#indiewebcamp 2014-11-12

2014-11-12 UTC
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sparverius .define bespoke
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kylewm mko: can you clarify something from http://indiewebcamp.com/scrobble#Michael_Owens -- do you poll last.fm for new listens?
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mko kylewm: I use the Last.fm Push API to listen for new listens.
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aaronpk they have a push api?!?!
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aaronpk how did I not know about this
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aaronpk plz link to docs?
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mko I actually couldn't find it in their docs, but there's a Node module that creates a streaming connection that listens for new pushed events: https://www.npmjs.org/package/lastfm
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aaronpk their docs team got lazy?
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mko Not sure. It also might be the creator of that package hacking a Push-like API into place.
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aaronpk that seems more likely
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mko Ah, yeah. In https://github.com/jammus/lastfm-node/blob/master/lib/lastfm/recenttracks-stream.js it looks like he's actually just polling.
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kylewm ahh ok
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mko But as far as my server is concerned, it's native Node Stream which receives new streamed events.
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aaronpk that is nice
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mko Yeah. I spent more time extracting all my old listens via the Last.fm API than implementing the new scrobbling ability.
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aaronpk i can't wait to do taht for mine
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mko The "new scrobble" was like a 20 minute feature.
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mko The 76,000 data point export/import process was more involved. Lol.
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kylewm possibly a good fit for a PESOS ->micropub service like OwnYourGram
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aaronpk yeah, that was on my list ;)
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mko Yeah. I didn't really want to deal with maintaining a service right now. I barely have time to work on my own stuff, so maintaining an external service would be more work than I'd like to deal with.
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aaronpk it certainly is
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mko The scripts that I wrote are public, though.
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mko https://github.com/mko/mowens.com-public/blob/master/scripts/lastfm-to-file.js and https://github.com/mko/mowens.com-public/blob/master/scripts/lastfm-file-to-hentry.js is everything you need to export/import all your Last.fm data into a Mongo database. You could easily change the mongo insert to be a JSON file save or micropub post.
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kylewm to be clear "possibly a good fit" was not a request for someone else to do that for me :)
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: kylewm: what happened here: https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/532279834760986624 vs https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/no-drupal-noneck why did only aaronpk's replies get sent?
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@kartik_prabhu @noneck because no one @indiewebcamp uses #drupal (twitter.com/_/status/532279834760986624)
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aaronpk whoa are you showing likes of individual replies?!
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KartikPrabhu hmm no. Bridgy sent that as a like of my post
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aaronpk ah
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KartikPrabhu yeah you are right that does look like a "like" of your reply
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KartikPrabhu hmm
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aaronpk it also happens to actually be that
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aaronpk so i was confused/impressed
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KartikPrabhu yeah... maybe or it was tantek hit and run fav
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tantek lol
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: yeah it was a fav of my tweet by tantek
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KartikPrabhu really thought Drupal was some antiquated thing that no one used nowadays
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snarfed drupal has more share in bigger company/org sites, both internal and external facing
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snarfed which is probably why we here aren't as aware of it, since 1) not as many personal sites run it, and 2) not as many of the sites that do run it have badges saying so, since the owners replace them with their own name and logo
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KartikPrabhu hmm
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kylewm one of the core Drupal developers made quite a push on Gittip to develop it full time
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kylewm looks like the experiment mostly failed? https://gratipay.com/alexpott/
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KartikPrabhu hmm hence self-dog food
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tantek KartikPrabhu: pretty sure whitehouse.gov uses drupal :)
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KartikPrabhu hmm any reason big enterprise things use drupal but no personal sites?
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tantek cultural fit?
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tantek maintenance?
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KartikPrabhu yeah i was thinking the second
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KartikPrabhu maybe also inertia
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bear drupal requires a lot of maintenance and detail work to stitch things together into a working site
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bear you have to be all-in for it's core model of data flow
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bear yes, whitehouse.gove uses drupal
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bear s/gove/gov/
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Loqi bear meant to say: yes, whitehouse.gov uses drupal
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bear a lot of hollywood sites are also drupal on the backend
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bear emmys, oscars, etc
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/aaronpk/532314403274620929/11628 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/PHP#Libraries (webmention)
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@relliketh @deewu I found this, it says your htaccess file is either missing or doesn't have access to it: http://indiewebcamp.com/Known Maybe that can help. (twitter.com/_/status/532381319150718976)
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GWG Evening
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Loqi [mention] https://kylewm.com/2014/03/renaming-my-blog-engine-groomsman-to-red-wind linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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cweiske.de edited /search (+114) "/* Software */" (view diff)
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tantek anyone figure out what's up with Drupal?
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tantek what is Drupal?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Drupal" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Drupal
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tantek.com edited /search (+342) "/* Brainstorming */ move brainstorms / futures / possibles from IndieMark to main search page" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /IndieMark (-17) "/* search */ link search main page, move brainstorms / possible futures / features to main search page, Level 5 awaiting real world implementations beyond Level 4" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2014/Online (+54) "/* Schedule */ note sched is in EST, and 22:00 camp closed" (view diff)
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rascul.io edited /2014/Online/Guest_List (+248) "/* Participants */ add myself" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] http://jonathanfrei.com linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Online/Guest_List (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://stlk.cjbahamachat.com/blogs.php?pg=16898 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/pingback (pingback)
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cweiske oh
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cweiske nice, spam
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cweiske tricky. linback header in the http response, but the response is a 301
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cweiske nice hack
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aaronpk oh is that what's going on?
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aaronpk no, there's no html body in the response
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aaronpk i'm still gonna go with the theory of a one-time HTML response followed by future 301 responses
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GWG aaronpk does spam mean we've become mainstream?
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aaronpk well considering it was a pingback spam, no
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aaronpk :)
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snarfed we still have yet to see a true native webmention spam in the wild, right?
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aaronpk i believe so
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aaronpk i'm tempted to be the first ;)
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snarfed wouldn't count! :P
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GWG aaronpk, it should be indiewebcat.
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snarfed may that sleeping dragon long slumber
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GWG snarfed, I had a question for you.
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snarfed GWG: shoot
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GWG Tantek nominated both of us to the WordPress outreach committee. I decided I would accept the nomination. Are you going to?
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@kylewm2 The https://indiewebcamp.com/vouch protocol means you can accept comments from 3rd parties that your trusted contacts ha… https://kylewm.com/2014/11/the-https-indiewebcamp-com-vouch-protocol-means-you (twitter.com/_/status/532583221666406400)
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Loqi [mention] https://kylewm.com/2014/11/the-https-indiewebcamp-com-vouch-protocol-means-you linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/vouch (webmention)
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snarfed GWG: we might be overthinking that "committee" a bit :P
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GWG snarfed, I don't plan on suggesting meetings.
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snarfed i'm definitely happy to help people w/wordpress when i can, of course! but we'll case by case. e.g. twitter is kinda the worst possible medium for helping someone with sysadmin debugging
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GWG snarfed, I just don't want to proselytize alone.
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ben_thatmustbeme i was tempted to set up a new domain and start spamming
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ben_thatmustbeme force some implementation fixes real quick
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snarfed GWG: definitely not! lots of us here use wordpress, and we've all been helping others more or less as things come up. i think that's probably working ok as is
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@sandhu_hdm @memplexx wir hinterlassen unsere Identität in unseren digital Devices, auch wenn wir sie entsorgen. #ownyourdata #trackingourlives (twitter.com/_/status/532584140806586368)
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GWG snarfed, I hope to have some stuff updated on Sunday, by the way.
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snarfed GWG: great!
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GWG snarfed, you going to make an appearance?
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snarfed GWG: maybe! irc at least if not video, depending on the baby
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snarfed i'll rsvp
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GWG Even if not the whole day...
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GWG I am excited about it as an excuse to devote time solely to IWC
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snarfed totally!
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kylewm have mini-snarfed RSVP too!
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snarfed ahahaha
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snarfed indiebaby
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GWG snarfed, have you bought the child a domain?
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snarfed she does have brookebarrett.org , but no h-card yet
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snarfed (i don't plan to make one anytime soon :P)
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GWG Oh, yes, you did tell us that
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GWG I need to update my list of things I am planning.
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aaronpk oo new superfeedr design looks great! https://superfeedr.com/
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@voxpelli @superfeedr Oh, you might want to set a fixed size on the avatar of the WebMentions: http://blog.superfeedr.com/new-design/ Sorry for lack of default CSS :P (twitter.com/_/status/532588736526426112)
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@awoods RT @t: I #ChooseIndependent with #Firefox (Happy 10th #fx10!) AND my #indieweb site. You should too: https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started (ttk.me t4Z51) (twitter.com/_/status/532589344272683008)
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@awoods @geekgirlweb heh. I'm only half kidding. I do want something to pull data off the cloud. Thinking of #indieweb and decentralization. (twitter.com/_/status/532590046067830785)
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gRegor` Ooh, just experienced Bridgy Publish converting <em> to _. Nice.
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gRegor` Guessing it does asterisks for <strong> too?
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kylewm gRegor`: credit goes to aaronsw
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@voxpelli @superfeedr True, that's a tricky dance between me and @schnarfed – might be connected to this issue https://github.com/voxpelli/webpage-webmentions/issues/10 (twitter.com/_/status/532590508686983168)
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kylewm <strong> would go to ** because Markdown
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/t/532165722299203584/532589344272683008 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/532165722299203584/14256894 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started (webmention)
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gRegor` Ah, right.
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@TheRealDod RT @t: I #ChooseIndependent with #Firefox (Happy 10th #fx10!) AND my #indieweb site. You should too: https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started (ttk.me t4Z51) (twitter.com/_/status/532596109059686400)
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david.shanske.com edited /User:David.shanske.com (+412) (view diff)
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GWG There
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GWG Now I just have to figure out how to do what I said
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kylewm2/532583221666406400/11628 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/vouch (webmention)
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@EscotRodrigues RT @erichansander: Fun weekend project: containerize #withknown using #Docker - done! @withknown @indiewebcamp https://github.com/ehdr/docker-known http… (twitter.com/_/status/532598899849306112)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/532165722299203584/39007560 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/t/532165722299203584/532596109059686400 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started (webmention)
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
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aaronpk good morning!
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david.shanske.com created /SmugMug (+435) "Created page with "<dfn>SmugMug</dfn> is a paid service for hosting photos. Features include folders, galleries, metadata, options to share to social networks, and options to seamlessly send phot..."" (view diff)
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@jbravo RT @erichansander: Fun weekend project: containerize #withknown using #Docker - done! @withknown @indiewebcamp https://github.com/ehdr/docker-known http… (twitter.com/_/status/532604848492253184)
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gRegor` Howdy, tantek
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tantek hello gRegor`
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gregorlove.com edited /podcast (+113) "dfn" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /podcast (+40) "See Also" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /video (-24) ""no indieweb" to "few indieweb"" (view diff)
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@DigiRightsIL RT @t: I #ChooseIndependent with #Firefox (Happy 10th #fx10!) AND my #indieweb site. You should too: https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started (ttk.me t4Z51) (twitter.com/_/status/532620135010271234)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/t/532165722299203584/532620135010271234 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started (webmention)
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KartikPrabhu yo
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cweiske too bad I can't +1 every day on https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/issues/53
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kylewm cweiske: send a pull request?
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cweiske I don't do python
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cweiske except on my satellite receiver, I have to say
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kylewm it's Ruby, but probably same difference?
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cweiske never wrote ruby before :)
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kylewm how about changing the mediawiki plugin?
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aaronpk okay okay okay :)
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cweiske this would be once incentive less for aaronpk to implement federation in indieauth.com :)
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aaronpk i am like 80% done with it, now the hard part is figuring out what the reason was I stopped
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aaronpk cweiske: lol true
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tantek.com edited /podcast (+1018) "add Why, How, IndieWeb Examples (any so far?), Distribution, Huffduffer" (view diff)
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kylewm tantek: there is an example! i'll post it
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tantek thank you
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+1) "next IWC is online" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /podcast (+261) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add benwerd" (view diff)
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tantek !tell bear I don't understand your point about "** Replies and mentions" - are those *others'* replies and mentions *to your articles?* or did you mean replies and mentions that *you* publish? https://indiewebcamp.com/own_your_data#Bear
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek !tell aaronpk how long have you been exclusively posting notes (@-replies, etc.) to your own site instead of Twitter? (add yourself! https://indiewebcamp.com/own_your_data#IndieWeb_Examples ) Or do you still occassionally post a note directly to Twitter not using your own site?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek !tell benwerd how long have you been exclusively posting notes (@-replies, etc.) to your own site instead of Twitter? (add yourself! https://indiewebcamp.com/own_your_data#IndieWeb_Examples ) Or do you still occassionally post a note directly to Twitter not using your own site?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com created /server-sent_events (+471) "stub with dfn, see also, why, spec" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /server-sent_events (+86) "add link to MDN article" (view diff)
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kylewm aaronpk: can you not do websockets within php?
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aaronpk you can in PHP, but I think you can't when PHP is behind a web server like apache or nginx
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kylewm (this is continuing the discussion of implementing realtime comments with server-sent events)
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 21 minutes ago: how long have you been exclusively posting notes (@-replies, etc.) to your own site instead of Twitter? (add yourself! https://indiewebcamp.com/own_your_data#IndieWeb_Examples ) Or do you still occassionally post a note directly to Twitter not using your own site?
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aaronpk like here is an exmaple of a PHP server that does websockets. but it's running as its own server http://socketo.me/docs/hello-world
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tantek.com created /not_supported_in_IE (+268) "stub with dfn, see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /server-sent_events (+172) "Not Supported in IE" (view diff)
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aaronpk so in order for me to use that on p3k I would have to run a separate PHP server
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kylewm gotcha
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kylewm I guess I'm wondering what happens if 5+ people have your site open all at once, wouldn't that lock down all the available server threads?
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kylewm with the server-sent events, that is
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aaronpk yeah, will probably need to up the max number of threads
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bear @tantek replies and mentions to my articles
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Loqi bear: tantek left you a message 25 minutes ago: I don't understand your point about "** Replies and mentions" - are those *others'* replies and mentions *to your articles?* or did you mean replies and mentions that *you* publish? https://indiewebcamp.com/own_your_data#Bear
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aaronpk er, "worker connections"?
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bear to me a reply to someone-else's post is just an article
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tantek is confused
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bear sorry - I tend to do that
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bear I just post articles - then add to the bottom of an article any incoming webmention
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tantek it's ok, I'm still behind on distinguishing "reply" vs. "comment" :(
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bear I, right now, am viewing reply and comment as the same thing
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tantek bear - right, that's my fault for originally conflating them in the wiki when they actually have a different meaning (slightly) in practice
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tantek reply is on your own site
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bear ah
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bear then I only do replies right now
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tantek comment is something you post on someone else's site, or that you syndicate from your site (as a reply) to their site
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bear and I let webmention handle the comment part
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tantek started from Twitter's giving every @-reply its own permalink
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bear but I get the point, I need to mark that an article is in-reply-to
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@kylewm2 @TheChangelog Sure! I follow a lot of people in the #indieweb community that are big PHP users, thought they would like it :) (twitter.com/_/status/532664611376758785)
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bear and i'm currently not doing that
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bear.im edited /own_your_data (+33) "cleared up some points" (view diff)
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bear.im edited /own_your_data (+1) "/* Bear */" (view diff)
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snarfed well aaronpk, some instagram progress, i can *like* programmatically now
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snarfed (used to 400)
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bear.im edited /own_your_data (+78) "add note about needing in-reply-to" (view diff)
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tantek What is Instagram?
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Loqi Instagram is a popular image hosting silo most well known for square photos that have been processed with an image filter http://indiewebcamp.com/Instagram
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aaronpk snarfed: ooh nice
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tantek.com edited /Instagram (+206) "/* API */ subheads" (view diff)
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tantek note that the most recent IG app update has a *UI* for updating the *caption* and the *location* of a photo
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aaronpk oh!!
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tantek so you can now go back and edit the typos you made when posting a photo
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aaronpk i never update my apps. maybe I should do that more often.
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tantek *OR* presumably *add* a caption after you've uploaded a photo
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aaronpk i wonder if they updated their push API to notify connected apps about updates
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tantek aaronpk: could you create a short subsection about their "push API" here? http://indiewebcamp.com/Instagram#API
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@davidpeach1 @ Lots of little changes to how I write notes / replies. Bit more streamlined in WordPress now. Will share! #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/532670702944399361)
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snarfed aaronpk: still can't comment. authing with scope=comments works, but the API call still 400s. ah well
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tantek.com edited /Instagram (+114) "/* API */ Cannot Comment" (view diff)
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snarfed tantek: re the wiki edit, it only really relates to a discussion aaronpk and i had a while ago. instagram's commenting API does work, you just need to apply to get whitelisted
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snarfed http://instagram.com/developer/endpoints/comments/#post_media_comments
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snarfed i'm happy to revise, but i'd just be repeating instagram's docs, so personally i'd probably just revert
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tantek snarfed, I guess I saw some value in capturing real world experience with their API vs. what docs claim
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snarfed tantek: sure! understood. in this case, aaronpk saw a doc change that we thought implied a difference, but we were wrong. the docs do (still) match the API
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tantek snarfed, how long ago did you and aaronpk apply to get whitelisted?
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tantek and presumably you are not yet whitelisted?
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snarfed i'm not sure i ever did
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tantek.com edited /Instagram (+195) "/* Cannot Comment */ cite IG docs" (view diff)
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tantek oh ok
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snarfed since i don't satisfy their req'ts: http://instagram.com/developer/endpoints/comments/#post_media_comments
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tantek actually reads the link he cited
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snarfed lol
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tantek snarfed, bummer for you: "The comment cannot consist of all capital letters."
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tantek no seriously, what aspect do you not satisfy?
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snarfed ?
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snarfed uh, read the bullet points under "This endpoint is restricted to the following use cases:"
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tantek "A business providing customer service to members of the Instagram Community by interacting through comments." <-- sounds Bridgyish
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tantek Bridgy provides a service. to customers
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tantek interacting through comments!
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snarfed "providing customer service…by interacting through comments"
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tantek wait - do we need Bridgy "pro" for it to be a business?
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snarfed nice try though!
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tantek wants to sign up for Bridgy pro
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snarfed that part i doubt matters
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snarfed heh
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snarfed but i kinda try to avoid drawing attention to bridgy from humans by e.g. applying for whitelisting unless the reward outweighs the risk
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snarfed i think aaronpk did apply
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snarfed and maybe never heard back
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tantek seems prudent
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tantek.com edited /Instagram (+143) "/* Cannot Comment */ whitelisting restrictive" (view diff)
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kylewm was aaronpk's only use-case for commenting via the api was to add a post permalink/citation?
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tantek now that they allow editing of comments in the UI - perhaps that's possible to via the API
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tantek s/to via/too via
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Loqi tantek meant to say: now that they allow editing of comments in the UI - perhaps that's possible too via the API
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kylewm snarfed: did you try commenting on your own photo or on someone else's?
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snarfed kylewm: mine this time
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snarfed response body: {"meta":{"error_type":"APIError","code":400,"error_message":"This client ID is not permitted to POST comments. For more info, please refer to our developer site at http:\/\/instagram.com\/developer\/endpoints\/comments."}}
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snarfed kylewm: iiuc, yes. it was for an earlier ownyourgram design
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snarfed (er sorry. re aaronpk's use case)
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tantek I'm interested in Instagram as a /reader UI example
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tantek of all the different silo stream reading experiences, Instagram's feels the "calmest" and least disruptive
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tantek personal opinion of course
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tantek in particular the IG iOS app (though I presume the Android app has similar UX)
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andicascadesf Hey guys. I’d really love to lead a 30 day blogging challenge for IndieWebCamp. We could come up with a list of writing prompts and encourage people to develop a habit of blogging daily.
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Loqi andicascadesf: tantek left you a message 3 weeks, 2 days ago: hope you can make it this Wednesday evening @MozSF! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-02-homebrew-website-club
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tantek lol
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andicascadesf @tantek @kevinMarkx_ What do you think?
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andicascadesf awww
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tantek andicascadesf: I'd say per our /selfdogfood principle, have you blogged within the past 30 days on your own personal site?
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andicascadesf I’m working on it.
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tantek i.e. challenged yourself to write before challenging others to do so
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andicascadesf I want to challenge myself with others
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andicascadesf “let’s do this together"
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tantek maybe start by going first?
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tantek set an example
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andicascadesf I started yesterday.
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andicascadesf Good point.
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tantek great! URL?
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tantek (i mean to yesterday's blog post)
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andicascadesf It’s not ready to announce, but this is the site. http://thoughtcards.com/hello-world/
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andicascadesf also I have been regularly blogging for 5 years at http://www.iamajukebox.com
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andicascadesf but it’s more of a personal blog so I have not shared it with the world.
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tantek interesting. do you have a separate professional but still specific to you blog that you do share?
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andicascadesf I’m still trying to figure out the divider between professional and personal.
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andicascadesf Most of my blogging is personal, but a few companies have been requesting for me to write a blog post on their site about starting a design community, etc.
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bear andicascadesf - a good staring point is to add yourself to the IRC-people and then explore the WordPress page
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bear what is irc-people
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Loqi http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC_People
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bear what is wordpress
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Loqi WordPress is an open source blog software as well as a blog hosting service http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress
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andicascadesf setting that up right now.
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bear andicascadesf++
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Loqi andicascadesf has 1 karma
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tantek andicascadesf++ for encouraging everyone to blog daily on their own personal site
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Loqi andicascadesf has 2 karma
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andicascadesf Thanks guys!
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andicascadesf We all boost each other up.
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