#indiewebcamp 2014-11-08

2014-11-08 UTC
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@leogaggl RT @bear: "This is my favorite kind of UX: none at all." - congrats for reaching a 1000 users - https://snarfed.org/2014-11-06_happy-1000th-bridgy #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/530877960257929218)
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tantek good afternoon #indiewebcamp
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rascul hi
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rascul is there a page for online? i can't remember
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tantek what is IndieWebCamp Online?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "IndieWebCamp Online" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=IndieWebCamp+Online
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rascul found it http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Online
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tantek thank
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tantek.com created /IndieWebCamp_Online (+25) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2014/ (+26) "add Online" (view diff)
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tantek still around mko? has anyone else found themselves with "expiring content" inside otherwise semi-timeless blog posts / articles?
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mko I'm still here, but I'm cranking away at work stuff.
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tantek what is expiring
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "expiring" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=expiring
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tantek mko - cool, I'll write up the brainstorming so far and you can give it a look-see later
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mko Sounds good.
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mko Thanks!
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tantek what is scheduled?
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Loqi scheduling in the context of the indieweb, refers to the feature of setting a specific time for a post to be published in the future http://indiewebcamp.com/scheduled
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GWG I see someone asked about IWC Online.
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tantek.com edited /scheduling (+365) "/* Brainstorming */ add Scheduled Content question, relate to expiring content" (view diff)
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GWG I need to have a long chat with ben_thatmustbeme
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tantek why long?
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tantek GWG, could you update /next-iwc ?
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GWG tantek: We wanted to use Hangouts. We need to try it out and figure out how to work things
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tantek GWG - could you collect all such "need to XYZ" things in a "To Do" section on /2014/Online ?
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tantek that way when you do get the chance to coordinate with ben_thatmustbeme, all you have to do is go to /2014/Online#To_Do and go through everything that's been collected so far.
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david.shanske.com edited /next-iwc (+7) "Redirected page to [[/2014/Online]]" (view diff)
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tantek get those "open loops" out of your head/IRC and onto the wiki page
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tantek GWG, could you also update http://indiewebcamp.com/#next accordingly?
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david.shanske.com edited /next-iwc (-1) "Redirected page to [[2014/Online]]" (view diff)
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bret.io edited /short-domains (+117) "/* Criticisms */ feedly-url-shortener-retired" (view diff)
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GWG tantek: Am I removing IWC Cambridge?
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GWG I'll figure it out.
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tantek GWG - the home page should always show the very next IWC - as it has historically :)
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tantek it's good practice to make sure details of "current" / most recent IWC has been captured on /IndieWebCamps
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tantek s/has/have
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Loqi tantek meant to say: it's good practice to make sure details of "current" / most recent IWC have been captured on /IndieWebCamps
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mko Alright. Off for a while. Have a good weekend, all!
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david.shanske.com edited /Main_Page (-496) "/* IndieWebCamp */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /Main_Page (+21) "/* IndieWebCamp */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /Main_Page (+6) "/* IndieWebCamp */" (view diff)
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npdoty it's pretty exciting to be able to enter a credit card number to purchase an indieweb service
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david.shanske.com edited /Main_Page (+0) "/* IndieWebCamp */" (view diff)
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Loqi npdoty: tantek left you a message on 10/26 at 8:21pm: 1) for automated spam, I'm pretty convinced /vouch squashes it. 2) for abuse and targeted spam (which is just a form of abuse), we have /block - which frankly is a solved problem - Flickr got it right, everyone else needs to just copy their model. 3) for ways to publish blocklists, see http://microformats.org/wiki/blocklist. 4) what will you implement on your own site? write it down on /User:Npdoty.name perhaps in a new sec
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tantek huh, network is too slow / lossy, (some, most) web pages not loading (damn bloated CMS web pages with too many HTTP requests and JS done by sloppy web devs)
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npdoty oh man, Loqi, that message is *so* out of date
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Loqi is done
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tantek npdoty Loqi is just telling you you've been away for a long time
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npdoty yeah, she really punishes us lurkers
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tantek also - best to RSVP for meetups you intend to come to ;) we canceled / made online this week because only 2 of us had RSVP to HWC SF.
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npdoty I RSVP'ed with you in person! but then forgot to follow up in a machine-readable way ;)
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GWG tantek: Are you attending IWC Online?
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npdoty tantek, it sounds like Loqi got the last bit of this cut off, but I think I'm unlikely to implement /vouch (for send or receive), but will try to implement abuse endpoints and blocklists
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tantek npdoty, RSVPd in person - oh yeah! totally forgot. in-person storage is not reliably indexed into queryable storage.
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tantek GWG - not sure, hence delegating everything about it back to you ;)
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tantek.com created /expiring_content (+2178) "stub with dfn, to do, real world needs, wp plugins, brainstorming, see also" (view diff)
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npdoty tantek, indeed, it's a major bug with human interaction
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GWG tantek: I was asking because so far we have no attendees.
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tantek GWG - you have the two organizers
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GWG Yes
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tantek so you have two *participants* :)
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GWG I just need to work on my cheerleading
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tantek IWC does not have attendees, only participants.
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GWG "Participate in IWC Online"
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GWG "Participate in IWC Online"
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david.shanske.com edited /Semantic_Linkbacks (+1) (view diff)
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david.shanske.com created /Webmentions_Plugin (+472) "Created page with "''The '<dfn>[https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmentions Webmentions] Plugin</dfn>''' is a [[WordPress]] plugin that adds [[webmentions]] support to WordPress. Incoming w..."" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com moved /Webmentions_Plugin to /Webmention_Plugin "Typo"
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david.shanske.com edited /Semantic_Linkbacks (-1) "/* Related Plugins */" (view diff)
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npdoty what is IWC Online?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "IWC Online" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=IWC+Online
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kylewm.com created /IWC_Online (+25) "Redirected page to [[2014/Online]]" (view diff)
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GWG kylewm: I was just about to do that
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kylewm.com edited /2014/Online (+11) "/* IndieWebCampOnline 2014 */ GWG I only communicate through wiki change summaries now" (view diff)
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npdoty kylewm++
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Loqi kylewm has 78 karma
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david.shanske.com edited /2014/Online (+86) "/* IndieWebCampOnline 2014 */ Kylewm....2 can play that game" (view diff)
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GWG What is Indiewebcamp Online?
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Loqi Join us for the very first IndieWebCamp Online - IndiewebCamp Online is a one-day IndieWebCamp conducted entirely online without a physical venue http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieWebCamp_Online
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david.shanske.com edited /2014/Online (-1) "/* IndieWebCampOnline 2014 */ Parsing" (view diff)
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GWG What is Indiewebcamp Online?
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Loqi Join us for the very first IndieWebCamp Online. IndiewebCamp Online is a one-day IndieWebCamp conducted entirely online without a physical venue http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieWebCamp_Online
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GWG Feh
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GWG sends participation request to kylewm
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kylewm GWG: in IWC Online? I'm fairly sure I'll be able to participate
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GWG kylewm: You should add yourself to the Guest List
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kylewm.com edited /2014/Online/Guest_List (+219) "/* Participants */ add me" (view diff)
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GWG kylewm: Glad to have you aboard.
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ben_thatmust yay, kylewm
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ben_thatmust IWC Online will have at least 3 people
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ben_thatmust I'm sure we'll have a bunch more here and there
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GWG ben_thatmust: When is dry run day?
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ben_thatmust i was just about to ask that
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ben_thatmust sunday?
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ben_thatmust or we could sometime tomorr
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ben_thatmust ow*
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GWG I'm free Sunday morning or tomorrow
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GWG tomorrow I have no specific plans, so I can work around nothing
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ben_thatmust hmm, tomorrow morning i'm not sure of my schedule, sunday morning i'm free until 1
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ben_thatmust i'll probably be up early,
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ben_thatmust Do you think we should start proposing topics before hand?
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GWG ben_thatmust: Sunday morning is fine.
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ben_thatmust done
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GWG What time?
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GWG For a simulated run?
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ben_thatmust hmm 10?
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ben_thatmust i don't know what time you get up. I get up at like 7 probably
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GWG 10 is fine.
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GWG I get up before that, but I work till 10 at night...then turn around, go to bed, and do an early shift Monday morning
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ben_thatmust ouch
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ben_thatmust what do you do?
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GWG I take abuse, mostly.
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ben_thatmust haha, okay, i'm going to go lie down until my wife passes out then i'll probably be back
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ben_thatmust lol
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GWG I'll be around.
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GWG I nodded off already
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/Online/Guest_List (+345) "rsvp!" (view diff)
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indiewebcat.com edited /2014/Online/Guest_List (+292) "meow!" (view diff)
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GWG We got Indiewebcat attending...we've hit the big time
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indiewebcat meow!
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indiewebcat.com edited /IRC_People (+94) "meow!" (view diff)
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ben_thatmust i should buy indiewebdog
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ben_thatmust .com
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ben_thatmust heh
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GWG Why don't you?
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ben_thatmust PauseTheDog.com perhaps
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Loqi yea
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ben_thatmust meh, seems like a silly thing to waste money on
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ben_thatmust at least right now
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GWG Silly can be fun
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GWG I'm just looking forward to a day where I focus on Indieweb
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ben_thatmust yeah, i had to slow down a lot lately
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ben_thatmust had a lot of work lately
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GWG Ditto. Also, I was very busy in September, and I'm in the midst of another separate project to get rid of my junk
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@soapfanfiction Saturday Night! Come Check INN. Don't mind the screams! #indieweb fun @THEINNSERIES http://www.prettytheseries.com or @JTSTV http://www.jts.tv/ (twitter.com/_/status/530992027471581184)
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Loqi [mention] http://workingdraft.de/193/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Webmention (pingback)
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@JTSTV RT @soapfanfiction: Saturday Night! Come Check INN. Don't mind the screams! #indieweb fun @THEINNSERIES http://www.prettytheseries.com or @JTSTV ht… (twitter.com/_/status/531125923819814912)
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GWG !tell acegiak I'm commenting out the upgrade function. I know you intend to roll your own solution, but even though I can't reproduce the problem and it is possible your data is somewhere in the database, I don't want to risk affecting anyone else.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG sighs
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pdurbin GWG: https://plus.google.com/+JustinLee1/posts/1BqXF6KLXZs
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GWG pdurbin: Still feel bad.
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GWG I admit to being an amateur. Plays into my feelings of programming inadequacy.
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pdurbin I try not to get too emotional about bugs.
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@jaffathecake @robinince the indie web movement is well worth supporting, though http://indiewebcamp.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/531134045288411136)
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GWG pdurbin, I'll have to press on.
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pdurbin yep
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GWG pdurbin, what are you up to?
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Loqi Welcome to news about the IndieWeb where recent notable articles about the IndieWeb are cited and linked to keep you up to date http://indiewebcamp.com/you_up_to
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GWG Coming to IWC Online?
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GWG Loqi, I was asking pdurbin.
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pdurbin heh
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pdurbin GWG: bringing my kids and their friend to the pool soon
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GWG Sounds nice. Too cold for that here.
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pdurbin indoor pool. heated. belongs to the town/high school
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zzzen.com created /User:Zzzen.com (+243) "Created page with "Don't know how this wiki works yet. https://zzzen.com is actually 2 people, but my personal domain https://dubiousdod.org redirects from / so it's not so good for authentication..."" (view diff)
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GWG pdurbin, I am off to buy a cheap access point to try and eliminate a dead zone without having to run a wire in an inconvenient place
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pdurbin cool
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zzzen.com edited /2014/Online/Guest_List (+235) "Added The Dod" (view diff)
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zzzen.com edited /2014/Online/Guest_List (-23) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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@adactio @jrelgin http://www.vavatch.co.uk/books/banks/cultnote.htm http://ScienceHackDay.org https://indiewebcamp.com (twitter.com/_/status/531149585205297152)
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thedod Hi
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thedod Just added myself to the RSVP, and even tried to ping from a post (not sure if it worked :) )
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pdurbin thedod: Loqi let us know about the wiki edit :)
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Loqi :)
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thedod :) I see it in the logs now
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thedod Anyway, it's a LOL that I got to a place that actually has text about "why not OpenID" trying to promote HiddenID :)
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thedod Even if not, I think it would be fun
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thedod not many conventions here (NE Thailand)
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thedod I think I'll order cold pizza for the occasion
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pdurbin what is HiddenID
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "HiddenID" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=HiddenID
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thedod I'd love to create such a page
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thedod https://hidden-id.github.io
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pdurbin is it an indieweb thing? if so, go ahead!
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pdurbin "Accountability and reputation for Tor users"
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thedod it tries to solve 2 problems:
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thedod a recent one - tor users are treated like 2nd class citizens
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thedod an earlier one: the "right to troll" http://is.gd/savethetrolls
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pdurbin do I have the right to troll?
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thedod tl;dr gay, cancer patient, job seeker desrves 3 identities
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thedod "cancer patient" is even protected by medical confidentiality
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pdurbin oh sure, I have at least two identies online: http://thedurbins.com/phil/blog/2012/01/14/my-split-personality-online.html
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thedod reads
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thedod maybe you should [install hiddenid and] post this as a comment at https://zzzen.com/hiddenid
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thedod ;)
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thedod still reading
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pdurbin well, now I'm really going to the pool
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pdurbin o/
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thedod bye. cool post
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car why is "hidden" not in quotes. too lazy to install that curious-traffic-concentrating navy-research thing w/ honeypot qualities
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thedod Good definition
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thedod BTW you don't need to install tor for this. You run tor browser, and once it's up you run the script (the way onionshare works)
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thedod anyway, one of the things HiddenID tries to achieve is show that "tor users won't bite yout site"
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thedod A good place to start is WP comments. Try it. If you get spammed, remove it. I have a gut feeling that users with the HiddenID icons would be leave interesting comments the blogger would love to hear
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thedod especially in communities where anonymity is important (e.g. abused wives)
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thedod Anyway: if you don't build it, they won't come, so there :)
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bret.io edited /User:Bret.io (+99) "/* Current IndieWeb Projects */ added link to base" (view diff)
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car well, why does 4chan not use tor?
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car i just see an infinite sea of wiki-specs and w3c-specs coming out of various groups and wonder what's the incentive to implement *any* of it. not a hater, just curious. and ridiculously broke and i cant see any reason to spend my time working on this crap
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car seems like the way to go is just sign an NDA and become google/facebook/salaryman
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kylewm car: what are you spending your time working on?
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kylewm bret: do you have a demo site up for base?
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kylewm oooor I could just have tried http://bret.io/base/ :)
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thedod back
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thedod car: do you claim that tor, as a living, peer-reviewing, bug-patching community isn't the best shot at anonymity today? (no disrespect to I2P)
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thedod I'm not part of that community. Just a user.
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thedod And I think that if tomorrow we move from tor to some other solution, accountability would still be a problem (even on "brightnet" it is)
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aaronpk I don't really understand how HiddenID is useful for someone's personal website
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aaronpk anyway there's no reason someone couldn't just make 4 different domains for their 4 different identities
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aaronpk there's no "real name" policy on the internet
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@myfreeweb Webmention endpoint discovery in Haskell. Probably the best function ever written :-) This is how … https://unrelenting.technology/notes/2014-11-08-19-53-03 (twitter.com/_/status/531172596776067072)
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bret kylewm: just a wip, I want to switch over to using it soon. my current set up as too much baggage
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thedod back
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thedod There are 2 sides to HiddenID: users and sites (e.g. blogs).
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thedod Let's assume that users would have incentive to use HiddenID because this way they can login from tor and be identified
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bret car if you don't see any reason to do something you should't probably do it, or complain about it in irc.
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thedod not deanonymized
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thedod just accountable, as in "the same one who was here yesterday"
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thedod now what it means to you as someone with a site is,
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thedod if you support HiddenID you'll get users from tor who [I believe] are cool people
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thedod to tor user I plan to say they should have HiddenId so that they can comment at your cool site ;)
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car bret no i should do it to figure out what the reason was
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car obviously it's not "so barnaby thinks you're cool" or so 3 people who are probably actually yandex employees or rich guys woh've solde a few startups doing this as their hobby log in and say "tada it works" then your code rots..
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thedod aaronpk, some people can have 4 domains, others are abused wives or dissidents. they prefer setting up a hidden service :)
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aaronpk I guess I'm saying someone could just as well have a website that doesn't reflect their real name at all
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aaronpk and completely not linked to a different website that might have their real name
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thedod they register a domain. they need SSL. They leave a footprint
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aaronpk being completely anonymous is different from having an online identity that is different/separate/not-linked-to a real-world identity
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thedod When I did a cert for zzzen.com, the guy woke up my Mum 5 timezones away to verify
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aaronpk not sure where you got your cert from... it's relatively easy to get a cert without that
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thedod not talking about completely, but good-enough-for-assad-not-to-torture-my-family-maybe
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thedod startssl.com
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thedod I have no complaint about that
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aaronpk weird, I definitely have never talked to a human before to get all my SSL certs
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thedod but I wouldn't want it if I wanted to say something bad about a government
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thedod I didn't. My Mum did
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aaronpk are you younger than 18?
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thedod I'm virtually retired
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thedod wanna see the stamp in the passort? brb
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aaronpk no not really lol
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aaronpk I'm just wondering how someone else had to be involved in you getting an SSL cert cause i've never heard of that before
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@eastgate @kevinmarks One solution leaves your indieweb as vibrant and active as usenet. I’m looking for something better. (twitter.com/_/status/531178414410326018)
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myfreeweb when I tried startssl, a human support employee told me I used a business address and not a personal address
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thedod Easy.
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thedod I need to provide a physical address
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thedod I'm an expat
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myfreeweb yeah, the physical address requirement is the worst thing about domains and certificates
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petermolnar is the cacert idea dead? can it be revisited? ( circle of trust ssl )
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myfreeweb registrars mostly don't care
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thedod Easier to leave my Mum's details because I keep moving
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myfreeweb petermolnar: well, cacert isn't dead, but it's not getting very popular because it's not accepted in the mozilla cert bundle
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petermolnar I know
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petermolnar I mean I know it's not accepted
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petermolnar that is the issue
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thedod Hidden services don't require physical address :)
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petermolnar that is what should be somehow changed
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thedod re retirement, found the photo: https://dubiousdod.org/go/TheDod and click on "retired"
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thedod It's not like I don't work anymore, but I don't need to leave the country to renew my visa
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aaronpk oh yeah I did apparently have to put in my address on startssl. had forgotten about that, and i've moved twice since then so I should probably update it.
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aaronpk petermolnar: you can always request an ssl cert from indiewebcamp ;) https://ssl.pin13.net/indiewebcamp/
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thedod If you don't have a class 2 identity, it expires after a while anyway :)
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aaronpk I don't, but I can't find a place to update it
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aaronpk I've been meaning to do the class2 validation so I can get free wildcard certs
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thedod you need to apply for class 2,
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thedod then fill a stasi evaluation form or whatever the CA require
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thedod :)
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petermolnar aaronpk I did not know about that option :)
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aaronpk petermolnar: yeah I set up a root CA so that I can generate SSL certs for non-internet dev domains for testing
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thedod it costs money, and you somehow ID yourself (passport scan? don't remember), and a lawyer signs it and stuff
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kylewm petermolnar: CACert is a circle of trust thing? I thought it was just a non-profit issuer
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aaronpk yeah passport scan and $60 USD
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thedod I'll live without the wildcard certs :) I try to minimize leaking metadata :)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/adactio/531149585205297152/531182879913816064 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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GWG aaronpk: I did Class 2 validation with startssl. I got a call from Israel at 2AM.
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pdurbin thedod: if you ask nice you might be able to get https://github.com/hiddenid
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thedod pdurbin, wow. How do I do that?
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thedod btw, pdurbin, linked to your split-pesonality post: https://zzzen.com/hiddenid/?p=47#comment-22
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pdurbin thedod: just email GitHub support. That's what I did.
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pdurbin and I'm glad you liked my post :)
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thedod pdurbin, thanks. I'll try mailing them
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Loqi [mention] http://ls6.withknown.com/bookmark/39f7295464235ede2c9476ffe0698d0a/http-indiewebcampcom- linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://zzzen.com/hiddenid/?p=74 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (pingback)
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thedod ouch. pingback is to the wrong guestlist, but now it says "The source URI does not exist"
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GWG I don't think you can attend an event that already occurred.
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thedod GWG, that wasn't my intention, of course :) some copy/paste error.
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GWG If it's in the wiki, tell me. I'll fix it.
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thedod thanks. should have been Online instead of Cambridge. https://zzzen.com/hiddenid/?p=74 already has the right link
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thedod I mean: http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Online/Guest_List instead of https://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Guest_List
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aaronpk hello friends!
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aaronpk I just prettied up the microformats parser on pin13.net
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aaronpk http://pin13.net/mf2/
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aaronpk now works via both fetching a remote URL as well as pasting in HTML directly
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zzzen.com edited /IRC_People (+91) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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acegiak GWG: "rolling my own" at the moment is just extracting the metadata section of an older version of the taxonomy plugin
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Loqi acegiak: GWG left you a message 1 day, 8 hours ago: I will check it out.
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Loqi acegiak: GWG left you a message 6 hours, 58 minutes ago: I'm commenting out the upgrade function. I know you intend to roll your own solution, but even though I can't reproduce the problem and it is possible your data is somewhere in the database, I don't want to risk affecting anyone else.
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acegiak which works perfectly well as a standalone
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GWG So, the metadata is still there?
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GWG Just isn't displaying because of the new location?
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GWG It didn't get deleted?
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acegiak no it did get deleted
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GWG Oh
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GWG Still confused about that.
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GWG And I still feel bad about it
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acegiak it got deleted when my stupid upgrade process did something like removing the associated metadata because it was deactivating the plugin on all subsites or something stupid
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GWG I didn't test multisite
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acegiak I don't know what happens and I'm the kind of person who doesn't like holding on to being upset
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acegiak so I'm just getting over it and continuing on
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acegiak but I am gonna run with my own code for now because I want more control over it
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GWG acegiak: If you ever figure it out, I'd like to know to prevent it in future. That is my main concern.
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acegiak yeah, definitely
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Loqi gives acegiak more control over it
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GWG acegiak: Understood about your own code.
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acegiak It was just a dumb thing where I was stuck in bed with the flu so I wanted to do something productive
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acegiak but because my mind wasn't working 100% I didn't back up beforehand even though I knew I should
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GWG How is the flu? Feeling better on that front?
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acegiak yeah coming off the back end now
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acegiak feeling a lot better
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acegiak up and about cleaning today
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acegiak and apparently feeding my twitter addiction
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acegiak since I got a good way to indieweb reply to tweets I've been way more invested in twitter
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GWG Well, my problem with Twitter was the inbound firehose
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acegiak yeah I'm not adding twitter streams to whisperfollow
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GWG It started to get overwhelming
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GWG acegiak: For the time being, I've moved back to the territory of facepiles.
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