#indiewebcamp 2015-02-04

2015-02-04 UTC
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tantek
well it's already 124% funded so he's good to go: https://twitter.com/dancounsell/status/562753612116684802
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tantek
can anyone tell what his own site uses? http://dancounsell.com/
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aaronpk
i think it's Kirby
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aaronpk
i may have been quick to jump to that conclusion
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tantek
will be interesting when he starts using typed for his own site
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benwerd
I was going to say, I think Kirby too (from the feed)
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tantek
would it be rude to ask him if he has a selfdogfood ETA?
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aaronpk
i would not call it "selfdogfood" if you do ask him
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tantek
what would you call it?
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aaronpk
but no I don't think it would be rude, something like "wondering when you're planning on running your own website on Typed" or something
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aaronpk
just to avoid introducing a jargon term into the question
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tantek
also the larger question of a good approach to initial contact outreach
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tantek
definitely on topic j12t :)
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tantek.com
edited /UBOS (+257) "dfn, subheads, Features, Articles You're the Boss with UBOS, linky linky"
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tantek
what is UBOS?
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Loqi
UBOS (pronounced You-Boss) is a new Linux distro that aims to make it much simpler to deploy server-side web applications on headless hardware owned by users https://indiewebcamp.com/UBOS
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tantek
what is Linux?
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tantek
what is a distro?
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tantek
what is a server-side web application?
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tantek
what is a web application?
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tantek
what is deploy?
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tantek
what is headless hardware?
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j12t
Thanks tantek
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tantek
j12t ^^^ lots of jargon in the defintion of UBOS ;)
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j12t
Yes. Whoever doesn't understand the jargon is not the right audience for beta1 :-)
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j12t
Will attempt to reduce jargon as less skills are required.
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tantek
that's ok - summary stubs for the jargon by clicking the above links would be nice too!
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tantek
j12t - the steps to install a web app on your own server is depressing (if accurate)
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tantek
"Provisioning a MySQL database" - shudder
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tantek
"Installation of a single app can easily take a few hours and usually requires real Linux admin knowledge. " - yeah
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millette
s/mySQL/mariadb/ there, fixed it ;-)
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tantek
is glad he doesn't have to "provision a file system"
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aaronpk
what? you totally do
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aaronpk
there are even several to choose from!
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j12t
millette: we actually use mariadb on UBOS
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j12t
I didn't talk about file systems, but well, there's always the fun of setting up RAID :-)
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j12t
Next version will automate RAID setup as well, and do automatic file system snapshots
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millette
j12t, I dumped LAMP (kept L) couple of years ago and happy with that
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j12t
millette: it all depends on what you want to do. I for my part don't even want to think about whether it's LAMP or whatever. Just make it work please.
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millette
forgive me, I just jumped in with a light pun I don't actually know what is being discussed
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j12t
millette: No prob: http://ubos.net/ and today's coverage in Linux Magazine: http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/youre-boss-ubos
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j12t
s/Magazine/Journal/
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Loqi
j12t meant to say: millette: No prob: http://ubos.net/ and today's coverage in Linux Journal: http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/youre-boss-ubos
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kylewm
j12t: do a lot of people ask for a comparison with CoreOS? it seems like tackling lots of the same problems
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j12t
kylewm: some of the same principles, you are right, e.g. make it really small. But target audience and use case very different: CoreOS is for data centers, UBOS is for personal servers
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KevinMarks_
re typed, they do say "We’re in this for the long haul, and will be publishing our own blogs with Typed."
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j12t
It's a good comparison for us, because we can point to them as doing "the same thing in the same way" in a different market.
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j12t
Of course the actual tech turns out to be different because the use cases are different.
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kylewm
ah, cool
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millette
j12t, interesting project, best of luck
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j12t
thanks, looking for beta testers and contributors :-)
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millette
have you talked to the http://freedomboxfoundation.org/ people ?
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j12t
Yes I have. We are friends :-)
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j12t
Complementary: they have been doing lots of network-level stuff that we haven't but would love to use some day. We have done lots app-level stuff which they haven't.
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tantek
great to hear j12t
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j12t
Would be a great project to bring some of that to UBOS for somebody ... hint, hint! :-)
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j12t
later, gtg
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tantek
the prospect of running a small web server from home that's as easy (or easier) to admin as a VPS or shared host is really exciting.
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tantek
what is FreedomBox?
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tantek
millette: could you stub ^^^
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millette
was tanteked! Is there a t-shirt? ;-)
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millette
I can take a minute for that, yes
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bret
i might actually try home hosting with the raspi2
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millette
tantek, is it ok if I mostly copy+paste from their site (where it doesn't sound too much like an ad)?
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millette
or is there a prefered format for new pages?
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tantek
what is wikifying?
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Loqi
wikifying is the practice of putting stuff on the wiki, or something in particular on the wiki https://indiewebcamp.com/wikifying
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tantek
rather than copy/paste from their site, try to rephrase a definition so it sounds neutral, factual, and uses indieweb terminology when possible (which should then be [[ ]] linked)
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tantek
but that's a good FAQ and I will ad it
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tantek
s/ ad/ add
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: but that's a good FAQ and I will add it
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tantek.com
edited /start_a_page (+419) "start FAQ with May I copy paste from another site"
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millette
well my minute is over :-) I will edit more in time, I'm here for the long run.
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tantek
millette++
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Loqi
millette has 5 karma
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tantek.com
edited /FreedomBox (+43) "see also"
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tantek
what is CoreOS?
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tantek
kylewm: ^^^ since you asked about CoreOS ;)
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tantek
what is RAID?
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tantek.com
edited /RAID (+61) "dfn, see also"
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tantek
what is RAID?
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Loqi
RAID is an acronym for Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks, a way to protect against disk failure by copying the same data to multiple hard drives https://indiewebcamp.com/RAID
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tantek
What is Typed?
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tantek
KevinMarks ^^^ stub?
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KevinMarks_
What is Typed?
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KevinMarks_
fails at <dfn>
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kevinmarks.com
edited /Typed (+0) "put </dfn> in right place"
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KevinMarks_
What is Typed?
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Loqi
Typed is a proposed blogging silo funded on indiegogo and bring built in Brighton, UK https://indiewebcamp.com/Typed
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tantek.com
edited /Typed (+58) "dfn is for the defined term, not the definition itself. see also"
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tantek.com
edited /Typed (+3) "'''"
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tantek.com
edited /FreeMyOAuth (+0) "update foursquare image"
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tantek.com
edited /deployment (+259) "stub quality still, dfn, see also"
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tantek.com
created /deploy (+24) "r"
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tantek.com
edited /deployment (+211) "articles"
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@bennettscience
Reading up on distributed social networking with Diaspora. Interesting idea to wrap my head around. #indieWeb
(twtr.io/vqht_pcY9c)
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tantek.com
created /announcementware (+240) "stub dfn, with Typed and ind(.)ie phone"
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tantek.com
edited /announcementware (+79) "previous references google search"
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channy.creation.net
created /events/2015-02-07-homebrew-website-club-ko (+2163) "Created page with "= <span class="p-name summary">홈브루 웹사이트 클럽 미트업</span> = == 소개 == === 모임 시간 === <span class="dt-start dtstart"><time class="value">2015-02-07...""
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channy.creation.net
edited /events/2015-02-07-homebrew-website-club-ko (-8) "/* 홈브루 웹사이트 클럽 미트업 */"
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tantek
whoa ^^^!
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tantek.com
edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+34) "move Minneapolis to Past Meetings since organizer moved"
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channy.creation.net
edited /events/2015-02-07-homebrew-website-club-ko (+138) "/* 홈브루 웹사이트 클럽 미트업 */"
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channy.creation.net
edited /events/2015-02-07-homebrew-website-club-ko (+321) "/* 홈브루 웹사이트 클럽 미트업 */"
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indie-visitor
*smoke bomb*
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snarfed
evening indieweb!
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Loqi
snarfed: tantek left you a message 2 days, 3 hours ago: I tried to like this FB photo http://tantek.com/2015/032/f1but got the error message: "Sorry, the Facebook API doesn't support liking pages."
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tantek
delayed messages!
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tantek.com
edited /Twitter (+176) "/* Developer Relations */ New Twitter search API won’t be available to third-party clients"
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channy.creation.net
created /User:Channy.creation.net (+894) "Created page with "'''Channy''' works for [http://aws.amazon.com Amazon Web Services] as a Technology Evangelist in Korea and has promoted Open APIs & Web standards as a developer evangelist in Dau...""
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pfefferle
good morning indieweb
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KevinMarks
Good morning pfefferle
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@adamprocter
Might try and do something with webmentions api and LEDs today if I can get it to recognise rel=me
(twtr.io/vrG_7e4Cwa)
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pfefferle
KevinMarks good morning :)
Jihaisse, friedcell, michielbdejong, sammachin, verdi, petermolnar, interactivist, KevinMarks, thehighfiveghost, Sebastien-L, pfefferle, stream7, Deledrius__, LauraJ, KartikPrabhu, tilgovi and myfreeweb joined the channel
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@kevinmarks
@hyper_linda try https://withknown.com/ - like tumblr, but open source and open web friendly #indieweb
(twtr.io/vrXXdug3Rt)
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@haverholm
@tokeriis Velkommen til (den relative) frihed, Toke! Var IndieWeb-modellen mÃ¥ske en løsning for dig? http://Indiewebcamp.com
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@haverholm
@infonauten Som netop sagt til @tokeriis: http://indiewebcamp.com er et spændende, åbent alternativ med mange forskellige muligheder.
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@kevinmarks
Yes, @anildash we need to teach the government about http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE - use the silos, point to the source
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Loqi
[bridgy] Anil Dash replied '@kevinmarks that's already default policy in many places, and the common way of complying with the Presidential Records Act.' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (https://twitter.com/anildash/status/562954005576683522)
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@adamprocter
Anyone see a reason why rel=me for webmentions.io is not picking up links on http://indiewebify.me/validate-rel-me/?url=http%253A%252F%252Fadamprocter.co.uk #indieweb #webmentions
(twtr.io/vrkeJkUrLY)
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@kevmccord
Lots of interesting custom tables (aka Pages) are added to #ministryplatform databases by @ThinkMinistry churches! #ownyourdata #ChMS
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GWG
Good morning
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pfefferle
good morning GWG
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GWG
Good morning Pfefferle.
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GWG
How are things?
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pfefferle
a bit stessy… need to finish an indieweb article today
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GWG
Good luck.
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GWG
What is it about?
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pfefferle
indieweb in general
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pfefferle
it is for a german magazine
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pfefferle
they want to focus in indieweb
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GWG
I hope it is well received.
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millette
focus an issue on indieweb or the magazine itself?
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pfefferle
millette only one issue
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ben_thatmustbeme
!tell aaronpk, kylewm we were so overthinking noting that a post was already liked by a user. It won't be up to the minute, but the post itself would "ideally" display the like, when its pulled in you would have that info
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@martinlindner
@jweilharter jim groom (der mann dahinter) ist eine schlüsselfigur in der edu-#indieweb-bewegung, eng verbunden mit #openeducation.
(twtr.io/vrxp7pYf29)
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kylewm_
ideally that's true but I subscribe to lots of sites that don't, legacy XML feeds, proxied twitter stream, tantek.com...
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Loqi
kylewm_: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 25 minutes ago: we were so overthinking noting that a post was already liked by a user. It won't be up to the minute, but the post itself would "ideally" display the like, when its pulled in you would have that info
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kylewm_
you would have better luck polling the logged in user's unfiltered feed, looking for like posts
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ben_thatmustbeme
perhaps that should be something thats an issue for your personal site though, allowing multiple "likes" of the same url
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ben_thatmustbeme
so who cares if you like it again]
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ben_thatmustbeme
or maybe they want to like it again (bump it back to top)
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kylewm_
well it would be nice to show "Liked" instead of the button
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ben_thatmustbeme
hmmm, if the person supports deleting you could "unlike" then too
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kylewm_
also lots of sites pull in comments and likes with JavaScript
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kylewm_
unlike would be cool
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ben_thatmustbeme
really? javascript?
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kylewm_
webmention.io, webmention.herokuapp.com
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ben_thatmustbeme
i was just starting to create a github issue btw, when i posted a reply, the reply field should empty and hide
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millette
ben_thatmust, js comments, like https://disqus.com/ I presume
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ben_thatmustbeme
WOAH, also if you subscribe to flutterby.com it basically just takes over your feed
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ben_thatmustbeme
looks like there are no time-stamps, wonder what the proper way to handle that would be
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kylewm_
yeah... right now it assumes anything without a date was published "now" which will be a pretty good approximation after the initial flood
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ben_thatmustbeme
ahh okay, so it does remember when it last polled
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@martinlindner
@jweilharter ich (wie die #indieweb-leute) stimme deinen #educhatDE-tweets zu #blogs vollkommen zu. viel spaß mit dem finanzamt.
(twtr.io/vs034mzeaW)
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bret
evanp posted a bunch of user stories for socialwg: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/User_stories looks pretty complete
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kylewm.com
edited /Woodwind (+518) "/* Itches */"
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gRegor`
Nice pun with the Woodwind name. :)
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snarfed
woodwind++
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Loqi
woodwind has 1 karma
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aaronpk
good morning
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Loqi
aaronpk: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 2 hours, 46 minutes ago: we were so overthinking noting that a post was already liked by a user. It won't be up to the minute, but the post itself would "ideally" display the like, when its pulled in you would have that info
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aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: yes tantek mentioned that yesterday
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ben_thatmustbeme
ah, i missed that
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webgefrickel.de
edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (+302) "/* Participants */"
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@adamprocter
Pretty sure I have set up webmention.io correctly on adamprocter . co .uk bit feed suggests no mentions even when @_inkubator has mentioned
(twtr.io/vsJYqTtr4Z)
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@kevinmarks
@adamprocter @_inkubator to get webmentions from twitter you need to set up brid.gy as well
(twtr.io/vsJfrusQ6Q)
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KevinMarks_
hm, socialWG use case? A posts a note containing the word "indieweb" K is notified by a persistent keyword search, and responds to A's post
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aaronpk
add it!
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aaronpk
we'll see if anyone argues it's out of scope because it might require federation or somethig
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tantek
kylewm: lol at being put in a list with legacy XML feeds
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tantek
there is something tragic about that
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tantek
at least realistic, not everything is sunshine and flowers
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kylewm
and when pump.io launched and moved everyone over from statusnet, there was no way to delete your account
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kylewm
and for a while that was the most requested feature by a lot
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kylewm
which has to suck
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KevinMarks_
btw kylewm, do you pin "published" to current time when crawling? (if you don't you may get posts in the future due to timezone issues)
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KevinMarks_
"John realizes he was actually playing the tuba, not the guitar."
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kylewm
KevinMarks_: they're all utc... it is still a problem because the feeds are not all polled at the same time
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kylewm
so you might get a post from 5 minutes ago and then later poll another feed and get one from 45 minutes ago
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kylewm
and i miss it unless i scroll down a bit
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KevinMarks_
"John decides not to post while on ambien next time"
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cweiske
tantek, could we talk about the phorkie problem of yesterday a bit? my problem is that there are two use cases (working with the paste vs. embedding the paste) which require different information (working requires edit buttons, while embedding does not. embedding requires a style sheet that's as standalone as possible, the normal phorkie display does not). should this all be expressed in the same HTML code?
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tantek
cweiske if it can all be expressed in the same HTML code, it should be. and it usually can.
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tantek
the edit buttons are interesting in particular, as they could also be /webactions which enable the reader to perform edit actions on their own site, and syndicate to phorkie
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cweiske
use case for embeds are to embed syntax-highlighted code in your blog. it shouldn't be in the readers way, and buttons would distract
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ben_thatmustbeme
kylewm, btw, i had a pull req for woodwind on how to put html first
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ben_thatmustbeme
i should be able to tackle the js fix from home sometime
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Loqi
it is probable
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cweiske
also, embeds have the file name below the code, while it's above on the real phorkie pages
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kylewm
ben_thatmustbeme: i saw it, thanks! will merge and deploy when i have a chance
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gRegor`
Interesting numbers/advice from superfeedr: http://blog.superfeedr.com/wh-fetches-our-blog-feed/
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tantek
cweiske: there's a lot to be documented/explored for the special-cases of /code posts - and I think the details you point out (for different uses thereof) are important
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gregorlove.com
created /Superfeedr (+134) "stub"
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kylewm
gRegor`: that's super interesting
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willnorris
allow me to introduce the newest (and most certainly the youngest) member of the indie web: https://gabenorris.com/
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Loqi
willnorris: snarfed left you a message 3 weeks, 6 days ago: hi! quick question: bridgy is hitting the G+ API daily courtesy quota, and i'd like to request a bump, but i'm a bit scared to bring any attention to it. do you have any feeling for whether the G+ team would be ok with bridgy, or whether they'd ban hammer it? (i'll ask other friends there too, but you have the most direct experience. :P details: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/22 )
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gRegor`
What is Superfeedr?
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Loqi
Superfeedr is a feed API that supports PubSubHubbub https://indiewebcamp.com/Superfeedr
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gRegor`
^ Feel free to expand
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snarfed
willnorris: ignore that, we're fine w/g+ quota now
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snarfed
more importantly, congratulations!!!
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willnorris
thanks :)
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gRegor`
indiewebkids++
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Loqi
indiewebkids has 1 karma
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gRegor`
Nice illustration on that page, and congratulations willnorris!
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KevinMarks_
congratulations Will
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willnorris
he’s about 15 hours old, and already has level 6 security on http://indiewebcamp.com/https :) A little ways to go on indiemark, since he can’t easily do indieauth without any profiles anywhere
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gRegor`
Haha
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willnorris
err, level 5? whatever it is
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KevinMarks_
great parenting there, getting his domain so soon. my boys were teenagers before I bought them domains
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KevinMarks_
love the xfn "met"
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benwerd
That's awesome!
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benwerd
willnorris: congratulations!
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willnorris
that was my favoriate part of the commit as well :)
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snarfed
+1 to preemptive domains for kids. :P i haven't done nearly as much with http://brookebarrett.org/ though
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KevinMarks_
I do wonder if choosing baby names these days involves a lot of use of whois
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willnorris
we certainly didn’t chose a name because of domain availability, but I did preemptively buy quite a few domains for names we didn’t end up choosing
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willnorris
s/chose/choose*/
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Loqi
willnorris meant to say: we certainly didn’t choose* a name because of domain availability, but I did preemptively buy quite a few domains for names we didn’t end up choosing
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willnorris
might hang on to them for a few years in case we have a second
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tantek
congratulations willnorris!!!
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cweiske.de
uploaded /File:phorkie_embed.png "Source code from a paste on [[phorkie]] embedded in a HTML page"
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@adamprocter
@barryf made sure Ive turned on bridg.y (twitter)webmentions.io stuff just on homepage but still broke/test just says web mention queued :(
(twtr.io/vsRUqLdku8)
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KevinMarks_
http://junebre.blogspot.no/2015/02/hrt-om-indieweb.html looks liek the beginnign of a Norwegian translation fo the homepage
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KevinMarks_
but what is that logo?
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cweiske.de
uploaded /File:phorkie_paste.png "Paste display in [[phorkie]]"
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cweiske.de
edited /code (+1010) "add source code embedding"
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kylewm
KevinMarks_: looks like it's from http://www.indieweb.co.nz/
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KevinMarks_
hah, oops
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kylewm
"visually similar" images on google includes the indiewebcamp logo, and a picture of tantek's face
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kylewm
which are not particularly visually similar...
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cweiske.de
edited /git (+225) "/* POSSE */"
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tantek
kylewm: got another 403 forbidden error from Bridgy Publish trying to like a FB post (photo in this case) http://tantek.com/2015/035/f1
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kylewm
tl;dr it's not reliably possible to get the facebook ID of a post from its permalink URL
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kylewm
as far as we can tell
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KevinMarks_
hah, I didn't know about .web tld http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.web
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tantek
waits for .www tld and then the mad rush to setup com.example.www
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tantek
and all the other reversed domain hiearchy examples in the wild or in use in systems like com.apple.*
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KevinMarks_
moc.elpmaxe.www
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme, aaronpk, kylewm the question of how to display a like button in a reader is an interesting one.
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tantek
as noted, a reader should display (at least the presence of) the likes (responses in general) on a post
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tantek
at a minimum it can retrieve these from the post permalink itself
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tantek
secondarily it can query its own cache of posts to see if any of them are "likes" (etc.) of a particular post, and display those as well
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ben_thatmustbeme
It in that case referring to the reader
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tantek
right
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ben_thatmustbeme
yeah, so the reader knows if you like from within the reader, the reader knows you liked a post, if the post is displaying it
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tantek
the challenge you're running into with a "like" button is the variety of possible states it could display
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tantek
step one - list all those states
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tantek
step two - figure out a UI for them
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ben_thatmustbeme
1, post is liked by user and post is displaying like, post is liked by user and post is not displaying like, post is not liked by user
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ben_thatmustbeme
i only see those 3 states
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tantek
there are more, based on all the questions you and aaronpk have already asked
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ben_thatmustbeme
well, i suppose there could be "user has not liked the post but it is displaying on the post" if a like was deleted, but i think for the current implementation we are leaving out removing likes
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tantek
"liked" - a reader for example can know that you *have* liked something, via its own cache, or a post claiming you've liked something, with a link to the permalink of your like post (verifiability of a like)
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tantek
then there are all the substates of where a post doesn't show that you've liked it
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tantek
of which there are several possibilities
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tantek
- post does not show likes
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tantek
- post has not "approved" your like (moderation of responses)
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ben_thatmustbeme
yes, but i don't know that we really need to know the process of a external site, those two don't matter to us
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tantek
- post has not received a like from you
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tantek
(i.e. webmention fail of somesort)
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tantek
- you have not liked the post
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tantek
the possibility of ambiguity is important
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ben_thatmustbeme
well i think it comes back then to the only way to really know that state is to poll the user's own site (assuming it stored the status of the webmention)
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tantek
i.e. the reader may know that you've *tried* to like a post (either via a like post of yours the reader has cached), or via the reader's own "like" button.
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tantek
such a "pending like" is something to indicate in the UI
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tantek
so the user doesn't bother trying to re-like something
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ben_thatmustbeme
hmm, personally, i don't consider a like "pending" once i have posted it publicly, the site i'm liking aggregating it or not is another issue
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ben_thatmustbeme
but yes, all of this is intended to stop the user trying to re-like something.
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KevinMarks_
so states are 1. not liked 2. like sent by micropub 3. like confirmed by reading users site 4. webmention sent to liked site 5. webmention accepted by liked site
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KevinMarks_
you need that order or the webmention won't succeed
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek is pointing out that there is a lot of drill down in to 4.
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KevinMarks_
so there are 4 pending states there
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ben_thatmustbeme
also 6. like displayed on liked site
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tantek
the key is to capture the states which are actionable by the user
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tantek
1. not liked = user can try to like the post
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tantek
2. user liked in reader, reader posting via micropub to user's site
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tantek
2a. reader posting via micropub succeeded (if failed, same as 1)
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tantek
3. user has a like of the post on their own site
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@adamprocter
I think my webmentions may also be working now :D oh no now I have to connect this json to my Arduino now #st4i
(twtr.io/vsXfdba5AQ)
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tantek
4. reader has sent a webmention from user's site to post
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Loqi
!calc 4. reader has sent a webmention from user's site to post
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tantek
4a. webmention accepted
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tantek
4b. or webmention rejected
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tantek
5. liked post itself shows a like from the user
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tantek
(1) is difficult to know "for sure"
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ben_thatmustbeme
do you think 4b. should be broken down?
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tantek
possibly
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ben_thatmustbeme
rejected vs failed
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tantek
we should collect/document that at least
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tantek
from a user-perspective, I think there are four states
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ben_thatmustbeme
although is that more an issue of the negotiation/retry on the site side, not something the reader should ccare about
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tantek
1. user has not liked that post
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tantek
2. reader does not know if user has liked that post
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tantek
3. reader knows user has *tried* to like that post, but can't confirm it on the post
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tantek
4. reader sees that user has liked the post
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tantek
(1) could be an empty heart/star
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tantek
(4) could be a red/gold heart/star
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tantek
and the hard part is figuring out the inbetween
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ben_thatmustbeme
(3) a yellow / half and half
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tantek
(2) could be a gray filled heart / star (gay indicating unknown)
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tantek
(3) could be some form of half red/gold, either spatially, or dithered / colortone.
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tantek
between the "gray" and the red/gold heart/star
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ben_thatmustbeme
we had been trying to figure out a way to be able to clarify (2) into the other groups, which is where things get complex
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: probably worth documenting the problem now in a "Brainstorming" section on /reader
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ben_thatmustbeme
perhaps we can just insert chat link for now
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ben_thatmustbeme
actually i don't think (1) and (2) make sense
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tantek
I think they're quite important to distinguish
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ben_thatmustbeme
the reader cannot know for sure that the user has not liked that post without knowing for sure that a user has liked that post
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tantek
right!
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tantek
hence the simplest like button implementation is gray filled
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tantek
assume reader knows not
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ben_thatmustbeme
hmm, so start at (2)
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tantek
exactly
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tantek
and the implement the states in order of easiest to hardest
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ben_thatmustbeme
then try to determine some way (poll site for more info) then you can say 1 or 3
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tantek
note that any indie post with webactions has this same proble
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tantek
s/proble/problem
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: note that any indie post with webactions has this same problem
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tantek
e.g. I have an (empty star) Like button on my notes: http://tantek.com/2015/033/t1/disable-flash-vulnerability-zeroday
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tantek
but probably should be a light gray filled star to indicate the lack of knowledge of whether the post has been liked or not
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ben_thatmustbeme
same for Repost
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tantek
that's already gray filled, as is reply
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ben_thatmustbeme
i mean in general, repost would be something you would have a set of states for
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tantek
all of which *could* be colored solid if the site knew the reader had done that action already
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ben_thatmustbeme
or would repost make sense to be something you would do more than once?
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ben_thatmustbeme
the so-called "Bump"
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tantek
what do silos do?
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tantek
bump is something else
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tantek
like a weak form of pin
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tantek
e.g. repost in Twitter, retweet, is a toggle
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aaronpk
this is gonna take a while to catch up on from the logs
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tantek
if you retweet something, then click the colored in retweet button, it gives you the option to unretweet (confirm), which deletes the retweet post from your timeline, and resets the button to gray.
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tantek
whereas in FB/G+ if you "share" something (their name for "repost"), it's not clear if you can unshare it (besides explicit deletion), or if you can reshare it
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tantek
in twitter you can only reretweet something if you've unretweeted it
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tantek
however reply is different - as it certainly makes sense to reply to a post more than once with different replies
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tantek
though a reader that *knew* you'd replied to a post could show you your previous reply / replies if any before opening a text box to write a new (another) reply.
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tantek
none of this is unique to a reader BTW
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tantek
all of these problem / challenges apply to *any* display of webactions buttons
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tantek
whether in a reader, or on a post permalink
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: perhaps capture this in a new "button states" subsection in (at the end of) the http://indiewebcamp.com/webactions#Brainstorming section ?
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tantek
noting it's applicability to readers and permalinks?
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KevinMarks_
so map these to stages in the twitter heart icon?
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tantek
twitter does not heart
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tantek
though the comparison to twitter is a good one, as wherever you display an embedded tweet, assuming you load/run Twitter's JS, the embedded tweet shows the webaction buttons in a state reflecting what the (logged in) user has done with them.
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tantek
indieweb posts should work the same way
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tantek
whether on their post permalink page, or when embedded inside another site (in a quote, in a reader etc.), if they have webactions buttons, those buttons should reflect the user's interaction if any with the post.
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KevinMarks_
the animates star thingy they do on ios
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ben_thatmustbeme
i'll try to update tonight, heading home now
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KevinMarks_
this is iOS only
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tantek
BTW - ben_thatmustbeme - what NOT to do if the user clicks a fully red/gold heart/star - display an error like "You are not allowed to do that." or "An error occured" and "Try reloading the page". (i.e. what Twitter does if you try to favorite something that's already favorited)
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tantek
notes that there is no mention of "tag" on https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/User_stories
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aaronpk
oo do we need to add some tagging use cases?
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tantek
SWAT0 has person tagging
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tantek
we could use broader tagging, hasthtagging, location tagging
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aaronpk
accidentally ran that through google translate and read it in german
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benwerd
adds "esperanto translation of UI" to list
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