#indiewebcamp 2014-11-16

2014-11-16 UTC
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@TheRealDod
@gywst I now have an #IndieWebcamp node at https://dubiousdod.org/indie/ (this is where I’m tweeting from)
(twtr.io/sxwMbSH10o)
snarfed1, alanpearce, agaric, chrissaad, krendil and danlyke_ joined the channel
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tantek.com
edited /2014/Online/Guest_List (+520) "RSVP, note missing part of the day"
(view diff)
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GWG
I guess I'll have to pick up the slack
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tantek
GWG :)
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GWG
tantek: Any advice for ben_thatmustbeme and myself on keeping an IWC moving along?
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tantek
GWG, clone the intro session from a previous IWC, and see about adapting it for this medium
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme was there in Cambridge for that particular delivery of the intro session, so he should be familiar with how that went, and may have some opinions about adapting it for Online.
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GWG
Well, I was at two IWCs as well.
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tantek
!tell bret are you doing HWC in Portland? Looks like both aaronpk and dietrich are unable to host or attend - this week - want to pick a location to host? http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-11-19-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG
tantek: I need to write up an RSVP for that
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tantek
GWG - yes you were. However the intro session has continued to evolve after that. At IWC UK, then at IWC Cambridge.
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bret
Tantek, I have been on somewhat of a meetup hiatus. Last quarter of school is wrecking me. I don't think I can host until after the end of the quarter.
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Loqi
bret: tantek left you a message 2 minutes ago: are you doing HWC in Portland? Looks like both aaronpk and dietrich are unable to host or attend - this week - want to pick a location to host? http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-11-19-homebrew-website-club
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GWG
tantek: I'll be happy to host an HWC in New York City.
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GWG
Regrettably, I don't think anyone from NYC is coming
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tantek
GWG - just need to find one more person to co-host with and you can do it.
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GWG
tantek: If you ever hear of any.
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tantek
GWG - up to your initiative
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tantek
perhaps check with / contact other participants of past IWC NYC events for starters
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GWG
I was hoping a future IWC NYC would attract more newcomers if we had more notice.
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tantek
focus on the next immediate thing, not something in the more distant future. In this case, instead of hope far off, act on what you can do for a HWC this week.
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GWG
tantek: Show up
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tantek
exactly
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GWG
Slow night
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kylewm
GWG: still looking at facepiles?
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GWG
kylewm: Yes. And comment presentation. I completely redesigned the way I was doing it.
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GWG
kylewm: I keep seeing your face
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snarfed
shades of sixth sense
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snarfed
"i see avatar people!"
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GWG
snarfed: I've been deep into the WordPress comments code
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sysfu
Hi all. I'm getting started setting up a new blog. I'm looking for something minimalist, ideally does not require database, prefer python over PHP, and indieweb fiendly. Any suggestions?
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sysfu
I'm looking at PyBloxsom at the moment.
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GWG
Hello, sysfu.
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sysfu
Howdy.
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sysfu
Sorr, bounced my local tor relay node and disconnected my IRC bouncer
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GWG
sysfu: There are python users here. Not sure if any of them are around.
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sysfu
OK, thanks. I'll check back in later, going to recompile my Tor relay to use LibreSSL instead of OpenSSL.
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sysfu
...which will take down my IRC connection...
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sysfu
So be back in a few hours
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kylewm
man pyblosxom has been around a long time
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snarfed
oh man, pyblosxom. i used that a while back
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kylewm
it's interesting, seems like it's been a small but continuously active project for >10 years
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kylewm
first commit was on my 20th birthday :)
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snarfed
wow, yeah
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bear
used to be a committer for pybloxsom back in the day
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snarfed
bear++
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Loqi
bear has 48 karma
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bear
was introduced to it by my old boss Ted Leung
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@DigiRightsIL
2014/Online - IndieWebCamp starts in a few hours, log on and share the knowledge! https://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Online
(twtr.io/syop_vfphR)
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@gywst
RT @TheRealDod: This Sunday there's an online #IndieWebCamp https://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Online and I'm "going" https://zzzen.com/hiddenid/?p=74 Join us.
(twtr.io/syqHLQoCo0)
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notizblog.org
edited /2014/Online/Guest_List (+284) "/* Participants */"
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@TheRealDod
RT @DigiRightsIL: 2014/Online - IndieWebCamp starts in a few hours, log on and share the knowledge! https://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Online
(twtr.io/sz7NhqFidg)
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@ekes
@jerbob92 @diekatja @dcberlin Ah. Actually following the #indieweb discussion at the moment #dcb14
(twtr.io/sz8RcJ6qso)
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GWG
Good morning
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leadballhummingb
morning
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ben_thatmust
morning GWG
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GWG
How did you get from leadballhummingb to ben_thatmust?
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ben_thatmust
leadballhummingbird was an old username
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ben_thatmust
it jumps back if I get disconnected
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GWG
ben_thatmust: Anything we need to discuss before 11?
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ben_thatmust
also dissolve
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ben_thatmust
i don't think so
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ben_thatmust
i may cut out on the hack session a little early
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ben_thatmust
to make dinner
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GWG
ben_thatmust: Dinner is good. I may have to step away for 10 minutes. They are delivering a new dryer. Old one exploded. Sometime between 9:45 and 12:45
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GWG
pfefferle: That reminds me. I sent over a Pull Request. Hopefully it is an improvement over the last one...which I learned from.
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pfefferle
GWG I have a look at it later at the indiewebcamp :)
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pfefferle
have to do some things before
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pfefferle
see you later
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GWG
pfefferle: Looking forward to it.
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thedod
kylewm, wm_receiver doesn't find my posts (probably bc mounted with prefix) https://zerobin.net/?e7a20d0bf5769b67#0hy60NeuomePrRftbkhy1jhhcY2P/g26MFt0Nz5+8Po=
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thedod
scratches head
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thedod
and *I* thought there were no mentions because nobody liked me :)
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thedod
found it \o/
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thedod
parsed_url.path :)
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thedod
Dinner, then I fix it
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GWG
Better go get cleaned up for IWC Online.
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david.shanske.com
edited /2014/Online/Guest_List (+87) "/* Participants */"
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david.shanske.com
edited /2014/Online/Guest_List (+57) "/* IndieWebCamp Online 2014 */"
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thedod
that's what I'm about to commit unless a problem
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thedod
s/a problem/kylewm or someone has a better idea/
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Loqi
thedod meant to say: that's what I'm about to commit unless kylewm or someone has a better idea
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@jkphl
Great #bono14 outcome: "@textformer: Here are the slides for my session »The Indie Web Movement« - http://textformer.de/slides/dcb14/ #dcb14" #indieweb
(twtr.io/szJ9goQPU0)
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ben_thatmust
i'm just about set up
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GWG
ben_thatmust: Working on it here. Hangouts is giving me an issue for some reason.
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GWG
Doing a quick restart
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ben_thatmust
you going on as the IWC account i'm assuming
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thedod
I'm still not sure how the GUI of this works, but it's google, so I guess they know better what's friendly :)
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ben_thatmust
GWG, want me to try starting it?
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GWG
We just tested this last week too
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ben_thatmust
okay, I'll just try starting it
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GWG
Oh, well. Live demos.
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GWG
I'm loading it up now.
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aaronpk
good morning!
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GWG
It is insisting I don't have a camera.
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ben_thatmust
GWG< i tried starting it
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ben_thatmust
i think we are both on via the IWC account
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ben_thatmust
i heard you for a second
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aaronpk
is there a hangout URL posted somewhere?
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GWG
Yes. In the notes
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GWG
ben_thatmust: You be the IWC account then
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aaronpk
of course
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GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: I think you may need to invite people
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thedod
I think I'm there (url ends with 88k)
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aaronpk
i'm having trouble getting connected *not* as indiewebcamp
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thedod
I press play and see a still
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aaronpk
it keeps auto-changing me to the indiewebcamp user
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thedod
and no gui to setup my audio/video
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GWG
aaronpk: I'll run the thing
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aaronpk
i'm just trying to figure out how I can connect as my own google account
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thedod
aaronpk, private/incognito browser :)
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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aaronpk
but I have to log in to google!
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kylewm
good morning :) I think I'm there too, it says "This live broadcast will begin soon"?
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thedod
from incognito, login as aaron
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ben_thatmust_
that link should join the actual hangout
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aaronpk
but my google account is listed as a manager on the indiewebcamp page so it'll just put me in the same boat
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thedod
is lost in all this identity soup :)
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aaronpk
google's identity soup is thick
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aaronpk
ben_thatmust_: cool that link worked
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thedod
bloody hell. need to install plugin :)
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rascul
chromium can't find my mic :(
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GWG
Welcome to IndiewebCamp Online 2014.
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GWG
I will be your narrator today
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GWG
Video will be available after the fact and live
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GWG
We've called upon aaronpk to recount the ancient days of Indiewebcamp
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GWG
ben_thatmustbe gave a brief overview
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GWG
Now, he is showing his site, benthatmustbe.me
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GWG
He supports login with Indieauth.
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GWG
And can verify using silos or the insecure Google Authenticator.
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GWG
Now that he has authenticated, he has editing options....
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ben_thatmust
GWG what is the page you are working off for the schedule?
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ben_thatmust
GWG is showing off his site, displaying back end in Wordpress
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ben_thatmust
has a project in mind already for his site
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ben_thatmust
bringing h-cards in to his site and storing them commonly
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ben_thatmust
John Reinhardt talks about his new experience in the indieweb
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ben_thatmust
coming from a world where everything is secrective and anonymous, so this is quite a change for him
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GWG
The . is not needed.
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ben_thatmust
Aaron Parecki shows off his site
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ben_thatmust
basics of posting notes, and the usual but has a page /metrics that keeps track of information about himself
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ben_thatmust
he has 2 ways to enter data in to the site
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ben_thatmust
one that he can enter data free form but also has an app called teacup that he can use from his watch
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ben_thatmust
teacup.p3k.io
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ben_thatmust
has been working on finishing the pebble app so that anyone else can use it
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ben_thatmust
also shows off indiewebcat.com, Dora's site
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ben_thatmust
is lacking syndicate out posts after the fact
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GWG
And Dora just ate some cat food.
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ben_thatmust
Matthias from germany does not have much to show of as he is also part of the wordpress outreach club
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ben_thatmust
he is working on webmention plugin
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ben_thatmust
no one in germany is using the indieweb yet, sadly (besides him)
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ben_thatmust
notizblog.org
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aaronpk
we had several people get a pretty good start when I was doing the workshop in Nürnberg a couple weeks ago!
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aaronpk
here's a thread of people who were able to send a webmention during the workshop https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/10/18/1/bordernone
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ben_thatmust
GWG you want ot take over
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ben_thatmust
i have to step away for a second
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tantek
catches up on logs
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@dshanske
Today I am attending IndieWebCamp 2014 Online, of which I am a co-organizer.
(twtr.io/szSq9DX6TC)
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tantek
aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/10/18/1/bordernone is super cool - yet where are the people icons?
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ben_thatmust
GWG, what is the page for that further breakdown of the schudule you are using?
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aaronpk
good question! I thought there were some before. maybe people have sent updated webmentions
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aaronpk
ben_thatmust: I think he's looking at this http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Introductions
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kylewm
wifi problems :(
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ben_thatmust
collaborativeinter.net
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GWG
Sessions Proposals begin now
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thedod
security?
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david.shanske.com
edited /2014/Online/Sessions (-14) "/* Security */"
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aaronpk
messaging!
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aaronpk
along with organizing contacts lists
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tantek
aaronpk - is organizing contacts lists a reprise of the session from IWC 2014 PDX?
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tantek
still doesn't get what is "organizing contacts lists" besides just a list of URLs
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tantek
(and maybe caching h-card info from those URLs)
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tantek
per nicknames cache
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aaronpk
i think gwg mentioned that
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tantek
what is a nicknames cache?
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Loqi
A nicknames cache is a way indieweb sites store information about people to improve the user experience of the site owner referring, mention, and/or linking to those people http://indiewebcamp.com/nicknames-cache
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aaronpk
in the context of wordpress
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aaronpk
thedod suggested that since there are already a lot of chat standards and work being done there, better to try to find a way to embed one of those in the indieweb context rather than invent a new messaging mechanism
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tantek
ooh I like the Have / Want split! well done.
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tantek
what is indie messaging?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "indie messaging" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=indie+messaging
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tantek.com
edited /2014/Online/Sessions (+1) "/* Have */ '"
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ben_thatmust
computer completely frozen
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GWG
ben_thatmust: Sorry. I'll keep the thing going
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tantek.com
edited /2014/Online/Sessions (+8) "linky linky"
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ben_thatmust
rebooting
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tantek
needs to run out to get coffee. Literally.
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aaronpk
coffee is an important part of any indiewebcamp. even the online ones.
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aaronparecki.com
edited /2014/Online/Sessions (+0) "/* MicroPub */ not camel case"
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aaronpk
what is oembed?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "oembed" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=oembed
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aaronpk
huh, i'm surprised there's no page
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kylewm
me too
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tantek
aaronpk - because it's an old way of doing things?
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GWG
tantek: It does make for a decent fallback though
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tantek
what's the difference between whitelisting a list of oembed providers (which everyone who supports it ends up doing), and whitelisting a list of domain-based embedding conversions in your auto-linker code?
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tantek
GWG - not worth the maintenance IMO
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aaronpk
I support oembed for soundcloud embeds, but that's more because that's the only way they do it
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tantek
IMO it's also the wrong philosophy
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tantek
aaronpk - right, for legacy
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tantek
if you want to provide a preview for something, link-preview has thoughts on that
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aaronpk
yeah. and actually the way it's gone it's essentially a provider-specific thing
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tantek
hence, a failure as a standard
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GWG
The sessions are now up on the wiki
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aaronpk
dropping off the hangout momentarily
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GWG
4 Sessions have been proposed.
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tantek
certainly it's not worth *publishing* oembed
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GWG
tantek: That I will agree with.
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aaronpk
this is why we need a wiki page for it :)
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tantek
consuming it for display of legacy silos - perhaps for such legacy silos you care about
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tantek
but then, you can always write your own per-legacy-silo auto-embed code instead
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tantek
which can be less work that supporting oembed
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GWG
tantek: I always get things up as quickly as possible, then return to improve them
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tantek
GWG, "oembed" by no means is "as quickly as possible"
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GWG
First session begins in 4 minutes...Security.
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tantek
auto-linking code tends to be
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GWG
tantek: It is when WordPress has it built in.
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tantek
publishing or consuming?
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GWG
Consuming
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tantek
anyway the point is, if you want to talk about "oembed" rather than talk about oembed which is *plumbing* talk about the larger user-centric context which is /link-preview.
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GWG
I want to talk about presentation
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GWG
I've been studying silos and other Indiewebcamp sites for design thoughts.
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GWG
We do have a security page. http://indiewebcamp.com/security
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GWG
thedod is proposing review of security in Indiewebcamp
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GWG
Reviewing a project called HiddenID
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ben_thatmust
hidden-id.github.io
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GWG
Hidden ID is a smiley with sunglasses.
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GWG
He is proposing a way to identify people with some level of anonymity, allowing some level of trust to be built.
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GWG
For this to work, Tor is necessary.
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GWG
Back to Security.
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GWG
Should people be able to put rel= links into the wiki.
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aaronpk
did anybody say if rel=me could go on user pages?
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GWG
It can apparently go into all pages, according to thedod?
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GWG
I suggested limit to user pages
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MattSchutte
Guys, I'm going to have to leave. Thanks for letting me sit in.
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kylewm
thanks for joining MattSchutte :)
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GWG
ben_thatmustbeme is trying to 'tantek' this.
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kylewm
this is frustrating
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kylewm
should we pick this conversation up when thedod has his mic working?
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rascul
my dog stopped by for a visit :)
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GWG
Just trying the rel=me experiment
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GWG
Have just confirmed I can put a rel into the wiki
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GWG
thedod_: I think we have audio for you?
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thedod_
compiled xchat :)
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GWG
pfefferle: You knew I was going to do that.
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pfefferle
GWG yep
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tantek
let's ask the selfdogfood question re: HiddenID
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tantek
thedod: are you supporting HiddenID on your own primary personal website?
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thedod_
user side reputation management
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tantek
aaronpk, another criticism of OEmbed (in case you want to start a wiki page on it) - it fails the #selfdogfood test. None of its creators are running it, publishing or consuming, on their own primary personal web sites.
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pfefferle
tantek I do :)
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tantek
as to why there isn't an OEmbed wiki page, no one has cared about it enough to start one, and as legacy tech, I was fine to leave it as single bullet point on /link-preview.
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tantek
pfefferle: the creators are listed here http://oembed.com/#section6 - none of them are supporting it on their primary personal websites
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pfefferle
tantek but these are companies… what do you mean by ”žpersonal“?
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aaronpk
to pass the selfdogfood test, the creators would at least have to consume oembed
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tantek
(and yes I just double checked: iamcal.com, immike.net (domain offline but still linked from his twitter @mjmalone), leahculver.com, rcrowley.org )
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tantek
pfefferle: no these are humans
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tantek
what part of Cal Henderson, Mike Malone, Leah Culver, Richard Crowley looks like "companies" to you pfefferle? where did you get the idea "these are companies" ?!?
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pfefferle
tantek oh you meant the authors… the list is so small so I looked at the providers… sorry :)
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GWG
thedod: Please add more of your notes to the Security Session section in the wiki.
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tantek
pfefferle: I said "None of its creators are running it, publishing or consuming, on their own primary personal web sites." Every word there counts.
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tantek
*creators*
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pfefferle
tantek I am no native speaker so exuse some misunderstandings...
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tantek
pfefferle: no problem. would appreciate your review of this too then, recently updated: http://indiewebcamp.com/selfdogfood#key_components
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tantek
pfefferle: in general in indiewebcamp the bias is towards people, indidividuals, independents, not companies.
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tantek
or rather people *before* companies
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david.shanske.com
edited /2014/Online/Sessions (-1) "/* Messaging */"
(view diff)
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pfefferle
tantek ok, got you! will also have a look at the selfdogfood page later...
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tantek
pfefferle: thank you - really appreciated. "selfdogfood" is probably one of the most important /principles of indiewebcamp and thus very much needs to be internationally understandable.
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tantek
would anyone be interested in a session later on "wikifying"?
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thedod_
+1 wikifying
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tantek
that is - general how to / Q&A about how to best add things to the wiki, incrementally, new pages, new sections, etc.?
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pfefferle
tantek I understand and share your point depending the indieweb… but I think all authors/creators worked on an implementation of OEmbed into their plattform like pownce, flickr or youtube…
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tantek
pfefferle: that's the difference between *dogfood* and *selfdogfood*
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tantek
if all you do is "work" on it, and make a "platform" for *others*, then you're only dogfooding.
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tantek
not selfdogfooding
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rascul
aaronpk i was pondering probably the same thing irt jabber
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GWG
Discussing Messaging.
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rascul
using domain for identity with a jabber server
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tantek
pfefferle: in short, if you're not willing to support your creation on your own primary personal website, why should others support it on their primary personal websites?
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GWG
Messaging as a 'private' message system. Real time messaging is likely best with interfacing with existing protocols.
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pfefferle
tantek I totally agree from the indieweb perspective
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tantek.com
edited /selfdogfood (+149) "stronger dfn"
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GWG
Ben is showing off his contacts dream as an aspect of messaging.
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GWG
Lost signal.
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GWG
Suggestion for a microformat markup that would mark a piece of information as not to be shared for logged in users.
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tantek
negative mark indicators have not had much historical success
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tantek
e.g. Yahoo tried a while ago with "do not index" markup for search
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tantek
e.g. do not index this div
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tantek
total failure
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aaronpk
this is more about indicating who a post is shared with
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aaronpk
example given was a google+ post, which indicates who a post is shared with
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tantek
then where's the screenshot of a google+ post, which indicates who a post is shared with?
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aaronpk
that's what i was asking for
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aaronpk
i don't use g+ really so i don't have a lot of examples off the top of my head
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tantek
screenshots of existing (silo) examples for such use-cases should precede any questions/requests for "a microformat markup that would … "
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tantek
design before plumbing
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aaronpk
gah either chrome is being slow or all google JS just got 1085824x more bloated.
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aaronpk
g+ and Inbox are super slow for me
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tantek
I installed NoScript add-on in Firefox two days ago and am MUCH happier.
#
tantek
turns out for most of the web, you actually don't need their 12+ scripts per page
#
tantek
and it makes your browsing 10x faster at least
#
tantek
makes me think nearly no one who is using JS on their sites is bothering to profile how badly it is slowing down the UX
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /private_posts (+104) "/* Silo Examples */"
(view diff)
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tantek
out for a bit. be back in a couple of hours and hope to get on the live/video/chat thingie y'all have going
#
tantek
GWG, feel free to add "wikifying" as a "Want" session with me as an available facilitator and thedod as interested per above above
#
mlncn
NoScript++
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Loqi
NoScript has 1 karma
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david.shanske.com
edited /2014/Online/Sessions (+478) "/* Messaging */"
(view diff)
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GWG
http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Online/Sessions#Want I avoided referring to it as the 'mystic' art of tanteking.
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david.shanske.com
edited /2014/Online/Sessions (+4) "/* Wikifying */"
(view diff)
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rascul
have some things to do, turning the camera off for a bit, but i'll have my bluetooth headphones on so i can still hear while i'm walking around the house
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aaronpk
remove[name]=1&remove[location]=1
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aaronpk
remove[]=name&remove[]=location
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pfefferle
sorry guys but I have to leave… perhaps I have the time to rejoin later today…
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kylewm
Zakim who's making noise
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aaronpk
kylewm++
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Loqi
kylewm has 84 karma
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GWG
pfefferle: Thanks for the approval on the pull request
#
GWG
Will have more for you.
#
GWG
pfefferle: Although I do want to know your thoughts about comment_class.
#
GWG
kylewm: I think it is thedod.
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GWG
But I'm not sure
cmhobbs joined the channel
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GWG
Indieweb Design
danlyke_ joined the channel
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thedod_
how about the way bootstrap does nedia-list as a reference? http://getbootstrap.com/components/#media-list
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GWG
aaronpk: http://indiewebcamp.com/facepile Did you notice someone spelled your name off?
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ben_thatmust
indiewebcat: proof that the internet is for cat pictures
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david.shanske.com
edited /2014/Online (+14) "/* Schedule */"
(view diff)
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GWG
Schedule now updated, lunch break from :40-:15
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GWG
Needed a break from my headphones
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aaronparecki.com
edited /facepile (+199) "/* Aaron Parecki */ add examples and dates"
(view diff)
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GWG
Do we want to stream the hacking or just the demos?
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aaronpk
probably not worth recording the hacking
KartikPrabhu and mlncn joined the channel
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GWG
Trying to remember how to upload to the wiki. Don't think I've ever uploaded
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aaronpk
you make a [[File:whatever.png]] link first then click it
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GWG
That works.
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thedod_
btw, should webmentioning the wiki work? what about the irc log?
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aaronpk
you can right now, its hows up in IRC
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aaronpk
shows up
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aaronpk
we're talking about doing a JS embed thingy to show webmentions on event RSVPs for example
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thedod_
this could be a nice hack for today. is there API to get a page's mentions?
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david.shanske.com
edited /facepile (+38) "/* Twitter */"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
(right now webmention.io isn't parsing out RSVPs separately, they just look like regular mentions)
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aaronpk
maybe I could hack that up real quick
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david.shanske.com
edited /facepile (+0) "/* Twitter */"
(view diff)
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ben_thatmust
i'm thinking i may hack on getting private posts working
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thedod_
gets paranoid just tinking about the implications :)
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ben_thatmust
oh, as for additional things on a micropub client, we might want to poll for a list of people to suggest for private mentions
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aaronpk
oh yeah!
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ben_thatmust
s/mentions/messages/
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Loqi
ben_thatmust meant to say: oh, as for additional things on a micropub client, we might want to poll for a list of people to suggest for private messages
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pdurbin
thedod_: that private wouldn't be private?
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thedod_
it's on a server. not at your house. doesn't require a warrant, physical access. yada yada
Gold joined the channel
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david.shanske.com
edited /facepile (+156) "/* Twitter */"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
that's out of scope, since where it's hosted has nothing to do with the protocol or user interface
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rascul
what is the hangouts link? i lost it
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "the hangouts link? i lost it" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=the+hangouts+link%3F+i+lost+it
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thedod_
true. but maybe best practice should be only run it at home :)
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GWG
rascul: We adjourned for lunch
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rascul
oh ok
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thedod_
btw, in http://twister.net.co private messages are safe as houses
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ben_thatmust
GWG: i can't figure out how you scheduled the hangouts as IWC
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GWG
You want me to do it?
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GWG
Under events.
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david.shanske.com
edited /2014/Online (+231) "/* IndieWebCampOnline 2014 */"
(view diff)
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thedod_
aaronpk, what's the API for a wiki page's mentions in json or something?
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thedod_
thanks
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kylewm
hey y'all, I've gotta take off for today. have fun hackign, i'll look forward to seeing what you come up with!
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aaronpk
sorry i took off my headphiones. feedbackwas probably me
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GWG
kylewm: Any time
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ben_thatmust
thedod_ i seem to have muted you again
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ben_thatmust
i thought i could easily unmute
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ben_thatmust
seems that is not the case
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GWG
You could for me, I think
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GWG
I'm continuing work on Semantic Comments, which is the rewrite of the Facepile feature using a much less intrusive design.
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ben_thatmust
no, i can't
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ben_thatmust
it won't let me unmute you
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aaronparecki.com
edited /2014/Online/Sessions (+25) "/* Micropub */ add link to session page"
(view diff)
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aaronparecki.com
edited /2014/Online/Sessions (+0) "/* 2014/Online/Micropub Micropub */ gah wiki syntax"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
totally forgot about etherpad
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GWG
Shoot
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aaronparecki.com
created /2014/Online/Micropub (+1405) "dump my notes from the morning session"
(view diff)
hodlr, tributarian, shiflett, reedstrm and jonathanfrei joined the channel
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thedod_
aaronpk, got CORS problems with the wiki. See http://codepen.io/thedod/pen/jEOQRO (view debug console)
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aaronpk
just use jsonp
mlncn and eschnou joined the channel
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@anomalily
@BarnabyWalters Hell yes I do! @aaronpk is coming too! Indiewebcamp Reykjavík perhaps?
(twtr.io/szuWg96pEf)
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Micropub (+32) "update syndication query to use [] notation"
(view diff)
barnabywalters joined the channel
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aaronpk
very cool!
KartikPrabhu, tantek, rknLA and fmarier joined the channel
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tantek
good afternoon #indiewebcamp online!
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barnabywalters
afternoon — how’s IWC Online going?
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Loqi
barnabywalters: jonnybarnes left you a message 6 days, 5 hours ago: whilst my site can send your site webmention replies that show up, your site isn't finding the author info from my post, however shrewdness does: https://shrewdness.waterpigs.co.uk/test/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fjonnybarnes.uk%2Fnotes%2F41
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rascul
there's only four people left!
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rascul
well, three and a cat ;)
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barnabywalters
jonnybarnes: indeed, shrewdness has a better implementation. I need to update Taproot to use the same code!
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barnabywalters
is it indiewebcat?
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GWG
barnabywalters: It is
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GWG
We're all watching her.
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KartikPrabhu
on the internet the cat watches you
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aaronpk
a sleeping cat
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barnabywalters
Kartikprabhu: on the indieweb, cats watch you
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barnabywalters
resists urge to create indiewebrock.com or indiewebstickinsect.com
ividyon joined the channel
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ividyon
Hello.
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GWG
barnabywalters: How about Indiewebimaginaryfriend.com?
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KartikPrabhu
hi ividyon
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barnabywalters
GWG: what, like an AI which you pay to send you webmention comments? that’s either a bit creepy or an excellent webmention testing tool
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ividyon
I've a question about Indie Web Movement. I've heard about the concept at DrupalCamp Berlin today, and I've been thinking about some kinda terrifying implications
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tantek
welcome ividyon!
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barnabywalters
greetings ividyon! welcome to #indiewebcamp
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GWG
Terrifying?
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GWG
Welcome though
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GWG
Tell us your fears.
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tantek
But first, do you have a personal website ividyon?
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ividyon
Nope!
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tantek
do you want a personal website ividyon?
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ividyon
Let's say, Big Data is bad. Companies like Facebook and Twitter keep all your data forever, cache it, use it for advertisement, re-sell it etc.
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ividyon
Now, this happens behind the scenes, and since the companies are big faceless globs of evil, and they collect all these tons of data, single individuals in them probably don't care about single posts you make.
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tantek
not even forever, inevitably they die and take your data with the. per /site-deaths
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ividyon
Let's say you wrote something embarassing and deleted it right away. Facebook etc. keep it, because that's how they roll, but at least they have the courtesy to hide it from your peers and close ones.
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KartikPrabhu
one would hope
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ividyon
Now, let's say the IWM gets into full gear and replaces current social networks. Suddenly, its not big faceless companies caching and storing all that data, it's.. everyone.
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tantek
it's distributed
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ividyon
And since you now have every one of your friends caching the shit you just said, with no way to delete it remotely other than asking kindly, your blunder is out there for eternity.
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KartikPrabhu
ividyon: anything on the web can be crawled and cached and stored anyway
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tantek
yay welcome to the internet, no take backs ;)
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Loqi
does a happy dance!
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KartikPrabhu
nothing to do with silos or indieweb
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ividyon
Yeah, but it "can be". By people with such vested interests, or on the off chance that you have a fellow nerd doing that kind of crawling around you.
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ividyon
With IWM, it would always be.
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tantek
what is IWM?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "IWM" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=IWM
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: indieweb movement
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ividyon
indie web movement... which is how the concept was presented to me
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ividyon
sorry for using wrong terms :)
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KartikPrabhu
ividyon: why do you think your data will always be cached or something?
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barnabywalters
ividyon: well the indieweb is really “just” the web with extra bits added, so this is really a problem with publishing stuff on the web in general
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tantek
ividyon it sounds like you're learning something about the internet, nothing unique about "web" nor "indie web".
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barnabywalters
even if things are deleted from silos, people can (and do) take screenshots
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aaronpk
not even unique to the internet! what happens if you mail a letter to someone!
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk++ good point
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Loqi
aaronpk has 605 karma
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tantek
I have netnews (NNTP) posts from the late 1980s that I thought were ephemeral that someone was archiving and now are fully searchable via Google Groups via their acquisition of Deja News
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aaronpk
or pass a note to someone in class. even if you get the original back, you don't know if someone took a photo of it in the mean time
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tantek
ividyon - your fear has nothing to do with indie web - and predates the web.
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KartikPrabhu
i am sure people said the same about photocopying, photography, digital photography
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ividyon
Nah. There's ALWAYS the scare of "your data never ever being deleted from the internet!!" and staying there forever, in regards to Facebook and what not. But in the end, it "stays forever" at Facebook's private corporate archives, and perhaps the occasional friend with interests in archiving data he gets. With Indie Web concepts - assuming theres eventually super popular, easy-to-use frameworks any
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ividyon
layman would use - suddenly everybody would be participating in Big Data collection to 'own their own content', no?
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tantek
anyway, the point is, it's pointless to worry about such things which have are outside the specific topic of #indiewebcamp
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tantek
ividyon - nope, assume any public post anywhere could be internet archived forever
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KartikPrabhu
ividyon: not really. I can already cache your twitter and facebook
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tantek
nothing to do with FB or whatever
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tantek
and nothing to do with "web" either, see above about NNTP
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KartikPrabhu
what do you think indieweb adds to this?
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tantek
ividyon - anyway - let's get back to being productive
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KartikPrabhu
hmm multiple-questioning is bad, I'll let tantek take over
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tantek
ividyon - do you want a personal website?
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ividyon
Like, let's say I write something emotionally charged and wipe it 2 minutes later. Right now, I'm only in danger if I'm so unlucky that a friend views it within those 2 minutes, or I have a mysterious caching friend which is pretty unlikely right now. But with Indie Web, people would return home hours later and still be able to read it up, assuming their IW system fetched and saved that post for th
#
ividyon
em (and they have no generic deletion API).
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ividyon
oh well!
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ividyon
guess I'm the only one with those concerns because I regularly fuck up and write stupid shit on the internet :p
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tantek
ividyon - no, everyone does, and then doesn't worry about it.
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aaronpk
ividyon: we have documented how to "politely" handle deletes, which is what your last example is
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KartikPrabhu
ividyon: indieweb users don't actively cache everything!
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barnabywalters
what is deletion?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "deletion" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=deletion
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ividyon
hm! well, let's hope that will be commonly implemented then, at least.
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tantek
ividyon - much more likely your utterances on twitter will be cached/archived forever
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tantek
since they send a feed to the Library of Congress
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barnabywalters
also, bear in mind cases in which deletion is abused by people in positions of power
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barnabywalters
e.g. harassers on twitter posting tweets, then deleting them (removing evidence) before moderation teams see them
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KartikPrabhu
still dn't see how this is different from just the usual web
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ividyon
Well. I guess everything is terrible!
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: nor just internet per NNTP
#
tantek
ividyon - so let's get back to something productive
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tantek
do you want a personal website?
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ividyon
Let's see
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ividyon
Eventually, yes! But blogging is such effort, so I'm not sure how much of indie web concepts I could apply. Just the basic stuff like following schema, using h-card etc would be neat though
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aaronpk
who said "blogging"?
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tantek
what do you mean by blogging is such effort? do you use twitter?
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ividyon
Occasionally
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tantek
would you prefer to occasionally use your own website?
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ividyon
Yes, I like the POSSE idea
#
tantek
ividyon - excellent!
#
tantek
let's get you setup on your own website to do that then
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ividyon
Let's not right now. :P I just joined to kick up that topic of mine. I'm satisfied with the responses
#
tantek
do you have a domain? or do you want to just experiment with it first?
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ividyon
Maybe I'll drop by again when I get around to caring about my own site. ;)
#
ividyon
Thank you very much though!
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tantek
ividyon - if you're curious about a very easy to setup path to indieweb - try signing up on withknown.com
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tantek
they have POSSE to Twitter built-in.
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tantek
really easy to use, even/especially on mobile web.
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ividyon
If I made a site, I'd try to build it on my own with Drupal. Perhaps by then there will be a contrib module for it
#
ividyon
for POSSE stuff, I Mean
#
ividyon
mean*
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tantek
ividyon - sure - much respect for building your own with your preferred tools.
#
tantek
a lot of us operate that way and use and build a variety of differnet tools
#
tantek
hoping to hear a back from you when you have your own site setup with Drupal!
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ividyon
thanks!
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ividyon
have a nice evening. for now, off to waste my life on warcraft ;)
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barnabywalters
it would be great to have some people using drupal for indieweb stuff!
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barnabywalters
a few people have mentioned it but none actually using it yet AFAIK
#
KartikPrabhu
or their own site in general :P
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KartikPrabhu
anyone know a Drupal based personal site?
#
tantek
barnabywalters: correct, no one here nor even those who asked for it on Twitter actually use Drupal for their personal site
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tantek
KartikPrabhu, what is Drupal?
#
tantek
no Loqi q?
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tantek
what is Drupal?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Drupal" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Drupal
#
KartikPrabhu
ha! tantek fail! :P
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu, Loqi answered your question.
#
KartikPrabhu
well I know there are no indiewebcampers using it
lukebrooker joined the channel
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KartikPrabhu
no tents on the Drupal plateau so to speak
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: as you found from your thread with @noneck
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@aaronpk
@noneck Is that surprising? It looks like your personal site also isn't Drupal! @kartik_prabhu @indiewebcamp
(twtr.io/sp8ycLW168)
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rascul
gonna go back to the hangout by demo time because i have some things to demo
#
tantek
FWIW it appears noneck.org (stil) uses WordPress
#
rascul
didn't demo my anything on my site in cambridge so i'm gonna do it tonight :)
#
tantek
rascul - getting your sister setup on her domain with Known and Level 5 A+ HTTPS was pretty darn impressive
#
rascul
i've setup many web sites, it wasn't really that difficult for me
#
rascul
but i do realize it was a lot of work and probably wouldn't be as quick of a process for people who haven't had experience similar to mine in that regard
#
rascul
and i'm happy to help others :)
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tantek
rascul - that experience and help is very much valued!!!
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tantek
what is IWC online?
#
Loqi
Join us for the very first IndieWebCamp Online. IndiewebCamp Online is a one-day IndieWebCamp conducted entirely online without a physical venue http://indiewebcamp.com/IWC_Online
#
rascul
i recall a discussion about slugs earlier, i think it was in the hangout
#
rascul
i wanted to comment that my slugs are editable, but the permalink is not based on the slug
#
tantek
rascul: did any of it make it to /URL_design ?
#
tantek
rascul - me too
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rascul
tantek i'm not sure
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rascul
i wasn't really paying much attention at the time heh
jonathanfrei joined the channel
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tantek
GWG, how do I do a session?
#
GWG
A session where?
#
GWG
At IWC Online?
#
GWG
We switched to Hackfest mode
#
tantek
oh ok
#
tantek
I'm going to do wikifest mode
#
tantek
since that is where I am most behind
#
tantek
most itching
#
GWG
I'll be here doing...stuff.
jonathanfrei1 joined the channel
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tantek.com
created /wikifying (+249) "stub with dfn"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /wikifying (+94) "E.g."
(view diff)
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david.shanske.com
edited /User:David.shanske.com (+129) "/* Wordpress Development */"
(view diff)
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tantek
decides to start with metawikifying.
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david.shanske.com
edited /User:David.shanske.com (+124) "/* For the Future */"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
back in a bit
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david.shanske.com
edited /WordPress (+125) "/* Optional plugins */"
(view diff)
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david.shanske.com
edited /WordPress (-121) "/* Using on one of their sites */"
(view diff)
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david.shanske.com
edited /WordPress (+121) "/* Switched to another project */"
(view diff)
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david.shanske.com
edited /WordPress (-103) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
(view diff)
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david.shanske.com
edited /WordPress (+18) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
(view diff)
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david.shanske.com
edited /WordPress (+63) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
(view diff)
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david.shanske.com
edited /WordPress (+21) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
(view diff)
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@HOUSEDwebseries
Have you liked our #Facebook page? https://www.facebook.com/HOUSEDthewebseries #webseries #SupportIndieFilm #indieweb #comedy #horror #funny #scary #zombie
(twtr.io/t03xZNYpM5)
#
aaronpk
heading out for a bit, will be back shortly after 4pm PST
#
tantek
lol. like our FB page! (indieweb hashtag)
#
david.shanske.com
edited /WordPress/Development (+151) "/* Working On */"
(view diff)
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GWG
Procrastination may be defined as updating the wiki page about things I sort of did so far and may not do today
#
rascul
what is procrastination?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "procrastination" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=procrastination
#
david.shanske.com
created /procrastination (+24) "Created page with "Page to Be Created later""
(view diff)
#
GWG
Sorry...I couldn't resist.
#
rascul
i tanteked somebody!
#
rascul
what is tanteking?
#
Loqi
Tantek-ing is a method of encouraging people to contribute to the wiki by indirectly prompting the person who first mentioned the term to create a short wiki dfn page for it http://indiewebcamp.com/tanteking
#
GWG
Why don't you add to the procrastination page?
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rascul
i'll do it later
#
GWG
tantek: This is a microformat thought that came up during the Messaging discussion. Do you have any ideas?
#
tantek
GWG, what was the UI thought that came first?
#
@TheRealDod
http://codepen.io/thedod/pen/yyLGyO ’s a more detailed theme for #IndieWebcamp webmentions. Fork it in good health.
(twtr.io/t05e_5_f4G)