#indiewebcamp 2015-03-04

2015-03-04 UTC
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dietrich tantek: bret aaronpk yah i think i can do 11th, let me check the office calendar...
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Loqi dietrich: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 22 minutes ago: any of you (aaronpk, dietrich, bret) able to host HWC PDX on the 11th? I'm guessing aaronpk may be out of town. http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-03-11-homebrew-website-club
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bret that would be great dietrich
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tantek dietrich awesome
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bret dietrich: When you confirm, I'll put up a calagator post
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KevinMarks I agrer with Aaron Swartz on this whole thing: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2002Mar/0098.html
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dietrich bret: tantek we're on the calendar. all systems go.
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bret cool thanks dietrich!
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tantek Awesome! bret can you update the wiki page?
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bret sure
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bret.io edited /events/2015-03-11-homebrew-website-club (+352) "/* Where */ MozPDX" (view diff)
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bret.io edited /events/2015-03-11-homebrew-website-club (+12) "/* RSVP */ see everyone there!" (view diff)
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bret.io edited /events/2015-03-11-homebrew-website-club (+79) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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bret.io edited /events/2015-03-11-homebrew-website-club (+9) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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bret dietrich: i rsvpd you on the wiki. is that okay?
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bret should have asked before, sorry
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dietrich bret: of course!
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bret 🙌
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bret.io edited /events/2015-03-11-homebrew-website-club (+21) "/* URLs */" (view diff)
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bret OK PDX is setup
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bret ill spread the word
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tantek woot1
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Loqi giggles
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elf-pavlik aaronpk, does any tool exist that would take on input data in microformats html or microformats json and output form-enceded microformats? i want to add such information to https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_syntax#Serialization
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aaronpk not that I know of, what is the use case?
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elf-pavlik thinking about micropub and sending AS2.0 object serialized as microformats
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aaronpk bret: did you just add this? http://calagator.org/events/1250468003
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club PDX on Tuesday, Mar 3, 6:30pm at Mozilla
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bret yes
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bret shit the date
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aaronpk it's... kinda messy
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aaronpk also the url is wrong
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elf-pavlik as in examples from http://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-core/
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aaronpk also is the ipfs blurb correct? it's not on the wiki
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bret gah, why didnt those things stick?
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elf-pavlik e.g. http://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-core/#fig-an-object-that-is-both-a-place-and-a-gr-location
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bret aaronpk: tjgillies and i have been playing around with ipfs
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bret he has his indiweb site running on it
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aaronpk add it to the wiki!
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bret k
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bret.io edited /events/2015-03-11-homebrew-website-club (+160) "/* Notes */" (view diff)
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tantek elf-pavlik: that's "use as2" is not a *user* use-case
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tantek better for us to figure out the other direction
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tantek how a receiver of form-encoded microformats could convert to AS2 upon receiving it if it needs that
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tantek elf-pavlik: the examples in as-core are horrible
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tantek I'm working on reviewing them and I would hate to see anyone try to publish or consume them
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elf-pavlik tantek, did you just read them for the first time?
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tantek they are overly complicated or just outright wrong
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tantek elf-pavlik: I thought I did but apparently I missed the abuse of <link> and <meta>
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tantek none of the examples reflect any current practices
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elf-pavlik as you may guess jasnell doesn't use microformats much ...
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tantek it's like they were written out of thin air, completely impractically
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tantek elf-pavlik: I'm shockd because we made much more progress on the wiki page
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elf-pavlik this one? https://www.w3.org/wiki/Activity_Streams/Microformats_Mapping
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@kevinmarks @Shoq we're already working on the indieweb check http://indiewebcamp.com (twitter.com/_/status/572922018879782912)
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Loqi slack/snarfed: elf-pavlik just fyi <https://github.com/snarfed/activitystreams-unofficial> converts between mf2 (json or html) and AS, in case you haven't seen it
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tantek snarfed, which version of AS
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Loqi slack/snarfed: it doesn't convert btw mf2 and micropub (is form encoded) yet, but that would be a great addition!
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Loqi slack/snarfed: tantek: it uses one or two 2.0 features but not many
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Loqi slack/snarfed: so mostly 1.0 I guess
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elf-pavlik snarfed, have you seen https://www.w3.org/wiki/Activity_Streams/Microformats_Mapping ?
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Loqi slack/snarfed: elf-pavlik: nope
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Loqi slack/snarfed: added to my queue
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elf-pavlik tantek, maybe worth adding to that wiki page https://github.com/snarfed/activitystreams-unofficial/blob/master/microformats2.py#L97
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elf-pavlik also can't find info about u-uid http://microformats.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=u-uid
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bret aaronpk: thanks for catching those errors, at work and got distracted I think
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elf-pavlik got it http://microformats.org/wiki/uid
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tylergillies.club edited /events/2015-03-11-homebrew-website-club (+16) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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aaronpk bret: cool. you already got people in #pdxtech excited about the meetup tomorrow ;)
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elf-pavlik tantek, u-uid *always* has URL? http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2#microformats2_design
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elf-pavlik i also wonder how it differes from u-url
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tantek the same way canonical does
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elf-pavlik u-url - entry permalink URL
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elf-pavlik u-uid - unique entry ID
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tantek u-url may be used for multiple permalinks
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tantek e.g. shortlink version
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elf-pavlik what is canonical?
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Loqi The canonical copy of a piece of content is the “truest” copy https://indiewebcamp.com/canonical
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tantek also rel=canonical
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elf-pavlik ok so it sounds like JSON-LD @id
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elf-pavlik http://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld/#node-identifiers
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tantek u-uid is like @id - well that seems reasonable - hopefully the meaning is similar enough
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tantek in practice all working u-uid on the web have been u-url
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tantek a stronger requirement of "linked" content as it were ;)
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tantek (as opposed to unlinked dead urns)
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elf-pavlik can u-uid 'not be' u-url' ?
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@kevinmarks "@mkramer: Notes on providing alt text for twitter images http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/01/notes-on-providing-alt-text-for-twitter-images/ via @adelevie" trying to fix silo accessibility #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/572927416466710528)
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elf-pavlik i understood u-uid = the canonical u-url
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elf-pavlik and if something has u- it implies HTTP URI - URL
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Loqi slack/snarfed: tantek, elf-pavlik: filed <https://github.com/snarfed/activitystreams-unofficial/issues/27>
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elf-pavlik snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 90 karma
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Loqi slack/snarfed: fwiw the a-u library puts tag uris in u-uid, which are uris but not (afaik) http urls
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Loqi slack/snarfed: I now wish I'd used real urls instead, but I kept the tag uris so that the uids stayed consistent
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elf-pavlik http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2#microformats2_design states
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elf-pavlik 'u-*' for URL properties, e.g. 'u-photo'
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elf-pavlik which scheme those non http: URIs use?
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elf-pavlik afk
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Loqi slack/snarfed: yup. I was converting from AS, and already populating u-url with the permalink, so I put I'd into u-uid
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Loqi slack/snarfed: elf-pavlik: tag uris, like I mentioned: P <http://taguri.org>
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@Shoq RT @kevinmarks: @Shoq we're already working on the indieweb check http://indiewebcamp.com (twitter.com/_/status/572929719441731584)
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Loqi slack/snarfed: er, "I put id into u-uid"
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Loqi [bridgy] Shoq retweeted a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://twitter.com/Shoq/status/572929719441731584)
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elf-pavlik tantek, i struggle with interpreting tag: URI as URL :|
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elf-pavlik better just goes to sleep... 2:40AM here @|@
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tantek where is tag: URI? modern spec usage is URL.
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tantek e.g. http://url.spec.whatwg.org/
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Loqi slack/snarfed: elf-pavlik, tantek: my fault. tag uris aren't URLs. I incorrectly used them in mf2 u-uid. ignore me
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elf-pavlik thx
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Loqi slack/snarfed: I was just explaining the existing code
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elf-pavlik snarfed, no worries i just try to clarify u-uid
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elf-pavlik local + relative scheme in https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#urls
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elf-pavlik snarfed, does brid.gy keep cache of publicly shared microformats ?
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elf-pavlik i would find it interesting to query it with something like http://client.linkeddatafragments.org/ :D
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elf-pavlik aaronpk, tantek imagine querying public indieweb posts and microformats knowledge graph with something like above ^
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elf-pavlik aaronpk, snarfed try pick example query "Events that took place in the Trentino region" ping rhiaro
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elf-pavlik talking about (IndieWeb ;) events using schema.org ... http://youtu.be/XXw8g-FbemI
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elf-pavlik brid.gy could harvest data for such knowledge graph with query interface
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elf-pavlik http://techcrunch.com/2013/01/15/facebook-announces-its-third-pillar-graph-search/
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@psyartpsychill PbMorlen: Check out my new book page at Amazon @ http://target.georiot.com/badlink.html?badlink=http://redirect.booklinker.net:51001/Proxy.ashx Book IV Ready to go!! Ebook soon. #Fantasy #Visionary #IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/572941349873459200)
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elf-pavlik gnight o/
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snarfed elf-pavlik: bridgy stores a limited amount of as/mf2 data for all silo activities and responses it sees. doesn't include location.
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snarfed it would take a little work to munge it into a format that's easily queryable like you describe, but only a little. happy to help if you want to try that!
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snarfed elf-pavlik: you might also be interested in https://github.com/bear/indie-stats (described in https://snarfed.org/indie-stats )
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elf-pavlik snarfed++ thx!
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Loqi snarfed has 91 karma
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elf-pavlik let's talk about querying indieweb public data once rhiaro wakes up :)
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elf-pavlik gnight o/
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kylewm i feel like it would be more interesting to query a corpus of indieweb sites than a corpus of silo responses
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KevinMarks_ Doesn't that come along with building a reader, kylewm ?
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KevinMarks_ It was a nice part of
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kylewm yeah that's kind of what i was getting at :) I was thinking I should start storing raw mf2 data in my reader
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KevinMarks_ s/of/of shrewdness /
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Loqi KevinMarks_ meant to say: It was a nice part of shrewdness 
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kylewm ah but you can't query shrewdness with SPARQL
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Loqi [bridgy] Patricia Thom liked a post http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Live (https://www.facebook.com/11500459/posts/10101657765167226)
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Loqi [bridgy] Kyle Mahan liked a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://www.facebook.com/14305603/posts/10101172174205434)
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GWG aaronpk: Pfefferle got around to updating Semantic Linkbacks on the repository. That function I use is now stable.
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kylewm soliciting clever ideas, i want to deduplicate originals and syndicated copies in my feed reader... i started looking for u-syndication on the originals but it turns out most people (incl me) don't publish those in the h-feed
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kylewm i don't really want to fetch every permalink every time
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kylewm /original-post-discovery woudl work for a subset of the tweets but none of the instagram photos
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Loqi slack/pwcc: kylewm: if you're happy with rough, can you standardise whitespace, remove formatting and generate a hash?
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Loqi slack/pwcc: Or not, now I write it it doesn't look as easy as I first thought
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kylewm hmm interesting idea pwcc. just a substring match would work pretty well for a lot of tweets
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kylewm photos is still a tough case, but i guess lots of photos have a caption
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kylewm substring match if you remove trailing links, perma-citations and ellipses
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kylewm I could just campaign for people to put their syndication links in the h-feed :)
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Loqi slack/pwcc: Y, that's the sort of thing I am thinking.
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Loqi slack/pwcc: Nah, RSS will never take off.
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tantek kylewm: that's interesting about the lack of syndication links in people's h-feed
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tantek one approach is to ask the UI question - is there a good reason to put syndication links on the visible h-feed? (there may be)
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tantek I was certainly considering it - as part of including webaction buttons on posts in my h-feed
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tantek that may be a way to approach campaigning for people to put their syndication links in the h-feed - that is, give them a good UX reason to do so
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kylewm i think there's a very strong argument for putting webactions in the feed,
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kylewm harder to justify syndication links
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tantek kylewm: right - the webactions in the feed is what I discovered was important during IWC UK 2014
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tantek in practice for me the syndication links are not much different than the webactions buttons
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tantek because the webactions fallbacks include links to the syndicated copies
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KevinMarks_ Sounds like the problem we had with rel-tag and people putting tags "under the post"
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tantek and I for example expose Twitter replies' syndication links as "View Conversation on Twitter"
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tantek KevinMarks: not quite - that was a markup problem, this is UX incentive problem
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KevinMarks_ Well, similar - the Syndication links aren't seen as part of the post.
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Loqi slack/pwcc: Is something like this possible &lt;indieweb:sydication&gt;twitter.com/etc/&lt;/indieweb:sydication&gt;
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GWG I'm working on Syndication Links right now, coincidentally.
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Loqi slack/pwcc: Better than providing as links as it lets the client do what it's good as.
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GWG I looked up and saw this chat.
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Loqi slack/pwcc: s/sydication/syndication
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kylewm pwcc: you could just put empty/invisible <a> links but that's kind of a last resort
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kylewm what is invisible metadata?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "invisible metadata" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=invisible+metadata&summary=prompted+by+kylewm+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-03%2Fline%2F1425448803395
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tantek ugh
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kylewm invisible metadata is /antipatterns#invisible_metadata
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loqi.me created /invisible_metadata (+44) "prompted by kylewm https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-03/line/1425448803395 and dfn added by kylewm" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek Loqi can't see it - it's invisible :)
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kylewm :)
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colintedford !tell aaronpk In the logs, the second of the angle brackets around any url posted from slack is getting included in the href (example: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-03/line/1425431665764).
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (+248) "/* Note names */ Method seems good after a couple months." (view diff)
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maymay.net edited /WordPress_Plugins (+255) "/* POSSE Plugins */ Add another couple WordPress plugins that have POSSE-friendly features." (view diff)
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maymay.net edited /WordPress_Plugins (-1) "/* POSSE Plugins */ Fix broken link." (view diff)
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cweiske gitorious was bought by gitlab, and gitorious.org will shut down end of may
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cweiske https://about.gitlab.com/2015/03/03/gitlab-acquires-gitorious/
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cweiske oh my
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elf-pavlik kylewm, what did you mean by "i feel like it would be more interesting to query a corpus of indieweb sites than a corpus of silo responses" ?
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snarfed elf-pavlik: bridgy is a corpus of silo responses :P
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elf-pavlik oh, got it :)
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elf-pavlik one could crow more data starting from this
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elf-pavlik and putting it in an index/cache can offer really fast queries
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elf-pavlik s/crawl/crow/
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snarfed for silo data, their own search services are already way better and more complete than we could provide
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snarfed and kylewm is right, for indie sites, woodwind or indie-stats are probably better to start from
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elf-pavlik have you seen http://the-federation.info/ ?
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snarfed nope
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nischenwerk.de edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (+276) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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nischenwerk.de edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (+28) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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wwelves.org perpetual-tripper edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (+343) "/* Participants */ + elf Pavlik" (view diff)
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@elfpavlik .@michielbdejong @kirilind @slvrbckt @xtof_fr @jaywink @MrZYX @denschub @heluecht see you @indiewebcamp Düsseldorf? https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany/Guest_List (twitter.com/_/status/573043313126838272)
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elf-pavlik michielbdejong, ^
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elf-pavlik jancborchardt, hugoroyd ^
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michielbdejong elf-pavlik: yes! Just got a notification because Loqi mentioned my Twitter handle which is also my irc user :)
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elf-pavlik oh, true :D
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elf-pavlik rhiaro, Düsseldorf this May? :) https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany/Guest_List
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michielbdejong elf-pavlik: maybe I will! Haven't planned that far ahead yet, but would be nice
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elf-pavlik michielbdejong++
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Loqi michielbdejong has 7 karma
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michielbdejong Just decided this morning that I will move to Beograd on Monday
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elf-pavlik agile!
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elf-pavlik how it goes with indiehosters?
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elf-pavlik scor, hi o/ do you know by any chance if people use microformats in drupal?
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scor elf-pavlik: no, not that I know of
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elf-pavlik and with RDFa / Microdata, do you know which one people use more out in the wild?
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scor on drupal sites or in general?
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elf-pavlik in drupal sites
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scor RDFa since most of it is baked in
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elf-pavlik scor++
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Loqi scor has 1 karma
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elf-pavlik i would like to help Edgeryders with enabling RDFa starting with their profile pages https://edgeryders.eu/en/users/pavlik-elf
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@elfpavlik @heluecht #IndieWeb people also participate in @SocialWebWG, @aaronpk will come there! did you know http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub @MrZYX @slvrbckt (twitter.com/_/status/573050705835114496)
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elf-pavlik scor, you may like to check out https://indiecert.net/welcome
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elf-pavlik remembers https://vimeo.com/56888383 Simplified Sign On with WebID and Drupal
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scor cool
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@elfpavlik .@fkooman check out an old video by @scorlosquet https://vimeo.com/56888383 & #IndieWeb @bblfish @therealdeiu see https://indiecert.net/welcome (twitter.com/_/status/573053398418907137)
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elf-pavlik aaronpk ^ https://indiecert.net/welcome
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hugoroyd michielbdejong: where is beograd?
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elf-pavlik fkooman, http://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth
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michielbdejong hugoroyd: it's in Serbia, a little bit east from Italy
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michielbdejong i can recommend Budapest to everyone by the way, really sad to be leaving here after one month
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elf-pavlik scor, thanks again for this suggestion http://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth#RDFa
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elf-pavlik will this also work with https://developers.google.com/structured-data/customize/social-profiles
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elf-pavlik fkooman, https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany/Guest_List
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cweiske fkooman, cool idea that indiecert
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cweiske so I can use it as my indieauth server? as <link rel="authorization_endpoint"...>?
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fkooman cweiske: it works a bit different, you publish your cert fingerprint on your home page
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cweiske I thought it would match https://indiewebcamp.com/distributed-indieauth
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fkooman cweiske: check out the screencasts on https://www.tuxed.net/fkooman/blog/indiecert.html or try it on https://indiecert.net
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fkooman cweiske: but that should be easy to implement...
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cweiske does indiecert implement the indieauth protocol?
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fkooman cweiske: it is almost the same, but has some changes
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fkooman cweiske: like returning json on the verify step, not requiring client_id on the auth request
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cweiske ah, ok
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fkooman cweiske: https://indiecert.net/rp
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cweiske I wouldn't like to implement an indiecert-specific protocol but rather rely on the indieauth protocol
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fkooman cweiske: i guess I could sniff the 'Accept' header on verify requests to return this weird uriencoded post body on verify requests :)
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cweiske oh, it isn't really weird
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cweiske standard www-form-urlencode
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fkooman ah, i thought it was mostly used for POST requests, not for responses
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fkooman OAuth also uses JSON responses
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fkooman cweiske: also, i use a seperate endpoint for the verify step
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fkooman as a post on the auth endpoint is used for the user to confirm the authentication
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elf-pavlik fkooman, http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#Form-encoded_Microformats_Representation
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marcthiele.com edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (+0) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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@btconf Don't forget to add yourself to the Guest List if you attend the #IndieWebCamp Germany during #btconf. https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany/Guest_List (twitter.com/_/status/573078574435045376)
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@elfpavlik RT @btconf: Don't forget to add yourself to the Guest List if you attend the #IndieWebCamp Germany during #btconf. https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany/Guest_List (twitter.com/_/status/573079434858762240)
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elf-pavlik adding rel="me" href="irc://irc.freenode.net/elf-pavlik,isnick"
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silverbucket.net edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (+408) "/* Participants */ added Nick Jennings" (view diff)
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GWG Morning.
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mapkyca Morning :)
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GWG Good morning mapkyca
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david.shanske.com edited /WordPress_Data (+18) "/* Syndication */" (view diff)
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cweiske fkooman, how do I get the fingerprint for an already installed client certificate?
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cweiske chromium shows the sha1 and sha256 fingerprints in the settings
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cweiske but not in the format you expect
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cweiske http://fotos.cweiske.de/screenshots/2015-03-04%20chromium%20fingerprint.png
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cweiske it'd be cool if there was a tool that simply took the copied text
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cweiske 4B 51 23 4F 8F E1 B7 D0 89 F5 7E 9B F4 EF CE 23
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cweiske D3 00 83 1A 6B A4 19 74 E6 36 44 4E 51 A1 33 50
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cweiske and converted it to that di URL scheme
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elf-pavlik cweiske, fkooman went out somewhere... he'll see highlight once back
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@rektide .@mattblaze "how physically secure is your server mrs clinton?" "locked in my broomcloset in my guarded estate" #ManorCompute++ #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/573129496875945985)
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GWG pfefferle: Thank you for the update
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pfefferle GWG your welcome… I currently work on i18n
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GWG pfefferle: Oh?
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pfefferle GWG for the semantic linkbacks text snippets
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GWG I thought you had that.
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GWG No pot file?
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GWG looks
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pfefferle GWG not yet it is a bit tricky with the german articles (der, die, das) for the post-types
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GWG Okay.
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GWG pfefferle: Hope it works out. No one understands my attempts to use what little German I know
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pfefferle GWG me too! ;)
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GWG pfefferle: Your English is very good. Only an occasional grammar issue
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GWG I know you have said otherwise
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pfefferle GWG thanks :)
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pfefferle GWG I give my best!
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GWG In other news, my Syndication Links plugin has got a contributor.
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GWG I consider any interest in anything I wrote to indicate that I am doing something right
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@mbauwens 2015/Germany - IndieWebCamp https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany (twitter.com/_/status/573142876768620545)
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kylewm.com edited /2014/SF (+3) "/* Questions for Organizers */ add millisecond precision to irc permalink "what are we going to do?"" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks "@tommchenry: HTML http://t.co/Q5LIKzbluz" #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/573149724808630273)
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@fakebaldur RT @kevinmarks: "@tommchenry: HTML http://t.co/Q5LIKzbluz" #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/573149881579282433)
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ben_thatmustbeme morning all
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elf-pavlik good afternoon :)
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (+243) "rhiaro rsvp" (view diff)
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elf-pavlik rhiaro++
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Loqi rhiaro has 14 karma
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fkooman ah, cweiske just left :(
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@sirmlivesey @sirmlivesey Not that the internet is compatible with sovereignty at all. More work needs to be done on identity and privacy. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/573166378880004096)
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
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aaronpk good morning!
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Loqi aaronpk: colintedford left you a message 10 hours, 53 minutes ago: In the logs, the second of the angle brackets around any url posted from slack is getting included in the href (example: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-03/line/1425431665764).
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@sirmlivesey Testing webmentions. https://twitter.com/sirmlivesey/status/573167578715176960/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/573167578715176960)
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aaronpk indiecert looks neat!
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aaronpk that's an ineteresting problem with URL autolinnking
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snarfed what is indiecert
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aaronpk tantek: does your function handle that appropriately?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "indiecert" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=indiecert&summary=prompted+by+snarfed+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-04%2Fline%2F1425488950390
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aaronpk heh also this one is linked wrong http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-04/line/1425488625646
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fkooman aaronpk: thanks! :)
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kylewm cassis does auto_link("this is a <https://test.com/1234> of the autolinker"); => "this is a <<a class="auto-link" href="https://test.com/1234">https://test.com/1234</a>> of the autolinker"
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kylewm but auto_link("this is a &lt;https://test.com/1234&gt; of the autolinker"); => "this is a &lt;https://test.com/1234&gt; of the autolinker"
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kylewm and it definitely handles parens correctly, I just got done fixing a really annoying bug with that in bridgy and used cassis as a reference
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aaronpk what about (things like http://this.com)
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kylewm see previous message
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aaronpk i should see if i can just use cassis for the logs
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kylewm +1
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kylewm it's good. i would use it if i was in php or js
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aaronpk i should write a ruby version of it and release just the auto_link function as a gem
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kylewm https://github.com/kylewm/cassis-autolink-py
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kylewm :)
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kylewm great minds and all that
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tantek kylewm: whoa awesome!
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tantek hey thanks for answering the question
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tantek yes the trailing paren auto-linking case was a pet peeve of mine (bug in Twitter auto-linking) so I fixed it :)
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tantek and yes it works (to include the paren) if there is an open paren in the URL (e.g. some wikipedia URLs)
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kylewm oh that's interesting and kinda weird -- i'm getting PuSH updates from benwerd now. the hub.topic for his h-feed is "http://werd.io/content/all/?_t=rss"
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tantek aaronpk, kylewm, apparently I wrote that code > 5 years ago! http://tantek.com/2010/047/t1/links-cassis-auto_link-idempotent-apache-licensed
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@fabian_kern RT @kevinmarks: "@tommchenry: HTML http://t.co/Q5LIKzbluz" #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/573180271077548032)
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gRegor` What us hub.topic?
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Loqi gRegor`: snarfed left you a message on 3/3 at 10:13am: you've seen https://snarfed.org/easy-indieweb-interactions-on-android ? doesn't solve the 'Check out X's tweet' thing specifically, but it does provide for indie reply/like/repost generally
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gRegor` What IS hub.topic?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "hub.topic" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=hub.topic&summary=prompted+by+gRegor%60+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-04%2Fline%2F1425491930160
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gRegor` snarfed: Ooh, Bookmarklet Free looks cool. I will try that out.
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gRegor` Is this captured on the wiki anywhere?
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tantek what is cassis?
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Loqi CASSIS is an acronym for Client And Server Scripting Implementation Subset https://indiewebcamp.com/CASSIS
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tantek hmm, a bit jargony
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tantek.com edited /CASSIS (+8) "update dfn to have more than just abbr expansion" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /hub.topic (+26) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /CASSIS (+161) "add Ports / auto_link / Python" (view diff)
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@danyork POSSE, from http://indiewebcamp.com/ RT @mannyju: Publish on Own Site, Syndicate later Elsewhere -@danyork #15NTCnetadvocacy #NTC (twitter.com/_/status/573184538987253761)
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@kevinmarks @charlesv @jkottke see http://www.kevinmarks.com/fragmentions.html and http://indiewebcamp.com/fragmention (twitter.com/_/status/573193554232680448)
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KevinMarks_ https://twitter.com/sarahjeong/status/573199637089157120
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@sarahjeong is there a way for me to update a wordpress page from command line (twitter.com/_/status/573199637089157120)
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KevinMarks_ Ok outreach squad, ideas?
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aaronpk lol https://twitter.com/jg_networks/status/573199888651059200
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@jg_networks @sarahjeong wordpress should probably be updated with rm -r (twitter.com/_/status/573199888651059200)
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GWG KevinMarks, wp-cli
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GWG KevinMarks_: We're not a squad.
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GWG aaronpk: Someone did client certificates for indieauth?
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KevinMarks she wants to mung a static page
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kylewm what is mung?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "mung" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=mung&summary=prompted+by+kylewm+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-04%2Fline%2F1425497080635
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GWG KevinMarks, wp-cli is a cli interface to Wordpress. Not a core product
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KevinMarks mung is a verb meaning to transform with code. See the Mac OS Munger function.
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loqi.me created /mung (+105) "prompted by kylewm https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-04/line/1425497080635 and dfn added by KevinMarks" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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kylewm KevinMarks++
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Loqi KevinMarks has 89 karma
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KevinMarks also se http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/M/mung.html
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KevinMarks http://www.mactech.com/articles/mactech/Vol.12/12.05/Handles2/index.html#Munger%20is
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kylewm.com edited /mung (+48) "add jargon file reference" (view diff)
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gRegor` What is wp-cli?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "wp-cli" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=wp-cli&summary=prompted+by+gRegor%60+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-04%2Fline%2F1425497410013
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gRegor` wp-cli is http://wp-cli.org/
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loqi.me created /wp-cli (+55) "prompted by gRegor` https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-04/line/1425497410013 and dfn added by gRegor`" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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kylewm wp-cli is a set of commandline tools for managing [[WordPress]] installations.
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kylewm doh
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gRegor` 8)
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gRegor` Wiki edit races (as a service)
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Jeena how would you mark up a "Now playing track ..." thingy with microformats?
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gRegor` I think mowens (? forget exact username) has examples of that.
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gRegor` http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Mowens.com
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gRegor` and https://mowens.com/
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gRegor` mko in IRC.
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Jeena on his/her website they have it as a h-entry and fa-music with p-track p-album and p-artist
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GWG Jeena: I support a p-listen
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gRegor` Jeena: I think the album and track attributes are last.fm UIDs. He's PESOS from last.fm iirc
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Jeena yeah thats what I want to do too
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gRegor` I think he has code on Github for that, in Node.
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Jeena I already have implemented the fetching, now I just want to mark it up in some meaningfull way
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Jeena GWG is p-listen something official?
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gRegor` What is listen?
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Loqi A scrobble (AKA a listen) is a passive type of post used to publish a song (music or audio track) that you have listened to https://indiewebcamp.com/listen
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gRegor` Musicbrainz IDs, not Last.fm
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gRegor` What is Musicbrainz?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Musicbrainz" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Musicbrainz&summary=prompted+by+gRegor%60+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-04%2Fline%2F1425498261463
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gRegor` Musicbrainz is https://musicbrainz.org/
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loqi.me created /Musicbrainz (+66) "prompted by gRegor` https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-04/line/1425498261463 and dfn added by gRegor`" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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GWG Jeena, how does something become official if not usage?
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gRegor` Jeena GWG It's pretty early on and experimental. Try it and iterate, I say.
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Jeena I don't know, if it is at least described in the microformats.org wiki?
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gRegor` GWG: Do you have any p-lisens published? If so you should add yourself to /listen#IndieWeb_Examples
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Jeena and hopefully some day implemented in the microformats parsers
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aaronpk microformats parsers don't need to know about property names
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gRegor` Jeena: The parsers will handle it already based on the prefix p-, u-, h-, etc.
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aaronpk consumers like readers do
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Jeena ah I see
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@t @todrobbins @andyet big fan of talky.io, using it @indiewebcamp @W3C Social Web mtgs. Telecons still need POTS-compat. (ttk.me t4_y2) (twitter.com/_/status/573208452098465792)
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GWG gRegor`: Will do when next home. But acegiak uses it too
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gRegor` acegiak and mko are listed
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Jeena or is it perhaps a h-product?
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gRegor` I don't think so. It's not a product you're listing for sale.
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gRegor` Which I think is the common use-case for h-product
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KevinMarks_ Hillary Clinton as indieweb pioneer? https://medium.com/@cjoh/hillary-s-email-858ccfc48277
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KevinMarks that link looked weird in the logs
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KevinMarks aaronpk: di your regex get confused? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-04/line/1425499710938
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KevinMarks it doesn't like medium URLs with @'s in
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wwelves.org perpetual-tripper created /indiecert (+478) "basic info about IndieCert" (view diff)
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elf-pavlik fkooman, ^
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elf-pavlik what is indiecert?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/indiecert
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elf-pavlik what is indiehosters?
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Loqi IndieHosters is a new network of independent hosters who offer CMS Software as a Service https://indiewebcamp.com/IndieHosters
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cweiske fkooman, do you support cacert.org?
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wwelves.org perpetual-tripper edited /indiecert (-13) "made Loqi friendly" (view diff)
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elf-pavlik what is indiecert?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/indiecert
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fkooman cweiske: i could, but right now the indiecert.net instance only accepts certs signed by indiecert.net CA, not from other CAs, but it is possible to disable the check and allow for all certs..
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gRegor` elf-pavlik: A <dfn> around "Indiecert" in the page will make Loqi return the first sentence.
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Loqi grins profusely
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cweiske I meant the homepage
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cweiske is it ok if my homepage's ssl cert is from cacert.org, even if it's not trusted by most browsers?
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fkooman cweiske: oh no, not right now...
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cweiske ok
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fkooman cweiske: i can add the CAcert CA as trusted CA
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elf-pavlik fkooman++
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Loqi fkooman has 1 karma
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wwelves.org perpetual-tripper edited /indiecert (+17) "added <dfn>" (view diff)
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elf-pavlik what is indiecert?
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Loqi IndieCert is a service to authenticate to services around the web without using usernames and passwords https://indiewebcamp.com/indiecert
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elf-pavlik gRegor++ thx!
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Loqi gRegor has 9 karma
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fkooman cweiske: i guess CAcert is only relevant as long as Let's encrypt is not live, or do you expect use of CAcert after that?
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cweiske fkooman, could you guide me through the certificate URL generation?
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cweiske fkooman, I'll probably switch then
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fkooman cweiske: certificate url generation?
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cweiske even if I like cacert.org more from a philosophical standpoint
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cweiske <link rel="me" href="ni://indiecert.net/sha-256;WXXyBZDo1pZYiLbrCNGFtSdSamqEvSJJBRzpx-MNIUA?ct=application/x-x509-user-cert">
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cweiske this
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cweiske what I wrote in github issue #3
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Jeena neat, I got it implemented: "Jeena is playing right now: ..." https://jeena.net/
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cweiske https://github.com/fkooman/indiecert/issues/3
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Jeena the only problem is that the artwork shown comes from a http server and my website is https
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fkooman cweiske: sorry I didn't see that, i wasn't subscribed to my own project, weird GH :(
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cweiske :)
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Jeena ah I should cache it anyway
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fkooman cweiske: i'll look at it tomorrow and answer your created issues :)
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cweiske thanks
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cweiske Internal Server Error
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cweiske [curl] (#60) See http://curl.haxx.se/libcurl/c/libcurl-errors.html for an explanation of cURL errors [url] https://cweiske.de/
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cweiske when I try to use a client cert generated by indiecert
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cweiske but that's probably the cacert.org issue
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fkooman cweiske: yup it is
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fkooman 60 = Peer certificate cannot be authenticated with known CA certificates.
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fkooman super user friendly error handling :/
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cweiske now I also understand why indiecert told me I have no certificate - I had my own client cert, but it was not from comodo/your CA
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fkooman cweiske: yeah, it will only show the popup if you have one that is signed by indiecert ca
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fkooman cweiske: it is an apache config option so your browser only needs to show the supported certificates
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cweiske yep, I know
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fkooman and not all 200 that you may have installed
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cweiske I wrote an ssl client cert howto 2 years ago; http://cweiske.de/tagebuch/ssl-client-certificates.htm
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fkooman cweiske++
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Loqi cweiske has 17 karma
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cweiske.de edited /indiecert (+202) (view diff)
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tantek good afternoon #Indiewebcamp!
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tantek hey aaronpk - since you're the only attending the Social Web WG who can post indie events - could you post one on your site for https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-03-17 and a FB POSSE copy?
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tantek nothing demonstrates social web expertise like actually adding to the social web using your own website :)
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ben_thatmustbeme good afternoon tantek
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aaronpk It's there already! https://aaronparecki.com/events/2015/03/17/1/socialwg-2015
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tantek boom!
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ben_thatmustbeme what is linkslapping?
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tantek whoa it's a permalink IN THE FUTURE
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "linkslapping" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=linkslapping&summary=prompted+by+ben_thatmustbeme+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-04%2Fline%2F1425505580971
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tantek :)
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tantek see now ben_thatmustbeme I'm going to go out on a limb and say IRC cultural terms like "linkslapping" and phrases like "slap x with a trout" etc. are things that have made IRC less than friendly to new folks, general population, and anything other than deep old nerd culture.
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tantek linkslapping--
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Loqi linkslapping has 0 karma
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tylergillies.club edited /User:Tjgillies (-166) (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme fair enough, though i had not heard the term 'linkslapping' until recently on the backchannel
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ben_thatmustbeme finished sorting the user stories
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tantek hahaha wtf is classname my-funky-padding ?
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Loqi rofl
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tantek found in https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-03-17
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ben_thatmustbeme its descriptive
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ben_thatmustbeme https://aaronparecki.com/events/2015/03/17/1/socialwg-2015 :D
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tantek nice
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ben_thatmustbeme i seem to have some issue with my markup on there though
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aaronpk yeah I set my permalinks to the event date, and I don't actually have a separate "publish" date for posts, which is going to be a problem with readers
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aaronpk so i'm gonna have to fix that
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tantek aaronpk: I'm actually storing events (in my partially implemented code) in my storage *on* the date they occur
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tantek so my events will *also* have such a permalink
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rhiaro I need to sort out event dates vs publish dates too
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tantek the *act* of "creating" it will simply be a "reply" to the event
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aaronpk yeah i like having hte permalink be the date of the event
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tantek like the first comment on the event
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aaronpk but I need to set the dt-published to the create date so that readers sort it properly
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tantek which is what FB does
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rhiaro I have a 'todo' list of posts on my sites, which includes future events, and at the moment everything is listed under publish date
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rhiaro which is annoying
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tantek aaronpk - a-ha! a different meaning for dt-published vs. dt-start!
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tantek I like it
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tantek it totally makes sense
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tantek aaronpk - can you post a FB POSSE copy of your event https://aaronparecki.com/events/2015/03/17/1/socialwg-2015
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ben_thatmustbeme my permalinks are actually something i need to sort out. if I post after 7pm Easter, the permalink shows the next day
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rhiaro oh yeah, there's dt-start
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ben_thatmustbeme somehow i got my permalinks generating in UTC
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: I have a similar problem
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tantek since I haven't marked mine up with explicit timezone :/
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ben_thatmustbeme it took me a while to sort the timezones out
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aaronpk ah yes. timezones.
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ben_thatmustbeme especially since you also have to deal with the timezone the server is on
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aaronpk server UTC and explicit timezones for everything <3
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ben_thatmustbeme honestly my biggest issue was just dealing with mysql's interesting characteristic of always storing in UTC
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tantek what is UTC?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "UTC" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=UTC&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-04%2Fline%2F1425506219107
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tantek what is a timezone?
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ben_thatmustbeme what is GMT
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Loqi timezones are a way to create dependencies in your code on legislative bodies in countries you have never heard of[1] https://indiewebcamp.com/timezone
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "GMT" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=GMT&summary=prompted+by+ben_thatmustbeme+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-04%2Fline%2F1425506231835
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tantek that sounds like KevinMarks
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ben_thatmustbeme heh
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aaronpk lol "stub based on kevinmarks dfn" https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=timezone&action=history
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tantek >:D
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snarfed hey tantek!…so i've been curious about something for a while…you can author arbitrary html in a falcon post, right?
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pwcc G'day indiewebcamp
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snarfed so when you ask people to post events, etc., or say only certain people are able to post them…are you able to yourself, and your goal is to keep fostering community by having other people involved in events?
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snarfed no offense intended, sincerely curious
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tantek snarfed: in a Falcon article or comic
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snarfed oh, so falcon doesn't let you change the top-level h-* class manually?
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tantek snarfed, I'm not yet able to post something top level other than an h-entry
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snarfed got it
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snarfed might be a good/easy itch to add
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snarfed esp since it'd let you author events
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tantek yes I can *embed* an event in an article
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tantek snarfed - it is, and like 1/4 implemented ;?
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tantek :/
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snarfed heh got it
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snarfed and good point, embedding is probably good enough for e.g. events
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tantek not for me !
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snarfed that's what i've done when i've posted them and no one's complained (and rsvps have worked etc)
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tantek I'm expecting that anything I post people will view source and assume that must be the way to do it
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tantek (at least a few people)
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tantek so I don't want to lead anyone astray
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snarfed understood. always more than one factor, though, and it's sad if that one has kept you from posting events for years
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tantek snarfed, here's where I'm keeping track of all the implementation design details for Falcon events: https://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#event_posts
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snarfed ok!
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tantek snarfed, there are *many* things that I haven't implemented on my site for years ;)
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snarfed sure, of course. my point isn't to implement more, it's maybe to do more manually
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snarfed (for the time being)
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snarfed but no matter. your site, your call, of course
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tantek sure - comics posts are manual for example (like any "article" but with particular structure of object > heading etc.
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tantek does A LOT manually ;)
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snarfed great!
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snarfed manual events might free you from depending on others, at least in the rare cases when no one's around
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snarfed but anyway
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tantek sure, I don't mind RSVPing to others' events though :)
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tantek especially pretty cool in the different ways that aaronpk, benwerd, kylewm all handle receiving RSVPs and invitations
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tantek quite a diverse amount of interesting design going on
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tantek snarfed - it's definitely a pretty big itch - my home page has a manually updated (more like manually outdated) "next 3 events" box
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tantek which I could automate if I had events posts
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tantek snarfed, the other thought I've had, as I keep asking for others to post events, is almost a counter to your point about "free you from depending on others"
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tantek I feel like there's an aspect of community that makes it not only *ok* to depend on others but even a good thing, as you typically end up depending on each other for *different* things, which I think strengthens the community overall.
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tantek Just a thought.
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snarfed yup. hence the "your goal is to keep fostering community" part of my initial msg
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snarfed understood
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tantek especially when others are already doing a great job
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tantek depending on someone is a form of recognition / props / compliment
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KevinMarks talking of design, this was interesting: https://medium.com/ios-os-x-development/oneshot-a-one-week-design-case-study-e0512bc02343
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tantek I realize such "depending" appears counter to the implied core "indepedence" value of INDIEwebcamp, yet I think there's a difference between independents depending on each other, as peers, and individuals depending on orgs.
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snarfed right, that context for "indie" is pretty clear
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tantek of course there are those that would rather do / pursue everything independently, and that's fine too
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tantek ok I'm pretty pleased with http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-03-17
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tantek checks to see if there's a FB POSSE copy yet
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tantek aaronpk, got a moment post a FB POSSE copy of https://aaronparecki.com/events/2015/03/17/1/socialwg-2015 ?
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tantek even just a skeleton with the same info as your post - happy to help expand it if you co-admin me
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tantek but I think you need to post it in order for the Bridgy backfeed to your indie event to work
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tantek will make an excellent demonstration for all the non-implementers ;)
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aaronpk will do
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tantek thanks!
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rhiaro aaronpk I just sent my post I already had about socialwg f2f as reply to yours using your webmention form, but realised I don't link to your post in mine, as I made it a while ago
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rhiaro Do you automatically check for that, or can you accept responses from posts that don't link?
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rhiaro Maybe I should just add a link
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aaronpk if there's no link then it just looks like a spam webmention
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aaronpk i see the failure in my logs
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rhiaro currently my publishing process is a massive hassle though, so I don't have time to update the post right now..
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/webmention/FtHaV_jc
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tantek rhiaro: if there's no in-reply-to link, then it's not a reply ;)
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tantek a reply requires linked content ;)
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rhiaro yes, I know, I realised after I hit send
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tantek wonders how many linked data jokes he can get in any given social web discussion ;)
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rhiaro Maybe events are a use case for not needing this...?
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tantek rhiaro: nonsense! everything must have a URL.
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rhiaro Well, I made my post first, but it still works as an rsvp if someone else makes an official event post afterwards
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tantek it doesn't because it is undefined what you are RSVPing *to*
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tantek did you create a local URL for the event yourself?
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rhiaro yeah, alright
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tantek since you posted first?
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rhiaro yes, http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/02/social-web-f2f
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rhiaro but I'm not actually accepting webmentions yet, so it was no good me advertising it to people..
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tantek rhiaro: looks like a post (article), not an event: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/02/social-web-f2f
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rhiaro also it's not an event, just a post
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tantek jinx
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rhiaro :p
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rhiaro my events stuff needs tidying up
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tantek it's a great start
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rhiaro that's next on my list
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tantek my events stuff needs more implementing
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tantek so you're way ahead ;)
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rhiaro events is my biggest itch currently
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tantek rhiaro: it's my biggest itch, but also involves a lot to implemet, hence it's been an incremental thing
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rhiaro I also really need to get on webmentions
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tantek in case it helps, I try to iterate on my events implementation design thinking in public here: https://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#event_posts
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rhiaro I'm hoping to be sending and receiving before next IWC, but I'm not sure when I'll have time..
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tantek you can always manually send webmentions
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tantek receving / showing is much harder (without a js embed)
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tantek hence why that's the next thing after my event posts in my to implement list
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tantek now that I've pasted that URL twice, time to wiki link
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rhiaro I'm not expecting to host events pages myself for people to reply to in general. I'm going to work with jarofgreen to get webmentions in opentechcalendar, then do all my events through that, and rsvp from my site
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rhiaro since most events, at least ones I attend in scotland, are on there, and if they're not I can add them
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acegiak GWG: So the new version of post-kinds has the new structure and a migration function?
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KevinMarks js embed is a good stopgap
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rhiaro although longer term hopefully we can get something working so I can post an event on my site initially, send a wm to opentechcalendar and have it create a public event on there for me or something... but probably jarofgreen needs to implement indieauth and micropub first
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tantek rhiaro: that's more like POSSE your event to opentechcalendar
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tantek the same way that a bunch of us are posting indie events and POSSEing a copy to FB
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tantek we don't actually have a webmention POSSE protocol defined yet!
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rhiaro hm, yeah
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tantek (thought that might be something that could be interesting)
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tantek for an indieweb /friendly aggregator to implement
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aaronpk that's more like micropub
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snarfed aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 725 karma
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tantek aaronpk except you don't need permission
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snarfed two existing precedents for wm-based syndication are indienews and bridgy publish
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aaronpk of course you do. you need a facebook login to create facebook events
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rhiaro yes, you'd still need to post *as* someone
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tantek rhiaro: no - that's implied from the author of the post you're POSSEing
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tantek in fact you wouldn't want to allow someone to "take over" a copy of someone else's event
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tantek (at least not without permission from the original author)
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rhiaro well, you need an account on opentechcal to post
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tantek (vis-a-vis adding an event co-admin)
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tantek rhiaro: you shouldnt! that's the whole point of indieauth
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tantek you shouldn't have to create accounts everywhere you want to post
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tantek do it all with your URL
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tantek what is opentechcalendar?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "opentechcalendar" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=opentechcalendar&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-04%2Fline%2F1425509046415
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rhiaro I was going to say I'm hoping to persuade james to implement indieauth on opentechcal, which is what I meant as a way to post as someone
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aaronpk aggregator sites make sense to not require an account
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aaronpk in fact calagator.org has no account system
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aaronpk it's a publicly editable events calendar
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rhiaro opentechcal has complicated wiki-like version tracking
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aaronpk so does calagator
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rhiaro oh, cool
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aaronpk makes it easy to roll back spam edits
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kylewm i love the idea of a shared calendar that aggregates indie events
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aaronpk that's what I wanna do with indienews
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tantek kylewm: that was the basis of upcoming.org
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rhiaro opentechcal creator is helping me with organising IWC Edinburgh, and he's definitely interested in making it indiewebbie
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tantek and if we can get all this working, we can likely talk Andy Baio into implementing the protocols so that the new Upcoming is indieweb based
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rhiaro maybe we'll even have it ready by IWC Edinburgh
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tantek or at least indieweb /friendly
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tantek.com edited /event (+966) "add IndieWeb Itches with Tantek and Amy" (view diff)
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tantek alright rhiaro I captured your well laid plans from IRC into the wiki ;) http://indiewebcamp.com/event#IndieWeb_Itches
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rhiaro updating my user page with itches is also an itch :p
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kylewm does the new Google Cloud PubSub thing have any bearing on anything indieweb? http://googlecloudplatform.blogspot.com/2015/03/using-Google-Cloud-pubsub-to-Connect-applications-and-data-streams.html
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tantek.com edited /User:Rhiaro.co.uk (+46) "itches stub, link to existing itch documentation" (view diff)
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tantek rhiaro: there you go ;)
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tantek.com edited /User:Rhiaro.co.uk (+113) "meta" (view diff)
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rhiaro haha, thanks
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snarfed kylewm: probably just another plumbing tool, a la amazon sqs
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snarfed not sure what it's built on yet, but i'll know by tonight. i expect it's solid enough
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tantek aaronpk, why do the your and my RSVP / invitations icons here look weird? https://aaronparecki.com/events/2015/03/17/1/socialwg-2015
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aaronpk it's the thing that powers google's push notifications so yeah
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kylewm snarfed: it's orthogonal to PubSubHubbub despite similar names, right?
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aaronpk kylewm: yeah it's just backend plumbing
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snarfed kylewm: aaronpk: yeah. more like sqs, rabbit, celery etc
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aaronpk tantek: oops I must be setting the image height to a square but facebook is providing rectangle icons
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Loqi slack/kevinmarks: Writing is not yet available on mobile devices.
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snarfed pubsub is a generic name for the functionality
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rhiaro a related itch, which I expressed in a socialwg user story, is being able to post photos of an event afterwards and have people who attended authorised to see them, entirely via them having rsvp'd or checked in to the event post
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tantek what is pubsub?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/pubsub
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kylewm aaronpk: I don't think Google Cloud PubSub == Google Cloud Messagaing
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Loqi slack/kevinmarks: That was a quote from <https://medium.com/about/how-do-i-write-5ab1de76e764>
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aaronpk kylewm: oh sorry you're right, "supporting critical applications like Google Cloud Monitoring"
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aaronpk misread that as "messaging" this morning
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tantek what is Google Cloud PubSub?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Google Cloud PubSub" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Google+Cloud+PubSub&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-04%2Fline%2F1425509543567
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kylewm Google Cloud PubSub is a new messaging service, in the vein of Amazon SQS, RabbitMQ, Celery, etc. http://googlecloudplatform.blogspot.com/2015/03/using-Google-Cloud-pubsub-to-Connect-applications-and-data-streams.html
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loqi.me created /Google_Cloud_PubSub (+244) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-04/line/1425509543567 and dfn added by kylewm" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek.com edited /pubsub (+177) "dfn, via snarfed and IRC discussion" (view diff)
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kylewm.com moved /Google_Cloud_PubSub to /Google_Cloud_Pub/Sub
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kylewm hmm, I probably shouldn't have done that
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tantek.com edited /Google_Cloud_Pub/Sub (+56) "linky, see also" (view diff)
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tantek you can always move it back
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tantek they really put a "/" in the name?
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snarfed tantek: that page isn't quite right. the earlier content for realtime notifications of publisher updates is all good, but pubsub isn't really the term for it
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tantek who did the work? the IBM OS/2 team?
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kylewm yup
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kylewm lol
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snarfed …or at least, pubsub is a lower level, more generic term not restricted to push notifs or content publishers/consumers
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snarfed not sure how to help fix
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tantek snarfed: we do have a page on /notifications
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KevinMarks_ So should we ask Rohit to implement PuSH with it?
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snarfed right. i'm saying, pubsub probably isn't the right name for that page, and the dfn should probably be reverted
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tantek also better if generic terms are defined in more user-centric terms first
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tantek and also include plumbing specific meanings
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tantek rather than *only* be plumbing centric
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tantek basically, ask yourself, will / do salespeople use the term? then you need to provide a user-centric definition for it
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kylewm we need some dedupe/cleanup .. on /pubsub and /push-vs-pull
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snarfed i'm not sure how to help. there's no clear single user-centric use case for pubsub-the-plumbing, just like dbs or filesystems.
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tantek has definitely heard sales / marketing people use terms like pubsub
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snarfed it's pure plumbing
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tantek usually there's some point at which users are exposed to it
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tantek e.g. for dbs and filesystems, backups
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snarfed in some cases but not always
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snarfed pubsub is commonly used in data processing that end users don't see/use at all
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tantek even if not *doing* the backups, knowing about them, and knowing about how to restore / revert
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tantek snarfed, and there was a pubsub.com user visible / usable service
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tantek so there is user-centric precdenc
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tantek s/precdenc /precedence
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snarfed sure! sorry, i'm being unclear. there are definitely user visible use cases. it's just that none of them are canonical
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tantek what is Amazon SQS
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Amazon SQS" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Amazon+SQS&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-04%2Fline%2F1425509898798
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tantek what is RabbitMQ
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "RabbitMQ" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=RabbitMQ&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-04%2Fline%2F1425509906924
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snarfed e.g. http://aws.amazon.com/sqs/ is a quintessential pubsub service, and no end user would ever use it
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tantek what is Celery
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Celery" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Celery&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-04%2Fline%2F1425509912719
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snarfed anyway. i'll take a stab at editing.
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kylewm crud, I may be the only indieweb user of Celery rn, does that mean I have to edit that :(
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kylewm Celery is a [[Python]]-based asynchronous work queue.
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snarfed what is plumbing
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loqi.me created /Celery (+80) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-04/line/1425509912719 and dfn added by kylewm" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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Loqi Plumbing in the context of the IndieWeb, refers to all the underlying code, backend setup, protocols, formats that is all merely there to support the design and user experience of a site, the actual user visible and interactive parts https://indiewebcamp.com/plumbing
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tantek what is a work queue?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "work queue" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=work+queue&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-04%2Fline%2F1425510087324
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kylewm 3 minute time limit is not enough to come up with good, jargon-free user-centric definitions of things :)
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aaronpk haha i can increase it
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aaronpk now it's at 10 minutes
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kylewm woohoo
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kylewm aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 726 karma
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tantek what is jargon?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "jargon" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=jargon&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-04%2Fline%2F1425510217637
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snarfed.org edited /pubsub (+354) "half-assed disambiguate" (view diff)
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GWG acegiak: Correct
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snarfed.org edited /pubsub (+1) "google => android" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /Celery (+560) "better definition" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /queueing (+4) "/* Message Queues */ linkify Celery" (view diff)
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kylewm Celery is really a sledgehammer for what I'm doing with it
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tantek snarfed: does Bridgy Publish POSSE invitation posts?
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tantek to FB
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snarfed tantek: no. looking to see if fb's api supports it
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tantek checking /invitation
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snarfed nope: https://developers.facebook.com/docs/graph-api/reference/v2.2/event/invited#publish
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snarfed this is why we can't have nice things
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gRegor` sad (facebook) trombone
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tantek a-ha: https://indiewebcamp.com/invitation#POSSEing_invitations
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tantek darn it
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tantek.com edited /invitation (+1049) "/* POSSEing invitations */ details on FB and Twitter, note possibility of Proxying to Twitter" (view diff)
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tantek thanks for the reference snarfed - captured
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tantek also started brainstorming how it may make sense to POSSE an invitation to Twitter - more brainstorming / plain text design to come
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tantek once I've got POSSEing of invitations to Twitter working (whether manually or automatically), I'll write up a suggested way that Bridgy could do so as well
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tantek hmm - of course POSSEing an invitation to Twitter then begs the question of how do the people you @-invite that way @-reply with plain text RSVP semantics that are predictable/discoverable/readable/parsable?
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tantek and then that begs the question of an entire plain text event creation, invitation, RSVP flow
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tantek uh oh
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tantek dang it - I keep uncovering interesting design problems
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tantek hah - scared him too ;)
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tantek so that basically means figuring out the plain text authoring / interaction flow for all of https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/User_stories#RSVPs_invitations_comments_to_an_event
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tantek at least I wrote up the user story
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tantek I wonder - has anyone thought about plain text UI for "simple" post CRUD?
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snarfed http verbs?
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snarfed ducks
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tantek snarfed except people don't txt in http verbs :P
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snarfed hence the ducking :P
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tantek there's also some overlap between plain text UI and voice commands
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tantek hmmm … prior art …
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@kevinmarks "@safari: What's hotter than #AngularJS, #Backbone, #Ember, #React? Pure, unadulterated JavaScript. http://t.co/Jzdf99PBse" HTML5 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/573264258584059905)
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tantek http://www.criticalcommons.org/Members/ironman28/clips/bladeRunner3DphotoH264.mov/view
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kylewm tantek: boy seems like that would've been easier with a mouse
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tantek kylewm: or a touch screen perhaps?
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tantek.com edited /invitation (+619) "/* POSSEing to Twitter */ document plain text event UI rabbitholes, you know, as a trap for someone to come along and fall into" (view diff)
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tantek how to avoid a rabbithole, document it so someone else can fall into it instead.
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snarfed indienerdsniping
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tantek snarfed, I like to think of it as wikitrapping
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