#indiewebcamp 2014-11-04

2014-11-04 UTC
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myfreeweb hello?
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kylewm myfreeweb: hi :)
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myfreeweb looks like I'm joining this whole thing: https://unrelenting.technology – been working on a custom engine for a while, it's still a massive todo list, but at least it works with quill and displays the…
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myfreeweb … notes :-)
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kylewm myfreeweb: awesome! haskell no less
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myfreeweb yeah, that's the project(s) I'm learning Haskell on
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myfreeweb started with the storage library, https://github.com/myfreeweb/gitson
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kylewm great way to learn
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@deanna Yesssssssss! Brought to you by @withknown: Free My Data http://freemydata.co/ #indieweb #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/529426371987009537)
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kylewm myfreeweb: looks like a great start, nice job getting it working with quill
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myfreeweb thanks :)
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KartikPrabhu gRegor`: oh hmm maybe skip this week then? I have to prep for a conference over the weekend too
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: gRegor` left you a message 5 hours, 26 minutes ago: Don't think I can make HWC this week
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gRegor` KartikPrabhu: Sounds good
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KartikPrabhu ok will edit the wiki later tonight
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@kevinmarks RT @brienthess: You back up your computer. Why not your social media posts? http://freemydata.co/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/529434978086834176)
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@kevinmarks RT @deanna: Yesssssssss! Brought to you by @withknown: Free My Data http://freemydata.co/ #indieweb #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/529435111100809216)
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@kevinlovestech I use G Docs + IFTTT. RT @brienthess You back up your computer. Why not your social media posts? http://freemydata.co/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/529436204077678592)
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@kevinmarks “Don't throw it all away.” http://freemydata.co/ @dataliberation @therealfitz @dataportability #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/529437151646457857)
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KevinMarks Anyone seen https://thegrid.io
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@Cpt_AAdams RT @kevinmarks: “Don't throw it all away.” http://freemydata.co/ @dataliberation @therealfitz @dataportability #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/529438236012068864)
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kylewm KevinMarks: discussed briefly here http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-10-15#t1413412617370
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kylewm actually here http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-10-15#t1413416269702
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@jacarandachick RT @deanna: Yesssssssss! Brought to you by @withknown: Free My Data http://freemydata.co/ #indieweb #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/529439069399711744)
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@elfpavlik RT @t: braindumped "vouch" #webmention #antispam protocol extension: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-09-28#t1411927207068 thoughts? http:///irc/2014-11-03 (ttk.me t4YN1) (twitter.com/_/status/529471683380658176)
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@elfpavlik @w3cmemes could you enable #WebMention for http://w3cmemes.tumblr.com/ maybe just delegate it to http://webmention.io/ | https://webmention.herokuapp.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/529471838288891904)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/t/516749008979890177/529471683380658176 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-09-28#t1411927207068 (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/t/516749008979890177/529471683380658176 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-11-03 (webmention)
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@Uebyn RT @deanna: Yesssssssss! Brought to you by @withknown: Free My Data http://freemydata.co/ #indieweb #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/529480634717057024)
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@hugoroyd RT @brienthess: You back up your computer. Why not your social media posts? http://freemydata.co/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/529513550143053824)
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@AAinslie RT @brienthess: You back up your computer. Why not your social media posts? http://freemydata.co/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/529517840685346816)
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KartikPrabhu joskar: I sent a webmention from https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/joskar-marginalia to your article... wondering what happened...? moderation?
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hugoroyd have you seen https://userdatamanifesto.org/2.0/ ?
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joskar !tell KartikPrabhu: My parser was fatally allergic to some URL in your document and segfaulted, leaving no trace. I've fixed it now though, thanks for letting me know!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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barnabywalters If this became supported by UAs and web frameworks it could make micropub much less lossy: http://www.w3.org/TR/html-json-forms/
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Loqi barnabywalters: aaronpk left you a message on 11/3 at 11:13am: thanks! Fixed the logs!
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barnabywalters aaronpk: excellent, thanks!
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barnabywalters as it’s a middle way between form-urlencoded (which has ubiquitous but completely inconsistent support) and going upper-case-Semantic and insisting on JSON-LD everywhere
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acegiak GWG: just got prepopulation of post editor working through jQuery
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acegiak https://github.com/acegiak/prepopPost
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davidpeach hello people
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ben_thatmust hello
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GWG acegiak: Usage?
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2014-11-05-homebrew-website-club (+44) "/* Where */ No Chi this week" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2014-11-05-homebrew-website-club (-121) "No Chi this week" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Main_Page (+0) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ next" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Events (+982) "/* Upcoming */ next HWC" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Events (+2948) "/* Upcoming */ HWC through end of year" (view diff)
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@joelgaines Make my health data understandable! http://blog.lifetimehealthdiary.com/doctors-need-create-culture-health-literacy/ #OwnYourData (twitter.com/_/status/529671252328583169)
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@LifeHealthDiary Make my health data understandable! http://blog.lifetimehealthdiary.com/doctors-need-create-culture-health-literacy/ #OwnYourData (twitter.com/_/status/529671254060830720)
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aaronpk html json forms would be sweet
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KartikPrabhu yo
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: joskar left you a message 6 hours, 42 minutes ago: My parser was fatally allergic to some URL in your document and segfaulted, leaving no trace. I've fixed it now though, thanks for letting me know!
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KartikPrabhu wow I segfaulted a parser with just a URL!
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joskar Yup :)
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joskar I was probably very tired when I wrote that code
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KartikPrabhu was it the fragmentioned URL?
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joskar No, it was this one: '//themes.googleusercontent.com'
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joskar I had already coded a guard against that case, but apparently I had forgotten to write 'else'. *doh*
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KartikPrabhu oh! without the http yeah those can be tricky
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joskar But it wasn't the lack of a scheme that did it. It was the complete lack of a path ('//themes.googleusercontent.com/' would have made it)
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KartikPrabhu cool my comment also shows on the side... good work :)
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joskar Strange that I hadn't noticed before, really.
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joskar Of course it does! :)
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joskar (it doesn't on the translation though, but I'll probably never fix that :P)
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joskar KartikPrabhu: It should look better in wide screens now as well. (I hope?)
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KartikPrabhu joskar: the little button thing show up on the immediate right of the paragraph when I view it at the original text size, but if I make the text bigger using browser zoom at one point, the buttons go stick to the right edge of the screen
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KartikPrabhu some position:absolute trouble I guess
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joskar It sticks to the right edge as long as the full comment can't be expanded in the margin of the article.
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KartikPrabhu aah I see...
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bret.io edited /manifesto (+157) "/* Other Manifestos */ Added userdatamanifesto.org" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu that is clever but then it is sort of hard to tell which paragraph it belongs tpo
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joskar That's why I now highlight the paragraph when you hover the button :)
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KartikPrabhu of course. I am nit picking your UI at this point ;)
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joskar Criticism is always good :) I don't claim to do UI perfectly ;)
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joskar ...and I dindn't really figure out how to do it properly without hardcoding stuff in Javascript. So this is a compromise.
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bret.io edited /Micropub (+255) "/* Brainstorming */ Added note about HTML JSON Form Submission standard to micropub discussion" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu sweet. the paragraph highlighting is neat
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KartikPrabhu joskar++ for cool marginalia implementation
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Loqi joskar has 5 karma
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joskar :)
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bret.io edited /Micropub (+177) "/* HTML JSON Form Submission */ Added some discussion links" (view diff)
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joskar KartikPrabhu: Thanks for taking your time to give feedback (and crashing my code ;) ), it's just what I need :)
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aaronpk if html forms get JSON then it makes a ton of sense for micropub endpoints to support JSON too
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joskar is not thrilled about JSON forms.
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aaronpk why not?
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aaronpk seems like a relatively sane attempt at making html form data more well structured
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joskar Nested structures means I need to implement a real parser => no regex-fu! :/
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aaronpk uhh
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joskar :P
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aaronpk please tell me you're not parsing form-encoding with regex
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joskar I'm not parsing form-encoding with regex.
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joskar Happy? :)
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aaronpk yay
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aaronpk we'll just leave it there
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joskar I probably didn't even lie, now that I think about it.
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bret aaronpk: should micropub support both form-encoding and json?
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bret or would it be one or the other
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aaronpk I suppose it could support both. that's what the content-type header would be for.
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aaronpk the question is whether micropub endpoints are interested in supporting both formats
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KartikPrabhu won;t they have to if micropub clients decide to adopt it
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bret to support a form based client right now that submits json would require the client to parse the form data and encode in json right?
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bret or are there ways of submitting json right from the browser
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aaronpk browsers only make form-encoded requests
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aaronpk i mean you could create a textarea with JSON in it, but that would be JSON wrapped inside form encoding
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bret ew
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aaronpk right
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aaronpk actually handling both kinds of inputs isn't as hard as it sounds
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bret http://stackoverflow.com/a/22195193/1287889 sounds like it would kind of work too except its kind of a hack http://stackoverflow.com/a/22195193/1287889
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aaronpk oh yeah ajax of course
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bret "You'd probably be better off sticking to application/x-www-form-urlencoded data and processing that on the server instead of JSON. Your form doesn't have any complicated hierarchy that would benefit from a JSON data structure."
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aaronpk but basically you create a preprocessor that parses the JSON input before the rest of your app logic runs
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aaronpk i've done this in both PHP and Ruby a long time ago
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bret i forget if you spoke to this already, but rather than csv fields, did you consider built in form arrays?
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aaronpk that actually isn't part of form-encoding, it's a hack
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bret most form-encoding parsers support it though don't they?
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aaronpk most environments will convert duplicate named parameters ending with [] into an array
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aaronpk I think I'd be ok with formalizing that in micropub
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bret the array stuff? or csv
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aaronpk array
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bret array hack*
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bret rgr
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bret i tend to agree as well, as having to further parsed an already parsed POST body was a bit of a gotcha
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk with that in mind, I could actually make my GPS tracker submit form-encoded requests by just sending a bunch of "location[]" values
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bret.io edited /Micropub (+693) "/* Brainstorming */ Added notes about form arrays over csv" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ adopting that json encoding for forms server-side as a parse of form-encoding seems doable
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aaronpk i'm not sure I understand that sentence
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KevinMarks_ as the main difference from currenlt implementaitons is handling multivalued selectors consistently
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KevinMarks_ the problme we had hen discussing it before was that server-side handling checklists was language/library dependent
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kylewm +1 to formalizing the [] array hack in micropub
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KartikPrabhu gRegor`: thanks for editing the wiki about no HWC, forgot to do that last night
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gRegor` np
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davidpeach Could anybody help with a bit of initial feedback on my font size / style on my articles? Ive been staring at it and need an outside opinion if possible?
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gRegor` davidpeach: Sure
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KartikPrabhu link?
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davidpeach thanks. http://davidpeach.co.uk/wordpress-as-my-indieweb-foundation/
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gRegor` I think it looks good
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gRegor` Anything in particular you're thinking of changing?
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KartikPrabhu davidpeach: good choice of type and colour IMO
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gRegor` Nice responsive text sizing too
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davidpeach thank you KartikPrabhu
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davidpeach and thanks gRegot `
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davidpeach *thanks gRegor `
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KartikPrabhu davidpeach: one nit that I would have is that the top menu has a lot of items and so on small screens you have a page full of links.
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davidpeach been staring it so long cant tell any more he.
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KartikPrabhu maybe a collapsed menu is good?
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davidpeach ah ok. funnily enough I was thinking of removing some links. thanks for advice.
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davidpeach it does collapse in reduced width (have to refresh)
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gRegor` Minor thing: the first 'highlight' is a quote from IWC wiki, the second appears to be your own words, just in a call out. blockquote might be good for those
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gRegor` And maybe a slight differentiation between one from another site / highlighting your own words
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KartikPrabhu davidpeach: aah yeah the menu does collapse if I load in a small viewport... excellent!
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gRegor` I really like pull quotes. http://gregorlove.com/2013/05/1153/
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davidpeach think I might watch that vid!
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KartikPrabhu i hate pull quotes. I don't know when they are supposed to be read
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gRegor` Haha
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gRegor` Oh, it's a great video, davidpeach. By indiewebcamp's own adactio :)
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gRegor` KartikPrabhu: I think a good one can be read any time / entices people. But they can be overused / poorly placed, for sure.
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KartikPrabhu just that they are something interrupting the reading flow and demanding attention
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KartikPrabhu I'm developing a "pull quote blindness"
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gRegor` Interesting
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KartikPrabhu here is how I did "pull quotes" they are still in the reading flow: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/line-mode
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gRegor` I suppose I may not use them correctly always, either, since it's usually text that's not in the main article (like that example)
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gRegor` It's a quote from the video that was a good summary
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reedstrm gRegor`: that's how I read it - saved me watching the vid :-)
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davidpeach gRegor ` Have you heard adactio on The Web Ahead? a great episode
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KartikPrabhu hates internet reading habits
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KartikPrabhu davidpeach: there are a couple with adactio on the Web Ahead if I recall
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gRegor` KartikPrabhu: At a skim, all the different indentations on that page seem uncomfortable
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KartikPrabhu yes.
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KartikPrabhu I don't want skimmers
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KartikPrabhu <get off my lawn>
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gRegor` It would be uncomfortable to read is what I mean
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davidpeach yer there are. both good
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KartikPrabhu possibly
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gRegor` Subheadings line up, except for "HTML is Awesome"
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reedstrm Recently I've taken to reading on my tablet, mostly to get Firefox Reader mode. I'll see what these look like w/ that.
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KartikPrabhu gRegor`: they all line up on the right ;)
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gRegor` But in the middle of the page? Odd
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KartikPrabhu yeha I have a very unconventional grid set up
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gRegor` I like when I make it smaller that the paragraphs line up, at least. ;)
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KartikPrabhu ha! you and your orderliness
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reedstrm gRegor`: in reader mode, the pull-quote styles very nicely in stream, light-grey w/ a quote bar on the left.
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gRegor` Cool. Never tried Firefox Reader. Extension?
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KartikPrabhu of course! advantages of writing good HTML :P
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gRegor` KartikPrabhu: Haha, well yeah, but it's also easier on the eyes. Aids readability. :)
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reedstrm Nope -standard bit for android version. Desktop is work-in-progress.
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KartikPrabhu <shrugs> I like a little chaos
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reedstrm Lifesaver on the phone for reading 'just the text' of ad and image heavy pages.
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gRegor` I'm only nitpicking cause I know you can take it, KartikPrabhu :)
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KartikPrabhu yeah... <get off my lawn> ;)
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gRegor` Damn kids.
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Loqi hehe
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KartikPrabhu yeah the huge screen grid (width > 75em) is very experimental
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KartikPrabhu intentionally so
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reedstrm KartikPrabhu: when is that article from? no hints inthe url
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reedstrm ah found it
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KartikPrabhu all my meta is at the end of the article
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reedstrm KartikPrabhu: looks good in reader mode as well. aCtaully ,both your sites are so clean that I'd never bother w/ reader mode. I like you'
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KartikPrabhu :D
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reedstrm grr/ ttypo
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reedstrm yours in particluar, KartikPrabhu, in the narrower, tall screen.
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KartikPrabhu <o> \o/ <o> \o/
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reedstrm KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 76 karma
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reedstrm gRegor`: (and others who don't know) reader mode is triggered by the little 'open book' icon at the right end of the URL bar. On android only. Safari apparently has something similar, according to my mac-using colleagues.
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gRegor` Don't encourage him, reedstrm. ;)
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aaronpk car2go is getting bike racks in portland
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aaronpk i'm gonna have to add multi-mode segmented trips to my site now
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gRegor` Heh
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KartikPrabhu ha!
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reedstrm gRegor`: good design should always be encouraged. Even (especially?) in the incorrigible.
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gRegor` :)
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reedstrm aaronpk: oh, that makes even more sense than racks on buses. You have that already, I'm sure?
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aaronpk of course :)
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aaronpk and also inside the max
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reedstrm The max? I don't speak Portland ...
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reedstrm So, you need multimodal for all those as well (not to mention walking/bus, etc.)
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aaronpk lightrail
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aaronpk yeah I haven't been tracking bus/lightrail/streetcar trips at all. I want a clever way to do that.
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Loqi gives aaronpk a clever way to do that
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reedstrm Actual racks? Cool. Here they just allow it, limited weekday hours (basically non-rush hour), and only two per car.
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reedstrm This is derived from the on-body/phone tracker data, right?
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aaronpk yeah I have a gps tracker app on my phone. but for car2go trips I download the logs from their website
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reedstrm Ah so it's combining disparate logs into one trip, I see.
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aaronpk http://www.trimet.org/v3/images/bikes/bikemax.jpg
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reedstrm Sounds like a similiar problem to OSM linking segments into a roadway.
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KevinMarks I want a directions app that understands bike+public transport routing
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Loqi gives KevinMarks a directions app that understands bike
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aaronpk I wonder why google hasn't done that yet. they have all the data.
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KevinMarks Google maps and citymapper both get this wrong
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kylewm KevinMarks: I frequently want that from 511.org ... maximum walking between bus stops is 1 mile
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KevinMarks Because they have Google buses for that use case in the bay area
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KevinMarks Also for citibikes in sf, London, NY, DC etc
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KevinMarks They have defined places you need to start and end journeys but no useful routing
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kylewm increase that to 5 miles and assume I can walk 10 miles an hours :)
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reedstrm KevinMarks I keep banging the OSM drum here, but the data is available - heck osm has better walk/bike info than google (updates faster - which google eventually imports)
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tallpaul http://rtp.trimet.org/#/ <-- open source
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aaronpk I just got a webmention with a source of twitter.com
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aaronpk and it was not from me this time
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aaronpk and I don't think it's bridgy either
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/webmention/VX5icGn0
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aaronpk sent from 97.65.18.18
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joskar Did he input it manually on your site?
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aaronpk oh maybe!
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aaronpk I wonder if I log that
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joskar To bad twitter t.co's everything, otherwise it would at least show up as a mention for most people :)
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joskar (or would it? :S)
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aaronpk redirects are fine as long as it starts with the value entered in "source"
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aaronpk er wait a sec
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aaronpk i mean "target". yes, if you sent me a webmention with the t.co URL as the target, it should succeed
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@adactio @saddington If you’re around later, I’d love to chat about @DeskPM and the possibility of micropub support: http://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub (twitter.com/_/status/529745888978419712)
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joskar realises that he missed that "(after following redirects)" part of the protocol. :(
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aaronpk but setting the target to the short URL is important
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aaronpk cause I'm not gonna follow all redirects on the page looking for my site
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joskar I have a vague memory of putting explicit shortlink-handling in my code, but I have probably refactored it away...Ah well, one more thing for my TODO list.
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kylewm aaronpk: might be interesting to special case twitter and look for data-expanded-url in addition to href ...
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aaronpk I don't expect to be getting webmentions from twitter.com any time soon tho
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kylewm I feel like this came up for KartikPrabhu at one point
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kylewm somebody wanted to reply directly on twitter
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kylewm to marginalia
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aaronpk using twitter's data-expanded-url would be a good thing for the twitter shim to do
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KartikPrabhu yeah shepazu wanted to use Twitter to post marginalia but my form does not handle it yet
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: I don't think twitter should be special cased in some parsing protocol. Using a shim like Activity Streams Unofficial seems best
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aaronpk my twitter shim resolves all t.co links but it does that by making http requests
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bear doesn't twitter return the real url inside of a twitter post json object?
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KartikPrabhu maybe look for expanded-url and if not found do a request
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KartikPrabhu yes
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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KevinMarks_ do twitter preserve fragments in their urls? I've seen them remove www for example
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snarfed KevinMarks: i assume you mean when rendered, not in the actual underlying link?
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KevinMarks_ ah, maybe - I was trying to point out that www.t.co doesn't resolve and that may be a singularity
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@tinseltine #indieweb @waxpancake: dhfdhfgfjjf (twitter.com/_/status/529772096549707776)
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@tinseltine #indieweb @waxpancake @tinseltine: lkjljljl (twitter.com/_/status/529772307452276736)
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kylewm lol, looks like somebody is testing noter live
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KevinMarks_ I need to overhaul that UX so it makes sense to someone other than me...
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acegiak GWG: Web actions, an easier press-this-like experience?
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snarfed KevinMarks: ux is hard, i say give up. wanna go shopping?
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gRegor` Idea: analyze snarfed's chat logs for frequency of the word "shopping" :)
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snarfed gRegor` does my offhand remarks too much credit :P
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snarfed eg http://gregorlove.com/notes/2014/07/18/1/
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gRegor` Haha
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gRegor` x is hard. wanna go shopping? makes me laugh each time.
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gRegor` Idea: !shopping ux => "ux is hard. Let's go shopping."
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gRegor` only has silly ideas today
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snarfed hah. implement it!
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gRegor` goes shopping
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aaronpk !shopping ux
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Loqi ux is hard, let's go shopping!
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gRegor` My jedi powers worked on aaronpk!
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KevinMarks_ do we need a verb that is like tanteking, but for getting aaron to implement something?
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aaronpk uhoh
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KevinMarks_ My favourite variation of that trope is from when Stephen Wolfram came to give a talk at Apple about his book A New Kind Of Science
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KevinMarks_ and someone asked him why it had taken so long to write
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KevinMarks_ and he said "Math is hard"
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KartikPrabhu that whole book is a version of that
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GWG acegiak: I meant...can you demonstrate it? I'm having trouble picturing it.
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acegiak sure. gimme five
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GWG No rush.
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