#indiewebcamp 2015-01-09

2015-01-09 UTC
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Loqi [bridgy] Steve Adams replied '@kevinmarks thanks.' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/feed#Criticism (https://twitter.com/sadams_s/status/553337180291350528)
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snarfed KevinMarks: eh i wouldn't blame you. it would still happen if you owned and POSSEd your notes but didn't include u-syndication links
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tantek.com edited /timeline (+117) "/* 2010 */ IndieWebCamp name & event proposed" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /timeline (+271) "/* 2010 */ 2010-06-06 private email use of "indie web" - earliest citable/verifiable intentional reference I can find so far" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /timeline (+13) "/* 2011 */ note/link founders" (view diff)
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tantek benwerd: are you around for next week's HWC? Can you post an indie event and POSSE FB copy? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-14-homebrew-website-club
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tantek aaronpk: are you able to host next week's HWC? Can you post an indie event and POSSE FB copy? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-14-homebrew-website-club
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tantek (in Portland)
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Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2015/homebrew-website-club-january-14-2015 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-14-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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aaronpk tantek: actually I can't do it next week, we have a crazy week of esri visitors at the office
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tantek !tell dietrich can you host next week's HWC @MozPDX? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-14-homebrew-website-club maybe bret can help out too.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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benwerd tantek: done
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 2 days, 2 hours ago: confirmed by the date of the Elgg patches I made (and now captured on the wiki page). This was the meetup: http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2012-07-24-sf-meetup#Notes
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bret tantek: im out of town unfortunately
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Loqi benwerd: snarfed left you a message 1 day, 2 hours ago: happy birthday!
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bret hawaii!
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benwerd snarfed: thank you!
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bret maybe I'll have to to do a remote HWC:hawaii edition lol
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bret time*
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tantek RSVP coming up
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aaronpk we are hosting a happy hour at our office too http://anth.ro/a4ZDF
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bret aww darn gonna miss
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GWG bret: Don't feel bad. I missed all of them
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GWG I'll just sit here and watch aaronpk's watch log his alcohol intake to his website
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aaronpk lolol
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bret aww GWG
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GWG No aww...
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bret you could go to a cafe and make a posting... if nobody shows up, you get an hour to work and chill out
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GWG I don't drink anyway
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GWG bret: Until next month, I'm working till 10
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bret posting = announcement
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GWG Filling in for a coworker who went to Pakistan
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bret no excuses ;)
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GWG bret: I have a github account that proves I've been buy
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GWG busy
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GWG https://github.com/dshanske/mf2_s/commits/master
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bret nice!
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bret GWG++
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Loqi GWG has 44 karma
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GWG bret: The hard part is not writing features into this.
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bret i know, I was working on a starter template the other month https://github.com/bcomnes/base
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GWG bret: Any advice? Different platform, but same concept.
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GWG I change so much, I figured it was a good idea to build a good base.
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bret minimise complexity wherever you can
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bret that was my goal at least
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bret kind of limited when starting with all of the inherent complexity of jekyll though
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GWG I'm adding and minimizing complexity
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GWG So, where I am adding options, I'm adding comments to remove them, or leaving them commented out to be enabled as needed
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tantek once again into the clustered likes design fray
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GWG tantek: I have faith you will emerge on the other side. Perhaps a little older...a little wiser..
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tantek GWG, indeed, I'm discerning details of existing implementations even more closely.
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tantek.com edited /like (+424) "/* inline hypertext design */ noting more clues from FB styling we can re-use" (view diff)
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tantek looks like going to have to use the value class pattern for date at time
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tantek to avoid violating DRY
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tantek.com edited /like (+491) "/* Brainstorming */ prefix times with "at ", use dt value class pattern as needed to avoid/reduce DRY violations" (view diff)
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tantek I'm wondering if "21:00 on 2014-12-27" is more or less (or same) readable than "2014-12-27 at 21:00".
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tantek especially in the context of a bunch of such entries in a row - stacked on top of each other
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tantek from the same day - where the time would be different but not the date
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GWG How do you feel about 27DEC14 ?
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GWG I use that one sometimes
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tantek it looks like it's for machines or UK government. no spaces between components, ALLCAPS MONTH, abbreviated month at that.
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@Uebyn RT @kevinmarks: “Faceboo… views links to outside pages as a problem to be solved” http://www.theawl.com/2015/01/everything-ends #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/553369203378372609)
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tantek also 2 digit year problem
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tantek is that 2027 December 14th?
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snarfed tantek: you could collapse the date when it doesn't change
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tantek indeed I've seen some blog designs that do that - where the date almost acts like a header for the day
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tantek I think one of my old designs used to do that
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GWG Doesn't someone have that now who is a regular here?
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tantek it doesn't lend itself well to the "small grey text" date/time designs that are so popular now
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tantek too hard to connect a de-emphasized (style-wise) date somewhere else with the time
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tantek well, prefixing the time with "at" solves the "looks like a duration" problem, however now introduces a new problem
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tantek which is it looks more like the time of the thing liked, rather than the time it *was* liked
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tantek see the collection of likes at the bottom of my home stream now: http://tantek.com/
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colintedford tantek: How big a time span do these collections of likes cover? Up to a day?
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Loqi colintedford: tantek left you a message 2 hours, 11 minutes ago: yes ellipsis is irrelevant there. prefix of plaintext versions with ws normalization and dropping ellipsis is the key.
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colintedford Thanks! ^
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tantek the clusters of likes are all sequentially posted on the same day
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colintedford In that case I think having the time first works better in that stack view because the rest of the timestamp isn't changing.
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colintedford In the list view on the homepage maybe making the times small & gray would help make their function clearer since they would match he date at the bottom of the post.
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colintedford Like it might be clearer that they
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colintedford 're the same type of thing.
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tantek the clusters of likes *only* have the time for each like, and the date once at the bottom
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tantek see the like cluster at the bottom of the stream at tantek.com
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tantek yes - was already considering the small & grey for the times inline - and working on that now
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tantek the parentheses then look odd so I may drop them or span display none them for the styled version (but kept in the plain text content)
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colintedford Yes, by "that stack view" I meant http://tantek.com/2015/002/f and "in the list view" referred to the cluster at the bottom of the stream.
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tantek the date or time first question only applies to when they're stacked as fully separate entries in a list, e.g. https://indiewebcamp.com/like#inline_hypertext_design
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tantek yes http://tantek.com/2015/002/f needs a lot more work
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tantek focusing on the home page view right now
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tantek but yes - I agree that "having the time first works better in that stack view because the rest of the timestamp isn't changing."
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tantek updating /like accordingly
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colintedford I think parentheses (same small size as time but not gray) would be good inline to help separate it from the "content", but maybe I'd think differently if I saw it.
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tantek hmm - interesting thought
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colintedford or maybe "at 21:00" with no parentheses and the "at" part of the link? I'm sure you'll figure something out :)
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colintedford ^maybe more flow than parentheses but either sounds good to me.
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GWG tantek: I like simplicity, but looking at the list of likes makes my eyes defocus.
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colintedford If the "time first" question was re: your homepage stream I like date first, but time first isn't really a hardship.
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colintedford If you post very frequently time first might make more sense (& is the status quo anyway :).
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tantek for the home page especially, since posts are expected to be "recent", the time of post is likely more relevant than the date, thus should go first
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tantek colintedford: yes I'm experimenting with/without parens. may take some longer term experiments to see how it "feels"
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tantek GWG do you mean the stacked list or the inline list?
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GWG tantek: What is your thought on time parameters like... 1 hour ago....? I forget the term for it?
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tantek relative times?
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GWG The stacked list.
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tantek what are relative times
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "relative times" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=relative+times
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GWG Thank you, that was bothering me.
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tantek GWG yes the stacked list needs a lot more design work
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tantek I'm focused on the home page in stream design right now
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tantek.com edited /like (+261) "/* Brainstorming */ use time on date instead of date at time" (view diff)
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colintedford I usually care about the date of posts more than time & like the logical order of date first, but it's a personal preference & doesn't much matter. Also I might feel differently if I did more real-time Twitter-y stuff.
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snarfed i kind of like the pattern of rendering relative times and showing absolute timestamp in popup when you hover
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tantek snarfed - I like that pattern in JS-only :)
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snarfed tantek: huh, i don't follow. seems unrelated to js?
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tantek that is, relative datetimes via JS enhancement, absolute in the content
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snarfed ah. the popups can come from pure html, e.g. <span title=…>
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tantek snarfed, because you want the relative time to be "correct" when you go back to the window a minute or hour later ;)
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snarfed ah good point
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tantek so a little settimeout action to update the relative times
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tantek it's subtle, and I'm not sure of anyone that does it that way
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tantek but if you're going to do relative datetimes, that's how you should do it
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tantek until we have some CSS display feature for relative times ;)
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prtksxna I usually use moment.js for this, its reliable and has very good i18n support
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tantek ok I think I like the no-parens option. the visual cues of size and grayness are enough to subtly connect the times to the dates and permalink meaning
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tantek updated: tantek.com
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tantek yes I feel that looks pretty clean, and every use of size/color communicates some specific meaning (not just artsy fluff)
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tantek thoughts? opinions? counter-thoughts?
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colintedford Definitely an improvement.
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tantek.com edited /like (+146) "/* Brainstorming */ make time, date, datetime stamps smaller, and drop their parens. cleaner." (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (-227) "/* improve like posts */ done: fix presentation of in-stream like-times to also be small and grey, maybe inline without parentheses, to avoid the "looks like a duration of the thing before it" effect" (view diff)
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colintedford I'd maybe suggest past tense ("liked") in this view.
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GWG Hmm...
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GWG Does a like need e-content?
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tantek colintedford: indeed, "likes" vs. "liked" was a big design discussion
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tantek GWG - mine have no e-content or content property at all for that matter
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colintedford Would also maybe go ahead & add a subject ("I liked").
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tantek GWG, I'm not sure that's the right answer yet
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KartikPrabhu does anyone know how form-encoded datetimes look on the server side? that is how would my micropub enpoint receive a datetime?
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tantek hence I asked consuming h-entry readers what they do
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tantek colintedford: I prefer omitting the prose subject "I" as in the permalink view - the icon/avatar serves that role
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tantek same with my RSVPs "going to ..."
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colintedford The icon/avatar at the top of the page? I don't see one on the post.
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tantek on the permalink pages
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tantek e.g. http://tantek.dev/2015/008/t1/homebrew-website-club-mozsf
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tantek or http://tantek.dev/2015/002/f13
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tantek whether you read it as "tantek.com … likes" or "(face) likes" - it makes sense
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colintedford Ah, yeah, I see.
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colintedford Doesn't come across so much in the home stream.
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GWG tantek: If they had that, wouldn't that better be a p-summary?
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (-93) "/* improve like posts */ done: increase # of things in my home stream (from 20 to 32) since likes are clustered! Yay for small multiples." (view diff)
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tantek GWG - not sure. why use p-summary without an e-content or p-content?
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tantek if the p-summary is really all there is, then you should be using p-content
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tantek now for even more clustering design thinking, sequential liking of the same *person* (or org/source's) posts
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tantek e.g. if I like three of @kevinmarks's tweets in a row, do I really need to say "likes @kevinmarks tweet, @kevinmarks tweet, and @kevinmarks tweet"?
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tantek or is there some better way
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tantek e.g. maybe something like "likes three of @kevinmarks's tweets (at 18:48, 18:49, and 18:50)"
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tantek instead of "likes @kevinmarks tweet at 18:48, @kevinmarks tweet at 18:49, and @kevinmarks tweet at 18:50"
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colintedford I think some kind of clustering would be good. "(at 18:48, 18:49, and 18:50)" means you have to click through to the like before you can click on what was liked, though.
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tantek (I got the times backwards, but same idea)
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tantek colintedford: right - trying to figure out how to give *some* sort of click target for the thing that was liked
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tantek just thinking out loud here in terms of text design
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colintedford A tiny excerpt might be (as a reader, maybe no as an implementer).
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tantek I might even use an iconic representation
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tantek per the type of the thing likd
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tantek s/likd/liked
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Loqi tantek meant to say: per the type of the thing liked
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colintedford "@kevinmarks tweets 'Hey that...' at 18:00, 'Did you ...' at 18:07"
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colintedford Oh yeah, that sounds simpler.
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tantek I'm worried about the excerpts looking nonsensical - kind of like pingbacks do :/
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tantek is tempted to use emoji
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tantek e.g. http://indiewebcamp.com/%F0%9F%93%9D
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colintedford I think of like how some poems are referred to by their first line
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colintedford Pingback grabs random junk from the middle.
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colintedford But I can still understand not wanted to go that way.
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tantek colintedford - do you have citations for "how some poems are referred to by their first line" - I've been totally looking for that kind of prior art!
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colintedford (Or I also think of it as shorthand for how you might say "The paragraph starting at...")
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colintedford No, I'll look for something.
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tantek (I mean I believe you, it makes sense)
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colintedford "Like most untitled poems, it's usually referred to by its first line in quotation marks" http://www.shmoop.com/do-not-go-gentle-into-that-good-night/title.html
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colintedford "One of Housman's most familiar poems, it is untitled but often anthologised under a title taken from its first line." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_I_Was_One-and-Twenty
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tantek colintedford++ awesome
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Loqi colintedford has 3 karma
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colintedford There must be better sources but I'm not much into poetry.
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colintedford :)
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tantek going to have to think some more about how to cluster likes of stuff from the same person while still having something clickable for the stuff itself.
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colintedford Sparkly animated cartoon numbers, MySpace-style :D
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tantek thinking text first … the most minimal / simple / dumb thing would be numbered tweets
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colintedford Yeah, that'd be a good start.
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tantek e.g. "likes 3 of @KevinMarks's tweets (tweet 1 at 19:02, tweet 2 at 19:01, and tweet 3 at 19:00)"
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colintedford & if you make them words rather than numerals it'll read well as a sentence and be more clickable.
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tantek and then use "note" or "post" or "photo" for other types
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tantek instead of "tweet"
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colintedford Oh, that works too.
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tantek could be JS-enhanced with tooltip text of the entire tweet
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tantek when you hover over "tweet 1", "tweet 2" etc.
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colintedford Actually "tweet 1" is def. better now that I think my suggestion through further.
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tantek perhaps an entire tweetcard pop-up with webaction buttons on it
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colintedford Ooh la la!
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tantek similarly with photos, a photocard pop-up showing you a thumbnail of the photo
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tantek and for non-hover UIs, perhaps a way to expand any such clustering inline
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tantek but that's deep diving a bit prematurely on enhanced UX beyond text
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tantek the other interesting case is same person, mixed post types
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tantek especially combined with some of the same post type!
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tantek e.g.
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tantek right now on my home page I have:
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tantek likes NovemberProjectSF’s photo at 00:54, NovemberProjectSF’s photo at 00:53, NovemberProjectSF’s photo at 00:52, NovemberProjectSF’s photo at 00:52, NovemberProjectSF’s photo at 00:50, NovemberProjectSF’s photo at 00:49, NovemberProjectSF’s photo at 00:49, NovemberProjectSF's photo album “NPSF: Our Year in Photos” at 00:47, NovemberProjectSF’s post at 00:46, and NovemberProjectSF’s photo at 00:45.
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tantek I could see reclustering that as:
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tantek likes 7 of NovemberProjectSF’s photos (photo 1 at 00:54, photo 2 at 00:53, photo 3 at 00:52, photo 4 at 00:52, photo 5 at 00:50, photo 6 at 00:49, photo 7 at 00:49), photo album “NPSF: Our Year in Photos” at 00:47, post at 00:46, and photo at 00:45.
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colintedford Yes.
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@analogophile POSSEing my tweets (hopefully). #indieweb Also on: (twitter.com/_/status/553388542031036418)
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tantek GWG ^^^ new WordPress person! https://aaronalexander.me/
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GWG tantek: Huzzah
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tantek go help them with their permashortlinks or whatever they're trying to do with "Also on: " (blank)
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tantek and welcome them too :)
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colintedford Ooh, actually that poetry-first line thing kinda validates how I've been thinking of naming my untitled posts (text up to first "pausing" punctuation e.g. , . ; : ! ?)
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@analogophile POSSEing my tweets (hopefully). #indieweb Also on: (twitter.com/_/status/553390687467880448)
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colintedford Since line breaks generally denote a similar pause in poetry.
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tantek indeed
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@analogophile POSSEing my tweets (hopefully). #indieweb Also on: (twitter.com/_/status/553392481195556864)
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GWG Wondering if I caused the blank Also on
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@analogophile POSSEing my tweets (hopefully). #indieweb Also on: (twitter.com/_/status/553399165058056193)
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@emilyeifler The once and future indie web and the effect of the Mega Silos on the web. (that I am posting this on twitter is sad) http://www.webdirections.org/resources/tantek-celik-future-indieweb/ (twitter.com/_/status/553400326921789440)
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@analogophile POSSEing my tweets (hopefully). #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/553400719911706624)
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@dissolve333 Lots of new features rolling out for MobilePub #indieweb(btmb.me s/6C) (twitter.com/_/status/553403318026780672)
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prtksxna GWG: Around? I am having some trouble setting up your plugin.
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prtksxna GWG: The Kind box is empty. I filled up the Context fields but I get this - http://pastie.org/pastes/9821429/text - when previewing my post. I am running 4.1
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GWG I'm around.
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GWG Hmm...did I make a typo in the last test version?
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GWG Let me have a look.
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GWG I did do a bugfix in that function
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GWG Give me five minutes to bring up my test instance
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prtksxna Sure, thanks GWG
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GWG Did you select a Post Kind?
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prtksxna GWG: The Kind box was empty
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prtksxna GWG: https://github.com/dshanske/indieweb-post-kinds/pull/1
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KevinMarks !tell KartikPrabhu fixed it - http://www.unmung.com/feed?feed=http%3A%2F%2Fexport.arxiv.org%2Frss%2Fgr-qc
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KevinMarks maybe I should add some tests
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prtksxna GWG: It just has a clear button
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GWG prtksxna: I used someone else's code for the radio buttons. I planned on removing it.
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prtksxna GWG: Did I miss an installation step? I just cloned it and activated it.
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prtksxna GWG: Ah, then I must be missing some dependencies?
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GWG I'm trying to reproduce on my end
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prtksxna GWG: I don't see any composer files…
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GWG One secod
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prtksxna Sure
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GWG prtksxna: I never used it
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prtksxna The plugin? Or composer?
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks nice! :)
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: KevinMarks left you a message 3 minutes ago: fixed it - http://www.unmung.com/feed?feed=http%3A%2F%2Fexport.arxiv.org%2Frss%2Fgr-qc
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GWG Composer?
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GWG I know what it is.
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GWG prtksxna: I see the problem.
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KevinMarks not sure if an hcard with 3 links in parses right though...
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GWG prtksxna: It shouldn't accept a null. So rewriting the radio box would fix. But let me put in a temporary one.
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: yeah probably not. those need to be separate h-cards
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prtksxna GWG: Cool
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KartikPrabhu right now only the first one will be picked as u-url due to default parsing rules
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GWG prtksxna: But either way, something should be selected. There shouldn't be an option not to. That is the issue.
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KevinMarks_ Right, but I'd have to parse the html myself to do that I think
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prtksxna GWG: Hm, I see the Kind box, but it has no options, just a clear button…
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KevinMarks_ There aren't 3 author elements in the source
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prtksxna And there don't seem to be an JS errors anywhere either
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GWG Oh...you are saying it doesn't add options in for you?
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GWG That's different.
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks_ oh the Atom is bad by itself! don't bother arxiv is horrible at these things
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KevinMarks_ Unmung is becoming coding in template language
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GWG prtksxna: Load the settings page for me.
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prtksxna GWG: Ah, check both options?
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KevinMarks_ Should I make it e-author?
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GWG Just load the page.
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks_ maybe explicitly add u-url to each as a stop-gap measure?
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prtksxna GWG: And…?
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GWG And then look at a new post and tell me if the list is still blank
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prtksxna GWG: No…what sorcery was this :P
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GWG prtksxna: The entering of the terms is done at two points.
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GWG prtksxna: One is on activation, the other is on loading the settings page
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prtksxna I see
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GWG prtksxna: I added the plugin activation one later. I guess I didn't test it
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prtksxna GWG: Cool. Seems to be working now (no errors at least)
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prtksxna GWG: I'll make my theme play well with this now
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prtksxna GWG: Did you see the PR?
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GWG prtksxna: Hope you like it.
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GWG prtksxna: Saw it, yet to review.
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prtksxna GWG: (y)
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tantek.com edited /2015-01-01-commitments (+70) "xtof example note" (view diff)
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@danlyke @artlung I'm reading it, pondering how some of the notions there coincide with http://IndieWebCamp.com stuff, and other ideas... (twitter.com/_/status/553418370063011840)
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GWG prtksxna: Fixed the first time activation issue
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prtksxna (y)
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prtksxna GWG: I'll pull it once you have the fix up…
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GWG There you are
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GWG prtksxna: The fix was a missing line
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prtksxna GWG: \o/
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GWG I attempted to add terms to a taxonomy that hadn't yet been activated in the sequence of events.
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prtksxna GWG: Tag?
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GWG prtksxna: If you are planning to put it into your theme, all you need to do is the following code: if(function_exists('response_display') { response_display(); }
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GWG prtksxna: What about it?
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prtksxna GWG: That is a Tag?
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prtksxna GWG: If you are planning to put it into your theme <-- Got it
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prtksxna GWG: What is a Tag?
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prtksxna http://indiewebcamp.com/tag I see
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GWG prtksxna: I think I added that the night tantek was talking about them. I don't think I've tagged yet
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prtksxna GWG: I see
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prtksxna GWG: Did you notice that the Android Wordpress app already has a location tag option
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prtksxna GWG: I wonder where that is coming from
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GWG You mean, to add location to a post?
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GWG I know what it does.
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GWG http://codex.wordpress.org/Geodata
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prtksxna Ooh. I didn't know about this. Is this how your plugin was storing data too?
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GWG prtksxna: Yes. I never finished the plugin though.
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GWG My plan was to use and extend the existing ones.
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GWG I used the same 4 variables, plus
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prtksxna Nice, I wonder if the ACF maps field does the same, though I doubt it does.
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GWG I added a fifth field...venue.
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GWG The name of the location
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GWG prtksxna: That I'm not sure of, but I may return to work on the display aspect of it
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GWG prtksxna: As with all of my projects...issues, pull requests, and feature requests welcome
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tantek.com edited /2015-01-01-commitments (+57) "xtof finished ship goal - posting notes" (view diff)
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prtksxna GWG: :)
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prtksxna GWG: The display part shouldn't be too hard https://github.com/prtksxna/feedme/blob/master/content-checkin.php https://github.com/prtksxna/feedme/blob/master/mapper.js
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prtksxna GWG: I already do it in my theme ^
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prtksxna GWG: I can help with mostly front-end stuff, I am not a WP dev
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GWG prtksxna: I just never decided which reverse geolocation service I wanted to use, or if I wanted to have more than one. So I backburned it.
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prtksxna GWG: Its best to make the user point the location out on a map. Reverse gelocation encoding isn't too reliable in my experience
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GWG The function I wrote uses HTML5 geolocation to get the coordinates. Need to rewrite that
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prtksxna GWG: Ah, so no late check-ins then…
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GWG prtksxna: Since the WordPress app could add location if you create a post there...I figured...
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GWG If you look though, haven't touched it in 6 months
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prtksxna GWG: I'll probably take a deeper look at the post-kinds plugin first and see if it'll fit my needs
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prtksxna Thanks for everything today GWG, I've got to run now, have a good weekend o/
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GWG prtksxna: Keep me posted on what you think
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tantek.com edited /2015-01-01-commitments (+23) "cite Marcus original post instead of tweet" (view diff)
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bupkes hey
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GWG Hi
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tantek.com edited /site-deaths (+514) "tvtag - first site death of 2015" (view diff)
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tantek also I think kylewm and I have gone through all the 2015-01-01 commitments and have updated statuses
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tantek anybody else got anything to add to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015-01-01-commitments ?
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tantek might be time to blog an update!
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davidpeach When using maps on an indieweb site, what third party maps do people generally go with? Google Maps, Open Street Map etc...?
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cweiske OSM
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cweiske if you want to fully go indie, you'll use your own OSM server :)
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cweiske I recommend leafletjs
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cweiske for use with OSM
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cweiske with tiles from mapquest
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cweiske example: http://kita-ruesselchen.de/kontakt/andere-kitas/
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davidpeach Thanks a lot cweiske I'll take a look into that tonight
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /User:Ben.thatmustbe.me (+525) "/* MobilePub */ added new media types, download link" (view diff)
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ben_thatmust sweet. video and audio posting working via micropub
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ben_thatmust i just need to clean up the display of it though
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cweiske do you POST videos via micropub?
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cweiske or simply pass URLs?
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ben_thatmust micropub
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ben_thatmust actually, its not fully tested yet... let me try that and audio
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cweiske erm
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cweiske I mean if you upload the videos via POST
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ben_thatmust yes, i do
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cweiske or if you tell the micropub endpoint "There is the video URL"
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cweiske does your server then convert to mp4 and webm?
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ben_thatmust that it doesn't do, it currently just leaves it in whatever format in receives, but it wouldn't be that difficult to add
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ben_thatmust i don't even have markup yet, it just posts a link to the video
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ben_thatmust have to do the UI later
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@OnlineCrsLady #OUTechExpo @OpenTeachingOU for more @jimgroom goodness, check out fab hangout #ccourses: https://www.youtube.com/ Connecting to the IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/553568002621579264)
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@petermolnar @thatswattsup just read your article, interesting, especially the Medium part. Have you thought about http://indiewebcamp.com/own-your-data ? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/553571043395522560)
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ben_thatmustbeme first audio file posted YAY! https://ben.thatmustbe.me/audio/2015/1/9/8/
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Loqi giggles
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ben_thatmustbeme still need to markup
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ben_thatmustbeme after work
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Loqi [mention] http://stephenslighthouse.com/2015/01/09/new-clues-doc-searls-and-david-weinberger-update-the-cluetrain-manifesto/ linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Principles (pingback)
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snarfed congrats ben_thatmustbeme!
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ben_thatmustbeme i'll have to try a video later
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ben_thatmustbeme that should work fine too
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ben_thatmustbeme just posts a link too
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snarfed bonus points: use <video> so you automatically get a nice player
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cweiske snarfed, but you still have to convert to m4 and webm on the server then
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cweiske s/m4/mp4/
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Loqi cweiske meant to say: snarfed, but you still have to convert to mp4 and webm on the server then
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snarfed cweiske: ah, i see
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snarfed (i don't actually know much about html5 :P)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.danielacontism.it/nuovo-cluetrain-manifesto-istruzioni-web-3-0/ linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Principles (pingback)
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ben_thatmustbeme mp4 works, but not in all browsers
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cweiske the open source ones don't support it
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cweiske since it's patent encumbered
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ben_thatmustbeme actually, MP4 works more on all browsers supposedly
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ben_thatmustbeme webm does not
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cweiske mp4 does not work on opera and chromium and firefox on linux
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cweiske they support webm, though
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petermolnar mp4 works on browsers with h264 support
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ben_thatmustbeme http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_video.asp
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cweiske w3fools.com
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@davidpeach1 My IndieWeb Setup: http://davidpeach.co.uk/indieweb-setup/ (twitter.com/_/status/553578205555466240)
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ben_thatmustbeme so in other words you just have to support it when you build it
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ben_thatmustbeme https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Supported_media_formats
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cweiske "when you build it"?
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ben_thatmustbeme I use gentoo
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ben_thatmustbeme actually funtoo because gentoo moves too slow
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petermolnar not all of us linux users have the patient for gentoo or arch :)
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petermolnar s/patient/patience
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Loqi petermolnar meant to say: not all of us linux users have the patience for gentoo or arch :)
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ben_thatmustbeme no, but there are plenty of ways to get support installed, plus its a much smaller market
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ben_thatmustbeme s/market/audience/
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: no, but there are plenty of ways to get support installed, plus its a much smaller audience
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ben_thatmustbeme i'll add transcoding things to my list for later, but not an immediate need
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ben_thatmustbeme "It works for me"
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GWG Afternoon
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aaronpk good morning!
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: congrats on getting video and audio uploads working!
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aaronpk yeah I just use mp4 for mine (or whatever instagram sends me when uploaded from ownyourgram.com) and use a <video> tag
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GWG I have users. This is new for me. How does that work?
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aaronpk i figure the video codecs will shake out in a while, i don't really wanna spend a lot of time dealing with transcoding and stuff
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@adactio @philiprenich @Iambevan7 Check out http://indiewebcamp.com/posse and feel free to hop on IRC for more answers: #indiewebcamp on freenode. (twitter.com/_/status/553600401757704192)
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GWG I keep wondering how to scratch my itches along with other people's
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danlyke My itches are mostly about building community, so scratching them means scratching others. It's just figuring out what they are that's the hard bit.
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Loqi [bridgy] Philip Renich favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/posse (https://twitter.com/adactio/status/553600401757704192)
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ben_thatmustbeme danlyke, you scratch my itch i'll scratch yours? :P
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk, it should be good to build in iOS, I am going to do a mobile unified page option though, if you want to wait for that
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aaronpk cool. yeah I have enough stuff to keep me busy right now. I'll wait
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ben_thatmustbeme I'm curious how the audio comes out in iOS, supposedly you can go straight to mp4 now on ios, but it might involve some changes to cordova itself
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aaronpk neat
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk, in theory building it involves just a couple of cli commands
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aaronpk well, plus updating all my ios dev certs and stuff :)
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm sure benwerd would be interested in it if it can do audio without doing wav
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ben_thatmustbeme actually, there is build.phonegap.com
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ben_thatmustbeme adobe does it all for you, just need some new icons that i can put in a public repo
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aaronpk they have to still require I upload my dev certs tho
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aaronpk yeah I just signed up there, there's a spot for me to upload a .p12 cert and provisioning profile
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ben_thatmustbeme good morning tantek
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tantek good morning ben_thatmustbeme and congrats on shipping audio/video posts!
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ben_thatmustbeme thanks, though they aren't pretty yet, but it works
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tantek you've posted at least one of each type right?
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ben_thatmustbeme i haven't reposted a video. i had to delete the last one
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aaronpk I enjoy the particularly clever "hack" of just linking to the file rather than fiddling with inline players :)
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ben_thatmustbeme haha, for now
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tantek what fiddling? <audio src=URL controls=controls> or <video>
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tantek how is that any harder to generate than <a href=URL>link text</a> ?
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aaronpk oh does <audio> have browser support now? I only knew about video
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tantek (!!!)
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tantek aaronpk I have a book to sell you ;) tantek.com/html5now
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aaronpk ha
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ben_thatmustbeme haha
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ben_thatmustbeme video is uploading... 71% ... such a slow network here
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aaronpk everything except opera mini http://caniuse.com/#feat=audio
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tantek.com created /Audio (+19) "r" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme hmmm. that did not work at all... something crashed
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ben_thatmustbeme i think i'm likely missing some cleanup function that was there for photos but isn't for the video function i'm using
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tantek.com edited /✊ (+0) "-r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /🌐 (+9) "-r" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme seems to be something wrong with my MP endpoint receiving videos :/
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tantek.com created /audio (+596) "stub with dfn, indieweb examples, see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /🎤 (+19) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /search (+85) "emojicon" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /video (+97) "emojicon, see also audio" (view diff)
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: add your first audio post permalink to https://indiewebcamp.com/audio#Ben_Roberts
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tantek (still can't believe we didn't have a /audio page before today)
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tantek (since benwerd has been posting them for a while)
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tantek.com edited /podcast (+49) "dfn linky" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /photo (+97) "emojicon, see also video" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /audio (+6) "/* Ben Roberts */ adding permalink" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /posts (+12) "/* Kinds of Posts */ add audio since 2 sites now posting it" (view diff)
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aaronpk back in August I was trying to add audio support to p3k
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aaronpk but I wanted to be really fancy about it and show a little waveform of the audio like how the soundcloud player does it
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tantek.com edited /posts (+73) "emojicons" (view diff)
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aaronpk I should probably just ship this without waveform generation and just use the browser audio tag
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Loqi yea!
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tantek +1
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tantek capture "waveform generation" as an itch instead
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aaronpk it's aaaalllmost working too
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /video (+136) "/* Indieweb Support */ adding video post" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /audio (+245) "link benwerd's first apparent audio post" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme there, video posted successfully
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tantek is now hooked on benwerd's podcast.
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek link?
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tantek http://werd.io/content/streamingmedia/
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GWG benwerd has a podcast?
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tantek darnit I just tried to click on his hashtag in the heading and it navigated and lost the audio!
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aaronpk hm the mf2 parser doesn't seem to recognize the audio src
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aaronpk the "media" property is a blank string
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aaronpk http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwerd.io%2F2014%2Fshoplifters-and-thieves-podcastsunday
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tantek hey it's been in the spec for months :P
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aaronpk oh that recently?
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tantek checking … yes, officially added 2014-10-06
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aaronpk so the problem with using <audio class="u-media"> is that the parsed result doesn't indicate whether the file is audio or video
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tantek http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-parsing&diff=64578&oldid=64427
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aaronpk cause it doesn't know about the html element that had the class
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tantek where did you get u-media?
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aaronpk ben's post
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aaronpk I was planning on using u-audio for mine, like how I have u-photo and u-video
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@jimgroom @dajbelshaw I basically ransacked the #IndieWeb tech trends post @audreywatters did for my talk today http:///indie.html #shameless (twitter.com/_/status/553624783233888257)
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: shame shame there is no u-media (you should use u-x-media if you want to use it experimentally), and there *IS* an proposed u-audio: http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry#Proposed_Additions
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aaronpk benwerd
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aaronpk i meant
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aaronpk so many bens here
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tantek clearly the bens are dominating audio
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ben_thatmustbeme i need to completely review the mf2 in my templates
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tantek ok sounds like a known bug then
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ben_thatmustbeme i honestly just grabbed my photo template and did pretty close to s/photo/audio/ and s/photo/video
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ben_thatmustbeme cool that my phone uses mp4 for video and audio, no messing with .amr files or whatever it is android uses sometimes
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aaronpk with u-audio and u-video, readers can do a good job of presenting the media in a way that fits the reader's UI
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tantek aaronpk - hence why those two were proposed
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tantek also prior art from Twitter Cards
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aaronpk i can't wait til i have enough time to start working on my reader. i'm pretty excited about it
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aaronpk http://aaron.pk/n4_32
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aaronpk not sure if I should prioritize building a reader or PESOS my likes
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snarfed aaronpk: do you have (or can you make) bookmarklets that auto-fill the body of a new post in p3k?
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snarfed if so, you can do a poor man's version of reader actions really quickly, while still working toward the full indie reader long term
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tantek is totally going to submit a pull request to Known to fix this
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aaronpk snarfed: i have that for my desktop browser
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aaronpk but i can't do it on mobile
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snarfed your ios browser doesn't support bookmarklets?
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@hotgamesandroid RT @jimgroom: @dajbelshaw I basically ransacked the #IndieWeb tech trends post @audreywatters did for my talk today http://t.co/nfOC2NbmLh… (twitter.com/_/status/553627956854009856)
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snarfed :(
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aaronpk also the instagram app seems to have removed the "get url" button
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Phyks Loqi: hi
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aaronpk there's a really hacky way to do bookmarklets on ios safari, but that doesn't solve the problem really
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Loqi Phyks: kylewm left you a message on 1/8 at 11:50am: any idea why you are not receiving my comment here? https://kylewm.com/2015/01/interesting-this-is-basically-the-unofficial-api
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snarfed yeah, for ig you'd also need to use http://instagram-atom.appspot.com/ in a feed reader app
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tantek pull request submitted. let's see how long it takes ;)
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aaronpk oh nice
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aaronpk https://github.com/idno/idno/pull/696
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snarfed aaronpk: cool. feed reader + bookmarklets on android is a pretty smooth flow, at least for me, but i see how ios might not be
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Phyks kylewm: no idea, that's weird… can you try to send again the webmention please ?
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Phyks !tell kylewm no idea, that's weird… can you try to send again the webmention please ?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Phyks (oups, sorry for the noise)
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aaronpk Phyks: you can send it too if you just want to debug
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kylewm Phyks: sent, it says it was successful
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Loqi kylewm: Phyks left you a message 1 minute ago: no idea, that's weird… can you try to send again the webmention please ?
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Phyks and it is not showing up
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Phyks I'll try to debug it myself
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kylewm cool thanks
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kylewm could be a problem on my end, my markup changed a lot recently
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tantek.com edited /audio (+599) "add simple why and how" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /video (+672) "add simple why and how" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /reasons (+17) "r" (view diff)
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tantek alright, hopefully that will reduce audio / video post markup errors in the future.
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aaronpk yay
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Phyks mmmh kylewm, I send curl -i -d "source=https://kylewm.com/2015/01/interesting-this-is-basically-the-unofficial-api&target=https://known.phyks.me/2015/personal-review-of-the-lenovo-thinkpad-t440" https://known.phyks.me/webmention/ but I have an error ('source URI has no link to target URI')
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Phyks which obviously is not the case
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Phyks plus, you managed to like one of my post in the past
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Phyks (forget about the last point, you used u-like-of and this has nothing to do with reply-to, my bad)
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ben_thatmustbeme kylewm, video and audio upload now working from MobilePub
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Phyks need some sleep…
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Phyks kylewm: I did not send with the right target url ><
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KevinMarks audio tags work petty well now, though file uploads of audio did crash browsers hard for a bit
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Phyks kylewm: I confirm I have a 202
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KevinMarks irony: my test pages and examples here are now dead because Apple suck at paid hosting http://epeus.blogspot.com/2010/01/audio-video-html5-and-standards.html
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ben_thatmustbeme i really wonder how many webmentions i missed since i have had vouch only but not logging attempts that got 449's
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ben_thatmustbeme (which i now do)
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aaronpk wow "service unavailable" http://homepage.mac.com/
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KevinMarks fuckers
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Loqi lolz
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KevinMarks I should repost them on kevinmarks.com, they're in gogole drive but had absolute URLs https://ebd51205c7e046304165715f77a9524dca2b8722.googledrive.com/host/0B7cAS_dEul22MlEtRFhabkc0a2c/audiotests.html
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ben_thatmustbeme hasn't homepage.mac.com been down for some time?
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KevinMarks yep
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KevinMarks http://epeus.blogspot.com/2013/04/hosting-and-impermanence.html
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KevinMarks mind you I should have switched back them http://epeus.blogspot.com/2006/04/apple-is-holding-my-data-hostage.html
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ben_thatmustbeme don't see it on /site-deaths
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tantek what is mac.com?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "mac.com" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=mac.com
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Phyks !tell kylewm seems to be a bug in Known. At least, if it is incorrect markup, it does not handle it correctly. Will report.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gregorlove.com edited /media_checkin (+62) "/* Existing services */ +Goodreads" (view diff)
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KevinMarks ben embeds inline style int he AV posts, which looks odd in unmung
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gRegor` tommorris: Noticed your book checkin prototype on /media_checkin: http://cl.ly/image/3V2Y281F3w3D Have you implemented that on your site yet, and if so do you track reading progress as well?
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gRegor` I'm curious about the mf2 to use to represent reading progress, as either a page number or percentage.
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tommorris gRegor`: nope, not yet.
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gregorlove.com edited /Goodreads (+12) "/* See Also */" (view diff)
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snarfed is embarrased that he still outsources his reading list to goodreads (https://snarfed.org/books ) instead of owning it
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snarfed hates designing/implementing ui, and goodreads's embeds are really good
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Loqi [mention] http://cluetrain.com/newclues/ linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Principles (webmention)
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gRegor` snarfed: I'm going to be experimenting with it in the near future
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snarfed nice!
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KevinMarks so, can we help http://cluetrain.com/newclues/ get with the indieweb?
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tantek gRegor`: reading progress, like a page number, sounds like a … /bookmark ;)
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tantek KevinMarks: it's a bit tl;dr TBH
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tantek can you distill it into specific points?
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gRegor` Hm. What would the URL be for the /bookmark in that case?
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tantek ISBN with a #pagenumber ;)
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KevinMarks hm, their "embed the clue" markup could use some work
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aaronpk what about things without an isbn?
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gRegor` Interesting. Why do you say /bookmark instead of /media_checkin?
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aaronpk seems more like a media checkin to me as well
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KevinMarks 72 In the Kingdom of Apps, we are users, not makers. 73 Every new page makes the Web bigger. Every new link makes the Web richer.
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tantek ok I'll bite. because obv http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bookmark
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aaronpk i'd use a bookmark post for a physical book the same way I do online bookmarks, as a way to mark a spot in the book that's significant in some way
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aaronpk i wouldn't use a bookmark to track progress of reading a book (despite that being the origin of the term)
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tantek so when you put down a book, you post a bookmark of where you got to
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gRegor` term collision :)
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tantek seriously can't believe he had to explain that.
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tantek you could even attach a photo to the bookmark of the page you got to
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tantek which would still be a bookmark post since the photo is secondary
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aaronpk see also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_ears
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aaronpk "Dog-earing is also commonly used to mark a section or phrase in a book that one finds to be important or of personal meaning."
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KevinMarks bookmark post: https://plus.google.com/+KevinMarks/posts/1q6NL51Yea2
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gRegor` Regardless of the terminology, mostly I'm curious about the mf2 to use in marking it up. Which is more for #microformats. I'll discuss there once I start working on it.
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tantek gRegor`: that's the point no new uf needed if it's just a bookmark
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tantek just a URL ;)
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KevinMarks (the odd part of that was that google OCRd the text and identified the book for me)
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gRegor` Does tantek seem extra winky today? ;)
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tommorris spots mention of Cluetrain and feels obligated to mention his very own Cynictrain Manifesto: https://tommorris.org/posts/8616
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KevinMarks tommorris: I also like gluetrain: http://web.archive.org/web/20041022054701/http://gluetrain.com/index.html
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KevinMarks "On-line markets are like the endless conversations you have with your in-laws about when are you going to have another kid."
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gRegor` One of the features I like with Goodreads is the graphs they generate. https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/262371331 click "Graph" at the right of the "Reading Progress" heading. It would be easier to generate that if I didn't have to parse a page number from the URL
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tantek what is a graph?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "graph" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=graph
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tantek gRegor`: are you saying that generating graphs is a personal itch of yours?
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gRegor` Yep. http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Gregorlove.com#Interests
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tommorris I'm in the middle of writing a review of a book for my own site. I'm reading the book on my Kindle, and seem to have a mixture of notes I've scribbled in a notebook, and highlights I've made on my Kindle. pulling that together into a review post should be fun.
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gRegor` Initially, of course, I just want basic check-ins for my reading progress, of course. Graphs and more advanced features can come later.
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KevinMarks my amazon account is shared with my sons, so I get their coursebooks and highlights too
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gregorlove.com created /graph (+93) "stub" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com (-9) "/* Introduction */" (view diff)
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KevinMarks so, I'm on gillmor gang with the New clues cluetrain chaps at 1
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KevinMarks wondering how best to convey indieweb ideas to them
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KevinMarks should I fork their manifesto onto my site so it is webmentionable?
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kylewm it's already been turned into a SPA http://listicle.io/cluetrain/
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Loqi kylewm: Phyks left you a message 56 minutes ago: seems to be a bug in Known. At least, if it is incorrect markup, it does not handle it correctly. Will report.
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ben_thatmustbeme KevinMarks, we can all post quick comments on it if you do that
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KevinMarks is there a way to say "I syndicated this from them" ?
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ben_thatmustbeme repost-of ?
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kylewm Phyks: hmmm, it looks like it's not just you. i cant reply on werd.io either!
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aaronpk kylewm: maybe it's an ssl issue then... did you make sure to include the intermediate certs?
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Phyks yep, that should be ok
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Phyks but I found PHP errors
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Phyks Known is not handling your webmention correctly and fails with erros
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Phyks *errors
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kylewm oh!
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KevinMarks hm, this html is very retro
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kylewm KevinMarks: which?
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kylewm newclues?
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KevinMarks yep
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kylewm KevinMarks: honestly I found your retweets last night more thought provoking ""you just casually unleashed network effects on individual brains with no safeguards?"
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KevinMarks I liked that one
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kylewm @_danilo
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ben_thatmustbeme KevinMarks, haven't watched Gillmor Gang before. live streaming?
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ben_thatmustbeme and would that be starting now?
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KevinMarks yes
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KevinMarks well, soon
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ben_thatmustbeme anyone want a oneplus invite
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ben_thatmustbeme or you can give it out on the show
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kylewm has anyone seen this Known bug? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38780898/known-bug.png
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KevinMarks now you tell mw
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kylewm "Connect services" inception
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KevinMarks I just bought a nexus 6
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ben_thatmustbeme i just got the e-mail but i just got a moto360, so i'm not too thrilled with the idea of dropping another 300
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ben_thatmustbeme we are spending a lot of money right now, plus saving up as we have Twins on the way
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@kevinmarks I reposted the New Clues on my own site so that Webmentions and fragmentions can be used on it: http://www.kevinmarks.com/newclues.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/553658364803039232)
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kylewm Phyks++ thanks for reporting that bug on idno
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Loqi Phyks has 3 karma
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Phyks kylewm thanks :)
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@kevinmarks "Put all the Web pages together and you have a new world." http://www.kevinmarks.com/newclues.html#Put+all+the+Web+pages+together+and+you+have+a+new+world #indieweb #Newclues @dsearls @dweinberger (twitter.com/_/status/553659444546899968)
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KevinMarks you want to webmention me?
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ben_thatmustbeme already did, may not have sent yet
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KevinMarks live now
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KevinMarks http://ustream.tv/GillmorGang
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ben_thatmustbeme webmention SHOULD have sent, not seeing it on your site KevinMarks
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KevinMarks hm
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ben_thatmustbeme manually sending now
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KevinMarks voxpelli - did i break the embed?
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kylewm Sent webmention successfully to http://www.kevinmarks.com/newclues.html. Sender response: {"pending":true,"message":"WebMention accepted"}:
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@Shoq RT @kevinmarks: I reposted the New Clues on my own site so that Webmentions and fragmentions can be used on it: http://www.kevinmarks.com/newclues.html #ind… (twitter.com/_/status/553661494354014208)
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kylewm there they are
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ben_thatmustbeme either that worked finally and i just re-sent it, or it didn't send right the first time, but there you go
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KevinMarks hm
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KevinMarks excellent
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@AAinslie RT @kevinmarks: "Put all the Web pages together and you have a new world." http://www.kevinmarks.com/newclues.html#Put+all+the+Web+pages+together+and+you+have+a+new+world #indieweb #Newclues @dsearls @dweinberger (twitter.com/_/status/553661902648512513)
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kylewm nice use of fragmention
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KevinMarks and I'm seeing bridgy likes too
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KevinMarks whoa, did that dynamically update?
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KevinMarks voxpelli++
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Loqi voxpelli has 17 karma
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kylewm ben_thatmustbeme: did you notice your post says it was "5 hours ago"?
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ben_thatmustbeme yes, i did. time zone?
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KevinMarks timezones, how do they work?
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kylewm your site says 2015-01-09T16:06:55+00:00
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kylewm 4pm UTC
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KevinMarks which is 5 hour ago
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ben_thatmustbeme datetime="2015-01-09T16:06:55+00:00"
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ben_thatmustbeme huh
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ben_thatmustbeme weird, that used to work
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ben_thatmustbeme i had been quite picky about that
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tantek good afternoon #indiewebcamp!
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tantek is KevinMarks still in his live broadcast?
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KevinMarks yes http://ustream.tv/GillmorGang
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@BillSeitz RT @kevinmarks: reposted NewClues on my own site so that WebMention-s and fragmentions can be used on it: http://www.kevinmarks.com/newclues.html #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/553664907510808577)
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tantek let's see how much proprietariness is needed today for ustream
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tantek KevinMarks: is there an IRC backchannel for it?
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KevinMarks http://friendfeed.com/stevegillmor/15bb3b9c/gillmor-gang-live-friday-01-09-15-recording-at
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kylewm or impropriety, he just said "cover our butts"
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tantek wait friendfeed is still a thing?!?
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snarfed friendfeed is still a big thing in turkey
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KevinMarks web-based chat
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snarfed just there though
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KevinMarks not sure how much sysadmin it has now
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tantek who else is watching gillmorgang?
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tantek hmm - no one is mentioning the plumbing-centric distraction that the decentralized folks got trapped in
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KevinMarks in general? a fairly small group live, more when it posts on TC tomorrow
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tantek plumbing-first thinking became obsolete
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tantek and the silos out-innovated in UX
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tantek I mean who *here* in #indiewebcamp is watching
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KevinMarks so is stressing the web wrong?
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tantek KevinMarks: I don't understand the question
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KevinMarks is talking about http and the web plumbing
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tantek who is?
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KevinMarks Keith was, I was responding
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tantek wow this has nothing to do with homophily
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tantek RSS vs Atom wars distracted an entire generation in the web - turned out both were unnecessary
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tantek yes - mobile first design is obv important
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tantek KevinMarks - re: SMS and Voice fading - note I stopped using a phone number (for all of last year) http://tantek.com/2014/006/t2/ipod-wifi-mifi-works-iamnotanumber-nophone-future
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kylewm tantek: i assume you saw http://www.wired.com/2015/01/phones-are-tablets/
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tantek kylewm: didn't.
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kylewm preaching to the converted in your case
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KevinMarks i love that this is suddenly a revelation to iOS people
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Phyks kylewm: that's superweird. The issue got fixed (https://github.com/idno/idno/issues/699#event-216771704) and when firing webmentions, I receive mail notification by Known, but your comment does not appear…
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tantek kylewm: indeed. except the author of that article nowhere says they are attempting to dogfood "never buy a phone"
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tantek so meh
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Phyks kylewm: I don't have much time to debug this tonight, will keep you updated :)
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tantek uh no, biggest problem with RSS is that it embodies plumbing-centric thinking, was the heart of the RSS vs. Atom war distraction etc.
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tantek hmm - gillmorgang appears to be "OFF AIR" for me - anyone else?
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KevinMarks yes, the tricorder crashed
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KevinMarks they're rebooting it
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KevinMarks refresh to see it
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tantek video is back but no audio
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KevinMarks audio now?
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kylewm yes
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tantek yes
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tantek KevinMarks - note that on FirefoxOS, you can use the default app store, another app store, or install directly from web.
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tantek why are they more afraid of gamergate than the gunmen responsible for the Paris tragedy?
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KevinMarks good point
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tantek KevinMarks: please confront them about that
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tantek URLs for each clue is good - however, without aggregation e.g. marginalia via webmentions, it loses a lot of utility.
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KevinMarks yes. also their embeds are a bit odd
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KevinMarks span style='color:#3C63FF'>New Clue #: </span><spanstyle='color:#162CFF'> 114 Live the values you want the Internet to promote. </span><br><span>&mdash; <a href='http://www.cluetrain.com/newclues/#114'>New Clues</span>
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tantek KevinMarks - note that next Wednesday is the 10 year anniversary when Technorati launched web-wide distributed tags.
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tantek *real-time* web-wide distributed tags
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tantek that ought to blow Doc's mind
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@kevinmarks “Live the values you want the Internet to promote.” #newclues http://t.co/M0Ra9Gh3qv. #indieweb #selfdogfooding (twitter.com/_/status/553676267774431232)
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@hotelzululima RT @kevinmarks: “Live the values you want the Internet to promote.” #newclues http://t.co/M0Ra9Gh3qv. #indieweb #selfdogfooding (twitter.com/_/status/553676416215040000)
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tantek Sharecropping was Shane Becker's term (not Winer's until later) http://iamshane.com/articles/2010/11/7/1/no-more-sharecropping
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KevinMarks and Tim Bray's https://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2003/07/12/WebsThePlace
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tantek Apple's going to die? Oh like mac.com?
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tantek KevinMarks: ooh good early reference!
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tantek what is a sharecropper?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "sharecropper" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=sharecropper
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tantek.com created /sharecropper (+27) "r" (view diff)
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tantek phones will die
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tantek they'll be called comms
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@kevinmarks @gwachob so that fragmentions and webmentions work on it (twitter.com/_/status/553677911761235968)
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@gwachob @kevinmarks Oh yah, that #indieweb stuff ;) (twitter.com/_/status/553678852095217664)
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KevinMarks https://twitter.com/_danilo/status/553449402002464768
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@_danilo They're gonna be like "you just casually unleashed network effects on individual brains with no safeguards? Some dumb fuckers, there" (twitter.com/_/status/553449402002464768)
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gRegor` Wow, I'm surprised to see people using Friendfeed still.
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gRegor` Surprised it hasn't been closed, too.
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KevinMarks it's gradually rotting
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KevinMarks but works as a web chatroom still
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gRegor` Using it as a chat is pretty interesting.
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KevinMarks Gillmor wants to make an app for it, which seems a bit daft
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tantek yeah that's funny
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tantek who's going to maintain it for him?
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tantek gRegor`: same as people "use" Twitter for "chat"
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gRegor` tantek: Just read about your phone-less 2014. Very cool.
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gRegor` tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 137 karma
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tantek only 1200 (baud) left to go ;)
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gRegor` That friendfeed page works a lot better than twitter.com for chat though
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KevinMarks almost as good as our irc page
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tantek gRegor`: Twitter used to work *great* for chat when you could do it over XMPP
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gRegor` Aye, that was awesome.
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tantek I still have gtalk archives of those
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KevinMarks searchable archives of them yes
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tantek hmm - what would the indieweb equivalent be of sending notes back/forth over XMPP? bear? got any thoughts there? (you'd still have permalinks of course)
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tantek I suppose everyone would have to run their own XMPP server that would listen on everyone else's XMPP server for their posts
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KevinMarks webrtc text?
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tantek and then you could listen to your XMPP servers aggregate of all those
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tantek on something like Adium
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gRegor` What is XMPP?
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tantek KevinMarks: no as a reader
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Loqi Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP) is an open messaging standard, perhaps best known in its use for cross-platform instant-messaging application interoperability https://indiewebcamp.com/XMPP
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tantek does anyone have XMPP based posting of notes to their server working?
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tantek e.g. add your server as an XMPP contact in your chat app
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tantek then whenever you chat to your server's XMPP contact in your chat app (e.g. Adium), it publishes (and POSSEs) a new note for each chat message.
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tantek I know Tumblr has a chat contact for posting notes
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tantek.com edited /sharecropping (+1285) "Background - Tim Bray used sharecropper in reference to building apps for a proprietary platform instead of the web" (view diff)
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@dietrich initial migration of blog from Wordpress to Jekyll on Github. http://autonome.github.io/ #indieweb #babysteps (twitter.com/_/status/553684230811578368)
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tantek another transition
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@djp1974 RT @kevinmarks: “Live the values you want the Internet to promote.” #newclues http://t.co/M0Ra9Gh3qv. #indieweb #selfdogfooding (twitter.com/_/status/553685291496509441)
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tantek.com edited /sharecropping (+1584) "document history of use of the term sharecropper in reference to the web. modern definition started with Shane Becker's usage AFAIK. citations provided." (view diff)
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tantek KevinMarks: updated research provided: I assert that Shane was the the first to use the term sharecropper specifically as we mean it today: https://indiewebcamp.com/sharecropping#Background - neither Tim Bray nor Winer used it as we mean it today.
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@kevinmarks @dweinberger @dsearls some responses on my repost http://www.kevinmarks.com/newclues.html#webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/553689488921096194)
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davidpeach.co.uk edited /User:Davidpeach.co.uk (+81) "Added new indieweb post link." (view diff)
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davidpeach.co.uk edited /User:Davidpeach.co.uk (+23) (view diff)
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davidpeach.co.uk edited /User:Davidpeach.co.uk (+2) (view diff)
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