#indiewebcamp 2015-03-06

2015-03-06 UTC
benwerd, KartikPrabhu and tantek joined the channel
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tantek KevinMarks: that's a very good impedance match for our purposes
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tantek wherein we require that nested objects have their own URL, and thus be created with their own micropub calls
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tantek then any referring object (whether the relationship is "nesting" or not) can do so by URL - you know, links, like the linked data people supposedly espouse ;)
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tantek no one has shown an actual use-case for "complex data, such as a javascript object" therefore it is unnecessary (and undesirable, per simplification and minimizing security surface principles) to support it.
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tantek and we should pushback against anyone who asks for it accordingly
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tantek checks the top of werd.io for the latest
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tantek checks http://stream.withknown.com/
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bret !tell elf-pavlik yeah, definitely have to be selective about what goes into form encoding. the benefit is that form-encoding and multipart are supported by html browser forms today right now
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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bret switching to json indieauth callbacks sounds like it would be an improvement, and aligns with oauth2
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bret tantek: for posting of micropub collections, would you see a client making a series of individual posts, followed by a collections post containing the 202 accepted URLs from the individual posts?
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bret as a way to avoid nesting?
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@t Known Pro is here! https://withknown.com/pro/ Congrats @benwerd @erinjo! #indieweb @Withknown's superior ... http://tantek.com/2015/064/t1/known-pro-launched-congratulations (twitter.com/_/status/573644398539354112)
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Loqi [mention] Ben Werdmüller posted 'Why I'm excited about Known Pro (and what's next for us) 2 min read ...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (http://werd.io/2015/why-im-excited-about-known-pro-and-whats-next-for)
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@benwerd @t Thank you!! Really excited to open a new chapter in what we're doing. And glad, as always, to be part of the #indieweb community. (twitter.com/_/status/573645399522594816)
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@kylewm2 RT @t: Known Pro is here! https://withknown.com/pro/ Congrats @benwerd @erinjo! #indieweb @Withknown's superior ... http://tantek.com/2015/064/t1/known-pro-launched-congratulations (twitter.com/_/status/573645996359450624)
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tantek bret - that sounds right - every item in a collection post has its own permalink, and thus must have been posted before the collection itself.
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bigbluehat.com edited /2015/Cambridge/Guest_List (+401) "Add myself to the Guest List" (view diff)
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/437461433068146#10205101239744455 was invited to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge
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@kevinmarks RT @t: Known Pro is here! https://withknown.com/pro/ Congrats @benwerd @erinjo! #indieweb @Withknown's superior ... http://tantek.com/2015/064/t1/known-pro-launched-congratulations (twitter.com/_/status/573663808566136833)
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@kevinmarks “Known Pro: It's the best way to reach your audience, wherever they are on the web, from a single platform” http://werd.io/2015/why-im-excited-about-known-pro-and-whats-next-for #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/573664363371892736)
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@RyanMachara http://tantek.com/2015/064/t1/known-pro-here-congrats-indieweb http://tantek.com/2015/064/t1/known-pro-here-congrats-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/573664372196687873)
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@lhl @benwerd hah, yeah ran into @t and (of course) chatted about events and indieweb stuff and ended up on @withknown :) (twitter.com/_/status/573666721237610496)
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GWG snarfed: Updated syndication-links
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GWG snarfed: You can now enqueue minimal-bw.min.css and it will give you the icon setup without the genericons or the colors.
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GWG snarfed: I also got crazy and added a second font choice.
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ben_thatmustbeme sweet, it looks like Tim Owens' company may sponsor 2 meals for IWC as well
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GWG Which ones?
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GWG I get breakfast with my room
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tantek good evening #indiewebcamp
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GWG Good evening.
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /2015/Cambridge/Planning (+221) "/* TODO */ response from Tim Owens." (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /2015/Cambridge/Planning (-1) "/* TODO */" (view diff)
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aaronpk !tell benwerd how's reader functionality looking on the Known plan? I'm wondering if I can build components of my reader as libraries that you can use for it
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronparecki.com edited /p3k (-137) "/* Source Code */ remove duplicate" (view diff)
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aaronpk well I didn't expect to publish this tonight...
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Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki posted 'In the current world of silos dominating the social media space, people typically have to visit half a dozen websites or apps to see all the...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/reader (https://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/03/05/2/designing-an-indieweb-reader)
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aaronpk i don't often post two articles on one day!
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snarfed1 aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 728 karma
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snarfed1 hard to imagine giving up my app-based reader, since i use it offline so often, but i can't wait to see how yours turns out!
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aaronpk interesting! I almost never read things offline
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aaronpk whoa twitter switched to OAuth 2 for application auth
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aaronpk kind of
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snarfed aaronpk: ?!
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aaronpk Just bearer tokens for application access. Not for user auth
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tantek nice post aaronpk
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aaronpk Thanks!
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aaronpk I'm trying to be more deliberate about designing this
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aaronpk So that I don't make mistakes I regret later
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tantek and so that you don't simply reimplement the dated 1990s email client UI of RSS readers.
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aaronpk Haha yes also that
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tantek it's amazing how much "modern" sw/hw is just regurgitated shiny/gradiented versions of 1990s UIs
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tantek like iOS Contacts app.
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Loqi [bridgy] Karina Kakov RSVPed maybe to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge (https://www.facebook.com/437461433068146#1609641549253006)
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kartikprabhu.com edited /IndieAuth (+147) "/* Why is the IndieAuth verification response form-encoded instead of JSON */" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu well i do strive to be the old-school dissenting voice ^
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snarfed bret: this is probably relevant to your interests: http://huffduff-video.snarfed.org/
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snarfed and whoever else was interested in it a while back (forgot who)
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snarfed still very rough, not ready to announce it quite yet, but feel free to try it out
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snarfed (it downloads and processes the video synchronously right now, so the request will take a while. let it load.)
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@acegiak if you're building an #indieweb reader think about what ux decisions you can make to make your reader easy and - http://acegiak.net/2015/03/06/9267/ (twitter.com/_/status/573734147337809920)
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acegiak lol twitter truncation missing the point :P
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@kevinmarks "@SameerPatel: “My love letter to an app long gone” by @joshelman https://t.co/VZyolmawxD" how owning users is creepy & we need #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/573738414782083072)
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@kevinmarks “Our challenge now is to integrate our humanity into our online lives.” http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/05/who-is-a-real-friend-who-is-just-a-friend-on-the-internet #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/573748831440928769)
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/437461433068146#10102039262787839 was invited to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/437461433068146#10206206488626241 was invited to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/437461433068146#785577314861408 was invited to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/437461433068146#2596942406419 was invited to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/437461433068146#10153229383501458 was invited to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge
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@billallison RT @kevinmarks: “Our challenge now is to integrate our humanity into our online lives.” http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/05/who-is-a-real-friend-who-is-just-a-friend-on-the-internet #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/573768058541490176)
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@bookprescom 11 Tactics to Get More Click-Throughs from Social Media >> http://www.quicksprout.com/?p=30080&utm_content=buffera5edb&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #SocialMedia Tip from Neil Patel. #SelfPublish #IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/573785154424082432)
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@btconf We've few more seats for #IndieWebCamp Germany during #btconf. 1. Register: http://beyondtellerrand.com/events/duesseldorf-2015/side-events#indiewebcamp 2. Add yourself: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany/Guest_List (twitter.com/_/status/573806185314410496)
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marcthiele.com edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (+1) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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tantek REMINDER: OSBridg proposal deadline is tomorrow night! Submit a talk today if you can: http://opensourcebridge.org/call-for-proposals/
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tantek s/OSBridg/OSBridge
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Loqi tantek meant to say: REMINDER: OSBridge proposal deadline is tomorrow night! Submit a talk today if you can: http://opensourcebridge.org/call-for-proposals/
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tantek note that they specifically highlight "Indie Web" as one of the "talks from past years that we really liked and felt captured the spirit of our event"
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tantek http://opensourcebridge.org/call-for-proposals/##Indie Web
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GWG Good morning, all.
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@Freerange_Inc @N1ckLambert @maidsafe phd looking at open data, indieweb & maker movement, & how values are embedded in practices & what that reflects... (twitter.com/_/status/573862441106423808)
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jasonw22 so many choices… https://www.staticgen.com
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jasonw22 curious to hear thoughts/opinions
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ben_thatmustbeme eh, i find i always end up wanting to do non-static sites though
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jasonw22 curious to hear about that too. what pushes you that way, in particular?
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millette jasonw22, I wrote my own, since I wanted to explore pouchdb and offline editing. Tiny bit of code, now to indiewebify it, shouldn't be too complicated.
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millette 400 options is like none at all
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jasonw22 it is rather overwhelming
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bret snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 92 karma
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bret !tell snarfed woohoo! Looks awesome! I never got my attempt past prototyping. Now I don't have to :]
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Pierre-O jasonw22: I used octopress (version 2 I think), I would recommend of just using jekyll, or wait stable octopress3
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Pierre-O but in the long run, when you need just to share a link, it's quiet time consuming to create a new post.
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Pierre-O I loved the idea of static site, but it's just not enough "dynamic" as you can imagine :)
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Pierre-O IMHO, the missing part is a micropub2github as a service, and then we can start discussing about static sites :)
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ben_thatmustbeme jasonw22, display of comments on the fly, being able to manage posts/etc from my phone without having to remote connect to my home machine or need any software, those things are pretty key for me
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Pierre-O To be more precise: micropub2git as a service
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ben_thatmustbeme couldn't you build that pretty easily without a service
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Pierre-O Or add micropub capabilities to prose.io
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ben_thatmustbeme just a micropub endpoint that saves to files and then execs the git commands
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Pierre-O yeah, true :) Actually, you don't need to go though git (except if you use github to publish your site)
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Pierre-O and then, it is the exec of the rendering
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Pierre-O but you see, this is the thing, you need host some dynamic pieces, or find a "as a service"
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Pierre-O So now, I'm using known, and I'm happy :)
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jasonw22 thanks for the feedback. I'll chew on it. github is an appealing publishing target, which is part of my motivation for exploring SSG
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pdurbin jasonw22: nice to hear you mention #indiewebcamp here: https://botbot.me/freenode/opensourcedesign/2015-03-06/?msg=33527864&page=2
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jasonw22 :)
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ben_thatmustbeme the problem i would have with using github would be any private messaging, you would need to have a private repo
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jasonw22 hmm, i hadn't really considered private messaging. i've always felt pretty ambivalent about the use of the web for private communication. it's not uncommon, but it feels sort of counterintuitive to me. just a personal bias
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ben_thatmustbeme I'm going to be hopefully talking a bit about ideas for this at IWC
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ben_thatmustbeme i really want to get private messaging up and going. i'd love to abstract above that, but one building block at a time
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ben_thatmustbeme getting notifications working on my own phone would be a big first step
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jasonw22 it's an intriguing idea. maybe you'll win me over ;-)
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pdurbin jasonw22: no kidding about private messaging: https://soundcloud.com/philipdurbin/anyone-could-read-this
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pdurbin transcript: http://wiki.greptilian.com/podcasts/clips/anyone-could-read-this/
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jasonw22 pdurbin: that fairly accurately echoes my thoughts on the subject
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pdurbin "the expectation that everybody could read this. Even on Facebook when you have privacy settings"
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pdurbin jasonw22: I'm glad I'm not alone :)
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ben_thatmustbeme So do you ever text people?
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ben_thatmustbeme do you ever DM on twitter, or use facebook messanger, or imessage, or hangouts
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jasonw22 oh, i have to admit my hypocrisy.
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@adactio You should come to IndieWebCamp Germany in May. It’s going to be fun. https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany/Guest_List (twitter.com/_/status/573886219966373888)
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jasonw22 but it's the difference between "I trust [x] to do security right" and confidence in my own skills in that area
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@asciidisco RT @adactio: You should come to IndieWebCamp Germany in May. It’s going to be fun. https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany/Guest_List (twitter.com/_/status/573886392624881664)
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jasonw22 and i have to agree that if there were a way to be self-confident about that, it would become easier to trust myself than a 3rd party. but all that remains to be seen
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jasonw22 publishing alone has major usability issues. adding crypto to the stack drastically complicates things. at least, that's my current perception
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ben_thatmustbeme who needs crypto?
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jasonw22 anyone that wants privacy?
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ben_thatmustbeme we already have encryption with SSL, you just need authentication
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jasonw22 ask the average facebook user to configure an SSL-enabled server and cert. what do you think might happen?
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pdurbin ben_thatmustbeme: what are you getting at asking about if we ever text people? (which I do)
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ben_thatmustbeme pdurbin, its the same thing as private messaging. There have been leaks of text data as well
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ben_thatmustbeme jasonw22, if they are using a silo to interface they would presumably have it set up for them
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ben_thatmustbeme ask a facebook sysadmin to set up ssl is the actual analogy
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jasonw22 well, at the moment my primary interest in #indieweb is exploring the world outside of silos, and finding ways to make that world more accessible and usable for creative folks (who may not be the most technical people on the web)
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pdurbin I guess I'll say I try to keep my private messaging to a minimum. I hang out in publicly logged IRC channels ( http://wiki.greptilian.com/haunts ) and I like this post a lot: http://blog.codinghorror.com/maximizing-the-value-of-your-keystrokes/
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ben_thatmustbeme jasonw22, i'm saying find the methods to do it and the obscuring of the difficult parts will come
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ben_thatmustbeme look at Known
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ben_thatmustbeme now people don't have to deal with setting up their own server and can join in the indieweb comunity
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jasonw22 true, but it is in many ways another silo
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jasonw22 this is not a bad thing
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ben_thatmustbeme Known is the new kind of silo, its a silo that works with indieweb
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jasonw22 it just isn't where my current interest lies
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ben_thatmustbeme i think thats the realistic target
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aaronpk it's not a silo unless it owns your identity
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jasonw22 defining "silo" is an interesting challenge
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aaronpk what is a silo?
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Loqi A silo, or web content hosting silo, in the context of the IndieWeb, is a centralized web site typically owned by a for-profit corporation that stakes some claim to content contributed to it and restricts access in some way (has walls) https://indiewebcamp.com/silo
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pdurbin Pierre-O: speaking of prose.io, I'm curious what you think about this: GitHub OAuth scope public_repo allows broad access · Issue #816 · prose/prose - https://github.com/prose/prose/issues/816
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ben_thatmustbeme so we need a new name for what Known is then
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jasonw22 i'd like to chew on that question for a bit. i don't have a prepared answer :-)
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tuxed.net edited /IndieAuth (+250) (view diff)
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aaronpk known is an indieweb-friendly service
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aaronpk fkooman: did you see my reply to your post yesterday?
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ben_thatmustbeme 4 characters vs 24 characters.... thats too long to type :P
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jasonw22 I'd like the full flexibility of the web in a publishing platform that has minimal server dependencies so that i can easily migrate content without regard to economics and/or politics of hosting environments
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fkooman aaronpk: I'm not sure, here on IRC?
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aaronpk no, blog post
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aaronpk i sent you a webmention and everything ;)
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aaronpk fkooman: http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/03/05/1/re-proposed-changes-to-indieauth-protocol
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fkooman aaronpk: ah no i didn't see that, thanks :)
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fkooman reading now :)
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jasonw22 too many words. i'm going to wordsmith this offline (and later in the day)
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pdurbin jasonw22: you might be interested in "we don't lock you in" at http://indiewebcamp.com/Branchable
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aaronpk jasonw22: yes the ability to pick up a pile of HTML files and ftp it to any hosting provider and have it work with no configuration changes is a good goal for modern systems
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ben_thatmustbeme trying to think of what the equivalent of silo is in the "silo analogy" Pile? warehouse? container yard?
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ben_thatmustbeme hehe
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jasonw22 aaronpk gets what i mean
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Loqi [bridgy] ge ricci favorited a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany/Guest_List (https://twitter.com/adactio/status/573886219966373888)
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Loqi [bridgy] Julien Genestoux favorited a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany/Guest_List (https://twitter.com/adactio/status/573886219966373888)
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Pierre-O pdurbin: I stopped investigating Static Indie Web site, and so prose.io, after I migrated to known
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ben_thatmustbeme actually i think the future is more likely to be a goal of having any hosting provider being able to run your machine image, so you can pick that up and send it anywhere
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Loqi [bridgy] Jay Greasley favorited a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany/Guest_List (https://twitter.com/adactio/status/573886219966373888)
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jcap ben_thatmustbeme, or container
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: that's certainly one way of handling it. probably not the only way.
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ben_thatmustbeme somewhat already there with digital ocean and such
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ben_thatmustbeme it gets rid of limitations of just HTML
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Loqi [bridgy] Dr. Tobias Fünke retweeted a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany/Guest_List (https://twitter.com/asciidisco/status/573886392624881664)
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tjgillies one of my indie sites is hosted decentrally
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@helloanselm RT @adactio: You should come to IndieWebCamp Germany in May. It’s going to be fun. https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany/Guest_List (twitter.com/_/status/573890264097513473)
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aaronpk relevant: http://xkcd.com/1495/
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Pierre-O jasonw22: It is what we are trying to do at indiehosters.net hosting people's server and give them seamless migration to change their hosting provider
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pdurbin Pierre-O: that's cool. I find this prose.io screenshot terrifying: https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/21006/6318960/ecc080c2-ba78-11e4-911c-d520ee5741e4.png
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Pierre-O and we offer known hosting also :)
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ben_thatmustbeme there is an xkcd for everything
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fkooman aaronpk: thanks for your blog post! I'll think about it some more, i didn't know about h-x-app :)
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Pierre-O pdurbin: yes, it is, it's like the adroid flash light app that request access to your whole phone ;)
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tjgillies ben_thatmustbeme: would be really meta to have an xkcd that talked about an xkcd for everything
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tjgillies http://shell.tylergillies.club:8080/ipfs/QmfRwiEqDEFaTzmaVbuFUxBZC28QJjihNuvou1R4FvHcwN/
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@dougmckown @withknown Any plans for an iOS share sheet item? Sharing a link to a Known site on a iPhone is painful. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/573890854298976257)
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tjgillies decentralize all the html
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Pierre-O tjgillies: do you have some pointers to your 'infra'?
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tjgillies infra?
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@pierreozoux @dougmckown @withknown what about a micropub mobile client? http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub (twitter.com/_/status/573891097337925634)
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ben_thatmustbeme someone needs to suggest that to xkcd
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Pierre-O tjgillies: "one of my indie sites is hosted decentrally"
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ben_thatmustbeme hmmm, we are going to have 3 Bens at IWC Cambridge
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ben_thatmustbeme too bad benwerd won't be there too
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ben_thatmustbeme we had 3 Bens last year too i think
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tjgillies Pierre-O: It's just static content hosted in IPFS
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Pierre-O Didn't know about IPFS, cool :)
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tjgillies MobilePub isn't getting past the login screen :(
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fkooman aaronpk: i guess i agree with everything you say, especilly since it seems the service is used for more than just authentication :)
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aaronpk yes, and it's partly my fault for not making that more obvious at the beginning
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tjgillies what else is it used for?
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@silentdan RT @adactio: You should come to IndieWebCamp Germany in May. It’s going to be fun. https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany/Guest_List (twitter.com/_/status/573893411188641792)
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aaronpk authentication and authorization
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fkooman authorization ;)
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tjgillies oh
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tjgillies didn't even know that was a thing
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aaronpk oh it's a thing alright
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fkooman :D
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aaronpk http://oauth.net/articles/authentication/
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Loqi [bridgy] daniel koening favorited a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany/Guest_List (https://twitter.com/adactio/status/573886219966373888)
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tjgillies authentorization
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aaronpk oh jeez
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Loqi [bridgy] daniel koening retweeted a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany/Guest_List (https://twitter.com/silentdan/status/573893411188641792)
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Loqi [bridgy] Anselm Hannemann retweeted a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany/Guest_List (https://twitter.com/helloanselm/status/573890264097513473)
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tjgillies so making a user id on your site is authentication. getting user id from other site to create/login id is authorization...?
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Loqi [bridgy] Doug McKown replied '@pierreozoux @withknown This would require a native iOS app, correct?' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub (https://twitter.com/dougmckown/status/573892366471426048)
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tjgillies I sucks we have two very similar words with very dissimilar semantic values
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tjgillies it*
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michielbdejong is anybody here from Finland?
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snarfed tjgillies: afaik authentication is logging in (regardless of where), authorization is granting permission to do something (or determining whether you have it)
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tjgillies is from Funland
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Loqi snarfed: bret left you a message 1 hour, 46 minutes ago: woohoo! Looks awesome! I never got my attempt past prototyping. Now I don't have to :]
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tjgillies snarfed: roger. btw what is bret talking about in that message?
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bret tjgillies: one sec
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snarfed tjgillies: got me, i haven't seen his msg
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ben_thatmustbeme I always think of it as, authentication is loging in (giving yourself permission), authorization is giving permission to something else
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snarfed (but thanks for the kind words bret!)
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bret tjgillies: http://huffduff-video.snarfed.org/
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michielbdejong tjgillies: Funland or Finland? :)
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aaronpk authentication could also be thought of as identification
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ben_thatmustbeme "auth" is too confusing to use i guess
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aaronpk "auth" is terrible because it's a prefix of both :(
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tjgillies michielbdejong: Funland.. aka The dream of the 90s
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ben_thatmustbeme i know, my bad, i do that a lot
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michielbdejong OK :) I want to set up a free domain name registrar, but need a registrant with a postal address in Finland to be the admin contact
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pdurbin Pierre-O: exactly! like a flashlight app that wants to root your phone :)
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tjgillies lol
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bret snarfed: so I just hit this, and download subscribe right?
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bret gah english
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snarfed lol
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bret and download from my huffduff sub*
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snarfed yeah, on a video page, hit the bookmarklet, wait for it to load (i'll fix the lack of feedback soon), and it will eventually pop up the "huffduff it" page
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bret neato! do you know who runs huffduff?
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aaronpk btw everyone, my Linode database server is going to be rebooted in 40 minutes for linode maintenance, so all sorts of things will be offline temporarily
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aaronpk indieauth.com, the wiki, etc
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snarfed bret: yup! i pinged him too
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bret rad
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aaronpk huffduffer is by adactio right?
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adactio aaronpk: it is.
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aaronpk ohai!
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adactio :-)
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bret adactio++
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Loqi adactio has 14 karma
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tjgillies bret: podcast demo
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tjgillies oops
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tjgillies http://shell.tylergillies.club:8080/ipfs/QmNyKp3RuFeYUvAphHqbVhYyeD2x3x5V2NJJnvkJLBPqRF/podcast.html
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tjgillies kinda need the link heh
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bret lol
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bret tjgillies: i wonder if we can set up a light p2p cdn as the hosting mechanism for snarfed's thing
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snarfed bret: tjgillies: probably…but why?
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tjgillies because p2p all the things?
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@elfpavlik RT @adactio: You should come to IndieWebCamp Germany in May. It’s going to be fun. https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany/Guest_List (twitter.com/_/status/573897809151266816)
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snarfed backs away slowly
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bret self hosting large files
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bret all the kids are doing it!
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tjgillies offers snarfed some kool-aid
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snarfed a small minority of kids are doing it? for a minority of things?
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tjgillies small minority
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bret snarfed: can this handle 1 hour videos?
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tjgillies they don't call it indie for nothing ;)
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snarfed refrains from trolling…slighlty too late
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ben_thatmustbeme huffduffer still doesn't pull anything from my site, for my elsewhere links
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snarfed bret: maybe!
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Loqi [bridgy] ☮ elf Pavlik ☮ retweeted a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany/Guest_List (https://twitter.com/elfpavlik/status/573897809151266816)
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bret :] https://huffduffer.com/bret/213158
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snarfed bret: yay
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snarfed maybe i should add a link to huffduff-video in the description
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bret snarfed: how long does this cache for?
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snarfed bret: indefinitely
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snarfed ie until my s3 free quota runs out :P
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@pierreozoux @dougmckown @withknown it could be native or web. (I didn't try them though) but there is a lit here: http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#Clients (twitter.com/_/status/573898898927833088)
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snarfed in practice, at least months
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tjgillies bret: Have I evangelised NuBits to you yet?
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bret tjgillies: nope
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aaronpk PSA: the indiewebcamp server is going offline for maintenance. apologies in advance.
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tjgillies bret: Bitcoins that are worth a dollar man...
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tjgillies aaronpk: NOOOOOOOO
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tjgillies :(
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bret i dont have any money to play with digital currency
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tjgillies I can give u some monies
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tjgillies :)
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bret also all my dogecoin was stolen
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bret probrably should remove that address
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tjgillies :(
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bret snarfed: swee this works great
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bret sweet*
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snarfed yay!
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snarfed last todo before i announce it is to stream progress while it's downloading
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snarfed so it doesn't sit and spin forever
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Loqi yay!
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@kevinmarks @sarahjeong come chat in https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/today?beta#bottom and we can find you a good tool. You could have a static subdomain (twitter.com/_/status/573206173786116096)
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aaronpk oops crap
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aaronpk not a good time to tweet a link to the IRC logs
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aaronpk almost done
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Loqi lolz
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Loqi [bridgy] Doug McKown replied '@pierreozoux @withknown The idea is that as long as the site is micropub-compliant, I can use a 3rd party app, correct?' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#Clients (https://twitter.com/dougmckown/status/573901046235402241)
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Loqi [bridgy] Thierry Marianne favorited a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany/Guest_List (https://twitter.com/adactio/status/573886219966373888)
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aaronpk server's back online
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aaronpk now the other server is going offline
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp! < 2 weeks to IWC Cambridge!
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GWG I feel like I should be preparing
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tantek always be shipping, that's how you preapre
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snarfed morning tantek!
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tantek s/preapre/prepare
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Loqi tantek meant to say: always be shipping, that's how you prepare
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snarfed tantek: mind if i push something onto your stack? https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/371#issuecomment-77461813
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tantek *click*
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tantek note that the img of the person *after* their visible name does not need an 'alt' attribute of the same thing - because reading it would look like their name was duplicated for no reason
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tantek or rather, you can simply put alt="", indicating that the image does not need alternative text in addition to the already visible text
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snarfed that was based on your initial markup in this bug :P
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snarfed but sure, will do
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tantek wait what really? I thought I put alt=""
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snarfed oh nm
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snarfed no you did it right
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tantek also you could further minimize
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tantek hmm - will type into the issue
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snarfed i'm happy to revise the markup details. my main q was high level: whether likes and reposts should be refactored similarly, or whether this change was only appropriate for rsvps
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snarfed (perfectly minimal markup also isn't a top priority for me here, but *correct and appropriate* markup definitely is)
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tantek ooh - your minimal h-card can use all the implied prop goodness
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snarfed unintentionally nerdsniped tantek
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tantek snarfed: when does bridgy provide both an indieweb URL for someone, and their Twitter profile URL also? That seems - odd / unexpected.
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tantek commented
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snarfed tantek: usually
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tantek the example like and repost are different in this respect
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snarfed you're right, it's unusual, but multiple people asked for it, for e.g. de-duping, other use cases in presentation
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snarfed all mf2 props can be multi-valued, so it's not too bad, right?
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aaronpk huh, i've actually found the website field on twitter profiles to be not very useful, since lots of people put things in their profile that are not their website, like their company site, etc
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tantek it's totally fine, was just surprised a bit
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tantek aaronpk: correct, the website field on Twitter cannot be used as their "canonical" URL unless it passes rel-me reciprocation
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aaronpk yeah, I have several comments that look weird because of that. I'm not sure I'm up to the task of checking all those though
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tantek check then stick it in your nicknames cache
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kylewm if someone publishes (page-scoped) rel=syndication on individual posts in their h-feed, should I 1. complain to them and ask them to fix, 2. ignore rel=syndication in woodwind, 3. change mf2py to read rel=syndication as h-entry scoped?
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tantek kylewm: I figured it out! (the "special response" vs. fall back handling)
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tantek based on existing comment handling
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kylewm really??
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tantek which says to use summary if it is there, otherwise use content
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tantek solution: all "special" response special handling is done *instead of* using summary
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tantek then "content" is for any actual *user-entered* content *in addition to* whatever the special response handling is for
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tantek *summary* is where you provide the fallback for non-special-response handling consuming code
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tantek and for all consuming code, "name" already serves the role of what you use to label things - <title> of page, item in a list view, etc.
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tantek ...
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tantek or rather
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tantek =====================
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kylewm let me try that out with my test rsvp
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tantek kylewm: re: rel=syndication on posts in an h-feed, yes it is a bug, can you add that as a feature request to indiewebifyme?
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tantek what is indiewebifyme?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "indiewebifyme" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=indiewebifyme&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-06%2Fline%2F1425670667334
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tantek.com created /indiewebifyme (+25) "r" (view diff)
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kylewm http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fkylewm.com%2Ftest%2Frsvp-summary.html
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tantek kylewm: that is, indiewebify.me should report an error if you attempt to validate an h-feed (or a page with multiple h-entry ) that also has rel=syndication links https://github.com/indieweb/indiewebify-me
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kylewm I'll file that, eys
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tantek kylewm: your test-summary should include the content as part of the summary
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tantek since that's what you want fallback consuming code to show as the "comment"
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kylewm ah, that makes sense
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kylewm so rsvp-aware consumers would know to ignore the summary?
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kylewm or, could be improved to ignore the summary
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kylewm I like that!
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tantek any special-response-aware consumers should ignore the summary and instead use their special-response-specific-data
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tantek same goes for likes, reposts
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tantek and any other special response we come up with
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kylewm special-response-specific-data in this case is p-content, and not like p-rsvp-qualification right?
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tantek no special-response-specific-data is p-rsvp for an rsvp
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tantek that's the point. when an rsvp-aware consuming code sees p-rsvp, then it knows, hey this is an rsvp, I'll display it as an rsvp, and ignore the summary.
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tantek oh but if there's "content" then I'll dispaly that *in addition* to my special rsvp display code
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aaronpk so basically summary is for autogenerated summaries of special post types?
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tantek semi-auto-generated
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tantek since for example, even in this case the summary should include the content (or most of it if it's too long, which is also typically auto-ellipsed by the publisher)
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kylewm aaronpk: I'm not sure why php-mf2 removes the whitespace between "I'm attending" and "Homebrew" http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fkylewm.com%2Ftest%2Frsvp-summary.html
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kylewm want me to file a bug?
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tantek anyway that's the proposed solution
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aaronpk kylewm: is that a parser problem? i've noticed that happens sometimes
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aaronpk i don't know how to fix that but barnaby probably will
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kylewm yeah, we've gone through a couple ofiterations of how to generate p-name in mf2py
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kylewm Kartik ended up finding some magic undocumented method to do it iirc
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kylewm hopes barnaby is not gone for good
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tantek kylewm: he pops up once in a while - was just here a week or so ago
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snarfed hey tantek, can i abuse your mozilla knowledge? my firefox saved passwords all disappeared sometime in the last day or so, i think when i upgraded to 36. know a good place i should go to find a fix?
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tantek did you notice your history disappearing too?
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tantek and bookmarks?
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snarfed i'm a bit overwhelmed by all the support links + search results
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snarfed no, just passwords
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snarfed not a new profile
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tantek ok I have not heard of that one :(
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snarfed i have backups, so not worried about data loss. just not sure how to fix yet
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snarfed np, i'll figure it out
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tantek passwords--
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Loqi passwords has -1 karma
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kylewm filed 1. https://github.com/indieweb/indiewebify-me/issues/37 2. https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/issues/61
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sparverius when my parents asked me how i managed my passwords, the look they gave me was priceless
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sparverius hint: reset password e'ery day
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snarfed for the record (and irc logs and searches), disabling this plugin fixed it and brought my passwords back: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/remember-passwords/
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snarfed ah, the ecstasy and agony of plugins of all kinds
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tantek that is an ironically name plugin
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snarfed :P
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tantek maybe they were going to upsell the pro version that "fixed" this bug? ;)
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snarfed heh
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snarfed nah it's small and old and unmaintained
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@avunque Very interesting! http://indiewebcamp.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/573940449561477120)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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zfisch hello world!
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zfisch I'm curious to see what's happening here : )
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tantek welcome zfisch!!
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zfisch hi tantek!
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zfisch please excuse my inexperience with IRC...
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zfisch I'm embarking on an experiment to try hosting my own website from home and of course this seemed like the best place to connect with people
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kylewm zfisch: great, yep lots of likeminded people here :)
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kylewm are you hosting your website somewhere already?
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zfisch github pages
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tantek kylewm: zfisch has been to an HWC meetup too!
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tantek (SF)
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zfisch i did, very exciting stuff!
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kylewm oh cool
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zfisch i was hoping to experiment with a node server on a raspberry pi, but i have no idea if this is a reasonable approach and what walls I'll be hitting along the way
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zfisch also curious about UBOS as a way to help in the process -- does anybody have any resources/links/advice that might be helpful in drawing up a plan of action?
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kylewm zfisch: does your home ISP let you serve from port 80?
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zfisch @kylewm: no clue
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kylewm that's an unexciting hurdle running your own server ... lots of ISPs don't like it
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kylewm as for UBOS, j12t is in here, he may have advice :)
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j12t Possibly. Fully warranted and guaranteed at the cost it has been provided :-)
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j12t zfisch: what software would you like to use for your site?
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j12t Like static files? Wordpress? Known? ...?
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zfisch hi J12t! static files to start, would be interested in experimenting with dynamic files later
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j12t From a pi? or ..?
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zfisch potentially, it seemed like the best place to run a server but I'm so new to this i'm not entirely sure
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j12t Depends what you have and/or willing to purchase. e.g. old unused PC, or single-board computing like pi or similar, or virtual machine on other box
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j12t all can be made to work
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j12t "best" as in most reliable, maintainable etc. would likely be dedicated (mini) pc
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zfisch nice! will probably purchase an inexpensive pc to dedicate specifically to this purpose
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j12t cool!
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zfisch i would love to continue this conversation later -- i need to take care of a project that just came up -- is this a good place to find you?
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j12t Yes, or on #ubos
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zfisch perfect! see you soon :)
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kylewm i'm looking forward to this little guy http://betanews.com/2015/03/03/system76-unveils-diminutive-broadwell-powered-meerkat-ubuntu-linux-desktop/
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aaronpk oo cute
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aaronpk the raspberry pi is pretty great too though
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j12t Pi 2 is much better than original pi, btw.
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j12t still, sd cards suck
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aaronpk have you tried installing UBOS on it yet?
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j12t Have it running right next to me
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aaronpk you could plug in SSD via USB tho right? or can it not boot from that?
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j12t i don't think so
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j12t boot that is
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aaronpk could you boot from the SD card but have the rest of the linux volumes on the ssd?
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j12t probably. trouble is that there are so many wires and things, I'd expect something gets disconnected twice a day
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j12t pi is great if you don't have any valuable data on the card
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j12t like my pool timer. I can just throw away the sdcard when it dies (and they do, regularly) without losing anything other than some logs
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aaronpk good to know
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j12t there are some guys building a box with a hd based on the pcduino3. better approach.
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j12t has sata
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@tistre It’s the little things: Somehow it makes me happy that I can “ssh [my e-mail address]”. Have your own server and domain, everyone! #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/573971393437696002)
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aaronpk well here is an annoying side effect of subscribing to xml feeds in woodwind...
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aaronpk the xml feed (both the rss and atom) put the comic in a media container so it looks great in woodwind
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aaronpk but when i post a "like" to my site, my site gets the URL of the HTML page, which doesn't have microformats2 markup, so it doesn't know about the image
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aaronpk so the like ends up looking pretty weird: http://aaron.pk/f4a01
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KevinMarks I was thinking I needed a trick for unmung for that
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KevinMarks so it could unmung a post into an h-entry too
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@almereyda IndieWeb'bish POSSE'ing again after a little tweak of the Dockerfile. https://github.com/allmende/docker-known/commit/c9e6b6e14870fee84f8bc3fa2d90720d836c67ae http://known.allmende.io/s/4znKJ (twitter.com/_/status/573980837194104832)
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tantek anyone submitting to OSBridge?
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johannesdachsel.com edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (+265) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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aaronpk wow I hadn't even thought about it yet
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tantek aaronpk - I can't go
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tantek it conflicts with a Mozilla meeting week
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aaronpk oh no!
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tantek anyway - get something up there!
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tantek http://opensourcebridge.org/call-for-proposals/
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tantek they love the indieweb
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aaronpk that means the portland mozillians can't go either right?
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tantek they put both my and Ward's talks - both indieweb related - as "types of talks they've liked in past years"
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aaronpk nice
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@johannesdachsel Going to attend #IndieWebCamp in Düsseldorf for the first time. I'm excited! (twitter.com/_/status/573987521413169152)
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tantek aaronpk, at a minimum propose a talk on Micropub - the emerging de facto standard for posting to the social web
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tantek there you go, gave you a title :)
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tantek and correct, mozpdx people can't go either
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tantek and yes we pointed out OSBridge as a conflict to the organizers - can't have it all :(
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tantek !tell bret you should propose an indieweb talk for OSBridge! Neither I nor dietrich nor any other MozPDX folks can go - so you should go and rock it! http://opensourcebridge.org/call-for-proposals/
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek !tell bret proposals for OSBridge due 2015-03-07 midnight PST!!!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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bret oh man
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bret i should
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Loqi bret: tantek left you a message 35 seconds ago: you should propose an indieweb talk for OSBridge! Neither I nor dietrich nor any other MozPDX folks can go - so you should go and rock it! http://opensourcebridge.org/call-for-proposals/
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aaronpk yeah!
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Loqi bret: tantek left you a message 22 seconds ago: proposals for OSBridge due 2015-03-07 midnight PST!!!
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Loqi +1
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bret ill try to sqeeze in a propozal
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bret proposal*
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tantek bret - you could do a talk on How to get on the IndieWeb with a static site!
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tantek since you've totally figured out all the pieces of that and the challenges
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tantek and static sites are a trending popular thing - a subject worth expanding on
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tantek there's your title :)
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bret i feel like it might be more interesting as an indieweb safari, like checking out all the interesting stuff lately
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tantek great!
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aaronpk actually I find specific topics do better
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aaronpk wow I just raelized I have spoken at osbridge for 5 years in a row
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aaronpk time flies
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johannesdachsel.com edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (+0) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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