#indiewebcamp 2014-11-19

2014-11-19 UTC
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Loqi [mention] https://dubiousdod.org/indie/2014/11/this-codepen-http-codepen-io-thedod-pen-yylgyo-left linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/comments-presentation#Current_Indiewebcamp_Practices (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://dubiousdod.org/indie/2014/11/this-codepen-http-codepen-io-thedod-pen-yylgyo-left linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Online (webmention)
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GWG Linode has told me they think I am subject to an XML-RPC vulnerability and should shut it off.
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GWG It seems a shame.
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aaronpk wordpress?
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GWG aaronpk: Yes.
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GWG I can't turn it off. It would turn off Webmentions
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aaronpk you're handling webmentions via xmlrpc?
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GWG aaronpk: No. But pfefferle's webmention plugin hooks into the ping functionality
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kylewm GWG: you have to turn pingbacks on in order to receive webmentions, right?
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kylewm feel like I've seen people perplexed by that
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aaronpk maybe you could just delete the xmlrpc.php file?
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tantek GWG - can you provide a citation for the vulnerability?
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tantek what is XML-RPC?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "XML-RPC" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=XML-RPC
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tantek ^^^ perhaps stub that page with a citation to the vulnerability?
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GWG The vulnerability is to DDOS. Wouldn't Webmention also be vulnerable to that?
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GWG kylewm: correct.
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aaronpk are they talking about a pingback-specific issue?
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GWG aaronpk: Linode has no data on it
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GWG "We have received a report of malicious activity originating from your Linode. It's likely that your Linode is being used to pass on pingbacks via the XML RPC Wordpress exploit."
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aaronpk ohh
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GWG I asked if they had additional details...they said no.
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GWG So...they have a report, but can't tell me where it came from
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GWG Or what it said
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aaronpk i got one of those once about my mail server
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aaronpk email--
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Loqi email has -14 karma
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GWG WordPress took out the button to disable XML-RPC
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GWG My solution was to rate limit it
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GWG Requests for XML RPC are limited.
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kylewm seems like enabling pingbacks is a big ask for a lot of wordpress users
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GWG kylewm: I'm not sure it is strictly necessary. I may talk to pfefferle about options.
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GWG It uses the settings to accept pings.
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@AaronGustafson I wrote a little about my process for adding #webmentions to @jekyllrb/#Octopress sites: http://aaron-gustafson.com/notebook/2014/enabling-webmentions-in-jekyll/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/534866325160878080)
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@StandardsSherpa RT @AaronGustafson: I wrote a little about my process for adding #webmentions to @jekyllrb/#Octopress sites: http://aaron-gustafson.com/notebook/2014/enabling-webmentions-in-jekyll/ #indiew… (twitter.com/_/status/534866361739378689)
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bret https://www.flickr.com/photos/psd/2918889380/sizes/o/ Is the posse on the lion thing in the upper left hand corner the same POSSE as indieweb?
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tantek whoa bret - nice find. but AFAIK no relation.
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bret notice the gates out of hell are "publishers of permalinks" lol
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bret oauth, openid and microformats are near the shoulders of giants, just above the lost cave of webdav
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bret found here http://blog.whatfettle.com/2008/10/06/the-uri-is-the-thing/
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kylewm gotta be the same POSSE doesn't it
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kylewm sorry it's from 2008???
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tantek first thing I did was check the date ;)
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kylewm the posse was foretold
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tantek lol
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bret behold, the holy prophetic illustration!
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@TheRealDod RT @AaronGustafson: I wrote a little about my process for adding #webmentions to @jekyllrb/#Octopress sites: http://aaron-gustafson.com/notebook/2014/enabling-webmentions-in-jekyll/ #indiew… (twitter.com/_/status/534872806501396481)
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@beckenhaub RT @AaronGustafson: I wrote a little about my process for adding #webmentions to @jekyllrb/#Octopress sites: http://aaron-gustafson.com/notebook/2014/enabling-webmentions-in-jekyll/ #indiew… (twitter.com/_/status/534874370897092608)
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snarfed hi aaronpk!
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snarfed i just noticed webmention.io doesn't handle u-url
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snarfed i just noticed webmention.io doesn't handle u-url
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snarfed want me to file an issue?
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kylewm snarfed++ good catch
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Loqi snarfed has 53 karma
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snarfed filed https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.io/issues/23
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tantek this is either additional incentive (or counter-incentive) to geo tag your (POSSE)'d tweets: https://twitter.com/t/status/534878164808646656
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@t #gigaomlive: fascinating @TwitterData visualizations. geo-tagging your (POSSE) tweets = included in more graphics. (ttk.me t4ZC2) (twitter.com/_/status/534878164808646656)
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tantek even just latlong
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tantek what is geo-tagging?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "geo-tagging" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=geo-tagging
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@williamvdodson RT @AaronGustafson: I wrote a little about my process for adding #webmentions to @jekyllrb/#Octopress sites: http://aaron-gustafson.com/notebook/2014/enabling-webmentions-in-jekyll/ #indiew… (twitter.com/_/status/534878739759632384)
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tantek it's making me consider per-note geo-tagging
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tantek what is location?
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Loqi location is a key aspect of checkin and event posts http://indiewebcamp.com/location
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tantek heh
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tantek that's not a great dfn for location
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GWG tantek: You available about that thing from earlier?
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tantek not really unless you have a quick question
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GWG It can wait.
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tantek can you produce a URL for it?
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GWG tantek: I added something to private posts.
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tantek cool!
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GWG But this is in need of more development
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GWG I may start some suggestions. Not sure what has been done before.
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+1064) "/* Itches */ geo-taged notes" (view diff)
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@AaronGustafson @schnarfed @sil @adamprocter webmentions.io pulls from Bridgy ;-) (twitter.com/_/status/534884325234581504)
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@sil @adamprocter @AaronGustafson I need to hat up a bit on webmentions first, mind, especially since I must do penance for inventing pingback ;) (twitter.com/_/status/534888325338120192)
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mlncn-agaric https://thegrid.io/#9498 has some indiewebcamp-ish talking points: "stop building Zuckerberg's site and build your own" — but presumably not any implementation of standards like webmention. My co-worker-owner at Agaric is acquainted with one of the people involved — and there's always twitter — if people think they should be introduced to doing it right
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@adactioLinks Enabling Webmentions in Jekyll, From the Notebook of Aaron Gustafson http://aaron-gustafson.com/notebook/2014/enabling-webmentions-in-jekyll/ (twitter.com/_/status/534899984752476161)
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gRegor` snarfed: Did anything change recently with bridy's TLS? Was running into internal errors trying to publish and realized it's bc curl wasn't verifying the cert. Maybe (probably) something changed on my server, but it was working for a while without problems.
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gRegor` Adding SSL_VERIFYPEER: false makes it work, of course. Just curious why it worked before at all. I thought most PHP cURL installs didn't handle any certs unless you pointed it to a local cert file
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snarfed gRegor`: hey, thanks for the nudge. yeah, i renewed the cert
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snarfed i think i'm seeing the same problem with php clients
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snarfed i thought the new cert was fine, but i guess maybe not. i'll debug
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snarfed gRegor`: in the meantime, if you do need to verify a cert, brid-gy.appspot.com will work
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gRegor` cert verification isn't a big concern for me with bridgy at the moment
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snarfed gRegor`: understood. my wordpress stopped working w/bridgy publish due to this too, and i didn't know why until now. thanks for answering that riddle for me :P
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@techlifeweb Screenshots for the @withknown team to help explain my Facebook connection problem #indieweb http://techlifeweb.com/social/?p=606 (twitter.com/_/status/534935835221581824)
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snarfed !tell gRegor` bridgy ssl cert is fixed. thanks again for the report!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@aaronpk @sil haha! Webmention is just pingback w/o XMLRPC. You might be interested in Vouch tho: http://indiewebcamp.com/vouch (http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/11/18/2/webmention) (twitter.com/_/status/534955269692739584)
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Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/11/18/2/webmention linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/vouch (webmention)
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aaronpk sad that meatspace doesn't have permalinks
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GWG aaronpk: Oh? What do you want to bookmark?
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aaronpk https://indiewebcat.com/notes/2014/11/18/3/
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+358) "/* Geo-tagged Notes */ reduce implementation to apparent minimum, note possible improvements" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+80) "/* Geo-tagged Notes */ cite motivation" (view diff)
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@xtof_fr La 1ère #startup #indieweb : À quoi çá ressemble de bosser chez @withknown par @erinjo et @benwerd ? > http://stream.withknown.com/2014/were-the-known-team-and-this-is-how-we-work (twitter.com/_/status/534969432888455168)
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@GuidoMattioni @sundancelabs A sweet novel set in #SavannahGA by an #Italian #IndieAuth MulticulturalFictionWin2013 GlobalEBookAwds http://amzn.to/11i4Ltn (twitter.com/_/status/534988639324086274)
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michielbdejong does anybody know how to run Known behind an ssl offloader? It seems to require some special configuration.
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tantek.com edited /User:Tantek.com (+194) "/* working on */ capture some wikifying I need to do" (view diff)
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notizblog.org edited /WordPress (+158) "added "Webmentions for Comments" plugin" (view diff)
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rime1 using javascript library for a slideshow that zooms and pans. it works perfectly when i test it but after uploading it, the slideshow works but the zooming and panning does not. it is just static images. anyone know why?
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/aaronpk/534955269692739584/535011106088288256 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/vouch (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/aaronpk/534955269692739584/535024685613072385 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/vouch (webmention)
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@sonething_news The Web’s Not Dead Yet, As Long As These Indies Abide. http://t.co/2gJ5zRVZX6. #Business #Ello #Facebook #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/535044737208958976)
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@sonething_news The Web’s Not Dead Yet, As Long As These Indies Abide. http://t.co/kPX20vZp1p. #AnilDash #Business #Ello #Facebook #IndieWeb #ThinkUp (twitter.com/_/status/535044744796471298)
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@cognosteca RT @AaronGustafson: I wrote a little about my process for adding #webmentions to @jekyllrb/#Octopress sites: http://aaron-gustafson.com/notebook/2014/enabling-webmentions-in-jekyll/ #indiew… (twitter.com/_/status/535047177383710720)
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@thels6 My #Octopress blog is now up to IndieMark Level 1 :) Maybe you should try to support it too? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/535055909429710849)
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Carol_ hi
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Carol_ anybody here?
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Erkan_Yilmaz Carol_ why?
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Carol_ are you familiar with tethering from mobile phone?
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Carol_ I have problem windows started saying since last Sunday dns server not reposting
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Carol_ can fix it
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Carol_ any help?
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@PulsePointBuzz Sammy Austin from MoneySuperMarket presents @ACI_RTASummit how they embraced programmatic in-house to #ownyourdata #RTALondon (twitter.com/_/status/535073730964496384)
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@ACI_RTASummit RT @PulsePointBuzz: Sammy Austin from MoneySuperMarket presents @ACI_RTASummit how they embraced programmatic in-house to #ownyourdata #RTA… (twitter.com/_/status/535075623568670720)
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thedod_ Erkan_Yilmaz, fancy meeting you here :)
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thedod_ So far I got no webmentions. Wonder whether it's a technical or popularity problem :)
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Erkan_Yilmaz hi thedod_ :-)
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thedod_ https://dubiousdod.org/indie/
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thedod_ I'm quite new at this indie business, so not sure the thing works
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jonnybarnes whats the difference between `for (i = 0; i < divs.length; ++i)` and `for (i = 0; i < divs.length; i++)`?
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thedod_ there isn't any, because there's no expression like f(++i) that actually uses the value
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thedod_ f(++i) gets 1 more than f(i++)
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jenmontes.com edited /diversity (+336) "/* See also */ Added links to diversity reports for Google, Facebook, Apple, and Microsoft" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme thedod_ I tried to send you a webmention
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ben_thatmustbeme do you accept webmentions or only through that form?
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jonnybarnes well i++ seems to work
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thedod_ I
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thedod_ I'm supposed to accept them
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jonnybarnes its just I saw ++i on a css-tricks snippet
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thedod_ I'll check the logs
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thedod_ thanks, ben_thatmust
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ben_thatmustbeme no problem
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ben_thatmustbeme jonnybarnes ++i and i++ are only different when you are using the return value
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ben_thatmustbeme a = 1;
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ben_thatmustbeme i = 1
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ben_thatmustbeme a = i++
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pfefferle GWG hey hey… have you tried the comment_class changes I commited yesterday?
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ben_thatmustbeme now a = 1, i = 2
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ben_thatmustbeme a = ++i
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jonnybarnes ahhhh, thanks ben_thatmustbeme
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ben_thatmustbeme and and I would both increment in that second one
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ben_thatmustbeme s/and and I/a and i/
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: a and i would both increment in that second one
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ben_thatmustbeme also, thedod_ it worked on my end in so far that you went in to my whitelist. i just found that the code to make that entry public isn't working though
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Erkan_Yilmaz thedod_ I don't use the webmentions yet
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thedod_ Erkan_Yilmaz, I've installed kylewm's redwind (although my branches became spaghetti this weekend and I need to carefully catchup with upstream :) )
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thedod_ https://github.com/kylewm/redwind
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ben_thatmustbeme I really need to clean up the install for Postly
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ben_thatmustbeme or rather, have an install process for it
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kylewm thedod_: I rolled back a lot of the weird changes that I made over the weekend, so hopefully it won't be difficult to merge back up :)
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kylewm and I sent you a webmention here https://kylewm.com/2014/11/this-looks-really-nice-i-like-the-idea-to-use-mustache
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kylewm it seems I am not handling transparency in avatars well
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Loqi [mention] https://dubiousdod.org/indie/2014/11/hiddenid linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuth (webmention)
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GWG Pfefferle, didn't realize you had committed. Will look.
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thedod_ I think best is if I catchup with upstream first, and only then try to debug webmentions :)
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pfefferle GWG thanks
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thedod_ Got a backlog at work, so I'll probably get to it in the weekend
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thedod_ hey! my webmention went through \o/. There was something weird. Had to try/except something.
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thedod_ makes a bin
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thedod_ kylewm, https://zerobin.net/?6f7b0060f8ac4fa4#g4pI9iomsdW78c5ptxTL2ODrMbba0AVDEmveqTWv8JY=
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thedod_ This kept failing (timeout) on my site
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ben_thatmustbeme thedod_ it worked when i manually entered the link btw
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thedod_ (wp, supports pingback)
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ben_thatmustbeme so the form method is good
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thedod_ but we don't have any confirmation re "normal" webmention, like if you do this on your own site
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ben_thatmustbeme no, i should have sent that mention by the usual method, and it did not seem to go through
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kylewm thedod_: it kind of looks like the rqworker process isn't running https://dubiousdod.org/indie/webmention/status/7697acc1-cebb-4f3a-b3e2-dfc44cbc3b6a
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kylewm that would explain why the form method works as well
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thedod_ anyway, re that diff I sent, the URL was https://zzzen.com/hiddenid/?p=74#comment-30 so maybe the code mangled it
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thedod_ kylewm, ouch!
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thedod_ (re the status)
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kylewm although it must be running you are able to send wm's
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thedod_ ok. I'll pull your master from scratch and work from it
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thedod_ dumps the log
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kylewm oh, i hope you don't have to do that :/
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thedod_ kylewm, pull upstream or dump the logs? :)
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kylewm start from scratch
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thedod_ no biggie. I was in a rush to have a working site for Sunday,
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thedod_ and got all my branches botched
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thedod_ https://github.com/thedod/redwind/network looks like the BKK skytrain map now :)
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kylewm haha
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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bret thedod_: hey.. the install link is dead here: https://dubiousdod.org
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parzzix So, would you be more indie using known pro or hosting on a VPS? Neither is in your full control?
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
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tantek hey thedod_ congrats on getting RedWind up & running - and congrats to kylewm on a 2nd deployment of RedWind!
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tantek thedod_++
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Loqi thedod has 2 karma
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tantek kylewm++
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Loqi parzzix: kylewm left you a message on 10/21 at 1:31pm: as much as I would probably enjoy hearing the Bad Voltage guys talk indieweb, the prospect kind of terrifies me :)
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Loqi kylewm has 85 karma
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tantek RedWind++
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Loqi dude
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tantek :D
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kylewm parzzix: re the above, @sil tweeted about adding webmentions to his Pelican based blog *yesterday*, very exciting
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parzzix kylewm: that is outstanding
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kylewm tantek: thank you! all credit to thedod_, he's done a lot to generalize and 'dekyleify' it
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kylewm parzzix: and to the earlier question, I'd say if you own the domain name and the content, we don't worry too much about who is running the server :)
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parzzix gotcha kylewm
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parzzix So as long as known allows us access to our content..or a way to retrieve it..they really are about the same.
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tantek kylewm: indeed, the 2nd deployment of any open source project is a big accomplishment.
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tantek RedWind++
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tantek what is Bad Voltage?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Bad Voltage" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Bad+Voltage
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Loqi RedWind has 1 karma
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parzzix tantek: a podcast
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pdurbin tantek: do you listen to it?
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tantek no I rarely listen to podcasts.
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pdurbin it's ok
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pdurbin not my favorite
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kylewm kind of a lot of dudes making fun of each other
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pdurbin I'd listen to an indieweb podcast.
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@joelgaines Why does someone else get to own and control your medical information? #ownyourdata ^jg (twitter.com/_/status/535117927138476033)
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@LifeHealthDiary Why does someone else get to own and control your medical information? #ownyourdata ^jg (twitter.com/_/status/535117928333852672)
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GWG Did someone say Indiewebcamp podcast?
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parzzix It's pretty entertaining...makes me chuckle a bit
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parzzix bad voltage that is
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tantek parzzix: perhaps start a wiki page for it if you think it has some relevance to the indieweb?
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tantek per Loqi above ^^^
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Loqi is done
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tantek RedWind++
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tantek dang, apparently so.
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ben_thatmustbeme hey tantek, now that you aren't in a conf call. Wanted to hear your thoughts on some way to specify data to intended to be private (for your eyes only, or something)
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ben_thatmustbeme or perhaps who it is intended for
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tantek no I'm on CSSWG telcon now ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme GAH!@#$!
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: do you have a statement of the issue/question captured on a wiki page e.g. as part of a #Issues section or #FAQ section?
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tantek perhaps start there?
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme.. our time will come.
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ben_thatmustbeme will do
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tantek so you can simply reference that URL instead of a restating the problem in IRC?
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gRegor` Morning-ish, #indiewebcamp!
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Loqi gRegor`: snarfed left you a message 11 hours, 29 minutes ago: bridgy ssl cert is fixed. thanks again for the report!
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ben_thatmustbeme actually, there is a section, but i'll update with other points
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: exactly! or split into multiple smaller questions/issues even!
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GWG Pfefferle, looked at the commit on my phone. Looks good, will deploy
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pfefferle GWG I will update the directory versions any time soon
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme, private posts page?
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GWG Pfefferle, I work from the repository. Also I may have more pull requests
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pfefferle GWG ok
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /indieweb-messaging (+410) "Started issues section" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme indiewebcamp.com/private_posts#Partial_Page_Privacy
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ben_thatmustbeme http://indiewebcamp.com/indieweb-messaging#Denoting_Privacy
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ben_thatmustbeme though they kind of hit toward the same issue, i think those two cases are very different
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ben_thatmustbeme but could be solved in the same way
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jonnybarnes I like: http://ispgpusableyet.pathbreaking.net/
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tantek what is private messaging?
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Loqi http://indiewebcamp.com/private_messaging
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: ^^^ hmm - fix dfn maybe?
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tantek what is private?
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Loqi private posts refer to posts or portions of posts which are private to either the author or to a limited audience chosen by the author http://indiewebcamp.com/private
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tantek and linkify that too? ^^^
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reedstrm jonnybarnes: is that a clever way to say you think privacy can only be protected via encryption?
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jonnybarnes I find PGP difficult to use, so I found it a little funny
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Loqi [mention] http://gregorlove.com/notes/2014/11/19/1/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-11-19-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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@gRegorLove @pitchdesign We won't be at Native Foods, but will you be able to make it to Homebrew Website Club tonight? :] http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-11-19-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/535125256550100993)
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gRegor` Hah. Le sigh.
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gRegor` Venue fell through for HWC tonight.
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GWG gRegor: I have space in my venue
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gRegor` . . .
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gRegor` What is TARDIS?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "TARDIS" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=TARDIS
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/gRegorLove/535125256550100993/535127384266006528 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-11-19-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/gRegorLove/535125256550100993/535126761529671680 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-11-19-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2014-11-19-homebrew-website-club (+12) "/* Where */ Chicago venue fell through; TBD" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/gRegorLove/535125256550100993/535126582256349184 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-11-19-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/gRegorLove/535125256550100993/535126155507294208 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-11-19-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/gRegorLove/535125256550100993/535126241675083776 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-11-19-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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thedod_ kylewm, seems like the new code wants different db schema (like post.location). How do I migrate a "legacy" db? :)
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tantek backs away slowly.
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thedod_ :)
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aaronpk lol
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ben_thatmustbeme haha tantek
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kylewm thedod_: run python migrations/20141111-fold-up-locations.py
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kylewm
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kylewm :)
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thedod_ thanks
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tantek lalalala I'm not listening lalalala
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thedod_ kylewm, pymysql.err.ProgrammingError: (1146, "Table 'redwind1.Location' doesn't exist")
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Loqi [mention] https://dubiousdod.org/indie/2014/11/like-of-tantek-backs-away-slowly linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-11-19/line/1416421453351 (webmention)
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aaronpk nice
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aaronpk can I like that like?
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /private_messaging (-5) "redirect to private_posts instead of indie-messaging" (view diff)
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thedod_ BTW, we're doing all this on my mysql at home. Later on, I need to do this on *sqlite* on the live site (don't ask)
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aaronpk backs away slowly
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tantek quits and restarts IRC client to clear scrollback.
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tantek nothing like fresh clean empty scrollback :)
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@cmdln The Web’s Not Dead Yet, As Long As These Indies Abide http://www.wired.com/2014/11/webs-dead-yet-long-indies-abide/ via @WIRED // the @indiewebcamp folks certainly give me hope (twitter.com/_/status/535140491617398784)
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tantek ok that's not bad: The “indie web” is a loose concept more or less centered on the idea that the internet should mean flatter, less centralized, more inclusive forms of participation, not new hierarchies.
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tantek do any of the sites mentioned support *any* aspect IndieWeb? ThinkUp, The Toast, MLKSHK, Metafilter, NewsBlur?
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tantek what is ThinkUp?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "ThinkUp" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=ThinkUp
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tantek what is The Toast?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "The Toast" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=The+Toast
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tantek what is MLKSHK?
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Loqi mlkshk is an image sharing silo http://indiewebcamp.com/mlkshk
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tantek what is Metafilter?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Metafilter" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Metafilter
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tantek what is NewsBlur?
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Loqi Newsblur is a traditional feed reader that aimed to replicate and replace Google Reader http://indiewebcamp.com/newsblur
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tantek does that article merit a response?
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, so i'm trying to update indieweb-messaging to the latest protocol, but honestly, I can't seem to find anywhere that the protocol flow itself for indieauth
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: try http://indiewebcamp.com/Category:IndieAuth
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aaronpk it's not actually written as a complete spec yet, but I documented several different use cases: http://indiewebcamp.com/login-brainstorming
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tantek should we perhaps accept a looser definition for "indie web" the way the WIRED article defines it? (essentially a semi-obvious generic use of both the adjective "indie" and the noun "web") and then a more specific dfn for "IndieWeb" as in relating specifically to this community?
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aaronpk that sounds reasonable
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ben_thatmustbeme i think Quill's setup was the only way i would have been able to build it
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tantek upside is, then "indie web" includes more things, people, efforts, however loosely aligned (seems like a good thing, bigger tent and all)
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tantek and perhaps provides a stream of folks to recruit to actually ownyourdata and other /principles
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aaronpk add to here? http://indiewebcamp.com/style-guide
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: specs are hard. let's go build stuff.
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tantek plus popularizing "indie web" only sends people our way - since that's what Google shows for "indie web"
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tantek aaronpk, indeed, specs *are* hard, which is why I often get stuck writing them more than coding :/
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tantek re: Google results: https://www.google.com/search?q=indie+web first page is pretty much all about indiewebcamp, except for the "in the news" box which is ephemeral anyway.
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tantek what is the indie web?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "the indie web" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=the+indie+web
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tantek aaronpk: does it make sense for Loqi to include the leading "the" in such queries? Or should Loqi drop the leading "the" article the way it drops the leading "a" or "an" article?
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Loqi grins profusely
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tantek ^^^ clearly Loqi thinks I have a point.
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aaronpk yeah I think "the" should be removed as well
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@ryanrockets Long live the #indieweb! @ThinkUp, @TheToast, @mlkshk, @metafilter, and @NewsBlur offering the @GoodWebBundle for $96 http://www.wired.com/2014/11/webs-dead-yet-long-indies-abide/ (twitter.com/_/status/535143585566310400)
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aaronpk done
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aaronpk what is the indie web?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "indie web" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=indie+web
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tantek yay!
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Loqi giggles
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tantek heh
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tantek also - I'd say https://goodwebbundle.com/ qualifies as a /business-model
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tantek what is a business-model?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "business-model" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=business-model
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tantek wat
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aaronparecki.com created /business-model (+28) "r" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /indieweb-messaging (+130) "some quick updates to page" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk, soo on my todo list, document something of a spec for how indieauth works right now at least. then rewrite indieauth.com with a competitor :P
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aaronpk excellent
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tantek.com edited /business-models (+259) "dfn, Site Membership" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme s/competitor/alternative/
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: aaronpk, soo on my todo list, document something of a spec for how indieauth works right now at least. then rewrite indieauth.com with a alternative :P
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aaronpk remember indieauth.com has two roles, so you can actually replicate just one of the roles and still have a totally viable service
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tantek.com edited /business-models (+1) "/" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk, sounds like indieauth.com needs a roles diagram ;)
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aaronpk i started to split that out here http://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth.com
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tantek wow the aggregators section in business-models looks dumb - as in, it just lists a bunch of free things
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tantek what am I missing?
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/business-models#Aggregators
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aaronpk three of the things listed there are public companies
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aaronpk just because a business does not charge end users does not mean it's not a business
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tantek yeah - and their business is advertising, not aggregating, which we specifically say to avoid in #Avoiding
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpke, doesn't it sort of have a 3rd role as token generator/validator?
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tantek business-models should be clustered by how they make their money, not by what they are
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tantek what is their income stream?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "their income stream" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=their+income+stream
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tantek lol
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aaronpk hm, well I think having them grouped by what they are is useful, what page would that be better on then?
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tantek every other page? like /silos ?
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thedod_ kylewm, so what do I do with that migration? it also cries about the location table being missing (and I don't see such a thing at models.py). I'm lost
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tantek the point of business models page are the *business models*
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aaronpk a lot of the sections actually have full pages there anyway
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aaronpk dns, web hosting, aggregators, search,
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tantek aggregators is only a business model in as much as people *pay* for aggregation
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tantek otherwise it is not a business model
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tantek or rather, advertising is a business model
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tantek we should be very upfront about that sort of thing on the business models page
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aaronpk maybe we can reorganize the page based on models, and have a short section at the bottom that links to the main pages like dns, hosting, etc
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Loqi definitely
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tantek how do the companies/services listed actually make money?
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tantek in that list aaronpk, dns, web hosting are already business models
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tantek the only problem is how the "free" stuff (impled ad revenue) stuff snuck in
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aaronpk dns and web hosting are the same model. the model is charging website owners for services
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tantek they're different services, therefore different models
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tantek they even charge differently (typically annually vs. monthly)
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aaronpk no, the model is the relationship between payer and payee, and they're the same
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tantek no, it's not useful to just generalize everything as "paid service"
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tantek the model is the combination of what you build / what service you offer *and* how people pay for it
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tantek makes much more sense from page usability perspective to list "things you can build and charge for"
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tantek regardless of whether that charge is one-time, monthly, annual etc.
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aaronpk charging people money is only one model
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tantek charging people money is the definition of business
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aaronpk yes but the people you're charging aren't always the people who buy domains
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tantek if you're not charging people money, you're doing community/charity/hobby work
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ben_thatmustbeme donation based business models exist that doesn't involve 'Charging people money'
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tantek doesn't matter *who* you're charging
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tantek we're on the building side
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tantek doesn't matter if the people you're charging don't have their own domains
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tantek the point of business models is, how does an indie web project/effort/service *make money*, not, "how do I charge indieweb people money"
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tantek (or rather, the latter is a strict subset at best)
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aaronpk okay, so i'm not clear on why aggregators can't be in the list then
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tantek *aggregators* can (I'm about to add an example) but NONE of the current aggregators listed qualify
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tantek because NONE of them charge for their service or aggregation
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aaronpk okay. then they can be grouped under a subheader indicating as such
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tantek existing aggregator examples DO NOT have an aggregator business model. they ALL have an *advertising* business model
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ben_thatmustbeme are any of them ad supported
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tantek yes they can be grouped under #Avoid
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ben_thatmustbeme well thats still a business model
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ben_thatmustbeme its just ad-supported business model
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aaronpk how about "Ad-Supported" as a header instead of "Avoid", let people make their own judgment on whether they want to do that
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tantek.com edited /business-models () "(-512) /* Aggregators */ remove free examples (not aggregator business model), and replace with NewsBlur which does charge" (view diff)
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aaronpk aw but newsblur is a reader, not an aggregator
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tantek what is an aggregator?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "aggregator" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=aggregator
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tantek uh
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tantek what is an agregator?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "agregator" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=agregator
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tantek what are aggregators?
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Loqi A feed reader is an application (local or on the web, like the defunkt Google Reader) that subscribes to feeds (typically legacy Atom & RSS) and presents them in an interface for reading http://indiewebcamp.com/aggregators
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tantek there we go
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aaronparecki.com created /aggregator (+24) "r" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk, care to define the difference?
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tantek common usage equates the two
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aaronpk an aggregator has its own public URLs for posts, a feed reader is private to the user
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tantek wat? never heard that definition before or even the idea of distinction!
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aaronpk http://news.indiewebcamp.com is an aggregator because there is no original content on the site
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tantek hmm
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tantek is that like a planet?
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aaronpk http://news.indiewebcamp.com has very few original posts compared to links from other places http://news.indiewebcamp.com/
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tantek what is a planet?
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Loqi http://indiewebcamp.com/planet
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aaronpk a planet is a perfect exmaple of an aggregator
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tantek except that in common discussions about blogs etc., if you say "aggregator" people hear "feed reader"
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aaronpk really?
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aaronpk i don't
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tantek yes
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aaronpk HA apparently I was supposed to set up planet.indiewebcamp.com last year
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aaronpk wikipedia makes no distinction on whether the aggregated content should be public or private https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_aggregator
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aaronpk also holy crap that's quite the list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_feed_aggregators
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tantek alright I'm fine with using "Feed Reader" to label RSS readers etc. instead of aggregator
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bret i think a timeline would work better than a table there
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bret feed reader is appropriate and is independent of the feed type
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tantek bret - "feed reader" does assume/imply *separate feed URL* and *separate reader app from posting*
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tantek so it's kind of a dead end
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bret hrm yeah good point
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tantek so yes, let's continue to refer to that old model as "feed readers", because they deserve that framing
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aaronpk is it just me or does anyone else find the distinction between public URLs vs private readers useful?
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bret at the time, most feed readers have always had some kind of share/response button
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bret old feed readers
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bret they tended to be really limited actions though
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tantek bret - examples?
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tantek.com edited /business-models (+1) "/* Aggregators */ actually only feed readers. no known aggregator business models." (view diff)
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bret google reader had a starred feed iirc
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bret IE when you stared something, it generated a web page with those starred items and their content
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bret feedbin has a star atom feed as well
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bret most all of the new feed readers have a laundry list of services you can post an item to
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aaronpk nascar buttons?
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bret tantek: https://www.dropbox.com/s/j6rquj88gtf6s7k/Screenshot%202014-11-19%2011.22.47.png?dl=0
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bret aaronpk: basically, but you only turn on the ones you want
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bret https://www.dropbox.com/s/jb218ijrb02gomm/Screenshot%202014-11-19%2011.23.35.png?dl=0
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bret example of pinboard bookmarking
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gRegor` tantek: Personally I've always preferred referring to this community as the IndieWebCamp community, and indieweb as a broader, generic term (not capitalized)
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bret example of share menu
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bret https://www.dropbox.com/s/d05f2piigi0i8oo/Screenshot%202014-11-19%2011.23.31.png?dl=0
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gRegor` bret: Yeah, gReader had a star feed
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bret news blur has a social graph you can share items to https://www.dropbox.com/s/pw9sv574sobg7e5/Screenshot%202014-11-19%2011.27.00.png?dl=0
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tantek.com edited /business-models (+1091) "move some to hypothetical" (view diff)
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kylewm thedod_: hey sorry it's giving you problems. the previous version had a location table with latitude, longitude, and a bunch of fields for geocoding (region, county, locality) ... i converted that to a json string and just stuck it in each individual post and venue that has location data associated with it
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tantek what is NewsBlur?
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Loqi Newsblur is a traditional feed reader that aimed to replicate and replace Google Reader http://indiewebcamp.com/newsblur
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tantek bret ^^ add to
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bret kk
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tantek what is Feedbin?
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Loqi Feedbin is a traditional feed reader similar to Google Reader, but offers a much improved and simplified interface compared to Reader http://indiewebcamp.com/feedbin
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bret.io uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:newsblur-share.png]]""
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tantek bret and /feedbin too
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bret ack how do I add a max width
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bret to a file
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gregorlove.com created /ThinkUp (+146) "stub" (view diff)
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aaronpk bret: http://indiewebcamp.com/how_to_edit_this_wiki#How_To_Include_Images_In_Pages
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tantek bret - see some of the /hwc pages
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tantek for how I embedded the images with max-width
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GWG Caught up
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aaronparecki.com created /help (+34) "r" (view diff)
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tantek what is ThinkUp?
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Loqi ThinkUp is a silo that analyzes activity on social networks like Facebook and Twitter http://indiewebcamp.com/ThinkUp
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tantek gRegor`: is ThinkUp really a silo? or is it more of a service that monitors your silo accounts for you?
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gRegor` quoting self: It's a silo for the analytics data, afaik
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tantek what do you "post" to ThinkUp that then gets stored there?
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tantek what is a silo?
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Loqi A silo, or web content hosting silo, in the context of the IndieWeb, is a centralized web site typically owned by a for-profit corporation that stakes some claim to content contributed to it and restricts access in some way (has walls) http://indiewebcamp.com/silo
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gRegor` > I'm a little unclear, actually. I know it started as an open source project you installed on your own site. I did ages ago. They've changed into a paid service model, it appears, though the code is still on GH
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tantek perhaps capture that history in a summary in the definition
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aaronpk I don't think it counts as a silo because the content is generated byt hat service, not contributed from outside
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GWG tantek: To recap, you are correct that the Indieweb version of a gravatar is h-card plus URL. I want to replace gravatar in WordPress with H-Card+URL.
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tantek as in "ThinkUp is …, and previously was … "
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bret.io edited /newsblur (+162) "added sharing" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - agreed, it's not a silo, it's a silo service
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aaronpk it's just a service. it could just as easily monitor posts from your own site.
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tantek and I have no idea what the current ThinkUp is vs. what the open source project used to be
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tantek it seems to keep pivoting
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tantek what is pivoting
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "pivoting" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=pivoting
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mko Regarding an IndieWeb profile photo, you could do something like Gravatar. Specifically, they use a unique hash (specifically the hash of the email address of the user). You could easily do the same with the hash of the user's email or domain. Basically, search for h-card on homepage. If there's a picture available in the h-card, use it. If there's not, check for email and hash it and use your own service (or Gravatar if you like their placeholders).
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mko Then if there's not an email, hash their domain and force the default using the "f=y" so you don't accidentally get someone else's photo.
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tantek what is a pivot
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "pivot" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=pivot
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tantek lol
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aaronpk i think i signed up for the free 14-day trial, logged in once, then forgot to check it again later before my trial was up
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bret.io uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:feedbin-pinboard.png]]""
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mko Wait. ThinkUp costs money now?
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tantek mko - they pivoted ;)
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gRegor` mko: As a service on their site, yes.
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GWG mko: I think you can still host an instance.
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mko Oh. Gotcha.
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gRegor` You can probably still host it. Code is on GH
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GWG I think the pivot is they now offer a hosted service as well as an open source project
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mko That makes sense.
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mko They went the WordPress route. Good for them.
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gRegor` I can find very little info on the site detailing installing it, though.
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tantek GWG - I don't think they do hosted content
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tantek mko - nope - that's wrong
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gRegor` checks thinkup.org
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GWG mko: I think that is a good move.
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tantek wordpress.com actually *hosts* your content
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mko gRegor`: https://www.thinkup.com/docs/contribute/developers/devfromsource.html
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tantek URLs, permalinks, etc.
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mko tantek: I was just referring to their business model.
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GWG tantek: Hosted content no. They are hosting your Thinkup instance, which is a statistics gathering service
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tantek is anyone actually blogging on thinkup.com ?
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tantek does anyone have thinkup installed on their own site and use that to post content to their own site?
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bret.io uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:feedbin-share-services.png]]""
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aaronpk I think mko was referring just to the "open source plus paid service" aspect of wordpress
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mko aaronpk: yes
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gRegor` I have an early early version on a domain. After a year of forgetting to check it, I turned off the cron for it.
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mko gRegor`: https://www.thinkup.com/docs/install/index.html has the full installation details. It's pretty easy.
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gRegor` It probably stopped working anyway
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tantek mko, aaronpk, perhaps add that to: http://indiewebcamp.com/business-models#Hosting_Services ?
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mko Note: "pretty easy" for a Developer. Not for a normal person.
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gRegor` mko: cool
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tantek mko - thinkup is just metrics right?
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mko Not really. It does more than just metrics.
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tantek that didn't seem to be the case when Gina demoed it at XOXO this year
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tantek I know it *used to* do more than metrics
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mko It does things like give you diffs of profile data of your friends, bubbles up content that you wouldn't normally see, etc.
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tantek but now it seems more like a Twitter navel-gazing analysis tool
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aaronpk i'd log in and screenshot it but my trial ran out
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tantek heh
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@AaronVanDerlip I highly recommend this talk. @caseorganic "Rise of the IndieWeb" https://www.youtube.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/535155633549750272)
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aaronpk the screenshots on the home page are good examples tho
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bret.io edited /feedbin (+254) "added feedbig sharing" (view diff)
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mko It is definitely mostly a navel-gazing thing, unless you're actually optimizing your behaviors.
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gRegor` mko: where'd you find the docs links? Can't seem to find them anywhere
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GWG tantek: Stats are a big business.
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mko In the GitHub repo's "CONTRIBUTING.md"
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tantek GWG - pehraps add stats or metrics to a new section on http://indiewebcamp.com/business-models with specific examples?
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gRegor` Ah, gotcha
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tantek if they truly are a "big business" ?
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mko Interestingly, though, the docs were last updated in January of this year, which isn't very reassuring.
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bret i link to my gravatar from my h-card
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bret lol
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mko lol, bret
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bret cause why not
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tantek sounds reasonable. link to the legacy from the current thing.
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tantek just as we use indieauth as our openid provider
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/rsvp/facebook/12802152/714336951990549/100008427732880 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-11-19-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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gRegor` What is gravatar?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "gravatar" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=gravatar
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gRegor` What is avatar?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "avatar" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=avatar
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tantek.com edited /feed_reader (+1051) "dump Other Aggregators to leave for someone else to cleanup, someone thought these were interesting to list on business-models so keeping the list despite the fact that none of them actually make money for charging for aggregation" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - feel free to extract from http://indiewebcamp.com/feed_reader#Other_Aggregators and fork to a different page etc. I don't have a strong opinion on distinguishing, but it sounds like you have a clear idea - so go for it.
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david.shanske.com edited /business-models (+446) (view diff)
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aaronpk okay
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2014-11-19-homebrew-website-club (-13) "/* Where */ Updated Chicago venue" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /business-models (-22) "local ThinkUp link" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /business-models (+133) "/* Statistics and Metrics */ what ThinkUp charges for" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /business-models (-1) "/* Statistics and Metrics */ server" (view diff)
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parzzix Decided to sign on to known pro, looking forward to trying it out.
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bret nice parzzix!
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gRegor` There's a DeLorean in the venue for tonight's Chicago HWC
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gRegor` A Back to the Future one, specifically.
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bret parzzix: what do you like about pro over basic? ( not familiar with the differences)
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tantek.com edited /business-models (+417) "/* Hosting Services */ silos that charge you!" (view diff)
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tantek what is known pro?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "known pro" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=known+pro
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KartikPrabhu yo
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gRegor` yo
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GWG gRegor`: I expect pictures
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KartikPrabhu ha
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gRegor` GWG: Done. http://www.thewormhole.us/
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parzzix pro isn't out yet, but supposed ti have a bunch of new features, like static pages, different silos and the like
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KartikPrabhu haha
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GWG gRegor`: I meant from attendees.
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gregorlove.com created /Known_pro (+19) "r" (view diff)
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GWG Besides, I've already seen a parking lot full of Deloreans
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gRegor` Only if a third person comes. :)
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mko I love Wormhole. gRegor` -- how many people are in Chicago for HWCs?
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gRegor` 2, maybe 3.
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parzzix bret: It will be a little cheaper than what I am paying for VPS right now also...part of my decision.
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tantek.com edited /business-models (+446) "Bundles - documenting more real world business model examples" (view diff)
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bret parzzix: from a time input perspective, i bet it will be
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gRegor` I've not been there. Looking forward to it.
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tantek.com edited /business-models (+77) "/* Bundles */ reference WIRED article" (view diff)
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parzzix bret: that is another plus...I'll let ben and the gang manage the backend.
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bret until docker can remove the complexity of VPS management, I'm personally going to stick with whatever option is the easiest to maintain
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bret so right now, thats gh-pages, PAAS helper services, irc cloud, and feedbin
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tantek what is docker?
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tantek what is Wormhole?
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Loqi Docker is an open platform to manage light-weight LXC based containers http://indiewebcamp.com/Docker
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Wormhole" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Wormhole
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tantek what is LXC?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "LXC" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=LXC
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gRegor` Haha. It's a coffeeshop, tantek.
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tantek what is PAAS?
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gRegor` (Wormhole)
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "PAAS" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=PAAS
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bret wormhole is a coffeeshop in Chi iirc
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michielbdejong lxc = linux containers
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tantek michielbdejong: so "LXC based containers" = linux containers based containers ?
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tantek wat?
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michielbdejong hm :)
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aaronpk haha
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tantek is that like an ATM machine? ;)
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michielbdejong :)
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gRegor` PIN number
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tantek michielbdejong: perhaps fix the dfn of /Docker ?
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michielbdejong OK!
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tantek thanks!
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GWG I want to see, if I get earlier hours on Wednesdays, if I can get an in-person HWC going in NYC.
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GWG I just need to find some people
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michielbdejong here's a second Docker image for Known btw: https://registry.hub.docker.com/u/indiehosters/known/
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bret michielbdejong: do you have any getting started with docker references that you thought were good or particularly helpful?
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michielbdejong bret: yes, let me find it
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bret michielbdejong++
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Loqi michielbdejong has 1 karma
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michielbdejong here's the first Docker image for Known https://registry.hub.docker.com/u/ehdr/known/ and now that I look at it I can't really think why I felt the need to create a second one :)
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tantek if it's worth doing once, it's worth doing twice?
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michielbdejong yeah, it doesn't hurt to have two I guess. although this is a curse in general, when working with Docker. For WordPress, there are hundreds of images.
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michielbdejong I guess it's just very easy to fork and customize them
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tantek is there a tagging site for docker images?
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tantek like an aggregator? ;)
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mko https://registry.hub.docker.com/
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gRegor` Portland having HWC tonight?
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tantek bret ^^^ ?
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michielbdejong yeah, it's the docker registry is the default location to pull images from. but in practice you often find more dockerfiles in github search than in the docker registry
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mko lol
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mko I've never tried searching Github for dockerfiles. That's a good idea.
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michielbdejong ssl error :( https://indieauth.com/auth?me=https%3A%2F%2Fmichielbdejong.com%2F&redirect_uri=http%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2FSpecial%3AIndieAuth%3Freturnto%3D&client_id=http%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com#
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michielbdejong mko: yeah, there are lots. unfortunately, they're about the same quality as the ones in the registry, usually: close, but no cigar
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michielbdejong who runs indieauth? could it be that SNI is not supported?
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aaronpk SNI is supported because my site uses it
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michielbdejong ok
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aaronpk looks like it's not checking the subject alternate name
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aaronpk your cert is issued to blog.michielbdejong.com
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michielbdejong aaah ok
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aaronpk but I do see michielbdejong.com in your cert, so it should be matching it
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michielbdejong yes, it's a startssl cert, you always get 1 subdomain plus the domain root
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aaronpk huh actually it looks the same as mine (also a startssl cert)
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michielbdejong any you do indieauth with the domain root?
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michielbdejong s/any/and
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Loqi michielbdejong meant to say: and you do indieauth with the domain root?
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aaronpk yes
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aaronpk just checked again and it had no problem fetching my site
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aaronpk oh god
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aaronpk it's the same problem GWG has
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aaronpk something causes it to freak out after a "while" and if I restart the app it works fine
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aaronpk this is one of the reasons I prefer php. way easier to avoid bizarre memory leak bugs since there isn't an "app" running the whole time.
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bear didn't we track down an issue with one of the ssl libs recently that had bad timeout behaviour?
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aaronpk yeah and someone filed a bug on it, I forget where that is tho
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snarfed aaronpk: (tangent) huh, really? i don't pay that much attention to modern web dev, but i assumed that was determined by fastcgi/wsgi/etc as much as language or runtime
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aaronpk maybe add a link to http://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth.com with a description of the problem?
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snarfed ie wouldn't fastcgi or wsgi keep the php runtime up between requests?
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bear I think we did - IIRC it was for a ruby lib
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aaronpk snarfed: well in fpm mode the php runtime stays running, so it's possible to have memory leaks
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bear php-fpm keeps them alive if it's configured to do so (or after N uses)
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bear you can tell it to recycle the php session after N uses
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snarfed right, ok. same with similar configs for python, etc
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snarfed so more an architecture thing than a language
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snarfed ...thing
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bear well... ;)
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aaronpk i guess? good luck getting a ruby app to handle a request instantly tho
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aaronpk without the runtime already turned on
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snarfed sure, definitely differences in runtime startup time
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michielbdejong aaronpk: thanks for fixing!
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aaronpk michielbdejong: cool! I think I'm gonna add a cron job to restart the app every hour
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aaronpk that'll hopefully fix for gwg too
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michielbdejong If i use indieauth to log into my own WordPress site, can I then use my own indieauth instance instead of using the central indieauth.com one?
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bear do you use php-fpm aaronpk ?
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michielbdejong I guess it's the relying party who decides which verifier to use?
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aaronpk bear: I've been switching everything to nginx+php-fpm lately. still have a few things hanging around on apache and mod-php
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@evaryont @t could you explain LOCKSS? Didn't find it in indieweb wiki (twitter.com/_/status/535167311272222721)
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aaronpk michielbdejong: the wordpress indieauth plugin uses indieauth.com to handle all the hard parts, so it'll always redirect you there
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bear aaronpk - the config setting you want to enable then is pm.max_requests - the default is 0 which means an instance will stay around forever
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/rsvp/facebook/12802152/714336951990549/1406600 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-11-19-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/t/534747600390721537/535167311272222721 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/principles (webmention)
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bear another I like is slowlog - to watch for php sessions that are bogged down
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michielbdejong aaronpk: right, but I could fork the plugin, change the URL, and then it would work, right?
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aaronpk yeah sure!
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aaronpk as long as it does the same thing that's documented here https://indieauth.com/developers
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michielbdejong bret: https://www.docker.com/tryit/
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tantek oh FFS.
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tantek what is LOCKSS?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "LOCKSS" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=LOCKSS
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aaronpk what is FFS?
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bret tantek: unfortunately i don't have much time for meetups till the quarter is over
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "FFS" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=FFS
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bret let along organizing
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bret alone*
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bret I will have more time probably by mid december
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bret pinky swear
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bret so unless some of the other recent atendees want to get together
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bret no portland tonight :(
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tantek.com created /LOCKSS (+286) "dfn" (view diff)
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snarfed tantek++ for not replying with an lmgtfy.com link
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Loqi tantek has 123 karma
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tantek.com edited /LOCKSS (+37) "WP" (view diff)
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snarfed (which i probably would have)
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david.shanske.com edited /Events () "(-514) /* Upcoming */" (view diff)
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tantek snarfed - they did specifically say "Didn't find it in indieweb wiki" which I thought was reasonable enough of a passive request ;)
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bret.io created /Wormhole (+108) "Added definition for the Wormhole" (view diff)
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tantek uh GWG - hoping that -514 becomes a +514 in your next edit (better to edit the whole page when moving upcoming to past)
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snarfed tantek: i dunno. googling it is a reasonable expectation too. the iwc wiki doesn't need to reproduce all information :P
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GWG I have an HWC question
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snarfed (but that's proably why i'm not the best first line representative. :P anyway…)
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tantek snarfed - I assumed that before (or after?) they checked the IWC wiki they also googled it
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snarfed tantek: evidently not
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tantek that is, I assumed checking the IWC wiki was a proxy for more work than just googling
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tantek the google results aren't super obvious
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tantek for LOCKSS
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david.shanske.com edited /Events (+516) "/* 2014 */" (view diff)
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tantek except obv wikipedia heh
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GWG It says that HWC is local time.
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GWG But I'm the only local person. So when do I show?
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snarfed tantek: really? very first google result for lockss for me is lockss.org. acronym expansion is even in the search result. both when logged in and in incognito window
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bret.io created /LXC (+210) "Created page with "{{ stub }} <dfn>LXC</dfn> stands for [https://linuxcontainers.org Linux Container], provides lightwheight isolated, environments linux for software stacks like LAMP and is the co..."" (view diff)
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michielbdejong.com edited /Docker (+221) "Fix "LXC containers" phrase which is tautologic, like "ATM machines"" (view diff)
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tantek yay!
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tantek michielbdejong++
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Loqi woot
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michielbdejong what is Docker
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Loqi michielbdejong has 2 karma
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Loqi Docker is an open platform to manage which processes should run on your server (for instance Apache, MySQL, etcetera) http://indiewebcamp.com/Docker
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michielbdejong hm
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bret.io edited /LXC (+1) "english, bret.." (view diff)
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GWG aaronpk: At least I'm not alone anymore
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bret.io edited /LXC (-1) "just clarifying one more time sorry." (view diff)
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GWG Anyone on the HWC question?
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michielbdejong.com edited /Docker (+17) "Improve dfn of Docker" (view diff)
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michielbdejong what is Docker
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Loqi Docker is a collection of tools to manage Linux containers http://indiewebcamp.com/Docker
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michielbdejong GWG: we tried to start a HWC in Lisbon, Portugal, but didn't find many takers so far. Our timezone is UTC. :)
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bret.io edited /Docker (+79) "Reorganized slightly" (view diff)
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michielbdejong Maybe we'll try to connect with the WordPress meetup, which apparently has about 30 people
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bret michielbdejong: all it takes is two people to be a meetup. Start with a friend and advertise, you are bound to get more attendees.
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bret (unless you tried that XD)
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tantek bret++
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Loqi bret has 42 karma
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michielbdejong bret: yes, we tried it, but only two times so far. Lisbon has quite a modest tech scene, most meetups (bitcoin, javascript, whatever) are about 10 people, and usually the same faces. But we'll keep trying! :) (also in Berlin maybe)
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bret bootstrapping a metope takes time
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bret meetup*
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tantek in having frustrations photo-tagging on a silo (because said silo can't seem to reliably serve https), it makes me wonder if a "photo-tag post" makes sense, as a kind of interaction
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aaronpk interesting
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aaronpk that'd be a neat way for other people to be able to tag people in your photos
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tantek an in-reply-to a photo post, with a name/URL of a person (who is presumably in the photo), and optional 2d point or rect or square or polygon?
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tantek and then call Bridgy Publish to POSSE a copy of your "photo tag post" to the silo that has the photo, where Bridgy could do the photo-tagging for you as your post specifies to do.
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tantek presumably the reply-context for a photo-tag post would include the entire photo that you're tagging
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tantek so that your photo-tag post could actually display a name/link of the people-tag, optionally on top of the person in the photo via 2d point/rect
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tantek and even do hover effects
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bear isn't that a variation of a fragmention?
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tantek whcih also makes me thinkg a people-tag post should be able to specify multiple people-tags
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tantek bear - a fragmention is plumbing
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tantek it's not marginalia as it's not in the margin
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JonathanNeal learned he’s a plumber.
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bear sorry, I was typing fast and trying to use "fragmention" as short-hand for a webmention targetting a specific mf2 item within a url
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tantek though a way of specifying a point/rect on an image URL would be interesting
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tantek which server-side image maps do right?
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gRegor` snarfed: What did you update with bridgy's TLS?
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snarfed gRegor`: i originally only used the domain cert, but it also needed the CA's intermediate cert. i added that
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snarfed http://indiewebcamp.com/https#Manage
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gRegor` Ahh, cool
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tantek ah yes - ?x,y as in ?3,9
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tantek per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_map#Server-side_image_map
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snarfed interesting: https://www.humhub.org/
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tantek aaronpk - so yes, I'd like to post people-tag posts on my own site as replies to photo posts on silos
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tantek and right - once we have that figured out
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aaronpk that'd be cool
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tantek anyone could people-tag across the indieweb of photo posts
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aaronpk I would totally do that too
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tantek and the original photo post would simply accumulate all the people-tags via the same webmention receiving mechanisms we use for everything else
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aaronpk tantek: that sounds like it's worth writing up on /photo-tagging !
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tantek is braindumping into IRC as thoughts pop into his head
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aaronpk :)
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tantek of course this brings up the challenge/question of - how do I see all the photos that I'm tagged in?
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aaronpk presumably you'd be tagging the person and link to their home page
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tantek not only is there a need for a people aggregator for people search, but now a people-tags aggregator to see what photos you've been tagged in across the web!
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tantek oh!
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aaronpk so your post would send a webmention to their home page which could recognize it as a tag
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tantek yes! your people-tag post sends webmentions to BOTH the original photo post AND the home page of the person you're tagging
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tantek phew
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tantek ok - still don't need an aggregator for that then ;)
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tantek then when you're people-tagged in something, you get a home page webmention from a people-tag post, and you can keep all those in a list too
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aaronpk but that sort of smart recognition of the semantics of the post is a perfect thing for services like webmention.io, which could give you interfaces for browsing your webmentions not just as a list of most recent, but grouped by "photos i'm tagged in", etc
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aaronpk (of course your site could do it too, but using a service would be the lazy way)
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tantek this enables a sort of SWAT 0.1 where there are FOUR actors
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aaronpk ooh
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aaronpk i see where you're going with this
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tantek A takes photo of B and posts it, *D* is following A so sees the photo and people-tags B in it. C comments on the photo which notifies A, B, and D
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tantek C is presumably also following A
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aaronpk what if C is following B?
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aaronpk and that's how they found the photo, because B was tagged in it
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aaronpk or is that 0.2?
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tantek that might be 0.2
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tantek where you see stuff your friends are passively involved in
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tantek s/friends/followings
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Loqi tantek meant to say: where you see stuff your followings are passively involved in
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tantek in addition to stuff your followings actively post
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aaronpk yeah
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tantek dang why do I keep coming up with new post type ideas faster than I can code them :/
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tantek not just ideas, itches!
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aaronpk srsly
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tantek I blame the silos for being a source of frustration.
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GWG tantek: Poison ivy
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aaronpk and now i'm seriously considering a whole reworking of how i handle content and URLs which is gonna delay all the new stuff
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aaronpk i need to take like 2 weeks off and churn through all this
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bret.io edited /Docker (+104) "/* Indieweb Containers */ Added known docker containers" (view diff)
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GWG I'm going to take a rest for a few. Someone ping me when HWC starts
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bret.io created /PAAS (+419) "stubbed PAAS" (view diff)
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snarfed bret: also http://indiewebcamp.com/web_hosting#Platform_as_Service
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bret snarfed: ahh good catch
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bret.io edited /PAAS (+16) "added links" (view diff)
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tantek does anyone get home page webmention notifications? and have a list of them they can look at? (separate from just a list of all webmentions you've received)
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bret yeh
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bret sort of
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bret http://bret.io/pages/inbox/
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bret (broken)
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bret (sort of)
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snarfed ben_thatmust too. https://ben.thatmustbe.me/#mentions
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snarfed (i don't think any visible right now are homepage mentions, but they do show up there)
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bear my arrives via xmpp alerts from my bot
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snarfed also http://www.kevinmarks.com/
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snarfed kylewm: ruh roh, just fyi, https://kylewm.com/ is 500ing
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snarfed er, disregard ben_thatmust's, looks like his is all wms, not just homepage
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KevinMarks_ I was about to say that I get them
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@LifeHealthDiary MT @aral: Here’s the only acceptable criterion for #IoT & #wearables: Individuals own & control the tech & data. #OwnYourData (twitter.com/_/status/535185827199201280)
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tantek.com edited /style-guide (+32) "See Also wikifying" (view diff)
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tantek that's a legit use of ownyourdata
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tantek KevinMarks_: separate from just a list of all webmentions you've received?
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KevinMarks_ Yes, the embed is per page
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tantek today's rant: sites that are so fragile due to their heavy reliance on JS. Like all major /silos - see also http://htmlcssjavascript.com/web/youre-so-smart-you-turned-javascript-into-xhtml/
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tantek as in - ways we can build better indieweb sites than any silo
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KevinMarks_ Well, my webmentions are js
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tantek do you have a <noscript> fallback with a hyperlink to a page somewhere that renders those webmentions server-side instead?
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KevinMarks_ Realising that SVG follows xml rules has put me off it a bit
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KevinMarks_ Hm, not sure that have that
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tantek SVG is basically *begging* for someone to invent a simpler more robust more minimal more authorable vector graphics format.
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aaronpk not it
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tantek back to person-tag post braindumping
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tantek I'm thinking a single person per person-tag post might actually be ok / accurate, as it is a distinct action that has its own dt-published time that you "do" / "save" it.
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tantek and then the key may be to intelligently cluster such person-tag posts that are in-reply-to the same photo post
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tantek cluster on the display in your site that is
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tantek rather than having each look like a distinct post, you could apply a heuristic of detecting consecutive replies you posted in-reply-to the same original permalink
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tantek and show them as one big compound reply post, with a single reply-context (since they're in-reply-to the same thing)
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aaronpk I already want to do basically that same clustering on http://aaronparecki.com/mentions
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aaronpk instead of showing each incoming "like" as a full entry, I want to cluster them based on the common item that is being liked
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tantek however having each person-tag be its own post makes sense from a webmention sending/receiving perspective too
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tantek on the receiving end - it's perfectly fine (maybe even easier to parses/process/handle) one-person person-tag posts
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tantek each with their own permalink
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aaronpk agreed
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tantek if we're ok with a limited one-person per person-tag post then the syntax is fairly simple
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tantek *a* syntax that is, for consideration
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reedstrm also makes a for easier repudiation/correction: mistags can be corrected individually
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tantek reedstrm: true!
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tantek by changing just that one post and (re)sending a webmention per CRUD
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tantek we already a way of doing in-reply-to, and a pattern for specific interactions: u-*-of
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tantek we already have a way of including tags in a post: p-category
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tantek thus
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tantek an h-entry that has a u-in-reply-to inside that *also* has the class name u-tag-of
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tantek and then inside the h-entry (likely inside the e-content, but not essential), a p-category with the tagname string
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tantek and if the p-category is also an h-card, e.g. "p-category h-card", then it becomes a person-tag
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tantek to tag a person at a specific *point* in a photo, you simply append the server-side-image-map URL syntax to the in-reply-to tag-of URL ?x,y
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aaronpk what if the in reply to URL already has a query string?
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tantek per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_map#Server-side_image_map
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KevinMarks_ Could an hCard be a venue tag too?
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tantek KevinMarks: much more extensibility than that ;)
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KevinMarks_ May need to explicitly distinguish
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tantek KevinMarks: no need
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tantek if it has a name, URL, photo, just process it the same way
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tantek aaronpk - not sure - probably worth exploring alternatives
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KevinMarks_ And assume a venue has an adr or geo?
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tantek especially since alternatives should allow a whole *rect*, not just a point
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tantek KevinMarks: no need
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aaronpk I could see using a fragment for that #x,y
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tantek much extensibility is what you get by combinging "p-category" with *any* h-*
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tantek e.g. you could tag a photo as being *at a geolocation* by "p-category h-geo"
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tantek s/a photo/any post
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Loqi tantek meant to say: e.g. you could tag any post as being *at a geolocation* by "p-category h-geo"
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tantek you could tag any post as having been taken at an event by "p-category h-event"
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tantek s/taken/posted
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Loqi tantek meant to say: you could tag any post as having been posted at an event by "p-category h-event"
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tantek for photos or any other kind of post
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tantek you could tag any post, like a photo, as having a specific *product* in it by "p-category h-product", and coordinates for the product in the photo
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tantek I think this might just solve the arbitrary object annotated with another type of object that the w3c annotation folks are (over)thinking about.
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tantek as this works for people-tagging others' photo posts
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tantek it extends trivially to anything-tagging others' anything posts
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aaronpk and anyone can do it without accounts or signups
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aaronpk i can tag your stuff and you can choose whether to accept it
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tantek right - it builds on all the indieweb building blocks
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tantek webmentions - you choose whether to accept them or not from anybody or not
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tantek or require vouches or not
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tantek you could have vouched people-tags
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aaronpk I like it
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tantek you could even allow only people-tags from A of person B, if there's a vouch from person/site B to A!
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tantek you could even use this to tag your own posts
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tantek after the fact
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tantek instead of feeling pressured to get it all "right" when you initially post
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tantek like location, people, hashtags etc.
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aaronpk I recently added an interface for adding tags to my own posts
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tantek just post your content, and append the other stuff later if needed / wanted
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aaronpk I was originally thinking about doing it via micropub
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tantek aaronpk - and of course you can post "just" string tags too
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aaronpk but this would be better because then I could accept tags from other people
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tantek both make sense
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tantek micropub could be used to *update* a post with tags directly embedded in the post
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aaronpk my current implementation is not actually micropub, it's just an internal request
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KevinMarks_ Hm, so you're assuming an entry per tag?
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tantek and you could receive webmentions of tag posts and display them on a post like you display comments/likes/reposts on a post
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tantek KevinMarks - already discussed above along with implications / presentation etc.
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tantek aaronpk - sure. I'm saying that adding tags to micropub *and* receiving webmentions for tag posts both make sense.
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aaronpk adding tags via micropub is more like an "edit" of the post
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aaronpk which is actually what we hashed out more of during indiewebcamp online
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tantek sure - that totally makes sense
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KevinMarks_ So, concretely, how would I change the output of noterlive to tag the people I'm recording?
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KevinMarks_ s/record/quot/
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Loqi KevinMarks_ meant to say: So, concretely, how would I change the output of noterlive to tag the people I'm quoting?
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tantek KevinMarks - could you provide a permalink on your site of an individual noterlive post?
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tantek on an individual post, you would take your existing reference to the person (name & URL), make that a "p-category h-card".
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tantek so then we know that your post is about that person
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tantek and that you're not just mentioning them
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tantek side-effect of solving the general annotate an object with another object problem, which was meant to solve the specific use-case of posting a people-tag post about someone else's photo post :
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tantek the same syntax works for just person-tagging a post directly
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com (+9) "/* Introduction */ testing" (view diff)
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tantek in the post
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tantek (at least without the consideration of location - that's TBD)
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tantek (the "location" within a photo that is)
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tantek though once that's solved, we can also post arbitrary photo notes
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tantek notes attached to points on a photo
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tantek comments attached to points on a photo
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tantek thus on *any* post, if you want to tag the post itself, simply markup your tags for the post with p-category inside the h-entry, e.g. #<span class="p-category">indiewebcamp</span>
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thedod_ ZOMG! https://webmention.io/api/mentions?target=https://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuth and https://webmention.io/api/mentions?target=http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuth are different universes, aaronpk
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aaronpk oh dear
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aaronpk hmm I suppose they should be treated as the same URL even though they are actually different
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tantek thus to add a *person-tag* to any post, make that p-category an h-card as well, and per common usage, a hyperlink to the person's profile/homepage
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thedod_ maybe it should be configurable per site
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tantek <a class="p-category h-card" href="http://personB.example.com/">Person Bee</a> - anywhere inside the h-entry, e.g. even inline in the e-content!
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tantek and presto you've person-tagged your post
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aaronpk yeah that makes sense!
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tantek so if it's a photo post, you've person-tagged your photo post - implying that the photo is *about* the person, thus the person is *in* the photo
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tantek really simple incremental markup addition to any post
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tantek really simple incremental property to parse (and embedded object to look for)
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aaronpk I still wish it was called p-tag instead of p-category given that all the documentation and conversation refers to it as a "tag" instead of a "category"
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tantek "tags" are the fashionable term (years) for what has been called / known as "category" or "subject" for *decades*
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tantek so no - it doesn't make sense to call something (different) p-tag
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kylewm.com edited /events/2014-11-19-homebrew-website-club (+13) "/* RSVP */ I can't make it this week :( Work getting in the way!" (view diff)
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tantek plus p-category already exists from h-card hCard vCard etc.
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GWG tantek: WordPress defines the difference, interestingly enough, as hierarchy.
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GWG A tag lacks a hierarchy, but a category has one.
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aaronpk http://en.support.wordpress.com/posts/categories-vs-tags/
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tantek I bet most uses of category lack any hierarchy as well
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GWG tantek: Won't argue
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tantek sounds like the same way that a wikipedia page name has a hierarchy because it has "/" in the name
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aaronpk oh yeah I remember setting up category hierarchies for wordpress blogs
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aaronpk usually ends up being unnecessary tho
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GWG I use categories sparingly and tags regularly.
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tantek exactly, a bunch more crap to maintain! yay!
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Loqi :D
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GWG Categories are what I use to section my site. Tags are what I use to group subjects.
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aaronpk ok yeah that's it i'm giving up on segmenting my site based on post type
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tantek yeah!
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aaronpk everything is just going to be a "post" from now on, and the post is going to have different attributes
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snarfed aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 608 karma
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aaronpk i'm still going to publish multiple feeds, because I don't want my reply posts in my main feed
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tantek sure that's sensible
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aaronpk but i'll basically be able to put any post into any feed
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tantek nice
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aaronpk I think my next step is to go through all of my existing posts and document what kinds of properties all of them have
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aaronpk or properties I want them to have
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aaronpk like people tags
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tantek aaronpk - so you're going to write an update to http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2012/10/22/1/creating-content-on-the-indie-web#indieweb-posts ?
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tantek note that person-tags are both an aspect of a post, and potentially a post type in and of themselves!
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tantek if they have a "u-in-reply-to u-tag-of" link
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aaronpk right
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aaronpk yep, time for a new version of that post
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aaronpk which means I have the first additional attribute I need to add, an "update-of" property
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gRegor` I'm experimenting with Chatzilla's motif, which unfortunately requires restarting Firefox, thus my joins/parts.
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aaronpk and the opposite, updated, for the 2012 post
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tantek update-of?
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tantek I'd interpret update-of as a literal update - like inline
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tantek like replace this with this
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gRegor` So sorry about that. But when I'm done, this will resemble the log version of the chat and be much better. Wee!
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aaronpk oh yeah, not sure what to call it
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tantek per CRUD
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aaronpk follow-up?
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tantek better
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tantek but question - why does it need explicit markup at all?
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aaronpk i didn't say markup :)
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tantek there has to be a machine use-case for it
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tantek yes you did: "an "update-of" property"
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aaronpk i'm talking about internal for now
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aaronpk internal properties
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tantek property is markup
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aaronpk what is a collection?
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Loqi A collection is a type of post that lists and/or embeds multiple other posts http://indiewebcamp.com/collection
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aaronpk what is a feed?
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Loqi A feed is a collection of posts, typically listed in reverse-chronological order http://indiewebcamp.com/feed
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aaronpk well then
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aaronpk what's the difference?
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tantek curated vs dynamic
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aaronpk earlier I mentioned I will be choosing which feeds various posts go into
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aaronpk one automatic rule is replies don't go into my home page feed
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tantek.com edited /feed (+49) "dynamic, most recent" (view diff)
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aaronpk but I also may choose manually
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tantek feed are expected to change over time
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tantek in a way very different than collections
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aaronpk like if a collection changes, it's because of an explicit "update" action?
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tantek right
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aaronpk okay
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tantek posts fall out of feeds
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tantek whereas usually collections just grow
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tantek very different UX
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tantek even if it sounds like similar plumbing
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tantek that's the better answer
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aaronpk oh interesting point, would you expect to see all posts in a collection without paging?
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aaronpk I expect to be able to navigate through all posts in a feed too, but by paging
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tantek a lot of collections work like that
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tantek in fact, by default, no paging
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tantek and many (most?) feeds have no paging at all
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tantek just most recent n
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tantek.com edited /collection (+390) "collection explicit chosen, changes, feeds difference" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - not a reasonable expectation - certainly not backed by typical implementation
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tantek where feeds have n posts and that's it. zero pagination
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tantek whereas there is an expectation of being able to get to
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tantek "everything" in a collection
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tantek a feed is expected to just be a most recent things slice
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tantek aaronpk - if you got person-tag replies to a photo post, would you show them as <area> elements on top of the photo?
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tantek e.g. https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/10/13/1/indieweb-latergram
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aaronpk yeah would love to!
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tantek of course that would require a way for the person-tag reply to indicate *where* the <area> element should go on the photo
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tantek like a <span class="p-category h-shape">…</span>
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tantek thinks about h-shape and the aforementioned seemingly unrelated offhand comment he made about a simpler more robust more minimal more authorable vector graphic format. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-11-19/line/1416433462223
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tantek of course the geo world has an idea of a shape of something with a description of what it is right?
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snarfed benwerd: just fyi, http://fatberg.org/ is down :(
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tantek does geojson have that?
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snarfed (top priority! :P)
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benwerd noooooo
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benwerd fatberg
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 1 week ago: how long have you been exclusively posting notes (@-replies, etc.) to your own site instead of Twitter? (add yourself! https://indiewebcamp.com/own_your_data#IndieWeb_Examples ) Or do you still occassionally post a note directly to Twitter not using your own site?
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 6 days ago: might be worth asking this guy what the "hassle" was withknown: https://twitter.com/tante/status/533007857210646528
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Loqi benwerd: mko left you a message on 11/10 at 4:42pm: Are the Known Pro features going to be available to self-hosted instances on GitHub, or does pre-ordering Known Pro get developer access to Known Pro code as well?
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benwerd uh oh
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 1 week ago: how long have you been exclusively posting notes (@-replies, etc.) to your own site instead of Twitter? (add yourself! https://indiewebcamp.com/own_your_data#IndieWeb_Examples ) Or do you still occassionally post a note directly to Twitter not using your own site?
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tantek lol
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 6 days ago: might be worth asking this guy what the "hassle" was withknown: https://twitter.com/tante/status/533007857210646528
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mko Lol.
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tantek well done snarfed
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aaronpk i like that "fatberg is down" is the thing that brought benwerd out
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tantek snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 54 karma
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mko snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 55 karma
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snarfed wait wait benwerd if we have your attention, this is kinda hilarious and even higher priority: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-11-17#t1416269352139
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tantek benwerd, making it to the 1 year anniversary of HWC tonight?
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mko I love that my message for benward was so long ago that it had to use an absolute date instead of a relative date.
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mko And, benwerd, I still am waiting on that answer.
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mko ;)
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benwerd snarfed: oh, we do know about that. It's some teenagers in India. We like their enthusiasm :)
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tantek gets the feeling benwerd is drowing in inbox(es).
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benwerd is drowning in inboxes
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snarfed benwerd++
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Loqi benwerd has 44 karma
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tantek inboxes--
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Loqi inboxes has -1 karma
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tantek oh wait - no need for h-shape - the person-tag post itself can use <area> to do the linking to the person!
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tantek from it's reply-context image!
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tantek <area class="p-category h-card" href="http://personB.example.com" shape="rect" coords="100,100,120,120">
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tantek that's how you shape-tag
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tantek for a "point" you'd simply use 1x1, e.g. coords="100,100,101,101"
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tantek oh I forgot the name
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tantek <area class="p-category h-card" href="http://personB.example.com" alt="Person Bee" shape="rect" coords="100,100,120,120">
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tantek and if you want the person's name to show up as a tool-tip on hover:
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tantek <area class="p-category h-card" href="http://personB.example.com" alt="Person Bee" title="Person Bee" shape="rect" coords="100,100,120,120">
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tantek to leave a note on a photo:
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tantek s/note/comment on a specific rectangle/
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Loqi tantek meant to say: to leave a comment on a specific rectangle on a photo:
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tantek <area class="p-category h-entry" href="http://b.example.com/note-permalink" alt="This spot in the photo is interesting." shape="rect" coords="100,100,120,120">
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tantek but for now - aaronpk - if I manually constructed a person-tag reply to https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/10/13/1/indieweb-latergram in that way - what would it take for you to parse it?
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tantek has made far too much wiki-work for himself in IRC today. Sigh.
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GWG tantek: Think of the benefit to future generations
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