#indiewebcamp 2014-12-19

2014-12-19 UTC
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GWG pwcc: Why use a Custom Post Type? Why not a page?
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pwcc Perhapes any pull request I make around the issue can start as a filter.
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GWG pwcc: Wouldn't it be easier to create a page that maps to each archive?
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pwcc That;s what the custom post type is, effectivly.
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GWG Does it need to be a new post type though?
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pwcc Rather than setting post_type: page, it would be set post_type: exotic_webmention & be hidden from the front end.
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GWG Ok
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GWG As part of the webmention plugin or an optional extension?
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pwcc Not sure you /have/ to register the new post type even, although it's probably polite.
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pwcc Wld need to get feedback on that, in two minds.
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pwcc The spec says all pages, which is why I chucked the issue in there,
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pwcc What are your thoughts as a site owner?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "your thoughts as a site owner" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=your+thoughts+as+a+site+owner
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GWG I've never gotten a webmention to an archive page
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GWG I hadn't thought of it.
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GWG I had gotten one to my domain name
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pwcc GWG it's an interesting idea. Perhapes a question around the spec.
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npdoty.name edited /User:Npdoty.name (+136) "adding my 2015-01-01 commitment" (view diff)
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npdoty now it’s on a wiki page, not just an IRC log, so I have to do it
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pwcc GWG: were you talking about native webmentions in WP earkier this month or was that someone else?
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tantek npdoty - nice step
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tantek npdoty++
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Loqi npdoty has 7 karma
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GWG pwcc: Native as in built into WordPress?
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GWG I had asked if it was worth suggesting at one point.
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GWG Because I hate pingbacks and trackbacks
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pwcc GWG: Cool. Was asking someone about it a couple fo nights back. Along with implementation, they ask questions about what will be the affect of WP 'blessing' these things. Will thy be stuck defining & supporting in the future.
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pwcc The concern is they become sole supporter if others lose interest.
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pwcc For us, site owners, spam would move to WMs
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GWG pwcc: Simple...webmentions replace pingbacks and trackbacks, JSON REST API replaces XMLRPC for posting...thus the XMLRPC can be deprecated from core.
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pwcc GWG: removing XMLRPC won't happen. Really not worth putting forward to WP Core as a proposal.
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pwcc GWG: I know that sounds harsh, but it's the politics of the situation.
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pwcc GWG: I'm new to this, indieweb, how stable would you consider the WM spec.
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pwcc It looks like there is a bit of flux around it, I suspect it would need to be stable for some time before it could be considered for WP core.
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GWG pwcc: I know. What I want and what I think I can get are two different things
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pwcc They way in is to get it as a blessed plugin, that's the propsal that would need to be made on make.wordpress.org
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GWG pwcc: The spec is stable.
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pwcc I think the big push for 4.2 will be the REST API and maybe responsive images. But worth putting forward as an early proposal.
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pwcc Cool.
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GWG pwcc: How would you compare pingbacks and trackbacks to webmentions?
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GWG Other than the transport medium is http?
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pwcc I've discribed them as ping/trackbacks+, in that they support replies, favs, RSVPs, and (I believe) remote editing.
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pwcc Anythign I am missing.
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tantek pwcc - we've been calling that set of things "interactions" or "responses" see indiewebcamp.com/interactions
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npdoty I think the actual WebMention part doesn’t specifically support those things
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tantek preferring a user-centric terminology instead of plumbing-centric technology
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npdoty it just tells you that source page talks about target page
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npdoty like pingback
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tantek whereas pingbacks/trackbacks are both specific plumbing
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npdoty and then the microformatted content of the source page has a lot of flexibility for those features
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tantek npdoty - the diffrence is that webmentions quickly got associated with the higher level of presentation and features built upon it
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tantek even though yes you're right, webmention is also specific plumbing
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tantek npdoty - as is common though, each of those specific plumbing mechanisms tends to bring a level of user functionality / presentation expectation (or lack thereof)
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GWG tantek: So, what would you say if someone suggested deprecating pingbacks and trackbacks in favor of webmentions? What's the argument there?
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tantek webmention is simpler technology, thus easier to implement robustly and interoperably
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pwcc GWG @tantek, Simpler, I liek that :) -- Deprecation of pings, yes, could be an approach - they'd be in core but disabled by default or some thing/
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jjuran tantek, GWG: Wasn't there a vulnerability in blog mentions where an attacker could trick a blog host into sending a GET to an arbitrary victim?
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KartikPrabhu npdoty: read about your microformats based citation thingie from HWC
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KartikPrabhu yes please! tired of using bibtex nonsense
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pwcc Is it worht putting together a page or google doc to work on a proposal?
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npdoty well, I’m still using Bibtex in various places, but it should all be rendered in nice semantic HTML
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KartikPrabhu npdoty: why not just abstract that into a bibtex to mf2 translator and use the mf2 for rendering? that way if I wanted to write a mf2 file directly one coud...
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pwcc jjuran Are you talking about https://indiewebcamp.com/webmentions#DDOS_attack_vector
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KartikPrabhu jjuran: that is an attack vector in any sort of ping no?
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npdoty jjuran, I think we can fix that with X-Forwarded-For headers
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KartikPrabhu tantek: does vouch help in anyway mitigate the DDOS attack stuff?
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npdoty KartikPrabhu, well, I also want to render the citations visually using the Citation Style Language
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npdoty … which is how I ended up working with citeproc
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KartikPrabhu hmm not CSS ok, then I am wishing for something to make HTML based papers
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jjuran One problem is that the rube doesn't check to see whether the attacker is allowed to speak for the victim.
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GWG jjuran: That is an issue regardless of plumbing
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GWG pwcc: I wouldn't mind helping. Not sure the temperature of WordPress core contributors.
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tantek jjuran have you experienced such an attack on your own site?
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tantek pwcc what proposal are you talking about? I'd say use etherpad or wiki - avoid google docs
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jjuran No, it was something I read about.
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tantek jjuran - feel free to add more citations to https://indiewebcamp.com/webmentions#DDOS_attack_vector
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pwcc @tantek - to propose WMs going into WordPress core.
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KartikPrabhu tantek: just like we pre-emptively tried to solve the harrassment problem with vouch, maybe DDOS is also a pre-emptively soluble problem?
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KartikPrabhu because once it becomes a problem it would be big
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pwcc GWG: I've mentioned it to a couple fo the local committers. Very neutral response, I think they want to know advantages.
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GWG KartikPrabhu: But it is a longstanding problem for the type that didn't originate with webmentions
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npdoty maybe we could encourage some WebMention consumer to implement the X-Forwarded-For right now and show that the DDOS is already addressed
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npdoty I had a bug to add that as a MUST to the spec, but I don’t think it’s been acted on
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KartikPrabhu GWG: true. but the same could be said of harrasment and vouch
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GWG pwcc: Wouldn't it be best spun as a reimplementation of a feature that needs to be reexamined?
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GWG Many people have turned off pingbacks and trackbacks because of abuse.
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pwcc KartikPrabhu I use expiring endpoints (24hrs) on my site.
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KartikPrabhu pwcc: yes. that also is a potential solution
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GWG Is the proposal webmentions by themselves, or including DDOS and Vouch protections?
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pwcc GWG that would need to be addressed. If WMs go into WP Core, they instantly become a target for spammers.
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pwcc DDOS, Vouch would need to be decided.
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pwcc I am Mr #indieweb n00b, why I'm asking for blessing of the idea.
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GWG pwcc: I've been here since March and still feel that way
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GWG pwcc: But, do you think later on, they won't be a target? That is a guarantee no matter when it is
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pwcc GWG not sure what you mean? As use increases they'll become a target, having it in core of a large platform just speeds up the process.
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GWG pwcc: As use increases, they become a target. But, assuming a delay, what would you use the delay to do?
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KartikPrabhu if webmentions are accepted into WP and a lot of users adopt it then there is no doubt it will be a spam and DDOS target
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GWG What action would make it better?
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GWG KartikPrabhu: How would you make it more ready to be a target?
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pwcc GWG: Ah I see what you mean.
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pwcc Not sure what to do, baking in a solution would help. Could work on a proposal for WP while sepcing up the solution.
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pwcc BTW, I am saying WP because of my background. Could be any platform.
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GWG pwcc: I'm biased. I like it
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GWG But, it comes down to...problem now or problem later
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GWG Either way, problem
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GWG So, what is the argument for waiting to propose? Propose doesn't mean anything other than exploring an idea.
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GWG And that means new people looking at it, asking questions, and thinking about it
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tantek the difference between spam and DDOS abuse is that nearly *everyone* using WP experiences spam, and very few experience the DDOS problem that's been mentioned in practice
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tantek worry about the problems that actually occur, more than the theoretical or rarely occuring ones
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tantek pwcc - btw - add your image to indiewebcamp.com/irc-people and it'll show up in logs!
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tantek pwcc - btw - before webmentions, I'd say easier / less risky changes to core would include updating it to support microformats2 by default
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GWG tantek: microformats2 is a theme, not a core issue, isn't it?
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GWG So, that would be proposing it for the next default theme, as well as popular theme frameworks
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tantek GWG - not sure - from my understanding the old WP microformats implementation used both core and themes - and that led to fragility
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GWG Like _s
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tantek thus I'd say it's a core issue if you want it done right
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GWG But, what is the case for mf2? What is the enhancement?
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tantek GWG - see all the Why sections for things like interactions, reply-context etc.
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GWG tantek: Without webmentions, the plumbing for that is pingbacks, I suppose.
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tantek GWG - in the case of reply-context - no plumbing is needed at all
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tantek the point is, if you want your posts to show up more nicely in others' reply contexts, you should markup your posts with microformats2
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@xtof_fr [Podcast 1:21] L'IndieWeb sur Working Draft > https://huffduffer.com/xtof/197367 w/ @adactio #indiewebcamp #buildingblocks .. http://xtof.withknown.com/2014/podcast-121-lindieweb-sur-working-draft-xtof197367-w-adactio-indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/545764004866424834)
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GWG tantek: Let's say pwcc and I work on a proposal, would you proof as an experienced proposal writer?
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tantek I'll happily review / give feedback, though I wouldn't call myself an experienced proposal writer :)
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tantek GWG - here's the why section you're looking for: https://indiewebcamp.com/h-entry#Why
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GWG tantek: I see many draft specifications that credit you.
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GWG You are an experienced something.
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GWG Thus your feedback is always valued.
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tantek thus the proposal in particular is to add h-entry for all posts by default in wordpress core, with h-card markup for the author of each post
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GWG pwcc: Can I pick your brain?
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kylewm aaronpk: looks like someone already started adding a signature to willnorris's imageproxy thing https://github.com/teodor-pripoae/imageproxy/commit/32a0fd790aa8a10ffe1f6d69326096cf1896efa4
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kylewm whoa and it is apparently owned by Google
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tantek kylewm: what exactly is owned by Google?
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ben_thatmust tantek, i think he was talking about this https://github.com/teodor-pripoae/imageproxy/blob/32a0fd790aa8a10ffe1f6d69326096cf1896efa4/imageproxy.go
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ben_thatmust "// Copyright 2013 Google Inc. All rights reserved."
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pwcc GWG: sure pick away. Sorry for delay, had to skip away for pre-christmas boozy lunch.
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pwcc @tanteck, thanks - will add my images
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kylewm tantek: ben_thatmust: specifically https://github.com/teodor-pripoae/imageproxy/commit/32a0fd790aa8a10ffe1f6d69326096cf1896efa4#commitcomment-8685264
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ben_thatmust oh i see, it didn't spot that point
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ben_thatmust "Also, because the code is still technically owned by Google, you'll have to sign a contributors license agreement (kind of a drag, but we require it). That can happen now or later when you send the pull request."
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kylewm is it dumb that that makes me not want to use it?
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ben_thatmust makes me not want to use it either
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GWG pwcc: Are you familiar with WordPress post formats?
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peterwilson.cc edited /IRC_People (+68) "/* Nicknames */ add avatar for pwcc" (view diff)
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pwcc GWG: I am.
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Loqi [mention] Christophe Ducamp commented '#Contact (Brigitte Bardot - w/ Serge Gainsbourg et Paco Rabanne, 1968) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SE_K7SSDKg Pensée de la nuit a...' on a post that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/contact (http://xtof.withknown.com/2014/contact-brigitte-bardot---w-serge-gainsbourg-et-paco-rabanne)
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GWG pwcc: Are you familiar with the Indieweb Taxonomy plugin?
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pwcc GWG: The replies, repost, etc. I have it installed but don't use it much.
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pwcc GWG: are you wanting to add the indieweb tax to post formats?
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GWG Actually, I want to replace one with the other
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GWG I'm thinking of giving up
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pwcc !tell @tantk re: mf2 in WordPress, there are a few classes generated by core that need mf2 support added. Otherwise mostly themes. I'll familiarise myself with both & write a plugin.
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KartikPrabhu pwcc you seem to have misspelled tantek in there ^
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pwcc GWG: it's not possible, there aren't any filters to change post formats.
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pwcc KartikPrabhu: thanks - wondered why I wasn't getting any bot love
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pwcc !tell @tantek re: mf2 in WordPress, there are a few classes generated by core that need mf2 support added. Otherwise mostly themes. I'll familiarise myself with the core classes & mf2 and write a plugin.
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GWG pwcc: I don't want to change them.
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GWG pwcc: Post Formats are a taxonomy.
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GWG pwcc: Post 'Kinds' is a taxonomy. What if I just add in Article, Note, etc. and disable post formats entirely? I do a hybrid right now
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pwcc GWG: Do you mean add article, notes etc to the kind tax?
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pwcc GWG: Could work by disabling post-formats & using the 'kind_verb' filter in the indie-tax plugin
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GWG pwcc: You think it shouldn't be merged into the plugin itself?
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pwcc GWG: Could be. I'm in two minds about whether they're different. A note could be a reply or a repost maybe.
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GWG A note has no context.
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pwcc what are notes
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Loqi A note is a post that is typically short unstructured* plain text, written & posted quickly, that has its own permalink page https://indiewebcamp.com/notes
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GWG What are articles?
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Loqi An article is a kind of post that typically has more structure than a simple note https://indiewebcamp.com/articles
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GWG What are replies?
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Loqi A comment is a kind of post that is in reply to some other post, that makes little or no sense without reading or at least knowing the context of the source post https://indiewebcamp.com/replies
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pwcc GWG: am looking at somethign like this http://tantek.com/2014/345/t1/windy-rainy-practice-run-next-race -- looks like a reply note
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KartikPrabhu as a wordpress outsider might I comment on the fore going discussion? the good thing about WP is that it is very general and people can use it in different ways. I don't see the need to "indiewebify" all of WP
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GWG I'm not trying to.
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GWG Is this the post format discussion or the webmention one?
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KartikPrabhu post format
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pwcc Did I mess up the tell command at :44 No Loqi love...
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Loqi who, me?
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KartikPrabhu webmention being an upgrade to pingback I get that one
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KartikPrabhu pwcc yes you did. misspelled tantek and also no @ symbol
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GWG KartikPrabhu: I don't want to replace post formats in core. That's a plugin choice
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KartikPrabhu aah of course. that makes more sense
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KartikPrabhu pwcc: notes need not be replies. a reply can be any post even an article or photo
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pwcc KartikPrabhu: I tried a second time and still no love. Y, I misunderstood GWG's question. Kinds as a plugin
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KartikPrabhu pwcc: example of an article as a reply: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/concurrence-cooperation
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KartikPrabhu pwcc: your reattempt is not in the logs so it might not have made it through
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GWG I want to stop having two competing systems in my installation because one of them is core...but optional core.
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pwcc KartikPrabhu GWG: I'm thinking about whether content can be both a note & a reply for the kinds plugin. Whether Notes/Article are seperate from reply/repost/rsvp
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KartikPrabhu pwcc: yes. things can be both a note and a reply
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GWG That's Multi-Kind Support. That is an option.
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GWG Either way, the question was whether Kinds can do everything I want instead of also having Post Formats?
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pwcc GWG: y, they can.
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GWG Then, I intend to do that
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GWG I have my 2015-01-01 resolution
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GWG That, and waiting for my hover car.
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pwcc GWG: Cool. Looks like mine might be to add mf2 to the WP *_class functions :)
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GWG pwcc: Be sure to send me the link. I'll add my voice
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pwcc GWG: watch https://github.com/peterwilsoncc/wordpress-microformats2
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GWG Done
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@mv_kirk Merci á á @WebEnVert pour la soirée débat, pizzas et #Indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/545843870278246400)
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KartikPrabhu1 tantek: a case for written short URLs https://twitter.com/craigmod/status/545843494225326080 ?
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@craigmod Contemporary Santa's got it tough. /via @malcolmbell https://twitter.com/craigmod/status/545843494225326080/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/545843494225326080)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: hah - check this out: asin.cc/B0032HF60M
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tantek :D
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KartikPrabhu oh dang!
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tantek exactly why I wrote asin.cc
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KartikPrabhu even the amazon URL itself is neater!
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KartikPrabhu why do they insist on putting all the nonsensical query stuff in the final URL!
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tantek here is the base60 shortened printable form too: asin.cc/8aURgA
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KartikPrabhu cool!
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KartikPrabhu man this big websites are training people to ignore URLs as nonsensical!
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tantek asin.cc was my first CASSIS + NewBase60 "test" project
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KartikPrabhu and now we have people suporting browsers hiding URls altogether
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KartikPrabhu <shakes head>
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tantek feel free to reply to craigmod with any of the above ;)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: well here is the reply: https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/545846597867675649 :P
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@kartik_prabhu @craigmod might be easier on Santa if @amazon just showed this URL instead: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0032HF60M (twitter.com/_/status/545846597867675649)
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KartikPrabhu also cced @amazon that'll show them!
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@WebEnVert Vous pouvez retrouver en ligne les slides de la présentation de l'#indieweb : http://loic.mathaud.fr/presentations/2014/presentation-indieweb/ (twitter.com/_/status/545847612776411136)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/545848199424909312
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@kartik_prabhu @craigmod or @t ’s project http://asin.cc/ to make prettier @amazon URLs! (twitter.com/_/status/545848199424909312)
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tantek thanks!
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tantek the site works with or without JS
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tantek and is an example of how to do so using CASSIS
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tantek with JS - all the forms work "live" in the browser
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KartikPrabhu nice! I want to do that with forms... sometime next year :P
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tantek if you disable JS - all the forms still work upon submission, and the same middleware logic is used - but on the server. In CASSIS in both cases.
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KartikPrabhu isomorphic JS it believe it is called.
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tantek CASSIS predates "isomorphic JS"
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tantek and no - technically it's not. It's isomorphic PHPJS
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KartikPrabhu well we all have to use the latest hip-buzzword don't we ;)
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tantek the server is executing the code *as PHP*
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tantek not JS
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KartikPrabhu aah neat!
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tantek that's the point
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KartikPrabhu but you write only one code?
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tantek ASIN.cc is a demonstration of how to do that - write CASSIS code that runs as both JS and PHP.
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tantek correct
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KartikPrabhu very cool
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tantek no cross-compilation step either
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tantek it just "runs"
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KartikPrabhu nice... would like a way to do that with python, even with a compilation step
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KartikPrabhu what is CASSIS?
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Loqi CASSIS is an acronym for Client And Server Scripting Implementation Subset https://indiewebcamp.com/CASSIS
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@t @tieguy by adding favoriting to @Falcon #indieweb publishing. ThinkUp only does some silo stats/analytics; not a CMS. (ttk.me t4Zi1) (twitter.com/_/status/545854054103265281)
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-12-17-homebrew-website-club (+238) "/* Notes */ SF what are you shipping 2015-01-01" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-12-17-homebrew-website-club (+162) "/* Photos */ add SF photo" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: any suggestions for a response-to endpoint that lists all the responses to a particular URL?
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KartikPrabhu will so same thing as original-of but with replies, reposts and such and list all possible posts
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Loqi [mention] xtof posted 'Installé sans encombre « Dinah » la mise á jour 4.1 de WordPress sur cette branche fantôme. Rassurant de constater que tout semble fonctionn...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress (http://christopheducamp.com/b/2014-12-19/ecriture-sans-distraction-merci-dinah/)
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@almereyda @dig_geo_com @vpicavet @PirminKalberer #IndieWeb #webmention + #brid.gy could help federating twitter comments back to your site. (twitter.com/_/status/545890709388394496)
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GWG Good morning, all
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pfefferle GWG hey hey
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GWG pfefferle, petermolnar, you available?
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petermolnar hey
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pfefferle sure
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GWG I was discussing this yesterday, but I think I figured out what I want to do, and I wanted to poll more WordPress users for ideas
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GWG The Indieweb Taxonomy plugin. I want to have the taxonomy replace Post Formats, instead of me trying to do both. Which means I'd have to add an Article and Note term to it.
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GWG It sort of is a post format alternative already, I might as well go full out.
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petermolnar it makes sense
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pfefferle hmmm
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GWG Other than theme support, I can't think of a downside.
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petermolnar to be honest, the post format itself does not always make any sense
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GWG The Post Format is also, in reality...a taxonomy
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petermolnar ( there are a lot of functions in WP that should not be part of core and a lot that are missing imho )
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petermolnar GWG I know they are technically taxonimies but they are not treated like
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pfefferle is it important to use a custom-<object> in general? shouldn’t it be enough to add some custom input fields?
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GWG petermolnar: Only by functions I can reproduce.
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pfefferle sort of what I started here https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-reply-context
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GWG pfefferle: It allows for archives by type.
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pfefferle nevertheless I would start with implementing the reply-context for all posts (including custom post-types)
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GWG pfefferle: Isn't the plugin as it exists now that?
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pfefferle so it is up to the user if he uses the context on his ”žclassic“ post or a speciel ”žreply“
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GWG pfefferle: I don't want to add a custom post type. This is purely taxonomy I'm trying
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pfefferle it only supports replys… perhaps we can add likes/attends/...
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GWG I thought about going back to custom post types, my original plan...but I think just a taxonomy with the built-in post type works
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petermolnar I'm using post meta for this kind of data since I don't have any intentions to list by response type
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petermolnar the taxonomy make sense if that's what you're aiming for
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GWG petermolnar: http://alexking.org/blog/2011/08/29/wordpress-post-meta-taxonomies
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GWG petermolnar: http://alexking.org/blog/2014/07/09/custom-taxonomy-as-post-meta
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petermolnar for the first entry: meta_id, post_id and meta_key is indexed and I cannot think of any situation to search by meta_value
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petermolnar so in case I do not want to list posts by being replies/favs/etc, there is absolutely no need for taxonomy from my point of view
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GWG Okay.
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petermolnar but others might think in different structures, displaying their site and it's contents in a different way
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petermolnar :)
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GWG I'm just saying, if the two can be used interchangeably, it is an option to do so.
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petermolnar I'm too lazy to move away from WP, but I'm trying to make the db as flat as possible which is one of the reasons for me to keep it like this :)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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GWG But, there is nothing wrong with my approach inherently. Just not your preference
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petermolnar yes, that is what I stated at the beginning :)
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petermolnar by the way, if xmlrpc.php is blocked from nginx as location ~* xmlrpc\.php { deny all; } than how the hell I'm still getting pingback spam?!
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GWG No idea
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GWG Although people blocking XMLRPC is a good case for webmentions on some level
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petermolnar oh WordPress... apparently, $post_url/trackback/ accepts trackback spam. on EVERY post url.
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Loqi [mention] http://pilchernet.com linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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GWG Petermolnar, it is high time Wordpress revisited pingback amd trackback.
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petermolnar I'm hosting a site of a friend of mine; 1 week results ~3k spam caught by Akismet
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petermolnar I'm still getting tired of those hitting the db
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GWG Try a plugin called Simple Trackback Validation
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petermolnar I don't want them to reach PHP level; this will do in nginx: location ~* /trackback(/?)$ { access_log /var/log/nginx/blocked.log blocked; deny all; }
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petermolnar but I do agree that it's time for WordPress to start adopting webmentions
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petermolnar and I do believe the webmentions + the semantic linkbacks plugin is core-ready
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GWG Petermolnar, all a matter of spin.
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GWG Semantic Linkbacks would mesh nicely because it cleans up messy pingbacks.
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GWG Webmentions would replace the plumbing of pingbacks.
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@petermolnar @WordPress how about using #webmentions instead of pingback and trackback? Even Stuart Langridge had changed: http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2014/11/29/enabling-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/545961288883785728)
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GWG petermolnar: pwcc was working on a proposal of some sort.
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petermolnar hopefully WordPress listens
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petermolnar I mean to the happenings around, not to me :D
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GWG Well, I think we have to lay out the case.
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GWG For me, no one has tried to work on pingbacks and trackbacks in WordPress, as a result, they are mostly disabled due to spam targets.
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GWG It is time to propose and put together something to move forward in the area.
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GWG I need to read the Plugin Handbook and Requirements.
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GWG Hmm...4.1 is out
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snarfed GWG: petermolnar: just to provide a counterargument to the WP trackback spam complaints: https://indiewebcamp.com/spam#Comment_Spam
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Loqi snarfed: aaronpk left you a message on 12/17 at 6:35pm: what would happen if I were to tell webmention.io to re-parse all the old webmentions so I can fill in the mf2 data? would I cause you to hit any rate limits?
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Loqi snarfed: pfefferle left you a message 1 day, 1 hour ago: yes and will do :)
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snarfed "Anecdotally, during the month of November 2014, https://snarfed.org/ received 796,990 POSTs to its comment form, wp-comments-post.php, vs just 2139 POSTs to xmlrpc.php. Of those, 9 comments and 3 trackbacks were ham…So there was at least ~400x more comment form spam than pingback/trackback spam."
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petermolnar snarfed: interesting, thought I traced the ones I have back to /trackback/
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GWG snarfed: But, there are multiple vectors.
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snarfed petermolnar: good data point! i'd be curious how your numbers compare
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snarfed GWG: agreed, there's definitely lots of WP spam in general! (even if it's mostly comment spam)
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GWG snarfed: How are you counting?
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GWG The source?
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snarfed GWG: http posts
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GWG Oh. So, server logs
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snarfed i'm still not entirely convinced WP spam is a *problem* though. akismet and other filters are really damn good. so if we have a lot, but the vast vast majority - i think 99.998% for me - is caught and handled invisibly, i'd argue the problem is largely solved for most people
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petermolnar holy crap, grep -r for wp-comments-post.php o.O
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petermolnar it's an attack vector and a nasty one, considering how easy to use it as a ddos entry point
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GWG So, what is the protection for it?
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GWG Unrelated note...
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GWG https://github.com/Automattic/_s/issues/668
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petermolnar I'd believe POST from comment form should only be allowed from the serving servers(s)
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petermolnar wouldn't it?
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GWG petermolnar: How would WordPress implement that?
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petermolnar good question, I'm not relying on WordPress only for this
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petermolnar I'm testing an nginx approach at the moment
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GWG Exactly
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snarfed sorry to keep raining on the parade here…but personally, i think ddos is even less of a problem for WP (much less) than spam
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snarfed we (WP users) at least all get spam
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petermolnar so what? there's always a webserver in front of WP, isn't there?
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snarfed how often have we been ddosed? most of us, i expect never
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GWG petermolnar: Post on it, if you do, I might add it to my nginx set up.
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GWG snarfed: Have you been a participant?
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snarfed and if the attacker already has a botnet, they don't need anything WP-specific to ddos you
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GWG I've had people try to use my xmlrpc to DDOS someone else
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petermolnar snarfed: ddos is rare and it's targeted; obviously it's not a thing a normal person usually gets
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snarfed ah, ok, then you're thinking of the threat of being an unwilling participant
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petermolnar no, I'm thinking about frighteningly large security holes :)
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GWG snarfed: I am. petermolnar isn't.
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GWG But I did add the following...
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petermolnar xmlrpc is different: that indeed is an issue beeing used as an unwilling attacker
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snarfed petermolnar: i understand the claim, i just think it might be overstated. if you can write to my db or filesystem or make me serve my users arbitrary html/js, that's a security hole
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GWG https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention/issues/38
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snarfed if you can make my server make an HTTP request to another server, i'd call that something smaller than "security hole," especially if there's no amplification
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snarfed if an attacker wants to use WP servers to send N http requests, and it has to send N requests of its own to do that, i'm not sure there's a problem there to be solved
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GWG snarfed: I still don't want my resources used.
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snarfed GWG: if the benefit is so small, most attackers won't use them in the first place
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snarfed but in the rare cases when they do - and it's not referrer spam mistaken as a ddos - then sure, you can definitely prioritize your work however you choose!
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snarfed i'm all for individual choice
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GWG snarfed: So am I. I'm not afraid to express my opinion either.
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snarfed GWG: glad to hear it!
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GWG For example, earlier, I was asking petermolnar about something I was planning. He would rather do it a different way, but neither way is wrong. It is individual choice.
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snarfed in general, yes
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snarfed sometimes one way is clearly better. you're welcome to choose the worse one, but it still helps to advocate for the better one
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GWG snarfed: You want to weigh in?
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snarfed GWG: i usually read the logs, and i do when i have an opinion
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GWG Okay.
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GWG I've decided I'm doing it. So far, no one has talked me out of it. Which I'm not against being talked out of.
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GWG Because I may change my mind later, and would rather change it now if I'm going to, and save myself the trouble.
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@piwigo Need a an idea for a Christmas present? Offer a http://Piwigo.com gift code http://piwigo.com/gift #indieweb #privacy #photo #hosting (twitter.com/_/status/545985584317988865)
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GWG https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/30783
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@dissolve333 Already storing checkins with my #indieweb site. Just need to get it displaying before new years.(btmb.me s/5q) (twitter.com/_/status/545990717974130689)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: no need for a response-to-endpoint. Once you have the original, via original-of or original-post-discovery, all the responses should be there marked up in microformats
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tantek in general, when you think you need an endpoint, if all you're doing is *getting* information, you likely don't need it - just use the HTML+microformats instead
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tantek GWG re: core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/30783 - consider noting that h-entry for posts with h-card for the post author is the key to start with.
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elf-pavlik hi tantek
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elf-pavlik i wonder if with microformats you have clear way to handle multiple profiles/personas of single person
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elf-pavlik i put more detailed information in this email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2014Dec/0086.html
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benwerd could it be as easy as setting up rel="me" links to other profiles?
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elf-pavlik benwerd, do you know of someone here who happens to host multiple profiles for oneself and uses different ones to list oneself in different directories?
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tantek elf-pavlik: benwerd is right, rel=me solves identity consolidation, under the control of the user
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elf-pavlik i understand that http://wwelves.org/perpetual-tripper would have rel="me" to
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elf-pavlik http://wwelves.org/perpetual-tripper/profiles/coder
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elf-pavlik http://wwelves.org/perpetual-tripper/profiles/circus-artist
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tantek right
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elf-pavlik and they will link back with rel="me" to http://wwelves.org/perpetual-tripper
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tantek for the problem of "where someone can simply generate a
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tantek personal profile and use it to create listing in various organizations" - that's what h-card on a personal domain does already.
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elf-pavlik but i need different h-cards, one for coder, one for circus-artist etc.
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tantek and if you want to use multiple profiles for yourself with different descriptions, tags etc., you're already on the right path, multiple URLs, each with their own h-card
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tantek and then whenever you want to use a particular profile, use that URL
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tantek consuming software will use the h-card at that URL for your profile
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elf-pavlik i could also use my *main* URL and other system can propose me usying any of all the others linked with rel="me" similar to IndieAuth
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tantek sure - though I'd say if you used your main URL - then systems should just use - your main URL
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tantek if you want to use a specific profile, you should use that specific URL
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tantek no need to make it any more complicated than that
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elf-pavlik tantek, any chance that link relations used in microformats will have stable URLs to use with RDFa (or other RDF serializations)
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tantek historically they've had stable URLs so I'm not sure what you're asking
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tantek are you asking a hypothetical question instead of an empirical question?
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elf-pavlik if i want to use some prefix
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tantek you shouldn't since prefixes are plumbing
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tantek what's the user feature you want?
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Loqi yea
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elf-pavlik to refer to all microformat terms as let's say mf:h-card mf:h-entry etc
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tantek categorically rejected as plumbing-centric reasoning
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elf-pavlik i want to use microformat terms in RDF
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tantek still stuck on plumbing
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elf-pavlik ok, i want to record my useage of public transport and make it public online
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elf-pavlik using RDF i can very easily convert GTFS using https://github.com/OpenTransport/gtfs-csv2rdf
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tantek currently others are using /checkins to record usage of public transport
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elf-pavlik if i want to stay bit more specific, i have already vocab availalbe for that https://github.com/OpenTransport/vocabulary/blob/master/gtfs/spec.md
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GWG tantek: I was hoping someone would debate on it.
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tantek GWG - why hope for debate? better to make a specific clear request, better chance of success.
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elf-pavlik i need clear records which stops, which lines, what times etc.
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tantek that is, if shipping something in core is your goal. but if discussion is your goal then that's different.
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tantek elf-pavlik: "which stops … what times" - /checkins solves that
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GWG Well, I'm hoping someone will say "Great Idea" and it will be easy to get consensus. But if someone dissents, I intend to be prepared for that too.
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tantek GWG - if your goal is "Great Idea" - the more specific and clear the proposal, the better the chance of understanding and agreement.
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GWG I will not contest that.
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elf-pavlik tantek, how does someone query then to get only my public transport checkins and not public toilets, public baths, public dining halls etc. ?
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tantek for "which lines" - even what bus number for example, I use /checkins for that too
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tantek the /checkins use /venues which are tagged as being in specific categories
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aaronpk you could also publish different feeds with a subset of the checkins
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tantek thus you can query your own /checkins on bus lines or bus stops, or transport in general
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tantek I haven't done such queries myself, but the data is there in my /checkins on my /Foursquare profile and I can download them and query/grep that etc.
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tantek at some point I hope to ownmycheckins on my own domain and POSSE to Foursquare/Swarm but I'm not there yet
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Loqi [mention] David Mead posted 'Moving over to Known 1 min read I have jotted down some notes over at IndieWebCamp about the...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/Known#Transition_from_WordPress (http://blog.davidjohnmead.com/2014/moving-over-to-known)
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tantek a growing number of others however are adding /checkins to their site in the immediate / near term
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tantek elf-pavlik: do you have any personal site user feature shipping goals for 2015-01-01?
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tantek a lot of us have been publicly making commitments of such - https://twitter.com/t/status/545708495736422401
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@t last night at Homebrew Website Club we made 2015-01-01 personal site commitments to each other: https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-12-17 (ttk.me t4Zh1) (twitter.com/_/status/545708495736422401)
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elf-pavlik tantek, i need to adds some skills, so far only have some habits there :S http://wwelves.org/perpetual-tripper/
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tantek elf-pavlik perhaps add that to your "Itches" section on your user page
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tantek who is elf-pavlik?
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tantek.com created /elf-pavlik (+48) "r" (view diff)
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tantek elf-pavlik: see: https://indiewebcamp.com/wikifying#Wikify_yourself
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tantek aside, I took a look at GTFS ( https://github.com/OpenTransport/vocabulary/blob/master/gtfs/spec.md ) and it looks horribly overcomplicated overdesigned - I'd stay far away from that if I were trying to implement any kind of practical user feature in any reasonable amount of time.
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elf-pavlik tantek, interesting example... how can i self host profile i use for indiewebcamp.com ?
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aaronpk tantek: GTFS is unfortunately the standard for cities publishing transit route schedules
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aaronpk it's not going away any time soon. fortunately there's not a lot of reason to consume it unless you're making a routing app.
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tantek aaronpk - do you have example URLs to such transit route schedules?
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tantek aaronpk - it's like all the other one-off overcomplicated XML formats out there - governments might use it, but there's no reason we need to adopt it for our own user features.
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tantek just need some downconverters/simplifiers
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aaronpk I can't even imagine why an individual would publish GTFS, that doesn't make sense
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tantek that is, *if* you have a reason to consume it - which you noted, you likely do not
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tantek agreed
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elf-pavlik aaronpk, i want to interlink from my activities to identifiers used in official GTFS feed
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elf-pavlik i will publish it as http://5stardata.info/
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aaronpk elf-pavlik: what do you expect that to look like when i'm visiting your site?
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aaronpk I can't even find any real web URLs for GTFS data
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elf-pavlik i care less about how it visually looks and more how much analysis someone can do on that data using computer
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tantek aaronpk - so GTFS is not a web thing then
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elf-pavlik nope
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aaronpk here's trimet's developer site, whcih links to their feeds but all require API keys to access http://developer.trimet.org/
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tantek elf-pavlik: if you or anyone else can't view it, then you can't trust the data
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elf-pavlik but people work on bridging this gap https://github.com/OpenTransport
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tantek work with or on overcomplicated formats will eventually be subsumed and superceded by working simpler formats
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elf-pavlik if someone trusts the domain which publishes it or even better i sign it, why 'seeing with human eye' would matter?
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tantek it's the natural evolution of formats, thus it's not worth investing time in obviously overcomplicated formats, except as research into developing a simpler format
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tantek elf-pavlik: because humans see errors in data that machines never do, humans see implicit violations of assumptions that machine are not taught about
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elf-pavlik i look forward to run some analysis on aaronpk public transport usage :)
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tantek it matters not how many people nor how much money is invested in the overcomplicated formats, they will inevitably be obsoleted and replaced
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tantek the primary obvious recent example for this is the billions of dollars invested by numerous large/influential corporations in "XMLing all the things", a fraction of which remains in actual use or deployment
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tantek complexity is its own downfall. no matter the people or $ invested.
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elf-pavlik tantek, maybe we could stick to my quite clear use case? i'll talke a look at /checkins to see how much i could get out of them!
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elf-pavlik aaronpk, how do i tell difference between you walking, riding a bike or driving a car?
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tantek elf-pavlik: perhaps start with adding your "quite clear use case" to an "Itches" section on your User: page per https://indiewebcamp.com/wikifying#Wikify_yourself
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aaronpk right now I have a property called "type" set to "bikeride" which also may be "run" or "drive"
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elf-pavlik tantek, wilco!
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tantek aaronpk - is that the thing that I proposed a single character bit mask for?
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aaronpk tantek: no that was something else
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tantek aaronpk - wasn't it the list of transport types from Apple?
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aaronpk yeah, for individual gps points
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tantek is it not the same problem?
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tantek aaronpk and where did we document it?
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wwelves.org perpetual-tripper edited /User:Wwelves.org_perpetual-tripper (+335) "added public transportation Itch" (view diff)
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aaronpk right now i'm talking about my metrics feed, which is route information
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/metrics
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elf-pavlik aaronpk, i recall you mentioning that you don't provide queries like 'all bikeride run and drive'? i need to crawl you website and then search it?
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aaronpk i've been experimenting with that, currently I have feeds for each type
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/metrics/bikeride
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/metrics/run
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tantek cool
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elf-pavlik cool, do those feeds have some kind of relationship to you? any kind of discovery ?
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aaronpk no, I'm not linking to them anywhere yet, because I haven't figured out where I want those links to be
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elf-pavlik do you have one page that lists all those feeds?
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aaronpk no not yet
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tantek.com edited /location (+333) "Motion section - capture something here" (view diff)
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elf-pavlik to get all your metrics i need to crawl through the pages?
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tantek aaronpk - could you add your notes on GPS point annotation in practice here: https://indiewebcamp.com/location#Motion - I've captured my secondhand information purely from off the top of my head - your information would help!
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aaronpk sure
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tantek elf-pavlik: think of "crawl through pages" as the same as "iterate through API call results" - they are actually the same
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aaronpk elf-pavlik: yes, you can follow the rel=previous links from http://aaronparecki.com/metrics
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elf-pavlik rel="prev"
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tantek HTML is your API etc.
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kylewm elf-pavlik: fyi, I get an ssl_error_bad_cert_domain on https://wwelves.org/perpetual-tripper/
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aaronpk many APIs actually do exactly that as well, with Link headers set to rel=prev
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elf-pavlik kylewm, yes! just moved it to different server (previous kept going offline) and didn't move SSL cert... sorry!
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elf-pavlik aaronpk, tantek: makes sense and easy to script getting all the data!
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kylewm elf-pavlik: no worries, just making sure you knew :)
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elf-pavlik kylewm, thanks! i appreciate that :)
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elf-pavlik aaronpk, for types of food, do you use some common clasification or make your custom categories?
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aaronpk actually I just do free-form text right now
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elf-pavlik ok
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aaronpk i have a type of food or drink, but that's the only thing structured at the moment
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elf-pavlik just to clarify my use case, since i don't use ISO 4217 i plan to publish my economic I/O (consumption, contributions) as linked data and invite everyone to analyse it and develop one's own opinion about my role in society (instead of juding people by often by number of meaningless tokens on their virtual accounts)
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elf-pavlik ISO 4217 currencies
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elf-pavlik so for food i most likely will interlink with http://aims.fao.org/agrovoc etc.
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aaronparecki.com edited /location (+12) "add stationary to motion type, otherwise looks good" (view diff)
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@mshook @withknown @erinjo @benwerd Is there overlap between the indieweb world and the federated wiki world? (twitter.com/_/status/546026705849053185)
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tantek is there a federated wiki world? or just a single project monoculture so far?
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tantek aaronpk - do you have an example URL of location with motion information?
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aaronpk no, I don't currently publish individual location points
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tantek is there a set somewhere? or is it all your bicycling / driving posts?
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aaronpk just in biking/running/driving posts right now, and that only includes the bare minimum route data to draw the line, not the actual raw data
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aaronpk the line is also simplified, not the full set of GPS points
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aaronpk (if you zoom in on some routes with arcs you can kind of see what I mean)
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elf-pavlik tantek & aaronpk thanks for all your feedback and answers to my questions! i got to run but will check logs of next hours later on :)
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tantek elf-pavlik: well done with starting documentation of your personal itches
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tantek looking forward to seeing what you commit to shipping on your personal site by 2015-01-01!
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@elfpavlik RT @t: last night at Homebrew Website Club we made 2015-01-01 personal site commitments to each other: https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-12-17 (ttk.me t4Zh1) (twitter.com/_/status/546029533850517504)
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@kevinmarks “Digital mediation is now widespread enough to make algorithms widely consequential.” - @zeynep http://www.niemanlab.org/2014/12/the-year-we-get-creeped-out-by-algorithms/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/546030291564105730)
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Loqi [bridgy] ☮ elf Pavlik ☮ retweeted a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-12-17 (https://twitter.com/elfpavlik/status/546029533850517504)
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aaronpk hm I am tempted to also publish "likes" as my 2015 commitment
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tantek :D
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aaronpk tantek: I am curious to hear about your publishing flow for likes that you'll start doing!
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kylewm tantek: are you favorites hidden somehow? https://twitter.com/t
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kylewm I have the impression you mark a lot of favs but could not verify!
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kylewm (was looking for a favorites count next to the followers count, like on https://twitter.com/anildash)
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aaronpk I am afraid to start creating a bunch new permalinks before I do the switchover to type-less URLs
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kylewm I'm thinking about writing a tiny service that just accepts CORS javascript requests and sends micropub like-of urls, to get a one click bookmarklet for posting likes
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aaronpk oh good idea
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kylewm wait, hmm, i missed a crucial step :P
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aaronpk i have a bookmarklet for making bookmark posts, but it really just opens up my posting interface with the URL pre-filled
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kylewm still need some way to authorize the JS request, doh
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aaronpk just put a token in the bookmarklet
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kylewm ooooh, so actually it wouldn't need to be a service at all
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kylewm just an endpoint on my site that is ok with CORS
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aaronpk and accepts micropub requests with the token in the post body rather than http header
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aaronpk huh would that really worK? that seems like it would be great
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kylewm I would need to learn more about cross origin stuff to know for sure
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kylewm i guess that is why it would be nice to have it as a separate service, so that there's no danger of leaking session data or w/e
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aaronpk seems like something I could add to Quill pretty easily
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aaronpk I already have a bookmarklet for Quill for posting bookmakrs
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tantek kylewm: append /favorites on anyone's Twitter profile to see theirs
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tantek e.g. https://twitter.com/t/favorites
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tantek ;)
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kylewm tantek: I saw that, but still no count
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tantek.com edited /favorite (+292) "/* Twitter */ Favoriting UI vs. where to find list of favorites" (view diff)
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aaronpk kylewm: yeah i'm putting this in Quill. just tested and it works
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kylewm hahaha
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kylewm aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 634 karma
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aaronpk ok that settles it then
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kylewm aaronpk: I'll help test when you're ready!
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tantek kylewm: that is very odd - everyone else's profile seems to show # of favorites except mine
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aaronpk maybe you have so many that the number doesn't fit
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@aaronpk I'm joining @t in owning my "likes" as my 2015-01-01 #indieweb commitment. Starting Jan 1 I will be posting "like" posts on my website! (twitter.com/_/status/546043159197646848)
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aaronpk now I have to do it
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kylewm tantek: I don't quite remember screenshotting this, but apparently at some time in the past you had a # but it was wrong https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38780898/tantek-favs.png
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tantek kylewm very strange - I've tried view source on my profile vs. others, and it's just missing. everyone else has "favorites" between "followers" and "lists" and I do not.
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aaronpk what's the proper plural of h-entry?
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aaronpk h-entries?
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sandro h-entry blocks?
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sandro (or elements or whatever)
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aaronpk tantek: am I crazy? I can't find on the wiki where you talk about POSSEing likes to twitter
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tantek h-entrys
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aaronpk i coulda sworn you had written something up
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tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#POSSE_Favorites_of_Tweets
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aaronpk hah
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aaronpk i checked /like and /POSSE
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki commented '@sillygwailo @justagwailo Awesome! Mine will be h-entrys so you can follow the list with an h-feed reader (or via an RSS proxy) More info: h...' on a post that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#POSSE_Favorites_of_Tweets (https://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/12/19/1/indieweb)
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tantek note that current write-up does not say what to do with likes/favoritings of things which lack a POSSE tweet copy
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tantek if anything
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@aaronpk @sillygwailo @justagwailo Awesome! Mine will be h-entrys so you can follow the list with an h-feed reader (or via... http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/12/19/1/indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/546050803169886208)
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Primo sup bitches!?
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Primo i hope this isn't a dead channel with stuckup *unts.
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Primo helllllooooo!
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aaronpk Primo: that kind of language is not appropriate here. please see https://indiewebcamp.com/code-of-conduct
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petermolnar Primo no, this is not a dead channel, but we do ignore irrelevant people
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Primo petermolnar no shit.
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Primo typical channel i guess, a group of losers with treats of ignore... bullocks!
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aaronpk Primo: do you have a personal website? what is your interest in #indiewebcamp?
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Primo i am a web developer
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Primo and yes i do
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Primo why am i being questioned?
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aaronpk normally newcomers to the channel are welcomed warmly, but they typically don't enter the channel in the style you did
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aaronpk one of the ways we introduce ourselves here is by asking about peoples' personal websites
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petermolnar aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 635 karma
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Primo which simply means, i am not a typical newcomer
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aaronpk that's fine, nobody expects you to be
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snarfed.org edited /like (+272) "/* Ryan Barrett */ my bookmarklet and android setup" (view diff)
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Primo anyway i come in peace
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sparverius aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 636 karma
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aaronpk however please read the code of conduct and decide whether you want to participate here. an apology for the inappropriate language would be helpful as well.
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snarfed since people are thinking about publishing/posseing likes…i've plugged them here before, but it might be worth re-plugging them…
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Primo any apology?
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snarfed (as design/code examples, if nothing else)
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snarfed two-click likes (with optional posse) on web: https://snarfed.org/indieweb-press-this-bookmarklets-for-wordpress
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Primo hahahaahahahahaaha
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Loqi awesome
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snarfed four-tap likes (etc) on android: https://snarfed.org/easy-indieweb-interactions-on-android
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aaronpk snarfed++ for easy "like" workflow on desktop *and* mobile!
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Loqi snarfed has 62 karma
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kylewm bret: hey someone was asking which version of smallest fedwiki (Ruby or Node) was more maintained/active, do you know?
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bret node only iirc
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kylewm bret: ok good that's what i told him at HWC
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bret npm install -g wiki
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sparverius is there an iwc chat channel
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bret $ wiki
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bret sparverius: this channel is for any indieweb on topic talk, #indiechat is for off topic and isn't logged
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sparverius i thought so... i just never saved it to my irssi config
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aaronpk well I guess he wasn't willing to apologize. or he didn't accept the code of conduct.
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bret Should COC be in the topic?
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aaronpk (assuming male pronoun because of the language used)
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elf-pavlik aaronpk, does Loqi always use 'him' whe one uses !tell ?
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Loqi :)
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aaronpk nope :)
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elf-pavlik cool!
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tantek !tell caseorganic welcome back!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell her that when I see her next
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tantek :D
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elf-pavlik nice :)
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kylewm Loqi mostly doesn't know preferred pronouns though, and it is a mystery why it knows for some people :P
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bret pats Loqi
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tantek gives Loqi a mystery.
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bret.io created /coc (+29) "Redirected page to [[code-of-conduct]]" (view diff)
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Loqi cuts the mystery.
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bear.im edited /code-of-conduct (+57) "/* Signed */" (view diff)
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bret.io edited /code-of-conduct-why (+137) "Added Resource section" (view diff)
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bret Added a resource section to the why page bear
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bear thanks
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bear bret++
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Loqi bret has 47 karma
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Loqi bear: tantek left you a message 1 week, 2 days ago: the escaping of URLs in a query param the way Google does it is super ugly
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bear sighs
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bear it's been a very busy month - i've been lurking too much
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GWG bear: I sympathize
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bret &yet is making everyone write cool blogs posts like every day
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tantek on their own blogs?
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bear we write on a team blog for company related stuff
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bear but we also write on our own blogs often
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@FloFian RT @piwigo: Need a an idea for a Christmas present? Offer a http://Piwigo.com gift code http://piwigo.com/gift #indieweb #privacy #pho… (twitter.com/_/status/546062936033468417)
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@atomsoffice FloFian: RT piwigo: Need a an idea for a Christmas present? Offer a http://Piwigo.com gift code http://piwigo.com/gift #indieweb... (twitter.com/_/status/546064431160254464)
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tantek anyone heard of piwigo?
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bear yea, it's a very popular photo hosting platform - php and all that
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bear piwigo.com is the hosting site for the open source code - ala wordpress
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tantek bear, by "platform" do you mean "silo"?
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bear well, only if you use piwigo.com - but you can run it on your own server
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bear it's GPL licensed open source
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tantek so is it a CMS? is it a plugin for other CMSs? is it a library for someone to build a plugin or CMS on top of?
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tantek I still don't understand what you mean by "platform" in that description
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bear it's a tool to allow a person to organize photos and make them displayable on the web
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bear it's a personal flickr
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bear platform probably is not the best word I could have selected
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tantek wonders if it's a personal Flickr in the same way that everyone that graduates a Rails course thinks they've built a personal Twitter.
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bear it really is "wordpress for photos"
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tantek but WordPress has photo posting support, so I'm confused by that statement
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bear sighs
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tantek is it like MediaGoblin?
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bear yes
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petermolnar for plain photo gallery, use lychee, but that is without any social thing
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bear sorry, i'm very much under the weather so my thoughts are not a coherant as I normally would be
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aaronpk lychee looks really nice actually http://lychee.electerious.com/
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tantek ok if it's open source like wordpress then what's the point of a "gift code"?
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aaronpk petermolnar: do you use it on your site?
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petermolnar aaronpk not on the site, no, but for plain galleries with many pictures, sometimes
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bear well, like wordpress the opensource project - piwigo.com is a commercial entity hosting site
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aaronpk finding a good self-hosted photo solution is a long-term goal of mine
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petermolnar when google integrated picasa into g+ I moved my former galleries to lychee
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tantek a-ha ok "piwigo.com is a commercial entity hosting site" is a silo
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tantek like wordpress.com
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tantek not indieweb
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bear yes
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tantek the tweet is mistagged then
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bear ah - now I get why your were asking these questions - I was not being clear at all about seperating those two
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bear my apologies
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petermolnar aaronpk lychee is fast, snappy and pretty lightweight, although as a price, pretty dumb as well
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petermolnar but it is indeed perfect for self hosted image galleries
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aaronpk does it have things like tagging and albums?
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petermolnar albums yes
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petermolnar tagging, I'll check it
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bear realizes he is very hungry
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bear goes to find food
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tantek (that reads quite funny, bear ;) )
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bret lol
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bear :)
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aaronpk petermolnar: looks like it does have tags! http://electerious.com/lychee_demo/
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tantek what is lychee?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "lychee" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=lychee
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tantek what is piwigo?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "piwigo" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=piwigo
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aaronpk petermolnar: how long have you been using lychee?
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petermolnar main folders last mod date is Jul 5, so from that :)
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bear.im created /piwigo (+144) "Created page with "'''<dfn>[http://piwigo.org/ Piwigo]</dfn>''' Piwigo is photo gallery software for the web, built by an active community of users and developers."" (view diff)
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bear.im edited /piwigo (-24) (view diff)
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bear.im edited /piwigo (-7) (view diff)
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bear.im edited /piwigo (-1) (view diff)
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bear more proof that I need to get some food - three edits for about 7 words ;)
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bear.im edited /piwigo (-2) (view diff)
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