#indiewebcamp 2014-11-18

2014-11-18 UTC
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snarfed i wonder if benwerd and erinjo know about this known ripoff: http://mysmiff.com/
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snarfed (click the blue right arrow, then scroll down)
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snarfed example instance: http://harsh.mysmiff.com/
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kylewm whoa
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aaronpk wait that *is* known
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bret neato, travis ci can auto deploy to heroku http://blog.travis-ci.com
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bret err http://blog.travis-ci.com/2014-11-14-faster-heroku-deployments/
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bret lol snarfed where did you find that>
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snarfed bret: https://www.brid.gy/twitter/harsh545555 :P
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pdurbin snarfed: and yet Elgg is presented as-is. weird
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snarfed aaronpk: exactly!
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kylewm not necessarily nice or friendly, but totally legal right?
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aaronpk I dunno "ripoff" implies at leat something is changed
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kylewm they changed the name of the software :)
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pdurbin this is what AGPL is for, right?
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aaronpk https://github.com/idno/idno/blob/master/LICENSE Apache
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bret i mean, anyone can offer Wordpress hosting no?
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kylewm can I call it Nerdpress?
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aaronpk I think that wouldn't pass the trademark rules
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kylewm oh yeah and Wordpress IS GPL
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aaronpk well congrats benwerd and erinjo! i'd say someone copying the project wholesale is a sign of success
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bret ha
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pdurbin true
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kylewm will it freak him out if we all welcome him to the indieweb?
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aaronpk we could all compliment him on how nice his site looks and how original it is
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snarfed kylewm: probably won't freak him out, he's already interacted with us a bit, e.g. https://snarfed.org/2014-09-23_brooke#comment-2583713
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aaronpk whoa!
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@kylewm2 @harsh545555 Welcome to the #indieweb! Congrats on getting it all set up :) (twitter.com/_/status/534506600619188226)
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@jkphl RT @AaronGustafson: An open question to the #indieweb: http:///notebook/2014/what-do-we-own/ +@adactio @Pinboard @jkphl @border_none (twitter.com/_/status/534508048837267456)
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@border_none RT @AaronGustafson: An open question to the #indieweb: http:///notebook/2014/what-do-we-own/ +@adactio @Pinboard @jkphl @border_none (twitter.com/_/status/534508048912764929)
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@the_Zieger RT @AaronGustafson: An open question to the #indieweb: http:///notebook/2014/what-do-we-own/ +@adactio @Pinboard @jkphl @border_none (twitter.com/_/status/534510451464630273)
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danlyke So I wonder if the folks RTing that are bothering to resolve the full URL, or just not noticing the ///
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snarfed danlyke: clicking the link in the tweet works
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snarfed and curl -i -I http://t.co/OXZEwry01b shows that it redirects to just two slashes
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snarfed so maybe a loqi bug?
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snarfed er, i mean, the t.co link correctly redirects to http://aaron-gustafson.com/notebook/2014/what-do-we-own/
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kylewm wait a sec, this is a Jekyll site statically rendering comments from webmention.io?
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bret I'm working on that
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bret is someone else doing that?
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bret (most implementations have been JS based)
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kylewm the link snarfed just posted
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snarfed kylewm: evidently
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bret super cool!
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kylewm whistles
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gRegor` Is it the Twitter API or Bridgy that automatically adds the @username when you're replying? (if you leave it out of the original note)
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snarfed gRegor`: that's bridgy
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snarfed simce twitter requires a mention of the original author
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snarfed (in replies)
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gRegor` Ah, ok.
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gRegor` I'm adding the auto-@ to my local code, so I can just paste a twitter link and type the note
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gRegor` Realizing my code should also skip trying to find webmention endpoints on twitter.com, heh
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@benwerd IndieHosters is adding us to their lineup: https://indiehosters.net/blog/first-funding/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/534545401475387392)
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aaronpk there's a fascinating discussion going on on the indiebox mailing list, and I kind of want to chime in but I don't want to write an email
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aaronpk considering how hard it would be to write a reply on my website and manually POSSE it to the mailing list, and if it's worth it
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GWG aaronpk: Isn't that always the case?
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GWG The barrier is always how much of a pain it would be
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aaronpk of course I click on the link in the email that says "view this conversation on the web" and it takes me to the google groups home page
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GWG Isn't this community about frictionless?
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aaronpk so that's less than ideal
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aaronpk yeah frictionless is ideal, but i'm willing to put in a few manual steps in the mean time, as i demonstrate plenty often
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GWG aaronpk: Why do you think the watch thing interests me? Low barrier.
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@jjmajava RT @davidpeach1: Plans to build an IndieWeb CMS: http://davidpeach.co.uk/plans-to-build-an-indieweb-cms/ https://twitter.com/davidpeach1/status/532288271762472962/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/534618095231713280)
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@decentcamp RT @AaronGustafson: An open question to the #indieweb: http:///notebook/2014/what-do-we-own/ +@adactio @Pinboard @jkphl @border_none (twitter.com/_/status/534618220356198400)
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pfefferle !tell GWG I implemented the comment-class function you requested… will commit it later… I am curious what you think about it…
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@IndieHosters RT @benwerd: IndieHosters is adding us to their lineup: https://indiehosters.net/blog/first-funding/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/534666679150997504)
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@pierreozoux RT @benwerd: IndieHosters is adding us to their lineup: https://indiehosters.net/blog/first-funding/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/534667031665049601)
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@AaronGustafson @hansup But at its core, I see the owning/controlling aspect of #indieweb as being largely about preservation: “Cool URIs don’t change.” (twitter.com/_/status/534687828488495104)
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GWG pfefferle: Is it in the repository?
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Loqi GWG: pfefferle left you a message 1 hour, 36 minutes ago: I implemented the comment-class function you requested… will commit it later… I am curious what you think about it…
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pfefferle GWG not yet… will commit it later today… have to run some more tests...
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GWG Okay.
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GWG pfefferle: If you ever get a chance, I'd like your opinion on something. https://github.com/dshanske/semantic-comments
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GWG This is what I was rewriting on Sunday. Still need to work on the presentation, but curious your thoughts on the change in implementation.
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pfefferle GWG will do
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GWG pfefferle: If there is anything you would like me to try working on, I still am committed to getting more tools out there for everyone.
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GWG That and improving my coding skills so I can refine said tools
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pfefferle GWG thanks :)
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GWG pfefferle: Thanks as well
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@DeFries @Japh so which particular plugin pulls in the comments on Instagram, Twitter and what not? I'm lost in the IndieWeb forest (twitter.com/_/status/534704968172064769)
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@ndrunix RT @AaronGustafson: An open question to the #indieweb: http:///notebook/2014/what-do-we-own/ +@adactio @Pinboard @jkphl @border_none (twitter.com/_/status/534710161286639616)
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@thels6 Getting #Octopress blog to 0.8 IndieMark (http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieMark) was easy :) Not sure how to generate h-entry easily. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/534711867575660544)
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@pfefferle @dangillmor sorry for the late reply. do you still have problems getting/sending webmentions? can you provide some more infos @indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/534723027511283715)
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@swissspidy @defries @japh Looking at the source code, it seems to be this plugin: https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention-for-comments (twitter.com/_/status/534731291808514048)
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@swissspidy @defries @japh The IndieWeb plugin installs a couple of plugins defined here: https://github.com/indieweb/wordpress-indieweb/blob/master/indieweb.php (twitter.com/_/status/534731479658807296)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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tgbrun snarfed: Are you available for a brid.gy question?
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snarfed tgbrun: sure!
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tgbrun I had brid.gy working for both Facebook and twitter, and non when someone responds to a facebook post, that I syndicated from my blog, the 'likes' aren
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snarfed huh, ok
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snarfed looking
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tgbrun aren't coming back to the blog. see any article or note on www.tombruning.com
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snarfed looks like it sent some fb likes three weeks ago, https://www.brid.gy/facebook/100000286723538
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snarfed so this is since then?
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snarfed tgbrun: ah, it's probably because your facebook posts aren't public
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snarfed e.g. the fb post for http://www.tombruning.com/archives/535 is https://www.facebook.com/tgbruning/posts/872817966071086 , which i can't see
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tgbrun Thanks I fixed that and it is working as advertised. Sorry for my error.
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snarfed np!
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tantek.com edited /advocacy (+8) "re-order example problems, preferring ux, design; linky linky" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /user_experience (+29) "r" (view diff)
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tantek looks like Twitter needs JS to work for their "Favorite" buttons to work
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tantek I kinda don't want to enable Twitter JS just for favorite buttons (which should just be buttons that do an HTTP POST)
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tantek and would rather put in the extra work of creating "like/favorite" posts on my own site, and have Falcon POSSE those favorites to Twitter instead.
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snarfed indielikes++
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Loqi indielikes has 1 karma
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snarfed feel free to use bridgy publish as a stepping stone for the actual twitter api call, of course
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@t @AaronGustafson #longevity is only one of many #indieweb #principles http://indiewebcamp.com/principles And POSSE plus ... http://tantek.com/2014/322/t1/longevity-indieweb-principles-posse-lockss (twitter.com/_/status/534747600390721537)
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tantek another awesome effect of NoScript - No ugly Disqus comments to look at
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GWG tantek: I was thinking about this last night in terms of principles. Is simplicity a principle? I think it is important that the tools you build lower the time and effort it takes to add content.
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GWG This was when aaronpk was commenting on not wanting to make the effort to do a more involved manual POSSE.
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kylewm simplicity of maintenance is also important, possibly that should go under longevity
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GWG Is it maintenance simplicity, or simplicity of use?
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GWG It also could fall under UX
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tantek GWG, simplicity is part of design/UX - that's correct
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tantek kylewm - you're right too, it affects longevity
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tantek but the point is, in both those cases, simplicity is a means, not an ends
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tantek hence it's not an explicit principle in and of itself
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tantek but rather a technique for implementing many other principles
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GWG I think that too many people though, including myself, complicate things.
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GWG It's one of the things I admire about Bridgy. It is complex, but using it doesn't have to be.
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bear I think this will be of interest to the Indieweb folks -- https://letsencrypt.org/2014/11/18/announcing-lets-encrypt.html
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@davidmead What do we own? My reply @AaronGustafson... http://davidjohnmead.com/2014/11/18/what-do-we-own-a-reply/ /cc @tantek @adactio #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/534758216668688384)
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rascul bear this letsencrypt thing looks good
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bear my only concern is the part where it seems to use it you have to have your server configured by their tool
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tantek_ good morning #indiewebcamp - this is your ~15min heads-up that the W3C Sociwl WG telcon starts at 10:00 PST - in #social on irc.w3.org
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tantek agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-11-18
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aaronpk oh wow ran out of twilio money on the indiewebcamp sms number
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aaronpk not a lot of usage, mostly just the $1/mo that the number itself costs
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bnvk heh
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gRegor` Forgot there was IWC Online this past weekend. How did that go?
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GWG gRegor`: Did you watch?
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gRegor` No, that's why I'm asking :)
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gRegor` I saw there's a video, but don't have a spare 3 hours currently
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GWG There are two
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GWG Well, it went well for a first effort. Lots of interesting talk
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gRegor` Good. Any cool demos?
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GWG gRegor`: Most of the accomplishments were small. ben_thatmustbeme made some minor improvements to his Micropub, I rewrote my comments plugin, and aaronpk wrote notes from our Micropub discussion
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ben_thatmustbeme i think the micropub discussion and such were the best things to come out of it all
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aaronpk i'm pretty happy with the progress
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GWG I agree with that. Although I think thedod is a bit gung ho, I did enjoy the security discussion.
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aaronpk I couldn't help myself. Had to manually posse a reply to that email thread
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ben_thatmustbeme he admitted several times he was from the anonymity world
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/11/18/1/
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: Yes. I was talking about in comparison to most people here. But, I still want that microformats designation about privacy as a building block.
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ben_thatmustbeme certainly, I had looked at that some time ago, as soon as you start private messaging and particularly the server-server communication it becomes pretty important
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ben_thatmustbeme should ask tantek for his imput on that
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GWG He's spent a lot of time thinking about this sort of thing.
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gRegor` I'll have to read the logs from Saturday
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gRegor` Er, Sunday. Whenever it was :)
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aaronpk you should watch the video. it includes cats.
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Loqi fo sho
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ben_thatmustbeme Cat*
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ben_thatmustbeme as far as I know, there was only 1
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ben_thatmustbeme and a dog
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ben_thatmustbeme actually I don't know if Pause was with me when we were live streaming
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ben_thatmustbeme so far i've gotten my thoughts organized to 3 main types of posts text, file, and link. and then everything falls under those
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: am busy in social wg telcon. please ask after 11:15am :)
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tantek (PST)
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ben_thatmustbeme will do
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: in the mean time, take a look at https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Twitter_API and see what you think of what functionality it might be interesting to add to micropub. cc: aaronpk
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ben_thatmustbeme huh, a lot of that would be excellent to add
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tantek question is, what of it would be interesting to you personally on your site
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aaronpk i think a lot of it can be encompassed with a more generic mechanism to add/remove things from lists
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aaronpk will try to write this up
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ben_thatmustbeme contact list management is something i've been itching to work on, i'd love to use that mainly, also direct messaging, don't care about the post format, just send a message to aaronparaki.com and here is the content of the message
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kylewm !tell tantek it looks like there is a temporary version of https://mobile.twitter.com/home that works with NoScript
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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ben_thatmustbeme hadn't thought about doing contacts through micropub, but it would certainly be useful
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk, i'm thinking micropub will quickly be turning into a full read/write api, not just write as were its origins
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aaronpk agreed
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aaronpk that was always the intent, just had to start somewhere :)
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ben_thatmustbeme we might want to think about some of the implications that will create, ?q= will get cluttered very quickly is my worry
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ben_thatmustbeme oh definitely, I love it idea of it, so simple to use
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ben_thatmustbeme i still think json is the way to go over URL encoding, especially if we start doing the autocomplete stuff
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aaronpk maybe for responses
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ben_thatmustbeme it doubles the return size of arrays
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ben_thatmustbeme oh yeah, for responses i'm talking about
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ben_thatmustbeme actually I can't say it doubles, I think its actually much worse than that when you start to add structure
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aaronpk yeah but honestly a few extra bytes is not a dealbreaker
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aaronpk i mean even a super large response that could be 2kb is not gonna kill things if it's 6kb
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aaronpk and mostly we're gonna be talking about responses in the <1kb range
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ben_thatmustbeme so long as we keep structure low, i'd agree. If we start returning a full contact list with data, then its going to get ugly
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aaronpk that's what html is for :)
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aaronpk if we're returning data that goes in an h-card, why not just return an h-card
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tantek right
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Loqi tantek: kylewm left you a message 11 minutes ago: it looks like there is a temporary version of https://mobile.twitter.com/home that works with NoScript
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ben_thatmustbeme hah. honestly, if I were able to poll my MP api from JS directly, I would care more. I have to go through a call to the local server anyway though, so Its already going through PHP
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ben_thatmustbeme huh, good point
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aaronpk i think JS-only apps are mostly a myth at this point. turns out the real world is more complicated than that
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ben_thatmustbeme what is the real world?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "the real world" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=the+real+world
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ben_thatmustbeme hehe
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tantek kylewm: " JavaScript must be enabled to use Twitter Mobile. Please enable JavaScript in your browser and try again. "
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tantek https://mobile.twitter.com/signup/nojs
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aaronpk heads up! https://github.com/blog/1925-github-pages-legacy-ip-brownout
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kylewm tantek: you don't have a "Or, you can go temporarily to this mobile site." link at the bottom of that page?
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aaronpk if you're on Github Pages and using their old IPs, they are returning 404s today
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tantek oops
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kylewm tantek: some things work and some don't, you cann't apparently go to tweet permalinks
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tantek kylewm: that's too bad - that used to work
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tantek aaronpk, I don't see the link from https://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/11/18/1/ to its POSSE copy
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aaronpk oops thx
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tantek "This Post Elsewhere"
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tantek "* View on Google Groups"
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tantek (or something like that)
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tantek patterned after what you have on https://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/11/17/7/ for example
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GWG Also on is a popular option
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aaronpk yeah. just forgot to add it
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tantek GWG - I was copying his existing syntax
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aaronpk i have a few non-twitter/facebook ones on some posts
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tantek aaronpk - awesome! then add your email post and POSSE copy to http://indiewebcamp.com/email#IndieWeb_Examples :)
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aaronpk defaults to "view on groups.google.com" unless I add a mapping of domain to name
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aaronpk like how facebook.com turns into "Facebook"
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aaronparecki.com edited /email (+223) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add myself!" (view diff)
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kylewm is it a little awkward to POSSE to a private mailing list?
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aaronpk oh is it private?
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kylewm yeah, try clicking the link in Private window
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aaronpk so this is an example of why it's important to indicate the audience of posts
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aaronpk nothing in the google groups interface indicates that it's a private group
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tantek kylewm: could you capture that (how to POSSE copies to private mailing list) as an issue in /email ?
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tantek aaronpk, that's also work capturing as an issue on /email - lack of indicating private group / message
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aaronpk so ideally my post would be a private post that anyone in the google group could see
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aaronpk yeah good point. the email also doesn't indicate it's private
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tantek aaronpk - maybe?
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tantek I think it's fine that you post something *publicly* and then also send it to a private mailing list
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tantek but that's where reply-contexts get tricky ;)
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tantek or quoted content
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tantek since presumably those would come from a private source
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aaronpk yeah, couldn't reasonably quote things from it
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tantek hast to run to lunch - but great issues guys!
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tantek really likes seeing the expansion of how to POSSE to email
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Mark87 Loki
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Mark87 Loqi
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@tkadlec Gonna have to play around with @AaronGustafson's Webmentions plugin for Jekyll to see if I can get them on my site. https://github.com/aarongustafson/jekyll-webmention_io (twitter.com/_/status/534820683080290304)
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@tkadlec @aarongustafson @susanjrobertson Nice! Similar to the example here http://webmention.io/#streaming-api ? (twitter.com/_/status/534821539041267712)
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kylewm wow!! this jekyll plugin is huge
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kylewm has a ruby plugin for rendering the comments statically, and a js shim to pull in new ones in real time
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@equivalentideas RT @tkadlec: Gonna have to play around with @AaronGustafson's Webmentions plugin for Jekyll to see if I can get them on my site. https://t.… (twitter.com/_/status/534822920812384256)
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@DamonOehlman Great seeing some fresh thinking for the #indieweb from @substack with hyperboot: https://github.com/substack/hyperboot (twitter.com/_/status/534826695660797952)
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thedod hi
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thedod GWG, did you ever get a webmention from https://dubiousdod.org/indie/2014/11/dshanske-can-now-send-an-rsvp-via-wordpress ? debugging :)
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thedod GWG, my bad. tried again and there's something in my error log. brb :)
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bret kylewm: which one?
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bret kylewm: which plugin?
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kylewm bret: https://github.com/aarongustafson/jekyll-webmention_io
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bret ack sorry for the double ping
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bret cool!
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thedod ah. I see it *did* post to GWG's blog: https://david.shanske.com/notes/2014/11/16/attending-homebrew-website-club-first-time/#comment-319
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thedod but I'm getting weird 404
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thedod makes a bin
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thedod mystery solved: Sending webmentions to these urls https://david.shanske.com/notes/2014/11/16/attending-homebrew-website-club-first-time/ ; https://david.shanske.com/ ; http://kylewm.withknown.com/2014/homebrew-website-club-19-november-2014
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thedod https://david.shanske.com/ was the one that failed. other 2 succeeded
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@adactio @murtaugh @AaronGustafson @susanjrobertson @tkadlec Ooh, webmention support on A List Apart would be *great*! (twitter.com/_/status/534832815813431299)
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GWG I need a WordPress person.
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GWG Any of them about?
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@LifeHealthDiary .@joyclee ^jg On our platform they are not. :) #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/534843185135382529)
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aaronpk well this could be interesting https://letsencrypt.org/
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gRegor` Yeah. I wonder how much easier it will make it.
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aaronpk supposedly super easy
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gRegor` Particularly curious about the "automated" part
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aaronpk loks like they're developing a protocol for requesting/signing certs from their cert authority
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aaronpk https://github.com/letsencrypt/acme-spec
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aaronpk so the web server can just do it automatically instead of requiring the person to go through some horrible web UI and figure out what boxes to check
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gRegor` "certificate management software running on web servers" like how easy is it for the average person to get their software set up on the server?
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aaronpk and the other part is automating the installation of it in apache/nginx, which sounds like they'll modify config files for you
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gRegor` still reading
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aaronpk https://letsencrypt.org/howitworks/technology/
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aaronpk clever
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aaronpk i'm very glad someone that isn't me is working on this
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gRegor` The agent maintaining the private key on the server could be a problem. Not trying to shoot it down; overall it does sound pretty good.
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tantek sitting in the Gigaom Roadmap conf, lots of amazing presentations, geo/animated charts etc. from https://twitter.com/twitterdata
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tantek location tagging your tweets (e.g. POSSE copies), means they show up in more stats
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tantek and I just confirmed that the "Follow" button on a profile page does not function without JS
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tantek cc: aaronpk ^^^
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aaronpk cool!
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aaronpk I think my server adds geo data to tweets on posse copies
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aaronpk yep!
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