#benwerdkylewm: I'll loop back and think about heuristics for this. Makes sense, I think, for p-in-reply-to with a u-url inside it to be effectively conflated to u-in-reply-to behind the scenes.
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#kylewmbenwerd: sounds good. let me know if you want me to file a GH issue
#KevinMarksso will this show as POSSE to bridgy? I reposted the New Clues on my own site so that Webmentions and fragmentions can be used on it: http://www.kevinmarks.com/newclues.html ”ª#”Žindieweb”¬
#colintedfordLoqi, I want to know if you follow redirects and GWG want to know "What is Facebonk?"
#LoqiFacebook is a popular content hosting silo and activity aggregator most well known for being the largest centralized social network on the web https://indiewebcamp.com/Facebonk
#aaronpkI don't know if this is something you were expecting, but I made a point of never adding css rules to microformat classes, I always add a separate class if I need to for CSS
#tantekI had mentioned a while ago that I use separate classes for styling
#tantekhadn't quite "made a point" of it yet because I was still figuring it out
#aaronpkmaybe we should say that explicitly on wiki pages for h-entry and others
#tantekI don't know what to say because I don't quite understand what a best practice would be
#aaronpkhm. well what i've been doing is writing my CSS as I normally would have without microformats classes.
#aaronpkand treating the microformats classes as a totally separate set of things to add to the markup
#aaronpkmy CSS skills aren't that great, so I can't recommend a particular strategy for CSS, but that pattern could apply to anyone
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#aaronpkside note: akismet is sucking pretty bad lately
#aaronpkit's just not catching hundreds of comments
#aaronpkalso how am I getting trackbacks when "allow link notifications from other blogs (pingbacks and trackbacks)" is un-checked
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#snarfedKevinMarks: re the FB group posts, you're right, bridgy doesn't currently support FB groups
#snarfedwe could definitely consider adding it. i don't use FB groups though, so i/we'd probably want help from someone who knows the UX
#gRegor`aaronpk: Is this on a WordPress site? Do you report the missed spam to Akismet or just delete it?
#gRegor`I'm getting a lot more "literate" spam slipping through.
#ben_thatmusttantek, cool. I hadn't dealt with the u-media bits yet anyway, so that work
#gRegor`My custom plugin doesn't have a tool yet for submitting it to Akismet, which they say is supposed to make it better.
#aaronpkgRegor`: I was clicking the "spam" button, is that reporting it to akismet?
#aaronpki did that for about 5 pages of comments, then realized there were 50 more pages and stopped, and just deleted them from the database with a SQL query
#gRegor`I'm going to try adding an easy method to my plugin to bulk report and see if it gets better.
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#kylewmsnarfed: had an FB API question for you, I can't seem to get any information about my friends or their posts through the API anymore. including facebook-atom is empty
#snarfedso, re twitter profile pictures changing…i give in. i'm switching bridgy to use the unofficial url that permanently redirects to the current picture
#snarfedpunt until it actually causes you a user-visible prolem
#aaronpksnarfed: yay! I think that's a good start. But probably we should all be better about storing profile photos on our own sites, especially since we have to in order to not get ssl warnings
#snarfedthe resulting images will be the same; the only change is that the img src will now point to a url that redirects to the current image, instead of directly to it
#snarfedso, sorry, yes, it will prevent blanks in the future
#snarfedbtw aaronpk, hopefully the mixed mode warnings are caused by native wms (if at all), not by bridgy. it tries hard to always return https profile picture urls
#aaronpkI wasn't really paying attention, I just know that the only way to guarantee https is to serve them myself
#KevinMarks_I suppose a fix is to patch the webmention service to return srcset markup?
#KevinMarks_Hm, a thought. I could make a webmention silo with webmention.herokuapp.com
#KevinMarks_As it accepts webmentions for any site
#snarfedbtw KartikPrabhu, if your site "feels" slow w/twitter profile pictures, it may be the number of connections, not the size
#snarfedlooking at my pictures as a sample, my "original" 512x512 one is ~30K, and the "normal" 48x48 one is ~2K. so, bigger, but not actually big per se
#KevinMarks_So if I don't find a webmention endpoint, call them instead, then in the future if they add the webmention.herokuapp.com markup, they get the older ones.
#snarfedKevinMarks: totally! i think i've also heard discussion about offering that w/wm.io
#KartikPrabhusnarfed: yeah it is the number of connections. but then 30K vs 2K is also a factor of 10
#KevinMarks_Probably a naughty thing to do to voxpelli's Heroku bill
#snarfedKartikPrabhu: sure, hence "not big per se." 30K is fairly small in absolute terms, on the modern internet.
#KartikPrabhufair enough. avatar loading is a weird problem
#snarfedmore importantly though, those image fetches don't block fetching and rendering your page. the only thing that blocks is filling in the avatar images. so the slow "feeling" is probably mostly just seeing the "Connecting to twitter.com" bar in the bottom
#snarfedwe may notice that, but i expect most people are blind to it, so maybe don't stress :P
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#KartikPrabhu<sigh> I can't do responsive images then I use JS to load the correct size image and avatar loading then blocks content images from loading
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#KevinMarks_That's also a webmention spam model though
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#tantekchecks to see if <h2 class="p-photo"> has been magically fixed… and no.
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#KevinMarks_Why do you think styling microformats classes is bad?
#tantekKevinMarks: it's not an absolute good/bad thing, it's more like a flexibility of engineering, reducing unintended maintenance connections/burdens
#kylewmtantek: that's fair. i guess my question is: is there general consensus that PuSH is the mechanism indiereaders should try first before inventing something new?
#tantekNo other alternate mechanism has been proposed, and we haven't had sufficient pushback (no pun intended) against PuSH by people trying to implement PuSH consuming.
#kylewmKartikPrabhu: I *think* it's like indieauth, where you can choose a third party provider to delegate to
#KartikPrabhubut if everyone implements their own PuSH hub, then my site would have to keep records of all of those subscribing to send them notifications no?
#kylewmno, your site says "I'm using hub XYZ", and then when someone wants to subscribe to updates from your site, they subscribe to it on the hub you specify
#KartikPrabhuhmm what is the difference with just polling my h-feed link then?
#KartikPrabhuas in what is the advantage of having PuSH notifications over readers polling my h-feed?
#KartikPrabhuwell. I don't want to rely on a third-party hub. Then I have to run my own hub which makes me keep records of all subscribers. I just don't see the advantage over readers polling my h-feed to get updates. They can do so without me tracking who is subscribed
#KartikPrabhui mean why should I build this large plumbing just to not rely on third-party hubs, when readers can use an existing mechanism ( polling h-feeds ) to get updates?
#kylewmif you don't specify a hub, shrewdness still subscribes to updates to your site on superfeedr, and superfeedr deals with the polling
#tantekhmm - I seem to have been disconnected quietly ~20min ago
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#tantekkylewm: I had said: 15:25 kylewm: thus I think the current consensus / passive opinion is to *try* consuming real-time via PuSH and see how easy/hard it is.
#kylewmtantek: thanks that's exactly what i wanetd to know
#tantek15:28 KevinMarks: in answer to your question - in order to fix a *one line* microformats2 error in *one file* in idno / Known, I had to also touch *four* other style sheet files, since they were depending on the previous/wrong microformats2 class name.
#tantek15:28 Thus 5x the amount of work that would otherwise be necessary for a microformats markup bug fix, caused *purely* by depending on that/those microformats2 class names for CSS rules.
#tantek15:30 whereas if those style sheets depended on non-microformats classes instead, I wouldn't have had to touch them at all
#tantek15:33 Thus, "styling microformats classes" causes more maintenence work when you make microformats related fixes / changes / updates / improvements, real world example ^^^
#tantekso far the evidence is anecdotal, but it does seem like having a set of classes specifically for styling rather than microformats allows for a more easily maintained overall system.
#KartikPrabhukylewm: I get those things. But again is there any advantage over my reader polling you h-feed instead of doing all this round about trickery?
#tantekyou can more easily make microformats changes/fixes without worrying about breaking styling
#tantekand vice versa - you can make styling class name / style rule changes, without worrying about breaking the microformats.
#kylewmKartikPrabhu: the advantage is real time. i'm specifically asking because i'm looking at /mention-app
#kylewmi want to get push notifications for webmentions before i get them for the posse twitter copies :)