#indiewebcamp 2015-01-11
2015-01-11 UTC
# 
tantek kylewm, KartikPrabhu indeed - that's why this is worth questioning
# tantek so far there haven't been a ton of PuSH consumers in the wild
# tantek mostly "just" superfeedr, and then people end up using that
# tantek any time a spec/protocol etc. is complicated enough to cause only a few (or only 1?) public implementations, that's usually a red flag
# tantek same problem happened to Salmon
# kylewm so I think it's interesting that statusnet used PuSH and pump.io doesn't
# tantek it doesn't? huh that is odd
# 
@vrypan testing my #webmentions server https://blog.vrypan.net/2015/01/11/testing-my-webmentions-server/ #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/554066919360561155)
# GWG It's been a very productive Indieweb day
# GWG I should stay in bed and code more often.
# Loqi yea
# vrypan BTW, I'm @vrypan, let me know if you sent a webmention to https://blog.vrypan.net/2015/01/11/testing-my-webmentions-server/ but didn;t work as expected. Thanks!
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# snarfed huh. new webmention service, similar to wm.io: http://www.listnr.net/
# snarfed background: https://blog.vrypan.net/2015/01/11/testing-my-webmentions-server/
# vrypan snarfed listnr.net is more or less my hack for private use, webmention.io looks much more mature. :-)
# snarfed vrypan++
# Loqi vrypan has 2 karma
# snarfed still fun to see!
# snarfed congrats on the launch
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# aaronpk fwiw i'm planning on being a PuSH consumer soon
# snarfed oh nice
# snarfed heh. more props to kylewm: implement bridgy publish for IG likes, a day later barryf is trying to use it to POSSE photos and comments :P
# kylewm oops!
# snarfed :P np
# tantek vrypan: just tried liking your post and got a 500!
# snarfed i wonder if we should add a "(likes only)" label next to the IG button for enabling publish - and/or next to the preview form - on the bridgy user page
# tantek vrypan: at the bottom of the error message returned from your webmention endpoint: File "lib/urlinfo2.py", line 142, in parse_hcard \\ 'name': p_name, \\ UnboundLocalError: local variable 'p_name' referenced before assignment
# vrypan tantek, thanks. What's the source URL?
# tantek my like permalink http://tantek.com/2015/010/f5
# kylewm snarfed: yeah that is a good idea
# kylewm vrypan: I got a 500 too, with a stacktrace in the error message
# kylewm I can forward to you if you want
# tantek kylewm: yes - I got a stacktrace as well - that error was just the top/bottom
# vrypan I'm working on it, thanks guys. Something with parsing microformat data.
# snarfed kylewm: huh, actually barryf was trying to IG like. looks like the /likes POST to the IG API failed consistently. mind taking a look? https://www.brid.gy/instagram/barryf#publishes
# 
@dissolve333 Already posting so much more thanks to MobilePub #indieweb(btmb.me s/6N) (twitter.com/_/status/554072726701223937)
# vrypan tantek, kylewm can you please try again?
# kylewm snarfed: looking
# kylewm vrypan: sent
# tantek 200 OK
# vrypan It worked.
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# kylewm vrypan: I'll make a self-serving plug for https://github.com/kylewm/mf2util if you want. it can help with parsing out the author/content/type of webmentions
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# vrypan_ kylewm cool! Thanks.
# GWG Finally got around to explaining what a post kind was in detail - https://david.shanske.com/2015/01/10/post-types-post-formats-post-kinds/
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# Loqi [bridgy] Hieu Le favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015-01-01-commitments (https://twitter.com/t/status/553769383399809024)
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# snarfed it's probably time to remove my irc notification on 'bridgy' due to the new notif text :P
# GWG snarfed: What do you mean?
# snarfed GWG: most irc clients alert you (e.g. growl) when your username is said. that's usually configurable, so i added 'bridgy' and 'brid.gy'
# GWG snarfed: Oh...I completely missed the meaning.
# GWG snarfed: I saw Instagram is online now.
# snarfed but now loqi prefixes [bridgy] to wms from silos, so signal/noise is lower :P
# snarfed GWG: bridgy publish for IG? yeah! all credit goes to kylewm
# snarfed only likes, sadly, but still!
# GWG snarfed: I've never used Instagram, honestly.
# snarfed GWG: totally ok. no need to start
# snarfed GWG: glad to see your blog post on post kinds btw
# snarfed you said today was productive?
# GWG Very
# snarfed glad to hear it!
# GWG I did a bunch of things on Indieweb Post Kinds
# GWG I added a lot to mf2_s, which is the Indieweb/MF2 starter theme I've been working on
# GWG snarfed: Think I explained Post Kinds well?
# aaronpk snarfed: I was wondering if you had a highlight for bridgy :) you always seemed to show up here if someone mentioned it
# aaronpk snarfed: the other option is to not hav ethose Loqi messages say [bridgy]
# snarfed aaronpk: true! eh it's fine as is
# snarfed GWG: maybe! honestly i glaze at data model/schema stuff in general, so i'm a bad judge
# GWG snarfed: I'm more concerned about how it works than the data.
# GWG Just WordPress makes it confusing to explain
# GWG Has anyone seen pfefferle of late?
# Loqi [mention] gRegor Morrill posted 'I. Started the year with Amanda in (relatively) hot Austin, TX while Chicago was blasted with snow and -20Ëš F temperatures. The weather was ...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com (http://gregorlove.com/2015/01/1192/)
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# KartikPrabhu gRegor`: aren't you 10 days late on "A Year in Review" post ;)
# gRegor` Nope.
# GWG KartikPrabhu: Don't you need time to review the year?
# gRegor` I've always published them in January. :)
# GWG You can't do it till it is over....
# GWG And then you need to think on how it played it
# KartikPrabhu GWW: I don't review the year
# gRegor` :P to your rules! ;)
# KartikPrabhu s/GWW/GWG
# Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: GWG: I don't review the year
# GWG KartikPrabhu: I was commenting that if one is, such as gRegor`, one may choose to wait till it is over
# gRegor` My last few days of the year were chaotic with my mom's health anyway. Thankfully she's recovered and home.
# gRegor` You on for the first HWC of 2015 KartikPrabhu?
# gRegor` (Also, I'm just glad to be writing again. First blog post since October. One more in the works... need to get back in the habit.)
# tantek gRegor`: yes! back in the blog habit.
# gRegor` I was starting to get on a roll, 5 posts in October. Then boom, it's the end of December. :)
# KartikPrabhu gRegor`: yeah read that. glad she's ok
# KartikPrabhu same with no new years resolutions
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# KartikPrabhu gRegor`: yeah on for HWC
# gRegor` My new year resolution is still 1080p
# KartikPrabhu ha!
# gRegor` recycles his joke from 2012
# KartikPrabhu I also don't have "new year's resolutions" and a "blog habit"
# KartikPrabhu gRegor`: you need to upgrade to 4k
# gRegor` I don't get on myself for not writing or anything. Stuff happens. But I do enjoy when I'm posting more regularly; keeps the creativity going.
# gRegor` That's the only reason I refer to it as getting in the habit.
# GWG KartikPrabhu: I always worry that I spend more time building than writing.
# GWG gRegor`: Was it you who proposed a writing period at HWC?
# gRegor` No
# gRegor` Tantek, I think
# tantek it was Andi
# GWG Okay.
# GWG Either way, there's an option.
# gRegor` Unfortunately, unless some more regulars start coming, Chicago HWC may not continue past April. I'm planning to move to WA then.
# GWG gRegor`: HWC Bellingham?
# KartikPrabhu gRegor`: I don't think there are "more regulars" :P
# gRegor` I think there *could* be. Chicago tech scene is big enough. I'm just not really connected to it.
# GWG By comparison, HWC New York has a perfect attendance record.
# GWG We've had 0% attendance every month
# gRegor` I'd do HWC Bellingham if there was any interest.
# GWG gRegor`: You need to make friends and influence people first
# gRegor` Thanks, Dale. :)
# gRegor` Plus side: Closer to IWC 2015
# GWG I've always wanted to see Portland.
# gRegor` I was only there a couple days, but I really loved it.
# gregorlove.com edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+86) "/* Up-and-coming Meetings */ +Bellingham, WA" (view diff)
# gregorlove.com edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+8) "/* Up-and-coming Meetings */ formatting" (view diff)
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# Loqi [mention] http://x627.com/starting-over/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/next-hwc (pingback)
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# tantek forgot to add myself to like examples in the wild
# KartikPrabhu tantek: how does falcon do post updates? does it write in a temp file then switch or directly overwrite the original file?
# tantek no there are two files, one it reads from the other it writes to, for each bim
# KartikPrabhu how do they stay in sync?
# tantek.com edited /like (+1124) "add myself to indieweb examples, add some design steps for further clustering of adjacent likes of the same person's stuff" (view diff)
# tantek KartikPrabhu: they don't need to
# tantek think of one file as the "manual override", and the second is where all the "automatic" stuff is saved
# KartikPrabhu so which one is read when you display a post?
# tantek both
# KartikPrabhu so how do you update the content?
# KartikPrabhu manually?
# tantek currently manually yes - in the first file
# KartikPrabhu aah ok
# KartikPrabhu I am having trouble with mine since I add syndication links after posting and POSSEing, maybe syndication links should be stored in another file
# tantek my syndication links are stored in the second file, since those are "automatically" added
# tantek except when I manually POSSE e.g. with Bridgy Publish, then I add those syndication links to the first file
# tantek when displaying, the two sets of syndication links are unioned per post
# KartikPrabhu aah i see
# ben_thatmust !tell kylewm the gallery button is not behaving, hasn't ever worked for me, its next on my list of bugs to fix
# Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# kylewm oh cool, not just me then
# Loqi kylewm: ben_thatmust left you a message 1 minute ago: the gallery button is not behaving, hasn't ever worked for me, its next on my list of bugs to fix
# KartikPrabhu man file storage updates are hard
# tantek KartikPrabhu: yes - it's non trivial
# tantek any kind of storage system update for that matter, whether file, db schemas etc.
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# ben_thatmust also as far as being overwhelmed by writing apps, I can't recommend cordova enough
# ben_thatmust amazingly simple
# ben_thatmust it should be able to tie in to push notifications for google and apple
# ben_thatmust without much issue
# ben_thatmust haven't dug into that too much yet
# ben_thatmust anyway, back to bed
# ben_thatmust just got up to fix video and audio file markup on my site
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# aaronpk GWG: I reaaaaalllly want my house to have a website where it just posts stuff all day long from all the sensors, and I could send it webmentions to control the lights and stuff
# aaronpk I was *this close* to setting up a website for it, but my cat got a website first
# aaronpk although I feel like she's not taking advantage of it enough
# KartikPrabhu aaronpk: maybe your house can chat with your cat through webmention when you are gone
# aaronpk KartikPrabhu++
# Loqi KartikPrabhu has 87 karma
# KartikPrabhu aaronpk: how many karma points is a webmention enabled cat?
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# 
@simonv3 Love this part of HomeBrew Website Club that has a "Quiet Writing Hour" before the meetup. http://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club (twitter.com/_/status/554190856635183104)
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# 
@djp1974 RT @cubicgarden: Loving the new clues of the @cluetrain. We got to talk about this and #indieweb at @commongroundmcr @Julianlstar @davemee … (twitter.com/_/status/554218964188811264)
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# 
@derhess Massive list of #indieweb tools for #indiedev: redecentralize/alternative-internet --> https://github.com/redecentralize/alternative-internet/blob/master/README.md == save the internet! ;-) (twitter.com/_/status/554228580277035008)
# 
@TheIndieSloth RT @derhess: Massive list of #indieweb tools for #indiedev: redecentralize/alternative-internet --> https://github.com/redecentralize/alternative-internet/blob/master/README.md == save the int… (twitter.com/_/status/554228625495851008)
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# 
@GameDevRobot RT @derhess: Massive list of #indieweb tools for #indiedev: redecentralize/alternative-internet --> https://github.com/redecentralize/alternative-internet/blob/master/README.md == save the int… (twitter.com/_/status/554228992551964672)
# 
@IndieGameDevBot RT @derhess: Massive list of #indieweb tools for #indiedev: redecentralize/alternative-internet --> https://github.com/redecentralize/alternative-internet/blob/master/README.md == save the int… (twitter.com/_/status/554229807899492352)
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# Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki commented '@veganstraightedge rel=payment http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5988#page-14 http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-payment http://indiewebcamp.com...' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/payment (https://aaronparecki.com/replies/2015/01/11/1/payment)
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# mnot Quick Q: what's the proposal for ## fragments on links?
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# kylewm what is fragmention?
# Loqi A fragmention is an experimental extension to a URL to link and cite individual words or phrases of a document using double-hash anchors (##) https://indiewebcamp.com/fragmention
# kylewm mnot^^
# kylewm though I believe Kevinmarks is dropping the second #
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# mnot that's it, thanks!
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# GWG Do people tag/categorize likes?
# aaronpk I don't, because the only thing my likes have is the URL of the thing i'm liking and the date
# aaronpk if I want to tag something then i post it as a bookmark
# GWG aaronpk: Please don't say that
# GWG I'm still confused about where Bookmark fits in vs Like and such
# kylewm I do once in a while, but agree that it's more like a bookmark in that case e.g. https://kylewm.com/2015/01/like-of-mats-sjo-berg-why-i-think-pump-io-should
# GWG I also thought a like had no commentary
# GWG I'm trying to style the elements
# kylewm I'd definitely say it shouldn't have commentary
# GWG If it is commentary, isn't it a reply?
# kylewm yes
# kylewm side note, i'm mpressed to discover that blog that i linked to is using mf2
# GWG Why do I keep ending up in this rabbit hole?
# aaronpk GWG: lol
# GWG aaronpk: So far, I just keep coming back to it
# kylewm GWG: it's a moving target, the specs/recommendations are changing because we are building them!
# GWG kylewm: You think what a like is would be easier
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# tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
# GWG Good morning, tantek
# tantek and welcome back mnot!
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# pdurbin mornin'
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# KevinMarks__ Hi mnot - I have been dropping the second #, as that is an invalid URL at the moment, and including a space in the fragment differentiates from an id
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# KevinMarks__ See http://www.kevinmarks.com/poemfragmentions.html#we+get+rid+of
# tantek GWG, you said "You think what a like is would be easier", could you rephrase anything you think is not easy as a question?
# GWG tantek: It's the variant
# tantek that's not a question ;)
# GWG I'm elaborating
# GWG If I have a URL, and I want to respond to it in some way... I can...
# GWG Like it - Does this mean I like the subject or the commenter?
# GWG Bookmark it - That means what?
# GWG Favorite it - Does this mean I like the subject or the commenter? Or even the comment?
# GWG So on
# tantek re: Like it - Does this mean I like the subject or the commenter? >> It means you like "it".
# tantek re: Bookmark it - That means what? >> can be rephrased as What is a bookmark?
# Loqi A bookmark (or linkblog) is a post that is primarily comprised of a URL, often title text from that URL, sometimes optional text describing, tagging, or quoting from its contents https://indiewebcamp.com/bookmark
# tantek re: Favorite it - Does this mean I like the subject or the commenter? Or even the comment? >> It means "it" is a favorite of yours.
# tantek s/It means/That means
# Loqi tantek meant to say: re: Favorite it - Does this mean I like the subject or the commenter? Or even the comment? >> That means "it" is a favorite of yours.
# tantek If you want to "like" a person (i.e. the "commenter" you said above), you can simply like their home page as a representation of them. Same thing with favorite.
# tantek HTH
# GWG tantek: I think this needs a wiki page.
# GWG I'm just not sure of a title
# tantek GWG - if you can rephrase your questions as simple questions one at a time, we can add them to FAQs.
# GWG What is the difference between a reply, a bookmark, a favorite, a like, and a repost?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "difference between a reply, a bookmark, a favorite, a like, and a repost" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=difference+between+a+reply%2C+a+bookmark%2C+a+favorite%2C+a+like%2C+and+a+repost
# tantek what are post kinds?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "post kinds" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=post+kinds
# GWG I get some of the differences, but I find that there is a lot of drifts between people.
# GWG Especially when you get to what elements each is?
# GWG What are posts?
# tantek no need to stop at that set
# Loqi Post or posts may refer to: https://indiewebcamp.com/posts
# tantek you're asking about post kinds in general
# GWG The kinds page is inside posts
# GWG If you create new pages, I might have to edit that
# tantek GWG - saw it - doesn't apply here since that's more about the WordPress specific plumbing
# GWG It is
# GWG Except post kinds are my way of taking Indieweb to WordPress
# GWG The other two are WordPress already
# tantek right, that extra complexity is a WordPress problem, nothing to do with distinguishing post kinds or types on the indieweb
# tantek from a UI perspective, no user should care about the difference that your describing between post formats/types/kinds
# tantek from a dev perspective, I understand the need for good architectural documentation of such differences - but that's plumbing - not UI
# KevinMarks__ Difference between favourite and like - a taxonomy of favorite http://time.com/4336/a-simple-guide-to-twitter-favs/
# tantek KevinMarks: that page won't scroll without JS.
# tantek seriously broken
# GWG tantek: I'm more confused about usage
# GWG Not about plumbing
# GWG I built the plumbing for both. Though I am still debating whether to use PVC or copper
# KevinMarks__ I like Jessica's empiricism there
# tantek select all, copy, paste into a text editor, read.
# tantek timedotcom--
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# Loqi timedotcom has -1 karma
# KevinMarks__ When mid publications complain about The Web they usually mean their own crappy websites
# ben_thatmust !tell kylewm latest build has gallery button working
# Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# KevinMarks__ s/mid/media/
# Loqi KevinMarks__ meant to say: When media publications complain about The Web they usually mean their own crappy websites
# ben_thatmust i have been posting a lot more often since i made MobilePub
# ben_thatmust i am quite happy with it
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# KevinMarks__ That's a good sign Ben
# Loqi [mention] http://www.michelevlorusso.eu/new-clues/ linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Principles (pingback)
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# Loqi [bridgy] Shane Becker replied '@aaronpk That's the one! Thank you. I was looking and looking and not seeing it. Figured it was there and I was glazing over it.' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/payment (https://twitter.com/veganstraightedge/status/554360823263408128)
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# 
@unicomplex unable to read https://blog.vrypan.net/2013/09/27/crafting-my-blog/ due to #cloudflare blocking #tor users , no chance of helping test the #webmentions then. (twitter.com/_/status/554374313558962176)
# GWG How is this shaping up?
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# GWG I think I am marking up correctly
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# 
@WoodBangersLLC check it, follow us, and support fun. http://www.twitch.tv/woodbangers via @sinistergp @indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/554392620063936512)
# GWG aaronpk: You didn't snag the Twitter handle?
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# aaronpk_ Sadly no, @indieauth has been taken since 2011 and has no tweets
# aaronpk_ I got @indie_auth tho
# GWG aaronpk_: How's the burrito?
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# 
@SINISTERGP RT @WoodBangersLLC: check it, follow us, and support fun. http://www.twitch.tv/woodbangers via @sinistergp @indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/554397931063607297)
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# donpdonp just a heads up on an indie-ish project to remake irc by @hackerbeach (carribean island of dominica) project account @join67p
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# GWG prtksxna: You there?
# prtksxna GWG: Hey
# Loqi prtksxna: GWG left you a message on 1/9 at 5:59pm: Discovered another bug in Post Kinds that would affect you. Might want to update for the fix.
# GWG prtksxna: Guess you got my message
# prtksxna GWG: Yup :)
# prtksxna GWG: I just woke up, its 5 here, I'll be functional in a bit :P
# GWG Oh. Always forget time differences