#indiewebcamp 2015-02-15

2015-02-15 UTC
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tantek thanks
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pdurbin tantek: I mean, podcast feeds are always RSS, right? That's my understanding. Maybe Atom sometimes? I dunno. It just works. :)
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tantek GWG is also right about not making an enemies list. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-14/line/1423945640818
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tantek pdurbin: good questions. I honestly don't know the answer. All we can do is document what we do know and what currently works.
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tantek at least to start with
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tantek pdurbin: do you publish a podcast?
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pdurbin there's no mention of Atom at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podcast . Just RSS.
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tantek I doubt most of that wikipedia article is written by people who either publish or consume podcasts
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pdurbin tantek: nope. I'm vaguely interested in publishing one. Takes time.
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tantek pdurbin: so it's only a minor itch for you. got it.
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GWG I have posting a podcast regularly.
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tantek aaronpk, re: logos on wikipedia - great - let them figure it out and then hotlink wikipedia's images if you must.
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snarfed pdurbin: itunes (proprietary) is actually the dominant distribution channel for podcasts, at least by market share
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snarfed rss/atom too, definitely, but afaik smaller
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pdurbin snarfed: there's some new thing too. Stitcher? I forget. But yeah, iTunes is certainly popular. But in my experience there's always an RSS feed. I list some here: http://podcasts.greptilian.com
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GWG I've never used iTunes.
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GWG And I listen to a few podcasts
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snarfed pdurbin: often but not always. hence hacks like http://picklemonkey.net/feedflipper-home/
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snarfed (or at least, the rss feed sometimes isn't advertised)
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pdurbin snarfed: huh. Feed Flipper seems nice! Thanks!
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tantek snarfed, apologies for the ugliness of mediawiki syntax. I am more than happy to do syntax cleanup/fixup for any content you want to just copy/paste in as plain text.
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tantek just do an edit, and leave me a !tell
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snarfed tantek: thanks for the offer! i'm just lazy though. ignore me
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tantek I approve of such laziness :)
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tantek also, sad to hear about FB API breakage hurting Bridgy :(
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snarfed.org edited /podcast (+500) "publish/consume" (view diff)
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snarfed tantek: yup. hurting every app that wants to posse/pesos! there are lots of anecdotal stories of other apps being hurt or even shutting down due to the 2.x api. whee.
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tantek acegiak, re: audio and video should (not) be separate kinds from note/article, the whole point is different presentation
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tantek snarfed: is there some way to capture this perhaps in http://indiewebcamp.com/Facebook#API_Degradation ?
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tantek with dates?
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snarfed tantek: already captured in the posse/pesos sections on that page
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tantek like everytime they make something worse
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tantek having a timeline of these breakages would be useful
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snarfed we can duplicate it in other sections if you want
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tantek snarfed - only semi-duplicate I guess.
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tantek I mean, the API Degradation criticism should include the full history
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tantek whereas POSSE/PESOS section can simply summarize the current state with limitations
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tantek both are important/useful for different uses
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acegiak tantek: the problem with having a video/audio/picture kind is that sometimes I will want to use multiple pieces of media in a post?
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acegiak and then it's, what, a note? an article?
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tantek acegiak hence many of us use very few *explicit* kinds, and instead add properties, and use those to determine *implicit* kinds
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acegiak so then why were they different when there was just one?
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tantek acegiak: this is discussed in this section: http://indiewebcamp.com/posts#Kinds_of_Posts
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acegiak yeah, that makes sense
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tantek including the alternative of http://indiewebcamp.com/posts#Inferring_post_kinds_from_properties
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GWG acegiak: I used photo because of featured image support in WordPress. It doesn't use the content at all in my theme.
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tantek so you're asking the right questions, and the answer right now is, sometimes a new explicit kind makes sense, othertimes it is unnecessary
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tantek that seems to somewhat depend per person
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tantek so we're still figuring it out
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tantek however many of the newer kinds of posts have been done via properties only and implying post kind
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acegiak tantek: yeah, makes sense
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acegiak I think my plan is to only have explicit post kinds for describing the relationship to other content
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tantek feel free to try to approach that makes the most sense for you, your site, your presentation of various "kinds" of posts, and report back what you figure out!
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tantek s/try to/try an
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Loqi tantek meant to say: feel free to try an approach that makes the most sense for you, your site, your presentation of various "kinds" of posts, and report back what you figure out!
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acegiak cause we're using/working on the same set of wordpress plugins it's a matter of trying to avoid a forking tangle
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tantek also currently we discourage explicit new post kinds: http://indiewebcamp.com/posts#New_Post_Types
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acegiak yeah
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tantek and with that, it's time for afternoon coffee
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tantek I should say, *now* it is time for afternoon coffee.
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tantek seems the server is a few seconds behind my laptop :P
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Loqi definitely
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tantek thanks Loqi
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Loqi you're welcome
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tantek gives Loqi a chance to chill.
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Loqi investigates the chance to chill.
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GWG So, we need a solution. I'm not against putting something in as I did, and hiding it from displaying.
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acegiak GWG: I'm a fan of fiddling till it feels right
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GWG That's why I'm not pushing anything to the .org repository until I'm more certain.
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GWG I'll play with it in dev.
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acegiak yeah exactly
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acegiak on my site at least I would probably get rid of photo/article/note and just have "post" and then adjust the presentation based on whether or not I give the post a title
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acegiak cause I crazy like that
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acegiak but I'm not gonna make that change yet
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acegiak I'm ust fiddlin with scrobblin
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GWG acegiak: I did start putting in a file for multi-kind. But that is a longer term issue.
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acegiak GWG: yeah I understand that it would mess with your core strucutre etc
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GWG acegiak: That is why I set it up as a separate file, so different functions could be written in.
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GWG Instead of modding existing stuff.
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Loqi [bridgy] Johannes Ernst replied '@kylewm2 @davewiner @t 2. Be at liberty to run whatever code you choose against your data. No lock-in between data and code.' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/friendly (https://twitter.com/Johannes_Ernst/status/566758887152308224)
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Loqi [bridgy] Johannes Ernst replied '@kylewm2 @davewiner @t 2. Be at liberty to run whatever code you choose against your data. No lock-in between data and code.' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/principles (https://twitter.com/Johannes_Ernst/status/566758887152308224)
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Loqi [bridgy] Johannes Ernst replied '@kylewm2 @davewiner @t 3. for 1 and 2, don't depend on somebody else's terms of service that might change over time against your will.' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/friendly (https://twitter.com/Johannes_Ernst/status/566758893963866112)
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Loqi [bridgy] Johannes Ernst replied '@kylewm2 @davewiner @t 3. for 1 and 2, don't depend on somebody else's terms of service that might change over time against your will.' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/principles (https://twitter.com/Johannes_Ernst/status/566758893963866112)
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acegiak.net edited /podcast (+231) "adding whisperfollow example" (view diff)
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acegiak.net edited /podcast (+9) "I am bad at wiki" (view diff)
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Loqi [bridgy] Dave Winer ☮ replied '@Johannes_Ernst @kylewm2 @t -- please put this on a blog! it's close to useless in this form. i'm sure you appreciate the irony. ;-)' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/friendly (https://twitter.com/davewiner/status/566762236879069185)
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Loqi [bridgy] Dave Winer ☮ replied '@Johannes_Ernst @kylewm2 @t -- please put this on a blog! it's close to useless in this form. i'm sure you appreciate the irony. ;-)' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/principles (https://twitter.com/davewiner/status/566762236879069185)
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acegiak.net edited /podcast (+444) "podcast format" (view diff)
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acegiak GWG: did you say you'd pushed the changes about themes registering support for post kinds?
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GWG acegiak: No. I said I planned on it after you finished.
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acegiak ah ok
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GWG I was adding a microformats2 support option
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GWG snarfed: I'm looking at the micropub options right now
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snarfed great!
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GWG snarfed: I think you could store the elements as post meta, which would allow the theme to decide how to render them
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snarfed GWG: sure, of course. my question is, do we have a standard format for the keys and values yet
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snarfed post kinds'? semantic linkbacks'? something else?
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GWG snarfed: What if we start with my standard format for a response and add to it?
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GWG I need a place on the wiki to document this.
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GWG Any ideas on a page name?
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GWG WordPress_Metadata?
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gRegor` GWG: My friend would like to not display 'like' webmentions. Don't expect that as a feature in the plugin, but would it be relatively easy to hack that in the theme? Haven't dug into the code yet; thought I'd ask first.
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GWG gRegor`: Yes and no. You'd have to do a custom query to filter them out.
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GWG snarfed: Creating a WordPress metadata page on the wiki
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gRegor` Though with the impending death of FB on Bridgy, wonder if she'll want to keep the plugin around for just g+ and Twitter.
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gRegor` That's a real bummer.
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snarfed gRegor`: only comment and like publishing are dying. listen (ie wms) isn't going anywhere
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snarfed nor post publishing
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gRegor` Ohh
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gRegor` I misread then. Phew.
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snarfed GWG: great! comparing yours and semantic linkbacks would be a good start. also finding any others
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KartikPrabhu so some one else also doesn't want to display likes :P
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GWG snarfed: That is why I'm going to document.
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snarfed sounds easy with a few css rules
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snarfed thanks GWG!
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GWG gRegor`: I didn't think of CSS.
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gRegor` KartikPrabhu: Different reasoning, I think. I think she just doesn't like the way the WP plugin lists "so-and-so liked on plus.google.com"
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KevinMarks http://www.gocomics.com/foxtrot/2006/09/23/
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gRegor` She said she did like mine, which just says "liked this - [permalink date]"
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gRegor` Oh yeah, good idea.
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gRegor` (CSS hiding)
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gRegor` snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 84 karma
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kylewm lol at the comments
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kylewm on that comic
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acegiak GWG: in mf2_s : wp_enqueue_style( 'mf2_s-style', get_stylesheet_directory_uri() . '/site.min.css' );
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acegiak using get_stylesheet_directory_url breaks child themes
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acegiak use get_template_directory_uri() like the other lines around it
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KevinMarks Have you looked at the facepile style of likes?
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KevinMarks Webmention.herokuapp.com does it
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GWG acegiak: Fixed
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acegiak ta
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KevinMarks http://www.kevinmarks.com/newclues.html#webmentions
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KevinMarks Eg
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KevinMarks That might be a way to handle them
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david.shanske.com created /WordPress_Data (+1894) "Created page with "In order to ensure interoperability between Indieweb WordPress plugins, as much as possible, the same data structures should be used. = Taxonomies = Currently used for the [Po..."" (view diff)
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GWG Okay. Starting there
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GWG Will add more after I put food in heating device.
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acegiak I have a watched entry!
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acegiak submitted manually, but still
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snarfed thanks GWG! a few suggestions: maybe reconsider structure, since geodata is stored in metadata, and clarify the response fields, specifically what are the post metadata string keys in the db?
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GWG snarfed: I plan to clear it up
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snarfed thans!
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GWG Also want to see what ideas others have.
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GWG For example, I'm not supporting date in a response, but it is in the wiki as a data field that could be supported in the future.
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GWG It's an indiemark issue
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GWG In Geodata, I have an extra field that matches microformats, but isn't part of the standard, so it is backward compatible.
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GWG acegiak: You are still here, right? You have any ideas?
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acegiak is this for checkins?
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KevinMarks Listening to Stewart talk about slack, I bad a thought for loqi and Tantek ing
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KevinMarks If someone says "what is x?" and loqi gives the make it prompt
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GWG acegiak: This is documenting data structures for use by WordPress plugins
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KevinMarks And someone says "x is blah blah" could loqi make a stub dfn page?
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acegiak GWG: oh the way data is stored in wordpress?
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acegiak so is htere data that microformats uses for geo that wordpress doesn't normally store?
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GWG acegiak: Exactly. If we all store the same way....
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GWG acegiak: One thing.
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GWG venue
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GWG I added it
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acegiak are you storing it in the same format that wordpress stores it's geo?
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GWG acegiak: Yes. For cross-compatibility.
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acegiak sounds great
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GWG acegiak, snarfed: It is making me think of changing my storage of syndication URLs.
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acegiak see I'm not even storing/displaying my syndication urls at the moment
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GWG I'm using an array with the key as the name of the service.
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GWG Wondering if I should eliminate the key and, like micropub, store just an array of URLs.
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GWG Since I style based on this CSS... a[href*="facebook.com"]::before to add the social icons...it would be identical.
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GWG Thoughts anyone?
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GWG Those people storing syndication URLs on other platforms, how do you store it?
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gRegor` GWG: Mysql column, data type text.
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gRegor` My UI only lets me input one syndication link currently since that's all I've used, but when I add support for multiple, it will just be a newline character separating each link.
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GWG gRegor`: So, just a basic array without keys?
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GWG That is where I was thinking
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gRegor` No array.
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GWG Okat
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GWG Okay.
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gRegor` It's a mysql column of data type "text"
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GWG This would be too, when stored.
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GWG WordPress automatically converts arrays to strings and back as metadata if you want
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gRegor` I don't know what you'd need the array structure for.
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gRegor` wp_postmeta has a post_id field, right?
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gRegor` serializing/unserializing seems unnecessary
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GWG gRegor`: It was just the difference between doing it yourself and using the WordPress metadata system
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GWG You are suggesting the interface be a textbox with each line being a URL?
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GWG Hmm...that is very simple and would probably work better than anything more complicated
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tantek GWG++ for naming his new page _data instead of _metadata
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Loqi GWG has 72 karma
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GWG I'm rethinking
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david.shanske.com edited /WordPress_Data (+250) (view diff)
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GWG I think I will go for the simpler structure proposal.
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gRegor` GWG: If it's possible with WordPress custom fields, or whatever method you're using, I think that's good.
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GWG It is. And expandable. No changes would be required to add new support.
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GWG I'm changing for that reason
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GWG You can then POSSE whatever you want.
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GWG I have to do a rewrite, but that's my problem
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gRegor` The only way I can think to make it simpler UX is an individual text field for each syndication URL and a button to 'add another' but that gets into javascript and could complicate things more, however slightly
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GWG gRegor`: I did that. I'm going back.
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gRegor` ^Removes some of the rooo for user error
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GWG gRegor`: You can do that with an error checking function as well.
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gRegor` Like check for spaces on each line and show a warning message?
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gRegor` Guess that could work
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GWG strip spaces.
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GWG Check for valid URLs before saving
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gRegor` I'm referring to input error handing, what if people enter them all on one line instead of on separate lines
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GWG WordPress recommends sanitizing inputs anyway
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gRegor` Of course. Always.
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gRegor` But I'm talking about validation
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GWG And there is a precedent. WordPress has a blacklist that is one entry per line.
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GWG So WordPress users should be used to it
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david.shanske.com edited /WordPress_Data (+302) "/* Rel-Syndication */" (view diff)
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GWG There
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GWG I was going to rewrite that plugin anyway
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GWG Now that that is done, what is missing?
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GWG Oh, yes. I have to document Semantic Linkbacks
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david.shanske.com edited /WordPress_Data (+517) "/* Metadata */" (view diff)
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@sandeepshetty RT @hmans: Roses are red Violets are blue Send me a Webmention And maybe I'll HTTP GET you (twitter.com/_/status/566793259427434496)
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tantek good to see sandeep's still watching :)
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tantek but darn - that wasn't an indie repost
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GWG You fear someone has turned to the dark side?
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tantek nah - more likely some level of lost interest
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tantek or other things got more important
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tantek it happens to all of us from time to time
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tantek and it's ok
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tantek looks like sandeep's last repost (still on his home page!) was http://sandeep.shetty.in/2013/06/indieweb-repost-test.html in 2013 when we were still figuring out reposts, it even uses the old/first-draft u-repost instead of the u-repost-of that we settled on.
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GWG I've seen his name, but I've never seen him.
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tantek GWG - I don't know if anyone here has ever met him
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tantek but he created webmention, upon which we've built so much
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GWG That's an achievement worth citing
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ben_thatmust wow, i always figured aaronpk and tantek created it
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tantek ben_thatmust: I believe barnabywalters *found* it, somewhat randomly, on the web, and introduced it to this community.
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tantek and we've been refining it ever since
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KartikPrabhu oh I didn't know webmention was "found"
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tantek but sandeepshetty is certainly the inventor of webmention
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KartikPrabhu oh that clarifies
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ben_thatmust oh wow, history lesson
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tantek oh wow, we have "history"
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tantek (this still all feels "new" to me :) )
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ben_thatmust i'm already getting dragged in deeper than I ever planned to be
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tantek snarfed, got another 403 from trying to like a public FB post from a person. I think I'm starting to resign myself to manually POSSEing likes to FB. Thaks for trying.
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ben_thatmust thanks to you *glares at tantek*
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snarfed tantek: yup, i saw. good timing, i'm starting on the change to disable like/comment support. sad. RIP.
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ben_thatmust yeah, sad to see that piece go snarfed
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ben_thatmust but it just gives me less reason to use FB
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tantek I am really enjoying posting likes on my own site
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snarfed served us well for almost a year
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snarfed tantek: glad to hear it!
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tantek it's like "positive bookmarking"
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snarfed agreed
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GWG But now they can't go anywhere without more work
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GWG Maybe that is the next frontier
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snarfed s/anywhere/facebook/
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GWG Reading.
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GWG snarfed: You don't think other services will do the same?
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snarfed doesn't necessarily follow, no
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tantek snarfed, check this out: I liked two things by the same person *from different sites*, and my code figured out to not have to repeat their name! top of http://tantek.com/
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tantek (one's a page on squarespace, the other is a facebook post)
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snarfed sweet! nice collapsing logic
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tantek thanks! that was my goal, to have it read nicely, and be about the person/author, not what (silo) they might happen to post at
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ben_thatmust_ I still need to get original post discover working
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snarfed kylewm has talked about standing up a service for that
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snarfed either part of bridgy or standalone
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snarfed shouldn't be too hard as part of bridgy, at least for bridgy users
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tantek pretty sure barnabywalters even had a browser add-on which would rewrite Twitter pages to show you original posts inline
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ben_thatmust_ would be cool with bridgy
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tantek.com created /JSONLD (+21) "r" (view diff)
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GWG ben_thatmust_: You showed off people-focused communication on your site at the last Cambridge event? Or am I misremembering?
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tantek GWG, pretty sure it's in the /2014/Cambridge demos page
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ben_thatmust_ i did
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ben_thatmust_ mine uses login / whitelist to get any more info than you would get from the homepage though
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ben_thatmust_ Tim Owens created his too
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ben_thatmust_ !tell aaronpk have a look at this http://stackoverflow.com/questions/25352111/nodejs-einaros-ws-connection-timeout
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ben_thatmust_ goodnight all
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Loqi sweet dreams
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ben_thatmust_ thanks Loqi
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Loqi you're welcome
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GWG !tell acegiak Going to bed earlier this time. Looking forward to seeing where you got.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@hmans @sandeepshetty ... I guess the latter is moving outside of IndieWeb scope. (twitter.com/_/status/566886730058706944)
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@sandeepshetty @hmans It's great to see an implementation of "follow" (asymmetric relationship) using webmention. (twitter.com/_/status/566890031545995264)
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@hmans @sandeepshetty Sure - or ping me on IRC, I'm usually in #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/566891435577053184)
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@bookprescom Listen To This: Why So Mad? from This American Life >> http://t.co/ApP1pHgXrz #SocialMedia Tip from Matt Hollowell. #SelfPublish #IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/566899766966386688)
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@achorism IndieWeb Twitter 댓글 연동 http://achor.net/board/diary/1589 계획대로 설 연휴를 맞이하여 Twitter 연동을! 일단 Facebook 보다 어려웠습니다. 연동하면서 가졌던 고민과 나름의 해결... (twitter.com/_/status/566924620469526528)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.moongold.me.uk/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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@mapkyca @edent @OpenRightsGroup Case study of why silo's suck :/ Have you considered #indieweb events from your own site? Pushed to twitter/fb etc (twitter.com/_/status/566969596612464641)
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@mapkyca @edent @OpenRightsGroup Silos, even. More coffee needed. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/566970074310131713)
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@amblin @chadfowler The Internet of silos. #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/566984367596396544)
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david.shanske.com edited /WordPress_Data (+16) "/* Rel-Syndication */" (view diff)
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snarfed hey GWG, i'm looking at how to store mf2 props in wp again
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snarfed thanks again for writing https://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress_Data !
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GWG snarfed: It helped me too.
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snarfed it looks like post kinds is the only prior art that stores more than one or two mf2 props
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GWG snarfed: I spent the morning rewriting my syndication links plugin to store URLs as a single data field.
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snarfed yow, ok
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snarfed re post kinds' storage model…i like it, but for storing mf2 props for use across plugins/themes, i'd suggest a couple changes
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GWG snarfed: That was the one I planned to add the Social, SNAP, and Bridgy integrations from the other plugin into anyway.
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GWG snarfed: Please do.
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snarfed first, mf2 already has a vocabulary, so i'm inclined to use those terms verbatim
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snarfed (ie name instead of title, published instead of datetime, etc)
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GWG snarfed: That was the purpose of writing it out. It can be changed.
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snarfed second, wp convention seems to be to use individual keys and values, not an array, so i'm inclined to do that.
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@jevdemon Independent web principles. Why I love #indieweb. http://upon2020.com/blog/2015/02/independent-web-principles/ (twitter.com/_/status/566995513312960514)
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snarfed so e.g. in-reply-to would be stored in the post_meta key `mf2_in_reply_to`, with possibly multiple values
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GWG snarfed: Many plugins use arrays actually
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snarfed GWG: sure, but i suspect only for themselves
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snarfed the examples of *standards* that i've seen, e.g. geodata, seem to be straight keys/values more often
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snarfed or is that not your experience?
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GWG Well, the rationale for an array is fewer database calls, I believe.
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@gitano “Broadening the IndieWeb process” by @davewiner http:///@davewiner/broadening-the-indieweb-process-b34edec356d1 (twitter.com/_/status/566996147936722944)
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snarfed huh. seems like a silly reason. you can fetch multiple values with e.g. `…meta_key IN (key1, key2, …)`
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GWG I'm willing to go back to individual fields if there is a standard.
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GWG I started with them.
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GWG The more important thing is to have the standard, I think.
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snarfed eh arrays do seem to be common too, if silly
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snarfed i'll poke around more
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GWG I will make one change either way
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david.shanske.com edited /WordPress_Data (+5) "/* Response */" (view diff)
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GWG I'm not storing it at the moment
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GWG I may migrate the names of the other fields if a standard is set.
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snarfed yup looks like you can use WP_Query to run the IN query to get multiple values at once: http://wordpress.stackexchange.com/a/45461
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snarfed k i'll draft the proposal
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GWG snarfed: Wish I'd thought of trying to establish a standard months ago
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GWG That would have saved some time.
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snarfed eh you need at least a handful of use cases before the standard
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kylewm on that comic
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kylewm oops sorry
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GWG snarfed: My annoyance is now I'll have to write a function to migrate the data I already have.
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GWG I think this time I'd better do it differently.
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snarfed GWG: or just read from both places
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kylewm oops sorry
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snarfed.org edited /WordPress_Data (+782) "proposal for mf2 props" (view diff)
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kylewm naming question -- I'm pulling out some bridgy functions into a tiny library for ellipsizing tweets; i was calling it "brevity" but that feels like it'd be a good name for something broader :) any suggestions?
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snarfed oh boy naming
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GWG snarfed: I'd considered that too
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kylewm I will have to ask again when KartikPrabhu is around, he's good at naming things
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snarfed kylewm: inspiration: https://dev.twitter.com/overview/api/counting-characters
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kylewm brevity-is-the-soul-of-tweet
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kylewm probably too long :p
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GWG snarfed: So, is this the approach you are planning to put into the micropub plugin?
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snarfed what was that tweet joking about composing the perfect tweet, finding that it's 141 chars, and then deciding which grammar rule to break?
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snarfed it had more appropriate language
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snarfed GWG: for now, sure!
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snarfed nothing's set in stone
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GWG Before I forget...
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GWG !tell pfefferle https://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress_Data Your thoughts?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG Thought I should get his input too.
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david.shanske.com edited /WordPress_Data (+15) "/* Credit should be given */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /WordPress_Data (-8) "/* Comment */" (view diff)
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GWG !tell acegiak I merged your work in
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ben_thatmust hmm, has anyone done syndication to youtube before?
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ben_thatmust it has a read/write API
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kylewm ben_thatmust: comments or videos?
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ben_thatmust i don't see anything for posting comments via API but i haven't dug deeply
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ben_thatmust i don't think you can
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ben_thatmust i meant posting videos, and backfeed of comments
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snarfed GWG: done. https://github.com/snarfed/wordpress-micropub/commit/bee68ff3c7de91173f9cf8ecddef580478fa9dec
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GWG snarfed: You are still also saving it in the content though.
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snarfed GWG: that's what your PR is for :P
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GWG snarfed: That was what I was asking. Are you planning to merge it in? Or are there other changes you are thinking?
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snarfed let's definitely merge it! it just needs style cleanup, like we discussed
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GWG snarfed: I have the hardest time with style. Is that better?
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GWG Anyone have a nice guide to code styling I can study?
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kylewm GWG: https://github.com/idno/Known/blob/master/docs/developers/standards.rst
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snarfed more importantly though, follow the style of the code you're working with
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snarfed GWG: getting closer! still needs whitespace before if( paren and two column indents
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snarfed (read my original comment)
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GWG snarfed: I'm just bad at that, oddly.
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GWG Which needs column indents?
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GWG I see the missing space
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snarfed GWG: two column indents, ie all indents should be two spaces
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snarfed (some people use four, some use tabs, etc. generally just follow the existing code)
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snarfed GWG: ah i see, your change does use tabs. you'll want to change those to spaces
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GWG Why do I have so much trouble with this?
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GWG Try it now?
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snarfed editors often render both tabs and spaces invisible so it's hard to see the difference
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snarfed look for any settings in your editor for tabs
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tantek twospaceindents++
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Loqi twospaceindents has 1 karma
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snarfed GWG: almost there! line 217 has a tab and 218 is three spaces instead of two. otherwise all lgtm
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snarfed sorry for the noise all. we should move this to gh
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GWG snarfed: I'll pull my vi quick reference
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kylewm GWG: "set expandtab" is the setting for spaces instead of tabs... that can be hard to google
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GWG kylewm: I'm saving that in my vimrc
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tantek what is vimrc?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "vimrc" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=vimrc&summary=%28prompted+by+tantek+https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-15/line/1424023881673%29
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snarfed of course, the next PR you write may be on a project that uses tabs. :P whee
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snarfed GWG++ looks good! merging
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Loqi GWG has 73 karma
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GWG snarfed: The two people I've been submitting to are you and pfefferle
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snarfed could me more in the future!
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GWG If I succeed in not annoying either of you, I'll be thrilled
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ben_thatmust_ GWG. ":set list" shows non printable characters
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snarfed nice job fixing style. next thing to try, for your next PR: squashing commits together! http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14534397
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snarfed k, wp-micropub is feeling very complete now. nothing more planned near term. wordpress people, please try it out!
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JHSheridan Hi all... I'm having a bit of trouble wrangling all the active IndieWebCamp projects. I figure I should contribute to one instead of rolling my own, but even on the IndieWebCamp site, there doesn't seem to be an updated list of projects or their licenses. Thus far, I've looked into Known and Homsteading.io, which seem to be full-fledged solutions, and then projects that solve specific issues like Bridgy, Webmention.io, etc.
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JHSheridan Can anyone suggest a couple of projects being actively developed that I should check out?
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Loqi JHSheridan: kylewm left you a message 2 weeks, 3 days ago: excited you are going to try out red wind! there are likely some rough edges in the installation right now but nothing huge. and also the pilbox dependency is going away eventually
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kylewm JHSheridan: Known is by far the most polished and widely used. Homesteading is in active development but i don't think ready for users yet
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JHSheridan You're developing RedWind right?
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kylewm yes
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JHSheridan I have some experience w/ Flask. I meant to add that in my list, but it's been hard for me to keep up with all of them
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tantek JHSheridan, indeed the /projects page is quite "in-progress" and needs more work (by myself included)
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JHSheridan I mostly work on the front-end of things professionally, but I've got some python experience, particularly in Flask
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tantek JHSheridan, the primary criteria you should keep in mind is, is the creator of the project actively using it to post on their own site, like daily? (e.g. instead of using silos like Twitter)
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JHSheridan That makes sense.
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tantek that's only true right now for Known, RedWind, and p3k (the latter is not yet fully open source)
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JHSheridan Yeah... I was surprised to see p3k was not fully open
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tantek JHSheridan, it's ok - making something fully open is non-trivial
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JHSheridan oh absolutely... not judging
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tantek e.g. /Falcon is not fully open either
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tantek (what I run on my site)
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JHSheridan I totally understand
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JHSheridan Thanks for the info, all
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hmans JHSheridan, Pants.
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JHSheridan I assume that's a project name? haha
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hmans JHSheridan, it's very much in flux right now, though. It's running hmans.io and a bunch of other sites, but it's not 100% IndieWeb yet. Working on a big new version that's much more focused on IndieWeb protocols/etc.
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Loqi rofl
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hmans It is indeed. Get some pants on!
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kylewm what is Pants?
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Loqi Pants is the name of the software User:hmans.io is developing https://indiewebcamp.com/pants
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JHSheridan great... thanks for the info, hmans
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kylewm.com moved /pants to /Pants "canonical capitalization"
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hmans I can't really recommend installing it right now since I'm not making a lot of changes to the old version anymore, and the new version isn't ready for production use yet.
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hmans To give you a little perspective, Pants is both a publisher *and* an aggregator.
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tantek hmans as it should be :)
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hmans I'm basically trying to build something that largely looks and feels like a normal social network, except it's all IndieWeb.
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hmans (ie. you can follow users and get a timeline of their posts/likes/etc.)
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hmans I'm not adding a lot of "syndicate to silos" stuff because f' those silos. (I am parsing Bridgy's twitter documents, but that's roughly the entire integration with them.)
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JHSheridan That makes sense hmans
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@kevinmarks Hey @leolaporte, if you're redesigning TWiT website, we should chat about incorporating indieweb friendly markup - h-entry, h-feed etc (twitter.com/_/status/567042682707402754)
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@rhiaro Launched first pass at my triplestore-powered blog. Still shaky, and doesn't do indieweb stuff yet, but yeah. http://rhiaro.co.uk (twitter.com/_/status/567043484516118528)
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KartikPrabhu loqi playback?
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Loqi is done
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@kevinmarks @sachinag the closest thing I have to that at the moment is this http://www.kevinmarks.com/we-like-indieweb-software.html (twitter.com/_/status/567049423331397633)
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@kevinmarks What users think Facebook api enables versus what developers can actually do https://medium.com/on-coding/the-unexpected-costs-of-third-party-login-cda41c087653 #silos #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/567053145381941248)
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@kimbrough_SD RT @kevinmarks: What users think Facebook api enables versus what developers can actually do https://medium.com/on-coding/the-unexpected-costs-of-third-party-login-cda41c087653 #silos #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/567054260538322944)
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KevinMarks http://climbtothestars.com/archives/2015/02/12/the-frustrating-easiness-of-sharing-a-link-on-facebook-and-twitter-and-google-plus-and-tumblr-and/
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pdurbin KevinMarks: I wonder if supporting *multiple* logins (like StackOverflow does) would help with the "I forgot how I created my account" problem.
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KevinMarks I think it does - identity bundling like indieauth
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KevinMarks Friendfeed used to do this well
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@andkjaer Social Media Newsfeed: Facebook Mobile | Tumblr Long Form >> http://www.adweek.com/socialtimes/?p=613860&utm_content=buffer4925f&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #SocialMedia Tip from Tim Sohn. #SelfPublish #IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/567061792208461824)
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pdurbin yeah
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KevinMarks If you login with another auth it would ask if you wanted to combine the accounts
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kylewm KevinMarks: how did it know which accounts to combine?
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pdurbin I mean, as long as you can get in with *one* of your accounts, you can see the other accounts that also let you in (or at least stackoverflow does)
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KevinMarks Cookies, cross checking email addresses (when fb and Google provided those)
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GWG KevinMarks: You want TWIT to go MF2?
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KevinMarks Makes sense
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KevinMarks It's very hentry shaped
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KevinMarks And a native mf2 podcast source would be good
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GWG KevinMarks: I'm wondering what his developers will think
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KevinMarks I'd love to talk to them about it
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KevinMarks waves at bear
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pdurbin KevinMarks: you could be the new Gina!
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GWG tries to think of a witty answer to that
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KevinMarks Noöne can be Gina, but I do enjoy TWiG
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pdurbin :)
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bunnywabbit_1 hello everyone
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bunnywabbit_1 /nick stephtara
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bunnywabbit_1 ack
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KevinMarks__ Hi Steph
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bunnywabbit_1 (will get back on irssi tomorrow.... just saying hi before bye and bed)
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KevinMarks__ You're very welcome
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GWG KevinMarks: Now, if you could talk her and Jeff Jarvis into joining up, I could have a NYC HWC
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KevinMarks___ Gwg et al, bunny is a wp user and dev who wrote that post I just linked
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KevinMarks___ I think there's a good use case for the indieweb plugins there
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GWG KevinMarks and all his underscores: I agree. That is why I'm working on it, despite being a sub par coder
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pdurbin bunnywabbit_1: so you've shared a lot of interesting links via FB, Twitter, etc and later you're wondering how to collect those links together, look at them, all at once, and decide which to put in a blog post?
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pdurbin bunnywabbit_1: this guy does a good job of collecting links ( https://thecommandline.net/category/general/links/ ) and might be willing to explain his method **and** it looks like he recently got into POSSE: http://thecommandline.net/2015/02/01/tclp-2015-02-01-if-it-sounds-right-and-my-site-has-a-posse/
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@realchrisdev RT @kevinmarks: What users think Facebook api enables versus what developers can actually do https://medium.com/on-coding/the-unexpected-costs-of-third-party-login-cda41c087653 #silos #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/567069266584027136)
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tantek JHSheridan: if you're still around, add yourself to https://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people !
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JHSheridan will do, tantek
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aaronpk hello wordpress people! what is the way to get rel-syndication links on posts?
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Loqi aaronpk: ben_thatmust_ left you a message on 2/14 at 9:44pm: have a look at this http://stackoverflow.com/questions/25352111/nodejs-einaros-ws-connection-timeout
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aaronpk GWG: ^
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GWG aaronpk: There are two ways
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GWG 1. https://github.com/dshanske/syndication-links
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GWG 2. https://github.com/jihaisse/wordpress-syndication
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GWG I'm planning to take the functionality of 2 and merge it into 1 so 2 things don't need to be maintained
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tantek what is rel-syndication?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "rel-syndication" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=rel-syndication&summary=%28prompted+by+tantek+https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-15/line/1424035297478%29
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tantek wat
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aaronpk is your syndication-links plgugin in the wordpress directory?
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tantek aaronpk ^^^ Loqi bug - that page does exist
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Loqi woot!
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aaronpk these are not linked http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started_on_WordPress#Syndicate_your_content_to_other_sites
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tantek gives Loqi a stern look
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Loqi grabs the stern look
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snarfed aaronpk: GWG: 3. add them manually. that's what i usually do
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tantek and that page needs some updating. brb.
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GWG aaronpk: When I finish merging 2 into 1, then I intend to put it in. It was supposed to be my weekend project. I got sidetracked with acegiak and scrobbling.
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GWG snarfed: Have you seen how my plugin is set up? it is mostly manual.
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GWG aaronpk: Give me a few days
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snarfed GWG: oh i mean manually authoring the markup itself, directly in the post body
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GWG snarfed: This is one step above that. It offers the option of inserting into the post content filter at the bottom.
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aaronpk i'm pretty confused about the state of the wordpress stuff
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aaronpk the wiki pages seem to be in various states of documentation
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tantek GWG what about https://wordpress.org/plugins/relsyndication ?
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aaronpk that one didn't install on this worpdress blog, had some error i didn't understand
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GWG tantek: Jihaisse isn't maintaining it. It is versions behind the Github repo. That is why I was merging the code into mine and was going to post it.
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GWG tantek: It is the same plugin
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GWG aaronpk: Which wiki pages?
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GWG aaronpk: I'll update them
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aaronpk GWG: i went to /Wordpress and clicked to here http://indiewebcamp.com/Wordpress#Adding_Indieweb_Support.2FElements_to_a_Wordpress_Site
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aaronpk then clicked Getting started
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started_on_WordPress
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aaronpk but then when Isearch the wordpress directory for "indieweb" it's kind of confusing
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@philipdurbin .@taylorhughes as I was saying to @kevinmarks allowing multiple logins might help with "I forgot how I signed up": http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-15#t1424032774209 (twitter.com/_/status/567074911852957697)
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tantek.com edited /rel-syndication (+933) "re-organize into understandable and actionable Why, How-to, IndieWeb Examples sections, update info about WordPress plugins" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - updated: https://indiewebcamp.com/rel-syndication#How_to_link_from_WordPress
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aaronpk I now understand the comment someone made the other day about information being weirdly duplicated on the wiki
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aaronpk because there are three places that try to document how to syndicate from wordpress
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tantek aaronpk - people may explore the wiki from different perspectives
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tantek and you don't want to have to make them dig through too many pages/links to find the information
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aaronpk well the way I was trying to find it I would not have found the rel-syndication page
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tantek except that's not what you asked
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tantek you specifically askedL:
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tantek "what is the way to get rel-syndication links on posts?"
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tantek thus it is only logical that you should have looked in /rel-syndication
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tantek specifically "how to"
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tantek and hopefully scrolled down to "How to link from WordPress "
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aaronpk but I started by loking at the /Wordpress page
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tantek or even go to /rel-syndication and then do a in-browser "find" for "WordPress"
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tantek but that's not what you asked
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tantek if you literally followed your own question, you would (now at least) find the answer
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tantek that doesn't mean the WordPress page can't be further improved
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tantek just saying, it's *good* to make it easy to find the information from multiple ways of asking the same / similar question
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tantek it's not reasonable to expect new (or in general) people to ask the same questions in the same way.
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aaronpk i guess the other thing is this is after some mild frustration/confusion about what to install on wordpress after searching the plugin directory for "indieweb"
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aaronpk and lack of clear instructions of how to make a new wordpress blog support everything needed
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tantek right. "searching the plugin directory for …" is never a good strategy for WordPress
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tantek that's the problem
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GWG tantek: I keep working on that
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GWG aaronpk: I keep trying to figure out good ways to explain it
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GWG Maybe I need a video
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tantek GWG, directories are very bad for this sort of thing because they contain too much crap, too much noise,
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aaronpk a list of what plugins to install and why would be sufficient
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tantek because a directory tries to be more comprehensive of what's out there
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tantek rather than what you SHOULD install
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tantek aaronpk - searching a directory = wrong approach
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GWG http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started_on_WordPress
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GWG That was what I was trying with this
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tantek if you're looking for answers to "what you *should* install"
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aaronpk so I installed the "indieweb" plugin but then it had like 8 plugins linked and I knew some oft hem weren't necessary
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tantek GWG, yes, it's pretty clear from /WordPress to quickly go to /Getting_Started_on_WordPress
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aaronpk so already the "indieweb" plugin is its own directory that has fallen to the same problems as any directory like tantek mentioned
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tantek aaronpk, the thing to do is to try to literally follow the instructions on https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started_on_WordPress and then document your questions / frustrations with that page
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tantek document / ask here
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tantek because that we can curate and fix
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tantek we can't fix the WordPress plugin directory for your purpose of "how to"
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tantek because of the comprehensive vs. curated difference in focus
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GWG I want to figure this out.
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GWG I can't even explain to people what my plugin does
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tantek GWG, a good place to start is with answering the question "Why?" as in Why should I bother with this plugin?
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tantek all software is maintenance, and thus has to justify its existence. the default answer is no, don't install it, because no, I don't want to waste my time for no reason.
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snarfed tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 146 karma
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snarfed three steps to great descriptions of software: 1) tell story illustrating problem, 2) explain why existing approaches aren't good enough, 3) describe new solution
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tantek snarfed, I'd re-order 1), then 2) describe minimal steps to solution. Then only appendix: why existing approaches aren't good enough
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tantek assume most people don't even know about existing approaches, and thus you don't need to waste their time debunking existing approaches
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snarfed sure, sounds like a reasonable alternative
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tantek from the perspective of saving the reader time
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snarfed eh. depends on the audience. but i take your point.
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tantek snarfed, I don't know, perhaps. Typically the "legacy" audiences who ask "Why I can't just use x?" or "Isn't this already solved by y?" will then immediately stumble into the FAQ/appendix
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tantek whereas for new folks, you save them time, and cognitive load, by not bothering with a history lesson
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snarfed maybe! personally, not acknowledging previous work, or downplaying it (e.g. by relegating to an appendix) is a pet peeve of mine
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snarfed regardless, i hear you. i still like my alternative, but i'm ok with disagreeing :P
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snarfed important part is 1) tell a story describing the problem
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tantek agreed
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GWG I need to find a good copywriter
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GWG https://wordpress.org/plugins/indieweb-post-kinds/faq/
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tantek GWG, disagreed, practice, and become a good copywriter
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GWG Is this a good story?
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GWG tantek: I need one to be my mentor
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GWG https://wordpress.org/plugins/indieweb-post-kinds/faq/
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GWG How does it work?
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GWG Bob wants to reply to Sue on his own website.
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GWG Sue enables webmentions on her site.
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GWG Bob creates a post and sets it as a reply to Sue's post.
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GWG A webmention is sent to Sue's site, and stored as a comment on Sue's post.
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GWG But that is more a webmention than a post kind story
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tantek snarfed, the other thing I prefer to show *before* the "here's past/previous/other approaches and why they're less desirable" is a section on "Here's folks who are actually using the software that you can look at"
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tantek snarfed, thus the structure of 1) Why (story/use-case), 2) How-to, 3) IndieWeb Examples. and then "previous work" or "silo examples" or "FAQ" etc.
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tantek GWG++ for https://wordpress.org/plugins/indieweb-post-kinds/faq/ - nice and short and to the point
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Loqi GWG has 74 karma
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tantek the question & answer style is a useful explanation method
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GWG tantek: I have another revision planned for tonight.
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aaronpk GWG: snarfed: what is the recommended way to import posts and comments into wordpres? is there a guide somewhere?
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tantek the only thing I'd do is step back and write a story more from the newcomer perspective, who may have a need (why / how to), rather than questions about details (what is, how does)
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GWG aaronpk: Import from?
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tantek GWG, e.g.
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aaronpk in general
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snarfed aaronpk: searching wordpress.org is usually decent for those kinds of q's
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snarfed here, http://codex.wordpress.org/Importing_Content
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tantek Ever want to reply to someone else's post with a post on your own site? Or to "like" someone else's post, but with your own site? IndieWeb Post Kinds enables you to do both.
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snarfed wxr format
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aaronpk oh cool
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tantek GWG ^^^ that's an example of a short question form story.
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tantek that focuses on the user's desires/needs
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tantek rather than trying to explain terminology "What is a post kind" etc.
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tantek which can be done *next*
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GWG tantek: I feel like reading that in the sort of voice the lead in a sitcom does in the opener
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snarfed also what i try to do on the http://brid.gy/ front page
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snarfed (if maybe too concise)
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tantek GWG, yes - adjustment of voice is the job of a good copywriter :)
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GWG tantek: I'm saving that one for later.
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tantek In a world where everyone post on their own websites, a daring blogger seeks to comment and like from their own website as well, and uses Indieweb Post Kidns to do so.
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GWG tantek: Now, that is definitely movie voiceover guy
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tantek GWG, that's the point. The same story can be told in many different voices.
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tantek You're here because you want to own your comments and own your likes, using your own website. Install Indieweb Post Kinds on your WordPress blog and do so.
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Blackwool hi all :)
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Loqi Blackwool: tantek left you a message 1 day, 5 hours ago: Would be great to chat! Don't forget the fourth co-founder of IndieWebCamp - Crystal Beasley: https://indiewebcamp.com/founders
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tantek Welcome back Blackwool :)
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Blackwool hey! just got your message
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GWG tantek: I pity the fool who doesn't own their own domain?
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GWG Never mind.
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Blackwool Tantek, aha! I thought I heard you mention a fourth in a talk I watched
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ben_thatmust aaronpk, hopefully that bit of code i linked will solve the connection problems with the node websockets
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Blackwool Tantek, I'm currently rushing to complete a draft of my proposal so it can be sent to a possible producer, how much longer will you be about?
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tantek Blackwool: we rarely know how much longer we have.
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tantek GWG: You are not your Facebook. You are not how many favorites your tweets get. You're not the apps on your smartphone. You're the all-posting, all-owning-your-data indieweb site.
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aaronpk anyone know if the standard wordpres backup also backs up images?
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aaronpk and if an import will also import them?
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tantek aaronpk, are you asking if you have to backup the database and the filesystem? :P
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aaronpk not exactly...
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aaronpk i'm trying to figure out the best way to get everything from caseorganic's p3k into Wordpress
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tantek Why not Known?
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aaronpk she's more comfortable with wordpress
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Blackwool tantek, how profound :P ...I'll try to get this written up as quick as I can anyhow
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GWG aaronpk: It does and it doesn't. It can reimport them from another site. There are third-party plugins that would do more
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GWG caseorganic is moving to WordPress? Interesting
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tantek Blackwool: The silos you post to end up owning you.
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gRegor` Debugging PHP memory exhausted fatal errors is a pain.
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GWG Own yourself, lest you be owned
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Blackwool so true
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snarfed aaronpk: GWG: it's not that confusing. the built in wordpress export/import absolutely can include the media library
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GWG snarfed: Only if the URLs are still available to the new site, from what I recall
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aaronpk snarfed: i'm debating either writing a wordpress plugin to read the p3k files and import everything vs writing some p3k code to export a Wordpress-style XML file
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snarfed GWG: i think if you check all "import x?" checkboxes, it exports the physical image contents too
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snarfed aaronpk: huh. what's the high level use case? hot backup on top of wp?
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aaronpk migrating to wordpress
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snarfed i bet the former will be easier
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snarfed this is for another p3k user?
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aaronpk yeah, caseorganic
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snarfed k
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snarfed er, sorry, i mean latter
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aaronpk the xml option?
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snarfed yes
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snarfed it's documented
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GWG One of these days, I have to thank caseorganic for doing that interview I heard that alerted me to this community's existence.
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GWG So that all of you get to put up with me.
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snarfed aaronpk: i've worked with a bit, e.g. https://snarfed.org/pyblosxom2wxr , https://snarfed.org/extract_compacted_pyblosxom_comments
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aaronpk snarfed: ah perfect
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aaronpk are there docs on the WXR format somewhere? it seems kind of... scattered
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aaronpk and i'm finding many dead links
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aaronpk i bet i can just fake it by looking at an xml file
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aaronpk but i'm still confuse dabout getting images imported
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GWG I think the import/export features of WordPress haven't gotten love in a while
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GWG aaronpk: How about Micropub?
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GWG Install the Micropub plugin and transfer it all that way maybe?
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acegiak good thinking!
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Loqi acegiak: GWG left you a message on 2/14 at 10:37pm: Going to bed earlier this time. Looking forward to seeing where you got.
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Loqi acegiak: GWG left you a message 5 hours, 28 minutes ago: I merged your work in
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aaronpk GWG: oh good point...
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aaronpk but that won't let me do comments
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aaronpk i suppose i could write a bridgy-like proxy and send myself webmentions
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GWG aaronpk: Are all the comments webmentions already?
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aaronpk yes
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GWG Then can't you generate a list and then have WordPress run through them to verify?
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GWG Although that would be a bit DDOS like
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aaronpk heh
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GWG acegiak: I'm working on the theme support thing next, and some additional documentation before another push to wordpress.org
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acegiak good plan
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acegiak did you see that the icons didn't work for me?
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acegiak but I think that might be because I need to update the sass or something
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GWG acegiak: Yes. I updated them
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GWG acegiak: I have it running off Grunt, actually
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GWG Grunt runs sass and generates the css files off the SASS versions
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acegiak I'm basically bad at compile systems in general
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GWG But theme support will work exactly like it does for post-formats.
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GWG acegiak: I taught myself last month
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GWG acegiak: pfefferle was using Grunt, and I was working on the Indieweb plugin so I picked it up
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acegiak like working on amygdala I was like "Gee I sure am glad libgdx sets up ant for me cause I'd be fucked on my own!"
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GWG _s started using SASS, so I joined them
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acegiak cool
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GWG SASS is really helpful in dealing with giant CSS files
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GWG So I binge sassed and converted all my plugins to it
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acegiak lol
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GWG Then, so I didn't have to remember the commands, I grunted
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GWG I set up config files to run them for me
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GWG IF you look in the repo, I have the Gruntfile set up
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Blackwool tantek, where was the first indie web camp? and do you still host it there?
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snarfed aaronpk: GWG: i still suspect, in the end, wxr will be the easiest
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aaronpk snarfed: how did you handle importing images?
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acegiak WITH comments: probably yes
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snarfed Blackwool: https://indiewebcamp.com/timeline , https://indiewebcamp.com/history
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aaronpk Multiple images per blog post but also I'll need to do the "photo" post kind
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snarfed aaronpk: i cheated. i don't use the media library, so i didn't
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aaronpk Oh actually the WXR option won't work cause it won't be able to do post kinds right?
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snarfed but i really do think it's supported
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snarfed aaronpk: you can do them after the fact in the db
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acegiak snarfed, a neat. the little snipped on the timeline page has some information that isn't on some other pages
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aaronpk It
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aaronpk Oy*
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aaronpk I think making an importer plugin actually doesn't sound that bad
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Blackwool snarfed, thanks! thats what I was looking for! :)
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snarfed aaronpk: sure! i still vote wxr but up to you
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aaronpk I made a delicious->Wordpress importer back in the day
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GWG aaronpk: I opted to not do a gallery post kind.
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aaronpk snarfed: will the WXR let me do post kinds tho?
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snarfed afaik no, again, that'd be mamual after
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acegiak surely it will let you do taxonomies and metadata?
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snarfed er, manual as in script or sql updates
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snarfed yes
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snarfed oh arbitrary meta key/values. maybe!
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acegiak kinds are just taxonomies and metadata
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GWG http://alexking.org/blog/2011/08/29/wordpress-post-meta-taxonomies
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GWG I think this says it the best
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Blackwool another question for you all! was there a ringleader for Indie Web Camp 2014 in Berlin? If so, who is that?
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Blackwool I'm trying to get a sense for who will be running the simultaneous camps this year, but i know it isn't all set in stone yet
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gRegor` Blackwool: Brennan Novak, I believe. http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Guest_List#Farther_East
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tantek Blackwool, the first annual IndieWebCamp was held in 2011 in Portland, Oregon. http://indiewebcamp.com/2011
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tantek We have held the primary annual IndieWebCamp there every year since
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GWG Is there a plaque?
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Blackwool gRegor, thanks!
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Blackwool Tantek, okay, cool. Are you currently planning on doing the simultaneous location camp thing again this year?
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tantek In 2014 the primary IndieWebCamp, distributed across three locations simultaneously for the first time. Portland, New York, Berlin
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tantek Blackwool - it's completely up to the local organizers.
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Blackwool ah, yes ok I see
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tantek There will be another primary IndieWebCamp 2015 in Portland, and given the success of last year's distributed IndieWebCamp, we'll be encouraging other sites to step forward.
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tantek But each site/city decides on their own, as you would expect for a distributed event :)
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GWG tantek: I am hoping that we get the a/v improved. I couldn't hear PDX
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Blackwool Okay, cool, well I have to write this film treatment as a hypothetical visualisation
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Blackwool so for my purposes I'll use the locations from last year as the hypothetical locations for this year i think
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tantek GWG, could you volunteer to help with testing a/v before the event itself?
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tantek Blackwool, this year's locations are being planned here: http://indiewebcamp.com/2015
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GWG tantek: Do we have a date/locations yet? But yes?
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GWG I know aaronpk has gotten the equipment to make PDX work better this year, because Cambridge was an improvement
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Blackwool yeah, I saw that, thanks :)
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tantek GWG, we have a URL, add yourself as an a/v/ testing volunteer with your objectives
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Blackwool Tantek, my current plan is to film one organiser from each location as they get ready and go to the event, would you be prepared to be filmed for whichever one you are attending?
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Blackwool I would most likely be "filmed" via videochat or similar, as I can't really get my crew there and I want to come up with a more creative web-based solution anyhow
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david.shanske.com edited /2015 (+14) "/* Candidate Cities */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /2015 (+167) "/* Organizers */" (view diff)
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tantek Blackwool - we could likely arrange something, perhaps by FaceTime
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Blackwool tantek, yeah, that sort of thing would work! are you happy for me to put your name down in this draft proposal?
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tantek Blackwool yes of course. I also strongly encourage you to interview at least one of the women co-founders. You might need to contact them via email.
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Blackwool oh yes, don't worry, I am going to be chasing down Amber Case for sure
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Blackwool I've watched a few of her talks and I'm super keen for her to be in this project
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tantek Crystal is also particularly important, as she designed our logo as well.
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Blackwool Yup, I will definitely have a chat with her too.
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Blackwool I just wanted to check it with you while you're online
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GWG tantek: Is Crystal ever in here? I know I occasionally see caseorganic as a screenname? I don't always associate screennames and names.
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tantek GWG, occasionally
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GWG What username?
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tantek I think just crystal? check /irc-people to be sure
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GWG Not seeing it, but I'll keep it in mind
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aaronpk okay I am launching in to this attempt at writing a wordpress import plugin for p3k
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aaronpk from*
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GWG aaronpk: Good luck
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aaronpk GWG: your syndication-links plugin... it stores the links as an array of URLs?
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aaronpk newline separated?
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GWG aaronpk: Yes. I changed it to be easier to work with without knowing the syndication source. The old way had a field for each source.
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GWG Or destination.
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aaronpk cool, so if I know the syndication links of every post I can just put them all in that meta field?
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GWG Depending on methodology
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GWG aaronpk: Exactly. That's why I changed after last night's discussion.
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GWG Wrote it this morning
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aaronpk great
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GWG I'll have that one in the repository soon too, after some other things.
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aaronpk GWG: I got an error activating post kinds after installing syndication links
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aaronpk "Cannot redeclare extract_domain_name()"
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GWG Oh, yes. Haven't pushed that fix yet
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tantek aaronpk - if your entire storage is in flat files, isn't that just a matter of writing a flat-file importer for WordPress?
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GWG aaronpk: I already fixed it
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aaronpk tantek: basically yeah
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aaronpk but it's not like there is a standard flat file format
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GWG Just haven't pushed to the repository yet
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GWG One second.
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aaronpk this brings up an interesting question
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aaronpk what is the most responsible way for authors of CMSs like p3k, known, wordpress, etc, to handle import/export of data
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GWG aaronpk: The function is fixed in the Github repo. I'll push it to WordPress.org later as part of some other changes I'm working on still.
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tantek aaronpk, HTML+h-entry of course :)
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aaronpk GWG: okay so i can clone from github to continue right now?
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tantek folder(s) of them if necessary
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GWG Yes.
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aaronpk tantek: so should there actually be a wordpress importer that imports from h-entry?
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tantek of course!
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tantek why bother with intermediate formats?
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GWG Not a bad idea.
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aaronpk at that point why not make a "clone site" button that you can point at another site and it crawls and imports all the data
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tantek WordPress has tons of random importers
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tantek what's one more
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aaronpk you can also install importers as plugins
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tantek aaronpk, because setting up a site is a lot more than just importing
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aaronpk so I could make this plugin read the p3k HTML instead of source files
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tantek bingo
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aaronpk which means it could be used by other people to import their whatever CMS into wordpress
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aaronpk it's a question of "p3k-source -> wordpress source" vs "p3k-html -> microformats -> wordpress source"
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gRegor` aaronpk: Here, you may need some of this when working with WordPress https://flic.kr/p/fAToLV
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aaronpk gRegornobacktick++
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Loqi gRegornobacktick has 40 karma
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GWG What the heck, I'll push to the repo now.