#indiewebcamp 2015-01-19

2015-01-19 UTC
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david.shanske.com edited /User:David.shanske.com (+183) "/* Wordpress Development */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /User:David.shanske.com (+41) "/* WordPress for Indieweb */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /Semantic_Linkbacks (-14) (view diff)
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david.shanske.com created /Semantic_Comments (+50) "Redirected page to [[Semantic Linkbacks#Semantic Comments]]" (view diff)
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Phyks tantek: finally got time to review it before leaving. It makes sense, and I don't have much comments on it. I should just take some time to think about it and write my owns :)
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tantek Phyks - great! Looking forward to reading what you're personal itches are :)
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Phyks ^^
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tantek s/you're/your
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Loqi tantek meant to say: Phyks - great! Looking forward to reading what your personal itches are :)
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tantek (besides that ;) )
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david.shanske.com edited /Getting_Started_on_WordPress (+143) "/* Plugins */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /Getting_Started_on_WordPress (+1) "/* Plugins */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /Getting_Started_on_WordPress (+22) "/* Syndication */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /Getting_Started_on_WordPress (+26) "/* Syndication */" (view diff)
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GWG https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started_on_WordPress
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GWG Better?
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GWG Worse?
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GWG Same?
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Phyks snarfed: this seems to be interesting https://github.com/Raven24/diaspora-federation… I'll have a deeper look at it tomorrow
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snarfed Phyks: try pasting again without the ellipsis?
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Phyks snarfed: this seems to be interesting https://github.com/Raven24/diaspora-federation … I'll have a deeper look at it tomorrow
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snarfed hah, sorry, ok. thought part was omitted
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Phyks ah, no, sorry
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snarfed Phyks: ok. did you see the link i posted earlier? it says there's an API built in, and you can also get post data as ActivityStreams, which is really all we need
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snarfed see https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/198#issuecomment-70432361
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Phyks yep, saw it, but did not found more infos about it and did not want to dig in the code tonight :p
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snarfed ok
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snarfed feel free to capture progress in the github issue
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tantek GWG++ this is greatly improved.
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Loqi GWG has 57 karma
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Phyks ok
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tantek.com edited /Getting_Started_on_WordPress (+225) "add a call to action to install the indieweb plugin with a direct link to the installation page, shorten headings, bolden names of plugins" (view diff)
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tantek GWG, I made a few small tweaks, please take a look to see if they are in the manner that you intend for the page. Hopefully they are helpful. Ok to make changes/revert as you see fit.
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tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started_on_WordPress
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tantek this is a good post https://blog.sandstorm.io/news/2014-07-21-open-source-web-apps-require-federated-hosting.html
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tantek !tell elf-pavlik sure - so capture it somewhere in the wiki
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG tantek: My intent is that this page will mirror the one in the plugin itself.
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GWG So, it has a dual purpose
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tantek ok
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tantek I couldn't tell that intent from the page
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tantek could you put that somewhere on the page?
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tantek near the top
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tantek what is getting started on wordpress?
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Loqi By using a WordPress blog on your own domain, you are already part of the IndieWeb; here is how to get started with upgrading your IndieWeb support in WordPress https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started_on_WordPress
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tantek what is Hacker CMS?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Hacker CMS" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Hacker+CMS
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tantek who are the sandstorm folks in the house?
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tantek paulproteus: could you create a page for that Hacker CMS?
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david.shanske.com edited /Getting_Started_on_WordPress (+41) (view diff)
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: yes! the small PRs leave an octopus merge for tom to deal with, but at least it will let him merge the important ones (like your innerhtml fix) without deciding on the less imoprtant ones right away
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: the trick to keeping them separate is to do the development in a branch and then PR the branch
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kylewm Phyks: snarfed: for pump.io/statusnet/diaspora I've always held out hope for first class federation rather than POSSE/backfeed
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tantek kylewm - good point
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: aah i see.
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david.shanske.com edited /Getting_Started_on_WordPress (+3) (view diff)
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GWG tantek: That make sense to you?
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tantek GWG, yes, looking good.
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GWG tantek: Trying to explain the Indieweb plugin actually doesn't do any of these things itself confuses people
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tantek well then that's a good reason why the IndieWeb plugin should automatically include the "Required" plugins
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tantek so that when you do install the IndieWeb plugin - you automatically get at least *some* IndieWeb functionality
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GWG pfefferle removed them because that affected updating. If you install the individual pieces, you get the updates.
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GWG But when you activate the plugin, it instructs you to install and activate
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tantek.com created /Hacker_CMS (+686) "stub with dfn, open source, example, see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /Ace (+32) "stub with URL" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /jsTree (+36) "stub with URL" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Hacker_CMS (+19) "see also sandstorm.io" (view diff)
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tantek GWG - it's exactly that lack of default functionality that confuses people
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tantek so it's your choice, either fix the problems with default installing the "required" plugins so people actually get some functionality, or accept that installing a plugin that doesn't actually do anything itself will (continue to) cause confusion. there may also be other options I'm not aware of but I'm not sure how one of those two can be avoided.
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GWG tantek: I don't think anything short of a WordPress core change would do that
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tantek.com edited /itches (+59) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add GWG's itches" (view diff)
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tantek what is Thingiverse?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Thingiverse" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Thingiverse
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tantek !tell Phyks when you have a moment, could you stub a Thingiverse page? It looks like we don't have a page for "Thingiverse" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Thingiverse
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek what is OStatus?
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Loqi OStatus is a suite of protocols for distributed social networking: https://indiewebcamp.com/OStatus
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GWG tantek: https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/22316
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tantek What is the IndieWeb Plugin?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "IndieWeb Plugin" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=IndieWeb+Plugin
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tantek GWG, perhaps stub that a bit and document that core.trac ticket as an == Issue == ?
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GWG It's a 6 year old debate
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tantek even better reason to capture it
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tantek what is Hacker CMS?
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Loqi Hacker CMS is a Markdown-based web site editing and publishing app project built on top Jekyll, Ace, and jsTree that can be installed on Sandstorm https://indiewebcamp.com/Hacker_CMS
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tantek alrighty then, now that I've liked something published with Hacker CMS - time to ask for webmention receiving support
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tantek issue posted: https://github.com/kentonv/ssjekyll/issues/3
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tantek.com edited /Hacker_CMS (+300) "IndieWeb support - none AFAIK, one issue filed" (view diff)
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tantek !tell bret since you've had experience adding microformats support to a Jekyll based blog, could you take a look at Hacker CMS and see what it would take, or perhaps at least file an issue asking for microformats support? https://indiewebcamp.com/Hacker_CMS
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek ok I think I've unwound all the implied things to respond to from today's IRC log :)
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tantek back to improving /like
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GWG tantek: I've noticed you like a lot more since you became able to like
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tantek GWG lol yes :)
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tantek and I like things other than tweets and FB
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tantek which I (somehow) didn't see coming
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tantek even though it is self-evident / obv
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tantek I actually like "likes" more than "bookmarks" for this reasons, they're basically "positive" bookmarks.
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tantek and since I'm not bothering to spam I mean POSSE them to my Twitter followers, I feel more "free" to post them
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tantek still trying to figure out how to capture this first-person-reaction to being able to like on my own site. but there's a few thoughts for now.
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tantek should go into a blog post
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GWG tantek: I look forward to reading it. You know of my like issues
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tantek GWG - since I can only like (no bookmark or repost or quotation posts), it's simpler for me.
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tantek sometimes I like something immediately, and then later post a reply when I have specific thoughts.
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tantek does that help with your "like issues"?
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GWG tantek: I have like, bookmark, and favorite. Sometimes lack of choice is good.
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tantek I saw no reason to make favorites
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tantek and since "positive bookmarks" are the only ones that make sense to me to post publicly, I just post likes instead, therefore not needing a "bookmark" post type.
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GWG tantek: I wrote a plugin to cover all uses. It took five seconds to add favorites.
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GWG I wanted to add a feature to 'hide'/disable the ones people weren't using
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tantek the amount of time to add a feature is not a good measure (ironically)
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tantek that's how too many features happen quickly ;)
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tantek better to be picky about design up front, minimalist, only add what you're *really* itching for, that you'll use
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tantek rather than a smorgasbord of what you think users might want
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tantek for now, just comment out the ones you don't use.
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GWG tantek: That's harder than you think.
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GWG Surprisingly.
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tantek GWG, why?
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GWG Well, it depends on 'how' I choose to do it.
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tantek simple algorithm: comment them all out, then when you *really* feel the need to post one of them in particular, uncomment it.
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tantek then just use that one until you get too strong of an itch to use another
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GWG It's in the database. As long as it is, unless I write custom display code, it will show up on the list to display all terms.
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GWG So, to solve it, I need to write a function that allows an 'exclude'.
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GWG Or purge it from the database entirely.
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GWG If I purge it, it will be removed as a term from anything that has it.
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tantek I meant comment it out from your posting UI
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aaronpk good evening
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tantek leave the display alone
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aaronpk has two days of logs to catch up on!
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GWG tantek: That's what I'm trying to say. WordPress automatically generates the posting UI. To do it, I have to write my own. I haven't gotten around to it
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aaronpk is now considering presentation of reposts of podcast episodes
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tantek huh
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GWG I used the 'quick' way to get it up.
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pdurbin aaronpk: you mean you'd post something about a podcast you just listened to?
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tantek purbin that sounds more like a comment or audio marginalia ;)
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tantek (rather than a repost)
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pdurbin oh
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tantek.com edited /like (+2539) "/* Brainstorming */ steps to clustering by same source, type, with count. notification and text-only examples" (view diff)
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tantek GWG, I have like issues too BTW. I keep wanting to improve the presentation. However every time it happens is from when I actually use the feature on my site and see something I want improved.
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tantek it's a selfdogfood - itch - scratch loop
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tantek I'm documenting my thinking in progress through that loop on the wiki so hopefully it will benefit others.
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aaronpk my intent is to share this podcast episode in my home timeline
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tantek Even before I'm ready to write a big long blog post about a possible minimal approach to presentation design for indieweb likes.
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GWG tantek: I'm still working on making liking easier
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tantek GWG, me too. Though I tend to focus on presentation first, since that effects everyone reading my site, whereas the posting (making) affects just me (for now).
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aaronpk hm I haven't figured out how I want to display reposts/favs of articles yet (posts that have a different "name" from "content")
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tantek aaronpk - have you researched how other sites do so?
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KartikPrabhu about audio-marginalia here is one: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/gurdy-lights-sky I don't think barnabywalters has gotten to displaying them yet
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tantek perhaps that would be a good start
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aaronpk checks http://indiewebcamp.com/articles
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aaronpk and http://indiewebcamp.com/repost
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tantek in particular http://indiewebcamp.com/repost#Silo_Examples
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aaronpk d'aww http://www.repost.us/
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aaronpk "Repost is Shutting Down."
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tantek wat
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aaronpk "On July 31 2014 we will shutdown the Repost api servers and all embedded content will cease to be available."
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tantek huh - that would be the past
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KartikPrabhu silo down... silo dpwn
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aaronpk I don't even know what that service is
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aaronparecki.com created /silo-shutdowns (+24) "r" (view diff)
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aaronpk well at least it's already listed there
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tantek perhaps remove it from /repost then
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tantek since it's supposedly dead
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aaronpk definitely dead
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tantek aaronpk - looks like G+ has some presentation examples for how they do reposts of articles with titles
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aaronparecki.com edited /repost (+53) "/* Repost.us */ past" (view diff)
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tantek not saying they're good, but they're at least real and deployed and thus worth analyzing as a starting point.
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aaronpk ooh where?
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/repost#Google.2B
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tantek they call it "share" - just like the AS folks do
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aaronpk that's a great sequence of screenshots
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tantek research++ yes!
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Loqi research has 2 karma
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tantek documentation++
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Loqi dude
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tantek :P
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aaronpk okay so given that screenshot, it appears that a G+ repost is rendered like a plain note from the person who is reposting it, but the media they are reposting is displayed inline
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aaronpk oh sorry that is the original post I'm looking at. Kevin Marks reposted the original one
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aaronpk so it says "Seth Goldstein originally shared: My Thoughts on the Indie Web" and "read more" followed by the embedded media in a player
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aaronpk man implied p-name parsing is biting me again
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aaronpk can someone tell me how this p-name value makes sense? https://tommorris.org/posts/9178
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aaronpk (p-name of the h-entry)
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: it doesn't
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GWG Doesn't to me either.
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: oh it is the implied p-name. It will take the full text content of h-entry
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aaronpk right. why is that a good idea?
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KartikPrabhu that is the default p-name for any h-*
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aaronpk why?
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aaronpk typically the name of posts is either a prefix of the content or something different (usually shorter) than the content
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KartikPrabhu it makes sense to me to have a default name as text content as in <div class="h-card">Name</div>
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aaronpk having the implied p-name be the full plaintext version of the entire h-entry usually results in something longer than the content such as in this example
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aaronpk yes it makes sense in the h-card example
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KartikPrabhu but impled rules are h-* agnostic
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aaronpk maybe the solution is that articles should not use p-name for their titles
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KartikPrabhu no articles should use p-name for titles
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aaronpk i just keep encountering cases where I can't actually safely use the implied "name" value
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KartikPrabhu notes should put p-name and e-content together
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aaronpk notes don't have a name, that's what makes them a note
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KartikPrabhu what is note?
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Loqi A note is a post that is typically short unstructured* plain text, written & posted quickly, that has its own permalink page https://indiewebcamp.com/note
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: you are having trouble with impled name of a note then
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aaronpk yes, see tommorris link above: https://tommorris.org/posts/9178
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KartikPrabhu regardless of whether articles use p-name for titles or not that note will still show all content as name
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KartikPrabhu unless we change impled name rules
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aaronpk it is a note, so he shouldn't have to put a p-name class anywhere, but because the h-entry contains things other than the content (like the date and syndication urls) the name ends up being completely garbage
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KartikPrabhu yup
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aaronpk and there isn't even a way for me to know whether the "name" value is implied or explicit
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KartikPrabhu yeah the output is supposed to be agnostic to that too
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KartikPrabhu hmm
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aaronpk basically i want to know if the author of a post has explicitly created a name for it
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aaronpk really the problem is with implied names of posts, not other kinds of objects
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aaronpk because implied name works well for h-card and things
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KartikPrabhu until it doesn't
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aaronpk i've seen fewer mistakes/errors of other kinds of objects
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KartikPrabhu true
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aaronpk in the case of this tommorris post, what is the author error that he can correct?
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aaronpk I don't see it, because it's not an article, so he shoudln't have to add a p-name class
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tantek_ Regardless you have to code for it as a consumer
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: yeah. in my notes I did add an explicit p-name to my e-content on notes
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tantek_ Pretty simple fix for your consuming code
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aaronpk right now the only thing I can do is disregard all p-name values for notes and articles
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KartikPrabhu to avoid this issue
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aaronpk because i can't tell if it's intentional or not
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tantek_ If content!="" && strlen(name)>strlen(content) then don't use name
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aaronpk let me try that...
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aaronpk with me new http://aaronparecki.com/likes page it makes it very easy to test a wide range of posts
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: won't work on that post
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KartikPrabhu https://kylewm.com/services/mf2?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftommorris.org%2Fposts%2F9178 name has more that the content
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KartikPrabhu oh I see what tantek did there
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aaronpk that worked for the tommorris post
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aaronpk now is failing here http://gregorlove.com/notes/2014/07/18/1/
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aaronpk also doesn't work here https://barryfrost.com/2015/01/a-new-site
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: use strlen(name)>=strlen(content)
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aaronpk no difference
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KartikPrabhu hmm really!? gregor's post has name = content.value
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aaronpk i'm looking at barry's now
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KartikPrabhu hmmm looks like the name is being stripped of newlines but the content.value isn't . at least in mf2py
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KartikPrabhu so even though they are the same name is smaller than content.value
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aaronpk that's part of implied p-name rules, right?
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: yes. "drop leading & trailing white-space from name, including nbsp "
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aaronpk i can't seem to do anything sane with this
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: yeah the drop trailing spaces makes it really hard
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aaronpk i even tried comparing with all whitespace removed
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kylewm mf2util does a weird check for this https://github.com/kylewm/mf2util/blob/master/mf2util/util.py#L191
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kylewm basically strip out everything that isn't [a-zA-Z0-9] and see if content is contained in name
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aaronpk kylewm: i'd be curious how it works against the list of posts i'm working with
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kylewm aaronpk: you can test with https://kylewm.com/services/mf2util
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kylewm https://kylewm.com/services/mf2util?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftommorris.org%2Fposts%2F9178
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KartikPrabhu well well look at that no "name" :P
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aaronpk hm that seems to work
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aaronpk kylewm: all the cases i'm looking at work when i compare only a-zA-Z0-9 chars
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aaronpk kylewm++
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Loqi kylewm has 103 karma
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aaronpk i'm gonna go with that for now. I think I can actually ship this with that in mind
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kylewm \o/
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KartikPrabhu /o\
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aaronpk ha kylewm your parser does a good job with this https://kylewm.com/services/mf2util?url=http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/01/18/1/
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aaronpk your parser plus my clever markup ;)
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kylewm !!
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kylewm that's kind of odd, i must say
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aaronpk it's an accurate representation of my post though, right?
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aaronpk the idea behind my markup is that consumers/readers that understand the "repost-of" property can provide an enhanced display, but it falls back to a plaintext note if not
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KartikPrabhu nice idea
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aaronpk anyway now I can retweet posts that contain audio yay
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Loqi :D
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aaronparecki.com edited /repost (+375) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add myself with examples of reposts of different content types" (view diff)
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@aaronpk Funny, after seeing the same comparison of server- vs client-side rendering of HTML, I had the opposite... #indieweb http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/01/18/3/indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/557041587973152768)
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tantek good evening #indiewebcamp!
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GWG Good evening
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tantek aaronpk, kylewm I see you solved the p-name problem you were running into
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tantek GWG, you might like this: http://indiewebcamp.com/repost#Differentiating_Reposts
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tantek.com edited /repost (+153) "/* Differentiating Reposts */" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (+143) "/* Noise filter */ Provisional decision on what posts to filter out; refine, reorganize." (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (-4) "/* Noise filter */ rm stray word" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /itches (+114) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add self w/ alt term" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (-52) "/* Colin Tedford */ shorten" (view diff)
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@benwerd @naval I would also include the FSF, as well as smaller projects and communities like #indieweb that are continuing to push the envelope. (twitter.com/_/status/557100109423333376)
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@veganstraightedge Auto-populate the tags field from content’s #hashtags. @homesteadingio #indieweb http://instagram.com/p/yB6Wtpsnvf/ (twitter.com/_/status/557101629556928512)
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@veganstraightedge Enable / disable geocoding a post. @homesteadingio #indieweb http://instagram.com/p/yB6eKNMnvq/ (twitter.com/_/status/557101885199765506)
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@veganstraightedge Public / private posting + syndication (#posse). @homesteadingio #indieweb http://instagram.com/p/yB6tjzMnv4/ (twitter.com/_/status/557102414458028032)
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@andkjaer How to Revive Your Social Media Campaign by @esornoso >> http://www.searchenginejournal.com/?p=122762&utm_content=buffera9abc&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #SocialMedia Tip from Eric Sornoso. #SelfPublish #IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/557114503750774784)
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KartikPrabhu eh unrelated SEO crap ^
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Phyks kylewm: same for me… it would be great, and I'm really sad that such decentralized and foss projects do not offer such a thing =(
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Loqi Phyks: tantek left you a message 8 hours, 49 minutes ago: when you have a moment, could you stub a Thingiverse page? It looks like we don't have a page for "Thingiverse" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Thingiverse
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GWG pfefferle: Been working on another revision of the text for the plugin on the wiki...https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started_on_WordPress
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pfefferle GWG nice!
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Loqi pfefferle: GWG left you a message on 1/17 at 9:00am: Pushed a bunch of changes into the WordPress Indieweb Repository. Wanted your opinion so far
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pfefferle GWG thanks for the changes so far (btw)
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pfefferle GWG++
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Loqi GWG has 58 karma
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GWG pfefferle: The people in here have been helpful in looking at it from an outside perspective.
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GWG pfefferle: Before I forget, I do have one more question for you.
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GWG pfefferle: I'm still working on mf2_s, the starter theme...any elements you would suggest belong in an Indieweb WordPress theme?
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pfefferle some more actions/widget areas on strategic places
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Jihaisse hello pfefferle
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pfefferle hey Jihaisse
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Jihaisse long time no see :)
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Jihaisse a lot of work + a coworking space in creation
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pfefferle Jihaisse indeed :)
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Jihaisse that's 2 full time jobs
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pfefferle Jihaisse sounds good but buisy ;)
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pfefferle Jihaisse I became father… that’s also 2 full time jobs ;)
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GWG pfefferle: Actions?
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pfefferle http://codex.wordpress.org/Function_Reference/do_action
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GWG I, unfortunately, or fortunately, have nothing to report life-wise.
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pfefferle GWG we discussed that a long time ago
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GWG pfefferle: Yes. Put a few in, but also a lot of template_parts.
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GWG Trying to balance the two.
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pfefferle GWG that can also be luxury ;)
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@_wellconnect Ensure the story of increasingly open #healthdata has happy ending? http://www.rwjf.org/en/blogs/culture-of-health/2015/01/open_health_dataho.html?cid=xsh_rwjf_tw #futureofhealth #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/557174177695010818)
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pfefferle GWG but template parts are not very helpfull if you need to extend the theme via a plugin
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GWG pfefferle: Agreed
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GWG pfefferle: But I built in support for Semantic Linkbacks, webmentions, and Post Kinds.
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GWG pfefferle: So, after that I have the filters.
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pfefferle GWG shouldn’t that be done by the plugins?
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GWG pfefferle: Why? Themes are for styling, plugins are for extending functionality.
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GWG pfefferle: It's one thing if the theme doesn't know about the plugin, but if it does...
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GWG pfefferle: That was the point of TGMPluginActivation...to bring in plugin dependencies for themes.
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pfefferle GWG ah I see… you added archives for the ”žkinds“
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GWG pfefferle: I added content pages for the kinds. But I just figured out how to simplify it even more.
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GWG pfefferle: I also set it up to degrade gracefully. If Post Kinds isn't installed, it falls back on Post Formats.
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GWG So, a photo kind display is equivalent to a image post format.
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@bookprescom How to Revive Your Social Media Campaign by @esornoso >> http://www.searchenginejournal.com/?p=122762&utm_content=buffer7c5de&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #SocialMedia Tip from Eric Sornoso. #SelfPublish #IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/557175725640671233)
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pfefferle GWG if you use get_the_archive_title()/description() in the archive page, you don’t have to define a custom taxonomy template
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GWG pfefferle: I'm aware
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pfefferle GWG ok :)
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Jihaisse pfefferle: oh, great ! félicitations
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GWG pfefferle: I have something else planned.
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pfefferle Jihaisse merci :)
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GWG pfefferle: Specifically for photo/image taxonomies.
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pfefferle GWG I am curious
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GWG pfefferle: I wanted this starter to have no major theme styling in terms of appearance. But I'm trying to put in the elements for different presentation types to be styled by the themes made from it.
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petermolnar pfefferle check private
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Phyks tantek: ok for Thingiverse, I'll try to write something this week :) Basically, Thingiverse is an instagram+github for 3D things for 3D printing.
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petermolnar ahh
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petermolnar nothing
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petermolnar sorry
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petermolnar wrong channel
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pfefferle :)
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GWG pfefferle: Right now, I'm contemplating what post metadata should be displayed on a like. I doubt someone is going to comment/like a like, so maybe it doesn't need to display the comment section.
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Jihaisse I like a like
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GWG Jihaisse: What does liking a like mean?
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GWG Jihaisse: Also, thinking of trying to merge your syndication plugin and mine.
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GWG Not sure if that is possible.
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Jihaisse GWG: oh yes, that's true. I forgot it
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GWG Jihaisse: Forgot it?
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Jihaisse sorry, I've got a pull request from petermolnar
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Jihaisse I think it was from you GWG
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petermolnar who, me?
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Jihaisse yep
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GWG I didn't do a pull request
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Jihaisse GWG: no, you didn't
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GWG But ny rel-syndication plugin allows for manual POSSE. Yours only allows for automatic.
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GWG If we merged them, one plugin could do manual or automatic
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Jihaisse GWG: https://github.com/jihaisse/wordpress-syndication this one just add some links if there are some POSSE already done
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Jihaisse it's not a POSSE plugin
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Jihaisse for POSSE, I use social plugin, from mailchimp (with some little hacks)
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GWG Jihaisse, neither is mine
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GWG https://github.com/dshanske/syndication-links
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GWG Mine requires the user to add the links as a post meta box.
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Jihaisse ok
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GWG Jihaisse: If I took your code for getting the URL out of Social, stored the result in the place I store the URLs, then one plugin would do both.
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GWG Best of both worlds
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Jihaisse GWG: and you display a link in the article ?
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GWG Jihaisse: Yes, or an icon.
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Jihaisse GWG: sounds good ! So yes, maybe just one plugin can do all the job
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@SMdatalab Le Web est cassé & Comment le réparer ? #Top #Enjoy #IndieWeb (via @ChristopheDucamp) http://fr.slideshare.net/ChristopheDucamp/indie-web-tonictuesday20140722?utm_source=slideshow&utm_medium=ssemail&utm_campaign=upload_digest (twitter.com/_/status/557194355703050241)
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@SM_Factory Le Web est cassé & Comment le réparer ? #Top #Enjoy #IndieWeb (via @ChristopheDucamp) :: Indie web tonictuesday-2014-07-22 ... (twitter.com/_/status/557198589450268674)
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@NickiDurlester RT @salisburymw: I hope my #BRCA testing saga helps to shed light on the problems facing genetic testing. #ownyourdata @techonomy http://t.… (twitter.com/_/status/557198806404448258)
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aaronpk good morning!
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aaronpk tantek: yes, solved the p-name issue for now, but doing so with an undocumented method (comparing only [a-zA-Z0-9])
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@py3k Flask-Micropub - Adds support for Micropub clients. pypi: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/Flask-Micropub/ www: https://indiewebcamp.com/Flask-Micropub/ #python (twitter.com/_/status/557223028187484160)
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tantek cool
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kylewm experimenting with pitching Known to a podcast I like https://github.com/thechangelog/ping/issues/119
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kylewm curious to see what they say!
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tantek they take suggestions via gh issues?
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tantek.com edited /events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club (-13) "SF location confirmed @MozSF" (view diff)
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tantek kylewm: can you make the HWC SF meetup on 01-28?
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tantek.com edited /events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club (+8) "/* RSVP */ in" (view diff)
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tantek !tell benwerd can you make the HWC SF meetup on 01-28? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com edited /events/2015-02-11-homebrew-website-club (+0) "update template for SF writing hour 17:30" (view diff)
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tantek !tell aaronpk are you able to host PDX for https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club ?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm tantek: most likely no :( tenative work travel that day
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tantek hopefully benwerd can make it!
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tantek.com edited /like (+1707) "/* Brainstorming */ hypertext design, and markup for, with authorship knowledge" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+0) "next IWC we know of for sure is Cambridge, so let's put it on the sidebar until something else gets scheduled sooner!" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /next-iwc (+9) "next IWC is Cambridge as far as we know now" (view diff)
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tommorris have you all seen Trovebox shutting down? What was formerly known as OpenPhoto. Sold as a monoculture of "give us all your photos and we won't delete them!"
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tantek ugh
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tommorris yeah it's shutting down on 2015-03-15. https://trovebox.com/
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tantek I think it got added
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tommorris yeah, it's on site-deaths. I added it to en.wp earlier
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tantek they actually said that?
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tantek assumes tommorris has citations for such quotes ;)
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tommorris loose paraphrase. ;)
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tommorris I'll dig out some citations later. :)
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tantek while you're in there - want to double check any of the other expected site-deaths from 2014? http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths#Upcoming
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tantek I suppose I should move those to "Any Day Now"
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tantek one moment
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tantek interesting, Twitpic is now being "given" to Twitter
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tantek wow: http://blog.twitpic.com/2014/10/twitpics-future/ - so, build a system on someone
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tantek else's proprietary platform / silo, and end up having to *give* it to them just to keep the links working
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tantek crazy
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tantek "[…] part of your photo sharing memories for nearly seven years"
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tantek ***seven years*** of work, just to be *given* to Twitter.
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tantek looks like myopenid.com is finally gone
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tantek can't find the server at www.myopenid.com.
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tantek.com edited /site-deaths (+981) "confirmed Svpply gone, orkut gone but supposedly export available til 2016, yahoo dir redirects, myopenid server not found" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2014-review (+209) "be sure to mention Site Deaths 2014" (view diff)
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gRegor` Afternoon, indieweb.
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tjkoury hello all
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tantek good day gRegor`
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gRegor` Hi tjkoury
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tantek gRegor`: are you confirmed for HWC CHI 01-28? RSVP? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club
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tjkoury Hi gRegor`
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gRegor` . . .
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club (+13) "/* RSVP */ Chi" (view diff)
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gRegor` . . . yes
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tantek tjkoury: welcome! what's your personal site?
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tjkoury tantek it's TJKoury.com, though please forgive the state it's in currently
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tantek tjkoury: no apology/forgiveness needed, all our sites are in a constant state of needing improvement :)
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tjkoury ty
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tantek tjkoury++ "I design and build for the web." :)
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Loqi tjkoury has 1 karma
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club (+10) "/* URLs */ Chi" (view diff)
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tjkoury @Loqi yup, that's me!
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Loqi grins profusely
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GWG Tantek: Any chance of newbies at the next HWC?
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tantek GWG - we have newbies at nearly every HWC!
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tantek for now check the logs (linked from every HWC wiki page)
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tantek tjkoury: and you've got rel=me setup too
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tantek tjkoury: so go ahead and add yourself to https://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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tjkoury @tantek kk
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GWG tantek, I want to test the work I've been doing
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GWG I should be able to push an update to the Wordpress.org repository before then.
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Loqi it is probable
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tantek GWG, try to get in touch with folks like kylewm and dariusdunlap to check out your new work, because they're usually quite helpful with new WordPress folks at HWC meetups.
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tantek it helps a lot to have someone help you out in person
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tantek so if you're able to help those that can be there in person - that helps!
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tjkoury.com edited /IRC_People (+116) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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tantek out for bit - back soon
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Loqi [mention] gRegor Morrill posted 'Join us for Homebrew Website Club January 28! https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club https://www.facebook.com/even...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club (/notes/2015/01/19/1/)
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/424785507688451#10152677263201794 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi [bridgy] Gregor Morrill RSVPed yes to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club (https://www.facebook.com/424785507688451#27301982)
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@gRegorLove Join us for Homebrew Website Club January 28! https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club https://www.facebook.com/events/424785507688451/424785514355117/ cc @pitchdesign @marihuertas @dentonjacobs (twitter.com/_/status/557264549137502209)
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GWG kylewm, want to be a poster child for IndieWordPress?
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kylewm GWG: not really?
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GWG kylewm, you know if I do screenshots, you'll end up in them
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tantek GWG, try contacting darius - since he primarily uses WordPress
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tantek kylewm helps out where he can with WordPress and Known, but of course primarily uses Red Wind himself :)
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GWG tantek, I was referring to my tendency to use kylewm's profile picture to test display elements
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tantek GWG: https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Dunlaps.net
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GWG Mostly because I can usually get him to send a test mention
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Loqi [bridgy] Kanwal Jehan favorited a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club (https://twitter.com/gRegorLove/status/557264549137502209)
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Loqi [mention] gRegor Morrill posted '@Brock Hey, Brock. As someone with a personal site, you might enjoy this little meetup we have going: https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-0...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club (/notes/2015/01/19/2/)
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@gRegorLove @Brock Hey, Brock. As someone with a personal site, you might enjoy this little meetup we have going: https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/557267344116838400)
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GWG tantek, my next steps are screenshotting the process
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tantek tjkoury: check out the logs - you're now linked to your website there! https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-01-19
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tjkoury @tantek glad to be!
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tantek if you add an image to your entry in https://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people then that will show up next to you in the logs as well
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tjkoury kk, I put my link to gravitar but not sure if working
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tantek it has to be the direct URL to the image
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tantek not a gravatar
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tantek like a JPG or PNG etc
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tantek and then check out your site with indiewebify.me and see how it does!
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tjkoury.com edited /IRC_People (+15) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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tantek GWG see also https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Dunlaps.net/darius
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tjkoury.com edited /IRC_People (-59) (view diff)
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GWG I will be.
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tjkoury @tantek I have liberated my content from gravatar
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tantek that's the spirit!
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tjkoury @tantek :)
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gRegor` Looks good, tjkoury: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-01-19
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tjkoury thx @gRegor`
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Loqi [mention] Kevin Marks commented 'Based on your experience at Homebrew Website Club we rewrote the Wordpress Indieweb plugin explanation: http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Star...' on a post http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started_on_WordPress (http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/based-on-your-experience-at-homebrew-website-club-we-rewrote)
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KevinMarks_ hm. SO loqi didn't read my in-reply-to?
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Loqi woot!
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KevinMarks_ ah, known added an in-reply-to to the indieweb link as well
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KevinMarks_ hm, interesting Blogger UI - under "links to this post" (their silo webmention equivalent based on google crawl) they have a "create a link" button that logs you into blogger
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kylewm KevinMarks_: that in-reply-to on the Indiewebcamp.com link seems like a mistake/bug?
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bret howdy, back in pdx :)
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Loqi bret: tantek left you a message on 1/18 at 5:34pm: since you've had experience adding microformats support to a Jekyll based blog, could you take a look at Hacker CMS and see what it would take, or perhaps at least file an issue asking for microformats support? https://indiewebcamp.com/Hacker_CMS
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bret I'll peek at it
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kylewm does anybody have interesting thoughts on how to reconcile inline hashtags with "traditional" tags?
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kylewm I think p3k and Known only do inline, barnaby seems to have both
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kylewm and I saw a screenshot of Homesteading that looks like it's going to autopopulate the tags based on hashtags int he content
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bret kylewm: one solution would be to just create a separate div with more hash tags
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bret that way they are the same
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bret at least at the HTML level
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bret how that maps to your software model is a whole other story
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kylewm how it maps is kind of more what i'm curious about
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bret jekyll has an array in the front matter, but I don't like that very much
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bret I would much rather see #tag processing inside the post content and just instagram style #tag block at the end of the post if I wanted
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bret having to remember the correct yaml structure is more crap to remember
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kylewm hmm, sure that makes sense
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kylewm i kind of like having tags a little less visible
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emmak what are "traditional" tags?
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kylewm i guess i'm thinking like wordpress style categories
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kylewm where the tags are an external data structure, not part of the body text
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bret categories vs tags can also mean different things to different programs, jekyll has the notion of both
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kylewm I shouldn't have said that :)
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kylewm if wordpress has tags, that's all i mean
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kylewm I think I like the idea of having both and having inline tags automatically added to the full list of tags
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bret yeah, that would be reasonable, inline tags U meta data tags
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KevinMarks_ hm, GWG, is 2 in-reply-to's why the webmention doesn't show up here? http://www.jeanmrussell.com/testing-brid-gy/
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snarfed KevinMarks: re the bridgy part, looking at her user page https://www.brid.gy/twitter/NurtureGirl , and clicking on the log link for the failed webmention, looks like bridgy got a 403 when trying to fetch her original post
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snarfed …but i'm guessing you weren't asking about the bridgy part
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KevinMarks_ odd, as the post is there
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KevinMarks_ I was asking GWG about why this one http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/based-on-your-experience-at-homebrew-website-club-we-rewrote din't work as a webmention when http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/welcome-to-the-indieweb-jean did
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KevinMarks_ though ti may be a related problem
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kylewm KevinMarks_: could be in moderation too right?
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KevinMarks_ ah, possible, yes
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snarfed anyone here have experience with facebook's new api review process?
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snarfed and/or the read_stream permission?
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atomicules Hello all. Could anyone explain to me what's meant by aggregation in Indiemark 1.2.7 Level 2?
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atomicules (Only heard about Indieweb this year, making my way through Level 1 and 2 as much as possible - Jekyll user)
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snarfed atomicules: looks like it means, when you link to/reply to/repost someone else's post, you show some detail about that post. e.g. an embed for twitter
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snarfed http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieMark#Level_2_aggregation
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snarfed imho don't worry about exactly complying with indiemark too much. just think about what you personally want, then work on that
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tantek welcome atomicules!
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atomicules snarfed: thankyou! So it means if (theoretically at the moment) I post a reply to a tweet on my website, I'd include the user's icon from Twitter, etc?
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snarfed atomicules: sure
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tantek yes, what snarfed said. IndieMark is based on collective experience here, and is a good place to get ideas for what to add
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snarfed or use https://dev.twitter.com/web/embedded-tweets
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tantek atomicules: yes, and there's several levels of reply-context too - you can choose how much you want to support: https://indiewebcamp.com/reply-context#Levels
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atomicules I'm not too worried about my Indiemark score, just wondered what that bit meant.
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tantek cool. snarfed's advice is a good way to do progressive enhancement from just displaying a URL in a reply-context.
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snarfed re facebook's read_stream permission, looks like they're tightening access in the v2.x api, which will kill https://facebook-atom.appspot.com/ entirely. :(
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snarfed from https://developers.facebook.com/docs/facebook-login/permissions/v2.2#reference-read_stream : "This permission is granted to apps building a Facebook-branded client on platforms where Facebook is not already available. For example, Android and iOS apps will not be approved for this permission. In addition, Web, Desktop, in-car and TV apps will not be granted this permission."
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tantek wow
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snarfed i get why they're doing it, but still annoying
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atomicules tantek: Ok, thanks. I'm not keen on moving away from a static site so there maybe limitations of how far I can take things, but really like the idea behind Indieweb
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snarfed actually, scratch that, the app owner still gets read_stream automatically. so i'll just have to degrade the facebook-atom UX to make all users generate their own facebook app keys, like https://facebook-atom.appspot.com/ already does
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snarfed whee
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tantek atomicules: there are a lot of folks here making static sites work - and that's definitely a strong use-case
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tantek a lot of the static sites work with progressive enhancement using JS embeds
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atomicules Ok, thanks. Gives me plenty to think about then.
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tantek if anything, I'd encourage you to continue with the approach that works best for you, and just keep asking questions about the features you want the most!
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atomicules Great, I will do. Thanks for being so welcoming. Appreciated.
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cphyc Hi
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cphyc Just wanted to come there and say thank you to the dev team for Known and all the work around, that's a very nice job!
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kylewm cphyc: welcome! benwerd and erinjo don't seem to be here right now but I'm sure they will see and appreciate your kind words in the logs :)
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KevinMarks_ are you using known yourself cphyc?
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cphyc Yes, for me and a hackerspace in Paris
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KevinMarks_ did you see benwerd when he was in paris in december?
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cphyc No, I wasn't using Known at this moment, so i didn't know(n) him