#GWGWhy are rel-syndication links at a higher level than Web Actions?
#GWGRel-syndication links seem like a lower bar to me.
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#tantekGWG - because simple silo-specific web actions are *much* easier to build into a system than rel-syndication links, which themselves depend on getting POSSE working, and then storing the results of that POSSEing working.
#tantekWhereas simple silo-specific web actions can be hardcoded into templates on your posts.
#tantekso no, rel-syndication links are not a lower bar. they are a higher bar because of what they depend on.
#tantekGood question however, and I will likely document as an FAQ when I figure out where best to do so.
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#snarfedtantek: GWG: that's all true for automated posse, but not for manual. i often manually posse and then add rel-syndication links manually too
#GWGsnarfed: I need to go back to my plugin by the way. I think I messed up a conditional.
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#tanteksnarfed, the plugin argument is flawed. similarly there are zillions of "social" plugins out there that add the simple silo-specific web action links.
#tantekif you want to talk plugins, compare plugins
#tantekotherwise, the amount of work required I think is pretty clear
#GWGWeb actions as noted could be construed as choosing your favorite silo.
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#tantekGWG - not explicit, but implicit. "most used" is implicit. "favorite" is explicit.
#tantek.comedited /IndieMark (+49) "/* Level 2 web actions */ update action to indie-action tag, link to specific how to to make it easier" (view diff)
#@tMuch on: * mobile and/or content first design but not: * text first design * notification first design Too old or new? (ttk.me t4Zr6) (twitter.com/_/status/549065379449147392)
#tantekKartikPrabhu: well that's one more Twitter Feature documented as a page on indiewebcamp.com - thanks for the prod / seed of additional data on G+ behavior
#tantekodd - I don't see aaronpk's likes of tweets being POSSEd to Twitter, i.e. to twitter.com/aaronpk/favorites
#tantekor I'm seeing lots of favorites on twitter.com/aaronpk/favorites that are not on aaronparecki.com/likes - so aaronpk hasn't *quite* started owning his favorites yet ;)
#tantekright. ultimate minimalism then progressive enhancement
#KartikPrabhui always thought that's what content first meant!
#KartikPrabhufor instance, I always write the text version of posts first and then add images to the text to help it along
#KartikPrabhuit is progressive enhancement of HTML through its history of being text first and then images and then video etc...
#KartikPrabhuI have a whole article in mind on how progressive enhancement is actually how scientists have been working all along. but writing that is a process of its own
#asdofindiais unhosted.org the same idea as indiewebcamp.com ?
#tantekasdofindia: as with any negative framing, it's not clear what "unhosted" (or "not hosted") actually means or what idea it represents
#tantekasdofindia: OTOH, the home page of indiewebcamp.com says right there what it's about (your content is yours, you are better connected, you are in control), and how it's different from past attempts like blogging and "decentralization".
#KartikPrabhuasdofindia: welcome! as for your question, unhosted.org seems to be more about uhosted apps or whatever. Indieweb is more about owning your content ( things that you post online ) using your own domain name instead of silos like Twitter or G+
#asdofindia:D yes, but tbh indiewebcamp homepage is slightly more intimidating than unhosted homepage :P
#tantekasdofindia: not really. most indiewebcamp projects people install and run on their own server.
#tantekasdofindia: what do you find more intimidating (at all) about indiewebcamp.com?
#asdofindialol. are you at odds with unhosted project? :P I just thought it'd be the same people behind both these sites.
#asdofindiabasically, indiwebcamp is about installing existing apps on our own domain and then pushing the updates to silos. Am I right?
#tantekasdofindia: most of us write our own software for our sites, and don't really think of them as separate "apps" per se - do you consider WordPress to be an "app"?
#asdofindiatantek, well not very intimidating, but distracting. But it lasts only a few minutes I think. I now have a better mind map of how indiewebcamp.com is structured so that I can read through
#tantekasdofindia: not at odds but rather a difference of focus of principles
#tantekindiewebcamp is a community - rather than "a project" - that's a big difference
#tantekwe also place a very high emphasis on selfdogfooding - which few other efforts do
#tantekKartikPrabhu: in continuing my research of "like" post presentation, it appears FB presents like posts with a full copy of the thing that was liked!
#asdofindiaposse must be easy. Does backfeed work in practice?
#tantekit does! quite well for the folks that have set it up
#asdofindiabackfeed is meant for me, right? the others are not supposed to see the backfeed?
#KartikPrabhudoes unhosted.org help you in anyway to do this?
#asdofindiawell, a lot of things can be run client side. unhosted helps in that.
#asdofindiabut then when it's client side backfeed cannot work.
#asdofindia(It could work, if I keep the comments in silos itself. But that beats the point)
#KartikPrabhuasdofindia: doing everything client-side i.e. with javascript is not a good idea in general. specially for owning your data
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#asdofindiabut it might be a cheaper way for a lot of people to be independent on the web.
#KartikPrabhuasdofindia: but it is a bad way. if you JS everything then I can not parse and comment on your post becasue there is no HTML
#KartikPrabhuand I really don't want to parse JS on my readers clients! who knows what that'll do
#asdofindiaDo you wanna hear something ambitious? I'm thinking of setting up a google app engine/heroku which will backfeed comments by committing them into the github pages repo
#KartikPrabhuasdofindia: isn't that depending on 2 silos :)
#tantek.comedited /like (+227) "/* Facebook */ note odd use of present tense "likes" verb in right-side notifications stream when other microcopy verbs there are all past tense" (view diff)
#asdofindialol KartikPrabhu I see you in that list
#tantekbut now I'm wondering if I should also use the present tense "likes"
#tanteksince that's what people are used to seeing
#KartikPrabhutantek: I don't know how persistent the congnitive effect of past v/s present tense is
#KartikPrabhujudas priest! too late in the morning to spell!
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#tantek.comedited /like (+288) "/* Facebook */ Possible explanation of deliberate use of present tense "likes" verb in contrast to other past tense verbs" (view diff)
#KartikPrabhuprtksxna: good to use latest code on site. I should do that! :)
#KartikPrabhusorry for late reply... editing paper while chatting
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#tantekKartikPrabhu: funny thing, in now having thought that through, along with that hypothesis of an explanation, and re-reading the prose in the image in http://indiewebcamp.com/notification#Platform_Examples - I think they would sound better with "likes"
#tantekanother reason "like" is better than "favorite" - the equivalent present tense for favorite, e.g. "favorites", doesn't make sense nor read well.
#tantek"likes" works well as both the present state of liking, and implying an explicit liking action in the past
#tantekthat's enough for tonight. will sleep on it and see about adding markup to that text design in the morning. then it's a small matter from there to implementation in Falcon :)
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#tantekPhyks - yes - too tailor made and likely too fragile. At least speaking for myself.
#tantekrealized I need to put the "when did I like this thing" datetime (or perhaps just time) in the like posts design to have something to link to a permalink
#Phyksand people interested in POSSE and selfhosting may not have yet the knowledge necessary to build their own solutions
#tantekPhyks, true on all accounts. There's also RedWind which recently picked up its second user.
#tantekOne of the driving goals of indiewebcamp is to design/develop protocols & formats & methods (like POSSE) to be as simple/minimal as possible so that more people *can* build their own solutions.
#tantekThere is strength in multiple projects supporting common protocols/formats/methods
#tantekas opposed to every other attempt at this kind of thing which assumes "Everybody go install this one project"
#tantekindeed, I am realizing it was a bit buried in the middle of the home page
#tantek.comedited /Main_Page (+107) "move get started and projects to before Beyond Blogging so it doesn't appear to be only part of that, emphasize people-focused" (view diff)
#tantekPhyks, you've already found /projects now, however I updated the home page slightly to hopefully make "projects we're building" more prominent / obvious
#GWGTantek, the nice thing about WordPress is it is skinable.
#tantek.comedited /projects (+287) "clean-up Known entry a bit, move WordPress and Red Wind up to main list up top since they are installable and usable today" (view diff)
#tantekok there we go, Known, WordPress, and Red Wind all open source, installable, and bumped to the top of /Projects
#tantek.comedited /like (+1156) "/* text design */ explicitly note dates of like posts to provide context and a permalink hook, splitting times and date in clustered in-stream view, and where times/dates link to" (view diff)
#tantekthere's no need to show any context to explain a "like"
#tantek*however*, what people (silos, others) do do is often show a /link-preview of what they've linked to in a post, whether a note with a link, a bookmark, or a like.
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#GWGI'm using the same code, but I'm still working on the terminology
#GWGSo, link-preview is probably better, but how much is shown is set by how much data I enter in the UI
#snarfedre the mention of replacing your own twitter usage…i feel like i've done that since early this year. reading, tweeting, replying, favoriting, retweeting
#snarfedi now go to dev.twitter.com way more than twitter.com :P
#tanteklooks forward to snarfed's post about how he's replaced his Twitter usage over the past year :D
#snarfedheh. can't say i plan to write that post - i've documented all the parts, and i guess i'm just not that personally motivated to write up the integration - but maybe!