#indiewebcamp 2014-11-07

2014-11-07 UTC
#
tantek aww he deleted his POSSE copy: https://twitter.com/_/status/530464418342387713
#
tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-11-06/line/1415307548042
tantek, xxcoeurxx and scor joined the channel
#
tantek liking this post http://computationalist.uk.to/2014/11/trends-in-social-media
#
tantek though I'm skeptical about Google Trends, e.g. compare seemingly generic terms that are unlikely to have year over year difference in interest, e.g. "news"
#
kylewm agrees with the "facebook as infectious disease study" http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jan/22/facebook-princeton-researchers-infectious-disease
#
tantek or here's a funny one - are people really that much more interested in news than music now compared to 10 years ago? http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=news%2C%20music&cmpt=q
#
aaronpk s/interested/searching for
#
tantek why would fewer people search for music vs. news?
#
tantek the "search for facebook" is a reasonable proxy for browser login to facebook, since people do a google search as the fastest way to find the site to login
#
aaronpk maybe people search for music more now in other places?
#
danlyke the music vs news is probably the specific tool (iTunes, Google Play, Spotify, whatever else the kids these days are listening to their rock and roll on) vs the generic one.
#
tantek kylewm: a-ha your article already says this: "people using Facebook via their smartphones each month could explain the drop in Google searches – those looking to log on are no longer doing so by typing the word Facebook into Google."
#
XgF tantek: And indeed I think both Facebook and Twitter report that most of their use is now via their mobile apps
#
tantek I hesitate but can't help but hypothesize that the music search drop is a proxy for MP3 usage drop and streaming music increasing
#
tantek maps to personal anecdata
#
aaronpk that's what I was getting at
#
aaronpk yeah I know that's certainly true for myself
#
aaronpk this is relevant to anyone hosting their websites on github pages: https://github.com/blog/1917-github-pages-legacy-ip-deprecation
#
tantek not me, I still buy&rip CDs and like using my ipod to listen to music without bandwidth. handy for long flights :P
#
aaronpk I just use spotify offline playlists for that :)
#
tantek and how long does it take the "offline playlists" to "sync" over the network?
#
XgF I still buy and rip CDs, but a lot of the time I stream because, well, I like music at work
#
aaronpk a few minutes
#
aaronpk LTE is fast
#
KevinMarks__ The most Correlated query for music is free music
#
KevinMarks__ For news it's BBC
#
tantek kylewm I vaguely remember that Princeton study being debunked
#
kylewm oh bummer
#
tantek http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/24/tech/social-media/facebook-princeton-smackdown/
#
tantek https://www.facebook.com/notes/mike-develin/debunking-princeton/10151947421191849
#
tantek that last one is the hilarious debunking, that I'm sure snarfed will also have fun with
#
kylewm so they said they modeled it like an infectious disease but were actually just using google trends data...weaksauce
#
tantek yeah...
#
tantek lots of BigTalk
#
tantek.com edited /site-deaths (+488) "Facebook may lose 80% of users by 2017 Princeton study, debunking, CNN summary" (view diff)
#
tantek kylewm: good citations and worth documenting nonetheless
#
tantek what is Google Trends?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Google Trends" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Google+Trends
#
tantek What is HTMLy?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "HTMLy" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=HTMLy
#
tantek Just discovered this and am fascinated by it: https://www.htmly.com/ https://github.com/danpros/htmly
#
tantek note: the storage is in flat markdown files
#
tantek has anyone heard of HTMLy before or tried using it?
#
kylewm the file naming convention is really interesting
#
kylewm 2014-01-31-12-56-40_tag1,tag2,tag3_databaseless-blogging-platform-flat-file-blog.md
#
kylewm never thought of including the tags in the filename
jnymck joined the channel
#
tantek kylewm: right? I thought that convention was fascinating too!
#
tantek wondering if aaronpk has seen HTMLy and their filenaming convention
#
tantek ok now this may be interesting: retweet vs. repost - as in both of them are atypical terms.
#
tantek http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=retweet%2C%20repost&cmpt=q
#
kylewm throw in "reblog" too
#
tantek added http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=retweet%2C%20repost%2C%20reblog&cmpt=q
jnymck joined the channel
#
XgF repost -> related to the rise of Reddit?
#
kylewm that's what I was going to say too XgF
#
tantek really? is repost a frequent term on Reddit?
#
tantek or does "RePost" mean to post something to Reddit?
#
XgF Repost as in "You've reposted this thing somebody else posted the other day. -1"
#
kylewm as in, the opposite of "original content"
#
kylewm http://i.imgur.com/HH1sm.gif
#
kylewm (without attribution)
jnymck joined the channel
#
jnymck.com edited /IRC_People (+55) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
#
KevinMarks__ http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=retweet%2C%20repost%2C%20reblog%2C%20Copypasta&cmpt=q
gr0k and tantek joined the channel
#
jnymck.com edited /IRC_People (+28) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
caseorga_ and tantek_ joined the channel
#
tantek_ XgF, kylewm alternative theory for rise of "repost": Instagram
reedstrm joined the channel
#
XgF possibly
#
tantek Related searches shows: "instagram repost", "how to repost", "how to repost instagram", "repost on instagram"
#
tantek and only after that "repost facebook"
#
tantek near bottom of http://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=repost
#
tantek reedstrm: hah - re: misattribution. thanks for the kind words about UX, however yes, snarfed deserves all the credit in that case :)
#
reedstrm tantek what's extra ironic is when you where describing how to do the UX description of the re-post UIs, I was going to mention that it was clear you knew how to do this, and ask if there was any particular resource you'd recommend for developers
#
tantek reedstrm: I didn't think I was doing anything special, just left-to-right, top-down (typical western eye-scanning) UI reverse engineering analysis
#
tantek which itself is an instance of the "observation" step of scientific method
#
tantek to design UIs better than the silos, it helps to first reverse engineer their UIs, understand their components and interactions
#
tantek it's particularly interesting to note the changes in their UIs over time
#
tantek what is a UI?
#
reedstrm well, it seemed logical to me, but also seemed like part of a method. It reminded me of how I do alt text for images, though there I tend to go macro to micro "A picture of a tan puppy, wearing a red collar, lying on his left side, on green grass"
#
Loqi Design is a catchall term used to refer to everything that affects users about a page/site including: http://indiewebcamp.com/ui
#
tantek reedstrm: indeed, alt text for images has a different purpose, more of breadth first communication of overall meaning, rather than thorough analysis
#
reedstrm right.
#
tantek alright, since someone picked on bear/snarfed for UX vs. UI I'll write something brief
#
KevinMarks_ There is a nuance between repost and share, made clear by the icons
#
tantek KevinMarks: share has no nuance
#
reedstrm Embrace and extend right back at them :-)
#
tantek reedstrm: precisely :)
#
KevinMarks_ Retweet, repost etc are "stay in this silo" arrows in a circle
#
tantek except we can leave out the "growth hacking" and "advertising" crap they shovel in
#
KevinMarks_ Share is an arrow pointing elsewhere
#
tantek KevinMarks: "share" is a 201x synonym for "send"
#
KevinMarks_ Except for g+
#
tantek and on FB, share means "within silo" also
#
tantek on FB, "share" literally means "repost within this silo"
#
tantek and thus, the Activity Streams definition of "share" is what we call "repost"
#
tantek.com edited /ui (-4) "r" (view diff)
#
KevinMarks_ Hm. Same icon as g+ exactly
#
tantek.com edited /ui (+12) "r" (view diff)
#
KevinMarks_ POSSE is a kind of repost
#
tantek.com edited /UI (+8) "r" (view diff)
#
KevinMarks_ Self reposting
#
tantek.com created /user-interface (+337) "attempt a definition with abbrs and also known as" (view diff)
#
tantek KevinMarks - POSSE is syndication, not reposting
#
tantek in reposting, the act of reposting is relevant in itself, and has its own information, e.g. author (who reposted), dt-published (when was it reposted), possibly even permalink (what is repost permalink vs. the original permalink).
#
tantek whereas syndication is just a conduit
#
tantek.com edited /UX (+9) "r" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /ux (+9) "r" (view diff)
#
KevinMarks_ Right, but "syndication" is a weird weird for it
#
KevinMarks_ It's a leftover newspaper metaphor
j12t joined the channel
#
tantek.com created /user-experience (+470) "attempt a definition with abbrs and also known as" (view diff)
#
tantek KevinMarks: is it really leftover? I thought the analogy from the newspaper usage was quite 1:1 accurate
#
tantek.com edited /user-experience (+3) "'''" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /user-experience (+15) "direct" (view diff)
#
tantek !tell bear, reedstrm, snarfed for your consideration, fresh definitions of UI and UX off the top of my head, with Bridgy in mind as something that has both: http://indiewebcamp.com/user-interface and http://indiewebcamp.com/user-experience
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
tantek.com edited /design (+16) "linky" (view diff)
#
tantek.com created /User_experience (+29) "r" (view diff)
#
tantek.com created /User_interface (+28) "r" (view diff)
#
reedstrm Hmm, interesting
#
Loqi reedstrm: tantek left you a message 2 minutes ago: for your consideration, fresh definitions of UI and UX off the top of my head, with Bridgy in mind as something that has both: http://indiewebcamp.com/user-interface and http://indiewebcamp.com/user-experience
#
tantek !tell bear, reedstrm, snarfed per this tweet https://twitter.com/theunfocused/status/530487725582200833
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
tantek.com edited /user-interface (+220) "also called often just "interface"" (view diff)
#
tantek and now for all the subterms and cross-links
#
tantek why do wiki-links feel like synapses sometimes, and the need to grow them to increase overall understanding and connections between concepts
#
tantek.com edited /Facebook (+4) "/* Comment */ linky" (view diff)
#
reedstrm tantek probably related to the "talk to the bear" phenomena, when describing a problem to someone else, you realize the answer: in order to descibe things in a wiki context, you need to organize and clarify concepts that may be fuzzy in your own mind ...
#
Loqi reedstrm: tantek left you a message 8 minutes ago: per this tweet https://twitter.com/theunfocused/status/530487725582200833
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /p3k (+8) "/* Source Code */ linky linky" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /comment (+4) "/* Accept a comment */ linky" (view diff)
#
tantek.com created /posting_interface (+330) "stub with dfn, see also, indieweb examples" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /web_hosting (+8) "/* Custom domain silos */ linky linky" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /design (+4) "/* Screenshots */ linky" (view diff)
#
tantek.com created /posting_interfaces (+31) "r" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /private_posts (+4) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ linky" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /posting_interfaces (+0) "r" (view diff)
#
tantek.com created /Posting_interface (+31) "r" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /2013/Hollywood/Creating_a_Simple_Blogging_Site (+40) "linky linky" (view diff)
fmarier joined the channel
#
tantek.com created /interact (+26) "r" (view diff)
mdik_ joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /create (+24) "see also" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /mobile (+4) "/* mobile friendly */ linky" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /generations (+4) "/* Generation 1 IndieWeb */ linky" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /Secret (+4) "linky" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /marginalia (+4) "/* Posting UI */ linky" (view diff)
xxcoeurxx joined the channel
#
tantek.com created /interface (+372) "stub with dfn, disambig" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /2014/UK/Demos (+15) "linky linky" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /Ello (+4) "linky" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /indie-config (+4) "linky" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /Red_Wind (+33) "posting interfaces" (view diff)
#
tantek.com created /Posting_interfaces (+31) "r" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /user-interface (+109) "examples of specific types/purposes of UIs just referred to as "purpose-name" interface" (view diff)
#
tantek what is a posting interface?
#
Loqi A posting interface is a user interface for creating posts, typically on your own website http://indiewebcamp.com/posting_interface
#
tantek ok that's enough of a synaptic braindump for tonight
#
tantek and I could have just checked wikipedia, but now that I have, I'm ok with the short(er) definitions of /UX and /UI
#
tantek.com edited /user-interface (+46) "see also wikipedia" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /user-experience (+47) "wp ux" (view diff)
#
tantek I appreciate this post: http://scribbling.net/2014/10/16/short-form-blogging/
#
tantek "Traffic is irrelevant. Don’t even measure it." <-- that's kind of how I feel
#
KartikPrabhu same
#
tantek and then I scrolled down to the "5 Responses to “Short-form blogging”" and saw shitty shitty pingback UX :(
#
tantek http://scribbling.net/2014/10/16/short-form-blogging/#comments
#
pdurbin nice post
#
tantek shame about the pingback presentation
#
tantek looks like Gina is on WordPress
#
pdurbin she sounded enthusiatic about Known in TWiG 267
#
tantek so two approaches - one, someone that "knows" Gina, two, who is our WordPress outreach committee? snarfed, GWG?
#
tantek what is the step-by-step way for a WordPress user to convert their poor pingback presentation to beautiful webmention comments presentation?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "the step-by-step way for a WordPress user to convert their poor pingback presentation to beautiful webmention comments presentation" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=the+step-by-step+way+for+a+WordPress+user+to+convert+their+poor+pingback+presentation+to+beautiful+webmention+comments+presentation
#
tantek GWG, snarfed ^^^
#
tantek and with that, I'm off for a bit.
#
KartikPrabhu Wordpress outreach committe :P
jnymck and gr0k joined the channel
#
@acegiak @joewintergreen: Blogs are awesome and the basis for the indieweb, taking back our social media: - http://acegiak.net/2014/11/07/joewintergreen/ (twitter.com/_/status/530559213408247808)
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
GWG Saw my name mentioned.
#
GWG Heading home. Will check on arrival.
tilgovi joined the channel
#
GWG Something about Wordpress?
snarfed joined the channel
#
Loqi [mention] http://acegiak.net/2014/11/07/joewintergreen/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
#
GWG reads up
#
GWG Convert Pingbacks to Webmentions...hmmm...
#
GWG I'll be the WordPress Outreach Committee. I suppose I have been
j12t, gr0k and chalettu joined the channel
#
aaronpk wow hello new wiki pages
#
GWG Hello, aaronpk
mdik and acegiak joined the channel
#
acegiak fml
#
GWG acegiak: FML?
#
acegiak looks like the update dropped my metadata
#
GWG acegiak: Dropped?
#
acegiak I'm looking into it
#
GWG acegiak: Did you run the update function?
#
GWG And back up your database?
#
acegiak holdup I'm looking into it
#
GWG acegiak: I did warn you that it could be a problem
#
acegiak yeah I know
#
GWG I just pushed another minor update
#
acegiak how do I run the update function? just save with the box ticked?
#
GWG Yes.
#
GWG I figured it was the easiest way.
#
GWG Hope it works
#
kylewm [...] was a very strange choice for pingback presentation [...]
#
GWG It did for me, but...
#
GWG kylewm: ?
#
kylewm GWG: sorry, referring to the pingback discussion from earlier re: http://scribbling.net/2014/10/16/short-form-blogging/#comments
#
GWG kylewm: That...well, I was thinking about it
j12t joined the channel
#
GWG kylewm: Pingbacks could be converted in the WordPress database to Webmentions
#
acegiak looks like it got dropped when I updated the plugin not when I ran the update function
#
acegiak which is fun
#
GWG How did it get dropped?
#
GWG I did test the update funtin.
#
acegiak I don't imagine it's anything you've done
#
GWG acegiak: I'm a worrier.
#
acegiak I imagine it's to do with the face that my wordpress is a pretty wobbly WPMU install
#
acegiak fact*
#
GWG acegiak: If you figure anything out...I intend to remove the check box a few versions down
#
acegiak well it shouldn't be needed
#
acegiak like everyone should be updated to the new version
#
GWG acegiak: Well, I think, other than you, usage is limited.
#
GWG That is why I worried about you. You post a lot.
#
acegiak yeah
#
acegiak nope that data is definitely gone. ok. let's see if I can restore it from my posse-ing to tumblr
#
acegiak the problem here is I have the flu so it didn't occur to me to make a backup
gr0k joined the channel
#
GWG You sure it isn't in the database?
#
acegiak The only ones that are in the database are the meta for posts that have been trashed
#
GWG Odd
#
GWG Maybe I should take the function out now
#
acegiak it's not the function
#
GWG Ok
#
GWG Good.
richardlitt joined the channel
#
acegiak looks like because I had the plugin installed on the network but only active on one site something happened when I upgraded it that removed the associated metadata
#
GWG I didn't test it on multisite.
#
acegiak yeah multisite is a bit whack
#
acegiak I think I can restore from tumblr by the looks of it
#
GWG acegiak: Bad time to tell you my next plan for it?
#
acegiak which is?
#
GWG I want to rewrite the display function.
#
GWG I've been redoing parts of it piece by piece to prepare for new features.
#
acegiak you keep changing things to be ready for new features. what new features?
#
GWG acegiak: Next is author fields for the response.
#
GWG Starting with author name.
#
acegiak Why does that need anything other than a couple of extra meta fields and a few extra lines of output in the display?
#
GWG acegiak: My eventual dream is to have a button to optionally parse and retrieve that data from the URL.
#
GWG Using the MF2 parser
#
acegiak what data?
#
GWG author, publish date, profile picture URL from the h-card, possibly the content.
#
acegiak which url?
techlifeweb joined the channel
#
GWG The user provided URL
#
acegiak what user provided url?
#
GWG So...I fill in the URL box, and click a button to optionally parse the other information
#
acegiak where is the url box?
#
GWG acegiak: Where it is now.
#
GWG In the meta box.
#
GWG I'm confused.
#
acegiak the one on the post edit screen?
#
GWG acegiak: Yes
#
acegiak GWG: I'm usually confused by your every second sentence, I just try to work out what I think you mean as best I can
#
GWG acegiak: I'll work on that.
#
acegiak I'm just a bit short today because I have the flu and deleted a large section of my database, sorry
#
GWG acegiak: But, I keep starting out with writing things that require the user to enter in the data. I always consider a future step to have the data filled in for me.
j12t joined the channel
#
acegiak see that's never been a thing I've had to worry about because I've got things filling in the data for me already
#
acegiak like whisperfollow and now that I've got the prepopPost plugin I can just use greasemonkey to insert buttons in twitter and the web that open post.php?response_title=example&responseurl=example.com
#
techlifeweb hi all
#
GWG acegiak: I'm not worried about it. I'll likely be entering in the data manually for a while longer
#
GWG techlifeweb: Hi
eschnou joined the channel
#
GWG acegiak: I keep switching back and forth between two plugins I'm making major changes to. And as part of that, I was contributing to Semantic Linkbacks.
#
techlifeweb have a webmentions question...
#
GWG I was working on a simple function to count the number of 'likes', 'mentions', etc. in the comment section.
#
GWG techlifeweb: Go ahead
#
techlifeweb If I post a short link on my site and send webmentions, does it eventually find the parent URL?
#
GWG A short link should redirect automatically
#
techlifeweb cool, thanks
#
kylewm !tell tantek re: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-11-06#t1415303419961 verifying reposts is an interesting concept, but honestly the bigger problem on existing social network is faked screenshots .. source of a lot of abuse in gamergate
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
gavinc, loic_m, yakker, gr0k, scor, cweiske and acegiak joined the channel
#
acegiak GWG: If I put something in the content/citation box in teh post editor and click update the content/citation disappears
krendil joined the channel
#
acegiak and the content filter isn't injecting anything when displaying the post
friedcell joined the channel
#
acegiak GWG: ping
#
acegiak GWG: ping
davidpeach and stream7 joined the channel
#
acegiak hmm. I think I'm gonna dropt the taxonomy plugin and just go back to a sensible post meta setup
petermolnar, fmarier, Sebastien-L, JonathanNeal, KevinMarks, loic_m and gr0k joined the channel
#
@cathcoste RT @Johannes_Ernst: Own Your Site instead! #indieweb “@gigaom: Personal media publishing platform http://jux.com shutting down http… (twitter.com/_/status/530658110458044417)
KevinMarks, xxcoeurxx, benatkin, Pierre-O, bashrc, KevinMarks_, dns53, davemenninger, gr0k, wolftune and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
ben_thatmust brid.gy again "No valid web sites found in your Facebook profile. Please update it and try again!"
#
ben_thatmust huh, scratch that, i HAD to have it as https:// now
wont_on joined the channel
#
@CoderDojoUSA RT @kid_OYO: Teach #webliteracy 1)Facebook is result of web illiteracy 2)#indieweb is starting point of personal data value 3)make #edu,not… (twitter.com/_/status/530695568717545473)
EOGreer, Pierre-O1, davemenninger, mlncn, j12t, scor, Pierre-O, KevinMarks_, reedstrm, shiflett, gr0k, verdi_, brianloveswords, stream7 and stream7_ joined the channel
#
@Freerange_Inc @noii yesterday in my supervision I got asked how #indieweb was different from the #darknet ! (twitter.com/_/status/530740183189434368)
j12t and j12t_ joined the channel
#
GWG !tell acegiak I will check it out.
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
[Keith] and KevinMarks joined the channel
#
GWG Okay...so I succeeded in breaking acegiak's site. Now I feel bad.
#
petermolnar lol
#
GWG petermolnar: I usually only break my own site
#
petermolnar that is what most of us usually do :)
stream7 joined the channel
#
GWG petermolnar: I tested the thing. It worked on my test site and my live site.
#
GWG petermolnar: What's going on with you?
#
petermolnar been on holiday for 2 weeks and had a rough on call rota week now, so I did vanish for nearly a month :)
xxcoeurxx joined the channel
#
GWG petermolnar: I saw. You posted some pictures.
#
GWG Not the rough part
#
petermolnar from the indieweb point of view, I'm surprised how many sites are out there in the wild where there is a pingback url in the header and it's not working ( or it does but the owner does not care )
#
petermolnar I wanted to reply to non-indieweb but xml-rpc supporting sites without luck
#
petermolnar although some forgotten old WordPress installs work quite nice :D
#
GWG petermolnar: Did you see the log from yesterday, where there was a suggestion about converting pingbacks to webmentions?
#
petermolnar nope, I did not have time to catch up at all, could you please summerize it?
#
GWG petermolnar: It started with this WordPress site. I wasn't actively around
#
GWG http://scribbling.net/2014/10/16/short-form-blogging/
#
GWG http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-11-06/line/1415328817281
#
GWG tantek was commenting on the "Shitty Shitty Pingback UX"
#
GWG http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-11-06/line/1415329146028
#
GWG He then asked what the step by step was to convert the presentation to webmention presentation
#
GWG I haven't gotten a pingback in so long, I never considered the idea of converting the pingbacks into webmentions so they'd be rendered identically
#
ben_thatmustbeme its hard to read "Shitty Shitty Pingback UX" without putting it to the tune of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang
#
GWG ben_thatmustbeme: Please don't stick songs in my head
#
ben_thatmustbeme ear worm successful deployed
#
GWG ben_thatmustbeme: There was a terrible mistake...they put it in your ear and it laid eggs...
#
GWG Sorry...similar reference
#
petermolnar pingback is not the devil, displaying them is a different topic; WordPress actually stores a pingback the same way as a comment
#
petermolnar only the display is different
#
GWG petermolnar: The display isn't different, actually, unless the theme sets it up that way.
#
GWG petermolnar: It does have a different comment type. But, it should be easy to convert to a better display format and change it to, for example, the 'mention' format that Semantic Linkbacks uses.
#
petermolnar the default wp_list_comments chops the response body lenth as far as I can recall
#
petermolnar even though the full length is there in the db
mko joined the channel
#
petermolnar hm
#
petermolnar no, I was wrong
#
petermolnar it stores it chopped
#
petermolnar ok, it is shitty
#
GWG petermolnar: Either way it can still be converted. Function retrieves pingback from database, parses it as a webmention
#
petermolnar that could work
#
petermolnar and it does not even sound too bad
#
petermolnar and too complicated
#
GWG petermolnar: The only question I was trying to figure out is if that is on by default.
#
petermolnar ?
#
GWG I would tend to think it should automatically just do that.
#
petermolnar agreed
#
GWG I was wondering if there might be a dissenting opinion.
#
petermolnar the webmention plugin should take care of that
#
petermolnar the only thing it would need is a manual rescan
#
petermolnar for old pingbacks
#
GWG I think I shall file a Feature Request
stream7, EOGreer and gr0k joined the channel
#
GWG petermolnar: You want to comment on that...? https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention/issues/34
#
petermolnar a thought: if instead of intercepting the conversion is working on wp-cron bases there's no need for the manual processing of the old ones
#
petermolnar check for pingback type, do the conversion run every X minutes
#
GWG petermolnar: Why not hook into preprocess_comment?
#
GWG http://codex.wordpress.org/Plugin_API/Filter_Reference/preprocess_comment
#
petermolnar spam
#
petermolnar I don't know where akismet hooks in
#
petermolnar but only non-spams should be processed
#
petermolnar actually, only approved ones should be processed
#
GWG Hmm...want to add a comment to the issue on that?
#
petermolnar I'll do so
#
GWG petermolnar: Then, instead of a cron job, you could link to comment approved
pfefferle joined the channel
#
petermolnar yep, that would do it
shiflett joined the channel
#
GWG petermolnar: Issue closed
#
GWG https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-semantic-linkbacks/issues/9
#
GWG Reopened
#
pfefferle thanks...
#
GWG pfefferle: The Semantic Linkbacks plugin does process pingbacks and trackbacks, but not retroactively, for one.
#
GWG Is that part of the same issue or a different one?
#
GWG Either way, I wanted to raise it, as I've been appointed a member of the WordPress Outreach Committee
#
pfefferle GWG I thought that is the intend of the issue!?!
#
GWG pfefferle: There is one other question. Whether the comment_type on pingbacks should be changed to webmentions once adjusted, or kept separate.
#
GWG What is the WordPress Outreach Committee?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "the WordPress Outreach Committee" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=the+WordPress+Outreach+Committee
#
pfefferle The current state is: The plugin supports MF2 enrichments for Pingbacks,Trackbacks and Webmentions… But it doesn’t support it for older pings that happent before installing the SLB plugin…
#
pfefferle GWG I would like to keep the comment type
#
GWG pfefferle: Okay, so the basic issue is upgrading older pings.
#
pfefferle GWG yes
#
GWG pfefferle: I haven't gotten a pingback in ages, either way, which is why this didn't occur to me.
#
pfefferle GWG ;)
#
pfefferle GWG I like the feature idea btw!
#
GWG pfefferle: One of the things I like about you is that whenever I have an idea, your response to it is usually a better method than I would have conceived.
#
pfefferle GWG :D
#
pfefferle GWG thanks, my muse ;)
#
GWG pfefferle: I just still am feeling horrible about acegiak. The Indieweb Taxonomy upgrade seems to have broken his site.
#
GWG I can't figure out how, and thus I worry about breaking other people's sites.
#
pfefferle oh!
#
GWG pfefferle: It relates to a change from individual postmeta to a postmeta array to allow for additional parameters to be added.
#
pfefferle what exactly went wrong?
#
david.shanske.com created /WordPress_Outreach_Committee (+341) "Created page with "The <dfn>WordPress Outreach Committee</dfn>''' is a group of active Indiewebcamp participants who reach out to individuals already running WordPress to add Indieweb functionality..."" (view diff)
eschnou joined the channel
#
david.shanske.com edited /WordPress_Outreach_Committee (-3) (view diff)
#
david.shanske.com created /The_WordPress_Outreach_Committee (+42) "Redirected page to [[WordPress Outreach Committee]]" (view diff)
#
GWG pfefferle: I have no idea. I tested it on two sites before I pushed it. acegiak is running a multisite network...I didn't test for that.
#
GWG What is the WordPress Outreach Committee?
#
Loqi The WordPress Outreach Committee is a group of active Indiewebcamp participants who reach out to individuals already running WordPress to add Indieweb functionality to their existing sites http://indiewebcamp.com/The_WordPress_Outreach_Committee
#
GWG pfefferle: Either way, I didn't take the structure format change lightly. Once it is an array, it stays one, and any additional parameters will go in with backward compatibility.
danlyke joined the channel
#
pfefferle GWG does it break the style or the site in general? HTML/CSS or PHP problems?
#
GWG pfefferle: Acegiak said the data was gone from the database
#
pfefferle oh ok
#
GWG This is my first...caused disaster messup as a plugin developer.
#
pfefferle GWG happy first messup!
#
pfefferle GWG I think WordPress mu handles the options a bit different…
#
GWG pfefferle: I'm sure it will be one of many. I'm dedicated, but I am an amateur. I am hopefully learning though
#
pfefferle GWG you have to define the settings fields I think https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-subtome/blob/master/subtome.php#L358
#
pfefferle GWG WordPress is not that easy because it excuses a lot of errors and you can solve problems on sooo many different ways…
#
GWG I did define the settings fields, I thought. I read the Settings API codex when I rewrote the options page to standard.
#
pfefferle GWG I learnt a lot by looking into the source code of other coders… mainly of willnorris’ plugins
#
GWG I want to figure out what happened so I can prevent it in others. But, in one more version, hopefully, no one will have the old structure, so it will be a moot point.
#
GWG pfefferle: How does the Indieweb Plugin Installer handle updates, by the way?
#
pfefferle GWG oh, you extended the walkers… hmmm… Your code grew a lot in the last weeks…
#
GWG pfefferle: It will continue to grow.
#
GWG pfefferle: Which walkers?
#
pfefferle WDS_Taxonomy_Radio_Walker.php
#
GWG pfefferle: I didn't write that.
#
pfefferle GWG ah ok
#
GWG pfefferle: I need to attribute that. But that has been there from the beginning.
#
pfefferle GWG I also didn’t write the update/install handler of the IndieWeb plugin, so I am not sure if it handles updates for plugins that are hosted on github
wolftune joined the channel
#
GWG pfefferle: Looking at that code I borrowed for the taxonomy radio buttons is on my list because there is no button for selecting No Taxonomy if you accidentally selected one
EOGreer joined the channel
#
pfefferle GWG I think the easiest way is to install a WP MU locally to run some tests
#
GWG pfefferle: I may do that.
#
pfefferle GWG you only have to set a flag in your config.php I think… The merged both repositories and code bases a while ago
#
GWG pfefferle: I ran a multisite for a while. It always gave me problems, especially with caching plugins, so I stopped.
Pea1 and tantek joined the channel
#
GWG pfefferle: Either way, I'm also working on a rewrite of the Semantic Comments plugin to be less intrusive, after which I'll be proposing adding it to Indieweb Plugins.
#
tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
#
Loqi tantek: kylewm left you a message 10 hours, 20 minutes ago: re: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-11-06#t1415303419961 verifying reposts is an interesting concept, but honestly the bigger problem on existing social network is faked screenshots .. source of a lot of abuse in gamergate
#
GWG I keep jumping between projects
#
GWG tantek: Good morning.
#
tantek GWG++ for founding the /WordPress_Outreach_Committee :)
#
Loqi GWG has 28 karma
#
GWG tantek: I thought I was appointed.
#
tantek nominated maybe ;)
#
GWG tantek: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-11-06/line/1415329146028
#
tantek GWG, exactly, I was asking the question of both you and snarfed :)
#
GWG tantek: Either way, pfefferle has already solved the problem. Just not retroactively.
#
tantek GWG, are you familiar with http://tantek.com/2013/113/b1/first-federated-indieweb-comment-thread ?
#
GWG tantek: That was before my time
#
tantek the first federated comments with in-reply-to and h-entry markup were done via *pingback*
#
tantek before webmention
#
GWG tantek: I noticed that now.
#
tantek this is what I mean by, transition from pingback presentation to webmention+microformats presentation
#
tantek *how* you receive the pingback/webmention is not as important as *what* you do with it
#
GWG tantek: I haven't received a pingback in ages though. Makes testing harder.
#
pfefferle tantek that already works with WordPress
#
tantek pfefferle: that's my point, how do we transition existing WordPress users to whatever "that" is that you speak of
#
pfefferle tantek the semantic linkback plugin enriches pingbacks, trackbacks and webmentions
#
GWG tantek: It just doesn't work retroactively. An issue has already been raised.
#
tantek does it eliminate that dumb "[…] some random pingback text […]" nonsense?
#
@LifeHealthDiary Make my health data understandable! http://blog.lifetimehealthdiary.com/doctors-need-create-culture-health-literacy/ #health #OwnYourData (twitter.com/_/status/530772973318590464)
#
@joelgaines Make my health data understandable! http://blog.lifetimehealthdiary.com/doctors-need-create-culture-health-literacy/ #health #OwnYourData (twitter.com/_/status/530772973922553857)
#
tantek nevermind retroactively, I'm asking about what is the easiest path to transitioning
#
tantek do you "just" install one plugin? no configuration?
#
aaronpk hm the #ownyourdata hashtag is becoming less relevant. should I remove from the search?
#
GWG tantek: Yes. The plugin doesn't even have a configuration page in WordPress
#
pfefferle tantek one for webmention support and one for the semantic stuff
#
tantek GWG - ok then I suppose my question is just an FAQ :)
#
tantek pfefferle: makes sense. I would strongly advocate all WP users to install the semantic linkback plugin then
#
tantek what is the semantic linkback plugin?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "the semantic linkback plugin" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=the+semantic+linkback+plugin
#
GWG Allow me
#
pfefferle tantek https://wordpress.org/plugins/semantic-linkbacks/
#
GWG Question is...should it be under "The Semantic Linkback Plugin"?
#
GWG It is also plural
#
GWG What is Semantic Linkbacks?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Semantic Linkbacks" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Semantic+Linkbacks
#
tantek GWG - create the page with the canonical name, then create all the redirects in however people ask it.
#
tantek GWG, I suppose the only configuration/UI that Semantic Linkbacks Plugin needs is a page to "Update" old pingback […]nonsense[…] posts/comments
#
pfefferle tantek that feature needs to be implemented…
jgee joined the channel
#
tantek pfefferle: a-ha! so that's a feature request then for Semantic Linkbacks - has it been filed somewhere? github issue?
#
pfefferle tantek up to now it only beautifies new pingbacks that comes after the plugin is installed
#
tantek what is Jux.com?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Jux.com" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Jux.com
#
GWG tantek: I filed it this morning as a Github issue.
#
pfefferle tantek GWG filed an issue https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-semantic-linkbacks/issues/9
#
tantek what is Jux?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Jux" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Jux
#
david.shanske.com created /Semantic_Linkbacks (+410) "Created page with "<dfn>Semantic Linkbacks</dfn> is a [WordPress] plugin that adds a semantic layer to classic linkback protocols like Trackback, Pingback or WebMention. Webmention support requires..."" (view diff)
#
david.shanske.com edited /Semantic_Linkbacks (+2) (view diff)
richardlitt joined the channel
#
pfefferle so, time to go home… have a nice afternoon…
#
tantek bye pfefferle!
#
david.shanske.com created /Semantic_Linkback (+32) "Redirected page to [[Semantic Linkbacks]]" (view diff)
#
david.shanske.com created /The_Semantic_Linkbacks_Plugin (+32) "Redirected page to [[Semantic Linkbacks]]" (view diff)
#
GWG There you are
#
GWG What is the Semantic Linkbacks Plugin?
#
Loqi Semantic Linkbacks is a WordPress plugin that adds a semantic layer to classic linkback protocols like Trackback, Pingback or WebMention http://indiewebcamp.com/The_Semantic_Linkbacks_Plugin
#
tantek.com created /Jux (+625) "stub another silo death" (view diff)
#
tantek.com created /Jux.com (+17) "r" (view diff)
#
tantek.com created /jux (+17) "r" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /Jux (+18) "fix dfn" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /Jux (-109) "- dup link" (view diff)
#
david.shanske.com edited /WordPress_Outreach_Committee (+182) (view diff)
#
david.shanske.com edited /WordPress_Outreach_Committee (-2) "/* Members */" (view diff)
#
GWG tantek: There you are. I accepted the nomination.
#
tantek.com edited /Jux (+2) "simplify dfn even further in an attempt to make it simpler for loqi" (view diff)
#
tantek GWG, great!
#
tantek now let's fix that definition, since "semantic layer" is kind of meaningless to any typical (even tech-centric) user
#
david.shanske.com edited /WordPress (+134) (view diff)
#
tantek what is the user feature that is enabled by Semantic Linkbacks Plugin?
#
GWG tantek: I didn't write it
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "the user feature that is enabled by Semantic Linkbacks Plugin" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=the+user+feature+that+is+enabled+by+Semantic+Linkbacks+Plugin
#
tantek GWG - "didn't write it" <-- then that's a problem for adding to the wiki
#
tantek you're suppose to write things in your own words when you contribute to the wiki, or quote and attribute (in order to license properly etc.)
#
GWG I pasted from the README. https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-semantic-linkbacks
#
tantek or ok to copy from a CC0/PD source
#
GWG I wrote in the words of the developer
#
tantek GWG, that readme has no copyright, thus must assume all rights reserved
#
tantek "words of the developer" is not always a good thing, in fact, usually it is a bad thing since developers typically write in terms of plumbing rather than user features
#
tantek on the indieweb wiki, we should describe everything we can in terms of user features
#
tantek especially something (anything) we expect a user to install
#
david.shanske.com edited /Semantic_Linkbacks (+107) (view diff)
#
GWG I'll add more after lunch. I'm hungry
#
tantek GWG, how about I make an attempt and you can correct me?
#
GWG tantek: I will gladly follow in the footsteps of those who came before me.
#
tantek GWG - when those who came before you don't follow your principles, it is better for you to improve on their work than simply re-use it
#
GWG You have a lot of wiki writing experience.
#
GWG tantek: I was referring to your wiki writing experience.
#
tantek it's not about wiki writing experience, it's about user-empathy, and then writing from that perspective
#
tantek (instead of plumbing perspective)
chalettu joined the channel
#
GWG tantek: I've been trying to do that at work for 4 years now.
#
tantek GWG, for pingbacks, does the plugin only support comments, or will it show the other "types" as well?
#
tantek or does repost, like, favorite require that the linkback came from a webmention (instead of webmention or pingback)?
#
GWG tantek: No. WordPress default comment types are comment, pingback, or trackback. The webmention plugin adds a 4th...webmention.
#
tantek I mean the semantic linkbacks plugin
#
GWG The Semantic Linkbacks plugin, if it determines a webmention is in fact, a comment, will change its type to comment. That leaves the webmention type for actions
#
tantek but semantic linkbacks also overrides pingback right?
#
GWG Yes.
#
tantek i.e. if it determines a pingback is in fact, a comment, will change its type to comment.
#
GWG It should, but I never tested that.
richardlitt joined the channel
#
GWG If it isn't though, it will leave it as a pingback but rewrite the content to the "Tantek Mentioned This Article on tantek.com" text
#
tantek GWG, you can test it by commenting out your webmention endpoint (disabling your webmention plugin)
#
tantek GWG - a-ha that's good.
#
tantek what if the pingback is from a "repost" or "like" or "favorite"?
#
GWG tantek: Same. It will say... "Tantek liked this article on tantek.com."
#
GWG Which is the same it would do for a webmention
#
tantek oh cool! so it does change the display no matter how it was received
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
GWG tantek: Yes.
#
GWG And because it adds a type indicator in the comment metadata, other functionality can be added. That's how I did my facepile.
#
tantek GWG, does it convert all in-reply-to comments/likes/favorites/reposts from type trackback or pingback to type comment?
#
GWG It should, if I read the code correctly.
#
tantek great!
#
GWG Never tried it in real life
#
tantek that's ok, we'll just claim it in the description
#
tantek and let pfefferle sort it out :)
#
tantek what is the Webmention Plugin?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "the Webmention Plugin" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=the+Webmention+Plugin
stream7 joined the channel
#
GWG Webmention plugin is rather generic. Shouldn't it be WordPress Webmention plugin?
#
GWG Drupal could have a webmention plugin one day
richardlitt and gr0k joined the channel
#
tantek GWG - then when that "one day" comes we make a disambiguation page
#
aaronparecki.com edited /jux (+0) "fix redirect" (view diff)
#
tantek create such pages lazily, worry about such generalities only when the become real.
#
aaronparecki.com edited /Jux (+2) "dfn" (view diff)
KevinMarks__ joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /Semantic_Linkbacks (+988) "update dfn to be user-feature centric, explain type indicator and purpose/use-case" (view diff)
#
tantek GWG check it:
#
tantek what is Semantic Linkbacks?
#
Loqi Semantic Linkbacks is a WordPress plugin that upgrades the presentation of linkback notifications (like Trackback, Pingback, or Webmention*) from the ugly default pingback presentation of "[…] random text excerpt […]" to a much more meaningful and user-friendly display as comments, reposts, likes, and favorites, detected using microformats2 markup from the source of the linkback http://indiewebcamp.com/Semantic_Linkbacks
#
tantek.com edited /Semantic_Linkbacks (+89) "move comment type indicator to a new subsection, link dfn" (view diff)
#
tantek what is Webmention Plugin?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Webmention Plugin" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Webmention+Plugin
#
aaronparecki.com edited /Micropub (+296) "/* h-entry */ add repost-of parameter and example repost" (view diff)
#
tantek ooh neat aaronpk!
#
aaronpk I decided to not include any built-in UI for creating posts for Dora, so every post there has to come via micropub
#
aaronpk and Dora wanted to retweet: https://indiewebcat.com/notes/2014/11/07/1/
#
aaronpk next up is syndicating to twitter via micropub
#
aaronparecki.com edited /Micropub (+2) "/* h-event */ lost a header level" (view diff)
#
GWG On line for lunch, checking now.
#
aaronpk considering moving the whole #Brainstorming section to a new page
#
aaronpk especially since /Micropub is supposed to read more like a spec now
#
tantek aaronpk - but aren't some of those brainstorms implemented?
#
tantek e.g. ben_thatmustbeme has implemented micropub CRUD right?
#
aaronpk i think the only thing in the brainstorming section that's been implemeneted is the delete
#
aaronpk everything else is rough notes
#
aaronpk I'm going to move it, then add "delete" to the main page
#
aaronparecki.com created /Micropub-brainstorming (+5685) "move brainstorming section from main page" (view diff)
#
aaronparecki.com edited /Micropub () "(-5628) move brainstorming section to new page" (view diff)
#
GWG Tantek, a few areas need adjustment. Will alter when I next have a full keyboard abd add a webmentions plugin page.
#
GWG Semantic Linkbacks only changes the type if it determines it's a reply.
#
GWG aaronpk, I wonder if anyone will make a micropub mobile app.
#
aaronpk hopefully
#
aaronpk i already have one
#
aaronpk but not for notes
#
GWG aaronpk, by the time one is out for Android, maybe someone will get MicroPub into Wordpress.
#
tantek GWG - not if it's just a "mention" ?
#
GWG I would love to, but it is too far down on my list right now
#
GWG Tantek, precisely.
#
tantek ohhh
#
tantek then why is mention(default) the first thing in the list of type indicators?
#
tantek if it doesn't change the type for mentions?
#
GWG Tantek, there are 2 types
#
GWG One is the comment type, the other is the Linkbacks type
#
tantek.com edited /Semantic_Linkbacks (+43) "note in-reply-to markup needed for switching to type comment" (view diff)
#
GWG One is a WordPress default, the other a plugin extension.
EOGreer joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /Semantic_Linkbacks (-3) "linkback to comment" (view diff)
KevinMarks joined the channel
#
@brienthess ind.ie is developing a p2p cloud alternative, social network client, social network, and phone. https://ind.ie/be-the-hope/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/530791940912971776)
#
tantek aaronpk, wow - someone new is apparently needing repost/quotation/reply markup advice *right now* in #microformats!
#
tantek I'm helping them out, but check logs for background/context
#
aaronpk !
#
tantek aaronpk, rather than invite them here, I'm helping them in #microformats where it is quieter and so a single topic of discussion for a new person is a friendlier experience
#
tantek is anyone here publishing quotation posts as a different post type / presentation?
#
tantek what is a quotation?
#
Loqi A quotation is a type of post that includes a subset of the contents of another post, and a citation of that other post http://indiewebcamp.com/quotation
#
tantek yeah that ^^^
#
aaronpk I have quotations in my bookmarks
#
tantek seems like another form of interaction
#
aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/bookmarks/2014/11/04/1/html-json
#
aaronpk but it's not an explicit post type
#
tantek aaronpk - do you see a quotation as just a feature of a bookmark?
#
aaronpk yes
#
tantek got it
#
tantek note that the real world basis for treating it differently comes from Tumblr
#
tantek and others that post quotations
#
tantek but don't seem to be saving them as bookmarks
#
aaronpk right
#
tantek any more than they save anything else they link to as a bookmark
#
tantek I'm not disputing your usage, merely saying others may (and do) treat quotations differently
#
aaronpk I just personally haven't published anything I would consider purely a quotation
#
aaronpk I guess the closest thing to a quotation I have published are "OH" posts, but that's always quoting something verbal
#
ben_thatmustbeme the problem i'm always faced with is what defines brainstorming vs personal implementation vs general implementation
#
ben_thatmustbeme i do explicit crud
#
tantek aaronpk, you may want to update http://indiewebcamp.com/quotation#Aaron_Parecki :)
#
aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: hi! do you have anything written up about your crud micropub?
#
aaronpk ooh
#
ben_thatmustbeme no, i don't but I should
#
tantek.com edited /posts (+16) "/* Kinds of Posts */ quotation" (view diff)
#
aaronpk tantek: did you notice that I managed to properly redirect all the crazy wordpress URLs? :D
scor joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme i briefly describe it in the Explicit Crud section
#
ben_thatmustbeme of http://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub-brainstorming
#
aaronpk I wasn't sure if that was how you actually implemented it
#
tantek.com edited /posts (+131) "move AS to re-use section for new post types" (view diff)
#
ben_thatmustbeme it is
#
KevinMarks The savepublishing.com tweets are quotations
#
tantek.com edited /posts (+36) "/* Kinds of Posts */ roughly re-order based on frequency" (view diff)
#
aaronparecki.com edited /quotation (-150) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ update my example section" (view diff)
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk, still haven't seen any activity on that Ruby lang bug causing auth errors for indieauth
#
aaronpk aw weird
#
ben_thatmustbeme if it goes too long i'll see if i can patch it myself
#
tantek.com edited /posts (+60) "/* Kinds of Posts */ move quotation and session to one site only so far" (view diff)
#
ben_thatmustbeme its possible to get around it by just recreating the @agent object each time
#
aaronpk i looked at that, I thought it was already being created each time
#
tantek.com edited /quotation (+70) "note using p3k since and using WordPress since" (view diff)
#
tantek new question - content snippets within an article that are datetime sensitive (e.g. about "future" events) that you may want to "auto disappear" after a certain date - is anyone doing this?
#
mko No, but I love that idea.
#
tantek e.g. "(reminder: yearbook photos tomorrow)" is only valid for the day of the post, and after the event has happened, I want the entire paragraph to just stop showing up
#
mko s/No, but/No, I haven't seen that before, but
#
Loqi mko meant to say: No, I haven't seen that before, but I love that idea.
#
Loqi gives tantek the entire paragraph to just stop showing up
#
mko I haven't seen any sort of expiring post logic really by anyone. Even the last time I checked, h-events that people have posted didn't give any explicit indication that the event had passed.
#
tantek yes Loqi, this is a real world use case, last paragraph of this section: http://tantek.com/2014/308/b2/my-first-year-november-project#npsf-yearbook-huffman
#
Loqi :)
#
tantek mko - this is about a content snippet/fragment in a larger post, not an entire post
#
tantek actual content to be auto-hidden after the date: (Reminder: NovemberProject 2014 Yearbook Photos Are Tomorrow!)
#
tantek thus this is a personal itch for me with a real world use-case
#
tantek I'm wondering if anyone has ever wanted to do this with a sentence or paragraph of any of their blog posts?
#
tantek Or am I the only one who has a real world example so far?
#
tantek And mko has a future itch :)
#
aaronpk is this snippet public?
#
tantek yes
#
aaronpk interesting
#
tantek whole post i
#
aaronpk i can't think of when I would use that
#
tantek is
#
tantek I put such timely reminders in my posts
#
tantek to help with the immediacy / time context for people that read them that same day
#
tantek (which is a lot of my readers - anecdotally)
#
tantek so it's particularly useful to them
#
mko I realize. My point is that the use case for that includes things like h-event posts could benefit from this as well as a real-world use case. For example: http://known.kevinmarks.com/2014/homebrew-website-club-october-22-2014 has come and past, so the "Come early for a quiet writing hour from 17:30-18:30" could be considered the same type of information (timely only to the people who are reading prior to the event).
#
tantek and I like the idea that immediate readers get more / richer content
#
tantek mko - except that in cases like events and event posts, the entire context of the event is something datetime-specific
#
tantek so you don't have to hide anything
#
mko Fair enough.
#
tantek in the case above - I wrote a historical blog post, with a few snippets of forward looking information that are the exception
#
tantek that's the specific use-case I'm talking about
#
tantek so that others that find/link to the blog post in the future don't get confused by the seemingly out of (time) context information
#
aaronpk you're effectively talking about updating the post after some date to remove a section
#
mko Yeah. https://mowens.com/articles/2013/01/13/1/design-prototyping-101 used to have a paragraph at the end advertising my class that I ran at PariSoma in 2013 about Design Prototyping.
#
tantek right!
#
mko I manually removed it after the class.
#
tantek a-ha! ok so you did have a real world use-case!
#
aaronpk except it's an automatic update based on a date
#
mko Yeah. I absolutely love that idea.
#
tantek thus use-case / scenario 1: simply hide the content after a certain date
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk, weird it looks like it should be
#
aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: ok yeah I thought so too
#
tantek use-case / scenario 2 is: *update* the content after a certain date
#
tantek e.g., same post
#
tantek this section: http://tantek.com/2014/308/b2/my-first-year-november-project#half-marathon-hills-track
#
tantek phrase: "hopefully this Sunday at the Berkeley Half. " <-- obviously date-sensitive
#
tantek and is a forward looking statement about an unknown
#
mko Yeah. I like the idea that it could be a toggle of content. I had considered posting my slides from the class publicly and replacing it with an embedded slideshow after the event.
#
tantek after that date, the information will be known
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk, i was able to recreate that issue only by keeping the agent around long enough. it might be something internally in mechanize, but i believe i had tested that, creating a new agent i thought had fixed it
#
tantek so I'd like to have a) some automatic update to the content before I get the chance to provide an actual update, and b) an easy place/slot to put the *new* information to overide the automatic update
#
tantek mko - right, slides vs slideshow - great example
KevinMarks joined the channel
#
tantek also: from the recent indiewebcamp: live stream vs. archived videos
#
mko Indeed.
#
tantek mko - now that we've established that there's a real world use-case that 2+ of us have encountered for such temporally sensitive content fragments, let's try to name it
#
mko Ephemeral Content?
#
tantek what would you call this problem that we're trying to solve? or the specific effect we're looking for?
#
tantek right, that sort of thing
#
tantek Time-sensitive content?
#
tantek I feel like the expiration date aspect is important
#
tantek there's a certain date (perhaps even time) at which point the content should no longer be shown, and *optionally* something else should be automatically shown instead
#
mko I like the idea of being tongue-in-cheek and calling it Self Destructing Message
#
tantek :P
#
tantek Expiring Content?
#
tantek anyway - keep brainstorming
#
tantek bbiab
#
mko I do think there's a distinction between Time-Sensitive and Time-Sensitive That Expires.
#
mko I like Expiring Content, but it doesn't imply that it disappears.
#
tantek mko - because it might disappear or be updated
#
tantek Timing-out content
#
mko Fair enough.
#
mko Expiring Content is probably the most accurate description.
#
tantek are there any examples of any CMS's which do this e.g. wordpress etc., and if so what do they call this "feature"
#
tantek there's also the opposite, which is content that doesn't show up *until* a certain date, AKA "embargoed content"
#
mko https://wordpress.org/plugins/expiring-content-shortcode/
#
mko Expiring vs Scheduled
#
mko https://wordpress.org/plugins/content-scheduler/
#
tantek whoa! nice find!
#
tantek mko++
#
Loqi mko has 14 karma
#
tantek what is scheduled
#
Loqi scheduling in the context of the indieweb, refers to the feature of setting a specific time for a post to be published in the future http://indiewebcamp.com/scheduled
#
tantek yup - already documented that one :)
#
tantek (and supported on my site)
#
mko Yeah. Thought so. I've got scheduled content on my site (and backposted as well).
#
tantek ok, sounds like expiring content is a good start
#
tantek re-using the name from that wp plugin
#
mko tantek++
#
Loqi tantek has 115 karma
#
tantek what is expiring content?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "expiring content" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=expiring+content
#
ben_thatmustbeme hmm, well my choice to only allow webmentions via vouch or whitelist hasn't hindered me at all... since like 90% of my webmentions are from brid.gy
#
kylewm.com edited /site-deaths (+352) "/* Past */ added repost.us" (view diff)
stream7 and mlncn-agaric joined the channel
#
kylewm.com edited /repost (+976) "/* Challenges */ add markup for full content reposts" (view diff)
mlncn-agaric joined the channel
#
cadr http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-snell-link-method-01.html for spamantic linkback?
#
cadr still kno idea what /trackback is, but my HTTP logs are full of bots attempting to do it
agaric and KevinMarks__ joined the channel
#
cadr not crazy about whitelisting, as who knows who might want to legitimately have a backlink. requiring WebID/Persona credentials and valid mf2/rdfa in remote doc with an actual complementary link seems like a good start?
#
@jmsmcfrlnd I believe it will require many many approaches to discover what enables a digital network to be free of siren servers. #indieweb ind.ie (twitter.com/_/status/530808111653609472)
xxcoeurxx, benwerd and EOGreer joined the channel
#
kylewm cadr: have you followed http://indiewebcamp.com/vouch ? seems pretty much in line with what your suggesting
#
kylewm you're*
#
@jmsmcfrlnd my current humble understanding is that @indie and #indieweb are heading to the same place, and I also think @eff is close. (twitter.com/_/status/530810747891089409)
#
ben_thatmustbeme so anyone know what exactly is "Launching" tomorrow in ind.ie?
#
ben_thatmustbeme with this "thunderclap" idea, i'm thinking we may get flooded in this chat by references to indie all at once
friedcell, gr0k, friedcell1, elima and friedcell2 joined the channel
#
benwerd ben_thatmustbeme It's a crowdfunding campaign for his social platform I believe - and possibly the phone itself
#
Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message on 11/5 at 1:24pm: Here's a challenge re: support/want/like "native" comments on your blog/site from "anyone with an email address" http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-11-05/line/1415222606077
agaric, scor, shiflett, jnymck and KevinMarks joined the channel
#
@leolaporte @echoboom3r I use https://withknown.com/ - it’s part of the #indieweb movement. http://leoville.net (twitter.com/_/status/530817185250160640)
tantek joined the channel
#
GWG I can't say that not posting for 21 days on a service, while posting on other services, is using Known
#
@benwerd RT @leolaporte: @echoboom3r I use https://withknown.com/ - it’s part of the #indieweb movement. http://leoville.net (twitter.com/_/status/530820230310670336)
stream7 joined the channel
#
david.shanske.com edited /Semantic_Linkbacks (+313) (view diff)
stream7 joined the channel
#
kylewm oh funny, This Week in Indieweb email sends out at 1pm instead of 2pm now that DST is over
#
aaronpk uhoh
#
aaronpk oh that's right actually
#
aaronpk the server's clock is UTC
#
kylewm I have a thing every friday at 2:15 and I was using the email to remind me it was time to leave :)
#
aaronpk LOL
jnymck and EOGreer joined the channel
#
mko Where do you sign up for this TWII email?
#
aaronpk you give me your email address
#
aaronpk i haven't made a form yet
#
mko lol. Okay, aaronpk. Add mk@mowens.com to that list please. :-)
#
aaronpk added
#
aaronpk :)
#
benwerd aaronpk: I would love to also join! ben@withknown.com
pauloppenheim joined the channel
#
bear this week in indieweb email?
#
Loqi bear: tantek left you a message on 11/6 at 6:16pm: for your consideration, fresh definitions of UI and UX off the top of my head, with Bridgy in mind as something that has both: http://indiewebcamp.com/user-interface and http://indiewebcamp.com/user-experience
#
Loqi bear: tantek left you a message on 11/6 at 6:19pm: per this tweet https://twitter.com/theunfocused/status/530487725582200833
richardlitt, j12t, scor and KevinMarks joined the channel
#
aaronpk benwerd: you are added too!
#
benwerd aaronpk: thank you!
#
aaronpk this is kind of a site death: http://boards.darkhorse.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21563
#
aaronpk interesting comment: "Social media is so frustrating for a lot of the types of exchanges that went on here because it's so ephemeral. Miss something you're interested in on Facebook and good like finding it again."
#
voxpelli aaronpk: would love to be added as well, pelle@kodfabrik.se :)
#
aaronpk done!
tilgovi and wolftune joined the channel
#
@coderdojoli RT @kid_OYO: Teach #webliteracy 1)Facebook is result of web illiteracy 2)#indieweb is starting point of personal data value 3)make #edu,not… (twitter.com/_/status/530839845535760385)
EOGreer, dns53, friedcell, tilgovi, stream7, pauloppenheim, gr0k, richardlitt, tantek, tantek_, wolftune and acegiak joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /events/next-hwc (+0) "next" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /Main_Page (+168) "next hwc, 2015 iwcs" (view diff)
#
tantek though I suppose next IWC should be Online IWC rather than 2015 -
#
tantek who here is organizing IWC Online? could you update the home page and /next-iwc ?
wolftune joined the channel