#indiewebcamp 2015-01-15

2015-01-15 UTC
j12t, prtksxna, pauloppenheim and danlyke joined the channel
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GWG Pwcc, looking for me?
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tantek what is sticky content?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "sticky content" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=sticky+content
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verdi_ tantek: are you going to be using the video system for the meetup tonight?
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tantek verdi_: not sure - I don't know what the deal is with portland
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pwcc GWG: I was. I've been thinking about your comment about one-click wp -> http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-01-13/line/1421199236446
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tantek usually if we're only one site - we don't bother with dialing in
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pwcc GWG: You've got me nibbling on the hook. An indiewebpack, if you like.
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aaronpk also doesn't know what's going on with portland
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tantek.com created /sticky_content (+520) "stub with dfn, see also, different from sticky post" (view diff)
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aaronpk we have a happy hour meetup thing happening at our office today
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tantek from when?
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aaronpk 5:30-7:30
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tantek complete overlap then
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aaronpk yeah :(
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tantek how about the 28th? are you able to host / organize that in PDX?
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aaronpk yeah 28th is fine! wait let me go double check the office wall calnedar
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tantek or maybe do one-time off by one week catch-up meetup on the 21st also?
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tantek maybe in coordination with Chicago which also canceled tonight
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tantek gRegor`: ^^^
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aaronpk can't next week
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aaronpk 28th is free tho!
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gRegor` I think KartikPrabhu and I will be ok to wait for the 28th.
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tantek cool! maybe you guys can setup the events (indie, FB POSSE copy) for that then
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tantek to rally more folks to show up
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tantek (2 week advance notice and all)
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pwcc GWG: so I think it's something I'm interested in collaborating on in spite of myself. Might set up a github group & start setting up issues.
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gRegor` I've been pretty good about getting them set up early. Just haven't connected with many interested in Chicago. Well, that have expressed interest AND shown up :)
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gRegor` Second rule off HWC is: show up
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tantek gRegor`: sometimes more advance notice helps too
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tantek do you think a different (closer to other parties) venue would help?
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tantek also - check with other local web design / UX / dev meetups / groups - they likely have folks who are interested who just don't know a meetup exists.
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gRegor` Don't know. We met for months downtown, which is probably easiest to get to. Our current location is pretty good as far as transportation, too.
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gRegor` Other meetups is a good idea, though I will have to talk with Kartik more to see if he's interested in heading it up after I move in April.
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GWG <--
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GWG pwcc: what exactly are you thinking?
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pwcc GWG: Essentially the Jetpack.me model to make it one click. Include the existing indieweb-* plugins & work on micropub, etc.
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GWG pwcc: It was tried with the Indieweb plugin
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GWG I think the Indiweb plugin being a helper, rather than merging the plugin work, but we really should have the plugins in the .org repository for adoption
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GWG Hmm...how would I get membership in the Indieweb github?
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GWG https://github.com/indieweb/wordpress-indieweb
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GWG !tell pfefferle I'd like to become authorized to contribute to the WordPress Indieweb Plugin.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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pwcc GWG: y, that works. I'm not a fan of Jetpack but I figure if you can't beat them...
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GWG pwcc: I just asked pfefferle, who manages the plugin, if I can contribute to it. That would mean it can be enhanced and added to. I could also go pull request as well.
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pwcc GWG++
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Loqi GWG has 51 karma
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kylewm GWG I invited you to the indieweb and wordpress group, I hope this is not an abuse of my power!
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GWG kylewm: I am sure you won't regret it
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kylewm kinda crazy you weren't already on there ;)
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@RikMende #Android mobile test #indieweb http://blog.rmendes.net/2015/android-mobile-test-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/555539285810884608)
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GWG kylewm: I never asked
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GWG kylewm: I still wouldn't want to change the WordPress plugin without pfefferle giving me his blessing.
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GWG He's the primary contributor.
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GWG Actually, I think he's the only ne
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GWG one
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@RikMende Yay! I love my new @withknown blog #indieweb https://twitter.com/RikMende/status/555540488913428480/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/555540488913428480)
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kylewm GWG: yep that's a good way to do it
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GWG pwcc: So, try out that plugin...tell me what you think should be in it.
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pwcc GWG: will do. May end up posting my thoughts as a way to get them down :)
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GWG pwcc: You should. I just think we have a plugin...let's make it better, rather than forking.
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pwcc GWG: it feels collaborative in here, but let me know if I am breaking any protocols. I'm trying not to step on toes :D
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GWG pwcc: That is what this place is for
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GWG Hi, tantek
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tantek good evening #indiewebcamp!
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tantek we're well into "quiet" writing hour @MozSF
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tantek though there's a couple of conversations going on - not that "quiet" ;)
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GWG tantek: I'm actually free for a HWC?
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tantek you're not sure?
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GWG tantek: It surprises even me
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@inspirartion you might enjoy this http://inspirationalshit.com/artmuseum @DedraMuhammad: See the #WillyLynch syndrome in full effect in this play. #IndieAuth... (twitter.com/_/status/555546647175118849)
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tantek huh?
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GWG tantek: I was expecting to be at work now
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tantek.com edited /Events (+1031) "move past event to 2015 section, add 2015-02-28 event, strike Portland, Chicago from tonight" (view diff)
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indie-visitor I had a question in regards to what I currently use and how to make it indiewebable
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indie-visitor I currently use TiddlyWiki5 which is a self contained wiki based on JavaScript
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KartikPrabhu indie-visitor: welcome. you can use /nick yourname to set an actual nickname
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RichShumaker Where is the best place to start per se to see different things. I have checked out the sites that use indieweb
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RichShumaker I just don't know how they do it
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tantek Welcome RichShumaker!
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KartikPrabhu what is getting started?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started
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KartikPrabhu RichShumaker: there ^
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RichShumaker okay thanks.
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tantek how did you find us RichShumaker?
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KartikPrabhu RichShumaker: feel free to ask questions here is something is unclear
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RichShumaker Jeremy Ruston from TiddlyWiki mentioned you in a Google Group thread
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RichShumaker I am trying to figure out what I need to add to my TiddlyWiki to allow it to be part of the indieweb
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tantek very cool!
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tantek what is TiddlyWiki?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "TiddlyWiki" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=TiddlyWiki
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RichShumaker sure I can do that now.
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KartikPrabhu tantek: aren't you supposed to be quiet? :P
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tantek KartikPrabhu: typing counts as writing.
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RichShumaker I don't have permissions to write anything there
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RichShumaker I will give you a link instead
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tantek RichShumaker - what is your personal website?
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RichShumaker All the TW I am working on is here - http://www.richshumaker.com/tw5/
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tantek let's start with that URL
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tantek are you able to add rel=me to your links to your Twitter etc. ?
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RichShumaker http://www.richshumaker.com/tw5/TiddlyWiki-Hangouts.html#TiddlyWiki
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RichShumaker It is funny because TiddlyWiki is not defined in the Empty.HTML version and we have discussed what TiddlyWiki should say
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RichShumaker Here is another page as well http://www.richshumaker.com/tw5/TW-Learning-Level1.html#TiddlyWiki
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kylewm RichShumaker: tiddlywiki is basically a javascript application right?
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@finnern Bridgy https://www.brid.gy/ let's you post facebook likes and tweets to your wordpress blog via @kevinmarks #indieweb session in SF now (twitter.com/_/status/555552567061536768)
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kylewm tantek: bummer that the feedbin guy tried it on sandeep's site that returns Markdown instead of html
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@futuresalon RT @finnern: Bridgy https://www.brid.gy/ let's you post facebook likes and tweets to your wordpress blog via @kevinmarks #indieweb sessi… (twitter.com/_/status/555552614104846336)
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tantek kylewm - what? odd
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tantek does sandeep's site not support h-feed? if so we should remove it from examples
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kylewm If you look at the e-content blocks, they contain Markdown rather than html
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tantek let's fix the things that are broken, and document accordingly
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kylewm like, on his site
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tantek strange - are they transformed with JS?
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kylewm I don't think so, just hidden with display:none
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tantek GWG - do you know anything about the "Modest" WordPress theme?
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tantek it seems to have a "Social" feature
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GWG Not off hand.
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tantek where you can put in your social profile URLs for like Twitter, Facebookk, LInkedIn, Pinterest, Google+
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tantek but then doesn't add rel=me to them
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RichShumaker Sorry for the delay I was AFK just catching up
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tantek but it should
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tantek GWG, how do we fix the "Modest" WordPress theme to support rel=me?
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tantek since you understand these things better
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GWG I just looked it up...assuming it is the same one...it is a paid theme
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KevinMarks we need some wordpress help here
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GWG You'd have to either hack it, or talk to the developer.
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GWG KevinMarks: How so?
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tantek GWG - how do we make a pull request?
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tantek to fix it
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tantek is it open source?
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tantek where does one find it?
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tantek what is the etiquette/culture of getting fixes into WordPress themes?
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GWG The WordPress theme in the Appearance tab should have the URL confirming who the developer is.
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tantek awaits Loqi.
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KevinMarks is brid.gy's advice to use "indieweb for wordpress!" correct
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RichShumaker kylewm yes tiddlywiki 5 is a javascript wiki or a node.js wiki
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GWG Many themes are paid. I'm not sure if this is the one I found in a google search which costs $69 or a different one.
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GWG Modest is a vague term
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tantek how do you find themes by name?
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GWG If they are free, in the WordPress.org theme repository
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GWG If they are paid...harder
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snarfed i think that profile links feature is common to many wp themes, especially ones made by automattic
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GWG snarfed: That is why we need the source URL from the install
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tantek GWG - can you help find it?
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snarfed looks like you enter them in the admin console at appearance => customize => theme options
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GWG tantek: What is the URL of the site it is installed on?
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tantek lonnierae.com
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@benwerd Hanging out at Homebrew Website Club at Mozilla SF. Not too late to join us! Participants promise to talk more IRL than on IRC. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/555555265009840130)
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GWG Got it
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JRussell in that case, benwerd, I am here
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GWG http://modest.guuthemes.com/
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KevinMarks hi GWG
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KevinMarks JRussell is Jean, who is wanting to indiewebify her wordpress site
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GWG Modest is a paid theme
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KevinMarks her site is jeanmrussell.com
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GWG In both cases, a paid theme.
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GWG But you can do a rel=me using a WordPress menu
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GWG For the other theme, where the links are built into the theme, you'd have to edit it.
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GWG This would be easy
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GWG Just add a menu in the menu editor, go to Screen Options, add XFN Relationship, put in me, and get the links
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GWG JRussell: What support do you want on the site?
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KevinMarks she's clicking through along list of plugins
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KevinMarks that are bein installed in order
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KevinMarks half of which say her version hasn't been tested
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@finnern List of #indieweb plugins for wordpress http://indiewebcamp.com/wordpress If you start out use https://withknown.com/ easier interface. (twitter.com/_/status/555556875341537280)
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RichShumaker have a great day everyone
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KevinMarks indieweb-press-this isn't in the directory?
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GWG KevinMarks: Use the Indieweb plugin, which will install the other ones.
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kylewm RichShumaker: there's a meetup going on in san francisco, normally we are more responsive to newcomers, apologies!
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kylewm doh
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GWG KevinMarks: Pfefferle doesn't update his plugins in the repository as frequently.
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KevinMarks it says it wants to install indieweb-taxonomy, which is on git
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tantek GWG, so this is too hard, too non-obvious, too much config, so we're giving up on WP for Lonnie.
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GWG tantek: We were talking about that earlier
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tantek since there was no simple, here's Modest's repo, here's a way to patch it with a pull request
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GWG KevinMarks: Don't install Indieweb Taxonomy.
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tantek and deploy it
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GWG tantek: I wish there was
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GWG It's a commercial theme.
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tantek too many steps
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tantek ModestTheme--
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KevinMarks that was unclear - the link to install all was not as obvious as the individual links
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Loqi ModestTheme has -1 karma
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KevinMarks looks like lots have been installed
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GWG KevinMarks: pfefferle hasn't updated the Indieweb plugin. He's been a bit busy. That is why I wanted to get his permission to become a manager of the plugin
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KevinMarks what does jean need to do to make the theme work
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KevinMarks she's using Attitude theme
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GWG KevinMarks: The theme work with what? Most themes aren't microformats 2, they only go to microformats.
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GWG KevinMarks: I'm still confused.
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KevinMarks that makes 3 of us ;)
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KevinMarks so, jean set up brid.gy
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KevinMarks then installed the wordpress plugin adn the others
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GWG That will get her rich comments
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KevinMarks is switching themes nondestructive?
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GWG KevinMarks: Mostly.
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KevinMarks she needs to switch to sempress
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KevinMarks ?
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GWG KevinMarks: It is the only fully MF2 compliant theme. But I'm working on that
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KevinMarks she is not impressed with sempress's look
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JRussell LOL, thanks Kevin
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KevinMarks so, the Attitude theme could be updated how?
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GWG KevinMarks: That's why I'm working on a starter theme. So someone more artistic than I...
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GWG KevinMarks: Try installing a plugin called wordpress-uf2
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GWG pfefferle tried his hand at a plugin that would try to add mf2 to any theme
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GWG It's not perfect, but it is closest thing to upgrading without updating the theme, which usually requires editing the theme files or the developer. Not newbie friendly.
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KevinMarks hm
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kylewm you can get quite far with microformats1 these days, can't you?
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KevinMarks except it involves uploading PHP by hand
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KevinMarks o_O
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KevinMarks where do they get uploaded to?
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kylewm bridgy has pretty decent backcompat support (mostly for wordpress themes)
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GWG KevinMarks: The plugins directory
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KevinMarks "oh man I am goign to have to ftp things"
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GWG KevinMarks: This is why after the last time someone was confused, I wanted to become a contributor to the plugins that are in the repository.
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KevinMarks is that in tools?
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GWG Unless your plugin is in the WordPress repository, no one wants to use it.
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paulproteus Hey now everybody now.
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GWG So, as much as I feel my work is not ready for primetime, I'm going to have to put Indieweb Post Kinds, which replaced Indieweb Taxonomy, into the WordPress repository.
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tantek ship early ship often
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GWG tantek: That to me or someone else?
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: welcom everyone to the 1st homebrew meetup of 2015 (twitter.com/_/status/555560496192303105)
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@kylewm2 @RichShumaker Hi, apologies if your reception in #indiewebcamp was a little frosty. They are having a meetup in San… https://kylewm.com/2015/01/richshumaker-hi-apologies-if-your-reception-in-indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/555560517327015937)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: we've been doing it backwards this week with trying to set up sites first; now we can do the whole group thing (twitter.com/_/status/555560645236908032)
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GWG tantek: The questions this evening indicate what I said when I first arrived here...getting set up on WordPress needs to be easier for people
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KartikPrabhu welcome paulproteus!
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I'm Tantek Çelik - my site is http://tantek.com and I recently got working was posting likes to my own site, not twitter (twitter.com/_/status/555560947663011840)
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paulproteus Thanks KartikPrabhu! (-:
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KartikPrabhu everyone seems to be busy at a Homebrew Website club
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I post likes to my own site and I use a service called brid.gy to send likes to the twitter and facebook likes (twitter.com/_/status/555561075299876864)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @dariusdunlap: how do you find something to like? (twitter.com/_/status/555561128236163073)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I like stuff by URL - so the tweet URL or facebook URL can be liked too (twitter.com/_/status/555561242371571712)
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kylewm paulproteus: are you HWC?
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paulproteus tantek: BTW, I have a request for you (I'm that Asheesh guy; we seem to run into each other periodically) -- OK if I send you a private message?
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paulproteus I'm not! I didn't realize there was something going on today!
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: if you look at http://t.co/hmxgIOgYK9, instead of every like as a separate post they show up as list of likes in one post (twitter.com/_/status/555561373837844480)
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paulproteus I'm clearly missing out.
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tantek now we're into the "broadcast" time of HWC at SF
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tantek I just went
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KartikPrabhu paulproteus: this tracks the next meetup: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/next-hwc
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tantek now: Lonnie Rae
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kylewm paulproteus: it's ok, i'm not there either :)
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GWG tantek: There is a broadcast?
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tantek has Lonnierae.com
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GWG Where?
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @LonnieRae: I have http://lonnierae.com - I have been trying to work out some dev stuff; wordpress, squarespace, and ionic (twitter.com/_/status/555561634983604224)
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paulproteus Ah cool!
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tantek tried using wordpress
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tantek trying to figure out how to use webftp
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @LonnieRae: now I'm trying to work out ftp adn move things around (twitter.com/_/status/555561697638121473)
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tantek next: James
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tantek software engineer
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KevinMarks james's URL? twitter?
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tantek explainanalyze.net
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kylewm it works!
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tantek @explain_analyze
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @explain_analyze: I'm James and my site is http://explainanalyse.net (twitter.com/_/status/555562034486870016)
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tantek next: Ben Werd
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tantek s/Werd/Werdmüller
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GWG If anyone on WordPress wants my help,. I'll try.
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Loqi tantek meant to say: next: Ben Werdmüller
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tantek works on Known
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GWG Definitely need a better tutorial.
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tantek one of the first startups to emerge from the indieweb
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tantek does both his own server
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tantek and hosted server for others
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tantek gets best/worst of both worlds
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: It'e been ages since I've been to Homebrew in November - I've been in london and paris (twitter.com/_/status/555562165911175168)
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tantek since last time
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tantek added support for multiple accounts on every social network
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: I build https://withknown.com/ - indieweb startup. Now enabled multiple accounts on twitter, facebook and linkedin (twitter.com/_/status/555562300246360064)
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tantek can syndicate from Known to multiple Twitter, FB, LinkedIn accounts
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tantek one ambition that didn't get done is G+ pages because they didn't approve them
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tantek big thing he did today
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tantek Known has an Export button on every site
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: we don't have @googleplus support because they don't approve us (twitter.com/_/status/555562372212228097)
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tantek it always gave microformats HTML, JSON
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tantek and now also gives a full database dump
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tantek so if you're hosting on a hosted service
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tantek you can take the export
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tantek and plug it into your site if you want
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tantek going to be releasing soon
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: we have an export button on every page that exports HTML, JSON and a full database dump to migrate easily (twitter.com/_/status/555562516152324096)
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@phoenix2life RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @LonnieRae: I have http://lonnierae.com - I have been trying to work out some dev stuff; wordpress, squarespace… (twitter.com/_/status/555562519486816256)
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tantek includes comments
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kylewm benwerd++ that's great!
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Loqi benwerd has 50 karma
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tantek every item, every interaction on every item
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tantek e.g. if you setup Bridgy it will include all of those also
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tantek Twitter/FB interactions, Instagram photos etc.
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: It includes comments, it includes he works - every item and every interaction on the items (twitter.com/_/status/555562654199447554)
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tantek the other thing Ben did
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tantek is he setup animtated gif backgrounds
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tantek has it running on a site
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tantek on his internal test site on his laptop
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: I also set up animated gif backgrounds and I have big animated gif of tom baker as the background of my test site (twitter.com/_/status/555562804355538944)
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tantek next: Nina Finnern
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tantek 8 years old
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tantek and I do not go anywhere
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tantek do you use the web? kind of.
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tantek next: Mark Finnern
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tantek works for SAP
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tantek creates communities for SAP
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tantek one of the handful of people that started the SAP Developer Network
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tantek we are big Jive users
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tantek at SAP I focus on the moment on the SAP mentors
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tantek top community influencers
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tantek one of the most interesting things happening in social for enterprises
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @finnern: I work for SAP and work on the developer network there. I work with SAP mentors - top community influencers (twitter.com/_/status/555563358939000834)
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tantek they are realizing how important their top influencers are
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tantek I bring them together with our executives, who like it because of the unvarnished feedback they get
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tantek on the side I run a future salon where we meet every month
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tantek last we had David Brin
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tantek to talk about transparency
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tantek davidbrin.com
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tantek but apparently he is active on Twitter, FB, G+
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @finnern: I also run the Future Salon, which used to meet monthly - most recently with David Brin of http://davidbrin.com (twitter.com/_/status/555563817309319168)
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tantek the underlying thing we want to do with Future Salon is to create a world that works for all
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tantek which is what IndieWeb is doing
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tantek finnern.com
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tantek uses WordPress
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tantek also futuresalon.org
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tantek which is on TypePad
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tantek and also liveschools
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tantek site for how to bring our schools into the 21st century - ideas in regards to education
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JRussell Aliveschools - http://www.aliveschools.org/
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tantek next: Tina Gillmor
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @finnern: My website is http://finnern.com/ also http:/// (twitter.com/_/status/555564126035271682)
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tantek produces a bunch of tech shows
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tantek Gillmor Gang, and G3
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tantek used to code HTML pages
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tantek haven't done it in a million years
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tantek just wanting to get back into having a web presence
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @TinaGillmor: I produce tech shows Gillmor Gang and G3 - I used to code HTML pages and want to get back to having a web presence (twitter.com/_/status/555564244696322048)
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tantek wanted to see what we're doing here
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charles.stanho.pe edited /IRC_People (+54) "/* Nicknames */ Added cstanhope" (view diff)
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tantek what I should be thinking about
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tantek what kind of tools I should be using
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@benwerd Changed the style on http://werd.io a little. Too much? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/555564305895022593)
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@OhhSocialMedia RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @benwerd: It includes comments, it includes he works - every item and every interaction on the items (twitter.com/_/status/555564398027476992)
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tantek next: Darius Dunlap
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tantek danlaps.net/darius
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tantek also squarepegfoundation.org
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tantek where his wife runs their horse rescuse and horsemanship program for kids
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tantek s/rescuse/rescue
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Loqi tantek meant to say: where his wife runs their horse rescue and horsemanship program for kids
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @dariusdunlap: my site is https://dunlaps.net/darius and http://squarepegfoundation.org where we work with kids and horses (twitter.com/_/status/555564615288233984)
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tantek have a bunch of stuff going on
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tantek getting indieweb stuff into squarepegfoudnation
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tantek personal site is coming up for annual hosting renewal
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tantek has to decide if he wants to stick with his current host
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tantek current host does not do SNI
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tantek which means a lot of the HTTPS-everything stuff doesn't all work
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tantek which he wants to do
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @dariusdunlap: My personal site is up for hosting renewal, and I can't do HTTPS on my current host, so help needed there (twitter.com/_/status/555564841847771136)
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tantek next: Kevin Marks
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tantek kevinmarks.com
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tantek posted New Clues on his own site
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tantek it is the anniversary (15 year) of the Cluetrain Manifesto
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indie-visitor New clues: http://cluetrain.com/newclues/
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tantek became two books
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@phoenix2life RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @finnern: My website is http://finnern.com/ also http:/// (twitter.com/_/status/555565104285356032)
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tantek he reposted New Clues on this own site
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tantek so he could show how webmentions and fragmentions work
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tantek to reference individual paragraphs etc.
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tantek and also recently they were all on the Gillmore Gang discussing this
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tantek as part of this, updated to new version of webmention.heroku.com
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tantek now gets facepiles
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tantek and gets better reposts
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tantek and comments too
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tantek next: Jean Russell
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tantek partner: Mark
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tantek first time at HWC
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tantek has two locations Illinois and here (SF)
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tantek works with Kaliya
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tantek wrote a book in the last year
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @NurtureGirl: I'm Jean Russell - I live in Illinois and here part time- I work with @IdentityWoman and also write books (twitter.com/_/status/555565683749433347)
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tantek that includes one of Kevin's blog posts for designing for social flows
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tantek one of her big projects is thrivability
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tantek has her own website
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @NurtureGirl: I wrote @thrivability over the past few years; and also now publishing Designing Social Flows (twitter.com/_/status/555565834815688704)
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JRussell jeanmrussell.com
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tantek on twitter @nurturegirl
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simonv3 (sorry this is incredibly interesting but I have no idea what's going on right now, where can I find out more?)
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tantek simonv3 - see indiewebcamp.com
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paulproteus http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-14-homebrew-website-club it seems
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @NurtureGirl: I have http://thrivability.net and also http://jeanmrussell.com and am trying to set up indieweb and brid,gy support (twitter.com/_/status/555566075790643200)
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tantek used to run a website design company in 2000-2001. familiar with HTML.
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simonv3 (ah sweet, cheers!)
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tantek board chair of grass commons, producer of wagon.org wiki database product
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @NurtureGirl: I used to run a web design company back in 2002 and know web but not code code (twitter.com/_/status/555566227478020096)
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tantek now more topics
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tantek challenges of using FTP with Dreamhost
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JRussell wagon.org is actually wagn.org
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tantek figure out what "host" to use to login - it's not obvious
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JRussell CORRECTION: #indieweb @NurtureGirl: I have http://thrivable.net htttp://thrivable.org and also http://jeanmrussell.com and am trying to set up indieweb and brid,gy support (twtr.io/v7gp61cRL0)
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indie-visitor My education web site: http://aliveschools.org/ not done a lot on there lately
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tantek welcome indie-visitor - use /nick yournamehere to change your name!
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tantek benwerd: web hosts default to php 5.3 by default
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finnern @tantek I tried before, but it didn't work, but now I guess it stuck.
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tantek yay!
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Loqi :D
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tantek what is dropbox?
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Loqi Dropbox is a file hosting web service https://indiewebcamp.com/Dropbox
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @NurtureGirl: CORRECTION I have http://thrivable.net htttp://thrivable.org as well as http://www.jeanmrussell.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/555567235348312064)
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millette notes that php 5.3 is unsupported since august 2014
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benwerd (It actually isn't - the latest version of PHP 5.3 is still supported for a while yet. Just not updated. I made that mistake too.)
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 9 hours, 15 minutes ago: perhaps you should respond to Anil Dash, letting him know you've built a tool that works. https://twitter.com/anildash/status/555408559450906624 and ask for your millions of dollars ;)
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 9 hours, 14 minutes ago: nevermind I see you took care of it 20+ minutes ago :)
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millette http://php.net/archive/2014.php#id2014-08-14-1
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millette Hi, I'm new to the channel but not the spirit (I was one of the laconica devs). Wondering if there is interest in this community for CouchDB/PouchDB.
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KevinMarks ok, so now we have installed all these plugins, how dow e tell if it's working, GWG
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KevinMarks s/dow e/do we/
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Loqi KevinMarks meant to say: ok, so now we have installed all these plugins, how do we tell if it's working, GWG
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Jay- neat little javascript-based search index: http://lunrjs.com (cc tantek)
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GWG KevinMarks: Which one? If you want to test webmentions...create a post with a link to another site in the post body, and it will automatically send a webmention
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GWG KevinMarks: If you want to receive, have someone do the same in reverse
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GWG Sorry for the delay, computer issues
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KevinMarks hm
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KevinMarks tried that http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/welcome-to-the-indieweb-jean
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GWG Can you check one more thing for me?
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KevinMarks sure
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GWG In the WordPress admin, under discussion...tell me if "Allow link notifications from other blogs" is enabled
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KevinMarks yes, that is enabled
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KevinMarks do manual comment approvals get triggered?
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GWG Manual Comment Approvals?
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GWG If you have moderation enabled, then webmentions will come as moderated comments
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millette somebody pulled the plug
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@TheClassicAlice #WackyWednesday ends in just two hours! Have you jumped in?! https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/classic-alice-books-8-beyond #indiegogo #indieweb #webserieschat (twitter.com/_/status/555574422036180992)
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@inspirartion you might enjoy this http://inspirationalshit.com/artmuseum @DedraMuhammad: See the #WillyLynch syndrome in full effect in this play. #IndieAuth... (twitter.com/_/status/555595532362850305)
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snarfed woo, finished my ownyourgram clone for facebook checkins
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snarfed (described in https://snarfed.org/indie-checkin-flow#automate )
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snarfed https://github.com/snarfed/ownyourcheckin
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@omarirose Ride with me !!!!! New song new sound !!!!! Take a listen #promo #blogger #indieweb #indiemusic (twitter.com/_/status/555625423246065664)
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@IndieMusicBot RT @omarirose: Ride with me !!!!! New song new sound !!!!! Take a listen #promo #blogger #indieweb #indiemusic (twitter.com/_/status/555627229678686208)
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KartikPrabhu indieweb confused with indiemusic ^
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@inspirartion you might enjoy this http://inspirationalshit.com/artmuseum @DedraMuhammad: See the #WillyLynch syndrome in full effect in this play. #IndieAuth... (twitter.com/_/status/555633324874797056)
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KartikPrabhu alos not indieauth it is indieauthor though ^
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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RichShumaker I had a question about H-Entry and where it needs to be in the code as I want to insert one into my TiddlyWiki
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RichShumaker I will try to come back as I have a feeling I am the only one up. Have a great night if you read this.
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KartikPrabhu but but I am up!
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Loqi [mention] http://robin.millette.info/indie-fed-web linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/why-fr (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://robin.millette.info/indie-fed-web linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Main_Page-fr (webmention)
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Loqi [bridgy] Christophe Ducamp favorited a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/ind.ie#not-indieweb (https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/555111508385234945)
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@iamaegibson looks like i'm back on the #indieweb https://aaronegibson.com/s/26G8Q (twitter.com/_/status/555643756523708416)
simonv3, alanpearce, KartikPrabhu, verdi_, glennjones, cweiske, pfefferle, tantek, petermolnar, myfreeweb, sanduhrs, friedcell, loic_m, stream7, julien51, csarven and Rev_Illo joined the channel
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@wpmakecomments [Core] Comment on Feature plugins in 4.2 and beyond by dshanske https://make.wordpress.org/core/2015/01/13/feature-plugins-in-4-2-and-beyond/#comment-24879 Webmention Who’s Responsible: The plugin was de... (twitter.com/_/status/555695264460455936)
michielbdejong, sanduhrs, barryf, glennjones, KartikPrabhu, petermolnar, fahrstuhl, mlncn, eschnou, friedcell, verdi_, pfefferle, simonv3 and prtksxna joined the channel
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GWG pfefferle: Can we speak re the Indieweb plugin?
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pfefferle sure
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Loqi pfefferle: GWG left you a message 12 hours, 40 minutes ago: I'd like to become authorized to contribute to the WordPress Indieweb Plugin.
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GWG I know you've been busy lately, and last night when they had the HWC meeting in San Francisco, a lot of people were having trouble getting started with WordPress and understanding what to do.
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pfefferle GWG it seems that I have to write something to get messages from loqi… good to know :)
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GWG I thought by expanding the plugin, which is a new person's intro to adding support...
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GWG pfefferle: Correct on the Loqi front
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pfefferle GWG you already are a contibutor…
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GWG pfefferle: kylewm set me up last night to join the Github group. Was wondering if you wanted help with the pushing to the Wordpress.org repository and keeping that up to date
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pfefferle GWG sure… feel free to contribute/update the plugin…
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pfefferle GWG I will also add you to the wordpress directory
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pfefferle GWG how is your username on wp.org
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GWG pfefferle: Thanks. I realized last night that the best way to help people is that plugin....It is advertised as the JetPack of Indieweb
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GWG pfefferle: dshanske
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pfefferle GWG ok, done
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GWG pfefferle: Thank you. I will keep you posted on anything I do.
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pfefferle GWG thanks and please have a look at your indents ;)
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GWG pfefferle: Indents?
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pfefferle is there no plural of indent?
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GWG pfefferle: I meant...what do you mean?
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GWG I assumed you meant my indenting in code, but I'm not sure the context.
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pfefferle code indent (spaces/tabs)
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GWG Am I doing something wrong in that regard?
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GWG I've been indenting code that way since my Pascal days...which may be the problem
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pfefferle GWG ”žwrong“ is a hard word… you are sometimes a bit lazy regarding indents
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GWG Ok
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pfefferle GWG ;)
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pfefferle GWG but I am very happy that you are willing to contibute… because I am not the best person when it comes to english description ;)
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pfefferle GWG++
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Loqi GWG has 52 karma
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GWG pfefferle: My next step, by the way, is to figure out how to instantly explain to someone who knows nothing how to get started within the plugin
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GWG So far, in the last few days, I've had three conversations that go...
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pfefferle GWG yes, I also was asked on twitter
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GWG "I want to add Indieweb to my WordPress site. What do I do?"
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GWG "Well, what do you want to be able to do?"
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GWG I think I need to break it into pieces
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GWG Webmention support is easy, just add the plugin, check to enable the linkback setting...done
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pfefferle GWG yes, thats the main problem… to tell people the exact use of a plugin…
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GWG pfefferle: On an unrelated yet related note, I want to give you a contributor credit on something
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GWG pfefferle: I put a lot of your code into mf2_s
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pfefferle GWG your welcome ;)
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GWG pfefferle: I consider it backporting
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GWG I want people to be able to build mf2 themes with support for your plugins
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pfefferle GWG that was my main intention for SemPress, but I lost the focus a bit
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GWG pfefferle: I'm trying to keep with the starter theme idea of underscores. It is meant to be hacked apart and styled.
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GWG When I feel it is 'done', I will be putting together a theme on top of it
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pfefferle GWG nice idea!
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GWG pfefferle: I have a lot of ideas. I hope that I can pull them all off
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pfefferle GWG ideas are not the problem… most of the time ;)
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GWG Agreed.
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GWG pfefferle: What ideas are you thinking about?
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GWG petermolnar: I saw you nominated webmentions and semantic linkbacks for core
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petermolnar yep
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GWG petermolnar: I added some supporting comments
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petermolnar thank you :)
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pfefferle GWG yes thanks… my WordPress.org Notifications thingy told me :)
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petermolnar yeah, I just but my ideas in and not played the reasoning well enough, so thank you for stepping in
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petermolnar s/but/put
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Loqi petermolnar meant to say: yeah, I just put my ideas in and not played the reasoning well enough, so thank you for stepping in
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GWG I think it should be framed as a call for better linkbacks
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GWG WordPress hates getting rid of things
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GWG Basically...
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dariusdunlap By the way, I was at HWC last night and fielded some of the questions about Wordpress.
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GWG dariusdunlap: Great.
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dariusdunlap .. and I’m going to be making a decision in the next few days myself as to whether to stick with it. (THinking I probably will)
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GWG dariusdunlap: It has prompted me to want to add that info to the wiki in a better way and to the Indieweb plugin
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dariusdunlap I’ll have a look and endeavor to help out as I’m working through the process of rebuilding on a new webhost.
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dariusdunlap In trying to help people, I realize that I hadn’t really done much with this stuff on my site for a few months and I wasn’t sure about things. Ended up relyin gon the wiki. :-)
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GWG dariusdunlap: Feel free to help rewrite the /WordPress page
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dariusdunlap yes, I will update things and try to make things more clear where I can.
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dariusdunlap Also on the /Hosting page.
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GWG dariusdunlap: I want to rearrange the page so the instructions for existing WordPress sites are up top, and how to set up a WordPress site if you don't have one moves lower
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dariusdunlap Yeah, I was just looking it over and it definitely needs some re-organaing.
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ben_thatmustbeme hey guys
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dariusdunlap There are lots of nerdy, “and you’ll also want a frazmatazz, so you’ll have to set up the dinklehood” sort of stuff.
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dariusdunlap Hiya Ben!
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ben_thatmustbeme now theres a quote
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ben_thatmustbeme has anyone yet to get a micropub plugin working for WP?
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ben_thatmustbeme that would be pretty cool
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dariusdunlap GWG: I think the “starting up a Wordpress Blog” might even be a separate page.
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ben_thatmustbeme !tell aaronpk continuing brainstorming on MP, what do you think about just one single request to MPEndpoint for all supported features. would return syndicate-to, files[] (for filetypes supported) and perhaps any/all fields it looks for
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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dariusdunlap GWG: or at least have sections that are references from an overview right at the top, so that it’s easy to jump to the right info.
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@kevinmarks “Like metaphors, algorithms are simplifications, or distortions. They are caricatures.” @ibogost http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/01/the-cathedral-of-computation/384300/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/555756918262992898)
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GWG dariusdunlap: I want as much frazmatazz as I can get
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: No one has even started one
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ben_thatmustbeme that makes me sad
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GWG Me too
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GWG I don't feel I can tackle that one as a 'lead'.
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GWG Maybe as a supporting character
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GWG Also, unless you use my Post Kinds plugin, there is no 'reply' status in WordPress
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GWG So, it becomes a dependency
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GWG And not everyone who uses WordPress uses my plugin
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kylewm GWG: I don't know how to write a plugin for wordpress but i'd be happy to collaborate on the micropub logic, i've written it a couple times now
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GWG kylewm: See the above issue I haven't worked out in my mind
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dariusdunlap I’m all about the frazmatazz, but sometimes you’ve got to give a clear explanation of the conenction to the dinklhood that’s (hopefully) helpful to people who don’t already know.
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kylewm why is 'reply' a dependency of micropub?
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gRegor` What's a reply status? Something that is in-reply-to?
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kylewm also I noticed that snarfed's OwnYourCheckins plugin uses the jetpack api (public-api.wordpress.com)... I'm assuming that the micropub plugin can't do that?
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kylewm correction -- OwnYourCheckins not a plugin
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voxpelli A thought: Have anyone implemented "likes" or such for WebMentions/comments on their sites?
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pfefferle voxpelli the semantic linkbacks plugin for wordpress is supporting likes
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pfefferle voxpelli https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-semantic-linkbacks#what-about-the-semantic-comment-types
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voxpelli pfefferle: So there can be a WebMention for a WebMention basically? :)
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pfefferle yes
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pfefferle but therefore you need another plugin
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pfefferle voxpelli https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention-for-comments
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pfefferle this allows threaded webmention conversations
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voxpelli that sounds awesome – I wonder what I need to do to enable such stuff in my WebMention endpoint
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pfefferle voxpelli you can answer a comment via a webmention and the comment on this mention is sent back as webmention and so on
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voxpelli pfefferle: do you use a hash for identifying the comment or do the comment has its own URL?
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voxpelli Do you import comments on comments from the commenter themselves
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pfefferle voxpelli the comment has his own url (to be compatible to all other implementations)
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pfefferle voxpelli not if they are not sent as webmentions
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voxpelli ok, hmm, amazing stuff this, need to think more about it
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dariusdunlap tell kevinmarks: That Bogost piece starts out such that I was thinking, “oh, jeez,, here we go”, but then he wraps it up rather nicely at the end. So now I get that his audience isn’t those who understand computation, but rather the techno-illiterate that fetishize “algorithms” and “Big Data”.
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GWG kylewm: WordPress by default doesn't support some of the things MicroPub hooks into. You'd need a subet
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GWG in-reply-to, repost-of, syndication...
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GWG So, you'd have to ignore those unless they were supported.
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GWG So, note posting could be enabled more easily
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kylewm sure, that is how micropub works in general... you don't have to support every possible mf2 field to support micropub
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GWG kylewm: Does Micropub support alternative authentication methods?
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gRegor` I still maintain WordPress custom fields are a fine place to start for all the 'meta' mf2 info
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kylewm GWG: indieauth-the-protocol but doesn't have to be indieauth.com. I think it could work with most OAuth2 providers
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kylewm that's sort of an educated guess btw... i haven't tried to use it with anything but indieauth.com
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GWG kylewm: Only because I would like a fallback to authentication directly with the site itself.
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GWG gRegor`: I prefer a custom taxonomy myself
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gRegor` But the custom taxonomy doesn't support in-reply-to?
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GWG gRegor`: Mine does
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GWG gRegor`: A custom taxonomy has to be registered, like post metadata, which is a custom field.
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GWG gRegor`: That's what the plugin I developed does. It adds that
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GWG Then it stores the URL in the post meta
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GWG So, the relationship is defined as a taxonomy, what it relates to is in the post itself
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@benwerd @dangillmor Bringing indieweb to that world hopefully makes it more palatable. POSSE to Blackboard and its cousins. (twitter.com/_/status/555775023470743553)
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GWG By making it a taxonomy, you can create archives of likes/replies/etc.
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gRegor` The micropub plugin should be able to respond with what the WordPress install supports then
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GWG gRegor`: Exactly
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GWG Does Micropub support a request for what an endpoint supports?
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kylewm no but ben_thatmustbeme is pushing for that
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kylewm honestly i think that is a perilous road, starting to sound like architecture astronomy
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GWG kylewm: How so?
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danlyke kylewm, a "what indieweb itch should I scratch next" question: What would make it easier for you to comment on by blog via indieweb protocols than by the login on my site?
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kylewm like it just increases complexity immensely if the client has to query the endpoint for what it can support and then tailor its user interface based on some subset of fields
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danlyke (I've got other personal projects I'm scratching too, it's just that this is the first "hey, here's a real opportunity!" moment I've had...)
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aaronpk good morning
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kylewm for right now the use-cases can all be handled by just using the client that supports the thing you want to do :)
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Loqi aaronpk: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 1 hour, 27 minutes ago: continuing brainstorming on MP, what do you think about just one single request to MPEndpoint for all supported features. would return syndicate-to, files[] (for filetypes supported) and perhaps any/all fields it looks for
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kylewm danlyke: hmm, can I comment on your blog via indieweb protocols already?
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aaronpk good timing :)
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aaronpk kylewm: agreed
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danlyke kylewm I think so... We did that test, and if I'm not dealing with webmentions right then I should fix it. I have the indie-action tag in place, and the <link rel="webmention"...> in the header...
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kylewm danlyke: then i'll start doing that! i don't think you need to change anything
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danlyke And I don't mention this in a "you should", I mention this as a "how can I make it more convenient for us to eat our own dogfood". Because, as tantek keeps harping on, we need to make it as easy or easier...
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danlyke And meanwhile, I need to get my client code going.
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tantek checks logs
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
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aaronpk morning!
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tantek danlyke: indeed, making such (cross-site) interactions easier is one of the key challenges for the indieweb as a whole
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tantek it's an area where silo UX is still (sometimes much) better
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danlyke tantek yep! And this was a particular "hey, here's a very precise use case we can investigate and hopefully solve" example.
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tantek I'm very interested to hear how kylewm's attempt to use the <indie-action> buttons on danlyke's site to reply goes.
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voxpelli Same here!
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tantek the "make replying easier" use-case / user-scenario we (benwerd, myself, aaronpk, bret) identified as a key problem to solve for the indieweb back at the 2013 Social Web Workshop!
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tantek what is the 2013 Social Web Workshop
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "2013 Social Web Workshop" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=2013+Social+Web+Workshop
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voxpelli danlyke: got a link to the indie-action implementation?
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tantek (I keep forgetting its name so I keep approximating, then I'll keep creating redirects to the actual)
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aaronpk was that the w3c one?
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tantek.com created /2013_Social_Web_Workshop (+25) "r" (view diff)
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aaronpk ah yes
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tantek.com edited /2013/osfw3c (+117) "expand dfn" (view diff)
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@BommScienceGLHS Zombie Cookie: The Tracking Cookie That You Can’t Kill - ProPublica http://www.propublica.org/article/zombie-cookie-the-tracking-cookie-that-you-cant-kill the future of tracking! #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/555782072925958146)
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tantek.com edited /2013/osfw3c (-21) "p-summary needs to be of the h-entry, so make the whole h-event the p-summary" (view diff)
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danlyke voxpelli: I just put the indie-action tag in my web forms, I haven't actually got the whole Greasemonkey browser integration thing working.
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tantek.com edited /friendly (+196) "/* Friendly Services */ add a stub for withknown" (view diff)
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danlyke My site is www.flutterby.com, if you want to test pick something somewhat apropos, like maybe http://www.flutterby.com/archives/comments/20207.html ...
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tantek re: zombie cookie - this is pretty messed up: http://www.propublica.org/article/zombie-cookie-the-tracking-cookie-that-you-cant-kill
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voxpelli danlyke: interesting fallback! with an entire form within the indie-action button
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@marinintim Want to build #indieweb compatible site on weekend. (twitter.com/_/status/555788114481127425)
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tantek more on zombie cookie: http://www.propublica.org/article/somebodys-already-using-verizons-id-to-track-users
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tantek some choice quotes:
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tantek "Inserting the identifiers requires the telecom carrier to modify the information that flows out of a user's phone. AT&T's patent acknowledges that it would be impossible to insert the identifier into web traffic if it were encrypted using HTTPS, but offers an easy solution – to instruct web servers to force phones to use an unencrypted connection."
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tantek ***to instruct web servers to force phones to use an unencrypted connection***
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ben_thatmustbeme wow
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tantek FYI: https://twitter.com/kennwhite/status/525110471733817344
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@kennwhite Confirmed on new test server: Verizon injects device-level tracking headers to *all* sites I visit, despite opt out. https://twitter.com/kennwhite/status/525110471733817344/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/525110471733817344)
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ben_thatmustbeme hello, have they not heard of ummm... oh, whats the word, oh yeah SECURITY
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benwerd Just want to put this here, too: I'm excited that Sandstorm is getting some real traction. I think there's some great implications for indieweb tech. (tantek and I briefly discussed this last night.) https://blog.sandstorm.io/news/2015-01-15-sandstorm-1.3M-seed-round-pay-it-forward.html
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tantek oh neat - anyone here use verizon? try http://uidh.crud.net/
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tantek and http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/10/verizon-wireless-injects-identifiers-link-its-users-to-web-requests/
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kylewm whoa, I do use verizon, and confirm that they inserted that header...
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tantek kylewm - apparently you are a number
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tantek anyone here use Comcast and/or Comcast wifi hotpots? http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/09/why-comcasts-javascript-ad-injections-threaten-security-net-neutrality/
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GWG "I am not a number! I am a free man!!"
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tantek GWG exactly the reference
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tantek so here's a question, can a page "fight" such injection of JS?
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GWG "I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My life is my own."11
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tantek shows GWG the exit out of The Village.
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tantek re: Comcast JS injection: "One way to prevent this from happening, he said, is for websites to encrypt and serve over HTTPS. But many sites do not do that."
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tantek what is https?
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Loqi HTTPS is an abbreviation for Hypertext Transfer Protocol Secure, a protocol for secure communication, supported by web servers (like Apache & nginx) and browsers https://indiewebcamp.com/HTTPS
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tantek looks like another entry for https://indiewebcamp.com/HTTPS#Why
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bencell http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/why-you-should-check-your-verizon-wireless-privacy-settings-right-f1C6370918
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ben_thatmustbeme when i visited that crud.net link you posted, they gave that link
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kylewm danlyke: i tried replying to you here https://kylewm.com/2015/01/it-s-a-very-interesting-question-how-to-attract-people
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GWG tantek: Are you Number 2?
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ben_thatmustbeme WOW, so I checked my settings on myverizon. I long ago said to not share my "CPNI"... it has been that way for some time, but you know what, the X-UIDH is still sent to servers
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: that is what the article describes.
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ben_thatmustbeme lovely, i see these things come up so much, that i'm used to glossing over it and just going through to say 'do not track me'
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ben_thatmustbeme but that is definitely a new one
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tantek I wonder if a Verizon mifi sends that header for all requests
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tantek or if using a Verizon mifi instead of a Verizon phone is a workaround for this.
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aaronpk i'm guessing it sends it as well since it's on the same cell network
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kylewm snarfed++ congrats on launching https://github.com/snarfed/ownyourcheckin ... are there any example checkins up yet?
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Loqi snarfed has 74 karma
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snarfed kylewm: thanks! not yet, no. haven't been anywhere checkin-worthy in the last few days :P
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: since your site *requires* HTTPS - you should be able to check from your server if it is seeing the X-UIDH header from your phone!
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tantek and *theoretically* your server (by requiring HTTPS) SHOULD NOT see any X-UIDH headers
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tantek might be worth testing.
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ben_thatmustbeme well, i could, because a call to http:// redirects to https, but i could capture it then
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ben_thatmustbeme and confirmed, over https i am not getting that when on https
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aaronpk tantek: my phone is sending the UIDH header when I'm tethered to it
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aaronpk (I went to http://uidh.crud.net/ on my computer but i'm tethered right now)
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ben_thatmustbeme damn
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Loqi lolz
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ben_thatmustbeme http://students.cs.uri.edu/~ben/test.php I just dump the whole _SERVER string, and that page works over http or https so you can verify
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ben_thatmustbeme and see if its adding anything else
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aaronpk yup I don't see it over https
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snarfed (kylewm: fwiw, ownyourcheckin checkins will look just like previous manual ones, eg https://snarfed.org/2014-12-27_12198 )
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tantek thanks for the confirmation aaronpk, ben_thatmustbeme. now documenting.
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ben_thatmustbeme no problem
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kylewm !tell danlyke I got a response "Bad webmention request" for https://kylewm.com/2015/01/it-s-a-very-interesting-question-how-to-attract-people
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ben_thatmustbeme verizon does not send it on our terribly slow work network connection
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ben_thatmustbeme so its only wireless
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ben_thatmustbeme but that doesn't really matter i suppose because of IP
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tantek.com created /Template:benthatmust (+19) "templateception" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /HTTPS (+1570) "/* Why */ expand Publishing integrity with detail about requiring HTTPS, add Reduce carrier level tracking e.g. Verizon X-UIDH" (view diff)
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tantek btw ben_thatmustbeme I linked to https://students.cs.uri.edu/~ben/test.php from the Why section of HTTPs
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tantek so anytime you want to check that stuff - just remember to go to indiewebcamp.com/https#Why
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tantek and it has all the links
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tantek.com edited /HTTPS (+138) "/* Why */ add separate secure link to check" (view diff)
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danlyke kylewm: It looks like I'm looking for the "vouch" param even though I'm not using it. That's the message returned if there isn't a "vouch", "source" and "target" message. And, yes, I should use 4xx codes for this.
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Loqi danlyke: kylewm left you a message 12 minutes ago: I got a response "Bad webmention request" for https://kylewm.com/2015/01/it-s-a-very-interesting-question-how-to-attract-people
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danlyke errr... if there isn't a "vouch", "source" and "target" field specified in the request parameters.
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danlyke I'll untangle myself from my language eventually...
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GWG kylewm: I've been thinking about your micropub offer
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tantek.com edited /HTTPS (+24) "/* Why */ make the test call-to-action more explicitly visible" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /HTTPS (+160) "/* Why */ add zombie cookie article for another reference" (view diff)
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tantek hmm, it looks like to use lunr.js (http://lunrjs.com/) to implement client-side search I have to upgrade my @Falcon storage reading code from PHP to CASSIS.
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tantek gets 3 levels deep in wiki page editing dependencies.
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tantek who is doing what with "search" on their personal sites?
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aaronpk what is search?
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Loqi search in the context of the IndieWeb refers to being able to search your personal site for your own content https://indiewebcamp.com/search
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ben_thatmustbeme i am just using google's search of my own site
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danlyke I have an ancient slow search ('WHERE text ILIKE ...;). Need to just tweak a few Postgres parameters and change it to use text indices, which I should probably do.
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: with results on google.com or wrapped on your own site?
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ben_thatmustbeme on google
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ben_thatmustbeme it just copies their query to google.com with site:ben.thatmustbe.me
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aaronpk mine does that too
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tantek yeah that's level 2 - I do that too
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tantek however Google's index of my site has become *horrible* for posts in the past year
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tantek they're missing a lot
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tantek in the past year or so
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millette tantek, do you have a sitemap.xml ? (just curious)
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tantek e.g. per yesterday discussion - Google wouldn't show me my notes where I replied to @anildash
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tantek no sitemap.xml - but I do use PuSH to notify Google's PuSH server
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tantek on every post
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tantek so they're getting it all in realtime
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tantek no need for sitemap crawl/polling nonsense
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aaronpk funny, google has my post from yesterday indexed already
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aaronpk oddly, using the query parameters to make google show results in reverse date order causes it to not show my post from 2010
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aaronpk compare https://www.google.com/search?q=taxi&as_sitesearch=aaronparecki.com&tbs=sbd%3A1%2Ccdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F1999 vs https://www.google.com/search?q=taxi&as_sitesearch=aaronparecki.com
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aaronpk much more content shows up without the sort order parameters
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aaronpk this makes me want to have my own search
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tantek aaronpk - yeah
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tantek definitely itching
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aaronpk I appear to be in not as bad a state with google as you though
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gRegor` tantek: I don't know much about push. Is your push to google documented on the wiki or your site so I can read up?
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tantek.com edited /IndieMark (+510) "add explicit search requirements to Level 3 and Level 4, thoughts on what Level 5 search could be" (view diff)
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tantek what is push?
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Loqi PubSubHubbub (PuSH) is a notification-based protocol for publishing and subscribing to feeds/streams in real time https://indiewebcamp.com/PuSH
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tantek gRegor`: ^^^ and more if you search /Falcon for references to "PuSH"
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tantek.com created /Template:barnabywalters (+130) "create since I'm using" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /Template:emmak (+124) "create since I'm using" (view diff)
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gRegor` So when you say you're pushing to google, you're sending it to https://pubsubhubbub.appspot.com/ hub?
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tantek.com edited /search (+320) "move why to top, clean up a bit, add levels, add new client side search section with possible how to" (view diff)
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: could you add yourself / site to http://indiewebcamp.com/search#IndieWeb_Examples ?
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tantek danlyke, aaronpk, could you two also add yourselves/sites to http://indiewebcamp.com/search#IndieWeb_Examples ?
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tantek gRegor`: correct
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rhiaro is making plans for IWC in Edinburgh, probably in July
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gRegor` Interesting. I would not have thought they'd be using that to update search
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GWG rhiaro: Sounds fun. Did you book tantek yet?
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benwerd rhiaro: oh man.
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rhiaro I've got as far as getting committment from a co-organiser
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benwerd rhiaro: I am so tempted.
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+57) "/* Feeds */ add detail of using Google's appspot PuSH hub" (view diff)
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rhiaro Which I felt is enough progress to announce in here :)
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rhiaro benwerd: please do!
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tantek gRegor`: they were over a year ago! My posts used to show up in Google *normal* search results in less than a second after I published them on my site
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tantek it was amazing
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tantek but at somepoint they dropped it
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GWG I've always wanted to visit Scotland
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tantek they never "officially" announced/confirmed that they were showing realtime results in "normal" search
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rhiaro GWG: where are you based?
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tantek rhiaro: committment from a co-organiser is absolutely necessary first step. next: a venue commitment / sponsorship.
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rhiaro venue is easy, brainstorming sponsorship
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tantek what is 2015/Edinburgh?
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tantek what is 2015 Edinburgh?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "2015 Edinburgh" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=2015+Edinburgh
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rhiaro I'm sure I'd made a page
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rhiaro Oh maybe I just added it to the 2015 page
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aaronparecki.com edited /search (+353) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add myself" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /2015_Edinburgh (+28) "r" (view diff)
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tantek rhiaro: https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=2015/Edinburgh&action=edit&redlink=1 :)
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rhiaro thanks tantek :)
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benwerd Literally any excuse to come back to Edinburgh. But IWC is a great one.
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GWG rhiaro: New York. But I was in Northern Ireland in October...during Hurricane Gonzalo. I hear Scotland was hit worse.
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www.flutterby.net user:danlyke edited /search (+398) "Added search implementations by danlyke" (view diff)
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www.flutterby.net user:danlyke created /Template:danlyke (+171) "Adding template for Dan Lyke" (view diff)
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rhiaro GWG: I was away most of October, so I missed that. We're getting the tailend of a big storm at the moment though I think. It's pretty damn windy, anyway.
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rhiaro but Edinburgh is so beautiful, even the weather can't cover it up :)
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GWG rhiaro: I don't come to Europe often. IWC seems a good excuse
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JarOfGreen Hello from Edinburgh
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aaronpk hello!
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rhiaro Hey JarOfGreen
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rhiaro Maybe we could time IWC Edinburgh with the start of the Fringe Festival, to give people even more excuse to come from afar
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tantek welcome JarOfGreen!
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danlyke tantek, thanks for the kick on search, just updated my code to actually use PostgreSQL's text indexes rather than a linear regex search of all entries...
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tantek danlyke++ awesome!
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Loqi danlyke has 14 karma
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JarOfGreen could do, what other festivals would end July, early Aug be on with? Jazz I think. accomodation more expensive maybe
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+1743) "/* Itches */ re-order a bit, add client side search" (view diff)
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rhiaro Good point about accommodation
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rhiaro JarOfGreen: Fringe doesn't start til 7th August, and I'm in Berlin that week
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rhiaro Probably end of July, and then people can stay for the Fringe if they want
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rhiaro But without actual overlap
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rhiaro 25/26 works best for me
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rhiaro ping tbrb: how do you feel about 25/26 July for indiewebcamp?
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tbrb sounds good
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rhiaro Other people: what's your experience with IWC on weekdays vs weekend?
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rhiaro We can get a venue for free on a weekday, but concerned about people with jobs etc..
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tantek rhiaro: all those considerations / adjancencies are worth capturing on /2015/Edinburgh !
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rhiaro Okay :) I'm updating it now
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tantek use it as a planning page for all this stuff
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@xtof_fr Panel sur "Le Design Calme" Mercredi prochain 19h00 á la gaité lyrique > https://stample.co/webwewant Débat ouvert sur #calmdesign et #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/555823574334709760)
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rhiaro.co.uk created /2015/Edinburgh (+1486) "Planning begins" (view diff)
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JarOfGreen weekends vs week tend to have very diff feels to me. I'd have said weekend was better, attract more of the local/nearby ppl who maybe couldn't get time of work for this kind of thing?
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rhiaro Yes, maybe could do a straw poll at next TMU
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JarOfGreen yeah
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /2015/ (+26) "Add Edinburgh" (view diff)
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tantek rhiaro++ for planning IWC Edinburgh!
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Loqi rhiaro has 7 karma
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tantek JarOfGreen: yes traditionally we've done Sat/Sun weekends for IWC for that reason
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tantek though it is not a requirement
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rhiaro tantek: I'm doing a talk about indiewebcamp at February's TechMeetup here
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tantek rhiaro: awesome! please add that talk/meetup to our /events page!
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rhiaro I wanted to be able to invite people to an event
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tantek sounds like a great forcing function :)
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tantek exception to the weekends thing: we're doing IWC Cambridge ThF this year
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tantek just after the Social Web WG f2f
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rhiaro That's what threw me about weekday vs weekend, I wasn't sure if Cambridge was an exception or if it varied
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rhiaro I booked my flights btw :)
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rhiaro Staying 13th-26th
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paulproteus Howdy crystal_! I'm Asheesh -- I think we met at Open Source Bridge, years ago!
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tantek rhiaro: flights for Cambridge?
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rhiaro yes
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tantek nice!
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rhiaro Now I need to start begging for places to stay :)
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rhiaro I have somewhere for the first 5 or so days
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /Events (+365) "/* Upcoming */" (view diff)
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tantek oh I just realized with IWC Edinburgh, looks like our usual IWC UK will have to get renamed to IWC Brighton!
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tantek (assuming adactio is up for hosting / co-organizing again)
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rhiaro We could have IWCScot and IWCEng
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tantek might as well go straight to cities like the others
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rhiaro It would be so much easier if we just had independence
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rhiaro #indiescot
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tantek lol
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tantek are they going to do that referendum again?
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rhiaro I hope so, but I'm not sure how feasible that is
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rhiaro I think part of the deal to get it in the first place was not to have another one for at least a decade
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tantek makes sense - time to build more support for it til then
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rhiaro If there was one next year I think it'd be a yes, after what UK gov't has done in the last few months
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rhiaro ie gone back on everything they said they'd do in the event of a No
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benwerd wakes up
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benwerd JarOfGreen was here! Awesome.
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tantek.com edited /Events (+73) "IWC Brighton - renaming IWC UK now that we have Edinburgh!" (view diff)
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rhiaro benwerd: I'm talking him into helping with IWCEd
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benwerd Nice!
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rhiaro As well as putting webmention into OpenTechCalendar of course :p
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benwerd Yes indeed. Good.
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@benwerd IndieWebCamp Edinburgh is emerging - paging all of my wonderful geek friends there. https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (twitter.com/_/status/555831050203455488)
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Loqi [mention] Ben Werdmüller commented 'IndieWebCamp Edinburgh is emerging - paging all of my wonderful geek friends there. https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh' on a post https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (http://werd.io/2015/indiewebcamp-edinburgh-is-emerging---paging-all-of-my-wonderful)
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@rhiaro RT @benwerd: IndieWebCamp Edinburgh is emerging - paging all of my wonderful geek friends there. https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (twitter.com/_/status/555831121037230081)
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Loqi [bridgy] Amy Guy retweeted a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (https://twitter.com/rhiaro/status/555831121037230081)
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@harry_reeder RT @benwerd: IndieWebCamp Edinburgh is emerging - paging all of my wonderful geek friends there. https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (twitter.com/_/status/555831865484247042)
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kylewm I definitely read this headline as a challenge http://jlongster.com/Presenting-The-Most-Over-Engineered-Blog-Ever
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@IndieWebCampUK RT @benwerd: IndieWebCamp Edinburgh is emerging - paging all of my wonderful geek friends there. https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (twitter.com/_/status/555832991352492032)
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timowens.io edited /2015 (+19) "/* Candidate Cities */" (view diff)
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aaronpk kylewm: lol!
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tantek kylewm++ hah totally.
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Loqi kylewm has 101 karma
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kylewm dalmatians!
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aaronpk aw did you miss the red balloons?
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Loqi [bridgy] IndieWebCampUK favorited a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/555831050203455488)
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Loqi [bridgy] IndieWebCampUK retweeted a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (https://twitter.com/IndieWebCampUK/status/555832991352492032)
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Loqi [bridgy] Harry Reeder retweeted a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (https://twitter.com/harry_reeder/status/555831865484247042)
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tantek notes he was able to read that blog post even without JS (NoScript) despite all the new fashionable JS framework hoohaw
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tantek.com edited /Events (+0) "move last night's HWC to recent" (view diff)
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GWG aaronpk: They aren't red, they are luft. I believe luft means air.
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aaronpk GWG++
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Loqi GWG has 53 karma
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aaronpk the english lyrics say red ballons tho :(
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GWG Yes, but German has some oddly specific phrasing
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tantek.com edited /Template:IndieWebCamp (+49) "clarify Camridge MA, split UK into Edinburgh and Brighton!" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Events (+112) "add Social Web WG Face to Face Meeting at MIT (F2F2)" (view diff)
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GWG Can I redeem my karma points for an Android micropub client?
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GWG aaronpk: How do I get a karma ranking? I want to see the stats?
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tantek karma?
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tantek GWG karma?
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GWG tantek: When someone goes ___++ Loqi gives them karma points.
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Loqi yeah!
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aaronpk !karma GWG
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GWG tantek: I'm curious how many people have
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Loqi GWG has 53 karma
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tantek !karma
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Loqi tantek has 139 karma
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KevinMarks publishing leaderboards is not a good idea
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millette it's the 3rd worst idea, in fact
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KevinMarks millette++
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Loqi millette has 1 karma
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gRegor` Hahah
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GWG I don't want to publish them
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GWG I want something to shoot for
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gRegor` publishing-leaderboards--
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Loqi publishing-leaderboards has -1 karma
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GWG !aaronpk
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GWG !karma aaronpk
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Loqi aaronpk has 664 karma
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GWG Okay...not getting to 664
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gRegor` I liked tantek's comment the other day on...
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aaronpk maybe take this to #indiechat ...
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gRegor` !karma minimalism
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Loqi minimalism has 1 karma
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gRegor` "as it should be"
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KevinMarks aaronpk needs 2 more karma then we can stop
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aaronpk nooo
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /search (+157) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add myself" (view diff)
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: do you remember when you deployed your seach box?
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tantek and does it search by time order?
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@npm_tweets webmention-testpinger 0.5.0 https://www.npmjs.com/package/webmention-testpinger A tool to ping your site with a variety of webmention markup (twitter.com/_/status/555840581877137408)
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ben_thatmustbeme it does whatever google does, as to when i released it, i have to dig into my git history, i didn't post about it
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aaronpk by default it searches by "google order"
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aaronpk who knows what that means
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: check out http://indiewebcamp.com/search#search_box_-_level_2 for code to make it time ordered
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@nodenpm webmention-testpinger (0.5.0): https://www.npmjs.com/package/webmention-testpinger A tool to ping your site with a variety of webmention mark... (twitter.com/_/status/555840876396965888)
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ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro, we should have a spare room, you'll just have to deal with a 45 - 50 minute train ride outside of the city
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tantek.com edited /search (-2) "/* search box - level 2 */ clarify time ordering is part of level 2" (view diff)
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rhiaro ben_thatmustbeme: Thanks! I'll keep that in mind :)
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ben_thatmustbeme ah ha, found it, 2014-09-30
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www.flutterby.net user:danlyke edited /search (+120) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ danlyke bragging about how long his site has had locally hosted search" (view diff)
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: I thought you offered me that room.
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ben_thatmustbeme GWG did you say yes?
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GWG No
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ben_thatmustbeme well
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GWG I hate imposing
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ben_thatmustbeme plus, rhiaro is around a lot longer it sounds like
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GWG Besides, I figured you'd need it with your recent upgrade
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ben_thatmustbeme scrolls back
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kylewm danlyke: the webmention worked with vouch set; aesthetically my only thought is that my comment kinda feels like it's not part of the conversation/community, sequestered in its own webmention section
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tantek !tell benwerd do you have an indie event posted somewhere for https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/555806169306890241 ?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm it would be cool if i could do something to elevate it to the status of "trusted" comment (like e.g. if it correlated the source with my account on flutterby)
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tantek or why distinguish?
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bear !karma aaronpk
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Loqi aaronpk has 666 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme oh and GWG / rhiaro this does depend on the wife being ok with unknown people in the house with her like 7 months pregnant
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rhiaro ben_thatmustbeme: sure
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rhiaro I'll look elsewhere too, of course I wouldn't want to impose for too long anyway, but it's nice to know about potential backup plans in case couchsurfing falls through
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rhiaro And of course if anyone needs somewhere to stay for IWC Edinburgh, I have plenty of space
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: You want me to come up and meet her in advance?
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rhiaro I have mattress+couch space for 5 people comfortably
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ben_thatmustbeme GWG, i'll let you know
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /search (+130) "/* Ben Roberts */ add date" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme heh, we actually have a baby shower the weekend before and after IWC cambridge
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ben_thatmustbeme so tantek, are we set on the dates?
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tantek good thing it's not on the weekends then
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: who are the co-organizers?
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tantek can you co-organize?
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ben_thatmustbeme no clue, no one official yet
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, i can help, but its hard being an hour out of the city
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tantek you're the closest one so far ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme haha, true
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm sure i can help organize though
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tantek great!
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GWG tantek: Any word on IWC NYC 2015?
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GWG I feel like I'm pestering Jeremy because he has a venue
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tantek GWG - that's good. keep pestering :)
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tantek.com edited /2015/Cambridge (+66) "upgrading ben to a co-organizer, note Venue as part of organizing" (view diff)
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: now that you're a co-organizer, your next job is to find another co-organizer
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tantek and then the task of settling on dates is yours as co-organizers :)
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@veganstraightedge Things in progress. @homesteadingio #indieweb http://instagram.com/p/x5AncDsnsU/ (twitter.com/_/status/555848760954470401)
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tantek (or you can unilaterally decide as well before you get a co-organizer)
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ben_thatmustbeme haha, okay then
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ben_thatmustbeme should probably hit up sandro_ to see if we can get that venue again
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tantek.com edited /2015/Cambridge (+146) "more venue related stuff" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme microsoft has some nice conference space there too, i think you have heard of them, right tantek?
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: I believe Sandro said yes
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tantek since he's already hosting Social Web WG the previous two days
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tantek what's left is to get details from Sandro - noted here: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge#Venue
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tantek if you have a contact at Microsoft, you're welcome to add them as a backup venue if you're not sure about MIT.
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: you may be able to get ahold of sandro sooner in the irc://irc.w3.org/social IRC channel
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ben_thatmustbeme ah ha, and i get to find another location of Loqi
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aaronpk :)
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (+0) "next HWC!" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/next-hwc (+0) "update to 01-28" (view diff)
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: when you've locked down the dates (e.g. confirmed venue info with Sandro etc.) please update the indiewebcamp.com home page also with a "next indiewebcamp" section like this: https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&oldid=14283#IndieWebCamp (nothing in current home page like that since we ran out of them!)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com () "(-566) Done: shortlinks." (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme certainly
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@pierreozoux @cyril @NicolasCatard je suis sympas et j'ai un blog #indieweb, ça marche? ;) si tu veux un Portuguais, dis moi, on peut s'arranger :) (twitter.com/_/status/555853322171998208)
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ben_thatmustbeme okay, off to catch a train
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ben_thatmustbeme see you tomorrow
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rhiaro I should go home/to sleep, catch you all later o/
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aaronpk good night!
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Loqi goodnight!
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: if you prefer, we can add such "when … to do" items to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge#Organizers rather than just leave them here in IRC
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:hwc-2015-014-sf.jpg]]""
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (+187) "different shortlink plugin b/c bug" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /2015-01-01-commitments (+100) "/* Additional 2015-01 launches */ colintedford enabled shortlinks" (view diff)
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