2014-12-24 UTC
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# 00:22 GWG tantek: I wrote in all the types: Favorite, Like, Etc. I'll write in a button to turn each one off.
# 00:24 GWG I wrote the code. No point in removing it. I'll just hide the selection option
# 00:24 GWG tantek: Back to the favorite vs like vs bookmark vs reply vs whatever
# 00:25 tantek by "on my site" do you mean you'll delete the content as well?
# 00:26 GWG If I am not using the designator, nothing will be associated with it
# 00:26 GWG But, considering I have the code on Github, someone else may prefer Favorite to Like
# 00:26 GWG So, why cut it entirely? Just hide it
# 00:35 GWG I still have to decide which ones I'll be using.
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# 00:45 tantek.com edited /IndieMark (+120) "/* posting UI */ add micropub support for level 5 since people have built that, move theoretical level 5 to 6, bump 6 to 7 as possible futures" (
view diff )
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# 01:50 tantek good evening indiewebcamp - almost ready with the 2015 commitments blog post
# 01:50 tantek anyone around that could give it a quick review?
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# 02:01 tantek quite honorable to help someone else with their indieweb setup
# 02:08 tantek yeah - so much to build/launch. best I can do for most of it is keep track of it in my Working On and Itches lists
# 02:14 tantek hoping that at least my incremental documentation may help others who are working on some of the same things
# 02:15 KartikPrabhu also, i sent a webmention to my post from yours, just to keep a record
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# 02:23 ben_thatmust Anyone know if you can directly mention a person on facebook through brid.gy
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# 02:34 kylewm ben_thatmust: person tagging doesn't really work through the FB API
# 02:34 Loqi kylewm: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 1 day, 6 hours ago: I may have to steal your /imageproxy bit with a checksum scheme to include external images
# 02:37 kylewm it doesn't do any caching on its own; but it was relatively easy to configure nginx to do it
# 02:37 kylewm as easy as any nginx configuration is (not that easy)
# 02:39 KartikPrabhu yes. so if someone views a post with an old avatar, it will be dynamically generated from the source image and saved to cache and then displayed?
# 02:42 KartikPrabhu I wonder if images can be stored as base64 data strings and if it is better?
# 02:42 kylewm found out from thedod that that's how Twister does it
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# 04:01 GWG You people make me wish I was a better programmer
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# 05:39 kylewm so I guess you can tag people as long as you are posting a "check-in"
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# 05:52 Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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# 07:28 KartikPrabhu tantek: should the pilgrim protocol be activated only for 401s or also for 404s ? What is some site/post is down temporarily and I get a webmention from it (possibly by some one malicious?)
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# 13:22 eliemichel I have a question about known
# 13:22 eliemichel Is it easy to implement the syndication toward my old homebrew blog engine?
# 13:25 eliemichel ben_thatmust: ^ (if you are the 'ben' from known)
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# 13:28 eliemichel GWG: ok, I though he was…
# 13:28 eliemichel So does anybody here know about known?
# 13:28 eliemichel oh wait, is there come #known active channel?
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# 13:43 ben_thatmust eliemichel, that ben goes by "benwerd" in here. that NOT the same as the benward thats in here now
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# 15:55 GWG Hmm...I wouldn't mind hosting my photos. But I don't really like Gallery, which is the only software I know for that
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# 16:31 GWG ben_thatmust: Does this mean you need a new goal, or you set the bar low?
# 16:32 ben_thatmust i set the bar low as i don't know how much time i will have after this
# 16:32 ben_thatmust although i want to get person tagging working, I have another idea i am going to work on
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# 16:48 ben_thatmust also, it seems i need to fix commenting on my own posts, that definitely did not work correctly
# 16:50 GWG I'm still refining my context stuff
# 16:50 GWG I really want to make it easy to respond to things
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# 17:33 GWG Do you find your posting UI easy to post?
# 17:33 snarfed i've used nextgen gallery and the built in media albums, both are good
# 17:34 GWG snarfed: I've heard there is some sort of problem with NextGen of late. I forget what
# 17:34 GWG snarfed: But I keep a lot of my images privte
# 17:35 GWG I have pictures dating back to the 19th century
# 17:35 snarfed sure. they all let you put albums inside posts, which you can make private
# 17:36 snarfed i haven't heard that FUD about a nextgen gallery problem. it changed ownership a while ago - maybe that - but it's still fine and maintained
# 17:39 GWG snarfed: I hadn't looked into it personally. But I trusted the source. I would look into it if I was adding
# 17:40 snarfed GWG: sure. just weighing in since you said photos were an itch for you
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# 17:48 GWG snarfed: The biggest one is how long it takes me to produce a note of any type, POSSE and all. But I've been focusing on building the infrastructure.
# 17:48 GWG I had this hybrid model, and I replaced it with a single method
# 17:50 GWG snarfed: Can I pick your brain about that?
# 17:51 GWG I made a major change to the taxonomy plugin I had, and decided to rewrite it to act more like post formats
# 17:54 snarfed always seemed like very little value, at least for me
# 17:56 clintpatty is anyone here self-hosting on Intel Galileo?
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# 18:03 GWG snarfed: The majority of people don't, so it won't affect most people.
# 18:03 snarfed GWG: so this change will improve your posting UI? or is it mostly a refactoring?
# 18:04 GWG snarfed: I was using two post formats plus post kinds(types is a restricted word)
# 18:04 GWG It's one less setting for me to use.
# 18:04 GWG It allowed me to simplify the code as well
# 18:05 GWG But, basically, there is a box next to the content box as to whether it is a reply, bookmark, favorite, like, photo, RSVP, etc.
# 18:05 GWG So, the next step is to add a settings page to disable the ones I'm not using right now.
# 18:05 GWG snarfed: Because I can't decide if I like something, favorite it, bookmark it, etc.
# 18:06 GWG But, it sets up for the next part.
# 18:06 GWG There's a feature of WordPress that was rejected for admission to core called Post Formats UI.
# 18:07 GWG It hid/displayed the UI elements relevant to the format
# 18:07 tantek KartikPrabhu: delayed response - yes you should only delete for 410, not 404 - I stand corrected (unless Twitter is returning a 410? is it? it should for deleted tweets, accounts, and tweets from deleted accounts)
# 18:10 snarfed GWG: at a high level, that work sounds good to me since it's improving your user-visible UI. (if i had any overall advice for you, it'd be to refactor less and worry about breaking backward compatibility less. this is all experimental stuff with tiny user bases - often just 1 - so iterating fast on actual features is the most useful thing to do.)
# 18:10 tantek it's good to collect such microdecisions, especially when you have reasoning behind it
# 18:11 tantek snarfed++ "iterating fast on actual features is the most useful thing to do"
# 18:14 ben_thatmust GWG, reply's are obviously not great unless someone uses indie-config or something
# 18:14 tantek seeing a few more IndieWeb 2015-01-01 commitments
# 18:15 GWG snarfed: The only aspect of backward compatibility I don't want to break is the data structure I'm storing things in.
# 18:16 GWG I switched it from 3 variables to an array, so I could add things to it.
# 18:16 GWG That's how I killed acegiak's site.
# 18:16 GWG I still hold myself responsible for that.
# 18:17 GWG tantek: I told him 4 times to backup because I was playing with the data.
# 18:17 GWG I warned him because I knew it was a big change
# 18:17 tantek GWG, then you were plenty up front. No need to blame yourself.
# 18:17 GWG He's migrated to a solution of his own.
# 18:18 GWG tantek: Either way, there's no need to change the data structure now that it is expandable.
# 18:18 GWG That's why I changed it. For myself. So I wouldn't have to reprocess old posts
# 18:18 GWG That's why adding authorship was easy(well, not displaying it, but storing it)
# 18:18 tantek GWG - the key is to decouple the in-code datastructure from the in-storage data structure so that you can change one without affecting/breaking the other.
# 18:19 tantek in-code datastructure <-> storage API <-> in-storage data structure (AKA file format or database schema)
# 18:21 snarfed GWG: and tantek is right that you gave plenty of warning. young, immature code is *expected* to break. it's ok. try not to let that fear drive your priorities or designs.
# 18:22 GWG tantek: I did that. But not in the first version. I learned.
# 18:24 kylewm curious about whether twitter serves 410, does anybody know a url of a deleted account? i can only find suspended...
# 18:26 tantek GWG - that's ok too. It actually does make sense to hardcode things just to ship something, and then abstract later, only as needed.
# 18:26 tantek kylewm: the account that had replied to KartikPrabhu's post, but he deleted the comment.
# 18:27 GWG tantek: As for the acegiak thing, even he understands, I think. I just still feel bad about it.
# 18:29 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 18:29 ben_thatmust not really seeing a good section to add that to. I will add my notes on it later
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# 18:31 tantek ben_thatmust: (new) section "Brainstorming", subsection "Ben Roberts", then just copy/paste about /new vs. /create
# 18:31 aaronpk snarfed: I can't find API docs on facebook for how to do that
# 18:31 aaronpk facebook api says you have to use the like button and the API doesn't support it
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# 18:32 snarfed aaronpk: huh. maybe they removed it in api v2.x? seems unlikely
# 18:33 GWG They are removing XMPP in 2, I think
# 18:34 aaronpk i didn't realize I was looking at the pages part of the API docs
# 18:34 tantek snarfed I read about#like - questions, does Bridgy support POSSEing a like as fave to Twitter? likes to Instagram?
# 18:34 snarfed tantek: twitter yes, IG no since it has no write API
# 18:36 snarfed wait, nm, IG's like API evidently works now. i said so myself. my memory is worthless :P
# 18:38 tantek if that's already supported, apologies, and turn it into a documentation feature request ;)
# 18:38 tantek snarfed, thanks, added documentation request to the issue also :)
# 18:40 tantek snarfed, I assume no Bridgy Publish support of likes to Foursquare/Swarm checkins either then?
# 18:43 snarfed g+, at least for me, but no +1 api there either :/
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# 18:56 tantek snarfed, I don't remember that last time I posted any interactions to G+ - might have been earlier this year?
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# 19:51 aaronpk thinking about adding publishing likes into Quill kind of like bridgy publish
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# 20:28 GWG tantek: How is your commitment going?
# 20:29 tantek I'm working on a previous commitment - a batch of edits to CSS3-UI
# 21:08 aaronpk !tell snarfed you had to explicitly request "publish_actions" approval from facebook in order to publish likes for people, right?
# 21:08 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 21:18 aaronpk i have to create a privacy policy page in order for facebook to let me post likes
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# 21:21 aaronpk holy hell this is more work than I wanted to do right now
# 21:23 snarfed aaronpk: i think i was grandfathered in for publish_actions
# 21:23 Loqi snarfed: aaronpk left you a message 14 minutes ago: you had to explicitly request "publish_actions" approval from facebook in order to publish likes for people, right?
# 21:23 snarfed the only one i needed the big review process for was rsvp_event
# 21:23 aaronpk they've done ap retty good job of walking me through everything
# 21:24 aaronpk even just for posting status updates from an app tho
# 21:25 KevinMarks the privacy policy thing si a good move in some ways - you can be prosecuted in california if you don't have one
# 21:25 snarfed i know it doesn't need to be said…but you could just polyfill the annoying api part for now with bridgy publish (as long as you send wms) and circle back later :P
# 21:26 aaronpk at least I can get an access token for my own account in the mean time
# 21:26 snarfed it'd just let you get running end to end faster, ie do your data model, UI, etc instead
# 21:27 aaronpk i think i'll be fine cause at least I can get this going with my own account. the only thing it won't work for is if other people try to use it
# 21:27 snarfed i think they might let you do everything w/your own account, so you can at least test
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# 22:31 aaronpk i don't understand why the URLs Loqi follows sometimes end up at invalid things
# 22:37 KartikPrabhu tantek: restored that comment from Twitter for testig purposes. It seems Twitter gives a 404 and so the Pilgrim Protocol does not work!
# 22:38 KartikPrabhu that is what I was concerned about. I don't want to delete comments due to 404
# 23:04 tantek KartikPrabhu: yes that's right. we should add that as an issue to /Twitter#Issues - they need to return 410 for deleted tweets, deleted accounts, and tweets of deleted accounts
# 23:05 tantek and then perhaps we can start discussion silo-specific exceptions to the Pilgrim Protocol - that is - perhaps we can use page content to detect when e.g. a twitter.com 404 is actually a deletion.
# 23:14 aaronpk if my own likes were working right now I would like that
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# 23:21 tantek davidpeach++ way to one-up ;) favorites AND retweets
# 23:36 GWG ben_thatmust: About earlier...the hardest part of posting content is how many steps it takes me
# 23:41 aaronpk holy crap are there really no good php twitter libraries out there?
# 23:41 aaronpk i feel like the internet is conspiring against me finishing this today
# 23:47 aaronpk ugh. the examples there don't actually work after the changes he made
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