
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bear yea, working on a gist now
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ben_thatmust compare*
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ben_thatmust i wonder if maybe the reconnect just doesn't do SNI for some reason
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bear ben_thatmust - https://gist.github.com/bear/56401974a8f7b762d7dc
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bear ben_thatmust - that is what I was thinking from the reading of that second link above https://github.com/drbrain/net-http-persistent/issues/51
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bear specifically https://github.com/drbrain/net-http-persistent/issues/51#issuecomment-27538049
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ben_thatmust hmm, it looks liek they they somewhat ignore this issue, https://github.com/drbrain/net-http-persistent "# if you are done making http requests, or won't make requests for several
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ben_thatmust # minutes
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ben_thatmust http.shutdown"
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bear so it's holding the socket open
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bear and the web server doesn't realize that it's a new host request
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ben_thatmust but that would be odd for it to throw an error saying that its hostname doesn't match
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ben_thatmust unless net-persistent assume that it doesn't need to send servername since it is still established
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bear right
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ben_thatmust so then it sounds like a bug in net-http-persistent not respecting timeout values returned by the server
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bear timeout value of what?
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ben_thatmust session
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ben_thatmust doesn't really explain why these tests work on other servers that also use SNI though
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bear could be that his server is not forcing the socket to be closed
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bear when the session timeout is reached
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bear so mechanize just goes ahead and reuses it
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ben_thatmust hmmm, also the other servers i tested on, while they do use SNI, its only for subdomain selection, the cert returned is still *.domain
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ben_thatmust if i don't give it the servername option (from openssl)
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ben_thatmust so i just need to find a server that doesn't do that
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ben_thatmust used raw net-http-persistant in ruby, and i get the error, so its lower level than mechanize for sure
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bear my script for testing ran 7 times with a 5 minute pause - all clean
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bear 5 min 10 sec pause I should say
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alexhartley Evening all. Following on from not being able to get brid.gy to work on my known install, web mentions seems to be working fine https://stream.hartley.cc/2014/its-too-early-for-these-shenanigans-im-confused
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bear hi alexhartley
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alexhartley but i'm still getting: Giving up this target. {'request': u'GET https://stream.hartley.cc/2014/53523543245', 'code': 'BAD_TARGET_URL', 'error_description': 'Unable to get target URL.', 'http_status': 410}
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bear have you chated with the bridgy folks about it?
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alexhartley hi bear
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alexhartley yeah but they didn't seem to know what was wrong. It's even more confusing as it used to work.
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alexhartley I thought it might be an https thing but when I disabled it, still the same result.
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bear ah
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bear I would leave a !tell message for one of them with your latest example above
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bear so they can respond when they are online
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alexhartley I've disabled the firewall, still no joy. Really stumped.
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alexhartley This is a link to the brid.gy output. https://link.hartley.cc/h
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ben_thatmust yeah bear, i think you were right in pinpointing net-http-persistant. i'm reviewing their code now. i might be able to offer them a fix
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bear alexhartley - I would create a pastebin or github gist of this info and then use the loqi bot to leave a message for them
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alexhartley Cool. Thanks bear. How do I leave a message? Sorry I'm quite new to IRC.
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bear !tell alexhartley this is a message to you
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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bear now when loqi sees you active, it will deliver that message
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alexhartley Ah right cheers. I've created a gist here: https://gitlab.hartley.cc/alexhartley/gists/snippets/2 so will leave a message.
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Loqi alexhartley: bear left you a message 8 minutes ago: this is a message to you
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@Johannes_Ernst @scottjenson Posted here: https://t.co/bPrjSg2JKp. Pointing to my own blog to follow #indieweb "own your content" principles. (twitter.com/_/status/528648245803642880)
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alexhartley !tell Hi snarfed, sorry to be a pain, but still having issues with my known install and brid.gy. It seems to work fine with normal web mentions so not sure why I'm seeing an issue. I've created a gist here: https://gitlab.hartley.cc/alexhartley/gists/snippets/2 Just wondering if you could help me out?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ben_thatmust GWG, follow this https://github.com/drbrain/net-http-persistent/issues/62 and then you can get aaronpk to update the lib once they fix it
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snarfed hi alexhartley! looking now
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alexhartley snarfed: thanks!
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snarfed alexhartley: so bridgy has definitely managed to find your syndication links and send you wms before. e.g. https://stream.hartley.cc/2014/ah-alcohol-now-you-are-my-best-friend-tomorrow-youll
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alexhartley snarfed: yeah
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snarfed looking at the example now. btw, you said you disabled https, but it looks like your site is still https...?
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alexhartley Yeah I disabled it to test then re-enabled.Do you want me to disable again?
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alexhartley I got exactly the same output from brid.gy though but just without the https
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snarfed alexhartley: yeah, confusing, same issue as before. your known install claims https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/facebook/537627227/10153180496667228/535981838 doesn't link to https://stream.hartley.cc/2014/only-way-hes-making-that-call-in-leigh-on-3 , but it definitely does
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alexhartley Yeah it's weird. I'm baffled.
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snarfed do you have shell access on your server? can you try curl https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/facebook/537627227/10153180496667228/535981838 and make sure that fetches ok?
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snarfed does known have logs? they'd be worth looking at if so
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alexhartley I sent myself a web mention from http://alexhartley.withknown.com/ and that appeared
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snarfed sure, that's not the issue. the error message from known says it fetched the bridgy page and couldn't find a link to your known post…which is obviously not true
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alexhartley I can only find apache server logs, I can't find known logs. The apache error.log just says the same as the brid.gy output.
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snarfed ok. and the curl?
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alexhartley You may have to talk me through that. What am I curling?
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snarfed https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/facebook/537627227/10153180496667228/535981838
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alexhartley Ok will ssh in and do that now
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snarfed hey known users, have you ever noticed that known 404s all HEAD requests?
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snarfed i just noticed now. seems kinda broken
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snarfed (e.g. curl -i -I http://stream.withknown.com/2014/davebriggs-no-thats-going-to-be-totally-fine )
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alexhartley snarfed: I just did curl on that url and got: https://gitlab.hartley.cc/alexhartley/gists/snippets/3
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snarfed yeah well that'll be the problem
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snarfed where is your server?!?
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alexhartley That's right isn't it? curl that page from the server.
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snarfed yes
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alexhartley erm it's either London or Amsterdam. It's just a digital ocean one.
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snarfed huh. is your server in russia? http://www.geocodeip.com/ says 178.62.11.154 is in russia. hard to believe they've blocked app engine entirely, but i guess possible
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snarfed …ok…
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alexhartley eh?
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alexhartley Checking now....
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alexhartley It should be in London?
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alexhartley http://a.hartley.cc/A2bh/25u8yDuq
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snarfed ok. some geocoding dbs may have that IP wrong then
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snarfed looking more
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snarfed :/ the requests don't make it through to bridgy - google blocks them beforehand - so i have no visibility into them (headers, etc)
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cr hmm. google servers love hating on good webarch
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cr try sending HEAD to nearly any of them, nope..
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cr try reading the URIs for that matter. or keyword-matching them for easy referally. theyre just these giant 64-char hashes
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snarfed cr: this is blocking specific countries (due to export restrictions) by geocoded source country
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snarfed https://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=4537
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snarfed trying to find details in the docs
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snarfed so alexhartley, your next step might be to ping DO and see if they have any idea why google's geocoding db thinks your IP is in an export restricted country (e.g. Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Sudan Syria)
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snarfed here's example TOS that discusses that: https://code.google.com/projecthosting/terms.html
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snarfed alexhartley: btw is that your IP alone? or do you share it with other users?
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alexhartley Ok thanks. I'll email them now...
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alexhartley I think it's mine alone
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snarfed if the latter, maybe also ask if other users on your IP have been abusing it (spam, malware, etc)
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snarfed ok
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snarfed known users, re HEAD 404s, i filed https://github.com/idno/idno/issues/548
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alexhartley snarfed: is it definitely an ip thing? I've just put that address in an ip finder and it says London? http://a.hartley.cc/1g3no/5EPP5OSD
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snarfed alexhartley: largely IP but not solely. there are many geocoding dbs, so it's probably only wrong in some (or only google's)
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alexhartley Ah right
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snarfed e.g. the geocoding site i linked earlier thinks it's in russia
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alexhartley Oh yeah it does, sorry missed that.
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alexhartley snarfed: Ok put a ticket in. Thanks for your help!
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snarfed alexhartley: np, sorry for the trouble!
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alexhartley snarfed: Not your fault! Just really happy I'm getting somewhere with it. Was losing hope :D
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alexhartley snarfed: I'll let you know what they come back with.
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Loqi [mention] http://pfauth.com/blogging-advice/becoming-part-indieweb-movement/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/why (webmention)
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alexhartley snarfed: ok I got a reply https://gitlab.hartley.cc/alexhartley/gists/snippets/4
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alexhartley No very helpful
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snarfed alexhartley: wow fast
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alexhartley I'm guessing it's a standard answer.
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snarfed hmm. and also seems unlikely. i highly doubt google (etc) defaults to thinking that unknown IPs are from iran
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alexhartley Weird that it worked previously. It was still the same IP address.
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snarfed yeah
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snarfed anyway. frustrating. definitely feel free to send them that bridgy url and the full response body - and response headers, you can get them w/curl -i
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alexhartley Excellent, I'll do that. Thanks for all your help.
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cweiske pdurbin, yes
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kylewm would anyone advise against getting into Django? cc KartikPrabhu
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sparverius django is excellent for rapid development
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sparverius i suspect for most of the uses of people here, it is in the higher tier of frameworks you might want to start with
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sparverius i have zero knowledge of scaling it, but like i said, "most of the uses of the people here"
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kylewm sparverius: cool, thanks. I've done everything in Flask so far, but was thinking about trying Django for another project to be better informed
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bear kylewm - django is a great framework for web apps - it has more "built in" items than Flask
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bear IMO
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sparverius kylewm: i use flask as well
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sparverius one thing i was looking into was building all of my future stuff under one existing MVC application
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bear I need more hours in the day - started today thinking I would get some indieweb work done on my Flask app and got nothing done
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: I wouldn't advise against DJango
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: joskar left you a message 1 day ago: I now have a working prototype (in Firefox at least) of fragmentation annotations: https://joskar.se/-MG6
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KartikPrabhu joskar: looks great!
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joskar KartikPrabhu: Thanks :)
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joskar Also, I sent you a mention to your Marginalia post, but the link seems off. Is this some anti-spam measure?
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joskar (it links to your own domain)
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KartikPrabhu from that same article?
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joskar Yes
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KartikPrabhu did you use my form?
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joskar I think so, can't remember now
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joskar But I remember seeing an "Accepted" in a browser window, so I must have done that :)
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KartikPrabhu yeah. the link looks weird let me see what happened
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bret Just got a copy of http://www.amazon.com/Two-Scoops-Django-Best-Practices/dp/098146730X and really digging it
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KartikPrabhu joskar: your artilce has a u-url with href = "" blank so mf2py used the title as a fallback! (this is strange behaviour)
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KartikPrabhu maybe use href = "/"
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joskar KartikPrabhu: That would not resolve to the current page, but to my domain
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KartikPrabhu is href="" supposed to be currecnt page?
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KartikPrabhu joskar: yeah just realised
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KartikPrabhu ok this is a mf2py bug
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joskar href="" should trigger relative URL resolving, which would be the current page. (I have also set the <base href="..."> so this would be easier to parse out of context)
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KartikPrabhu joskar: yeah. I think mf2py is ignoring blank href's I filed a bug https://github.com/kartikprabhu/mf2py/issues/46
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joskar But nice that you were able to find the culprit so fast :)
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joskar KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 75 karma
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KartikPrabhu I'll get to fixing it not very soon... busy week ahead. kylewm want to look at https://github.com/kartikprabhu/mf2py/issues/46 might be some idiot code I wrote
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KartikPrabhu joskar: temporarily I'll add the url to your response by hand
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: do you know what this liine is for https://github.com/kartikprabhu/mf2py/blob/master/mf2py/dom_helpers.py#L23
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kylewm it replaces ""'s with None
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kylewm (those three lines, rather)
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KartikPrabhu hmm yeah that seems to be the culprit
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KartikPrabhu let me see the parsing rules and guess why I put them there
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KartikPrabhu i think I put those in there to treat blank values as no values, but that is wrong in hindsight
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@ejpfauth Fascinated by @indiewebcamp and how they encourage people to own their identity + content. Started experimenting: http://pfauth.com/blogging-advice/becoming-part-indieweb-movement/ (twitter.com/_/status/528693969593856000)
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