#indiewebcamp 2014-11-16

2014-11-16 UTC
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@TheRealDod @gywst I now have an #IndieWebcamp node at https://dubiousdod.org/indie/ (this is where I’m tweeting from) (twitter.com/_/status/533771775470235648)
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tantek.com edited /2014/Online/Guest_List (+520) "RSVP, note missing part of the day" (view diff)
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GWG I guess I'll have to pick up the slack
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tantek GWG :)
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GWG tantek: Any advice for ben_thatmustbeme and myself on keeping an IWC moving along?
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tantek GWG, clone the intro session from a previous IWC, and see about adapting it for this medium
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tantek e.g. http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Introductions
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme was there in Cambridge for that particular delivery of the intro session, so he should be familiar with how that went, and may have some opinions about adapting it for Online.
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GWG Well, I was at two IWCs as well.
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tantek !tell bret are you doing HWC in Portland? Looks like both aaronpk and dietrich are unable to host or attend - this week - want to pick a location to host? http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-11-19-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG tantek: I need to write up an RSVP for that
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tantek GWG - yes you were. However the intro session has continued to evolve after that. At IWC UK, then at IWC Cambridge.
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bret Tantek, I have been on somewhat of a meetup hiatus. Last quarter of school is wrecking me. I don't think I can host until after the end of the quarter.
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Loqi bret: tantek left you a message 2 minutes ago: are you doing HWC in Portland? Looks like both aaronpk and dietrich are unable to host or attend - this week - want to pick a location to host? http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-11-19-homebrew-website-club
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GWG tantek: I'll be happy to host an HWC in New York City.
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GWG Regrettably, I don't think anyone from NYC is coming
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tantek GWG - just need to find one more person to co-host with and you can do it.
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GWG tantek: If you ever hear of any.
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tantek GWG - up to your initiative
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tantek perhaps check with / contact other participants of past IWC NYC events for starters
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GWG I was hoping a future IWC NYC would attract more newcomers if we had more notice.
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tantek focus on the next immediate thing, not something in the more distant future. In this case, instead of hope far off, act on what you can do for a HWC this week.
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GWG tantek: Show up
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tantek exactly
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GWG Slow night
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kylewm GWG: still looking at facepiles?
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GWG kylewm: Yes. And comment presentation. I completely redesigned the way I was doing it.
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GWG kylewm: I keep seeing your face
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snarfed shades of sixth sense
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snarfed "i see avatar people!"
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GWG snarfed: I've been deep into the WordPress comments code
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sysfu Hi all. I'm getting started setting up a new blog. I'm looking for something minimalist, ideally does not require database, prefer python over PHP, and indieweb fiendly. Any suggestions?
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sysfu I'm looking at PyBloxsom at the moment.
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GWG Hello, sysfu.
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sysfu Howdy.
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sysfu Sorr, bounced my local tor relay node and disconnected my IRC bouncer
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GWG sysfu: There are python users here. Not sure if any of them are around.
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sysfu OK, thanks. I'll check back in later, going to recompile my Tor relay to use LibreSSL instead of OpenSSL.
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sysfu ...which will take down my IRC connection...
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sysfu So be back in a few hours
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kylewm man pyblosxom has been around a long time
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snarfed oh man, pyblosxom. i used that a while back
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kylewm https://snarfed.org/2006-08-23_virtual_housewarming
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kylewm it's interesting, seems like it's been a small but continuously active project for >10 years
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kylewm first commit was on my 20th birthday :)
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snarfed wow, yeah
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snarfed https://snarfed.org/?s=pyblosxom
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bear used to be a committer for pybloxsom back in the day
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snarfed bear++
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Loqi bear has 48 karma
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bear was introduced to it by my old boss Ted Leung
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Loqi [mention] https://dubiousdod.org/indie/2014/11/bottom-line-in-a-few-hours-there-s-an-indiewebcamp linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Online (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://dubiousdod.org/indie/2014/11/bottom-line-in-a-few-hours-there-s-an-indiewebcamp linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://dubiousdod.org/indie/2014/11/bottom-line-in-a-few-hours-there-s-an-indiewebcamp linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/getting_started (webmention)
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@TheRealDod @ia42 Bottom line: in a few hours there’s an #IndieWebCamp https://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Online . Want to attend? https://dubiousdod.org/indie/2014/11/bottom-line-in-a-few-hours-there-s-an-indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/533917834519511040)
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Loqi [mention] https://dubiousdod.org/indie/2014/11/bottom-line-in-a-few-hours-there-s-an-indiewebcamp linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Online (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://dubiousdod.org/indie/2014/11/bottom-line-in-a-few-hours-there-s-an-indiewebcamp linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://dubiousdod.org/indie/2014/11/bottom-line-in-a-few-hours-there-s-an-indiewebcamp linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/getting_started (webmention)
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@DigiRightsIL 2014/Online - IndieWebCamp starts in a few hours, log on and share the knowledge! https://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Online (twitter.com/_/status/533918647384018945)
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@gywst RT @TheRealDod: This Sunday there's an online #IndieWebCamp https://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Online and I'm "going" https://zzzen.com/hiddenid/?p=74 Join us. (twitter.com/_/status/533922741825454080)
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notizblog.org edited /2014/Online/Guest_List (+284) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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@iwebthings new ‘webmentions’ tool http://dailywebthing.com/linkport/archives/011906.shtml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter (twitter.com/_/status/533959046038962178)
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@TheRealDod RT @DigiRightsIL: 2014/Online - IndieWebCamp starts in a few hours, log on and share the knowledge! https://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Online (twitter.com/_/status/533970581662597121)
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@ekes @jerbob92 @diekatja @dcberlin Ah. Actually following the #indieweb discussion at the moment #dcb14 (twitter.com/_/status/533973516685959168)
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GWG Good morning
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leadballhummingb morning
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ben_thatmust morning GWG
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GWG How did you get from leadballhummingb to ben_thatmust?
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ben_thatmust leadballhummingbird was an old username
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GWG Oh
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ben_thatmust it jumps back if I get disconnected
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GWG ben_thatmust: Anything we need to discuss before 11?
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ben_thatmust also dissolve
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ben_thatmust i don't think so
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ben_thatmust i may cut out on the hack session a little early
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ben_thatmust to make dinner
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GWG ben_thatmust: Dinner is good. I may have to step away for 10 minutes. They are delivering a new dryer. Old one exploded. Sometime between 9:45 and 12:45
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GWG pfefferle: That reminds me. I sent over a Pull Request. Hopefully it is an improvement over the last one...which I learned from.
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pfefferle GWG I have a look at it later at the indiewebcamp :)
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pfefferle have to do some things before
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pfefferle see you later
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GWG pfefferle: Looking forward to it.
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thedod kylewm, wm_receiver doesn't find my posts (probably bc mounted with prefix) https://zerobin.net/?e7a20d0bf5769b67#0hy60NeuomePrRftbkhy1jhhcY2P/g26MFt0Nz5+8Po=
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thedod scratches head
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thedod and *I* thought there were no mentions because nobody liked me :)
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thedod found it \o/
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thedod https://github.com/kylewm/redwind/blob/master/redwind/plugins/wm_receiver.py#L215
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thedod parsed_url.path :)
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thedod Dinner, then I fix it
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GWG Better go get cleaned up for IWC Online.
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david.shanske.com edited /2014/Online/Guest_List (+87) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /2014/Online/Guest_List (+57) "/* IndieWebCamp Online 2014 */" (view diff)
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thedod kylewm: hope not too ugly https://dubiousdod.org/indie/2014/11/ugly-way-to-fix-mentions-but-seems-to-work-diff-diff
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thedod that's what I'm about to commit unless a problem
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thedod s/a problem/kylewm or someone has a better idea/
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Loqi thedod meant to say: that's what I'm about to commit unless kylewm or someone has a better idea
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@jkphl Great #bono14 outcome: "@textformer: Here are the slides for my session »The Indie Web Movement« - http://textformer.de/slides/dcb14/ #dcb14" #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/534000767292948480)
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ben_thatmust i'm just about set up
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GWG ben_thatmust: Working on it here. Hangouts is giving me an issue for some reason.
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GWG Doing a quick restart
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ben_thatmust okay
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ben_thatmust you going on as the IWC account i'm assuming
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thedod I'm still not sure how the GUI of this works, but it's google, so I guess they know better what's friendly :)
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ben_thatmust GWG, want me to try starting it?
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GWG We just tested this last week too
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ben_thatmust okay, I'll just try starting it
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GWG Oh, well. Live demos.
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GWG I'm loading it up now.
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aaronpk good morning!
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GWG It is insisting I don't have a camera.
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ben_thatmust hello
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ben_thatmust GWG< i tried starting it
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ben_thatmust i think we are both on via the IWC account
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ben_thatmust i heard you for a second
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aaronpk is there a hangout URL posted somewhere?
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GWG Yes. In the notes
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GWG ben_thatmust: You be the IWC account then
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aaronpk of course
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: I think you may need to invite people
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thedod I think I'm there (url ends with 88k)
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aaronpk i'm having trouble getting connected *not* as indiewebcamp
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thedod I press play and see a still
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aaronpk it keeps auto-changing me to the indiewebcamp user
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thedod and no gui to setup my audio/video
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GWG aaronpk: I'll run the thing
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aaronpk i'm just trying to figure out how I can connect as my own google account
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thedod aaronpk, private/incognito browser :)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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aaronpk but I have to log in to google!
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ben_thatmust_ https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYfFm-vNF3f2o8fZiS8tUaddoHAeGQgEsGDjisjknv2azBobIQ
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kylewm good morning :) I think I'm there too, it says "This live broadcast will begin soon"?
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thedod from incognito, login as aaron
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ben_thatmust_ that link should join the actual hangout
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aaronpk but my google account is listed as a manager on the indiewebcamp page so it'll just put me in the same boat
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thedod is lost in all this identity soup :)
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aaronpk google's identity soup is thick
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aaronpk ben_thatmust_: cool that link worked
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thedod bloody hell. need to install plugin :)
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thedod brb
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rascul chromium can't find my mic :(
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GWG https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sP4k2nPu7w
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GWG Welcome to IndiewebCamp Online 2014.
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GWG I will be your narrator today
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GWG Video will be available after the fact and live
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GWG We've called upon aaronpk to recount the ancient days of Indiewebcamp
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GWG ben_thatmustbe gave a brief overview
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GWG Now, he is showing his site, benthatmustbe.me
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GWG He supports login with Indieauth.
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GWG And can verify using silos or the insecure Google Authenticator.
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GWG Now that he has authenticated, he has editing options....
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ben_thatmust GWG what is the page you are working off for the schedule?
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ben_thatmust GWG is showing off his site, displaying back end in Wordpress
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ben_thatmust has a project in mind already for his site
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ben_thatmust bringing h-cards in to his site and storing them commonly
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ben_thatmust John Reinhardt talks about his new experience in the indieweb
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ben_thatmust coming from a world where everything is secrective and anonymous, so this is quite a change for him
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ben_thatmust https://dubios.dod.org/indie
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GWG https://dubiousdod.org/indie/
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GWG The . is not needed.
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ben_thatmust Aaron Parecki shows off his site
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ben_thatmust basics of posting notes, and the usual but has a page /metrics that keeps track of information about himself
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ben_thatmust he has 2 ways to enter data in to the site
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ben_thatmust one that he can enter data free form but also has an app called teacup that he can use from his watch
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ben_thatmust teacup.p3k.io
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ben_thatmust has been working on finishing the pebble app so that anyone else can use it
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ben_thatmust also shows off indiewebcat.com, Dora's site
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ben_thatmust is lacking syndicate out posts after the fact
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GWG And Dora just ate some cat food.
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ben_thatmust Matthias from germany does not have much to show of as he is also part of the wordpress outreach club
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ben_thatmust he is working on webmention plugin
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ben_thatmust no one in germany is using the indieweb yet, sadly (besides him)
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ben_thatmust notizblog.org
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aaronpk we had several people get a pretty good start when I was doing the workshop in Nürnberg a couple weeks ago!
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aaronpk here's a thread of people who were able to send a webmention during the workshop https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/10/18/1/bordernone
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GWG https://github.com/dshanske/mf2_bootstrap
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ben_thatmust GWG you want ot take over
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ben_thatmust i have to step away for a second
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pfefferle https://wordpress.org/plugins/indieauth/
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tantek catches up on logs
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Loqi [mention] https://david.shanske.com/notes/2014/11/16/attending-indiewebcamp-2014-online/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Online (webmention)
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@dshanske Today I am attending IndieWebCamp 2014 Online, of which I am a co-organizer. (twitter.com/_/status/534025049733599232)
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tantek aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/10/18/1/bordernone is super cool - yet where are the people icons?
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ben_thatmust GWG, what is the page for that further breakdown of the schudule you are using?
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aaronpk good question! I thought there were some before. maybe people have sent updated webmentions
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aaronpk ben_thatmust: I think he's looking at this http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Introductions
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kylewm wifi problems :(
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ben_thatmust collaborativeinter.net
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GWG Sessions Proposals begin now
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thedod security?
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david.shanske.com edited /2014/Online/Sessions (+151) "/* Have */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /2014/Online/Sessions (-14) "/* Security */" (view diff)
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aaronpk messaging!
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aaronpk along with organizing contacts lists
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tantek aaronpk - is organizing contacts lists a reprise of the session from IWC 2014 PDX?
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tantek still doesn't get what is "organizing contacts lists" besides just a list of URLs
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tantek (and maybe caching h-card info from those URLs)
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tantek per nicknames cache
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aaronpk i think gwg mentioned that
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tantek what is a nicknames cache?
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Loqi A nicknames cache is a way indieweb sites store information about people to improve the user experience of the site owner referring, mention, and/or linking to those people http://indiewebcamp.com/nicknames-cache
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aaronpk in the context of wordpress
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aaronpk thedod suggested that since there are already a lot of chat standards and work being done there, better to try to find a way to embed one of those in the indieweb context rather than invent a new messaging mechanism
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david.shanske.com edited /2014/Online/Sessions (+211) "/* Have */" (view diff)
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tantek ooh I like the Have / Want split! well done.
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tantek what is indie messaging?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "indie messaging" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=indie+messaging
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GWG http://indiewebcamp.com/messaging
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tantek.com created /indie_messaging (+32) "r" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /2014/Online/Sessions (-12) "/* Have */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2014/Online/Sessions (+1) "/* Have */ '" (view diff)
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ben_thatmust computer completely frozen
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GWG ben_thatmust: Sorry. I'll keep the thing going
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tantek.com edited /2014/Online/Sessions (+8) "linky linky" (view diff)
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ben_thatmust rebooting
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tantek needs to run out to get coffee. Literally.
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aaronpk coffee is an important part of any indiewebcamp. even the online ones.
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david.shanske.com edited /2014/Online/Sessions (+219) "/* Have */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/Online/Sessions (+2) "fix '" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/Online/Sessions (+0) "/* MicroPub */ not camel case" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /2014/Online/Sessions (+131) "/* Have */" (view diff)
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aaronpk what is oembed?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "oembed" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=oembed
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aaronpk huh, i'm surprised there's no page
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kylewm me too
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tantek aaronpk - because it's an old way of doing things?
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david.shanske.com edited /2014/Online/Sessions (+41) (view diff)
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GWG tantek: It does make for a decent fallback though
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tantek what's the difference between whitelisting a list of oembed providers (which everyone who supports it ends up doing), and whitelisting a list of domain-based embedding conversions in your auto-linker code?
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tantek GWG - not worth the maintenance IMO
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aaronpk I support oembed for soundcloud embeds, but that's more because that's the only way they do it
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tantek IMO it's also the wrong philosophy
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tantek aaronpk - right, for legacy
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tantek if you want to provide a preview for something, link-preview has thoughts on that
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aaronpk yeah. and actually the way it's gone it's essentially a provider-specific thing
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tantek hence, a failure as a standard
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GWG The sessions are now up on the wiki
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aaronpk dropping off the hangout momentarily
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GWG 4 Sessions have been proposed.
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tantek certainly it's not worth *publishing* oembed
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GWG tantek: That I will agree with.
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aaronpk this is why we need a wiki page for it :)
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tantek consuming it for display of legacy silos - perhaps for such legacy silos you care about
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tantek but then, you can always write your own per-legacy-silo auto-embed code instead
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tantek which can be less work that supporting oembed
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GWG tantek: I always get things up as quickly as possible, then return to improve them
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tantek aaronpk: briefly mentioned here: http://indiewebcamp.com/link-preview#prior_link_preview_standards
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tantek GWG, "oembed" by no means is "as quickly as possible"
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GWG First session begins in 4 minutes...Security.
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tantek auto-linking code tends to be
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GWG tantek: It is when WordPress has it built in.
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tantek publishing or consuming?
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GWG Consuming
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tantek anyway the point is, if you want to talk about "oembed" rather than talk about oembed which is *plumbing* talk about the larger user-centric context which is /link-preview.
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GWG I want to talk about presentation
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GWG I've been studying silos and other Indiewebcamp sites for design thoughts.
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GWG We do have a security page. http://indiewebcamp.com/security
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GWG thedod is proposing review of security in Indiewebcamp
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GWG Reviewing a project called HiddenID
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ben_thatmust hidden-id.github.io
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ben_thatmust https://zzzen.com/hieendid
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GWG Hidden ID is a smiley with sunglasses.
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GWG He is proposing a way to identify people with some level of anonymity, allowing some level of trust to be built.
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GWG For this to work, Tor is necessary.
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ben_thatmust https://zzzen.com/hiddenid/
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GWG Back to Security.
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GWG Should people be able to put rel= links into the wiki.
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aaronpk did anybody say if rel=me could go on user pages?
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GWG It can apparently go into all pages, according to thedod?
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GWG I suggested limit to user pages
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MattSchutte Guys, I'm going to have to leave. Thanks for letting me sit in.
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kylewm thanks for joining MattSchutte :)
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme is trying to 'tantek' this.
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kylewm this is frustrating
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kylewm should we pick this conversation up when thedod has his mic working?
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rascul my dog stopped by for a visit :)
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david.shanske.com edited /Main_Page (+153) (view diff)
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GWG Just trying the rel=me experiment
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GWG Have just confirmed I can put a rel into the wiki
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GWG https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention/issues/35
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thedod_ back
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thedod_ hi
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GWG thedod_: I think we have audio for you?
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thedod_ compiled xchat :)
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pfefferle GWG :)
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GWG pfefferle: You knew I was going to do that.
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pfefferle GWG yep
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tantek let's ask the selfdogfood question re: HiddenID
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tantek thedod: are you supporting HiddenID on your own primary personal website?
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thedod_ notorious: https://zzzen.com/hiddenid/?p=36
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thedod_ user side reputation management
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tantek aaronpk, another criticism of OEmbed (in case you want to start a wiki page on it) - it fails the #selfdogfood test. None of its creators are running it, publishing or consuming, on their own primary personal web sites.
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pfefferle tantek I do :)
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tantek as to why there isn't an OEmbed wiki page, no one has cared about it enough to start one, and as legacy tech, I was fine to leave it as single bullet point on /link-preview.
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tantek pfefferle: the creators are listed here http://oembed.com/#section6 - none of them are supporting it on their primary personal websites
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pfefferle tantek but these are companies… what do you mean by ”žpersonal“?
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aaronpk to pass the selfdogfood test, the creators would at least have to consume oembed
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tantek (and yes I just double checked: iamcal.com, immike.net (domain offline but still linked from his twitter @mjmalone), leahculver.com, rcrowley.org )
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tantek pfefferle: no these are humans
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tantek http://oembed.com/#section6
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tantek what part of Cal Henderson, Mike Malone, Leah Culver, Richard Crowley looks like "companies" to you pfefferle? where did you get the idea "these are companies" ?!?
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pfefferle tantek oh you meant the authors… the list is so small so I looked at the providers… sorry :)
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GWG thedod: Please add more of your notes to the Security Session section in the wiki.
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tantek pfefferle: I said "None of its creators are running it, publishing or consuming, on their own primary personal web sites." Every word there counts.
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tantek *creators*
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pfefferle tantek I am no native speaker so exuse some misunderstandings...
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tantek pfefferle: no problem. would appreciate your review of this too then, recently updated: http://indiewebcamp.com/selfdogfood#key_components
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tantek pfefferle: in general in indiewebcamp the bias is towards people, indidividuals, independents, not companies.
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tantek or rather people *before* companies
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david.shanske.com edited /2014/Online/Sessions (-1) "/* Messaging */" (view diff)
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GWG http://indiewebcamp.com/messaging
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pfefferle tantek ok, got you! will also have a look at the selfdogfood page later...
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tantek pfefferle: thank you - really appreciated. "selfdogfood" is probably one of the most important /principles of indiewebcamp and thus very much needs to be internationally understandable.
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tantek would anyone be interested in a session later on "wikifying"?
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thedod_ +1 wikifying
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tantek that is - general how to / Q&A about how to best add things to the wiki, incrementally, new pages, new sections, etc.?
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pfefferle tantek I understand and share your point depending the indieweb… but I think all authors/creators worked on an implementation of OEmbed into their plattform like pownce, flickr or youtube…
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tantek pfefferle: that's the difference between *dogfood* and *selfdogfood*
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tantek if all you do is "work" on it, and make a "platform" for *others*, then you're only dogfooding.
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tantek not selfdogfooding
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rascul aaronpk i was pondering probably the same thing irt jabber
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GWG Discussing Messaging.
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rascul using domain for identity with a jabber server
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tantek pfefferle: in short, if you're not willing to support your creation on your own primary personal website, why should others support it on their primary personal websites?
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GWG Messaging as a 'private' message system. Real time messaging is likely best with interfacing with existing protocols.
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pfefferle tantek I totally agree from the indieweb perspective
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tantek.com edited /selfdogfood (+149) "stronger dfn" (view diff)
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GWG Ben is showing off his contacts dream as an aspect of messaging.
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GWG Lost signal.
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GWG Suggestion for a microformat markup that would mark a piece of information as not to be shared for logged in users.
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tantek negative mark indicators have not had much historical success
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tantek e.g. Yahoo tried a while ago with "do not index" markup for search
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tantek e.g. do not index this div
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tantek total failure
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aaronpk this is more about indicating who a post is shared with
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aaronpk there's some info here http://indiewebcamp.com/private_posts
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aaronpk example given was a google+ post, which indicates who a post is shared with
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tantek then where's the screenshot of a google+ post, which indicates who a post is shared with?
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aaronpk that's what i was asking for
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tantek perhaps add to http://indiewebcamp.com/private_posts#Silo_Examples
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aaronpk i don't use g+ really so i don't have a lot of examples off the top of my head
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tantek screenshots of existing (silo) examples for such use-cases should precede any questions/requests for "a microformat markup that would … "
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tantek design before plumbing
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aaronpk gah either chrome is being slow or all google JS just got 1085824x more bloated.
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aaronpk g+ and Inbox are super slow for me
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tantek I installed NoScript add-on in Firefox two days ago and am MUCH happier.
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tantek turns out for most of the web, you actually don't need their 12+ scripts per page
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tantek and it makes your browsing 10x faster at least
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tantek makes me think nearly no one who is using JS on their sites is bothering to profile how badly it is slowing down the UX
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david.shanske.com edited /private_posts (+20) (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /private_posts (+104) "/* Silo Examples */" (view diff)
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tantek out for a bit. be back in a couple of hours and hope to get on the live/video/chat thingie y'all have going
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tantek GWG, feel free to add "wikifying" as a "Want" session with me as an available facilitator and thedod as interested per above above
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mlncn NoScript++
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Loqi NoScript has 1 karma
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david.shanske.com edited /2014/Online/Sessions (+478) "/* Messaging */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /2014/Online/Sessions (+145) "/* Want */" (view diff)
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GWG http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Online/Sessions#Want I avoided referring to it as the 'mystic' art of tanteking.
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david.shanske.com edited /2014/Online/Sessions (+4) "/* Wikifying */" (view diff)
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Google%2B-20141116-105556.png
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Google%2B-20141116-105618.png
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Google%2B-20141116-105647.png
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Google%2B-20141116-105723.png
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/uploads/google%2Btag-remove-20141116-105929.png
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub#Creating_Objects
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rascul have some things to do, turning the camera off for a bit, but i'll have my bluetooth headphones on so i can still hear while i'm walking around the house
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GWG http://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub#Adding_Tags
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aaronpk remove[name]=1&remove[location]=1
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aaronpk remove[]=name&remove[]=location
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pfefferle sorry guys but I have to leave… perhaps I have the time to rejoin later today…
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kylewm Zakim who's making noise
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aaronpk kylewm++
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Loqi kylewm has 84 karma
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GWG pfefferle: Thanks for the approval on the pull request
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GWG Will have more for you.
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GWG pfefferle: Although I do want to know your thoughts about comment_class.
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GWG kylewm: I think it is thedod.
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GWG But I'm not sure
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GWG http://indiewebcamp.com/reply-context-examples
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GWG Indieweb Design
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thedod_ how about the way bootstrap does nedia-list as a reference? http://getbootstrap.com/components/#media-list
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GWG aaronpk: http://indiewebcamp.com/facepile Did you notice someone spelled your name off?
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ben_thatmust indiewebcat: proof that the internet is for cat pictures
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thedod_ https://d3js.org
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david.shanske.com edited /2014/Online (+14) "/* Schedule */" (view diff)
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GWG Schedule now updated, lunch break from :40-:15
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GWG Needed a break from my headphones
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aaronparecki.com edited /facepile (+199) "/* Aaron Parecki */ add examples and dates" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2014-aaronpk-facepile-example.png]]""
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GWG Do we want to stream the hacking or just the demos?
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aaronpk probably not worth recording the hacking
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GWG Trying to remember how to upload to the wiki. Don't think I've ever uploaded
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david.shanske.com edited /facepile (+58) (view diff)
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aaronpk you make a [[File:whatever.png]] link first then click it
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GWG Oh
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aaronpk or just visit /File:whatever.png
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GWG That works.
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thedod_ btw, should webmentioning the wiki work? what about the irc log?
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aaronpk you can right now, its hows up in IRC
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aaronpk shows up
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aaronpk we're talking about doing a JS embed thingy to show webmentions on event RSVPs for example
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thedod_ this could be a nice hack for today. is there API to get a page's mentions?
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aaronpk yep
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david.shanske.com edited /facepile (+38) "/* Twitter */" (view diff)
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aaronpk http://webmention.io/#show-all-mentions
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aaronpk e.g. http://webmention.io/api/mentions?target=http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-11-19-homebrew-website-club
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aaronpk (right now webmention.io isn't parsing out RSVPs separately, they just look like regular mentions)
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aaronpk maybe I could hack that up real quick
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david.shanske.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:Twitter-FacePile16NOV14.png]]""
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david.shanske.com edited /facepile (+0) "/* Twitter */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmust i'm thinking i may hack on getting private posts working
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thedod_ gets paranoid just tinking about the implications :)
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ben_thatmust oh, as for additional things on a micropub client, we might want to poll for a list of people to suggest for private mentions
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aaronpk oh yeah!
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david.shanske.com edited /Special:Log/upload () "uploaded a new version of "[[File:Twitter-FacePile16NOV14.png]]"" (view diff)
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ben_thatmust s/mentions/messages/
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Loqi ben_thatmust meant to say: oh, as for additional things on a micropub client, we might want to poll for a list of people to suggest for private messages
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pdurbin thedod_: that private wouldn't be private?
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thedod_ it's on a server. not at your house. doesn't require a warrant, physical access. yada yada
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david.shanske.com edited /facepile (+156) "/* Twitter */" (view diff)
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aaronpk that's out of scope, since where it's hosted has nothing to do with the protocol or user interface
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rascul what is the hangouts link? i lost it
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "the hangouts link? i lost it" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=the+hangouts+link%3F+i+lost+it
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thedod_ true. but maybe best practice should be only run it at home :)
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GWG rascul: We adjourned for lunch
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rascul oh ok
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thedod_ btw, in http://twister.net.co private messages are safe as houses
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ben_thatmust GWG: i can't figure out how you scheduled the hangouts as IWC
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GWG You want me to do it?
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ben_thatmust yeah
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GWG Under events.
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GWG https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/event/cgnc3d69oit7ru8h7rs33lhu998
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GWG For the final demos, another On Air Hangout at https://plus.google.com/b/117428517899860701753/events/clpal02gasf2t8mfg5kltuuhino
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thedod_ Found it (off topic) https://idoru.pl/posts/343652
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david.shanske.com edited /2014/Online (+231) "/* IndieWebCampOnline 2014 */" (view diff)
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thedod_ aaronpk, what's the API for a wiki page's mentions in json or something?
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aaronpk https://webmention.io/api/mentions?target=http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-11-19-homebrew-website-club
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thedod_ thanks
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kylewm hey y'all, I've gotta take off for today. have fun hackign, i'll look forward to seeing what you come up with!
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aaronpk sorry i took off my headphiones. feedbackwas probably me
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GWG kylewm: Any time
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ben_thatmust thedod_ i seem to have muted you again
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ben_thatmust i thought i could easily unmute
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ben_thatmust seems that is not the case
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GWG You could for me, I think
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GWG I'm continuing work on Semantic Comments, which is the rewrite of the Facepile feature using a much less intrusive design.
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ben_thatmust no, i can't
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ben_thatmust it won't let me unmute you
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/Online/Sessions (+25) "/* Micropub */ add link to session page" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/Online/Sessions (+0) "/* 2014/Online/Micropub Micropub */ gah wiki syntax" (view diff)
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aaronpk totally forgot about etherpad
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GWG Shoot
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Loqi [mention] https://dubiousdod.org/indie/2014/11/proposing-mentionfest-temp-name linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Online (webmention)
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aaronpk https://webmention.herokuapp.com/
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aaronparecki.com created /2014/Online/Micropub (+1405) "dump my notes from the morning session" (view diff)
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thedod_ aaronpk, got CORS problems with the wiki. See http://codepen.io/thedod/pen/jEOQRO (view debug console)
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aaronpk just use jsonp
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aaronpk http://codepen.io/anon/pen/OPJaGd
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/Online/Micropub (+205) (view diff)
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@anomalily @BarnabyWalters Hell yes I do! @aaronpk is coming too! Indiewebcamp Reykjavík perhaps? (twitter.com/_/status/534102523519713280)
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Loqi [mention] https://dubiousdod.org/indie/2014/11/here-s-a-skeleton-you-can-fork-codepen-io-thedod linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Online (webmention)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Micropub (+32) "update syndication query to use [] notation" (view diff)
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aaronpk thedod_: http://codepen.io/anon/pen/OPJaGd
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aaronpk very cool!
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tantek good afternoon #indiewebcamp online!
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barnabywalters afternoon — how’s IWC Online going?
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Loqi barnabywalters: jonnybarnes left you a message 6 days, 5 hours ago: whilst my site can send your site webmention replies that show up, your site isn't finding the author info from my post, however shrewdness does: https://shrewdness.waterpigs.co.uk/test/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fjonnybarnes.uk%2Fnotes%2F41
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rascul there's only four people left!
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rascul well, three and a cat ;)
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: indeed, shrewdness has a better implementation. I need to update Taproot to use the same code!
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barnabywalters is it indiewebcat?
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GWG barnabywalters: It is
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GWG We're all watching her.
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KartikPrabhu on the internet the cat watches you
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aaronpk a sleeping cat
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barnabywalters Kartikprabhu: on the indieweb, cats watch you
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barnabywalters resists urge to create indiewebrock.com or indiewebstickinsect.com
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ividyon Hello.
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GWG barnabywalters: How about Indiewebimaginaryfriend.com?
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KartikPrabhu hi ividyon
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barnabywalters GWG: what, like an AI which you pay to send you webmention comments? that’s either a bit creepy or an excellent webmention testing tool
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ividyon I've a question about Indie Web Movement. I've heard about the concept at DrupalCamp Berlin today, and I've been thinking about some kinda terrifying implications
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tantek welcome ividyon!
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barnabywalters greetings ividyon! welcome to #indiewebcamp
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GWG Terrifying?
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GWG Welcome though
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GWG Tell us your fears.
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tantek But first, do you have a personal website ividyon?
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ividyon Nope!
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tantek do you want a personal website ividyon?
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ividyon Let's say, Big Data is bad. Companies like Facebook and Twitter keep all your data forever, cache it, use it for advertisement, re-sell it etc.
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ividyon Now, this happens behind the scenes, and since the companies are big faceless globs of evil, and they collect all these tons of data, single individuals in them probably don't care about single posts you make.
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tantek not even forever, inevitably they die and take your data with the. per /site-deaths
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ividyon Let's say you wrote something embarassing and deleted it right away. Facebook etc. keep it, because that's how they roll, but at least they have the courtesy to hide it from your peers and close ones.
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KartikPrabhu one would hope
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ividyon Now, let's say the IWM gets into full gear and replaces current social networks. Suddenly, its not big faceless companies caching and storing all that data, it's.. everyone.
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tantek it's distributed
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ividyon And since you now have every one of your friends caching the shit you just said, with no way to delete it remotely other than asking kindly, your blunder is out there for eternity.
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KartikPrabhu ividyon: anything on the web can be crawled and cached and stored anyway
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tantek yay welcome to the internet, no take backs ;)
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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KartikPrabhu nothing to do with silos or indieweb
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aaronpk also see: http://indiewebcamp.com/deleted
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ividyon Yeah, but it "can be". By people with such vested interests, or on the off chance that you have a fellow nerd doing that kind of crawling around you.
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ividyon With IWM, it would always be.
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tantek what is IWM?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "IWM" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=IWM
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KartikPrabhu tantek: indieweb movement
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ividyon indie web movement... which is how the concept was presented to me
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ividyon sorry for using wrong terms :)
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KartikPrabhu ividyon: why do you think your data will always be cached or something?
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barnabywalters ividyon: well the indieweb is really “just” the web with extra bits added, so this is really a problem with publishing stuff on the web in general
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tantek ividyon it sounds like you're learning something about the internet, nothing unique about "web" nor "indie web".
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barnabywalters even if things are deleted from silos, people can (and do) take screenshots
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aaronpk not even unique to the internet! what happens if you mail a letter to someone!
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk++ good point
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Loqi aaronpk has 605 karma
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tantek I have netnews (NNTP) posts from the late 1980s that I thought were ephemeral that someone was archiving and now are fully searchable via Google Groups via their acquisition of Deja News
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aaronpk or pass a note to someone in class. even if you get the original back, you don't know if someone took a photo of it in the mean time
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tantek ividyon - your fear has nothing to do with indie web - and predates the web.
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KartikPrabhu i am sure people said the same about photocopying, photography, digital photography
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ividyon Nah. There's ALWAYS the scare of "your data never ever being deleted from the internet!!" and staying there forever, in regards to Facebook and what not. But in the end, it "stays forever" at Facebook's private corporate archives, and perhaps the occasional friend with interests in archiving data he gets. With Indie Web concepts - assuming theres eventually super popular, easy-to-use frameworks any
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ividyon layman would use - suddenly everybody would be participating in Big Data collection to 'own their own content', no?
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tantek anyway, the point is, it's pointless to worry about such things which have are outside the specific topic of #indiewebcamp
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tantek ividyon - nope, assume any public post anywhere could be internet archived forever
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KartikPrabhu ividyon: not really. I can already cache your twitter and facebook
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tantek nothing to do with FB or whatever
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tantek and nothing to do with "web" either, see above about NNTP
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KartikPrabhu what do you think indieweb adds to this?
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tantek ividyon - anyway - let's get back to being productive
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KartikPrabhu hmm multiple-questioning is bad, I'll let tantek take over
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tantek ividyon - do you want a personal website?
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ividyon Like, let's say I write something emotionally charged and wipe it 2 minutes later. Right now, I'm only in danger if I'm so unlucky that a friend views it within those 2 minutes, or I have a mysterious caching friend which is pretty unlikely right now. But with Indie Web, people would return home hours later and still be able to read it up, assuming their IW system fetched and saved that post for th
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ividyon em (and they have no generic deletion API).
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ividyon oh well!
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ividyon guess I'm the only one with those concerns because I regularly fuck up and write stupid shit on the internet :p
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tantek ividyon - no, everyone does, and then doesn't worry about it.
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aaronpk ividyon: we have documented how to "politely" handle deletes, which is what your last example is
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KartikPrabhu ividyon: indieweb users don't actively cache everything!
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/delete
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barnabywalters what is deletion?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "deletion" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=deletion
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aaronparecki.com created /deletion (+20) "r" (view diff)
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ividyon hm! well, let's hope that will be commonly implemented then, at least.
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tantek ividyon - much more likely your utterances on twitter will be cached/archived forever
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tantek since they send a feed to the Library of Congress
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barnabywalters also, bear in mind cases in which deletion is abused by people in positions of power
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barnabywalters e.g. harassers on twitter posting tweets, then deleting them (removing evidence) before moderation teams see them
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KartikPrabhu still dn't see how this is different from just the usual web
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ividyon Well. I guess everything is terrible!
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tantek KartikPrabhu: nor just internet per NNTP
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tantek ividyon - so let's get back to something productive
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tantek do you want a personal website?
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ividyon Let's see
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ividyon Eventually, yes! But blogging is such effort, so I'm not sure how much of indie web concepts I could apply. Just the basic stuff like following schema, using h-card etc would be neat though
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aaronpk who said "blogging"?
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aaronpk :D
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tantek what do you mean by blogging is such effort? do you use twitter?
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ividyon Occasionally
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tantek would you prefer to occasionally use your own website?
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ividyon Yes, I like the POSSE idea
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tantek ividyon - excellent!
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tantek let's get you setup on your own website to do that then
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ividyon Let's not right now. :P I just joined to kick up that topic of mine. I'm satisfied with the responses
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tantek do you have a domain? or do you want to just experiment with it first?
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ividyon Maybe I'll drop by again when I get around to caring about my own site. ;)
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ividyon Thank you very much though!
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tantek ividyon - if you're curious about a very easy to setup path to indieweb - try signing up on withknown.com
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tantek they have POSSE to Twitter built-in.
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tantek really easy to use, even/especially on mobile web.
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ividyon If I made a site, I'd try to build it on my own with Drupal. Perhaps by then there will be a contrib module for it
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ividyon for POSSE stuff, I Mean
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ividyon mean*
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tantek ividyon - sure - much respect for building your own with your preferred tools.
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tantek a lot of us operate that way and use and build a variety of differnet tools
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tantek hoping to hear a back from you when you have your own site setup with Drupal!
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ividyon thanks!
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ividyon have a nice evening. for now, off to waste my life on warcraft ;)
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barnabywalters it would be great to have some people using drupal for indieweb stuff!
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barnabywalters a few people have mentioned it but none actually using it yet AFAIK
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KartikPrabhu or their own site in general :P
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KartikPrabhu anyone know a Drupal based personal site?
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tantek barnabywalters: correct, no one here nor even those who asked for it on Twitter actually use Drupal for their personal site
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tantek KartikPrabhu, what is Drupal?
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tantek no Loqi q?
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tantek what is Drupal?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Drupal" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Drupal
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KartikPrabhu ha! tantek fail! :P
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tantek KartikPrabhu, Loqi answered your question.
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KartikPrabhu well I know there are no indiewebcampers using it
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KartikPrabhu no tents on the Drupal plateau so to speak
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tantek KartikPrabhu: as you found from your thread with @noneck
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KartikPrabhu yup
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tantek https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/532295440364883968
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@aaronpk @noneck Is that surprising? It looks like your personal site also isn't Drupal! @kartik_prabhu @indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/532295440364883968)
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rascul gonna go back to the hangout by demo time because i have some things to demo
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tantek FWIW it appears noneck.org (stil) uses WordPress
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rascul didn't demo my anything on my site in cambridge so i'm gonna do it tonight :)
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tantek rascul - getting your sister setup on her domain with Known and Level 5 A+ HTTPS was pretty darn impressive
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rascul i've setup many web sites, it wasn't really that difficult for me
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rascul but i do realize it was a lot of work and probably wouldn't be as quick of a process for people who haven't had experience similar to mine in that regard
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rascul and i'm happy to help others :)
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tantek rascul - that experience and help is very much valued!!!
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tantek what is IWC online?
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Loqi Join us for the very first IndieWebCamp Online. IndiewebCamp Online is a one-day IndieWebCamp conducted entirely online without a physical venue http://indiewebcamp.com/IWC_Online
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rascul i recall a discussion about slugs earlier, i think it was in the hangout
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rascul i wanted to comment that my slugs are editable, but the permalink is not based on the slug
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tantek rascul: did any of it make it to /URL_design ?
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tantek rascul - me too
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rascul tantek i'm not sure
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rascul i wasn't really paying much attention at the time heh
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tantek GWG, how do I do a session?
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GWG A session where?
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GWG At IWC Online?
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GWG We switched to Hackfest mode
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tantek oh ok
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tantek I'm going to do wikifest mode
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tantek since that is where I am most behind
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tantek most itching
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GWG Oh
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GWG I'll be here doing...stuff.
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tantek.com created /wikifying (+249) "stub with dfn" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /wikifying (+94) "E.g." (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /User:David.shanske.com (+129) "/* Wordpress Development */" (view diff)
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tantek decides to start with metawikifying.
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david.shanske.com edited /User:David.shanske.com (+124) "/* For the Future */" (view diff)
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aaronpk back in a bit
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david.shanske.com edited /WordPress (+125) "/* Optional plugins */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /WordPress (-121) "/* Using on one of their sites */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /WordPress (+121) "/* Switched to another project */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /WordPress (-103) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /WordPress (+18) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /WordPress (+63) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /WordPress (+21) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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@HOUSEDwebseries Have you liked our #Facebook page? https://www.facebook.com/HOUSEDthewebseries #webseries #SupportIndieFilm #indieweb #comedy #horror #funny #scary #zombie (twitter.com/_/status/534128971425009665)
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aaronpk heading out for a bit, will be back shortly after 4pm PST
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tantek lol. like our FB page! (indieweb hashtag)
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david.shanske.com edited /WordPress/Development (+151) "/* Working On */" (view diff)
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GWG Procrastination may be defined as updating the wiki page about things I sort of did so far and may not do today
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rascul what is procrastination?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "procrastination" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=procrastination
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david.shanske.com created /procrastination (+24) "Created page with "Page to Be Created later"" (view diff)
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rascul ;)
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GWG Sorry...I couldn't resist.
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rascul i tanteked somebody!
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rascul what is tanteking?
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Loqi Tantek-ing is a method of encouraging people to contribute to the wiki by indirectly prompting the person who first mentioned the term to create a short wiki dfn page for it http://indiewebcamp.com/tanteking
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GWG Why don't you add to the procrastination page?
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rascul i'll do it later
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david.shanske.com edited /private_posts (+810) (view diff)
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GWG tantek: This is a microformat thought that came up during the Messaging discussion. Do you have any ideas?
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tantek GWG, what was the UI thought that came first?
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@TheRealDod http://codepen.io/thedod/pen/yyLGyO ’s a more detailed theme for #IndieWebcamp webmentions. Fork it in good health. (twitter.com/_/status/534133730894688256)