#indiewebcamp 2015-02-16

2015-02-16 UTC
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aaronpk please do, it's currently broken
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GWG aaronpk: I just pushed it
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aaronpk GWG++
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Loqi GWG has 75 karma
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GWG aaronpk: The WordPress.org repository now has version 1.1.0
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aaronpk huh wordpress is failing to download it
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aaronpk there it goes... took a couple tries even though after each it said "Plugin updated successfully."
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GWG Might be because I just did it
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aaronpk GWG: the error messages that are at the top lack a lot of context: "This Plugin Requires Webmention Support" but I have no idea which plugin it's talking about!
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aaronpk there was also one I ran in to earlier that said sometihng like "this plugin is deprecated in favor of..."
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GWG aaronpk: That was in Indieweb Taxonomy. I was trying to tell people not to install it
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aaronpk can you make it say the name of the plugin in the error?
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GWG That I will do
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GWG For 1.1.1
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aaronpk "The 'Indieweb Taxonomy' plugin is..."
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GWG aaronpk: The predecessor of Post Kinds. I discontinued it as the name was too generic.
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aaronpk sure, just commenting on the error messages
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GWG The only error message in Post Kinds is for webmentions. I added the link. Will push with the next set of changes
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GWG I'm waiting for pfefferle to push the Indieweb plugin update so Micropub and Post Kinds will be updated in it.
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GWG aaronpk: Oh, if my work is worthy of it, please leave a review. I'm hoping it will encourage others.
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kylewm aaronpk: was there something caseorganic wanted p3k to do that it doesn't do?
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GWG aaronpk: I also appreciate feedback. I'm new to writing for others
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aaronpk kylewm: she wanted something she's more familiar with, and able to tinker with on her own
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aaronpk i'll let her write up the full explanation tho
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tantek "able to tinker with on her own" is a great indieweb premise / principle
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aaronpk i think that is also the main reason she didn't want to switch to Known
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kylewm oh cool, will look forward to reading her write up too
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tantek tinkerability is a good design principle for open source projects
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aaronpk huh this doesn't look right http://indiewebcamp.com/like#receive_and_markup_incoming_likes
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aaronpk oh p-like vs p-like-of?
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aaronpk who here is marking up likes/comments/reposts of their own posts?
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GWG aaronpk: In the comment section maybe
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aaronpk tantek: the markup on on /like kind of makes it look like the post is a like of the post in "like"
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tantek aaronpk, 'like' vs. 'like-of'
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aaronpk it results in an array of h-cites in the "like" property
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aaronpk is that really correct?
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tantek oh hey that markup can be improved
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tantek it should link directly to the 'like' post permalink itself
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aaronpk tell me now cause i'm about to slurp it in for this import
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tantek rather than the author
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tantek plenty of folks (yourself included) are displaying likes that link back to their permalinks
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aaronpk mine only have h-card markup, so that's bad. fixing it now
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tantek looking at werd.io...
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GWG aaronpk: May I direct you to one more project that might interest?
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GWG aaronpk: https://github.com/dshanske/mf2_s
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GWG An attempt at an mf2 starter theme based on Automattic's _s.
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GWG Style and complete.
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GWG Though it is in regular development. I backport _s improvements
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aaronpk GWG: cool, I don't think I need that for this import project tho
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KevinMarks_ Bridgy twitter likes link to the author as they don't have permalinks
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KevinMarks_ Also, WordPress import from xml is really slow (or used to be) so you had to break it into chunks
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GWG aaronpk: I'm not even using it yet. But acegiak I think derived a current theme from it.
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tantek.com edited /like (+130) "/* receive and markup incoming likes */ fix displaying like markup to link to like permalink, and use u-like per uf2 parsing rules updates and "value" handling for uf objects on properties" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk, take a look http://indiewebcamp.com/like#receive_and_markup_incoming_likes
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aaronpk tantek: cool, is "u-like-of" really necessary? isn't that implied by the fact that it's contained within the h-entry?
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tantek 10 years ago I would have said, yes, that's implied.
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tantek HOWEVER
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tantek painful lessons later, formats that depend on implying URL relationships by nesting/containment tend to be a lot more fragile.
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tantek and thus the data therein, fragile
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aaronpk huh, I get that, but I feel like that doesn't really apply at least for what i'm doing with it
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aaronpk I'm looking at this h-entry and I want to find all the likes of the post I am importing, so I go look at the "like" property which is a bunch of "h-cite"s. Can't I assume that all of those are likes of the article?
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tantek yeah that makes sense
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tantek ok
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tantek.com edited /like (+171) "/* receive and markup incoming likes */ .h-cite>.u-like-of unnecessary per reasoning from aaronpk in IRC" (view diff)
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acegiak GWG aaronpk, I've got a child theme of mf2_s that just adds a header widget area and 150 lines of css
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tantek aaronpk update
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tantek d
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aaronpk great
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GWG acegiak: It can do child themes, it was really made to base off of. The next version will implement the theme support post kinds idea I was fiddling with, instead of testing for a function.
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KevinMarks_ So if you are making an h-feed importer you can import from a legacy feed using unmung.com
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aaronpk KevinMarks_: heh that'll be a good test
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tantek KevinMarks that's a good point
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@edtechdev https://sandstorm.io/ is an #opensource platform that allows you to install web apps at the push of a button on your own server #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/567124243335618560)
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caseorganic.com edited /User:Caseorganic.com (+6) "/* IndieWeb Projects I use */" (view diff)
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GWG Premature?
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tantek indeed - though I'd expect that it's a statement of near-future intent
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GWG Maybe we should recruit caseorganic for the Club
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tantek GWG, I think she's already an (occasional) member of the Homebrew Website Club :)
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GWG I meant the WordPress Outreach Club
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caseorganic.com edited /User:Caseorganic.com (+1928) "/* Amber Case */ Added reasons for switching personal site to WP" (view diff)
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caseorganic.com edited /User:Caseorganic.com (+27) "/* Why use WordPress? */" (view diff)
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caseorganic !recap
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Loqi caseorganic: tantek left you a message 2 days, 3 hours ago: welcome back!
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Loqi sorry i can't do that right now. The logs are at https://chat.projectnerdhaus.com/logs/nerdhaus/today
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caseorganic tantek: hi tantek!
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caseorganic GWG: hello!
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tantek hello caseorganic !! :)
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caseorganic GWG: happy to do it re: wp outreach club
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tantek snarfed++ " Micropub support by Snarfed was key to this transition. "
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Loqi snarfed has 85 karma
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caseorganic GWG: after getting some documentation on it.
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caseorganic snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 86 karma
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GWG caseorganic...
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GWG What is the WordPress Outreach Club?
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Loqi The WordPress Outreach Club is a group of active IndieWebCamp participants who reach out to individuals already running WordPress to add IndieWeb functionality to their existing sites https://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress_Outreach_Club
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kylewm caseorganic: out of curiosity, what did your hosting provider lack that Known needed?
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caseorganic.com edited /User:Caseorganic.com (+185) "/* Amber Case */" (view diff)
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caseorganic kylewm: PHP 5.4+
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tantek caseorganic: agreed with " I need a bit more […] pages"
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tantek hence I keep iterating on https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki-projects#Brainstorming
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tantek also for fear of PBWorks disappearing :(
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caseorganic tantek: yeah, I need a little more flexibility to make something a bit more like this: http://www.rushkoff.com/
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caseorganic tantek: http://calmtechnology.com/updates/ runs on WP with P2 theme Mercury child theme for P2
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tantek caseorganic: this? "400 Bad Request / openresty/1.7.7.1"
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tantek :P
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tantek nevermind ephemeral error. reload fixed it. weird.
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tantek uh that search box / button is so Windows 3.1 :P
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tantek caseorganic: Scripts Currently Forbidden: 35. "FROM THE BLOG" is empty
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caseorganic tantek: https://www.flickr.com/photos/caseorganic/16357718359/
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GWG caseorganic: P2 is the one with front end updating, right?
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caseorganic GWG: yep! see the screenshot above
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tantek caseorganic: very nice
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tantek what is create?
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Loqi create in the context of the indieweb refers to the act of and UI for creating a new post, in its simplest form, a new note https://indiewebcamp.com/create
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GWG Jeremy Zilar was trying for that at IWC 2014.
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caseorganic Loqi++
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Loqi Loqi has 336 karma
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caseorganic Sorry I haven't been around so much lately, I'm in the middle of a career change. Handing over my work at Esri and moving forward.
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GWG caseorganic: Where are you going?
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GWG Never mind
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tantek.com edited /create (+442) "Calm Technology" (view diff)
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tantek Thanks for the screenshot caseorganic - wikified! https://indiewebcamp.com/create#Calm_Technology
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GWG caseorganic: Where are you going?
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GWG caseorganic: Also, thank you.
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tantek.com edited /create (-2) "/* Calm Technology */ more readable image of screenshot" (view diff)
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willnorris.com edited /image_proxy (-4) "go imageproxy: it may be hosted on GitHub today, but that's not the homepage" (view diff)
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GWG Willnorris, another name I haven't seen much in a while
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tantek drivebywikiedits++
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Loqi drivebywikiedits has 1 karma
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kylewm.com edited /User:Kylewm.com (+171) (view diff)
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GWG That reminds me. My user page needs updating
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willnorris.com edited /image_proxy (+229) "/* IndieWeb examples */" (view diff)
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kylewm deployed slightly different styling/UX for micropub actions on reader.kylewm.com ... inspired by barnabywalters's nudge to get back to one-click likes
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aaronpk oh nice
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tantek kylewm - indeed, one click likes (and bookmarking - aka link sharing) is something we need to make happen. E.g. as an answer to http://climbtothestars.com/archives/2015/02/12/the-frustrating-easiness-of-sharing-a-link-on-facebook-and-twitter-and-google-plus-and-tumblr-and/
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tantek not sure how to capture that
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aaronpk "The link is expanded into an excerpt and a photo which are nice and pretty and often spare me having to write any kind of introduction to the link"
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KevinMarks Stephanie said she'd be back tomorrow to chat - I think she's a good use case
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tantek aaronpk, exactly, /link-preview in the authoring tool
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KevinMarks (she built the first rel-tag plugin for wordpress)
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KevinMarks or aaronpk's collection tool posting to micropub?
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GWG KevinMarks: I'll be around all day. Looking forward to it
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KevinMarks hm: https://twitter.com/RepMikeHonda/status/567079358373044224
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@RepMikeHonda .@kevinmarks Yes, they're embedded pages from http://Congress.gov which is maintained by the @librarycongress http://honda.house.gov/priorities/sponsored-and-cosponsored-legislation (twitter.com/_/status/567079358373044224)
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tantek hey iframe
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tantek done via object tag
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KevinMarks yes, a bit awkward, but better than the silo he tweeted before
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KevinMarks https://twitter.com/RepMikeHonda/status/567074974608162818
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@RepMikeHonda Ready to pin? All my bills are on Pinterest, from manufacturing to public safety. #WeAreCA17 https://www.pinterest.com/repmikehonda/ https://twitter.com/RepMikeHonda/status/567074974608162818/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/567074974608162818)
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tantek.com edited /Facebook (+54) "/* Features */ legacy contact" (view diff)
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tantek KevinMarks: same problem as what steph pointed out - rep Honda made it as clear as day "Ready to pin?" - easy UI action to collect something
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tantek whereas the congress.gov versions lack such easy UI
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tantek.com edited /Facebook (+135) "shorten headline, no need to duplicate "Facebook" nor included implicit "about you"" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /legacy_contact (+364) "stub with dfn, silo examples, facebook" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /legacy_contact (+49) "US users only to start" (view diff)
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acegiak blackwool is having trouble with her proposal document cause the term silo is obviously foreign to the people reading it
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GWG acegiak: Walled garden?
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kylewm yeah i have noticed "silo" rubs some people the wrong way
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GWG That's a common one.
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tantek people don't like their utilities being called prisons.
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acegiak walled garden is still too tech specific
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tantek acegiak - then give them the literary reference
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tantek what is the cask of montillado?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "cask of montillado" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=cask+of+montillado&summary=%28prompted+by+tantek+https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-15/line/1424058718884%29
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acegiak tantek: we're definitely trying to avoid scaremongering
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tantek.com created /cask_of_montillado (+37) "r" (view diff)
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GWG tantek: You meant... http://indiewebcamp.com/The_Cask_of_Amontillado
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tantek thanks GWG - yes, fixed my typo with a redir
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kylewm corporate and/or centralized social media?
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tantek acegiak - no need to scaremonger - simply point to the facts: http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths
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tantek what is sharecropping?
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Loqi sharecropping in the context of the IndieWeb is the practice of primarily or exclusively creating/publishing content on silos as opposed to doing so first (or primarily) on your own site, and those that do publish primarily or exclusively on silos are known as sharecroppers https://indiewebcamp.com/sharecropping
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tantek acegiak: and that ^^^
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acegiak tantek: yeah we want to make sure we're coming from a positive angle than a negative one though
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tantek acegiak - you cannot tell the story without giving the background of harms
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acegiak kylewm: thats probably succinct enough.
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tantek what is why?
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Loqi "You're here because you know something. What you know you can't explain, but you feel it. You've felt it your entire life, that there's something wrong with the world [wide web]." — Morpheus, The Matrix
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tantek acegiak: is that better ^^^
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acegiak tantek: blackwool might use that verbatim she says
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tantek :)
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tantek acegiak: I've worked pretty hard at writing up the intro/summary of the /why page
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acegiak yeah its great
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acegiak gwg: us that helpful for your plugin description
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GWG Which?
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acegiak the indieweb plugin
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tantek.com edited /silo (+129) "/* Silo Innovations */ legacy contact" (view diff)
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GWG Might
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acegiak oh. battery is about to die
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acegiak back soon
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tantek acegiak - my challenge to you to pass on to Blackwool for this indieweb documentary project - for every man interviewed, interview a woman as well. Plenty in the community: https://indiewebcamp.com/2014-review#This_Is_A_Movement
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Blackwool did i just miss caseorganic? bother.
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KartikPrabhu Blackwool: you can leave messages using the command !tell
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KartikPrabhu !tell Blackwool hello
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm Blackwool: she has not been around the channel much for some time, email or something might be a better bet
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Blackwool ah, ok, thanks, I'll do those :)
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Loqi Blackwool: KartikPrabhu left you a message 1 minute ago: hello
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acegiak and back
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acegiak tantek: Challenge has been accepted but I think we're both people who would do that anyway
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acegiak how does mobilepub use indieauth.com if it doesn't have a web callback point
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acegiak I want to micropub from a greasemonkey script but not sure how to do the auth bit
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acegiak tantek: is there a wiki page for this: http://tantek.com/2014/067/b1/building-blocks-people-focused-mobile-communication?
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tantek what is comms?
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Loqi communication in the context of the indieweb refers to using your personal website as a starting point and potentially way for people to communicate with you https://indiewebcamp.com/comms
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acegiak I was searching "contacts" and related terms
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GWG What do you want to do with that, acegiak?
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acegiak I wanted to look at how other people are doing it
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acegiak at the moment I have contact points in my site header
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GWG acegiak: It's on my list
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acegiak but A)the sms and tel have to be separate so that they are different buttons for people to click
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acegiak and B) because I want the text of the anchor with the h-card markup to actually be the contact data it means my pretty bubble isn't a whole clickable link
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Loqi gives acegiak the text of the anchor with the h
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acegiak but I just realised I can hack it by inserting the label with CSS maybe
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acegiak then the markup is correct, the entire bubble is clickable and my label shows
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acegiak ok! at least now the contact button bubble is all clickable
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GWG acegiak: Good.
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acegiak caseorganic: got a minute?
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acegiak blackwool was trying to get hold of you
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Blackwool oh! hey caseorganic
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tantek what are specs?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "specs" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=specs&summary=%28prompted+by+tantek+https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-15/line/1424069073718%29
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tantek what are specifications?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "specifications" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=specifications&summary=%28prompted+by+tantek+https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-15/line/1424069079561%29
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tantek.com created /specifications (+1091) "prompted indirectly by GPHemsley in #whatwg" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /specifications (+19) "/* IndieWebCamp Specifications */ fragmentions" (view diff)
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tantek !tell aaronpk,benwerd,GWG,kylewm,KartikPrabhu,KevinMarks,snarfed take a look at https://indiewebcamp.com/specifications#IndieWebCamp_Specifications and see if there's anything missing in terms of indiewebcamp specs being developed and implemented (e.g. in all your tools, sites, etc.) if so please add a local wiki link to it! Thanks.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com edited /FAQ (+542) "/* How should I markup my site */ What are IndieWebCamp specifications" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /specs (+28) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /specifications (+448) "note existence of other specifications deliberately not listed, because they are not necessary for web independence" (view diff)
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tantek !tell gRegor` could you I trouble you with a request for a few more HWC pages into the future? e.g. https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-02-25-homebrew-website-club thanks good sir!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com edited /specifications (+13) "h-cite" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Template:Homebrew_Website_Club (+162) (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /events/2015-02-25-homebrew-website-club (+4344) "Created page with "<div class="h-event vevent"> = <span class="p-name summary">Homebrew Website Club Meetup</span> = == Details == === When === <span class="dt-start dtstart"><time class="value">..."" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /events/2015-03-11-homebrew-website-club (+4344) "Created page with "<div class="h-event vevent"> = <span class="p-name summary">Homebrew Website Club Meetup</span> = == Details == === When === <span class="dt-start dtstart"><time class="value">..."" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /events/2015-03-25-homebrew-website-club (+4344) "Created page with "<div class="h-event vevent"> = <span class="p-name summary">Homebrew Website Club Meetup</span> = == Details == === When === <span class="dt-start dtstart"><time class="value">..."" (view diff)
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gRegor` tantek: There's through March. Interesting how Feb and March dates are the same.
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Loqi gRegor`: tantek left you a message 7 minutes ago: could you I trouble you with a request for a few more HWC pages into the future? e.g. https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-02-25-homebrew-website-club thanks good sir!
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tantek gRegor`: yeah that happens for non-leap years :)
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tantek want to update home page and /next-hwc too ?
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gregorlove.com edited /next-hwc (+0) "Redirected page to [[events/2015-02-25-homebrew-website-club]]" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Main_Page (+0) "/* Homebrew Website Club */" (view diff)
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gRegor` is done
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tantek gRegornobacktick++ thanks much!
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Loqi gRegornobacktick has 41 karma
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@ChrisSnider83 #amwriting #indieauth or #memes https://twitter.com/ChrisSnider83/status/567225123757772800/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/567225123757772800)
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tantek wat
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gRegor` Haha, indie author, I'm guessing?
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@elfpavlik .@adactio, if *proven by example* that #RDFa enables better web interop. than #microformats, do you think #IndieWeb gang would ever use it? (twitter.com/_/status/567238503113965568)
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pfefferle good morning indieweb
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Loqi pfefferle: GWG left you a message on 2/15 at 8:59am: https://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress_Data Your thoughts?
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pfefferle !tell GWG good idea to start a documentation about the WP metadata!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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pfefferle GWG++
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Loqi GWG has 76 karma
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pfefferle snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 87 karma
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@elfpavlik .@adactio could you select few examples from http://www.w3.org/TR/2015/WD-activitystreams-core-20150129/ which IYO show #RDFa more complex to write than #microfomats? #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/567264048090476544)
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@elfpavlik @adactio maybe #IndieWeb community could support @t with completing much overdue @SocialWebWG ACTION http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/26 ? @indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/567269821507993600)
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hmans Are IndieWeb users (domains) running on non-standard ports a common thing?
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hmans ie. myindiewebdomain.com:1234 instead of :80 or :443?
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GWG Good morning
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Loqi GWG: tantek left you a message 4 hours, 49 minutes ago: take a look at https://indiewebcamp.com/specifications#IndieWebCamp_Specifications and see if there's anything missing in terms of indiewebcamp specs being developed and implemented (e.g. in all your tools, sites, etc.) if so please add a local wiki link to it! Thanks.
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Loqi GWG: pfefferle left you a message 2 hours, 34 minutes ago: good idea to start a documentation about the WP metadata!
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GWG pfefferle: I wish I'd thought of it a long time ago
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pfefferle GWG :)
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petermolnar.eu edited /WordPress_Plugins (+367) "adding Flickr comment importer to the backfeed options" (view diff)
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GWG pfefferle: Trying to decide if I want to adopt snarfed's proposal.
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GWG pfefferle: Oh, and snarfed found my tendencies toward whitespace annoying as well.
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pfefferle GWG :D
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pfefferle GWG what editor do you use?
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GWG vi
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ben_thatmust i thought you sorted out the tab issues yesterday
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GWG ben_thatmust: kylewm did give me some settings advice for vi
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GWG But I still have trouble with style
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GWG pfefferle: I sent a suggestion for SemPress, by the way. Did you have a chance to look at it?
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ben_thatmust just adjusting to how many times to hit tab?
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pfefferle GWG yes, I did and I would like to add it, I hope the WordPress review team likes it also ;)
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GWG ben_thatmust: Not that simple. kylewm gave me the command I couldn't find to adjust tabs.
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GWG pfefferle: Plenty of plugins use their own theme support settings.
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pfefferle GWG what about a plugin that supports for example .editorconfig
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GWG pfefferle: I checked. Woocommerce, for example.
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ben_thatmust GWG, so whats the problem, I use vim too
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pfefferle GWG nice
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GWG ben_thatmust: I just don't see it
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GWG ben_thatmust: Working on my blinders
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ben_thatmust don't see what?
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GWG I'm also going to convert Post Kinds to support a declaration of theme support as well
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GWG ben_thatmust: The alignment issues that drive others crazy
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ben_thatmust ahh, ever since I first saw the K&R C book, i was hooked on doing things a specific way
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ben_thatmust there are plenty of programs to auto fix tabbing on a file though
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GWG ben_thatmust: Got any suggestions on that?
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GWG I think I just have to learn
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ben_thatmust php correct?
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ben_thatmust http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Fix_indentation
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ben_thatmust actually, let vim do it for you :)
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GWG I'll bookmark that
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GWG pfefferle: Before I forget, I want to submit a update for the readme.txt in Semantic Linkbacks. Part of the...try to explain things better thing I'm doing on the side
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pfefferle GWG sure, thanks
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GWG pfefferle: I'm going to try my first branch for that, to not clutter up the other mess I left you.
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pfefferle GWG good luck :)
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GWG pfefferle: I'll get there eventually.
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GWG pfefferle: I may try that idea tantek gave me yesterday...
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pfefferle GWG that is?
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GWG Descriptions like, "Make your plain old linkbacks new again with Semantic Linkbacks."
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GWG Less tech speak, more enthusiasm
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tantek right
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tantek catches up on logs
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tantek funny about @elfpavlik - the opposite is true of this: https://twitter.com/elfpavlik/status/567238503113965568
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@elfpavlik .@adactio, if *proven by example* that #RDFa enables better web interop. than #microformats, do you think #IndieWeb gang would ever use it? (twitter.com/_/status/567238503113965568)
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tantek it *has been proven* by example that #microformats are *easier* *simpler* than RDFa, so what is it going to take for SemWeb/RDF crowd to actually use it to *publish* on their own sites? including elf - instead of just tweeting about it?
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tantek also, as adactio said: https://twitter.com/adactio/status/567240504799424512
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@adactio @elfpavlik Well, that’s down to the individual site owners. From my experience, it’s less about interop: RDFa is just too complex to write. (twitter.com/_/status/567240504799424512)
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tantek and accurate criticism of ActivityStreams: https://twitter.com/adactio/status/567266785486200832
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@adactio @elfpavlik None of those examples make sense for either RDFa or microformats: link and meta elements in the body? Not going to happen. (twitter.com/_/status/567266785486200832)
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GWG pfefferle: Basically, move the current description lower and replace with a more... "Why would you want this thing?" type description
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GWG I've been trying to do that starting with the Indieweb plugin and then Post Kinds.
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tantek GWG, sounds good
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pfefferle GWG nice
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GWG pfefferle: Someone said over the weekend they wanted to add Semantic Linkbacks, but the talk about RDFa and scheme support scared them.
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pfefferle GWG there is no RDFa support
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GWG = How to add RDFa or Schema.org support =
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pfefferle GWG yes, it is possible
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GWG I gathered from someone here that a someone read that and said, "This is way over my head."
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pfefferle GWG really? this is only at the FAQ and should be for developers… perhaps I will add that hint…
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GWG pfefferle: I'll be sending a PR when I get to it. I want to change the header to "How do I extend this plugin?"
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gRegor` Morning, indieweb
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GWG pfefferle: Have you ever tested Semantic Linkbacks with a traditional WordPress site marked up with MF1? How good is it in that scenario?
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GWG Morning, gRegor`
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pfefferle GWG not really…
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pfefferle GWG I got some webmentions from ”žnormal“ WrodPress sites and I think they were fairly good… But if they mainly don’t use rels so all webmentions are displayed as mentions so, it really doesn’t matter...
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GWG pfefferle: I can still say in the readme.txt that it will pretty up all Linkbacks.
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pfefferle GWG sure :D
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GWG That was what I was trying for
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GWG pfefferle: How does this look so far?
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GWG https://github.com/dshanske/wordpress-semantic-linkbacks/blob/readme/readme.txt
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pfefferle GWG sounds good
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GWG Will do a few more revisions then send
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@kevinmarks @timbray indieauth supports openid login visa OAuth 2 (including Google) (twitter.com/_/status/567358246231371777)
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kylewm any ideas why I can't subscribe to https://kylewm.com/ via PuSH? I think I have the link headers set correctly, but curl -i http://kylewm.superfeedr.com/ -d "hub.callback=http://reader.kylewm.com/_push&hub.mode=subscribe&hub.topic=https://kylewm.com/"
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Loqi kylewm: tantek left you a message 9 hours, 37 minutes ago: take a look at https://indiewebcamp.com/specifications#IndieWebCamp_Specifications and see if there's anything missing in terms of indiewebcamp specs being developed and implemented (e.g. in all your tools, sites, etc.) if so please add a local wiki link to it! Thanks.
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kylewm gives an error 422, Please provide a valid hub.topic (feed) URL that is accepted on this hub. The hub does not match.(reader)
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kylewm oops, "(reader)" at the end of that was not part of the error message, overzealous copy/paste
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pfefferle kylewm: the callback URL response is a 404
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kylewm oh, is that the issue?
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pfefferle kylewm you have to verify the callback by displaying the hub.challange https://pubsubhubbub.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/pubsubhubbub-core-0.4.html#rfc.section.5.3
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pfefferle to prevent arbitrarily subscribing
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kylewm ah ha, thanks pfefferle
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pfefferle kylewm your welcome :)
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GWG Hello, kylewm
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kylewm morning GWG
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GWG kylewm: Are you subhubbing?
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kylewm not yet apparently
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GWG Why?
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GWG Why are you supporting it?
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GWG Is there a lot of demand?
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kylewm i want faster updates in woodwind
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gRegor` fasterupdates++
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Loqi fasterupdates has 1 karma
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GWG kylewm: Still not using it. May get there.
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GWG I have a crazy idea
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GWG kylewm: How does woodwind store data on what a user has read/not read?
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kylewm GWG: it doesn't
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aaronpk certainly makes that easier
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 10 hours, 29 minutes ago: take a look at https://indiewebcamp.com/specifications#IndieWebCamp_Specifications and see if there's anything missing in terms of indiewebcamp specs being developed and implemented (e.g. in all your tools, sites, etc.) if so please add a local wiki link to it! Thanks.
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GWG kylewm: So, how do I pick up where I left off?
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GWG I'm not talking about saving articles, just state
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kylewm how do you pick up where you left off on twitter?
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GWG kylewm: It annoys me on Twitter
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tantek good morning
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aaronpk if you look at most current "readers" (things that have timelines) like twitter, instagram, facebook, G+, etc, they don't help you with that
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GWG Morning, tantek.
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GWG aaronpk: G+ does, actually
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kylewm GWG: "no unread count" was a design principle
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tantek kylewm: did you miss the whole premise of "river"? ;)
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tantek oh you're rhetorically answering GWG
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tantek got it
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tantek :)
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tantek checks logs
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GWG kylewm: I don't want to miss what you thought of the cheese plate on Saturday
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aaronpk I usually scroll back until I see something I"ve already seen
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tantek GWG, in principle I agree - there are some people that I don't want to miss any posts from, but for the vast majority, just seeing what's recent is sufficient
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GWG Unread count is different than placeholder though.
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tantek thus when I get around to building my indie reader, I'll likely included (at least) two types of followings
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tantek 1) the few folks I want to see everything from, thus fetch/store/cache everything, 2) the general case of seeing what people are saying recently
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kylewm tantek: admittedly woodwind takes a lot of cues from river4 ...
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aaronpk I also want to avoid the "unread count" which is a sort of panic architecture
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tantek aaronpk, I agree - I don't care for the "unread count"
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tantek however I wouldn't mind a little red dot or something to indicate that there are new posts from the set of folks in group (1) above
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tantek the number is meaningless though
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GWG How about a Jump Back button?
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tantek hey GWG, just catching up on your simplification of the semantic linkbacks plugin
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tantek or description thereof
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GWG tantek: Work In Progress
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tantek so here's the thing, github sucks for wiki-like documentation
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tantek sorry to say
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tantek so for anything beyond just a "readme" it's better on its own site
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tantek or on a "real" wiki
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GWG tantek: This is the actual README in WordPress approved format.
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GWG But I probably will copy/paste into the Indieweb page for the plugin as well
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GWG The format is what it uses to generate the WordPress.org repository page
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tantek GWG, if you want, consider moving all the = How to add RDFa or Schema.org support = stuff to the IndieWebCamp wiki page for Semantic Linkbacks
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tantek in an FAQ
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tantek and then link to that FAQ from the README on github
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GWG Good idea.
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GWG I did change it to How do I extend?
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tantek and just remove it completely from the github and WordPress repo
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GWG It originally wasn't a question
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tantek because as you pointed out nearly no one cares about it, and it scares people
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tantek even "How do I extend?" is rare enough of a use case that it belongs in a separate FAQ
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tantek not the readme
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GWG Makes me think I should rewrite mine
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blog.davidjohnmead.com edited /Known (+975) "/* Transition from WordPress */" (view diff)
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GWG We lose a WordPress user, we gain a WordPress user. Such is life
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tantek kylewm: re: error 422 - could you document your experience with that, and resolution, in a "Troubleshooting" section in /PubSubHubbub ?
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tantek GWG, both are good to document as data points and understand why
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kylewm tantek: yes I will
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tantek as much as I'm skeptical about consuming PuSH, we should at least document experience with it and *try* to make it work.
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aaronpk i'm excited to start consuming PuSH!
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tantek I know both sandeepshetty and barnabywalters were VERY skeptical about consuming PuSH and wanted to give up on it completely
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tantek instead wanting to build something based on webmention
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aaronpk it basically is though
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tantek though I don't know if either proposed something
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tantek kylewm, aaronpk when either one of you start consuming PuSH, please let me know if you are seeing notifications from my posts
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kylewm fwiw Bridgy consumes PuSH
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tantek and if not, let's work together to debug it
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tantek kylewm - how?
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tantek and for what use-cases?
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aaronpk PuSH 0.4 has good properties such as a) not based on XML, b) does not send actual content, it's just a "ping" that says there is new content at this URL
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tantek aaronpk - I still haven't seen a good simple description for "how to" support PuSH 0.4 as a publisher
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tantek so I'm still stuck on PuSH (0.3?) with my legacy Atom feed file :/
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kylewm Bridgy uses it to get updates from Wordpress, Tumblr, and Blogger, in order to send webmentions on their behalf
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tantek because that's what Statusnet consumed
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aaronpk hm this only has a how-to from the consumer side http://pubsubhubbub.superfeedr.com/
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tantek kylewm: wait a minute, since when do WordPress, Tumblr, and Blogger blogs support PuSH notifications?!?
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kylewm tantek: aaronpk: http://documentation.superfeedr.com/publishers.html
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@davidmead Importing content from hosted @withknown blog to a self-hosted one, not so turnkey yet https://indiewebcamp.com/Known#Issues_moving_from_hosted_Known_site .. http://blog.davidjohnmead.com/2015/importing-content-from-hosted-withknown-blog-to-a-self-hosted-one (twitter.com/_/status/567378637989502976)
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Loqi [mention] David Mead commented 'Importing content from hosted @withknown blog to a self-hosted one, not so turnkey yet https://indiewebcamp.com/Known#Issues_moving_from_hos...' on a post https://indiewebcamp.com/Known#Issues_moving_from_hosted_Known_site (http://blog.davidjohnmead.com/2015/importing-content-from-hosted-withknown-blog-to-a-self-hosted-one)
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tantek kylewm: oh they don't - that's just using superfeedr as a synthetic PuSH proxy
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tantek meh
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tantek superfeedr is still polling WordPress, Tumblr, Blogger
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tantek so that's not actually PuSH
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GWG There's a plugin for it on WordPress
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kylewm really? my wordpress.com blog has <atom:link rel='hub' href='https://kylewm.wordpress.com/?pushpress=hub'/>
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tantek it's just PuSH lipstick on a polling pig
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tantek kylewm: so that's my actual question
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tantek since when do WordPress, Tumblr, and Blogger blogs support PuSH notifications?!?
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tantek kylewm, aaronpk, http://documentation.superfeedr.com/publishers.html is useless to me and does not say anything about "not based on XML"
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aaronpk yeah, strange
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tantek so again, I still haven't seen a good simple description for "how to" support PuSH 0.4 as a publisher, ***not based on XML***
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aaronpk so basically the problem with PuSH 0.4 is a documentation problem
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aaronpk because I know it does exactly what we want
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kylewm tantek: what do you mean, it tells you how to send ping for any HTTP resource
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tantek theoretically. we won't know until there is documentation.
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aaronpk biab
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tantek kylewm: no it doesn't. "your-hub-name" is meaningless to me, as is "your.resource.url"
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tantek no real world example
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tantek too handwavy
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GWG kylewm: That's .com, not .org
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kylewm GWG: yes, I said "my wordpress.com blog has..."
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GWG They probably baked the plugin for PushPress in by default
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tantek what is Wordpress.com?
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Loqi Wordpress.com is a blog hosting service that runs the WordPress open source software https://indiewebcamp.com/Wordpress.com
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tantek kylewm: could you document Wordpress.com's PuSH support ^^^
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tantek especially if you can figure out *when* they started supporting it
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@kidehen #LinkedData #URI about #Web data de-silo-fication presentation on @youtube by @t : http://t.co/7pPOvxiY8T. #RSS #Atom #IndieWeb #WebID (twitter.com/_/status/567380628975677441)
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tantek wow those are some funny hashtags to apply to my talk, but ok :)
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tantek.com edited /PubSubHubbub (+251) "/* How To */ How to PuSH from WordPress, mention PushPress per hint from GWG in IRC" (view diff)
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tantek GWG, could you expand upon this? https://indiewebcamp.com/PubSubHubbub#How_to_PuSH_from_WordPress - e.g. link to / describe PushPress ?
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tantek what is PushPress?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "PushPress" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=PushPress&summary=%28prompted+by+tantek+https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-16/line/1424109267493%29
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tantek GWG ^^^
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kylewm.com edited /WordPress.com (+449) "/* Features */ supports PubSubHubbub on Atom feeds since 2010-03-03" (view diff)
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kylewm tantek^^
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davidmead I just watched that talk @tantek. t was good, especially pointing out the lack of focus on UX, opposite to the silos.
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tantek davidmead, funny thing is, the entire SemWeb/RDF/JSON/JSONLD crowd is still ignoring UX
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davidmead @tantek I guess that’s why everyone outside their groups are ignoring them ;-) <snap>
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davidmead I just updated the entry on moving to Known. Trying to import my old Known content shouldn’t involve writing node.js pages, bash scripts and god-knows-what else
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davidmead it’s all UX
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davidmead Though I know Ben & Erin are doing great work and we are testing all this out live, but it’s importent
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kylewm.com edited /Blogger (+142) "/* PubSubHubbub */" (view diff)
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tantek davidmead, yes, very important
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kylewm davidmead: where does node.js get invovled??
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davidmead @kylewm https://github.com/idno/Known/issues/734
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davidmead this is michielbdejong working through the same issue. guess there’s very few of us who’ve tried importing as yet
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david.shanske.com edited /PubSubHubbub (+33) "/* How to PuSH from WordPress */" (view diff)
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GWG Tell you what I'm going to do...
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@kidehen <#Silo> owl:sameAs dbpedia:Silo; skos:narrower <#DataSilo>, <#WebContentSilo>; xhv:related <#NoSilo>. #Nanotation #LinkedData #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/567384871468015616)
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GWG I'll add PushPress to my site
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tantek GWG - awesome!
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GWG I haven't enabled it in a while, because there seemed to be little demand.
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tantek then you can create the /PushPress page and add yourself as in /PushPress#IndieWeb_Examples !
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GWG But why not
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GWG It needs a page?
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david.shanske.com edited /PubSubHubbub (+152) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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tantek GWG - yes of course it needs a page!
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david.shanske.com edited /PubSubHubbub (+1) "/* = David Shanske */" (view diff)
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tantek so you can answer the question
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tantek er, so Loqi can answer the question
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Loqi who, me?
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tantek what is PushPress?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "PushPress" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=PushPress&summary=%28prompted+by+tantek+https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-16/line/1424110394121%29
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david.shanske.com edited /Semantic_Linkbacks (+10) "/* Comment Type Indicator */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /Semantic_Linkbacks (+729) (view diff)
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Loqi [bridgy] Ben Werdmüller replied '@davidmead We're talking about a more OAuth-like mechanism. All help appreciated! @withknown' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Known#Issues_moving_from_hosted_Known_site (https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/567386125971378176)
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@kidehen @elfpavlik @adactio : #RDFa vs #Microformats is yet another formats debate that solves nothing. #NoSilo #DataSilo #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/567396498095497216)
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tantek ^^^ more sharecroppers debating on a silo rather than indiewebifying themselves.
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aaronpk now I wanna make a bot that replies to people who mention some combination of rdfa, microformats, schema and json-ld
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kylewm very trollish behavior from elf... his question is basically "is the indieweb community so in love with their plumbing they wouldn't accept a hypothetical better substitute"
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kylewm aaronpk: doooo it
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kylewm semanticweb_ebooks
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gRegor` +1 for this idea
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aaronpk lol
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kylewm I am like "i interop with *facebook*, so i'll try to interop with any protocol you want if there are people i want to communicate with using it"
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aaronpk kylewm++
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Loqi kylewm has 122 karma
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GWG It's what I've called the Willie Sutton principle.
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GWG Go where the people are
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hmans *looks up RDFa*
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gRegor` What is RDFa?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "RDFa" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=RDFa&summary=%28prompted+by+gRegor`+https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-16/line/1424113944531%29
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kylewm hmans: http://indiewebcamp.com/metadata#Discussion
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@kidehen @t does the #IndieWeb cater to situations where a person doesn't own an #Internet domain? #NoSilo (twitter.com/_/status/567403192980623360)
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tantek we have an FAQ for that: http://indiewebcamp.com/FAQ#Is_everyone_going_to_want_to_run_their_own_website
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aaronpk well he certainly isn't going to notice the reply in IRC
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tantek I can't help that he's trapped in his silo.
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aaronpk :)
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tantek Until he shows an interest in escaping it.
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GWG tantek: I sense a fairy tale analogy there
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@kidehen @schnarfed My point is that you shouldn't need own a domain en route to controlling #Identity and #Personal #DataSpaces on the #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/567405320725864448)
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tantek ^^^ see how negative framing doesn't get you anywhere?
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GWG A subdomain is still a domain
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tantek hence snarfed's reply was reasonable https://twitter.com/schnarfed/status/567405014516105216
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@schnarfed @kidehen sure! one example: free subdomains on https://withknown.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/567405014516105216)
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GWG It is still your place.
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hmans FWIW, Pants thinks in terms of hosts and doesn't really care if it's a foo.com or a my.site.on.foo.com. I hope this still sort of in line with Indieweb.
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ben_thatmust hmans, that might not be a good idea
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hmans I love bad ideas!
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ben_thatmust haha
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Loqi awesome
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aaronpk the main reason to avoid subdomains of hosting providers is that the user is not in control of that identity
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tantek hmans, subdomains are a reasonable stepping stone yes
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tantek ^^^ and that's the reason subdomains are inferior
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GWG tantek: I use a subdomain
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aaronpk but yes it's a reasonable stepping stone, especially if there are good tools to move to your own domain later
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tantek GWG - you use a subdomain of a domain you own
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tantek that's very different
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aaronpk GWG: "subdomains of hosting providers" != "subdomain"
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tantek what is a subdomain?
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Loqi A subdomain typically refers to a domain with one more "name(dot)" component than that which someone actually has registered which is often seen indieweb sites with a family name domain like joel(dot)franusic(dot)com, or often on silos like matt(dot)wordpress(dot)com https://indiewebcamp.com/subdomain
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ben_thatmust honestly i rather prefer support of subdomains, it allows for "unwalled gardens"
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tantek there we go - both cases covered in the dfn :D
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hmans alice.bob.com is still Alice's identity, but it's controlled by Bob, which obviously isn't pure Indieweb.
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hmans But I think it's important to note that alice.bob.com still works as identity, especially if Alice trusts Bob.
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tantek hmans - it's not about "pure"
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tantek the point is, Alice is then *dependent* on Bob
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tantek dependent is the *opposite* of independent
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tantek not independent = not indieweb
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ben_thatmust so all *.withknown.com is not indieweb?
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tantek ben_thatmust: what about withknown's TOS makes you think it is indieweb?
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tantek (there's actually a good answer in there - I want to see who else has found it)
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hmans tantek, but my domain depends on my registrar. I need to trust them to not change A records at will.
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hmans I depend on them and I trust them, and most of the time that works out fine. Isn't there a reasonable balance between independence and being dependent on people you trust?
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ben_thatmust there is always going to be some level of dependence, registrar, DNS, etc. I its more important to get everyone able to work together, than the fact that they have someone else doing their systems for them
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tantek hmans - historically "people you trust" has failed
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tantek whereas DNS providers have a solid well established *business*
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ben_thatmust s/I its/I think its/
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Loqi ben_thatmust meant to say: there is always going to be some level of dependence, registrar, DNS, etc. I think its more important to get everyone able to work together, than the fact that they have someone else doing their systems for them
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tantek what is DNS?
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Loqi DNS is an abbreviation for Domain Name Server and often used to refer to the configuring thereof https://indiewebcamp.com/DNS
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tantek hmans, re: DNS and registrars in particular, see: https://indiewebcamp.com/federation#DNS_Exception
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hmans Bob trusts his DNS to not mess with his domain. He trusts the hoster of the VM his code is running on not to shut it down for fun. He trusts ISPs to route his packets. Everything we do online only works because we trust a lot of people to do their job right. Why should Alice not trust Bob?
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hmans Is Bob's trust into a service provider more justified than Alice's trust in Bob, who may be a close friend?
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tantek hmans yes
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tantek Bob *pays* his DNS provider to provide a service. the DNS provider has regular monetary incentive to not mess with Bob's domain.
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aaronpk i've hosted sites for several friends in the past. ultimately as the years pass, they end up wanting to move to a hosting provider *under their own control*
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tantek Everything we do online does NOT only work because "we trust a lot of peopel to do their job right".
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tantek Everything we do online only works because we *pay* a lot of people to do their job right.
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hmans tantek, so alice.bob.com becomes Indieweb once Alice pays Bob a fee?
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ben_thatmust so by that logic, if I payed for facebook, and it supported indieweb protocols, its indieweb
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tantek hmans - potentially, depends on the TOS
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aaronpk also don't forget the important part where if you are paying your host and they screw somtehing up you can move to another host and you don't need to tell anyone else
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aaronpk alice.bob.com will always rely on bob.com
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tantek ben_thatmust: nope. Facebook's TOS is quite anti indieweb.
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ben_thatmust well, it would involve different TOS
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aaronpk but alice.com pointing to servers that bob.com is running can be swapped out any time
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aaronpk do we have a name for this?
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aaronpk portability?
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tantek ben_thatmust - that's already covered in indiewebcamp.com/friendly
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tantek aaronpk: no portability is not it
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tantek because that framing is stuck in obsolete export/import thinking
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tantek which breaks all URLs
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aaronpk hm yeah
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ben_thatmust all of this was just basically me making an arguement that just because you are on a subdomain, does not make you non-indieweb
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aaronpk what's the word then?
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tantek hence breaks your web presence
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tantek ben_thatmust: like I said, the subdomain dfn already covered your argument
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tantek what is a subdomain?
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Loqi A subdomain typically refers to a domain with one more "name(dot)" component than that which someone actually has registered which is often seen indieweb sites with a family name domain like joel(dot)franusic(dot)com, or often on silos like matt(dot)wordpress(dot)com https://indiewebcamp.com/subdomain
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aaronpk this is an important distinction between running your web presence on subdomains vs using a hosting provider
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tantek ben_thatmust: see first example: " family name domain like joel(dot)franusic(dot)com"
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tantek ben_thatmust: see this in particular for necessary (but not likely sufficient) aspects of an indieweb friendly host: http://indiewebcamp.com/friendly#Enable_independence
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ben_thatmust heh, i'm on there
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tantek in particular this is a big one: "Provide HTTP redirects if users want to change their domain name, or switch from a subdomain on your service to their own domain name "
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GWG I like having my full name as a url
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tantek I don't know of any web silo that does that
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GWG But I also have a short URL when needed
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GWG di5.us
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tantek GWG - indeed, full name just like joel(dot)franusic(dot)com already in the dfn
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tantek GWG, so add yourself to https://indiewebcamp.com/subdomain#IndieWeb_Examples
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tantek.com edited /subdomain (+2) "/* Joel Franusic */ fix copy/pasteo" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /subdomain (+1) "/* Subdomain advantages disadvantags */ disadvantagEs typo" (view diff)
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GWG I'm just everywhere today
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KevinMarks wordpress provides redirects
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Loqi KevinMarks: tantek left you a message on 2/15 at 10:57pm: take a look at https://indiewebcamp.com/specifications#IndieWebCamp_Specifications and see if there's anything missing in terms of indiewebcamp specs being developed and implemented (e.g. in all your tools, sites, etc.) if so please add a local wiki link to it! Thanks.
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tantek KevinMarks - can you quote from the TOS or UI where it says so?
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KevinMarks http://en.support.wordpress.com/site-redirect/
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tantek KevinMarks - that's worth adding to /friendly as an example
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KevinMarks https://store.wordpress.com/premium-upgrades/redirect/ $13/year
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tantek and note how that's more expensive than owning your own domain
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tantek so we're back to the cost issue
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aaronpk fwiw i'm making this wordpress-microformats2 importer also generate an htaccess file that will redirect all the old URLs to the new wordpress URLs
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aaronpk but it assumes you're moving from non-wordpress to wordpress on the same domain
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tantek in fact, KevinMarks, it's a bit of a trap, since creating a .wordpress.com is free, but keeping the URLs working is MORE expensive that if you'd created your own domain in the first place!
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tantek aaronpk - it's good to start with assumptions based on such concrete use-cases
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tantek solving the 80/20 first and all that
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aaronpk I mean it'd work just as well if you can drop an htaccess file on the other domain you're moving from
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aaronpk So like if known supported serving an htaccess file on your known subdomain that'd be a good way to redirect and migrate off of known
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tantek aaronpk, any such domain moves are presumably because you lack sufficient control of the domain you are moving *from*, thus it is *unlikely* that you'd be able to drop an htaccess file there
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tantek because I mean, if you *could* drop an htaccess on your *from* domain, then why bother moving in the first place?
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tantek (besides personal naming changes - e.g. you expect to own both domains in perpetuity)
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KevinMarks right' but it is better than the homepage.mac.com blackholing
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aaronpk actually there's no reason for a provider to support htaccess redirects if they can just redirect the whole user.withknown.com -> user.com
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aaronpk related... any wordpress people know how to make a plugin define an ajax handler? i'm following this but it's not working http://codex.wordpress.org/AJAX_in_Plugins
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KevinMarks right, then redirects are the new site's problem
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tantek path redirects yes
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tantek aaronpk as long as it is purely a domain redirect and the path is preserved
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aaronpk right yes
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tantek I say this because many such redirects DROP the path
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tantek real world example opensocial.org
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aaronpk lame
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tantek but real
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KevinMarks re the PuSH discussion erlier, I was startign to capture the things that make up a reader here: https://indiewebcamp.com/reader-components
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KevinMarks remembers how much that domain cost to buy
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aaronpk GWG: have you made an admin plugin that does ajax requests?
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tantek KevinMarks - that pages looks highly hypothetical, and antithetical to any of our methdologies
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tantek I suggest you rewrite it in terms of real world reader examples
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tantek OR as a brainstorm in terms of the reader you are building yourself for kevinmarks.com
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tantek you're either an expert by studying and citing real world examples, or by building one yourself. anything else is armchair sportsfanning.
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KevinMarks I need to go and link to examples, yes.
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aaronpk i don't plan on building "entry read state" fwiw
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aaronpk and reader.kylewm.com doesn't either, and it's a perfectly functional reader
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tantek aaronpk, good examples of the point I'm making about methodology
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@dariusdunlap The results from some weekend work on my web server. #IndieWeb @indiewebcamp Nginx FTW! https://twitter.com/dariusdunlap/status/567417134196613120/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/567417134196613120)
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tantek KevinMarks - invert your process
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tantek *start* with examples
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tantek and list the features of each one underneath each one
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KevinMarks right, and unmung.com is a reader that doesn't do some of the other pieces
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aaronpk the search results of https://www.google.com/search?q=wordpress+admin+ajax+always+returning+%220%22 are surprisingly unhelpful
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GWG aaronpk: No. I found the documentation surprisingly vague and because of that, I didn't bother to learn ajax.
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aaronpk odd... if I move this function definition to the top, then it works. some weird wordpress magic going on here.
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ben_thatmust i dislike wordpress magic
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GWG aaronpk: I will summon the WordPress deities by saying the word that fills them with dread.
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aaronpk carry on, everything is fine now
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aaronpk waves hands to cast a magic wordpress spell
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GWG Never mind then
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KevinMarks is there some call order weirdness going on?
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aaronpk i dunno, it's fine now
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dariusdunlap I need “retweet from IRC” as a too…
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dariusdunlap As in… “RT @tantek(irc) - “tantek: you're either an expert by studying and citing real world examples, or by building one yourself. anything else is armchair sportsfanning.”
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dariusdunlap lol
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tantek dariusdunlap: if you can use your site to repost any h-entry on the web, then you can repost this and POSSE to twitter: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-16/line/1424117655155
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki liked a post http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-16/line/1424117655155 (https://aaronparecki.com/likes/2015/02/16/1/)
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki liked a post http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-16/line/1424117655155 (https://aaronparecki.com/likes/2015/02/16/1/)
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dariusdunlap Hey, very nice.
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aaronpk like that
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dariusdunlap Now I need a new IRC client, I suppose.
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tantek aaronpk - why did you like it twice? or is Loqi confused? or did you duplicate webmentions?
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aaronpk i think i sent two webmentions
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dariusdunlap ;-)
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aaronpk do not know why
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tantek aaronpk - do you POSSE your non-tweet reposts to Twitter?
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aaronpk no
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tantek per https://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#POSSE_Reposts_to_Twitter
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tantek however even that is limited
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tantek because we figured this out too: http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/reposts##Reposting%20an%20indie%20post%20WITHOUT%20a%20POSSE%20tweet
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KartikPrabhu https://twitter.com/meyerweb/status/567410858784215041
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: tantek left you a message on 2/15 at 10:57pm: take a look at https://indiewebcamp.com/specifications#IndieWebCamp_Specifications and see if there's anything missing in terms of indiewebcamp specs being developed and implemented (e.g. in all your tools, sites, etc.) if so please add a local wiki link to it! Thanks.
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@meyerweb My @WordPress admin pages are completely failing in Firrefox Nightly; apparently jQuery, possibly all JS, isn’t loading there. Anyone else? (twitter.com/_/status/567410858784215041)
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aaronpk *whew* after lots of fiddling with the wordpress plugin framework I am now ready to actually start writing code to create wordpress posts
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GWG aaronpk: If you want to write any other plugin while you are neck deep....the ecosystem needs them
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aaronpk i really don't
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GWG aaronpk: If I didn't ask, then I might lose my Outreach Club cred.
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aaronpk :)
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tantek GWG++
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Loqi GWG has 77 karma
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gRegor` aaronpk: Did you figure out the AJAX or still need help?
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aaronpk i'm good thanks
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gRegor` K
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GWG Only 600 more karma to go and I can catch up with aaronpk
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aaronpk GWG: do you know if there are docs on how the various plugins store metadata like the in-reply-to URL or where the "likes" are stored?
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GWG https://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress_Data
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GWG It's a WIP
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GWG Are you referring to likes of a post or a post that is a like?
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aaronpk cool
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aaronpk both
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GWG Outbound, the only option right now that is developed is the Post Kinds.
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GWG It's just a taxonomy with terms
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GWG Inbound, is the webmention/semantic linkbacks combo
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GWG That is outlined there
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GWG Webmentions are comments of type 'webmention' with metadata noting the semantic_linkbacks_type of 'like' etc
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GWG snarfed has a draft proposal of storing properties as metadata with the prefix mf2_
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GWG I haven't decided if I'll change my metadata to match going forward. That just started this weekend. As of now, I can advise that the micropub plugin does store it that way
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aaronpk for example given this post, http://caseorganic.com/replies/2014/02/11/7/comments-indieweb I need to import everything into wordpress
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aaronpk so I need to store the in-reply-to URL as well as put the favorite somewhere
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GWG Okay
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GWG aaronpk: I'd store it in two places
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GWG Store it in the field I'm using, and the draft field snarfed has proposed for it
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GWG Cover both bases
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aaronpk yikes okay
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GWG aaronpk: I'm thinking of, because of his micropub plugin, that I'll support those fields regardless of whether I decide to use them going forward
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GWG aaronpk: That's why I suggested a standard going forward
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GWG To save the yikes.
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tantek GWG, "cover both bases" sounds like a recipe for future DRY violation disaster
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GWG tantek: I would agree.
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GWG tantek: I just need time
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GWG How do I decide if I should join snarfed's proposal or stick with my own?
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GWG tantek: You are a standards person. You have any anecdotes that might help me?
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GWG Anyone else?
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KevinMarks the usual way to transition is to read from both places, but write to the new one
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aaronpk GWG: every post is always the "post" type right? I don't need to worry about other wordpress post types?
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KevinMarks so as you touch each thing it gets translated
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GWG aaronpk: I don't use any custom post types myself. It was an alternative instead of using a taxonomy on the standard type, but this seemed like it would be less intrusive.
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aaronpk okay
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tantek GWG - snarfed's proposal seems reasonable. Only nit I would pick is "uf2" instead of "mf2" but that's personal preference (the "u" looks closer to a µ for "micro")
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@kidehen @elfpavlik Nothing's more interoperable than a relation identified by a hyperlink. That's the <#Web><#IndieWeb><#SemanticWeb><#LinkedData> (twitter.com/_/status/567429653816946690)
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GWG tantek: You want to add that to the wiki?
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GWG I just hate changing standards.
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tantek I can yes
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GWG KevinMarks: That is what I planned. Last time, I ended up with a mess because I tried to bulk convert.
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tantek.com edited /WordPress_Data (+913) "/* Microformats data */ use uf2 instead of mf2 derivative proposal" (view diff)
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tantek GWG done
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GWG I'll support reading from the new locations. I thought snarfed was right about the names. I won't fight about the array vs single key values issue.
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aaronpk yay I inserted a post!
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tantek GWG https://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress_Data#use_uf2_instead_of_mf2
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GWG tantek: I have to talk to snarfed.
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GWG He's already using mf2.
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@kidehen Using #nanotation to move content through any #Web #Silo: http://t.co/2DwfwloxsF. #IndieWeb #LinkedData #SocialMedia /cc @davewiner (twitter.com/_/status/567433815526625280)
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GWG I'm using mf2_s for the Microformats 2 version of _s. But that's not related
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@mshook RT @kidehen: Using #nanotation to move content through any #Web #Silo: http://t.co/2DwfwloxsF. #IndieWeb #LinkedData #SocialMedia /cc @dave… (twitter.com/_/status/567434165566832640)
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GWG I have to figure out how to map what he's done so far to what I've done.
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aaronpk oh you're storing the raw micropub request data in wordpress?
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GWG aaronpk: https://github.com/snarfed/wordpress-micropub/blob/master/micropub.php#L343
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aaronpk yeahj just saw that
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GWG aaronpk: I proposed we store the properties. Which sparked the data discussion
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GWG I'm not storing it that way, but I could.
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aaronpk okay i'm now storing post content and geo metadata. next up is the "post kinds"
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GWG aaronpk: I might be messing you up on that though if I change the plugin
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GWG That is my concern.
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aaronpk what happens to all the blogs using the plugin right now?
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GWG aaronpk: I'll write something to, as KevinMarks mentioned, to migrate the data as retrieved
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aaronpk i'm going to make it work the way the plugin works right now. if you change the plugin then the migration will happen normally
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aaronpk here is my work so far, btw https://github.com/aaronpk/wordpress-microformats2-import
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GWG I may consult someone in here before deploying it.
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aaronpk question about the response data: https://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress_Data#Response
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aaronpk i assume those are post meta names like response_url?
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GWG Actually, they are an array
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aaronpk how do I store an array in post meta?
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GWG It does it automatically
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GWG IF you send it in.
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GWG Use update_post_meta
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aaronpk so, update_post_meta($post_id, 'response', array('url'=>'','title'=>''....)?
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GWG That works.
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aaronpk k
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GWG Until Version 1.2 or so
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@hmans @marcoarment I wish I could send you a webmention, you know. (twitter.com/_/status/567437507617644544)
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tantek since it's bordering on on topic and I don't think aaronpk will mind ...
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tantek aaronpk said: "I don't even know how to put images in my rss feed"
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tantek that's part of the longterm problem / tax of the DRY violating approach of sidefiles
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tantek for every new thing, you now have to solve it twice
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tantek once for how you publish it in HTML - because that's how the web works
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tantek how people search / find / read content on the web
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tantek and then SECOND how do you duplicate the information in RSS or any other DRY violating feed file
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tantek this doubling of innovation costs means that anyone that depends on RSS as a technology will always be behind those of us who are using "just" the existing HTML with minor additions of microformats classes
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tantek this is why we've figured out how to post articles vs. notes, events, rsvps, likes, reposts, checkins etc. in HTML + microformats
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tantek and RSS has not
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tantek (that and they're stuck arguing about plumbing, which means you waste lots of time on that, as opposed to arguing about UI / presentation, which means you spend as little time on plumbing as possible)
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tantek hmans - to which post of @marcoarment's did you want to send a webmention to?
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gRegor` As far as I remember, just wrapping the HTML in CDATA is the "simplest" way to add images to RSS. Not that it's probably a big itch for you, aaronpk
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tantek gRegor`: if that's the case, then "just" treat RSS as a dumb envelope format, and wrap the HTML h-entry in CDATA
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tantek inside an RSS item
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gRegor` Yep
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tantek we'll do all the innovation in the h-entry
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hmans tantek, I just find it interesting that he was one of the first prolific people to rant against blog comments, now writes about fighting for the web, and apparently has no interest in (or is ignorant of) Indieweb principles.
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gRegor` (implied quotes around my 'just' too :)
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tantek hmans - is he at least ranting on his own site? or just tweets?
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hmans tantek, site.
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@kevinmarks “we need to start pushing back against the trend, modernizing blogs, & building what we want to come next.” http://www.marco.org/2015/02/16/google-and-blogs-shit #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/567439406051516416)
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tantek was just going to ask hmans, can you provide example(s) of his posts "about fighting for the web"
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gRegor` Don't htink marco posts notes on his site, so some of it Twitter only. He's usually pretty good about putting his thoughts into articles on his own site though
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tantek hmans - your @-reply could have been POSSE threaded as a reply to https://twitter.com/marcoarment/status/567430788019650560
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@marcoarment Google and blogs: “Shit.” http://www.marco.org/2015/02/16/google-and-blogs-shit (twitter.com/_/status/567430788019650560)
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tantek s/could/should
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Loqi tantek meant to say: hmans - your @-reply should have been POSSE threaded as a reply to https://twitter.com/marcoarment/status/567430788019650560
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tantek :)
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tantek because this looks like an @-reply to nothing, whereas clearly it is an @-reply to a specific post that you want to send a webmention to, likely that one. https://twitter.com/hmans/status/567437507617644544
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@hmans @marcoarment I wish I could send you a webmention, you know. (twitter.com/_/status/567437507617644544)
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aaronpk whoa marco has two rss feeds
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aaronpk "Follow Marco.org posts: Twitter, RSS feed, or the alternate RSS feed in which link posts always point here first instead of their targets. "
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aaronpk I don't even know what that means
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tantek aaronpk - it's because RSS ambiguity
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tantek his "alternate RSS feed" provides marco.org permalinks for his bookmark posts
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aaronpk oh gotcha
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tantek whereas his "normal" RSS feed skips marco.org bookmark post permalinks, and instead provides inline links directly to the things being bookmarked
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tantek the "alternate RSS feed" is more indieweb
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tantek he doesn't seem to support pingbacks either
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aaronpk probably because pingbacks are mostly spam
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GWG Aaronpk, not because they are pingbacks
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aaronpk GWG: "response['author'] - The author" what exactly is that suppose to be? author name?
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GWG Aaronpk, yes
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aaronparecki.com edited /WordPress_Data (+5) "/* Response */ clarify" (view diff)
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aaronpk you don't store the author's URL?
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aaronpk GWG: and what format should the date be in? 'Y-m-d H:i:s'?
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GWG Aaronpk, re the URL, not yet. As for date, I'm not supporting it yet, so haven't decided.
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tantek politely sidesteps the readable date format question.
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aaronpk i assume a machine-readable date format and the wp theme would make it human-readable
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aaronpk i'll just pass through whatever is in the HTML
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aaronpk in my case it is full iso8601 with timezone offset
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GWG Aaronpk, iso8601 is great
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aaronpk GWG: having trouble finding docs on how to create post kinds
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GWG aaronpk, look up custom taxonomies and how to set terms
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aaronpk "Here's an example of adding the term "Bob" to post ID number 123 in the "person" taxonomy: wp_set_object_terms( 123, 'Bob', 'person' );"
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aaronpk what values are you using?
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aaronpk i don't see anything on https://indiewebcamp.com/Post_Kinds_Plugin
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GWG http://codex.wordpress.org/Function_Reference/wp_set_post_terms
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gRegor` Nice. You can add ?w=1 to a Github pull request to ignore whitespace differences.
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gRegor` Did not know that.
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GWG I am not using the broader command
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aaronpk GWG: but what values are you using? and what is the taxonomy name?
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GWG Taxonomy name is 'kind'
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GWG I planned on adding it to the wiki.
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GWG All lowercase terms
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@julien51 And the #indieweb movement cruelly misses this point: on the web owning is worthless if you do not control distribution. (twitter.com/_/status/567446250828484608)
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GWG They are in the readme.
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GWG But I will add them to the wiki.
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aaronpk checks again
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tantek wow that makes no sense from julien51
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aaronpk https://github.com/dshanske/indieweb-post-kinds#post-kinds
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tantek we do control distribution. it's called HTML over HTTP at URLs, peer to peer.
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aaronpk i see strings like "Article" and "Photo", but those are not lowercase
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aaronpk is that the literal string I use?
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aaronpk tantek: maybe he means distribution in the POSSE sense?
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GWG aaronpk, correct strings, but all lowercase.
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GWG Otherwise...
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aaronpk GWG: okay that would be good to add in the readme or wiki page
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@joshelman RT @julien51: And the #indieweb movement cruelly misses this point: on the web owning is worthless if you do not control distribution. (twitter.com/_/status/567446917651525632)
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@aaronpk @julien51 Not sure I understand why you think #indieweb misses the point? (http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2015/02/16/2/indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/567446999230713856)
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GWG Aaronpk, I agree fully
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tantek btw - history cares not for the distributors, only archives of the publishers
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@tek_fin RT @julien51: And the #indieweb movement cruelly misses this point: on the web owning is worthless if you do not control distribution. (twitter.com/_/status/567447560865218560)
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gRegor` "cruelly"? What?
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tantek ^^^ also, more negative framing that is absolutely worthless in terms of anything actionable! yay!
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Loqi woot
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gRegor` Let's revisit that tweet URL in a decade.
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GWG Controlling distribution sounds very corporate
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aaronpk couldn't fit the hashtag on twitter, but: https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/567447739772829696
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@aaronpk @julien51 What good is controlling distribution if you don't control the content? Start by owning your content instead of posting to Twitter (twitter.com/_/status/567447739772829696)
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tantek nicely done aaronpk
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tantek apparently he doesn't understand POSSE
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aaronpk the thread continues, but 140 chars is not a lot when you want to add hashtags
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KevinMarks_ The idea that blogs succeeded because of rss is laughable. Blogs succeeded because their linking practices were highly favoured by pagerank era Google
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/567448253839310850
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@aaronpk @julien51 I'm all for p2p distribution using PuSH, but we have to start somewhere! Using Twitter for distribution is a good bootstrap. (twitter.com/_/status/567448253839310850)
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aaronpk GWG: is this correct then? wp_set_post_terms( 123, 'reply', 'kind' );
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gRegor` https://twitter.com/julien51/status/567447290088943618
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@julien51 @aaronpk because POSSE means you focus on publishing and rely on others to distribute. (twitter.com/_/status/567447290088943618)
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GWG Yes, aaronpk
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aaronpk thanks
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gRegor` ^ I would rather concern myself with making it easier for people to *consume* rather than to *distribute*
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GWG Do you rely on others or offer the option?
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gRegor` Make it easier for them to use a /reader rather than them having to find some hot new app to consume/interact
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tantek gRegor`: there's no "relying" with POSSE
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tantek POSSE merely *expands* your distribution
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gRegor` Good point.
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GWG I'd rather more people communicated using webmentions, but...
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KevinMarks_ POSSE diversifies your distribution, while maintaining your archive
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tantek gRegor`: @julien51 is still so stuck in the Twitter walled garden (since he doesn't own his tweets) that he doens't get it.
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tantek s/doens/doesn
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Loqi tantek meant to say: gRegor`: @julien51 is still so stuck in the Twitter walled garden (since he doesn't own his tweets) that he doesn't get it.
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GWG A gilded cage is still a cage
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aaronpk GWG: that doesn't seem to be setting the kind properly
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gRegor` It's an interesting through process, like distribution doesn't start when you post it, but rather when you put it into a silo, just because that's where so many people are. But yeah, distribution starts when you post it.
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gRegor` s/through/thought/
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Loqi gRegor` meant to say: It's an interesting thought process, like distribution doesn't start when you post it, but rather when you put it into a silo, just because that's where so many people are. But yeah, distribution starts when you post it.
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tantek gRegor`: exactly. when you don't own your identity, your site, your posts, then you are oblivious to that.
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@chuq @GlennF but I’m really buying into the indieweb ideal to a good degree. next project: insource from flickr. (twitter.com/_/status/567451512159207424)
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aaronpk GWG: works with wp_set_object_terms tho
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gRegor` Loosely following this WP import talk . . . makes me very glad I'm not doing it.
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GWG Aaronpk, yes. Just wanted to make sure you knew that I only used the post post type
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aaronpk GWG: it wasn't working with wp_set_post_terms
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GWG Odd
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aaronpk gRegor`: heh sorry to be flooding the channel with it...
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gRegor` No worries. Not a complaint.
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aaronpk hopefully the result is useful though, this will support importing any h-entry site into wordpress
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gRegor` Totally
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tantek it does make it clear how complicated it is to import flat file storage into wordpress's database schema / tables
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aaronpk this has nothing to do with flat file
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aaronpk i'm reading the microformats2 markup from the HTML
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GWG aaronpk++
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aaronpk the input to this plugin is a list of URLs that are h-entrys, it makes a post for each h-entry it finds
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Loqi aaronpk has 703 karma
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tantek aaronpk - the latter half of my point still stands
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aaronpk yes, it's true for any system though. you always have to learn its way of handling storage
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tantek yet there's a big difference between an open standard format, and a project-one-off "format" (AKA database schema)
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aaronpk GWG: so for photo posts, where does the photo go?
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tantek i.e. it would be better if you could simply swap out MySQL/customWPschema and just have WP code *directly* read/write from/to flat files of h-entrys
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GWG Aaronpk, set as featured image
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aaronpk so I have to upload the image first, then set it as featured?
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GWG But also in the media library and the post itself
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tantek GWG, uh seriously?
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tantek I thought "featured" images were only supposed to be for the "primary" image of something that is an article etc.
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GWG Aaronpk, yes.
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tantek rather than for /photo posts
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GWG Tantek, the old term for it was post thumbnail
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GWG Snarfed, I need your input
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tantek GWG, precisely. *thumbnail* as in not the *main* thing of the post.
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aaronpk i gotta run, will be back at this later...
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tantek sounds like photo posts in WP were/are a bit of a hack then
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gRegor` What is post kind?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "post kind" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=post+kind&summary=%28prompted+by+gRegor`+https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-16/line/1424126541490%29
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GWG Tantek, I see it as a summary of the post
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tantek uh aaronpk - that URL gives a 404
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tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-16/line/1424126541490%29
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tantek hah - gRegor` 's backtick screwed up the create link
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gRegor` sheepish
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gRegor` tantek: What do you think about moving some WordPress pages to subpages, like /Webmention_Plugin to /WordPress/Webmention ?
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gRegor` Similar for /WordPress_Data
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tantek gRegor`: bad idea IMO - then you get lost in hierarchy discussions / arguments
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KevinMarks_ Little gregor` tables we call him
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gRegor` We don't often do subpages often, aside from the 'camps, so I wasn't sure your thoughts.
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tantek.com created /post_kind (+34) "(prompted by gRegor` https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-16/line/1424126541490) r" (view diff)
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gRegor` Ok
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tantek gRegor`: in practice there are very few good (obvious, non-complicated, non-never-ending-discussion) reasons for hierarchy
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tantek years (and events) for example
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KevinMarks_ Aaronpk - loqi suggestion: If someone responds to a "what is x" question with "x is…" loqi should create the page with stub and dfn
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Loqi is done
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gRegor` sticks a fork in Loqi
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tantek I feel like we need more FAQs to quickly answer trollish tweets about the indieweb by people who don't bother to own their own notes in the first place.
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aaronpk agreed
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tantek and perhaps we should document them somewhere other than "useful" questions
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tantek like we should keep /FAQ purely for actually honestly interested / productive / positive questions
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tantek and move all the "why don't you x?" or "what good is x?" type questions to another page
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tantek perhaps /misconceptions
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tantek that way people looking for actually useful FAQs won't be distracted / bored by the trollish tweet questions
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tantek no reason give any more distribution to trollish questions - better to contain them all in one sandbox page
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aaronpk omfg that was obscure
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tantek is that a self referential comment?
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aaronpk apparently there is a wordpress "validate URL" function that rejects URLs which point to the same IP address that WP is running on
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aaronpk but it just fails with a generic "invalid URL" error
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aaronpk reading wordpress core source code to figure this out makes my eyes bleed
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tantek right, not like you'd expect it simply syntax validate a URL :P
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david.shanske.com edited /WordPress_Data (+292) "/* Taxonomies */" (view diff)
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aaronpk good to know wordpress is doing two DNS lookups every time it's validating URLs :(
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tantek wow
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tantek aaronpk - just goes to show, you don't need clean code to succeed
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david.shanske.com edited /WordPress_Data (+32) "/* Response */" (view diff)
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GWG snarfed: Are you for or against uf2 as opposed to mf2?
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snarfed GWG: oh. hmm.
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Loqi snarfed: tantek left you a message on 2/15 at 10:57pm: take a look at https://indiewebcamp.com/specifications#IndieWebCamp_Specifications and see if there's anything missing in terms of indiewebcamp specs being developed and implemented (e.g. in all your tools, sites, etc.) if so please add a local wiki link to it! Thanks.
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aaronpk GWG: so for photo posts, what should the post html include?
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aaronpk e.g. include an <img> tag to the photo, or just the text that was part of the photo post and let the theme handle displaying the photo
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GWG I usually use the photo and caption.
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tantek aaronpk - for all posts, have you tried including the entire e-content as is as "the post html" ?
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GWG The theme handling is why I set featured image?
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snarfed i guess i'd vote mf2, since i see that in existing code much more often than uf2 (php-mf2, mf2py, mf2util, etc)…and imho mf2 is more obvious (and maybe less clever)
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tantek I mean, seriously, why not? wouldn't that be highest fidelity
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kylewm μf2 or mf2
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tantek ooh - snarfed makes good points
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snarfed but i *really* don't feel strongly, and i probably wouldn't engage in the debate too much :P
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aaronpk tantek: i have to upload the photos and rewrite the URLs anyway
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GWG snarfed: You are using it now.
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aaronpk otherwise they're going to be dead links
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GWG I'm not. But plan to use it
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tantek aaronpk that doesn't mean you have to open up redesigning the markup!
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pwcc Hi indieweb. Great work over the last few days on WP.
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tantek if you have to rewrite the URLs, do so, and fix the URLs in the existing e-content
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GWG snarfed: I don't feel strongly either. That's why I was hoping you did
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aaronpk for articles that's all i'm going to do, but i'm curious how it handles photo posts specifically
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snarfed thanks pwcc!
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tantek aaronpk - why not do that for all kinds of posts?
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tantek not just articles
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GWG aaronpk: So far, in my theme, if there is a featured image set, I use it to generate the post. If there isn't, I use the post-content.
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GWG pwcc: I'm going to say thanks. But not sure if you meant me
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aaronpk GWG: hmm okay..
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aaronpk the easiest thing for me to do then is to ignore the featured image thingy
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snarfed.org edited /WordPress_Data (+179) "/* Microformats data */ cite wp-mp" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - agreed.
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GWG snarfed: Then my answer is this...you implemented it already as mf2. No point in you changing it. So I'll match you
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aaronpk and in that case, since the h-entry HTML actually has the img tag with u-photo already in it, i can ignore the mf2 property "photo"
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tantek aaronpk - or rather, don't bother with WP featured image unless you already have a u-featured in the h-entry!
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GWG aaronpk: But you should have it in the WordPress media library
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tantek what is the WordPress media library?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "WordPress media library" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=WordPress+media+library&summary=%28prompted+by+tantek+https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-16/line/1424129095127%29
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snarfed GWG: sgtm. on a related note…out of curiosity, why migrate post kinds to the new storage model yet at all?
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snarfed GWG: do you want to start using micropub right now, and you want it to interop w/post kinds?
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GWG snarfed: I want everything to interop.
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pwcc GWG I include you in that group :) I'm jealous I need to spend my free time writing a talk.
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GWG I'm not using Micropub right now, but I may want to.
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snarfed GWG: ok. so you do plan to start using micropub right now?
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aaronpk yes so I'll actually parse the html and look for img tags, upload each to the media library then replace the URLs in the HTML
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GWG snarfed: No. I have other things to do first.
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snarfed ok. honestly i'd suggest maybe wait until you do use it. it's early for a lot of this wp stuff, so maybe wait until someone actually wants the interop real world
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aaronpk now...can I get away with parsing the HTML with regex? :D
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snarfed regex++
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Loqi regex has 2 karma
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snarfed regex--
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kylewm *whispers* do it
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snarfed regex??
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GWG snarfed: I was going to spend time getting Syndication Links ready for the repository first anyway
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tantek.com edited /WordPress_Data (+215) "/* Microformats data */ why mf2 is better than uf2" (view diff)
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aaronpk parsing html is no fun. i'm very glad we have microformats parsers that do all the work
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GWG pwcc: What do you still think is missing?
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pwcc GWG to be honest, I haven't been paying enough attention. I've just noticed a lot of work going in to it.
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aaronpk <img.+src="([^"]+)"
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aaronpk good enough
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GWG pwcc: Trying to get it right.
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pwcc GWG: Will social id's be recommended for storage on /WordPress_Data
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gRegor` regex(\+{2})
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pwcc s/id's/IDs
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Loqi pwcc meant to say: GWG: Will social IDs be recommended for storage on /WordPress_Data
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GWG pwcc: Social IDs?
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aaronpk gRegor`: ?
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gRegor` Don't mind me.
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aaronpk ha k
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pwcc As in the ID of Twitter, Facebook, etc posts? As opposed to the full urls.
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gRegor` I would stick with URLs.
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kylewm gRegor`: I thought it was funny
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aaronpk oh lol
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@garethjordan .@HurdyIV :-( Read this & pass it on, it's food for thought on escaping silos &taking control of your work http://indiewebcamp.com/why #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/567468066851028993)
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kylewm aaronpk: might want to do <img.+? so it doesn't match more than necessary?
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aaronpk good call
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aaronpk [^>]+ actually
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kylewm yeah that
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kylewm is better
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pwcc Images uploaded to a WP post are listed as children of that post - https://wordpress.org/support/topic/get-images-attached-to-posts-no-problem-but-need-to-remove-the-featured-image
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GWG pwcc: I prefer full URLs myself
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pwcc re social URLs, cool. If that changes, I'd recommend matching meta data from https://wordpress.org/plugins/keyring-social-importers/
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GWG I have some thoughts on that
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pwcc Keeps potential for POSSE PESOS changes to stay in sync
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GWG pwcc: There are a lot of social plugins
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GWG What you need is a layer.
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tantek layers--
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Loqi layers has -1 karma
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GWG tantek: Something that knows how to speak plugin and spit it out in the right format.
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pwcc heh, yeah, WP almost needs to define a standard liek they do for geo data.
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tantek pwcc - or they could you know, *adopt* a standard instead of inventing a new one :P
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GWG tantek: What is the standard for storing POSSE information?
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tantek GWG, what is rel-syndication?
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Loqi rel-syndication is a way to discoverably link from your original blog post permalinks to syndicated copies of it on other sites, e.g https://indiewebcamp.com/rel-syndication
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pwcc tantek, I'm thinking DB side - similar to their published geodata standard. http://codex.wordpress.org/Geodata
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pwcc front end, they continue to use/recommend microformats.
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tantek pwcc - "DB side" - can that simply re-use microformats vocabulary?
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GWG pwcc: That is what WordPress_Data is about.
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gRegor` !standards
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Loqi http://xkcd.com/927/
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GWG How we store things
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GWG So we can work together on that
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tantek microformats are not just front end, they're storage too
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pwcc y, and if a defacto standard exists across a number of plugins - i am advocating that be recommended.
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GWG pwcc: Regrettably it doesn't. That is why a list of URLs works best
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pwcc That's why h-geo isn't used in the database of indieweb plugin for locations
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KartikPrabhu for my DB i use a text field called "syndication" to store space/newline separated URLs.
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GWG Then no program needs to know.