#indiewebcamp 2015-01-07

2015-01-07 UTC
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aaronpk whoa twitter is giving attribution on photos when they are taken by someone else
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bret cool github support docs now run on jekyll https://github.com/blog/1939-how-github-uses-github-to-document-github
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bret maybe they'll give the final html output some lovin
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:twitter-photo-attribution.png]]""
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aaronparecki.com edited /Twitter (+301) "/* Photo Attribution */" (view diff)
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bret.io edited /Jekyll (+357) "Added notable use examples" (view diff)
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kylewm aaronpk: interesting, not seeing the attribution on my end https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38780898/aaronpk-photo-no-attribution.png
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aaronpk that's in-stream?
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bret cool pic aaronpk
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aaronpk thx :)
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aaronpk kylewm: that looks like the permalink page for the tweet
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kylewm it's her profile page https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38780898/aaronpk-photo-context.png
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aaronpk huh yeah I don't see it there either
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kylewm oh
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aaronpk I was looking at my mentions tab
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@simonv3 I spent a good chunk of yesterday helping my mom go #indieweb. Nothing like a broken pacific cable to trigger centralization dislike. (twitter.com/_/status/552624605131579392)
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aaronpk !tell tantek in case you needed a citation for why short URLs are useful in print: https://twitter.com/DiaryCS/status/552554121048236032
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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snarfed so when an instagram photo as a location attached (aka photo map), you can click on the location in the IG app to see its "profile" page
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snarfed does anyone know if there are corresponding web pages for instagram locations?
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snarfed i can't find any
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aaronpk I doubt it
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aaronpk the web interface is a relatively recent addition to instagram
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snarfed well, multiple years old…but still, younger and a second class citizen, yes :P
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snarfed ah well
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aaronpk has it already been a couple years?
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snarfed at least
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aaronpk time is weird
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@aaronpk Maybe the Intel Compute Stick will be the thing I can use to broadcast a website from my backpack. http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/compute-stick/intel-compute-stick.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/552635131093987328)
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kylewm governmentjobs.com?utm_source=Newspaper
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kylewm (that looks like spam, was supposed to be in re to aaronpk's link about short urls)
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KevinMarks "now defunct Technorati tags" - good thing we won the "you don't have to link to technorati" argument
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KevinMarks hm, all the links from my old tags posts are broken, except tim bray's http://epeus.blogspot.com/2005/01/clarifying-tags.html http://epeus.blogspot.com/2005/01/tagging-is-for-posts.html
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tantek KevinMarks: I see Niall's link from your post working (not 404) http://www.niallkennedy.com/blog/2005/01/dear-technorati.html
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Loqi tantek: aaronpk left you a message 2 hours, 58 minutes ago: in case you needed a citation for why short URLs are useful in print: https://twitter.com/DiaryCS/status/552554121048236032
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tantek wow
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tantek KevinMarks: also: http://www.niallkennedy.com/blog/2005/01/technorati-laun.html
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colintedford aaronpk: Re: "why short URLs are useful in print", I like they use that to weed out applicants; not sure if that's better or worse than just bad url design though.
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colintedford like *to think* that
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (+89) "Done: Added prev & next nav to dated archive pages" (view diff)
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GWG !tell prtksxna Yes, I have.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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colintedford Has the wiki started logging anyone else out more frequently in the past week or so?
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GWG How frequently?
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colintedford Every day-ish; I have to log in the first time I visit in a day and then it's fine 'til the next day.
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colintedford Not a big problem, but was wondering.
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GWG That's always been the way I've noticed it
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colintedford Up until recently I'd only had to log in once or twice the whole time I've been registered.
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GWG Hmm...
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GWG Ask aaronpk, he might have a thought
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aaronpk colintedford: i've been fiddling with https settings. try visiting only https links and you should be logged in all the time
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aaronpk also there's a checkbox in your preferences that should set a longer cookie
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colintedford aaronpk: Thanks, I'll try the https. Checkbox is checked already; I've hardly had to log in 'til recently :)
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aaronpk I wanted to redirect all http to https, but I can't until I can fix all the mixed-content warning
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aaronpk s
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GWG There are preferences?
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colintedford Yeah, the link should be somewhere near the link for your user page.
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colintedford Or just https://indiewebcamp.com/Special:Preferences
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KartikPrabhu tantek: some advice on a file-storage flow. So I am writing code to store notes as HTML+mf2 so th question is should the read flow to actually render a page be: storageHTML -> mf2 parser -> storage intermediate object -> final template -> HTML ? Seems like a lot of intermediate steps which might slow down webpage rendering...
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tantek KartikPrabhu: that's roughly what I do, except my "mf2 parser" is PHP DOMDocument and DOMXPath - because when I wrote my storage code in 2009 there was no mf2 parser (so I approximated one "good enough" for my hentry storage)
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tantek and I'm not sure what you mean by -> final template ->
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tantek I go from storage intermediate object (an array of entries with properties for each property) to HTML in the PHP
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KartikPrabhu final template would be the one that puts all the data into HTML with additional presentational classes etc... for final rendering
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yeah that is what I mean by "final template"
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KartikPrabhu what is checkin?
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Loqi A checkin is the action of checking into a location and sharing that information https://indiewebcamp.com/checkin
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KartikPrabhu so it seems there is no agreed way to interpret a post as a check-in: https://indiewebcamp.com/checkin#just_a_note_with_a_location
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prtksxna For a checkin type post, shouldn't it be an h-geo inside of a p-location?
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tantek KartikPrabhu: see /posts
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Loqi prtksxna: GWG left you a message 1 hour, 9 minutes ago: Yes, I have.
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aaronpk prtksxna: what if there's a venue for hte checkin?
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aaronpk most checkins have a venue, not just a lat/lng
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tantek prtksxna: rather than "shouldn't it be?" ask "how do you?"
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tantek reasoning by the negative (trying to falsify approaches at a time) is less efficient than first asking
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KartikPrabhu yup found: https://indiewebcamp.com/posts##with%20a%20p-location%20venue
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prtksxna tantek: I apologize, I thought I had already asked the question
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aaronpk I am curious to see how this shakes out
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prtksxna aaronpk: And the venue will be the p-name of the h-entry?
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prtksxna tantek: Was that better? ^
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tantek no the venue is the p-name of the h-card of the venue
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aaronpk I publish notes with venues and/or lat/lng properties but I don't consider those checkins
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GWG prtksxna: Why mention SemPress?
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aaronpk s/notes/h-entrys
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Loqi aaronpk meant to say: I publish h-entrys with venues and/or lat/lng properties but I don't consider those checkins
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tantek prtksxna: better would be "what is the venue name?"
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tantek or "what is the venue?"
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Loqi A venue is a named location or address/geo that is typically used for checkins https://indiewebcamp.com/venue
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KartikPrabhu yup. I'd do. h-entry > p-location > h-geo > p-name, p-latitude etc...
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prtksxna tantek: ok
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prtksxna tantek: Why would there be an h-card for check-in?
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KartikPrabhu slips out of post-type discussion which he does not plan to publish
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prtksxna tantek: I am checking into a city, should it still be an h-card?
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prtksxna I am very confused at this point
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tantek prtksxna: because checkins typically have a named venue
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prtksxna GWG: In context to your message about wanting to make a base mf2 theme for wordpress
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GWG prtksxna: SemPress isn't a starter theme
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tantek prtksxna: do you know of real world examples of people checking into cities? typically people check into specific venues in a city, e.g. at least an airport.
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: keep in mind that you'll be able to cache any of those intermediate steps if you find rendering is slow after implementing it
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prtksxna tantek: http://prtksxna.com/2014/12/16/weekend-with-rhea-pooja-didi-and-amber-bhayia/
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aaronpk I think I have once or twice checked in to a city. but I'd say that means <1% of my checkins are cities
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: yes. was thinking of immediate code. caching is always possible...
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tantek prtksxna: I'm not seeing anything except "Weekend with Rhea, Pooja and Amber" and date time in an other wise empty square - does the content require JS?
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prtksxna GWG: It had child themes so I though it was one. I didn't know there was a clear distinction for starter themes.
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KartikPrabhu tantek: seems to be a JS loaded map
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prtksxna tantek: Yes, it loads a map
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tantek aaronpk - now that any microformat has a p-name property, perhaps you could use an h-adr to name a city as a checkin location
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: honestly just autolinking and rendering markdown to html took longer than i'd like, so I ended up saving the rendered html
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tantek prtksxna: and if the JS fails to load or errors out?
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aaronpk well checkins are on my 2015 list so I will have to explore this further soon
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GWG prtksxna: A starter theme is one that is minimally styled and designed to be used to create themes by editing it, whereas a child theme is one that inherits the properties of a complete theme
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: haha! I do write articles directly as HTML so that should be no trouble. Auto-linking etc... in notes might be different
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tantek e.g. <span class="h-adr"><span class="p-name p-locality">San Francisco</span>, <abbr class="p-region">CA</abbr></span>
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: do you have some public code I could steal for autolinking @names?
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tantek prtksxna: there is no visible city name in http://prtksxna.com/2014/12/16/weekend-with-rhea-pooja-didi-and-amber-bhayia/ therefore it does not appear to be an example of "checkin in" to a city.
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tantek KartikPrabhu: CASSIS.js auto_link links @-names
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prtksxna_ tantek: Sorry, got disconnected due to a power cut
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tantek np - I think logs are up
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prtksxna_ tantek: I haven't thought of a no-js experience yet
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KartikPrabhu tantek: looking for python so I can use with my current setup :)
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tantek prtksxna_: that's kind of essential for anything indieweb / federated / syndicated / open
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tantek you don't need to no-js all the things - just the content
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prtksxna_ tantek: I understand, its just something I haven't worked on yet
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KartikPrabhu <sigh> it seems easier nowadays to JS embed things than to have fallback content
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tantek prtksxna_: it's a pre-requisite to expressing that information semantically in a way that others could read it
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prtksxna_ GWG: Understood.
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tantek to just express it at all in the content without JS
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GWG prtksxna_: I am, however, using SemPress for inspiration
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tantek thus work on that first before wondering how to mark it up - because you don't have anything to mark up yet!
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prtksxna_ tantek: I have only just started, I'll do that
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: here's the regex https://github.com/kylewm/redwind/blob/master/redwind/util.py#L42
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KartikPrabhu regex....
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prtksxna_ tantek: I am taking very small steps so, and not always steps in the right direction, not having markup for a particular post type was an oversight, not a feature.
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kylewm you expected maybe a recursive descent parser?
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aaronpk there's a good @-matching regex in cassis IIRC
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tantek prtksxna_: no problem - that's what we're to help with! figuring out dependencies and prioritizing
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aaronpk i think it handles all the edge cases, which there are a zillion of
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prtksxna_ tantek: I'll just make it "{{title}} at {{location name}}" in my html. Is there anything else I'd need to do in terms of markup?
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: <shrug> it all seems voodoo to me! ;)
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prtksxna_ Of course mf2 classes once I understand what needs to happen there
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tantek prtksxna_: yes - that's the right approach - first figure out how do you want to present the information at all to people viewing the post - what is the text first design of what you're trying to express.
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: thanks though :)
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tantek prtksxna_: right - first the text that "looks right" to you. then we add the markup.
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KartikPrabhu will all these regex's fail if unicode URLs become a thing... ?
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aaronpk yes
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kylewm heh
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KartikPrabhu re.compile(one problem -> two problem)
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KartikPrabhu Error: /me doesn't know regex
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aaronpk i tried using a ü in a hashtag and it broke my matcher
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kylewm yeah [a-zA-Z0-9] is a very ASCII-centric view of things isn't it
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aaronpk http://aaron.pk/n4Yi1
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tantek KartikPrabhu: and here I thought you were talking about @-names, not URLs.
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tantek :P
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KartikPrabhu tantek: it is worse with @names... they already can be unicode
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tantek not on Twitter - try again
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KartikPrabhu really!
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KartikPrabhu how every English-centric
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tantek aaronpk - I don't know what you mean - in the IG version: http://instagram.com/p/uXBC1fDcrh/ the hashtags aren't linked - therefore it clearly doesn't work :P
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tantek KartikPrabhu: nah, legacy inheritance. unix usernames are also limited as such.
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tantek twitter is _0-9a-zA-Z case insensitive
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tantek KartikPrabhu: as is Instagram as well
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yeah. we still haven't gotten out of the English-centric legacy
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tantek two most common sources of @-names
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aaronpk did the instagram autolink that tag in the app? i don't remember!
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tantek and won't for a while - usernames are kinda stuck there in systems
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tantek aaronpk - I don't know - I can't link to a page in the app :P
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aaronpk pretty sure the instagram app supports deep linking, but i don't know how to find the URL scheme
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aaronpk "deep linking" is fancy app speak for hyperlinks
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aaronpk :P
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tantek anyway - when someone finds an instance of auto-linked unicode that works in @-names OR #-hashtags - let me know - until then - wishfully handwave away.
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tantek I mean yeah, as someone with an 8-bit last name, I'd appreciate it too. It's just not something that the silos have bothered with yet, so it's going to take someone that cares A LOT about it personally to make it happen.
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tantek (on their personal site first of course)
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prtksxna_ tantek: http://prtksxna.com/2014/12/16/weekend-with-rhea-pooja-didi-and-amber-bhayia/ http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fprtksxna.com%2F2014%2F12%2F16%2Fweekend-with-rhea-pooja-didi-and-amber-bhayia%2F
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prtksxna_ Better?
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KartikPrabhu hihi funny how "amber" means different things as names in English and in Hindi :P
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prtksxna_ hehe
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prtksxna_ GWG: How do you manage different post types on your blog? Do you use a particular plugin to add the meta data?
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GWG prtksxna_: I've been working on that and something called the Indieweb Post Kinds plugin, which replaced the Indieweb Taxonomy plugin
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KartikPrabhu added very very preliminary code for file-storage of notes. doesn't do much storing yet. but is a start: https://github.com/kartikprabhu/pullback-note
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prtksxna_ GWG: That includes likes and replies? Will it also include check-ins, status updates and the likes?
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GWG I haven't gotten to check-ins, but it could.
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GWG It does do likes and replies
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prtksxna_ GWG: I am using ACF right now to add fields, based on my post category and it feels dirty
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GWG What fields did you add?
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prtksxna_ GWG: I have lat/lon/name for check-ins, I have a field for geojson for "trips"
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prtksxna_ GWG: Certain kinds of "featured images" for posts about games/books
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GWG prtksxna_: I worked a bit on a plugin called Simple Location to add location data to posts.
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GWG But I didn't go very far. It's a lower priority.
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prtksxna_ GWG: I'd like to have a single plugin that gives me all the post types I need and is extensible too. The way I am doing it feels dirty.
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GWG You are welcome to look at Indieweb Post Kinds if you want. Pull requests welcome
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GWG Also issue/feature requests
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prtksxna_ GWG: I've seen SimpleLocation I think
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GWG prtksxna_: I never wrote display code for it.
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prtksxna_ I meant here - https://github.com/dshanske/simple-location
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GWG prtksxna_: I'm saying it has the metadata fields, but I never wrote any display functionality.
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prtksxna_ I see
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prtksxna_ I'll try your plugin tomorrow. Thanks GWG!
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GWG prtksxna_: It continues to evolve. I'm obsessive that way
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prtksxna_ GWG: :) I too try to make at least one improvement to by blog everyday.
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kartikprabhu.com edited /User:Kartikprabhu.com (+407) "/* Itching */ add pullback note" (view diff)
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tantek prtksxna++ for "make at least one improvement to by blog everyday"
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Loqi prtksxna has 5 karma
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tantek s/by/my
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Loqi tantek meant to say: prtksxna++ for "make at least one improvement to my blog everyday"
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prtksxna_ :)
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prtksxna_ tantek: Did you get a chance to see the links?
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tantek this is better! http://prtksxna.com/2014/12/16/weekend-with-rhea-pooja-didi-and-amber-bhayia/
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prtksxna_ tantek: The mf2 part too?
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tantek very close!
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tantek the h-card for the venue should breakdown the locality, region, country-name
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KartikPrabhu booo python does not allow "-" in module names :|
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prtksxna_ tantek: Commenting here might be the easiest https://github.com/prtksxna/feedme/commit/187b95354d66c301704b83dbc4130540c4f95840
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prtksxna_ tantek: I am not storing that data :(
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tantek you're displaying it though!
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prtksxna_ tantek: I meant not broken down like that
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tantek then you cannot mark it up as components of an address
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tantek since you don't have the components!
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prtksxna_ I should change that though, rather than work around it.
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Loqi I agree
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prtksxna_ :O
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kartikprabhu.com edited /User:Kartikprabhu.com (+0) "correct pullback_note URL" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (-50) "/* Colin Tedford */ dfn 'cause that totally makes my site more done; minor cleanup" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] Élie Michel commented 'Des nouvelles de Freeder 7 min read Initialement annoncé par Phyks suite á un état des lieux...' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/php-mf2 (http://known.exppad.com/2015/des-nouvelles-de-freeder)
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Loqi [mention] Élie Michel commented 'Des nouvelles de Freeder 7 min read Initialement annoncé par Phyks suite á un état des lieux...' on a post that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/ (http://known.exppad.com/2015/des-nouvelles-de-freeder)
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eliemichel Well, why is my article considered as a comment by Loqi?
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cweiske I guess because you have a in-reply-to link in your article
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Loqi cweiske: tantek left you a message on 12/2 at 11:14am: I highlighted what was relevant to the termination of feed file support, the inefficiency, and implied tax of updating or maintaining that *separate* code path for generating a side file from generating the real world HTML that people actually read / use on a day to day basis.
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kylewm eliemichel: cweiske is right and I think the "that linked to" bit is a genuine bug. the code that does that stuff is here https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.io/blob/e78c0b7f26a4a9bb439f75dcd2d10ee3e235c114/helpers/webmention_processor.rb#L122
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eliemichel okey
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eliemichel there should not be any in-reply-to
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eliemichel this is a bug in Known
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cweiske a known bug :)
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eliemichel ^^
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eliemichel but anyway, it is relative to a single link
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cweiske Known's known bugs
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eliemichel not the one that points to iwc
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eliemichel Yeah it has been fixed some hours ago
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cweiske one should have "known" as nickname
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cweiske "he is known"
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cweiske known's known Known bugs
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eliemichel all: Do you know a good self-hostable picture gallery using webmentions to get comments on pictures?
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cweiske no. I doubt such one exists
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eliemichel by good, I mean that it is a) aesthetic and b) easy-to-upload a lot of pictures
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eliemichel Ok
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eliemichel I should write it myself…
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cweiske you could use an existing gallery application and append javascript webmention comments
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cweiske which would be the least effort solution
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eliemichel cweiske: Yes, but actually I do not know any good existing library
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eliemichel Currently, I use minigalnano
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eliemichel ( https://github.com/sebsauvage/MinigalNano )
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eliemichel But it is not so clean and soooo slow
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KevinMarks !tell voxpelli I switched to facepile markup, but it looks like we get stale profile image links which twitter 404s: http://www.kevinmarks.com/twitterhatespeech.html
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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voxpelli KevinMarks: Yeah, not sure what to do about that – Brid.gy sends me Twitter's public avatar URL:s which gets changed whenever someone changes their avatar
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Loqi voxpelli: KevinMarks left you a message 1 minute ago: I switched to facepile markup, but it looks like we get stale profile image links which twitter 404s: http://www.kevinmarks.com/twitterhatespeech.html
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KevinMarks !tell snarfed I switched to facepile markup, but it looks like we get stale profile image links which twitter 404s: http://www.kevinmarks.com/twitterhatespeech.html
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KevinMarks profile link at the time is what we want, but twitter purging them is annoying
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voxpelli Either I or Brid.gy needs to cache the avatars or otherwise provide a persistent URL
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KevinMarks it also shows the fave+retweet pattern in the facepile as the same avatar twice
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KevinMarks hm, also the name vs summary can be a bit odd if the summary starts with the name: http://www.kevinmarks.com/
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voxpelli KevinMarks: Showing it twice feels right though?Not sure how to otherwise show that two actions has been done
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cweiske two small action icons on the avatar?
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KevinMarks that would be hard to do in CSS
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KevinMarks I think it's OK
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voxpelli Regarding the broken avatars – I could probably add an error-handler to the image tags which in turn would append a new css class which one could use to hide/replace the broken image – would look better than it currently does
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voxpelli Regarding the summary part – that's probably something I should fix in https://github.com/voxpelli/webpage-webmentions/issues/10 – I'll add it as an example there
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cweiske gravatar/libravatar have a default image url parameter for non-existing images
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cweiske such a thing could be used for non-existing avatar images
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cweiske http://wiki.libravatar.org/api/ section "Default URL for missing images"
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KevinMarks it is twitter purging old images that is the real problem, so a cache as part of brid.gy would likely be the best fix
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KevinMarks you could switch to the twitter "current image" url
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KevinMarks I missed this xkcd: http://xkcd.com/1467/
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@bookprescom 10 Marketing Predictions You Should Prepare for in 2015 >> http://www.quicksprout.com/?p=29907&utm_content=buffer888c4&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #SocialMedia Tip from Neil Patel. #SelfPublish #IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/552781769318350848)
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ben_thatmust Photo uploads working! just a little awkward at the moment, but it works! https://ben.thatmustbe.me/photo/2015/1/7/3/
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Acidnerd anoyone around ?
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petermolnar some of us
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Acidnerd got my domain name, my vps running, and i'm trying to get Known running
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ben_thatmust ew, audio recording on mobile is a mess, everything stores in a different format and there is very little to do any conversion
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Phyks bear: hi, I saw https://github.com/bear/ninka. What is the current status? According to the readme file, micropub support is not yet full?
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FergusL hi, just being curious, I read about Known here so I tried it. Why is it so being talked about? Becaue it's new? I have to say it looks great!
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cweiske because it implements a bunch of indieweb features
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cweiske like webmention support, microformats support, and comments extracted from other blogs
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2015-01-14-homebrew-website-club (+13) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2015-01-14-homebrew-website-club (+11) "/* URLs */" (view diff)
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jonnybarnes Is it barnaby's birthday today? https://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4_2Ebw/
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GWG I haven't seen barnaby around much lately. Not sure
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Loqi [bridgy] https://facebook.com/1579270045652472#506306793 was invited to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-14-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi [bridgy] Gregor Morrill RSVPed yes to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-14-homebrew-website-club (https://facebook.com/1579270045652472#27301982)
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ben_thatmustbeme i saw him once like 3 weeks ago, then poof he was gone again
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GWG These people and their...real lives.
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FergusL cweiske: thanks for the clarification. wasn't/isn't very clear to me if indieweb (as in, here, this channel) is a (in)formal thinking group or if there are contributions in terms of specifications, research or code to the web dev tools
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cweiske code comes first
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cweiske then you can talk about it, but it's preferred that instead of talking about whats and ifs you have some working code
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ben_thatmustbeme FergusL, honestly i don't really know what the group is classified as or that I really care to classify it. Its just a group working toward some common principals and goals. Yes some hash out informal specs, others create tools
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ben_thatmustbeme but yes, actually doing rather than just discussing is the idea
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ben_thatmustbeme meetups are all pretty much half just coding time so you can get what you talk about working
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jonnybarnes GWG, I gather from his notes he's been travelling around Europe recenty
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rhiaro Hola, does anyone know if you can override the default public/private setting on a multi-user Known site, to selectively allow some posts to be public [yet]?
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rhiaro Trying out Known for our kids programming club, and we want most of the chat to be private, but it would be good to let them build up a sort of portfolio by posting publicly about their projects
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FergusL cweiske, ben_thatmustbeme : good to know! pretty much how I like work to be done at other places like hackerspace and such
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davidpeach hey people.
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ben_thatmustbeme hey
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davidpeach hows things?
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ben_thatmustbeme good
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Loqi [mention] Phyks commented 'Publishing through the Known API 7 min read As stated in my last article, I'm considering mo...' on a post that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub (https://known.phyks.me/2015/publishing-through-the-known-api)
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Loqi [mention] Phyks commented 'Publishing through the Known API 7 min read As stated in my last article, I'm considering mo...' on a post that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Python (https://known.phyks.me/2015/publishing-through-the-known-api)
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Loqi [mention] Phyks commented 'Publishing through the Known API 7 min read As stated in my last article, I'm considering mo...' on a post that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://known.phyks.me/2015/publishing-through-the-known-api)
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jonnybarnes hey davidpeach how are you embedding other people's tweets in your site?
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@rhiaro How long do webmentions take? I don't know if something is broken (between two Known instances) or if I'm just really impatient. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/552851045018124288)
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davidpeach hi jonnybarnes. WordPress is handling the embedded tweets automatically. Just pasting the full tweet url into the content renders it as the full tweet. Same for youtube videos as well.
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davidpeach Does that help you jonnybarnes ? Do you use wordpress?
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@rhiaro Okay, so I got an immediate webmention one way but not the other, needs further investigation. (twitter.com/_/status/552853176206901248)
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ben_thatmustbeme rhairo, how long webmentions take to send depends on the software, there is nothing saying any time constraints. I believe known does it all immediately. My site has it on a cron job, so it can take up to 5 minutes
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rhiaro Hmm, I have a Known instance on indiehosters and one on withknown. Mentioning the withknown one from indiehosters worked, but not the other way around, so I think something isn't setup right
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ben_thatmustbeme i'd guess indiehosters isn't receiving it correctly. seems more likely to be on the receiver than then sender, but either is possible
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ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro, I try sending a mention to my site from your known site, and i can tell you if it went in to the queue right away
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ben_thatmustbeme just let me know before you do
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rhiaro Also twitter integration and email notifications aren't working on indiehosters, just teething problems I guess :)
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rhiaro Okay, I'll send one in a minute, thanks!
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ben_thatmustbeme !tell aaronpk, weird, your like of my post got determined to be a mention by php-comments, and not as a like
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ben_thatmustbeme sighs... i did it again
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your loqi
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Loqi your: kylewm left you a message on 9/12 at 12:54pm: markup look ok to me, I think it's an indiewebify-me bug (it looks like it just takes the first h-card on the page)
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Loqi your: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 33 seconds ago: like of my post got determined to be a mention by php-comments, and not as a like
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Loqi yeah!
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weird loqi
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Loqi weird: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 1 minute ago: like of my post got determined to be a mention by php-comments, and not as a like
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ben_thatmustbeme !tell aaronpk weird, your like of my post got determined to be a mention by php-comments, and not as a like
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ben_thatmustbeme i always end up using the comma, really need to watch that
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Acidnerd if i want to get Known running on a VPS, what would be the best OS to get running ?
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petermolnar whichever you feel like learning; due to the easy of use compared to the rest I'd start with debian; ubuntu can become messy
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Acidnerd my choice is CentOS 7/6/5 or Ubuntu 14 or Debian 7 or CoreOS or FreeBSD or Custom image
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rhiaro ben_thatmustbeme: Sent you a reply (from community.prewired.org), I'm not expecting it to get through though
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snarfed davidpeach: hi! happy to review your article, feel free to send it over
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Loqi snarfed: KevinMarks left you a message 5 hours, 41 minutes ago: I switched to facepile markup, but it looks like we get stale profile image links which twitter 404s: http://www.kevinmarks.com/twitterhatespeech.html
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snarfed KevinMarks: yup, Twitter doesn't have officially supported evergreen urls for profile pictures. details on /Twitter
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petermolnar Acidnerd: centos is stable and you might benefit more from learning it than debian, but it has some strange ways of doing things. It's technically a free version of RedHat. Debian has many packages pre-built, but it needs some love over the times. Ubuntu has disgraced itself as a server in my opinion after 12.04, and I would not use it again.
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petermolnar CoreOS might be too minimal to start with
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petermolnar I'd got either CentOS 7 or Debian 7
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Acidnerd well i guess i'll go CentoOS then
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Acidnerd just waiting for my subdomain dns to wake up and i can start installing known
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GWG I vote for CentOS
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snarfed jonnybarnes: also https://dev.twitter.com/web/embedded-tweets
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Acidnerd is there any guide to install Known for intermediate noobs ?
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Acidnerd i tried on ubuntu and it was a mess http://docs.withknown.com/en/latest/install/instructions.html
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petermolnar the upcoming debian 8 will be a mess, and for that reason, I'd vote centos as well even though I'm still running debian ( I have a feeling that when I upgrade, I'll move on to something else )
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petermolnar installing known from scratch is a bit messy
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Acidnerd any Known pal around willing to drive me in the process ?
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petermolnar I only did it once
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petermolnar and not with mongo but with the mysql driver
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petermolnar but I can help here and there
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Acidnerd do you think i should try another project that implement webmentions for a start ?
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Acidnerd if so, witch one beside wordpress should be the best to try out?
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Acidnerd i was thinking going mysql too
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Acidnerd not confortable with mongo
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petermolnar go for mongo, the mysql storage of known is... not nice
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petermolnar mongo is not hard to learn and the learning curve is pretty fast, don't worry
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GWG I'm biased toward Wordpress
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Acidnerd what u mean GWG ?
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Acidnerd all right petermolnar i'll try
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petermolnar GWG I'm still on WordPress as well, becase we're lazy bastards :)
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Acidnerd what is running behind https://ben.thatmustbe.me/ ?
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Acidnerd i have several wordpress site that i can tie to indieweb, when i'm done with mine, i guess wordpress implementation will be easy
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Acidnerd i really like how ben_thatmust got it
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GWG Acidnerd: I use Wordpress
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GWG petermolnar: Is that really your reason?
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Acidnerd i'll use my mysic & a few others using wordpress to try #indieweb with wordpress
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Acidnerd but for my personal i wanted something different
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Acidnerd like known or p3k ? or what is behind https://ben.thatmustbe.me/
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petermolnar GWG partially, yes, and because I use most of it's functionality as well. But there are many thing I dislike with WordPress, like the lack of out-of-the-box persistent object cache support, the sqlite backend option, and so on. A part of me loves WP, another hates it for not being more flexible.
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Acidnerd same here, and work with it with enough clients all day, to be motivated to try something else
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petermolnar Acidnerd: at the bottom of Ben's site you'll see a link: This site is powered by Postly
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petermolnar https://github.com/dissolve/postly
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Acidnerd interesting,
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GWG petermolnar: There is a long standing proposal for a database abstraction layer to allow drop in database backends
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petermolnar I know
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GWG petermolnar: I can agree. But isn't that the same with any system?
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petermolnar but the MySQL db structure they use - they one the hold on to - suck as well; it's still MyISAM optimized, lacks any features innodb provides even though innodb is the default since MySQL 5.1 (?)
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petermolnar no, not all of the systems
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petermolnar I do really like the approach of grav, but it's not mature enough yet
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GWG petermolnar: It is their insistence on backwards compatibility
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petermolnar there are things you should not keep forever
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petermolnar just how many years they want to be backwards compatible to?
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jonnybarnes ahh, thanks davidpeach, snarfed
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@mapkyca @rhiaro Hmm... you could try sending the webmention manually via curl - if you have headers on you should see if it is a redirect... (twitter.com/_/status/552862771780780032)
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petermolnar GWG sidenote on why wordpress sucks: a blog of a friend of mine received 42k comment spams. I now realized that wp_nonce is not used on the frontend, just at the backend, which is especially to protect the admin remote POSTs. I have no idea why it's not included in the comment engine by default.
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petermolnar s/the\ admin/the\ admin\ from/
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Loqi petermolnar meant to say: GWG sidenote on why wordpress sucks: a blog of a friend of mine received 42k comment spams. I now realized that wp_nonce is not used on the frontend, just at the backend, which is especially to protect the\ admin\ from remote POSTs. I have no idea why it's not included in the comment engine by default.
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ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro, sorry, was doing some work (at work right now)
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ben_thatmustbeme i didn't receive a webmention
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ben_thatmustbeme it wouldn't get autoposted anyway as i use vouch for everything
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ben_thatmustbeme Acidnerd: postly doesn't have much in the way of clean install yet, but it should be pretty easy to get up and running from a mysql dump
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ben_thatmustbeme a little more work than the average person wants to do, but i have hacked on it quite a bit from opencart
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ben_thatmustbeme basically its just the system libraries that are left from opencart
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rhiaro ben_thatmustbeme: Occured to me you should have recieved it... They're sending okay (at least I recieved one at my withknown okay) just not being recieved
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GWG petermolnar: I agree with you, but I do see improvements
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GWG petermolnar:http://kovshenin.com/2012/nonces-on-the-front-end-is-a-bad-idea/
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snarfed petermolnar: it's been discussed here a lot before, but fwiw I don't buy the wp spam complaint
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snarfed met is really good, and I think it's even built in now
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@rhiaro @mapkyca endpoint h ttps://community.prewired.org/webmention/ (twitter.com/_/status/552870966024732673)
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GWG Spam id a problem on all platforms
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GWG Hi, snarfed, by the way
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snarfed er akismet
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snarfed see https://snarfed.org/wordpress-spam-statistics-comments-pingbacks-trackbacks
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snarfed you may have to enable it, but that's a low bar
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ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro, whats the URL on that post you tried to mention me in?
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ben_thatmustbeme either way i should have an entry in my history, so its showing like i never received a webmention
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GWG I just added a service solely to serve my less savvy associations.
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snarfed GWG: but some platforms handle it well so far it's not necessarily a *user* problem
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snarfed GWG: hi!
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GWG Reply to a post by email
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snarfed s/far/that/
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GWG Wondering if that is something that I should add to the wiki. Sort of a bridge
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ben_thatmustbeme !tell kylewm try the camera button :) https://ben.thatmustbe.me/static/mobilepub/ you just need to make sure you check for 'file' not 'photo' like ownyourgram. i don't know if i can change it
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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rhiaro ben_thatmustbeme: I used known's reply on a status update at https://community.prewired.org/2015/known-d, but did a proper post with the link in at https://community.prewired.org/2015/known in case it does something different for posts compared to status updates
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rhiaro https://community.prewired.org/2015/much-test linking to rhiaro.withknown worked
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, i'll try sending them from curl to make sure its not something on my end
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ben_thatmustbeme ohhhh, yeah, i'm replying retry-with-vouch
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bear !tell Phyks I have the start for micropub in place, just need to finish the tests before declaring it ready and pushing the code
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Acidnerd reading the wiki, but i'm not sure what project to implement first, between wordpress, known, p3k, or postly or ?
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GWG Acidnerd: Do what is right for you
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ben_thatmustbeme acidnerd, whatever you like. what are you looking to do with it?
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GWG All of us have biases
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ben_thatmustbeme known is probably easiest for indieweb things as webmentions and mf2 are built in
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ben_thatmustbeme wordpress has plugins in varying states of development to make it work too
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ben_thatmustbeme p3k, isn't fully open source i don't believe, you'd have to talk to aaronpk about that one
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rhiaro Hm, so would be good if Known didn't fail silently if something other than 2xx is returned
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ben_thatmustbeme postly is open but is definetly my hacky project so its up to you
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ben_thatmustbeme hmmm, i need to review vouch again, i thought it should be going in despite lack of vouch, thats on me. it should just be moderated entry
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rhiaro aha okay
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Acidnerd what i want to be able to do : centralize my post on my website and push them to at least FB & TW (g+ optional would be nice)
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Acidnerd be able to post various different types of post
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Acidnerd & be able to choose when/if i want to push it to silo's
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aaronpk good morning
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Loqi aaronpk: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 1 hour, 27 minutes ago: like of my post got determined to be a mention by php-comments, and not as a like
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Loqi aaronpk: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 1 hour, 26 minutes ago: weird, your like of my post got determined to be a mention by php-comments, and not as a like
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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indie-visitor milans
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aaronpk eliemichel: kylewm: The "that linked to" in the notification is not a bug, because that comment did in fact link to a wiki page. It's just showing up as a comment because there is an in-reply-to link
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kylewm aaronpk: shouldn't it say "Elie Michel linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/php-mentions" though? instead of "commented on a post that linked to"?
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Loqi kylewm: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 27 minutes ago: try the camera button :) https://ben.thatmustbe.me/static/mobilepub/ you just need to make sure you check for 'file' not 'photo' like ownyourgram. i don't know if i can change it
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petermolnar Acidnerd g+ posting sucks, there is not api for that; the social network auto poster plugin for wordpress does what you want, but don't ever look at it's code
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aaronpk kylewm: if it was a regular post then yes. but it's showing up as a reply
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eliemichel This is not a reply-to link…
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aaronpk but there is an in-reply-to link in your post
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eliemichel For another link
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aaronpk I don't understand "for another link"
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aaronpk is your post supposed to be a reply?
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eliemichel <a class="in-reply-to">Foo</a> <a>Bar</a>
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eliemichel This is a reply to Foo
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eliemichel Bar should not see it as a reply to itself, though it is mentionned in it
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eliemichel sould it?
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aaronpk oh I see what you're saying. It should say "Elie Michel linked to indiewebcamp.com... in a comment"
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eliemichel That's it
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eliemichel ok
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aaronpk or "Elie Michel posted a comment that linked to indiewebcamp.com"
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aaronpk can you file an issue with a link to your post and description of what it should have said? https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.io/issues
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eliemichel ok
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aaronpk thx
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ben_thatmustbeme well i'm getting closer... all my webmentions seem to be coming in as mentions not likes or comments
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ben_thatmustbeme annoying
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ben_thatmustbeme i'll have to look at it after work
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: make sure your're checking for u-like-of which may also be an h-cite, not just a string
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk, thats whats strange, it wasn't my code
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ben_thatmustbeme although i have modified php-comments slightly, i might have broken it
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aaronpk ah
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aaronpk weird.
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ben_thatmustbeme i don't think it likes there being a like-of an h-cite
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ben_thatmustbeme that seems to be why
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aaronpk it's weird cause I thought I was using php-comments on my site and handled that case properly
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, it might be the changes i made to php-mf2
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ben_thatmustbeme but it looks to be correct to me
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aaronpk oh you know what maybe I'm just thinking abotu the recent work I did on webmention.io for this
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ben_thatmustbeme i just rolled php-comments back and it seems to be the same
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ben_thatmustbeme well aaronpk, i figured that one out
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aaronpk oh?
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ben_thatmustbeme php-comments only checkout for 'like' not 'like-of'
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ben_thatmustbeme oddly
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aaronpk I *just* changed that
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aaronpk you need 0.1.7
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ben_thatmustbeme well that takes care of one of my issues
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ben_thatmustbeme the other is that https://community.prewired.org/2015/known-d is processing as a mention... with no author info at all
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ben_thatmustbeme which i think is due to the fact of assuming items[0]
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ben_thatmustbeme not sure how to deal with that, hmm
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aaronpk I *just now* realized that Medium has a floating footer bar with all the author info and action buttons
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Acidnerd is happy because : http://108.61.210.35/ first step
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aaronpk wow the initial apache page got a lot prettier
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aaronpk hasn't installed apache in several years
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Acidnerd hehe indeed
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Acidnerd i was wondering if i could get apache & nginx on the same box
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aaronpk totally
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Acidnerd and if it make any sense
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aaronpk i do that
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aaronpk apache listens on 127.0.0.1:80, nginx listens on 0.0.0.0:80 and reverse-proxies to apache
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Acidnerd good, because there is many nice piece of code i would like to run and they need nginx/node/ etc..
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aaronpk you may not need apache at all
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Acidnerd so by default they would not mess with each other ?
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Acidnerd Known need apache right ?
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aaronpk some people have gotten it to work with nginx
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/Known#Setup_Known_on_nginx
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Acidnerd i'm still confused at what install to enter the indieweb
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aaronpk at the most basic you just need something that can serve HTML pages. That's the super manual version of course, but a good first step
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Acidnerd i'm a experienced wordpress/joomla user, but would like to meet a new piece of code, a fresh one :)
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Acidnerd groking this https://elliottucker.net/2014/setting-up-known-with-nginx-indieweb
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KevinMarks_ Hm, a startup called "vouch" http://techcrunch.com/2015/01/06/vouch-trust-based-loans/
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kylewm Acidnerd, that elliottucker article is good but a bit dated now. installation should generally be easier than that now
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ben_thatmustbeme !tell rhiaro, thanks processing webmentions properly again on my end
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Acidnerd kylewm, any link that describe a updated install ?
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kylewm Acidnerd, http://indiewebcamp.com/Known#Setup_Known_on_nginx
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Acidnerd that's where i'am
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kylewm are you using Mongo or MySQL?
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Acidnerd Note that Ben Werdmülller recommends MySQL over MongoDB these days[1]
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Acidnerd note sure, yet
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Acidnerd someone said to use mongo earlier, but the wiki state otherwise
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kylewm yeah I saw that; not sure what the objection is to mysql
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Acidnerd i never used mongodb, but I can learn, i don't want specially the easy option, i want the best option
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Loqi gives Acidnerd the best option
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kylewm !tell petermolnar genuinely curious, why do you say the MySQL storage backend for Known is not nice?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Acidnerd right now i'm at the point of my LAMP is ready
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Acidnerd Known is uploaded at the right place
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aaronpk mongo is not a very good idea in general
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Acidnerd but since i want to have this on a subdomain, i'm groking this first https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-set-up-apache-virtual-hosts-on-centos-7
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk, i got photo uploads working from my app
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aaronpk YAY
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aaronpk awesome
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ben_thatmustbeme only thing i had to change was that it sends as $_FILES['file'] instead of 'photo' like ownyourgram does
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ben_thatmustbeme and i don't know if i can change that
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aaronpk what does? the cordova plugin?
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah
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aaronpk seems like that should be something you could change
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ben_thatmustbeme actually i think i prefer it, more generic
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ben_thatmustbeme i could do the same with video and audio
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ben_thatmustbeme although the encoding mess on that will be quite interesting
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aaronpk the point of using names like "photo" and "video" is because then the receiving endpoint knows what it is
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ben_thatmustbeme i include type= in my post all the time
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ben_thatmustbeme have been doing that for a while
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aaronpk also OwnYourGram sends both a photo and video, the photo being a still frame that can be shown in the interface before playing the video, or as a fallback in case the micropub endpoint doesn't support video
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aaronpk I would strongly discourage the use of "type", based on the way h-entry is going
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ben_thatmustbeme ahh
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ben_thatmustbeme what do you mean?
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aaronpk type is a very programming/backend-specific mindset
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ben_thatmustbeme hmmm, i use it as an explicit way of telling the site what type, so my site mp-endpoint isn't just doing a best guess on post type
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aaronpk same with the micropub endpoint though. there are few reasons to actually distinguish posts based on type
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aaronpk you can get pretty far with just a "note", where the note may contain a caption, photo/video, audio, etc
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aaronpk location
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ben_thatmustbeme yes but the display and interaction are totally different
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aaronpk not *totally* different
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aaronpk i'll have more details and examples of what I mean once I drop my post type from my URLs
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KevinMarks_ A college student reviews silos: https://medium.com/@thatswattsup/a-teenagers-view-on-social-media-1df945c09ac6
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KevinMarks_ Note the comments about WordPress
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aaronpk !tell snarfed got a weird facebook URL from bridgy: https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/facebook/11500459/1566004873636047/1566004873636047_1566006050302596 It's either a comment or a like on a facebook event
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KevinMarks_ Media types make more sense as they have type specific markup <video> <audio> <img>
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KevinMarks_ Isn't the fallback a link to the file?
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aaronpk KevinMarks_: media type is important, but my point is you don't need a separate "video" *post type*, it's just a note with a video
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aaronpk especially from the creation UI side. facebook, twitter and path all have a single inferface for posting notes where you can then attach photos or videos
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KevinMarks_ Tumblr is the other way round though
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aaronpk and look which one is more popular ;)
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KevinMarks_ Well, they all started with simpler "assume just one" link/image/video ui
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KevinMarks_ I think there is space for both UI modes, so making sure that the micropub protocol supports both ways is good
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aaronpk that's why i'm not a fan of including a "type" field. because h-entry already works by implying post type based on fields present
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KevinMarks_ Is the type a layout hint in effect?
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aaronpk I think the presence of a video should be the layout hint
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KevinMarks_ A video may just be context to explain the point
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KevinMarks_ Not necessarily the core element
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aaronpk anyway a lot of this talk is not important until we have more examples of people publishing photos and videos, not to mention consuming them in readers
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KevinMarks_ http://epeus.blogspot.com/2007/08/i-happen-to-have-mr-mcluhan-right-here.html
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aaronpk KevinMarks_: also that would seem to indicate that not having an explicit "video" post type is better
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KevinMarks_ The video there is an adjunct to the point of the post
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ben_thatmustbeme consuming in readers will be a big thing
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aaronpk KevinMarks_: that's also clearly an article because it has a name
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm not saying you make type= required for micropub
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KevinMarks_ Whereas the video is the point of this one http://epeus.blogspot.com/2007/06/jobs-wwdc-keynote-in-chapters.html
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ben_thatmustbeme i have posted notes that have a title, doesn't make 1 line of text and article though
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aaronpk KevinMarks_: add those as examples on /video ?
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KevinMarks_ Sad how video formats rot
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ben_thatmustbeme i think perhaps media-type for posts including a media file, as those are definitely explicit formats
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aaronpk again none of this is important except from the UI perspective. the UI of creating, the presentation UI on the author's website, and the presentation UI in readers
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ben_thatmustbeme yes, but micropub should be able to relay the desired UI to the authors website too, i'm thinking type= is more an explicit clue to the author's site to "display as this post type"
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aaronpk this is what I'm saying... authors do not necessarily say "display this as this post type"
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ben_thatmustbeme correct, its optional
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ben_thatmustbeme its also the choice of the author's site to ignore it and just display it as whatever type it wants
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ben_thatmustbeme so why are we arguing?
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aaronpk i'm saying we need more examples before we can really make any good decisions
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ben_thatmustbeme ok
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ben_thatmustbeme while i have you, i had another idea i wanted your take on
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ben_thatmustbeme having micropub be able to store arbitrary "setting" for a client
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aaronpk such as?
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ben_thatmustbeme with a namespace based of the client name when requesting a token, so as to cause no conflicts
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aaronpk why can't the client store it itself?
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ben_thatmustbeme multiple devices
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ben_thatmustbeme multiple locations
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aaronpk multiple devices running the same app?
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah
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aaronpk hmm
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aaronpk what kind of settings?
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ben_thatmustbeme pretty much anything you would put in settings, UI choices, preferred image size when taking photos, etc
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ben_thatmustbeme things that make sense for a mp-client to store. If i lose my phone and get a new one, my configs are all stored in the "cloud" for most apps
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ben_thatmustbeme cut out the "cloud" bit and say "my site"
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aaronpk interesting
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ben_thatmustbeme its a bit early for much need for centralized storage, but i'd rather it store on my terms. I was also thinking in terms of like autocomplete or macros i could define for myself
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aaronpk that makes some amount of sense
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Acidnerd geez, i fucked up apache it seems while preping my virtual servers
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Acidnerd anyone know why/how this can happen ? https://i.imgur.com/ItypmTK.png
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aaronpk Acidnerd: you need to look at the apache error log and i'llt tell you more info
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aaronpk might be a syntax error in the config for example
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Acidnerd last thing i was doing was following a virtual host tutorial to separate my domains
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Acidnerd grrr my var/log/httpd is empty
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Acidnerd Ha, found it httpd: Syntax error on line 354 of /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf: Syntax error on line 7
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Acidnerd goshhh it was a missing <
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Acidnerd hihi
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bear ben_thatmustbeme - I was thinking along those lines myself when I implemented micropub - my thought is to have a service discovery for type=(list of entry params) like syncidate-to is handled
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bear which also allows for the micropub client to get a sense of what types to offer in it's UI
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Acidnerd one more step forward : http://108.61.210.35/
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aaronpk woot
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Loqi yay!
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Acidnerd and dns are propagated : http://blog.rmendes.net/
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Acidnerd that will be my indieweb site url
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Acidnerd ok, now i need one final advice for Known, do i go the nginx/apache mongo/mysql road?
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Acidnerd time to install known there
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aaronpk it works equally well on nginx and apache except for the IndiePub plugin I was using. I think mysql is recommended now though
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bret.io edited /Webmention (-42) "Shortened title to fix TOC display issue" (view diff)
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aaronpk yay better presentation of invitations! https://aaronparecki.com/events/2015/01/09/1/uss-improvise
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Loqi :D
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cweiske year 4 for indieauth.com, and still no federation :/ welcome, indie year 2015
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aaronpk meanwhile, there are implementations of IndieAuth that do support it :)
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aaronpk but that is definitely a goal for me this year, hopefully on the sooner side. it just wasn't really appropriate to list in my 2014 wrap-up post
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Loqi [mention] http://pfauth.com/publishing/2198102682/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/notes (webmention)
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kylewm twitter web UI just keeps getting worse. now i cannot select the text of a tweet
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kylewm it zooms in/out on the tweet and then deselects my selection
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aaronpk oh jeez
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bret anyone else getting errors from sandeeps webmention endpoint?
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ben_thatmustbeme kylewm, did you see? as requested, photos work, a little wonky at the moment
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tantek aaronpk, neat event presentation upgrade!
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Acidnerd guess what : http://blog.rmendes.net/index.php
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aaronpk thanks!
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Acidnerd do i have to register to my own site ? lol
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Acidnerd or is there some admin backend to Known ?
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tantek Acidnerd: nice!
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tantek why the "blog." subdomain?
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tantek why not just rmendes.net?
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Acidnerd because i want to host multiple things there
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bret what would be more valuable, a bridgy meetup.com bridge to RSVPs backfeed to indievents or indie rsvp support in calagator?
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tantek sure - yet it makes sense to have *something* at the top of rmendes.net
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tantek no need to overoptimize for organization up front
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Acidnerd tantek, there will be something there difinitely
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Acidnerd right now i'm just noticing all my urls are broken, so it means my htaccess is either now doing it's job or
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aaronpk bret: getting calagator to accept indie RSVPs would be awesome, and also is probably actually achievable
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tantek aaronpk - true!
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Acidnerd how does one "administer" Known ?
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aaronpk calagator used to be able to show RSVPs from plancast, but I don't think it has an RSVP system of its own
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aaronpk doesn't sound unreasonable, and i'm pretty sure they want to add that at some point
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tantek aaronpk - interesting - perhaps then it can similarly show RSVPs from any indieevent by reading the h-event
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rhiaro I'm pestering the guy who runs the Scotland-centric equivalent of calagator (opentechcalendar) to support indie rsvp
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tantek and reading the p-attendee fields
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Loqi rhiaro: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 2 hours, 39 minutes ago: processing webmentions properly again on my end
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tantek and nested objects
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rhiaro I'm very excited for this because most of what I attend goes is on it
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tantek rhiaro++ very cool!
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aaronpk an easy way to do that is using webmention.io to actually collect the RSVPs, then load them via javascript the way it did from plancast
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Loqi rhiaro has 6 karma
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rhiaro We might get together this month to hack on it
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tantek "Facebook is something we all got in middle school because it was cool but now is seen as an awkward family dinner party we can't really leave." https://medium.com/backchannel/a-teenagers-view-on-social-media-1df945c09ac6
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ben_thatmustbeme hah
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tantek also the observations about FB Groups & Messaging are spot on
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Acidnerd can someone give me 5 min ? i'm stuck in front of my new Known (url broken, but already tried 2 diff .htaccess, none is working) and i'm not sure how i "admin" this thing :)
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rhiaro Hey tantek, I set up a Known instance for the kids programming club (I think I mentioned this to you) because a bunch them object to facebook
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tantek coincidentally my top two personal use-cases.
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tantek rhiaro: even better!
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tantek Acidnerd - hmm - did you try /Known?
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Acidnerd Not Found
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Acidnerd The requested URL /known was not found on this server.
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tantek Acidnerd: sorry - indiewebcamp.com/Known :)
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Acidnerd there is no Known or known sub dir over there
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tantek more gems: "To be honest, a lot of us simply do not understand the point of Twitter. There is always a core group at every school that uses it very religiously to tweet and another group that uses it to simply watch or retweet, but besides that many don't use it."
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Acidnerd tantek, this http://indiewebcamp.com/Known have my answer but not adapted to CentOS7
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ben_thatmustbeme Acidnerd: http://blog.rmendes.net/index.php/begin
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ben_thatmustbeme that?
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Acidnerd so i'm not sure how to proceed, i need to AllowOverride All to my Known instance
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tantek shudders at the index.php URL
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aaronpk tantek: i think that'sj ust until it can write the .htaccess file
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aaronpk ben did a fantastic job of making it drop in an work on a server until you actually go and configure it
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tantek sound like some good FAQs to be added to http://indiewebcamp.com/Known#FAQ
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tantek that is pretty darn hard true
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aaronpk like rather than crashing and showing (or not showing) system errors when php plugins are missing, it runs a minimal checker that determins if all the dependencies are present
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Acidnerd i'm willing to trace back my experience and add it to the wiki, but first i need to succeed
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Acidnerd it seems my /var/www/blog.rmendes.net.conf is not allowed to rewrite urls
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Acidnerd from the wiki : If you manually visit /index.php/begin instead and see a landing page, it means that htaccess is not being allowed to rewrite URLs.
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ben_thatmustbeme ahh... hmm, so mod_rewrite isn't working
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kylewm ben_thatmustbeme, I did see your photo upload update. very excited to try it out tonight!
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aaronpk are you on nginx?
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aaronpk cause you have to do the special nginx thing for that to work, since nginx doesn't do .htaccess
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Acidnerd nope i stayed on apache
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aaronpk ah ok
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Acidnerd i read the post, it seemed doable, but nginx is new to me
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kylewm Acidnerd, did you see this http://indiewebcamp.com/Known#Fix_404_Not_Found_on_.2Fbegin
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Acidnerd always delaying the moment to actually mess with it
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Acidnerd yes kylewm
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Acidnerd but i have hard time to adapt this to centOS7
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Acidnerd i guess instead of apache2/apache.conf from ubuntu i have to do the same at sudo nano /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf ?
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Acidnerd Taddaaaaaa : http://blog.rmendes.net/session/login
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Acidnerd i love it! haha combine irc when you loose focus, with search on google, and there is probably a solution to all mankind problems out there
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snarfed Acidnerd++ congrats!
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Loqi snarfed: aaronpk left you a message 2 hours, 40 minutes ago: got a weird facebook URL from bridgy: https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/facebook/11500459/1566004873636047/1566004873636047_1566006050302596 It's either a comment or a like on a facebook event
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Loqi Acidnerd has 2 karma
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Acidnerd :))
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snarfed aaronpk: thanks! yup, could be. i think i implemented that, or part of it, in https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/49
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snarfed Acidnerd: now to set up http://blog.rmendes.net/
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Acidnerd i think i have to change DirectoryIndex to index.php right ? by default it's on index.html
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aaronpk yes definiteily. although usually installing php adds that to the config file
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snarfed !tell benwerd happy birthday!
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Acidnerd i think it's because of virtualenv, there is a line there specifying .html and since there is a default html there it simply obey
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk kylewm: getting a 500 error from your image proxy trying to show my url
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aaronpk check out https://kylewm.com/2015/01/microformats-dev-meetup-2015-01-20
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snarfed aaronpk: filed, https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/337
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aaronpk snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 72 karma
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kylewm aaronpk: yeah, I cannot download images from your site with python 2
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kylewm the SNI thing
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kylewm I guess
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Loqi [mention] Rick Mendes commented 'This wiki is a gem to explore #indieweb possibilities but i also suggest to check-in on the IRC channel where a team of amazing tech peeps a...' on a post http://indiewebcamp.com/Known (http://blog.rmendes.net/2015/this-wiki-is-a-gem-to-explore-indieweb-possibilities-but)
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aaronpk oh right
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Acidnerd seriously ? haha this is fast
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Acidnerd this is really fast..ok i'm jumping in the air !!
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Acidnerd done http://blog.rmendes.net/ !
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aaronpk nice!
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bret large online storage pricing https://gist.github.com/substack/8dbdb1bac16c303f0d8e
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rascul kylewm https://stackoverflow.com/a/18579484
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Acidnerd took me a few hours, but hey i'm experienced newbie :p
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tantek Acidnerd great that you got it working!!!
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tantek now yes please add what you needed to know to the FAQ
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aaronpk snarfed: your "like" urls are hilarious
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Acidnerd i will register there, now that i have a site :)
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tantek YES. :D
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aaronpk oh hey that wasn't a like, that was a comment!
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Acidnerd while login to the wiki : No rel="me" links were found on your site!
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aaronpk Acidnerd: you have to add some profile URLs first
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Acidnerd ahh ok, that's the next step before login
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snarfed aaronpk: heh yes. yeah i own my comments/likes/reposts/etc, but mostly just for me. i clearly don't try hard to present them nicely to anyone else :P
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tantek Acidnerd: http://indiewebcamp.com/How_to_set_up_web_sign-in_on_your_own_domain
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bear Acidnerd++
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Loqi Acidnerd has 3 karma
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aaronpk perhaps we need a new section on that page for Known? because it's just a matter of configuring hte profile URLs in your user account
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Acidnerd is there a place to do 1. Link to your various social profiles on your home page ?
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aaronpk Acidnerd: click "profile" at the top then edit
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Acidnerd i mean, shall i add this to the template or is there a better solution?
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Acidnerd ahhh, so simple, of course :)
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aaronpk hey where did this come from! http://withknown.superfeedr.com/
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Acidnerd is this one way to use pubsubhub with known? so that content get pushed faster where it needs to go ?
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aaronpk that was turned on by default on my known instance
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Acidnerd same here
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aaronpk is suspecting a number of readers to show up this year
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aaronpk this should be exciting
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tantek aaronpk agreed. and then everything tips.
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tantek *built-in* readers at that
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tantek none of this - go someplace to read vs. write nonsense old model crap
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tantek ;)
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aaronpk isn't necessarily sold on the built-in reader concept
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aaronpk but readers need to also be writers
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snarfed aaronpk++ me neither
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Loqi aaronpk has 652 karma
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snarfed but we can have both models
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aaronpk indeed
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kylewm aaronpk, where did you find that superfeedr hub?
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aaronpk "view source" on my known site
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tantek of course both models can co-exist. it's just that it's not interesting.
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aaronpk i beg to differ :)
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kylewm that is very exciting
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@RikMende I have a new website and it's powered by the future of the #internet http://blog.rmendes.net/ #indieweb thanks to @withknown @t & all the crew (twitter.com/_/status/552957737102229505)
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aaronpk but what's great is not only are both models acceptable, they will both work together
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tantek when your Known let's you follow and post as seamlessly as Twitter, Tumblr, FB, then things will tip
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@benwerd RT @RikMende: I have a new website and it's powered by the future of the #internet http://blog.rmendes.net/ #indieweb thanks to @withknown @t… (twitter.com/_/status/552957825337421824)
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Acidnerd geeez, this is the fastest bot i ever saw
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snarfed on an unrelated note…
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Acidnerd how come this thing be so quick ?
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tantek Loqi, how fast are you?
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Loqi who, me?
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aaronpk what is realtime?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "realtime" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=realtime
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snarfed aaronpk++ for native indie @-mentions, e.g. https://aaronparecki.com/replies/2015/01/07/3/
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tantek gives Loqi a question
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Acidnerd geeez
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Loqi eyes the question
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Acidnerd litterally i had the time to look at the screen just after the tweet, and it's already there..
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Acidnerd my question is what make this bot realtime ?
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aaronpk webmentions and the twitter streaming api
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Acidnerd been playing with bots and the more feeds i added, the more time it needed to crawl it all and get back to the 1 feed
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Acidnerd with 700 feeds, the bot was taking 15 min to crawl the pack
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aaronpk crawling is necessary if the publishers don't support some sort of realtime mechanism
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Acidnerd this one here does not seem to suffer this problem
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Acidnerd so that's what superfeedr does ?
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aaronpk this bot isn't hooked into superfeedr yet, it's just handling webmentions
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Acidnerd what is the realtime mechanism of the indie web ?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "realtime mechanism of the indie web " yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=realtime+mechanism+of+the+indie+web+
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aaronparecki.com created /realtime_mechanism_of_the_indie_web (+23) "r" (view diff)
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aaronpk what is the realtime mechanism of the indie web?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/realtime_mechanism_of_the_indie_web
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aaronparecki.com edited /realtime_mechanism_of_the_indie_web (+0) "r" (view diff)
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aaronpk dangit
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aaronpk what is the realtime mechanism of the indie web?
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Loqi Webmention is a simple way to notify any URL when you link to it on your site https://indiewebcamp.com/realtime_mechanism_of_the_indie_web
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Acidnerd this is freaking amazing
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aaronpk i like to think so too :)
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Acidnerd i want to think later on, how can this be used for alerts and real time info sharing
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kylewm rascul, thanks for the tip about SNI... i tried installing "Successfully installed ndg-httpsclient PyOpenSSL cryptography six cffi enum34 pyasn1 pycparser
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kylewm "
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Acidnerd take a look at @streamerbot or @citizenstreams
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Acidnerd we use complex systems to "watch" streamers and then tweet when they go live
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Acidnerd but this could be all different, and way faster
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Acidnerd one thing at a time...first things first !!
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tantek yeah! get your login working! :)
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kylewm rascul, still getting this error though https://gist.github.com/kylewm/bba65e07fd1ee35fcfe7 any ideas?
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Acidnerd i'm reading this wiki, it's huge
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GWG You know, I don't have indieauth set up on my site
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aaronpk GWG: what do you mean, I've seen you log in to the wiki before
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tantek indeed
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rascul kylewm i dunno, once i installed them packages it worked fine here
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rascul maybe requests needs to be updated?
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rascul i've got requests==2.5.0
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kylewm it doesn't look like this program is using requests at all... maybe that's the problem
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rascul oh yeah probably heh
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GWG Aaronpk, I don't have it set up to let me log into my admin
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aaronpk oh gotcha
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GWG It seems too dangerous
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aaronpk dangerous how?
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GWG Indieauth uses my site to authenticate me
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aaronpk why is that bad? I do that
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GWG I felt that I shouldn't be identifying myself to it as it
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GWG I use 2fa instead
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aaronpk what do you use for 2fa?
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GWG TOTP
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aaronpk what's the other factor?
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GWG Strong password
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aaronpk could always do indieauth + your totp
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GWG Stored in a vault with a different 2fa
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GWG I wanted to try client side certificates someday
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GWG Aaronpk, I like indieauth for things not under ny control
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aaronpk client certs are neat. i want to try that too.
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GWG I've been meaning to review Wordpress plugins for it
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GWG Hi, pwcc
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GWG Aaronpk, I know there is an indieauth issue for it
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pwcc GWG Good morning. I've be lurking in the logs
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GWG For?
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pwcc 2FA for WP always worries me 'cause it's easy to delete the plugin. I'd like a way to get around that...
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pwcc GWG: for the live updating and prettier layout. :)
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GWG Pwcc, I've been meaning to ask you something
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pwcc GWG: Fire away.
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GWG Would you be willing to give me feedback on a project?
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kylewm woot, fixed the issue with your avatar not loading, aaronpk. thanks for supplying the motivation
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Loqi yay!
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aaronpk yay
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Loqi :D
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pwcc Of course.
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GWG pwcc:https://github.com/dshanske/mf2_s
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kylewm snarfed, any idea why I am slow polling on Bridgy? says 2 hours since last pollhttps://www.brid.gy/facebook/kyle.mahan
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GWG It's my attempt at a starter theme for Indieweb Wordpress.
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pwcc GWG: nice. I'll take a look over the w/e
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GWG pwcc: I will probably have more commits by then
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snarfed kylewm: probably since it's been over a week since the last wm
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snarfed "slow webmentions" could be the new thing
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snarfed hand crafted http requests lovingly wafted over artisinal http connections
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tantek oh that's what I've been doing this whole time
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tantek artisinal webmentions
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GWG snarfed: I am raising a brow
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kylewm ah ha, i'm sure that's it, thanks
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GWG pwcc: I am also borrowing from SemPress a bit.
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pwcc GWG: Feel free to add me to skype too firstname dot surname dot aus
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pwcc GWG: My name is Peter Wilson
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GWG pwcc: I am only on sporadically, will make a note
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GWG On Skype
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GWG When people say things like, artisanal webmentions, I feel like Indiewebcamp nerfs a t-shirt shop
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pwcc Ack.
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pwcc Gonna have to add µF2 to http://styleguide.peterwilson.cc/?p=templates-article -- my goals have changed since I started :)
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GWG Needs, not nerfs
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pwcc Also thinking of syndicating to a tumblr. Noticed it's possible to add canonical URLs pointing to an indieweb site
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GWG I could make a killing with "What's your URL?" t-shirts
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blog.rmendes.net edited /IRC_People (+52) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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blog.rmendes.net edited /IRC_People (+0) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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pwcc What is an indieshirt
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "indieshirt" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=indieshirt
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kylewm GWG, I liked "nerfs" better. aren't there lots of sites where you can submit a design and they print it if some nominal number of people orders?
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Acidnerd tantek, aaronpk can you define better this line ? Create a directory where file uploads will be stored. This must be outside of your document root.
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GWG kylewm: Autocomplete
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Acidnerd i have to put this outside of /var/www/
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Acidnerd so that known can manage uploaded files
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GWG kylewm: I am not the person to design a shirt
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kylewm GWG: I'd like one with just http://indiewebcamp.com/File:indiewebcamp_logo_1600px.png on it
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kylewm maybe "Handcrafted artisanal webmentions since 2011" on the back
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Acidnerd my current known is here : /var/www/blog.rmendes.net/public_html - so where shoul i create the upload file ?
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Acidnerd upload folder sorry
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Acidnerd i don't understand why the data folder should be outside the document root
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Acidnerd with known
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tantek one week from the first HWC meetup of the year!
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kylewm Acidnerd: I think it's just a defensive best-practices type security thing. in case there is a bug that lets the user upload a file like "../../config.ini" or something
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tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-14-homebrew-website-club
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Acidnerd kylewm, ok
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Acidnerd but where should i put it then ?
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Acidnerd in my home dir ? like /home/rick/known/data ?
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tantek.com edited /events/2015-01-14-homebrew-website-club (+8) "RSVP" (view diff)
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Acidnerd or can i use /var/www/blog.rmendes.net/data
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Acidnerd so the files would sit on the same "root" then all the other known files
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Acidnerd or is that not a good idea ?
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kylewm Acidnerd: I would do the latter (/var/www/blog.rmendes.net/data). someone with more sysadmin experience please correct me if i'm wrong
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tantek HWC SF venue confirmed
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tantek.com edited /events/2015-01-14-homebrew-website-club (-3) "SF location confirmed @MozSF" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2015-01-14-homebrew-website-club (-4) "-TBD SF" (view diff)
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tantek kylewm: you coming next week to HWC?
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kylewm tantek, I cannot make it next week :(
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bret i am also out of town next week, Hawaii!
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pwcc jealous, would like to come along to HBC