#indiewebcamp 2015-01-04

2015-01-04 UTC
#
KartikPrabhu
tantek: on your homepage the like cluster with "likes Doc Searls's Linux Journal article “Hats Off to Mozilla”" has a permalink on the cluster date that goes to the wrong things
#
tantek
was *just* fixing that!
#
KartikPrabhu
aah ok cool! I like the cluster display in home stream
#
tantek
(testing locally)
#
tantek
and reload homepage
#
KartikPrabhu
now it leads to more than the listed likes
#
KartikPrabhu
for instance the second like cluster with NovemberProjectSF... leads to a page where the first few likes are not the same ones
#
tantek
right the date link leads to all likes for that date
#
tantek
right now it's just a flat expanded list
#
tantek
however, having separate page like that for all posts of a certain type on that day gives me the flexibility to style / design them nicer for that post type
#
tantek
that's actually new functionality as of this year that works for any of the post types on my site
#
tantek
e.g if you put a 't' at the end instead of an 'f' you'll see *only* the text notes
#
tantek
from that day
#
KartikPrabhu
yup. got that part :)
#
ben_thatmust
its really rough yes, but it works
#
ben_thatmust
and it should be extremely easy to port to iOS, windows phone, and a number of other systems
#
ben_thatmust
thanks to cordova/phonegap
friedcell joined the channel
#
tantek
after wrestling with my u-syndication parsing/generation code flow, and rewriting a bunch of it to be smaller and more general purpose, I have an example of a like with a u-syndication link
#
tantek
now to go back and add public like syndication URLs :/
#
tantek
so I'm doing this manually right now by checking my /allactivity on FB, scrolling to find the like post, hover over it to see a timestamp appear, right-click on the timestamp to get the permalink of the like post on FB
#
tantek
which is obviously too much work
#
tantek
so I'm hoping Bridgy Publish can be fixed to return a permalink of the like post
#
tantek
when it POSSEs a like to FB
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
ben_thatmust
yeah that would be very nice to have
#
tantek
and I've now confirmed that all the Bridgy Publish POSSE likes of FB posts did show up in my /allactivity, and I've linked all of them from my original like posts
#
tantek
I had to add them manually to storage (editing an HTML file)
#
tantek
ok I don't see a Bridgy Publish issue on this so I'll add one
#
tantek.com
edited /Falcon (+151) "/* auto Bridgy POSSE to FB */ note issue with getting permalinks from Bridgy for FB POSSE likes"
(view diff)
#
ben_thatmust
if anyone else is interested in trying out the Micropub android app, i'll send you an apk. its REALLY rough though
#
ben_thatmust
if someone is set up for ios dev you can build it too
#
ben_thatmust
github repo coming soon
#
tantek.com
edited /Falcon (+0) "/* auto Bridgy POSSE to FB */ list fix"
(view diff)
#
tantek
just realized my 2015-001 ship commitment was quite a spur of the moment decision, I'd not yet documented "owning my likes" as Working On or an Itch! Closest was https://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#implement_reposts_of_tweets
#
snarfed
re FB like permalinks, if anyone knows how to get or generate them from the API, please let us know! https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/334
#
tantek.com
edited /Falcon (+121) "/* auto Bridgy POSSE to FB */ note bridgy issue 331"
(view diff)
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
Loqi
KevinMarks_: voxpelli left you a message 12 hours, 25 minutes ago: I pushed a quick fix now for the duplicated text in the mentions on your site – it displays a sensible default now rather than the imported like/repost text
#
snarfed
huh funny, https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/305 is related - fb links with colons
#
tantek
yeah! all the like permalinks had colons in them
#
KevinMarks_
looks good voxpelli - I should try the facepile too
#
snarfed
…reading closer, not really related though. th like links had small numbers after the colon, e.g. 6, and that issue has one with probably an id
#
tantek
well the ones I found in /allactivity anyway
#
tantek
removing the : and number afterwards shows a *different* like!
#
tantek
from two days earlier1
#
tantek
s/earlier1/earlier!
#
Loqi
tantek meant to say: from two days earlier!
#
tantek
I'm looking at the syndication of this post in particular: http://tantek.com/2015/002/f1
#
snarfed
the api's /[user id]/likes returns a user's likes, but i don't see anything related to the permalinks
#
snarfed
and those are just likes of pages, not post :/
#
tantek
there's no "allactivity" in the API?
#
snarfed
maybe! i'm just narrating as a go
#
snarfed
>2.5y old, but still
#
tantek
I'm assuming you don't want to scrap facebook.com/me/allactivity ?
#
tantek
s/scrap/scrape
#
Loqi
tantek meant to say: I'm assuming you don't want to scrape facebook.com/me/allactivity ?
#
ben_thatmust
is indieauth.com having problems?
#
snarfed
tantek: lol. i'd have to ask for or generate a facebook auth cookie, so no, that's probably a non starter
#
ben_thatmust
indieauth isn't loading for me :(
#
tantek
class="uiLinkSubtle"
snarfed and mlncn-agaric joined the channel
#
tantek.com
edited /quotation (+656) "quotation as reminder is still just a bookmark"
(view diff)
#
KevinMarks_
Is the google openid 2 shutdown an indieauth adoption opportunity?
#
KevinMarks_
As indieauth supports openid 2 login
#
ben_thatmust
okay, its definitely not me, indieauth.com isn't loading is it
#
ben_thatmust
jus ttried from a remote machine
#
KevinMarks_
I bet we could write shorter migration steps than Google's
#
tantek.com
edited /Falcon (+1083) "/* Working On */ improve like posts"
(view diff)
#
KevinMarks_
Not working for me either
#
ben_thatmust
maybe its time for an alternative, shake out all those apps that always use indieauth instead of a site's preference
#
rascul
also down for me
#
tantek
KevinMarks could you add all that to /OpenID ?
#
tantek
and perhaps /Google ?
#
ben_thatmust
(assuming you can login to the wiki)
#
KevinMarks_
That's hard enough on the phone anyway
#
kylewm
snarfed: it's not looking for for FB like permalinks ... i tried creating one and then bubbling back up to the liked photo, and nothing
#
kylewm
s/for for/good for
#
Loqi
kylewm meant to say: snarfed: it's not looking good for FB like permalinks ... i tried creating one and then bubbling back up to the liked photo, and nothing
#
ben_thatmust
KevinMarks_ while i have you. what you some things you might like from an android MP client?
#
kylewm
ben_thatmust: photo upload!!
#
KevinMarks_
Ltd love to try it
#
KevinMarks_
I use known as a web app for that
#
kylewm
KevinMarks_: it can't resize though (right?)
benwerd joined the channel
#
snarfed
kylewm: thanks for looking! what do you mean by "bubbling back up?"
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
KevinMarks_
Do send me info on the app, I was going to change my notifications one and it would be good to work out urls to communicate
#
KevinMarks_
And I have a nexus 6 to test on now
#
ben_thatmust
kylewm, sounds like a good idea its definitely possible http://plugins.cordova.io/#/package/org.apache.cordova.camera
#
kylewm
snarfed: I just mean I POSTed to {post-id}/likes, it returned {'success': true}, and then i tried looking {post-id}/likes and {post-id}
#
ben_thatmust
just initial proof of concept, there is lots to do
#
ben_thatmust
i'll add info on how to build to the readme.md soon, basically just follow the cordova tutorial and you should be able to get there
colintedford joined the channel
#
ben_thatmust
currently only 1 field (content) and the syndicate-to is hard-coded (next to fix)
#
ben_thatmust
but indieauth works on it (if indieauth.com would come back up)
#
ben_thatmust
okay afk for a bit
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
snarfed
kylewm: got it, thanks. np, we can deprioritize…plenty of others on https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Anow to tackle
#
snarfed
kylewm: speaking of which…you mentioned posseing instagram likes? :P
#
kylewm
snarfed: yeah! i added it to redwind today
#
snarfed
oh nice!
#
snarfed
do you use an ig api lib or the rest api directly?
#
kylewm
oh, directly
#
snarfed
good call. wish i'd done that to start with.
#
kylewm
hmm, yeah i hear ya
#
kylewm
is there any prior art for link-previews on like posts? it's not obvious how to mark them up, unless it's p-like-of h-cite (like reply context)
benjamin-agaric joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu
that's what I'd do
#
kylewm
ok so when tantek said "there's no such thing as like context", that was just a semantic distinction
#
GWG
kylewm: I think the term he used was link preview
#
kylewm
GWG: it was, i just didn't know if there was a markup distinction
#
GWG
kylewm: I've long been lost.
#
aaronpk
indieauth.com is fine for me... is it still down for anyone?
#
kylewm
aaronpk: lgtm
#
kylewm
maybe I spoke too soon...
#
aaronpk
srsly?
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
ben_thatmust
its back for me
#
rascul
yeah back now
#
kylewm
it seems very slow to me?
#
kylewm
snarfed: to double check, we'd need to turn on the publish switch for instagram so that users can authorize bridgy to publish on their behalf and then just implement the -> like api calls?
#
kylewm
i'm happy to take a look at that one... makes sense since i just did it locally
#
snarfed
kylewm: awesome, thanks! yeah, that's what i think. i expect there are at least a few more places that have [fb, tw] hard coded somehow that we'd need to update, e.g. in the ui, but manual testing should flush them out
tantek and jgee joined the channel
#
ben_thatmust
for those who want to see if there are any problems. Don't expect the syndicate-to to be right for you, thats how i use it
tgbrun, j12t and cmhobbs joined the channel
#
tantek
has anyone run their own website / a web server from a mobile batteries only situation like with a mifi for network access?
#
GWG
Not permanently.
#
GWG
You have the same program you do with any ISP service
#
tantek
just wondering how hard it is (if even possible) to route a domain name through a mifi and to a device on its network
#
GWG
Possibly Changing IP
#
tantek
are there mifis with static IP?
#
tantek
either way - I'm curious about it
#
GWG
That I've never looked into
#
tantek
would be interesting to try - and then design for - that is - the web of temporarily connected things
#
tantek
see how well all our protocols etc. hold up in such situations
#
snarfed
tantek: sounds like dynamic dns
#
tantek
snarfed, that would likely need to be part of it
#
GWG
There's always IPV6
#
tantek
but I mean what to do when the dns doesn't actually resolve because the device is not always online
#
tantek
I don't know how IPV6 makes any difference in the "sometimes connected" use-case I'm talking about. GWG, do you know how IPV6 could help?
#
snarfed
ah. sure. that's a product/design/policy question
#
tantek
hence a question of can our protocols handle it
#
tantek
and do something intelligent from the UX perspective
#
snarfed
i vaguely remember hearing people who'd set up a cdn as a fallback
#
tantek
imagine your simple webhost as the CDN, while the "main" server is the mobile thing with you
#
tantek
client-server-server architecture as it were
#
tantek
anyway mostly wanted to see who if anyone has run a website from a mifi
#
aaronpk
I was scheming a design like that a while ago, also potentially serving the site from a home internet connection
#
aaronpk
using the CDN as the public facing server, which would serve the latest cached content if the backend is unavailable
#
aaronpk
kind of gets into the realm of designing a service that can continue to function if the database or storage mechanism is offline
#
snarfed
static site generators kind of do that
#
aaronpk
also similar to the kids who would temporarily disable their facebook accounts when they were AFK
#
snarfed
so do caching solutions that store/serve long-lived cached pages on disk
#
aaronpk
so that people couldn't interact with their digital representations while their real-life selves were not online
#
tantek
whoa that's fascinating
#
aaronpk
"...when she’s not logged in, no one can post messages on her wall or send her messages privately or browse her content. But when she’s logged in, they can do all of that."
#
tantek
what is super logoff?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "super logoff" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=super+logoff
#
tantek
aaronpk ^^^ go for it - stub it with that article!
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
tantek
that second scenario - where the person is deleting content after they've processed it or after it's aged a certain amount - I wonder if simply archive it as "private" (visible only to her) would be sufficient. that way she could personally search/reference it while to everyone else it would look deleted.
#
tantek
what is ephemeral?
#
aaronpk
what's the proper header to reference sources?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "ephemeral" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=ephemeral
#
GWG
tantek: It's designed to cover the IPs of the increasing number of mobile devices.
#
GWG
I was thinking in terms of addressing
#
tantek
aaronpk - just drop a link
#
tantek
or if you really want - h-cite
#
aaronpk
See Also?
#
tantek
GWG - I know the basics of IPV6 - I was asking if you brought it up for a specific applicable reason to the use-case.
#
ben_thatmust
aaronpk, indieauth is giving me trouble again
#
aaronpk
ben_thatmust: what's up?
#
aaronpk
the ssl thing again?
#
ben_thatmust
no, just sits loading
#
aaronpk
oh weird
#
ben_thatmust
--2015-01-03 22:46:54-- https://indieauth.com/
#
ben_thatmust
Resolving indieauth.com... 173.230.155.197
#
ben_thatmust
Connecting to indieauth.com|173.230.155.197|:443... connected.
#
ben_thatmust
HTTP request sent, awaiting response...
#
aaronpk
odd, there are only two processes running but there should be 10
#
ben_thatmust
this is what was happening earlier too
#
tantek.com
edited /expiring_content (+15) "mention ephemeral so it can be found via search"
(view diff)
#
tantek.com
created /ephemeral (+30) "r"
(view diff)
#
tantek
I knew I'd written something about this before
#
aaronparecki.com
created /super_logoff (+397) "stub with dfn and sources"
(view diff)
#
tantek
aaronpk - yes see also is a good catch all. but in this case you can cite it directly in the dfn since it's a defining article
#
tantek
or put it both places
#
aaronpk
ben_thatmust: I wonder if I'd have better luck running this as its own app rather than via passenger
#
tantek.com
edited /Facebook (+19) "/* See Also */ super logoff"
(view diff)
#
kylewm
huh, I do the "delete old Facebook posts" thing
#
tantek
kylewm - why delete instead of make private (your eyes only) ?
#
kylewm
not quite to the same extreme
#
ben_thatmust
aaronpk, possibly, i've had problems with passenger in the past
#
aaronpk
I just don't know why it's not running 10 of them like I'mt elling it to
#
aaronpk
let me see if I can switch it out quick
#
kylewm
tantek: guess I'm hoping they will delete it from their servers eventually
#
tantek
what is delete?
#
tantek.com
edited /report_abuse (+185) "/* Instagram User */ expand This profile is pretending to be someone else, more incremental documentation"
(view diff)
#
tantek.com
edited /deleted (+179) "why - numerous reasons, e.g. hoping others will delete from their servers eventually per kylewm"
(view diff)
#
tantek.com
edited /super_logoff (+56) "in particular silo, see also FB"
(view diff)
#
tantek
what is do not disturb?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "do not disturb" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=do+not+disturb
#
tantek
it seems to me that "super logoff" is basically a "do not disturb" hack
#
tantek
imagine if the "Do Not Disturb" crescent moon button in the iOS swipe-up overlay UI did exactly that with all your online profiles - disable *all* interactions with them.
#
ben_thatmust
still no luck aaronpk?
#
tantek
I've thought about how a "Do Not Disturb" button would/should work with indie /comms - that is, being able to push a "Do Not Disturb" button/setting on your website, and have it disable all the interruptive methods of communication on your /contact page (perhaps only allowing non-interruptive / store & forward methods like email)
#
aaronpk
ben_thatmust: almost got it
#
aaronpk
it's way faster with puma
#
ben_thatmust
now do i dare tell you i got a quill error?
#
aaronpk
hang on it's not live yet :)
#
ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /User:Ben.thatmustbe.me (+468) "add Micropublish project"
(view diff)
#
aaronpk
ben_thatmust: okay it's running now
#
aaronpk
i think it's faster too
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
aaronpk
although for some reason github auth doesn't work now
#
aaronpk
it's like it's hanging trying to make a request to github.com
#
aaronpk
i have no idea why it would do that
#
aaronpk
well now it seems to be fine
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
ben_thatmust
aaronpk, now as to other issue... http://pastebin.com/XU5UTecD
#
aaronpk
oh dear
#
ben_thatmust
i was trying to set up discovery of my endpoints
#
ben_thatmust
err syndication targets
#
aaronpk
oh that's cause i haven't updated quill to work with array syntax for syndicat-to
#
aaronpk
this should be an easy fix... one sec
#
aaronpk
man, rapidly switching between ruby and php is confusing
#
aaronpk
ben_thatmust: can you try it again?
#
ben_thatmust
that worked
#
ben_thatmust
and now i know that my micropub?q=syndicate-to works right
#
ben_thatmust
thats the next bit I want to add to the app
j12t joined the channel
#
ben_thatmust
off to bed, goodnight guys
#
Loqi
goodnight!
#
tantek
good night ben_thatmust!
#
GWG
tantek: How do I write Ting as an Indieweb thing?
#
tantek
GWG they're a service provider, like a web host.
#
GWG
Yes, but no one has written up Verizon and so on
#
GWG
I may ask for your feedback.
#
tantek
what is comcast?
#
Loqi
Comcast is a service provider that provides internet access to businesses and personal homes https://indiewebcamp.com/Comcast
#
tantek
GWG - there you go
wolftune joined the channel
#
david.shanske.com
created /Ting (+991) "Created page with "<dfn>[https://ting.com Ting]</dfn> is a mobile virtual network provider(MVNO) owned by TUCOWS launched in February of 2012. Ting is characterized by a per-unit usage model where ...""
(view diff)
#
GWG
How's that?
#
GWG
I hate to feel like I'm advertising.
#
GWG
I do like these people though
#
tantek
GWG, good start! If you're worried about advertising, I'd say drop the referral link, and instead add an IndieWeb Examples section and add yourself as a user - just note people can ping you in IRC if they want a referral link.
#
GWG
There
#
GWG
Indieweb Examples in
#
tantek
ok. I'm going to drop the referral link because that's a common spam pattern and even though I know that is not your intent at all, it can appear that way to others who may find the page without context
#
GWG
Okay. Not a problem.
#
GWG
I'll make the correction
#
tantek.com
edited /Ting (+63) "minor tweaks"
(view diff)
#
tantek
great - appreciated
#
david.shanske.com
edited /Ting (-46) "/* Indieweb Examples */"
(view diff)
#
GWG
I'll just stick to writing Indieweb WordPress stuff, I think
#
colintedford.com
edited /User:Colintedford.com (+61) "Moved "microformats 2"
(view diff)
#
kylewm
can someone else check the Instagram website to see if the "Embed" option is missing? it's supposed to be there... http://instagram.com/developer/embedding/#
#
aaronpk
kylewm: I see it
#
tantek
depends on JS?
#
aaronpk
one of my photos anyway
#
tantek
what is embed?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "embed" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=embed
#
kylewm
oh good call, aaronpk i wasn't looking at my own photos
#
kylewm
the embed doesn't seem to work when I copy it somewhere else though...
#
colintedford
Or any of the adr related stuff?
yakker joined the channel
#
bret
colintedford: i'm not sure
#
bret
but any of the generic MF2 parsers should
#
colintedford
Thanks, bret.
#
colintedford
Those pick 'em up; looks like indiewebify.me doesn't check physical address properties.
#
tantek
colintedford: what do you suggest that it check?
#
colintedford
tantek: all the h-card stuff! :)
#
colintedford
I have p-post-office-box, p-locality, p-region, & p-postal-code & they didn
#
colintedford
't show up.
#
tantek
ah, you're looking for a general h-card validator
#
tantek
beyond the minimum for the indieweb
#
colintedford
Yeah, I didn't realize it just checked a subset.
#
colintedford
A note re: that would be fine; I was just confused/worried when the "h-card validator" didn't pik up some of my stuff.
#
tantek
yes that makes sense
#
colintedford.com
edited /h-card (+90) "/* Validators */ indiewebify me doesn't check whole h-card"
(view diff)
#
colintedford.com
edited /User:Colintedford.com (-25) "(accidentally submitted last edit) Moved "microformats 2" & "date archives" from "Wants" to "Working on", expanded mf2, marked h-card done, rm extra "https".."
(view diff)
prtksxna joined the channel
#
tantek
colintedford: thanks much for filing that issue!
#
colintedford
No problem!
#
KartikPrabhu
Twitter notifications are weird! everytime I go to the page it show me something different!
#
KartikPrabhu
anyone else notice that?
#
tantek.com
edited /quotation (+23) "/* bookmark */ improve wording"
(view diff)
j12t joined the channel
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: do you have an indieweb version of this post? https://plus.google.com/+KartikPrabhu/posts/UzKErSbfmHq
#
KartikPrabhu
tantek: unfortunately haven't got to importing all my silo stuff yet... do you need an indieweb version... I can make it now
#
tantek
which I'm trying to intuit whether it truly is just a /bookmark (with a quote as a reminder / summary of what the bookmark is about), or it is a /quotation that was deliberately extracted to share
#
tantek
I'm going to guess that the intent and primary content was the quotation more than the bookmark, which is just there as information about the quotation.
#
KartikPrabhu
tantek: i suspect those are quotations
#
tantek
backdated and everything
#
KartikPrabhu
had to do it manually but haven't found a good G+ import tool yet
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu - any luck with a batch Google Takeout importer?
#
KartikPrabhu
I have used that... but it seems it gives some sort of XML thing that I have to code to import into my db-system
#
KartikPrabhu
I am waiting to finish my notes-file-storage so I can write that code instead of the DB one
#
KartikPrabhu
turns out if you edit>copy the text in your G+ posts, the #tags don't get copied as plaintext because they are links! Thanks Google!
#
tantek
perhaps code to import it into flat h-entrys - then anyone else can re-use it to import from that
#
KartikPrabhu
tantek: yes. my file-storage is html+mf2 based ;)
#
KartikPrabhu
thinks it is weird how fast I can PESOS with his horrible posting UI
#
Loqi
KartikPrabhu meant to say: thinks it is weird how fast his can PESOS with his horrible posting Uhis
#
tantek
Loqi, what are Uhis?
#
colintedford
I had a case of the Posting Uhis once.
#
tantek.com
edited /quotation (+355) "/* Aaron Parecki */ note which bookmarks are more like quotation posts, and note which one isn't"
(view diff)
#
KartikPrabhu
lol that sub messed up on many levels
eburcat joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu
tantek: I would tend to make a fragmentioned-bookmark as equivalent to a quotation. that sound reasonable?
#
tantek
not at all
#
KartikPrabhu
what is quotation?
#
Loqi
A quotation is a type of post that is primarily a subset of the contents of another post, and often has a citation of that other post https://indiewebcamp.com/quotation
#
KartikPrabhu
tantek: according to that defn it seems to fit ^
#
tantek
it does not because of the key word "primarily"
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu
hmm so what does the primarily denote?
#
KartikPrabhu
isn't that what bookmarking a fragmentioned-url represent?
#
colintedford
Not if you want to bookmark a point in a long document.
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu
currently I see no mechanism to bookmark a particular point
#
KartikPrabhu
fragmention explicitly refers to some text
#
tantek
it refers to a starting point in some text
#
tantek
whereas a quotation refers to a chunk of text with discrete start *and* end
#
colintedford
Right, it's like making your own fragment identifier.
#
KartikPrabhu
so it seems we have no easier way to post quotations than to manually copy-past the whole text... ?
#
tantek
hard to prove "no easier way" :P
#
KartikPrabhu
I was thinking use a fragmentioned-url as link in bookmark ( only URL to copy-paste ) then have your micropub interpret it as a quotation
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: a bookmark with a fragmention is still just a bookmark
#
KartikPrabhu
hmmm... maybe I still don't get the distinction
#
KartikPrabhu
the intent of both seems the same
#
tantek
the distinction is the focus and primary intent
#
tantek
not at all
#
tantek
totally different
#
KartikPrabhu
so maybe the intent should be in the defn
#
KartikPrabhu
what is bookmark?
#
Loqi
A bookmark (or linkblog) is a post that is typically comprised of a URL and optional text accompanying it https://indiewebcamp.com/bookmark
#
tantek
the intent of a /quotation is that it makes sense even out of context, shared on its own. hence *primarily a subset of the contents*
#
KartikPrabhu
neither of the defns capture the user-intent
#
tantek
primarily captures intent
#
KartikPrabhu
no. "makes sense out of context" implies some intent
#
tantek
and "optional text" makes it clear that that text is secondary
#
KartikPrabhu
primarily does not mean anything. atleast to me
#
tantek
thus both definitions already indicate what matters the most to each
#
tantek
primarily means more than secondarily
#
tantek
means more than other things. first second third.
#
KartikPrabhu
hmm maybe I just want to post bookmarks
#
tantek
optional clearly indicates not primary
#
tantek
though the bookmark dfn can be improved
#
KartikPrabhu
also words like "typically" are confusing. Am I supposed to be typical or not?
#
KartikPrabhu
I know I am free to not follow these defns and I have not in the past
#
tantek
right, typically is bad and I'm fixing that now
#
tantek.com
edited /bookmark (-86) "make it clear bookmark is primarily about the URL, and other aspects are secondary even if often"
(view diff)
#
tantek
what is a bookmark
#
Loqi
A bookmark (or linkblog) is a post that is primarily comprised of a URL, often title text from that URL, sometimes optional text describing or quoting from its contents https://indiewebcamp.com/bookmark
#
tantek.com
edited /bookmark (-34) "collapse further"
(view diff)
#
@t
#indieweb building blocks reply-context, fragmentions, marginalia help distinguish quotations: http://indiewebcamp.com/quotation#Why (ttk.me t4Zy1)
(twitter.com/_/status/551649193639813120)
#
KartikPrabhu
tantek: since you are proposing text-first design, how do I text-first design something like this: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/facets-visions I have no idea what goes as the alt-text in those images
#
tantek
how would you describe that page to someone over the phone?
#
KartikPrabhu
no idea. I would not :P
#
KartikPrabhu
the content in that is purely visual.
#
KartikPrabhu
i would not attempt to describe abstract photogrpahy over a phone
#
@kevinmarks
RT @t: #indieweb building blocks reply-context, fragmentions, marginalia help distinguish quotations: http://indiewebcamp.com/quotation#Why (ttk.me t4Zy1)
(twitter.com/_/status/551650199915884544)
#
tantek
I think there's already an FAQ somewhere on how to write good image descriptions
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: appears to be multiple exposures of a cityscape at night, the lights from lamp posts appearing particularly bright, so much so as to nearly obscure anything else's details, all a bit blurry as if in a light fog.
#
tantek
There should always be a way of describing something visual to someone over the phone. That's what language is for - describing things, visual, conceptual, etc.
#
KartikPrabhu
tantek: appears to be yes. but all of those are wrong! ;)
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: all the more reason you should describe what's *actually* going on in the photos!
#
KartikPrabhu
no! that is the point... if i actually descirbe the "method" the "point" of the photo is lost
#
tantek
Ah, you're going all modern art on this, I see.
#
tantek
Perhaps then do as Monet did. Lights 1. Lights 2. Lights 3.
#
KartikPrabhu
same reason this featured image has no good alt-text: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/science-in-science-fiction
#
KartikPrabhu
i can't say "ufo" because that is wrong, and I can't say "frying pan with water from a faucet turned upside down"
#
KartikPrabhu
more actual artists should be on this channel!
#
tantek
Grainy greyscale photographic image showing what appears to be the underside of something disc shaped with lines radiating from near the center where there is a bright white vertical cylindrical shape, slightly wider at the top, appearing to either support the disc or a flow of energy onto the underside of the disc which is then radially dispersed outward upon contact with the disc.
#
tantek
part of being a scientist is being able to deconstruct observations :P
#
colintedford
"A disc with a bright column descending from its center, in grainy black & white."
#
KartikPrabhu
i am not sure that helps "text-first" design or screen readers
#
KartikPrabhu
colintedford: oh that is good
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: helps both. Just as a plain text science fiction book can conjur incredible images in the minds eye
#
tantek
text first design is essentially "be a good writer" ;)
#
colintedford
KartikPrabhu: Thanks :)
#
KartikPrabhu
tantek: I am just thinking that some images don't have a good text representation by their very nature
#
colintedford
alt="I'm sorry, I don't know how to describe this :("
#
KartikPrabhu
colintedford: lol that is the problem. alt-text is supposed to be useful for people who can't see the images. But very very hard to do with some images where the visuals are the whole point
#
colintedford
KartikPrabhu: Yeah, I make comics (though usually not abstract) so I've had to spend more time than I'd like thinking about how to adequately represent visual stuff in text.
#
colintedford
(for transcript / longdesc )
#
KartikPrabhu
colintedford: yes. I did see your comics. no wonder you got the ufo :)
#
colintedford
I suspect sometimes you just have to settle for text that just sort of does the job.
#
tantek
"don't have a good text representation" -> that's just a challenge for a creative writer
#
KartikPrabhu
possibly. but sometimes I am just mistified
#
KartikPrabhu
mystified*
#
colintedford
E.g. "Soft faceted possible cityscapes with big glowing lights"
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: there's an art to deconstructing visual images and describing them
#
KartikPrabhu
of course
#
tantek
no reason to expect to be easy
#
colintedford
It can be frustrating, for sure.
#
colintedford
But presumably not as much as being blind in a world of scanty alt text ;)
#
tantek
just as not everyone can easily write HTML, CSS, and/or JS.
#
tantek
and like many things - practice helps improve the skills
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: just try writing simple even if incomplete text equivalents. Something minor is better than nothing. And just that effort will make you better at it over time.
#
KartikPrabhu
maybe I should get on it then
#
colintedford
Yes, what tantek just said
nloadholtes joined the channel
#
colintedford
I still need to backfill a bunch of comic transcripts myself :/
kerosene joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu
tantek: good luck convincing people of this text-first design... seems hard
#
KartikPrabhu
though I really thing you should give it the old college try
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: text first design, and notification first before that, will work because they are simpler, easier, nothing more.
#
KartikPrabhu
errr "simpler" is a deceptive word as I think I might have established above. assumes you have a good writer :P a more serious obstacle than content-first i think
#
KartikPrabhu
and people are not yet convinced of content-first
#
tantek
I disagree - that trend is definitely taking over in design circles
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: it is harder to go from something already complex down to a simpler form
#
KartikPrabhu
possibly. which might be the case with artist websites
#
tantek
e.g. a "notification first" design of your facets & visions could just be a brief textual summary
#
KartikPrabhu
well my summary is "a collection of abstract photographs" which I should add in the h-entry
#
tantek
notification: Kartik Prabhu posted five photographs in "Facets & Visions"
#
KartikPrabhu
doesn't say much doe sit
#
tantek
sure. you could also indicate how many.
#
tantek
if they're geotagged you could indicate where
#
KartikPrabhu
that would lead to my apartment. not sure I want to do that on the internets :P
#
colintedford
Maybe regular tags if not too many. That "abstract" tag is short & informative.
#
KartikPrabhu
colintedford: yes I do choose tags carefully though I need auto-suggest in my posting UI for help
#
colintedford
If there are particular tags you use often, a macro / text expander can help.
#
colintedford
KartikPrabhu ^
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
colintedford
I do that w/ my personal log.
#
KartikPrabhu
yes I need some sort of "previously used tags" thing
#
colintedford
Like that helps auto-fill? Or a list to choose from (based on frequency or some kind of magic analysis of your post)?
#
KartikPrabhu
just a reminder of tags I have used so I can repeat when apropos and not create unnecessary duplicates
#
colintedford
For apropos reminder you could just have a page of all your tags; not sure how to helpful that'd be if you have lots of tags, though, & not sure how to usefully winnow for relevancy.
#
KartikPrabhu
colintedford: I use my articles feed for that right now. lists all tags used at the bottome :)
#
colintedford
Ah, handy :)
#
KartikPrabhu
bottom* not bottome, that's not even french
#
colintedford
It's Frenche
#
colintedford
WordPress auto-suggests as I type in the tags field, which helps prevent duplicates but runs kinda slow so isn't as useful as it could be.
#
KartikPrabhu
yeah javascript needs to be correctly written to be fast
#
KartikPrabhu
really don't understand why tantek 's favs appear when tilgovi 's follow disappear on twitter notifications
squeakytoy, squeakytoy2 and j12t joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu
and i was hoping to use Twitter's notifications to build my own....
michielbdejong and elf-pavlik joined the channel
catsup and j12t joined the channel
Kopfstein, pfefferle, j12t, squeakytoy and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
benjamin-agaric, Sebastien-L and j12t joined the channel
#
@xtof_fr
@Nawal_ Te lirai après la #sieste. <3 motivation #ego vs stratégie de génération #indieweb https://indiewebcamp.com/generations Prêt á t'aider. ++
(twitter.com/_/status/551752577118130178)
#
Loqi
[bridgy] Nawal 娜娃 نوال favorited a tweet https://indiewebcamp.com/generations (https://twitter.com/xtof_fr/status/551752577118130178)
nloadholtes joined the channel
Acidnerd, pdurbin, j12t, eburcat, tantek, elf-pavlik and csarven joined the channel
#
GWG
Hello out there in Indieweb land.
#
pdurbin
GWG: hello
#
pdurbin
I'm kind of curious if lots of indieweb people develop RESTful APIs for themselves. So they can call into them from mobile apps, for example. You know, your own mobile app for your indieweb site. :)
#
tantek
those sounds like separate questions pdurbin :)
#
tantek
so far no one develops a strictly RESTful API - but rather have a common handler (or a few) instead of having every URL accept GET/POST/PUT/DELETE
#
tantek
there's a lot of stuff mislabeled as RESTful in the realm of APIs
#
tantek
lots of people support /micropub however, both end points on their sites, and clients they can use from the (mobile) web, or sometimes as native (mobile) apps.
#
pdurbin
not from my perspective. I'm starting to get into mobile development and while on one hand I'm making games with my kids about their cats, on the other hand I'm making an app that calls into RESTful APIs for an app I work on for my day job. Just on the side... I can't afford to dedicate much time to this.
#
GWG
pdurbin: What's your platform?
#
pdurbin
GWG: android. the webapp at work is written in java
#
tantek
pdurbin: do you use GET/POST/PUT/DELETE in your API?
#
tantek.com
edited /quotation (+255) "/* Instead use */ re-order by expected instead of frequency / ease of confusion, clarify reply a bit more"
(view diff)
#
pdurbin
tantek: the API supports all those but so far I'm only using GET from the android side. no auth either
#
tantek
interesting
#
pdurbin
I agree that stuff is mislabeled as REST all the time. We talk about this constantly in #rest
#
pdurbin
I don't particularly care what it's called. I'm just hacking on an Android app. :)
#
pdurbin
which is much fun
#
GWG
pdurbin: May I make two suggestions if you are interested?
#
pdurbin
I just haven't developed enough of an API at http://api.greptilian.com to make an interesting Android app. So I'm using work APIs.
#
pdurbin
GWG: please!
#
GWG
One is MicroPub for Android, the other is this...
#
pdurbin
ah, this app is something aaronpk is working on
#
@t
Analysis & examples of when a quotation should instead be a reply, bookmark, repost, or photo: https://indiewebcamp.com/quotation#Instead_use (ttk.me t4Zz1)
(twitter.com/_/status/551789064643698688)
wolftune joined the channel
#
pdurbin
I don't support webmentions on my site though.
#
tantek
pdurbin: what do you want to support on your site next? perhaps add an "Itches" section to your User page! https://indiewebcamp.com/wikifying#Wikify_yourself
#
pdurbin
tantek: I sort of want a way to rate (and optionally review, briefly) podcast episodes as I listen to them. Since I listen from my Android phone, I'd probably want to do it from there.
#
tantek
what is a rating?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "rating" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=rating
#
tantek
what is a review?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "review" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=review
snarfed joined the channel
#
pdurbin
huh. so no indieweb activity in the area of ratings or reviews?
myfreeweb joined the channel
#
tantek.com
edited /wikifying (+75) "/* New pages */ main start a page"
(view diff)
#
tantek.com
edited /wikifying (+19) "/* See Also */ start a page"
(view diff)
#
tantek
pdurbin, looks like no one has yet started making those kinds of posts in particular - could you stub them with short definitions? https://indiewebcamp.com/start_a_page
#
snarfed
no mf2 though
#
tantek
snarfed - it's ok - real world examples are a great start!
#
tantek
content before markup, real world content publishing helps inform how the markup should work
#
tantek
!tell kylewm how is your personal indieweb challenge going? were you able to remove all mixed content warnings? https://kylewm.com/2014/12/indieweb-challenge-remove-mixed-content-warning-by-2015-01-01 (didn't see a reply to your own post, nor is there /search on your site!)
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
pdurbin
snarfed: sure, maybe I'd rate and review beer too! :)
#
Loqi
kylewm: tantek left you a message 1 minute ago: how is your personal indieweb challenge going? were you able to remove all mixed content warnings? https://kylewm.com/2014/12/indieweb-challenge-remove-mixed-content-warning-by-2015-01-01 (didn't see a reply to your own post, nor is there /search on your site!)
#
kylewm
tantek: good call, i should have posted it as a reply! https://kylewm.com/2014/12/mixed-content-warning-no-more-lock-icon-png-lock
#
tantek
kylewm++ awesome!
#
pdurbin
tantek: I promise nothing. I'm supposed to be cleaning the house. :)
#
Loqi
kylewm has 93 karma
#
tantek
pdurbin - just trying to help you with incremental steps ;)
#
pdurbin
well, I like the idea of a beer-related collaboration
#
pdurbin
smells like progress already :)
#
tantek
!tell ben_thatmust great job on your first /checkin post! btmb.me/s/5p - I tried URL trimming to https://ben.thatmustbe.me/checkin/ and got 404 - do you have a checkin stream?
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
tantek
!tell GWG do you feel you've built what you wanted for 2015-01-01? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-12-18#t1418962576242 i.e. improved reply-context including author icon and author name and kinds post/plugin? Did you post about these improvements?
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
tantek
!tell colintedford nicely done with your 2015-01-01 commitment! http://colintedford.com/2014/12/31.2156-i-finally-fixed-this-sites-single-post-display/
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
pdurbin
snarfed: ah, cool, you even have https://snarfed.org/podcasts
#
tantek
!tell bear congrats on shipping your 2015-01-01 commitment https://bear.im/bearlog/2014/354/2015-01-01-indieweb-commitment as your 2015 archives seem to show! https://bear.im/bearlog/archives.html perhaps write a short note or blog post about what it took?
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
#
snarfed
pdurbin: too much free time, somehow :P
#
pdurbin
snarfed: and you're active at https://huffduffer.com/snarfed ... but do you use an API to post there? Or just use the web interface?
#
GWG
pdurbin: I suggested it because there is room for an Android version and it is scoped out
#
snarfed
pdurbin: active is an overstatement. i use youtube-dl way more than huffduffer; most one-offs i find are flash embeds, not mp3 dls
#
Loqi
GWG: tantek left you a message 4 minutes ago: do you feel you've built what you wanted for 2015-01-01? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-12-18#t1418962576242 i.e. improved reply-context including author icon and author name and kinds post/plugin? Did you post about these improvements?
#
GWG
snarfed: You doing that as pages in WordPress?
#
snarfed
GWG: yup. i have lots of pages. basically everything i want to post but not show on the front page
#
GWG
tantek: I'm here...I don't need a tell
#
GWG
snarfed: Interesting
#
GWG
Inspiring even
#
tantek
GWG - the questions stand! (from the tell : ) )
#
snarfed
nah, it's a silly unnecessary distinction, it's just what i started doing, and it's easy, so no motivation to change
#
GWG
tantek: I did that....but I broke something else
nloadholtes joined the channel
#
GWG
tantek: Why do you think I suddenly went back to a themeless theme?
#
tantek
GWG - perhaps write that up in a short post - you got your ship commitment done, but broke some stuff, so now you've gone back to a themeless theme
#
GWG
tantek: My theme is rendering oddly because I made a hack to incorporate changes. So, I decided to build again.
#
GWG
Well, I'm still on the partially broken theme.
#
GWG
But I intend to
#
tantek
Good to do a checkpoint post about progress so far
#
GWG
I have to go to Boston tonight through tomorrow.
#
GWG
Maybe during my lunch break
#
pdurbin
GWG: I didn't realize you're in Boston too.
#
tantek.com
edited /archive (+197) "Indieweb example: snarfed"
(view diff)
#
GWG
pdurbin: I'm not. I'm flying up from New York(where I am) tonight, and coming back tomorrow morning.
#
GWG
Family event.
#
tantek
!tell aaronpk I finished going through all your examples of quotation-like posts that you added to the wiki, and adding analysis accordingly to the "Why" and "Instead of" sections on /quotation. In addition, in discussion with KartikPrabhu, I improved /bookmark accordingly as well. HTH for your posts!
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
kylewm
tantek: are you writing a follow up post about the 2015-001 challenges?
#
kylewm
(if not I think you should!)
#
kylewm
but I know that is non-trivial effort
#
tantek
kylewm: I am! And preparing for it by updating https://indiewebcamp.com/2015-01-01-commitments with people's results, posts about their shipping their commitments etc.
#
GWG
tantek: Every time you improve the wiki, I end up rewriting something
#
tantek
GWG - happy that I'm doing relevant work for you! :)
#
kylewm
ohh I can help with updating the wiki
#
tantek
kylewm: hence the pinging of folks about their progress - so I can add it to the wiki page. Yes that would be a big help!
#
tantek
Even just incorporating the back/forth above in the logs.
#
tantek
Thanks!
#
tantek
(I've been incorporating people's progress as subpoints under the *first mention of them* on that page - some folks are mentioned multiple times e.g. from IRC and then their own post in the dated posts section at the end)
#
kylewm.com
edited /2015-01-01-commitments (+623) "/* Commitments */ update my info"
(view diff)
#
GWG
!tell aaronpk: You no longer use WordPress for bookmarks, right?
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
kylewm.com
edited /2015-01-01-commitments (+0) "/* Commitments */ oops move progress to *first mention on the page* per tantek's suggestion"
(view diff)
#
kylewm
that's correct, GWG
#
GWG
What is?
#
kylewm.com
edited /2015-01-01-commitments (+553) "/* Commitments */ add bear, bret, KartikPrabhu updates"
(view diff)
#
kylewm.com
edited /2015-01-01-commitments (+164) "/* Commitments */ add Charles Stanhope indiemark level1"
(view diff)
#
kylewm
GWG: aaronpk is no longer using wordpress for bookmarks
#
kylewm.com
edited /2015-01-01-commitments (+267) "/* Commitments */ add mapkyca complete"
(view diff)
j12t joined the channel
#
aaronpk
Morning
#
Loqi
aaronpk: tantek left you a message 30 minutes ago: I finished going through all your examples of quotation-like posts that you added to the wiki, and adding analysis accordingly to the "Why" and "Instead of" sections on /quotation. In addition, in discussion with KartikPrabhu, I improved /bookmark accordingly as well. HTH for your posts!
#
Loqi
aaronpk: GWG left you a message 20 minutes ago: You no longer use WordPress for bookmarks, right?
#
aaronpk
tantek: awesome!
#
aaronpk
GWG: correct. I think that is noted on /p3k now right? And there is a note on /Wordpress I thought
#
rhiaro.co.uk
edited /2015/Cambridge (+13) "/* Interested */"
(view diff)
#
GWG
aaronpk: /bookmarks needs to be updated
nloadholtes joined the channel
#
rhiaro.co.uk
created /Template:rhiaro (+30) "Created page with "[Amy Guy](http://rhiaro.co.uk)""
(view diff)
#
rhiaro.co.uk
created /User:Rhiaro.co.uk (+10) "Created page with "{{rhiaro}}""
(view diff)
eschnou and j12t joined the channel
#
rhiaro
had a bit of a mediawiki syntax crisis, sorry about the wikispam ^
#
rascul
rhiaro there is preview :)
prtksxna joined the channel
#
rhiaro.co.uk
edited /2015 (+48) "/* Candidate Cities */"
(view diff)
#
rhiaro
rascul: I was using preview, but still couldn't get it right :p
eschnou joined the channel
#
david.shanske.com
edited /2015-01-01-commitments (+258) "/* Commitments */"
(view diff)
benjamin-agaric joined the channel
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /bookmark (+71) "add date of switching my bookmarks to p3k with link"
(view diff)
#
GWG
How do you people remember when you did things?
#
aaronpk
I try to post a quick note when I make updates like that
#
aaronpk
I never regret it later
#
GWG
That works.
#
aaronpk
if I forgot to, then I also can look through my commit history, but that's usually a ton more work
#
GWG
I need to do the little things that pay dividends.
#
aaronpk
yes. lots of small progress with small announcements has been far better for me than large milestones
#
GWG
Like many things, I'm afraid of annoying people.
#
aaronpk
annoying how?
#
aaronpk
too many posts? don't worry about it
#
aaronpk
people are good at skimming. and worst case they unfollow you, so whatever.
#
aaronpk
also sometimes I just post a note on my site and don't syndicate it anywhere
#
GWG
aaronpk: That was what I was thinking
#
aaronpk
syndicate to indienews if you want! that's a good place for that kind of stuff
snarfed joined the channel
#
snarfed
GWG: good timing re wp pages. that's what I often use them for: to publish something but omit it from the front page and feeds
#
GWG
I think I may go with not POSSEing.
#
snarfed
you can also use a plugin, eg Ultimate Category Excluder
#
snarfed
sure, sgtm
#
GWG
But, I'm going to try and document more.
#
aaronpk
documentingmore++
#
Loqi
documentingmore has 1 karma
j12t, snarfed, eschnou, wilfredh and clintpatty joined the channel
#
Loqi
[mention] Barry Frost posted 'And so it’s time to launch a new version of my personal website, https://barryfrost.com. Over the last few weeks I’ve been building this new...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub (https://barryfrost.com/2015/01/a-new-site)
#
Loqi
[mention] Barry Frost posted 'And so it’s time to launch a new version of my personal website, https://barryfrost.com. Over the last few weeks I’ve been building this new...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com (https://barryfrost.com/2015/01/a-new-site)
#
Loqi
[mention] Barry Frost posted 'And so it’s time to launch a new version of my personal website, https://barryfrost.com. Over the last few weeks I’ve been building this new...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (https://barryfrost.com/2015/01/a-new-site)
indie-visitor joined the channel
#
Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
#
barryf
Hello all. I wanted to share the new version of my site, https://barryfrost.com (sorry for the webmention spam)
#
GWG
Nice, barryf
j12t joined the channel
#
barryf
Thanks GWG
#
barryfrost.com
edited /IRC_People (+98) "/* Nicknames */ Adding barryf"
(view diff)
yakker and pwcc joined the channel
#
aaronpk
welcome barryf!
#
barryf
Hi aaronpk!
#
aaronpk
nice! you even accept "like" mentions properly :)
#
barryf
Great. Yes, hopefully all set up for likes.
#
barryf
I'm now also using Quill to post all my notes, likes and bookmarks.
#
aaronpk
oh great!
#
kylewm
snarfed: and I will chime in that I wish you had a feed with a little bit more granularity. I missed the checkin-flow post altogether!
#
aaronpk
kylewm: that is related to the last bit I am writing up for this latest blog post
#
kylewm
interesting
#
aaronpk
regarding readers
cmhobbs joined the channel
#
kylewm
look forward to reading it
#
kylewm
aaronpk: unrelated, how do you decide what date to cut off a "page" at in your stream. e.g. looking at notes, the second page starts at ?before=2014-12-08-1
#
rascul
[17:05] <FreezingCold> rascul: I wish sites started creating a curl friendly site.
#
rascul
guess what i'll be doing next for my site? ;)
#
aaronpk
rascul: try curling the IRC logs ;)
#
rascul
aaronpk i have :)
#
rascul
i think i showed that to you with curl and grep awhile back
#
aaronpk
ohh yeah
#
rascul
or something of the sort
#
aaronpk
kylewm: my pages all show 20 posts. the second page "before" parameter is the code for the post at the top of the second page
#
aaronpk
so page 1 finds the 21st post and puts that as the URL of the previous page
#
kylewm
ah, so the location of the page break changes over time?
#
aaronpk
yeah, which is why the paging URLs are based on posts, not page numbers
#
aaronpk
so my list URLs are permalinks too, the contents of the pages won't change over time
#
kylewm
ohh, ok that makes sense!
prtksxna joined the channel
#
snarfed
kylewm: point taken re more feeds
#
pwcc
Good morning all, hope you had a enjoyable break.
#
snarfed
my front page is "designed" for IRL friends, not online/tech/indieweb etc
tantek joined the channel
#
kylewm
is there a technical reason to user query parameters for pagination rather than url components?
#
aaronpk
hm no I don't think so?
#
snarfed
kylewm: http caching is one
#
aaronpk
i thought you could cache just as well with both based on the cache headers
#
snarfed
right, just takes a bit more thought and work
#
kylewm
pwcc: to you as well! trying to figure out what tz you are in that it could be morning though :) hawaii?
#
snarfed
(kylewm: it's a hack, but if you subscribe to the indienews feed, i generally syndicate indieweb posts there)
#
tantek
kylewm: from a URL design perspective, it's better to both use URL segments (query params give the appearance of user-specific / tracking info), and for pagination in particular, to use date ranges so the meaning of such URLs stays the same over time.
#
kylewm
oh duh australia
#
pwcc
kylewm: correct, 5 points.
#
aaronpk
snarfed: kylewm: I've been toying with the idea of making lots of feeds for people to follow and making them more visible on my home page
#
kylewm
cool, url path + date-based-pagination is where i will go next with my things
#
kylewm
aaronpk++
#
kylewm
tantek++
#
Loqi
aaronpk has 645 karma
#
Loqi
tantek has 133 karma
#
ben_thatmust
tantek, /checkin/ works now
#
snarfed
aaronpk: yup, sounds like known and kylewm's? (among others?)
#
aaronpk
yeah I mean I currently have a ton of feed pages, both by post type and also all my tag pages
#
aaronpk
but calling these out more intentionally on the home page for one
#
aaronpk
but also making sort of "curated" feeds which may be a combination of tags, for example
#
ben_thatmust
i was looking in to it. i should be able to get photo posting from my android app in pretty easily
#
barryf
Is anyone using the Ruby Microformats2 parser? I've struggled with nested attributes being flattened, e.g. h-cite within h-entry
#
@oncletom
@aral @overflorian the problem is not the nerd culture itself. It can be any 'commoditized culture'. Like agile, apps and probably IndieWeb.
(twitter.com/_/status/551867414225629184)
colintedford joined the channel
#
aaronpk
barryf: yes i've used it
#
aaronpk
there are some weird things about it for sure
#
pwcc
@aaronpk: like the consistent list pages. I might need to borrow that idea.
benjamin-agaric joined the channel
#
barryf
aaronpk Agreed. I think I may switch to the php-mf2 parser and consume the JSON
#
aaronpk
barryf: the ruby parser has a to_hash method which just returns the raw parsed structure
#
aaronpk
i had to drop down to that for webmention.io
#
barryf
Ah thanks. Yes that looks familiar. I'll try that.
lukebrooker joined the channel
#
kylewm
shew that parser needs some love
#
barryf
aaronpk: good to know there's a workaround
#
aaronpk
kylewm: yes it does. also this is a great example of why I am not a fan of Ruby peoples' inclinations to do "magic" things https://github.com/G5/microformats2/issues/29
#
GWG
Okay, kylewm once again is featured in a design post
#
snarfed
aaronpk++ debugging that ruby "magic" cost me most of the time it took to implement the new wmio notifs
#
Loqi
aaronpk has 646 karma
#
kylewm
aaronpk: heh yes, they want their code to read like prose
#
aaronpk
incidentally, I am super impressed with barnaby's PHP parser, which *only* turns the html into a data structure and provides no other magic
#
aaronpk
anything beyond parsing should be handled by a separate library
#
GWG
kylewm: I hope it doesn't bother you.
#
kylewm
have you done any benchmarking on how fast the parser is compared to jsut parsing the xml?
#
kylewm
GWG: you're more than welcome to test with my face always
#
GWG
Oky
#
kylewm
(I ask because I tried to compare mf2py to lxml by itself, and it was several of orders of magnitude slower)
#
kylewm
but i'm not totally sure i was exercising the xml parser fully... maybe it was doing some stuff lazily, etc.
#
aaronpk
no i have no idea. I'm also not super concerned with parsing speed because it's super unlikely it's at all significant compared to making the outgoing HTTP request to fetch the page
#
kylewm
it seems significant if you wanted to store data in mf2 formatted html
#
aaronpk
parsing on every page view?
#
aaronpk
maybe, hadn't thought about that
#
kylewm
that's what tantek does right? just with xpath instead of a full blown parser
#
aaronpk
I store both the full HTML page and the parsed version as JSON
#
aaronpk
that way I can re-parse the HTML if the parser is updated if needed
#
aaronpk
the json version is kind of a cache. I didn't really think about it, but decided to store it rather than parse the html on every page load
#
pwcc
as an aside, is it correct only way to work out the type of web mention is by parsing the source?
#
aaronpk
yes, the only thing webmention itself provides is the source and target URLs (and /vouch if you're into that)
dialdn joined the channel
#
pwcc
@aaronpk++ thanks, slowly working out the standard.
#
GWG
Hello, pwcc
#
pwcc
Hi GWG
tantek and j12t joined the channel
#
tantek
pwcc, no need for the @ in here :)
#
tantek
or rather - in the logs, @-references are hardcoded to Twitter profiles since they're the most popular @-space.
#
pwcc
tantek, oh cool. Somehow an IRC n00b, despite using 20 years on the internets.
wolftune joined the channel
#
aaronpk
prepare for an onslaught of webmentions
j12t_ joined the channel
#
prtksxna
forages http requests
#
pwcc
spent the last few days attempting to write a simplified wp-admin interface for notes. ATM have double entry.
#
pwcc
GWG can share ^^ once it's nice.
#
Loqi
[mention] Aaron Parecki posted 'The core principle of the IndieWeb is to own your data by creating content on your own domain with permalinks you control, rather than creat...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/principles (https://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/01/04/1/owning-my-data-in-2014)
#
Loqi
[mention] Aaron Parecki posted 'The core principle of the IndieWeb is to own your data by creating content on your own domain with permalinks you control, rather than creat...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/silo (https://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/01/04/1/owning-my-data-in-2014)
#
Loqi
[mention] Aaron Parecki posted 'The core principle of the IndieWeb is to own your data by creating content on your own domain with permalinks you control, rather than creat...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/SF (https://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/01/04/1/owning-my-data-in-2014)
#
Loqi
[mention] Aaron Parecki posted 'The core principle of the IndieWeb is to own your data by creating content on your own domain with permalinks you control, rather than creat...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (https://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/01/04/1/owning-my-data-in-2014)
#
tantek
oh boy
#
Loqi
[mention] Aaron Parecki posted 'The core principle of the IndieWeb is to own your data by creating content on your own domain with permalinks you control, rather than creat...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/repost (https://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/01/04/1/owning-my-data-in-2014)
#
Loqi
[mention] Aaron Parecki posted 'The core principle of the IndieWeb is to own your data by creating content on your own domain with permalinks you control, rather than creat...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015-01-01-commitments (https://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/01/04/1/owning-my-data-in-2014)
#
Loqi
[mention] Aaron Parecki posted 'The core principle of the IndieWeb is to own your data by creating content on your own domain with permalinks you control, rather than creat...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/reader#IndieWeb_examples (https://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/01/04/1/owning-my-data-in-2014)
#
aaronpk
i linked to a lot of wiki pages
#
aaronpk
I also just webmentioned myself a zillion times
#
aaronpk
now time to manually POSSE to various places since I don't have a button for that for blog posts
#
pwcc
setting up an people content type so notes @-mention will convert to "full name <site>' in the stream.
#
tantek
pwcc++ nice!
#
Loqi
pwcc has 2 karma
#
tantek
aaronpk++ that's an epic blog post. my goodness you got a lot done in 2014.
#
Loqi
aaronpk has 647 karma
#
aaronpk
thanks!!
#
aaronpk
yeah I didn't really realize how much I had done til I started collecting all the examples!
#
pwcc
Humans will be a private content type at first, but thought it'd be nice to try out even better in /note#Autolinking_and_embedding
#
@benrigas
@aaronpk very cool! I've been kicking similar ideas around my head for a while but didn't know about IndieWeb until now
(twitter.com/_/status/551881378585792512)
#
aaronpk
I hope the webmention storm was worth it :)
#
aaronpk
huh, trying to figure out the earliest date I posted articles to my own site
#
aaronpk
there is a post on my website from 1999 which doesn't exist anywhere else... does that count? it's not a "blog" entry though.
#
aaronpk
it's not an article, so maybe no
#
pwcc
aaronpk got a link? I'm impressed with any content from '99
#
tantek
kylewm belated reply yes I use DOMDocument and DOMXPath - noting in Falcon storage now...
#
aaronpk
pwcc: it's kind of embarrasing
#
pwcc
aaronpk: they always are. I reread a bunch of my 2008 posts recently. The shame...
#
tantek.com
edited /Falcon (+443) "/* Storage format */ Updated and simplified for 2015, with back compat for older storage files"
(view diff)
#
pwcc
aaronpk: I like that, it has a lot of heart. I reckon it counts as owned content :)
#
aaronpk
it's not quite an article though
#
colintedford
aaronpk: It certainly has structure and a title.
#
Loqi
colintedford: tantek left you a message 6 hours, 18 minutes ago: nicely done with your 2015-01-01 commitment! http://colintedford.com/2014/12/31.2156-i-finally-fixed-this-sites-single-post-display/
#
aaronpk
i guess it's an article? but certainly not part of by "blog" (or whatever they were called in 1999)
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /own_your_data (+934) "/* Aaron Parecki */ update my "own your data" section with a bunch more types and references"
(view diff)
wolftune joined the channel
#
colintedford
Hm, I see. An /article is a /post, which I think from the way "post" is contrasted with /page (no wiki page for that) is maybe meant to mean "part of a blog" (in the sense of series of timestamped posts).
#
pwcc
Who imported previous silo content when converting to indie? I have 17,000 rows of data I'm not sure what to do with :)
#
colintedford
But it's not explicit about it, so it maybe fits the letter if not spirit.