#indiewebcamp 2015-01-05

2015-01-05 UTC
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colintedford I guess you gotta go w/ yer feelings :)
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aaronpk pwcc: I have. I've imported all my runkeeper and strava posts, as well as bookmarks
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aaronpk oh and tweets of course
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colintedford pwwc: Have you checked the wiki pages for the relevant silo(s)?
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colintedford Also https://petermolnar.eu/linux-tech-coding/wordpress-cleanup-markdown-import-twitter-import-facebook/
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GWG pwcc: looking forward to it
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aaronpk heh I googled "find your first tweet" expecting to find some scammy site that makes you log in w/your twitter account. was shocked that the first site I clicked somehow knew my twitter account and showed me my first tweet without any interaction.
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aaronpk then like 5 minutes later, realized I was looking at https://discover.twitter.com/first-tweet
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aaronpk huh some of my earliest tweets didn't get imported into my site. I wonder why
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colintedford !tell tantek Thanks! That commitment helped get me back to working on my site after a couple months off.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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pwcc aaronpk & colintedford: have read /twitter yeah. Thinking about a limited import, drop @-replies before the reply bit existed.
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aaronpk pwcc: I think mine all got imported as notes
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aaronpk (from befor ethe in-reply-to field existed)
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KevinMarks_ Today in "calendars are hard, repeating events are really hard" http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=107926751
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aaronpk hahahaha
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aaronpk so many insults
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aaronpk oh god it's 5 pages long, and the whole last page is people calling each other names
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aaronpk <3 the internet
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki liked a post http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-01-04/line/1420416697699 (https://aaronparecki.com/likes/2015/01/04/3/)
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki liked a post http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-01-04/line/1420416697699 (https://aaronparecki.com/likes/2015/01/04/3/)
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aaronpk tommorris: your h-card is missing properties like URL and name
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tommorris aaronpk: on it.
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aaronpk is updating consuming code accordingly, but would still be nice if there were better data :)
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snarfed jumps on the nudge-tommorris-to-fix-something bandwagon
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aaronpk did not intend to create a bandwagon
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snarfed heh. reminds me of http://gregorlove.com/notes/2014/07/18/1/
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aaronpk lol
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tommorris snarfed: what in particular?
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snarfed tommorris: your webmention handler :P
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tommorris oh yes.
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pwcc considers jumping on aaronpk's bandwagon. reviews own code and decides not to.
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aaronpk this is not the bandwagon you are looking for
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tantek what is a bandwagon?
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Loqi tantek: colintedford left you a message 31 minutes ago: Thanks! That commitment helped get me back to working on my site after a couple months off.
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "bandwagon" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=bandwagon
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tantek.com created /2015-01-01 (+36) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2015-01-01-commitments (+18) "see also 2014 review" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /2014-review (+709) "stub with gwg and aaronpk 2014 in review indieweb posts, indiewebcamps" (view diff)
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tantek who else has 2014 indieweb in review posts about their personal site besides GWG and aaronpk? Add yourself! http://indiewebcamp.com/2014-review#IndieWeb_Examples
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tantek.com edited /2014-review (-2) "/* IndieWebCamps */ g" (view diff)
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aaronpk nice
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tantek.com edited /2015-01-01-commitments (+171) "Additional 2015-01 launches - barryfrost" (view diff)
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aaronpk next up: SMS -> micropub app
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tantek whoa
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tantek like OG Dodgeball & Twitter?
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aaronpk yeah
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tantek what is microsyntax
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Loqi microsyntax refers to short text conventions for conveying specific semantic meaning, such as an "@" prefix indicating a (user)name, or "#" prefix indicating a hashtag (both conventions popularized by Twitter) https://indiewebcamp.com/microsyntax
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tantek.com edited /2015-01-01-commitments (+368) "colintedford done and more in 2015-01" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2015-01-01-commitments (+111) "/* Additional 2015-01 launches */ GWG updated response display" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /checkin/ (+21) "r per IRC mention" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /2015-01-01-commitments (+86) "/* Additional 2015-01 launches */ colintedford added h-card" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: your slug is generated from the HTML and not the text: https://kylewm.com/2015/01/like-of-kartik-prabhu-facets-visions-img-class-u
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tantek.com edited /2015-01-01-commitments (+425) "belated but welcome commitments, Pierre 'catwell' Chapuis" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: good call on mf2py parser speed testing. would be useful to know since I am making a mf2-based file-storage
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk++ for the live updating IRC logs... so much easier to read than my client
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Loqi aaronpk has 648 karma
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: hmm yeah i need to fix that slug stuff. i really hate converting html -> text
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KartikPrabhu there is a function in bs4 to do that iirc
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kylewm oh yeah you're right, get_text handles this case just fine
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kylewm i was thinking about when you have to do fancy stuff like convert <a> tags to bare urls
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KartikPrabhu oh that might be tricky
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KartikPrabhu lol: https://twitter.com/chriscoyier/status/551790156886601729
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@chriscoyier There should be a test for new startups: “Is this better than a text file?” If the answer isn’t “duh, a lot better” you have to try again. (twitter.com/_/status/551790156886601729)
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KartikPrabhu tantek you might "like" this ^
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tantek yes
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KartikPrabhu i recommend not reading the follow up discussion
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tantek of course it's all demand based, thus that needs to be for every app you have installed. and it fails, export & delete.
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KartikPrabhu and hope export works :P
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@GlobalRevLive one of coolest opensource projects of 2014: @withknown https://withknown.com/ lightweight POSSE #indieweb publishing thx @benwerd @erinjo !! (twitter.com/_/status/551934595223285760)
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GWG Evening
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aaronpk kylewm: how did you end up sending a webmention to me with the target set to http but you linked to https?
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kylewm that's a great question, no idea
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aaronpk that's why this one failed: http://aaronparecki.com/webmention/nGHXmMaA
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kylewm my logs definitely say "2015-01-05 01:08:13,226 - redwind - DEBUG - Sending webmentions to these urls http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/01/04/1/owning-my-data-in-2014"
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aaronpk but your post links to https
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kylewm I guess what happened is I put http:// in my form; it fetched the context of your post and determined the permalink based on u-url was https://
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aaronpk oh! funny
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kylewm outsmarted itself
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bear i'm very close to forcing all incoming references to my site to be https inside my data store
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Loqi bear: tantek left you a message 11 hours, 44 minutes ago: congrats on shipping your 2015-01-01 commitment https://bear.im/bearlog/2014/354/2015-01-01-indieweb-commitment as your 2015 archives seem to show! https://bear.im/bearlog/archives.html perhaps write a short note or blog post about what it took?
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bear !tell tantek thanks! I don't think it would be a "short" post at all - but still, yes, I should write one with some code samples for others to use
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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@rhiaro Gonna ship something today. Neeeed to ship something today. Can't go on without much longer. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/551976885543243777)
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tantek that's the spirit rhiaro!
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Loqi tantek: bear left you a message 44 minutes ago: thanks! I don't think it would be a "short" post at all - but still, yes, I should write one with some code samples for others to use
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tantek bear, that would be great!
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prtksxna https://github.com/indieweb/indiewebify-me/pull/34
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prtksxna Do any applications even look for h-cards any more? The FAQ on the microformats page didn't seems very promising.
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prtksxna And all the blog posts seems ~8yrs old, I understand its all for a more semantic web but are there any real use cases
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colintedford prtksxna: I don't know, but thanks for fixing it anyway.
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colintedford prtksxna++
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Loqi prtksxna has 3 karma
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prtksxna colintedford: You're welcome :) The patch hasn't been merged yet though
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colintedford I know. Still pleased to see it :)
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prtksxna colintedford: Your website looks neat, I still have a long way to go with mine.
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prtksxna There seems to be some issue with the link on this post though - http://colintedford.com/2014/12/08.2120-kirby-kerberos/
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Loqi [mention] http://colintedford.com/2014/12/08.2120-kirby-kerberos/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-12-08#t1418088612464 (pingback)
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colintedford prtksxna: Whoops, somehow the "Re:" got into the href. Not sure how I missed that but thanks for catching it! Should work now.
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colintedford prtksxna++
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colintedford prtksxna: Thanks, my site's progress has been pretty slow and I haven't done any of the cool indieweb connectivity stuff yet but I'm happy with how it's coming along.
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (+1607) "/* Working on */ reorganized, expanded "better archives" & FB issues" (view diff)
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colintedford prtksxna: Your site's looking good. Good luck with the moonset :)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (-91) (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: indieweb sites looks for h-cards to render comments and such. note kylewm's "like" on this https://kartikprabhu.com/article/facets-visions#responses has his photo/name/url obtained from the h-card on his post on his site. also see this: https://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/12/20/1/ aaronpk uses the h-card to have reply-context
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KartikPrabhu worries about how vouch will work with webmention sending forms that are right below the article....
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colintedford KartikPrabhu: prtksxna: Oh right, duh, I was just thinking of the address parts when I responded.
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benwerd Has anyone here gone through the Google+ Pages API approvals process?
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KartikPrabhu there is an approval process for Pages! uh man
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benwerd indeed
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prtksxna Sorry colintedford and KartikPrabhu, I had stepped out for lunch.
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prtksxna colintedford: I was up at 3.30 today hoping to see it, got some pictures while it was still high up but couldn't catch it setting into the sea because of cloud cover :(
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colintedford prtksxna: Aw :(
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colintedford Well, it'll come around again.
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KartikPrabhu wait what is this thing we're supposed to be seeing?
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prtksxna But the sunrise time…I'll try again tomorrow it'll still be close to full moon
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@HongPong @CultureClap i feel the WP pains. you might want to try https://withknown.com/ @withknown its a fresh take on #indieweb publishing, lightwgt (twitter.com/_/status/552003565175451648)
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prtksxna KartikPrabhu: http://prtksxna.com/2015/01/02/chasing-the-moon/
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KartikPrabhu aah moon-sets!
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prtksxna KartikPrabhu: I understand now, it makes sense. But no one uses it outside the indieweb scene?
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prtksxna KartikPrabhu: Also, how do I see what is being replied to? https://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/12/20/1/
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: the thing on the top is a reply-context. aaronpk replied to kylewm's post
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: afaik noone uses anything that is "semantic web" at all
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prtksxna Oh that reply context jumps around quite a bit, comes back to aaronpk's site. It'd be nice to see the whole thread. But I don't understand comments properly just yet so I won't dwell into it now
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prtksxna KartikPrabhu: So we're just hanging on to something that is now a lost cause?
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: reply-threads are still nascent. afaik only benthatmustbeme has done any reply-threads at all
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KartikPrabhu what is reply-thread
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Loqi A reply thread (AKA reply chain) is a threaded list of replies, and replies to those replies, displayed under the original post, as part of the context-thread https://indiewebcamp.com/reply-thread
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prtksxna KartikPrabhu: Oh btw- https://github.com/prtksxna/feedme/commit/f286da2d2ac4bfdcb78c1aaf574affd6a5207c1f \o/
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: no. the "semantic web" failed because no one did anything with it. On the indieweb we are doing stuff with it
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KartikPrabhu so in a way, microformats are a key to making the indieweb work!
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prtksxna https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2014/9/12/1/_ is great!
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prtksxna is excited
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prtksxna KartikPrabhu: Right, are they being used anywhere else?
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: not microformats2 afaik
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KartikPrabhu but I don't see anything else similar to what indieweb is doing anywhere outside of closed silo APIs
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prtksxna Even wikipedia isn't using h-entry, should fix that
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KartikPrabhu <shrug>
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prtksxna I could change it in mediawiki, even add the h-cards of all the authors, that'd be nice
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KartikPrabhu also see: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/indieweb-love-blog :)
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prtksxna KartikPrabhu: I already have :)
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KartikPrabhu :D
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prtksxna https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T78416
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prtksxna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Microformats
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prtksxna I'll add it to my todo :)
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prtksxna https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T16656 too
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna++ on adding h-card to your site!
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Loqi prtksxna has 4 karma
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: it would be good to have microformats2 adoption on wikis but only if they do something with the data
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prtksxna How much karma do I need to get a cup of tea in return :P
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KartikPrabhu who knows! aaronpk has a lot but I don't think he has exchanged it for anything IRL
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KartikPrabhu that is how internet currency works right?
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prtksxna KartikPrabhu: mediawiki already has a very good api to extract data, but if it supports mf2 it'll be even easier to get some info. The idea to use is on infoboxes on en.wiki is great too
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KartikPrabhu yes. it will be easier but will people use it is the point
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KartikPrabhu we've had the same argument with "semantic web" and XML and JSON and Linked Data, but still no one uses then for anything useful
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KartikPrabhu and RDF and so on
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prtksxna Sort of like the chicken and egg problem
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KartikPrabhu yup. which is why indieweb people adopt an experiment with use cases approach. that is how "like-of" and others got added to the microformats spec as experimental. People here use it and so it gets added to spec
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KartikPrabhu which is also why h-card and h-entry are so robust now
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colintedford KartikPrabhu: prtksxna: I think that's how aaronpk got his kitten! :P
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prtksxna :D
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KartikPrabhu colintedford: haha! indiewebcat came from indeweb karma... I can see that
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colintedford realjxn: mediawiki & mf2 I suppose however much people use their current mf might suggest how much mf2 would get used.
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: reply-threads are a UI minefield IMO better to start with level 1 first and go from there
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prtksxna KartikPrabhu: I am sure they are. I am just taking baby steps :)
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KartikPrabhu colintedford: i haven't seen active use of mf1
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colintedford sorry realjxn, something went awry -- I meant KartikPrabhu & prtksxna
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KartikPrabhu colintedford: your IRC cleint might complete IRC names on hitting tab
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: yes. baby steps are good :P
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prtksxna checks when the next meetup in SF is
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colintedford KartikPrabhu: yeah, their page lists some search engines & a list of things I'm too lazy to click to see what they are but sound obscure-ish.
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prtksxna 14th :(
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colintedford KartikPrabhu: It does; i would sworn I tab-completed "Kart" and "prt"; now idea how I got the other
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: you could ask if people are up for an improptu indieweb meetup while you are around
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colintedford would have*
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prtksxna Here? Or is there a more appropriate forum?
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colintedford now -> no* Clearly I should finish my work & go to bed...
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prtksxna I too should get back to my real work
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prtksxna KartikPrabhu: Its nice to see that the draft is being updated by our needs, I thought it was mostly dead.
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: here is good see if the usual SF people are around
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: microformats draft is pretty well updated with usage here
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prtksxna Who are…?
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KartikPrabhu err.. lets see tantek is one
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KartikPrabhu i think kylewm is another
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prtksxna Thanks KartikPrabhu, I'll ping them once I reach.
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prtksxna KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 86 karma
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KartikPrabhu where is my cat!?
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: might be better to ask them in advance
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prtksxna KartikPrabhu: There is your cat ( Í’ ु- •Ì«Ì® – ू Í’)
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prtksxna tantek kylewm: I am in SF in the last 10 days of Jan. Want to meetup? :)
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: there will quite possibly be an indieweb meetup on 28th. It is biweekly ( every 2 weeks )
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prtksxna KartikPrabhu: Ah, that'd be nice, I am there till 1st Feb I think
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KartikPrabhu keep an eye out on the wiki for HWC announcements
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colintedford Looks like next Homebrew Website Club is the 14th, so next after that would be 28th. http://indiewebcamp.com/events
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prtksxna I'd be so excited to attend one. Thanks guys!
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prtksxna Maybe I'll start one here, in Goa, once I've made significant progress with my blog.
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: the Chicago one is just 2 people so find one more :)
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prtksxna KartikPrabhu: Sorry, I don't follow.
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prtksxna Ah I do now, sorry
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: I mean the Chicago HWC is just 2 people. If you find one more in Goa you have a "club" right?
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prtksxna KartikPrabhu: I know one more already and we can bring some more people together and introduce them too
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: that is great!
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prtksxna KartikPrabhu: Yes, I just took a while to process it
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colintedford prtksxna: You don't even need a website for the club, so you can start it whenever you like :) http://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club
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KartikPrabhu also true ^
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KartikPrabhu it is fine if you are working on one :)
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prtksxna I thought it'd be nice, you know…so that I have some idea of what I am talking about
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prtksxna I guess I'll at least wait till I attend one :)
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: a good idea. but don't let not having a full-feature indiewebsite stop you
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prtksxna Yes, sir!
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KartikPrabhu because there is no "full-feature" indieweb site. It is a moving goal post
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prtksxna I chase too many moving targets at work, I know how this is :)
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KartikPrabhu me too... :)
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prtksxna has a feeling KartikPrabhu is talking about real objects (doing Physics etc.)
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: well sort of :P
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: maybe you can pull an IWC Goa in June/July . I should be around Bombay in that time... a good excuse to have a Goa trip :P
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prtksxna KartikPrabhu: That'd be great. Let's do that.
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prtksxna I might do one before to hopefully gain some traction before you come, does that sound alright?
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KartikPrabhu no promises yet but I'll keep an eye out
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KartikPrabhu prtksxna: HWC is biweekly and IWC is yearly so yeah
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prtksxna Ah, I see
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KartikPrabhu what is indiewebcamp?
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Loqi IndieWebCamps are brainstorming and building events where IndieWeb creators gather semi-regularly to meet in person, share ideas, and collaborate on IndieWeb design, UX, & code for their own sites https://indiewebcamp.com/indiewebcamp
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@voxpelli RT @aaronpk: Owning My Data in 2014 #indieweb http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/01/04/1/owning-my-data-in-2014 (twitter.com/_/status/552030834266767360)
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ben_thatmust !tell tantek /checkin/ works now. it also works for every other post type
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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@mathiashellsing RT @aaronpk: Owning My Data in 2014 #indieweb http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/01/04/1/owning-my-data-in-2014 (twitter.com/_/status/552045899787296770)
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@NitiBhan @morganmck @MrDylanCollins Interestingly, here's a subscription service bundle pulled together by indieweb founders https://goodwebbundle.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/552046013339271168)
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KartikPrabhu "founders" is a little too strong a statement on that one ^
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@MrDylanCollins RT @NitiBhan: @morganmck @MrDylanCollins Interestingly, here's a subscription service bundle pulled together by indieweb founders https://t… (twitter.com/_/status/552046823616307200)
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@morganmck RT @NitiBhan: @morganmck @MrDylanCollins Interestingly, here's a subscription service bundle pulled together by indieweb founders https://t… (twitter.com/_/status/552047163727822848)
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tommorris working on moving my tweet truncation stuff to the front-end so I can customise the tweet that gets sent out: http://cl.ly/image/2W3z3d1X1w3t
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petermolnar hi indieweb; is there any way to force brid.gy to re-scan a facebook posts comments? I forgot to put the backlink in the first time
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@localherodotbiz @HongPong @CultureClap @withknown I'm pretty sure wp is every bit as #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/552078222989348864)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /User:Ben.thatmustbe.me (-12) "rename mobile app" (view diff)
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@dissolve333 #indieweb mobile app now polling micropub for syndication targets. Web based micropub client now doing the same.… (https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2015/1/5/2/) (twitter.com/_/status/552099722840637440)
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realjxn I thought I heard about Known posting to G+ (presumably via undocumented API). Anyone know if that's a real thing?
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ben_thatmustbeme haven't heard anything about it
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ben_thatmustbeme people have worked out ways to post in the past but they are quite hacky. could break at any time
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realjxn Sure. I'm interested in that kind of hackiness, personally
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realjxn I guess this tells me the answer I need: http://indiewebcamp.com/Google+
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ben_thatmustbeme usually the wiki has it all
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, definitely woke up at 4:30 am with a desire to get micropub lookup of syndication targets working
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ben_thatmustbeme so i did that
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snarfed petermolnar: there's no way to make bridgy reprocess old posts right now, but you can send the wms yourself manually, https://www.brid.gy/about#source-urls
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petermolnar thank you!
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Loqi [bridgy] alex bab favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/quotation#Why (https://twitter.com/t/status/551649193639813120)
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Loqi [mention] Phyks posted 'Thoughts on blogging engine 7 min read For now, I am using my own custom made Python script ...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://known.phyks.me/2015/thoughts-on-blogging-engine)
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Loqi [mention] Phyks posted 'Thoughts on blogging engine 7 min read For now, I am using my own custom made Python script ...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/Bridgy (https://known.phyks.me/2015/thoughts-on-blogging-engine)
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Loqi [mention] Phyks posted 'Thoughts on blogging engine 7 min read For now, I am using my own custom made Python script ...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/Webmention (https://known.phyks.me/2015/thoughts-on-blogging-engine)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /User:Ben.thatmustbe.me (+469) "setting up TODO for MobilePub" (view diff)
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@marinintim I dislike PHP for no obvious reasons. :( @ownCloud and almost all #indieweb roll with it, so... (twitter.com/_/status/552148270474989568)
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
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Loqi tantek: ben_thatmust left you a message 7 hours, 8 minutes ago: /checkin/ works now. it also works for every other post type
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tantek ben_thatmust++ yay for type-specific feed pages for those that want them!
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Loqi ben_thatmust has 5 karma
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@andkjaer 10 Marketing Predictions You Should Prepare for in 2015 >> http://www.quicksprout.com/?p=29907&utm_content=buffer2ebc8&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #SocialMedia Tip from Neil Patel. #SelfPublish #IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/552151573934374913)
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@robknight @davidmead Is the link in your reply a webmention? (BTW, I couldn't see it--had to login) (twitter.com/_/status/552153788195160064)
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kylewm !tell aaronpk why doesn't your owning-my-data-in-2014 show up on your front page stream? intentional?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek wow the twitter scroll problem is annoying
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tantek another good reason to build indie reader functionality into your own site
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@robknight @davidmead Yup, I see it! I’ll have a look at @withknown. I’ve been slowly adding #indieweb features to my site. (twitter.com/_/status/552158437812215808)
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tantek !tell prtksxna thanks for the indiewebify fix! merged.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk goooood morning
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Loqi aaronpk: kylewm left you a message 22 minutes ago: why doesn't your owning-my-data-in-2014 show up on your front page stream? intentional?
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aaronpk kylewm: it's in the sidebar of my home page, "recent articles"
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aaronpk my articles don't show up in the large stream
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aaronpk I'm probably going to change that though as part of the Great Post Type Refactoring of 2015
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ben_thatmustbeme good morning all
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ben_thatmustbeme quiet morning
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sparverius guh last night i ran a script to extract a decade's worth of my comments from a site and woke up to find that the owner banned me
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ben_thatmustbeme damn!
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sparverius rate limiting of one request a second (20 comments on average)
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Loqi hehe
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sparverius so i used an alt account and he thought someone was mining me
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aaronpk that sounds sketchy
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ben_thatmustbeme i understand where the guy is coming from, try contacting him
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sparverius no i did
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sparverius i mean i was using an alt account to do it
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ben_thatmustbeme yay, feedback when i post in my app
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Loqi yay!
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ben_thatmustbeme i really need to work out a nice UI at the start this time though
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ben_thatmustbeme oh, btw, aaronpk, you asked for my feedback on the micropub?q=sydicate-to
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ben_thatmustbeme i have no problem with it the way it is. sure a client could implement syndication, at which point it just doesn't poll that.
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aaronpk cool
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ben_thatmustbeme I'm wondering if we need some sort of ?q=commands
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ben_thatmustbeme as we are adding more and more of these and I have ideas on others to add
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aaronpk start collecting them on the wiki!
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub-brainstorming
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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barryf I've used ?q=syndicate-to on Quill. Currently passing my Twitter, Facebook and Pinboard accounts.
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barryf (bookmarks go to Pinboard)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /Micropub-brainstorming (+1258) "quick brain dump of some ideas from the last couple days" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk, done :)
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aaronpk sweet
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aaronparecki.com edited /Micropub-brainstorming (+477) "/* Query for Webmentions */" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /Micropub-brainstorming (-2) "nested wrong" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /Micropub-brainstorming (+526) "response to aaronpk, maybe we should just talk this out in the chat then link to chat history" (view diff)
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: probably :)
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aaronpk since we're both here
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ben_thatmustbeme heh
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@HongPong @localherodotbiz @CultureClap @withknown yeah you can call WP indieweb but its obsession w backwards compatibility has spiraled the cruft (twitter.com/_/status/552183651044433922)
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aaronpk ah I see what you're getting
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aaronpk at
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ben_thatmustbeme so yeah, i was thinking about using my app to poll for notifications of new incoming mentions/comments/tags/likes
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aaronpk I still think that's better left to an HTML page
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aaronpk for example I have aaronparecki.com/mentions
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aaronpk (which I'm planning on cleaning up to be more activity-stream like, showing stories like "aaron was tagged in ben's photo")
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ben_thatmustbeme ideally we would be doing that via push
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aaronpk my thought was if I request that page while authenticated as myself, I would see private stories
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ben_thatmustbeme how does a client know to use /mentions?
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aaronpk hadn't gotten to a generalized example for that yet, but see /mention-app for one way of doing it
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KartikPrabhu wait isn't notification more like reader and less like micropub?
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: yeah that's what i'm getting at
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ben_thatmustbeme it should be anywhere you are authenticated, ideally
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aaronpk with the /mention-app that I sketched out, after you log in, you enter the URL of the activity feed
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KartikPrabhu one could build a composite app that does both, but having it in micropub spec is a little much
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aaronpk it's not a large leap to imagine that could be another endpoint that is specified as a <link> tag
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ben_thatmustbeme enter url :(
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aaronpk but it's really part of a reader more than it is part of micropub which is for *creating* content
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ben_thatmustbeme starts looking back through logs for where aaronpk said he originally intented micropub to read and write
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aaronpk also having that page as HTML has the added benefit of being able to just load it up in a mobile app and have it work without the client parsing anything from it
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aaronpk instagram is all html pages and works that way
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ben_thatmustbeme agreed aaronpk, perhaps its something that you should be polling for where the feed URL is
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aaronpk and then regarding push/realtime, PuSH has a mechanism for that already, so as soon as your site adds something to the feed, it would ping its hub and all the subscribers would be notified immediately
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aaronpk ( here's how you can tell instagram is actualy a web app http://indiewebcamp.com/File:2014-234-instagram-502-nginx.jpg )
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ben_thatmustbeme hah
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aaronpk s/instagram/parts of instagram
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Loqi aaronpk meant to say: ( here's how you can tell parts of instagram is actualy a web app http://indiewebcamp.com/File:2014-234-parts of instagram-502-nginx.jpg )
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aaronpk micropub needs to be able to read in order to edit posts, since often people write posts using some sort of markup that is transformed by their site to the HTML that is finally rendered
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aaronpk for example writing articles in markdown, or when the site renders a full h-card after typing a nickname like @aaronpk
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KartikPrabhu or hashtag autolink
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aaronpk right
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm thinking to use MP as a general control point for the site, don't really need more than one. Anything i can do by admin on my page i should be able to do over MP
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ben_thatmustbeme multiple endpoints for that seems redundant
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KartikPrabhu modular pieces are better
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aaronpk well nobody is stopping you from overloading your own micropub endpoint however you want, as long as it has the core pieces in common
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KartikPrabhu for your own site you can build one big app that does everything, but in spec they should be separate
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aaronpk i am curious to see more docs of things you want to add to it as you go
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ben_thatmustbeme also, if its another <link> then the URL is public, though it may never be (never will be for my site) so it doesn't make sense to have it as a <link>
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aaronpk (doesn't have to be public, it can be shown in the html only when an authenticated request is made)
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ben_thatmustbeme have to pull main page again then, extra polling
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aaronpk only on the first login, which isn't unreasonable
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ben_thatmustbeme okay, i can see that being OK
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ben_thatmustbeme it would work better with PUSH having it as its own html page.
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ben_thatmustbeme from what i have looked at there are several basic operations that can be organized though. Posting/updating (micropub right now) getting information on posts (url= to get a raw post), getting config information (syndicate-to, mp-config), setting configs (I suggested for setting mp-config/indie-config values) getting/setting contacts? (these would make more sense a different endpoint i suppose, though i like the idea that client connectio
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ben_thatmustbeme ns all go through only one endpoint)
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aaronpk the contacts one is interesting
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aaronpk it is related to writing a post since it'd be used for autocomplete, and would require the same permissions as the person writing the post
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ben_thatmustbeme the mp/indie-config update stuff i see as useful for "Make this my default client for Notes" type of thing
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /Micropub-brainstorming (+307) "/* Alternate Content Types */" (view diff)
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@cphyc I juste installed #known on my website. I am now crossposting on my blog, FB and Twitter. #indieweb http://known.cphyc.me/2015/i-juste-installed-known-on-my-website-i-am-now (twitter.com/_/status/552196780805615616)
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@cphyc I just installed #known on my website http://t.co/InUsRkw7RW. Now cross-posting on FB and Twitter! #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/552197180661182464)
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bear ben_thatmustbeme - that is what I ran into last week - I was trying to overload my micropub endpoint to be my /mention and /new and kept running into issues from having to sort out if the POST request was from a micropub client or from a browser or ???
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bear not saying that it can't be done, just that my meager web dev skills was mucking it up so I am keeping them seperate now - /micropub and /mention which groks if someone is auth'd
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Loqi [mention] http://halfanhour.blogspot.com/2015/01/a-year-in-photos.html linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/syndication-models (webmention)
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snarfed huh, i wonder what sent that wm
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snarfed that site isn't signed up for bridgy
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Phyks is anyone here publishing to a Known website using Quill ?
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ben_thatmustbeme bear, you can take a look at my implementation, its a bit messy as i keep adding to it, i need to break it up a bit more https://github.com/dissolve/postly/blob/master/controller/micropub/receive.php
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ben_thatmustbeme Phyks, I am not, but it should work fine
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ben_thatmustbeme i should set up a known page just to test my MP clients and make sure they work
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Phyks well, I found the indiepub plugin for known which should handle the micropub endpoint, but it seems not to register the URL endpoints =(
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Phyks (don't route them)
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, whats the URL?
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GWG Afternoon
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ben_thatmustbeme afternoon GWG
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Phyks for instance on known.phyks.me
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Phyks but it seems to be a bug with the plugin actually
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Phyks the link tags are here
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Phyks but the URLs respond with 404
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, it "should" return a 401 without auth, but it could just be written that way
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ben_thatmustbeme but i think you are right, its just not routing correctly
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Phyks got it
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ben_thatmustbeme i was about to say "Hey theres a bug filed on that" then i realized it was yours
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Phyks the class is not imported on time
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ben_thatmustbeme ahh
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Phyks so the router can't route it, as it fails with a "class not exists"
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Phyks plugin problem then
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Phyks ^
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Phyks *^^
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aaronpk oh yeah I ran into that problem too
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Phyks seems that all classes are not imported on time
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Phyks but the plugin structure seems to be the same as the one for other plugins, so I do not know what is going wrong
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Phyks looking at Known plugin system right now to try to figure it out
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ben_thatmustbeme the nice thing of open source
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tantek good afternoon #indiewebcamp!
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tantek what are founders?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "founders" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=founders
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tantek KartikPrabhu: yeah we should fix that
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ben_thatmustbeme hey tantek
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KartikPrabhu tantek: it seems people use indieweb to refer to anything that looks "indieweb" and not particularly the indiewebcamp approach so...
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tantek then why use the particular term "founders"?
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KartikPrabhu <shrug>
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aaronpk that was an odd tweet
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ben_thatmustbeme indeed
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tantek https://goodwebbundle.com/ carefully says "indie sites" which is perfectly reasonable - it's a generic prefix.
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KartikPrabhu yes
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ben_thatmustbeme must have been meant as "founders of various indie sites"
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tantek heh: "Only 1 days left"
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tantek it's another conflation of "indie" and "indie web"
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voxpelli i like words like "initiators" rather than "founders" when talking of a movement made up of lots of people – which they obviously aren't
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tantek or "indieweb" as it were
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Phyks aaronpk: got it ! stupid case-sensitivity and git cloned it as "indiepub" folder and not "IndiePub"… ><
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aaronpk ohhhhhh
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Phyks aaronpk: however quill is missing the authorization endpoint now, but I'll get it to work
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aaronpk Phyks++
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Loqi Phyks has 2 karma
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tantek voxpelli: except that aaronpk and I did deliberately choose the "indieweb" term to mean a set of specific things, above and beyond anything "federated", "decentralized", or "blogging".
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aaronpk I bet ben develops it on osx so he doesn't have the case sensitivity issues
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tantek and thus we specifically chose the term "indiewebcamp" to refer to our first gathering, which we co-organized with Amber Case and Crystal Beasley - thus making the four of us "founders" of "indiewebcamp"
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KartikPrabhu tantek: we've been here before. People seem to associate "indieweb" with just hosting your own site. Also, people don't seem to want "indieweb" to be used for specifically the approach used here
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tantek KartikPrabhu: enough of the weaselwords - citations needed ;)
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KartikPrabhu <shrug> sociology...
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aaronpk there's no reason to have a specific name for hosting your own website unless there's something about the approach that makes it unique
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KartikPrabhu tantek: cititing the previous tweet and also: https://jkphl.is/articles/indie-as-in-individuality/
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KartikPrabhu and all other previous such "conflation" storms
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Phyks aaronpk: most likely. But in the doc I found « This namespace maps exactly to the plugin’s file location » which gave me a hint
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tantek KartikPrabhu: of course there's that association - hosting your own site is *one* aspect of indieweb
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tantek but not the only one
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KartikPrabhu yeah. I know.
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tantek KartikPrabhu: that's a past / out of date article
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tantek adactio and I met jkphl at this past IWC UK 2014 and we're all good :)
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KartikPrabhu sure. I'll wait for the next such article and cite it then :)
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aaronpk oh jkphl was at IWC UK? I met him in Germany last year too!
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voxpelli tantek: yeah, might be a language thing – just think "founders" can carry unfortunate connotations in some cases which "initiators" doesn't – but might not come across the same way in english
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tantek yes he was! great conversations.
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aaronpk excellent! and I'm planning on doing IWC Germany this year with him and marc in May!
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tantek KartikPrabhu: there's a natural tension between a desire for growth, and a desire for meaning (rather than dilution).
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Phyks aaronpk: http://known.phyks.me/2015/so-finally-after-having-found-that-known-plugins-are-case-sensitive =P
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Phyks it's working gently !
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aaronpk Phyks: hooray!
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tantek KartikPrabhu: unfortunately I feel (to some large part) to blame for a lot of jkphl's post because of *that one tweet I made challenging Aral*.
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tantek (quoted in the blog post)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: your indieweb love blog article is cited as well
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tantek also - this citation does not backup your claim of "don't seem to want "indieweb" to be used for specifically the approach used here" - quite the opposite
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tantek e.g. jkphl said: "Well, despite the fact that I do recognize (and agree with) what Tantek is aiming for here" in response to my tweet that if you want to be indie you should tweet from your own website.
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tantek so he is literally agreeing with the approach used here
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tantek as opposed to your claim
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aaronpk does Known not handle like-of posts?
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tantek this an example of the larger problem of: if you don't stand for *something*, then you stand for *nothing*
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Phyks aaronpk: I was about to ask you the same thing :)
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Phyks is there a standard way to handle likes ?
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aaronpk yes, see http://indiewebcamp.com/like#receive_and_markup_incoming_likes
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Phyks because your like did not result in the same thing on my known instance as https://kylewm.com/2015/01/like-of-phyks-thoughts-on-blogging-engine
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tantek KartikPrabhu: as "indieweb" gets even more popular, we'll actually need to be *more* explicit and outwardly communicative about what it means
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tantek or else be deluged by sales & marketing people defining "indieweb" as whatever they want it to mean to sell crap because of the "buzz" around "indieweb"
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kylewm Phyks: I changed my markup around recently, so I may have broken something Known depended on
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: I had the KNown not rendering likes problem too once
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aaronpk Phyks: it looks like Known doesn't understand like-of, I would expect to see it here https://github.com/idno/idno/blob/master/Idno/Core/Webmention.php#L123
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aaronpk at least my likes fall back to a comment entry that says "liked..."
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I agree with those points. but I also don't expect people to use "exact" definitions
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Phyks but they have the staring thing implemented yet, so I expect they handle it (or will soon)
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Phyks will look at issues and fill a new one eventually
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tantek KartikPrabhu: all that being said, beyond those typical definitional integrity problems, because we are specifically using "indie" implying "independent" - that puts a particularly strong pressure on us to allow for (perhaps at least somewhat) forking / diverging / broader inclusive defintions.
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Phyks thanks
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kylewm Phyks, i tried again with "u-like u-like-of" and it posted (a duplicate) but registered as a like this time
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tantek hey benwerd - does Known accept "like-of" webmentions?
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tantek or is it still only accepting the old/deprecated "u-like" ?
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tantek (instead of preferring "u-like-of")
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aaronpk oh okay at least it does recognize like posts as a star
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tantek hopes that benwerd's joining wasn't just his android client's autojoin in the background when it found network access.
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aaronpk my guess is it's only looking for u-like then
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benwerd tantek: checking
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tantek aaronpk no need to guess ^^^
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aaronpk oh yay
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aaronpk hi benwerd
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benwerd howdy
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ben_thatmustbeme hey benwerd
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benwerd (FYI: I don't connect to IRC via Android typically, so if I'm here, it's in a background window on my laptop while I'm on it)
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Phyks kylewm: true !
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Phyks kylewm: you did not have u-like u-like-of the first time ?
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kylewm Phyks: no just "u-like-of"
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ben_thatmustbeme does anyone else want to test out my extremely bare bones android MP client btw?
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tantek I wonder what a facepile grid would look like of everyone who came to an IndieWebCamp in 2014?
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tantek Like an IndieWebCamp 2014 yearbook grid as it were.
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benwerd tantek: it was only accepting u-like but as of right now also accepts like-of.
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tantek benwerd, er. u-like-of :)
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benwerd yep
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tantek (I mean yeah, you could also see a <span class="p-like-of">http://.…</span> )
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aaronpk tantek: that'd be awesome. could get a lot of the photos from the guest lists!
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tantek aaronpk - that's what I was thinking
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tantek just union / dedup from guest lists
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aaronpk they're all h-cards too right? easy to parse
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tantek true!
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tantek ooh - something that creates a "facepage" from any source of h-cards would be awesome!
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Phyks kylewm: ah ok, but we agree that this should be enough, according to http://indiewebcamp.com/like#receive_and_markup_incoming_likes, true ?
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kylewm ben_thatmustbeme: https://kylewm.com/2015/01/test-post-from-dissolve-s-micropub-android-client
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kylewm ben_thatmustbeme++ nice work!
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme has 38 karma
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kylewm it sure looks like Known should handle both/either https://github.com/idno/idno/blob/04e3132bc514c84fdc080186ede7792cecbb6869/Idno/Common/Entity.php#L1601
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ben_thatmustbeme kylewm, did you build it? or are you running from the APK i shared the other day?
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kylewm APK
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aaronpk kylewm: https://github.com/idno/idno/commit/04e3132bc514c84fdc080186ede7792cecbb6869
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aaronpk 4 minutes ago
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kylewm lolol
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aaronpk benwerd++
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Loqi benwerd has 45 karma
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Phyks aaronpk: lol
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Phyks just finished filling my issue… =(
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ben_thatmustbeme kylewm, https://ben.thatmustbe.me/static/mobilepub/ this will house the up to date APKs as I rebuild it and test it constantly
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aaronpk haha
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aaronpk well now you can close it and point to that commit
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benwerd Commits are faster than issues. That's just physics
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Phyks haha
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benwerd Phyks: really appreciate you filing the issue though. Thank you!
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Phyks benwerd: thank your for closing it this fast =)
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benwerd I wish they all could be closed this fast ;)
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benwerd ben_thatmustbeme: that is really, really cool.
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm looking at photo uploads now
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aaronpk nice
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ben_thatmustbeme it may be a minor hassle, but would add a lot
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ben_thatmustbeme i just hate doing front end, haha
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aaronpk OwnYourGram does photo and video uploads in case you want to see how it works with micropub
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ben_thatmustbeme but i'm thinking i'll just lay it out like a homescreen, similar to how people do their contact page
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk, i use ownyourgram for photos now (didn't know it did video though... hmm) problem is instagram crashes a LOT on my phone, and locks up the camera when it does it, forcing a reboot. I figure i have the generic receiving working thanks to ownyourgram. I'll have to look at video at some point too
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ben_thatmustbeme then all i need is someone with an iOS build environment and they can build an ios version of it very quickly
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aaronpk wow that's too bad. the instagram app is fine on iOS. actualy mostly I take photos with the built-in camera app, then choose the photo from my library from instagram.
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aaronpk I could build an iOS version for you. tho I don't have the iOS 8 SDK yet
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ben_thatmustbeme once i have it a little more stabilized and work out a simple build doc, i'll probably take you up on that
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aaronpk cool
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benwerd ben_thatmustbeme: that'd solve a major problem we've been hearing. Photo uploads from mobile devices over the web really suck, because the browser can't resize the photo down. If you can compress the photos a little, like Instagram does, you'll create a massively better experience than the web alone.
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benwerd (I really wish the web as a platform had better upload APIs.)
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm... i don't know if JS can do the compression can it?
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benwerd we have major difficulties even showing a preview before upload in js, because the mobile browsers don't handle memory as well as they could
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benwerd that said, it is technically possible: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14672746/how-to-compress-an-image-via-javascript-in-the-browser
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm using apache cordova, so its all running in JS as well
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benwerd Gotcha
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benwerd (It's at least not as bad as the audio capture APIs, which produce WAV files, everybody's favorite audio format to upload)
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ben_thatmustbeme lol
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: you can probably find a cordova plugin that can resize the photos and it'll use the phone's native code to do that
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ben_thatmustbeme thats what i'm looking in to now
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aaronpk oh looks like the official camera plugin can scale images https://github.com/apache/cordova-plugin-camera/blob/master/doc/index.md
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aaronpk at least images taken from the plugin, but not ones upl;oaded from the library
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, you basically tell it what quality to record when you take the photo
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ben_thatmustbeme there are some hacks to resize but not compress
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benwerd Interesting. It's probably that way because of the Android media libraries, although I *think* they've had library compression for a while now
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ben_thatmustbeme well cordova tries to keep everything generic enough to run on just about anything it seems
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ben_thatmustbeme what are they like 7 or 8 platforms now that you can build for
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "they like 7 or 8 platforms now that you can build for" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=they+like+7+or+8+platforms+now+that+you+can+build+for
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ben_thatmustbeme https://github.com/raananw/PhoneGap-Image-Resizer
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tantek benwerd: if you're ok with depending on XHR2 - it allows uploads of blobs, which means you can do what http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14672746/how-to-compress-an-image-via-javascript-in-the-browser suggests except skipping the problematic dataURI->input submission steps.
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tantek darn
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tantek !tell benwerd and here's higher quality resampling code than what's built into canvas to up or downsize (in JS) https://github.com/potch/canvascopy/tree/gh-pages using image data objects
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
prtksxna joined the channel
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aaronpk does anyone here show a view counter on their pages? I remember late-90s websites used to show the little odometer-style counter at the bottom showing the number of visitors
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aaronpk and now the Twitter app is making your twitter analytics more prominent within the app, one of which shows the number of people who saw individual tweets
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KartikPrabhu i don't collect any analytics/counts at all
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aaronpk you collect number of likes though!
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: you actually do collect counts in your server logs, at minimum
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snarfed (granted, those may truncate, etc)
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kylewm snarfed, did you just add infinite scrolling to your site?
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snarfed kylewm: nah, been there for years
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kylewm ha. i am very observant apparently
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snarfed :P
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kylewm here's a counter on a site i made :P https://web.archive.org/web/20000622042723/http://www.mindspring.com/~kirkwoodpc/index.htm
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aaronpk kylewm: that looks about right
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kylewm I like how the font changes on the buttons on the left
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kylewm presumably i couldn't find the same font when i went back to add new buttons