#indiewebcamp 2015-03-16

2015-03-16 UTC
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kodomulo-relay they own the networks, they have the right to censor whatever they want.
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kodomulo-relay its our fault for using their product
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shaners kodomulo-relay tjgillies: what's your language of choice these days?
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kodomulo-relay I usually do ruby. but I feel pretty confident in JavaScript
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acegiak has anyone ever had or heard of experience with one.com web hosting?
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Loqi acegiak: GWG left you a message 1 hour, 59 minutes ago: Thinking of changing the response display http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-15/line/1426458880214
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acegiak I'm thinking it looks like a nice entry point webhost for helping people get set up with their own blogs
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shaners kodomulo-relay: There are some outstanding issues on the ruby mf2 parser, if you want to get into that.
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shaners https://github.com/g5/microformats2/issues
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shaners tjgillies kodomulo-relay: which handle do you prefer we mention to talk to you?
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aaronpk oh man i'm pretty excited about this Monocle thing
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aaronpk it's coming along nicely, and pretty quick too!
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tjgillies shaners: either or, I'll see it eventually heh.
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shaners What is Monocle?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Monocle" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Monocle&summary=prompted+by+shaners+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-15%2Fline%2F1426467962361
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snarfed aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 738 karma
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shaners Good night, all!
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Loqi gute nacht!
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aaronparecki.com created /Monocle (+155) "stub with dfn and link. prompted by shaners https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-15/line/1426467962361" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme !tell fkooman yes I do, its on my list of things, actually, https://github.com/dissolve/postly/issues/6
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG acegiak: You still here?
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acegiak i am!
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GWG acegiak: I have an idea I'm thinking of trying for Post Kinds.
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GWG Wanted your take
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acegiak shoot
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GWG acegiak: I was looking at Semantic Linkbacks
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GWG https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-semantic-linkbacks/blob/master/semantic-linkbacks.php#L160
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GWG I was wondering if it make work better if I wrote the Post Kinds response dialogue using a structure like this
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GWG I've been trying to make it simpler, but I keep making it harder to read
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acegiak do a pencil mockup for me?
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gRegor` ben_thatmustbeme: For your webmention vouch *sending*, what is the UI? Do you manually enter a vouch for each URL you're sending a wm to?
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Loqi User interface, often abbreviated as UI, formerly called human interface (HI), refers to presentational and interactive design elements of potentially any tool, but usually electronic tools, specifically their hardware and/or software https://indiewebcamp.com/ui
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gRegor` Haha
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gRegor` Thanks, Loqi
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Loqi woot!
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GWG acegiak: Basically, structure the line as a string I can finish up with using sprintf.
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GWG acegiak: That was the part I was thinking of.
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acegiak I would have one box for both kind and cite
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acegiak if you select repost then the content box is visible
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GWG acegiak: This is for the part that currently says "Liked What I Liked by Person I Liked"
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acegiak OH! right
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acegiak yeah that mkaes sense
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GWG I think it would make it more flexible
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acegiak def
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ben_thatmustbeme !tell aaronpk, shaners I am trying to catch up on that conversation, but I also have alternate display for "checkin" vs "note-with-geotag" basically.... I add mp-type to all of my micropub clients, since its a micropub control part not something from the post, If you want to do vendor prefix i would say use mp-<vendor>-type
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG You could, for example, customize it by extension to use your name in it.
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@gvillalta99 IndieAuth Documentation - Sign in with your domain name http://gvillalta99.tumblr.com/post/113746428515/indieauth-documentation-sign-in-with-your-domain#_=_ (twitter.com/_/status/577284394177671168)
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ben_thatmustbeme gRegor` there is no UI at all, its all handled programatically
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gRegor` ben_thatmustbeme: Oh, ok. Is that in any of your published code?
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ben_thatmustbeme gRegor`: yes, though I need to document it better
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gRegor` I don't mind reading through it for ideas. :)
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ben_thatmustbeme Most of it is in the Model file https://github.com/dissolve/postly/blob/master/model/webmention/vouch.php
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ben_thatmustbeme basically several pieces, I record incomming referrer values, then on a cronjob process to figure out if they are usable as vouches to send out
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ben_thatmustbeme when i need a vouch I curl the page I am replying to, their main URL (which hopefully is their feed) and any rel=me on their homepage (that is in the same domain) in hopes of finding a whitelist/friends list
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ben_thatmustbeme if I find any links on those, I see if I have them in my list of usable vouches
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ben_thatmustbeme the whitelist thing is something i do, if you look in my page i have rel=me to /whitelist
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gRegor` Cool, thanks for the info. I'm working on a webmention plugin for ProcessWire that I will be using, and I'd like it to have Vouch support before I release it.
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Loqi the W3C F2F meeting
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Loqi Countdown set by aaronpk on 2/8/15 at 6:54pm
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ben_thatmustbeme gRegor` excellent
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gRegor` Not sure I follow this line, ben_thatmustbeme: https://github.com/dissolve/postly/blob/master/model/webmention/vouch.php#L91
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gRegor` (and that if-block)
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gRegor` I see you've written up the process, too. Awesome. http://indiewebcamp.com/Postly#Searching_for_a_domain_to_use_for_a_vouch
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gRegor` ben_thatmustbeme++
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme has 52 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme ahh, i have to run the test twice because of how preg_match_all works...
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ben_thatmustbeme so the first one looks for rel="me" href=".." the second one looks for those in the reverse order
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ben_thatmustbeme seemed easier than running the entire page through a parser
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gRegor` Oh I see
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ben_thatmustbeme oh yes, i forgot i did that
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ben_thatmustbeme i figured someone would want that info if they went to implement it
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gRegor` Looks like it's matching any rel-value on an href, correct? Because you want to skip the rel=nofollow links subsequently.
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /Vouch (+99) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme yes, rel=nofollow is not a valid vouch
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tantek good evening #indiewebcamp!
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kodomulo-relay evening
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tantek kodomulo, do you have a personal site?
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KartikPrabhu tantek: kodomulo-relay is tjgillies
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KartikPrabhu his website is http://tyler.cat/ but seems to be having a MySQL booboo atm
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tantek KartikPrabhu: thanks. tjgillies perhaps add your kodomulo alias to /irc-people ?
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tantek good late evening #indiewebcamp
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KartikPrabhu tantek: good late evening to you
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tantek hi KartikPrabhu I'm working on at least a start of pull requests re: https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/83
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KartikPrabhu cleaning up mf2 examples with actual usage examples would really be helpful, specially for the w3c
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KartikPrabhu maybe even newbies to mf2
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KartikPrabhu I am really hping the use-cases and the ease of use of mf2 convinces people that we don't really need all the "fanciness" to get the social web working
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tantek the strongest case will be made by the preponderance of working real world implementations on people's sites
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KartikPrabhu yes
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KartikPrabhu i like that wordpress by its large-scale adoption is already backwards compatible with mf2
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KartikPrabhu no need to JSON-ify it
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tantek indeed
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aaronpk yup definitely dealing with html sanitization later
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Loqi aaronpk: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 5 hours, 4 minutes ago: I am trying to catch up on that conversation, but I also have alternate display for "checkin" vs "note-with-geotag" basically.... I add mp-type to all of my micropub clients, since its a micropub control part not something from the post, If you want to do vendor prefix i would say use mp-<vendor>-type http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-15/line/1426470271990
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: yeah that is tricky
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aaronpk lol that i'm testing timezone support with barnaby's posts but he posts in GMT (+0000)
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tantek it's a good place to start testing :)
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aaronpk well I am now displaying entries in Monocle!
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tantek aaronpk++ congrats!
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Loqi aaronpk has 739 karma
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@badgermind @freerange_inc also looking forward from an #indieweb perspective to #floss4P2P today and tomorrow :) (twitter.com/_/status/577368602439000064)
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@bengo @davewiner @brianjesse idk that that's a fair depiction. Your statement seems to be the exact idea manifested in http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/577371945521410048)
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melkeramik Hello. I've been reading https://david.shanske.com/2014/10/02/site-setup/ to get Indieweb to play nice with Wordpress, but running into several stumbling blocks. For example, what would be the recommended way to make an h-card show up on WordPress?
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tantek GWG ^^^
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@brianjesse @bengo @davewiner well i talked about NodeStorage at last week's #indieweb meetup in Portland and I confirmed that it's a fair depiction (twitter.com/_/status/577374182054367233)
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tantek now that's too abstract - not clear what is being depicted and what is fair
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tantek I'm making some progress on https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/83 - made first pull request to fix microformats examples in AS2 spec
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tantek https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/pull/84
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tantek KartikPrabhu: perhaps review? ^^^ (anyone else welcome to review and comment as well)
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Loqi [bridgy] MC Theme favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (https://twitter.com/bengo/status/577371945521410048)
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Loqi [bridgy] Brian Hendrickson replied '@bengo @davewiner well i talked about NodeStorage at last week's #indieweb meetup in Portland and I confirmed that it's a fair depiction' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (https://twitter.com/brianjesse/status/577374182054367233)
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bengo @tantek how does this draft influence your efforts wrt issue #83? http://jasnell.github.io/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/activitystreams2-vocabulary.html#extendedtypes
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KartikPrabhu tantek: ltgm
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tantek thanks KartikPrabhu
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tantek bengo starting with one draft first
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tantek and documenting the general patterns of fixes
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tantek hoping that by doing so, the editor can fix other examples in the same way
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tantek bengo, in practice no no-one publishes <link> inside <div>, nor href="urn:…" nonsense
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tantek bengo, if you have time to submit pull requests to fix the examples in activitystreams2-vocabulary.html per the patterns in https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/83#issue-60531070 that would be great!
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tantek feel free to cc: me on the pull request(s) and I can review also
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KartikPrabhu hmmm I was surprised by the hrn: thing too. nevr seen that
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KartikPrabhu s/hrn/urn
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Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: hmmm I was surprised by the urn: thing too. nevr seen that
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tantek KartikPrabhu: it's a bizarro hypothetical thing that for some reason shows up in W3C examples. No one uses them in practice on the web.
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KartikPrabhu Uniform Resource Navigator?
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tantek name
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KartikPrabhu aah ok
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tantek what is an urn?
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Loqi urn is used to store the ashes of cremated people https://indiewebcamp.com/urn
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KartikPrabhu lol
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bengo Livefyre uses URNs increasingly.
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bengo dont hate :)
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bengo They have useful properties
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tantek bengo - no they do not, because "useful" implies "use", which no one actually does on the web
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tantek what is Livefyre?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Livefyre" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Livefyre&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-16%2Fline%2F1426492895401
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bengo fwiw https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/pull/84#issuecomment-81479487
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bengo I'll try to at least look around and spot the patterns you're talking about. I agree that I've never seen a URN be the value of a <link> href like https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/pull/84/files#diff-67bcb8f7a6dfcefb5456db20c189cb5dL305
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tantek bengo - it bothers me that examples are created from hypothetical concepts rather than studying real world publishing examples. I don't know how to change that, from a cultural perspective.
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bengo Which are the hypothetical concepts?
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tantek bengo - thanks for the review!
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tantek bengo - exactly what you stated. use of URNs to refer to people, use of <link> inside <div> etc.
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tantek and more - use of <meta> inside <div>
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tantek especially for datetime information instead of the <time> element
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bengo what do you make of the fact that https://webfinger.net/ advocates for use of 'acct:' scheme URIs for people/profiles instead of URLs?
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bengo Yeah <meta> tag I've also never used
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tantek the acct: scheme got some implementation in Google's Social Graph API - until Google shut it down
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tantek along with their neglected webfinger support
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tantek so at least acct: is less theoretical
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bengo I've specced a few html encoding systems to use it.
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bengo in webmentions-ish use cases
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bengo This was a few years ago before I knew about webmentions
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tantek it does seem like acct: was a stepping stone sort of tech
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bengo <a vocab="http://schema.org" typeof="Person" rel="nofollow" resource="acct:a2eae1c3-00d1-4c31-b81e-f47a15e0985f@foxnewsprod.fyre.co" data-lf-handle="" data-lf-provider="livefyre" property="url" target="_blank" class="fyre-mention fyre-mention-livefyre">@<span property="name">Demswinin16</span></a>
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tantek bengo - I think you may have been out of the channel
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tantek what is Livefyre?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Livefyre" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Livefyre&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-16%2Fline%2F1426493772805
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bengo Amongst other things, a real-time comment system and social aggregation platform
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bengo (as a service)
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bengo http://answers.livefyre.com/
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tantek could you click on the link from Loqi and add that to a new page?
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bengo Yep
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tantek thanks much!
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bengo ha, I need some IndieAuth
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bengo I bought bengo.is today and will implement minimal indieauth this week :)
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tantek ooh nice URL!
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tantek setup a simple static HTML home page!
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bengo I know I know! Soon but it's late :)
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bengo Worst case at hombrew web camp in two weeks
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bengo I'll do it during quiet hour
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bengo (also got bengo.name
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bengo bengo.pub
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bengo bengo.email)
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tantek bengo: <title>Bengo's home page</title><a rel="me" href="https://twitter.com/bengo">@bengo</a>
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tantek ;)
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bengo gimme an hour
sanduhrs, KartikPrabhu, bengo, csarven, peacekeep3r, elf-pavlik, dariusdunlap, Sebastien-L, stream7, petermolnar, dns53, Garbee, tantek, nloadholtes and Erkan_Yilmaz joined the channel
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petermolnar good morning indieweb
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petermolnar WordPress users I have a question: I've put together a "reactions" (comments, likes, etc) importer which currently is one scheduled task per importer (which is per silo) for every potential post
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petermolnar since this will run sometimes for hours, I've broken it up into scheduled tasks as: x tasks per run, reschedules itself to run again in 10 seconds until all posts are finished the reschedules itself for next day
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petermolnar I was thinking that instead I could to one schedule per post, which would do all the silos for that post but that would result in thousands of scheduled tasks
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petermolnar is anyone aware of how good WP's schedule system, could it handle thousands of entries?
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bengo.is created /Livefyre (+778) "Create initial page" (view diff)
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atomicules.co.uk created /User:Atomicules.co.uk (+860) "Add user page" (view diff)
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Loqi [bridgy] Julien Grimal favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://twitter.com/pierreozoux/status/576358272636227584)
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GWG petermolnar: WP-Cron isn't 100% reliable.
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Acidnerd who's doing the WP indieweb post kinds plugin ?
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Acidnerd i'm having this : /wp-content/plugins/indieweb-post-kinds-master/iwt-config.php on line 18
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Acidnerd Warning: array_key_exists() expects parameter 2 to be array, boolean given in
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Acidnerd wondering if there is a quick fix
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GWG Acidnerd: I am.
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Acidnerd i'm lucky :)
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Acidnerd is it on my side or it's from the plugin ?
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GWG Acidnerd: What version are you using?
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petermolnar GWG I know that, but for example the fb importer I wrote was running for ~ 5 hours in the background and that might be a big aggressive :)
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Acidnerd sorry not good a debuging this
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Acidnerd latest, just installed like now
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Acidnerd GW : Version 1.2.2
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GWG Acidnerd: Go to the Post Kinds settings page and save it.
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Acidnerd wow that got worse
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GWG How so?
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Acidnerd Warning: array_key_exists() expects parameter 2 to be array, boolean given in /wp-content/plugins/indieweb-post-kinds-master/iwt-config.php on line 18
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Acidnerd Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /wp-content/plugins/indieweb-post-kinds-master/iwt-config.php:18) in /wp-includes/pluggable.php on line 1178
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Acidnerd this on a blank page
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GWG That's a new one on me.
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GWG Give me a second. I need to wipe my settings
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Acidnerd ow but now the error when back ot backend is gone actually
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Acidnerd let me save again, and see if i can reproduce it
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Acidnerd another
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Acidnerd when i activate syndication-links : Fatal error: Cannot redeclare syndication_scripts() (previously declared in /home/intoxvsinfo/intoxvs.info/wp-content/plugins/syndication-links/syndication-links.php:22) in /home/intoxvsinfo/intoxvs.info/wp-content/plugins/syndication-links-master/syndication-links.php on line 39
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GWG Well, that one is you having both the development and the production versions installed
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Acidnerd ups sorry
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GWG I can't reproduce the second error.
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Acidnerd but the production version said there was an update
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GWG Yes, but your error message says that you have syndication-links and syndication-links-master installed.
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GWG One would be the one from the WordPress repo.
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Acidnerd hmm good point
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Acidnerd cleaning now
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GWG The cannot modify header info one is one I haven't seen before. I just tried to get my test system to output that
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GWG Acidnerd: Working now?
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csarven "PDF has the shelf life of a banana" - https://twitter.com/csarven/status/577451226268360704
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@csarven #PDF has the shelf life of a banana. #LinkedData #OpenScience (twitter.com/_/status/577451226268360704)
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csarven Wow, I didn't realize that Loqi can do that.
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barnabywalters csarven: ha ha, that really triggered my metaphor extrapolation addiction — I immediately thought “so PDFs go bad quickly, but… help to ripen other formats left nearby?”
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csarven You must be an optimist! :)
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csarven I love that thought though.
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csarven If you are able to, would you mind replying to that status update with what you just said? I'd like to have a reference for it.
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barnabywalters sure! I should have done that to begin with really, rather than spamming the channel with my nonsense :)
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Acidnerd GW it's working
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Acidnerd but have issue with syndication links, keep saying it's not installed, when it is
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csarven barnabywalters Pefect nonsense sense.
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GWG Acidnerd: Try removing both versions and installing the WordPress.org repository version only.
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Acidnerd ok
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GWG Acidnerd: Keep me posted either way. Any feedback or suggestions you have on either.
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GWG Acidnerd: My goal is to keep improving it.
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Acidnerd of course
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Acidnerd it's my first try with wordpress
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Acidnerd my personal indie is using Known
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barnabywalters csarven: btw, if you need web references for anything said in this channel which there isn’t a better permalink for, each line is available in the logs marked up as h-entry, e.g. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-16/line/1426511329760
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GWG Acidnerd: Then you are perfect to provide feedback on how it is for a new person.
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Acidnerd so i will definitely get back to you once i start to feel confortable with all these new plugins
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Acidnerd well i got confused when I installed the indieweb bundle
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Acidnerd because when i clicked on the private repository plugins they sent me to github
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Acidnerd so i though ah ok i have to upload this manually
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Acidnerd but then saw, i could completely install this from the backend
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GWG Acidnerd: It will install it for you from Github.
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Acidnerd that's perfect
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Acidnerd but it wasnt self evident that it would do so
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GWG But I thought the new version that didn't point to the repo version went up...I'll have to talk to the uploader about that.
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Acidnerd hence i had master version with backend installed version that lead me to these errors
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Acidnerd now i have syndication links that still ask for an update, even though it's using 1.0.1
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Acidnerd it's the only remaining hick up
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Acidnerd i dismissed it
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Acidnerd no more errors and all seem to be ok
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csarven barnabywalters Thanks for the pointer/reminder. I probably knew the 'hentry' bit for the logs long ago, but can't recall now. Perhaps there was an hFeed even being converted to Atom. My memory doesn't serve me well.
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csarven notes that it was mfbot
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csarven Sorry, I'm mixing it up with #microformats logs
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tantek waves to barnabywalters
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barnabywalters greetings tantek!
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tantek wonders if anyone here can do a WordPress micropub demo for the Social Web WG f2f
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Acidnerd GW : do you how to setup the short link plugin to a subdomain ?
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Acidnerd If you have a custom domain you want to use for shortlinks, enter the address here.
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Acidnerd i'm wondering to what value i have to create my subdomain for this
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Acidnerd and if it is a A record or CNAME
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petermolnar Acidnerd
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petermolnar /* replace shortlink */
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petermolnar remove_action( 'wp_head', 'wp_shortlink_wp_head', 10, 0 );
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petermolnar add_action( 'wp_head', array(&$this, 'shortlink'));
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petermolnar function shortlink () {
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petermolnar echo '<link rel="shortlink" href="whatever" />'."\n";
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petermolnar }
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petermolnar s/array(&$this, 'shortlink')/'shortlink'/
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tantek what is a WordPress shortlink?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "WordPress shortlink" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=WordPress+shortlink&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-16%2Fline%2F1426513221983
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tantek petermolnar: could you perhaps stub that page ^^^ with the how to code you just pasted?
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Acidnerd petermolnar, replace where ?
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Acidnerd or put it on a pad : https://titanpad.com/WBcxu1sSKm
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tantek Acidnerd or on that wiki page from Loqi ^^^
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Acidnerd ow wow Loqi is fast
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Acidnerd i love how you use the bot & the wiki
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Acidnerd it's amazing, wish i could plug that on a WP
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GWG Acidnerd, you are trying hum?
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Acidnerd yes
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Acidnerd i wish i could have like short.mydomain.com
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GWG An A record will work
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Acidnerd but not sure how to setup the subdomain part
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Acidnerd to my IP?
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GWG But why a Subdomain? Is that shorter?
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Acidnerd ahh
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Acidnerd hmm so it means hum is going to shorten anyway using my root domain
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Acidnerd but that option would be used if i had like
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Acidnerd a very very short domain name & wanted to use it instead of my domain ?
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GWG Acidnerd, exactly
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Acidnerd so in short i dont need this
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Acidnerd lol
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GWG Not unless you want it
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Acidnerd i just want it to shorten url
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Acidnerd for now, i dont have the very short domain anyway
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GWG So leave it blank.
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Acidnerd ok
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Acidnerd my only remaining questionis
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GWG Yes?
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Acidnerd how to make sure my theme support microformats2
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Acidnerd and if there is a way to quickly implement it
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Acidnerd i'm using AVADA theme
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GWG You have a theme in mind?
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Acidnerd and my whole site is completely tied to it's use
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Acidnerd id rather implement microformat into avada, then getting ride of it, that theme is just wow
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GWG You can try the Wordpress uf2 plugin. But it is not perfect. It tries to do it without editing the theme.
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Acidnerd interesting
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GWG Otherwise you have to edit the theme.
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Acidnerd is it a bunch of functions to add or is it more complex ?
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GWG Well, for example, add h-entry wherever you see hentry
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GWG Most themes support the older standard
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Acidnerd i think avada support microformat but not the v2
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GWG Why not check your site using infiewebify.me?
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Acidnerd good point
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GWG Typo, excuse me
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Acidnerd No rel=me links could be found!
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Acidnerd yeah...this is not ready yet
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Acidnerd is this the one i have to install ?
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Acidnerd https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-uf2
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GWG Theme modification isn't that bad, but it is a pain
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GWG Acidnerd, yes. Mileage may Vary
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petermolnar.eu created /WordPress_shortlink (+908) "Created page with "== Replacing the build in WordPress Shortlink == remove_action( 'wp_head', 'wp_shortlink_wp_head', 10, 0 ); add_action( 'wp_head', 'replace_shortlink'); function rep..."" (view diff)
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Acidnerd do you know if theme modif works well if all modif are done in the child theme ?
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GWG Acidnerd, it can
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Acidnerd that's good point
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Acidnerd will try the plugin first, and if no luck will go the theme path
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@kylewm2 @brianjesse oh no :( that sounds bad, what happened? the #indieweb HWC meetups in particular are meant to be open-minded; not “Y sucks” (twitter.com/_/status/577479255073824768)
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tantek kylewm: indeed - that is very odd - we should try to understand what happened
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tantek the HWC meetups are all about encouraging and helping people own their own identity and content using whatever approach they want to try
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ben_thatmustbeme good morning #indiewebcamp
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tantek good morning ben_thatmustbeme!
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek, you ready for F2F tomorrow?
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tantek sorta
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tantek needs to do some more blog post writing on the flight
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ben_thatmustbeme are you already in town?
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tantek no - I fly out in a few hours
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ben_thatmustbeme well that answers that
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ben_thatmustbeme ahh
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Loqi [bridgy] KyleWm replied '@brianjesse oh no :( that sounds bad, what happened? the #indieweb HWC meetups in particular are meant to be open-minded; not “Y sucks”' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (https://twitter.com/kylewm2/status/577479255073824768)
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gregorlove.com edited /Livefyre (+41) "+dfn, see also" (view diff)
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gRegor` What is Livefyre?
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Loqi Livefyre is an Enterprise Social Web Platform used by hundreds of Publishers and Brands for commenting, chat, reviews, and social content marketing https://indiewebcamp.com/Livefyre
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gRegor` What is Enterprise?
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Loqi An enterprise is a large, interconnected business that is made of individual units or departments https://indiewebcamp.com/enterprise
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gregorlove.com edited /Livefyre (+22) "link" (view diff)
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bnvk-relay wat
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tantek relay says wat
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aaronpk hi bnvk!
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@kevinmarks "@mathewi: A note to media companies -- approximately no one is going to download your app: http://t.co/l4mb889YAE" #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/577504971945459712)
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: any idea what happened here: https://twitter.com/brianjesse/status/577374182054367233 ?
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@brianjesse @bengo @davewiner well i talked about NodeStorage at last week's #indieweb meetup in Portland and I confirmed that it's a fair depiction (twitter.com/_/status/577374182054367233)
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kylewm cc: bret tjgillies ^
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Loqi kylewm: tantek left you a message 2 days ago: MozSF confirmed for 2015-03-25 HWC SF, could you (benwerd, kylewm) create an indie event and FB POSSE copy and add them to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-03-25-homebrew-website-club#URLs ? Thanks! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-14/line/1426348501203
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kylewm on it
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tantek thanks kylewm!
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: no idea, I wasn't there
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KartikPrabhu aah ok
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KartikPrabhu I think in general people should be encouraged to use whatever they want on their own sites even if it is criticised
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tantek yes. we should encourage use and experimentation *and* documentation of criticism.
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tantek no need to be politically correct or absurdly offensensitive.
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gRegor` Heh, offensitive
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gRegor` Haven't heard that one before.
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tantek gRegor`: I believe Eric Meyer coined it
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tantek offensensitive or offensensitivity
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tantek web search left as an exercise to the reader ;)
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KartikPrabhu also people should realise that there will be conflicts and criticism in any community and should not take it too much to heart
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kylewm looks like Berke Breathed 1982
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kylewm :)
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bret ooof. I think it may be in relation to a joke about opml i made, ill reach out to brian today
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bret i need to remember not let my beef with winer affect others
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KartikPrabhu bret: it is fine to criticise but maybe add that they can use whatever they see fit on their own site, and so will you
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bret KartikPrabhu: i didnt tell anyone not to use anything
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KartikPrabhu bret: sure. but brian seems to have taken it that way
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KartikPrabhu I am no model of political correctness myself so...
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@gRegorLove @jdragz Post it on your own site first and syndicate it to Medium, though. :] #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/577511208229568512)
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@MissCarraway Working for you. @OfflineWebserie #indieweb #SupportIndieFilm #Webseries (twitter.com/_/status/577518807226454017)
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Loqi [mention] https://kylewm.com/2015/03/homebrew-website-club-2015-march-25 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-03-25-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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kylewm.com edited /events/2015-03-25-homebrew-website-club (+57) "/* URLs */" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /events/2015-03-25-homebrew-website-club (+41) "/* URLs */ add FB event for SF" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /events/2015-03-25-homebrew-website-club (+13) "/* RSVP */ add myself. would've been nice if I'd done all these edits at once" (view diff)
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tommorris.org edited /silo (+4) "/* Specialized Silos */ linking exercise" (view diff)
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tommorris.org edited /exercise (+337) "/* Silo Examples */ adding Fitbit" (view diff)
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/1565113317092307#10154060766865425 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-03-25-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/1565113317092307#752883204006 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-03-25-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/1565113317092307#10101508925747503 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-03-25-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/1565113317092307#10101508925782433 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-03-25-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi [bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/1565113317092307#10153539884612729 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-03-25-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi [bridgy] Kyle Mahan RSVPed yes to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-03-25-homebrew-website-club (https://www.facebook.com/1565113317092307#12802152)
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kylewm ah interesting, I need to handle the new e-content-less bridgy markup on https://kylewm.com/2015/03/homebrew-website-club-2015-march-25#replies
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shaners What is Monocle?
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Loqi shaners: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message on 3/15 at 6:44pm: I am trying to catch up on that conversation, but I also have alternate display for "checkin" vs "note-with-geotag" basically.... I add mp-type to all of my micropub clients, since its a micropub control part not something from the post, If you want to do vendor prefix i would say use mp-<vendor>-type http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-15/line/1426470271990
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Loqi Monocle is an open source IndieWeb-enabled reader developed by Aaron Parecki https://indiewebcamp.com/Monocle
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@t to MIT for @W3C Social Web WG, @IndieWebCamp! Let’s focus on live user-centric demos only, no architecture ... http://tantek.com/2015/075/t2/social-web-indiewebcamp-live-user-demos-only (twitter.com/_/status/577538655553593345)
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tantek what is architecture astronomy
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Loqi architecture astronomy is the practice of analyzing problems, seeing patterns, and then generalizing to higher and higher level abstractions on top of those patterns to the point where the abstractions become so general, so vague, so detached from the original problems being analyzed, that they don't mean anything at all https://indiewebcamp.com/architecture_astronomy
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tantek pats Loqi on the head.
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Loqi yeah!
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gRegor` kylewm: Same here. I haven't been using p-name at all in my display because I didn't understand mf2 as well when I set it up.
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GWG gRegor`: I still fear that I don't
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@kevinmarks RT @t: to MIT for @W3C Social Web WG, @IndieWebCamp! Let’s focus on live user-centric demos only, no architecture ... http://tantek.com/2015/075/t2/social-web-indiewebcamp-live-user-demos-only (twitter.com/_/status/577541746172633088)
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@Halley RT @t: to MIT for @W3C Social Web WG, @IndieWebCamp! Let’s focus on live user-centric demos only, no architecture ... http://tantek.com/2015/075/t2/social-web-indiewebcamp-live-user-demos-only (twitter.com/_/status/577542268766281729)
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GWG I usually move things from testing to live quickly, but I rarely write code on my site. Only tweaks
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GWG I have to decide what to work on.
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distresssignal.org edited /Nike+ (+481) "/* API */" (view diff)
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distresssignal.org edited /Nike+ (+139) "/* API */" (view diff)
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aaronpk pretty sure i can finish wiring up "likes" today on the plane
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@uskudarli RT @t: to MIT for @W3C Social Web WG, @IndieWebCamp! Let’s focus on live user-centric demos only, no architecture ... http://tantek.com/2015/075/t2/social-web-indiewebcamp-live-user-demos-only (twitter.com/_/status/577555264892719105)
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@kylewm2 This by @edsu http://inkdroid.org/journal/2015/03/12/javascript-and-archives/ is a thought-provoking response to @t’s article about js-rendering http://tantek.com/2015/069/t1/js-dr-javascript-required-dead #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/577559327688429569)
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@thierrymarianne RT @t: to MIT for @W3C Social Web WG, @IndieWebCamp! Let’s focus on live user-centric demos only, no architecture ... http://tantek.com/2015/075/t2/social-web-indiewebcamp-live-user-demos-only (twitter.com/_/status/577566722149978114)
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bengo Last night I got http://bengo.is served sufficiently enough for IndieAuth. My IndieMark is now infinesimely larger than 0! :)
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kylewm bengo++ that's great
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Loqi bengo has 3 karma
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kylewm looked like tantek nerd-sniped you into staying up late
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bengo :P
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bengo I didn't mind.
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bengo I spent too much time with DevOps playing with Google's Container Cloud
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bengo Eventually gave up, spun up one host, did an A record to it, shhed in and installed nginx, edited the default html file they give you.
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bengo Much room for improvement
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bengo But doing it that way took very little time
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kylewm nice, what's Google's Container Cloud?
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bengo https://cloud.google.com/container-engine/
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bengo Would let you write your indieserver in such a way that you could spin up one -> Nbillion servers with the push of a button
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bengo or better yet, elastic with demand
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gRegor` bengo++ for incremental steps.
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Loqi bengo has 4 karma
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kylewm huh, interesting is this a successor, competitor, neither to App Engine?
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bengo successor
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bengo given 'modern' cloud tech
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bengo But not necessarily apples->apples
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bengo App Engine is simpler, but more abstracted
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bengo I believe it's just a productized form of this open source project: http://kubernetes.io/
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gRegor` What is Google Container Engine?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Google Container Engine" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Google+Container+Engine&summary=prompted+by+gRegor%60+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-16%2Fline%2F1426538678696
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gRegor` Google Container Engine is https://cloud.google.com/container-engine/
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loqi.me created /Google_Container_Engine (+96) "prompted by gRegor` https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-16/line/1426538678696 and dfn added by gRegor`" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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gRegor` ^ That's still so cool.
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bengo Agree, hadn't seen that before
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gRegor` Recent addition to Loqi within the last couple weeks. I think there's about 10 minutes to define the term; won't overwrite existing pages.
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Loqi yeah!
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bengo Who develops Loqi?
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gRegor` aaronpk does
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bengo Nice
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gRegor` Who is your master, Loqi?
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gRegor` Who is Loqi?
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Loqi Loqi is a friendly and useful bot present in the #indiewebcamp IRC channel and other channels https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Loqi.me
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Loqi [bridgy] Benjamin Goering favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://twitter.com/pierreozoux/status/576358272636227584)
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fkooman !standards
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Loqi fkooman: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message on 3/15 at 6:32pm: yes I do, its on my list of things, actually, https://github.com/dissolve/postly/issues/6 http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-15/line/1426469578203
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Loqi http://xkcd.com/927/
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ben_thatmustbeme who is your father, loqi?
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ben_thatmustbeme hehe
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ben_thatmustbeme woah, didn't know loqi did that
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fkooman ben_thatmustbeme: but why did login break? was that because i didn't provide the "me" query parameter?
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ben_thatmustbeme yes
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ben_thatmustbeme since my implementation depends on that (as i don't store from the previous data)
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fkooman alright :)
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ben_thatmustbeme not that logging in to my site does much
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ben_thatmustbeme well, it does for /new
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ben_thatmustbeme but other spots are really for private messaging and additional contact info for friends
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fkooman ben_thatmustbeme: right, i was just interested for interop purposes :)
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fkooman none of the distributed indieauth sites seem to work with indiecert yet
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ben_thatmustbeme indiecert i believe was the self signed keys idea?
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ben_thatmustbeme i believe that was where there is no indiecert root certificate on the machine
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fkooman yes, exactly
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fkooman no diecert root certificate?
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fkooman s/diecert/indiecert/
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Loqi fkooman meant to say: no indiecert root certificate?
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ben_thatmustbeme And i'm not about to open up man in the middle attacks that way
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kylewm fkooman: did you try http://reader.kylewm.com?
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fkooman kylewm: you don't have https:// :(
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kylewm this is true, not on the subdomain
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ben_thatmustbeme wildcard ssl's are def more expensive
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bengo How do y'all recommend I get a cert for SSL for https?
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bengo Is self-signed too indie?
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kylewm bengo: it's not that it's too indie, it's that it's bad for UX :)
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gRegor` bengo: Several of us have used startssl
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gRegor` What is https?
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fkooman kylewm: also, if i accept the cert i get a different page from the non https page :(
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Loqi HTTPS is an abbreviation for Hypertext Transfer Protocol Secure, a protocol for secure communication, supported by web servers (like Apache & nginx) and browsers https://indiewebcamp.com/HTTPS
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kylewm bengo: a self-signed certificate for admin pages only is a good first step
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kylewm but it's not much more difficult to get a free cert from startssl
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kylewm fkooman: yeah... that's weird
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bengo @kylewm cool was just looking for a good recommendation like them
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fkooman i'm using namecheap.com, i got sick of startssl with the weird policy where you have to pay to revoke your cert :/
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kylewm.com edited /HTTPS (-65) "/* Level 3 security */ remove me from mixed-content warning" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /HTTPS (+45) "/* Level 4 security */" (view diff)
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kylewm is there an HTTP code for "HTTPS not supported?
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kylewm "
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fkooman connection refused ;)
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kylewm wtfnginx
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kylewm i made it "deny all" for ssl connections to reader.kylewm.com and it's returning 403 Forbidden
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kylewm hopefully that's good enough
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@AzzoutY RT @t: to MIT for @W3C Social Web WG, @IndieWebCamp! Let’s focus on live user-centric demos only, no architecture ... http://tantek.com/2015/075/t2/social-web-indiewebcamp-live-user-demos-only (twitter.com/_/status/577586889940692992)
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edrex pdurbin tjgillies RE pushing from your phone: I use http://prose.io for editing pages on github from a browser. works on android but it's not perfect. That's something I'd like to improve about it.
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kodomulo-relay kfooman: cloudflare gives you free SSL on all domains and sub domains with a free account
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kodomulo-relay you don't even have to configure webserver
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kodomulo-relay they hack it into the DNS layer
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kodomulo-relay how all my SSL is hosted now
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kodomulo-relay fkooman rather
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kodomulo-relay is dyslexic
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pdurbin edrex: prose scares me: https://github.com/prose/prose/issues/816
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edrex sorry, why? the oauth token is held in your browser. there's no serverside beyond a tiny gateway for the initial oauth handshake.
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pdurbin after which point the app has all the permissions you've granted it
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aaronpk yeah that is not good
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pdurbin "it's like the adroid flash light app that request access to your whole phone" -- http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-06/line/1425661178575
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aaronpk i don't care where the token is stored, the prose web app has access to it
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edrex ok i'm not going to get sucked into this
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pdurbin edrex: sucked into prose? ;)
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edrex sucked into an idealogical discussion about trust
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aaronpk it's more practical than ideological
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pdurbin I'm sure the prose folks are just trying to get their app to work, just like Mozilla Science: https://github.com/mozillascience/site/issues/11
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aaronpk it's actually more of a limitation with Github's OAuth scopes
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pdurbin aaronpk: exactly!
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pdurbin aaronpk: but! check out this comment by a githubber: https://github.com/mozillascience/site/issues/11#issuecomment-75589627
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aaronpk hmm, not sufficient
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aaronpk I need to be able to prevent access to specific orgs that I have access to
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Loqi [bridgy] Ben Werdmüller RSVPed maybe to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-03-25-homebrew-website-club (https://www.facebook.com/1565113317092307#10101051235173449)
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pdurbin aaronpk: I'm going to have to test it myself before I believe anything.
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pdurbin well, maybe that's too strong. if it's true what that githubber is saying, they "just" need to make their messaging less scary
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edrex yeah that's a gap in github's oauth support. i've been missing it too, as I add more github-connected apps
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edrex (the ability to opt some connected organizations out of an access grant)
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pdurbin I wrote a whole blog post about some of this stuff: http://crimsonfu.github.io/2015/02/22/owners-of-organizations-on-github-should-carefully-set-up-third-party-application-restrictions.html
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pdurbin bear believes me! :)
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bear sure id
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bear s/id/did/
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Loqi bear meant to say: sure did
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aaronpk the nice thing about indieauth is that since you control your own authorization server, you can make your own scopes as granular as you want
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pdurbin sounds nice
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pdurbin I mean, being able to use other auth is great. I'm working with SAML at work. It's good to cut down on the number of passwords you need.
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kylewm !tell fkooman you successfully guilted me into setting up https on https://reader.kylewm.com :)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm of course now websockets doesn't work...
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kylewm going to switch to server-sent events anyway and then hopefully it won't matter
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aaronpk oh yeah you have to have the websocket server use ssl too
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pwcc G'day indiewebcamp
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bear kylewm - wss://
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GWG Good evening.
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pwcc snarfed or kylewm: To save bridgy from crawling permalinks, I've got hidden a tags inside h-entrys on my notes index. Would replacing them with link tags work within the hentrys?
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KartikPrabhu pwcc: is the issue that since your notes index already shows full notes you don't bridgy to parse the permalink?
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KartikPrabhu s/don't/don't want
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Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: pwcc: is the issue that since your notes index already shows full notes you don't want bridgy to parse the permalink?
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kylewm pwcc: not yet, there is an open issue for this in mf2py https://github.com/tommorris/mf2py/issues/33
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kylewm hmm, websockets don't work even when using http -- http://reader.kylewm.com
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kylewm Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at ws://reader.kylewm.com:8077/.
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bear you have to offer both ws:// and wss://
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pwcc KartikPrabhu: Sort of, aiming to reduce work for bridgy. It's easy to do & seems polite. The logic may be flawed.
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KartikPrabhu wait so websocket has its own protocol prefix ?
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bear yes
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bear kylewm - your getting a mixed-content failure because https can only upgrade to wss
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kylewm bear: but even starting out with http://, it can't connect to ws:// anymore. with no https anywhere in the chain
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pwcc kylewm: thanks, figuring this stuff out afresh with the new theme :)
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KartikPrabhu sigh
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KartikPrabhu pwcc: yes nice idea.
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KartikPrabhu i wonder if there is a mf2 way to say that the permalink has more content
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bear kylewm - i'm seeing a mixed content warning even for http login