#indiewebcamp 2015-01-04

2015-01-04 UTC
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KartikPrabhu tantek: on your homepage the like cluster with "likes Doc Searls's Linux Journal article “Hats Off to Mozilla”" has a permalink on the cluster date that goes to the wrong things
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tantek was *just* fixing that!
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KartikPrabhu aah ok cool! I like the cluster display in home stream
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tantek (testing locally)
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tantek and reload homepage
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KartikPrabhu now it leads to more than the listed likes
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KartikPrabhu for instance the second like cluster with NovemberProjectSF... leads to a page where the first few likes are not the same ones
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tantek right the date link leads to all likes for that date
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tantek right now it's just a flat expanded list
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tantek however, having separate page like that for all posts of a certain type on that day gives me the flexibility to style / design them nicer for that post type
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KartikPrabhu nods
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tantek that's actually new functionality as of this year that works for any of the post types on my site
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tantek e.g if you put a 't' at the end instead of an 'f' you'll see *only* the text notes
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tantek from that day
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KartikPrabhu yup. got that part :)
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ben_thatmust YES!
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ben_thatmust https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2015/1/4/1/
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tantek whoa
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ben_thatmust its really rough yes, but it works
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ben_thatmust and it should be extremely easy to port to iOS, windows phone, and a number of other systems
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ben_thatmust thanks to cordova/phonegap
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tantek after wrestling with my u-syndication parsing/generation code flow, and rewriting a bunch of it to be smaller and more general purpose, I have an example of a like with a u-syndication link
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tantek http://tantek.com/2015/002/f4
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tantek now to go back and add public like syndication URLs :/
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ben_thatmust nice
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tantek so I'm doing this manually right now by checking my /allactivity on FB, scrolling to find the like post, hover over it to see a timestamp appear, right-click on the timestamp to get the permalink of the like post on FB
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tantek which is obviously too much work
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tantek so I'm hoping Bridgy Publish can be fixed to return a permalink of the like post
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tantek when it POSSEs a like to FB
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ben_thatmust yeah that would be very nice to have
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tantek and I've now confirmed that all the Bridgy Publish POSSE likes of FB posts did show up in my /allactivity, and I've linked all of them from my original like posts
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tantek I had to add them manually to storage (editing an HTML file)
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tantek ok I don't see a Bridgy Publish issue on this so I'll add one
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+151) "/* auto Bridgy POSSE to FB */ note issue with getting permalinks from Bridgy for FB POSSE likes" (view diff)
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ben_thatmust if anyone else is interested in trying out the Micropub android app, i'll send you an apk. its REALLY rough though
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ben_thatmust if someone is set up for ios dev you can build it too
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ben_thatmust github repo coming soon
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+0) "/* auto Bridgy POSSE to FB */ list fix" (view diff)
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tantek just realized my 2015-001 ship commitment was quite a spur of the moment decision, I'd not yet documented "owning my likes" as Working On or an Itch! Closest was https://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#implement_reposts_of_tweets
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snarfed re FB like permalinks, if anyone knows how to get or generate them from the API, please let us know! https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/334
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+121) "/* auto Bridgy POSSE to FB */ note bridgy issue 331" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ http://www.cni.org/news/personal-digital-archiving-2015-nyc-424-26-2015-call-for-participation/
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Loqi KevinMarks_: voxpelli left you a message 12 hours, 25 minutes ago: I pushed a quick fix now for the duplicated text in the mentions on your site – it displays a sensible default now rather than the imported like/repost text
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snarfed huh funny, https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/305 is related - fb links with colons
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tantek yeah! all the like permalinks had colons in them
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KevinMarks_ looks good voxpelli - I should try the facepile too
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snarfed …reading closer, not really related though. th like links had small numbers after the colon, e.g. 6, and that issue has one with probably an id
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tantek well the ones I found in /allactivity anyway
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tantek removing the : and number afterwards shows a *different* like!
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tantek from two days earlier1
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tantek s/earlier1/earlier!
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Loqi tantek meant to say: from two days earlier!
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tantek I'm looking at the syndication of this post in particular: http://tantek.com/2015/002/f1
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snarfed the api's /[user id]/likes returns a user's likes, but i don't see anything related to the permalinks
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snarfed and those are just likes of pages, not post :/
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snarfed https://developers.facebook.com/tools/explorer?method=GET&path=me%2Flikes&version=v2.2
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tantek there's no "allactivity" in the API?
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snarfed maybe! i'm just narrating as a go
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tantek hmm http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9984051/facebook-api-retrieve-all-activity
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snarfed sigh
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snarfed >2.5y old, but still
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tantek I'm assuming you don't want to scrap facebook.com/me/allactivity ?
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tantek s/scrap/scrape
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Loqi tantek meant to say: I'm assuming you don't want to scrape facebook.com/me/allactivity ?
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ben_thatmust is indieauth.com having problems?
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snarfed tantek: lol. i'd have to ask for or generate a facebook auth cookie, so no, that's probably a non starter
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ben_thatmust indieauth isn't loading for me :(
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tantek class="uiLinkSubtle"
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tantek.com edited /quotation (+656) "quotation as reminder is still just a bookmark" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ Is the google openid 2 shutdown an indieauth adoption opportunity?
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KevinMarks_ As indieauth supports openid 2 login
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ben_thatmust okay, its definitely not me, indieauth.com isn't loading is it
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ben_thatmust jus ttried from a remote machine
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KevinMarks_ I bet we could write shorter migration steps than Google's
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+1083) "/* Working On */ improve like posts" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ Not working for me either
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KevinMarks_ https://developers.google.com/accounts/docs/OpenID#shutdown-timetable
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ben_thatmust maybe its time for an alternative, shake out all those apps that always use indieauth instead of a site's preference
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rascul also down for me
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tantek KevinMarks could you add all that to /OpenID ?
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tantek and perhaps /Google ?
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ben_thatmust (assuming you can login to the wiki)
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KevinMarks_ That's hard enough on the phone anyway
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kylewm snarfed: it's not looking for for FB like permalinks ... i tried creating one and then bubbling back up to the liked photo, and nothing
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kylewm s/for for/good for
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Loqi kylewm meant to say: snarfed: it's not looking good for FB like permalinks ... i tried creating one and then bubbling back up to the liked photo, and nothing
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ben_thatmust KevinMarks_ while i have you. what you some things you might like from an android MP client?
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kylewm ben_thatmust: photo upload!!
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KevinMarks_ Ltd love to try it
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KevinMarks_ I use known as a web app for that
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kylewm KevinMarks_: it can't resize though (right?)
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snarfed kylewm: thanks for looking! what do you mean by "bubbling back up?"
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KevinMarks_ Do send me info on the app, I was going to change my notifications one and it would be good to work out urls to communicate
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KevinMarks_ And I have a nexus 6 to test on now
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ben_thatmust kylewm, sounds like a good idea its definitely possible http://plugins.cordova.io/#/package/org.apache.cordova.camera
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kylewm snarfed: I just mean I POSTed to {post-id}/likes, it returned {'success': true}, and then i tried looking {post-id}/likes and {post-id}
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ben_thatmust https://github.com/dissolve/micropublish
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ben_thatmust just initial proof of concept, there is lots to do
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ben_thatmust i'll add info on how to build to the readme.md soon, basically just follow the cordova tutorial and you should be able to get there
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ben_thatmust currently only 1 field (content) and the syndicate-to is hard-coded (next to fix)
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ben_thatmust but indieauth works on it (if indieauth.com would come back up)
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ben_thatmust okay afk for a bit
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snarfed kylewm: got it, thanks. np, we can deprioritize…plenty of others on https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Anow to tackle
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snarfed kylewm: speaking of which…you mentioned posseing instagram likes? :P
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kylewm snarfed: yeah! i added it to redwind today
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snarfed oh nice!
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snarfed do you use an ig api lib or the rest api directly?
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kylewm oh, directly
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snarfed good call. wish i'd done that to start with.
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kylewm hmm, yeah i hear ya
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kylewm is there any prior art for link-previews on like posts? it's not obvious how to mark them up, unless it's p-like-of h-cite (like reply context)
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KartikPrabhu that's what I'd do
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kylewm ok so when tantek said "there's no such thing as like context", that was just a semantic distinction
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GWG kylewm: I think the term he used was link preview
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kylewm GWG: it was, i just didn't know if there was a markup distinction
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GWG kylewm: I've long been lost.
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aaronpk indieauth.com is fine for me... is it still down for anyone?
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kylewm aaronpk: lgtm
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kylewm maybe I spoke too soon...
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aaronpk srsly?
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ben_thatmust its back for me
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rascul yeah back now
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kylewm it seems very slow to me?
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kylewm snarfed: to double check, we'd need to turn on the publish switch for instagram so that users can authorize bridgy to publish on their behalf and then just implement the -> like api calls?
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kylewm i'm happy to take a look at that one... makes sense since i just did it locally
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snarfed kylewm: awesome, thanks! yeah, that's what i think. i expect there are at least a few more places that have [fb, tw] hard coded somehow that we'd need to update, e.g. in the ui, but manual testing should flush them out
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ben_thatmust apk link https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxbIiFMv4MOeLUc3dEJWenF0ZjQ/view?usp=sharing
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ben_thatmust for those who want to see if there are any problems. Don't expect the syndicate-to to be right for you, thats how i use it
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tantek has anyone run their own website / a web server from a mobile batteries only situation like with a mifi for network access?
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GWG Not permanently.
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GWG You have the same program you do with any ISP service
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tantek just wondering how hard it is (if even possible) to route a domain name through a mifi and to a device on its network
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GWG Possibly Changing IP
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tantek are there mifis with static IP?
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tantek either way - I'm curious about it
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GWG That I've never looked into
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tantek would be interesting to try - and then design for - that is - the web of temporarily connected things
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tantek see how well all our protocols etc. hold up in such situations
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snarfed tantek: sounds like dynamic dns
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tantek snarfed, that would likely need to be part of it
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GWG There's always IPV6
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tantek but I mean what to do when the dns doesn't actually resolve because the device is not always online
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tantek I don't know how IPV6 makes any difference in the "sometimes connected" use-case I'm talking about. GWG, do you know how IPV6 could help?
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snarfed ah. sure. that's a product/design/policy question
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tantek hence a question of can our protocols handle it
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tantek and do something intelligent from the UX perspective
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snarfed i vaguely remember hearing people who'd set up a cdn as a fallback
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tantek imagine your simple webhost as the CDN, while the "main" server is the mobile thing with you
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tantek client-server-server architecture as it were
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tantek anyway mostly wanted to see who if anyone has run a website from a mifi
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aaronpk I was scheming a design like that a while ago, also potentially serving the site from a home internet connection
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aaronpk using the CDN as the public facing server, which would serve the latest cached content if the backend is unavailable
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tantek yeah
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aaronpk kind of gets into the realm of designing a service that can continue to function if the database or storage mechanism is offline
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snarfed static site generators kind of do that
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aaronpk also similar to the kids who would temporarily disable their facebook accounts when they were AFK
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snarfed so do caching solutions that store/serve long-lived cached pages on disk
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aaronpk so that people couldn't interact with their digital representations while their real-life selves were not online
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aaronpk http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2010/11/08/risk-reduction-strategies-on-facebook.html
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tantek whoa that's fascinating
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aaronpk "...when she’s not logged in, no one can post messages on her wall or send her messages privately or browse her content. But when she’s logged in, they can do all of that."
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tantek what is super logoff?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "super logoff" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=super+logoff
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tantek aaronpk ^^^ go for it - stub it with that article!
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tantek that second scenario - where the person is deleting content after they've processed it or after it's aged a certain amount - I wonder if simply archive it as "private" (visible only to her) would be sufficient. that way she could personally search/reference it while to everyone else it would look deleted.
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tantek what is ephemeral?
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aaronpk what's the proper header to reference sources?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "ephemeral" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=ephemeral
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GWG tantek: It's designed to cover the IPs of the increasing number of mobile devices.
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GWG I was thinking in terms of addressing
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tantek aaronpk - just drop a link
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tantek or if you really want - h-cite
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aaronpk See Also?
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tantek GWG - I know the basics of IPV6 - I was asking if you brought it up for a specific applicable reason to the use-case.
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ben_thatmust aaronpk, indieauth is giving me trouble again
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aaronpk ben_thatmust: what's up?
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aaronpk the ssl thing again?
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ben_thatmust no, just sits loading
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aaronpk oh weird
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ben_thatmust wget https://indieauth.com
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ben_thatmust --2015-01-03 22:46:54-- https://indieauth.com/
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ben_thatmust Resolving indieauth.com... 173.230.155.197
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ben_thatmust Connecting to indieauth.com|173.230.155.197|:443... connected.
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ben_thatmust HTTP request sent, awaiting response...
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aaronpk odd, there are only two processes running but there should be 10
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ben_thatmust huh
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ben_thatmust this is what was happening earlier too
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tantek.com edited /expiring_content (+15) "mention ephemeral so it can be found via search" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /ephemeral (+30) "r" (view diff)
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tantek I knew I'd written something about this before
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aaronparecki.com created /super_logoff (+397) "stub with dfn and sources" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - yes see also is a good catch all. but in this case you can cite it directly in the dfn since it's a defining article
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tantek or put it both places
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aaronpk ben_thatmust: I wonder if I'd have better luck running this as its own app rather than via passenger
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tantek.com edited /Facebook (+19) "/* See Also */ super logoff" (view diff)
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kylewm huh, I do the "delete old Facebook posts" thing
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tantek kylewm - why delete instead of make private (your eyes only) ?
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kylewm not quite to the same extreme
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ben_thatmust aaronpk, possibly, i've had problems with passenger in the past
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aaronpk I just don't know why it's not running 10 of them like I'mt elling it to
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aaronpk let me see if I can switch it out quick
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kylewm tantek: guess I'm hoping they will delete it from their servers eventually
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tantek hah
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tantek what is delete?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/delete
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tantek.com edited /report_abuse (+185) "/* Instagram User */ expand This profile is pretending to be someone else, more incremental documentation" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /deleted (+179) "why - numerous reasons, e.g. hoping others will delete from their servers eventually per kylewm" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /super_logoff (+56) "in particular silo, see also FB" (view diff)
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tantek what is do not disturb?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "do not disturb" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=do+not+disturb
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tantek it seems to me that "super logoff" is basically a "do not disturb" hack
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tantek imagine if the "Do Not Disturb" crescent moon button in the iOS swipe-up overlay UI did exactly that with all your online profiles - disable *all* interactions with them.
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ben_thatmust still no luck aaronpk?
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tantek I've thought about how a "Do Not Disturb" button would/should work with indie /comms - that is, being able to push a "Do Not Disturb" button/setting on your website, and have it disable all the interruptive methods of communication on your /contact page (perhaps only allowing non-interruptive / store & forward methods like email)
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aaronpk ben_thatmust: almost got it
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aaronpk it's way faster with puma
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ben_thatmust now do i dare tell you i got a quill error?
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aaronpk hang on it's not live yet :)
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ben_thatmust heh
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ben_thatmust okay
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /User:Ben.thatmustbe.me (+468) "add Micropublish project" (view diff)
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aaronpk ben_thatmust: okay it's running now
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aaronpk i think it's faster too
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aaronpk although for some reason github auth doesn't work now
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aaronpk it's like it's hanging trying to make a request to github.com
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aaronpk i have no idea why it would do that
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aaronpk well now it seems to be fine
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ben_thatmust aaronpk, now as to other issue... http://pastebin.com/XU5UTecD
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aaronpk oh dear
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ben_thatmust i was trying to set up discovery of my endpoints
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ben_thatmust err syndication targets
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aaronpk oh that's cause i haven't updated quill to work with array syntax for syndicat-to
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aaronpk this should be an easy fix... one sec
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aaronpk man, rapidly switching between ruby and php is confusing
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aaronpk ben_thatmust: can you try it again?
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ben_thatmust fhttp://pastebin.com/qCY9FuMg
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aaronpk bah
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aaronpk fixed
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ben_thatmust that worked
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aaronpk nice
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ben_thatmust and now i know that my micropub?q=syndicate-to works right
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aaronpk yay
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ben_thatmust thats the next bit I want to add to the app
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ben_thatmust off to bed, goodnight guys
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Loqi goodnight!
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tantek good night ben_thatmust!
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GWG tantek: How do I write Ting as an Indieweb thing?
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tantek GWG they're a service provider, like a web host.
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GWG Yes, but no one has written up Verizon and so on
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GWG I may ask for your feedback.
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tantek what is comcast?
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Loqi Comcast is a service provider that provides internet access to businesses and personal homes https://indiewebcamp.com/Comcast
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tantek GWG - there you go
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david.shanske.com created /Ting (+991) "Created page with "<dfn>[https://ting.com Ting]</dfn> is a mobile virtual network provider(MVNO) owned by TUCOWS launched in February of 2012. Ting is characterized by a per-unit usage model where ..."" (view diff)
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GWG How's that?
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GWG I hate to feel like I'm advertising.
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GWG I do like these people though
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tantek GWG, good start! If you're worried about advertising, I'd say drop the referral link, and instead add an IndieWeb Examples section and add yourself as a user - just note people can ping you in IRC if they want a referral link.
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david.shanske.com edited /Ting (+114) (view diff)
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GWG There
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GWG Indieweb Examples in
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tantek ok. I'm going to drop the referral link because that's a common spam pattern and even though I know that is not your intent at all, it can appear that way to others who may find the page without context
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GWG Okay. Not a problem.
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GWG I'll make the correction
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tantek.com edited /Ting (+63) "minor tweaks" (view diff)
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tantek great - appreciated
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david.shanske.com edited /Ting (-46) "/* Indieweb Examples */" (view diff)
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GWG I'll just stick to writing Indieweb WordPress stuff, I think
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (+61) "Moved "microformats 2" (view diff)
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kylewm can someone else check the Instagram website to see if the "Embed" option is missing? it's supposed to be there... http://instagram.com/developer/embedding/#
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aaronpk kylewm: I see it
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tantek depends on JS?
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aaronpk one of my photos anyway
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tantek what is embed?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "embed" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=embed
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kylewm oh good call, aaronpk i wasn't looking at my own photos
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kylewm the embed doesn't seem to work when I copy it somewhere else though...
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colintedford Does http://indiewebify.me/validate-h-card/ check for p-adr?
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colintedford Or any of the adr related stuff?
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bret colintedford: i'm not sure
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bret but any of the generic MF2 parsers should
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bret colintedford: check out http://pin13.net and http://tools.transmat.io
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colintedford Thanks, bret.
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colintedford Those pick 'em up; looks like indiewebify.me doesn't check physical address properties.
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tantek colintedford: what do you suggest that it check?
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colintedford tantek: all the h-card stuff! :)
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colintedford I have p-post-office-box, p-locality, p-region, & p-postal-code & they didn
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colintedford 't show up.
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tantek ah, you're looking for a general h-card validator
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tantek beyond the minimum for the indieweb
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colintedford Yeah, I didn't realize it just checked a subset.
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colintedford A note re: that would be fine; I was just confused/worried when the "h-card validator" didn't pik up some of my stuff.
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colintedford *pick
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tantek yes that makes sense
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colintedford.com edited /h-card (+90) "/* Validators */ indiewebify me doesn't check whole h-card" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (-25) "(accidentally submitted last edit) Moved "microformats 2" & "date archives" from "Wants" to "Working on", expanded mf2, marked h-card done, rm extra "https".." (view diff)
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tantek colintedford: thanks much for filing that issue!
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colintedford No problem!
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KartikPrabhu Twitter notifications are weird! everytime I go to the page it show me something different!
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KartikPrabhu anyone else notice that?
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tantek.com edited /quotation (+23) "/* bookmark */ improve wording" (view diff)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: do you have an indieweb version of this post? https://plus.google.com/+KartikPrabhu/posts/UzKErSbfmHq
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KartikPrabhu tantek: unfortunately haven't got to importing all my silo stuff yet... do you need an indieweb version... I can make it now
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tantek I found it via http://aaronparecki.com/bookmarks/2014/04/30/2/
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tantek which I'm trying to intuit whether it truly is just a /bookmark (with a quote as a reminder / summary of what the bookmark is about), or it is a /quotation that was deliberately extracted to share
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tantek I'm going to guess that the intent and primary content was the quotation more than the bookmark, which is just there as information about the quotation.
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tantek similarly with http://aaronparecki.com/bookmarks/2014/06/11/1/
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KartikPrabhu tantek: i suspect those are quotations
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KartikPrabhu tantek: PESOSed https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/popularscience-shut-comments
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tantek backdated and everything
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KartikPrabhu yup! :)
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KartikPrabhu had to do it manually but haven't found a good G+ import tool yet
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tantek KartikPrabhu - any luck with a batch Google Takeout importer?
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KartikPrabhu I have used that... but it seems it gives some sort of XML thing that I have to code to import into my db-system
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KartikPrabhu I am waiting to finish my notes-file-storage so I can write that code instead of the DB one
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KartikPrabhu turns out if you edit>copy the text in your G+ posts, the #tags don't get copied as plaintext because they are links! Thanks Google!
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tantek perhaps code to import it into flat h-entrys - then anyone else can re-use it to import from that
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yes. my file-storage is html+mf2 based ;)
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KartikPrabhu thinks it is weird how fast I can PESOS with his horrible posting UI
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KartikPrabhu s/I/his
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Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: thinks it is weird how fast his can PESOS with his horrible posting Uhis
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KartikPrabhu boo
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tantek Loqi, what are Uhis?
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colintedford I had a case of the Posting Uhis once.
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tantek.com edited /quotation (+355) "/* Aaron Parecki */ note which bookmarks are more like quotation posts, and note which one isn't" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu lol that sub messed up on many levels
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I would tend to make a fragmentioned-bookmark as equivalent to a quotation. that sound reasonable?
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tantek not at all
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KartikPrabhu hmm
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KartikPrabhu what is quotation?
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Loqi A quotation is a type of post that is primarily a subset of the contents of another post, and often has a citation of that other post https://indiewebcamp.com/quotation
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KartikPrabhu tantek: according to that defn it seems to fit ^
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tantek it does not because of the key word "primarily"
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KartikPrabhu hmm so what does the primarily denote?
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KartikPrabhu isn't that what bookmarking a fragmentioned-url represent?
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colintedford Not if you want to bookmark a point in a long document.
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KartikPrabhu currently I see no mechanism to bookmark a particular point
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KartikPrabhu fragmention explicitly refers to some text
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tantek it refers to a starting point in some text
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tantek whereas a quotation refers to a chunk of text with discrete start *and* end
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colintedford Right, it's like making your own fragment identifier.
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KartikPrabhu so it seems we have no easier way to post quotations than to manually copy-past the whole text... ?
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tantek hard to prove "no easier way" :P
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KartikPrabhu I was thinking use a fragmentioned-url as link in bookmark ( only URL to copy-paste ) then have your micropub interpret it as a quotation
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tantek KartikPrabhu: a bookmark with a fragmention is still just a bookmark
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KartikPrabhu hmmm... maybe I still don't get the distinction
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KartikPrabhu the intent of both seems the same
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tantek the distinction is the focus and primary intent
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tantek not at all
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tantek totally different
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KartikPrabhu so maybe the intent should be in the defn
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KartikPrabhu what is bookmark?
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Loqi A bookmark (or linkblog) is a post that is typically comprised of a URL and optional text accompanying it https://indiewebcamp.com/bookmark
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tantek the intent of a /quotation is that it makes sense even out of context, shared on its own. hence *primarily a subset of the contents*
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KartikPrabhu neither of the defns capture the user-intent
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tantek primarily captures intent
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KartikPrabhu no. "makes sense out of context" implies some intent
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tantek and "optional text" makes it clear that that text is secondary
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KartikPrabhu primarily does not mean anything. atleast to me
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tantek thus both definitions already indicate what matters the most to each
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tantek primarily means more than secondarily
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tantek means more than other things. first second third.
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tantek etc.
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KartikPrabhu hmm maybe I just want to post bookmarks
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tantek optional clearly indicates not primary
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tantek though the bookmark dfn can be improved
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KartikPrabhu also words like "typically" are confusing. Am I supposed to be typical or not?
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KartikPrabhu I know I am free to not follow these defns and I have not in the past
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tantek right, typically is bad and I'm fixing that now
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tantek.com edited /bookmark (-86) "make it clear bookmark is primarily about the URL, and other aspects are secondary even if often" (view diff)
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tantek what is a bookmark
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Loqi A bookmark (or linkblog) is a post that is primarily comprised of a URL, often title text from that URL, sometimes optional text describing or quoting from its contents https://indiewebcamp.com/bookmark
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tantek.com edited /bookmark (-34) "collapse further" (view diff)
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@t #indieweb building blocks reply-context, fragmentions, marginalia help distinguish quotations: http://indiewebcamp.com/quotation#Why (ttk.me t4Zy1) (twitter.com/_/status/551649193639813120)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: since you are proposing text-first design, how do I text-first design something like this: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/facets-visions I have no idea what goes as the alt-text in those images
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tantek how would you describe that page to someone over the phone?
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KartikPrabhu no idea. I would not :P
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KartikPrabhu the content in that is purely visual.
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KartikPrabhu i would not attempt to describe abstract photogrpahy over a phone
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@kevinmarks RT @t: #indieweb building blocks reply-context, fragmentions, marginalia help distinguish quotations: http://indiewebcamp.com/quotation#Why (ttk.me t4Zy1) (twitter.com/_/status/551650199915884544)
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tantek I think there's already an FAQ somewhere on how to write good image descriptions
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Loqi [bridgy] Kevin Marks retweeted a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/quotation#Why (https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/551650199915884544)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: appears to be multiple exposures of a cityscape at night, the lights from lamp posts appearing particularly bright, so much so as to nearly obscure anything else's details, all a bit blurry as if in a light fog.
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tantek There should always be a way of describing something visual to someone over the phone. That's what language is for - describing things, visual, conceptual, etc.
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KartikPrabhu tantek: appears to be yes. but all of those are wrong! ;)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: all the more reason you should describe what's *actually* going on in the photos!
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KartikPrabhu no! that is the point... if i actually descirbe the "method" the "point" of the photo is lost
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tantek Ah, you're going all modern art on this, I see.
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KartikPrabhu yes
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tantek Perhaps then do as Monet did. Lights 1. Lights 2. Lights 3.
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tantek etc.
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KartikPrabhu same reason this featured image has no good alt-text: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/science-in-science-fiction
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KartikPrabhu i can't say "ufo" because that is wrong, and I can't say "frying pan with water from a faucet turned upside down"
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KartikPrabhu more actual artists should be on this channel!
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tantek Grainy greyscale photographic image showing what appears to be the underside of something disc shaped with lines radiating from near the center where there is a bright white vertical cylindrical shape, slightly wider at the top, appearing to either support the disc or a flow of energy onto the underside of the disc which is then radially dispersed outward upon contact with the disc.
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KartikPrabhu lol :P
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tantek part of being a scientist is being able to deconstruct observations :P
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colintedford "A disc with a bright column descending from its center, in grainy black & white."
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KartikPrabhu i am not sure that helps "text-first" design or screen readers
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colintedford Whoop
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KartikPrabhu colintedford: oh that is good
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tantek KartikPrabhu: helps both. Just as a plain text science fiction book can conjur incredible images in the minds eye
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tantek text first design is essentially "be a good writer" ;)
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colintedford KartikPrabhu: Thanks :)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I am just thinking that some images don't have a good text representation by their very nature
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colintedford alt="I'm sorry, I don't know how to describe this :("
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KartikPrabhu colintedford: lol that is the problem. alt-text is supposed to be useful for people who can't see the images. But very very hard to do with some images where the visuals are the whole point
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colintedford KartikPrabhu: Yeah, I make comics (though usually not abstract) so I've had to spend more time than I'd like thinking about how to adequately represent visual stuff in text.
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colintedford (for transcript / longdesc )
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KartikPrabhu colintedford: yes. I did see your comics. no wonder you got the ufo :)
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colintedford I suspect sometimes you just have to settle for text that just sort of does the job.
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tantek "don't have a good text representation" -> that's just a challenge for a creative writer
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KartikPrabhu possibly. but sometimes I am just mistified
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KartikPrabhu mystified*
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colintedford E.g. "Soft faceted possible cityscapes with big glowing lights"
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tantek KartikPrabhu: there's an art to deconstructing visual images and describing them
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KartikPrabhu of course
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tantek no reason to expect to be easy
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colintedford It can be frustrating, for sure.
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colintedford But presumably not as much as being blind in a world of scanty alt text ;)
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tantek just as not everyone can easily write HTML, CSS, and/or JS.
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tantek and like many things - practice helps improve the skills
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tantek KartikPrabhu: just try writing simple even if incomplete text equivalents. Something minor is better than nothing. And just that effort will make you better at it over time.
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KartikPrabhu maybe I should get on it then
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colintedford Yes, what tantek just said
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colintedford I still need to backfill a bunch of comic transcripts myself :/
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KartikPrabhu tantek: good luck convincing people of this text-first design... seems hard
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KartikPrabhu though I really thing you should give it the old college try
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tantek KartikPrabhu: text first design, and notification first before that, will work because they are simpler, easier, nothing more.
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KartikPrabhu errr "simpler" is a deceptive word as I think I might have established above. assumes you have a good writer :P a more serious obstacle than content-first i think
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KartikPrabhu and people are not yet convinced of content-first
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tantek I disagree - that trend is definitely taking over in design circles
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tantek KartikPrabhu: it is harder to go from something already complex down to a simpler form
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KartikPrabhu possibly. which might be the case with artist websites
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tantek e.g. a "notification first" design of your facets & visions could just be a brief textual summary
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KartikPrabhu well my summary is "a collection of abstract photographs" which I should add in the h-entry
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tantek notification: Kartik Prabhu posted five photographs in "Facets & Visions"
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KartikPrabhu doesn't say much doe sit
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tantek sure. you could also indicate how many.
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tantek if they're geotagged you could indicate where
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KartikPrabhu hmm yeah
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KartikPrabhu that would lead to my apartment. not sure I want to do that on the internets :P
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colintedford Maybe regular tags if not too many. That "abstract" tag is short & informative.
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KartikPrabhu colintedford: yes I do choose tags carefully though I need auto-suggest in my posting UI for help
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colintedford If there are particular tags you use often, a macro / text expander can help.
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colintedford KartikPrabhu ^
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colintedford I do that w/ my personal log.
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KartikPrabhu yes I need some sort of "previously used tags" thing
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colintedford Like that helps auto-fill? Or a list to choose from (based on frequency or some kind of magic analysis of your post)?
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KartikPrabhu just a reminder of tags I have used so I can repeat when apropos and not create unnecessary duplicates
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colintedford For apropos reminder you could just have a page of all your tags; not sure how to helpful that'd be if you have lots of tags, though, & not sure how to usefully winnow for relevancy.
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KartikPrabhu colintedford: I use my articles feed for that right now. lists all tags used at the bottome :)
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colintedford Ah, handy :)
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KartikPrabhu bottom* not bottome, that's not even french
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colintedford It's Frenche
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colintedford WordPress auto-suggests as I type in the tags field, which helps prevent duplicates but runs kinda slow so isn't as useful as it could be.
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KartikPrabhu yeah javascript needs to be correctly written to be fast
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KartikPrabhu really don't understand why tantek 's favs appear when tilgovi 's follow disappear on twitter notifications
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KartikPrabhu and i was hoping to use Twitter's notifications to build my own....
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Loqi [bridgy] Pelle Wessman favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/quotation#Why (https://twitter.com/t/status/551649193639813120)
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@chavalina RT @furilo: Este año, más POSSE https://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/551696119529349120)
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rascul http://contemporary-home-computing.org/1tb/archives/5118
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@xtof_fr @Nawal_ Te lirai après la #sieste. <3 motivation #ego vs stratégie de génération #indieweb https://indiewebcamp.com/generations Prêt á t'aider. ++ (twitter.com/_/status/551752577118130178)
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Loqi [bridgy] Nawal 娜娃 نوال favorited a tweet https://indiewebcamp.com/generations (https://twitter.com/xtof_fr/status/551752577118130178)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.redivy.co/?p=12 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (pingback)
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GWG Hello out there in Indieweb land.
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Loqi [mention] https://sysadmin.exchange/2015/01/04/indie-web-movement/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/projects (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] https://sysadmin.exchange/2015/01/04/indie-web-movement-3/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/projects (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] https://sysadmin.exchange/2015/01/04/indie-web-movement-2/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/projects (pingback)
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pdurbin GWG: hello
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pdurbin I'm kind of curious if lots of indieweb people develop RESTful APIs for themselves. So they can call into them from mobile apps, for example. You know, your own mobile app for your indieweb site. :)
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tantek those sounds like separate questions pdurbin :)
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tantek so far no one develops a strictly RESTful API - but rather have a common handler (or a few) instead of having every URL accept GET/POST/PUT/DELETE
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tantek there's a lot of stuff mislabeled as RESTful in the realm of APIs
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tantek lots of people support /micropub however, both end points on their sites, and clients they can use from the (mobile) web, or sometimes as native (mobile) apps.
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pdurbin not from my perspective. I'm starting to get into mobile development and while on one hand I'm making games with my kids about their cats, on the other hand I'm making an app that calls into RESTful APIs for an app I work on for my day job. Just on the side... I can't afford to dedicate much time to this.
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GWG pdurbin: What's your platform?
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pdurbin GWG: android. the webapp at work is written in java
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tantek pdurbin: do you use GET/POST/PUT/DELETE in your API?
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tantek.com edited /quotation (+255) "/* Instead use */ re-order by expected instead of frequency / ease of confusion, clarify reply a bit more" (view diff)
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pdurbin tantek: the API supports all those but so far I'm only using GET from the android side. no auth either
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tantek interesting
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pdurbin I agree that stuff is mislabeled as REST all the time. We talk about this constantly in #rest
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pdurbin I don't particularly care what it's called. I'm just hacking on an Android app. :)
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pdurbin which is much fun
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GWG pdurbin: May I make two suggestions if you are interested?
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pdurbin I just haven't developed enough of an API at http://api.greptilian.com to make an interesting Android app. So I'm using work APIs.
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pdurbin GWG: please!
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GWG One is MicroPub for Android, the other is this...
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GWG http://indiewebcamp.com/mention-app
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pdurbin ah, this app is something aaronpk is working on
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@t Analysis & examples of when a quotation should instead be a reply, bookmark, repost, or photo: https://indiewebcamp.com/quotation#Instead_use (ttk.me t4Zz1) (twitter.com/_/status/551789064643698688)
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pdurbin I don't support webmentions on my site though.
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tantek pdurbin: what do you want to support on your site next? perhaps add an "Itches" section to your User page! https://indiewebcamp.com/wikifying#Wikify_yourself
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pdurbin tantek: I sort of want a way to rate (and optionally review, briefly) podcast episodes as I listen to them. Since I listen from my Android phone, I'd probably want to do it from there.
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tantek what is a rating?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "rating" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=rating
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tantek what is a review?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "review" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=review
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pdurbin huh. so no indieweb activity in the area of ratings or reviews?
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tantek.com edited /wikifying (+75) "/* New pages */ main start a page" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /wikifying (+19) "/* See Also */ start a page" (view diff)
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tantek pdurbin, looks like no one has yet started making those kinds of posts in particular - could you stub them with short definitions? https://indiewebcamp.com/start_a_page
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snarfed i can add mine, e.g. https://snarfed.org/beer
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snarfed lots more on https://snarfed.org/lists
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snarfed no mf2 though
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tantek snarfed - it's ok - real world examples are a great start!
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tantek content before markup, real world content publishing helps inform how the markup should work
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tantek !tell kylewm how is your personal indieweb challenge going? were you able to remove all mixed content warnings? https://kylewm.com/2014/12/indieweb-challenge-remove-mixed-content-warning-by-2015-01-01 (didn't see a reply to your own post, nor is there /search on your site!)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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pdurbin snarfed: sure, maybe I'd rate and review beer too! :)
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kylewm o/
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Loqi kylewm: tantek left you a message 1 minute ago: how is your personal indieweb challenge going? were you able to remove all mixed content warnings? https://kylewm.com/2014/12/indieweb-challenge-remove-mixed-content-warning-by-2015-01-01 (didn't see a reply to your own post, nor is there /search on your site!)
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kylewm tantek: good call, i should have posted it as a reply! https://kylewm.com/2014/12/mixed-content-warning-no-more-lock-icon-png-lock
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tantek kylewm++ awesome!
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pdurbin tantek: I promise nothing. I'm supposed to be cleaning the house. :)
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Loqi kylewm has 93 karma
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tantek pdurbin - just trying to help you with incremental steps ;)
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pdurbin well, I like the idea of a beer-related collaboration
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pdurbin smells like progress already :)
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Loqi [bridgy] Robin Taylor favorited a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/quotation#Instead_use (https://twitter.com/t/status/551789064643698688)
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tantek !tell ben_thatmust great job on your first /checkin post! btmb.me/s/5p - I tried URL trimming to https://ben.thatmustbe.me/checkin/ and got 404 - do you have a checkin stream?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek !tell GWG do you feel you've built what you wanted for 2015-01-01? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-12-18#t1418962576242 i.e. improved reply-context including author icon and author name and kinds post/plugin? Did you post about these improvements?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek !tell colintedford nicely done with your 2015-01-01 commitment! http://colintedford.com/2014/12/31.2156-i-finally-fixed-this-sites-single-post-display/
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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pdurbin snarfed: ah, cool, you even have https://snarfed.org/podcasts
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tantek !tell bear congrats on shipping your 2015-01-01 commitment https://bear.im/bearlog/2014/354/2015-01-01-indieweb-commitment as your 2015 archives seem to show! https://bear.im/bearlog/archives.html perhaps write a short note or blog post about what it took?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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snarfed pdurbin: too much free time, somehow :P
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pdurbin snarfed: and you're active at https://huffduffer.com/snarfed ... but do you use an API to post there? Or just use the web interface?
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GWG pdurbin: I suggested it because there is room for an Android version and it is scoped out
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snarfed pdurbin: active is an overstatement. i use youtube-dl way more than huffduffer; most one-offs i find are flash embeds, not mp3 dls
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Loqi GWG: tantek left you a message 4 minutes ago: do you feel you've built what you wanted for 2015-01-01? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-12-18#t1418962576242 i.e. improved reply-context including author icon and author name and kinds post/plugin? Did you post about these improvements?
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GWG snarfed: You doing that as pages in WordPress?
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snarfed GWG: yup. i have lots of pages. basically everything i want to post but not show on the front page
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GWG tantek: I'm here...I don't need a tell
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snarfed see https://snarfed.org/archive
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GWG snarfed: Interesting
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GWG Inspiring even
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tantek GWG - the questions stand! (from the tell : ) )
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snarfed nah, it's a silly unnecessary distinction, it's just what i started doing, and it's easy, so no motivation to change
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GWG tantek: I did that....but I broke something else
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Loqi [bridgy] Amy Guy favorited a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/quotation#Instead_use (https://twitter.com/t/status/551789064643698688)
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GWG tantek: Why do you think I suddenly went back to a themeless theme?
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tantek GWG - perhaps write that up in a short post - you got your ship commitment done, but broke some stuff, so now you've gone back to a themeless theme
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GWG tantek: My theme is rendering oddly because I made a hack to incorporate changes. So, I decided to build again.
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GWG Well, I'm still on the partially broken theme.
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GWG But I intend to
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tantek Good to do a checkpoint post about progress so far
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GWG I have to go to Boston tonight through tomorrow.
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GWG Maybe during my lunch break
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pdurbin GWG: I didn't realize you're in Boston too.
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tantek.com edited /archive (+197) "Indieweb example: snarfed" (view diff)
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GWG pdurbin: I'm not. I'm flying up from New York(where I am) tonight, and coming back tomorrow morning.
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GWG Family event.
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pdurbin ah
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tantek !tell aaronpk I finished going through all your examples of quotation-like posts that you added to the wiki, and adding analysis accordingly to the "Why" and "Instead of" sections on /quotation. In addition, in discussion with KartikPrabhu, I improved /bookmark accordingly as well. HTH for your posts!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm tantek: are you writing a follow up post about the 2015-001 challenges?
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kylewm (if not I think you should!)
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kylewm but I know that is non-trivial effort
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tantek kylewm: I am! And preparing for it by updating https://indiewebcamp.com/2015-01-01-commitments with people's results, posts about their shipping their commitments etc.
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GWG tantek: Every time you improve the wiki, I end up rewriting something
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tantek GWG - happy that I'm doing relevant work for you! :)
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kylewm ohh I can help with updating the wiki
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tantek kylewm: hence the pinging of folks about their progress - so I can add it to the wiki page. Yes that would be a big help!
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tantek Even just incorporating the back/forth above in the logs.
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tantek Thanks!
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tantek (I've been incorporating people's progress as subpoints under the *first mention of them* on that page - some folks are mentioned multiple times e.g. from IRC and then their own post in the dated posts section at the end)
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Loqi [bridgy] JimDabell favorited a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/quotation#Instead_use (https://twitter.com/t/status/551789064643698688)
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Loqi [bridgy] Egemen Åžentin favorited a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/quotation#Instead_use (https://twitter.com/t/status/551789064643698688)
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kylewm.com edited /2015-01-01-commitments (+623) "/* Commitments */ update my info" (view diff)
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GWG !tell aaronpk: You no longer use WordPress for bookmarks, right?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm.com edited /2015-01-01-commitments (+0) "/* Commitments */ oops move progress to *first mention on the page* per tantek's suggestion" (view diff)
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kylewm that's correct, GWG
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GWG What is?
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kylewm.com edited /2015-01-01-commitments (+553) "/* Commitments */ add bear, bret, KartikPrabhu updates" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /2015-01-01-commitments (+164) "/* Commitments */ add Charles Stanhope indiemark level1" (view diff)
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kylewm GWG: aaronpk is no longer using wordpress for bookmarks
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kylewm.com edited /2015-01-01-commitments (+267) "/* Commitments */ add mapkyca complete" (view diff)
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aaronpk Morning
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 30 minutes ago: I finished going through all your examples of quotation-like posts that you added to the wiki, and adding analysis accordingly to the "Why" and "Instead of" sections on /quotation. In addition, in discussion with KartikPrabhu, I improved /bookmark accordingly as well. HTH for your posts!
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Loqi aaronpk: GWG left you a message 20 minutes ago: You no longer use WordPress for bookmarks, right?
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aaronpk tantek: awesome!
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aaronpk GWG: correct. I think that is noted on /p3k now right? And there is a note on /Wordpress I thought
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /2015/Cambridge (+13) "/* Interested */" (view diff)
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GWG aaronpk: /bookmarks needs to be updated
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aaronpk ah
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rhiaro.co.uk created /Template:rhiaro (+30) "Created page with "[Amy Guy](http://rhiaro.co.uk)"" (view diff)
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@pchapuis @judofyr The Indie Web community. See e.g. http://indiewebcamp.com/h-entry (twitter.com/_/status/551807841087270912)
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Loqi [mention] http://stationaryjourney.com/website-update-january-04-2015/ linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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rhiaro had a bit of a mediawiki syntax crisis, sorry about the wikispam ^
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rascul rhiaro there is preview :)
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /2015 (+48) "/* Candidate Cities */" (view diff)
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rhiaro rascul: I was using preview, but still couldn't get it right :p
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@pchapuis Just blogged: Indie Web http://blog.separateconcerns.com/2015-01-04-indie-web.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/551818665914798080)
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david.shanske.com edited /bookmark (+42) (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /2015-01-01-commitments (+258) "/* Commitments */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /bookmark (+71) "add date of switching my bookmarks to p3k with link" (view diff)
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GWG How do you people remember when you did things?
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aaronpk I try to post a quick note when I make updates like that
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/09/07/1/indieweb-bookmarks
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aaronpk I never regret it later
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GWG That works.
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aaronpk if I forgot to, then I also can look through my commit history, but that's usually a ton more work
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GWG I need to do the little things that pay dividends.
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aaronpk yes. lots of small progress with small announcements has been far better for me than large milestones
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GWG Like many things, I'm afraid of annoying people.
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aaronpk annoying how?
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aaronpk too many posts? don't worry about it
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@clemnt RT @pchapuis: Just blogged: Indie Web http://blog.separateconcerns.com/2015-01-04-indie-web.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/551827425378988033)
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aaronpk people are good at skimming. and worst case they unfollow you, so whatever.
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aaronpk also sometimes I just post a note on my site and don't syndicate it anywhere
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GWG aaronpk: That was what I was thinking
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aaronpk syndicate to indienews if you want! that's a good place for that kind of stuff
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snarfed GWG: good timing re wp pages. that's what I often use them for: to publish something but omit it from the front page and feeds
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snarfed eg https://snarfed.org/indie-checkin-flow
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GWG I think I may go with not POSSEing.
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snarfed you can also use a plugin, eg Ultimate Category Excluder
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snarfed sure, sgtm
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GWG But, I'm going to try and document more.
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aaronpk documentingmore++
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Loqi documentingmore has 1 karma
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Loqi [mention] Barry Frost posted 'And so it’s time to launch a new version of my personal website, https://barryfrost.com. Over the last few weeks I’ve been building this new...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub (https://barryfrost.com/2015/01/a-new-site)
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Loqi [mention] Barry Frost posted 'And so it’s time to launch a new version of my personal website, https://barryfrost.com. Over the last few weeks I’ve been building this new...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com (https://barryfrost.com/2015/01/a-new-site)
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Loqi [mention] Barry Frost posted 'And so it’s time to launch a new version of my personal website, https://barryfrost.com. Over the last few weeks I’ve been building this new...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (https://barryfrost.com/2015/01/a-new-site)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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barryf Hello all. I wanted to share the new version of my site, https://barryfrost.com (sorry for the webmention spam)
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GWG Nice, barryf
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barryf Thanks GWG
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barryfrost.com edited /IRC_People (+98) "/* Nicknames */ Adding barryf" (view diff)
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aaronpk welcome barryf!
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barryf Hi aaronpk!
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aaronpk nice! you even accept "like" mentions properly :)
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barryf Great. Yes, hopefully all set up for likes.
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barryf I'm now also using Quill to post all my notes, likes and bookmarks.
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aaronpk oh great!
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kylewm snarfed: and I will chime in that I wish you had a feed with a little bit more granularity. I missed the checkin-flow post altogether!
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aaronpk kylewm: that is related to the last bit I am writing up for this latest blog post
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kylewm interesting
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aaronpk regarding readers
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kylewm look forward to reading it
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kylewm aaronpk: unrelated, how do you decide what date to cut off a "page" at in your stream. e.g. looking at notes, the second page starts at ?before=2014-12-08-1
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rascul [17:05] <FreezingCold> rascul: I wish sites started creating a curl friendly site.
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rascul guess what i'll be doing next for my site? ;)
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aaronpk rascul: try curling the IRC logs ;)
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rascul aaronpk i have :)
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aaronpk :D
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rascul i think i showed that to you with curl and grep awhile back
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aaronpk ohh yeah
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rascul or something of the sort
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aaronpk kylewm: my pages all show 20 posts. the second page "before" parameter is the code for the post at the top of the second page
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aaronpk so page 1 finds the 21st post and puts that as the URL of the previous page
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kylewm ah, so the location of the page break changes over time?
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aaronpk yeah, which is why the paging URLs are based on posts, not page numbers
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aaronpk so my list URLs are permalinks too, the contents of the pages won't change over time
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kylewm ohh, ok that makes sense!
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snarfed kylewm: point taken re more feeds
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pwcc Good morning all, hope you had a enjoyable break.
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snarfed my front page is "designed" for IRL friends, not online/tech/indieweb etc
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kylewm is there a technical reason to user query parameters for pagination rather than url components?
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aaronpk hm no I don't think so?
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snarfed kylewm: http caching is one
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aaronpk i thought you could cache just as well with both based on the cache headers
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snarfed right, just takes a bit more thought and work
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kylewm pwcc: to you as well! trying to figure out what tz you are in that it could be morning though :) hawaii?
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snarfed (kylewm: it's a hack, but if you subscribe to the indienews feed, i generally syndicate indieweb posts there)
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tantek kylewm: from a URL design perspective, it's better to both use URL segments (query params give the appearance of user-specific / tracking info), and for pagination in particular, to use date ranges so the meaning of such URLs stays the same over time.
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kylewm oh duh australia
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pwcc kylewm: correct, 5 points.
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aaronpk snarfed: kylewm: I've been toying with the idea of making lots of feeds for people to follow and making them more visible on my home page
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kylewm cool, url path + date-based-pagination is where i will go next with my things
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kylewm aaronpk++
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kylewm tantek++
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Loqi aaronpk has 645 karma
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Loqi tantek has 133 karma
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ben_thatmust tantek, /checkin/ works now
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ben_thatmust as well as /<anyotherposttype>
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snarfed aaronpk: yup, sounds like known and kylewm's? (among others?)
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ben_thatmust https://ben.thatmustbe.me/photo looks pretty nice
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aaronpk yeah I mean I currently have a ton of feed pages, both by post type and also all my tag pages
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aaronpk but calling these out more intentionally on the home page for one
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aaronpk but also making sort of "curated" feeds which may be a combination of tags, for example
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snarfed ah
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ben_thatmust i was looking in to it. i should be able to get photo posting from my android app in pretty easily
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barryf Is anyone using the Ruby Microformats2 parser? I've struggled with nested attributes being flattened, e.g. h-cite within h-entry
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@oncletom @aral @overflorian the problem is not the nerd culture itself. It can be any 'commoditized culture'. Like agile, apps and probably IndieWeb. (twitter.com/_/status/551867414225629184)
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aaronpk barryf: yes i've used it
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aaronpk there are some weird things about it for sure
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pwcc @aaronpk: like the consistent list pages. I might need to borrow that idea.
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barryf aaronpk Agreed. I think I may switch to the php-mf2 parser and consume the JSON
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aaronpk barryf: the ruby parser has a to_hash method which just returns the raw parsed structure
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aaronpk i had to drop down to that for webmention.io
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aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.io/blob/master/helpers/webmention_processor.rb#L232
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barryf Ah thanks. Yes that looks familiar. I'll try that.
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aaronpk there's an issue filed for it too https://github.com/G5/microformats2/issues/31
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kylewm shew that parser needs some love
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barryf aaronpk: good to know there's a workaround
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aaronpk kylewm: yes it does. also this is a great example of why I am not a fan of Ruby peoples' inclinations to do "magic" things https://github.com/G5/microformats2/issues/29
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GWG Okay, kylewm once again is featured in a design post
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GWG https://david.shanske.com/2015/01/04/updated-response-display/
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snarfed aaronpk++ debugging that ruby "magic" cost me most of the time it took to implement the new wmio notifs
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Loqi aaronpk has 646 karma
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kylewm aaronpk: heh yes, they want their code to read like prose
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aaronpk incidentally, I am super impressed with barnaby's PHP parser, which *only* turns the html into a data structure and provides no other magic
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aaronpk anything beyond parsing should be handled by a separate library
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GWG kylewm: I hope it doesn't bother you.
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kylewm have you done any benchmarking on how fast the parser is compared to jsut parsing the xml?
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kylewm GWG: you're more than welcome to test with my face always
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GWG Oky
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kylewm (I ask because I tried to compare mf2py to lxml by itself, and it was several of orders of magnitude slower)
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kylewm but i'm not totally sure i was exercising the xml parser fully... maybe it was doing some stuff lazily, etc.
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aaronpk no i have no idea. I'm also not super concerned with parsing speed because it's super unlikely it's at all significant compared to making the outgoing HTTP request to fetch the page
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kylewm it seems significant if you wanted to store data in mf2 formatted html
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aaronpk parsing on every page view?
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kylewm yeah
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aaronpk maybe, hadn't thought about that
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kylewm that's what tantek does right? just with xpath instead of a full blown parser
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aaronpk I store both the full HTML page and the parsed version as JSON
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aaronpk that way I can re-parse the HTML if the parser is updated if needed
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aaronpk the json version is kind of a cache. I didn't really think about it, but decided to store it rather than parse the html on every page load
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pwcc as an aside, is it correct only way to work out the type of web mention is by parsing the source?
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aaronpk yes, the only thing webmention itself provides is the source and target URLs (and /vouch if you're into that)
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pwcc @aaronpk++ thanks, slowly working out the standard.
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GWG Hello, pwcc
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pwcc Hi GWG
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tantek pwcc, no need for the @ in here :)
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tantek or rather - in the logs, @-references are hardcoded to Twitter profiles since they're the most popular @-space.
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pwcc tantek, oh cool. Somehow an IRC n00b, despite using 20 years on the internets.
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aaronpk prepare for an onslaught of webmentions
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prtksxna forages http requests
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pwcc spent the last few days attempting to write a simplified wp-admin interface for notes. ATM have double entry.
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pwcc GWG can share ^^ once it's nice.
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki posted 'The core principle of the IndieWeb is to own your data by creating content on your own domain with permalinks you control, rather than creat...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/principles (https://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/01/04/1/owning-my-data-in-2014)
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki posted 'The core principle of the IndieWeb is to own your data by creating content on your own domain with permalinks you control, rather than creat...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/silo (https://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/01/04/1/owning-my-data-in-2014)
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki posted 'The core principle of the IndieWeb is to own your data by creating content on your own domain with permalinks you control, rather than creat...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/SF (https://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/01/04/1/owning-my-data-in-2014)
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki posted 'The core principle of the IndieWeb is to own your data by creating content on your own domain with permalinks you control, rather than creat...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (https://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/01/04/1/owning-my-data-in-2014)
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tantek oh boy
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki posted 'The core principle of the IndieWeb is to own your data by creating content on your own domain with permalinks you control, rather than creat...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/repost (https://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/01/04/1/owning-my-data-in-2014)
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki posted 'The core principle of the IndieWeb is to own your data by creating content on your own domain with permalinks you control, rather than creat...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015-01-01-commitments (https://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/01/04/1/owning-my-data-in-2014)
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki posted 'The core principle of the IndieWeb is to own your data by creating content on your own domain with permalinks you control, rather than creat...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/reader#IndieWeb_examples (https://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/01/04/1/owning-my-data-in-2014)
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aaronpk whee
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aaronpk i linked to a lot of wiki pages
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aaronpk I also just webmentioned myself a zillion times
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aaronpk now time to manually POSSE to various places since I don't have a button for that for blog posts
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pwcc setting up an people content type so notes @-mention will convert to "full name <site>' in the stream.
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@aaronpk Owning My Data in 2014 #indieweb http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/01/04/1/owning-my-data-in-2014 (twitter.com/_/status/551879400497500160)
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tantek pwcc++ nice!
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Loqi pwcc has 2 karma
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tantek aaronpk++ that's an epic blog post. my goodness you got a lot done in 2014.
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Loqi aaronpk has 647 karma
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aaronpk thanks!!
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tantek now go update https://indiewebcamp.com/ownyourdata#Aaron_Parecki !!!
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aaronpk yeah I didn't really realize how much I had done til I started collecting all the examples!
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pwcc Humans will be a private content type at first, but thought it'd be nice to try out even better in /note#Autolinking_and_embedding
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@benrigas @aaronpk very cool! I've been kicking similar ideas around my head for a while but didn't know about IndieWeb until now (twitter.com/_/status/551881378585792512)
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aaronpk I hope the webmention storm was worth it :)
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aaronpk huh, trying to figure out the earliest date I posted articles to my own site
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aaronpk there is a post on my website from 1999 which doesn't exist anywhere else... does that count? it's not a "blog" entry though.
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aaronpk it's not an article, so maybe no
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pwcc aaronpk got a link? I'm impressed with any content from '99
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tantek kylewm belated reply yes I use DOMDocument and DOMXPath - noting in Falcon storage now...
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aaronpk pwcc: it's kind of embarrasing
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pwcc aaronpk: they always are. I reread a bunch of my 2008 posts recently. The shame...
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+443) "/* Storage format */ Updated and simplified for 2015, with back compat for older storage files" (view diff)
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aaronpk pwcc: http://thingsido.aaronparecki.com/school/grade9/tragedyandcomedy/
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tantek kylewm: https://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#Storage_format
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pwcc aaronpk: I like that, it has a lot of heart. I reckon it counts as owned content :)
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aaronpk it's not quite an article though
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colintedford aaronpk: It certainly has structure and a title.
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Loqi colintedford: tantek left you a message 6 hours, 18 minutes ago: nicely done with your 2015-01-01 commitment! http://colintedford.com/2014/12/31.2156-i-finally-fixed-this-sites-single-post-display/
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aaronpk i guess it's an article? but certainly not part of by "blog" (or whatever they were called in 1999)
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aaronparecki.com edited /own_your_data (+934) "/* Aaron Parecki */ update my "own your data" section with a bunch more types and references" (view diff)
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colintedford Hm, I see. An /article is a /post, which I think from the way "post" is contrasted with /page (no wiki page for that) is maybe meant to mean "part of a blog" (in the sense of series of timestamped posts).
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pwcc Who imported previous silo content when converting to indie? I have 17,000 rows of data I'm not sure what to do with :)
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colintedford But it's not explicit about it, so it maybe fits the letter if not spirit.